Author Topic: System / Tactics / Personnel  (Read 37629 times)

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Standaman

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #400 on: January 21, 2020, 11:54:06 PM »
It looks likely that we will be without Diangana for a month. Obviously losing his quality from the team is a blow but more than anything else it really has disturbed the balance of the team with him being pretty much the only option for a left footed wide player. As discussed earlier in this thread and again demonstrated against Stoke Pereira while left footed and can play out wide he less effective and we miss his presence in the central areas in the 10 role.

Filling the gap left Diangana is nearly impossible in the external market there is an absolute dearth of left footed wide players. Bowen is one of the few options but short of throwing £20m at Hull I find it hard to believe we would be able to land him. Orsic is reportedly two footed so could offer a solution.

In the absence of a ready made replacement then again I think we could do worse than a change of shape to a 3-4-1-2 or if Bilic wants to pursue a 4-2-3-1 then the two options for the wide left position is either HRK or Chris Brunt.




 
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seteefeet

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #401 on: January 22, 2020, 08:44:10 AM »
It looks likely that we will be without Diangana for a month. Obviously losing his quality from the team is a blow but more than anything else it really has disturbed the balance of the team with him being pretty much the only option for a left footed wide player. As discussed earlier in this thread and again demonstrated against Stoke Pereira while left footed and can play out wide he less effective and we miss his presence in the central areas in the 10 role.

Filling the gap left Diangana is nearly impossible in the external market there is an absolute dearth of left footed wide players. Bowen is one of the few options but short of throwing £20m at Hull I find it hard to believe we would be able to land him. Orsic is reportedly two footed so could offer a solution.

In the absence of a ready made replacement then again I think we could do worse than a change of shape to a 3-4-1-2 or if Bilic wants to pursue a 4-2-3-1 then the two options for the wide left position is either HRK or Chris Brunt.
What about 4-3-3? We had some success with that last season and it brought the best out of HRK and Phillips, for a time at least. We are struggling to create at present so need to focus on our attacking strength, whilst covering the absence of Diangana.
                 Bond (more hope than expectation)
  Furlong Bartley Ajayi Ferguson
       Phillips Sawyers Livermore
           Kanu Austin Perreira

I know it pushes Perreira out of the 10 role but he may get a bit more freedom in a 3, with CH's having to deal with the physicality of Kanu and Austin.
Could also suit the likes of Krovinovic, Edwards and Zohore.

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #402 on: January 22, 2020, 09:22:02 AM »
First of all - Stop playing players out of their natural position. How many times does this happen throughout football. You can't expect to get the best out of any player if he is not playing in his natural role. It isn't rocket science. Playing HRK on a wing is a waste, particularly when we have other wide options in the squad. At the moment Slav seems to be trying to get his favourite 11 players into the team, regardless of where they actually need to be playing. If anything, this has shown how thin our squad actually is. Pereira MUST play in the middle no matter how short we are. It nullifies the team moving him out wide, and effectively gives the opposition an advantage as he doesn't cause as many problems out wide. If you are a squad player you must be wondering what you have to do to get a game at the moment, bearing in mind the team is faltering badly. This isn't a 'blib', it's a drop off the cliff in terms of form. Slav HAS to change something. He cant just keep repeating what isn't working at the moment. If we don't add at least 2 players by next week we are in trouble. We have completely lost that cutting edge at the moment. We look pedestrian - there's no zip to our play, which is proving easy to defend against. You can't rely on 'luck' to get you out of a hole, you need to make positive changes to influence the outcome of a game. It seems we are just going through the motions right now, hoping something will happen, rather then making it happen. when you are playing well you generally get the rub of the green. At the moment nothing seems to be going our way.

iwastherein68

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #403 on: January 22, 2020, 09:34:26 AM »
Very good post Enzo
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Hull Baggie

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #404 on: January 22, 2020, 09:43:14 AM »
Chris Willock, although right footed, is listed on Transfermarkt as Primarily a left winger. Maybe we could give him a first team opportunity?

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/chris-willock/profil/spieler/314341
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seteefeet

