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Author Topic: 20 Oct 2018 Wigan Athletic 1 Albion 0  (Read 12830 times)

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Offline albion59

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #125 on: October 20, 2018, 05:43:03 PM »
Performance wise, at least half of our games have been "bad days at the office" this season, but we've been lucky to be bailed out by the quality of Barnes and Gayle. In the long-term, we can't always afford to rely on them if we're serious about automatic promotion. That's why it's not good enough - this is one of the few away games this season where the result has reflected the performance.
Well Barnes and Gayle weren't very effective today was They?

Offline KN22

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #126 on: October 20, 2018, 05:46:04 PM »
I find the negativity rather annoying. It was poor today but we would all have been delighted at the start of the season to find ourselves in third place after 13 games. There are issues for sure but I agree with the bad day at office comments. On to Wednesday....

Offline iwastherein68

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #127 on: October 20, 2018, 05:54:18 PM »
No one covered themselves in glory but that was as cynical a performance as I've seen from anyone by Wigan today. As stated you come away slightly pleased with sending off but not much else. Barnes squandered our best moments through lack of composure and or vision but we certainly deserved a point.


The ref was terrible. I can't believe how bad these Championship referees are.
Can't believe you wrote that Jacko.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 10:04:39 PM by iwastherein68 »
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Offline wodenson46

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #128 on: October 20, 2018, 06:00:08 PM »
Out come the knives. Bad day at the office we are not going to beat everyone easily we will have off days today was one of them, get up dust themselves off and go again Wednesday.
Exactly. Ok so long term issues still exist - the midfield is still slow to get forward and to recover,  so the defence who do not seem to know anything about each other get left isolated and vulnerable to anyone who can run at them. But we have not yet lost many games and the ones we have lost are usually by the only goal. There will always be games like this, unbeaten runs come to an end so move on and get better next time.  I think we all feel that some of the younger players deserve a chance, and that team selections and tactics might be more obviously game changing, but so far I am very happy with what this club is putting in front of us supporters.

Offline WBArgo

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #129 on: October 20, 2018, 06:39:33 PM »
Probably our worst performance of the season, in all the other losses and draws, we've at least posed an attacking threat, whereas today we offered very little, whilst keeping our leaky defence.

Hopefully it's a blip; thankfully we haven't played like this at all this season as we've always had creativity.
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Offline baggie82

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #130 on: October 20, 2018, 08:11:04 PM »
Poor performance similar to a lot of our away games, except Wigan are actually a decent side so we got punished. It’s ground hog day watching us make the same tactical and individual mistakes each week. Tough game against Derby now. Needs to use the squad more.

Offline Hull Baggie

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #131 on: October 20, 2018, 08:22:02 PM »
Sluggish and slow all over the pitch' the International break did us no favours. Barnes was anonymous as was Gayle mostly. Rodriguez coming very deep to try and get things started. Did we even have any attempts at goal? I can remember a Barnes shot into row Z in the second half but struggling for any others.

Brunt was okay but his corner(s) were back to being poor again.

Oddly I thought we looked better defensively especially in the first half.Hope Dawson is fit for Wednesday although Adabarioyo was okay when he came on and at least took a few quick throw ins to try and get us going. Poor defending from Hegazi for the goal.

A very cynical display from Wigan, going down under every challenge to stop us getting any momentum.

Stupid from Livermore for the second booking and one of the few decisions the ref got right. Have to agree with Jacko about the shocking standard of refs in the Championship.

Happy with 3rd but it could have been so much better. We do need to change something away though.
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Offline AlbionBest

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #132 on: October 20, 2018, 08:27:26 PM »
Out come the knives. Bad day at the office we are not going to beat everyone easily we will have off days today was one of them, get up dust themselves off and go again Wednesday.

You make it sound as if it was a one-off ?

