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Offline Standaman

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The Squad
« on: May 15, 2019, 01:28:41 AM »
I thought it might be helpful to look at our squad going into the summer which I think will probably be the most significant in over a decade. Plainly we cannot progress much without the new Head Coach being appointed and having a base shape and a pattern of play to work to is going to be vital. We simply cannot go into another season with a squad thrown together in the manner this one has been.

Stating the obvious there is going to be a massive turnover of players this summer it is simply unavoidable given the age profile of the squad (still too old) and the length of most of the contracts (most have less than 2 years to run).

I would caveat this with that I don’t think all the players that many fans assume will be sold e.g. Gibbs, Rodriguez, Dawson and Hegazi will necessarily be moved on. For one very simple reason there may not be buyers. For the most part if I were a fan of a Premier League club and those players were bought for significant fees as 1st choice players I would be disappointed.
I would preface all my comments with an understanding that the squad needs a clear 1st choice player and a spare for each position in the SHAPE the coach wants to set up as a default if a player is neither they need to move on.

Squad
Goalkeepers

Sam Johnstone age 25 contract until 2022 Young enough to improve and he must to play at Premier League level but okay at Championship level.

Jonathan Bond age 25 contract until 2020 From the little I have seen a decent back up option no hardship to leave his contract run down.

Boaz Myhill        age 36 contract until 2019 Needs to be replaced by one of the decent young keepers in the youth set up cannot be allowed to draw a pension indefinitely.

Defenders
Keiran Gibbs age 29 contract until 2021 One of the players assumed by many to be off, personally I think the combination of age wages and fees makes him an unattractive buy for most Premier League clubs.

Tyrone Mears age 36 contract until 2019 Time to retire.
 
Conor Townsend age 26 contract until 2021 Been an okay understudy to Gibbs would be okay as such next season less sanguine about him being 1st choice.

Kyle Bartley age 27 contract until 2021 Was done no favours when being played on the left of a 3 early in the season and looked terrible but has looked a lot better in the middle of the 3 will be here next season.

Craig Dawson age 28 contract until 2020 Wanted out last summer and if we were looking to sell him, I think that was the opportunity. He has had an okay season but has done very little to justify a big fee or a first team spot at a Premier League club. If I was a TD at a Premier League club, I would see how he does next season and pick him up as a free agent to fill out my squad.

Ahmed Hegazi 28 contract until 2022 The pick of our defenders still subject to a £10m release clause which is Premier League or top end of the other big 5 leagues I suspect somebody somewhere might think that’s an okay deal.

Tosin Adarabioyo age 21 contract 2019 I think there is a decent player there but still has that bambi on ice look at times. No way is he ever going to be at the level required to be a first teamer at Man City. Would I have him back? Yes, would I push the boat out to get him?  No

Mason Holgate age 22 contract until 2019 Best of the January loans. Probably a little too good for the Championship needs to mature and will only do that by playing games if not at Everton then probably good for a move to a lower half Premier League club.
 
Midfielders
Stefan Johansen age 28 contract until 2019 Has come good after a slow start although Fulham have taken up their option might still be worth looking at as a possible recruit.

Sam Field age 21 contract until 2022 Decision time is looming it is disappointing that he hasn’t been able to hold down a regular place in the team. Next season needs to the breakthrough season.

Rakeem Harper age 19 contract until 2019 The one youngster who has had a significant amount of game time this season and in truth blown hot and cold. Nevertheless, it would be disappointing if he didn’t sign a new contract this summer.

Chris Brunt age 34 contract until 2019 Not sure the experiment of him as central midfielder works but overall, we probably still better with him on the pitch than not. Can see another season

Jake Livermore age 29 contract until 2022 The nowhere man. Neither box to box midfielder or a DM or a deep sitting play maker if we could sell, I would suspect we won’t be able to

Gareth Barry age 38 contract 2019 Injured can’t play 2 games a week but has looked decent from time to time. Think he should be let go

Wes Hoolahan age 36 contract until 2019 Love Wes but let’s face it past it pity, we never saw him in his pomp

James Morrison age 32 contract until 2019 Not played anywhere near enough games to justify a new contract sad to say but I think this is the end.

Jacob Murphy age 24 contract until 2019 Newcastle’s problem and good luck with that.

Jefferson Montero age 29 contract until 2019 Not sure why we signed him sorry Swansea he is all yours.

Jonathan Leko age 20 contract until 2021 With just one year left on his contract it is decision time either he finds a place in the team or I think we will have to let him go.

Forwards
Dwight Gayle age 28 contract until 2019 Unfortunately played his last game for the club. I think he will get a move to a Premier League club I don’t think the much-heralded swap deal with Rondon will happen in the Championship, wages being the killer issue. Think he might find a spot on a Premier League squad. 

Jay Rodriguez age 29 contract until 2021 another player like Dawson who might have moved last summer has had a good season without being particularly eye catching. The significant point here is for a player that has had injury issues in the past the sheer volume of game time he has put in might dispel any lingering doubts about his fitness.

Hal Robson-Kanu age 29 contract until 2020 We’ve got Kanu Robson Kanu I don’t think you understand he has year to go and won’t be sold so we’ve got Robson Kanu.
Kyle Edwards age 21 contract until 2020 We have seen a few glimpses of his potential which is encouraging next season has to be the breakthrough year.

Loanees returning
Solomon Rondon 29 contract until 2020 Still subject to a £15m release clause has had a good year at Newcastle I think

Allan Nyom 30 contract until 2020 Spent the season in La Liga guess we will move him on

Jack Fitzwater 22 contract until 2020 Spent a season on loan at Walsall. The experience will have greatly helped his development whether he is ready to step up to a role in the Championship is a different question,

Oliver Burke 22 contract until 2022. Remains an enigma spent the 2nd half of the season on loan at Celtic started well but has drifted out of their first XI following Rodgers departure. I don’t know what we can do with this player there is talent, but no coach seems to be able to tap into it. Plainly unhappy with us but not sure who will buy him.

Kane Wilson 19 contract until 2020 Spent time with Walsall and Exeter this season and got some useful game time as with Fitzwater this a youngster we need to give a chance to next season.

We could ship out as many as 15 players. However while some turnover is inevitable I don't think it will be quite as extensive as some might think
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Offline beechyboy90

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2019, 05:17:20 AM »
I pretty much agree with all you said.

Goalies were ok need to get rid of myhill not worth the wages to have 3 senior keepers.
(Especially as we need to trim the wage bill)

Holgate I would like us to try sign he's versatile decent technically quick and the right age and could improve into a decent pl player.
Dawson might try force a move not sure his heart has been in it all year- we have had our money's worth out of him. Hegazi probably with the exception of Gayle and Barnes our player of the season. Wouldn't begrudge him leaving and with £10m release it probably will happen. As you said age and wage might put people of Gibbs.

Mears and hoolahan not really been used and too old we should have the squad fillers be from our youth. Mozza hasn't done enough but has option in favour be amazed if he didn't take it. Barry too old get rid.

If anybody is stupid enough to offer money for Livermore we should happily accept.

Field needs a season long loan if we aren't going to play him weekly. (With no Barry, johansen and possibly Harper think we have a good chance to blood him next year)

Brunt is good cover left back and can still do a job left side not a fan in cm.

HRK Like Livermore anybody offers just accept the bid. Rodriguez has done alright this years re goal return but I wouldn't be upset if he went we can get probably get better value for money else where.

Gayle we should be chasing as soon as window opens and be offering a Rondon swap.
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Offline darbolina

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2019, 06:15:24 AM »
if we can keep the defence, keep jrod, buy Gayle and completely overhaul the midfield, its possible we can build something for next year.

Looking at Stans analysis - the midfield screams out RUBBISH - and has done for years

Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2019, 06:50:55 AM »
Gayle has another 2 years left on a £40k a week contract at Newcastle we, are not in a position to offer £40k a week. There is no way on this Earth are we signing him permanently at best we might cobble together a loan deal as part of a deal that takes Rondon to Newcastle.

Newcastle still probably don't want to pay the money for Rondon and he has had a good enough season to attract bids from elsewhere which even if we could overcome the wages issue with Gayle takes away our best bargaining chip.

My view is that unless Burnley revive their interest in Jay Rod and Dawson they are both likely to remain Albion players. I just don't think Livermore is salable.

Hegazi is the one defender that might attract interest. I don't think Gibbs will.

The midfield is a mess has been for years. It is the first priority howver what it should look like is enirely determined by the way the new head coach wants to play. There is at least plenty of scope for shaping it.
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Offline darbolina

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2019, 07:03:56 AM »
we will be able to shed a lot of wages  stan if you take barry, hoolahan, mears, Burke, murphy, probably hegazi and phillips out of the equation. In fees we can easily recoup 20m between Rondon plus others.

I think we need to be much more deliberate about the rebuild though - as you say , this needs to be in a new head coachs vision. Just imagine if we'd bought in a new head coach 10 games ago to begin that assessment........

