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Offline TheBrom

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Re: VAR
« Reply #50 on: January 28, 2018, 04:19:45 PM »
The main gripe I've got with it is that those at the game don't have any idea of what's being looked at. I think the fact they don't want to show it on the big screens in case it's controversial sums up the confidence that must be held by those in charge of the system. Even on the TV it's difficult to understand why things have been given or not given, hiding the VAR person away and not having them talk through their decision seems to add to the controversy to me.

Again it's also inconsistent just like the normal referees anyway. Salah gets a penalty for a slight tug up one end, and their keeper goes unpunished for a blatant push on Barry, where we actually end up with the goal disallowed!

As someone else mentioned, whilst it got decisions correct, I feel it was used incorrectly last night. The officials seemed to be looking for any excuse to use it rather than making calls for themselves and being agreed with/corrected by it.

I've likened it to the system they use in American Football before, where they had to change some of their rules to make them more black and white in terms of what is an offence. Unfortunately there are too many instances of grey-area decisions to make in football for VAR to work properly as it does in other sports, unless the rules are modified to more black and white versions.

Offline Foster#1

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Re: VAR
« Reply #51 on: January 28, 2018, 04:31:52 PM »
Absolute **** up by the ref and linesman denying city a goal at Cardiff. No var at the game . If there was the goal would of been given

Cracking goal too

Offline mulliganstired

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Re: VAR
« Reply #52 on: January 28, 2018, 04:51:33 PM »
they're obviously misusing it, if it had been looking at the back of the stands it might have caught the sniper who picked off Salah

Offline VVVAlbion

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Re: VAR
« Reply #53 on: January 28, 2018, 04:57:00 PM »
VAR will get better but for me was badly used last night and favoured Liverpool. By the letter of the law Salah was fouled in the box (despite not being anywhere near the ball and making an exhibition out of it) as was Barry before he was deemed offside (which I'm not convinced of.. clear and obvious?).
Early days and nearly spoiled the game and definately took a lot away from the performance and result.
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Offline seteefeet

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Re: VAR
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2018, 04:57:47 PM »
Happy to crack on without it. Got decisions right, eventually, probably, but still!l too much contention.
Bring it back when its fit for purpose and is more transparent.

Offline KYA

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Re: VAR
« Reply #55 on: January 28, 2018, 06:14:44 PM »
Sorry this is utter nonsense. Under VAR goals that are offside will not be allowed and penalty decisions will be reviewed which will cut out a lot of the diving. Not sure how you seriously think that helps the top six. What it does do is result in more of a level playing field. So quite the opposite.
I agree with mo, most of us are of the opinion that refs favour the big clubs , they are the ones who seem to get the soft penaltys etc  how would a ref off the pitch make it a level playing field?
 

Offline baggie82

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Re: VAR
« Reply #56 on: January 28, 2018, 07:14:59 PM »
I agree with mo, most of us are of the opinion that refs favour the big clubs , they are the ones who seem to get the soft penaltys etc  how would a ref off the pitch make it a level playing field?

Remember when Gary Neville took Dorrans out when he was 1-1 at the Hawthorns in 2011? The ref Chris Foy bottled an obvious decision to award a penalty and send the player off. With VAR that could not happen. It would go upstairs and the correct decision would then be applied.

Remember when Ramires dived in injury time at Stamford Bridge in 2013 and Andre Marriner was gullible enough to give a penalty? Mike Riley then apologised. Well with VAR that would go upstairs, obvious dive on the replay, Ramires would be booked and no penalty and we would win.

Do you think Hazard and other players at the top six clubs who are prone to throwing themselves to the ground are going to get away with as much with VAR in place?

Offline adamw1109

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Re: VAR
« Reply #57 on: January 28, 2018, 07:46:59 PM »
The only people that should be allowed to appeal should be captains only, when 22 players and their managers are getting involved it's too much pressure on any referee and a complete shambles.

