Author Topic: Extinction Rebellion in London (Read 17045 times)

Adder · « **Reply #275 on:** October 19, 2019, 08:04:27 AM »

Replying to AlbionFan above.....

No I don't 100% unquestioned accept what is written in any Wiki...but there are references as to where it came from. I don't have the time or an army of researches working for me to dig into each and every statement. If it was complete b*ll*cks I'm sure it would have been corrected by now.

Yes I'm entitled to quote other peoples views - I put it in quotes to make sure no-one thought they were my original view.

Northern Rock were one of the worst and most notorious examples of financial mismanagement.

Ridley jumped on the theory of a stall in global warming a few years back. As the below article states (only takes 2 minutes to read - yes it's one scientists view but he has the 97% on his side), sea temperatures were rising during that same period. This decade the global surface records have shown a series of the hottest years on record.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2017/06/the-great-myth-of-the-global-warming-pause/

The thing about this is I'd be delighted to be wrong and not to have to worry about what's going to happen during the lifetime of my daughters - I hope in 25 - 50 years time we look back and say 'what a load of scare-mongering b*llo*cks that was'....but anyone who denies man's role in the planet warming or claims it's a good thing has the 97% of publishing climate scientists disagreeing with them.

Regarding replacing fossil fuels...I know there's a lot of work to do but, already all of the company Green Energy's gas and an increasing proportion of Ecotricity's gas is already 'renewable'...as well as 100% of the electricity. The gas is produced from green gas mills using either food waste or grass and garden cuttings. With serious government investment this could be scaled up pretty quickly (same applies to other governments). Green Energy and Ecotricity are not significantly more expensive, if at all, than other companies either.

mulliganstired · « **Reply #276 on:** October 19, 2019, 08:32:45 AM »

Right or wrong (and I happen to think their general arguments are correct), they need to pack up the disruption and do things by the book now, if they have as much support as they claim they will get traction.

As a liberal I am happy for the cops to sweep the remnant diehards off the streets calmly and give them nice vegan meals in the cells for a day or two.

AlbionFan · « **Reply #277 on:** October 20, 2019, 11:28:45 AM »

Clearly, we have a different take on Extinction Rebellion, I do not believe their predictions for the future of mankind. I’ve mentioned before that they, in my view, are politically driven organisation to destroy capitalism and I still firmly hold that view. There philosophy is no better, in my opinion, in what they are trying to achieve than that of Pol Pot and his evil Khmer Rouge regime and what they inflicted on the people of Cambodia

We can also thank XR for the increase in the spread of the medically accepted diagnosed condition of “eco-anxiety”, we’ve seen on our TV screens children effected by it. I know someone, an adult, close to my family, that can’t even be involved in conversations about climate change without it adversely effecting him as he goes into a state of depression worrying about his two young children’s future. To me people who knowingly and willingly inflicting that on others is a form of mental abuse and it cannot be right. I have four children and seven grandchildren and I have concerns about their futures and don’t take these matters lightly.

I don’t agree with their extreme predictions and mantras of catastrophe, annihilation and disaster. That is my personal held view and opinion. Only a fool would deny climate change isn’t happening, we have all had experience of it. But I remain optimistic, but am not complacent.

Whilst there are people with vested interest in fossil fuels there are also those with a vested interest in the alternatives to them that drive the debate.

I spend a lot of time in Spain and where I am based there is little or no awareness of global warming in the local population. There is without question enormous potential for solar panels, but there are very few to be seen on the roofs of houses. I did have a conversation with a Spanish engineer the other day who said that as yet, there is no motivation for change in the local population. He gave me an analogy “smokers know that they run a high risk of dying from cancer, but they still continue to smoke”.

Footnote to XR
These are the countries that you should be concentrating on and set about educating them in global warming and climate change not disrupting honest everyday people fully aware of the issues, but who still have to make a living and make their way in life.

The challenge for Alternatives
Fossil Fuel and Bioenergy Production Q1 2019

Oil (production Millions of tonnes)
Q1 2019 - 14.9. Up by 9.2% on the same period last year, 51.73% of production

Natural gas (production Millions of tonnes)
Q1 2019 - 9.7 Down by 5.7% on the same period last year, 33.68% of production

Coal (production Millions of tonnes)
Q1 2019 - 0.4 Down by 8.5 on the same period last year, 1.38% of production

Bioenergy & waste (production Millions of tonnes)
Q1 2019 - 3.8 Down by 3.9 on the same period last year, 13.19% of production

Total Production Millions of Tonnes 28.8

Adder · « **Reply #278 on:** October 20, 2019, 10:18:48 PM »

You mention eco-anxiety. I understand that and I certainly get depressed about the situation at times. My anxiety isn't XR's fault though it's caused by the reports of actual findings of climate scientists. The climate scientists are not inventing stuff or exaggerating the seriousness of the issue, or if they are there's a hell of a lot of them giving the same picture. The need for urgent action reflected by XR is backed by climate scientists and that's why there are scientists, teachers, farmers, retired grand-parents, doctors etc. etc. joining XR as members and taking part in the action.

