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Offline royhan

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2300 on: December 05, 2018, 09:26:16 AM »
I have said before that football is a simple game, the rules and basics are understood by children at Primary school.
I have also said footballers are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Most of us on here, well probably all of us,( some won't admit it for being seen as moaners or Dingles,) can see the obvious in a football game. ie if a player is tired, or if a formation is not working. It's not rocket science.
My biggest  gripe is these so called football managers who leave the best striker in the division on the bench, play left footed players in CM, Cb's at fullback and have strikers working the channels.
What in the name of God is that all about?
Gayle has said he would like to stay, so we keep sticking him on the bench. We play barely average defenders in a back three, despite it keep costing us goals.
Either the man is as dense as a piece of timber or he is so arrogant he doesn't want to admit he'
I think badges are just a bit of a cosmetic practice to give thick people a bit of confidence, a bit like the Wizard of Oz giving the scarecrow and Lion a diploma and medal.
It's not just Darren, i like the guy, but football in general..
For me a great simple exciting game has been turned more into a game of chess by clueless idiots.
Football is simple, play your best players in their best positions.
Having said that, we are third in the championship and Darren has a great record from the games he had in the prem.
You tell me, is it just beginners luck?

Excellent post Divinewind. I am sure that the majority of Albion fans will share your thoughts. Moore was appointed largely because of his past affinity with the club but football is such big business nowadays that there is no room for sentimentality. I'd like to read Jenkins' thoughts today. Knowing what he knows now would he have appointed Moore or Smith? I know which one I would have chosen. A defeat against the Villa will be disastrous for players' confidence and I can see us slipping down the table if we do lose. What has happened to our so called future stars - Leko, Burke and Edwards? They shone in pre-season but have hardly had a look in since as Moore has stuck largely with the players that got us relegated. I fear for the rest of the season.

Offline albion59

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2301 on: December 05, 2018, 09:44:00 AM »
I really despair of what I read on here! We have a bad result against a team we should have  battered but we have no right to expect to batter anyone we are not going to win every game despite what some on here think
 Any way back to Monday night we drew because our strikers couldn't finish and our defenders couldn't defend! How the hell is that Darren Moore's fault? Because Gayle was on the bench? No because if he had started there is no guarantee he would have scored or those chances would have been created also I would have started with the same team that had won the last 3.

Offline Albionic

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2302 on: December 05, 2018, 09:47:49 AM »
Another recurring theme with WBAFC, (not just through DM's tenure, although it persists) is the strategy of sitting back and defending a one goal lead.

Why not keep the ball in the front 2/3 of the pitch, too often when a team drops back into defensive mode the opposition manage to create chances.
What is wrong with running the ball into the corners, passing back and forth across the line and god forbid going for another goal. Yes that will go wrong occasionally but reverting to defensive posture goes wrong REGULARLY.

Before someone says look how many we have scored, i would also point out how many we have conceded particularly against teams in the lower half when leading.

Please, please can we defend from the front,
Lovin the championship, just lovin it !

Offline seteefeet

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2303 on: December 05, 2018, 09:59:15 AM »
Excellent post Divinewind. I am sure that the majority of Albion fans will share your thoughts. Moore was appointed largely because of his past affinity with the club but football is such big business nowadays that there is no room for sentimentality. I'd like to read Jenkins' thoughts today. Knowing what he knows now would he have appointed Moore or Smith? I know which one I would have chosen. A defeat against the Villa will be disastrous for players' confidence and I can see us slipping down the table if we do lose. What has happened to our so called future stars - Leko, Burke and Edwards? They shone in pre-season but have hardly had a look in since as Moore has stuck largely with the players that got us relegated. I fear for the rest of the season.
What if we beat Villa (and therefore Smith)?

Offline Mister AT

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2304 on: December 05, 2018, 10:21:23 AM »
I have said before that football is a simple game, the rules and basics are understood by children at Primary school.
I have also said footballers are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Most of us on here, well probably all of us,( some won't admit it for being seen as moaners or Dingles,) can see the obvious in a football game. ie if a player is tired, or if a formation is not working. It's not rocket science.
My biggest  gripe is these so called football managers who leave the best striker in the division on the bench, play left footed players in CM, Cb's at fullback and have strikers working the channels.
What in the name of God is that all about?
Gayle has said he would like to stay, so we keep sticking him on the bench. We play barely average defenders in a back three, despite it keep costing us goals.
Either the man is as dense as a piece of timber or he is so arrogant he doesn't want to admit he's wrong.
I think badges are just a bit of a cosmetic practice to give thick people a bit of confidence, a bit like the Wizard of Oz giving the scarecrow and Lion a diploma and medal.
It's not just Darren, i like the guy, but football in general.
For me a great simple exciting game has been turned more into a game of chess by clueless idiots.
Football is simple, play your best players in their best positions.
Having said that, we are third in the championship and Darren has a great record from the games he had in the prem.
You tell me, is it just beginners luck?

