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Offline Droitwich Baggie

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Language
« on: April 23, 2019, 01:13:14 PM »
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-47982494/the-teenagers-who-translate-for-their-parents
Migrants find it difficult to speak English.

We expect them to speak English when they come over here, but how many of us even try to speak the language of the country we visit on holiday?
I try and quite enjoy it. The person I speak to also likes the fact that I am trying.
I sometimes get it wrong, and they then have to ask me what I am on about in ....English.

Offline OldburyWBA

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Re: Language
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2019, 03:21:22 PM »
I always have a translator on my phone when I go abroad, we can't moan about people coming here if we don't try when we go abroad.

The English who move abroad and don't even attempt to learn the language are a disgrace to be honest.
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Offline Droitwich Baggie

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Re: Language
« Reply #2 on: April 23, 2019, 03:27:56 PM »
I always have a translator on my phone when I go abroad, we can't moan about people coming here if we don't try when we go abroad.

The English who move abroad and don't even attempt to learn the language are a disgrace to be honest.

This is the reason why I put it on here.

Offline BAGGIES4LIFE

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Re: Language
« Reply #3 on: April 23, 2019, 03:47:10 PM »
I always have a translator on my phone when I go abroad, we can't moan about people coming here if we don't try when we go abroad.

The English who move abroad and don't even attempt to learn the language are a disgrace to be honest.

As English is such a Universal language us Brits have become complacent about learning other languages.  I moved to Thailand after retirement (but back here for the play offs) and tried so hard to learn Thai but I failed miserably. It’s a very tonal language and the older you get the more difficult to learn, it hardly helps if your hearing is not good either.  If learning a language became compulsory at school it would be a move in the right direction.

Offline OldburyWBA

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Re: Language
« Reply #4 on: April 23, 2019, 03:51:54 PM »
As English is such a Universal language us Brits have become complacent about learning other languages.  I moved to Thailand after retirement (but back here for the play offs) and tried so hard to learn Thai but I failed miserably. It’s a very tonal language and the older you get the more difficult to learn, it hardly helps if your hearing is not good either.  If learning a language became compulsory at school it would be a move in the right direction.

Thats it though you made the effort to at least try, too many go and don't even try, they expect people to  work around them instead, Spain is a perfect example. Some of the Brits have been there years and years but cannot speak a single word (other than probably cerveza)
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Language
« Reply #5 on: April 23, 2019, 05:41:34 PM »
I think there is a massive difference between a migrant learning to speak the language of a country they wish to settle and work in and someone going on holiday for a couple of weeks. Most holiday makers end up in hotels where English is predominantly spoken and have no need or desire to engage in the local language.

As a nation we are very poor at learning a second language, there is an element of arrogance as we expect everyone to speak English, which is not the language spoken by a majority of people in the world today, but it is the most popular Language to learn I suspect.

It is right that the migrants learn to speak the language of the host country and in countries like Australia, I believe it is obligatory towards obtaining residency and citizenship.

I visit a small village in Spain frequently now that I’m retired and, with the help of some local villagers, who I know consider to be friends, I am learning Spanish. In return, I help them with their English. Win, win!

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Offline hardtobeat

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Re: Language
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2019, 05:47:14 PM »
Was once told by a Swedish  girl that the English are/were extremely lazy where languages were concerned. Having spent a number of years living abroad I saw nothing to dispel her theory..The number of ex pats that don't even try is truly awful !
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Offline OldburyWBA

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Re: Language
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2019, 05:48:50 PM »
I think there is a massive difference between a migrant learning to speak the language of a country they wish to settle and work in and someone going on holiday for a couple of weeks. Most holiday makers end up in hotels where English is predominantly spoken and have no need or desire to engage in the local language.

As a nation we are very poor at learning a second language, there is an element of arrogance as we expect everyone to speak English, which is not the language spoken by a majority of people in the world today, but it is the most popular Language to learn I suspect.

It is right that the migrants learn to speak the language of the host country and in countries like Australia, I believe it is obligatory towards obtaining residency and citizenship.

I visit a small village in Spain frequently now that I’m retired and, with the help of some local villagers, who I know consider to be friends, I am learning Spanish. In return, I help them with their English. Win, win!

