West Brom Dot Com

Author Topic: Dwight Gayle (at Newcastle)  (Read 72170 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1349
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #850 on: June 17, 2019, 12:46:34 PM »
If we are getting £16m for Rondon which seems likely then I don't see why we can't  sign Gayle permanently, presuming we can persuade him to come back. His wages at Newcastle are around £2.5m a year reported, no reason why we can't negotiate Newcastle into paying us £6m plus Gayle to swap with Rondon, that would cover his wages and we could either sign him up to a 3 year deal or a 2 years plus 1 year in the clubs favour. It is certainly worth looking at as that would be attractive to the Newcastle board who are reluctant to pay fees for oldish players and Rondon / Benitez, no doubt he would be happy to sign for them permanently and Benitez likes him. It it is just a matter of whether Gayle could buy into it as opposed to holding out for a Premiership move to Norwich etc. Bear in mind as well we have already massively reduced the wage bill by releasing Barry, Morrison & others.  If / when J-Rod / Dawson get sold we get a further cash boost to strengthen the rest of the team (in addition to this years Parachute which is not that far behind last years).

My overall point is there is sufficient financial flexibility to sign him back if we really want to, of course the player at the end of the day will have the final say. I do not accept this idea that we can't afford him and would have to start laying off the tea lady etc, the figures don't bear that out when you consider what we are likely to be getting in for Rondon.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 12:48:16 PM by baggie82 »

Online FallOutBoy

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 2395
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #851 on: June 17, 2019, 12:52:48 PM »
With all due respect, none of you are thinking long term. We could lash out a lot of money on Gayle, and what are we going to get in return? His goals do not guarantee promotion if the rest of the team isn't up to it, we saw that last season. And if we don't go back up we can't afford to keep him, so we'd have to take a loss to get him off the books.

Simply put, we can't afford to pay his wages if we don't go up and don't get parachute payments. We can't mortgage the future of the club based on signing one player, when we may be able to find cheaper alternatives.

Online KN22

  • Youth Baggie
  • ***
  • Posts: 505
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #852 on: June 17, 2019, 01:02:08 PM »
I have read the posts on this thread with great interest. My start point is to say that I am a massive fan of Gayle. Given his record last season who wouldn't be? I have concluded however that he will not return and that this is probably the right outcome. If, as others who seem to know more than me have stated, he does not fit in with how Bilic wants to play, then why sign him? There is also the very valid point that should we not win promotion we are saddled with an extremely high salary without the parachute payments to support it.

Having stated all of the above I am extremely concerned about where the 46 goals scored by DG and JR will come from but the answer to that is for others to resolve. It will be an interesting summer once the players return that's for sure!

Offline baggiemart

  • Junior Baggie
  • **
  • Posts: 152
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #853 on: June 17, 2019, 01:16:03 PM »
With all due respect, none of you are thinking long term. We could lash out a lot of money on Gayle, and what are we going to get in return? His goals do not guarantee promotion if the rest of the team isn't up to it, we saw that last season. And if we don't go back up we can't afford to keep him, so we'd have to take a loss to get him off the books.

Simply put, we can't afford to pay his wages if we don't go up and don't get parachute payments. We can't mortgage the future of the club based on signing one player, when we may be able to find cheaper alternatives.

Cheaper alternatives come with lower expectations and lower achievements.

if we signed him on a 3 year contract, at £55K a week the total contract would cost us £2.5 mill a year, £7.5 mill over the 3year contact.  We will get £16 mill for Rondon. Probably get around £10 mill for Dawson.  So there we have £26 mill coming in, £7.5 mill for Gayle's wages leaving £18.5 mill for other players and of course Gayles actual transfer fee.  So it is achievable.

Offline baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1349
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #854 on: June 17, 2019, 01:17:15 PM »
With all due respect, none of you are thinking long term. We could lash out a lot of money on Gayle, and what are we going to get in return? His goals do not guarantee promotion if the rest of the team isn't up to it, we saw that last season. And if we don't go back up we can't afford to keep him, so we'd have to take a loss to get him off the books.

Simply put, we can't afford to pay his wages if we don't go up and don't get parachute payments. We can't mortgage the future of the club based on signing one player, when we may be able to find cheaper alternatives.