Great post mate and spot on with a lot of your comments.

One question though, why cant we play left footed players in centre midfield?
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Offline Backofthenet

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2305 on: December 05, 2018, 12:18:26 PM »
Great post about how simple the game is. I have been on here many times saying exactly the same thing. My problem with so called modern day football is that it has been turned into a science.
Imagine having an Ipad and showing it to Bomber Brown as he was about to come on. What would it say? "try and score" To John Wile " Stop them scoring"
These players are here because those in the 'so called' know think they can play, so let them play. Just try to put them in the right place in the team. Yes we are going to make mistakes at times but in all fairness we are making too many late in games. Giles would never have let that happen from a leading position. It is all pretty obvious - if we are winning try to get more or see the game out. against QPR that worked well and we all felt good. No matter how much we battered Brentford we still drew and you don't get points for nearly winning. As someone else has said you are going to concede the odd late goal and slip the odd point but we do it far to often. Our goal difference should be what it is called - a huge difference. That's why it is part of the deciding factor in where teams finish. Score loads and don't concede is what is needed. Unless you win every game 5- 4 which we won't.
Let's hope for something on Friday to give us a smile for the weekend. 

Offline mulliganstired

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2306 on: December 05, 2018, 12:43:14 PM »
Another recurring theme with WBAFC, (not just through DM's tenure, although it persists) is the strategy of sitting back and defending a one goal lead.

Why not keep the ball in the front 2/3 of the pitch, too often when a team drops back into defensive mode the opposition manage to create chances.
What is wrong with running the ball into the corners, passing back and forth across the line and god forbid going for another goal. Yes that will go wrong occasionally but reverting to defensive posture goes wrong REGULARLY.

Before someone says look how many we have scored, i would also point out how many we have conceded particularly against teams in the lower half when leading.

Please, please can we defend from the front,
I think the problem at the end against Brentford is that we did neither, we didn't go for the kill, and we didn't go back into a proper defensive shape - no-one made a decision, so the defenders, being defenders, drifted backwards, while some were still trying to make breaks - Morrison lost the ball on the touchline just before their goal because he tried to beat two players, and if he had we could have been away on the break, it just bobbled their way off someone's shins if I saw it right, and they went forward and ended up scoring soon after.  I wouldn't have minded so much if they had scored as a result of the game going basketball and us trying for the second, but we didn't, we just sort of tried to hang in there.

Basically we had no shape at the end and no-one did anything about it.

Offline KN22

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2307 on: December 05, 2018, 01:07:52 PM »
What if we beat Villa (and therefore Smith)?

Exactly! It is quite alarming to me how many of our own assume we will lose this game. We could lose it.... but we may well not!!

Offline seteefeet

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2308 on: December 05, 2018, 01:23:10 PM »
Exactly! It is quite alarming to me how many of our own assume we will lose this game. We could lose it.... but we may well not!!
Not just assuming we will lose but that we will inevitably plummet down the league as a consequence.
I don't know what it is either. We are above them in the league and our current form is on par with theirs yet we appear to have no chance!
There is the width of a fag paper between us and it could go either way, but it will not be season defining.

My feeling is that, it hurts so much to lose these games and the bragging rights are submitted, at least until the next meeting, that we are that scared of getting beat we prepare ourselves for the worst. This leads to us subconsciously ignoring all the positives and convincing ourselves that we can't possibly win. It's the standard defence mechanism of the football fan. ;D

Let's have some Noel Edmunds style cosmic order and all think positive. Altogether now.... Hhommmmmmmmmmmmmm

Offline Oldbury24

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2309 on: December 05, 2018, 02:31:35 PM »
I think the problem at the end against Brentford is that we did neither, we didn't go for the kill, and we didn't go back into a proper defensive shape - no-one made a decision, so the defenders, being defenders, drifted backwards, while some were still trying to make breaks - Morrison lost the ball on the touchline just before their goal because he tried to beat two players, and if he had we could have been away on the break, it just bobbled their way off someone's shins if I saw it right, and they went forward and ended up scoring soon after.  I wouldn't have minded so much if they had scored as a result of the game going basketball and us trying for the second, but we didn't, we just sort of tried to hang in there.

Basically we had no shape at the end and no-one did anything about it.

Spot on!! It was a real clustermessup. 

Players - In a team yet to keep a clean sheet the players hit the panic button and dropped deep to protect the lead.  At one point our only means of playing the ball out was to hit Tosin on the half way line who just flicked the ball away each time -  again drawing Brentford on.

