West Brom Dot Com

Author Topic: Dwight Gayle (at Newcastle)  (Read 74478 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline albion59

  • Senior Baggie
  • *****
  • Posts: 2844
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #875 on: June 17, 2019, 07:40:41 PM »
I don't need a maths lesson thanks, I was pointing out that 20+ goal scorers aren't as difficult to find as some are suggesting.
Really? Not being funny but can you name 5 because I'm struggling.

Offline baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #876 on: June 17, 2019, 07:47:33 PM »
Because that's £16m on one player. We need 8-10 of good/decent quality to compete for automatic promotion. That one player has very little resale value if we don't get promoted.

I'd rather we picked up 3 younger strikers for £5m each, on say £20k per week. Then we have resale value and we aren't relying on one player all season.

Who are these mysterious young £5m strikers? Didn’t James McClean get sold for £5m? The way the market is now £5m gets you nothing. Anyone young with quality attracts a far higher fee precisely because of their resale value.

Aside from using Rondon sale to get Gayle we have the parachute payment of £41.6m, season ticket and commercial income plus any player sales. So we have a budget of around £50m. What’s our wage bill now? I’d guess £35m tops given the small squad size. If we sell J-Rod that’s another £10m to reinvest. Ditto Dawson or Phillips so we still have some wriggle room.

Offline tuamigos

  • WBA Manager
  • *******
  • Posts: 11579
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #877 on: June 17, 2019, 08:36:59 PM »
I don't need a maths lesson thanks, I was pointing out that 20+ goal scorers aren't as difficult to find as some are suggesting.

Dear Slaven,
                  there are loads of 20+ a season goal scorers out there why not try..................(feel free to fill in the blank spaces
My old man always said 'You can't educate pork!'

Offline Mister AT

  • Senior Baggie
  • *****
  • Posts: 3634
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #878 on: June 17, 2019, 08:39:49 PM »
Mister AT, out of those players you listed, how many are available and what would the transfer fee and wages be?

The point is there are players out there, we just have to hope Bilic and the scouts can find a couple for reasonable prices.

Loading...

Offline TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager
  • *******
  • Posts: 11203
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #879 on: June 17, 2019, 09:17:16 PM »
I think we need to trust Bilic, firstly I can't see us bringing Gayle in permanently under ANY circumstances, secondly I have my doubts as to whether Bilic would want him.


If a deal can be done AND Slaven is keen then I'm all for it, but if he has other ideas (and I'm sure he does) I will be equally happy with that outcome.


We have finally got an attacking manager with pedigree (something we have not had since the 80s) and I'm happy to go along with his choices in attack.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

Offline wba_1996

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1076
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #880 on: June 17, 2019, 09:35:46 PM »
Who are these mysterious young £5m strikers? Didn’t James McClean get sold for £5m? The way the market is now £5m gets you nothing. Anyone young with quality attracts a far higher fee precisely because of their resale value.

Aside from using Rondon sale to get Gayle we have the parachute payment of £41.6m, season ticket and commercial income plus any player sales. So we have a budget of around £50m. What’s our wage bill now? I’d guess £35m tops given the small squad size. If we sell J-Rod that’s another £10m to reinvest. Ditto Dawson or Phillips so we still have some wriggle room.

It's not my job to find them, that's why we have a scouting system. McClean is yet another example of the overpriced, PL-experienced dross that we desperately need to be moving away from.

There's a bunch of strikers around Europe of a similar or better calibre than the likes of Pukki or Maupay were before they came to England, many of whom we could easily attract and for far less money than we'd need to spend on Gayle.

Offline wba_1996

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1076
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #881 on: June 17, 2019, 09:42:26 PM »
Really? Not being funny but can you name 5 because I'm struggling.

Pukki, Abraham, Maupay, Sharp, Gayle, Rodriguez, McBurnie, Adams, Bowen. That's 9 last season alone, one of which didn't even play as a striker. There's also not many players in that list who I would take as more than a back-up if we were in the Prem. Doesn't take a special player to hit 20 in this league, just a good finisher and a team that creates plenty of chances.

Online lewisant

  • Senior Baggie
  • *****
  • Posts: 4503
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #882 on: June 17, 2019, 09:45:15 PM »
Mister AT, out of those players you listed, how many are available and what would the transfer fee and wages be?

