Author Topic: Guochuan Lai  (Read 1112776 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

divinewind

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 8319
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6050 on: June 18, 2019, 12:48:57 PM »
If true it still doesn't answer why Peace took out a secret loan to buy out the other shareholders.

paulosull

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2899
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6051 on: June 18, 2019, 01:22:43 PM »
The whole thing regarding this loan stinks.

Just read a couple of comments on the Express and Star

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/18/guochuan-lai-tells-west-brom-he-cant-settle-41m-debt-because-of-chinese-government-restrictions/

Good job I was sitting down when reading this. Part of me wanted to roll around on the floor laughing at the sheer brass neck and audacity of it. Another part wanted to hit the ceiling in fury.

Let's remind ourselves just how serious this is: Jeremy Peace in 2014 took a secret £3.7 million loan (now £4.1 million, with interest) from West Bromwich Albion Group (currently owned by 12% of us shareholders) to his solely owned company West Bromwich Albion Holdings. Shareholders were then offered £3,000 for each of their shares, which many accepted. It took Mr Peace to above 75% ownership of our club - enabling him to sell. He sold to Palm for approximately £20,000 a share two years later. Surely, he has not used the loan money to actually finance his majority purchase of the club? This would be illegal.

If that was not bad enough - and yes, it's as bad as it sounds - he then refused to pay back the debt, leaving it with the new "owners" who posses 88% of our club. This business of "accruing interest" is also nonsense. Not a single penny of interest has been paid. Can any of us think of a single loan which we've had for five years during which no interest is paid, either monthly, quarterly or annually?

So now Palm come up with this scam...that they are not allowed to pay back a debt because it is linked to a Chinese government directive. What utter nonsense. Mr Lai-Low and his operative in the UK, Mr Li-Lower, (not to mention another Chinese penny pincher, with the cosy nickname of Ken, who is based at the training ground, going through the small change) need to start delivering answers - and fast. The Chinese government is not ordering Mr Lai to avoid a legally due debt. We all want to know what - exactly - Mr Peace did with the cash. What a shower!

Remember: This whole business is not a result of anyone at West Bromwich Albion coming clean about the debt. It is down wholly to forensic work in to past accounts by one of our shareholders, top legal expert and Albion fanatic, Peter Wall - a man who is, quietly and determinedly, demanding answers to a series of key questions. This is an on-going scandal.


And is it true that Mark Jenkins was the Financial Director when the loan was taken out?

Usual pre transfer window PR spin machine is in full force I see...

Fact - Chinese outbound investment has historically fallen into three groups...Encouraged, Restricted and Prohibited. Outward cashflow to sports clubs went from 'Encouraged' to 'Restricted' last year to regulate large outflows. If the outflow is below a certain limit (dont recall the exact figure, but it's in the hundreds of millions) the transaction has to be recorded prior at a local level for approval, anything above has to be ratified and approved centrally by the Chinese government.

It may take a couple of months due to the red tape now in place, but it is completely legal to move funds out of China to facilitate ongoing servicing of initial investment.

Remember, investment is not Prohibited just restricted. I have seen working examples so this is not theory.

excellent post, with regards to Ebenezer did he use illegal methods to increase his shares in club? And from now on I'm using your moniker with regards to owner Lai low still laughing

MarkW

  • Global Moderator
  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 5063
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6052 on: June 18, 2019, 01:32:28 PM »
excellent post, with regards to Ebenezer did he use illegal methods to increase his shares in club? And from now on I'm using your moniker with regards to owner Lai low still laughing

Except it would be against forum rules to use such a moniker, so I would advise against. Oldbury is quoting a comment on the E&S so I'll let him off :P
B_H_Baggie : Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : OldburyWBA
Hull Baggie : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : Political Cake : tommcneill : WBArgo

WBArgo

  • Global Moderator
  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4382
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6053 on: June 18, 2019, 01:39:58 PM »
If Lai is saying he's not allowed to spend due to the Chinese government then what about Wolves, Athletico Madrid et al who have Chinese owners?
B_H_Baggie : Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : OldburyWBA
Hull Baggie : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : Political Cake : tommcneill : WBArgo

Mister AT

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3581
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6054 on: June 18, 2019, 01:49:09 PM »
If Lai is saying he's not allowed to spend due to the Chinese government then what about Wolves, Athletico Madrid et al who have Chinese owners?

If I'm right, the Wolves and Atletico owners have money sources in Europe (or at least not held in China), from what I gather Mr Lai's money is all in China hence the alleged 'complications.'
Loading...

skyclad99

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 2089
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6055 on: June 18, 2019, 01:49:24 PM »
If true it still doesn't answer why Peace took out a secret loan to buy out the other shareholders.

The cynic in me tells me that he either could not afford it/or did not want to put his own money in, so taking out this secret loan to buy shares using borrowed money against the club was always part of the big plan.

Lai really has had his pants pulled down big time.
What have we done?
And what have we become
In this distance from our Mother
From the gates of late Eden?