Offline Dexy

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2019, 07:33:56 AM »
Other than  Jrod ,Hegazi (and he does have a mistake in him ) and maybe Gibbs I'm not sure there will be huge amounts of interest in this squad as some feel .
Lets be honest despite some improvement in recent months there has been some really poor performances from quite a few of them most of the season.
Easier said than done but Id sooner get those that don't want to stay out the door early rather than some of the episodes from pre season last Summer.
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Offline wbarenno

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2019, 08:04:56 AM »
Rondon , Dawson , Rodriguez, Hegazi , Gibbs , Phillips and Livermore will all attract interest I think , someone will take a punt on them

Holgate , tosin , montero , johansen, Gayle , Murphy will all return to their clubs

Brunt ,Morrison , Barry , myhill , Harper , mears  and hoolahan are out of contract

That’s possibly a 20 player turnaround, going to be a long summer

Offline overseas baggie

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2019, 08:39:14 AM »
Rondon , Dawson , Rodriguez, Hegazi , Gibbs , Phillips and Livermore will all attract interest I think , someone will take a punt on them

Holgate , tosin , montero , johansen, Gayle , Murphy will all return to their clubs

Brunt ,Morrison , Barry , myhill , Harper , mears  and hoolahan are out of contract

That’s possibly a 20 player turnaround, going to be a long summer

And we need to hit the ground running - immediately.

Offline mrvulgarity

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2019, 08:51:27 AM »
I thought it might be helpful to look at our squad going into the summer which I think will probably be the most significant in over a decade. Plainly we cannot progress much without the new Head Coach being appointed and having a base shape and a pattern of play to work to is going to be vital. We simply cannot go into another season with a squad thrown together in the manner this one has been.

Stating the obvious there is going to be a massive turnover of players this summer it is simply unavoidable given the age profile of the squad (still too old) and the length of most of the contracts (most have less than 2 years to run).

I would caveat this with that I don’t think all the players that many fans assume will be sold e.g. Gibbs, Rodriguez, Dawson and Hegazi will necessarily be moved on. For one very simple reason there may not be buyers. For the most part if I were a fan of a Premier League club and those players were bought for significant fees as 1st choice players I would be disappointed.
I would preface all my comments with an understanding that the squad needs a clear 1st choice player and a spare for each position in the SHAPE the coach wants to set up as a default if a player is neither they need to move on.

Squad
Goalkeepers

Sam Johnstone age 25 contract until 2022 Young enough to improve and he must to play at Premier League level but okay at Championship level.

Jonathan Bond age 25 contract until 2020 From the little I have seen a decent back up option no hardship to leave his contract run down.

Boaz Myhill        age 36 contract until 2019 Needs to be replaced by one of the decent young keepers in the youth set up cannot be allowed to draw a pension indefinitely.

Defenders
Keiran Gibbs age 29 contract until 2021 One of the players assumed by many to be off, personally I think the combination of age wages and fees makes him an unattractive buy for most Premier League clubs.

Tyrone Mears age 36 contract until 2019 Time to retire.
 
Conor Townsend age 26 contract until 2021 Been an okay understudy to Gibbs would be okay as such next season less sanguine about him being 1st choice.

Kyle Bartley age 27 contract until 2021 Was done no favours when being played on the left of a 3 early in the season and looked terrible but has looked a lot better in the middle of the 3 will be here next season.

Craig Dawson age 28 contract until 2020 Wanted out last summer and if we were looking to sell him, I think that was the opportunity. He has had an okay season but has done very little to justify a big fee or a first team spot at a Premier League club. If I was a TD at a Premier League club, I would see how he does next season and pick him up as a free agent to fill out my squad.

Ahmed Hegazi 28 contract until 2022 The pick of our defenders still subject to a £10m release clause which is Premier League or top end of the other big 5 leagues I suspect somebody somewhere might think that’s an okay deal.

Tosin Adarabioyo age 21 contract 2019 I think there is a decent player there but still has that bambi on ice look at times. No way is he ever going to be at the level required to be a first teamer at Man City. Would I have him back? Yes, would I push the boat out to get him?  No

Mason Holgate age 22 contract until 2019 Best of the January loans. Probably a little too good for the Championship needs to mature and will only do that by playing games if not at Everton then probably good for a move to a lower half Premier League club.
 
Midfielders
Stefan Johansen age 28 contract until 2019 Has come good after a slow start although Fulham have taken up their option might still be worth looking at as a possible recruit.

Sam Field age 21 contract until 2022 Decision time is looming it is disappointing that he hasn’t been able to hold down a regular place in the team. Next season needs to the breakthrough season.

Rakeem Harper age 19 contract until 2019 The one youngster who has had a significant amount of game time this season and in truth blown hot and cold. Nevertheless, it would be disappointing if he didn’t sign a new contract this summer.

Chris Brunt age 34 contract until 2019 Not sure the experiment of him as central midfielder works but overall, we probably still better with him on the pitch than not. Can see another season

Jake Livermore age 29 contract until 2022 The nowhere man. Neither box to box midfielder or a DM or a deep sitting play maker if we could sell, I would suspect we won’t be able to

Gareth Barry age 38 contract 2019 Injured can’t play 2 games a week but has looked decent from time to time. Think he should be let go

Wes Hoolahan age 36 contract until 2019 Love Wes but let’s face it past it pity, we never saw him in his pomp

James Morrison age 32 contract until 2019 Not played anywhere near enough games to justify a new contract sad to say but I think this is the end.

Jacob Murphy age 24 contract until 2019 Newcastle’s problem and good luck with that.

Jefferson Montero age 29 contract until 2019 Not sure why we signed him sorry Swansea he is all yours.

Jonathan Leko age 20 contract until 2021 With just one year left on his contract it is decision time either he finds a place in the team or I think we will have to let him go.

Forwards
Dwight Gayle age 28 contract until 2019 Unfortunately played his last game for the club. I think he will get a move to a Premier League club I don’t think the much-heralded swap deal with Rondon will happen in the Championship, wages being the killer issue. Think he might find a spot on a Premier League squad. 

Jay Rodriguez age 29 contract until 2021 another player like Dawson who might have moved last summer has had a good season without being particularly eye catching. The significant point here is for a player that has had injury issues in the past the sheer volume of game time he has put in might dispel any lingering doubts about his fitness.

Hal Robson-Kanu age 29 contract until 2020 We’ve got Kanu Robson Kanu I don’t think you understand he has year to go and won’t be sold so we’ve got Robson Kanu.
Kyle Edwards age 21 contract until 2020 We have seen a few glimpses of his potential which is encouraging next season has to be the breakthrough year.

Loanees returning
Solomon Rondon 29 contract until 2020 Still subject to a £15m release clause has had a good year at Newcastle I think

Allan Nyom 30 contract until 2020 Spent the season in La Liga guess we will move him on

Jack Fitzwater 22 contract until 2020 Spent a season on loan at Walsall. The experience will have greatly helped his development whether he is ready to step up to a role in the Championship is a different question,

Oliver Burke 22 contract until 2022. Remains an enigma spent the 2nd half of the season on loan at Celtic started well but has drifted out of their first XI following Rodgers departure. I don’t know what we can do with this player there is talent, but no coach seems to be able to tap into it. Plainly unhappy with us but not sure who will buy him.

Kane Wilson 19 contract until 2020 Spent time with Walsall and Exeter this season and got some useful game time as with Fitzwater this a youngster we need to give a chance to next season.

We could ship out as many as 15 players. However while some turnover is inevitable I don't think it will be quite as extensive as some might think

Any reason Phillips/Edwards was omitted?

Offline Mister AT

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2019, 09:06:34 AM »
Good assessment of the squad. Was having this discussion with my mate on the way back last night.

I think Hegazi will have interest, as will Rodriguez.

Phillips I could see staying, his injury record isn't the best and if we demand a decent fee for him it could put people off.

Gibbs and Dawson will go if clubs can get them at a decent price, and with the loanees leaving with the short term contract guys, it does mean we have a bit of a rebuild on our hands.

I imagine Tulloch and a couple of the other youngsters will be looking to step into the first team.

The most important thing for the club now is to get the new manager in as soon as possible so they can hit the ground running and try to get some new faces in.

The longer the club goes without a new manager, the harder its going to be,
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2019, 09:31:24 AM »
This whole worrying issue with a squad that has no real identity, is so disjointed and dysfunctional in terms of agedness, ability, quality, flexibility, I could go on, needs a Head Coach who has no previous connections with the club, has attributes that include single mindedness, is innovative, is his own man, commands respect from players, can spot and develop young talent, is not afraid to make the tough footballing and tactical decisions no matter who it effects and will stand up to the board.

I fear such a Head Coach would never be appointed by our board. IMO the time for evolution has long past, we need revolution!
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Offline darbolina

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2019, 10:13:59 AM »
Rondon should fetch us at least 15m after a good season (Newcastle's player of the year and has a 15m buy out clause apparently).

Burke, we might get a 3m at most if we're very lucky!!!??

Hegazi I can see going and should fetch upwards of 5m.

There's a question about JRod (10m) , Dawson (5m), Phillips (8m), Gibbs (3m) who might be available too.

We'll naturally lose lots of wages.

It's not difficult to see where we could get around 20m and free up plenty of wages. The issues for me though are
1) whether Jenkins and Dowling can rebuild this squad and coaching team. They've made a right mess of this season anyway that's abundantly clear!!
2) Would 20m be enough if we need forwards and midfielders who are usually much more expensive. It should be if we had a decent recruitment policy......(back to point 1 above)



Offline Albion79

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2019, 10:42:42 AM »
It seems a given Rondon is going and i cant help but think a player like Nyom who is 30, returning after a year away doesnt really have a future with us.

I think a couple of players such as Livermore and Dawson we will probably be able to sell based on past reputation and would like them to move on.

