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Offline elkiellis

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2500 on: January 02, 2019, 01:28:27 PM »
Why will we probably get nothing there?
that's exactly what I said in my post,and we were both right

Offline Dexy

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2501 on: January 02, 2019, 03:24:13 PM »
I have to say  I'm a bit shocked by the amount of stick Moore gets every sticky result we have , some of it is way over the top IMO especially the dreaded social media sites.
The club itself has been run like an absolute shambles the last 18 months which for me ended up with cut backs and Summer training camps involving a few first teamers , loads of kids and three or four trialists well past their sell by dates . To add to that we've had to boost the squad after that deadline with Mears , Wes and Sako .
Two of those are well into their 30's and the other had a career threatening injury , what other team aiming for promotion has to do that ? . I can only hope better quality comes in this next month.
Don't get me wrong , Moore has made mistakes like every novice will and not bringing Sako or Harper on at Rotherham stood out much like the Jones lead 3 at the back which I hope never returns .
Given the mess we were in in my view he's done well , not perfect by any means but not worth some of the stick flying around at times in my humble .
Just to add I understand the frustration with the kids but frankly I don't think some are up to it now and if the club hadn't got in such a tangle then some of them like Field and Harper should have been sent out on loan . I blame the club for that and the silly EFL rule about loans and the window , not Moore .
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 03:31:44 PM by Dexy »
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Offline Mister AT

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2502 on: January 02, 2019, 03:33:37 PM »
I have to say  I'm a bit shocked by the amount of stick Moore gets every sticky result we have , some of it is way over the top IMO especially the dreaded social media sites.
The club itself has been run like an absolute shambles the last 18 months which for me ended up with cut backs and Summer training camps involving a few first teamers , loads of kids and three or four trialists well past their sell by dates . To add to that we've had to boost the squad after that deadline with Mears , Wes and Sako .
Two of those are well into their 30's and the other had a career threatening injury , what other team aiming for promotion has to do that ? . I can only hope better quality comes in this next month.
Don't get me wrong , Moore has made mistakes like every novice will and not bringing Sako or Harper on at Rotherham stood out much like the Jones lead 3 at the back which I hope never returns .
Given the mess we were in in my view he's done well , not perfect by any means but not worth some of the stick flying around at times in my humble .


Spot on mate.

For me its plain to see Sako, Wes and Mears were signed as squad fillers as he had probably missed out/been let down on his priority targets.

You only have to look at his signings to date to know that the 3 above don't fit in that mould (add to that they have hardly featured, Mears has featured the most due to being the only option).

Look at Gayle, Barnes, Townsend, Tosin, Johnstone, Holgate - all of those are the right side of 30, with majority of them being young players who have got a bright future.

Also look at the other targets he went for, Bobby Reid - again young and hungry. Its  clear to see what type of player he wanted to bring in.

The mess this club was in and the amount of work DM would have had to take on, on top of this being his first crack at management and the lack of an assistant for the summer, he deserves a lot more credit for the position we now find ourselves in.

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Offline Dexy

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2503 on: January 02, 2019, 03:40:36 PM »

Spot on mate.

For me its plain to see Sako, Wes and Mears were signed as squad fillers as he had probably missed out/been let down on his priority targets.

You only have to look at his signings to date to know that the 3 above don't fit in that mould (add to that they have hardly featured, Mears has featured the most due to being the only option).

Look at Gayle, Barnes, Townsend, Tosin, Johnstone, Holgate - all of those are the right side of 30, with majority of them being young players who have got a bright future.

Also look at the other targets he went for, Bobby Reid - again young and hungry. Its  clear to see what type of player he wanted to bring in.

The mess this club was in and the amount of work DM would have had to take on, on top of this being his first crack at management and the lack of an assistant for the summer, he deserves a lot more credit for the position we now find ourselves in.
Agreed , the only one I'd flag up is Bartley so far but he was never suited to a three and I've seen him play well enough in a four elsewhere .
This was his first Xmas as a manager in a league where the games come thick and fast with an ageing squad and very little quality outside the first 11 to 13 players , he needs backing from the board and help from Dowling if we want to go up .
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Offline Mister AT

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2504 on: January 02, 2019, 03:50:04 PM »
Agreed , the only one I'd flag up is Bartley so far but he was never suited to a three and I've seen him play well enough in a four elsewhere .
This was his first Xmas as a manager in a league where the games come thick and fast with an ageing squad and very little quality outside the first 11 to 13 players , he needs backing from the board and help from Dowling if we want to go up .

I knew I had forgot someone. Even when we signed Bartley, myself like many others would have said it was a solid signing, on paper it was an experienced centre back with knowledge of the league and Leeds wanted to keep him.

I think the back 3 formation has killed his confidence, but that's for another thread.