I think the point is - they had to be discovered by the clubs that bought them and that's what we need to do. For Example; Pukki. If we were linked with him people would look at his record. 7 in 26 in the SPL? 8 in 37 for Schalke? Sure he did well in the Danish league, but that's the Danish League. But at Norwich it clicked. I think they signed him for 2 million euros.

We were linked with Grabban in the past and most fans turned their noses up but look how many goals he scored. McGoldrick at Sheff Utd, linked with him and we turned our noses up and he bosses us at The Hawthorns and had a great season.

Loans - Tammy Abraham, Dwight Gayle. Let's find another loan?!

Then there are the players that are unattractive and boring but get goals at this level.

Dwight Gayle is amazing at this level and i'd love to see him in a Baggies shirt BUT i completely understand why it wouldn't happen.

Online lewisant

  • Senior Baggie
  • *****
  • Posts: 4503
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #883 on: June 17, 2019, 10:00:14 PM »
I think we should be looking at the likes of Jamal Lowe, Ivan Toney, Tyler Walker from Forest who scored 22 for Mansfield last year.

Offline Droitwich Baggie

  • Site Donator
  • WBA Coach
  • *****
  • Posts: 5807
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #884 on: June 17, 2019, 10:32:33 PM »
If you are thinking about Gayle being in the team, he has to be behind the most forward player.
I can remember a certain Jeff Astle being up front and nodding the ball down to Mr. Bobby Hope and Mr. Tony Brown several times.
Gayle needs to be in one of those positions to be able to capitalise.

Offline baggiemart

  • Junior Baggie
  • **
  • Posts: 153
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #885 on: June 18, 2019, 08:43:59 AM »
Pukki, Abraham, Maupay, Sharp, Gayle, Rodriguez, McBurnie, Adams, Bowen. That's 9 last season alone, one of which didn't even play as a striker. There's also not many players in that list who I would take as more than a back-up if we were in the Prem. Doesn't take a special player to hit 20 in this league, just a good finisher and a team that creates plenty of chances.

It's easy to tell us the players who scored over 20 goals after the season has ended, we need to know who WILL score 20 goals next season.

Out of the players you named , Pukki, Maupay, McBurnie, Adams and Bowen had never achieved 20+ goals before last season and I think they probably won't next season. Gayle will.  Now we could take him if not he will go to another championship club because they are lining up to sign him.

The point is , we can afford him and he will deliver the goals. Without him who is going to score the goals !!!

There is still a chance we could lose Jrod, that leaves us with HRK and some unknown strikers if we can manage to get anyone in.  That is not only a formula for staying in the championship its a formula for relegation to League 1 .

A lot of fans on this thread have got this great dream we will get a player for £5 mill who will score 25+ goals.

Get real people its not going to happen.  Go with the guaranteed goals . In fact I think without Gayle we will not get promoted in fact probably not even in the play offs.

If its such a bad idea to sign him why are other clubs lining up to sign him.

Offline bradleysrocket

  • Youth Baggie
  • ***
  • Posts: 828
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #886 on: June 18, 2019, 08:53:27 AM »
Albion as it stands aren’t a side who can go out and buy a striker who has scored 20 plus goals, the trick as with a lot of those players that did it last season is to get them before they have and are affordable. Naming a striker who has got twenty goals isn’t difficult, the difficulty is finding them before they go somewhere else and score twenty and end up out of reach.

Offline boinging_along

  • Senior Baggie
  • *****
  • Posts: 3008
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #887 on: June 18, 2019, 09:18:05 AM »
I think the point is - they had to be discovered by the clubs that bought them and that's what we need to do. For Example; Pukki. If we were linked with him people would look at his record. 7 in 26 in the SPL? 8 in 37 for Schalke? Sure he did well in the Danish league, but that's the Danish League. But at Norwich it clicked. I think they signed him for 2 million euros.

But that's all hindsight.  How many clubs signed players with poor scoring records and they went onto also score poorly?  How did HRK turn out? 

We COULD sign a player who then goes and scores 20+ goals, it's not impossible, but the odds are stacked against it.

Offline NJS

  • Junior Baggie
  • **
  • Posts: 144
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #888 on: June 18, 2019, 09:30:37 AM »
It's easy to tell us the players who scored over 20 goals after the season has ended, we need to know who WILL score 20 goals next season.

