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Offline Maresca Was A Baggie

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Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« on: August 22, 2019, 08:29:56 AM »
I have to say for all the good football we are playing, I am concerned about where the goals are going to come from if we are to challenge for promotion. I just cant see where we will score goals?? Austin will no doubt chip in with a few, but other than that where are the other guys that will bring the necessary goal tally we will need? The 'attacking 3' aren't natural goal scorers. If the fullbacks get forward then the 2 wide men from the '3'3 need to get in the box more often, in order to pose a threat. We are really good to watch, but in the last 3rd I dont feel we offer enough of a threat in the box.? Or am I being paranoid?

Offline MarkW

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2019, 08:32:49 AM »
We've had a high squad turnover and brought in a fair few players towards the end of the window - they need time to gel.

You are right, I think we are a striker short, but I will only judge once the likes of Peirera are fully fit and starting games, which might be 10 games in. Of we're still within touch distance of the automatics after that then I don't think we should be worried. Even if we're outside the playoffs I don't think alarm bells need to ring just yet.
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Offline Mister AT

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2019, 08:33:00 AM »
I have to say for all the good football we are playing, I am concerned about where the goals are going to come from if we are to challenge for promotion. I just cant see where we will score goals?? Austin will no doubt chip in with a few, but other than that where are the other guys that will bring the necessary goal tally we will need? The 'attacking 3' aren't natural goal scorers. If the fullbacks get forward then the 2 wide men from the '3'3 need to get in the box more often, in order to pose a threat. We are really good to watch, but in the last 3rd I dont feel we offer enough of a threat in the box.? Or am I being paranoid?

We were spoilt last year with Gayle and Rodriguez both hitting over 20 goals. If you look at our goals last year we relied on them a lot, with the next top scorer being Barnes on 9 and when you factor in he wasn't even with us from January, shows you how far behind the next scorer was.

This season we need the wingers and other players to be chipping in, Diangana/Periera/Phillips all need to be near the 10 goal mark, Austin/Zohore if they can get over 10-15 each, then if Krov, Edwards etc all chip in with 5-8 goals.
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Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2019, 08:34:36 AM »
I think the concerns are valid, but I do still feel it is too early to hit the panic button. We are playing particularly good football currently, and the new players we have signed are primarily our attacking players so they need to get used to each others strengths yet and develop that understanding which I think will come sooner rather than later. You saw with some of the link up play late on, we will create chances and I fancy Austin and Zohore to both start to find their feet in front of goal.

Offline Mister AT

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2019, 08:47:51 AM »
I think the concerns are valid, but I do still feel it is too early to hit the panic button. We are playing particularly good football currently, and the new players we have signed are primarily our attacking players so they need to get used to each others strengths yet and develop that understanding which I think will come sooner rather than later. You saw with some of the link up play late on, we will create chances and I fancy Austin and Zohore to both start to find their feet in front of goal.

Think we saw that in flashes last night with Periera and Krov linking up well.

Krov and Sawyers seem to flow quite smoothly too, give it another 5-10 games and I think they all be on the same wave length.

The signs are there for us to become a good team, its just a bit rusty at the moment.
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Offline FallOutBoy

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2019, 08:56:40 AM »
We've had a high squad turnover and brought in a fair few players towards the end of the window - they need time to gel.

You are right, I think we are a striker short, but I will only judge once the likes of Peirera are fully fit and starting games, which might be 10 games in. Of we're still within touch distance of the automatics after that then I don't think we should be worried. Even if we're outside the playoffs I don't think alarm bells need to ring just yet.

Exactly this.

You can't expect a group of players to go through so many changes - personnel, tactics, etc - and come flying out the blocks. We're 4 games in, unbeaten in the league, and haven't hit form yet really.

I still think that when it all clicks we're going to give somebody a proper shoeing.

Offline skyclad99

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2019, 09:18:08 AM »
Exactly this.

You can't expect a group of players to go through so many changes - personnel, tactics, etc - and come flying out the blocks. We're 4 games in, unbeaten in the league, and haven't hit form yet really.