VAR should only be used if a referee feels like he isn't 100%... for players to be able to appeal at every single chance because they have conceded or fell over is ridiculous.... and if a referee misses it constantly he should be made to prove he is capable at the level he is involved in.

The standard of the officials recently have been very very poor... they really should address that before giving them even more responsibility.... especially for Liverpool's penalty last night, salah had his shirt 'tugged' yet his legs went like he was hit in the back of them with a baseball bat.

Give it a couple of more season's and there will be no contact at all allowed when tackling.


Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: VAR
« Reply #58 on: January 28, 2018, 07:49:54 PM »
The only people that should be allowed to appeal should be captains only, when 22 players and their managers are getting involved it's too much pressure on any referee and a complete shambles.

VAR should only be used if a referee feels like he isn't 100%... for players to be able to appeal at every single chance because they have conceded or fell over is ridiculous.... and if a referee misses it constantly he should be made to prove he is capable at the level he is involved in.

The standard of the officials recently have been very very poor... they really should address that before giving them even more responsibility.... especially for Liverpool's penalty last night, salah had his shirt 'tugged' yet his legs went like he was hit in the back of them with a baseball bat.

Give it a couple of more season's and there will be no contact at all allowed when tackling.


Shirt pulling isn't tackling and I hope VAR eradicates it. Now the dust has settled it was clearly a foul. Soft but stupid from the abject Livermore.
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Offline KYA

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Re: VAR
« Reply #59 on: January 28, 2018, 07:54:41 PM »
Sorry the decisions were right. The way that they were implemented was clunky. The authorities want the ref on the field to be the final arbitrator but the VAR alerts the ref to incidents that he might have missed. The VAR ref has a better chance of seeing something it is crazy to pretend otherwise. For the ref to go to the side of the pitch to review the video adds nothing but obviously prolongs the process.
You have a point but call me a cynic yes those blatant decisions may well go our way but the two for Liverpool last night were hairline decisions which if  happened the other way around and favoured the smaller clubs i doubt would be picked up and really such decisions should be down to the ref it is the blatant mistakes by refs that this system should be used for otherwise it will become a joke.
This should be a reply to 82 a human error!.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 07:57:11 PM by KYA »

Offline zippyandbungle

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Re: VAR
« Reply #60 on: January 28, 2018, 08:14:16 PM »
Remember when Gary Neville took Dorrans out when he was 1-1 at the Hawthorns in 2011? The ref Chris Foy bottled an obvious decision to award a penalty and send the player off. With VAR that could not happen. It would go upstairs and the correct decision would then be applied.

Remember when Ramires dived in injury time at Stamford Bridge in 2013 and Andre Marriner was gullible enough to give a penalty? Mike Riley then apologised. Well with VAR that would go upstairs, obvious dive on the replay, Ramires would be booked and no penalty and we would win.

Do you think Hazard and other players at the top six clubs who are prone to throwing themselves to the ground are going to get away with as much with VAR in place?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but going to the VAR is up to the ref?
If youre going to get told off, get told off for doing something not for doing nothing..

Offline Mo

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Re: VAR
« Reply #61 on: January 28, 2018, 08:40:02 PM »
Sorry this is utter nonsense. Under VAR goals that are offside will not be allowed and penalty decisions will be reviewed which will cut out a lot of the diving. Not sure how you seriously think that helps the top six. What it does do is result in more of a level playing field. So quite the opposite.

Because as I said they will intimidate the referee by however they choose , if one of ours went down in their penalty area like Salah did in ours I do not for one second think VAR would have been called .

Offline baggie82

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Re: VAR
« Reply #62 on: January 28, 2018, 08:43:06 PM »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but going to the VAR is up to the ref?

No. That would be pointless.

The VAR ref is always watching the game and replays. When a key incident happens, a penalty decision for example he reviews and if he thinks the ref on the field has made a mistake he tells him. The ref on the field then reviews the video himself and decides if the decision is to be changed or not.

