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Offline Mister AT

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2019, 02:35:59 PM »
In an ideal world, we would get most our business done as soon as possible, but we all know it doesn't work like that.

We are going to have to shift some players out before we get anyone in, and I cant see many of our first teamers being brought early in the window, majority of them will be with us until couple weeks before next season or until some teams start to panic and pay the prices, which will massively effect how we approach next year.

The first signing has to be made early and it HAS to be the appointment of the new manager.

But as others have said, I don't have a lot of faith in Lai, Jenkins and Dowling to pick the right man.
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Offline WBArgo

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2019, 02:45:49 PM »
Selling Phillips would be a disaster.

I don't think it would be, he's too injury prone I'm afraid.
Obviously if he can stay fit and play consistently then he's one of our best players, but the problem is that he's never been fully fit. Even when he returns it takes a good 3 games for him to get going again.
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Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2019, 10:02:39 PM »
Returning to Parent Club

Gayle, Holgate, Johansen. Montero, Murphy & Tosin

Out of these we'll miss Gayle, Holgate & Johansen. If we could somehow hold on to any of those 3 then great news. Wages for all of them could be a big stumbling block on top of any transfer fee's though. The other 3 were a waste of space so no loss there.

Returning to The Albion

Burke from Celtic - by all accounts (and apparently according to Lennon himself) he is "S***" and after an ok start up north he really faded big time. Biggest waste of money the club has ever spent, time to cut our losses and get rid to whoever will stump up any money at all for him.

Fitzwater from Walsall - Still young, still learning, depends on defensive outgoings on if he stays in squad or gets shipped back out on loan

Howkins from Port Vale - as above

Nyom from Leganes - forgotten man. Most fans won't want to keep him but with Holgate leaving he'll be back in the frame for next season, wouldn't be surprised to see him starting the first game in August.

Rondon from Newcastle - we will surely sell him as he won't want to stay, possible leverage for Gayle...

Wilson from Exeter - Same as Fitzwater really

Out of Contract:
Barry, Brunt, Harper, Hoolahan, Mears, Morrison & Myhill.

Pretty sure Brunt has a year in his favour rather than club's favour? so it's upto him I guess... I'd be inclined to suggest he moves on now though. Same for Mozza. Barry didn't play enough games to activate his contract (he was 1 or 2 short I think?)  and would look to let him go as well.  Don't mind any of the 3 of them being involved in some way with the club moving forward like coaching roles etc but they should no longer be in the squad.

Myhill... time to say goodbye, you've sat on the bench getting an easy ride for too many years now. Best to keep Bond and promote youth as the 3rd keeper.

Mears & Hoolahan "did a job" when called upon but wouldn't want to keep either of them.

Letting all if not most of the above will free up quite a big wedge of the wage bill i'd imagine as well.

As for Harper, If the rumours and hearsay are to be believed he had a bit of a paddy regarding contract talks. I won't judge the guy however though until we know more or find out what is going on with his contract situation and/or confirm/deny said rumours. He looks like he could be a real asset as logn as he keeps putting in the effort. People also need to remember he's still only young. I think they forget sometimes due to his stature.

Remaining 18/19 Squad

Goalkeepers

Johnstone - Played well last couple of games but has been poor/unconvincing most of the season, hopefully improves

Bond - should have got more starts this season with Johntsone's general poor form. Will be good to keep him.

Defenders

Bartley - Played ok last couple of games, but has quite easily earned the "calamity Kyle" moniker.. sadly here to stay

Dawson - Will want to move on but don't think he'll get the interest he thinks he will unless Burnley come back

Gibbs - Prem team will be keeping tabs on him, probably on high wages and Jenkins jump at the chance to shift him unfortunately

Hegazi - Immense and easily our best defender... sadly can see a prem team coming in for him, hope we can hold on to him though

Townsend - Was adequate cover this season, but likely to be in the first team more with Gibbs likely to move on

Midfielders

Field - Should be in the first team more next season, give the guy a run of games and he'll do the job for us

Livermore - Steady eddy, Nailed on for Captain next season (Bartley will be VC) if Brunt leaves/retires. Needs to lose some muscle bulk though to be a bit more agile.

