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Online zippyandbungle

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2350 on: December 16, 2018, 10:15:42 PM »
Club legend and fantastic person,but please lets be honest a football manager he is not,it will all end in tears,we still have no cohesion or fluidity to our play,we totally rely on individual moments of brilliance and Harvey Barnes,with someone like Dean Smith in charge we would be 10 points clear,the ridiculous 3 at the back play it out experiment cost us many points and ground,the subsitutions aren't great or just don't happen,ie taking off Barnes at boro,keeping Morrison on so long he cant close down,apart from Leeds and Qpr,we really haven't been very good at all,im not sure what is happening on the training ground
10 points clear
Well in that case let's go get him then ....however, this Dean smith fella ...you do know his fantastic manergerial capabilities failed to beat our guy, and he oversaw a 5 goal concede ...you sure ?
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Online TheJacko2000

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2351 on: December 17, 2018, 06:07:02 AM »
Club legend and fantastic person,but please lets be honest a football manager he is not,it will all end in tears,we still have no cohesion or fluidity to our play,we totally rely on individual moments of brilliance and Harvey Barnes,with someone like Dean Smith in charge we would be 10 points clear,the ridiculous 3 at the back play it out experiment cost us many points and ground,the subsitutions aren't great or just don't happen,ie taking off Barnes at boro,keeping Morrison on so long he cant close down,apart from Leeds and Qpr,we really haven't been very good at all,im not sure what is happening on the training ground


Moore has taken points off the wonderful Mr Smith as well as Bielsa, Pochettino, Klopp, Mourinho, and Benitez...
« Last Edit: December 17, 2018, 08:46:31 AM by OldburyWBA »
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Offline frazzle

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2352 on: December 17, 2018, 07:43:17 AM »
10 points clear
Well in that case let's go get him then ....however, this Dean smith fella ...you do know his fantastic manergerial capabilities failed to beat our guy, and he oversaw a 5 goal concede ...you sure ?

Added to the fact that there’s just the slightest chance that he wouldn’t have taken the job.

Offline OldburyWBA

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2353 on: December 17, 2018, 08:47:31 AM »
Cut the personal comments out please, time to start handing out the 7 dayts again and in some cases it will be a permanent one given past misdemeanors
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Offline Mister AT

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2354 on: December 17, 2018, 09:59:56 AM »
Club legend and fantastic person,but please lets be honest a football manager he is not,it will all end in tears,we still have no cohesion or fluidity to our play,we totally rely on individual moments of brilliance and Harvey Barnes,with someone like Dean Smith in charge we would be 10 points clear,the ridiculous 3 at the back play it out experiment cost us many points and ground,the subsitutions aren't great or just don't happen,ie taking off Barnes at boro,keeping Morrison on so long he cant close down,apart from Leeds and Qpr,we really haven't been very good at all,im not sure what is happening on the training ground

It's all good using those examples, but on the swing side you could also say that 99% of fans would have replaced Rodriguez for Sako in the villa game, which in hindsight would have meant Rodriguez wouldn't have been there to score his 'hand of Rod' and we would have lost the game.

I think some fans (not yourself) always want/need someone to moan about. Last year it was Pulis, then Pardew, then we looked at moaning at players, this season HRK became the one everyone laughed at, then he played well so it moved to Brunt, now hes out the team its DM getting the stick with subs.

Cant we just enjoy the ride. We have seen many teams this season drop points in unexpected games, I don't care who you are you wont walk away with the league by December. Leeds and Norwich have a little gap now from 3rd place yet I guarantee all their fans are still worried their form will drop off and they'll slip up.

We score goals for fun, we concede goals at a higher rate than we probably should, but you know what, its entertaining. Last season we all cried out to be entertained and to enjoy watching us play again and I can hand on heart say I would rather watch us play now than at any point over the last 2/3 years.

DM is a club legend, has the clubs best interest at heart, basically had to run the club on his own in the summer, has hardly had any real backing from the owner in regards to money etc, and we are still sitting in 3rd with a couple of winnable games coming up.