I agree with that but I think some effort should still be made, personally when we go to Spain we try not to stay where its full of English as you don't actually see much of real Spain.
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Language
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2019, 06:16:47 PM »
I agree with that but I think some effort should still be made, personally when we go to Spain we try not to stay where its full of English as you don't actually see much of real Spain.

IMO it’s a much better experience and more rewarding to involve yourself with the local community and their culture. Last week was “Semana Santa” and our village was in respectful and religious party mode for the week, a wonderful experience, more than a few cerveza and tapas were consumed. With friends, we were out for 12 hours on Friday soaking it ALL up :D

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Offline SmethDan

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Re: Language
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2019, 07:54:29 PM »
I think there is a massive difference between a migrant learning to speak the language of a country they wish to settle and work in and someone going on holiday for a couple of weeks...........

Agree 100%, there's a huge difference and despite spending the majority of my life in the UK my English is still occasionally rop(e)y. I can get by in most instances though  ;D .

I lived in Germany for four years (army) and spoke German to a reasonably decent colloquial level. Even now and after over twenty years I'd be more than confident asking for directions, while ordering food and beer would be an absolute breeze. I also have enough French and Spanish to 'get by', but I've just remembered a brief encounter I had in Duquesa in 2014.

On our first day there I ordered some food from a dual menu (Spanish/English) and without thinking ordered in English despite the Spanish being there in brackets. Our waiter grinned and asked why the English are so lazy and never learn Spanish. The conversation went something like this:

Me : 'which year were you born please?'

Waiter: '1994, why?'

Me: 'so you're twenty?'

Waiter: 'I've recently turned 21, why?'

Me: 'because before today I've only been in Spain for a ten day holiday, and that was in 1987. Daily life, work and family commitments mean I haven't needed to speak a word of Spanish since. This is my eleventh day in total in your country and I'm confident my Spanish vocabulary is wider and more diverse than yours was following your first eleven days in Spain, so all told I'm ahead of the game'

Waiter: '...... silence.......', followed by the arrival of our drinks and food some time later.

Truth is I just saw items written in English, it was my first time abroad since 1994 (Antigua) and for the first time in about seven years I was relaxed, switched off completely and ordered in our own tongue as it was written in front of me.  It's not a crime. I ordered in Spanish for the rest of the holiday though  ;D .
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Offline costa blanca baggie

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Re: Language
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 08:58:42 PM »
IMO it’s a much better experience and more rewarding to involve yourself with the local community and their culture. Last week was “Semana Santa” and our village was in respectful and religious party mode for the week, a wonderful experience, more than a few cerveza and tapas were consumed. With friends, we were out for 12 hours on Friday soaking it ALL up :D
You obviously weren’t on the Costa Blanca. Everybody there got soaked for about a week.  :D
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Language
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2019, 09:01:34 PM »
You obviously weren’t on the Costa Blanca. Everybody there got soaked for about a week.  :D

We did have rain that disrupted the processions and meant we had to spend more time in the bars as a consequence  :D

It’s true, every rain cloud has a cerveza lining in Spain  ;D
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Offline timdon

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Re: Language
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2019, 09:34:13 PM »
A couple of years ago I was visiting my daughter in Menorca, where she taught English. One of the expats who had lived there for 10 years told me, perfectly seriously, that "the only bad thing about Spain is the Spanish". I couldn't believe his ignorance and arrogance. In 10 years, the only word of Spanish he had learned was Hola. Then he told me that he was a Villa fan........and I immediately understood his ignorance and arrogance  ;D

Offline Droitwich Baggie

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Re: Language
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2019, 11:04:04 PM »
Spain, its islands in the Med and the Canaries, is where i like to holiday. That is why I have been to a holiday Spanish course and also also try the lingo. So worth while trying and having a laugh with the locals in villages who realise I am just "Tonto".  lol.

I tried Greek and Turkish, but Spanish is so much easier.
btw... Even though I went to a technical school in Birmingham (Handsworth Technical) I picked up a few words in German for my year group.
The year before did French and the year after did Russian !!