Out of the players you named , Pukki, Maupay, McBurnie, Adams and Bowen had never achieved 20+ goals before last season and I think they probably won't next season. Gayle will.  Now we could take him if not he will go to another championship club because they are lining up to sign him.

...


How can we be sure?  Other teams might work out how to contain him; he might get injured?  He's good but to make a disproportionate outlay of our funds on him is to create a single point of failure.
 
Hales Owen born.  "No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude."  Karl Popper
"You can be so irrational at times." Mrs NJS

Offline baggiemart

  • Junior Baggie
  • **
  • Posts: 153
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #889 on: June 18, 2019, 09:40:45 AM »

How can we be sure?  Other teams might work out how to contain him; he might get injured?  He's good but to make a disproportionate outlay of our funds on him is to create a single point of failure.

We can be sure because he has done it time after time in this division. With us last season and in previous seasons with Newcastle and Crystal Palace.  It's all about goals.  We supporters buy our season tickets to see the team win and score goals . We certainly don't pay out our money and sit there and say " We lost but at least the club are sensible and are managing the money " !!!

As for the injury , you could say that about any player in any division in the county !!

Offline Hull Baggie

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Coach
  • *****
  • Posts: 5087
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #890 on: June 18, 2019, 09:54:47 AM »

It's easy to tell us the players who scored over 20 goals after the season has ended, we need to know who WILL score 20 goals next season.

Out of the players you named , Pukki, Maupay, McBurnie, Adams and Bowen had never achieved 20+ goals before last season and I think they probably won't next season. Gayle will.  Now we could take him if not he will go to another championship club because they are lining up to sign him.


wow you can see into the future! Can I have this weeks lottery numbers please? :D

No one can say who will score 20+ goals a season as none of us can see into the future...and if we could we'd still be using hindsight (as we'd be looking at a future event that had happened)

Is Gayle likely to score 20 goals next season ..probably as he has in 2 of the 3 seasons he's played in the Championship, the exception being the 13 he got for Peterborough. However if he is playing at a higher level then it's unlikely he'll get 20 goals next season as he never has got anywhere near it for Palace or Newcastle.

Seriously you can't say that Gayle will score 20+ goals next season as anything can happen between now and then. He might break a leg in pre season, he might get injured at the start of the season and be out for a long period of time.

I'm not against us signing Gayle at all, in fact I'd love us to, my point is that he wasn't the only 20+ goal scorer last season so other players can do it.

« Last Edit: June 18, 2019, 09:57:47 AM by Hull Baggie »
B_H_Baggie : Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : OldburyWBA
Hull Baggie : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : Political Cake : tommcneill : WBArgo

Offline Hull Baggie

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Coach
  • *****
  • Posts: 5087
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #891 on: June 18, 2019, 09:56:34 AM »

Gayle has never played for Palace in the Championship, he has played 3 seasons in it one each for Peterborough, Newcastle and us.
B_H_Baggie : Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : OldburyWBA
Hull Baggie : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : Political Cake : tommcneill : WBArgo

Offline Mr Cynical

  • Youth Baggie
  • ***
  • Posts: 614
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #892 on: June 18, 2019, 11:37:34 AM »
I like Gayle.  I'd be really happy to see him come back next season... buy only on loan.  (Maybe we can wrap him up in a deal for Rondon?)

He's too expensive.  It's too big a risk for us with only 1 more season (of much lower) parachute payments after this one. 

If we're stuck in the Champs then, we have wasted too much money on an asset with a low resale value and high wages.

If we're promoted then we know Gayle doesn't really work as a PL player. 

I see him in the same mould as Earnshaw.  He's a goal scorer, who really comes alive in the box and has little impact outside of it.  If we're getting in the box a lot he'll score goals.  In the PL, where we won't get in the box so much, he becomes a passenger that we can't afford to carry.

Offline baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #893 on: June 18, 2019, 07:40:10 PM »
Pukki, Abraham, Maupay, Sharp, Gayle, Rodriguez, McBurnie, Adams, Bowen. That's 9 last season alone, one of which didn't even play as a striker. There's also not many players in that list who I would take as more than a back-up if we were in the Prem. Doesn't take a special player to hit 20 in this league, just a good finisher and a team that creates plenty of chances.

