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Messages - baggiebof

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West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: System / Tactics / Personnel
« on: June 27, 2020, 11:13:13 PM »
I'm not saying he can't but I don't understand why people think Robinson could play up front as a lone striker for us? He played on the left wing for Preston and as the deeper of two centre forwards for Sheffield United (unsuccessfully arguably). Our game requires the striker to.hold the ball and link the play, I just don't see Robinson as that man. I do get the desperation as we do not have good options but in terms of profile, Robson-Kanu suits us the best out of the admittedly weak options.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: System / Tactics / Personnel
« on: June 27, 2020, 07:58:30 AM »
I think our issues still resolve the centre of midfield as they have done in recent seasons, we are better in this area this year but I am not sure it's right still.

If we play Sawyers as a deep lying playmaker and not a number 8 then he is probably most effective in a midfield 3 as he is weak defensively and in a 4231 the space either side of the midfield 2 exposes this. Livermore isn't a monster off the ball so doesnt cover his defienecies in this area. My thoughts for the long term are, is Sawyers good enough for us to build our midfield around? I thought yes earlier in the season but am unsure now.

Livermore isn't a specialist in any area so the 3 suits him as he can be an all-rounder of sorts and go box to box but of course we need more going forward and in the league above would need a ball winner to compliment Sawyers.

I'd be tempted to try a 433 with a folding midfielder, think it has to be Livermore as Barry can't move and Harper is a more offensive midfield player and play Sawyers and Krovinovic as two 8s, a little how City use Silva and De Bruyne. It may help us creatively, which we are currently lacking but I thing big question marks over Livermore as the holder and teams will be able to disrupt our play higher up the field as Livernore isn't that good on the ball, we would likely have to feed Krovinovic and Sawyers from full back or direct from cbs.

Albion Matchday Forum / Re: After Match Debate
« on: June 27, 2020, 07:41:46 AM »
For my money, Brentford and Leeds are the best two sides in the division and Brentford were excellent without the ball against us yesterday. They got men behind the ball and congested the space in between the lines forcing Pereira deep at times and without him in dangerous positions we didnt really offer anything. Teams have realised that and we have to find a way though it. The 433 did help pre lockdown as Pereira started wide, making him harder to pick up and allowed us to get Krovinovic in the side deeper meaning there was creativity there too.

We do look like we lack confidence and I think I would be looking to change personnel on the back of that. Unfortunately all our striking options are poor, I think Robson-Kanu offers the most so I'd stick with him but I would be happy to see a Grosicki or Edwards start the next game, they havent started recently so will bring a desperation to prove a point hopefully. I would definitely bring Krovinovic back in and would be tempted with Harper - unlike others on this thread I think he has a really good skill set, I'm just not sure he has the experience yet and therefore looks lost in games sometimes however starting may give him time to settle into a game. Surprised at the Gibbs comments, I thought he looked fine and I'm not convinced O'Shea is a better option than Furlong but I am convinced we would need to upgrade from Furlong starting if we got promoted.

General Football & Sports / Re: Steven Gerrard
« on: May 01, 2020, 12:02:05 PM »
I disagree with you Baggies, I thought Gerrard was genuinely terrific. Agree regards intricate play to an extent but I think this came to Gerrard later under Rafa when he started playing in behind Torres.

With the England career, I think there are many factors from club rivalry (touched upon by Gerdinand in a BT Sport interview, poor tactical setups by managers and perhaps a misremembering of his career for England which was good, if not reaching the same heights as his club career.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Rekeem Harper
« on: March 04, 2020, 01:47:03 PM »
I have two issues with him. His apparent lack of stamina and his unwillingness to recover the ball when he loses possession.
Far from being the finished article, whether we get to see that here or if he has to move away, I'm not syre

I think I know what you mean regarding recovering the ball as he is a little like Brunt, he shows his frustration/disappointment on the pitch with his body language, however this maybe leads to a slight misinterpretation. Looking at the last 3 games, although a small sample, his tackling stats (according to are fine:

