Author Topic: Slaven Bilic  (Read 198501 times)

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johnny Cash

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #925 on: June 23, 2020, 04:57:23 PM »
Not ridiculous at all.  Krovinovic couldn't play in a midfield. 2 just like Brunt, Greening, Barry etc.  He is not fast enough for an outright winger either.  He doesn't have defensive capability.  He is a player in the mould of Messi, Cantona, Zidane, Zola etc a No10 playmaker.  It's not ideal but sometimes. Special circumstances dictate.  He is a bettet player than HRK every day of the week, if you can't see that well......  What is it 3 hours without a championship goal.

I agree his isnt one of a central midfield two.

He isnt in the mould of any of those players though. Firstly, nobody else is in Messi's mould. He is the greatest goalscorer of all time and also happens to have the most assists.

The rest were all significantly bigger goal threats than Krovinovic is so even forgetting the obvious differences in class his game is nothing like any of theres were. 

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #926 on: June 23, 2020, 06:44:15 PM »
Agree with this 100%. He has shown on several occasions he is not afraid to make changes. He was given a 2 year remit to get the club promoted and is ahead of schedule following a major rebuild last summer.
I honestly cannot think of any big changes to personal,tactics he has made that were positive, without them being made for him by injuries/suspensions,..can you?
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #927 on: June 23, 2020, 08:28:28 PM »
Not ridiculous at all.  Krovinovic couldn't play in a midfield. 2 just like Brunt, Greening, Barry etc.  He is not fast enough for an outright winger either.  He doesn't have defensive capability.  He is a player in the mould of Messi, Cantona, Zidane, Zola etc a No10 playmaker.  It's not ideal but sometimes. Special circumstances dictate.  He is a bettet player than HRK every day of the week, if you can't see that well......  What is it 3 hours without a championship goal.

I clearly said Krovinovic to join Livermore and Sawyers in a midfield 3, not sure where you get the midfield 2 from? His best games have come as part of a midfield 3.

 It's 3 games without a goal not 3 hrs but all strikers go through a dry spell. He's still our top scorer.

It's still a ridiculous idea to drop a striker for a midfielder...especially dropping 10 goals for 2 goals.

I think Krovinovic is a more technical player but he plays a different role to HRK so saying one is better than the other is illogical as you are comparing two different things.

Don't get me wrong I like Krovinovic and think he should be starting games but not as a replacement for HRK.
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #928 on: June 23, 2020, 09:09:50 PM »
I clearly said Krovinovic to join Livermore and Sawyers in a midfield 3, not sure where you get the midfield 2 from? His best games have come as part of a midfield 3.

 It's 3 games without a goal not 3 hrs but all strikers go through a dry spell. He's still our top scorer.

It's still a ridiculous idea to drop a striker for a midfielder...especially dropping 10 goals for 2 goals.

I think Krovinovic is a more technical player but he plays a different role to HRK so saying one is better than the other is illogical as you are comparing two different things.

Don't get me wrong I like Krovinovic and think he should be starting games but not as a replacement for HRK.


HRK is top. Scorer because Austin is a perennial sub and Zohore out of the picture.  Nothing to write home about 10 goals, the Kevin Phillips would have 25-30 by now in this team.  HRK is not good enough for this team.  The only other option is Robinson up front.  If you watched the Guardiola Barcelona team from. 2008 onwards, the false 9 does work as he proved it.  We need the best players starting at this critical stage.  He did the right thing with including Hegazi / Gibbs.  Starting Krov and Diangana on the bench is madness.  How can HRK be one of the best XI with everyone available?

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #929 on: June 23, 2020, 10:57:47 PM »
I honestly cannot think of any big changes to personal,tactics he has made that were positive, without them being made for him by injuries/suspensions,..can you?

Absolutely I can. Without going back through all games played this season he has on several occasions made substitutions during games that have changed games.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #930 on: June 24, 2020, 07:15:34 AM »
HRK is top. Scorer because Austin is a perennial sub and Zohore out of the picture.  Nothing to write home about 10 goals, the Kevin Phillips would have 25-30 by now in this team.  HRK is not good enough for this team.  The only other option is Robinson up front.  If you watched the Guardiola Barcelona team from. 2008 onwards, the false 9 does work as he proved it.  We need the best players starting at this critical stage.  He did the right thing with including Hegazi / Gibbs.  Starting Krov and Diangana on the bench is madness.  How can HRK be one of the best XI with everyone available?

Guardiola had the players to play with a false number 9 we don't. Are you seriously comparing us with Barcelona??? The problem on Saturday wasn't with the formation it was that we didn't create enough clear chances, too many times Phillips had the chance to cross but decided to try and beat his man another time. Phillips wasn't the only one though Gibbs, Periera, Edwards all did it too.

