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Author Topic: Extinction Rebellion in London  (Read 2371 times)

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Offline BB74

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Extinction Rebellion in London
« on: April 15, 2019, 10:25:27 PM »
Peaceful protest apparently but they decide to cause criminal damage.

Why do these eco-type always look like they need a good wash?

Offline 17GD

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2019, 10:57:04 PM »
because that's nature duuuude lol.

I'm fed up of protests. When I worked at a school it was protest this protest that. For me it loses its impact when they happen too often. And protests that cause criminal damage or seriously put people out really bug me. Like the protests that have gone into airport runways and people's holidays get ruined. It's ok saying "well insurance covers it" but 1) it's ruined someones holiday and 2) when you claim off insurance your premium goes up, so who loses out... Man it bugs me haha.

Offline tuamigos

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2019, 06:50:50 AM »
Scruffy fkers should be working not destroying property and making a mess.
You see these eco warriors all the time, faces stapled together with pins and studs, have you ever got near a couple? They stink to high heaven.
Happy to bemoan normal society whilst turning up every week to get their gyro.
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Offline kc56wba

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2019, 09:04:46 AM »
Causing criminal damage then the authorities have to use chemicals to remove the graffiti, isn't that the very thing they are protesting about. :o
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Offline divinewind

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2019, 12:55:32 PM »
Once we humans are extinct the planet will look after itself.

Offline Norfolk Baggie

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2019, 01:14:05 PM »
Causing criminal damage then the authorities have to use chemicals to remove the graffiti, isn't that the very thing they are protesting about. :o

And blocking the roads will cause more emissions as cars move slower or not at all.

Offline smethwick2

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #6 on: April 23, 2019, 01:34:21 PM »
because that's nature duuuude lol.

I'm fed up of protests. When I worked at a school it was protest this protest that. For me it loses its impact when they happen too often. And protests that cause criminal damage or seriously put people out really bug me. Like the protests that have gone into airport runways and people's holidays get ruined. It's ok saying "well insurance covers it" but 1) it's ruined someones holiday and 2) when you claim off insurance your premium goes up, so who loses out... Man it bugs me haha.

Fully agree with this, even holiday makers are just a subsection of people/services that need the airports to function. Organ transplant donations, people going to see family they only get the chance to once a year, businesses importing/exporting to name a few. Thousands and thousands of people use the airport for a whole host of reasons which are very, very important

Offline Barrington

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #7 on: April 23, 2019, 02:37:31 PM »
Pro-Brexit protesters could learn a thing or two from this lot. Just moaning on the internet is not going to stop the government from pretty much overturning the result of the referendum.

Offline hardtobeat

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #8 on: April 23, 2019, 05:39:39 PM »
Whilst I have an amount of sympathy with their aims they are proving themselves to be stupidly hypocritical , jumping on planes at a moments notice , plastics left all over open spaces etc are all things they have perpetrated yet profess to be against !!
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #9 on: April 23, 2019, 05:47:16 PM »
If they want to make a real difference to climate change, I suggest they target, let’s say China, where their record on the effect their booming industries are having on the environment and climate is appalling. But I wonder how long the Chinese authorities would put up with such demonstrations, weeks, days, hours, more like minutes!
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Offline BoingFlyer

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2019, 07:36:52 PM »
If they want to make a real difference to climate change, I suggest they target, let’s say China, where their record on the effect their booming industries are having on the environment and climate is appalling. But I wonder how long the Chinese authorities would put up with such demonstrations, weeks, days, hours, more like minutes!

We can't influence what the Chinese do but we can change the laws to dictate what can be imported. if enough countries do that they will adapt.

Good luck to them.
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2019, 08:27:10 PM »
We can't influence what the Chinese do but we can change the laws to dictate what can be imported. if enough countries do that they will adapt.

Good luck to them.

Britain has gone without burning coal for longer than at any time since the industrial revolution. We are reducing carbon emissions faster than any other big country.

The growth markets for the activists demonstrations are China and India, so as well as us passing laws, why don’t the climate activists spend their time educating the populations of these countries instead of, unfairly, affecting the lives of innocents and leaving an “eco-unfriendly” trail in their wake, which in my opinion is hypocritical, a do as we say, not as we do attitude.