AlbionFan

  • Site Donator
  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2909
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6056 on: June 18, 2019, 01:53:00 PM »
Didn’t the Glazer’s buy Manchester United in the same way via loans from the club?
Prediction, we are heading for a hung parliament

skyclad99

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 2089
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6057 on: June 18, 2019, 02:09:31 PM »
Didn’t the Glazer’s buy Manchester United in the same way via loans from the club?

It was a similar set up from memory, but I think the difference is that the debt is paid and the Glazers continue to be rather generous with the transfer fees.
What have we done?
And what have we become
In this distance from our Mother
From the gates of late Eden?

divinewind

  • WBA Coach

  • Offline
  • ******

  • 8319
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6058 on: June 18, 2019, 04:01:17 PM »
The cynic in me tells me that he either could not afford it/or did not want to put his own money in, so taking out this secret loan to buy shares using borrowed money against the club was always part of the big plan.

Lai really has had his pants pulled down big time.

I am very dubious about him having his pants pulled down. There was a reason he wanted to buy us and pay above the odds for us. We cost more than Wolves, Villa and Blues put together, yes we were premier league but a club of our size wasn't worth what he paid for us.
Billionaires rarely make mistakes in big business ventures, they have solicitors and accountants going over the detail again and again. He knew what he was getting.
Since he has bought the club he has shown very little interest in it.
So what was his reason to spend such a huge sum on something he isn't interested in? That is what worries me.

BalisPen

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 433
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6059 on: June 18, 2019, 04:04:21 PM »
Inter company loans are quite common and usually are payable on demand.

I don't know if the Board (what's the point as JP would have sacked any dissenters) agreed on it, but JP should have paid it back.

Does it surprise me he did it? No, as I think JP only ever cared about himself and out of his many ventures (you'll be surprised how many pies he's got his fingers if you search his directorships) we were the one that laid the golden egg and I rue the day Thompson brought him in.

He came in forced Thompson out and systematically bought the shares of small shareholders, with scheme after scheme.

I hate the bloke, but I don't think he has done anything illegal as he's taken the loan and it's not secret or anything, it's in the company house records.

This is points Lai appointing a monkey to do due diligence for him, as any decent Accountant/Lawyer would have seen this and highlighted it to him.

As suspected, OldburyWBA post confirms what I have said for ages that if Lai had money he could get it out of China.

I only hope behind the scenes he has decided to sell up and is looking for better buyers than him for us.

baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1369
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6060 on: June 18, 2019, 07:19:34 PM »
The excellent post from Oldbury at 12:29pm sums this up.

Jeremy Peace is a complete *******. In secret his took out a loan on the clubs expense to increase his own shareholding and profit upon sale. The club have never acknowledged the loan until outed by an external shareholder and fan who did some digging.

Lai is using the smokescreen of Chinese investment rules to refuse to pay back a loan he agreed to inherit. Repaying a loan isn't investment, it's payment of a legally due debt, secondly investment is not prohibited, only restricted, i.e. has to be signed off by the local Chinese state government or if at an astronomical sum approved by the central Chinese government. The club accounts state that the debt is repayable on demand. The debt has been demanded and the owner has refused to pay it! The owner is therefore in default. Catch-22 has now occurred due to the conflict of interest and the club has received no income. A bank is not going to loan against a debt that the debtor has defaulted on.

This is a shameful episode and reinforces the point that:

1) JP sold us for his own gain not to further the clubs interest as per the misleading PR at the time (else he would have obtained legally binding assurances upon future investment).

2) JP leveraged the clubs assets in a secret loan to increase his shareholding, control, and profit.

3) Lai lacks the means or alternatively the intent or both the means and intent to invest in the club, not willing to even pay back a relatively small loan. £4m would go a long way to covering Gayle's wage for two years.

As a fanbase we have been completely shafted and have no say at all over the ownership that will define us I fear for decades.

overseas baggie

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2862
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6061 on: June 18, 2019, 08:08:59 PM »
The excellent post from Oldbury at 12:29pm sums this up.

Jeremy Peace is a complete *******. In secret his took out a loan on the clubs expense to increase his own shareholding and profit upon sale. The club have never acknowledged the loan until outed by an external shareholder and fan who did some digging.

Lai is using the smokescreen of Chinese investment rules to refuse to pay back a loan he agreed to inherit. Repaying a loan isn't investment, it's payment of a legally due debt, secondly investment is not prohibited, only restricted, i.e. has to be signed off by the local Chinese state government or if at an astronomical sum approved by the central Chinese government. The club accounts state that the debt is repayable on demand. The debt has been demanded and the owner has refused to pay it! The owner is therefore in default. Catch-22 has now occurred due to the conflict of interest and the club has received no income. A bank is not going to loan against a debt that the debtor has defaulted on.

This is a shameful episode and reinforces the point that:

1) JP sold us for his own gain not to further the clubs interest as per the misleading PR at the time (else he would have obtained legally binding assurances upon future investment).

2) JP leveraged the clubs assets in a secret loan to increase his shareholding, control, and profit.