I think Jrod will probably get interest from a lower premier league team, maybe even a Sheffield United or Derby / Villa if they got promoted (i dont think he suits Leeds)

I think Hegazi, Phillips and Gibbs will attract interest though i didnt realise Gibbs was 29! I thought he was 25! Obviously the issue with Phillips and Gibbs to an extent would be the injuries but i imagine there will be again lower premier league teams in for them, possibly even abroad.

For the likes of HRK and Nyom i would look to accept nominal fees and get them off the wage bill.

Personally out the current crop i would like to see us make attempts to keep Gibbs, Hegazi and Phillips, however they have gave us a season at this level and done well so if they want to move then good luck to them.

I would like us to make a big play for Gayle, he has pace (which we lack), scores goals and i think there is a bond with him and the fans, however as Stan said it may just be too much financially. If we cant get Gayle, similar to the three players named above i would try and get Jrod to stay, again he scores goals at this level, to lose 45 goals from your team together would be a big big loss so hopefully we can keep at least one of Jrod or Gayle.

Whatever happens i want it done and dusted in the main before preseason starts, whoever is staying and going get it done so we dont have players on strike, uncertainty.

Lets have a couple of weeks to clear the heads, confirm what type of manager we want (i would hope we have a very good idea anyway) interview them and get them announced before the end of the month.

Whoever the manager is they have to have players to suit how they want to play, i still think the biggest mistake Moore made was sticking with this group and then asking them to play a way they struggled with, lets not make that mistake again.

I hope the new manager wants young and hungry players to go with the core we will have, lets go and find the next Brunty, Mozza, Dawson, etc they are out there.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 11:04:07 AM by Albion79 »

Offline Mister AT

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2019, 10:51:45 AM »
Get Gayle in and build the team round him, simple as that.

Any championship team with Gayle in, would almost certainly make the playoffs.

He's scored 24 goals this season, missed games through injury and suspension, if he was fully fit all season he would have had 30+.

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Offline Windmill Baggy

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2019, 12:01:56 PM »
Johnstone, JROD, Phillips, Hegazi, Dawson and Gibbs are the only senior players under contract for next season that I would like to stay and see in the starting line-up next season. Of these we will only sell if we get the price we want, which will enable us to buy a good replacement for this level anyway.

JROD, Dawson and Gibbs might attract some interest but from lesser Premier clubs (Burnley, Brighton, Sheffield) but I would question whether they would want to leave anyway when they can move when their contract is up and therefore likely negotiate a bigger signing-on fee at that time. Interest in Phillips might be less due to his injury history. It wouldn't surprise me if all four playersare still here next season.

Of the loanees I would only sign Gayle, Holgate and Johansen. Fulham have taken up their option on Johansen and Holgate may find a move to a bottom half Premier side so they are likely out of the question. I could see Gayle still being signed either permanently or if not on another loan deal as part of a deal to sell Rondon to Newcastle.

Edwards, Tulloch and Rogers should play more of a part next season and could do well. On the basis off the last two games Bartley will be a good member of the squad next season also. Bond is good enough to compete for the number 1 jersey with Johnstone.

I would sell Livermore and Robson-Kanu, but am doubtful they will attract enough interest to be moved on. Morrison, Brunt and Myhill need moving on also.

Next seasons squad:

GK: Johnston, Bond

DEF: Hegazi, Dawson, Gibbs, Bartley, Townsend

MF: Phillips, Field

FW: JROD, Gayle/Rondon, Robson-Kanu, Edwards, Tulloch, Rogers

The midfield naturally needs the biggest rebuild, but overall I think we'll be in better shape come August than many are suspecting.

Offline boinging_along

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2019, 12:03:30 PM »
Rondon , Dawson , Rodriguez, Hegazi , Gibbs , Phillips and Livermore will all attract interest I think , someone will take a punt on them

Holgate , tosin , montero , johansen, Gayle , Murphy will all return to their clubs

Brunt ,Morrison , Barry , myhill , Harper , mears  and hoolahan are out of contract

That’s possibly a 20 player turnaround, going to be a long summer

Totally agree with all of that.

I'd still keep Livermore, I know he gets flack on here but he's no worse than the rest of the midfield and giving our board I just don't see us buying players who are guaranteed to be better.  I'd rather keep him, see who else we can sign, then if we don't need him we can sell in Jan or next summer.  Would be crazy to ship out players who can play at this level without knowing who we are going to replace them with.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 12:05:32 PM by boinging_along »

Offline Oldbury24

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2019, 12:15:30 PM »
Totally agree with all of that.

I'd still keep Livermore, I know he gets flack on here but he's no worse than the rest of the midfield and giving our board I just don't see us buying players who are guaranteed to be better.  I'd rather keep him, see who else we can sign, then if we don't need him we can sell in Jan or next summer.  Would be crazy to ship out players who can play at this level without knowing who we are going to replace them with.

If anybody shows ANY interest in Jake we need to snap their hands off and take the cash.  He's played for England recently so may still carry a little bit of resale from that, and we can point to him being missing from the play-offs which weakened us against the Villa (adding value by his absence).  Lets also hope they look at the goals he scored this season to get valuable wins. 

But lets hope that they haven't scouted him comprehensively this year. He is "ok" at most things but can't pass more than 10 yards forward, can't beat a man, not pacey enough to track runners coming past him (although was reasonably mobile until he hit the weights and then even lost that as he turned into the Hulk) and doesn't have the discipline to play the holding role.   

Not the worst player i have seen in the stripes, but over a season certainly one of the most ineffective.  So if we can recoup a number with six zeroes it would be good business for me.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 12:18:09 PM by Oldbury24 »

Offline baggiebof

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2019, 12:39:53 PM »
Get Gayle in and build the team round him, simple as that.

Any championship team with Gayle in, would almost certainly make the playoffs.

He's scored 24 goals this season, missed games through injury and suspension, if he was fully fit all season he would have had 30+.

This idea is a mistake. Gayle is 29 in October and is a player predicated on his finishing and pace. His finishing won't get worse but his pace is already starting to go and will continue to do so. If we then did get promoted building a team around Gayle, what would we do in the Premier League? Would he be able to keep us up with the team built around him? there is no evidence to support this.

I also dispute having a player score 20+ goals in the Championship almost certainly makes the playoffs. 9 players got more than 20 goals this season and only 5 of them finished in the top 6.

This is not to have a go at you Mister AT but this is the sort of short term thinking that gets clubs in trouble and overloaded with ineffective/injured players on big salaries. in addition to this we already have an old squad, adding a near 29 year old player to build around on big wages and for a decent fee isn't what I would like us to be doing.

Offline 17GD

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2019, 12:48:09 PM »
Personally I think Leko and Harper need to go out on loan. They've shown potential but I don't think they're up to championship yet.

We definitely need as a minimum:

2 x RBs
1 x CB
1 x LW
2 x CMs
3 x STs

If we can land a few more whilst building the team around Hegazi then I think we could do ok. But with the ones I've listed that still only brings our squad to 23.

Some players who are out of contract: (realistic)

Leroy Fer, 29 (MF) Swansea
Markus Henriksen, 26 (MF) Hull
Laurent Depoitre, 30 (ST) Huddersfield
Daniel Scwaab, 30 (CB) PSV
Nick Powell, 25 (MF) Wigan
Juanfran, 34 (RB) athletico
Danny Simpson, 32 (RB) Leicester
Pablo Martinez, 30 (CB) Strasbourg
Aron Gunnarsson, 30 (MF) Cardiff
Fraizer Campbell, 31 (ST) Hull

Offline FallOutBoy

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2019, 01:02:52 PM »
Sam Johnstone - if we get a good offer, I'd let him go. But the club will keep him.

Jonathan Bond - keep

Boaz Myhill - get rid, this time for good

Tyrone Mears - let go

Allan Nyom - let go

Kane Wilson - keep as 2nd / 3rd choice, see if he's good enough

Mason Holgate - if Everton decide to let him go, he'll have Premiership offers.

Kyle Bartley - keep

Craig Dawson - let go for what we can get

Ahmed Hegazi - keep if we can, get as much as possible if we can't

Tosin Adarabiyio - not good enough for City, may be good enough for another year

Jack Fitzwater - keep, 3rd / 4th choice, see if he's good enough

Keiran Gibbs - Keep if we can. Looking at the Premiership teams, I think he might still be here, as he'd be an expensive back-up for most.

Conor Townsend - think we can find better, but we'll keep as we have other priorities this summer than back-up left back

Stefan Johansen - depends how much Fulham want / he wants in wages, but I'd try to get him

Sam Field - keep, and actually play

Rakeem Harper - if he stays, he stays. If not, fine.

Chris Brunt - let go

Gareth Barry - let go

James Morrison - let go

We Hoolahan - let go

Jake Livermore - let go for what we can get

Jacob Murphy - heart of a flea. Let go, and don't come back

Jefferson Montero - good player gone to waste. Let go

Jonathan Leko - after last night he's on borrowed time. Needed him to make a nuisance of himself, and he failed miserably

Oliver Burke - if we get a decent offer, let him go. If not, keep him

Dwight Gayle - keep, if we can 

Jay Rodriguez - wouldn't be too disappointed if we let him go, but depends who he's replaced by

Hal Robson-Kanu - get rid

Kyle Edwards - keep, give more game time

Solomon Rondon - no way we're keeping him, but at least get the full release clause for him

Offline LiamTheBaggie

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2019, 01:04:57 PM »
Hard to comment on in-comings and out-goings without knowing who the head coach is and what the vision will be going forwards.