WBA v PNE - 1 tackle
WBA v WA - 3 tackles (2nd most in game and got hooked early)
WBA v NU - 2 tackles (same as other midfielders Brunt and Barry)

The above suggests that he does win the ball enough and as mentioned, I think he is a more offensive minded midfielder in any case.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Rekeem Harper
« on: March 04, 2020, 11:33:50 AM »
In my opinion, Harper is another Leko, lazy and over-hyped. His lack of stamina is shocking and he should be nowhere near the first team. If this was a signing and not 'one of our own' the patience would have worn thin a long time ago.

I think if we had signed him as an 18-year old and he scored away at Villa Park and contributed as he did last year and then didn't get the opportunities this year, we would be clamouring for him to play more.

Regarding Leko, it's interesting that prior to his injury he was having a decent season at Charlton - perhaps we don't have enough patience as fans?

If we are comparing the two, I think Harper is streets ahead; his ball control, passing range and something that I think really separates good players from others is an appreciation of the pace of a pass, which are all good. I rate him highly, I of course could be proven wrong, but I think he is the most promising youngster we've produced since Berahino. I understand that I'm putting my neck on the line with this view!

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Rekeem Harper
« on: March 04, 2020, 10:51:35 AM »
There's been a lot of talk about Harper on the After Match Debate thread so thought i'd bring the debate here instead...

I think Harper has got the potential to be a top player; he can dribble, he can shoot, he can pass with good quality long and short too. I also think his positional play has improved from last year in terms of when to lay it off and sit deep and when to try and go to join or go beyond the strikers. He could be more tenacious in pressing off the ball and needs to improve his stamina, he has a large frame so hopefully that will come as he continues to mature and get stronger.

I think his best position is actually the one Krovinovic occupies, the more offensive of the three but I could be proven wrong longer term as he is quite adept and driving with the ball from deep. Some of the criticism of him comes from his languid style which I think is unfair, it looks to me like he does put the yards in. Personally, I would be happy with him playing regularly for us next season in either division.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Kyle Edwards - a star in the making?
« on: March 04, 2020, 09:21:22 AM »
He is obviously talented and is getting better but as others have pointed out, can be loose in possession and isn't always switched on when pressing the ball, he gets back into position but doesn't pick up on a misplaced pass as an opportunity to press.

If we don't go up, he stays as he can definitely contribute and costs will need to be cut so he is of more value. If we do go up, he would be able to contribute but in my eyes he absolutely must go on loan to the Championship and play regularly. We have Grosicki, Phillips and Pereira (soon) committed as wingers for next season. We would need another starter and then get Edwards out on loan to be ready to be a main contributor the season after. It would mean a Leko, another youth player or even a loan being fifth choice, when back from injury but necessary as short-term pain would be long term gain as Edwards would hopefully return ready to be a regular starter in the Prem.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Kenneth Zohore
« on: March 04, 2020, 09:14:14 AM »
In some ways he is a better option than Austin as he offers the threat of running in behind and running the channels however he isn't as good a finisher as Austin nor does he link the play as well. Neither offer us what Robson-Kanu offers so neither is really an adequate like for like replacement.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Jonathan Bond
« on: March 04, 2020, 09:11:09 AM »
there’s a reason why at his age he’s always been a back up keeper.

Miles behind Johnstone and shouldn’t be starting at all in the league or cups.

I agree with this to an extent and remember, Bond came in as a third choice keeper initially. I do think it is harsh to say he shouldn't be starting any game for us, before tonight he hasn't let us down and may have improved in his time with us. The overall point is correct though, as much as Johnstone is open to criticism, the clamour for Bond to start when looking at his career was weird I always felt.