Management - Regardless of how they scored it was coming, we could all see/feel that it was coming. The whole stadium fans and players were clenching buttocks.  I can understand that a manger with faith in his players would keep things as they were as we had dominated most of the game...but I'm hoping they learn.   As much as Brentford's gamesmanship was soooo frustrating I would have been happy to see us make substitutions just to break up Brentford's impetus and see our players writhe around on the floor like they had been snipered.   If we cannot close out a game against a team we have just dominated then we will not challenge for the top 2.  Simples.

Still happy with Darren Moore though.  Any manager that can set a team up so they should be leading 6-0 at half time is doing something right and he needs to be backed in January with a RB and CM at least as

a. Tosin cannot do the job of an attacking RB so when Brentford closed down Gibbs side in the second half there was no alternative to go wide right.
b.  Mozza has made a massive difference to this team, and he looks fitter and sharper than for a few years....but will he last the season?


« Last Edit: December 05, 2018, 02:33:11 PM by Oldbury24 »

Offline Oldbury24

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2310 on: December 05, 2018, 03:01:26 PM »
I have said before that football is a simple game, the rules and basics are understood by children at Primary school.
I have also said footballers are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed.
Most of us on here, well probably all of us,( some won't admit it for being seen as moaners or Dingles,) can see the obvious in a football game. ie if a player is tired, or if a formation is not working. It's not rocket science.
My biggest  gripe is these so called football managers who leave the best striker in the division on the bench, play left footed players in CM, Cb's at fullback and have strikers working the channels.
What in the name of God is that all about?
Gayle has said he would like to stay, so we keep sticking him on the bench. We play barely average defenders in a back three, despite it keep costing us goals.
Either the man is as dense as a piece of timber or he is so arrogant he doesn't want to admit he's wrong.
I think badges are just a bit of a cosmetic practice to give thick people a bit of confidence, a bit like the Wizard of Oz giving the scarecrow and Lion a diploma and medal.
It's not just Darren, i like the guy, but football in general.
For me a great simple exciting game has been turned more into a game of chess by clueless idiots.
Football is simple, play your best players in their best positions.
Having said that, we are third in the championship and Darren has a great record from the games he had in the prem.
You tell me, is it just beginners luck?

Much to agree with in this post - once of SGM's greatest qualities whilst at the Hawthorns was bringing in players that were specialists in their position and sticking them there.   No fullbacks so in comes Lyttle and Clem.  Easy to beat in the air at corners so in came Butler.  Lacking captains? just go out and buy everybody else's (at one point I think we had four ex club captains in the first 11).  But what SGM did was bring in players to rectify the identified weaknesses.   Once Bartley, Barnes and Gayle had arrived Darren Moore was basically left to fill the remaining gaps with freebies and best mates!! I can guarantee they weren't his first choices.   So you get a CB at RB and Brunty in CM. 

However, in regards to dense or arrogant I have seen many more experienced football managers here who would have taken a lot longer than Darren Moore to change from a preferred way of playing.  Three? poor results in a 3-5-2 and we are playing 4-3-3 against Leeds and back on the up.  I agree that we struggled defensively at times in a 3-5-2 but we were winning games and scoring goals, isn't that what we all wanted? On the whole I was loving the 3-5-2 experiment and fully expect us to play that way again once the squad is supplemented. 

Offline paulosull

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2311 on: December 06, 2018, 12:56:14 AM »
Don't mind either system but our problem was asking defender's to play silky football from the back which none of them are use to or comfortable doing.

Online TheJacko2000

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2312 on: December 08, 2018, 01:47:15 AM »
Picked a team to dominate tonight, we definitely missed Mozza and HRK we but while the scores were level we were by far the better side... Dean Smith... another manager schooled by Big Darren Moore.
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Offline costa blanca baggie

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2313 on: December 08, 2018, 02:30:07 AM »
Picked a team to dominate tonight, we definitely missed Mozza and HRK we but while the scores were level we were by far the better side... Dean Smith... another manager schooled by Big Darren Moore.
A good game to watch. A derby. Nobody schooled anyone.
Humanity is a parade of fools, and I’m at the front of it...twirling the baton.

Offline iwastherein68

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2314 on: December 08, 2018, 07:47:40 AM »
Picked a team to dominate tonight, we definitely missed Mozza and HRK we but while the scores were level we were by far the better side... Dean Smith... another manager schooled by Big Darren Moore.
That made me laugh Jacko!
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Offline WBArgo

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2315 on: December 08, 2018, 08:15:39 AM »
It's been obvious since day 1 that Moore's weakness at this level is conceding. We scored 2 tonight at home and still didn't win, whenever you go 1 goal up, you know you need at least 1 more because you will end up conceding at some point.