The club really need to develop some form of plan - this short term thinking and providing short term stop gaps is what has partly created this mess.

I would imagine that the likes of Gibbs, Rodriguez and Dawson may attract interest - hopefully from a Burnley or someone silly enough to stump up the cash.

Morrison, Barry and Brunt really need to move on.

I think our summer recruitment should focus on young, hungry players with energy. Our midfield has lacked any sort of energy this season and this has been a major stumbling block to creating any sort of vision going forwards

Gayle will not be back and nor should he on £40k a week. Those days are over.

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Offline WBArgo

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2019, 01:51:24 PM »
Personally I would sell Phillips and think we could get around £10 million for him.
As a player I think he's great and was probably the best signing Pulis made - but he is too unfit and doesn't play enough games to warrant his wages etc...

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Offline VANDERLEI

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2019, 01:52:46 PM »
Selling Phillips would be a disaster.

Offline Atomic

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2019, 02:15:43 PM »
Hard to comment on in-comings and out-goings without knowing who the head coach is and what the vision will be going forwards.

The club really need to develop some form of plan - this short term thinking and providing short term stop gaps is what has partly created this mess.

I would imagine that the likes of Gibbs, Rodriguez and Dawson may attract interest - hopefully from a Burnley or someone silly enough to stump up the cash.

Morrison, Barry and Brunt really need to move on.

I think our summer recruitment should focus on young, hungry players with energy. Our midfield has lacked any sort of energy this season and this has been a major stumbling block to creating any sort of vision going forwards

Gayle will not be back and nor should he on £40k a week. Those days are over.


This.

I hope we don't take forever getting the new head coach in, we need to get him in first then bring in players to play the way he wants to play. We can't be having another season like this one where we keep chopping and changing the way we play because we don't know what suits us best.

Offline Dan87uk

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2019, 02:22:31 PM »
Returning to Parent Club

Gayle, Holgate, Johansen. Montero, Murphy & Tosin

Out of these we'll miss Gayle, Holgate & Johansen. If we could somehow hold on to any of those 3 then great news. Wages for all of them could be a big stumbling block on top of any transfer fee's though. The other 3 were a waste of space so no loss there.

Returning to The Albion

Burke from Celtic - by all accounts (and apparently according to Lennon himself) he is "S***" and after an ok start up north he really faded big time. Biggest waste of money the club has ever spent, time to cut our losses and get rid to whoever will stump up any money at all for him.

Fitzwater from Walsall - Still young, still learning, depends on defensive outgoings on if he stays in squad or gets shipped back out on loan

Howkins from Port Vale - as above

Nyom from Leganes - forgotten man. Most fans won't want to keep him but with Holgate leaving he'll be back in the frame for next season, wouldn't be surprised to see him starting the first game in August.

Rondon from Newcastle - we will surely sell him as he won't want to stay, possible leverage for Gayle...

Wilson from Exeter - Same as Fitzwater really

Out of Contract:
Barry, Brunt, Harper, Hoolahan, Mears, Morrison & Myhill.

Pretty sure Brunt has a year in his favour rather than club's favour? so it's upto him I guess... I'd be inclined to suggest he moves on now though. Same for Mozza. Barry didn't play enough games to activate his contract (he was 1 or 2 short I think?)  and would look to let him go as well.  Don't mind any of the 3 of them being involved in some way with the club moving forward like coaching roles etc but they should no longer be in the squad.

Myhill... time to say goodbye, you've sat on the bench getting an easy ride for too many years now. Best to keep Bond and promote youth as the 3rd keeper.

Mears & Hoolahan "did a job" when called upon but wouldn't want to keep either of them.

Letting all if not most of the above will free up quite a big wedge of the wage bill i'd imagine as well.

As for Harper, If the rumours and hearsay are to be believed he had a bit of a paddy regarding contract talks. I won't judge the guy however though until we know more or find out what is going on with his contract situation and/or confirm/deny said rumours. He looks like he could be a real asset as logn as he keeps putting in the effort. People also need to remember he's still only young. I think they forget sometimes due to his stature.

Remaining 18/19 Squad

Goalkeepers

Johnstone - Played well last couple of games but has been poor/unconvincing most of the season, hopefully improves

Bond - should have got more starts this season with Johntsone's general poor form. Will be good to keep him.

Defenders

Bartley - Played ok last couple of games, but has quite easily earned the "calamity Kyle" moniker.. sadly here to stay

Dawson - Will want to move on but don't think he'll get the interest he thinks he will unless Burnley come back

Gibbs - Prem team will be keeping tabs on him, probably on high wages and Jenkins jump at the chance to shift him unfortunately

Hegazi - Immense and easily our best defender... sadly can see a prem team coming in for him, hope we can hold on to him though

Townsend - Was adequate cover this season, but likely to be in the first team more with Gibbs likely to move on

Midfielders

Field - Should be in the first team more next season, give the guy a run of games and he'll do the job for us

Livermore - Steady eddy, Nailed on for Captain next season (Bartley will be VC) if Brunt leaves/retires. Needs to lose some muscle bulk though to be a bit more agile.

Phillips - Could go I suppose as he has quality for sure but he's very injury prone and struggles to get upto match fitness levels. May affect his selling value vs what the club think they can get for him

Forwards

Robson-Kanu - I just don't think you understand.... Please leave

Rodriguez - Age now creeping up on him so will affect his value, Burnley probably the only team who will come calling for him

Youth (Made at least 1 app)
Edwards - Could do the job for us if given games. Scored a great goal against Brentford

Leko - Headless chicken despite being in and around th squad for 2 seasons now

Rogers - very young, may just be on the fringes for next season depending on signing but may benefit with a loan spell. If we can develop him correctly then he could be a real asset moving forward

Tulloch - seemed like he carried a threat in the cup but not featured since.


Assuming we do let go all/most of the people out of contract then a big rebuild in most areas is needed, midfield in particular! think we'll need at least 2 more strikers too.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 11:42:36 PM by Dan87uk »
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Offline Mister AT

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2019, 02:35:59 PM »
In an ideal world, we would get most our business done as soon as possible, but we all know it doesn't work like that.

We are going to have to shift some players out before we get anyone in, and I cant see many of our first teamers being brought early in the window, majority of them will be with us until couple weeks before next season or until some teams start to panic and pay the prices, which will massively effect how we approach next year.

The first signing has to be made early and it HAS to be the appointment of the new manager.

But as others have said, I don't have a lot of faith in Lai, Jenkins and Dowling to pick the right man.
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Offline WBArgo

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2019, 02:45:49 PM »
Selling Phillips would be a disaster.

I don't think it would be, he's too injury prone I'm afraid.
Obviously if he can stay fit and play consistently then he's one of our best players, but the problem is that he's never been fully fit. Even when he returns it takes a good 3 games for him to get going again.
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Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2019, 10:02:39 PM »
Returning to Parent Club

Gayle, Holgate, Johansen. Montero, Murphy & Tosin

Out of these we'll miss Gayle, Holgate & Johansen. If we could somehow hold on to any of those 3 then great news. Wages for all of them could be a big stumbling block on top of any transfer fee's though. The other 3 were a waste of space so no loss there.

Returning to The Albion

Burke from Celtic - by all accounts (and apparently according to Lennon himself) he is "S***" and after an ok start up north he really faded big time. Biggest waste of money the club has ever spent, time to cut our losses and get rid to whoever will stump up any money at all for him.

Fitzwater from Walsall - Still young, still learning, depends on defensive outgoings on if he stays in squad or gets shipped back out on loan

Howkins from Port Vale - as above

Nyom from Leganes - forgotten man. Most fans won't want to keep him but with Holgate leaving he'll be back in the frame for next season, wouldn't be surprised to see him starting the first game in August.

Rondon from Newcastle - we will surely sell him as he won't want to stay, possible leverage for Gayle...

Wilson from Exeter - Same as Fitzwater really

Out of Contract:
Barry, Brunt, Harper, Hoolahan, Mears, Morrison & Myhill.

Pretty sure Brunt has a year in his favour rather than club's favour? so it's upto him I guess... I'd be inclined to suggest he moves on now though. Same for Mozza. Barry didn't play enough games to activate his contract (he was 1 or 2 short I think?)  and would look to let him go as well.  Don't mind any of the 3 of them being involved in some way with the club moving forward like coaching roles etc but they should no longer be in the squad.

Myhill... time to say goodbye, you've sat on the bench getting an easy ride for too many years now. Best to keep Bond and promote youth as the 3rd keeper.

Mears & Hoolahan "did a job" when called upon but wouldn't want to keep either of them.

Letting all if not most of the above will free up quite a big wedge of the wage bill i'd imagine as well.

As for Harper, If the rumours and hearsay are to be believed he had a bit of a paddy regarding contract talks. I won't judge the guy however though until we know more or find out what is going on with his contract situation and/or confirm/deny said rumours. He looks like he could be a real asset as logn as he keeps putting in the effort. People also need to remember he's still only young. I think they forget sometimes due to his stature.

Remaining 18/19 Squad

Goalkeepers

Johnstone - Played well last couple of games but has been poor/unconvincing most of the season, hopefully improves

Bond - should have got more starts this season with Johntsone's general poor form. Will be good to keep him.