Forwards

Robson-Kanu - I just don't think you understand.... Please leave

Rodriguez - Age now creeping up on him so will affect his value, Burnley probably the only team who will come calling for him

Youth (Made at least 1 app)
Edwards - Could do the job for us if given games. Scored a great goal against Brentford

Leko - Headless chicken despite being in and around th squad for 2 seasons now

Rogers - very young, may just be on the fringes for next season depending on signing but may benefit with a loan spell. If we can develop him correctly then he could be a real asset moving forward

Tulloch - seemed like he carried a threat in the cup but not featured since.


Assuming we do let go all/most of the people out of contract then a big rebuild in most areas is needed, midfield in particular! think we'll need at least 2 more strikers too.


Appreciate the effort that must have gone into such a long post but your description of Jake Livermore and his future prospects is where I stopped reading. I'm not sure I'm allowed to say clueless but that's what Jake is  ;)
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Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2019, 10:09:27 PM »
Any reason Phillips/Edwards was omitted?

Oversight on my part

Phillips age 28 contract to 2020. Mixed season not untypical of every season for the player some good form followed by  a period of injury and a slow return to form. This pattern is well established and will not get better with age. Would be tempted to cash in here.


Edwards age 21 contract to not known. Has had a few useful appearances I would hope for a bigger contribution from him next season

Frankly I would be looking for Edwards to replace Phillips
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Offline BalisPen

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2019, 10:16:46 PM »
Oversight on my part

Phillips age 28 contract to 2020. Mixed season not untypical of every season for the player some good form followed by  a period of injury and a slow return to form. This pattern is well established and will not get better with age. Would be tempted to cash in here.


Edwards age 21 contract to not known. Has had a few useful appearances I would hope for a bigger contribution from him next season

Frankly I would be looking for Edwards to replace Phillips

Tempted.

I'd rip off the arm of anybody offering the reported £15m Cardiff were said to have bid for him.

Hell, I'd take half that.

Just cannot rely on him. Great on his day, but his days few and far between.

It was a sad sight seeing Neil fing Taylor out sprint him time and again in the first game.

Offline iwastherein68

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2019, 10:25:25 PM »
Tempted.

I'd rip off the arm of anybody offering the reported £15m Cardiff were said to have bid for him.

Hell, I'd take half that.

Just cannot rely on him. Great on his day, but his days few and far between.

It was a sad sight seeing Neil fing Taylor out sprint him time and again in the first game.
I would encourage the sale of Phillips, he is unreliable in terms of fitness and after a spell out takes to long to get back into form. Characteristics which will only get worse as he gets older. To be honest I have no great desire to keep any of our senior players, lets have a clear out.
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Offline overseas baggie

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2019, 10:48:03 PM »
I would encourage the sale of Phillips, he is unreliable in terms of fitness and after a spell out takes to long to get back into form. Characteristics which will only get worse as he gets older. To be honest I have no great desire to keep any of our senior players, lets have a clear out.

We have to get the average age down to around 22-24, and sign players with resale value.  A couple of older heads in there is fine.

Offline Dan87uk

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2019, 11:45:19 PM »

Appreciate the effort that must have gone into such a long post but your description of Jake Livermore and his future prospects is where I stopped reading. I'm not sure I'm allowed to say clueless but that's what Jake is  ;)

I don't particularly want him as captain, but he's already been handed the armband several times this season when Brunt isn't on the pitch - hence the nailed on comment - still a better option than having captain calamity Bartley.

Unsure why you think what I said would be incorrect? He is a steady eddy.... will give you a metronome 5 or 6 out of 10 most games as a minimum - granted, very rarely going above that.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 11:58:51 PM by Dan87uk »
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Offline alex1

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2019, 12:30:42 AM »
Its all very well saying let's have a mass clearout, but that suggests there are adequate replacements out there all dying to come in and get a chance at the Albion. The players who will be eager to come in, will be bogstandard Championship or rejects from Prem clubs looking for a last payday.  We might be lucky and find the odd gem amongst them, but generally I can't see us finding better quality. We still have a reputation as a recent Prem club, which no doubt attracted the likes of Gibbs, Phillips, J-Rod, Gayle etc. , but letting them go certainly doesn't guarentee we'll do better.

