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Author Topic: Jake Livermore  (Read 121473 times)

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Offline frazzle

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1100 on: September 07, 2019, 09:02:42 AM »
He's still very poor, the people insinuating the likes of Krychowiak, Brunt, Barry, Johansen are to blame for him being poor are barmy to be honest.

Barmy is your continued posts about Livermore and Brunt when the facts that Livermore is playing well and Brunt is passed it are clear for everyone to see.


Offline lewisant

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1101 on: September 07, 2019, 09:04:22 AM »
I definitely don't think Brunt is past it, i think he has a part to play from the bench and can still make a positive impact on games. He's not a starter for me though.

Offline Standaman

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1102 on: September 07, 2019, 10:26:14 AM »
I have never been a fan of Livermore although at the very beginning under Pulis I did hold out some hope that he might have improved our moribund midfield. That was quickly snuffed out and there was a telling decline in his pass completion rate (remember he came from Hull who were quite terrible) as he sank into the quagmire of nothingness that was the Pulis midfield.

In football there is a trade off between physical strength and mobility. Plainly the player has got the trade off wrong although in an immobile deep sitting block muscle matters more than mobility. However when we moved to something else under Moore  he was found wanting as were the rest of the less than dynamic trio of Livermore, Brunt and Barry. 

He has shed some of the bulk and it has transformed him as a player and it is churlish to deny it. However the other key difference is movement, not just his but from those around him. The basic principle of passing football is "pass and move" too frequently last year we passed and stood still making it easy for the opposition to regroup and close the ball down. This year there is movement the player on the ball has more than one static option to pass to and frankly it is easier for a central midfielder to look good in this environment than any we have had in the last 6 seasons.

Overall I am delighted to see progress from a player I had written off as a bit of an expensive dud.
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Offline FallOutBoy

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1103 on: September 09, 2019, 12:51:22 PM »
Barmy is your continued posts about Livermore and Brunt when the facts that Livermore is playing well and Brunt is passed it are clear for everyone to see.

To be fair, Livermore is bang average, and Brunt is the better footballer. The thing is we're now at a point where Brunt is at the tail-end of his career, while Livermore is at his peak.

Brunt still has a role as sub, but he will probably make more of a defining contribution in that role than Livemore would if he started all 46.

Offline gazberg

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1104 on: September 09, 2019, 03:42:03 PM »
I had him down as the only midfielder under Brunt in the pecking order but now Brunts right down at the botttom and Livermore has earnt his place.

Offline frazzle

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1105 on: September 09, 2019, 10:18:06 PM »
To be fair, Livermore is bang average, and Brunt is the better footballer. The thing is we're now at a point where Brunt is at the tail-end of his career, while Livermore is at his peak.

Brunt still has a role as sub, but he will probably make more of a defining contribution in that role than Livemore would if he started all 46.

Brunt definitely has been a more cultured footballer. But he’s done now and Livermore’s improved form means Brunt wouldn’t get near to a central midfield role. I think that’s fair enough - he’s had a solid career and finishes with the respect of the fans. His injury that stopped him getting to a tournament will be the biggest regret I’m sure.

Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1106 on: September 10, 2019, 01:11:16 AM »
Brunt definitely has been a more cultured footballer. But he’s done now and Livermore’s improved form means Brunt wouldn’t get near to a central midfield role. I think that’s fair enough - he’s had a solid career and finishes with the respect of the fans. His injury that stopped him getting to a tournament will be the biggest regret I’m sure.


i) Not true.
ii) Not true.
iii) He's had a great career, for solid think the subject of this thread (and that's generous).
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Offline seteefeet

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1107 on: September 10, 2019, 10:06:24 AM »
I'm still not a fan and don't think he's been very good this season. Yes Blackburn was his best game for some time but still a long way to go before I'll be convinced. Sawyers definitely helps as he does a lot of the work Livermore can't such as tackling, passing and showing for the ball.

Offline Hull Baggie

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1108 on: September 10, 2019, 10:14:38 AM »
I'm still not a fan and don't think he's been very good this season. Yes Blackburn was his best game for some time but still a long way to go before I'll be convinced. Sawyers definitely helps as he does a lot of the work Livermore can't such as tackling, passing and showing for the ball.

Sawyers passing has been pretty poor for the last few games. Livermore has been by far the better of the 2.
Apart from the opening game of the season Livermore has been good.
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Offline seteefeet

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1109 on: September 10, 2019, 12:27:51 PM »
Sawyers passing has been pretty poor for the last few games. Livermore has been by far the better of the 2.
Apart from the opening game of the season Livermore has been good.
All about opinions mate, I think he's been poor apart from Blackburn. Sawyers has struggled at times but overall has been  by far the better player and, given a choice between the two, would be my pick every time.