Defenders

Bartley - Played ok last couple of games, but has quite easily earned the "calamity Kyle" moniker.. sadly here to stay

Dawson - Will want to move on but don't think he'll get the interest he thinks he will unless Burnley come back

Gibbs - Prem team will be keeping tabs on him, probably on high wages and Jenkins jump at the chance to shift him unfortunately

Hegazi - Immense and easily our best defender... sadly can see a prem team coming in for him, hope we can hold on to him though

Townsend - Was adequate cover this season, but likely to be in the first team more with Gibbs likely to move on

Midfielders

Field - Should be in the first team more next season, give the guy a run of games and he'll do the job for us

Livermore - Steady eddy, Nailed on for Captain next season (Bartley will be VC) if Brunt leaves/retires. Needs to lose some muscle bulk though to be a bit more agile.

Forwards

Robson-Kanu - I just don't think you understand.... Please leave

Rodriguez - Age now creeping up on him so will affect his value, Burnley probably the only team who will come calling for him

Youth (Made at least 1 app)
Edwards - Could do the job for us if given games. Scored a great goal against Brentford

Leko - Headless chicken despite being in and around th squad for 2 seasons now

Rogers - very young, may just be on the fringes for next season depending on signing but may benefit with a loan spell. If we can develop him correctly then he could be a real asset moving forward

Tulloch - seemed like he carried a threat in the cup but not featured since.


Assuming we do let go all/most of the people out of contract then a big rebuild in most areas is needed, midfield in particular! think we'll need at least 2 more strikers too.


Appreciate the effort that must have gone into such a long post but your description of Jake Livermore and his future prospects is where I stopped reading. I'm not sure I'm allowed to say clueless but that's what Jake is  ;)
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Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2019, 10:09:27 PM »
Any reason Phillips/Edwards was omitted?

Oversight on my part

Phillips age 28 contract to 2020. Mixed season not untypical of every season for the player some good form followed by  a period of injury and a slow return to form. This pattern is well established and will not get better with age. Would be tempted to cash in here.


Edwards age 21 contract to not known. Has had a few useful appearances I would hope for a bigger contribution from him next season

Frankly I would be looking for Edwards to replace Phillips
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Offline BalisPen

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2019, 10:16:46 PM »
Oversight on my part

Phillips age 28 contract to 2020. Mixed season not untypical of every season for the player some good form followed by  a period of injury and a slow return to form. This pattern is well established and will not get better with age. Would be tempted to cash in here.


Edwards age 21 contract to not known. Has had a few useful appearances I would hope for a bigger contribution from him next season

Frankly I would be looking for Edwards to replace Phillips

Tempted.

I'd rip off the arm of anybody offering the reported £15m Cardiff were said to have bid for him.

Hell, I'd take half that.

Just cannot rely on him. Great on his day, but his days few and far between.

It was a sad sight seeing Neil fing Taylor out sprint him time and again in the first game.

Offline iwastherein68

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2019, 10:25:25 PM »
Tempted.

I'd rip off the arm of anybody offering the reported £15m Cardiff were said to have bid for him.

Hell, I'd take half that.

Just cannot rely on him. Great on his day, but his days few and far between.

It was a sad sight seeing Neil fing Taylor out sprint him time and again in the first game.
I would encourage the sale of Phillips, he is unreliable in terms of fitness and after a spell out takes to long to get back into form. Characteristics which will only get worse as he gets older. To be honest I have no great desire to keep any of our senior players, lets have a clear out.
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Offline overseas baggie

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2019, 10:48:03 PM »
I would encourage the sale of Phillips, he is unreliable in terms of fitness and after a spell out takes to long to get back into form. Characteristics which will only get worse as he gets older. To be honest I have no great desire to keep any of our senior players, lets have a clear out.

We have to get the average age down to around 22-24, and sign players with resale value.  A couple of older heads in there is fine.

Offline Dan87uk

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2019, 11:45:19 PM »

Appreciate the effort that must have gone into such a long post but your description of Jake Livermore and his future prospects is where I stopped reading. I'm not sure I'm allowed to say clueless but that's what Jake is  ;)

I don't particularly want him as captain, but he's already been handed the armband several times this season when Brunt isn't on the pitch - hence the nailed on comment - still a better option than having captain calamity Bartley.

Unsure why you think what I said would be incorrect? He is a steady eddy.... will give you a metronome 5 or 6 out of 10 most games as a minimum - granted, very rarely going above that.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 11:58:51 PM by Dan87uk »
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Offline alex1

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #33 on: May 16, 2019, 12:30:42 AM »
Its all very well saying let's have a mass clearout, but that suggests there are adequate replacements out there all dying to come in and get a chance at the Albion. The players who will be eager to come in, will be bogstandard Championship or rejects from Prem clubs looking for a last payday.  We might be lucky and find the odd gem amongst them, but generally I can't see us finding better quality. We still have a reputation as a recent Prem club, which no doubt attracted the likes of Gibbs, Phillips, J-Rod, Gayle etc. , but letting them go certainly doesn't guarentee we'll do better.

At the same time we have to face the fact we are now on a reduced budget from where we were a year ago. So pure economics forces us to make savings. But we must try to hold on to as many quality players as we can, because I don't think we'll have the same attraction as we used to have.  I hope we make every effort to keep Gayle, even if it is on loan, because he likes it here and goals are golddust. 
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Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #34 on: May 16, 2019, 02:15:05 AM »
I don't particularly want him as captain, but he's already been handed the armband several times this season when Brunt isn't on the pitch - hence the nailed on comment - still a better option than having captain calamity Bartley.

Unsure why you think what I said would be incorrect? He is a steady eddy.... will give you a metronome 5 or 6 out of 10 most games as a minimum - granted, very rarely going above that.


Hint, it wasn't Livermore I was calling clueless  ;) :-X


For what it's worth 3 or 4 out of 10 at best. England international central midfielder who can't play on the half turn.
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Offline Dan87uk

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #35 on: May 16, 2019, 08:47:37 AM »

Hint, it wasn't Livermore I was calling clueless  ;) :-X


For what it's worth 3 or 4 out of 10 at best. England international central midfielder who can't play on the half turn.

Yes Jacko, I'm quite aware who you were referring to.

I'm still yet to see what you have to offer in defence of this view besides "I don't like Livermore" which you've made quite clear in the past on several occasions... I already noted he needs to lose some of the ridiculous bulk he's got in order to become more agile i.e. "on the half turn" as you put it which would make him more effective than he is now and most of my observations are based on what I think the club might do.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 09:03:33 AM by Dan87uk »
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Offline darbolina

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #36 on: May 16, 2019, 09:26:18 AM »
As others have said Tosin actually looked decent as a defensive, holding midfielder - a bit like Carlton Palmer but Tosin can pass too. I'd go for him as he's a versatile option and will develop I think into a decent player.

I'd keep Brunt in the squad (versatile and experienced good character) but I'd get rid of Livermore. I think we can spend his wages on more progressive midfielders plus we may get a few milllion for him?

Getting the balance right in midfield is critical if we're ever going to develop into a better team. We need to shed defensive minded midfielders and replace them with players who are forward thinking and like to play/ pass/ move. Gera and Koren weren't big but could do a bit of everything (Koren wasn't a tackler but wasn't shy) and they could really play. These are the kinds of players we desperately need now in midfield.

Offline tuamigos

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #37 on: May 17, 2019, 12:09:40 PM »
The most concerning factor regarding this years squad was that the better players weren't ours!
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Offline WBAinDEVON

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #38 on: May 17, 2019, 12:20:14 PM »
Blown promotion for years, most likely go down before we go back up
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Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #39 on: May 17, 2019, 08:34:42 PM »
Amended the list following the earlier announcements and stripped out the loanees

Squad
Goalkeepers

Sam Johnstone age 25 contract until 2022 Young enough to improve and he must to play at Premier League level but okay at Championship level.

Jonathan Bond age 25 contract until 2020 From the little I have seen a decent back up option no hardship to leave his contract run down.

Defenders
Keiran Gibbs age 29 contract until 2021 One of the players assumed by many to be off, personally I think the combination of age wages and fees makes him an unattractive buy for most Premier League clubs.
 
Conor Townsend age 26 contract until 2021 Been an okay understudy to Gibbs would be okay as such next season less sanguine about him being 1st choice.

Kyle Bartley age 27 contract until 2021 Was done no favours when being played on the left of a 3 early in the season and looked terrible but has looked a lot better in the middle of the 3 will be here next season.

Craig Dawson age 28 contract until 2020 Wanted out last summer and if we were looking to sell him, I think that was the opportunity. He has had an okay season but has done very little to justify a big fee or a first team spot at a Premier League club. If I was a TD at a Premier League club, I would see how he does next season and pick him up as a free agent to fill out my squad.

Ahmed Hegazi 28 contract until 2022 The pick of our defenders still subject to a £10m release clause which is Premier League or top end of the other big 5 leagues I suspect somebody somewhere might think that’s an okay deal.
 
Midfielders

Sam Field age 21 contract until 2022 Decision time is looming it is disappointing that he hasn’t been able to hold down a regular place in the team. Next season needs to the breakthrough season.

Rakeem Harper age 19 contract until 2019 The one youngster who has had a significant amount of game time this season and in truth blown hot and cold. Nevertheless, it would be disappointing if he didn’t sign a new contract this summer.

Chris Brunt age 34 contract until 2019 Not sure the experiment of him as central midfielder works but overall, we probably still better with him on the pitch than not. Can see another season

Jake Livermore age 29 contract until 2022 The nowhere man. Neither box to box midfielder or a DM or a deep sitting play maker if we could sell, I would suspect we won’t be able to

Jonathan Leko age 20 contract until 2021 With just one year left on his contract it is decision time either he finds a place in the team or I think we will have to let him go.