1) What would we get in return: the best striker in the championship, a goal machine who is 29 this year not 34 as some of the posters imply.
2) If we don't go back up we can't afford fro keep him / we can't afford his wages if we don't go up: Not true, no reason why the sale of Rondon can't fund his wages over 2/3 years. We have already removed Barry, Morrison, Hoolahan, Mears & Myhill from the wages.
3) We can't mortgage the sale of the club based on signing one player - agreed but that's not the case, scare mongering. If Newcastle will compromise by paying us circa £6m plus Gayle for Rondon (or another club buys him at his clause and Newcastle accept £10m for Gayle) then no reason why we can't try to resign him. We have the flexibility with all parachute money, player sales, squad size.

£10m on Gayle over three years is a good investment, you get what you pay for with him. Bear in mind every chance of J-Rod going as well so that would be £26m in him and Rondon alone. The idea that the club would be risking it's financial future doesn't add up when you look at the income, player assets and wages.

Offline Windmill Baggy

  • Junior Baggie
  • **
  • Posts: 216
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #855 on: June 17, 2019, 01:39:18 PM »
Barnes, Gayle, Holgate. then our players

If Barnes was as integral as most seem to believe, then why was our goals scored record after he left no worse than it was during his loan stint? Holgate was very good, but I wouldn't say he was any better than Gibbs.

Hegazi, Gayle, Rodriguez, Philips, Barnes, Gibbs, Holgate in that order for me.

Gayle's goals are as replaceable as Barnes' were, whether by the signing of one '20-a-season-striker' or by bringing in players who can score regularly from midfield. It's also at least as important next season the defence is meaner, which will mean less goals to win games in the first place. How all this is managed is obviously dependent on Bilic's plans.

Offline liverbaggie

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1438
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #856 on: June 17, 2019, 01:53:06 PM »
He's a proven goalscorer in this division,all other clubs would want him if he wants to come back let him I say,the money will be available where are all these 20 goal a season players coming from? Pay the man who gets the goals other players stop moaning because if we get promoted they all get a pay rise. He's a cracking player for us,forget the cost and age

Offline lewisant

  • Senior Baggie
  • *****
  • Posts: 4481
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #857 on: June 17, 2019, 02:11:21 PM »
I'd love Gayle but i do think people are underestimating the rebuild. 6 loan players gone, 5 released and in all likelihood we'll lose another 5 or 6. Admittedly some of the loans and released won't be missed (Hoolahan, Mears, Montero who played next to no part in our season) but Bilic needs to bring in 6 or 7 first teamers that will challenge the first team.

If we spend X million on Gayle's wages and a chunk of Rondon's fee is gone it gives Bilic and Dowling way less wiggle room on other deals and pushes down the quality in other positions.

I'd love Gayle but it will make all other business more difficult.

Offline Hull Baggie

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Coach
  • *****
  • Posts: 5054
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #858 on: June 17, 2019, 02:17:57 PM »
He's a proven goalscorer in this division,all other clubs would want him if he wants to come back let him I say,the money will be available where are all these 20 goal a season players coming from? Pay the man who gets the goals other players stop moaning because if we get promoted they all get a pay rise. He's a cracking player for us,forget the cost and age

9 players scored 20+ goals in the championship last season, so 7 other clubs managed to have 20+ goalscorers, just maybe they aren't the rarity they're being made out to be.
B_H_Baggie : Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : OldburyWBA
Hull Baggie : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : Political Cake : tommcneill : WBArgo

Offline Scooby Doo

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #859 on: June 17, 2019, 02:28:53 PM »
Dwight Gayle is a terrific goal scorer of that there is absolutely no doubt. Ultimately it will come down to how Bilic wants to set his side up.

What Gayle did show though is that he scored those goals on scraps. How well would he fair in a team capable of keeping the ball and creating chances? Or just attacking with purpose?

More of a concern for me is the lack of goals from elsewhere last season. Strengthening the three behind the striker and utilising the loan market for a striker may well be how Bilic will want to do things.

BUT if you go and pay one player X amount how good is that for the dressing room? That's why I'd be so reluctant to sign Gayle.

Offline tuamigos

  • WBA Manager
  • *******
  • Posts: 11564
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #860 on: June 17, 2019, 02:58:04 PM »
9 players scored 20+ goals in the championship last season, so 7 other clubs managed to have 20+ goalscorers, just maybe they aren't the rarity they're being made out to be.

and 17 clubs didn't
My old man always said 'You can't educate pork!'