With some of the comments on here, anyone would think we are mid table and struggling.
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Offline Albionic

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2355 on: December 17, 2018, 10:06:30 AM »
Darren has had 1 transfer window where he was hamstrung by the club (no execs in place and the Chadli farce) and had to resort to bringing in old players out of desperation to have a reasonably competitive squad.
I hope that we now have some opportunity to bring in some flair / pace / dynamism, lets not forget that some more established managers than Darren have struggled to get as good results in this division (Smith / Rowett / Pulis / Potter / Lambert).

Yes there has been a learning curve but what can we expect from a bloke with less than 30 games under his belt and a brand spanking new backroom team ??
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Offline SmethDan

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2356 on: December 17, 2018, 10:35:24 AM »
Darren has had 1 transfer window where he was hamstrung by the club (no execs in place and the Chadli farce) and had to resort to bringing in old players out of desperation to have a reasonably competitive squad.
I hope that we now have some opportunity to bring in some flair / pace / dynamism, lets not forget that some more established managers than Darren have struggled to get as good results in this division (Smith / Rowett / Pulis / Potter / Lambert).

Yes there has been a learning curve but what can we expect from a bloke with less than 30 games under his belt and a brand spanking new backroom team ??

Whatever happens I just hope he's properly backed by the club during the coming transfer window. No real excuses for those at the top now as everybody appears to be in place. And you can bet some of the names you've mentioned such as Smith and Rowett will definitely receive the backing to strengthen their squads in January. Luke Dowling, Ian Pierce and Mark Jenkins - over to you.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
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Offline Mister AT

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2357 on: December 17, 2018, 11:02:58 AM »
Darren has had 1 transfer window where he was hamstrung by the club (no execs in place and the Chadli farce) and had to resort to bringing in old players out of desperation to have a reasonably competitive squad.
I hope that we now have some opportunity to bring in some flair / pace / dynamism, lets not forget that some more established managers than Darren have struggled to get as good results in this division (Smith / Rowett / Pulis / Potter / Lambert).

Yes there has been a learning curve but what can we expect from a bloke with less than 30 games under his belt and a brand spanking new backroom team ??

Spot on.

If you look at the transfers DM made initially:

Johnstone - (younger replacement for Foster, im sure 99% fans were happy with this signing)

Bartley - again an experienced championship player, younger than Evans and McAuley.

Barnes - youthful player, flair and pace.

Gayle - Clinical in the championship, arguably the best striker in the league.

Each of those signings improved the first 11 when they were signed. DM may have been let down by tewith other targets, we will never know fully.

Transfer window shuts and we obviously didn't get all the targets we had hoped for, DM has then had to get some freebies in (99 times out of 100 these will be 'older heads'). Mears was cover for RB, DM had worked with him before so I can see why he went there. Wes and Sako have championship experience and on short term contracts they gave us other options. I think the fact that neither of them have really been used tells you that they were literally brought in as cover IF needed.

January will be an interesting one, we know seem more secure recruitment wise than we did in the summer and there seems to be a system in place, DM has an opportunity to bring in a couple of faces (obviously if the board give him a budget).

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Offline seteefeet

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2358 on: December 17, 2018, 11:26:36 AM »
Club legend and fantastic person,but please lets be honest a football manager he is not,it will all end in tears,we still have no cohesion or fluidity to our play,we totally rely on individual moments of brilliance and Harvey Barnes,with someone like Dean Smith in charge we would be 10 points clear,the ridiculous 3 at the back play it out experiment cost us many points and ground,the subsitutions aren't great or just don't happen,ie taking off Barnes at boro,keeping Morrison on so long he cant close down,apart from Leeds and Qpr,we really haven't been very good at all,im not sure what is happening on the training ground
Since Smith the messiah took over at Villa, his record is W5, D3, L2. Darren Moore's record over the same period, W5, D3, L2.
Identical records, yet one is a tactical genius and the other not even fit to be called a "football manager". Sorry but that just doesn't stack up.
I'm all for criticism, where it's warranted, but to ignore the impact DM has had, and belittle him in such a way is just disrespectful.

