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Offline tuamigos

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #225 on: October 12, 2019, 02:07:24 PM »
This isnt strictly true.

Can’t remember where I read the report but there is an area in africa that’s uninhabited and if it was filled with solar panels would supply the entire earths energy requirements

Instead of investing in future renewables they are more interested in their share price and making sure dividends are paid.

The whole thing rests solely at the feet of business for me, we all need energy yes but it’s what they use to supply that energy that’s the issue. There is technology there to do it without the pollution but they don’t invest their profits in attaining it.

The sun and the moon give us all the power needed but we don’t utilise it instead burning our fossil fuels.

It’s about money, not about what’s affordable. Whilst they continue to use the infrastructure in place for fossil fuels and they make a profit they won’t do anything to rectify the situation

It is true with the technology available today.
I saw that report that you refer to regarding the solar panels in Africa.
I think they said it was an area of the Sahara desert approx 45,000 square miles.
The cost to undertake the job at current rates was something like 3 trillion dollars.
If you look at cost of HS2 that's trebled from the original estimate. I would imagine a project like this would go at least equally the same way.
They also said that the would be unable to produce the panels under the current production methods, as they produce high levels of toxins which means in  solving one problem and causing another.
I would imagine that obtaining power from a few area's around the world would also raise all sorts of political as well as environmental issues
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Offline Hunnington Baggie

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #226 on: October 12, 2019, 03:33:53 PM »
It is true with the technology available today.
I saw that report that you refer to regarding the solar panels in Africa.
I think they said it was an area of the Sahara desert approx 45,000 square miles.
The cost to undertake the job at current rates was something like 3 trillion dollars.
If you look at cost of HS2 that's trebled from the original estimate. I would imagine a project like this would go at least equally the same way.
They also said that the would be unable to produce the panels under the current production methods, as they produce high levels of toxins which means in  solving one problem and causing another.
I would imagine that obtaining power from a few area's around the world would also raise all sorts of political as well as environmental issues
look at Germany and eastern Europe when they deal with Russia as Gazprom is one of the largest gas and oil suppliers on the continent and is owned directly by the Russian Government. Many a time Russia has threatened to cut off Europe's supply if they don't do what they want.

Offline Bilston Dan

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #227 on: October 12, 2019, 05:25:30 PM »
It is true with the technology available today.
I saw that report that you refer to regarding the solar panels in Africa.
I think they said it was an area of the Sahara desert approx 45,000 square miles.
The cost to undertake the job at current rates was something like 3 trillion dollars.
If you look at cost of HS2 that's trebled from the original estimate. I would imagine a project like this would go at least equally the same way.
They also said that the would be unable to produce the panels under the current production methods, as they produce high levels of toxins which means in  solving one problem and causing another.
I would imagine that obtaining power from a few area's around the world would also raise all sorts of political as well as environmental issues

In the grand scheme of government...3 trillion dollars is not as much as it seems.
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #228 on: October 12, 2019, 05:51:22 PM »
I don't claim to have all the answers. Here's one thing they can do - abandon the Heathrow expansion plans which has an estimated cost of between £14bn - £18bn. Also introduce a frequent flyer tax which applies to business and pleasure flights. Use a large proportion of this money to finance increased research and development into methods of lowering the emissions from air travel.

There's lots of possibilities with pros and cons depending on what side of the fence your on. We need a match to talk about. ;)

Professor Jon Gibbins, director of the UK Carbon Capture and Storage Research Centre says “the UK is only going to get to net zero if the rest of the world agrees to make ambitious promises.”

If we are to believe this statement from Professor Gibbins, as I have suggested, as have many other members on this thread, unless the rest of the world commitments to zero emissions, we ourselves will never get to that target. So, no matter how much money we throw at the problem or initiatives we undertake, it is, to all in tense and purposes, a waste of time.

Which takes me nicely back to my point that XR should be protesting in the top 15 countries that are the main polluters and where the big wins are to be had, not in a country already committed to zero emissions, but XR’s main agenda isn’t really about that, it’s more about the overthrow of capitalism, which is their main objective, imo. In your response about where XR is protesting, only one country you mention, USA is in that top 15. If XR are genuine they need to be more targeted with their protesting and be brave enough to follow the example of “Tank Man”, but are they and will they?

To conclude, the Middlesbrough game can’t come quickly enough  ;) ;D

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Offline Hunnington Baggie

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #229 on: October 12, 2019, 07:03:42 PM »
In the grand scheme of government...3 trillion dollars is not as much as it seems.
By the American definition of Trillion, it would take the entire 2018 income of the British government 3.7 years to pay off, ignoring our own deficit and payments to infrastructure, health and welfare.

By the british definition (which i don't believe is the one used in this case) it would take 3,700 years... so let's hope it's not that one!!

Offline skyclad99

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #230 on: October 12, 2019, 11:52:24 PM »
I really cannot wait for the next match, just to put an end to this bloody thread.....
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Offline Adder

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #231 on: October 13, 2019, 08:05:05 AM »
Professor Jon Gibbins, director of the UK Carbon Capture and Storage Research Centre says “the UK is only going to get to net zero if the rest of the world agrees to make ambitious promises.”