Obviously you missed Sheffield, Forest and Birmingham where just about got away with a point despite being outplayed ?
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Offline Albion_Sweden

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #133 on: October 20, 2018, 08:55:41 PM »
Lets face it, we have been very lucky in so far this season. I have been very worried about DM team selection all season. We cant play Brunt as CM if we want to win this league and obviously Mears shouldnt start. Hopefully today is a wake up call for DM. COYB








Offline albion59

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #134 on: October 20, 2018, 09:02:57 PM »
You make it sound as if it was a one-off ?

Obviously you missed Sheffield, Forest and Birmingham where just about got away with a point despite being outplayed ?
obvious? please don't presume to know what i have seen or missed.

Offline dan7heman

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #135 on: October 20, 2018, 09:11:59 PM »
When ever we take an away following like today, we always fail to turn up. This has happened so many times. Sad for all those that went.
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Offline CL3MO

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #136 on: October 20, 2018, 09:22:59 PM »
What a waste of £60.

I can take having 'off' days in the Championship but how many away games have we seen such inept performances from players and staff this season?

Problems? The system isn't working away from home. We're not getting our strikers in the game. Teams that play 442 and press have caused us all sorts of problems.

Mears is a very, very poor player at this level. If the management cannot see this, then I am utterly bemused. Can anybody name a 35 year wing back? I can't think of many as the position requires fitness levels and positional sense of the highest order.

My biggest gripe is how 'reactive' Moore is. Only when he is forced to will he make changes to try and change the game. Taking Gayle off was absolutely farcical. You're 1-0 down and you take off our out and out goal scorer? I thought Rodriguez was woeful and if a striker should have been taken off, it should have been him.

Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #137 on: October 20, 2018, 09:24:46 PM »
Well Barnes and Gayle weren't very effective today was They?

...hence us losing today. You’ve basically, unwittingly, confirmed you agree with his point.

Made my views on Darren and his tactical acumen many times previously so not point me giving my view on this game which was exactly like every other away performance this season minus us having the luck to get away with it.

Offline Albion_Sweden

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #138 on: October 20, 2018, 09:45:07 PM »
As I have said before, we have been very lucky so far this season,hopefully DM Will learn but I doubt it, having heard him praising Mears performances 😱. Very worried he is not ready for this role. COYB

Offline WBArgo

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #139 on: October 20, 2018, 09:47:31 PM »
You make it sound as if it was a one-off ?

Obviously you missed Sheffield, Forest and Birmingham where just about got away with a point despite being outplayed ?

I understand your point, but at least in the games you've mentioned we attacked well and scored goals, whereas today we lacked any attack. Against Forest and Birmingham we hit the bar at 1-1 as well so could have potentially won those games, which shows how creative we can be. For the record, we could, and possibly should have lost those games had they taken their chances.

However, my point is you can't really compare today to those performances - as today was far worse. For all our dodgy defending and naive play at times, we've always looked dangerous this season, whereas today we were completely flat.

As said by others, hopefully it was just a bad day attacking wise.
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Offline smudger 2007

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #140 on: October 20, 2018, 09:51:58 PM »
Brunt centre mid never has been never will be. Meats never good enough for this level at this stage of his career drop these two. We win the league quite simple really.

Offline Albion_Sweden

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #141 on: October 20, 2018, 09:59:51 PM »
Agree , sort it DM , do not play Brunt cm and do not play Mears at all and we will probably be fine. So frustrating he cant see this. And ffs do not bring on HRK to replace Gayle
« Last Edit: October 20, 2018, 10:37:28 PM by OldburyWBA »

Offline Albion_Sweden

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #142 on: October 20, 2018, 10:10:07 PM »
crap I am angry tonight, give our young players a chance ffs, why are you not playing them , Edwards from 78 th minute aside. I loved Moore as a player but now I am really worried

Offline AlbionBest

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #143 on: October 20, 2018, 11:27:52 PM »
obvious? please don't presume to know what i have seen or missed.