HRK is top scorer because he has scored more goals than anyone else in the team end of. Austin is usually a sub because he hasn't been good enough when he comes on (apart from Blues away). IF HRK isn't good enough for this team then Austin isn't. Neither HRK or AUstin should be 1st or 2nd choice in the PL. The less said about Zohore the better.
I wouldn't mind seeing Robinson through the middle but we would need to play to his strengths. Although I can imagine there would be lots of moans on here if Bilic tried it and we didn't win.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you or I think about the line up it's Bilic that makes the call. He put out a team on Saturday that should have been capable of beating Blues but we didn't, that's football.
As I said in a previous post I'm sure Bilic will make changes to either the starting line up and/or the bench for the Brentford game. Football is a squad game and while players are getting back to match sharpness it makes sense to utilise that squad as much as possible.
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #931 on: June 24, 2020, 09:06:36 AM »
Guardiola had the players to play with a false number 9 we don't. Are you seriously comparing us with Barcelona??? The problem on Saturday wasn't with the formation it was that we didn't create enough clear chances, too many times Phillips had the chance to cross but decided to try and beat his man another time. Phillips wasn't the only one though Gibbs, Periera, Edwards all did it too.

HRK is top scorer because he has scored more goals than anyone else in the team end of. Austin is usually a sub because he hasn't been good enough when he comes on (apart from Blues away). IF HRK isn't good enough for this team then Austin isn't. Neither HRK or AUstin should be 1st or 2nd choice in the PL. The less said about Zohore the better.
I wouldn't mind seeing Robinson through the middle but we would need to play to his strengths. Although I can imagine there would be lots of moans on here if Bilic tried it and we didn't win.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you or I think about the line up it's Bilic that makes the call. He put out a team on Saturday that should have been capable of beating Blues but we didn't, that's football.
As I said in a previous post I'm sure Bilic will make changes to either the starting line up and/or the bench for the Brentford game. Football is a squad game and while players are getting back to match sharpness it makes sense to utilise that squad as much as possible.

It's the same scenario as Barcelona.  We are one of the leading lights in the division.  Our players are a class above most of the division so WBA v B'ham was a bit like Barca v Levante.  I'm quoting real stats in that we're struggling to make the net bulge.  Austins primary problem is fitness, he's not in prime condition.  You seem to also acknowledge that HRK is not good enough and doesn't have the instinct of a natural scorer.  He doesn't play on the shoulder of a defender because he's slow, everything is back to goal and limits our attacking options.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #932 on: June 24, 2020, 10:52:11 AM »
It's the same scenario as Barcelona.  We are one of the leading lights in the division.  Our players are a class above most of the division so WBA v B'ham was a bit like Barca v Levante.  I'm quoting real stats in that we're struggling to make the net bulge.  Austins primary problem is fitness, he's not in prime condition.  You seem to also acknowledge that HRK is not good enough and doesn't have the instinct of a natural scorer.  He doesn't play on the shoulder of a defender because he's slow, everything is back to goal and limits our attacking options.

I have also quoted real stats the main one being that HRK is our top goalscorer.

The Barcelona comparison isn't as simple as you make it though. Barcelona had players that were schooled in playing with a false number 9, we haven't had that luxury so to try it with players that would have to adjust to it is a bad idea especially as there is a promotion at stake and only 8 games left.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #933 on: June 24, 2020, 11:06:24 AM »
I have also quoted real stats the main one being that HRK is our top goalscorer.

The Barcelona comparison isn't as simple as you make it though. Barcelona had players that were schooled in playing with a false number 9, we haven't had that luxury so to try it with players that would have to adjust to it is a bad idea especially as there is a promotion at stake and only 8 games left.



OK that's your view.  I happen to think formations are a little over rated and its down to the quality of players at your disposal.  The other point is that Sawyers and Livermore are poor at shooting from outside the box, you'll have noted that Krovinovic is more adept.  When your forward is not prolific is to put the pressure and emphasis on midfield to score.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #934 on: June 24, 2020, 12:11:25 PM »
OK that's your view.  I happen to think formations are a little over rated and its down to the quality of players at your disposal.  The other point is that Sawyers and Livermore are poor at shooting from outside the box, you'll have noted that Krovinovic is more adept.  When your forward is not prolific is to put the pressure and emphasis on midfield to score.

if that's the case why do managers buy players that will fit their system?

Sawyers is poor at shooting from outside the box as was evidenced on Saturday. Livermore isn't as bad as you are making out, he has scored from outside the box. Krovinovic might be more adept at it but he doesn't do it often enough. He had a goal disallowed against Millwall earlier this season but then seemed reluctant to shoot from range after that and was often one of the players guilty of endlessly passing it around the edge of the box when shooting was an option.

Yes our forwards aren't prolific but we are the second highest scorers in the league only 2 behind the top scorers are 6 goals better than the 3rd highest scorers, so scoring isn't an issue. Not really sure why you mentioned it.

