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Offline frazzle

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2250 on: November 29, 2018, 06:24:18 AM »
Darren Moore deserves huge credit. Head coaches are stubborn, they don't change their minds as a rule but Darren did against Leeds and he's not backed away from the issue against Ipswich he picked the same again. We are all quick to criticise (and rightly at times) but lets be quick enough to heap praise when it's merited as well. Leeds was our best performance of the season and Ipswich was our best away performance of the season, all is grand at the moment. At this present moment in time he gets 10/10 for his management.

Graeme Jones stated that Leeds was a one off. I don't know what he meant by that but clearly either he didn't mean the system or Darren Moore has contradicted him. I don't know which but I don't care. What id does show is the words don't mean a thing it's actions that count and to be fair that's always been the case.

There are no youngsters from our academy making any impact. This I was critical of Darren for at the start of the season as this should've been the breakthrough season for Sam Field and to be overlooked in favour of Chris Brunt was wrong for me. However, judging by the fact that Rekeem Harper is getting the nod on the bench with us playing 4-3-3 it seems Darren doesn't see a place for Sam in that system at all, preferring the physicality of Harper instead, which I can understand. Field's progress has clearly stalled and you now have to seriously question his future at the club. None of other youngsters to be fair to Darren should be getting first team action although I would like to see Oliver Burke on the bench. His pace one on one with a full back may turn out to be one hell of a weapon.

Overall, excellent stuff from Darren Moore. Keep it up big man.

Or maybe that was all stage managed to trick Ipswich. I did question how seriously we should take any comments about formation made at fans forums or through the media as giving away your tactics is suicide.

Offline Oldbury24

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2251 on: November 29, 2018, 09:51:29 AM »
Nonsense? It’s only him finally bowing to fan and media pressure and going to 4 at the back that has turned it around for him, he persisted with the 5 at the back ‘nonsense’ for far too long despite it being clear it wasn’t working

The 5 at the back nonsense gave us some fantastic attacking football (I'm only a home ST holder admittedly, so don't see the away games in that detail) and a tremendous start to the season as we were shaky at the back but outscoring teams by some margin (highest scorers in any league at one point?).  It's very much the ying and yang...it's no coincidence that Harvey Barnes has been slightly less effective in this system, or that Dwight Gayle can be left on the bench as these are the players in the squad that really DID suit playing in a 3-5-2 and that's why we might see it again as at our best, once we were beating the first press, they were lethal running into open space.  Once teams worked us out it became obvious that the players did not have the abilities required to continue playing the formation with teams pressing higher and in greater numbers and it was changed.  I think we had three really poor games before the change was made?  In football management terms that's a pretty quick reaction compared to some who've been in charge.

If you saw the Swansea v Norwich highlights you will see that Potter is going through the same problem now at Swansea  - Norwich pressed really high and tore them apart -  although the expectation seems to be much lower there.

   
« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 09:55:49 AM by Oldbury24 »

Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2252 on: November 29, 2018, 10:01:12 AM »
The 5 at the back nonsense gave us some fantastic attacking football (I'm only a home ST holder admittedly, so don't see the away games in that detail) and a tremendous start to the season as we were shaky at the back but outscoring teams by some margin (highest scorers in any league at one point?).  It's very much the ying and yang...it's no coincidence that Harvey Barnes has been slightly less effective in this system, or that Dwight Gayle can be left on the bench as these are the players in the squad that really DID suit playing in a 3-5-2 and that's why we might see it again as at our best, once we were beating the first press, they were lethal running into open space.  Once teams worked us out it became obvious that the players did not have the abilities required to continue playing the formation with teams pressing higher and in greater numbers and it was changed.  I think we had three really poor games before the change was made?  In football management terms that's a pretty quick reaction compared to some who've been in charge.

If you saw the Swansea v Norwich highlights you will see that Potter is going through the same problem now at Swansea  - Norwich pressed really high and tore them apart -  although the expectation seems to be much lower there.