So when a ref gives a penalty for a blatant dive or fails to give a penalty for a clear foul then with VAR the decision is always going to be overturned. It was pretty obvious to me last night that Liverpool were going to get a penalty as soon as I saw Livermore pull Salah's shoulder. My only surprise was the delay before the ref was told he needed to review the TV monitor himself.

Conversely with offsides the VAR ref checks and tells the ref the decision as no need for the on pitch ref to review.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 08:45:21 PM by baggie82 »

Offline caravanc58

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Re: VAR
« Reply #63 on: January 28, 2018, 09:06:28 PM »
No. That would be pointless.

The VAR ref is always watching the game and replays. When a key incident happens, a penalty decision for example he reviews and if he thinks the ref on the field has made a mistake he tells him. The ref on the field then reviews the video himself and decides if the decision is to be changed or not.

So when a ref gives a penalty for a blatant dive or fails to give a penalty for a clear foul then with VAR the decision is always going to be overturned.
It was pretty obvious to me last night that Liverpool were going to get a penalty as soon as I saw Livermore pull Salah's shoulder. My only surprise was the delay before the ref was told he needed to review the TV monitor himself.

Conversely with offsides the VAR ref checks and tells the ref the decision as no need for the on pitch ref to review.
VAR cannot be called on if play has restarted so all decisions will need to be made quickly.
FA Rules.

The referee may only change a decision on realising that it is incorrect or on the advice of another match official, provided play has not restarted or the referee has signalled the end of the first or second half (including extra time) and left the field of play or terminated the match.

Offline hardtobeat

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Re: VAR
« Reply #64 on: January 28, 2018, 09:26:44 PM »
with or without VAR one thing that has to happen is the on field refs need to improve drastically, Mason and his team were very poor today
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Offline baggie82

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Re: VAR
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2018, 09:29:39 PM »
VAR cannot be called on if play has restarted so all decisions will need to be made quickly.
FA Rules.

The referee may only change a decision on realising that it is incorrect or on the advice of another match official, provided play has not restarted or the referee has signalled the end of the first or second half (including extra time) and left the field of play or terminated the match.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make? Correct VAR is dealt with before the play restarts. Which is why the ref on the field often holds up play whilst the VAR ref is reviewing footage and discussing an incident with him. The VAR system is used week in and week out in Seria A to very good effect. The responses on here to VAR getting three decisions all correct is hysterical.

Offline east-stand-nick

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Re: VAR
« Reply #66 on: January 28, 2018, 10:27:06 PM »
It needs tweaks, but the Pawson was overusing it yesterday. There was really no need to use it when Brunt was clearly 10 yards offside. Might as well just bin the ref completely if that's going to be happening every week.

Offline Baggie50

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Re: VAR
« Reply #67 on: January 28, 2018, 10:45:01 PM »
MOTD analysis following the parallel universe non-VAR Liverpool v WBA cup tie

Gary: So a 4-2 win for West Brom, but you'd have to say Dion that the major decisions all went the way of the baggies.

Dion: Well that's right Gary. Albion's 2nd goal shouldn't have stood and within a minute Liverpool were denied a clear penalty. 1-3, but it should have been 2-2 and then it would have been a different game.

Gary: Did Liverpool react in the right way, Danny?

Danny: I can't believe how unlucky Liverpool were tonight. Even West Brom's injuries favoured them. I feel sorry for Jurgen Klopp. He should rightfully been celebrating a spot in the fifth round. They were actually my favourites to win the competition.

Gary: I suppose it's possible Firminho might have missed the penalty and West Brom would have gone on to win anyway?

Danny: Don't talk bow locks Gary

Offline tylerm

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Re: VAR
« Reply #68 on: January 28, 2018, 10:46:45 PM »
It needs tweaks, but the Pawson was overusing it yesterday. There was really no need to use it when Brunt was clearly 10 yards offside. Might as well just bin the ref completely if that's going to be happening every week.

