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Offline paulosull

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #75 on: August 09, 2018, 06:33:20 PM »
Hasn't helped Darren one bit in giving him the backing and finance's to bring in player's, 14 million of outlay compared to 14.5 million of in comings. Short sighted per usual with one of JPs cronies.

Offline WBAinDEVON

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #76 on: August 09, 2018, 06:36:47 PM »
back into the wilderness, at least the kids had a taste of top flight football for a while
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Offline Mr Cynical

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2018, 11:25:59 AM »
Failed to live up to his own words and failed to support his choice for Head Coach.

Offline Albion79

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2018, 11:56:13 AM »
Some of the things i have read about Jenkins i dont like if true - making staff pay for tickets, etc (should be a perk of the job)

However looking at this with my fans view removed, the fact remains by getting relegated we lost half our income this season alone, if we dont go up the next two seasons that gets reduced more, somewhere or somehow unless you gamble (ie - Dr Xia) your outgoings have to align with your incomings.

Although the players on are on flex down contracts, most of this squad will still be on £20k - £30k a week, that is a lot of money for this level. Jenkins said we would have a strong budget, as far as i can see any money raised from sales has gone straight back into the team and i would hope we will still be signing another player or two on loan.

Lai isnt a fan, he is a businessman, he will be looking he forked £150m and within two seasons the club he brought is now worth half of what it was, as a businessman i would be a bit miffed at losing £50m - £100m in value and i wouldnt be throwing loads more money at it, i would be sensible with the approach.

We havent made a big money sale this summer, we didnt sell a Dawson, Hegazi, JRod, Chadli (yet) our only incomings were £4m for Foster and £3.5m for Evans, two of our better players going for little money and £6m for Mclean.

Swansea sold Mawson for £15m, Clucas £8m, Fabianski £8m, plus a load of others around the £4-5m mark. Stoke sold Shaqiri for £13m, Sobhi £7m, Munier £5m, plus others, Both those clubs have generated a lot more in sales than we did.

We may of been able to get a big fee for some of our players but by all accounts it was Big Daves decision he wanted to keep most of the squad so on that basis it falls on him, our summer dealing suggest that any funds raised were given back to the manager to spend, so he was backed, if he wanted an extra £15m he could of sold somebody, if it turns out that wasnt the case then Jenkins and Lai have a lot to answer too.

I would also be looking at that we spent £13m on Chadli and similar on Burke, £26m for two blokes who as of yet hardly play for us, yet still earn very good money, none of this is Big Daves fault but as a business when things go wrong you have to cut your cloth accordingly.

Half our income from last season, very small funds (in football terms) generated from player sales, and we lost £40m over two seasons and ended up using an overdraft, (which if i was Jenkins i would be doing a lot of digging deeper to find out what happened there and looking to make people accountable for it) but as a CEO / owner i would be cautious right now too.

Lets be fair, this squad although maybe a bit inbalanced with the addition of a right back and centre midfielder (which we still have time to get) should be very very competitive in this league.

As a fan i would love us to go a bit crazy but if we gambled and got into a mess (ie - Villa) we as fans would be the first to go mad, nobody knew what a mess Villa were in til it was nearly too late.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 12:05:09 PM by Albion79 »

Offline Mr Cynical

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2018, 12:19:16 PM »
From Jenkins perspective... what was the point of selling the big names?
- If you sell them and don't spend the money you have to share it with the tax man.
- If you sell them and do spend the money then you've used a lot of money to attract non-PL players, spent a lot on loyalty bonuses, signing on fees and agent fees, committed a lot of money to future wages on new contracts.

More financially sensible to limit sales (this summer) with a view to get promoted at the first attempt.  Still think there are gaps in the squad that need to be addressed.

Half our income from last season, very small funds (in football terms) generated from player sales, and we lost £40m over two seasons and ended up using an overdraft, (which if i was Jenkins i would be doing a lot of digging deeper to find out what happened there and looking to make people accountable for it) but as a CEO / owner i would be cautious right now too.