Phillips age 28 contract to 2020. Mixed season not untypical of every season for the player some good form followed by  a period of injury and a slow return to form. This pattern is well established and will not get better with age. Would be tempted to cash in here.

Edwards age 21 contract to not known. Has had a few useful appearances I would hope for a bigger contribution from him next season

Forwards

Jay Rodriguez age 29 contract until 2021 another player like Dawson who might have moved last summer has had a good season without being particularly eye catching. The significant point here is for a player that has had injury issues in the past the sheer volume of game time he has put in might dispel any lingering doubts about his fitness.

Hal Robson-Kanu age 29 contract until 2020 We’ve got Kanu Robson Kanu I don’t think you understand he has year to go and won’t be sold so we’ve got Robson Kanu.


Loanees returning

Solomon Rondon 29 contract until 2020 Still subject to a £15m release clause has had a good year at Newcastle I think

Allan Nyom 30 contract until 2020 Spent the season in La Liga guess we will move him on

Jack Fitzwater 22 contract until 2020 Spent a season on loan at Walsall. The experience will have greatly helped his development whether he is ready to step up to a role in the Championship is a different question,

Oliver Burke 22 contract until 2022. Remains an enigma spent the 2nd half of the season on loan at Celtic started well but has drifted out of their first XI following Rodgers departure. I don’t know what we can do with this player there is talent, but no coach seems to be able to tap into it. Plainly unhappy with us but not sure who will buy him.

Kane Wilson 19 contract until 2020 Spent time with Walsall and Exeter this season and got some useful game time as with Fitzwater this a youngster we need to give a chance to next season.

Assuming a Hughton 4-2-3-1

We need  2 RB's 2LB's  4 CB's 4 DM/CM's 2 RW 2 LW 2 AM's 3 CF's

As of today we are short of 2 RB's 2 DM/CM 2 LW's 2 AM's 1 CF

That without anything else is going to be a busy summer.

The only area we seem well stocked is RW and Centre Back






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Offline MarkW

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2019, 09:18:08 AM »
If you feel we should keep and play Kane Wilson, we only need 1 RB, no?

It's going to be a big overhaul, but could be exciting
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Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2019, 09:27:14 AM »
If you feel we should keep and play Kane Wilson, we only need 1 RB, no?

It's going to be a big overhaul, but could be exciting

Sorry overlooked Kane Wilson. At 19 it's a bit of judgement call a lot will depend on how he has developed this season and he is of the age where even a few months can see a significant improvement. Personally where we have a decent academy graduate I would favour pushing them into the squad rather recruiting a journeyman pro as a back up. So on balance maybe 1 RB.

Even assuming that every senior pro that might leave won't we are up to the point where we are going to recruit nearly a whole new team or at the very least assimulate a lot of youngsters into the first team squad. I think it will be a very different squad to the one that finished the season.



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Offline baggie96

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2019, 09:39:16 AM »
Thought Jrod and Gibbs only had 12 months left on contract so pleasantly surprised they’ve still got 2 years. Would be tempted to keep them both to be honest. Sell the guys with 12 months on contract and try to shift Livermore and Burke.

Rondon - 16.5m
Phillips - 10m
Dawson - 8m
Nyom - 1m
Burke - 5m
Livermore - 8m
Total would be 48.5m - spend the majority of it on younger players. Would still be saving money as those being sold will be on huge wages. Still leaves you a strong core;

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Jrod


Offline Atomic

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2019, 09:40:21 AM »
From what I've seen of Kane Wilson he's always seemed pretty immobile, even maybe a little bit chubby. Never looked likely to become  a top Championship / Premier League right back to me.

Kyle Howkins is another one. If anyone thinks Livermore is slow on the turn you want to see this lad. Pleasingly he's been released.

Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #44 on: May 18, 2019, 09:51:12 AM »
Thought Jrod and Gibbs only had 12 months left on contract so pleasantly surprised they’ve still got 2 years. Would be tempted to keep them both to be honest. Sell the guys with 12 months on contract and try to shift Livermore and Burke.

Rondon - 16.5m
Phillips - 10m
Dawson - 8m
Nyom - 1m
Burke - 5m
Livermore - 8m
Total would be 48.5m - spend the majority of it on younger players. Would still be saving money as those being sold will be on huge wages. Still leaves you a strong core;

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I don't disagree with the sentiment but I think some of the fees are a little optimistic. Particularly Burke and Livermore. If I were in the market for a Centre Back this summer and had a budget around the £10m mark I would trigger Hegazi's release clause rather than spend £8m on Dawson.
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Offline Scooby Doo

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #45 on: May 19, 2019, 09:34:05 AM »
The last time this club had an upheaval in terms of playing squad it was nothing short of a disaster and was overseen by Alan Irvine. We need to appoint someone with transfer nous who can oversee a big change in this playing squad. That is key.

Joleon Lescott
Craig Gardner
Chris Baird
Sebastien Pocognoli
Ideye Brown
Cristian Gamboa
Jason Davidson
Georgios Samaras
Sebastian Blanco

That window was a total disaster and we never really recovered in my opinion.

Offline frazzle

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #46 on: May 19, 2019, 10:19:36 AM »
The last time this club had an upheaval in terms of playing squad it was nothing short of a disaster and was overseen by Alan Irvine. We need to appoint someone with transfer nous who can oversee a big change in this playing squad. That is key.

Joleon Lescott
Craig Gardner
Chris Baird
Sebastien Pocognoli
Ideye Brown
Cristian Gamboa
Jason Davidson
Georgios Samaras
Sebastian Blanco

That window was a total disaster and we never really recovered in my opinion.

That is a list of abject failure isn’t it. Maybe Lescott could be seen as decent but the rest were a complete nightmare. I remember there was also Varela who I thought looked really good but he was immediately thrown out by Pulis if I remember.

Offline Scooby Doo

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #47 on: May 19, 2019, 10:38:35 AM »
That is a list of abject failure isn’t it. Maybe Lescott could be seen as decent but the rest were a complete nightmare. I remember there was also Varela who I thought looked really good but he was immediately thrown out by Pulis if I remember.

Another window like that and we could be right down the creek. My problem with his Hughton is that he had one good window after achieving promotion. He signed Gross and Ryan who proved to be instrumental to them staying up. The two seasons that followed he spent quite a lot of money on rubbish.

Offline johnny Cash

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #48 on: May 19, 2019, 11:29:58 AM »
The squad lists / loans returning are also missing Dara O’shea. Seems to have had a decent season from the little I’ve read.

Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #49 on: May 19, 2019, 11:48:06 AM »
The last time this club had an upheaval in terms of playing squad it was nothing short of a disaster and was overseen by Alan Irvine. We need to appoint someone with transfer nous who can oversee a big change in this playing squad. That is key.

Joleon Lescott
Craig Gardner
Chris Baird
Sebastien Pocognoli
Ideye Brown
Cristian Gamboa
Jason Davidson
Georgios Samaras
Sebastian Blanco

That window was a total disaster and we never really recovered in my opinion.

Whatever the merits or demerits of the indivduals it was just badly thought through. Every mistake a club could make we made bad scouting, recruiting duplicates or players completely incompatable with the Head Coaches style of play and then changing the coach half way through the season and therefore creating an even bigger disconect between style and squad.


Another window like that and we could be right down the creek. My problem with his Hughton is that he had one good window after achieving promotion. He signed Gross and Ryan who proved to be instrumental to them staying up. The two seasons that followed he spent quite a lot of money on rubbish.

How much influence Hughton has had on recent windows at is debatable in point of fact there seems to be a a disconnect between Brighton's recruitment and Hughton's style. It almost looks like Brighton have been trying to tool up for a different style which Hughton has either been unwilling or unable to deliver.

Whatever the procees whoever has the final say it is critical that the squad is built to meet the Coach's style.


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Offline cads_ap_albion

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #50 on: May 19, 2019, 12:19:13 PM »
The squad lists / loans returning are also missing Dara O’shea. Seems to have had a decent season from the little I’ve read.

Thought I saw him under contract extended
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Offline Droitwich Baggie

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #51 on: May 19, 2019, 02:49:30 PM »
We need a strike force of at least 3 oln the field.
We were almost unstoppable at the beginning of last season because the opposition couldn't really know where and from whom the next shot was coming.

Offline Atomic

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #52 on: May 19, 2019, 02:57:45 PM »
We need a strike force of at least 3 oln the field.
We were almost unstoppable at the beginning of last season because the opposition couldn't really know where and from whom the next shot was coming.


You're sort of right. You need goals in a team. It doesn't matter if you play slick football or not, you need defenders that will defend and then goals from as many areas of the pitch as possible. That's one thing we lacked last season a midfielder who would get double figure goals.

Without Rodriguez and Gayle we drip fed goals. Rather than 45 goals between two strikers I'd rather have 30 between the strikers and ten each from a midfielder / wide man for example. More difficult for teams to defend when goals are spread over the pitch.

For that reason I'd love to sign someone like Bradley Dack, he'd get you double figure goals from a midfield role.

Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #53 on: May 19, 2019, 05:42:31 PM »

You're sort of right. You need goals in a team. It doesn't matter if you play slick football or not, you need defenders that will defend and then goals from as many areas of the pitch as possible. That's one thing we lacked last season a midfielder who would get double figure goals.