 

Swansea have a poor squad devoid of any quality, we have either the best or second best squad in the league and our performances prior to the Leeds game were absolutely horrendous. Three really poor games? Not sure what you were watching, but we were awful in nigh on every game this season prior to the switch and it was abundantly clear that against a team with any quality, we would get picked apart, we just happened to be fortunate that we have some supremely talented forward players at this level.

Online Albionic

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2253 on: November 29, 2018, 01:07:13 PM »
Swansea have a poor squad devoid of any quality, we have either the best or second best squad in the league and our performances prior to the Leeds game were absolutely horrendous. Three really poor games? Not sure what you were watching, but we were awful in nigh on every game this season prior to the switch and it was abundantly clear that against a team with any quality, we would get picked apart, we just happened to be fortunate that we have some supremely talented forward players at this level.

Jefferson Montero / Wilfeid Bony (who many wanted at B71)/ Martin Ollson (could have been at B71) / Leroy Fer (kept Mulumbu on bench at Norwich) / Tom carroll / Kyle Naughton  - If thats a poor squad devoid of quality, I'm a chinaman !

I normally agree with most of your contributions, but this one? - Nah!
Lovin the championship, just lovin it !

Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2254 on: November 29, 2018, 01:12:17 PM »
Swansea
25Mulder
17Carter-Vickers
5van der Hoorn
22Rodon
23Roberts
8Fer
21Grimes
3Olsson
10Celina
9McBurnie
20James

Honestly, that side, is awful.

Bony was done as a top level footballer 3 years ago.

Online Albionic

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2255 on: November 29, 2018, 01:15:45 PM »
Swansea
25Mulder
17Carter-Vickers
5van der Hoorn
22Rodon
23Roberts
8Fer
21Grimes
3Olsson
10Celina
9McBurnie
20James

Honestly, that side, is awful.

Bony was done as a top level footballer 3 years ago.

Being a pedant you started with a "squad" now you're talking about the "side" Potter picked.

Agree about Bony by the way, I was one of the people saying he was a busted flush (a la Lambert) 2/3 seasons ago.
Lovin the championship, just lovin it !

Offline Oldbury24

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2256 on: November 29, 2018, 01:32:34 PM »
Swansea have a poor squad devoid of any quality, we have either the best or second best squad in the league and our performances prior to the Leeds game were absolutely horrendous. Three really poor games? Not sure what you were watching, but we were awful in nigh on every game this season prior to the switch and it was abundantly clear that against a team with any quality, we would get picked apart, we just happened to be fortunate that we have some supremely talented forward players at this level.

Guess its all about perspective as to what awful actually is, but for the majority of this season I have been absolutely loving my days back down at the Hawthorns and seeing us try and implement the attaching 3-5-2.  It's been exhilarating at times and really got the blood pumping!!  My twelve year old has also been having a ball.  Yes we were incredibly shaky at the back (don't think I will every forget the sight of Hegazi doing a Cruyf turn on the edge of his own box) and lacking in midfield (which has been helped by the return of Mozza), and yes we rarely played consistently for 90 minutes but when it worked......

Awful to me immediately conjures up images of Gould, Buckley, Little and the Pardew and Pullis show last year when I just stopped caring until Darren Moore came along.  We may have been awful at times, but on the whole its been good fun to watch *

*at home.

Also saying that we just happened to be fortunate that we have some supremely talented forward players at this level seems a bit harsh.  We had obviously been tracking Barnes for a while and made the most of the opportunity that came along with Rafa wanting Rondon. Take away those two and our attack it made up of HRK and JRod which is hardly a wealth of goal scoring talent - so credit where credit etc.  If as a manger you find yourself with the aforesaid talented forwards then you will look for a formation to utilise their ability, which 3-5-2 undoubtedly did for those two (even if not for many others 😀)

« Last Edit: November 29, 2018, 01:56:59 PM by Oldbury24 »

Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2257 on: November 29, 2018, 01:59:06 PM »
Being a pedant you started with a "squad" now you're talking about the "side" Potter picked.