Offline KN22

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1110 on: September 10, 2019, 12:37:54 PM »
It really is all about opinions. I think both Sawyers and Livermore have made good starts to the season and compliment each other very well.

Offline mulliganstired

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1111 on: September 10, 2019, 03:06:36 PM »
He's a big tough looking bloke, but maybe he needs to "feel the love" a bit to be at his best, which I think is probably one of Bilic's strong suits, and ours as a club as well (most of the time!) - don't forget he has been through some personal stuff.

Offline keithowba86

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1112 on: September 10, 2019, 05:31:36 PM »
when hegazi is back, livermore shouldnt be in the 11, just my opinion though

Offline frazzle

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1113 on: September 10, 2019, 06:08:35 PM »

i) Not true.
ii) Not true.
iii) He's had a great career, for solid think the subject of this thread (and that's generous).

If he’s that good then why have we had so few bids for him. I like him. But reality is reality

Online timdon

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1114 on: September 10, 2019, 10:31:05 PM »
If he’s that good then why have we had so few bids for him. I like him. But reality is reality
Head
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Banging.
PS Your original post was spot on btw.
With regard to Livermore, last season he had way too much muscle on him. This season he is slimmer and fitter, and has benefited from having younger and more mobile players beside him. I have never been his biggest fan but he is worth his place in the side at the minute without a doubt.

Offline costa blanca baggie

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1115 on: September 10, 2019, 11:18:17 PM »
Just look at what an International break has done to us. A handful of guys squabbling over Livermore and Brunt. I blame FIFA. And EUFA. And Brexit. And global warming. Roll on Saturday!!! ;D
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Offline costa blanca baggie

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1116 on: September 10, 2019, 11:20:06 PM »
And goalkeepers!! :D
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Offline Hull Baggie

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1117 on: September 11, 2019, 08:51:06 AM »
All about opinions mate, I think he's been poor apart from Blackburn. Sawyers has struggled at times but overall has been  by far the better player and, given a choice between the two, would be my pick every time.

Absolutely, we all see things differently.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Hegazi is fit and back in the back 4, will Bilic drop Bartley and keep Ajayi at CB or will he shuffle the midfield to put Ajayi in?

Personally I'd drop Bartley and the leave the Cm 2 as they are. I don't think Bartley has played that badly apart from a couple of real clangers but Ajayi has generally been the better of the two and Hegazi is better than both.

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Offline Powelly

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1118 on: September 11, 2019, 09:41:49 AM »
when hegazi is back, livermore shouldnt be in the 11, just my opinion though

Hegazi to play centre midfield?

Online Fritzl Palace

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1119 on: September 11, 2019, 09:56:11 AM »
Absolutely, we all see things differently.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Hegazi is fit and back in the back 4, will Bilic drop Bartley and keep Ajayi at CB or will he shuffle the midfield to put Ajayi in?

Personally I'd drop Bartley and the leave the Cm 2 as they are. I don't think Bartley has played that badly apart from a couple of real clangers but Ajayi has generally been the better of the two and Hegazi is better than both.

Spot on.

Ultimately Bartley will always cost us goals and has to be used as a squad player to merely come in for injuries/suspensions, with Hegazi and Ajayi, in my humble opinion, likely to form the best central defensive partnership in the league.

Offline baggie82

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1120 on: September 14, 2019, 02:25:54 PM »
Woeful today. Game turned in our favour when he was subbed.

Offline boinging_along

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1121 on: September 14, 2019, 02:27:28 PM »
Woeful today. Game turned in our favour when he was subbed.

No worse than anyone else but no surprise you're straight on the attack. 

The more impactful change was Edwards for Phillips, Edwards really got forward more.

Offline TheJacko2000

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1122 on: September 14, 2019, 02:31:16 PM »
No worse than anyone else but no surprise you're straight on the attack. 

The more impactful change was Edwards for Phillips, Edwards really got forward more.


He was considerably worse than all of their midfield and the rest of ours.
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Offline baggie82

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1123 on: September 14, 2019, 02:32:14 PM »
No worse than anyone else but no surprise you're straight on the attack. 

The more impactful change was Edwards for Phillips, Edwards really got forward more.

He was a passenger, a big immobile pudding with the game going on around him. Philips was also useless but was starved of the ball. Edwards had Kov linking and playing him in.

Online WBArgo

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Re: Jake Livermore
« Reply #1124 on: September 14, 2019, 03:55:00 PM »
He was poor today but overall has had a good season so far (apart from the opener at Forest where he was also poor).

I think the main thing is the bigger picture though and that's an improvement so I wouldn't drop him just yet. For me, Bilic is the only manager who has got a tune out of him so far.
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