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Author Topic: System tactics personnel  (Read 10767 times)

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Offline johnny Cash

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #200 on: March 14, 2019, 12:51:43 PM »
You make some very good points Greg but don't get too hung up on the possession stats. Shan set us up to deliberately invite Swansea to have the lion's share of possession so the outcome stats were inevitable. I think last night was a pragmatic win at all costs performance and we managed to do so. I take the positives from that. What is blatantly clear is that we need a new man at the helm, and quickly, who fully understands this division tactically. I would also disagree about Tosin. Given his background he is a very poor passer of the ball IMO.

The problem with conceding possession is you have to be good defensively. We conceded possession last night and still allowed them to have 7 or 8 very good chances. That is poor.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 01:02:52 PM by johnny Cash »

Offline Standaman

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #201 on: March 15, 2019, 09:07:47 PM »
I wouldn't normally comment on a one off game because there is often very specific circumstances and we are looking at a caretaker coach who isn't going to be around beyond one or two games however the game offers a very obvious counterpoint to what had gone before. 

We ditched any pretence of a passing game. Shape was a very deep sitting 4-2-3-1 with Gayle playing the lone striker who was isolated and largely ineffective. A double pivot of Brunt and Livermore sat in front of a back four. Transitions were laboured although not as laboured as they were against Ipswich.

Swansea (let's be honest not a team of household names) passed us off the park box to box but were pretty ineffective in both boxes although had McBurnie been on the pitch I doubt we have got away with a clean sheet. We defended in numbers but individually like much of the time under Pulis we didn't defend well and constantly gifting the opposition possession only ever invites pressure.

If the squad can only play that way it is plainly nowhere the best squad in the league as some claim and the sooner it is broken up the better.

« Last Edit: March 15, 2019, 10:49:11 PM by Standaman »
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Offline Droitwich Baggie

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #202 on: March 15, 2019, 09:43:54 PM »
I wouldn't normally comment on a one off game because there is often very specific circumstances and we are looking at a caretaker coach who isn't going to be around beyond one or two games however the game offers a very obvious counterpoint to what had gone before. 

We ditched any pretence of a passing game. Shape was a very deep sitting 4-2-3-1 with Gayle playing the lone striker who was isolated and largely ineffective. A double pivot of Brunt and Livermore sat in front of a back four. Transitions were laboured although not as laboured as they were against Ipswich.

Swansea (let's be honest not a team of household names) passed us off the park box to box but were pretty ineffective in both boxes although had McBurnie been on the pitch I doubt we have got away with a clean sheet. We defended in numbers but individually like much of the time under Pulis we didn't defend well and constantly gifting the opposition possession only ever invites pressure.

If the squad can only play that way it is plainly nowhere the best squad in the league as some claim and the sooner it is broken up the better.

I   
This is what I said during the game and after.
The players have to train to pass.
Pass and go should be the way, together with making themselves available for the next pass.
Also they must expect the ball from ANY where.

Offline baggiejohn

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #203 on: March 15, 2019, 10:11:39 PM »
This is what I said during the game and after.
The players have to train to pass.
Pass and go should be the way, together with making themselves available for the next pass.
Also they must expect the ball from ANY where.

I thought "all things to all men" was a failed Graeme Jones strategy.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

Offline Droitwich Baggie

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #204 on: March 15, 2019, 10:13:45 PM »
I thought "all things to all men" was a failed Graeme Jones strategy.
Strange reply.
Why do you say that?
I was saying that our players have to learn how to pass to one another.

Offline baggiejohn

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #205 on: March 15, 2019, 10:35:01 PM »
Strange reply.
Why do you say that?
I was saying that our players have to learn how to pass to one another.

This is what you said

"Also they must expect the ball from ANY where."

That suggests an "all things to all men" strategy.

Fluidity & multi option is a fine intent, but in a fast moving sport, carries major risk, as our previous coaching staff found out to their cost.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

Offline The Black Pearl

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #206 on: March 15, 2019, 10:35:39 PM »
This is what I said during the game and after.
The players have to train to pass.
Pass and go should be the way, together with making themselves available for the next pass.
Also they must expect the ball from ANY where.

Here in lies the problem, passing a football was neglected by Pulis, it will take a long while to re gain a passing philosophy, it was ironic that we faced Swansea, a side built now and in the past on the passing game, I remember in our promotion to the Premier League around 10 years ago, we went to Swansea for a mid week game, they passed us off the park but we won 1-0, not much changes does it?
But I think we all want to see an effective passing Albion side.
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Offline Droitwich Baggie

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #207 on: March 15, 2019, 10:40:55 PM »
This is what you said

"Also they must expect the ball from ANY where."

That suggests an "all things to all men" strategy.

Fluidity & multi option is a fine intent, but in a fast moving sport, carries major risk, as our previous coaching staff found out to their cost.
Cheers for thge explaination.
But what stops our players expecting a ball (also miskicked) rather than being surprised that it has come to them and then dawdle and can't react?

Offline baggiejohn

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #208 on: March 15, 2019, 11:05:05 PM »
Cheers for thge explaination.
But what stops our players expecting a ball (also miskicked) rather than being surprised that it has come to them and then dawdle and can't react?


Not sure I'm seeing that.

Most of our players receiving a ball have asked for it, or see an opportunity for an interception.

At games, I'm not seeing too many misplaced passes, although I will admit we do sometimes have a problem with getting the correct weight of pass.

If you're refering to passes in the final third & around the penalty area, I think (at our level) you have to expect a low percentage of success. IMO you have to have a special type of player to pull those off on a regular basis. Man City, Chelsea etc pay a lot of money, both for & to players of that calibre.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

Offline Droitwich Baggie

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #209 on: March 15, 2019, 11:19:27 PM »
Unfortunately, a lot of players are just not concentrating.
They have tunnel vision and can be drawn into the melee (dragged to where the crowd is) rather than making them selves available and thinking "Oops, I must watch the ball". I have noticed over too many years and too many games, how often the ball goes past (headed or flicked) all the players from a corner over to the other side of the pitch. No one seems to be prepared to react. They must learn to expect the unexpected (miskicks etc.).
We can exploit this by having a player far wide from that corner kick.

Offline Standaman

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Re: System tactics personnel
« Reply #210 on: March 16, 2019, 09:06:19 AM »
The key to anything other than Pulisball is passing be that from the back or through the midfield after a turnover of possession. The basic technique is not difficult or put it this way if a kid in the under 14's can't master it then he would have little hope of making the Under 15's. 

The key is movement and movement that anticipates the pass rather than movement from one fixed position to another. Swansea had this we didn't. When this group of players is under stress they stop moving they take up fixed defensive positions and stop showing for passes the options for the player on the ball reduce they either give the ball away or attempt the impossible pass a booming 40 yard cross field ball that seldom works but looks good when it comes off.

This seems to be deeply entrenched in this group of players DNA and new arrivals seem to quickly become infected by it. I fear for any coach who tries to change this without the very necessary clear out. 
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