Sort the defence out and we go up, otherwise we stay down.
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Online Dexy

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2316 on: December 08, 2018, 09:28:06 AM »
Now's not the time to knee jerk , thats exactly how you get in trouble . Things from Moore need to improve , too much patching up and getting by this season .
We almost need to go back to basics again defending wise , stopping crosses , staying with your man , keeping your shape. Basics.
While there's things I question about Moore I will add he's been given little to work with , what side chasing promotion has to sign Mears , Wes and a knackered Sako ?
He's needs backing at least a right back , midfielder and striker.
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Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2317 on: December 08, 2018, 09:51:44 AM »
Now's not the time to knee jerk , thats exactly how you get in trouble . Things from Moore need to improve , too much patching up and getting by this season .
We almost need to go back to basics again defending wise , stopping crosses , staying with your man , keeping your shape. Basics.
While there's things I question about Moore I will add he's been given little to work with , what side chasing promotion has to sign Mears , Wes and a knackered Sako ?
He's needs backing at least a right back , midfielder and striker.

I don't think things can be considered knee jerk when you have been watching it for 21 games.

Having to score 2/3 goals to get something out of a game is ridiculous.

Offline Mo

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2318 on: December 08, 2018, 09:56:27 AM »
Now's not the time to knee jerk , thats exactly how you get in trouble . Things from Moore need to improve , too much patching up and getting by this season .
We almost need to go back to basics again defending wise , stopping crosses , staying with your man , keeping your shape. Basics.
While there's things I question about Moore I will add he's been given little to work with , what side chasing promotion has to sign Mears , Wes and a knackered Sako ?
He's needs backing at least a right back , midfielder and striker.

The problem we have is that we have our first 11 beyond that Moore doesn’t seem to want to use or trust the subs . Last night we have Burke who has been in oblivion thrust
 into the last 10 mins yet people like Sako who has premier league and big game experience left on bench . We are coming up to a busy period and some of our players are tiring after 60 minutes if he can’t give people 5 or 10 mins against Brentford what’s he going to do when he has got to give them 90 .

Mears was a Moore choice  of that there is no doubt .

Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2319 on: December 08, 2018, 10:00:39 AM »
Picked a team to dominate tonight, we definitely missed Mozza and HRK we but while the scores were level we were by far the better side... Dean Smith... another manager schooled by Big Darren Moore.

Schooled, by needing a 90th minute handball on our own patch and Abraham to miss the easiest chance you’ll ever see  ;D please never change, Jacko

Online Dexy

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2320 on: December 08, 2018, 10:14:27 AM »
I don't think things can be considered knee jerk when you have been watching it for 21 games.

Having to score 2/3 goals to get something out of a game is ridiculous.
The bloke hasn't had 30 games yet has he ? , he's a rookie thats taken over a mess of a club when you look at thr big picture . He's learning on the job and will make mistakes , thats not touching on the cost cutting thats gone on . In many ways he's over achieving , as I've said to you before there's plenty I don't agree with but he needs time .
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Online Dexy

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2321 on: December 08, 2018, 10:18:05 AM »
The problem we have is that we have our first 11 beyond that Moore doesn’t seem to want to use or trust the subs . Last night we have Burke who has been in oblivion thrust
 into the last 10 mins yet people like Sako who has premier league and big game experience left on bench . We are coming up to a busy period and some of our players are tiring after 60 minutes if he can’t give people 5 or 10 mins against Brentford what’s he going to do when he has got to give them 90 .

Mears was a Moore choice  of that there is no doubt .
I look at the bench and other than Brunt I don't see anybody who can change a game , Sako maybe if he gets fit.
I see Mears as a example of whats gone on , Nyom on good money shoved out and a cheap cover signing coming in.
If thats not cost cutting I don't know what is , I can only hope Dowling hits the floor running.
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Offline paulosull

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2322 on: December 08, 2018, 10:44:03 AM »
Schooled, by needing a 90th minute handball on our own patch and Abraham to miss the easiest chance you’ll ever see  ;D please never change, Jacko
jrod against Brentford was worse

Offline frazzle

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2323 on: December 08, 2018, 11:25:46 AM »
I look at the bench and other than Brunt I don't see anybody who can change a game , Sako maybe if he gets fit.
I see Mears as a example of whats gone on , Nyom on good money shoved out and a cheap cover signing coming in.
If thats not cost cutting I don't know what is , I can only hope Dowling hits the floor running.

A lot of people wanted anyone Nyom out though. I think he wanted to leave rather than being shoved out.

Online Dexy

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Re: Darren Moore
« Reply #2324 on: December 08, 2018, 12:52:03 PM »
A lot of people wanted anyone Nyom out though. I think he wanted to leave rather than being shoved out.
Either way I'd bet Mears is at least on 50% less wages than Nyom , cost cutting from above
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