Offline Backofthenet

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2359 on: December 17, 2018, 11:50:31 AM »
It really is about time people got of Darren's back. Third in the league is a very solid start and there will be 21 other teams who would swap with us. I'm not sure if anyone on here would want to swap with them. If we were playing awful and not getting results you might have some reason to moan, but realistically we are going into matches feeling like we are going to get something. Granted it took a few games for us to find our feet but we now have a pretty solid platform to build on. I'm not a big fan of the January window personally as I think signings are either panic buys and over priced or players that are not deemed good enough for their own clubs. My concern if anything is that we retain the players we have and if anything I would try and sign Barnes on a permanent deal - that would be like a signing and send out a message.
Keep it going Darren I think you are doing well.
When I was in Australia in October I bumped into a Cardiff fan who saw my Albion tee shirt and said he wished they had not gone up and he bet we would be very happy winning and competing in games. How right he was.

Offline Norfolk Baggie

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2360 on: December 17, 2018, 12:38:11 PM »
I have kept quiet on this debate so far, but feel a need to comment having read the last couple of pages of this thread.  Firstly, on Darren's appointment I think this was quite cynical.  No real money sanctioned to be spent from above (and I do not think that any will be spent in January either), so the owners of the club played to the gallery and appointed Darren on the back of a very limited number of games where he had done exceptionally well and become a hero (as he was already).  Even more cynically if the club declines, Darren will take the bulk of the blame, even though the most pressing problem we have is lack of personnel in key areas- defence in particular.  Second comment is that he is growing into Management as Friday's match showed- he noted the gaps in the blades play and exploited them in the second half, he motivated our team to come out and play on a cold night in December in Sheffield.  I am also going to argue that this is not an isolated case, I think he has done this in a number of matches and is getting better at it as well.  The limitation he has is that he has a really thin squad.  On balance I tend to agree that he was right not to bring on a sub on Friday, even though the team looked tired at times.  However, the challenge is who would he have brought on anyway, there are no real game changers on our bench, and limited coverage in a number of areas.  One or two injuries in the New Year and life will get even tougher.  We can and should go straight back up, but we will not unless we invest in 2-3 key players.  If Darren does not get to do this, it will not be his fault.

Offline frazzle

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2361 on: December 17, 2018, 02:13:52 PM »
I have kept quiet on this debate so far, but feel a need to comment having read the last couple of pages of this thread.  Firstly, on Darren's appointment I think this was quite cynical.  No real money sanctioned to be spent from above (and I do not think that any will be spent in January either), so the owners of the club played to the gallery and appointed Darren on the back of a very limited number of games where he had done exceptionally well and become a hero (as he was already).  Even more cynically if the club declines, Darren will take the bulk of the blame, even though the most pressing problem we have is lack of personnel in key areas- defence in particular.  Second comment is that he is growing into Management as Friday's match showed- he noted the gaps in the blades play and exploited them in the second half, he motivated our team to come out and play on a cold night in December in Sheffield.  I am also going to argue that this is not an isolated case, I think he has done this in a number of matches and is getting better at it as well.  The limitation he has is that he has a really thin squad.  On balance I tend to agree that he was right not to bring on a sub on Friday, even though the team looked tired at times.  However, the challenge is who would he have brought on anyway, there are no real game changers on our bench, and limited coverage in a number of areas.  One or two injuries in the New Year and life will get even tougher.  We can and should go straight back up, but we will not unless we invest in 2-3 key players.  If Darren does not get to do this, it will not be his fault.

Excellent post.