At the same time we have to face the fact we are now on a reduced budget from where we were a year ago. So pure economics forces us to make savings. But we must try to hold on to as many quality players as we can, because I don't think we'll have the same attraction as we used to have.  I hope we make every effort to keep Gayle, even if it is on loan, because he likes it here and goals are golddust. 
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Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2019, 02:15:05 AM »
I don't particularly want him as captain, but he's already been handed the armband several times this season when Brunt isn't on the pitch - hence the nailed on comment - still a better option than having captain calamity Bartley.

Unsure why you think what I said would be incorrect? He is a steady eddy.... will give you a metronome 5 or 6 out of 10 most games as a minimum - granted, very rarely going above that.


Hint, it wasn't Livermore I was calling clueless  ;) :-X


For what it's worth 3 or 4 out of 10 at best. England international central midfielder who can't play on the half turn.
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Offline Dan87uk

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2019, 08:47:37 AM »

Hint, it wasn't Livermore I was calling clueless  ;) :-X


For what it's worth 3 or 4 out of 10 at best. England international central midfielder who can't play on the half turn.

Yes Jacko, I'm quite aware who you were referring to.

I'm still yet to see what you have to offer in defence of this view besides "I don't like Livermore" which you've made quite clear in the past on several occasions... I already noted he needs to lose some of the ridiculous bulk he's got in order to become more agile i.e. "on the half turn" as you put it which would make him more effective than he is now and most of my observations are based on what I think the club might do.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 09:03:33 AM by Dan87uk »
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Offline darbolina

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2019, 09:26:18 AM »
As others have said Tosin actually looked decent as a defensive, holding midfielder - a bit like Carlton Palmer but Tosin can pass too. I'd go for him as he's a versatile option and will develop I think into a decent player.

I'd keep Brunt in the squad (versatile and experienced good character) but I'd get rid of Livermore. I think we can spend his wages on more progressive midfielders plus we may get a few milllion for him?

Getting the balance right in midfield is critical if we're ever going to develop into a better team. We need to shed defensive minded midfielders and replace them with players who are forward thinking and like to play/ pass/ move. Gera and Koren weren't big but could do a bit of everything (Koren wasn't a tackler but wasn't shy) and they could really play. These are the kinds of players we desperately need now in midfield.

Offline tuamigos

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2019, 12:09:40 PM »
The most concerning factor regarding this years squad was that the better players weren't ours!
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Offline WBAinDEVON

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2019, 12:20:14 PM »
Blown promotion for years, most likely go down before we go back up
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Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2019, 08:34:42 PM »
Amended the list following the earlier announcements and stripped out the loanees

Squad
Goalkeepers

Sam Johnstone age 25 contract until 2022 Young enough to improve and he must to play at Premier League level but okay at Championship level.

Jonathan Bond age 25 contract until 2020 From the little I have seen a decent back up option no hardship to leave his contract run down.

Defenders
Keiran Gibbs age 29 contract until 2021 One of the players assumed by many to be off, personally I think the combination of age wages and fees makes him an unattractive buy for most Premier League clubs.
 
Conor Townsend age 26 contract until 2021 Been an okay understudy to Gibbs would be okay as such next season less sanguine about him being 1st choice.

Kyle Bartley age 27 contract until 2021 Was done no favours when being played on the left of a 3 early in the season and looked terrible but has looked a lot better in the middle of the 3 will be here next season.

Craig Dawson age 28 contract until 2020 Wanted out last summer and if we were looking to sell him, I think that was the opportunity. He has had an okay season but has done very little to justify a big fee or a first team spot at a Premier League club. If I was a TD at a Premier League club, I would see how he does next season and pick him up as a free agent to fill out my squad.

Ahmed Hegazi 28 contract until 2022 The pick of our defenders still subject to a £10m release clause which is Premier League or top end of the other big 5 leagues I suspect somebody somewhere might think that’s an okay deal.
 
Midfielders

Sam Field age 21 contract until 2022 Decision time is looming it is disappointing that he hasn’t been able to hold down a regular place in the team. Next season needs to the breakthrough season.

Rakeem Harper age 19 contract until 2019 The one youngster who has had a significant amount of game time this season and in truth blown hot and cold. Nevertheless, it would be disappointing if he didn’t sign a new contract this summer.

