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Offline frazzle

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1725 on: October 05, 2018, 03:13:12 PM »
There was always plenty of Pulis fans saying he needed loads of transfer windows to shape the team as he wanted it. I fully expect those same people to give Moore that same time. 

Offline wba_1996

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1726 on: October 05, 2018, 03:50:04 PM »
we have bucked trends in the past, can we PLEASE buck one more, no sacking manager / coach for a min of 3 years - lets have some stability and BUILD for success, not demand instant gratification.

I’d have loved that, but our transfer business has made that a no-go. Whether it was the decision of Moore, or he had his hands tied, we’ve gone very short-term with our recruitment yet again. Fail to get promoted this season and we’re in a mess, Gayle and Barnes won’t be here next season and almost all of the current squad will be 29+ years old or released.

It’s not like we’ve signed a bunch of kids and we’re relying on our academy graduates, where it’s obvious that we’re trying to build something and the fans can get behind a longer-term project. The club’s recruitment screams they want instant results, so that’s what I’m looking for. If Moore doesn’t get us promoted he’s failed.
« Last Edit: October 05, 2018, 03:52:26 PM by wba_1996 »

Offline SmethDan

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1727 on: October 05, 2018, 04:44:29 PM »
I.thought you were saying that Martis and meiti were in the 2008  promotion team. I meant wasn't meiti bought in the prem.

I remember volmer, Moore and Gilchrist for the first promotion under god Gary.

But, wasn't sure about 2008.

I wasn't saying anything in the first instance as you weren't quoting me  ;D .
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Offline Baggies

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1728 on: October 05, 2018, 05:00:51 PM »
I’d have loved that, but our transfer business has made that a no-go. Whether it was the decision of Moore, or he had his hands tied, we’ve gone very short-term with our recruitment yet again. Fail to get promoted this season and we’re in a mess, Gayle and Barnes won’t be here next season and almost all of the current squad will be 29+ years old or released.

It’s not like we’ve signed a bunch of kids and we’re relying on our academy graduates, where it’s obvious that we’re trying to build something and the fans can get behind a longer-term project. The club’s recruitment screams they want instant results, so that’s what I’m looking for. If Moore doesn’t get us promoted he’s failed.

As much as people will cite this as more negativity, you are 100% right.

All of the sunmer decisions and everything Moore has done so far screams short term.

From our signings to our squad selections and our decisions to keep 5 under 22's in our reserves rather than loaning them out, no decision so far has been taken with a view to the following seasons and future planning.

Moore needs instant success this year or we will be in trouble.

Now in Moore's defence, he has us 1 point off the top after a quarter of the season and ahead of both of the relegated teams. He also got it spot on with the Gayle and Rondon swap (I hold my hands up as having doubts about that deal but he was 100% right).

The players he has brought in for this season's challenge are exactly what we need to make an instant return, butnif he fails we can't use the excuse of "we can't judge until he has had time to shape the squad" because his decision hasn't been to build a project. We have gone down the Stoke route and not the Swansea route (albeit Moore has done it so much better that Rowett so far while playing better football).
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Offline liverbaggie

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1729 on: October 05, 2018, 06:51:19 PM »
Everything is short term now mate,
Players,coaches and managers.
On average 2 or 3 years max.
What is long term?
Enjoy while you can everything comes in cycles.

Offline KYA

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1730 on: October 05, 2018, 07:01:49 PM »
Everything is short term now mate,
Players,coaches and managers.
On average 2 or 3 years max.
What is long term?
Enjoy while you can everything comes in cycles.

Fans want instant success is it any wonder managers only look at short term.

Offline boinging_along

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1731 on: October 05, 2018, 07:08:58 PM »
There was always plenty of Pulis fans saying he needed loads of transfer windows to shape the team as he wanted it. I fully expect those same people to give Moore that same time.

Indeed. Likewise those saying Pulis hasn't done enough to bring in better players after 1 or 2 Windows will also aim the same criticism at Darren Moore.  Pulis would have got slaughtered if he put the team out that Moore did in the cup and lost.

Offline Oldbury24

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1732 on: October 05, 2018, 08:17:43 PM »
If we don't go up who's to say that Darren Moore and the new DF won't use the remaining parachute money to buy young, upcoming talent and build again.  If we go up with this squad we may be back for a period of yo-yoing again anyway. 

Offline wbastrollers

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1733 on: October 05, 2018, 08:44:02 PM »
If we don't go up who's to say that Darren Moore and the new DF won't use the remaining parachute money to buy young, upcoming talent and build again.  If we go up with this squad we may be back for a period of yo-yoing again anyway.

