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Offline baggie96

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Director of Football
« on: September 01, 2018, 09:42:27 AM »
This should have been our second appointment this summer, after Moore. Assuming we will be appointing one as a matter of priority now. Steve Walsh would be the obvious choice, we need to actually get some sort of scouting system up and running ASAP as Terraneo sacked them all.

Offline divinewind

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2018, 10:07:43 AM »
We probably can't find one willing to do it for nothing.
There is an old saying, too many cook's spoil the broth, and that is our problem, plus most of the ones we employ aren't actually cooks.
Oh for the day's of a captain, a manager and get on with it.
Now any decision has to be made by an army of people. This is why everyone beats us to targets in the window.

Offline maccbaggie

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2018, 10:15:20 AM »
Appointing a Director of Football (supported by a strong, broad scouting network) is absolutely vital to the medium and long-term prospects of the club.

This is the structure that allowed us to make affordable, intelligent signings from around the world by making use of a broad scouting network, such as Mulumbu, Yacob, Odemwingie, Olsson, Koren and others. Compare this with the kind of short-term it signings we've made in recent years - Barry, Lambert, Livermore, Mears, Hal Robson-Kanu, etc.

The difference is we used to recruit younger, well-scouted players with relatively affordable fees and wages with the potential for improvement high re-sale value. This is a sustainable model that allows the club to over-achieve. In recent years, we have regressed to signing overrated, overpaid, domestically-based players who are past their best. This has ultimately resulted in our relegation, and a situation where next year we will require a mass overhall of the squad, probably with limited money from outgoings due to our ageing squad and reliance on loans.

The other benefit of a director of football (and a large scouting network) is you get a continuity in the club's approach regardless of a change in the head coach. This is something that served us well in the Mowbray, Di Matteo, Roy Hodgson and Steve Clarke years - we had an overall direction as a club: the head coach would identify areas in the team in need of improvement, and the recruitment team would come back with a number of well-scouted potential signings who could play in that position. The final decision would then be made by the Head Coach. This allowed us to build year on year.

Realtedly, the Director of Football played a role in giving us a footballing identity, meaning we recruited head coaches consistent with the type of players we were trying to sign and the type of football we wanted to play. Compare this to what has happened since Ashworth's departure (appointing Pardew to play attacking football with a squad incapable of doing it, and signing good footballers like James Chester who Pulis had no intention of playing in his correct position). Crucially, this highlights the importance of hiring the right Director of Football - not just anyone (as Burton was a disaster in the role due to a lack of contemporary footballing knowledge).


Offline maccbaggie

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2018, 10:18:26 AM »
We probably can't find one willing to do it for nothing.
There is an old saying, too many cook's spoil the broth, and that is our problem, plus most of the ones we employ aren't actually cooks.
Oh for the day's of a captain, a manager and get on with it.
Now any decision has to be made by an army of people. This is why everyone beats us to targets in the window.
What a load of rubbish. It was allowing Pulis to dismantle the scouting network that got us into this mess - singing ageing carthorses like Lambert, Barry, Fletcher et al. This meant that when Pulis left we were left unable to attempt any other type of football with success.

Under the DoF system, the head coach has final say on any player - but he's prevented from just signing his mates who haven't been scouted by a strong scouting network.

Offline AlbionBest

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2018, 10:22:45 AM »
All a bit too late now with the Window shutting !!!

But seriously, this really is such a key appointment for any major club and should have been virtually top of the agenda.
BRING BACK THE MIGHTY CRADLEY HEATHENS !

Offline WorcsWBA

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2018, 10:29:51 AM »
This should have been our second appointment this summer, after Moore. Assuming we will be appointing one as a matter of priority now. Steve Walsh would be the obvious choice, we need to actually get some sort of scouting system up and running ASAP as Terraneo sacked them all.
I think it should have been the first appointment actually, because the appointment of the Head Coach should be decided by the Director of Football, as the head coach position reports in to him.

Offline P Anderson

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2018, 10:33:02 AM »
100% agree maccbaggy, the day pulls stated he wanted to pick his own players to buy, should have set alarm bells ringing.
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Offline divinewind

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2018, 10:42:42 AM »
If we have no intention of spending any money then good scouts are a must. We used to have the best. All of our great players cost us little or nothing. Sadly the people in this department today can't tell a prospect from an has been or even a never was.


Offline tuamigos

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2018, 10:50:54 AM »
We did appoint a DoF.
The problem being that like so many of our recent appointments he was pants.
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Offline Baggies

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2018, 10:56:40 AM »
Jenkins said there are not out there so we were struggling.