Like you said, lets just hope he gets a bit more backing from the board this window.
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Offline Xpresso

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2505 on: January 02, 2019, 04:00:41 PM »
He’s naturally right footed and not happy playing on the left. The transition isn’t easy when you’ve played on the right all your career. Having said that, he does look slow at times and for a man his size easily knocked off the ball

Offline GREGMT

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2506 on: January 02, 2019, 04:36:43 PM »
1) No one adequately answered why selection mistakes have been this bad.  I listed respective gametime afforded to each player.
2) No one has justified that the squads of the Top 3 are superior to ours.
3) We are operating at a huge financial advantage thanks to £100m prize money for being in the Prem.

Why should we settle for scraping the play offs.  Talk about a lack of confidence and ambition.

Offline SmethDan

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2507 on: January 02, 2019, 04:39:46 PM »
He’s naturally right footed and not happy playing on the left. The transition isn’t easy when you’ve played on the right all your career. Having said that, he does look slow at times and for a man his size easily knocked off the ball

I keep reading this but he played the majority of games during his time at Leeds on the left of a central two alongside Pontus Jansson.
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Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2508 on: January 02, 2019, 04:55:03 PM »
I keep reading this but he played the majority of games during his time at Leeds on the left of a central two alongside Pontus Jansson.


He's woeful end of. Worse than the likes of Raven and Strodder.
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Offline SmethDan

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2509 on: January 02, 2019, 05:14:25 PM »

He's woeful end of. Worse than the likes of Raven and Strodder.

I wish the best for any Albion player and always hope to see improvement over time. That said I'm really not a fan of his either. Despite the odd moment in games nothing's changed for me on that score from the moment I watched him against Aberdeen. I've never really thought of him in comparison to Raven and Strodder before. Frightening :-X .
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Offline halifax_baggie

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2510 on: January 02, 2019, 05:17:07 PM »

He's woeful end of. Worse than the likes of Raven and Strodder.

But not as bad as Stacey North :P

Offline mulliganstired

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2511 on: January 02, 2019, 06:25:47 PM »
I think he's overused Barnes, he should have been given a game off over Xmas he's looking jaded.

Offline albion59

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2512 on: January 02, 2019, 06:54:59 PM »
I think he's overused Barnes, he should have been given a game off over Xmas he's looking jaded.
Over used? He's a young lad who should be fit enough to play at least 3 times a week.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2019, 07:29:00 PM by Dexy »

Offline Adder

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2513 on: January 02, 2019, 09:19:18 PM »
Over used? He's a young lad who should be fit enough to play at least 3 times a week.
He is fit enough to play 3 games a week....but don't expect him to be sharp all that time and to stay sharp through the season. There's a longer term mental side to things and playing at a high level the recovery/preparation time between games is very important.

Offline mulliganstired

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2514 on: January 02, 2019, 10:25:44 PM »
He is fit enough to play 3 games a week....but don't expect him to be sharp all that time and to stay sharp through the season. There's a longer term mental side to things and playing at a high level the recovery/preparation time between games is very important.
I agree, physically fit enough yes, and I'm sure he'll tell Moore he's up for it, but that's not all there is to it

Offline wba_1996

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2515 on: January 03, 2019, 12:17:56 AM »
1) No one adequately answered why selection mistakes have been this bad.  I listed respective gametime afforded to each player.
2) No one has justified that the squads of the Top 3 are superior to ours.
3) We are operating at a huge financial advantage thanks to £100m prize money for being in the Prem.

Why should we settle for scraping the play offs.  Talk about a lack of confidence and ambition.

Spot on. Overall his team selection has been poor, his substitutions have been awful. We've played somwhere between poor and mediocre in most games, good in 4 or 5. The fact that we're still well-placed for promotion shows 2 things, the lack of any standout teams in the league and the quality we have in certain areas that the majority of teams haven't got access to.

I was expecting us to fight for 2nd at the start of the season, but because Stoke appointed one of the worst managers they could have gone for, we should have had a clear run at the title. Overall, I'd say we're slightly underachieving this season. 

Offline paulosull

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2516 on: January 03, 2019, 12:28:55 AM »
Spot on. Overall his team selection has been poor, his substitutions have been awful. We've played somwhere between poor and mediocre in most games, good in 4 or 5. The fact that we're still well-placed for promotion shows 2 things, the lack of any standout teams in the league and the quality we have in certain areas that the majority of teams haven't got access to.

I was expecting us to fight for 2nd at the start of the season, but because Stoke appointed one of the worst managers they could have gone for, we should have had a clear run at the title. Overall, I'd say we're slightly underachieving this season.
agree with your post, we should be peeing this league as the football is tripe. Moore has produced one good performance against Leeds where team has played to its potential, but his inability to sort out his defence and his insistence on using Brunt in midfield for so long was infuriating.