Without Rodriguez and Gayle we drip fed goals. Rather than 45 goals between two strikers I'd rather have 30 between the strikers and ten each from a midfielder / wide man for example. More difficult for teams to defend when goals are spread over the pitch.

For that reason I'd love to sign someone like Bradley Dack, he'd get you double figure goals from a midfield role.


Agree with what you're saying though Dack plays up front with Graham usually.
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Offline cads_ap_albion

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #54 on: May 19, 2019, 10:45:59 PM »
Nice one Cyrille, nice one son

Offline baggie96

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #55 on: May 19, 2019, 11:25:45 PM »
Bit of uproar on twitter re the Gayle news, people don’t seem to be able to grasp that just because we’re not splashing out 55k/week and swapping one of our most valuable assets(rondon) for him that we will be in trouble next year. There is a mid ground, just like in 2007 where we buy younger and cheaper players. Downing has even hinted at this. Also bare in mind dowling only joined in September so last summer has nothing to do with him. In January we bought in loans to top up the squad, everyone thought it was good business at the time.

Now is a time to trust in them, if they mess it up they will pay with their jobs. Hopefully we are looking abroad as that is where the value is, however there are plenty of players in leagues 1+2 that are good enough. Hopefully as well our academy will be used more, youngsters can only prove themselves if they are given game time.

Offline gazberg

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #56 on: May 19, 2019, 11:42:43 PM »
Well let's hope we sign those good league 1+2 players then as we can't afford any more Conor Townsend types

Offline Standaman

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #57 on: May 20, 2019, 01:00:54 AM »
Some of the comment I have seen on twitter on Gayle is beyond dumb and some of it has come from people that I had thought reasonably sensible, honestly what part of "we cannot afford £55k a week in the Championship" do people not understand?  Other comment about Jay Rod obviously wanting out as a consequence or imaginary trades involving Jay Rod and HRK etc... hit the same wall of reality i.e. unless someone bids for either player then the player and their wages will be at the club next season.

We cannot trade our most valuable asset and 2 other players to keep one (29 year old) striker who may not even fit the style of play that the new Head Coach wants to play. 
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Offline 17GD

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #58 on: May 20, 2019, 01:53:23 AM »
Reading on other threads about players wages and think it's worth reminding that the players wages were cut in half when we got relegated. So i doubt players were on 40/50/60k a week this season. More like 15-25k. Gayle may have been, but not the rest of the squad.

With that in mind, I don't see why we wouldn't attract some top end championship players for 25k a week. That and the prospect of challenging for promotion again next season.

And with regards wages, some fans need to remember that top wages don't necessarily equal top players. See Sturridge and Gregorz for example. And who's to say if Gayle did sign for us that he would have had another good season? He needs the right players around him to score and create chances, and IF we can't sign the right quality players, he won't get the service/support he needs.

We have one of the highest wage bills in the league, so I'm sure we could tempt a few decent players away from their clubs. Getting the right manager in soon will be the key, before all the decent released players are snapped up.

Offline darbolina

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #59 on: May 20, 2019, 08:52:49 AM »
Dowling's article a couple of days ago pointed to the Gayle decision. He says he wants to help rebuild the team with energy and youth. Let's see if that also involves sufficient quality to win enough matches to challenge?

This summer should be Dowlings and Jenkins final chance to stamp their character on the squad. I imagine Jenkins is focused on costs and the Gayle decision is sensible from that perspective. From a football perspective, how Dowling operates, firstly appointing a head coach then helping that man rebuild the whole squad with energy, youth (and hopefully quality) will determine whether these two go down as complete failures or not.

Other clubs have found success by building a team instead of relying on individuals. We used to build teams this way until Pulis. Lets see what happens this summer? I have a feeling there won't be much goodwill or patience left if we're focused on costs at the expense of rebuilding with quality and having a real push!?

Offline Dan

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #60 on: May 20, 2019, 09:41:05 AM »
I believe i'm right in saying we've only signed 2 players permanently since 2014 who were under 25 (Oliver Burke and Callum McManaman who never played for us anyway).

That is one of the reasons the squad has got in the state it is, buying players in their prime not only costs a lot more in wages its meant the squad never was really regenerated, its always been an old squad ticking over. For about 3 years its been a desperate situation for us to address this but we never have. It doesn't have to be a squad of 20 year olds, but there should at least be a mix - something we've sorely lacked in our transfer policy.

Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #61 on: May 20, 2019, 09:44:35 AM »
Sadly, for all those people who said that they didn't want us to go up, it will now come home to roost just how costly missing out on promotion will be for us. Fully expect to see us dismantle the current squad with the likes of Dawson, Hegazi, Gibbs, Harper and J-Rod all moving on, allied with all the loans that have now returned to their clubs, which will leave us with a starting XI boasting the likes of Bartley and Townsend together with the budget signings we make of a similar, poor, standard.

We are in for a fallow few years, chaps.

Offline Atomic

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #62 on: May 20, 2019, 09:52:02 AM »
Sadly, for all those people who said that they didn't want us to go up, it will now come home to roost just how costly missing out on promotion will be for us. Fully expect to see us dismantle the current squad with the likes of Dawson, Hegazi, Gibbs, Harper and J-Rod all moving on, allied with all the loans that have now returned to their clubs, which will leave us with a starting XI boasting the likes of Bartley and Townsend together with the budget signings we make of a similar, poor, standard.

We are in for a fallow few years, chaps.


Those you've quoted as likely to move on got us relegated and failed to get us up again. Have you not realised they are not all that great anyway?

(Except Hegazi).

Offline darbolina

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #63 on: May 20, 2019, 09:56:26 AM »
I'm not so sure Fritzl, the same players many of us (me included) thought were good enough to stay up and get up this year simply weren't.

Time to move on for all concerned. Let's try to get as much money as we can and buy midfielders who pass and move, defenders who can  play a bit more and overall players who seem to want to play here and together. It was no secret many of those we're now going to get rid of didn't really want to stay last summer anyway which might have helped us to finish the season in the championship again?

I'm actually hoping that we can finally be decisive and rebuild with intent instead of treading water with this squad as we have for a few years. The big problem for me is the board who've shown time and again that they struggling to make the right decisions.............hopefully they'll eventually get one right!! Law of averages and all that!
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 10:07:05 AM by darbolina »

Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #64 on: May 20, 2019, 10:12:00 AM »

Those you've quoted as likely to move on got us relegated and failed to get us up again. Have you not realised they are not all that great anyway?

(Except Hegazi).

If you think we have a better chance of getting promoted this season without Dawson, Hegazi and Gibbs at the back, you will be in for a rude awakening when the season kicks off. We failed to appoint a manager this season and still finished fourth with the squad we had, imagine if we had an actual manager in charge for the duration.

Offline Atomic

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #65 on: May 20, 2019, 10:15:18 AM »
If you think we have a better chance of getting promoted this season without Dawson, Hegazi and Gibbs at the back, you will be in for a rude awakening when the season kicks off. We failed to appoint a manager this season and still finished fourth with the squad we had, imagine if we had an actual manager in charge for the duration.


Nothing to say we'd have finished any higher than we did.

Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #66 on: May 20, 2019, 10:20:20 AM »

Nothing to say we'd have finished any higher than we did.

Nothing to say we wouldn't...


Offline Mr Cynical

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #67 on: May 20, 2019, 10:56:01 AM »
The last time this club had an upheaval in terms of playing squad it was nothing short of a disaster and was overseen by Alan Irvine. We need to appoint someone with transfer nous who can oversee a big change in this playing squad. That is key.

Joleon Lescott
Craig Gardner
Chris Baird
Sebastien Pocognoli
Ideye Brown
Cristian Gamboa
Jason Davidson
Georgios Samaras
Sebastian Blanco

That window was a total disaster and we never really recovered in my opinion.

Was this the summer that Peace took a step back and let Jenkins have the reigns?  A short-lived experiment.  I'm getting deja vu, but without the security blanket of Peace (wanting to sell a PL club).

Offline gazberg

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #68 on: May 20, 2019, 12:43:33 PM »
To not appointment a proper manager for over 12 months straight is the 2nd costliest mistake after extending Pulis contract.

Offline SirTonyM

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #69 on: May 20, 2019, 02:11:46 PM »
Patience is not a word used in football anymore but if people genuinely want an overhaul of playing staff / manager etc it will take time. Norwich and Sheff Utd had
to be patient (but shows what decent coaching can do). It may well get worse before it gets better. The disaster that was the Pulis and Pardew season is not coming home to roost...

Offline OldburyWBA

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #70 on: May 20, 2019, 03:24:29 PM »
Patience is not a word used in football anymore but if people genuinely want an overhaul of playing staff / manager etc it will take time. Norwich and Sheff Utd had
to be patient (but shows what decent coaching can do). It may well get worse before it gets better. The disaster that was the Pulis and Pardew season is not coming home to roost...

I think we're still reeling from the likes of Irvine, Pulis was brought in to do a job which he did but then stayed 12 months too long, when he went we were back to where we were when he came and needing another Pulis type, instead we got Pardew. We had a chance once Pulis had cleared a few out to move on but we went back to the same old of rewarding the old guard instead of clearing out and starting again. We were banking on going up and to be honest despite the lack of experience in the dugout were not far away which makes you think if we had made plans to replace Moore when we did we could have had that extra bit to go up and also used the January window a bit better bringing in another striker instead of Montero who was a waste of a signing could have made the difference having that option off the bench at times.
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Offline paulosull

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #71 on: May 20, 2019, 05:08:04 PM »
Bit of uproar on twitter re the Gayle news, people don’t seem to be able to grasp that just because we’re not splashing out 55k/week and swapping one of our most valuable assets(rondon) for him that we will be in trouble next year. There is a mid ground, just like in 2007 where we buy younger and cheaper players. Downing has even hinted at this. Also bare in mind dowling only joined in September so last summer has nothing to do with him. In January we bought in loans to top up the squad, everyone thought it was good business at the time.

