Author Topic: VAR  (Read 17106 times)

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tuamigos

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VAR
« on: January 28, 2018, 06:58:50 AM »
Well we've seen it in action.
What do you think.
After last night it should be called Scouse TV.
Farcical IMO, total miss use of the system.
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Atomic

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Re: VAR
« Reply #1 on: January 28, 2018, 07:23:20 AM »
It led to correct decisions but it also ruined the spectacle first half. The game being stopped numerous times was ridiculous. You had fans celebrating a goal then having to wait minutes before it being confirmed. It completely ruins the moment and distances the fans, diluting the enjoyment.

The penalty we conceded was a foul by Livermore but Salah went down like he was shot. On another day or had it been us on the receiving end of that "foul" it would probably have been deemed there not enough contact to create the fall and the penalty probably wouldn't have been given.

Does VAR solve everything? No.

Personally rather than have VAR like it was last night I'd rather have the referee make his decision and get on with it. VAR last night was unsatisfactory and I personally don't want to see the game interfered with like that.

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Re: VAR
« Reply #2 on: January 28, 2018, 07:47:59 AM »
The decisions were ALL proved to be correct but the time taken and the communication of them was an utter shambles. People at home new the decisions before the people in the stadium....... and that cannot be right !! VAR.......No thank you !!
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BigFrank20

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Re: VAR
« Reply #3 on: January 28, 2018, 07:55:08 AM »
How much of the whole farrago was because they put a seal in charge of it, a seal who's not supposed to come within a hundred miles of a Baggies game!  >:(
Oh he wasn't was he? He was hiding in a studio in London  :-X
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darbolina

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Re: VAR
« Reply #4 on: January 28, 2018, 08:00:08 AM »
I don't like it at all. Danny Baker summed it up, it feels likes you're taking away a live element of the game at the most important time. It seems like another way to help the richer teams - at least we currently have the chance of human error of the refs on our side against the rich teams!

If this takes hold , football will begin to resemble the start and stop of NFL more and more (shudder)

boinging_along

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Re: VAR
« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2018, 08:11:07 AM »
My issue with the pen was you'll see those awarded at every corner and you can't have players appealing for the use of VAR .

Barrington

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Re: VAR
« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2018, 08:19:01 AM »
Needs to be something like a maximum of 3 appeals for each team in each game by the captain/manager and when an appeal is made to go to VAR there is a loudspeaker announcement and/or visuals on a large screen almost immediately so fans in the ground are aware. That would make it a lot better very quickly. No need to write off the whole concept because of the shambles in one game.

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Re: VAR
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2018, 08:29:02 AM »
Sorry but it wasn't a penalty. Livermore barely touched him for all of 1 second, if one of our players did that then it's pathetic. If ever you've done something like Judo or wrestling then humans don't fall down like that with such ease, it's absolute nonsense but part of the modern game - doesn't make it right and if one of ours dived like that then I'd be embarrassed.
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ashdoy

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Re: VAR
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2018, 08:31:14 AM »
Should have 2 challenges each team per game.

Difficult to have screen replays as not all grounds have them, even a ground the size of Anfield will struggle as I have no idea where they’d put them.

The concept is right; imagine if we went down t a Frank Lampard 2010 style decision, but this format doesn’t work.
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hardtobeat

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Re: VAR
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2018, 08:38:57 AM »
Several improvements need to be implemented before it can be in everyday use
1) transparency: Everybody watching needs to know and be able to see what the issue under review is

2) Only the on field ref should be calling for a review, the bloke in the studio should not be whispering in his ear and players should have absolutely no say in its use

3) the sighting of the monitor should be no where near the dug outs/technical areas

4) limit what it is used for:  we cannot have everything going to review because refs become scared of making a decision . let's stick to incidents where a goal is scored or disallowed at first for the rest leave it to the bloke on the pitch

Other tweaks will be required but start with these and keep it simple
Finally I don't think it did get all decisions correct last night as Barry was clearly pushed before he became offside and therefore should have been a penalty if not a goal
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Re: VAR
« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2018, 08:42:32 AM »
It should just be used imo to check if a goal was offside when the ball is dead. It’s the beginning of the end mark my words it won’t be long until managers and players are going mad and appealing for VAR to check throw ins and corners and it will be used as refs don’t want the grief. Cricket umpires who barely got anything wrong refer obvious decisions now just to guarantee they’re aren’t the villain.