As others have said, much better playing as the most advanced in a central three. Also worth pointing out that the first part of this season was his first proper run of games since his ACL injury; for a player that twists, turns and drives forward, it is not surprising that it has taken him a little longer to get to top form.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Kenneth Zohore
« on: February 28, 2020, 10:19:19 AM »
I thought the same before we signed him but it is clear that he is not a target man, people just expect this due to his physique. He likes to run in behind or go wide in space to pick up the ball to run at goal. That is half of what we require from our front man, we require somebody who can be a target and hold it whilst linking the play. He is probably more effective in a counter attacking team I'd suggest.

Albion Matchday Forum / Re: Pre Match Chat
« on: February 27, 2020, 10:27:30 AM »
We are getting to the run in now, teams at the bottom are just as difficult a game as teams at the top in terms of motivation. It's the mid-table plodders you want at this time of the year as we know ourselves from being mid-table plodders at the end of each Pulis season.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Ahmed Hegazi
« on: February 25, 2020, 11:57:10 PM »
Watching the game tonight I wonder if anyone has told Ahmed that Pulis has gone and he can play it on the ground. He's always looking for the long punt 🙄

I think without Sawyers we deliberately had a more direct approach tonight. To be fair to Hegazi, although he sometimes appears cumbersome on the ball, he is a decent passer from the back.

The only thing with Sawyer's which may benefit us is his tendancy to turn back when a forward pass is possible, playing forward more quickly may pay dividends.

I think this is harsh. As per this on twitter Sawyers plays more passes into the final third per 90 mins than all but 4 other midfielders. I do take the point however that a contributing factor is our style of play, the fact we have players available to receive those passes and that we have more possession than a lot of teams. However it still proves to me that Sawyers progresses the play plenty and is a vital cog for us.

Interestingly, Livermore plays a high amount of passes into the final third too; I wonder if this will skew more in Sawyers' favour since Livermore is playing further forward.

Brunt is an awful idea.  No pace, no mobility, won't get forward, easily ran past, won't tackle.

I wouldn't disagree that Brunt lacks pace, won't get forward and isn't great defensively however as others have mentioned, the same can be applied to Sawyers. The role is to get on the ball, dictate play and progress the ball into the final third of the pitch - all which Brunt can do.

I think that Livermore and Sawyers are unique in the squad as regards the ability to support the 4-2-3-1 formation. 

We aren't playing a 4231, certainly not in possession of the ball, it is a 433 with the centre of the 3 being a deep-lying playmaker.

Livermore tucked in but to the right of the three is playing the role of an all-rounder, a box to box midfielder responsible for winning tackles and getting forward whilst Krovinovic is to the left and more advanced, breaking the lines by going past players and linking with the front three. I think Harper could probably do the Krovinovic role and perhaps the Livermore role although he perhaps doesn't win enough challenges. Not sure anyone else in the squad could fulfil the Livermore role, Barry maybe more 20/30 minutes but that's about it.

Sawyers is playing as a deep lying playmaker; the most like for like replacements are Brunt and then Barry, in that order.

I would very much like to see Harper get minutes but he's more of a replacement for Krovinovic or Livermore in terms of what he brings to the midfield.

General Football & Sports / Re: Salomon Rondon joins Dalian Yifang
« on: February 20, 2020, 12:30:20 PM »
Athletic Article on Rondon.

Unsurprisingly, focuses on Newcastle rather than us. Bit of a disappointing read for me overall, hopefully its just journalistic editing, but little old Albion seem to be a footnote in the career of Toon Legend, Rondon.  >:(

To be fair, the article is conducted by The Athletic's Newcastle United correspondent so it isn't a surprise that they focus on his time there.

Albion Matchday Forum / Re: Don Goodman commentary
« on: February 17, 2020, 03:41:12 PM »
I remember thinking after the play-off games in 2007 that Goodman was biased against us in favour of Wolves but I've seen plenty of games in the last couple of years where he appears bias in our favour; I have come to the conclusion that he probably calls it as he sees it and just sometimes sees things differently to me. I think sometimes he starts on a particular thread or train of thought in a match and sometimes sees what matches that narrative instead of maybe what's happening, we all do it sometimes.