I still think that when it all clicks we're going to give somebody a proper shoeing.

Spot on FallOut

Most are identifying the need for another striker which I think is right. I keep thinking about a post a few weeks ago where someone was supposed to have spoken to HRK at the training ground. He gave an update on 5 players and all were absolutely spot on with the exception of Gayle, who was apparently on his way but appears to have done a U turn as he wanted a permanant deal. So I suspect that this is the one part of the rebuild plan that went south and will be addressed [if required] in January.

I prematurley thought we would be handing out a shoeing last night, but fair play to Reading, after the initial onslaught they played well.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2019, 09:21:51 AM by skyclad99 »
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Offline BoingFlyer

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2019, 09:27:51 AM »
Same rules apply, wait 10 games and see where things sit with regards to the Manager style, player ability and where we sit in the table. My only concern so far is none of the strikers we have gained are an improvement on what we have lost but I will reserve judgement for 10 games before it becomes an opinion.
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Offline boinging_along

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2019, 09:37:36 AM »
Too early to worry at the moment.  A lot of new players came in at the last minute and they'll take a while to get up to speed.  Will feel happier once Hegazi is back.  It's just not quite happening in the final third at the moment but that'll come.  Would be a bit more confident if we had another striker.

Offline tuamigos

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2019, 09:45:41 AM »
Concerned, but we have to give it time.
Anything can happen in this league.
At Christmas last year villa were closer to the bottom of the table than the to p and we all know how that turned out.
We look accomplished in midfield without actually creating many clear cut chances.
We've seen Millwall and Reading come to the Hawthorns and put 11 men in the box at every free kick and corner, away from home we look more threatening.
Maybe we just get what we can at home and go for the jugular away from home.
8 points from 4 games, unbeaten in the league, that's a top 3 finish form
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Offline Mister AT

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2019, 09:46:42 AM »
Exactly this.

You can't expect a group of players to go through so many changes - personnel, tactics, etc - and come flying out the blocks. We're 4 games in, unbeaten in the league, and haven't hit form yet really.

I still think that when it all clicks we're going to give somebody a proper shoeing.

I think we will do it this weekend against Derby.

Can see they pressing us and trying to take the game to us, leaving us some space on the counter.

We will look a better team away from home when teams try to attack us.

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Offline Baggy nerd

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2019, 10:09:15 AM »
I can see Fulham and Leeds going clear in the top 2 positions with the quality they have. I think we have enough to be amongst the challengers for the play-offs, but you are right that we would need another top quality striker to go for top 2.

Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2019, 10:11:12 AM »
Given our starting position in the summer, we are making good and steady progress in all areas.

We haven't set the world alight, as some would like, but nor have we flattered to deceive, it's been steady and sustainable improvement. And it's much what I expected to be honest, it's a marathon and not a sprint. The starting flag has only just dropped, there is lots of early jockeying and movement in the field for leading places, but leaders will come and go, but pedigree will not be denied, metaphorically speaking.
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Offline seteefeet

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2019, 10:28:04 AM »
We have to be concerned having lost 40+ goals from last year but we don't need to score as many as we did last year, only Norwich scored more after all. What we do need to do is keep more clean sheets! If we do then 1 or 2 goals per game will be enough. Problem is, at the minute, we always look likely to concede. We are poor from set pieces and shots from outside the box and, until we address this, the forward players will be under pressure to emulate Gayle and J-Rod, which they just don't look capable of doing.
Last night's goal was totally preventable, any one of three players could have closed him down but didn't, leaving Johnstone with little chance. That being said, Johnstone's complete lack of reaction is worrying, he literally didn't even flinch! Surely, instinct should kick in as soon as you see the ball coming towards you and inspire some sort of reaction? If Tony Godden had been sitting in the Smethwick, he would have still got closer to that shot than Johnstone did! That's why he's getting stick, not because he was to blame for the goal but him stood watching the ball hit the net, from distance, is all too common.
All of our defenders, Ferguson, Furlong, Ajayi, Gibbs, Townsend and even Bartley have received plaudits this season, and rightly so, so why is it not working as a unit and manifesting in clean sheets?
We have great attacking players, who are pretty on the eye, but they won't score 2 every game, so we have to tighten up at the back. If we can do that, i think we will have a very good season.
Maybe Hegazi is the answer but I hope not, because I think the current crop are good enough, they just need to find a bit of composure and confidence.

