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Author Topic: Dwight Gayle (at Newcastle)  (Read 72547 times)

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Online alex1

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #825 on: June 17, 2019, 01:19:50 AM »

Where will Bilic play Dwight Gayle should we acquire him?
I think I know what you're suggesting, that Billic plays 4-2-3-1 and Gayle isn't a target man.
This is where Billic has to earn his crust, if he's the manager he's supposed to be. When you have a player with Gayle's ability, you have to adapt and find a way of accommodating him. He isn't a classic target man playing on his own up top. He's best when making runs through from deep positions and of course snapping up chances and half chances from around the box. It's Billic's job to tweak the abilities of all the players into the most effective unit, and if that means abandoning 4-2-3-1 , that's what he has to do.
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Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #826 on: June 17, 2019, 01:49:51 AM »
I think I know what you're suggesting, that Billic plays 4-2-3-1 and Gayle isn't a target man.
This is where Billic has to earn his crust, if he's the manager he's supposed to be. When you have a player with Gayle's ability, you have to adapt and find a way of accommodating him. He isn't a classic target man playing on his own up top. He's best when making runs through from deep positions and of course snapping up chances and half chances from around the box. It's Billic's job to tweak the abilities of all the players into the most effective unit, and if that means abandoning 4-2-3-1 , that's what he has to do.


Couldn't disagree more. You don't sign a player that would mean you had to tear up the blueprint you'd used successfully throughout your career. Re-signing Gayle is a total non starter imo and not just because of cost.


He provided us with some great goals and memories but it's time to move on.
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Online alex1

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #827 on: June 17, 2019, 02:05:49 AM »

Couldn't disagree more. You don't sign a player that would mean you had to tear up the blueprint you'd used successfully throughout your career. Re-signing Gayle is a total non starter imo and not just because of cost.


He provided us with some great goals and memories but it's time to move on.
So signing an instinctive goalscorer means tearing up some tactical "blueprint"? Not comparing Gayle to Messi, but would you refuse Messi on the same basis? 

When you say move on, does that mean moving onto finding a striker who scores 12 instead of 24 a season?
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Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #828 on: June 17, 2019, 03:29:40 AM »
So signing an instinctive goalscorer means tearing up some tactical "blueprint"? Not comparing Gayle to Messi, but would you refuse Messi on the same basis? 

When you say move on, does that mean moving onto finding a striker who scores 12 instead of 24 a season?


By asking me the question you are comparing Gayle to Messi, in importance anyway, and no Gayle isn't as important a player to us as Messi would be to anyone.
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Offline Nice1Cyrille

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #829 on: June 17, 2019, 04:22:37 AM »

Couldn't disagree more. You don't sign a player that would mean you had to tear up the blueprint you'd used successfully throughout your career. Re-signing Gayle is a total non starter imo and not just because of cost.


He provided us with some great goals and memories but it's time to move on.

Going with your belief of moving on from Gayle, I do have some questions as to the future lineup.
We are likely to lose Rondon and JRod in the coming weeks leaving us with HRK.
Where do you think our goals will come from this season?
How much are you willing to spend to find a proven goal scorer?
If recent history is anything to go by , the budget for players will be small and we have to rebuild an aging team.
Wouldnt a straight swap of Rondon for Gayle make sense under these circumstances?

I believe you pay for proven results(Gayle's scoring history) and cut back on underperforming, aging players.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 04:25:08 AM by Nice1Cyrille »

Offline Standaman

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #830 on: June 17, 2019, 06:33:48 AM »
The argument that Bilic should change to accomodate Gayle might be valid if he was our player but he isn't so we have to gut our budget to get a player that does not fit the Head Coaches tactical blueprint.

In terms of the negotiating position between ourselves and Newcastle. Ultimately if someone meets the release clause we have no choice but to sell Rondon and we need to sell otherwise he is a free agent at the end of next season and will leave for no fee. The Newcastle hierarchy are not keen on the deal and are trying to chip away at the price. On the other hand they have Gayle on a 2 year contract while they are quite happy to sell the very worse case scenario if they don't get their asking price they loan him out at the end of the window which will offset some of the costs of having the player.

The swap deal is not going to happen. Time to move on.


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Offline skyclad99

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #831 on: June 17, 2019, 07:37:08 AM »
Just read the last few pages of posts with interest. It is a fact that the majority of us would love to see Dwight at our club next year, and as someone said good luck with finding someone who can score 20 goals a season if we don't buy him. We also know that he is on a premiership wage, circa £55k per week, so with the transfer fee we probably cannot afford him [but we do have Rondon to bargain with]. Many say 'just sign him' as if it is that easy but the problem for me is how this will sit with the rest of the team. Consider Norwich, or Sheffield United, they did it this year working as a team, there were no big wage superstars within the squads and teamwork played a considerable part of achieving promotion.

