Author Topic: 11 Jan 2020 Charlton Ath 2 Albion 2  (Read 13605 times)

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iwastherein68

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #225 on: January 11, 2020, 08:13:58 PM »
Left the ground very disappointed with the result, but sitting on the coach coming back and reflecting on what I saw, I would make these points. Zonal marking is killing us. If Grady is fit enough for the bench, then he should have started.I think that Bartley and Ajayi are losing confidence due to conceding goals through being forced to mark zones.If Grady starts with Periera , we build momentum from the start and frighten the life out of Charlton. Zohore did O.K and as I have always thought he is worthy of more opportunities.I have seen suggestions on the forums tonight that Pereira should be dropped.......if that happens will we ever win again? And I think I will leave it at that,goodnight
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #226 on: January 11, 2020, 08:39:54 PM »
It's a long season. We've been very up. We're currently very down.

Geez some of you guys turn on a sixpence. It's form and we will get it back.
Admittedly, hopefully, much sooner than later.
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baggie82

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #227 on: January 11, 2020, 09:32:14 PM »
It's a long season. We've been very up. We're currently very down.
If today marks our low point then I suspect we are going to be okay, as frustrating as the result was, we went back to the top of the league. We've not got the large lead over the pack we had, but we are 7 points clear with 19 games to play. Plus we have come out of the busy fixture period and barring West Ham recalling him have Diangana back. There is no reason why we can't beat Stoke next Monday and go on another decent run. As fans we need to avoid panicking. Form recently has included way too many draws but we've played 27 and lost 2!

Hong Kong Phooey

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #228 on: January 11, 2020, 10:00:23 PM »
Really disappointing result against a team we should have beaten three times this season...
But that is football...

We didn’t win (again) but are top of the league due to the failures of the other 23 teams we play (there is always someone worse off than yourself)...
But that is football

We should be many points ahead of the chasing pack...
But that is football

What gives me reassurance and keeps it all in perspective - is that Bilic is not happy - just like the rest of us - but Bilic can and will get us back on track again...
1: West Bromwich Albion (not a bad position to be in)...

In Slav we trust  8)

"I managed my country for six years and I said no matter which club I manage nothing will compare when you are the manager of your national team.

“I can't say it's the same but I feel as proud as I felt then.”

Slavan Bilic (West Brom, Croatia) 😎

baggies_24

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #229 on: January 11, 2020, 10:09:01 PM »
Just seen the highlights not much we can do about the first one a well worked corner from Charlton the second is an absolute disgrace, no one bothering to close close the guy down stopping the ball coming into the box and Johnstone looked like he was moving in slow motion, he has to get down quicker.

Worrying signs I think we have become complacent, players such as Livermore, Sawyers, Phillips, Pereira, Semi all know they are getting picked every week regardless of performance. I think we need to get some reinforcements to make players fight for their starting place on the team.

gazberg

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #230 on: January 11, 2020, 10:23:45 PM »
Agree. Everyone's levels have dropped and Bilic favourites know they won't get dropped. A few fresh bodies in gees everyone up. Keeps them on their toes as well as adding much needed strength in depth.

Wbamitch

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #231 on: January 11, 2020, 10:39:59 PM »
Agree with a lot of the points made on a few individual performances and concerns. Ajayi and Phillips perhaps fortunate to be picked almost every time and it’s the same old discussion with SJ again, that goal was very similar to the shocker he conceded at Blues, really rubbed salt into the wounds watching that one over and over on the big screen. I do not expect him to be replaced at any point, I support him but he is very fortunate.

Without going to in depth, aside from the defensive problems that have been touched on above today was all about wrong decisions attacking wise. There must have been 5 or 6 occasions where we were in great positions, so wasteful. More points dropped against teams down there and I really don’t think Charlton had much about them at all whereas you could maybe cling on to some inspired performances or teams in good form for other games. Another game goes by without conviction and of course the result. I’ll use that word fortunate again that Leeds lost and we are top but this will not last if our form remains the same.

Outside of the game discussion, really annoying to see the absolute idiots in the crowd (I feel I have put that in the nicest possible way) throwing the ball up the stand and wasting time very early and a bit later on when the game was never sealed and it would have been nice to allow the team to get on with it. The first equaliser was right after our minute delay which our own players even seem bothered and distracted by, really poor stuff from those involved. I’m pretty sure it was fighting between our fans after the game as well.

