Author Topic: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY  (Read 57821 times)

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SmethDan

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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1301 on: May 23, 2020, 12:35:22 AM »
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11685910/english-football-fans-stadiums-october/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballtwitter&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1590178764


Looking to bring back crowds at 25% capacity by October. Better than nowt i suppose.

Struggling to see how the 'lucky' 25% get to experience a socially distanced and sterile atmosphere. Raffle? Home crowds of say 6,500 with presumably no away support and no social before or after games probably wouldn't do it for me I'm afraid. Think I'd prefer to stay at home with a few beers and follow the game via radio or tw@tter and keep the price of the match ticket in my bank account to be honest.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1302 on: May 23, 2020, 01:51:11 AM »
Struggling to see how the 'lucky' 25% get to experience a socially distanced and sterile atmosphere. Raffle? Home crowds of say 6,500 with presumably no away support and no social before or after games probably wouldn't do it for me I'm afraid. Think I'd prefer to stay at home with a few beers and follow the game via radio or tw@tter and keep the price of the match ticket in my bank account to be honest.

I've not read it (The S*n) but even the idea of it seems like pie in the sky.

Strangely enough John mentioned social distance attendees a week or so back and I shot him down. Would be amazed if this is even being genuinely considered as opposed to filler for Scum column inches.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1303 on: May 23, 2020, 01:55:50 AM »
I was thinking about reduced attendance and how it could be done and the best way to do it imo is to do it like the pollution measures in Paris where depending on your registration number being odd or even determined when you could drive your car in the city.

So we could say no away fans and surnames A-G go one week and so on and on. Everybody attending signs a liability waiver on entrance and must wear a mask. You'd have to have the waiver as you'd not get away with banning anyone like those over 70 with an underlying health condition.

Fans attending would sit with 2 seats between each other.

It's far from ideal, and but it would only be short hopefully and would be better than nothing.

SmethDan

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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1304 on: May 23, 2020, 02:02:32 AM »
I've not read it (The S*n)......

Neither have I to be honest, I just read the summation in Gaz's post. Couldn't be bothered with trying to flick through all the probable adds before coming to the conclusion it was speculative pick a number optimism/nonsense. Just as well we haven't built the second tier just yet, plenty of leg room in the Halfords for now.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1305 on: May 23, 2020, 02:11:19 AM »
........Fans attending would sit with 2 seats between each other.

It's far from ideal, and but it would only be short hopefully and would be better than nothing.

Might be worth a go as a one off but I doubt I'd be up for it as a regular, especially at full price on a game by game basis. Fans wouldn't need to sit down as it's highly unlikely they'd be blocking anyone's view. Not that anyone sits down near me and my lad anyway. Could potentially see myself turning away from live football pretty much completely until this is over, the social aspect is a huge part of my enjoyment nowadays.
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Standaman

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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1306 on: May 23, 2020, 04:56:35 AM »
I am sure the towering intellectuals at the s*n have observed the strange phenomena that happens at the end of a game of football. At the final whistle everyone wants to go home at the same time.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1307 on: May 23, 2020, 08:36:50 AM »
I was thinking about reduced attendance and how it could be done and the best way to do it imo is to do it like the pollution measures in Paris where depending on your registration number being odd or even determined when you could drive your car in the city.

So we could say no away fans and surnames A-G go one week and so on and on. Everybody attending signs a liability waiver on entrance and must wear a mask. You'd have to have the waiver as you'd not get away with banning anyone like those over 70 with an underlying health condition.

Fans attending would sit with 2 seats between each other.

It's far from ideal, and but it would only be short hopefully and would be better than nothing.

Wearing masks at football matches would certainly get rid of any atmosphere which could be created by the fans.  May as well just stick to games behind closed doors with cardboard cut outs on the terraces. it would create the same effect as fans wit masks on. 