Offline Oldbury24

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2517 on: January 03, 2019, 12:57:42 PM »
It would appear that the standpoint on whether Darren Moore is doing well, indifferent or poor this year depends very much on interpretation of the quality of squad we have. 

Those who think we have by far the best squad in the division full of seven or eight Premier League quality players who would walk into any team in the Division understandably think we should be walking away with the league and anything but Top Two would be a disappointment.

Others (including myself) recognise that the majority of these players were the ones relegated, which puts a question mark against that quality.  They also recognise that a good squad is all about balance and requires energy and pace as well as experience.  They have also watched a number of these players over a period of years now and made up their own minds on the relative quality on display.

I agree that missing out on promotion this year would be disappointing, but i think we are at least three (if Holgate comes off) or four players short of being good enough to pull away top two.  And i don't think the missing players need necessarily be Premier League standard, but more so in the 23-28 bracket with legs, pace hunger and an attacking instinct.  Unfortunately i don't see these players arriving in January as the market offers no value*, so promotion will be as much a lottery for us as other teams around the top 6 based on injuries and suspensions to our best players (Gayle and Phillips particularly). 

*The other argument is that we should be top two based on our financial clout.  I think it has been made clear that we have spend what we earned from our time in the Premier League (£200k + per week for Sturridge and the Pole) and we have no more clout than other clubs around the top 10 that do get bankrolled.

Offline Atomic

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2518 on: January 03, 2019, 01:08:33 PM »
It would appear that the standpoint on whether Darren Moore is doing well, indifferent or poor this year depends very much on interpretation of the quality of squad we have. 

Those who think we have by far the best squad in the division full of seven or eight Premier League quality players who would walk into any team in the Division understandably think we should be walking away with the league and anything but Top Two would be a disappointment.

Others (including myself) recognise that the majority of these players were the ones relegated, which puts a question mark against that quality.  They also recognise that a good squad is all about balance and requires energy and pace as well as experience.  They have also watched a number of these players over a period of years now and made up their own minds on the relative quality on display.

I agree that missing out on promotion this year would be disappointing, but i think we are at least three (if Holgate comes off) or four players short of being good enough to pull away top two.  And i don't think the missing players need necessarily be Premier League standard, but more so in the 23-28 bracket with legs, pace hunger and an attacking instinct.  Unfortunately i don't see these players arriving in January as the market offers no value*, so promotion will be as much a lottery for us as other teams around the top 6 based on injuries and suspensions to our best players (Gayle and Phillips particularly). 

*The other argument is that we should be top two based on our financial clout.  I think it has been made clear that we have spend what we earned from our time in the Premier League (£200k + per week for Sturridge and the Pole) and we have no more clout than other clubs around the top 10 that do get bankrolled.


Hegazi, Gibbs, Barry, Phillips, Barnes and Gayle are massive for us. If we lose even one we get affected. Anyone else we can sort of bodge around, those six are real, genuine Premier League quality and they carry us to a huge extent. Some will disagree on Gayle but he's never played in a front foot Premier League team that compliments him.

Then, outside the (first choice) first eleven the bench is average even by Championship standards. The likes of Mears / Hoolahan / Bartley / Sako / Burke / Robson - Kanu are a huge downgrade and shouldn't be at the club if we expect to be genuine Premier League material. 
« Last Edit: January 03, 2019, 01:15:39 PM by Atomic »

Offline Windmill Baggy

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2519 on: January 03, 2019, 01:44:27 PM »
It would appear that the standpoint on whether Darren Moore is doing well, indifferent or poor this year depends very much on interpretation of the quality of squad we have. 

Those who think we have by far the best squad in the division full of seven or eight Premier League quality players who would walk into any team in the Division understandably think we should be walking away with the league and anything but Top Two would be a disappointment.

Others (including myself) recognise that the majority of these players were the ones relegated, which puts a question mark against that quality.  They also recognise that a good squad is all about balance and requires energy and pace as well as experience.  They have also watched a number of these players over a period of years now and made up their own minds on the relative quality on display.

I agree that missing out on promotion this year would be disappointing, but i think we are at least three (if Holgate comes off) or four players short of being good enough to pull away top two.  And i don't think the missing players need necessarily be Premier League standard, but more so in the 23-28 bracket with legs, pace hunger and an attacking instinct.  Unfortunately i don't see these players arriving in January as the market offers no value*, so promotion will be as much a lottery for us as other teams around the top 6 based on injuries and suspensions to our best players (Gayle and Phillips particularly). 

*The other argument is that we should be top two based on our financial clout.  I think it has been made clear that we have spend what we earned from our time in the Premier League (£200k + per week for Sturridge and the Pole) and we have no more clout than other clubs around the top 10 that do get bankrolled.