Not sure we lost £40m?  We had made a profit of £40m, paid £8m in tax (!!!) and invested £32m in players.  However, due to poor choices of Chairman, CEO, DoF and Head Coach we may have invested in the wrong players (and also failed to sell our valuale assets at the right time).

Offline Baggies

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #80 on: August 10, 2018, 12:23:58 PM »
I don't particularly mind us not spending huge, but I didn't like the rubbish he came out with about us having a strong budget and mentioning the fact we didnt need to sell players. We literally spent what we generated from sales and then relied on the loan market - he was not telling us the whole truth when he made his statements to sell season tickets and I feel he knew that was the case (maybe he hoped we would get a big offer for Rondon or Chadli).

My real issue with him though is that he has been here for over half a year and yet the poor decisions we were making before are still being made now. Where is the replacement for Hammond? Where is the longer term planning? Why did he not do more in his last few years of his 1st spell at the club instead of allowing Pulis to strip out our scouting structure?

I don't believe Jenkins has it in him to rebuild this club. He is a glorified accountant for me.
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Offline hardtobeat

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #81 on: August 10, 2018, 12:26:52 PM »
needs to address off field issues which in turn may help on field. An experienced DoF would certainly help as we have little footballing experience/knowledge in the suits. Strange IMO how we have a Director of Communication allegedly a professional in his field (though we havent heard much from him recently) but no Director of Football charged with expertise in that role !!!????
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Offline Albion79

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #82 on: August 10, 2018, 12:36:31 PM »
Apologies, but i meant when Jenkins first came back, he said when he left the club there was £40m in the bank and that when he came back we were going to have to have an overdraft. If i was him i would be asking a lot of questions where that £40m has gone in two years!

Now the transfer window is out the way, i would hope as others have said there is going to be a structure put in place - DOF, long term vision, i have no idea if Jenkins is the right man to do that, we did seem to become a stable club when he was incharge before but i dont know if decisions such as Ashworth, scouting structure, etc were anything to do with him or others.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2018, 12:38:06 PM by Albion79 »

Offline Albionic

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #83 on: August 10, 2018, 12:36:55 PM »
needs to address off field issues which in turn may help on field. An experienced DoF would certainly help as we have little footballing experience/knowledge in the suits. Strange IMO how we have a Director of Communication allegedly a professional in his field (though we havent heard much from him recently) but no Director of Football charged with expertise in that role !!!????

yes, a mute director of comms is a strange fish isn't it !

Perhaps he is signing to the others to keep shtum

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Offline Mr Cynical

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #84 on: August 10, 2018, 01:10:19 PM »
Apologies, but i meant when Jenkins first came back, he said when he left the club there was £40m in the bank and that when he came back we were going to have to have an overdraft. If i was him i would be asking a lot of questions where that £40m has gone in two years!

You could say that the £40m was there in order to make the sale of the club more attractive.  £40m cash in the bank would definitely be seen as positive in the due diligence.  In reality most of that £40m should have been spent on players - rather than paying £8m tax.

So the £40m has been spent on tax plus Chadli, Burke, Jrod and a load of other players (Gibbs, Nyom, Hegazi) that remain assets on the accounts.   (Hammond has already lost his job (in relation to Burke and Pardew) as have Pulis, Goldman and Williams - so those that spent the £40m have gone.

I think that this £40m, and how it was utilised is plain for Jenkins to see.  It is just a useful, and handy, story for Jenkins to tell in order to justify the austerity he is imposing. 

Offline WorcsWBA

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #85 on: August 10, 2018, 01:26:56 PM »
I would also be looking at that we spent £13m on Chadli and similar on Burke, £26m for two blokes who as of yet hardly play for us, yet still earn very good money, none of this is Big Daves fault but as a business when things go wrong you have to cut your cloth accordingly.
There's a decision to be made about Burke. His value's only going to decrease if he just gets 10 minutes or less in games, so we ought to find a way to play him more or cut out losses with him. We can't afford to have a £15m player just kicking his heels.