Liability wavers are a waste of time. If its to stop fans taking the club to court  if they caught covid 19, the club wouldn't need a waiver because if you caught it you have got to prove you caught it at the Hawthorns.  That will be very expensive and probably impossible to prove !!

The alternating of fans at matches is feasible although not ideal. But as I saw an interview with a top scientist at a large company that is working on vaccines, they said a vaccine could be 3 years away because they have to do extensive trials and testing .  So if they insist on social distancing until a vaccine is developed this could be the only way forward.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1308 on: May 23, 2020, 08:54:32 AM »
Liability wavers are a waste of time. If its to stop fans taking the club to court  if they caught covid 19, the club wouldn't need a waiver because if you caught it you have got to prove you caught it at the Hawthorns.  That will be very expensive and probably impossible to prove !!

Liability waivers are a waste of time, because you cannot waive liability for injury in this country. Someone will almost certainly try and sue someone for catching it at some point, but it’ll probably be an employers liability case. It'll be A tough one to win, but they won’t have to ‘prove’ it, it’ll be on balance of probability.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1309 on: May 23, 2020, 08:59:12 AM »
Liability waivers are a waste of time, because you cannot waive liability for injury in this country. Someone will almost certainly try and sue someone for catching it at some point, but it’ll probably be an employers liability case. It'll be A tough one to win, but they won’t have to ‘prove’ it, it’ll be on balance of probability.

To win such a case they will have to prove it. As with any employers liability case the person taking them to court have to prove the company were liable. It  will also be very expensive for a normal person to bring a large organisation like WBA to court. Then there is also the prospect of losing and having to pay all the costs.  It could ruin someone financially overnight. Not worth the risk unless you have a cast iron case.

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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1310 on: May 23, 2020, 09:03:18 AM »
I was thinking about reduced attendance and how it could be done and the best way to do it imo is to do it like the pollution measures in Paris where depending on your registration number being odd or even determined when you could drive your car in the city.

So we could say no away fans and surnames A-G go one week and so on and on. Everybody attending signs a liability waiver on entrance and must wear a mask. You'd have to have the waiver as you'd not get away with banning anyone like those over 70 with an underlying health condition.

Fans attending would sit with 2 seats between each other.

It's far from ideal, and but it would only be short hopefully and would be better than nothing.
You made that sound like you would accept such discrimination. I belong to the over 70's group (with no underlying health conditions) who with BAME's  and people with underlying health conditions, have been marginalised by the media. This has contributed to many irresponsible people believing that if they are not encompassed within those groups, then they can behave outside of the Coronavirus guidelines as they are not at very great risk.
We are fortunate to support a club that would not engage in discriminating between groups of supporters. Incidentally we have 1800, Over 70's STH's and quite a number of ASTH's as well . I have been as season ticket holder since 1969, but if the conditions which you describe prevail, I will stay at home without anyone banning me.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 10:32:50 AM by MarkW »
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1311 on: May 23, 2020, 09:05:06 AM »
Struggling to see how the 'lucky' 25% get to experience a socially distanced and sterile atmosphere. Raffle? Home crowds of say 6,500 with presumably no away support and no social before or after games probably wouldn't do it for me I'm afraid. Think I'd prefer to stay at home with a few beers and follow the game via radio or tw@tter and keep the price of the match ticket in my bank account to be honest.

I think some people would actually go for it though Dan. Far from ideal but at least the option would be there.

Whether it was any good or not well yeah, I agree a while different matter altogether.

baggiejohn

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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1312 on: May 23, 2020, 09:08:16 AM »
I believe what JC means is :

Criminal cases require a beyond all reasonable doubt test

Civil cases require a balance of probability test

The prosecution would probably be on a neglect basis, & even then would only be possible following a successful prosecution  by H&SE.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1313 on: May 23, 2020, 09:31:49 AM »
You made that sound like you would accept such discrimination. I belong to the over 70's group (with no underlying health conditions) who with BAME's  and people with underlying health conditions, have been marginalised by the media. This has contributed to many irresponsible people believing that if they are not encompassed within those groups, then they can behave outside of the Coronavirus guidelines as they are not at very great risk.
We are fortunate to support a club that would not engage in discriminating between groups of supporters. Incidentally we have 1800, Over 70's STH's and quite a number of ASTH's as well . I have been as season ticket holder since 1969, but if the conditions which you describe prevail, I will stay at home without anyone banning me.