It is a nonsense of course. The German FA run courses for them, much like we run coaching courses. Nations all around Europe have no problem finding good ones.

Equally, we could look at the top head scouts and academy managers and see if they could adapt. That is a common route to these sort of roles as the skill sets are similar.

It is a vital role that can set the direction of the club in the longer term going forward.
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Offline baggie96

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2018, 11:02:16 AM »
A club like ours shouldn’t be relying on tried and trusted players as they are way too expensive. We shouldn’t be after players like Dack for £15 million, we should be after players who have the potential to break through like Blackburn did with Dack last year when they paid 750k for him. Conor Townsend is a great example, he’s looked excellent every time he’s played so far. Pulis really did rip our club apart by completely dismantling our structure.


Offline Standaman

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2018, 11:11:24 AM »
A DoF is key. Personally I would have started the summer as that being the number 1 priority. We appointed  Giuliano Terraneo as a Technical consultant which seems to have been an ownership initiative and has gone very badly. His contract is up shortly so hopefully we can move on.

I suspect there is a major rebuild to be carried out behind the scenes. The scouts we employ directly are only the tip of the iceberg there is a lot of recruitment analysis that can be done from a desk and there is often a broader scouting network which the club can tap into on an assignment basis. As such if we appoint a strong Dof we will start to see the fruits of his labour next summer but they need to be appointed sooner rather than latter.   
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Offline baggiejohn

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #12 on: September 01, 2018, 11:14:10 AM »
I think it should have been the first appointment actually, because the appointment of the Head Coach should be decided by the Director of Football, as the head coach position reports in to him.

Not sure that's the case any more.

The DoF & Head Coach tend to be at the same level on the football club hierarchy.

The head coach is responsible for identifying players for the first team squad and preparing them for matchday.

The DoF is responsible for the mechanism which supports the Head Coach (Scouting, Academy & player development, player well-being etc)
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

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Offline baggiejohn

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #13 on: September 01, 2018, 11:20:02 AM »
A DoF is key. Personally I would have started the summer as that being the number 1 priority. We appointed  Giuliano Terraneo as a Technical consultant which seems to have been an ownership initiative and has gone very badly. His contract is up shortly so hopefully we can move on.

I suspect there is a major rebuild to be carried out behind the scenes. The scouts we employ directly are only the tip of the iceberg there is a lot of recruitment analysis that can be done from a desk and there is often a broader scouting network which the club can tap into on an assignment basis. As such if we appoint a strong Dof we will start to see the fruits of his labour next summer but they need to be appointed sooner rather than latter.


I believe that it was a number 1 priority at the beginning of the summer, but it seems to me that idealism quickly turned to pragmatism especially when the Terraneo appointment went belly up.

I believe the focus will be on a new DoF now that the window has closed.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

Offline Standaman

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #14 on: September 04, 2018, 06:50:06 AM »
Jenkins going to China for meeting with Lai to discuss DoF appointment among other thing which is progress I guess.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/09/04/west-brom-chief-executive-mark-jenkins-flies-to-china-for-talks-with-owner-guochuan-lai/
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Offline Baggies

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #15 on: September 04, 2018, 08:24:53 AM »
Hard to comment on the Terraneo mess, apart from him being wholy unsuitable for us from the outset, but I am surprised at the suggestion in the article that Moore and Jenkins were put off by Terraneo looking at the continent for players.

While it is admirable to have so many British players in our match day squad, it is unsustainable for a club of our budget to survive only on English players as they are too expensive and there is not enough choice. We need the new director of football to be able to look both at domestic and international targets. I really hope Jenkins isn't going to hire some British centric dinosaur. I have very little faith in his recruiting skills.
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Offline baggiejohn

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #16 on: September 04, 2018, 08:54:36 AM »
Hard to comment on the Terraneo mess, apart from him being wholy unsuitable for us from the outset, but I am surprised at the suggestion in the article that Moore and Jenkins were put off by Terraneo looking at the continent for players.

While it is admirable to have so many British players in our match day squad, it is unsustainable for a club of our budget to survive only on English players as they are too expensive and there is not enough choice. We need the new director of football to be able to look both at domestic and international targets. I really hope Jenkins isn't going to hire some British centric dinosaur. I have very little faith in his recruiting skills.

I'm not sure Matt said that.

He said Moore & Jenkins were not particularly impressed by the players who Terraneo put forward, who were continental & principally Italian
As a result they went to a knowledge base from DM & his coaching staff.

I agree, our player search should be strategic & global.