I think we have the best first XI in the division: 4-3-3 lining up with Jonhstone, Holgate, Gibbs, Dawson, Hegazi, Livermore, Barry, Philips, Barnes, Rodriguez, Gayle. Our bench is limited though, and it is this that needs reinforcing in the window. We need another defender (probably a RB) and a couple of energetic, attack minded midfielders to give us options off the bench/cover for injuries. If we can do that by the end of January, let Mears and Hoolahan go while perhaps loaning out Burke and Field at the same time, we will be in great shape to go for a top 2 finish.

I think DM has done a fantastic job and we are superbly placed for the run in, but his success so far for me means the goalposts for the rest of the season have now changed. If we keep the first XI fit from here on in I expect a 2 point per game average, perhaps even slightly better and that should see us finish in the top 2.

Offline Mister AT

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2520 on: January 03, 2019, 02:01:26 PM »
It would appear that the standpoint on whether Darren Moore is doing well, indifferent or poor this year depends very much on interpretation of the quality of squad we have. 

Those who think we have by far the best squad in the division full of seven or eight Premier League quality players who would walk into any team in the Division understandably think we should be walking away with the league and anything but Top Two would be a disappointment.

Others (including myself) recognise that the majority of these players were the ones relegated, which puts a question mark against that quality.  They also recognise that a good squad is all about balance and requires energy and pace as well as experience.  They have also watched a number of these players over a period of years now and made up their own minds on the relative quality on display.

I agree that missing out on promotion this year would be disappointing, but i think we are at least three (if Holgate comes off) or four players short of being good enough to pull away top two.  And i don't think the missing players need necessarily be Premier League standard, but more so in the 23-28 bracket with legs, pace hunger and an attacking instinct.  Unfortunately i don't see these players arriving in January as the market offers no value*, so promotion will be as much a lottery for us as other teams around the top 6 based on injuries and suspensions to our best players (Gayle and Phillips particularly). 

*The other argument is that we should be top two based on our financial clout.  I think it has been made clear that we have spend what we earned from our time in the Premier League (£200k + per week for Sturridge and the Pole) and we have no more clout than other clubs around the top 10 that do get bankrolled.

If we mark it on squads then hes doing a great job in my opinion. Whilst we have a handful of players who could play in the premier league, we also have a handful of championship players.

I would say Stoke and Villa arguably have better squads, with the likes of Boro being on a par with us.

Stoke were many pundits favourites to run away with this league, and Rowett was a manager a fair few baggies fans wanted, we are doing much better than them.
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Offline Dexy

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2521 on: January 03, 2019, 02:03:55 PM »
I get the youth issue some have with Moore as there's nothing better than one of your own even if our last turned into a spoilt brat . While I'd love to see some come through I do understand its Moore job on the line , this could be his one go at a decent job let alone a lower league gig .Thats the harsh reality and I think one reason he sticks with the tried and tested , I'm pretty sure if he'd had a better squad in the Summer our better hopes would have been out on loan.
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Offline Dexy

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2522 on: January 03, 2019, 02:07:07 PM »
If we mark it on squads then hes doing a great job in my opinion. Whilst we have a handful of players who could play in the premier league, we also have a handful of championship players.

I would say Stoke and Villa arguably have better squads, with the likes of Boro being on a par with us.

Stoke were many pundits favourites to run away with this league, and Rowett was a manager a fair few baggies fans wanted, we are doing much better than them.
You can add Forest to the better squad list too , great mix of young talent , older heads and stylish players .
For me our first 11 match anybody , the squad however is far from it.
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Offline GREGMT

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2523 on: January 03, 2019, 04:16:35 PM »
So why has Moore seen fit to give Bartley 1500 mins with mistake after mistake?

Similarly, Brunt whilst not as bad as Bartley  has ruined the midfield's effectiveness, limiting goal scoring chances.

This can be sought from the training ground.  Even if they had a short run in matches Moore didn't pick up on it.

Offline Dexy

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2524 on: January 03, 2019, 04:32:18 PM »
So why has Moore seen fit to give Bartley 1500 mins with mistake after mistake?

Similarly, Brunt whilst not as bad as Bartley  has ruined the midfield's effectiveness, limiting goal scoring chances.

This can be sought from the training ground.  Even if they had a short run in matches Moore didn't pick up on it.
Mistake after mistake is stretching it plus he isn't going to sign someone and ditch him 3 games in , lets not forget Dawson was nowhere to be seen for a long spell and by several accounts Hegazi wanted out too .
Brunt wouldn't my choice in the middle  yet without him coming on against Villa that equaliser doesn't happen.
As I've said to you before if you expect a rookie manager to have all the answers from day one I think you will be asking too much , this isn't Football Manager , Fifa 1 to 19 or Subbuteo.
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