Chris Brunt age 34 contract until 2019 Not sure the experiment of him as central midfielder works but overall, we probably still better with him on the pitch than not. Can see another season

Jake Livermore age 29 contract until 2022 The nowhere man. Neither box to box midfielder or a DM or a deep sitting play maker if we could sell, I would suspect we won’t be able to

Jonathan Leko age 20 contract until 2021 With just one year left on his contract it is decision time either he finds a place in the team or I think we will have to let him go.

Phillips age 28 contract to 2020. Mixed season not untypical of every season for the player some good form followed by  a period of injury and a slow return to form. This pattern is well established and will not get better with age. Would be tempted to cash in here.

Edwards age 21 contract to not known. Has had a few useful appearances I would hope for a bigger contribution from him next season

Forwards

Jay Rodriguez age 29 contract until 2021 another player like Dawson who might have moved last summer has had a good season without being particularly eye catching. The significant point here is for a player that has had injury issues in the past the sheer volume of game time he has put in might dispel any lingering doubts about his fitness.

Hal Robson-Kanu age 29 contract until 2020 We’ve got Kanu Robson Kanu I don’t think you understand he has year to go and won’t be sold so we’ve got Robson Kanu.


Loanees returning

Solomon Rondon 29 contract until 2020 Still subject to a £15m release clause has had a good year at Newcastle I think

Allan Nyom 30 contract until 2020 Spent the season in La Liga guess we will move him on

Jack Fitzwater 22 contract until 2020 Spent a season on loan at Walsall. The experience will have greatly helped his development whether he is ready to step up to a role in the Championship is a different question,

Oliver Burke 22 contract until 2022. Remains an enigma spent the 2nd half of the season on loan at Celtic started well but has drifted out of their first XI following Rodgers departure. I don’t know what we can do with this player there is talent, but no coach seems to be able to tap into it. Plainly unhappy with us but not sure who will buy him.

Kane Wilson 19 contract until 2020 Spent time with Walsall and Exeter this season and got some useful game time as with Fitzwater this a youngster we need to give a chance to next season.

Assuming a Hughton 4-2-3-1

We need  2 RB's 2LB's  4 CB's 4 DM/CM's 2 RW 2 LW 2 AM's 3 CF's

As of today we are short of 2 RB's 2 DM/CM 2 LW's 2 AM's 1 CF

That without anything else is going to be a busy summer.

The only area we seem well stocked is RW and Centre Back






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Offline MarkW

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2019, 09:18:08 AM »
If you feel we should keep and play Kane Wilson, we only need 1 RB, no?

It's going to be a big overhaul, but could be exciting
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Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2019, 09:27:14 AM »
If you feel we should keep and play Kane Wilson, we only need 1 RB, no?

It's going to be a big overhaul, but could be exciting

Sorry overlooked Kane Wilson. At 19 it's a bit of judgement call a lot will depend on how he has developed this season and he is of the age where even a few months can see a significant improvement. Personally where we have a decent academy graduate I would favour pushing them into the squad rather recruiting a journeyman pro as a back up. So on balance maybe 1 RB.

Even assuming that every senior pro that might leave won't we are up to the point where we are going to recruit nearly a whole new team or at the very least assimulate a lot of youngsters into the first team squad. I think it will be a very different squad to the one that finished the season.



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Offline baggie96

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2019, 09:39:16 AM »
Thought Jrod and Gibbs only had 12 months left on contract so pleasantly surprised they’ve still got 2 years. Would be tempted to keep them both to be honest. Sell the guys with 12 months on contract and try to shift Livermore and Burke.

Rondon - 16.5m
Phillips - 10m
Dawson - 8m
Nyom - 1m
Burke - 5m
Livermore - 8m
Total would be 48.5m - spend the majority of it on younger players. Would still be saving money as those being sold will be on huge wages. Still leaves you a strong core;

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New Rb Bartley Hegazi Gibbs
New rm New cm Field! New lm
New cam
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Offline Atomic

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2019, 09:40:21 AM »
From what I've seen of Kane Wilson he's always seemed pretty immobile, even maybe a little bit chubby. Never looked likely to become  a top Championship / Premier League right back to me.