Offline mulliganstired

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Re: Language
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 08:17:25 AM »
The main reason for English becoming the main world language is really America, but it was a close run thing - in an early congress they had a vote about whether German or English would be the first language of the country and English only just won, funnily enough because of Irish votes.

I crap at foreign languages, but I have found that everyone is very patient and helpful, except the French who sneer at you and shout back in "Inspector Clouseau" English.

Offline ex coseley kid

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Re: Language
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2019, 08:19:54 AM »
I used to go to Malta and put some effort into learning some basics. The locals found it charming but also hilarious as they are very fluent in English.

Interestingly at the start of the last century they took a vote on whether English or Italian would be the second language... obviously we won. (As an aside, we let them down in the 60's. They helped save our collective asses in WWII and turned them down when they asked to be made part of the UK.)

I do agree though Droitwich, making the effort even if you fall short, is everything. People appreciate you reaching out.

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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Language
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2019, 08:24:40 AM »
Of course with the advances in technology, I’m sure that in the not to distant future, you will be able to have a microchip implanted that is connected to the cloud and you’ll be able to select and speak any language with a degree of fluency, a la Joe “90”

Until then, you could download the Voice Translate App to your IOS or Android device.

 8) :D 8)
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Offline Mister AT

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Re: Language
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2019, 09:07:58 AM »
Just out of curiosity, what would be the best way to go about learning a new language?

Courses?
Apps?
Online?

A second language has always been something I have been interested in, but never really invested the time to get the ball rolling.
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Language
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2019, 09:16:45 AM »
Just out of curiosity, what would be the best way to go about learning a new language?

Courses?
Apps?
Online?

A second language has always been something I have been interested in, but never really invested the time to get the ball rolling.

You have to try them all and see which one works for you. But nothing like immersing yourself in the local area for a few weeks, which always isn’t possible. Duolingo is a good free App to start with imo
“We create success or failure on the pitch primarily by our thoughts.”

Offline kc56wba

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Re: Language
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2019, 10:22:16 AM »
When I told the missus I was interested in learning another language she said "Hadn't you better learn to speak English first" just because I come out with the occasional black county word which she core understand. The joys of living with a posh bird.
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Offline leeiswba

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Re: Language
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2019, 10:40:51 AM »
You have to try them all and see which one works for you. But nothing like immersing yourself in the local area for a few weeks, which always isn’t possible. Duolingo is a good free App to start with imo

I have downloaded that Duolingo and it is decent to be fair

Offline The Black Pearl

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Re: Language
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2019, 01:44:41 PM »
We gave the world the Beatles, the best English lesson ever invented.
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Online BoingFlyer

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Re: Language
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2019, 02:03:01 PM »
The main reason for English becoming the main world language is really America, but it was a close run thing - in an early congress they had a vote about whether German or English would be the first language of the country and English only just won, funnily enough because of Irish votes.

I crap at foreign languages, but I have found that everyone is very patient and helpful, except the French who sneer at you and shout back in "Inspector Clouseau" English.

I don't agree, the British Empire spread English as the language of business long before those upstarts were on the scene. Who gave English to the American's?  ;D
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Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: Language
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2019, 02:19:37 PM »
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

Offline tuamigos

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Re: Language
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2019, 02:22:37 PM »
I don't agree, the British Empire spread English as the language of business long before those upstarts were on the scene. Who gave English to the American's?  ;D
[/b]

and look at the balls up they made of that as well?
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Language
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2019, 04:04:12 PM »
I have downloaded that Duolingo and it is decent to be fair

There is no secret to learning another language, perseverance, hard work, dedication and desire are amongst some of the attributes required. Once you’ve got going with Duolingo, try other free options that are available online. PM, when you feel ready.

When learning Spanish, you have to, essentially, learn a new grammar and how verbs are used to describe male, female, past, present, future and more.

Good luck and keep at it, you will be rewarded if you do.
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Language
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2019, 04:11:03 PM »
A quite brilliant exchange on Twitter:


https://twitter.com/josefbone/status/1121368757673263105?s=19

As you say, brilliant and the translation is a real put down for Shilts  :D

estabas fuera saltado por un enano argentino

“You were out jumped by an Argentina dwarf” aka Maradona  ;D
“We create success or failure on the pitch primarily by our thoughts.”