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #405 on: January 22, 2020, 09:52:06 AM »
First of all - Stop playing players out of their natural position. How many times does this happen throughout football. You can't expect to get the best out of any player if he is not playing in his natural role. It isn't rocket science. Playing HRK on a wing is a waste, particularly when we have other wide options in the squad. At the moment Slav seems to be trying to get his favourite 11 players into the team, regardless of where they actually need to be playing. If anything, this has shown how thin our squad actually is. Pereira MUST play in the middle no matter how short we are. It nullifies the team moving him out wide, and effectively gives the opposition an advantage as he doesn't cause as many problems out wide. If you are a squad player you must be wondering what you have to do to get a game at the moment, bearing in mind the team is faltering badly. This isn't a 'blib', it's a drop off the cliff in terms of form. Slav HAS to change something. He cant just keep repeating what isn't working at the moment. If we don't add at least 2 players by next week we are in trouble. We have completely lost that cutting edge at the moment. We look pedestrian - there's no zip to our play, which is proving easy to defend against. You can't rely on 'luck' to get you out of a hole, you need to make positive changes to influence the outcome of a game. It seems we are just going through the motions right now, hoping something will happen, rather then making it happen. when you are playing well you generally get the rub of the green. At the moment nothing seems to be going our way.
That's why I think we need to look at a change of formation. The loss of Diangana has dramatically stunted the effect of the 4-2-3-1 we have played all season. It has also stunted Perreira's affect on the game, whether in a 10 or out wide. We have been "sussed", as it were, and have to adapt accordingly.
Big test for Bilic now, his tried and tested approach is failing so he needs to come up with something, and, whilst I would love to see it, I don't think 1 or 2 new faces will be enough, in isolation, to solve the current slide.
I've said before, the bloke oozes charisma and speaks exceptionally well but, what he needs to show now is his tactical nous.

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #406 on: January 22, 2020, 12:07:31 PM »
Chris Willock, although right footed, is listed on Transfermarkt as Primarily a left winger. Maybe we could give him a first team opportunity?

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/chris-willock/profil/spieler/314341

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #407 on: January 22, 2020, 12:20:36 PM »
With our full back issues and inability to keep the goals out I'm surprised we haven't tried 3 at the back. With what we have currently available I'd go:

                                  Bond

                  Ajayi        Bartley      Hegazi / Ferguson / O'Shea

Furlong            Livermore    Sawyers             Edwards

                                 Pereira

                             Austin   HRK

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #408 on: January 22, 2020, 12:59:22 PM »
If you take the Stoke game and how Stoke set up, you have to ask, which formation would have done better.  We ended up mainly slinging long high balls into their box which to be frank, didn't work. Certainly not if you are relying on HRK (not the tallest) and Zohore, who loses most of his individual duels.
I think the key was getting in around the outside and delivering crosses or cut backs. There were very few times we got past the last defender and did that. Phillips and Furlong a few times, but on the left side, there was only Townsend who can't do that.
So in those sort of games, the formation has to include 2 attacking wide players who can interchange with 2 attacking full backs which works best in a 4-2-3-1. 
We didn't play 4-2-3-1 against Stoke after Diangana went off, and even if he had stayed on, you need Gibbs or better to give you the width when attacking.
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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #409 on: January 22, 2020, 01:24:12 PM »
With Perreira looking like being suspended for the league games against Cardiff and Luton I'd go with something like this:

                       Johnstone


             Bartley   Ajayi   Hegazi           

Furlong                                        Brunt

          Phillips   Livermore  Sawyers

                          Kanu

                          Austin

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #410 on: January 22, 2020, 01:44:59 PM »
Everybody is saying buy a striker but I think our problem is in midfield.

I think Sawyers and Livermore are too much alike to play in the same team. They are both defensive midfielders. What we need is someone in midfield who will run at the defence like Barnes did last season. Periera does it sometimes but he is more of a creative midfielder.  my midfield would be either sawyers or livermore, periera, a winger maybe Philips and one other player who could run at the opposing defence.  Harper could have been the one but maybe try Edwards down the middle. Ideally get someone in who can do that job.  That would leave 2 up front.  So we would be playing a 4-4-2.

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #411 on: January 23, 2020, 03:05:39 PM »
if Bilic wants to pursue a 4-2-3-1 then the two options for the wide left position is either HRK or Chris Brunt.

Agree about finding width in advanced areas as teams are playing quite narrow in order to stifle Pereira and Sawyers - although Pereira being suspended changes things again.

Everybody is saying buy a striker but I think our problem is in midfield.


I agree that the midfield isn't functioning that well and in light of Pereira being out suspended, I'd like to see this change:

Johnstone

Furlong
Hegazi
Ajayi
Ferguson

Harper
Sawyers
Krovinovic

Phillips
Robson-Kanu
Edwards

This hopefully will give Sawyers some more space as both Krovinovic and arguably Harper are better at receiving the ball on the half turn than Livermore so should give the opposition more to think about. I think if we go for a three we do need players who can break the lines and Harper can certainly do that as can Krovinovic.

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #412 on: January 23, 2020, 03:38:13 PM »
Agree about finding width in advanced areas as teams are playing quite narrow in order to stifle Pereira and Sawyers - although Pereira being suspended changes things again.

I agree that the midfield isn't functioning that well and in light of Pereira being out suspended, I'd like to see this change:

Johnstone

Furlong
Hegazi
Ajayi
Ferguson

Harper
Sawyers
Krovinovic

Phillips
Robson-Kanu
Edwards

This hopefully will give Sawyers some more space as both Krovinovic and arguably Harper are better at receiving the ball on the half turn than Livermore so should give the opposition more to think about. I think if we go for a three we do need players who can break the lines and Harper can certainly do that as can Krovinovic.

