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Offline Backofthenet

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2018, 01:27:34 PM »
When did football become so complicated. Surely a manager knows (or should know) the players and type of player he wants. After all he is responsible for building the team and is judged on the results. That being the case why is someone else having the say. Yes it's impossible for a manager to cover the globe in person but I would have thought he would have recruited various people who would have been well briefed as to his requirements and then if there was real interest he would go himself and have a couple of looks to verify.
People with fancy titles don't win games but they do drain finance.
The job as throw in coach at Liverpool is a clear indication of where football is going. For crying out loud - all of us know how to take a throw in. Get your feet behind the line, two hands on the ball and 'surprise' throw in in - preferably to one of your own players. That's why its called a throw in !! 

Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2018, 01:52:47 PM »
As the fan of a club notoriously bad at throw ins for the entire 25 plus years of me following a dedicated coach sounds just the thing up the Albion. But I digress.
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Offline Albionic

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2018, 02:08:01 PM »
As the fan of a club notoriously bad at throw ins for the entire 25 plus years of me following a dedicated coach sounds just the thing up the Albion. But I digress.

"notoriously bad", where is this notoriety documented pray tell?
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Offline maccbaggie

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2018, 02:50:10 PM »
I did wonder at the time how relevant the appointment was.  Terraneo's CV boasted the likes of Lazio, Inter Milan and most recently Fernerbache for whome he signed Van Persi and Nani.  How many players in his little black book would be suitable for a newly relegated West Brom FC in the Black Country?  What level of players from Serie A would be keen to move to a club in the midlands who no longer pay top level salaries.  Always struck me as a bit of a vanity appointment by the Chinese owners.   

At this point I would put my trust in Moore, who knows the kind of player he needs for his team.  A good DF will be presenting the manager with options based on HIS requirements both technically but more importantly in regards to character and personality. 
I agree entirely that the appointment of Terraneo was the wrong one, and it is right that he was marginalised - it's clear from his time at Fernerbahce that he signed players based on name and reputation rather than current or potential footballing ability.

However, limiting our recruitment to the English leagues will make it much harder to get value for money on players, and restricts our market of potential signings massively. A wider recruitment policy has worked well for us previously in the Championship, signing players like Robert Koren on a free.

With the highlighted comment, are you suggesting that a non-British player would not have the right character or personality?

Offline BigFrank20

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2018, 03:53:04 PM »
As the fan of a club notoriously bad at throw ins for the entire 25 plus years of me following a dedicated coach sounds just the thing up the Albion. But I digress.
"notoriously bad", where is this notoriety documented pray tell?
I'm with Jacko here. I was convinced Pulis and the other idjut had a hard and fast rule that only whoever was playing at full back was allowed to take a throw in. Now at least we are not waiting for a full back to amble up and lob it in somewhere (mostly because we don't seem to have any fullbacks anymore!)
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Offline Albionic

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2018, 04:04:59 PM »
Well I have never seen anything or anyone decry our ability to take throw ins. (until now)
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Offline BigFrank20

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #31 on: September 04, 2018, 04:13:55 PM »
Well I have never seen anything or anyone decry our ability to take throw ins. (until now)
Here you go  ;)
No, not part of the squad. Even his throw ins were bad on Saturday. Livermore kept telling him off.
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Offline Albionic

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #32 on: September 04, 2018, 04:33:17 PM »
Here you go  ;)

Hardly notorious is it, one throw away comment from 17GD !

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Offline Baggies

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #33 on: September 04, 2018, 04:39:26 PM »
When did football become so complicated. Surely a manager knows (or should know) the players and type of player he wants. After all he is responsible for building the team and is judged on the results. That being the case why is someone else having the say. Yes it's impossible for a manager to cover the globe in person but I would have thought he would have recruited various people who would have been well briefed as to his requirements and then if there was real interest he would go himself and have a couple of looks to verify.
People with fancy titles don't win games but they do drain finance.
The job as throw in coach at Liverpool is a clear indication of where football is going. For crying out loud - all of us know how to take a throw in. Get your feet behind the line, two hands on the ball and 'surprise' throw in in - preferably to one of your own players. That's why its called a throw in !!

Football became complicated when it became a globilised multi billion pound industry. Clubs spend more money now to get an advantage on their rivals and clubs have become more professional. Football clubs are no longer run like small businesses, they have grown and now have more specialised roles.

If Moore needs to manage the scouting department and co-ordinate which targets get more attention etc, it takes him away from planning for the next match. I want Moore to pay attention to our opponents weaknesses and also train our players to fit into his desired formation etc. I also don't want somebody in charge of transfer business who takes a short termist approach like Pulis used to. Managers will scout players for the here and now because they need instant success to keep their jobs. A director of football knows he has more time so can put in place more long term plans. He also takes the burden away from managers, freeing them up to coach and study the opposition.