If we are to believe this statement from Professor Gibbins, as I have suggested, as have many other members on this thread, unless the rest of the world commitments to zero emissions, we ourselves will never get to that target. So, no matter how much money we throw at the problem or initiatives we undertake, it is, to all in tense and purposes, a waste of time.

Which takes me nicely back to my point that XR should be protesting in the top 15 countries that are the main polluters and where the big wins are to be had, not in a country already committed to zero emissions, but XR’s main agenda isn’t really about that, it’s more about the overthrow of capitalism, which is their main objective, imo. In your response about where XR is protesting, only one country you mention, USA is in that top 15. If XR are genuine they need to be more targeted with their protesting and be brave enough to follow the example of “Tank Man”, but are they and will they?

To conclude, the Middlesbrough game can’t come quickly enough  ;) ;D
I have to just add that when you consider emissions per head of population which has to be relevant (Oct 2017 figures the most recent I could find), here's the top 8......
USA 16.5
Australia 15.4
Canada 15.1
Netherlands 9.9
Japan 9.5
Germany 8.9
China 7.5
UK 6.5

India now come well down with 1.7

So XR are protesting in 4 of the top 8 worst offenders...US, Aus, Netherlands, UK. Also there may be an element within XR who would like to defeat capitalism but to say that that is XR's main goal is just plain wrong.

Offline tuamigos

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #232 on: October 13, 2019, 11:31:42 AM »
I have to just add that when you consider emissions per head of population which has to be relevant (Oct 2017 figures the most recent I could find), here's the top 8......
USA 16.5
Australia 15.4
Canada 15.1
Netherlands 9.9
Japan 9.5
Germany 8.9
China 7.5
UK 6.5



India now come well down with 1.7

So XR are protesting in 4 of the top 8 worst offenders...US, Aus, Netherlands, UK. Also there may be an element within XR who would like to defeat capitalism but to say that that is XR's main goal is just plain wrong.


Using per head of population can be misleading.
India is only just behind China in terms of population at approx 1.5 billion, 73% that population live in rural area's and would contribute very little to the carbon emissions. So the carbon foot print of the 27% is really being masked by the 73%
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Offline Hunnington Baggie

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #233 on: October 13, 2019, 11:52:11 AM »

Using per head of population can be misleading.
India is only just behind China in terms of population at approx 1.5 billion, 73% that population live in rural area's and would contribute very little to the carbon emissions. So the carbon foot print of the 27% is really being masked by the 73%
which if you calculate that percentage is around 48 million people. Not far over 2/3s of the total population of Britain as of the most recent Census and I have seen stats stating that only 66% live in rural areas. We can dilute and skew numbers to fit an agenda as much as we like. The fact remains that there are countries equally at fault that XR will refuse to protest. Especially as it’s come out that some of their protesters have been paid by the organisation, we’d have to follow where that money is coming from. I wouldn’t be surprised if a certain name popped up if someone did a little digging in their accounts.
« Last Edit: October 13, 2019, 11:55:10 AM by Hunnington Baggie »

Offline johnny Cash

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #234 on: October 13, 2019, 12:03:21 PM »
which if you calculate that percentage is around 48 million people. Not far over 2/3s of the total population of Britain as of the most recent Census and I have seen stats stating that only 66% live in rural areas. We can dilute and skew numbers to fit an agenda as much as we like. The fact remains that there are countries equally at fault that XR will refuse to protest. Especially as it’s come out that some of their protesters have been paid by the organisation, we’d have to follow where that money is coming from. I wouldn’t be surprised if a certain name popped up if someone did a little digging in their accounts.

What percentage have you calculated? 27% of 1.5bn isn’t 48m.

Offline Hunnington Baggie

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #235 on: October 13, 2019, 12:22:05 PM »
What percentage have you calculated? 27% of 1.5bn isn’t 48m.
oops, I took the cut of 73% not that left over.  :-X  :P

Still, we are arguing about how India are saints as its’s ONLY got 1.5 Billion people to spread its disasterous pollution between.

Offline kc56wba

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #236 on: October 13, 2019, 12:52:29 PM »
I really cannot wait for the next match, just to put an end to this bloody thread.....

It is worse than Brexit.  :o ;) :-X
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Offline Albionic

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #237 on: October 13, 2019, 02:48:53 PM »
This isnt strictly true.

Can’t remember where I read the report but there is an area in africa that’s uninhabited and if it was filled with solar panels would supply the entire earths energy requirements

Instead of investing in future renewables they are more interested in their share price and making sure dividends are paid.

The whole thing rests solely at the feet of business for me, we all need energy yes but it’s what they use to supply that energy that’s the issue. There is technology there to do it without the pollution but they don’t invest their profits in attaining it.

The sun and the moon give us all the power needed but we don’t utilise it instead burning our fossil fuels.