Offline smethwickw

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2019, 10:48:35 AM »
Early days still but I agree we do look a little bit light up front. Lets hope we can keep in touch until January and make the necessary signings to see us over the line. A goalscorer and new keeper a must for me.

Offline divinewind

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2019, 11:12:33 AM »
A new manager, basically a new team and new playing position.
On the plus side we are unbeaten in the league and in a play off position.
When Giles took over in the summer of 1975 we were bottom of the old second division at the end of September and put out of the League cup at home by Brighton who were a third division side.
That team got promoted but only scored about 51 goals.
We need to tighten our defence and with the creative players we have i am sure the goals will come.
I did say at the start of the season that it might take Bilic two seasons and we should have patience until we gel.

Online frazzle

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2019, 12:11:20 PM »
JRod and Gayle had great movement and Gayle has pace to stretch the back four. We don’t have that same quality now which is a problem. Watching the game last night I felt like Gayle would have made the difference you could imagine him peeling out wide,allowing our wingers to cut in, or being in the right place in a crowded box. He’s have definitely won us a penalty last night!

To be fair though Zohore is getting fitter and better with every game and I’m sure Austin will too.

For what it’s worth I’d start Zohore in the next game.

Offline divinewind

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2019, 12:32:32 PM »
I don't think Austin had any pre season games did he? If so he isn't up to pace yet.

Offline alex1

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2019, 12:43:13 PM »
When we lost both Gayle and JRod, I think alot of us saw it coming that scoring goals could be a problem, and finding those replacements is always easier said than done.

However, Austin has given us a boost up top as he is an instinctive goal poacher, who goes for it rather than  standing waiting for the ball to find him, and he looks like he is still up for it. I'm still not sure about Zohore, but hopefully his last 2 performances and the goal will boost his confidence, and he may develop into a worthy teamplayer.

But, as someone else wrote, we have alot of good wide players, but there needs to be others coming thro the middle with a good finish in them. Krovinovic is probably the most obvious one, but there needs to be other regular scorers. It looks like Billic has encouraged them to shoot on sight more, but then they really need to train on their shot accuracy.
Don't forget also, we have lost Dawson and McCauley who both used to score several from set pieces. 
Maybe we just have to get by with less goals than last season, but as Billic said, with the way we are controlling large parts of games, we should be converting that dominance into more goals. 
 
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Offline KN22

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2019, 12:45:53 PM »
I have to say for all the good football we are playing, I am concerned about where the goals are going to come from if we are to challenge for promotion. I just cant see where we will score goals?? Austin will no doubt chip in with a few, but other than that where are the other guys that will bring the necessary goal tally we will need? The 'attacking 3' aren't natural goal scorers. If the fullbacks get forward then the 2 wide men from the '3'3 need to get in the box more often, in order to pose a threat. We are really good to watch, but in the last 3rd I dont feel we offer enough of a threat in the box.? Or am I being paranoid?

I almost feel like a traitor to criticise and be concerned but I do agree with you wholeheartedly. Slav has filled the team with footballers, hence my hesitation to criticise but something is definitely lacking and I cannot put my finger on it. Even though the midfield is much more creative than we have seen in 10 years or so, do we still lack that box to box, driving midfielder? Filip is a very talented player but is he too lightweight? Strikers will get better as others have said. It is early days and we are very good to watch, and that is something for sure. 