Offline Mikkyk

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2362 on: December 18, 2018, 01:22:35 PM »
I have kept quiet on this debate so far, but feel a need to comment having read the last couple of pages of this thread.  Firstly, on Darren's appointment I think this was quite cynical.  No real money sanctioned to be spent from above (and I do not think that any will be spent in January either), so the owners of the club played to the gallery and appointed Darren on the back of a very limited number of games where he had done exceptionally well and become a hero (as he was already).  Even more cynically if the club declines, Darren will take the bulk of the blame, even though the most pressing problem we have is lack of personnel in key areas- defence in particular.  Second comment is that he is growing into Management as Friday's match showed- he noted the gaps in the blades play and exploited them in the second half, he motivated our team to come out and play on a cold night in December in Sheffield.  I am also going to argue that this is not an isolated case, I think he has done this in a number of matches and is getting better at it as well.  The limitation he has is that he has a really thin squad.  On balance I tend to agree that he was right not to bring on a sub on Friday, even though the team looked tired at times.  However, the challenge is who would he have brought on anyway, there are no real game changers on our bench, and limited coverage in a number of areas.  One or two injuries in the New Year and life will get even tougher.  We can and should go straight back up, but we will not unless we invest in 2-3 key players.  If Darren does not get to do this, it will not be his fault.

I pretty much agree with everything in this post.

The only thing I would say would be that would a more experienced manager not know how to put slightly more pressure on the board to make sure some signings happen/more money is spent?

Offline seteefeet

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2363 on: December 18, 2018, 01:45:45 PM »
"See where we are at Christmas" seems to be a common benchmark so, how are we doing so far?

Sitting 3rd in the league
Guaranteed top 6 by Xmas whatever the results
Top goalscorers
2nd best goal difference
Above teams with bigger budgets and higher profile, experienced managers such as, Boro, Villa, Derby and Forest

All in all, I say a fantastic performance from a rookie manager. B+  Room for improvement but a sterling effort.

Offline Oldbury24

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2364 on: December 18, 2018, 03:08:31 PM »
I pretty much agree with everything in this post.

The only thing I would say would be that would a more experienced manager not know how to put slightly more pressure on the board to make sure some signings happen/more money is spent?

We have very recently had an experienced manager who was able to put pressure on the board! That didn't go so well in the end for anybody (particularly the Board).

I am more than happy for Darren to be working alongside the DoF and Chief Scout that are now in place, as that is the model that has served us well in the past.   You don't need a 6 figure salary to know where our weaknesses are, or the areas that need improving.  What you do need is a good scouting system to provide the manager with good options to choose from at the price we can afford.  Would be great to see us unearth another McCines, Dorrans (think Villa beat us to that one), Ollson, Mulumbu, Odemwengie or GMac to name a few.  Leftfield signings that have fitted into the Albion way and done us proud for minimal outlay. 



Offline ex coseley kid

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2365 on: December 18, 2018, 05:19:12 PM »
I'm pretty laissez faire about life and respect anyone's opinions...
BUT
Can't agree at all with anyone who doesn't admire everything DM has achieved and brought to us. This is a great season and I'm pretty sure we are ALL enjoying the ride... not even upset we're not top two, third is good for me as long as we are within reach.

I hope Big Dave reads this sometimes because I for one am really very grateful that we are fun to watch again. Thanks DM!!
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Offline gerry m

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2366 on: December 18, 2018, 05:26:11 PM »
I'm pretty laissez faire about life and respect anyone's opinions...
BUT
Can't agree at all with anyone who doesn't admire everything DM has achieved and brought to us. This is a great season and I'm pretty sure we are ALL enjoying the ride... not even upset we're not top two, third is good for me as long as we are within reach.

I hope Big Dave reads this sometimes because I for one am really very grateful that we are fun to watch again. Thanks DM!!

The negativity posts about him sadden me as like you i believe he is doing a good job, Lets get behind him and the players COYB.

Offline timdon

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2367 on: December 18, 2018, 07:17:09 PM »
I was bored stupid with the football under Pulis, and bored stupid and frustrated under the clueless one. Darren has reminded me how exciting football can be again, and I am back in love with the Albion. Every match so far (with the possible exception of Middlesboro) has been wonderful to watch and utterly unpredictable. Well done Darren. I wasn't sure that he was the right appointment but he has won me over. I think he is building something good. Personally (and I realise that I will probably get some stick for this, and understand why) I think we would probably benefit long term from another season in the Championship as I really don't think our squad is anywhere near Premiership level and, even with a few new signings, we would probably just come straight back down again.