The issue that Bilic has to deal with is how we break down sides that pack the defence and sit back like Blues did on Saturday. Luckily most of the games we have left are against teams with something to play for, which should mean a more open game.
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zippyandbungle

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #935 on: June 24, 2020, 08:55:20 PM »
Ther was a post on Facebook with a quote from Darnell furlong

Along the lines of we are working on being more defensive so that the frontline don’t have to score as many....

Now whilst I get it...and we have 6 clean sheets in 9 matches (League) ......we haven’t scored for over 3 matches (league) and our imbalance in squad is definitely weighted towards the front end of the pitch....it would seem like a very strange strategy for 5his manager and 5his group of players .
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #936 on: June 24, 2020, 10:38:10 PM »
Ther was a post on Facebook with a quote from Darnell furlong

Along the lines of we are working on being more defensive so that the frontline don’t have to score as many....

Now whilst I get it...and we have 6 clean sheets in 9 matches (League) ......we haven’t scored for over 3 matches (league) and our imbalance in squad is definitely weighted towards the front end of the pitch....it would seem like a very strange strategy for 5his manager and 5his group of players .

I think you're missing the point of the quote.

https://twitter.com/WBA/status/1275728225386270721?s=09

If we're not scoring many then we need to be keeping clean sheets or we will lose, that's fairly obvious.
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #937 on: June 24, 2020, 10:45:19 PM »
I think you're missing the point of the quote.

https://twitter.com/WBA/status/1275728225386270721?s=09

If we're not scoring many then we need to be keeping clean sheets or we will lose, that's fairly obvious.
That’s what I said....so no..I don’t think I’m missing the point .
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #938 on: June 24, 2020, 10:59:01 PM »
That’s what I said....so no..I don’t think I’m missing the point .

Ok then, apologies. Seemed to me you were suggesting we need to be more gung-ho in order to start scoring.

In reality it's a minor fluff piece to give our social media team something to post. It's pretty common sense that the defence will be working hard on keeping clean sheets
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #939 on: June 24, 2020, 11:01:24 PM »
Ok then, apologies. Seemed to me you were suggesting we need to be more gung-ho in order to start scoring.

In reality it's a minor fluff piece to give our social media team something to post. It's pretty common sense that the defence will be working hard on keeping clean sheets
Dow be daft..no need to apologise
If we keep a clean sheet on Friday I’ll be happy...I’m not sure some get how important Friday is ....this weekend could make it almost done
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #940 on: June 25, 2020, 08:36:26 AM »
if that's the case why do managers buy players that will fit their system?

Sawyers is poor at shooting from outside the box as was evidenced on Saturday. Livermore isn't as bad as you are making out, he has scored from outside the box. Krovinovic might be more adept at it but he doesn't do it often enough. He had a goal disallowed against Millwall earlier this season but then seemed reluctant to shoot from range after that and was often one of the players guilty of endlessly passing it around the edge of the box when shooting was an option.

Yes our forwards aren't prolific but we are the second highest scorers in the league only 2 behind the top scorers are 6 goals better than the 3rd highest scorers, so scoring isn't an issue. Not really sure why you mentioned it.

The issue that Bilic has to deal with is how we break down sides that pack the defence and sit back like Blues did on Saturday. Luckily most of the games we have left are against teams with something to play for, which should mean a more open game.

In recent games we are struggling to open teams up, apparently its 270mins without a goal.  My point is HRK is a guaranteed starter when he only scores occasionally.  Someone else said it was madness Edwards was picked as a sub ahead of Grosicki.  I agree and Grosicki is one of our fastest players despite turning 30.  So I don't see why Grosicki or Robinson can't be deployed as the central striker?  Krovinovic was our best player in the few games before the lockdown and I noted his shooting ability.

In summary, Phillips/Livermore/Sawyers/HRK are very lucky to be guaranteed starters with their patchy form.  If I was Krovinovic I wouldn't be happy with the team selection v Blues.  We'll see what Bilic comes up with tomorrow night......

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #941 on: June 25, 2020, 09:03:04 AM »
In recent games we are struggling to open teams up, apparently its 270mins without a goal.  My point is HRK is a guaranteed starter when he only scores occasionally.  Someone else said it was madness Edwards was picked as a sub ahead of Grosicki.  I agree and Grosicki is one of our fastest players despite turning 30.  So I don't see why Grosicki or Robinson can't be deployed as the central striker?  Krovinovic was our best player in the few games before the lockdown and I noted his shooting ability.

