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Author Topic: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??  (Read 1648 times)

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Offline Maresca Was A Baggie

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Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« on: August 26, 2019, 03:11:14 PM »
So Bolton are only a few days away from potentially being put into liquidation. Bury are on the brink. I've been worried for some time that the greed league would eventually have a knock on effect. Clubs have stretched themselves too far. There's little money at the lower end of the leagues. I fear that once they start to fold, we will see the end of professional football in Leagues 1 & 2. Its all very well the Premier clubs grabbing heaps of dough, at the expense of everyone else, but it WILL have a knock on effect. That time could be just around the corner.

Offline OldburyWBA

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2019, 04:35:49 PM »
Seems to happen in other countries as well with clubs suffering financial problems.

Sooner these so called big clubs clear off and form their own European leagues the better, the rest of us will be on a more equal footing.
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Offline Standaman

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2019, 05:43:29 PM »
I am not entirely sanguine about the bigger clubs sailing off into the sunset of a European Super League because once they do they are free to strip mine the games resources to an even greater extent than they already have. While clubs are anchored to their National Leagues there is some connection and some sort of obligation to the greater community even if the trickle down impact is pitiful in many instances.

The Premier League solidarity payments while not particularly generous are roughly £4m a year for Championship clubs and as such represent roughly 25% of the average Championship club's income (excluding those currently enjoying parachute payments).

I am not sure whether Bury and Bolton represent the beginning of a trend but it seems that the game is running out of begin millionaires to prop up lower league clubs in the vane hope of boarding the Premier League gravy train.


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Offline Norfolk Baggie

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2019, 08:52:48 PM »
Over the last forty years a number of league clubs have come close to failure, but very few have actually failed.  Maidstone is the only one I know of which was in the football league and failed in the last twenty years.  Prior to that Accrington Stanley (who came back to life eventually), and Bradford Park Avenue (also now back in some form.  Most clubs go to the brink and then back.  However,  normal business rules apply to football clubs as they do to any other business.  Rack up massive debts which your cashflow cannot cover the interest on, and you will go bust.  In recent years, clubs such as Leeds appear to have played fast and loose with insolvency rules and still managed to stay intact.  Partially this is because no business, or HMRC wishes to be responsible for taking down a club with social importance in its own area  However, patience is waring thin, and at some stage it is likely that a club will disappear with no buyer being found.

Offline zippyandbungle

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2019, 09:50:12 PM »
Seems to happen in other countries as well with clubs suffering financial problems.

Sooner these so called big clubs clear off and form their own European leagues the better, the rest of us will be on a more equal footing.
Wasn’t that long ago Bolton were a resident of said greed league
Where’s the fathead dingle Sam now...not heard a whimper
Where’s jay jay okocha and Campo throwing some money back?

It may sound cruel but if they fold it won’t bother me, nobody else but 5hemselves to blame
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

Offline Norfolk Baggie

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2019, 12:37:57 PM »
Wasn’t that long ago Bolton were a resident of said greed league
Where’s the fathead dingle Sam now...not heard a whimper
Where’s jay jay okocha and Campo throwing some money back?

It may sound cruel but if they fold it won’t bother me, nobody else but 5hemselves to blame

Disagree.  Football clubs are a massive community asset, and closing down the likes of Bolton or Bury will be a loss as big as ours would be if the Albion were to close.... and that would be awful. 

Offline wbastrollers

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #6 on: August 27, 2019, 01:08:30 PM »
Disagree.  Football clubs are a massive community asset, and closing down the likes of Bolton or Bury will be a loss as big as ours would be if the Albion were to close.... and that would be awful.

Tend to agree with the essence of your post, however, we really can’t have badly run clubs subsidised by a loyal community or asset stripping vultures.
The Football league have to be more diligent with their ‘due diligence’

I dread to think the consequences of the Premier league finances collapsing!? mind I’ve been suggesting this scenario for sometime and the PL band wagon rolls on.

Offline LiamTheBaggie

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2019, 04:56:28 PM »
The idea that the football league cannot intervene in such matters is scandalous. For instance, Steve Dale was not approved to run the club yet today finds himself liquidating another business. When an owner comes into a club and relies on high mortgage loans with unrealistic repay back terms purely to ensure his fellow business, in administration survives, then I’m afraid the league have to step in.

A sad day that two football clubs will no longer be serving and providing great sense of enjoyment, hope and belonging to their communities
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Offline Baggies

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #8 on: August 28, 2019, 07:36:16 AM »
I do think that this could become a trend if the EFL, Premier league and the FA don't step in.

It has been quoted a few times that Bury are the first since Maidstone in 92 to go under, but that is a bit of a misleading fact. There have been a few clubs who managed to hold on just long enough to survive until they were relegated to non league before going bust. Darlington, Scarborough, Hereford are all examples, and when you look at those clubs (particularly Scarborough and Darlington), the phoenix clubs are a shadow of who they were.