The UN report mentioned here 'upped the anti' regarding urgency.
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/oct/08/global-warming-must-not-exceed-15c-warns-landmark-un-report

A few years back I used to wish the BBC didn't report the latest depressing findings from science reports BUT now realise it's absolutely essential that the issue is kept at the front of the news and not swept under any carpet.

I understand what you say about Spain, but I think you get a lot of people in any country including ours who just switch off when certain types of news come on and as a result are mostly unaware of the climate issue (I work with some of them). They choose or prefer to be oblivious to the issue, don't see it as relevant to them or happening now or any time soon...it's easier not to be interested or concerned. I suspect there would be a lot of informed and concerned people in Spain also, especially in the cities. Climate protests have taken place in Spain also.

Albionic · « **Reply #279 on:** October 21, 2019, 09:16:38 AM »

15c, Jesus thats going to be warm !

tuamigos · « **Reply #280 on:** October 21, 2019, 09:53:43 AM »

Quote from: Albionic on October 21, 2019, 09:16:38 AM

15c, Jesus thats going to be warm !

not if you add a decimal point

Albionic · « **Reply #281 on:** October 21, 2019, 11:22:01 AM »

Quote from: tuamigos on October 21, 2019, 09:53:43 AM

not if you add a decimal point

15.0 C still bloomin hot, not a lot of ice about !

AlbionFan · « **Reply #282 on:** October 21, 2019, 06:02:54 PM »

I have great empathy with you if you are effected by eco-anxiety, I’ve seen, up close, what it can do to those that suffer with it and I detest those that perpetrate that on you, it is abhorrent.

Climate Change and Global Warming are beyond the comprehension of the average man in the street, we rely on the “experts” to advise us based on their scientific knowledge and complicated calculations involved. It is expected that errors in these calculations will occur, but when over many years those same errors fail to be corrected, it leaves many in the field of mathematics and statically analysis believing there is a bias.

I will continue to look for evidence to question the 97% of scientists whose predictions and conclusions I am sceptical of, I repeat I am not a denier, it appears I have to keep repeating this because my views don’t sit comfortably with some who read and contribute to this thread and also I do it to avoid any further personal abuse. I don’t agree with the 97% of scientists, I am, however, a “lukewarmist” I suppose.

https://climateaudit.org/2019/10/17/gregory-et-al-2019-unsound-claims-about-bias-in-climate-feedback-and-climate-sensitivity-estimation/

Adder · « **Reply #283 on:** October 21, 2019, 06:36:33 PM »

Thanks, empathy appreciated. As you'll guess, I don't detest XR or the climate scientists because the overwhelming evidence is that we are in a climate crisis and the message needs to be out there. I'd prefer to have a personal dark cloud to deal with as long as the message is out there and the powers that be take action (forlorn hope in many cases).

Seems we can add new mothers to the types who join XR....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-49836830

AlbionFan · « **Reply #284 on:** October 21, 2019, 07:16:08 PM »

In my view, it not possible to reduce our carbon footprint to zero by 2030, even 2050 is a big challenge. Reducing to a zero footprint by 2030 would require all of us giving up heating our homes and cooking in our homes, giving up our cars, flying, holidays and all those things we take for granted. Where would we work, who would be the employers? Where would we get money from? What would there be to buy and where? We don’t have enough land to house wind turbines and solar panels to replace what we will have to give up and satisfy the demand. Additionally, Bioenergy/Biomass also produces CO2 and therefore would not be an option.

If we want populations across the world to sign up reducing CO2 emissions, we need to consider global marketing campaigns, because the hardest thing to do is change opinions, attitudes and habits of individuals. We need to set SMART Targets that are Measurable, Attainable, Realistic/Relevant and Time Bound. I don’t watch TV preferring Netflix et al, so can anyone tell me are there any adverts on the TV warning or raising awareness in understandable terms without scarring the Heebie-jeebies out of viewers.

Obviously scarring and disrupting people’s lives isn’t working and isn’t getting the message out there, in fact the reverse is happening.

Sincere, best wishes with your condition, I hope that you develop coping mechanism.

Adder · « **Reply #285 on:** October 21, 2019, 10:57:05 PM »

Thanks, I'm not immune from worrying too much about a variety of things but tend to cope and get on with things. Climate change is one I could do without but it's certainly there as I prefer to be aware.

Regarding countries signing up to reducing carbon emissions, I think that's what the Paris agreement is meant to be. Of course it's not great that the US will leave the day Trump unfortunately gets re-elected - that's when their 3 or 4 years notice of leaving is up. It's heartening to hear that many US states and organisational bodies are ignoring the denier stance of Trump and continuing with their own targets....but it's obviously far from ideal the US dropping out. The republicans are pretty well bank-rolled by the big energy companies so it's not a great position.

To answer your TV advert question. No there is nothing regarding raising awareness. I'd have thought that would have to come from the Government or an official regulated body.