Offline slate

  • Youth Baggie
  • ***
  • Posts: 433
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #861 on: June 17, 2019, 03:00:42 PM »
Dwight Gayle is a terrific goal scorer of that there is absolutely no doubt. Ultimately it will come down to how Bilic wants to set his side up.

What Gayle did show though is that he scored those goals on scraps. How well would he fair in a team capable of keeping the ball and creating chances? Or just attacking with purpose?

More of a concern for me is the lack of goals from elsewhere last season. Strengthening the three behind the striker and utilising the loan market for a striker may well be how Bilic will want to do things.

BUT if you go and pay one player X amount how good is that for the dressing room? That's why I'd be so reluctant to sign Gayle.

All football clubs have a vast spread of wages and seem to manage the dressing room ok. Another poster above has mentioned that there are 9 other 20+ goals per year strikers, however I'd guess that they are going to cost somewhere in the region of £10 million to buy.

Online Mister AT

  • Senior Baggie
  • *****
  • Posts: 3623
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #862 on: June 17, 2019, 03:23:02 PM »
I would be the first to say I would love Gayle back here but it's simply not going to happen.

It's all well and good saying we can factor in some of the wages in the Rondon deal, or that we have already saved money on Barry and Morrison, but let's not forget we are already around 8-10 players short in the squad compared to 2 months ago.

We have to bring in at least 4-6 genuine first team players, majority of which will be on decent enough wages.

The only way the Gayle deal ever happened would be if for some strange reason he was happy to come here on 30k a week, which isn't going to happen.

There are players out there who we can look to pick up and score some goals, Pukki, Maupay, McBurnie, Che Adams, Vydra, Grabban have all scored over 20 goals (either last season or the season before) so there are players out there who will score the goals and cost us less.

For me the biggest problem this club has got is to get some midfielders in who can actually score some goals and get close to double figures. Excluding Matt Phillips we don't have anyone even capable of coming close to that.
Loading...

Offline NJS

  • Junior Baggie
  • **
  • Posts: 137
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #863 on: June 17, 2019, 04:04:26 PM »
Putting all your finance eggs into one basket rarely works; it's a team game.  What about if he got a serious injury?
Gayle dives and antagonises refs.  That throw-in nonsense in the play-offs was sheer stupidity and meant that we were short of penalty takers in the final act.
Hales Owen born.  "No rational argument will have a rational effect on a man who does not want to adopt a rational attitude."  Karl Popper
"You can be so irrational at times." Mrs NJS

Offline TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager
  • *******
  • Posts: 11143
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #864 on: June 17, 2019, 04:39:05 PM »
Putting all your finance eggs into one basket rarely works; it's a team game.  What about if he got a serious injury?
Gayle dives and antagonises refs.  That throw-in nonsense in the play-offs was sheer stupidity and meant that we were short of penalty takers in the final act.


We'd have won the 2nd leg by a street had Gayle and the referee not been utterly stupid at VP.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

Online boinging_along

  • Senior Baggie
  • *****
  • Posts: 2970
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #865 on: June 17, 2019, 04:49:21 PM »
Mister AT, out of those players you listed, how many are available and what would the transfer fee and wages be?

Offline Windmill Baggy

  • Junior Baggie
  • **
  • Posts: 216
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #866 on: June 17, 2019, 04:58:11 PM »
1) What would we get in return: the best striker in the championship, a goal machine who is 29 this year not 34 as some of the posters imply.
2) If we don't go back up we can't afford fro keep him / we can't afford his wages if we don't go up: Not true, no reason why the sale of Rondon can't fund his wages over 2/3 years. We have already removed Barry, Morrison, Hoolahan, Mears & Myhill from the wages.
3) We can't mortgage the sale of the club based on signing one player - agreed but that's not the case, scare mongering. If Newcastle will compromise by paying us circa £6m plus Gayle for Rondon (or another club buys him at his clause and Newcastle accept £10m for Gayle) then no reason why we can't try to resign him. We have the flexibility with all parachute money, player sales, squad size.

£10m on Gayle over three years is a good investment, you get what you pay for with him. Bear in mind every chance of J-Rod going as well so that would be £26m in him and Rondon alone. The idea that the club would be risking it's financial future doesn't add up when you look at the income, player assets and wages.