If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

Offline divinewind

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #17 on: September 04, 2018, 08:57:13 AM »
Why does Jenkins have to keep going to China to discuss things? I thought Lai was sending his own man over here as chairman? Does anyone from Wolves or Villa have to keep going to China?
I have said before that football is a simple game, you don't have to travel half way round the world to ask a China man for advice.
Jeeez.

Offline maccbaggie

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #18 on: September 04, 2018, 11:02:37 AM »
Hard to comment on the Terraneo mess, apart from him being wholy unsuitable for us from the outset, but I am surprised at the suggestion in the article that Moore and Jenkins were put off by Terraneo looking at the continent for players.

While it is admirable to have so many British players in our match day squad, it is unsustainable for a club of our budget to survive only on English players as they are too expensive and there is not enough choice. We need the new director of football to be able to look both at domestic and international targets. I really hope Jenkins isn't going to hire some British centric dinosaur. I have very little faith in his recruiting skills.
I also find this concerning - in order for a club like ours to overachieve again in future, with ambitions of mid-table Premier League finishes, we will need to tap into the continental market. This offers much more value and choice, as opposed to restricting ourselves to only the English leagues, which tends to come along with a premium on transfer fees.

We need to utilise an international scouting network with the potential to unearth the next Gera, Yacob, Mulumbu, Odemwingie, Koren, etc.


Offline maccbaggie

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #19 on: September 04, 2018, 11:04:22 AM »

I believe that it was a number 1 priority at the beginning of the summer, but it seems to me that idealism quickly turned to pragmatism especially when the Terraneo appointment went belly up.

I believe the focus will be on a new DoF now that the window has closed.
This is the concerning quote:

"Head coach Darren Moore and Jenkins were unconvinced by the players he was recommending, who primarily came from the continent, and in particular Italy. By contrast, Moore and Jenkins were keener to bring in British experience."

I really hope this doesn't mean we hire someone who restricts us only to the British market.

Offline baggiejohn

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2018, 11:25:32 AM »
This is the concerning quote:

"Head coach Darren Moore and Jenkins were unconvinced by the players he was recommending, who primarily came from the continent, and in particular Italy. By contrast, Moore and Jenkins were keener to bring in British experience."

I really hope this doesn't mean we hire someone who restricts us only to the British market.

Of course Moore & Jenkins were keener to bring in British experience, they defaulted to what they (& particularly Moore) knew.
The owner decided to sack the one person who did have a handle on the market.

In an ideal situation, I believe we should search a global market, but I don't know the implications of us leaving the EU next year. I would assume that Jenkins does.
If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

A wise old owl sat in an oak, the more he saw, the less he spoke
The less he spoke the more he heard, why aren't we like that wise old bird?

Offline paulosull

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2018, 12:14:55 PM »
With no scouting network to speak of seems sensible that Darren stuck to British Isles for players . Once DoF is in place and scouts are sourced then Big Dave will set his net further I imagine.

Offline Standaman

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2018, 12:22:08 PM »
I don't think it was purely a British v Overseas issue. Terranero bought them a series of totally unscouted players. Whereas Moore and Jenkins went with players already known to the club. In my opinion they were completely right to do so.

I have long advocated looking overseas but there has to be a process behind it and frankly just relying on the knowledge of a fly by night consultant is asking for trouble.

We need a Dof badly!!
« Last Edit: September 04, 2018, 08:45:59 PM by Standaman »
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Offline Oldbury24

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2018, 12:35:17 PM »
This is the concerning quote:

"Head coach Darren Moore and Jenkins were unconvinced by the players he was recommending, who primarily came from the continent, and in particular Italy. By contrast, Moore and Jenkins were keener to bring in British experience."

I really hope this doesn't mean we hire someone who restricts us only to the British market.

I did wonder at the time how relevant the appointment was.  Terraneo's CV boasted the likes of Lazio, Inter Milan and most recently Fernerbache for whome he signed Van Persi and Nani.  How many players in his little black book would be suitable for a newly relegated West Brom FC in the Black Country?  What level of players from Serie A would be keen to move to a club in the midlands who no longer pay top level salaries.  Always struck me as a bit of a vanity appointment by the Chinese owners.   

At this point I would put my trust in Moore, who knows the kind of player he needs for his team.   A good DF will be presenting the manager with options based on HIS requirements both technically but more importantly in regards to character and personality.   

Offline divinewind

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Re: Director of Football
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2018, 12:51:14 PM »
I have no problem at all with British players providing they are good enough. The influx of foreign players has weakened the national team.