All of the players you have cited above are as expensive or more expensive than Gayle, save for Pukki:

-Abraham: expensive loanee coveted by PL teams last season
-Maupay: Price tag of £15-20m, quality at this level for years
-Sharp: Sheff Utd player, 33 years old, not for sale
-McBurnie: Swansea academy product not for sale
-Che Adams: attracting a £10-£15m price last LAST Summer, more now.
-Bowen: scored 15 goals in 17/18 - linked with £12m move to Everton LAST summer
-Pukki: journeyman, a year older than Gayle, amazing season in 18/19

This idea that we can replace Gayle like quality and goals on the cheap doesn't stack up. You can sign 100 journey men strikers, 99% of the time you get a HRK and 1% you hit the jackpot and get a Pukki.

The only names mentioned turn out to be just as expensive or more expensive than Gayle anyway.

Offline wba_1996

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1076
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #894 on: June 18, 2019, 09:43:54 PM »
All of the players you have cited above are as expensive or more expensive than Gayle, save for Pukki:

-Abraham: expensive loanee coveted by PL teams last season
-Maupay: Price tag of £15-20m, quality at this level for years
-Sharp: Sheff Utd player, 33 years old, not for sale
-McBurnie: Swansea academy product not for sale
-Che Adams: attracting a £10-£15m price last LAST Summer, more now.
-Bowen: scored 15 goals in 17/18 - linked with £12m move to Everton LAST summer
-Pukki: journeyman, a year older than Gayle, amazing season in 18/19

This idea that we can replace Gayle like quality and goals on the cheap doesn't stack up. You can sign 100 journey men strikers, 99% of the time you get a HRK and 1% you hit the jackpot and get a Pukki.

The only names mentioned turn out to be just as expensive or more expensive than Gayle anyway.

You've missed my point. We don't by Maupay or Che Adams this summer. We buy the next Maupay or Che Adams. We take a punt on the next Pukki. We don't put all our eggs in one basket, especially when we can't recoup much if we fail to go up.

This isn't just my opinion on signing Gayle, it's a problem that runs deep in our recruitment. Brentford bring in the likes of Maupay, Benrahma, Jota etc. with a much smaller budget than we have. We spend £4m on Kyle Bartley because he's played in the Championship before. Brentford are £40m richer from those signings, simply because they employ smart footballing people.

Offline Scooby Doo

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #895 on: June 18, 2019, 10:02:41 PM »
This entire thread has condescended into a very hypothetical one. NOTHING is guaranteed in football. The only exceptions would be the World Class players who consistently bagged 20 goals a season in The Premiership.

Ross McCormack was signed by how much for Villa because he was going to guarantee them goals? He scored 17+ in 3 consecutive seasons and was widely regarded as the best striker in the league. The rest is history. He is The Championships all time top scorer.

Dwight Gayle meanwhile IS the all time Championship best striker in terms of Goals/Mins. Factor in that statistic how much is that worth? Definitely a straight swap for Rondon and paying him £40k a week minimum. Somebody will pay it, that or someone will take a punt on him in The Premiership.

Offline TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager
  • *******
  • Posts: 11203
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #896 on: June 18, 2019, 10:27:32 PM »
This entire thread has condescended into a very hypothetical one. NOTHING is guaranteed in football. The only exceptions would be the World Class players who consistently bagged 20 goals a season in The Premiership.

Ross McCormack was signed by how much for Villa because he was going to guarantee them goals? He scored 17+ in 3 consecutive seasons and was widely regarded as the best striker in the league. The rest is history. He is The Championships all time top scorer.

Dwight Gayle meanwhile IS the all time Championship best striker in terms of Goals/Mins. Factor in that statistic how much is that worth? Definitely a straight swap for Rondon and paying him £40k a week minimum. Somebody will pay it, that or someone will take a punt on him in The Premiership.


How old is McCormick? He'd be an instant hero with about 30%  ;)  of the fanbase just for his exploits at Villa, chuck in a few goals...


Sign him up!!
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

Offline baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1377
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #897 on: June 19, 2019, 12:27:41 AM »
You've missed my point. We don't by Maupay or Che Adams this summer. We buy the next Maupay or Che Adams. We take a punt on the next Pukki. We don't put all our eggs in one basket, especially when we can't recoup much if we fail to go up.