This was the quote from Daze Aghaji, a spokesperson for Extinction Rebellion on Sky News earlier  “The only way we’ve realised the Government will listen to us is if we actually start to ruin the economy”. So, what actually is their agenda, it hardly appears to be ordinary people friendly, now does it?

And after 5 or 6 days of disruption to some of the less well off citizens of our society, I don’t think I’m alone in not understanding what the real specifics are of their agenda as it appears to be based on broad statements of wanting to effect change in the “World Climate” but how?

Their time would be better spent and have more impact by lobbying the UN before the 2019 Climate Change Summit later in the year in my opinion
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 08:50:15 PM by MarkW »
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Offline ex coseley kid

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #12 on: April 24, 2019, 08:09:21 AM »
The suffragettes were alarmingly radical. It worked for them in the end though.

Don't like what they are doing at all - but I like what our governments are doing far less.

They are protesting against a culture that, if left in motion, will be the ruin of our race.
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2019, 08:38:20 AM »
The UK in not the problem, we’re not “ignoring” climate change. U.K. emissions in 2017 were 43% less than in 1990, achieved in a remarkable timescale really given the costs and implications.

It is China, India, Russia et al, where the real impact lies. In China they are opening one new coal fired power station a week, that’s the issue. You get bigger wins if you tackle the areas that have the most significant impact, not areas that are at the margins, like the UK relatively speaking.
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Offline Hunnington Baggie

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2019, 09:11:59 AM »
The UK in not the problem, we’re not “ignoring” climate change. U.K. emissions in 2017 were 43% less than in 1990, achieved in a remarkable timescale really given the costs and implications.

It is China, India, Russia et al, where the real impact lies. In China they are opening one new coal fired power station a week, that’s the issue. You get bigger wins if you tackle the areas that have the most significant impact, not areas that are at the margins, like the UK relatively speaking.
agreed

 a decade ago (2008) Britain was the 9th largest emitter of CO2 in the world with 1.8% total global value. By 2015 (the most recent I can find) Britain had fallen to 15th with 1% falling behind the likes of Japan, Iran, Mexico, Brazil and Indonesia. It is the developing world that needs support to reduce their emissions as more and more manufacturing jobs will travel there for cheap labour along with current manufacturing houses like USA, China, Russia and Japan.

In terms of ocean plastics, 90% comes from 10 rivers, 8 of which are in Asia.

Britain is small fry with a (comparatively) strong desire to change and reduce it’s footprint. if they truly want change they’ll have to sway the poor of Asia to change their lives and potentially lose their jobs for climate change.

Offline Albionic

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2019, 03:41:26 PM »
The UK in not the problem, we’re not “ignoring” climate change. U.K. emissions in 2017 were 43% less than in 1990, achieved in a remarkable timescale really given the costs and implications.

It is China, India, Russia et al, where the real impact lies. In China they are opening one new coal fired power station a week, that’s the issue. You get bigger wins if you tackle the areas that have the most significant impact, not areas that are at the margins, like the UK relatively speaking.

Not any more, china is shifting massively to nuclear power and every cab / bus (a hell of a lot) is electric now.
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2019, 04:27:20 PM »
Not any more, china is shifting massively to nuclear power and every cab / bus (a hell of a lot) is electric now.

This article is worth reading, if there were an doubt

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45640706
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Offline Hunnington Baggie

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2019, 05:03:06 PM »
Not any more, china is shifting massively to nuclear power and every cab / bus (a hell of a lot) is electric now.
from what I can tell that only covers 20 cities in the country, there are 662 cities in total with over 120 with 1million people or more (for comparison, Britain has 2 cities with over 1 million excluding metro areas, London and Birmingham).

Offline WBAinDEVON

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2019, 05:49:23 PM »
the great unwashed
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Offline Albionic

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2019, 06:13:25 PM »
This article is worth reading, if there were an doubt

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-45640706

Perhaps I have read the wrong propaganda then 🤢
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Offline MarkW

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2019, 10:01:01 PM »
The whole "but what about China" argument seems sensible, but I'd like to offer some counter points.