If we don’t go up this season, it is highly unlikely that DM will get that opportunity.

Offline boinging_along

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1734 on: October 05, 2018, 09:18:02 PM »
Regardless of what happens this season next season will require a massive update to the squad. At least in the prem there's money to do it, if we are relying on more parachute payments it will be incredibly tough.

Offline Oldbury24

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1735 on: October 05, 2018, 10:07:47 PM »
If we don’t go up this season, it is highly unlikely that DM will get that opportunity.

Unless the arse completely falls out of our season i just can't see it.   Surely you would back him to go again.   But then i guess things can change quickly in this game.

Offline wbastrollers

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1736 on: October 05, 2018, 10:24:18 PM »
Unless the arse completely falls out of our season i just can't see it.   Surely you would back him to go again.   But then i guess things can change quickly in this game.

The way we finished last season and continue the rest of this season, I would not have to make that decision, because we would have been promoted and Darren would be hailed as truly the ‘Espirito Santo’

Offline Standaman

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1737 on: October 06, 2018, 10:11:21 AM »
I think within the club there is an understanding that we are going through a fairly substantial change in culture and playing style and I would hope that Darren is given the time to see that process through. That means he has to be given at least another season almost regardless of how this season turns out. I don't think any other outcome is fair.

 I believe that this squad is capable of making the play-offs but it is going to be broken up at the end of the season regardless of which Division we find ourselves in. I remember posters commenting on Pulis being given time to bring his players in although I might have not been that sympathetic to that argument because no coach starts with a blank sheet of paper and a measure of a coaches ability is getting the best out of what they have got rather than hand picking talent to match their style. However if that argument has any validity then Darren needs to be given the same latitude.

I would argue that had club appointed a quick fix manager (like Steve Bruce) bet the house on getting out of the division at the first attempt then the whole dynamic is different. Either the manager is delivering or they aren't. If results aren't going your way fire the manager while there is still enough of the season for the next quick fix manager to come in and turn things round. However we did not do that so Darren needs to be given time.
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Offline GREGMT

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1738 on: October 06, 2018, 11:32:17 AM »
I think within the club there is an understanding that we are going through a fairly substantial change in culture and playing style and I would hope that Darren is given the time to see that process through. That means he has to be given at least another season almost regardless of how this season turns out. I don't think any other outcome is fair.

 I believe that this squad is capable of making the play-offs but it is going to be broken up at the end of the season regardless of which Division we find ourselves in. I remember posters commenting on Pulis being given time to bring his players in although I might have not been that sympathetic to that argument because no coach starts with a blank sheet of paper and a measure of a coaches ability is getting the best out of what they have got rather than hand picking talent to match their style. However if that argument has any validity then Darren needs to be given the same latitude.

I would argue that had club appointed a quick fix manager (like Steve Bruce) bet the house on getting out of the division at the first attempt then the whole dynamic is different. Either the manager is delivering or they aren't. If results aren't going your way fire the manager while there is still enough of the season for the next quick fix manager to come in and turn things round. However we did not do that so Darren needs to be given time.

I agree in essence with what you said in that Moore needs to be given time.  I think what DM brings is honesty, integrity, passion, motivation, team ethic and all round good nature.  I would hazard a guess that Graham Jones is having a lot of impact with game awareness and tactics.  You do wonder how “bright” many of the British managers actually are and to what level of detail they go into the game generally.  For instance, you can imagine Guardiola just being a naturally intelligent person.

One thing I don’t agree on is why should we set the bar at Top6?  We have players with vast experience.  I reckon the captures of Hoolahan / Sako will prove to be inspired and no other Championship clubs have done this.  I think we should be aiming to win the league.  Who is there to scare us?  No one is being deluded it’s important to be confident.

Offline wbastrollers

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1739 on: October 06, 2018, 12:37:38 PM »
I agree in essence with what you said in that Moore needs to be given time.  I think what DM brings is honesty, integrity, passion, motivation, team ethic and all round good nature.  I would hazard a guess that Graham Jones is having a lot of impact with game awareness and tactics.  You do wonder how “bright” many of the British managers actually are and to what level of detail they go into the game generally.  For instance, you can imagine Guardiola just being a naturally intelligent person.

One thing I don’t agree on is why should we set the bar at Top6?  We have players with vast experience.  I reckon the captures of Hoolahan / Sako will prove to be inspired and no other Championship clubs have done this.  I think we should be aiming to win the league.  Who is there to scare us?  No one is being deluded it’s important to be confident.
I think we should be aiming to win the league.  Who is there to scare us?
Bartley & Mears!?
« Last Edit: October 06, 2018, 12:39:22 PM by wbastrollers »

Offline frazzle

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1740 on: October 06, 2018, 04:58:18 PM »
Fantastic once again from Moore who got the team going after half time. He also managed to avoid the manager of the month jinx.