Offline seteefeet

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2368 on: December 19, 2018, 09:01:55 AM »
I was bored stupid with the football under Pulis, and bored stupid and frustrated under the clueless one. Darren has reminded me how exciting football can be again, and I am back in love with the Albion. Every match so far (with the possible exception of Middlesboro) has been wonderful to watch and utterly unpredictable. Well done Darren. I wasn't sure that he was the right appointment but he has won me over. I think he is building something good. Personally (and I realise that I will probably get some stick for this, and understand why) I think we would probably benefit long term from another season in the Championship as I really don't think our squad is anywhere near Premiership level and, even with a few new signings, we would probably just come straight back down again.
Agree mate. Biggest concern for me is that promotion would mean a backwards step, in terms of the style of football, and the limitations in the squad and lack of real funding, would leave DM with no option but to apply a Pulis style of trying not to lose.
Another season in the Championship could give him chance to cement his style and supplement his squad.

Offline Sted1990

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2369 on: December 19, 2018, 10:10:34 AM »
Agree mate. Biggest concern for me is that promotion would mean a backwards step, in terms of the style of football, and the limitations in the squad and lack of real funding, would leave DM with no option but to apply a Pulis style of trying not to lose.
Another season in the Championship could give him chance to cement his style and supplement his squad.

I disagree. We have enough in our squad to compete with the bottom 5 of the prem and then with a few additions and better style of football we could push on and enjoy the prem more. 2 seasons in the champ can soon lead to 15 seasons, just ask Leeds, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday etc....let’s not take that risk

Offline timdon

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2370 on: December 19, 2018, 10:24:13 AM »
I disagree. We have enough in our squad to compete with the bottom 5 of the prem and then with a few additions and better style of football we could push on and enjoy the prem more. 2 seasons in the champ can soon lead to 15 seasons, just ask Leeds, Forest, Sheffield Wednesday etc....let’s not take that risk
If you discount the loan signings, no we don't, nothing like it. If you take out the loan signings, we would be down the other end of the Championship.

Offline Sted1990

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2371 on: December 19, 2018, 10:43:59 AM »
If you discount the loan signings, no we don't, nothing like it. If you take out the loan signings, we would be down the other end of the Championship.

On that basis we would have Rondón back, we would sign players though so why be scared and wait a season, it’s this season or bust for me, the club would cut costs dramatically with another season at this level and our chances of promotion would deminish

Offline Fritzl Palace

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2372 on: December 19, 2018, 10:49:03 AM »
I was bored stupid with the football under Pulis, and bored stupid and frustrated under the clueless one. Darren has reminded me how exciting football can be again, and I am back in love with the Albion. Every match so far (with the possible exception of Middlesboro) has been wonderful to watch and utterly unpredictable. Well done Darren. I wasn't sure that he was the right appointment but he has won me over. I think he is building something good. Personally (and I realise that I will probably get some stick for this, and understand why) I think we would probably benefit long term from another season in the Championship as I really don't think our squad is anywhere near Premiership level and, even with a few new signings, we would probably just come straight back down again.

I both agree entirely and disagree with the part I have bolded. I agree that our squad is nowhere near Premier League level, with me discounting Gayle and Barnes for that purpose who aren't ours, but another season in the Championship will do us no favours as the better players we do currently have that set our squad apart from Championship level (Dawson, Hegazy, Phillips etc) would all be picked off leaving us with a bang average squad as our owners will not invest. A season in the Premier League at least provides us with the big wedge of cash to be able to stay ahead of sides at this level.

Online TheJacko2000

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2373 on: December 19, 2018, 10:56:52 AM »
Also in assent. Another season at this level would be disastrous.
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Offline Sted1990

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Re: Darren Moore sacked
« Reply #2374 on: December 19, 2018, 11:05:17 AM »
Also in assent. Another season at this level would be disastrous.

Agreed. Have all these pro championship posters seen the Cardiff team that have a chance of survival, the prem isn’t that hard