It's doable if you want it to be, there would have to be management systems in place to deal with the period before & after the game, at least up to the boundary of the stadium.

The management system for golf, is play is limited to two people playing together, only members can play, tee times have to be booked online & only 4 days in advance. Tee times are allocated on a first come first served basis, so some members are disappointed, but I don't know of any dissenters at our club.

It would be possible to do something similar for football using the STH base.
You could pay for a full season ST & then get a refund for matches you couldn't attend, or just pay on a match by match basis.

Think having away fans might be a risk too far, so it might also be possible to use the away section.

I believe most people have recognised that the virus is not going away anytime soon & for businesses to survive they have to come up with managed solutions
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1314 on: May 23, 2020, 09:34:58 AM »
Forget mortality risk it is irrelevant so whether someone is in an at risk group is neither here nor there. Forget liability too difficult to prove even if the club took virtually no mitigating measures.

However the stumbling block is and always will be risk of infection posed by crowds (even reduced ones). The secondary consideration is that big random crowds quickly overwhelm any effort to track trace and isolate infected people.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1315 on: May 23, 2020, 09:41:52 AM »
Struggling to see how the 'lucky' 25% get to experience a socially distanced and sterile atmosphere. Raffle? Home crowds of say 6,500 with presumably no away support and no social before or after games probably wouldn't do it for me I'm afraid. Think I'd prefer to stay at home with a few beers and follow the game via radio or tw@tter and keep the price of the match ticket in my bank account to be honest.

I’d rather socially distance in the pub to be honest than suffer that rubbish !
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1316 on: May 23, 2020, 09:44:10 AM »
https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/11685910/english-football-fans-stadiums-october/?utm_medium=Social&utm_campaign=sunfootballtwitter&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1590178764


Looking to bring back crowds at 25% capacity by October. Better than nowt i suppose.
😂😂😂😂
Just brilliant
What happens when the reduced number of 6000 people all need a jimmy riddle?
With 2 meter gap and those slow servers, the food counter will be interesting.
Just remember even with no away fans....Leeds will fill it 😀
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1317 on: May 23, 2020, 10:06:51 AM »
😂😂😂😂
Just brilliant
What happens when the reduced number of 6000 people all need a jimmy riddle?
With 2 meter gap and those slow servers, the food counter will be interesting.
Just remember even with no away fans....Leeds will fill it 😀

Best take your own food, drink and have a catheter inserted   :D :D :o
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1318 on: May 23, 2020, 10:14:48 AM »
I think allowing supporters back to stadiums, with controlled restrictions is certainly achievable.

I was chatting to one of our customers at work who is a Director at a non league club in the Midlands (below National League level) who generally get around 300 attending in a stadium that could hold around 1500 in normal conditions.

With most of the supporters regulars who have the interests of the club very much at heart, with good communications and common sense then it would clearly be feasible to allow supporters to attend (this is on the presumption that there is no spike in figures and that by the time the new season starts the country is further down the road to a return to normality).

Looking at some of our more local clubs, again with a little thought, planning and self discipline by the supporters, it’s hard to see why Kidderminster, Stourbridge and Halesowen should not allow supporters back.

Clearly it’s a lot more problematic with clubs who generally run with attendances in excess of 60%+ capacity in all seater stadiums but again not impossible.

Away support is likely to be on hold for a season at least so in our case that allows the whole of the Smethwick End to be opened up.

In addition a proportion of supporters attend with other members of their household so no issues with social distancing from that perspective.