Just a presumption based upon your glib statement seemingly ignoring those poor performances ?
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Offline Atomic

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #144 on: October 21, 2018, 03:47:31 AM »
Another away performance that was uninspiring. This has been the case all season. We've lost to Wigan Athletic and Middlesbrough and really should've lost at Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham City. We've had our fair share of luck this season and we've been rescued by the quality of a couple of individuals namely Harvey Barnes and Matty Phillips. At home we've pretty much deserved the points we've accumulated although we could've been three down to Bristol City before the aforementioned Barnes took over the show.

We have individuals that are better than other clubs in this league. Ahmed Hegazi, Craig Dawson, Phillips, Kieron Gibbs, Jake Livermore, Gareth Barry, Chris Brunt and Barnes are all players that have Premier League quality whilst Dwight Gayle is top Championship quality. These players have played in most games this season and it's the quality of those individuals that have got us results and not the quality of the team.

We are disjointed, a group of individuals rather than a team. If this continues we will not finish in the top two. Because of the quality of our individuals we will be around the top six for sure providing they all remain fit and we don't lose them for periods of time or in the transfer window.

The midfield is the biggest problem. Defensively we've struggled but a lot of that is to do with the middle of the park there is no solid base in front of the back three. It's been said all season and it is perfectly true, Chris Brunt is a very good footballer but he is not a central midfielder it is not in his nature to play there and he doesn't have the attributes to consistently play that position. Gareth Barry does have the attributes and we've looked better with him in the middle rather than Brunty but Barry is 37 years old, he doesn't have the legs. He can and will do a decent job in midfield but you cannot expect it all the time in the Championship at his age. Barry should be an option to play in midfield as should Sam Field and for me it's the biggest issue of the season that Field is not getting a look in. This is Darren Moore's biggest issue and biggest failing. Livermore has too much on his shoulders at times and at times it is affecting him. We are fine in wide areas with Gibbs and Phillips and Conor Townsend is a player we can get by with for a few games if Gibbs is absent. Everyone knows we need cover for Phillips, the club included, I'm certain this will be addressed in January.

Going forward we've scored goals for fun but there have been games where we've needed another option and haven't had it. We rely far too much on Barnes and Gayle. Jay Rodriguez has offered very little all season from open play and at times has been totally anonymous. When the guile and craft of Barnes is nullified we offer little threat. We could do with a "Mitrovic type" option at times, which we don't have at the club and there are times also, particularly late on in games where we've been holding a lead where we've been crying out for some real pace up front to give the opposition a problem rather than just inviting endless pressure like we did at home to Stoke for the last fifteen minutes or so. There will be more occasions as the season progresses where we're in a similar position. Oliver Burke and Bakary Sako are potential options as the season progresses.
Some of the weight needs lifting off Barnes's shoulders. James Morrison and Wes Hoolahan don't have the same qualities that Barnes has but they do offer a kind of creative threat that we may need to exploit more.

At the back, given the way we're playing and given the fact that we do not have a solid platform in front of them we're not actually doing that badly. We are conceding too many goals overall but this isn't just a reflection of the back three. Hegazi gets criticism which for me is not only ridiculous, it's plain baffling at times. Not only is his defending vastly under-rated particularly one on one, he is also by far the best of our three on the ball. The way we play doesn't really play to Dawson's strengths. Daws is at home in a deep lying defensive unit where his main job is to head the ball away, put in tackles and blocks and basically be a rock. He is excellent at that. His game isn't really suited to playing expansive football where he is expected to play on the ball BUT he is good enough to get away with it at Championship level. Kyle Bartley is the clear weak link in the back three. He is not particularly comfortable on the ball and his idea of marking is to wrap his arms round strikers or tug their shirts. We have been lucky not to have conceded more penalties than we have this season. We could do with an upgrade here.

Moving forward Darren Moore's biggest priorities are:

a) Sorting out the midfield. Field and Barry need to be the option alongside Livermore. Brunt cannot start games in the centre of midfield.

b) Finding other options up front when Barnes is nullified. Stop Barnes and you stop us creating. We then rely on moments of individualism, usually from Phillips.

c) Find a decent back up for Phillips in January.

d) Either get more out of Rodriguez in terms of his positive influence in open play over ninety minutes or find another alternative.

e) Find a left sided centre back that is better than Bartley.
 