Offline elkiellis

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2019, 02:03:48 AM »
I am more so ,reasons why.
Derby,play our style open and passing,but create more chances than us.
Millwall and Reading we cant open up ala every team bar about 3 that will come to the Hawthorns.
So who are we going to beat,problem areas for me are set piece defending,defensive midfielders not closing down and no cutting edge in the final third and the attacking build up to overplayed.
Don't get me wrong we are lovely to watch at times,but unless we improve on all the above we are midtable at best.

Online wbarenno

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2019, 08:02:26 AM »
I’m not concerned yet , I think the end product will come the longer this teams together and when the best side is being played regularly. I don’t think Bilic knows his best side yet . Plus we’re only 2 points behind we’re I’d want us to be

Forest draw , Millwall win , Luton win , reading win , derby draw , that’s what I’d have been happy with when the fixtures were released . So 2 points behind. If we beat Blackburn Saturday then it’s been s cracking start

Offline Windmill Baggy

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2019, 09:25:03 AM »
I am more so ,reasons why.
Derby,play our style open and passing,but create more chances than us.
Millwall and Reading we cant open up ala every team bar about 3 that will come to the Hawthorns.
So who are we going to beat,problem areas for me are set piece defending,defensive midfielders not closing down and no cutting edge in the final third and the attacking build up to overplayed.
Don't get me wrong we are lovely to watch at times,but unless we improve on all the above we are midtable at best.

Did Derby create more chances than us?

First half: Edwards good opportunity in acres of space, chose to shoot instead of passing it; Zohore one-on-one saved; Furlong free-header from corner.
Second half: Diangana shot well saved; Livermore chance denied by defender block;

Derby first half: Lawrence opportunity missed target
second half: Waghorn half-chance volley saved

They are the home side, they should be attacking and creating chances. We restricted them to a few openings and we had the better ones over the 90.

Offline Maresca Was A Baggie

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2019, 12:11:23 PM »
I still think we look powder puff in the last third. All very pretty bit little end product. Not incisive enough. Not enough bodies in the box on a regular basis. We only seem to come to life when we are chasing the game.

Offline ripryan1971

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Re: Anyone Else Slightly Concerned??
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2019, 01:47:53 PM »
It is all well and good having all the possession and looking neat and tidy in the build up, but come into the 18 yard box,  then it all fizzles out, so whats wrong? 

1) The build up is far to slow, and far to predictable and one paced

2) The man who can thread a ball through out of nowhere ( Sawyers ) is being used as play maker to start off the attacks from deep, to ensure we don't lose the ball in the early stages of an attack.

Thats fine and understable, but the trouble is the other midfielder ( Livermore ) is being asked to play further forward. He simply can't do that, he hasn't got the pace and the technical abilty to slot decisive balls through.

3) Krovinovic. I can't knock him for his willingness and desire to get on the ball, however like Livermore, hes got no pace, everything is infront of him, when Pereria comes on the pitch, that's when we see the best of him, because he uses Pereria pace, to slot balls through, as weve seen in the last 2 games.

4) I've watched all the games so far, and one thing is crystal clear, when balls are coming in the box, they lack quality, also we've not got enough bodies in the danger areas. Edwards for me wants to cut back on his favoured right foot to much and play the easy option, the balls in from his left foot, seem weak and short coming into the box. Seems he won't be tried on the right with Phillips over that side.
Both these wide men haven't done enough this season and there places are under threat.

5) When Pereira comes on, he seems to drift off into the centre. I like this for 2 reasons. One his fullback follows him inside, which in term leaves space for ourfullback to drive into the space. Next reason is, as i mentioned above, he links up so well with Krov, quick  1 2s inside the 18 yard box.

For some reason Phillips and Edwards seem to stay directly on the wing, and don't alter this, where its not enough game intelligence by those 2, or they are told not to, i'm not sure.

6) Neither Austin or Zohore are the ideal lone front man. Austin can hold it up better, where Zohore wants the ball in behind. But if teams defend deep all the time Zohore will be inaffective.  I always think ideally if your a lone striker, you need pace and the height and strength to do the other side of the game. Both aren't fully fit either, which doesn't help
« Last Edit: August 26, 2019, 02:26:22 PM by ripryan1971 »