First, just because pollution is worse somewhere else, doesn't mean we can't try to do better here in the UK. In much the same way that just because there are serial killers, doesn't mean I can get away with just the one murder.

Related to this, we know pollution is bad, so just because it's worse elsewhere, doesn't absolve us from a responsibility to try and lead the way, and put pressure on other countries to clean up their act.

Second, the effects of UK pollution are tangible and apparent. They can be localised, for example London air pollution creates a noticeable haze and I can only speak for myself, but I notice the air is considerably worse in the city.

Third, China produces a lot of goods, which we then buy. Whether it's consumer goods or manufacturing, we buy the stuff that they produce, so we are partly culpable.

Finally, roughly per capita, our emissions are similar to China's. Not the exact same, but China has many more people, so it would be expected to have higher emissions.

I'm not saying China couldn't do more - the pollution of its rivers is obscene. I'm just saying that China doesn't absolve us of trying to improve ourselves
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Offline divinewind

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2019, 08:59:55 AM »
The same old story, a good cause is ruined by an idiotic few and then everyone gets tarred wit the same brush.
All these people have achieved is to make everyone else believe that anyone who wants a greener healthier planet for our children, are a bunch of raving lunatics.

Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2019, 03:45:06 PM »
The whole "but what about China" argument seems sensible, but I'd like to offer some counter points.

I think you understate your argument by using just one example i.e. China, a country which is by no means the worsts offender. But I understand the point you make and I will respond in general terms but using China as the example with the odd other country thrown in for good measure.

First, just because pollution is worse somewhere else, doesn't mean we can't try to do better here in the UK. In much the same way that just because there are serial killers, doesn't mean I can get away with just the one murder.

We do and we are trying to do better.

To use your analogy of serial killers, more resources would be diverted into the hunt for a serial killer than would be for a single murder hunt and that is how it should be in both scenarios. We need balance, quantitive and qualitative information that is required for good decision making, but that doesn’t always get disseminated and as a result mixed and confused messages are delivered as there is no real consensus on Global Warming.


Related to this, we know pollution is bad, so just because it's worse elsewhere, doesn't absolve us from a responsibility to try and lead the way, and put pressure on other countries to clean up their act.

True, but I think you are repeating yourself, again the point is valid and well made, but whilst the UK does make representation regarding Global Warming by setting a personal example and championing the cause at Summit meetings on Global Warming, there is little else we can do and who do you think the likes of China, India, Russia, America et al are more likely to listen to or take note of, the UN or the UK? We are a member Country of the UN Council along side many other influential countries anyway.


Second, the effects of UK pollution are tangible and apparent. They can be localised, for example London air pollution creates a noticeable haze and I can only speak for myself, but I notice the air is considerably worse in the city.

Again a substantive point you raise, which is being addressed in many ways, none least by manufacturing and introducing all electric cars by 2030. Additionally, the Mayor of London, for instance, has recently introducing Ultra Low Emission Zones and has commissioned studies on the health of children in near by schools so that irrefutable evidence can be obtained on the effects on health of toxic emissions.

Third, China produces a lot of goods, which we then buy. Whether it's consumer goods or manufacturing, we buy the stuff that they produce, so we are partly culpable.

I think you are viewing this with a single myopic lens, albeit a not unimportant perspective. However, there are many factors to be taken into consideration, for instance, we are also helping China to develop into a more Capitalist economy. This will allow, the UN for instance, to lever influence on many Chinese issue, none least civil rights, and so that they become a more free, diverse and equitable society, these are as immediately important in China as global warming in my view.

Finally, roughly per capita, our emissions are similar to China's. Not the exact same, but China has many more people, so it would be expected to have higher emissions.

That stat, like all stats can mislead, for however you care to dress it up China pours out more emissions into the atmosphere than the UK and a lot more, period. It should also be acknowledged that the use of carbon fuels in the UK, is easier to estimate than in countries like China where local populations excavate their own coal and gas and burn wood that is impossible to make allowance for in calculations. And does China really know the full extent of its own population? Well, I for one would have to question that.