Hopefully get more training into the back 3, get the team rested and get philips and Sako in the squad for the next game.

Superb stuff.

Offline alex1

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1741 on: October 06, 2018, 05:59:51 PM »
Just heard a stat that we have, at the beginning of October, scored as many goals as we managed the whole of last season under Pulis/Pardew.
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Offline Chipperfan

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1742 on: October 06, 2018, 06:27:29 PM »
Just heard a stat that we have, at the beginning of October, scored as many goals as we managed the whole of last season under Pulis/Pardew.

Incredible isn’t it? And when our forward play clicks it’s wonderful to watch. Exhilarating football from Albion.

Thank you Darren.
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Offline BalisPen

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1743 on: October 06, 2018, 06:34:54 PM »
Well done big Dave you are doing a tremendous job.

Bringing in your longtime friend Jones was a masterstroke when  Appleton was being mooted by the media.

I was worried about the full-time appointment as I always want any new manager to have earnt out top job with at least 2 promotions under his belt, but he is doing great under very bad circumstances, as I don't believe he ever thought he'd be scratching around for players in their late 30's for his squad when he got the job.

Hopefully, Jenkins sorts out the finances and dowling sorts out some good scouts and we have some gems lined up in January to boost us in what hopefully will be a final push then.

Maybe Ayling swap for Bartley, who they like at Leeds and Mckenna from the dons if dekka does us a good deal.

Offline Standaman

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1744 on: October 06, 2018, 08:05:00 PM »

One thing I don’t agree on is why should we set the bar at Top6?  We have players with vast experience.  I reckon the captures of Hoolahan / Sako will prove to be inspired and no other Championship clubs have done this.  I think we should be aiming to win the league.  Who is there to scare us?  No one is being deluded it’s important to be confident.

In short the Championship is possibly the most competitive league in world football played over 46 games with relatively thin squads. I therefore would n't burden any team or manager with a benchmark of automatic promotion as a baseline. Top 6 is  reasonable and obviously that does include the 2 automatic promotion spots but there is a degree of luck involved and while it be wrong to suggest that luck will be the key determent those promoted won't be unlucky for sure.   
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Offline slate

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1745 on: October 06, 2018, 08:40:40 PM »
Well done big Dave you are doing a tremendous job.

Bringing in your longtime friend Jones was a masterstroke when  Appleton was being mooted by the media.

I was worried about the full-time appointment as I always want any new manager to have earnt out top job with at least 2 promotions under his belt, but he is doing great under very bad circumstances, as I don't believe he ever thought he'd be scratching around for players in their late 30's for his squad when he got the job.

Hopefully, Jenkins sorts out the finances and dowling sorts out some good scouts and we have some gems lined up in January to boost us in what hopefully will be a final push then.

Maybe Ayling swap for Bartley, who they like at Leeds and Mckenna from the dons if dekka does us a good deal.

After a wonderful win today I can't believe you're souring the victory with talk of shipping out Bartley! He was integral within the team today. Try and be happy!

Offline BalisPen

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1746 on: October 06, 2018, 10:44:50 PM »
In short the Championship is possibly the most competitive league in world football played over 46 games with relatively thin squads. I therefore would n't burden any team or manager with a benchmark of automatic promotion as a baseline. Top 6 is  reasonable and obviously that does include the 2 automatic promotion spots but there is a degree of luck involved and while it be wrong to suggest that luck will be the key determent those promoted won't be unlucky for sure.   

I agree this league is competitive and relentless.

The stronger the squad the better your chance to be in the top 6.

Carlos carvahal, a manager I rate, was sacked last season by sheff wed when he had a whole first team out injured, after getting to the play offs the season before.

You need luck and a good medical team to get into the top six in this league with a good squad.

Offline Nocky

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1747 on: October 07, 2018, 12:49:44 AM »
He’s done well and I like the fact he has a clear footballing philosophy and way of playing. Still lots of room for improvement. We’ve been unconvincing for large parts of the season and we’re far too open through the middle of the park. This needs to be addressed, as does the away performances.

Would like to see him be a bit more flexible with the formation and personnel away from home. I think the same attacking 3412 leaves us too open. Perhaps dropping one of the strikers for another midfielder would be worth a try with Barnes playing off either Gayle or J Rod.
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Offline don1thedon

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #1749 on: October 08, 2018, 03:19:37 PM »