But who in that midfield can tackle? Far too lightweight in my opinion. Replace  Harper for Livermore and it looks better.
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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #413 on: January 23, 2020, 04:59:52 PM »
I would go for adding a bit more experience for the next couple of games as I think we need it to help improve our mentality:                 

                           Johnstone

Furlong       Bartley          Hegazi          Ferguson

                  Livermore           Barry

        Phillips           Sawyers              Brunt

                               Austin

SUBS: Ajayi, Krovinovic, HRK, Edwards, Zohore, Harper, Bond

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #414 on: January 23, 2020, 05:57:43 PM »
I would go for adding a bit more experience for the next couple of games as I think we need it to help improve our mentality:                 

                           Johnstone

Furlong       Bartley          Hegazi          Ferguson

                  Livermore           Barry

        Phillips           Sawyers              Brunt

                               Austin

SUBS: Ajayi, Krovinovic, HRK, Edwards, Zohore, Harper, Bond
Brunt and Barry should have been spliced in more at the beginning of December when we were still full of confidence, but hopefully they can do a shoring up job now.

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #415 on: January 23, 2020, 06:51:44 PM »
I would go for adding a bit more experience for the next couple of games as I think we need it to help improve our mentality:                 

                           Johnstone

Furlong       Bartley          Hegazi          Ferguson

                  Livermore           Barry

        Phillips           Sawyers              Brunt

                               Austin

SUBS: Ajayi, Krovinovic, HRK, Edwards, Zohore, Harper, Bond
This must be quite close to the slowest team we could possibly put out from the players at our disposal.

gazberg

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #416 on: January 23, 2020, 06:52:47 PM »
Agreed, can't have Brunt, Barry and Livemore starting for me. They will have rings ran around them.

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #417 on: January 23, 2020, 09:13:51 PM »
Agree about finding width in advanced areas as teams are playing quite narrow in order to stifle Pereira and Sawyers - although Pereira being suspended changes things again.

I agree that the midfield isn't functioning that well and in light of Pereira being out suspended, I'd like to see this change:

Johnstone

Furlong
Hegazi
Ajayi
Ferguson

Harper
Sawyers
Krovinovic

Phillips
Robson-Kanu
Edwards

This hopefully will give Sawyers some more space as both Krovinovic and arguably Harper are better at receiving the ball on the half turn than Livermore so should give the opposition more to think about. I think if we go for a three we do need players who can break the lines and Harper can certainly do that as can Krovinovic.

I like that team the other option is 3 5 2 with width from wingbacks Austin and HRK up top sawyers barry krovonovic as middle 3
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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #418 on: January 24, 2020, 01:13:47 AM »
Over the next couple of weeks in the absence of Pereira we are patching things up as with absence of Diangana we have two options either keep the same basic shape and drop in the best alternative we have or change shape.

If we are keeping a 4-2-3-1 then putting Harper into the 10 role seems to be most sensible option.

For me Sawyers and Krovinovic doesn't work as a combination they are essentially both play makers the only difference being where they have typically played on the pitch either deep lying or advanced.

If I was to go down the path of a 4-3-3

It might look like this

Johnstone

Furlong
O'Shea
Bartley
Townsend

Livermore
Ajayi

Sawyers

Robson-Kanu
Austin
Phillips

I am inverting the wingers. I could be persuaded to swap Phillips for Edwards or Willock. Ajayi is there to add athleticism to the midfield and to provide cover for the full backs who are going to be providing the attacking width. O'Shea is in for Hegazi on the basis he can pass a football.

I fully accept this not an optimal solution and I not sure I like the amount of change in personnel required but we are were we are and some sort of alternative is required.

 
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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #419 on: January 25, 2020, 07:52:08 PM »
Agreed, can't have Brunt, Barry and Livemore starting for me. They will have rings ran around them.

Well, two of them started today away to a Prem team and it worked out OK. I don't think Livermore being in the side as well would throw the balance of the team out that much to make it have rings ran around them in the Championship.

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #420 on: January 25, 2020, 08:15:41 PM »
They struggled. I don't think they did particularly well. They did try their best though.

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #421 on: January 25, 2020, 08:42:01 PM »
They struggled. I don't think they did particularly well. They did try their best though.

They didn't struggle at all, even when we went down to 10 men.

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #422 on: January 25, 2020, 08:43:33 PM »
They did to my eyes. Barry looked shot within about 15 minutes.

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #423 on: January 25, 2020, 09:04:22 PM »
They did to my eyes. Barry looked shot within about 15 minutes.

Sure. Barry was excellent and we dominated most of the play bar the last 10 minutes, but that was understandable.

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #424 on: January 25, 2020, 09:12:17 PM »
We saw things differently let's leave it at that.

Agree we dominated play but i don't put that down to those 2 in particular.