As far as Jenkins is concerned, he doesn't strike me as a visionary and it's someone with vision who we need to be steering the ship and bringing the right new recruits into the "football department". Given our complete lack of football people on the board, who's going to drive this recruitment and what experience can they bring to bear? Will it be Terraneo - is he even still at the club since being sidelined a couple of months ago?

Offline SmethDan

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #86 on: August 10, 2018, 02:12:25 PM »
You could say that the £40m was there in order to make the sale of the club more attractive.  £40m cash in the bank would definitely be seen as positive in the due diligence.  In reality most of that £40m should have been spent on players - rather than paying £8m tax.

So the £40m has been spent on tax plus Chadli, Burke, Jrod and a load of other players (Gibbs, Nyom, Hegazi) that remain assets on the accounts.   (Hammond has already lost his job (in relation to Burke and Pardew) as have Pulis, Goldman and Williams - so those that spent the £40m have gone.

I think that this £40m, and how it was utilised is plain for Jenkins to see.  It is just a useful, and handy, story for Jenkins to tell in order to justify the austerity he is imposing.

It's also worth remembering that we didn't actually spend £40,000,000 in one go as we pay transfer fees in instalments.

While all part of the same bank account, wages and insurance etc come from working capital (TV etc).

In truth the much famed profit sheet is a bit of a myth as on going costs are absorbed.

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Offline overseas baggie

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #87 on: August 10, 2018, 02:27:56 PM »
It's also worth remembering that we didn't actually spend £40,000,000 in one go as we pay transfer fees in instalments.

While all part of the same bank account, wages and insurance etc come from working capital (TV etc).

In truth the much famed profit sheet is a bit of a myth as on going costs are absorbed.

Wordage is everything.

Re paying in instalments, yes you are correct but it also means that we are still being instalments on previous seasons’ purchases!

Offline paulosull

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #88 on: August 10, 2018, 02:56:12 PM »
Bloke was brought back to implement the JP model of running football club but he wasn't the one that made it a so called success, bloke down at St George's was. All Jenkins will do is tighten purse strings even more, we have got no football men at club and no real scouting system of note and for me no one seems to trust any of the kids. I only hope that Jones can step up and push Darren in right direction.

Offline SmethDan

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #89 on: August 10, 2018, 03:05:06 PM »
Re paying in instalments, yes you are correct but it also means that we are still being instalments on previous seasons’ purchases!

Yes, that hadn't passed me by  ;) .

I also know the '£40,000,000 in the bank, had it but it's all gone now' was a good use of wordage given the fluid nature of football finance.

Thanks again, I hope you enjoy the rest of your day  ;D .
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Offline MarkW

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #90 on: August 30, 2018, 03:13:16 PM »
Spell his name properly and don't use childish insults, or have your post removed.

Very simple
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Offline hardtobeat

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #91 on: August 30, 2018, 04:06:10 PM »
Jenkins could have been a politician with the number of tall tales he tells. He knew , we suspected and have since  found out the club had little or no intention of funding a promotion challenge and it was back to doing everything on the cheap .His pre window claims of doing deals earlier have turned out to be just more hot air form an experienced headman's windbag. Talk a good game Increase monies coming in via season tkt sales, sit on money do nothing , utter apologies if and when confronted about policy and repeat . !!!!!!
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Online leeiswba

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #92 on: August 30, 2018, 05:02:01 PM »
Jenkins could have been a politician with the number of tall tales he tells. He knew , we suspected and have since  found out the club had little or no intention of funding a promotion challenge and it was back to doing everything on the cheap .His pre window claims of doing deals earlier have turned out to be just more hot air form an experienced headman's windbag. Talk a good game Increase monies coming in via season tkt sales, sit on money do nothing , utter apologies if and when confronted about policy and repeat . !!!!!!

