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Author Topic: Guochuan Lai  (Read 1071154 times)

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Offline baggie82

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5925 on: May 25, 2019, 01:50:35 PM »
JP sold us to no investment GL for £175m and didn't even have the decency to pay back the £4m loan he took out of the club to increase his shareholding which made him an extra circa £25m by increasing his shareholding up to 88%, says a lot about the man. To make matters worse FOSUN had been looking at us but didn't want to pay a premium for a PL club and bought them lot for £75m instead. JP hoovering up as much money for himself as possible will define our club for decades. As a fan base we have every right to be furious about this.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 01:52:17 PM by baggie82 »

Offline EastYorksAlbion

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5926 on: May 25, 2019, 01:55:52 PM »
I would imagine most football club owners look at JP in awe, as he must be the only owner of any football club to have actually made himself any money, never mind the fortune he made.

Offline Aztech

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5927 on: May 26, 2019, 08:46:58 AM »
I’m beginning to think Guochuan Lai is in fact an employee of Fosun.
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Offline hardtobeat

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5928 on: May 26, 2019, 09:40:06 AM »
The holding company had a loan from the football club of £3.7 million ish.

Interest on the loan means that the holding company now owes the football club £4.1 million and counting.

It's up to the football club to call in the loan (a loan that's getting more valuable year on year).

What would you do?.
Surely if the football club is having to take out a loan assumedly at worse rates , just to get by then it has to call the loan in by not doing so I can only conclude there is no intention of loan being paid back without costly litigation
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Offline baggiejohn

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5929 on: May 26, 2019, 10:48:37 AM »
Surely if the football club is having to take out a loan assumedly at worse rates , just to get by then it has to call the loan in by not doing so I can only conclude there is no intention of loan being paid back without costly litigation

I got it wrong, it's not the holding company, it's WBA Group who owe the money to WBAFC, allegedly taken out by JP to increase his share holding to 88%.

This is the condition of the loan as defined in 2018 Accounts
Quote
Amounts owed by group undertakings to the Group are unsecured, payable on demand & accrue interest at the Bank of England base rate +5%

As I understand it, the overdraft facility was used only minimally in January, so I assume it was advantageous for the club not to recall the loan.

Not your point, I know, but I assume JP must have made GL aware of the loan, during discussions to sell the club. I also assume that GL would have been given the option to keep it in place or make it good at the point of sale. I would have to assume then, that there was a financial advantage for all parties to keep the loan in place.

If it was easy, it wouldn't be Albion

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Offline baggie82

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5930 on: May 26, 2019, 01:23:31 PM »
I would have to assume then, that there was a financial advantage for all parties to keep the loan in place.

Financially advantageous for JP and GL not for WBAFC. GL is never going to decide to call the loan in on himself so it will remain outstanding until kingdom come, and never get paid back. The club can show the loan as an asset on the accounts but physically doesn't have the money to spend or invest.

Offline baggiejohn

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5931 on: May 26, 2019, 01:46:00 PM »
Financially advantageous for JP and GL not for WBAFC. GL is never going to decide to call the loan in on himself so it will remain outstanding until kingdom come, and never get paid back. The club can show the loan as an asset on the accounts but physically doesn't have the money to spend or invest.

Once the sale had taken place, I'm not sure how it could have advantaged JP.
I'm not particularly well versed in advanced financial affairs, but I can only assume that there must be some tax advantages.
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Offline Mr Cynical

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5932 on: May 26, 2019, 02:54:36 PM »
This just makes me really angry about Peace.  Everything that happened to WBA under his watch was just a side effect of him maximising the value of his asset.  That's what it was all about!

I also have a recollection that one of the companies in the Group holds some money that was transfered shortly before the sale in order to ensure that there were funds available should we want to pay the shareholders a dividend for the year that Peace sold.  Is that right?  Is it still just sitting there?

One other thing.  Everyone must remember the articles that Jenkins wrote about how poor we were and how badly we had been run?  (He was only implying this happened in the 18 months he wasn't there, but clearly he was being very generous to himself.)  Well in amongst that story from the E&S and Chris L's comments Matt Wilson said:

Matt Wilson
‏Verified account @mattwilson_star
Replying to @Worto

yes, although I believe they never actually went into that overdraft. It gave them wiggle room in the January window.