« Last Edit: October 21, 2018, 03:49:39 AM by Atomic »

Offline beechyboy90

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #145 on: October 21, 2018, 07:56:35 AM »
Another away performance that was uninspiring. This has been the case all season. We've lost to Wigan Athletic and Middlesbrough and really should've lost at Nottingham Forest, Sheffield Wednesday and Birmingham City. We've had our fair share of luck this season and we've been rescued by the quality of a couple of individuals namely Harvey Barnes and Matty Phillips. At home we've pretty much deserved the points we've accumulated although we could've been three down to Bristol City before the aforementioned Barnes took over the show.

We have individuals that are better than other clubs in this league. Ahmed Hegazi, Craig Dawson, Phillips, Kieron Gibbs, Jake Livermore, Gareth Barry, Chris Brunt and Barnes are all players that have Premier League quality whilst Dwight Gayle is top Championship quality. These players have played in most games this season and it's the quality of those individuals that have got us results and not the quality of the team.

We are disjointed, a group of individuals rather than a team. If this continues we will not finish in the top two. Because of the quality of our individuals we will be around the top six for sure providing they all remain fit and we don't lose them for periods of time or in the transfer window.

The midfield is the biggest problem. Defensively we've struggled but a lot of that is to do with the middle of the park there is no solid base in front of the back three. It's been said all season and it is perfectly true, Chris Brunt is a very good footballer but he is not a central midfielder it is not in his nature to play there and he doesn't have the attributes to consistently play that position. Gareth Barry does have the attributes and we've looked better with him in the middle rather than Brunty but Barry is 37 years old, he doesn't have the legs. He can and will do a decent job in midfield but you cannot expect it all the time in the Championship at his age. Barry should be an option to play in midfield as should Sam Field and for me it's the biggest issue of the season that Field is not getting a look in. This is Darren Moore's biggest issue and biggest failing. Livermore has too much on his shoulders at times and at times it is affecting him. We are fine in wide areas with Gibbs and Phillips and Conor Townsend is a player we can get by with for a few games if Gibbs is absent. Everyone knows we need cover for Phillips, the club included, I'm certain this will be addressed in January.

Going forward we've scored goals for fun but there have been games where we've needed another option and haven't had it. We rely far too much on Barnes and Gayle. Jay Rodriguez has offered very little all season from open play and at times has been totally anonymous. When the guile and craft of Barnes is nullified we offer little threat. We could do with a "Mitrovic type" option at times, which we don't have at the club and there are times also, particularly late on in games where we've been holding a lead where we've been crying out for some real pace up front to give the opposition a problem rather than just inviting endless pressure like we did at home to Stoke for the last fifteen minutes or so. There will be more occasions as the season progresses where we're in a similar position. Oliver Burke and Bakary Sako are potential options as the season progresses.
Some of the weight needs lifting off Barnes's shoulders. James Morrison and Wes Hoolahan don't have the same qualities that Barnes has but they do offer a kind of creative threat that we may need to exploit more.

At the back, given the way we're playing and given the fact that we do not have a solid platform in front of them we're not actually doing that badly. We are conceding too many goals overall but this isn't just a reflection of the back three. Hegazi gets criticism which for me is not only ridiculous, it's plain baffling at times. Not only is his defending vastly under-rated particularly one on one, he is also by far the best of our three on the ball. The way we play doesn't really play to Dawson's strengths. Daws is at home in a deep lying defensive unit where his main job is to head the ball away, put in tackles and blocks and basically be a rock. He is excellent at that. His game isn't really suited to playing expansive football where he is expected to play on the ball BUT he is good enough to get away with it at Championship level. Kyle Bartley is the clear weak link in the back three. He is not particularly comfortable on the ball and his idea of marking is to wrap his arms round strikers or tug their shirts. We have been lucky not to have conceded more penalties than we have this season. We could do with an upgrade here.