Now is a time to trust in them, if they mess it up they will pay with their jobs. Hopefully we are looking abroad as that is where the value is, however there are plenty of players in leagues 1+2 that are good enough. Hopefully as well our academy will be used more, youngsters can only prove themselves if they are given game time.
terrible business in January transfer window by Dowling and his recruitment team Holgate the only plus with Johansen getting up to speed in late April early May when season was over. Don't trust his judgement to be honest.

Offline darbolina

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #72 on: May 20, 2019, 05:11:19 PM »
 :-*Yes, the squad in January badly needed some legs and quality in midfield and attackers especially after losing Barnes. Dowling bought in Murphy, Montero and Johansen - enough said .

He has some serious work to do to earn the fans trust..........
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 07:17:53 PM by darbolina »

Offline AlbionFan

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #73 on: May 20, 2019, 06:47:41 PM »
Trying to be balanced and fair, none of us fans know his actual remit and what constraints he is working to and under.

I can’t see our owner and board giving him reasonable “carte blanche”, so his hands are tied. I wouldn’t be surprised if he jumped ship at the first opportunity
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Offline WBArgo

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #74 on: May 20, 2019, 06:50:00 PM »
Was this the summer that Peace took a step back and let Jenkins have the reigns?  A short-lived experiment.  I'm getting deja vu, but without the security blanket of Peace (wanting to sell a PL club).
I believe it was our first season post-Ashworth which shows - only one signing was decent, Lescott. I imagine most of the others were from the Ashworth 'model' but chosen by others and it just didn't work.
Obviously we will be trying a more low-budget approach. That's not to say it will or won't work, but I imagine it will be based on more lower league/foreign players.
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Offline Adder

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2019, 09:54:10 PM »
:-*Yes, the squad in January badly needed some legs and quality in midfield and attackers especially after losing Barnes. Dowling bought in Murphy, Montero and Johansen - enough said .

He has some serious work to do to earn the fans trust..........
Johansen a midfielder who can run and pass - that was a shock.
Thing is not many players are available in January, it wouldn't be easy plucking another Barnes from somewhere.

Offline baggiemart

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #76 on: May 21, 2019, 11:26:24 AM »
I was disappointed with the season just gone. we tried a quick fix to get back to the premier as soon as possible and it failed which it was always going to. If we had gone up we would have been battered every other match. the only way to get promoted is in the top 2 positions. Out of all the teams promoted through the play offs in the last 10 seasons, 7 have been relegated within 2 seasons, 6 in the 1st season.

We need to take time and build a team capable of competing in the premier league. This will only be done on the back of recruiting lower league or oversea players.  So when we appoint the next manager appoint someone who knows these leagues well . We can then look at picking up bargains from overseas like Odemwingie.

Offline baggiejohn

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #77 on: May 21, 2019, 12:08:01 PM »
I was disappointed with the season just gone. we tried a quick fix to get back to the premier as soon as possible and it failed which it was always going to. If we had gone up we would have been battered every other match. the only way to get promoted is in the top 2 positions. Out of all the teams promoted through the play offs in the last 10 seasons, 7 have been relegated within 2 seasons, 6 in the 1st season.

We need to take time and build a team capable of competing in the premier league. This will only be done on the back of recruiting lower league or oversea players.  So when we appoint the next manager appoint someone who knows these leagues well . We can then look at picking up bargains from overseas like Odemwingie.

Agree with your sentiments, but had we been promoted, even if we'd been relegated, we'd have been around £100 million better off, which we could have used to build the team you suggest.
As it is, we've probably got next season & then we're in the cacky without further investment
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Offline baggiemart

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #78 on: May 21, 2019, 01:27:20 PM »
Agree with your sentiments, but had we been promoted, even if we'd been relegated, we'd have been around £100 million better off, which we could have used to build the team you suggest.
As it is, we've probably got next season & then we're in the cacky without further investment

just because you have money doesn't mean you get the best players.  in our experience we have wasted so much money on very average players over the last few years. If we had gained promotion we would probably keep the deadwood we have now and buy some over rated player and pay them a fortune.

Remember, Norwich and Sheffield United won promotion without parachute payment money. They did what we should be looking to do, build a side based on youth and good championship players.

Offline baggiejohn

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2019, 01:46:25 PM »
just because you have money doesn't mean you get the best players.  in our experience we have wasted so much money on very average players over the last few years. If we had gained promotion we would probably keep the deadwood we have now and buy some over rated player and pay them a fortune.

Remember, Norwich and Sheffield United won promotion without parachute payment money. They did what we should be looking to do, build a side based on youth and good championship players.

There's a saying "money isn't everything" which it isn't, but lack of money is, we stand a better chance of getting better players with money

Norwich & Sheffield United are the exception, not the rule, over the years, for every Norwich & Sheffield United success there are at least 10 failures.

The law of averages says that without backing after next season, we fail.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

Offline baggiemart

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #80 on: May 21, 2019, 02:05:39 PM »
There's a saying "money isn't everything" which it isn't, but lack of money is, we stand a better chance of getting better players with money

Norwich & Sheffield United are the exception, not the rule, over the years, for every Norwich & Sheffield United success there are at least 10 failures.

The law of averages says that without backing after next season, we fail.

So what about the seasons before :

Wolves, cardiff and Fulham got promoted  .................   No parachute payments

Brighton and Huddersfield got promoted  .....................  No parachute payment

I think your comparison of 10 failures to every success is probably the other way around.   

How many teams have got promoted recently with the help of parachute payments ?

Newcastle 2017,

Too many people are thinking about parachute payment.  What about getting a good manager and building a good team.

Offline MarkW

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #81 on: May 21, 2019, 04:57:44 PM »
Removing all the loaners our squad looks frightfully thin, and that's before you start looking at the players who could leave.

Nyom*
Wilson

Dawson*
Hegazi*
Bartley
Fitzwater

Gibbs*
Townsend
Melbourne

Field
Brunt
Livermore
Harper

Burke
Phillips
Edwards
Leko

HRK
Rondon*
Rodriguez*

* Denotes those I could see leaving
« Last Edit: May 21, 2019, 05:21:19 PM by MarkW »
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Offline baggiejohn

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #82 on: May 21, 2019, 05:06:39 PM »
So what about the seasons before :

Wolves, cardiff and Fulham got promoted  .................   No parachute payments

Brighton and Huddersfield got promoted  .....................  No parachute payment

I think your comparison of 10 failures to every success is probably the other way around.   

How many teams have got promoted recently with the help of parachute payments ?

Newcastle 2017,

Too many people are thinking about parachute payment.  What about getting a good manager and building a good team.

I'm not sure how much you know about football finance, but I suggest you take a look at the accounts for the clubs that you mentioned.

You can get the information here
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/

If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

Offline baggiemart

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #83 on: May 21, 2019, 08:04:38 PM »
I'm not sure how much you know about football finance, but I suggest you take a look at the accounts for the clubs that you mentioned.

You can get the information here
https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/

And your point is ............?????

I'm not interested in going through company balance sheets , I did that for many years when i worked as an accountant !!

The discussion was the importance about the parachute payment. The doom and gloom being passed around on these boards is if we don't get promoted next season, then in the words of Dads Army " We are all doomed !!! "

Whereby the most important criteria is getting a good manager with a good side together so we can compete in the premier.

If your saying , by looking at the balance sheets of the clubs who got promoted, that they had cash injections from the owners , then that is a different argument.

Offline baggiejohn

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #84 on: May 21, 2019, 08:46:25 PM »
And your point is ............?????

I'm not interested in going through company balance sheets , I did that for many years when i worked as an accountant !!

The discussion was the importance about the parachute payment. The doom and gloom being passed around on these boards is if we don't get promoted next season, then in the words of Dads Army " We are all doomed !!! "

Whereby the most important criteria is getting a good manager with a good side together so we can compete in the premier.

If your saying , by looking at the balance sheets of the clubs who got promoted, that they had cash injections from the owners , then that is a different argument.

I'm saying there is a correlation between the wealth of a football club & it's owners & the ability to get good players and a good manager. Not really a different argument.
Our owner, allegedly, is not prepared (or able) to provide a cash injection & therefore the parachute payments are critical to our abilty to compete.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

Offline baggiemart

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Re: The Squad
« Reply #85 on: May 21, 2019, 08:56:57 PM »
I'm saying there is a correlation between the wealth of a football club & it's owners & the ability to get good players and a good manager. Not really a different argument.
Our owner, allegedly, is not prepared (or able) to provide a cash injection & therefore the parachute payments are critical to our abilty to compete.

I agree with part of your statement where our owner is not prepared to help the club financially , but we should not obsessed with the parachute payment. yes its a help but we have got to be prepared to survive without it. Money can be easily spent on players who are not worth it. This can be seen in the premier league where a lot of the players costing many millions in transfer fees and wages would probably not survive in the championship.

There is also a flip side to that argument where there are players in the championship who do not cost millions who would survive in the   premier league.  This is the market we have to shop in. A good manager will identify such players and hopefully develop a good team along the way.  But this all takes time.