Rough day today.

zippyandbungle

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #232 on: January 11, 2020, 11:05:39 PM »
Not good

Firstly God has clearly put Charlton in the wrong place, he’ll hole and horrible to get out of

Keeper....5hite is the word everybody is looking for....woeful

Then we have a big problem, super Slav....aside from continually picking the keeper, he (and my assumption is it must be his instruction or he would have changed it) implemented zonal marking, uses two players to take a corner, does not leave a player up the pitch when we defend(ish) at corners allowing the opposition the luxury of overloading our box, has put people in who played well, took them out and generally farted around with personnel with no reasoning.

Something is just not right
Today I stood there watching the warm ups
Johnstone went missing down the tunnel a good 10 mins before the rest of the team...why?
Krov, Diangana and Pererira had a great game of keepy uppy....on their own
Brunt was setting up hegazi for shots at goal???.....how many times in a match will hegazi shoot from 30 yards ?
Al habsi had more practice than bond....but bond was on the bench?
During the match how many blasé shots from outside the box?
Why does Townsend only look competent in the second half of matches?

On top of all this, fate has given us the worst run of refs I have ever seen....WWE in font of him and he plays on , then when we ironically cheered him in the second half he waved

We need to sort it out and fast ...those saying we are top blah blah...I’m happy for you.....Liverpool are top do they look like 5hey are going to implode?

Keeper out
Zohore , considering his size , pulls out of challenges like a nine year old girl.....out
Townsend not good enough. ....out

Phillips, Livermore and Austen are borderline ....

Imo HRK has been nothing short of magnificent, furlong is mr consistent and the CB,s can be exposed due to nervousness
Sawyers looked better today , maybe try him with Harper ......or we go crazy and try 352 allowing Diangana , pereira and krov to play together ...

Just try something...please

« Last Edit: January 11, 2020, 11:31:43 PM by OldburyWBA »
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mulliganstired

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #233 on: January 11, 2020, 11:08:43 PM »
So much more complicated than Johnstone’s, Ajayi’s, Townsend’s fault etc.

Granted, the 3 players mentioned above were all absolutely abysmal today, and all played a hand in allowing Charlton to earn a point.

But the shape of the team is absolutely shocking at the moment. One attack today we had both full backs, Livermore, and all the attackers ahead of the ball as Charlton broke, which left just Sawyers, who can’t tackle at all, and the two centre backs at the back.

The gaps between midfield and defence are way too big and why can’t Robson Kanu just take a touch and lay the ball backwards to a midfielder?
The thing is, if we'd got the third the attack/defence imbalance would be forgotten.  But as the French commentator I got on Hesgoals said "encore une assiste maladroit" as the ball pinged away from their goal.

If we go up, we will have no chance playing like this with this personnel, well organised lower/mid table teams like Palace and Soton will walk through our soft centre.

caravanc58

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #234 on: January 12, 2020, 12:49:16 AM »
Next 2 league games both at home to 2 teams in the bottom four, great chance to get back on track with these fixtures. We need six points the chasing pack can smell blood.

Atomic

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #235 on: January 12, 2020, 01:05:24 AM »
First thing to say what a superb game of football, thoroughly entertaining.

A game we should win by two clear goals easily we end up drawing. 2-1 up and how many times did we find ourselves in good areas around their box with time space and only the backline to beat? Our final ball, final decision and final shot was absolutely atrocious. A little bit more quality in those areas and we would've been out of sight. Pereira the main culprit. First half he should square a simple ball to Zohore who would probably have provided a similar finish to in the cup last week. Second half he blazes over from thirty yards when he had people in far better positions to pass to. He wasn't the only player culpable but I expect better from someone of his quality. It was self indulgent football which wasn't for the benefit of the team and it cost us.

Defensively Ajayi was absolutely shocking all afternoon, Davison ran him ragged. Gave the ball away for their opener then lost the first header from the centre. Calamity twin Bartley doesn't mark Davison so we lose two consecutive headers. Both those guys are 6 foot 5. Ridiculous defending.