Do you not believe that this group are good enough for promotion. Anything less than top 6 with the squad I think it would be a dissapointment.

I think the board and coaching staff will think the same as well.

Offline tylerm

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #93 on: August 30, 2018, 05:04:34 PM »
Jenkins could have been a politician with the number of tall tales he tells. He knew , we suspected and have since  found out the club had little or no intention of funding a promotion challenge and it was back to doing everything on the cheap .His pre window claims of doing deals earlier have turned out to be just more hot air form an experienced headman's windbag. Talk a good game Increase monies coming in via season tkt sales, sit on money do nothing , utter apologies if and when confronted about policy and repeat . !!!!!!

Partially agree with you but I thin the strategy was to sell a few of Chadli, Rondon, Dawson, JRod and Hegazi. Unfortunately no one wanted to buy them so that left the strategy in tatters.

Offline hardtobeat

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #94 on: August 30, 2018, 05:11:33 PM »
Do you not believe that this group are good enough for promotion. Anything less than top 6 with the squad I think it would be a dissapointment.

I think the board and coaching staff will think the same as well.
Don't think they are anywhere close to top 6 would be surprised with top 10! . The spine of the side is not good enough. We were comfortably outplayed by both Boro and Forest and there are in my opinion better sides than those two.. 
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Offline hardtobeat

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #95 on: August 30, 2018, 05:16:18 PM »
Tylerm ,Rondon has gone ,Chadli looks to be going, offers for Rodriguez and Dawson were made so I have doubts as to whether that was really their intention
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Offline tylerm

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #96 on: August 30, 2018, 06:27:38 PM »
Tylerm ,Rondon has gone ,Chadli looks to be going, offers for Rodriguez and Dawson were made so I have doubts as to whether that was really their intention

Rondon has gone on loan only and acceptable bids weren’t made for the others. I still believe the plan was to sell a couple and use that money

Offline Mo

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #97 on: August 30, 2018, 06:46:45 PM »
Could be lai hasn’t yet paid all of the monies owed for his purchase  and as such Jenkins  is in there to recover the situation . It is the only logical reason I can see for Jenkins coming back . He’s a money man.

Offline johnny Cash

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #98 on: August 30, 2018, 06:50:07 PM »
Jenkins could have been a politician with the number of tall tales he tells. He knew , we suspected and have since  found out the club had little or no intention of funding a promotion challenge and it was back to doing everything on the cheap .His pre window claims of doing deals earlier have turned out to be just more hot air form an experienced headman's windbag. Talk a good game Increase monies coming in via season tkt sales, sit on money do nothing , utter apologies if and when confronted about policy and repeat . !!!!!!

Do you really think many brought season tickets of the back of his comments?

Our season ticket sales over the past few years has only changed by about 10% I think. Suggests most of those sales are quite loyal ands its a sticky customer base.

I think we expected more players to be sold, and it simply hasn't happened. He probably should have spoken about getting business done early though.
 
Anyone expecting us to have a positive net spend either doesn't understand we have lost £60m, or had dreams of some investment from the owner, which has never happened, and has never been suggested is forthcoming.

Offline Baggies

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Re: Jenkins
« Reply #99 on: August 30, 2018, 07:17:30 PM »
I think Jenkins did have season ticket sales in mind Johnny, with the timing of what he said and the risk of fans packing up after 8 years in the top flight.

I could have accepted him saying we need to be sensible and we need to consider the books, but instesd he csme out with talk of substantial budgets for this level, while instead we have made a profit.

Now making a profit in the window is not always a bad thing for a club our size - Southampton under Cortese made a regular profit while being one of the best run clubs around. The problem is when you put out messaging that suggests you are going to realpy go for it, when really you are hiding behind ambigous language. It is disrespectful towards the fan base. Honesty goes a long way.
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