As for a throw in coach, apparantly there is a move amongst the top clubs to hire "restart coaches" who specialise in goalkicks, kick offs and throw ins as there are around 50 or so per game so they want to gain an advantage from them (the marginal gains principal). I understand the idea and I have no problem with the principal, but i'm not sure why it needs a dedicated coach. All it really needs is a consultancy period working with the manager and coaches so that they can learn the best practice. Surely the coaches will then be able to take that away and develop it. That is their job as coaches after all.
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 04:41:42 PM by Baggies »
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Offline Backofthenet

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #34 on: September 04, 2018, 04:48:29 PM »
Thanks for that Baggies - explains a lot to me. I'm probably a bit to 'Old School' for all this.
Probably because I realised football was in existence way before the Premier League and there are more than a supposed elite 20 clubs who actually play this game.
However I can see the total sense in your reasoning about coaches for certain situations. I suppose times have changed but not always for the better.
Cheers

Offline Baggies

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #35 on: September 04, 2018, 04:53:57 PM »
Thanks for that Baggies - explains a lot to me. I'm probably a bit to 'Old School' for all this.
Probably because I realised football was in existence way before the Premier League and there are more than a supposed elite 20 clubs who actually play this game.
However I can see the total sense in your reasoning about coaches for certain situations. I suppose times have changed but not always for the better.
Cheers

Football lost a lot of it's charm when money became the main driver. The day the likes of Ajax, Red star belgrade, Celtic, Malmo and the lesser lights of the top leagues like Hamburg, Sampdoria and Everton started to fade away, was when you knew football had changed beyond repair
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Offline Oldbury24

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #36 on: September 04, 2018, 05:08:44 PM »
I agree entirely that the appointment of Terraneo was the wrong one, and it is right that he was marginalised - it's clear from his time at Fernerbahce that he signed players based on name and reputation rather than current or potential footballing ability.

However, limiting our recruitment to the English leagues will make it much harder to get value for money on players, and restricts our market of potential signings massively. A wider recruitment policy has worked well for us previously in the Championship, signing players like Robert Koren on a free.

With the highlighted comment, are you suggesting that a non-British player would not have the right character or personality?

Nope! I'm saying that there is more to signing a player than statistics and technical ability.  What is his motivation for joining the club, does he have a good reputation as a team man, is he a natural leader or somebody open to new ideas?  I'm sure if a DoF offered Darren Moore a Gera, Koren or Mulumbu he would take them based on their ability and reputation regardless of nationality. 

Offline Standaman

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2018, 06:36:09 AM »
Possible name being linked with the role Luke Dowling currently Forest's Technical Director ex Watford although only joined Forest in January although some suggestion that he has been sidelined because of the ownership's close working relationship with Mendes. 

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/09/05/nottingham-forest-sporting-director-luke-dowling-reportedly-on-west-broms-radar/
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Offline Baggies

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #38 on: September 06, 2018, 04:25:13 PM »
Hard to judge if Dowling is a good fit based on the available facts.

On the one side, he was the youngest director of football in the premier league when Watford first got promoted and he has overseen a couple of good years there. Equally, he was offered a new contract at the club but turned it down "to explore new opportunities". He clearly had experience so may seem a safer bet to the board.

On the flip side, Watford do not seem to have fought tooth and nail to keep him which we would have done to keep Ashworth, and his exit does not seem to have harmed Watford. The fact he chose to leave there in the first place could be explained by him not feeling he had enough influence, as Watford are run by the Pozzi family alongside sister clubs Udinese and Grenada and their business often seems to run along the same lines. If he didn't have all that much influence, ala Hammond and Terraneo when they were here, it is hard to judge how much he influenced Watford's rise.

Equally, Forest have brought him in now but then sodelined him quite quick. Can we take anything from that? Probably harsh as their new owner came in after he arrived by the looks of it and has gone down the Wolves route.

It might be the right move but I don't have much faith in a club that have made poor appointment after poor appointment since Ashworth left, mostly by Jenkins, culminating in brining in Hammond simply on the basis that he was experienced (but at what exactly, he never established Reading in the prem despite an extended period in charge?).

My preference would have been a more imaginative move, maybe headhunting a top academy director from the UK or abroad and offering them a payrise or promotion, or maybe even looking abroad for a successful tech director from a club with less financial clout in France or Germany.