So with some positive thinking, planning, clear communication and supporters buying into the concept and being prepared to stick to the guidelines set out for attending, it’s very much achievable in my view.

Of course it will take organisation, and being prepared to sit in seats allocated (not necessarily your usual seat or with your friends) and initially on a rota basis but hard to see why we can’t play with a few thousand in attendance for each home game.

In terms of food and drink, then all outlets should be closed and in terms of toilets, stewarding in place and in one entrance and out the other (so to speak).

Clearly not ideal but surely not impossible with around 7000 spread over 4 stands, and obviously having your usual 6 pints pre match may need to be put on hold!! 

I take the point that it will take a lot of hard work by the admin and ticket office staff but it’s not like we’re asking them to do the impossible and, not being disrespectful but they can’t really be rushed off their feet at present and it’s not rocket science, it’s simply allowing a proportion of our support who want to attend to do just that, and for those who prefer to wait until normality returns then that’s fine as well and a personal choice for those who feel that they may be vulnerable. 

Fingers crossed, presuming the new season starts a few months later than normal, restrictions may be considerably eased by then but acknowledge it’s a situation that can change for better or worse quite quickly.

I just feel that if we want the game to survive at all levels we need to take a “can do” proactive viewpoint. We've all seen the Bundesliga on TV, do we want that situation for possibly several months or a whole season?

All of the logistical issues from ticketing to other practicalities could be addressed with a positive forward thinking plan in my opinion. 

« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 10:20:45 AM by Brummie Road »

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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1319 on: May 23, 2020, 10:28:00 AM »
You made that sound like you would accept such discrimination. I belong to the over 70's group (with no underlying health conditions) who with BAME's  and people with underlying health conditions, have been marginalised by the media. This has contributed to many irresponsible people believing that if they are not encompassed within those groups, then they can behave outside of the Coronavirus guidelines as they are not at very great risk.
We are fortunate to support a club that would not engage in discriminating between groups of supporters. Incidentally we have 1800, Over 70's STH's and quite a number of ASTH's as well . I have been as season ticket holder since 1969, but if the conditions which you describe prevail, I will stay at home without anyone banning me.

I’m not sure restrictions placed on those over 70 with health conditions is discrimination. I hope fear of that allegation doesn’t stop the government considering those actions when they could be perfectly reasonable and help in the long term.

Clearly any measures will need to be carefully considered. 

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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1320 on: May 23, 2020, 10:55:50 AM »
You made that sound like you would accept such discrimination. I belong to the over 70's group (with no underlying health conditions) who with BAME's  and people with underlying health conditions, have been marginalised by the media. This has contributed to many irresponsible people believing that if they are not encompassed within those groups, then they can behave outside of the Coronavirus guidelines as they are not at very great risk.
We are fortunate to support a club that would not engage in discriminating between groups of supporters. Incidentally we have 1800, Over 70's STH's and quite a number of ASTH's as well . I have been as season ticket holder since 1969, but if the conditions which you describe prevail, I will stay at home without anyone banning me.

I didn't mean that at all, but if the government are telling the over 70's with health conditions to stay home any insurer selling us our occupiers liability would require some sort of waiver I presume before we'd get cover.

Personally, I don't believe in a nanny state so if you are over 70 and have underlying health conditions you are old enough to make your own decisions and I am certainly not going to dictate to you or anyone else what you can and cannot do as it's your life and your choice.

The point is what the Government is advising regarding over 70's is advice only and it s discrimination and the club could not do it even if they wanted because of potential civil actions and the general uproar.

Rotating attendance is far from ideal but after bojo said they haven't found a vaccine for that other coronavirus SARS after looking for one for 18 years who knows what is going to happen and we can only hope and pray that now more scientists are looking with greater urgency and more funding we will find one quickly.