I get it, you want the magic wand, the club to buy the next superstar batch of strikers at a low cost with a huge sell on value. The main issue being that everybody else is looking for the same thing and they don’t grow on trees, even players with limited experience can attract hefty price tags based on potential alone. The market is now mad. What happens when the potential strikers we invest with no track record turn into a Simon Cox and a HRK? Look how much money was wasted on Burke. Quality strikers are rare commodities, when you get one it pays good heed to hold onto them. I’ve been watching us since 1993, in the last 26 years the only strikers worth mentioning have been Super Bob, Andy Hunt, Hughes, Lukuku, Odemwingie, SKP and Gayle. That’s 7 in 26 years! Our aim next season has to be to throw everything at a promotion push, we’re not yet a mid table championship team looking to build. Our resources and ambition is bigger than that. If we lose the parachute money we will have to take more of a longer term view and settle for less but it’s worth keeping at it.

I don’t have a problem with lowering the age of the squad but that shouldn’t be a precursor to trying to resign Gayle as well. Committing £10m and wages on a quality forward isn’t financial kamikaze, in the grand scheme of things. We have resources that few other teams in our league can match.

Offline TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager
  • *******
  • Posts: 11203
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #898 on: June 19, 2019, 01:12:29 AM »
I get it, you want the magic wand, the club to buy the next superstar batch of strikers at a low cost with a huge sell on value. The main issue being that everybody else is looking for the same thing and they don’t grow on trees, even players with limited experience can attract hefty price tags based on potential alone. The market is now mad. What happens when the potential strikers we invest with no track record turn into a Simon Cox and a HRK? Look how much money was wasted on Burke. Quality strikers are rare commodities, when you get one it pays good heed to hold onto them. I’ve been watching us since 1993, in the last 26 years the only strikers worth mentioning have been Super Bob, Andy Hunt, Hughes, Lukuku, Odemwingie, SKP and Gayle. That’s 7 in 26 years! Our aim next season has to be to throw everything at a promotion push, we’re not yet a mid table championship team looking to build. Our resources and ambition is bigger than that. If we lose the parachute money we will have to take more of a longer term view and settle for less but it’s worth keeping at it.

I don’t have a problem with lowering the age of the squad but that shouldn’t be a precursor to trying to resign Gayle as well. Committing £10m and wages on a quality forward isn’t financial kamikaze, in the grand scheme of things. We have resources that few other teams in our league can match.


You come out with some poor shouts but this right up there.


I've been going up since 88.


Don Goodman, Bob Taylor, Andy Hunt, Paul Peschisolido, Lee Hughes, Jason Roberts, Robert Earnshaw, Kanu, Dio Kamara, Kevin Phillips, Ismael Miller, Peter Odemwingie, Romelu Lukaku, Saido Berahino, Salomon Rondon, Jay Rodriguez and Dwight Gayle.


We've consistently had excellent strikers aside from the one season it really mattered under Mowbray (and if James hadn't crocked Ish I think he was headed for the very top and would have kept us up).


Gayle was great, I'd love him back if Slaven Bilic wants him, but it won't be anything more than a loan and I have serious reservations about that with the wage he's on.


{Apologies to the likes of Kevin Bartlett, Scott Dobie, Geoff Horsfield, Marc Fortune, Carlos Vela and Roman Bednar, but never Shane Long}  ;D
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

Offline TAFKATMNo1Fan

  • Youth Baggie
  • ***
  • Posts: 792
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #899 on: June 19, 2019, 07:54:06 AM »

You come out with some poor shouts but this right up there.


I've been going up since 88.


Don Goodman, Bob Taylor, Andy Hunt, Paul Peschisolido, Lee Hughes, Jason Roberts, Robert Earnshaw, Kanu, Dio Kamara, Kevin Phillips, Ismael Miller, Peter Odemwingie, Romelu Lukaku, Saido Berahino, Salomon Rondon, Jay Rodriguez and Dwight Gayle.


We've consistently had excellent strikers aside from the one season it really mattered under Mowbray (and if James hadn't crocked Ish I think he was headed for the very top and would have kept us up).


Gayle was great, I'd love him back if Slaven Bilic wants him, but it won't be anything more than a loan and I have serious reservations about that with the wage he's on.


{Apologies to the likes of Kevin Bartlett, Scott Dobie, Geoff Horsfield, Marc Fortune, Carlos Vela and Roman Bednar, but never Shane Long}  ;D

You forgot that lethal striker Paul Williams!  ;D