Kyle Howkins is another one. If anyone thinks Livermore is slow on the turn you want to see this lad. Pleasingly he's been released.

Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2019, 09:51:12 AM »
Thought Jrod and Gibbs only had 12 months left on contract so pleasantly surprised they’ve still got 2 years. Would be tempted to keep them both to be honest. Sell the guys with 12 months on contract and try to shift Livermore and Burke.

Rondon - 16.5m
Phillips - 10m
Dawson - 8m
Nyom - 1m
Burke - 5m
Livermore - 8m
Total would be 48.5m - spend the majority of it on younger players. Would still be saving money as those being sold will be on huge wages. Still leaves you a strong core;

Johnstone
New Rb Bartley Hegazi Gibbs
New rm New cm Field! New lm
New cam
Jrod


I don't disagree with the sentiment but I think some of the fees are a little optimistic. Particularly Burke and Livermore. If I were in the market for a Centre Back this summer and had a budget around the £10m mark I would trigger Hegazi's release clause rather than spend £8m on Dawson.
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Offline Scooby Doo

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2019, 09:34:05 AM »
The last time this club had an upheaval in terms of playing squad it was nothing short of a disaster and was overseen by Alan Irvine. We need to appoint someone with transfer nous who can oversee a big change in this playing squad. That is key.

Joleon Lescott
Craig Gardner
Chris Baird
Sebastien Pocognoli
Ideye Brown
Cristian Gamboa
Jason Davidson
Georgios Samaras
Sebastian Blanco

That window was a total disaster and we never really recovered in my opinion.

Offline frazzle

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2019, 10:19:36 AM »
The last time this club had an upheaval in terms of playing squad it was nothing short of a disaster and was overseen by Alan Irvine. We need to appoint someone with transfer nous who can oversee a big change in this playing squad. That is key.

Joleon Lescott
Craig Gardner
Chris Baird
Sebastien Pocognoli
Ideye Brown
Cristian Gamboa
Jason Davidson
Georgios Samaras
Sebastian Blanco

That window was a total disaster and we never really recovered in my opinion.

That is a list of abject failure isn’t it. Maybe Lescott could be seen as decent but the rest were a complete nightmare. I remember there was also Varela who I thought looked really good but he was immediately thrown out by Pulis if I remember.

Offline Scooby Doo

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2019, 10:38:35 AM »
That is a list of abject failure isn’t it. Maybe Lescott could be seen as decent but the rest were a complete nightmare. I remember there was also Varela who I thought looked really good but he was immediately thrown out by Pulis if I remember.

Another window like that and we could be right down the creek. My problem with his Hughton is that he had one good window after achieving promotion. He signed Gross and Ryan who proved to be instrumental to them staying up. The two seasons that followed he spent quite a lot of money on rubbish.

Offline johnny Cash

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2019, 11:29:58 AM »
The squad lists / loans returning are also missing Dara O’shea. Seems to have had a decent season from the little I’ve read.

Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2019, 11:48:06 AM »
The last time this club had an upheaval in terms of playing squad it was nothing short of a disaster and was overseen by Alan Irvine. We need to appoint someone with transfer nous who can oversee a big change in this playing squad. That is key.

Joleon Lescott
Craig Gardner
Chris Baird
Sebastien Pocognoli
Ideye Brown
Cristian Gamboa
Jason Davidson
Georgios Samaras
Sebastian Blanco

That window was a total disaster and we never really recovered in my opinion.

Whatever the merits or demerits of the indivduals it was just badly thought through. Every mistake a club could make we made bad scouting, recruiting duplicates or players completely incompatable with the Head Coaches style of play and then changing the coach half way through the season and therefore creating an even bigger disconect between style and squad.


Another window like that and we could be right down the creek. My problem with his Hughton is that he had one good window after achieving promotion. He signed Gross and Ryan who proved to be instrumental to them staying up. The two seasons that followed he spent quite a lot of money on rubbish.

How much influence Hughton has had on recent windows at is debatable in point of fact there seems to be a a disconnect between Brighton's recruitment and Hughton's style. It almost looks like Brighton have been trying to tool up for a different style which Hughton has either been unwilling or unable to deliver.

Whatever the procees whoever has the final say it is critical that the squad is built to meet the Coach's style.


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