So, it appears that we didn't utilise the overdraft that he kicked up that major fuss about us needing.  It was obviously more important not to use it than to pay an actual manager to come in an push us over the line to promotion!

Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5933 on: May 26, 2019, 03:58:34 PM »
English Football League: Clubs 'reliant on owners', says EFL chief

This clearly doesn’t apply to us

Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48412747?ocid=socialflow_twitter&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=twitter
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Offline Albionic

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5934 on: May 26, 2019, 04:35:42 PM »
This smacks to me of the establishment trying to quell inter-club disputes by focussing upon the “value” of chairmen to the current in-sustainable model. Which if correct suggests that the wheels are getting wobbly if not falling off yet!
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Offline Standaman

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5935 on: May 27, 2019, 08:57:41 AM »
"Fans not happy about the investment that is going into their club. Trust me, without them [the owners], they wouldn't have a club."

This is true of most EFL clubs. Basically we have a model which relies on rich people to subsidise football clubs (please don't use the word invest because that implies there is a potential financial return, generally there isn't). FFP is a fairly clumsy attempt to regulate this but it cannot overcome the basic problem that EFL football clubs need rich people to subsidise them to survive. When a club runs out of rich people prepared to subsidise it they go broke like Bolton. Eventually all clubs will run out of rich people prepared to subsidise them and they will all go broke.

However this is a very slow process and football will continue to eat money and fans will continue to demand more money to feed the beast until it runs out.

The reality is that there about 40 odd clubs that could be self sustaining in the Premier League maybe more only the real minnows like Accrington Forest Green and Morecombe might struggle but even that might not be impossible the impossibility is getting there. However only 20 are in the Premier League and 3 are kicked out every year leaving about 20 clubs with a taste for Champange but a Cider budget.

Without completely restructring the games finances and some fairly radical changes from the football authorities there is no chance football will get it's collective act together anytime soon, expect more of the same.


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Offline MICKYMEL

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5936 on: May 27, 2019, 08:50:29 PM »
Until lai goes we will struggle.

Villa with Lerner, wolves with moxey.

Now both clubs have mega owners.

We need to get lucky and hope another one comes along otherwise we cannot compete
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5937 on: May 27, 2019, 09:19:40 PM »
Until lai goes we will struggle.

Villa with Lerner, wolves with moxey.

Now both clubs have mega owners.

We need to get lucky and hope another one comes along otherwise we cannot compete

For clarity, Moxey wasn’t the owner, Steve Morgan was, but you make a valid point
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Offline gazberg

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5938 on: May 27, 2019, 09:23:37 PM »
Don't really want to get into it too much but a few pages back i asked if anyone remembered a poster called Steven or something like that who used to be on here and seemed accurate with his news of transfers etc but he left here but he is on Twitter still and claims Lai is a stubborn fool who will not sell. He also said Lai has no interest now we are not in the PL although we all know that. WIsh i had saved it, was a conversation between him and Matt Wilson from the E+S.

Offline AlbionBest

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5939 on: May 27, 2019, 09:43:32 PM »
Until lai goes we will struggle.

Villa with Lerner, wolves with moxey.

Now both clubs have mega owners.

We need to get lucky and hope another one comes along otherwise we cannot compete

BUT, at least Lerner and Morgan poured considerable cash into the clubs before stopping the finance.

Our clown hasn't put a bean into the Club! Typical.
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Offline gazberg

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5940 on: May 27, 2019, 09:47:19 PM »
Must have lost £5m on the chinese wonderkid he paid for out his own pockets. Must have scared him off once he realised how clueless he is.

Offline Standaman

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5941 on: May 27, 2019, 10:49:37 PM »
BUT, at least Lerner and Morgan poured considerable cash into the clubs before stopping the finance.

Our clown hasn't put a bean into the Club! Typical.

This is the problem with the benefactor model eventually they all stop because frankly they get tired of putting money in and getting the square route of nothing back, and the club is dependent on the money the fall is almost greater had there never been any money at all.