Others like Stockport County have plummeted from the brink of the premier league to the 6th tier, a level littered with ex league clubs.

The latest thing to watch out for is clubs who sell their stadium to their owners to fund a short term tilt at promotion to the premier league. Villa, Reading, Sheff Wed and Derby are known to have done this already but they aren't the only ones. Fans are happy because they think their clubs are showing ambition but this is just another huge risk that could see one of these giants suffer in the same way Bolton are now.
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Offline Norfolk Baggie

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #9 on: August 28, 2019, 11:45:50 AM »
Tend to agree with the essence of your post, however, we really can’t have badly run clubs subsidised by a loyal community or asset stripping vultures.
The Football league have to be more diligent with their ‘due diligence’

I dread to think the consequences of the Premier league finances collapsing!? mind I’ve been suggesting this scenario for sometime and the PL band wagon rolls on.

Agreed, I think here that where a club goes bankrupt, a group of fans should have the option of purchasing the club at minimal cost and free of debt- This is possible with the right legislation and could be reinforced by local councils refusing any change of permission so the ground could not have housing built on it. A very sad day for football.  There have been times when I thought we might head in the same direction.

Offline FallOutBoy

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #10 on: August 28, 2019, 12:52:32 PM »
I have heard suggestions that because Bury and Bolton still owe debts to other football clubs, from the Championship through to League 2, that there could be as many as 12 clubs go into administration or worse if they both go.

It's not just direct debts though, it's lack of matchday income too. Crucial for smaller clubs, and they could end up with 2/23 less.

If Bolton go - and that's still a big if - then I think we'll see a chain reaction through the leagues.

Offline Albionic

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #11 on: August 28, 2019, 02:20:35 PM »
Agreed, I think here that where a club goes bankrupt, a group of fans should have the option of purchasing the club at minimal cost and free of debt- This is possible with the right legislation and could be reinforced by local councils refusing any change of permission so the ground could not have housing built on it. A very sad day for football.  There have been times when I thought we might head in the same direction.

I really thought the dings would go, back in the days of the Bhatti bros, sadly we baled them out and now the worm has truly turned :-( >:(
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Offline east-stand-nick

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2019, 09:19:38 PM »
I really thought the dings would go, back in the days of the Bhatti bros, sadly we baled them out and now the worm has truly turned :-( >:(

I wouldn't want even Wolves or Villa to completely disappear. What would football be without local rivals?

Offline Albionic

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2019, 09:27:17 PM »
I wouldn't want even Wolves or Villa to completely disappear. What would football be without local rivals?

Maybe, but seeing them consigned to the Isthmian league (or the current equivalent) for a few years would have been very sweet IMO
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Offline ComebackStrodds

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #14 on: August 28, 2019, 11:03:44 PM »
Seeing them go down twice was good enough at the time

Offline Maresca Was A Baggie

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #15 on: August 29, 2019, 10:20:23 AM »
Maybe, but seeing them consigned to the Isthmian league (or the current equivalent) for a few years would have been very sweet IMO

Isthmian League - Crikey, you must be as old as me  :o

Offline Albionic

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #16 on: August 29, 2019, 01:23:23 PM »
Isthmian League - Crikey, you must be as old as me  :o
Older I'd wager!
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Offline SmethDan

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #17 on: August 29, 2019, 02:44:55 PM »
I wouldn't want even Wolves or Villa to completely disappear. What would football be without local rivals?

It's always healthy to ponder and reflect on questions such as yours. Having given this a nano second of thought longer than strictly necessary, I believe I could function perfectly well without either of them. Thank you for asking though  8) .
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

Offline Albionic

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2019, 04:07:52 PM »
I wouldn't want even Wolves or Villa to completely disappear. What would football be without local rivals?

to get the answer to your question, you would have to find a Stoke fan !
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Offline costa blanca baggie

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2019, 05:54:38 PM »
How does a pack of cards falling cause much of a problem?😉
Humanity is a parade of fools, and I’m at the front of it...twirling the baton.

Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2019, 09:51:35 PM »
How does a pack of cards falling cause much of a problem?😉


Despite the winky... if a bottom layer of a pyramid of cards subsides, everything above it comes down too.
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Offline costa blanca baggie

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2019, 10:08:18 PM »

Despite the winky... if a bottom layer of a pyramid of cards subsides, everything above it comes down too.
That’ll be a house of cards then. ☺️
Humanity is a parade of fools, and I’m at the front of it...twirling the baton.

Offline zippyandbungle

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2019, 10:31:24 PM »
I wouldn't want even Wolves or Villa to completely disappear. What would football be without local rivals?
Villa in a heartbeat
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: Are The Pack of Cards About to Fall??
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2019, 11:57:38 PM »
That’ll be a house of cards then. ☺️


The beauty of a metaphor...
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