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Re: VAR
« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2018, 08:43:32 AM »
Needs major improvement like Tennis you get three shouts maximum and the decision is by the captain  not the ref like last night.
It's surely best used where the ref as made a plunder last night it was made on very tight decisions which would otherwise have gone unnoticed, keep doing that and games will last 2hrs plus and be totally ruined killing the game as a spectator sport.

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Re: VAR
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2018, 08:44:23 AM »
Several improvements need to be implemented before it can be in everyday use
1) transparency: Everybody watching needs to know and be able to see what the issue under review is

2) Only the on field ref should be calling for a review, the bloke in the studio should not be whispering in his ear and players should have absolutely no say in its use

3) the sighting of the monitor should be no where near the dug outs/technical areas

4) limit what it is used for:  we cannot have everything going to review because refs become scared of making a decision . let's stick to incidents where a goal is scored or disallowed at first for the rest leave it to the bloke on the pitch

Other tweaks will be required but start with these and keep it simple
Finally I don't think it did get all decisions correct last night as Barry was clearly pushed before he became offside and therefore should have been a penalty if not a goal
I'm not sure about point 2 because the VAR ref could spot something significant in the build up to a goal or penalty which the officials miss - it happens in ruby the TMO will occasionally alert the ref to something.

hardtobeat

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Re: VAR
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2018, 08:51:31 AM »
I'm not sure about point 2 because the VAR ref could spot something significant in the build up to a goal or penalty which the officials miss - it happens in ruby the TMO will occasionally alert the ref to something.
The fourth official as well as linos are allowed to do this now we don't need another one . The decisions in Rugby are generally off the ball incidents which when translated to football would not directly affect the scoring of a goal and again the Fa have a panel which metes out punishments for incidents mixed by the ref so again no need
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 09:23:18 AM by hardtobeat »
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KYA

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Re: VAR
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2018, 08:59:09 AM »
Several improvements need to be implemented before it can be in everyday use
1) transparency: Everybody watching needs to know and be able to see what the issue under review is

2) Only the on field ref should be calling for a review, the bloke in the studio should not be whispering in his ear and players should have absolutely no say in its use

3) the sighting of the monitor should be no where near the dug outs/technical areas

4) limit what it is used for:  we cannot have everything going to review because refs become scared of making a decision . let's stick to incidents where a goal is scored or disallowed at first for the rest leave it to the bloke on the pitch

Other tweaks will be required but start with these and keep it simple
Finally I don't think it did get all decisions correct last night as Barry was clearly pushed before he became offside and therefore should have been a penalty if not a goal

Point 2 i would  say the captains make a decision not the ref as in cricket,a ref makes a split second decision that should stand to avoid overuse of the VAR and limit it to 3per side in a game thus avoiding misuse of the system and spoiling the game.

Atomic

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Re: VAR
« Reply #15 on: January 28, 2018, 09:03:16 AM »
Point 2 i would  say the captains make a decision not the ref as in cricket,a ref makes a split second decision that should stand to avoid overuse of the VAR and limit it to 3per side in a game thus avoiding misuse of the system and spoiling the game.


Three per side is too many. That is potentially six calls per game. I think the captain or the manager of each club should be able to make two calls per match.

I don't think the referee should make a call it could get to the stage where refs are scared to make a decision without using VAR as back up.

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Re: VAR
« Reply #16 on: January 28, 2018, 09:14:36 AM »
I did initially post that it should be a maximum of 3 calls for each team in each game. In retrospect, I also think 2 each for major calls could suffice for a football match.

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Re: VAR
« Reply #17 on: January 28, 2018, 09:22:52 AM »
I did initially post that it should be a maximum of 3 calls for each team in each game. In retrospect, I also think 2 each for major calls could suffice for a football match.

No more than 3 agreed with a limit clubs would only use these where the ref as missed something blatant leading to a goal/ goal disallowed for instance.
The downside as in Tennis is when the losing side have nothing to lose and would use up their quota  at the end of a game just at random.