And with concerns about going to toilet or getting a pie at games with rotating attendance I thought it would be obvious measures would he have to be in place for that too.

zippyandbungle

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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1321 on: May 23, 2020, 11:10:26 AM »
Best take your own food, drink and have a catheter inserted   :D :D :o
Faster,cheaper,cleaner

This could catch on
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1322 on: May 23, 2020, 11:19:33 AM »
I am sure the towering intellectuals at the s*n have observed the strange phenomena that happens at the end of a game of football. At the final whistle everyone wants to go home at the same time.
Except for those who want to leave early and/or catch a train  ;)
Imagine the furore from the unlucky rest if any of the 'lucky few' were to leave early?
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1323 on: May 23, 2020, 11:29:25 AM »
The Government asked all over 70's to stay at home for 12 weeks, irrespective of health conditions, and has not softened it's  position since.
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Re: Coronavirus Thread - Games postponed indefinitely - CLUB RELATED ONLY
« Reply #1324 on: May 23, 2020, 11:31:13 AM »
I think allowing supporters back to stadiums, with controlled restrictions is certainly achievable.

I was chatting to one of our customers at work who is a Director at a non league club in the Midlands (below National League level) who generally get around 300 attending in a stadium that could hold around 1500 in normal conditions.

With most of the supporters regulars who have the interests of the club very much at heart, with good communications and common sense then it would clearly be feasible to allow supporters to attend (this is on the presumption that there is no spike in figures and that by the time the new season starts the country is further down the road to a return to normality).

Looking at some of our more local clubs, again with a little thought, planning and self discipline by the supporters, it’s hard to see why Kidderminster, Stourbridge and Halesowen should not allow supporters back.

Clearly it’s a lot more problematic with clubs who generally run with attendances in excess of 60%+ capacity in all seater stadiums but again not impossible.

Away support is likely to be on hold for a season at least so in our case that allows the whole of the Smethwick End to be opened up.

In addition a proportion of supporters attend with other members of their household so no issues with social distancing from that perspective.

So with some positive thinking, planning, clear communication and supporters buying into the concept and being prepared to stick to the guidelines set out for attending, it’s very much achievable in my view.

Of course it will take organisation, and being prepared to sit in seats allocated (not necessarily your usual seat or with your friends) and initially on a rota basis but hard to see why we can’t play with a few thousand in attendance for each home game.

In terms of food and drink, then all outlets should be closed and in terms of toilets, stewarding in place and in one entrance and out the other (so to speak).

Clearly not ideal but surely not impossible with around 7000 spread over 4 stands, and obviously having your usual 6 pints pre match may need to be put on hold!! 

I take the point that it will take a lot of hard work by the admin and ticket office staff but it’s not like we’re asking them to do the impossible and, not being disrespectful but they can’t really be rushed off their feet at present and it’s not rocket science, it’s simply allowing a proportion of our support who want to attend to do just that, and for those who prefer to wait until normality returns then that’s fine as well and a personal choice for those who feel that they may be vulnerable. 

Fingers crossed, presuming the new season starts a few months later than normal, restrictions may be considerably eased by then but acknowledge it’s a situation that can change for better or worse quite quickly.

I just feel that if we want the game to survive at all levels we need to take a “can do” proactive viewpoint. We've all seen the Bundesliga on TV, do we want that situation for possibly several months or a whole season?

All of the logistical issues from ticketing to other practicalities could be addressed with a positive forward thinking plan in my opinion.

It wouldn't have to be hard work in my opinion from the ticket office or elsewhere after the guidelines have been put in place as to social distancing outside and inside the ground.

That may not even have to be 2 metres if Weatherspoons have their way and world health organisation guidelines are followed.

The club would announce in the local press and on our website which surnames (eg A to C) can go and those who wanted to go, go show their ID, sign their waiver and pay with contactless card on the way in, and social distance when buying a pie ( like you do in tesco) or waiting for the toilet and you'd be let out in the same way at the with each row leaving in turn.

Again this isn't ideal, but imo we need to try and get back to as much as a normal life as we can before our way of life and economy collopses, as staying at home is going to destroy this country long term.