AlbionFan · « **Reply #286 on:** November 19, 2019, 05:01:41 PM »

I watched a programme on BBC 4 the other evening, entitling “Climate Change by Numbers”

Well worth a watch and it’s still available on catch up in the link below

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02jsdrk/climate-change-by-numbers

Black Country Pride · « **Reply #287 on:** November 20, 2019, 05:23:40 PM »

Extinction Rebellion co-founder Roger Hallam has given a rather spectacularly ill-advised interview with the Die Zeit. I'm out in Germany on business at the moment and to say it has gone down badly with the locals would be quite an understatement.

Hunnington Baggie · « **Reply #288 on:** November 20, 2019, 05:36:23 PM »

Quote from: Black Country Pride on November 20, 2019, 05:23:40 PM

Extinction Rebellion co-founder Roger Hallam has given a rather spectacularly ill-advised interview with the Die Zeit. I'm out in Germany on business at the moment and to say it has gone down badly with the locals would be quite an understatement.

you got a linky?

EDIT: Never mind, found it. What was he thinking in Germany of all places!! The guy is basically banned from the country now.

For those interested, and due to the source topic in the GE thread, pick your poison:
Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/nov/20/extinction-rebellion-founders-holocaust-remarks-spark-fury

Mail:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7706583/British-Extinction-Rebellion-founder-sparks-fury-referring-Holocaust-just-f-kery.html

Zeit online - in German but the important bit is in English, to prove he’s not mistranslated.
https://www.zeit.de/wirtschaft/2019-11/roger-hallam-extinction-rebellion-mitgruender-klimawandel-holocaust

gerry m · « **Reply #289 on:** November 20, 2019, 07:12:34 PM »

Perhaps Mr Hallam could take a tour of Auschwitz and see for himself the horrors of what really happened. He may then evaluate his ill informed ramblings.

The Black Pearl · « **Reply #290 on:** December 04, 2019, 05:58:35 PM »

Co2 emissions in the UK down 2%.

In other news that Greta thingy sails to the climate talks from the USA, but, they had to get a skipper to take charge of the crossing and she flew to the US from the UK to join the boat, you couldn't write it!

Hunnington Baggie · « **Reply #291 on:** December 04, 2019, 06:28:53 PM »

Quote from: The Black Pearl on December 04, 2019, 05:58:35 PM

Co2 emissions in the UK down 2%.

In other news that Greta thingy sails to the climate talks from the USA, but, they had to get a skipper to take charge of the crossing and she flew to the US from the UK to join the boat, you couldn't write it!

so this is the second boat journey she’s done where her crew’s flight has wiped out any CO2 advantages the trip had in the first place?!

kirk · « **Reply #292 on:** December 04, 2019, 06:36:19 PM »

Quote from: Black Country Pride on November 20, 2019, 05:23:40 PM

Extinction Rebellion co-founder Roger Hallam has given a rather spectacularly ill-advised interview with the Die Zeit. I'm out in Germany on business at the moment and to say it has gone down badly with the locals would be quite an understatement.

How did he get to Germany, walk ?

SmethDan · « **Reply #293 on:** December 04, 2019, 06:45:42 PM »

Quote from: kirk on December 04, 2019, 06:36:19 PM

How did he get to Germany, walk ?

Could be wrong but I think I read somewhere that the interview was conducted via a video link up.

Adder · « **Reply #294 on:** December 04, 2019, 11:05:53 PM »

Quote from: Hunnington Baggie on December 04, 2019, 06:28:53 PM

so this is the second boat journey she’s done where her crew’s flight has wiped out any CO2 advantages the trip had in the first place?!

So is she supposed to employ a carbon neutral entourage whose every move would then be watched by the right leaning press ?
This journey was only necessary because the talks had to switch from Chile to Spain due to the unrest in Chile.

TheJacko2000 · « **Reply #295 on:** December 04, 2019, 11:10:39 PM »

Quote from: Adder on December 04, 2019, 11:05:53 PM

So is she supposed to employ a carbon neutral entourage whose every move would then be watched by the right leaning press ?
This journey was only necessary because the talks had to switch from Chile to Spain due to the unrest in Chile.

The journey was unnecessary because the sailor flew to America when little Greta could have simply flown to Spain. They've admitted it's a publicity stunt.

End of the day you've got an Autistic girl being exploited by big business.

Adder · « **Reply #296 on:** December 05, 2019, 07:23:16 AM »

but she'd have got slaughtered even more by the usual suspects if she'd taken that flight.

TheJacko2000 · « **Reply #297 on:** December 15, 2019, 09:36:16 PM »

Quote

Supported by the European Union and small island states, the push for higher ambition was opposed by a range of countries including the US, Brazil, India and China.

Excerpt from report on Climate Summit.

Pointless while this remains the case.

Adder · « **Reply #298 on:** December 15, 2019, 09:48:48 PM »

The BBC report last night mentioned US, Australia and Brazil. Right wing governing parties, dare I say with many vested interests in the fossil fuel companies. Leaders that don't give a f@ck about anything except their own economic prosperity and self interest.