I'm not saying China couldn't do more - the pollution of its rivers is obscene. I'm just saying that China doesn't absolve us of trying to improve ourselves

China isn’t alone, there are many other growing economies through out the world and if you were to combine all there emissions per capita, ours would be negligible in comparison, but as you say that shouldn’t prevent us from doing what is right and it doesn’t.

I’ve tried to balance the equation and probably haven’t succeeded as I’m no expert in global warming. I’ve also tried to offer a perspective that the UK is a leading contributor in the reduction of emissions, it might not be enough or quick enough for some, but that shouldn’t legitimise trying to diminish our efforts. Also as individuals we need to take responsibility and be more aware and conscious of ways in which we can effect our micro-environment more positively than negatively. Who amongst us, on a personal basis, can say their carbon footprint is 100% eco-friendly, I’ll be honest and admit I can’t and don’t and not because I don’t want too.

Yes as a nation we need to do more without doubt, there is no end game to our efforts in this conflict, it is perpetual. But we can’t keep sitting back and expecting the UK government to do it all for us and other Nations. Protesting is fine, but I do question how some protests are undertaken and presented to the public to get them onside. The protesters need to have a real, a tangible and coherent messages and strategies that they can communicate that will resonate with all levels of our society. Blocking London streets for the time they did raised publicity to their cause, but did it raise awareness? I don’t know, but they could have recruited 1,000’s, maybe millions to their cause, instead of alienating people as they clearly did in some instances if social media is to be believed.

In the final analysis, the root of the problem is the size of the worlds population, there are too many of us, everyone of us is a consumer with demands. So, currently, with the science, technology and resources that we have, we cannot sustain our planet as its inhabitants would want. I’m not certain that we will ever not be in crisis to some degree or another with this issue. However, if it gets really, really serious, then governments would have to limit a couple to one child, cutting down on consumers and their demand will balance the equation in my view.
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Offline mulliganstired

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #23 on: April 27, 2019, 09:32:36 AM »
I’ve tried to balance the equation and probably haven’t succeeded as I’m no expert in global warming. I’ve also tried to offer a perspective that the UK is a leading contributor in the reduction of emissions, it might not be enough or quick enough for some, but that shouldn’t legitimise trying to diminish our efforts. Also as individuals we need to take responsibility and be more aware and conscious of ways in which we can effect our micro-environment more positively than negatively. Who amongst us, on a personal basis, can say their carbon footprint is 100% eco-friendly, I’ll be honest and admit I can’t and don’t and not because I don’t want too.

Yes as a nation we need to do more without doubt, there is no end game to our efforts in this conflict, it is perpetual. But we can’t keep sitting back and expecting the UK government to do it all for us and other Nations. Protesting is fine, but I do question how some protests are undertaken and presented to the public to get them onside. The protesters need to have a real, a tangible and coherent messages and strategies that they can communicate that will resonate with all levels of our society. Blocking London streets for the time they did raised publicity to their cause, but did it raise awareness? I don’t know, but they could have recruited 1,000’s, maybe millions to their cause, instead of alienating people as they clearly did in some instances if social media is to be believed.

In the final analysis, the root of the problem is the size of the worlds population, there are too many of us, everyone of us is a consumer with demands. So, currently, with the science, technology and resources that we have, we cannot sustain our planet as its inhabitants would want. I’m not certain that we will ever not be in crisis to some degree or another with this issue. However, if it gets really, really serious, then governments would have to limit a couple to one child, cutting down on consumers and their demand will balance the equation in my view.
I've thought for years that it is over population that is the real problem, a strange alliance of right wing religious fundamentalist ideas about more babies for God/Allah whoever, and left wing ideas that equate any mention of overpopulation with calling for gas chambers means its never really discussed properly. 

Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Extinction Rebellion in London
« Reply #24 on: April 27, 2019, 09:38:54 AM »
The climate change committee will release a report to recommend ditching the decade-old target to reduce the UK’s greenhouse gas emissions by at least 80 per cent by 2050. It wants to replace it with a significantly more stretching one.

There new target is to reduce emissions by 100% in 2050
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