Agree about Bony by the way, I was one of the people saying he was a busted flush (a la Lambert) 2/3 seasons ago.

It's all good, I'm usually a massive pedant so I appreciate such things  ;D

I rate Gibbs higher than Olsson as a full back, Montero and Bony are in the same bracket as being spent as a force at the top level now, Naughton is a very limited full back in my eyes which is why no one came in for him. I am unsure about Fer, I did rate him back in the day, but he has hardly set the world alight at either QPR or Swansea. Carroll is a player I do rate in fairness, but he is about the only member of their squad I would want.

Offline seteefeet

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2258 on: November 29, 2018, 03:02:32 PM »
Still really happy with the job Mooro is doing and  chuffed that he made the changes he did to halt the slide, albeit a bit later than I would have liked. Many managers would have stubbornly blundered on with the same formation, hoping for a bit of luck, but Darren took positive action and it paid off with 3 wins on the bounce. Another tick for me.
To say that he only acted due to fan and media pressure is ludicrous. It's not as if the fans are on his back (not on match days anyway) and I've not seen anything in the press questioning the 352.
Ok, we haven't played well in a lot of games but we're still 4th and rising.
Keep up the good work Darren  (Although maybe make your subs a bit sooner) ;)

Offline paulosull

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2259 on: December 03, 2018, 10:14:59 PM »
Still have my doubts about him, disappointed that he hasn't given youngsters a chance, game management is awful and in last two games lack of substitions is baffling

Offline Adder

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2260 on: December 03, 2018, 10:21:56 PM »
I have to question the lack of variety on the bench. Playing a team currently struggling and short of confidence we only had one genuine attacker (Gayle) on the bench, 4 midfielders and Mears. What's the point of 4 midfielders and Mears ?
If ever there was a game to give Leko or Edwards...or Burke 25 minutes to freshen it up it was this one.

Offline GREGMT

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2261 on: December 03, 2018, 10:35:29 PM »
You have to question why Hoolahan, Brunt, Barry, Sako, Burke are still at the club?

Brunt - found wanting in CM and inferior to Morrison.  Has abour 10 starts under his belt.

The Other 4 - virtually no contribution all season.

Time to be ruthless in January.

Offline paulosull

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2262 on: December 03, 2018, 10:42:37 PM »
You have to question why Hoolahan, Brunt, Barry, Sako, Burke are still at the club?

Brunt - found wanting in CM and inferior to Morrison.  Has abour 10 starts under his belt.

The Other 4 - virtually no contribution all season.

Time to be ruthless in January.
some idiot gave them contracts

Offline tlms-p23

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2263 on: December 03, 2018, 11:03:31 PM »
@mattwilson_star

Asked Moore if he regretted not adding fresh legs at the end. "Not really," he said. "Because we were dominant in the game. When your back's against the wall you look to change it up. Because of the performance, I thought they were alright." Said he didn't see their goal coming.


Dave, mate, get real. The midfield were sh@gged after 80mins. Haven't used subs well in either of the last 2 games (haven't for much of the season). If Brunt and Barry are on the pitch for the final 10 mins I am convinced we win that game 1-0.

Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2264 on: December 03, 2018, 11:04:30 PM »
@mattwilson_star

Asked Moore if he regretted not adding fresh legs at the end. "Not really," he said. "Because we were dominant in the game. When your back's against the wall you look to change it up. Because of the performance, I thought they were alright." Said he didn't see their goal coming.


Dave, mate, get real. The midfield were sh@gged after 80mins. Haven't used subs well in either of the last 2 games (haven't for much of the season). If Brunt and Barry are on the pitch for the final 10 mins I am convinced we win that game 1-0.

 :o

He has not got a clue. That is genuinely frightening.