Second goal no-one marking at the far post Townsend (who some are wrongly persecuting, presumably because of their own prejudices, because he actually had a good game) left with two men even then Johnstone should save the header. Move resulted from a free kick again from an Ajayi error.

If I were in charge next week Bond would be in for Johnstone and Hegazi would be replacing one of the two centre halves. This can't go on if we want to up.

« Last Edit: January 12, 2020, 02:54:10 AM by Atomic »

paulosull

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #236 on: January 12, 2020, 10:39:15 AM »
Agree. Everyone's levels have dropped and Bilic favourites know they won't get dropped. A few fresh bodies in gees everyone up. Keeps them on their toes as well as adding much needed strength in depth.
that's one of our problems Bilic and his favourites, no matter what fringe player's do they can't seem to get a look in.

Nathan

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #237 on: January 12, 2020, 12:00:54 PM »
Left the ground very disappointed with the result, but sitting on the coach coming back and reflecting on what I saw, I would make these points. Zonal marking is killing us. If Grady is fit enough for the bench, then he should have started.due to I think that Bartley and Ajayi are losing confidence conceding goals through being forced to mark zones.If Grady starts with Periera , we build momentum from the start and frighten the life out of Charlton. Zohore did O.K and as I have always thought he is worthy of more opportunities.I have seen suggestions on the forums tonight that Pereira should be dropped.......if that happens will we ever win again? And I think I will leave it at that,goodnight

I think you've hit the nail on the head there, I said exactly the same to the chaps behind me on the coach on the way home. As well as the issue with zonal marking, they have also got the worry of having a keeper behind them who they know will not command his 6 yard box, let alone the penalty area. Zonal marking is all well and good with a confident keeper who will come to claim balls, without this we have to go man for man.

KN22

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #238 on: January 12, 2020, 12:18:36 PM »
Not good

Firstly God has clearly put Charlton in the wrong place, he’ll hole and horrible to get out of

Keeper....5hite is the word everybody is looking for....woeful

Then we have a big problem, super Slav....aside from continually picking the keeper, he (and my assumption is it must be his instruction or he would have changed it) implemented zonal marking, uses two players to take a corner, does not leave a player up the pitch when we defend(ish) at corners allowing the opposition the luxury of overloading our box, has put people in who played well, took them out and generally farted around with personnel with no reasoning.

Something is just not right
Today I stood there watching the warm ups
Johnstone went missing down the tunnel a good 10 mins before the rest of the team...why?
Krov, Diangana and Pererira had a great game of keepy uppy....on their own
Brunt was setting up hegazi for shots at goal???.....how many times in a match will hegazi shoot from 30 yards ?
Al habsi had more practice than bond....but bond was on the bench?
During the match how many blasé shots from outside the box?
Why does Townsend only look competent in the second half of matches?

On top of all this, fate has given us the worst run of refs I have ever seen....WWE in font of him and he plays on , then when we ironically cheered him in the second half he waved

We need to sort it out and fast ...those saying we are top blah blah...I’m happy for you.....Liverpool are top do they look like 5hey are going to implode?

Keeper out
Zohore , considering his size , pulls out of challenges like a nine year old girl.....out
Townsend not good enough. ....out

Phillips, Livermore and Austen are borderline ....

Imo HRK has been nothing short of magnificent, furlong is mr consistent and the CB,s can be exposed due to nervousness
Sawyers looked better today , maybe try him with Harper ......or we go crazy and try 352 allowing Diangana , pereira and krov to play together ...

Just try something...please

Other than an, in my view, serious over estimate of HRK capabilities I think this is an excellent post.

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #239 on: January 12, 2020, 02:52:24 PM »
Get rid of zonal marking, replace Johnstone, Townsend, Livermore and bring Hegazi back.

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #240 on: January 12, 2020, 05:14:27 PM »
Other than an, in my view, serious over estimate of HRK capabilities I think this is an excellent post.

I have to agree with him, Kanu has been very good last few months and was superb yesterday. He is far higher in my estimations than the heartless Zohore, the guy wouldn't look out of place in an Under 10's game. Wimp is probably the most acceptable way of describing him.

alex1

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #241 on: January 12, 2020, 11:19:55 PM »
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/01/12/charlton-2-2-albion-player-ratings/

Looking at some of his ratings, you'd wonder if Express & Star's Joseph Masi had watched the same match.