Moving forward Darren Moore's biggest priorities are:

a) Sorting out the midfield. Field and Barry need to be the option alongside Livermore. Brunt cannot start games in the centre of midfield.

b) Finding other options up front when Barnes is nullified. Stop Barnes and you stop us creating. We then rely on moments of individualism, usually from Phillips.

c) Find a decent back up for Phillips in January.

d) Either get more out of Rodriguez in terms of his positive influence in open play over ninety minutes or find another alternative.

e) Find a left sided centre back that is better than Bartley.

Bang on the money for me that.
We have been lucky think of the penalties missed against us. How we got those 2 late goals at hilsborough still baffles me.

Brunt needs to play wide left so probably has to be on the bench unless we change system. Rodriguez has scored penalties and a couple from open play but has been largely disappointing (in contrast to last year especially).

If Phillips isn't fit and big dave don't want to play Edwards we should go back to a flat 4 at the back rather than persisting with mears.

Correct stop Barnes and Phillips you stop wba. Barnes has been expected to do it all whilst Phillips has been absent. Gayle is a goal scorer and match winner but will be absent for large periods of the game. You can't have him and Rodriguez both being quiet.

Darren Moore needs to utilise his squad better in particular use of sam field, Oliver Burke could be used to stretch the defences late on rather than playing HRK. I think hoolahan has been unlucky not to get game time. Moore has been too stubborn with his team and subs hopefully today was a wake up call and he learned from it.
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Offline WBAinDEVON

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #146 on: October 21, 2018, 12:58:20 PM »
oh well that killed of any hope of me traveling again anytime soon
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Offline SmethDan

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #147 on: October 21, 2018, 02:10:56 PM »
Have we won away yet in the beloved yellow/green away kit? We all knew these 6 games was going to challenge what the teams about, Today was lesson 1.

Preston, 2 - 3.
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If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
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Offline SmethDan

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #148 on: October 21, 2018, 02:33:12 PM »
Sluggish and slow all over the pitch' the International break did us no favours. Barnes was anonymous as was Gayle mostly. Rodriguez coming very deep to try and get things started. Did we even have any attempts at goal? I can remember a Barnes shot into row Z in the second half but struggling for any others.

Brunt was okay but his corner(s) were back to being poor again.

Oddly I thought we looked better defensively especially in the first half.Hope Dawson is fit for Wednesday although Adabarioyo was okay when he came on and at least took a few quick throw ins to try and get us going. Poor defending from Hegazi for the goal.

A very cynical display from Wigan, going down under every challenge to stop us getting any momentum.

Stupid from Livermore for the second booking and one of the few decisions the ref got right. Have to agree with Jacko about the shocking standard of refs in the Championship.

Happy with 3rd but it could have been so much better. We do need to change something away though.

Tosin left me less than impressed to be honest.

Casual in possession, weak in the challenge and out of position on several occasions.

As for the goal Hegazi could/should have done better.

Then again he wouldn't have found himself in bother had Tosin acquitted himself better in the first instance.

https://www.skysports.com/efl/championship/video/11530771/wigan-1-0-west-brom

Agree almost entirely regarding the cretinous fkwhit entrusted with the whistle.

However, I thought Livermore's second yellow was a bit harsh given the general leeway extended to Wigan throughout.

Very niggly team that's very much in the mould of their manager when he was player.

Capable of some really good football and 'blessed' with a working knowledge of the darker side of the game.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
Oh, and always remember to defecate on those Vile chaps in claret and spew.

Offline alex1

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Re: After Match Debate
« Reply #149 on: October 21, 2018, 07:10:03 PM »
Disappointing especially as I don't think Wigan are anything special. Can't say I'd want any of their players, but their manager has got them scrapping for every ball (sometimes too literally!).
Think we really missed Phillips who can offer so much more threat right side. However, we had difficulty creating chances for the forwards. Brunt can pick a dangerous through  pass, but hasn't the legs to dribble the ball forwards. Livermore has his limitations but does important work closing off gaps in front of the defence. Maybe Field should be given a chance v Derby, but still not convinced what he offers going forward.
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