It’s about money, not about what’s affordable. Whilst they continue to use the infrastructure in place for fossil fuels and they make a profit they won’t do anything to rectify the situation

It’s not just about generating or capturing energy there is still the need to distribute it to the point of use, for example the national grid uses / loses 17% of the energy which is input. I believe the future is about local generation / capture and storage thereof. The biggest challenge currently is the capital costs for a consumer to store locally acquired power until they need it!
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Offline tuamigos

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #238 on: October 13, 2019, 06:00:47 PM »
Seen reports in the Sunday press that they are paying and using professional loonies to top up the natural contingent
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Offline lewisant

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #239 on: October 16, 2019, 01:34:02 PM »
Can't be arsed to debate it but i wouldn't be surprised if the people behind XR are the same people behind EDL and Britain First and all that rubbish. Just a whole bunch of chaos being caused well god knows what the real world leaders are plotting.

Sorry, i've recently watched The Great Hack on Netflix and there's an agenda in this world to just pit us all against each other and i don't if it's because i'm a bit older now making me more aware but there's more hate and division in this world than i've ever known.

Offline Wigmore

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #240 on: October 16, 2019, 02:51:33 PM »
Seen reports in the Sunday press that they are paying and using professional loonies to top up the natural contingent
Ah! The press.
It must be 100% correct if it's appeared in the media. ::)

Offline mulliganstired

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #241 on: October 16, 2019, 04:48:01 PM »
Ah! The press.
It must be 100% correct if it's appeared in the media. ::)
It is true, my daughter is a bit Green and all that without being too mad, she knows someone who is a paid employee with a job title something like "press liaison officer" and his job is basically to get arrested in front of cameras.  He has many piercings, I would imagine that was on the job description.

They are right about almost everything scientifically, but they are wrong to think only aggressive protest can bring change, they are seriously in danger of causing a massive backlash - people don't like sanctimonious lecturing (see Br***t) and it is so easy for those selling newspapers/internet space to find out WHERE THEY ALL WENT ON AEROPLANES LAST YEAR.

Offline FallOutBoy

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #242 on: October 16, 2019, 04:57:40 PM »
It is true, my daughter is a bit Green and all that without being too mad, she knows someone who is a paid employee with a job title something like "press liaison officer" and his job is basically to get arrested in front of cameras.  He has many piercings, I would imagine that was on the job description.

They are right about almost everything scientifically, but they are wrong to think only aggressive protest can bring change, they are seriously in danger of causing a massive backlash - people don't like sanctimonious lecturing (see Br***t) and it is so easy for those selling newspapers/internet space to find out WHERE THEY ALL WENT ON AEROPLANES LAST YEAR.

They really aren't though, just watch Andrew Neil pull their representative apart on his program - they are alarmist (being generous), and they are telling kids that they won't live to adulthood due to climate change. It's like a cult.

Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #243 on: October 16, 2019, 05:28:56 PM »
Read the other day that Water Vapour is the most dominant Greenhouse Gas in our atmosphere and is responsible for about 60% of global warming.
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Offline tuamigos

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #244 on: October 16, 2019, 05:44:45 PM »
Read the other day that Water Vapour is the most dominant Greenhouse Gas in our atmosphere and is responsible for about 60% of global warming.

Yep that's right, I think its because it reflects radiation back to the planet
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Offline Albionic

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #245 on: October 16, 2019, 05:51:08 PM »
Yep that's right, I think its because it reflects radiation back to the planet

Damn them clouds !  Didn't have clouds when I were a lad !
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Offline mulliganstired

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #246 on: October 16, 2019, 06:14:55 PM »
They really aren't though, just watch Andrew Neil pull their representative apart on his program - they are alarmist (being generous), and they are telling kids that they won't live to adulthood due to climate change. It's like a cult.
They definitely overstate the immediacy of the changes to big themselves up cult-like as you say, and I don't think any scientists are 100% confident about how irreversible it is, there are too many feedback possibilities and other random events that could affect climate, but generally climate change is happening and speeding up, it's got the level of scientific proof that is needed to validate a new medicine.  If they really wanted change for the benefit of all they would be actually doing something constructive - of so many people agree with them as they claim, they should be leading action, not protest.  EG not flying.

Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #247 on: October 16, 2019, 06:29:33 PM »
UK Zero emissions by 2050:

Our current energy infrstructure has evolved over 200 years.

Zero emissions by 2050 gives us just 30 years to rip out and replace it all with untired untested (and some not yet existing) technology.

For the gain of temperatures 0.0001C lower.

But every bit helps I suppose!
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #248 on: October 16, 2019, 06:34:45 PM »
I think the grocer must have slipped a few magic mushroom in with our latest order, because, as I was eating my full English this morning I could have sworn I saw police arresting a giant broccoli. Needless to say, we won’t be shopping there again
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Offline Albionic

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #249 on: October 16, 2019, 07:17:30 PM »
I think the grocer must have slipped a few magic mushroom in with our latest order, because, as I was eating my full English this morning I could have sworn I saw police arresting a giant broccoli. Needless to say, we won’t be shopping there again

Not that it matters, but are you conserving energy by not having your posts number increment ?!?
Nice to see you saving Electrons for our kids, kids to use.  ;D
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