He has Townsend on 7, whereas I can hardly recall him delivering any accurate dangerous crosses from that side. That was one of our main problems. The lack of decent crosses from the left.

He has HRK on 8 and even more bizarre, MotM. Aside from his goal which was well taken, alot of moves broke down through him, and his inability to work the ball quickly in tight spaces. He seems to fall on the ball alot when he gets challenged. A bit like a rugby league player.

I don't think Livermore deserved a 7. I don't think any of his passes created chances.

On the other hand Phillips deserved more than 6, as he looked sharp working the ball in tight areas, and setting up a goal. 

Still, I suppose its all about opinions, as someone wrote the other day.   
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

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Re: Match Officials
« Reply #242 on: January 13, 2020, 11:54:16 AM »
was terrible i thought, had no control over the game.

Pratley was allowed to foul on and off the ball all game long without any punishment.

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Re: Match Officials
« Reply #243 on: January 13, 2020, 12:06:58 PM »
Yeah, it's been a pattern these last few games imo.  The opposition seem to be getting fouls for the slightest touch while we seem to get nothing when our players are clearly fouled.

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Re: Match Officials
« Reply #244 on: January 13, 2020, 06:18:10 PM »
I'd heard he was supposed to be a pretty decent ref' but not on that showing. How we had six players booked to their two is completely beyond me. Strange display as though his head wasn't really in it. Grasping a bit here perhaps but I wonder whether he's got loved ones anywhere near the bush fires back home in Australia.
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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #245 on: January 14, 2020, 01:40:54 PM »
Did not go to this game, but have read all the comments of those who did and most of them are unanimous, once again we have managed to chuck away 2 points, again 2 goals as a result of set pieces  have cost us dear, we cannot blame the mabnager for individual mistakes, we cannot blame the managers for players decision making during the game , but we can blame the manager for his tactics and game plans.
for months now we the fans , the coaching staff and more importantly the opposition management , have seen a hesitant goal keeper who does not command his 6 yard box when it comes to set pieces, a defence that employs a zonal marking system that the players are very uncomfortable with, and a set piece defence system that fetches all players back leaving no outfield player to relieve the pressure once the ball is cleared as a result it comes straight back.
all our opponants have done their homework on this , they pack the box and then wait for something to happen, and match after match recently it has, as far as I am concerned the main reason we are not out of sight of the rest of the teams  in that division , is the zonal marking system which clearly does not work for the team  and that as far as I am concerned is down to SB, obviously you have to have a system whether in defence or attack, but you have to have the players to suit the system, clearly we have not , so the sooner we get back to man marking and getting a couple of players upfield for opposition set pieces to give ourselves an outlet and also reduce the crowded penalty area the better , because this zonal marking system is killing us

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #246 on: January 16, 2020, 03:16:41 PM »
Did not go to this game, but have read all the comments of those who did and most of them are unanimous, once again we have managed to chuck away 2 points, again 2 goals as a result of set pieces  have cost us dear, we cannot blame the mabnager for individual mistakes, we cannot blame the managers for players decision making during the game , but we can blame the manager for his tactics and game plans.
for months now we the fans , the coaching staff and more importantly the opposition management , have seen a hesitant goal keeper who does not command his 6 yard box when it comes to set pieces, a defence that employs a zonal marking system that the players are very uncomfortable with, and a set piece defence system that fetches all players back leaving no outfield player to relieve the pressure once the ball is cleared as a result it comes straight back.
all our opponants have done their homework on this , they pack the box and then wait for something to happen, and match after match recently it has, as far as I am concerned the main reason we are not out of sight of the rest of the teams  in that division , is the zonal marking system which clearly does not work for the team  and that as far as I am concerned is down to SB, obviously you have to have a system whether in defence or attack, but you have to have the players to suit the system, clearly we have not , so the sooner we get back to man marking and getting a couple of players upfield for opposition set pieces to give ourselves an outlet and also reduce the crowded penalty area the better , because this zonal marking system is killing us

I agree with all of that AND if we switch now it won't half screw up the oppositions plans as they will be working all their tactics out based on the above, I doubt players on the pitch will reorganise quickly enough for us not to take advantage,  Flexibility is your friend!!!
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