Given that the rest of our squad will be on considerably less than half of what Dwight will be earning, do you not think that this will have a detrimental effect on our team at all? Personally I think that these devisive issues have affected our team over the past couple of seasons so I would like to move away from that.

Just asking...don't get me wrong, I would love to see Dwight back!.
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Offline baggiemart

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #832 on: June 17, 2019, 08:41:16 AM »
It seems everyone is an accountant. Talking about wages, costs etc etc.

At the end of the day the only thing that matters to us season ticket holders is winning matches.  To win matches you need to score goals and gayle would deliver that , guaranteed.

As far as the argument about " He would be earning more than other members of the team", its a fact that the goalscorer in any team always earns the most money.  Who earns the most at Tottenham ?  Harry Kane,

If the players are on the same bonus next year for promotion, do you really think the rest of the team matter how much gayle earns if he scores the goals to get the team their bonus.

If we are relying on HRK and a new face to score the goals, then forget any thoughts about promotion because it won't happen.

Forget thinking like an accountant, its all about the goals and at the end of the day goals win matches !!!




Offline FallOutBoy

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #833 on: June 17, 2019, 08:45:39 AM »
I wish people would stop torturing themselves with this. Gayle isn't coming back. Even if we could afford him for this season, we can't commit to a contract that big just in case we don't get promotion. We can't afford his wages without the parachute payments (at least). Plus he'll have better financial offers.

It's not happening. The club have been clear in that. But I'll guarantee when he signs for Sheffield United, Fulham, or somebody else, there will be another meltdown.

Offline darbolina

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #834 on: June 17, 2019, 08:54:08 AM »
Agree, it's time for a new beginning. The club have been very very clear Gayle isn't coming back , neither is Barnes and I bet next season's starting 11 by September will have only a couple of players who were starters last season (maybe three or four max).

Offline Hull Baggie

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #835 on: June 17, 2019, 09:07:48 AM »
It seems everyone is an accountant. Talking about wages, costs etc etc.

At the end of the day the only thing that matters to us season ticket holders is winning matches.  To win matches you need to score goals and gayle would deliver that , guaranteed.

As far as the argument about " He would be earning more than other members of the team", its a fact that the goalscorer in any team always earns the most money.  Who earns the most at Tottenham ?  Harry Kane,

If the players are on the same bonus next year for promotion, do you really think the rest of the team matter how much gayle earns if he scores the goals to get the team their bonus.

If we are relying on HRK and a new face to score the goals, then forget any thoughts about promotion because it won't happen.

Forget thinking like an accountant, its all about the goals and at the end of the day goals win matches !!!

Isn't Ozil the highest earner at Arsenal?  I think also De Bruyne is the highest earner at Man City?
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Offline baggiemart

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #836 on: June 17, 2019, 09:08:13 AM »
I wish people would stop torturing themselves with this. Gayle isn't coming back. Even if we could afford him for this season, we can't commit to a contract that big just in case we don't get promotion. We can't afford his wages without the parachute payments (at least). Plus he'll have better financial offers.

It's not happening. The club have been clear in that. But I'll guarantee when he signs for Sheffield United, Fulham, or somebody else, there will be another meltdown.

Things have changed since we said Gayle wasn't coming back,  Bilic has arrived.  Who knows what is going on behind closed doors.  Maybe Bilic could persuade both Gayle and the board to come to a compromise.

The club had a massive boost with the arrival of Bilic. If we could get Gayle back the club would have another massive boost and would send out a message not only to the other teams in the division but also some of our other players who are thinking of jumping ship.

Offline baggiemart

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #837 on: June 17, 2019, 09:10:15 AM »
Isn't Ozil the highest earner at Arsenal?  I think also De Bruyne is the highest earner at Man City?

I thought it was Sterling at Man City !  I also think you will find its Jamie Vardy at Leicester.


« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 09:20:05 AM by Hull Baggie »

Offline Atomic

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #838 on: June 17, 2019, 09:12:00 AM »
It's shoddy, made up journalism like this from the Daily Mail that stops us moving on because unfortunately some people believe it. There are going to be a lot of rumours in the press in the coming weeks and most of them will be wide of the mark, this is what happens at this time of the year.

Gayle isn't going to return and it really is time this sinks in.  There is no point squabbling about it.

Offline baggiemart

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #839 on: June 17, 2019, 09:16:05 AM »
It's shoddy, made up journalism like this from the Daily Mail that stops us moving on because unfortunately some people believe it. There are going to be a lot of rumours in the press in the coming weeks and most of them will be wide of the mark, this is what happens at this time of the year.

Gayle isn't going to return and it really is time this sinks in.  There is no point squabbling about it.

I saw it in the evening mail so its got to be gospel !!!

Offline skyclad99

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #840 on: June 17, 2019, 09:21:02 AM »
It seems everyone is an accountant. Talking about wages, costs etc etc.