Still, if he comes in, I will just cross my fingers that he was the best choice after an exhaustive process, and that there were things we wouldn't know about him that have impressed Jenkins and whoever else makes decisions at the club now.
Boing Boing

Offline 1954

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #39 on: September 06, 2018, 06:00:07 PM »
With no scouting network to speak of seems sensible that Darren stuck to British Isles for players . Once DoF is in place and scouts are sourced then Big Dave will set his net further I imagine.
We were told by Nick Hammond at a Shareholders for Albion meeting that he was expanding our scouting network and he mentioned the number of increased staff being appointed (can't remember the  numbers but it was not insignificant). Anybody know if following our relegation we have short sightedly cut the numbers (apart from Hammond himself☺)

Offline kirk

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #40 on: September 07, 2018, 06:47:41 AM »
Judging by our last signing and the people who are training with us I think our scouts are spending all their time at the Chelsea pensioners accommodation
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Offline baggie96

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #41 on: September 08, 2018, 09:03:46 PM »
Heard Lee Darnborough is in the frame, used to work for us when Ashworth was here

Offline Standaman

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #42 on: September 09, 2018, 08:52:06 AM »
Lee Darnborough? That really would be getting the band back together.

Since leaving us in 2012 he has worked in various Analyst/Scouting roles for Burnley,Norwich and he is currently at Hull City. To be honest I simply don't know what to make of that CV.

At Burnley not sure what the role was nor what credit he could claim for their relative success. At Norwich (2015 to 2017)  he was described as Chief Scout working for Tony Spearing (ex Albion Head of European Scouting)  who was Head of Recruitment. Both were shown the door when Norwich appointed a new Technical Director in April 2017.

Darnborough then moves to Hull as Head of Recruitment and has had 2 summers there. He has zero budget and a need to reduce the wage bill so getting eleven players out on the pitch is probably an achievement. Incidentally to complete the Albion old boys update Stuart White is also a scout at Hull.

Not sure what to make of it. He has survived so must have a decent reputation in the game people who have worked with him the past have hired him and by the looks of it promoted him to bigger roles which they don't do if he is lazy and or incompetent.     
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Offline Baggies

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #43 on: September 10, 2018, 12:05:26 AM »
Darnborough would be another appointment like the Garlick one - shoe horn somebody in who you know from working with them in the past and ignoring their lack of experience or evidence he is poorly suited.
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Offline Signor_Maresca

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #44 on: September 10, 2018, 04:04:01 PM »
Lee Darnborough was seriously rated when he was at the Albion.  The club were gutted when he left.  Don't know too much about him to be honest nor how he has done since leaving us.

Coincidentally Stuart White now of Hull tweeted the other day "had some great news today about a good friend who has been through a lot and deserves the big break he's just had.  One club's loss is definitely another club's gain in this case".  James Shan was one of the first people to 'like' the tweet.  Obviously this could relate to a million and one things and is more than likely completely unrelated.  But you never know.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 04:07:10 PM by Signor_Maresca »
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Offline stoxman

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #45 on: September 11, 2018, 09:44:27 PM »
The thow in coach is easy to mock but when we suspend reality for a moment, all of football becomes slightly ridiculous doesn’t it?  A goal keeping coach who spends 4 hours a day telling a 35 year old bloke who has been a goalie for 25 years that he needs to stop shots, catch corners and shout a bit??

For me, a throw in coach makes as much sense (in the bonkers world of football) as anything else.   It’s all about fine margins and if you take a £50m player on £100k per week and can squeeze that little bit out of him that can add 5 assists and 5 goals a season out of the team, that’s a bargain even if you pay him £200k a year.  In fact, to not pay that it’s like having a Ferrari and running it on paraffin.

Offline Droitwich Baggie

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #46 on: September 11, 2018, 10:22:16 PM »
The thow in coach is easy to mock but when we suspend reality for a moment, all of football becomes slightly ridiculous doesn’t it?  A goal keeping coach who spends 4 hours a day telling a 35 year old bloke who has been a goalie for 25 years that he needs to stop shots, catch corners and shout a bit??

For me, a throw in coach makes as much sense (in the bonkers world of football) as anything else.   It’s all about fine margins and if you take a £50m player on £100k per week and can squeeze that little bit out of him that can add 5 assists and 5 goals a season out of the team, that’s a bargain even if you pay him £200k a year.  In fact, to not pay that it’s like having a Ferrari and running it on paraffin.
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Offline Hull Baggie

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2018, 07:45:38 AM »
As interesting as the debate about different coaches is, can we keep this thread to talk about our DoF please.
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Offline Wigmore

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2018, 12:16:45 AM »
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-6203445/West-Brom-primed-appoint-Luke-Dowling-new-technical-director.html

West Brom primed to appoint Luke Dowling as new technical director after closing in on compensation agreement with Nottingham Forest

Offline Wigmore

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