Offline CL3MO

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2265 on: December 03, 2018, 11:13:43 PM »
:o

He has not got a clue. That is genuinely frightening.

I was thinking the exact same thing. I’ve scanned the forum tonight and the number of people who said Morrison HAD to go off after we scored tells it’s oem story. Sometimes management is simple - every fan in the ground could see the change needed to happen.

Lessons needed to be learnt. Quickly.

Offline Atomic

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2266 on: December 03, 2018, 11:16:11 PM »
I think he should've rested Mozza either tonight or at Swansea and I think he should've changed things at 1-0 tonight.

Not going to murder the guy. Made a couple of errors here though I think.

Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2267 on: December 03, 2018, 11:25:51 PM »
I think he should've rested Mozza either tonight or at Swansea and I think he should've changed things at 1-0 tonight.

Not going to murder the guy. Made a couple of errors here though I think.

How far with we go with these errors though? Persisting with 5 at the back for 15 games, persisting with Brunt in midfield, persisting with Bartley until injury made him unavailable selection, refusal to use his bench to impact the course of a game.

So, so many errors

Offline Oldbury24

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2268 on: December 03, 2018, 11:30:18 PM »
Im a Darren Moore fan and the performance he got out of the team first 45 was outstanding we could have been six up.  We could even have scored two or three second half.   However, lets hope he watches the game again and asesses what he could have done different to close that game out.   We sat back and invited pressure from a team we had been bossing...we had less than ten minutes to defend and couldn't do it once they applied pressure.  Becomming a real achilles heal.

Offline paulosull

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2269 on: December 03, 2018, 11:41:38 PM »
Think we will get into play offs in spite of him if I can be brutally honest. Making to many mistakes for my liking and worryingly takes to long to learn from them, can see us going on another losing run due to lack of using squad, which has really surprised me to be honest.

Offline Mo

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2270 on: December 04, 2018, 07:18:32 AM »
Moore would argue that Brentford should have been out of sight.

However as a coach he has to deal with things in the present moment it was obvious to everyone in the stadium we had dropped off and even more so that we had a couple of players running on fumes .He didn’t react and this is an ongoing concern. Not only would a sub have given us fresh legs but it would also have broken the game up .

Moore didn’t even have the subs warming up and that tells its own story.

Offline skyclad99

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2271 on: December 04, 2018, 07:34:42 AM »
Funny thing is that we would not be having this conversation if we had won last night......
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Offline NathWBA

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2272 on: December 04, 2018, 07:58:18 AM »
Funny thing is that we would not be having this conversation if we had won last night......
you can say that about literally anything, if’s and buts are irrelevant, the fact is we didn’t win, if if we had won his failings are there to be discussed. virtually the whole ground could see Morrison was shattered and needed to come off, we were crying out for fresh legs in the latter stages. I really want Moore to succeed but he needs to start learning from the mistakes fast, we can’t afford him the time to learn if we want to go up.
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Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2273 on: December 04, 2018, 09:09:46 AM »
Funny thing is that we would not be having this conversation if we had won last night......

I'd certainly have raised the issue, not sure about anyone else. It was crying out for fresh legs

Offline mulliganstired

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2274 on: December 04, 2018, 09:17:10 AM »
Funny thing is that we would not be having this conversation if we had won last night......
I think we would, because we have before.  I only get to watch on streams or highlights, so I'm happy to be corrected by those who pick up these things at the ground, but he doesn't seem to be keen on the players making tactical decisions on the pitch as games develop, or on using subs much.  He will be done by other managers if they realise this - the Brentford bloke, who's name I can't even remember, looked like a frightened rabbit most of the game, waved them forward, brought on a guy who scored, and we didn't do anything at all as they started to work the gaps except retreat gradually till the CHs were on the 18 yard line, asking for it.  Even if we'd got away with it, Dean Smith wouldn't have needed a notebook to write anything down, it was so clear.  Another thing you can't get off the telly, what's the Jones/Moore dynamic look like in real life?  Were they talking much?