At the end of the day the only thing that matters to us season ticket holders is winning matches.  To win matches you need to score goals and gayle would deliver that , guaranteed.

As far as the argument about " He would be earning more than other members of the team", its a fact that the goalscorer in any team always earns the most money.  Who earns the most at Tottenham ?  Harry Kane,

If the players are on the same bonus next year for promotion, do you really think the rest of the team matter how much gayle earns if he scores the goals to get the team their bonus.

If we are relying on HRK and a new face to score the goals, then forget any thoughts about promotion because it won't happen.

Forget thinking like an accountant, its all about the goals and at the end of the day goals win matches !!!

You seem to have missed the point, the rest of the Tottenham players are on Premiership wages, so although Kane may be the highest earner, you will know that Alli and co are not far behind. At the Albion, if Gayle was to come back [and he isn't by the looks of it], then then rest of the team will not even be on half of what he is picking up.

I am not an accountant by the way, but this is pretty obvious to a simpleton like me.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 10:51:03 AM by skyclad99 »
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Offline Hull Baggie

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #841 on: June 17, 2019, 09:22:46 AM »
I thought it was Sterling at Man City !  I also think you will find its Jamie Vardy at Leicester.

Dunno about Sterling I found a piece saying it was De Bruyne (might be from before any deal was done with Sterling though). The FACT remains though that Ozil is the highest earner at Arsenal and he isn't a goal scorer proving that it isn't always goalscorers that are the highest paid players in any team which you claimed was the case. Usually the highest paid players, certainly, but not always.

Just found a piece that states it's De Bruyne and Aguero that are paid the most at Man City, so one of the highest paid players at Man City is a goal scorer the other isn't.

https://sillyseason.com/salary/manchester-city-players-salaries-69071/
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #842 on: June 17, 2019, 09:24:02 AM »
From financial and tactically perspectives, he is not a viable and sustainable proposition
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Offline baggiemart

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #843 on: June 17, 2019, 09:32:23 AM »
From financial and tactically perspectives, he is not a viable and sustainable proposition

Keep that statement with you throughout next season.  Lets see how many games we regret not having a goalscorer like Gayle.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #844 on: June 17, 2019, 09:54:20 AM »
Obviously not all circumstances are the same, but this reminds me a bit of the Kevin Phillips saga. For the 2007-2008 season Phillips was voted Player of the Year, he scored 24 goals and we were promoted. We refused him a 2 year contract for the next season, and we and Phillips moved on. 
I'm sure some of the same arguments were being deployed then about his age, being past his best etc. and there being better striker alternatives out there. Those better alternatives mustered 6 goals (Bednar), 5 goals (Fortune) 3 goals (Miller) and 1 goal (Simpson) between them and we were relegated. 
Moral of the story: It's not easy finding those better alternatives. 
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Offline Throstletown

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #845 on: June 17, 2019, 10:10:22 AM »
If no other club comes in for Rondon then Mike Ashley knows that he has us over a barrel with regards wages. The guy is a business man and the longer this saga goes on we will be sweating and come pleading for a deal one to get some of our investment back and 2 to get the highest earner off the wage bill. Ashley v Jenkins only one winner so I hope Sols agent finds him a deal because there only going to be one winner if we go down the swap route

Offline boinging_along

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #846 on: June 17, 2019, 10:42:22 AM »
We've signed Bilic to get promoted, not to mill around in the middle of the Championship.

We won't get promoted if we don't score goals.  It's as simple as that.

As it stands, our frontline is very very light and that's assuming J-Rod stays.

Without knowing what's going on behind the scenes (maybe Gayle is dropping his demands, maybe Ashley is dropping his price, maybe Bilic has sanctioned signing him, maybe we, or Newcastle, are getting desperate), then I don't know how anyone can say he is not a viable or sustainable proposition.




Offline tuamigos

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #847 on: June 17, 2019, 11:01:26 AM »
People are saying that Gayle being on more money would not go down well with other players.
If I was Hegazi or Gibbs I would be more pi$$ed that HRK was on £25k a week than Gayle being on £50k.

Plus unless Gayle goes round the dressing room showing off his payslip then who's to know how much he's on.
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Offline Hull Baggie

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #848 on: June 17, 2019, 12:07:39 PM »
If no other club comes in for Rondon then Mike Ashley knows that he has us over a barrel with regards wages. The guy is a business man and the longer this saga goes on we will be sweating and come pleading for a deal one to get some of our investment back and 2 to get the highest earner off the wage bill. Ashley v Jenkins only one winner so I hope Sols agent finds him a deal because there only going to be one winner if we go down the swap route

If the takeover deal goes through, which is quite likely, then it won't be Ashley we deal with.
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Offline seteefeet

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #849 on: June 17, 2019, 12:39:13 PM »
Think it's highly unlikely but, if Bilic wants him, and there is a way to make it happen, then it's a no brainer. Certainly no harm in discussing it on here, what else have we got to talk about?