To justify the money Lerner put into Villa they would have had to qualify for Champions League football on a regular basis and even then he probably wouldn't have got a cent back on his "investment"

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Offline WBAinDEVON

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5942 on: May 28, 2019, 07:57:17 AM »
needs to sell up and cut his losses and if we dont get the right head coach in now, this very minute i can see us going down.
Them seals going up has certainly twisted the knife. As soon as we get an owner who shows interest then i might come back
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 08:02:10 AM by WBAinDEVON »
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Offline AlbionFan

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5943 on: May 28, 2019, 08:00:56 AM »
Does Sheikh Mansour have another cousin?
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Offline dangerman

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5944 on: May 28, 2019, 08:07:41 AM »
needs to sell up and cut his losses and if we dont get the right head coach in now, this very minute i can see us going down.

What are the current odds on relegation next season. Might be worth £20 to ease the pain?  :o ;D

Offline Atomic

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5945 on: May 28, 2019, 08:07:57 AM »
needs to sell up and cut his losses and if we dont get the right head coach in now, this very minute i can see us going down.
Them seals going up has certainly twisted the knife. As soon as we get an owner who shows interest then i might come back


Not being funny mate but I'm getting a bit sick of you going on about "not going" till this and "not going" till that. It's the club you are supposed to support not the owners. Up's and down's are part of football and for all the temporary "Success" the likes of Villa and Wolves are very much in the same boat as us - either trying to survive in the Premier League or trying to get back into it.

How about supporting the team?

No?

Offline KN22

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5946 on: May 28, 2019, 08:30:40 AM »

Not being funny mate but I'm getting a bit sick of you going on about "not going" till this and "not going" till that. It's the club you are supposed to support not the owners. Up's and down's are part of football and for all the temporary "Success" the likes of Villa and Wolves are very much in the same boat as us - either trying to survive in the Premier League or trying to get back into it.

How about supporting the team?

No?

Totally agree. Yes we are frustrated but it does not affect my love of the club one iota.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2019, 08:35:59 AM by Hull Baggie »

Offline WBAinDEVON

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5947 on: May 28, 2019, 08:35:30 AM »

Not being funny mate but I'm getting a bit sick of you going on about "not going" till this and "not going" till that. It's the club you are supposed to support not the owners. Up's and down's are part of football and for all the temporary "Success" the likes of Villa and Wolves are very much in the same boat as us - either trying to survive in the Premier League or trying to get back into it.

How about supporting the team?

No?


couldnt give a too hoots what you think really. my predictions are normally correct. i will continue to follow the Albion from my armchair untill we see some leadership
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Offline OldburyWBA

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5948 on: May 28, 2019, 10:39:33 AM »
Cut the personal stuff, getting past a joke with people jumping on others for not doing the same as them lately, whether thats going to games or not for example. People have a choice, respect their decision.

This is a place for people to moan, not moan, whatever.


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Offline LiamTheBaggie

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Re: Guochuan Lai
« Reply #5949 on: May 28, 2019, 01:12:05 PM »
The whole thing just stinks of self interest and self gain to be honest.

It probably does not take a genius to work out why the loan was taken out in the first place - that individual has now sailed into the sunset on a bed of millions whilst we slum it out in the Championship. I don't blame Peace for our fall from grace as it was largely not under his premiership, but his last parting gift to us was John Williams who single handedly ruined the club.

My annoyance now, is the club constantly preach about not having a pot to **** in. They have thrown forward an earlier demand for season ticket monies, they have thrown out the kits prior to the season end to try and ascertain more monies from its supporters as our revenues streams to decrease.

The club throw out lines regarding redundancies to employees as a reason for not signing a striker who if given the service could take us back to the mega riches that is required by those at the top.

Meanwhile, the football club is owed £4million. That £4million could prevent the job losses, safeguard the futures of those who give a service to the club. Hell, it might even cover us for a successful summer recruitment. Or the appointment of a manager. Meanwhile, our faceless ownership whom posses millions continue to keep those essential funds away from the club.

Jenkins is here for one reason - and it is nothing to do with us. Cut costs & save money. And we'll suck it up as usual.
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