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Re: VAR
« Reply #18 on: January 28, 2018, 09:43:11 AM »
Meh.

First point is that all the decisions was correct and that's the main thing.

First gripe - the decision to disallow the Dawson goal. This happens most weeks and will see a lot of goals chalked off. Furthermore, Mignolet pushes Gareth Barry so should a penalty be awarded before the offside? I want VAR to solve those really contentious decisions, not go searching and creating more.

The second decision is likely to be a penalty in a literal sense but lets look at the scenario. Salah theatrically throws himself to the ground knowing full well he will not get on the end of a cross. It has not denied him a scoring opportunity and has created another contentious issue. That sort of contact happens at every corner and at this rate we'll have 20 penalties a game.

As for the third goal - the fact it needed checking is just poor officiating.

The system can work well - however there are a few things which need to be ironed out
- length of time it takes to make decision
- the types of decision to be referred
- who calls for these decisions to be referred
- importance of notifying fans, players and coaches
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Re: VAR
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2018, 09:55:32 AM »
The one thing that does annoy me is it’s either used in every game in a tournament or none at all. I don’t think it’s fair that a team could be playing at 3pm and get through with a dodgy goal that should have been disallowed as there is no VAR yet a team at 7:45 could potentially go out because of a VAR overturn.

Overall the decisions were correct but it’s not fan friendly at all at the moment, we had scored a third goal at anfield before half time and it should just be pure joy yet I was half bouncing half looking at the ref to confirm it as a goal which took around 30 seconds so the celebration isn’t quite the same.

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Re: VAR
« Reply #20 on: January 28, 2018, 10:02:44 AM »
My take on it is simple.

If you don't have VAR you have to accept the fact that referees get big decisions wrong and sometimes horribly wrong and shut up. Don't complain don't replay every decision from 6 different angles in supper slow motion to reach a conclusion that the referee got it wrong or right.

There is also the culture of undermining refs at every turn abusing them and pushing the very limits of the rule book which needs to be stamped out.

On balance I would rather support the refs with VAR but the guy in booth should make the call so we don't have the farce of the ref trotting over to the sideline to review the footage, that' just silly.

Indecently footballers will have to learn that the all seeing eye will catch them out. Let's face it Livermore might well have got away with that level of contact because it was very difficult for the referee to be sure. 
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Re: VAR
« Reply #21 on: January 28, 2018, 10:20:53 AM »
Cowardly referees will just leave everything to someone sitting in a studio. Without VAR and a Villa tw@t assessing, Dawsons header would have been allowed. There was no appeal from Liverpool players, and I fail to see that VAR proved anything. Just a decision made by someone off the field, proven by the fact that the Referee did not consult the video personally, but he did view for the penalty decision. Yet more inconsistency from the referee.
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Re: VAR
« Reply #22 on: January 28, 2018, 10:32:23 AM »
Who makes the decision to review? Does the ref ask for it or does the VAR ref get in his ear if he wants to review it? I still don’t understand how marriner was allowed to be VAR ref last night, he’s be able to officiate our games since 2013, would a different ref have intervened as many times as he did?
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Re: VAR
« Reply #23 on: January 28, 2018, 10:52:45 AM »
Football is all about pure raw emotion; especially at the moment of a goal (or not). The use of VAR takes away the immediacy of all the emotions surrounding a particular moment.....that moment cannot be re-lived in its purest form. Interruptions to use VAR will kill the most important aspect of the game IMO. Its a no from me.

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Re: VAR
« Reply #24 on: January 28, 2018, 10:56:15 AM »
Cowardly referees will just leave everything to someone sitting in a studio. Without VAR and a Villa tw@t assessing, Dawsons header would have been allowed. There was no appeal from Liverpool players, and I fail to see that VAR proved anything. Just a decision made by someone off the field, proven by the fact that the Referee did not consult the video personally, but he did view for the penalty decision. Yet more inconsistency from the referee.

Sorry the decisions were right. The way that they were implemented was clunky. The authorities want the ref on the field to be the final arbitrator but the VAR alerts the ref to incidents that he might have missed. The VAR ref has a better chance of seeing something it is crazy to pretend otherwise. For the ref to go to the side of the pitch to review the video adds nothing but obviously prolongs the process. 
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