I can't see the first happening, it's basically a swap. Newcastle can sit it out until January or even the end of the season and sign him at a cut price or for free and keep Gayle (who has 2 years left on his contract). I also
 doubt anyone else will trigger the release clause when he has a year left on his contract.

Offline baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1349
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #867 on: June 17, 2019, 05:46:44 PM »
I can't see the first happening, it's basically a swap. Newcastle can sit it out until January or even the end of the season and sign him at a cut price or for free and keep Gayle (who has 2 years left on his contract). I also
 doubt anyone else will trigger the release clause when he has a year left on his contract.

I don't think Newcastle will have the luxury of sitting it out and waiting 12 months for his contract to run down, £16m is fairly small change for a premier league club and I suspect Rondon has done enough to persuade one of the other teams outside the top six to make a move for him.

Offline Scooby Doo

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1032
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #868 on: June 17, 2019, 06:17:23 PM »
All football clubs have a vast spread of wages and seem to manage the dressing room ok. Another poster above has mentioned that there are 9 other 20+ goals per year strikers, however I'd guess that they are going to cost somewhere in the region of £10 million to buy.

He'll be earning nearly 50% more than any other player though which is a huge figure and it's not as if he's a huge name.

Offline wba_1996

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1066
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #869 on: June 17, 2019, 06:55:00 PM »
And if Gayle snaps his cruciate first game of the season you'll all be happy with HRK as our starting striker because we spent all of our wage budget on one player? Thought not.

I despise Jenkins and the way he runs the club, but we're stuck with him, so we might as well do things sensibly under his financial restrictions. We aren't getting another £16m once Rondon's gone, the fact people would happily gamble all of that on Gayle blows my mind.


Offline baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1349
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #870 on: June 17, 2019, 07:00:35 PM »
And if Gayle snaps his cruciate first game of the season you'll all be happy with HRK as our starting striker because we spent all of our wage budget on one player? Thought not.

I despise Jenkins and the way he runs the club, but we're stuck with him, so we might as well do things sensibly under his financial restrictions. We aren't getting another £16m once Rondon's gone, the fact people would happily gamble all of that on Gayle blows my mind.

Every signing is a gamble but Gayle is proven and the most risk free certainty of a quality goalscorer we can find. I’m not sure why replacing Rondon with Gayle blows your mind. We take our insurance like all clubs against the cost of long term injuries.

Offline wba_1996

  • Reserve Baggie
  • ****
  • Posts: 1066
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #871 on: June 17, 2019, 07:08:04 PM »
Every signing is a gamble but Gayle is proven and the most risk free certainty of a quality goalscorer we can find. I’m not sure why replacing Rondon with Gayle blows your mind. We take our insurance like all clubs against the cost of long term injuries.

Because that's £16m on one player. We need 8-10 of good/decent quality to compete for automatic promotion. That one player has very little resale value if we don't get promoted.

I'd rather we picked up 3 younger strikers for £5m each, on say £20k per week. Then we have resale value and we aren't relying on one player all season.

Offline baggiemart

  • Junior Baggie
  • **
  • Posts: 152
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #872 on: June 17, 2019, 07:10:59 PM »
Rondon was voted Newcastle player of the season last year, I don't think they can afford not to go for him. Simply because if they struggle for goals next year without Rondon, the manager and the board will get a real rough ride.

So if Rondon goes to Newcastle I cannot see that happening without Gayle being part of the deal.

If it doesn't happen then Rondon is still our player and he will play in the championship.  I wonder how much his wages are ???  At least £50k a week. 

So either way we will be paying out big wages .

Offline Hull Baggie

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Coach
  • *****
  • Posts: 5054
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #873 on: June 17, 2019, 07:11:21 PM »
and 17 clubs didn't

I don't need a maths lesson thanks, I was pointing out that 20+ goal scorers aren't as difficult to find as some are suggesting. 
B_H_Baggie : Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : OldburyWBA
Hull Baggie : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : Political Cake : tommcneill : WBArgo

Offline baggiemart

  • Junior Baggie
  • **
  • Posts: 152
Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #874 on: June 17, 2019, 07:19:36 PM »
I don't need a maths lesson thanks, I was pointing out that 20+ goal scorers aren't as difficult to find as some are suggesting.

In that case I'm sure you could suggest some names to Mr Bilic . After all there are loads about !!