In summary, Phillips/Livermore/Sawyers/HRK are very lucky to be guaranteed starters with their patchy form.  If I was Krovinovic I wouldn't be happy with the team selection v Blues.  We'll see what Bilic comes up with tomorrow night......
Ajayi pretty much confirmed in an interview that Kyle Edwards is the quickest member of our 1st team squad. It's good to see Bilic show some faith in him and we have seen him produce a burst of pace or quick shifts of the ball on the edge of the box to get shots off. Perfectly reasonable to bring him on - like the other 3 wingers used on the night he didn't get much joy but doesn't make it wrong to bring him on. I'm not aware of Grosicki playing through the middle to any extent and I think most of us would be surprised if Bilic played him there.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #942 on: June 25, 2020, 09:06:16 AM »
Ajayi pretty much confirmed in an interview that Kyle Edwards is the quickest member of our 1st team squad. It's good to see Bilic show some faith in him and we have seen him produce a burst of pace or quick shifts of the ball on the edge of the box to get shots off. Perfectly reasonable to bring him on - like the other 3 wingers used on the night he didn't get much joy but doesn't make it wrong to bring him on. I'm not aware of Grosicki playing through the middle to any extent and I think most of us would be surprised if Bilic played him there.

I have to say i would find it bizarre to play a pocket rocket as CF,
Robinson I can reconcile as he is physically and athletically akin to Thierry henry, (not the same talent though)
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #943 on: June 25, 2020, 10:16:27 AM »
In recent games we are struggling to open teams up, apparently its 270mins without a goal.  My point is HRK is a guaranteed starter when he only scores occasionally.  Someone else said it was madness Edwards was picked as a sub ahead of Grosicki.  I agree and Grosicki is one of our fastest players despite turning 30.  So I don't see why Grosicki or Robinson can't be deployed as the central striker?  Krovinovic was our best player in the few games before the lockdown and I noted his shooting ability.

In summary, Phillips/Livermore/Sawyers/HRK are very lucky to be guaranteed starters with their patchy form.  If I was Krovinovic I wouldn't be happy with the team selection v Blues.  We'll see what Bilic comes up with tomorrow night......

Robinson I can see as a central striker  as he has played there before but I can't see the logic of playing Grosicki, who has spent his entire career as a winger, through the middle. Yes he has pace but that pace is better on the wing. We need players that can beat a man and put a cross in that's where Grosicki is most dangerous.
Phillips would be another option through the middle as he has played there before.

I agree that Krovinovic was much improved for the 12 games before shut down but before that he was very hit and miss. Used as part of a midfield 3 he has become effective. I just can't see him playing as a false 9 as you suggested.

HRK does score occasionally but he scores more occasionally than anyone else.
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #944 on: June 25, 2020, 11:12:05 AM »
Ther was a post on Facebook with a quote from Darnell furlong

Along the lines of we are working on being more defensive so that the frontline don’t have to score as many....

Now whilst I get it...and we have 6 clean sheets in 9 matches (League) ......we haven’t scored for over 3 matches (league) and our imbalance in squad is definitely weighted towards the front end of the pitch....it would seem like a very strange strategy for 5his manager and 5his group of players .
But as we are hoping to playing in the Prem, this would need to be addressed at some point, so at least it shows forward thinking.

On Bilic in general, I think charisma and man management is his main strength, and at least his substitutions are generally about trying to win games

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #945 on: June 26, 2020, 09:49:05 PM »
I’m going to repeat a point I made in the match thread....

Darren Moore’s last 15 league games - 25 points from 45 and sacked.

Bilic’s last 15 league games -19 points from 45!

We can’t sack him, we have to see it through but the bloke belongs in a studio with Gary Neville.

I hope we manage to stumble over the line because the money will help us longer term, particularly in uncertain times, but next season will be hard work and I’ve no confidence or faith he will be able to keep us up.

If we don’t go up we are in real trouble and I think we could see a real extended period of time in the championship.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #946 on: June 26, 2020, 09:53:06 PM »
I’m going to repeat a point I made in the match thread....

Darren Moore’s last 15 league games - 25 points from 45 and sacked.

Bilic’s last 15 league games -19 points from 45!

We can’t sack him, we have to see it through but the bloke belongs in a studio with Gary Neville.

I hope we manage to stumble over the line because the money will help us longer term, particularly in uncertain times, but next season will be hard work and I’ve no confidence or faith he will be able to keep us up.

If we don’t go up we are in real trouble and I think we could see a real extended period of time in the championship.
well Bilic will be happy because he loves the championship.

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #947 on: June 26, 2020, 09:55:02 PM »
Time to earn your money....

Mind you didn’t get get a 12m payout recently from the Saudi club
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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #948 on: June 26, 2020, 09:55:33 PM »
Think I’ll give his usual post-match waffle a miss tonight

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Re: Slaven Bilic
« Reply #949 on: June 26, 2020, 09:56:24 PM »
Why is Grosicki not in the squad over Edwards? Fortunately when we don’t go up we will still have a semi decent championship squad next season, but the fact this squad isn’t miles clear is a joke imo. I’ve never known a championship team have this many options.