Agreed,or when Dawson put one in the net and all of our players except Foster were offside

Offline adamw1109

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Re: VAR
« Reply #69 on: January 28, 2018, 11:52:34 PM »

Shirt pulling isn't tackling and I hope VAR eradicates it. Now the dust has settled it was clearly a foul. Soft but stupid from the abject Livermore.

But salah clearly dived.... that's what needs stamping out... my point is if you walk past someone and pull their shirt... they are not going to drop like they've been taken out by the American sniper.

Regardless if play was interrupted or not... a 'dive' is still a dive and needs stamping out of the game.

If VAR is going to be used, it should be used correctly, effectively and quick enough so it doesn't kill the pace of the game every 10 minutes.

Offline Aixelsyd

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Re: VAR
« Reply #70 on: January 29, 2018, 12:03:45 AM »
But salah clearly dived.... that's what needs stamping out... my point is if you walk past someone and pull their shirt... they are not going to drop like they've been taken out by the American sniper.

Regardless if play was interrupted or not... a 'dive' is still a dive and needs stamping out of the game.

Then the rules need to be changed... adding that a player must be always "trying to stay on their feet"
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Offline adamw1109

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Re: VAR
« Reply #71 on: January 29, 2018, 10:24:29 AM »
Then the rules need to be changed... adding that a player must be always "trying to stay on their feet"

Not really.

If it's a tackle and he dives then it can be up for debate.... but for him to go down in the way he did after a soft tug of his shirt/arm... which was then watched over and over again... clearly shows salahs intention was to dive.

The rules are the rules but the way grown men are falling to the ground is pathetic.

Offline Regis Rocket

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Re: VAR
« Reply #72 on: January 29, 2018, 10:44:10 AM »
MOTD analysis following the parallel universe non-VAR Liverpool v WBA cup tie

Gary: So a 4-2 win for West Brom, but you'd have to say Dion that the major decisions all went the way of the baggies.

Dion: Well that's right Gary. Albion's 2nd goal shouldn't have stood and within a minute Liverpool were denied a clear penalty. 1-3, but it should have been 2-2 and then it would have been a different game.

Gary: Did Liverpool react in the right way, Danny?

Brilliant, this is so funny  ;D....but could of also so easily have been the case or similar :o
Danny: I can't believe how unlucky Liverpool were tonight. Even West Brom's injuries favoured them. I feel sorry for Jurgen Klopp. He should rightfully been celebrating a spot in the fifth round. They were actually my favourites to win the competition.

Gary: I suppose it's possible Firminho might have missed the penalty and West Brom would have gone on to win anyway?

Danny: Don't talk bow locks Gary

Brilliant, this is so funny  ;D....but could of so easily been the case or similar  :o
« Last Edit: January 29, 2018, 10:46:04 AM by Regis Rocket »
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Offline boinging_along

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Re: VAR
« Reply #73 on: January 29, 2018, 11:13:37 AM »
The problem is, as we saw against Liverpool, all this does is encourage players to throw themselves to the ground theatrically under the slightest contact.  Why not when it's something like that that will attract the VAR official's eye?

Most 'dives' you see aren't ones where there's no contact at all, it's where there's the slightest touch but someone uses it to fling themselves to the ground.  I'd expect the number of these will increase now.

Offline Atomic

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Re: VAR
« Reply #74 on: January 29, 2018, 11:21:22 AM »
The problem is, as we saw against Liverpool, all this does is encourage players to throw themselves to the ground theatrically under the slightest contact.  Why not when it's something like that that will attract the VAR official's eye?

Most 'dives' you see aren't ones where there's no contact at all, it's where there's the slightest touch but someone uses it to fling themselves to the ground. I'd expect the number of these will increase now.


Yes and you get the pundits spouting absolute rubbish that when running at top speed the lightest touch can bring you down.

The slightest touch never brought Cyrille down.