Regards his words having an effect on bans and so on, it is the editor/producer who organises the replays, he just comments on what he sees so don't think it is right to blame him for that.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Kyle Bartley
« on: February 16, 2020, 08:07:47 AM »
Much like Livermore, Bartley is having a good season and certainly better than last season! Like all players he has his faults, he has more.than others but like Livernore he appears key to our side regards leadership and character. Even though I'd rather see Hegazi in there as I believe he is a better defender, i'm happy with Bsrtley in the side. Of course, I us to upgrade him if we were to get promoted.

Regards the OG yesterday, no blame heading his way from me, I actually blame Ajayi. Why on earth was he so far wide? He should have been central with Bartley, with him in there the cross simply isn't on.

Albion Matchday Forum / Re: After Match Debate
« on: February 13, 2020, 11:53:59 AM »

Yep we've gone 4-3-3.

I'm not sure the inverted wingers thing is totally accurate although both our wide men can play like that. Pereira starts on the right but naturally drifts inside into pockets and is causing defenders all sorts of problems. Just behind him and inside him he has Livermore who is looking much more box to box than we're used to seeing him. O'Shea does get forward in support but is much more disciplined than Furlong.

On the left Robinson is more of a winger than Pereira and will go on the outside more often. This allows Krovinovic inside him space to link up in and around the box. Earlier in the season we wouldn't shoot, kept going side to side, trying to walk the ball in, now we shoot anywhere around the box. Robson-Kanu links the play from either side and works the centre backs to death. Sawyers sits in the middle between Jake and Krov and conducts the orchestra.

Thanks Atomic, much appreciated.

It feels like teams might try and suffocate our left flank and central areas leaving O'Shea as the spare man but on those occasions we have Furlong who is much better on the ball or can switch the balance by putting a more natural right wide player out there like Phillips. It's been clear all season but our style is much more suited to a mobile centre forward, which is why Robson-Kanu is currently in possession of the shirt. No surprise that Krovinovic looks better playing slightly deeper; he isn't quite potent enough as a 10 but is wasted as a deep lying playmaker so the current style suits him much more.

Albion Matchday Forum / Re: After Match Debate
« on: February 13, 2020, 10:43:07 AM »
In the context of the other results, last night's win feels even better. I haven't been to or seen any of the last two games but have seen it written that we have shifted to a 433 with Krovinovic to the left and Livermore to the right of Sawyers, could someone confirm and break it down a little for me? With Pereira and Robinson out wide but both inverted wingers, I expect they pick up fairly central areas and whilst Townsend naturally gets forward left, this isn't O'Shea's natural game, do we still have width out wide?

This could be one for the systems, tactics, personnel thread instead - happy for this to be moved if better placed there.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Filip Krovinovic (on loan from Benfica)
« on: February 09, 2020, 10:16:59 PM »
Has reminded me of Koren since he signed who himself signed in the January and showed his best from after the initial 6 months; hopefully Krovinovic will have a great second half of the season.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Callum Robinson (on loan from Sheff. Utd.)
« on: February 02, 2020, 10:29:36 AM »
Would have been better if we had signed him at the start of Jan instead at the end.

I think the FA Cup hinders attempts to sign PL fringe players, the PL club wants to hang on to them to get through 4th and 5th rounds.

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Nathan Ferguson
« on: February 01, 2020, 08:14:16 AM »
I feel bad for the lad, set for a big move and only to be let down by your body, something professionals will just take for granted. I haven't seen him throw his toys out of the pram, I'd say he applied himself at Cardiff the other night. Difficult for him now with the crowd.

Hopefully he reacts in a positive way and gets his head down to help his boyhood club get promoted and then we take it from there in the summer.

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