3) Lai lacks the means or alternatively the intent or both the means and intent to invest in the club, not willing to even pay back a relatively small loan. £4m would go a long way to covering Gayle's wage for two years.

As a fanbase we have been completely shafted and have no say at all over the ownership that will define us I fear for decades.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the repayment of the debt has been demanded. I understand that no such demand has been made by the club.

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 11226
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6062 on: June 18, 2019, 10:31:24 PM »
Effectively he'd be demanding he pay the loan to himself. Mind boggles. Ultimate storm in a teacup by journo's who've got a week to wait before we do anything because Slav is on his jollies.
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 01:13:05 AM by TheJacko2000 »
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1369
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6063 on: June 19, 2019, 12:09:50 AM »
There is no evidence whatsoever that the repayment of the debt has been demanded. I understand that no such demand has been made by the club.

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/18/guochuan-lai-tells-west-brom-he-cant-settle-41m-debt-because-of-chinese-government-restrictions/

The club journalist at E&S is categorical. Don’t tell me you have better sources than he does?

bangkokbaggie

  • Youth Baggie

  • Offline
  • ***

  • 697
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6064 on: June 19, 2019, 06:53:42 AM »
I have always had the opinion that JP was only ever looking after himself rather than the club and never believed the spin coming from him. This is yet more evidence that questions whether he ever used his own money for investing in the club.

BB74

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 4121
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6065 on: June 19, 2019, 08:18:06 AM »
I have always had the opinion that JP was only ever looking after himself rather than the club and never believed the spin coming from him. This is yet more evidence that questions whether he ever used his own money for investing in the club.

A shrewd businessman never uses his own money for anything.

darbolina

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1102
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6066 on: June 19, 2019, 08:21:14 AM »
Unless JP did something illegal its time to move on and look at Jenkins and Lai.  Jenkins was Peace's FD and currently Lai's CEO. Lai should've done proper due dilligence and should communicate.

I have very little trust or confidence in Lai or Jenkins tbf


boinging_along

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 3073
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6067 on: June 19, 2019, 09:58:40 AM »
It's no different to taking a loan out against a house to purchase a house, as dodgy as it seems.

liverbaggie

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1386
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6068 on: June 19, 2019, 05:11:58 PM »
So why doesn't Mr.Lai  start up another business in the UK?
Then perhaps money could flow between them?

baggie82

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1369
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6069 on: June 19, 2019, 07:13:28 PM »
So why doesn't Mr.Lai  start up another business in the UK?
Then perhaps money could flow between them?

He already had businesses in Hong Kong and outside China, nothing to stop him paying back the loan except himself, he doesn't want to do it and may not have the cash - this is a guy who couldn't muster the funds to buy us himself. He invested 66% of the takeover cash with the unidentified investors in that takeover company chipping in with the rest. Have a look at their website. No investments since buying us and the website looks like it was built in late 80s. Doesn't exactly smell money.

liverbaggie

  • Reserve Baggie

  • Offline
  • ****

  • 1386
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6070 on: June 19, 2019, 08:18:09 PM »
Last time I looked HK is in China.
Where else outside China does he have business apart from us.

overseas baggie

  • Senior Baggie

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 2862
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6071 on: June 19, 2019, 08:44:31 PM »
Last time I looked HK is in China.
Where else outside China does he have business apart from us.

No it isn’t.  It’s part of the Special Economic Region but won’t be part of China until 2047.

The Tank

  • Baby Baggie

  • Offline
  • *

  • 95
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6072 on: June 19, 2019, 09:08:08 PM »
Unless JP did something illegal its time to move on and look at Jenkins and Lai.  Jenkins was Peace's FD and currently Lai's CEO. Lai should've done proper due dilligence and should communicate.

I have very little trust or confidence in Lai or Jenkins tbf
Most certainly nothing illegal.  Just plain immoral.   Most true fans would have put a great percentage of any "profit" back in to the club. 

TheJacko2000

  • WBA Manager

  • Offline
  • *******

  • 11226
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6073 on: June 19, 2019, 09:33:37 PM »
Most certainly nothing illegal.  Just plain immoral.   Most true fans would have put a great percentage of any "profit" back in to the club.


Just don't think this is true.
Proud to be a Baggie. BOING BOING.

OldburyWBA

  • Administrator
  • WBA Chairman

  • Offline
  • *****

  • 40176
Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #6074 on: June 20, 2019, 11:37:48 AM »
Not sure if this has been seen or means anything, its just at the bottom of the Express and Satr interview with John Wile

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/06/20/john-wile-slaven-bilic-is-sort-of-man-id-want-to-play-for/

Meanwhile, around 11.5 million shares have been sold from Palm eco-town development company and speculation in China claims Albion owner Guochuan Lai is the only person with a holding large enough to sell that number.

On current valuation that amount of shares is worth roughly £5.2m.
B_H_Baggie : Dexy : Dudleylad : kris_boing : OldburyWBA
Hull Baggie : LiamTheBaggie : MarkW : Political Cake : tommcneill : WBArgo