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Off Topic => Non Sports/ Non Politics Board => Topic started by: BB74 on February 18, 2019, 09:16:14 AM

Title: Shamima Begum
Post by: BB74 on February 18, 2019, 09:16:14 AM
One of the three Bethnal Green school girls who ran away to ISIS now wants to come ‘home’. What do we do?

The usual answer is revoke her passport- this simply isn’t possible due to the fact that International, EU and British Laws say we can’t render anyone stateless. If she had dual nationality then fine, but she doesn’t.

Senior figures are even saying if Begum gets to an Embassy/Consulate she will be assisted back to the UK.

I would just completely ignore her pleas but somehow I think because she left at the age of 15 she will be back here by the summer.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: ex coseley kid on February 18, 2019, 10:01:44 AM
It staggers me that - and this has been pointed out before - there are rumblings of 'everyone deserves a second chance' with this individual, placed alongside the image of Liam Neeson and the statement 'he should never work in Hollywood again'.

Funny thing perspective.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: tommcneill on February 18, 2019, 10:28:16 AM
No remorse from her, no regret either, no denoucning, not fazed by beheadings. Says there is no evidence of her doing anything bad, but she doesnt say she is sorry for what happened, probably because she isnt. She has lost a baby already and wasnt asking to come home when she thought they were winning in Syria, now they are defeated and she is in a camp she wants to come home.

If she is allowed back in then there is going be uproar and revenge attacks against her and the family. Best she stays where she is becuase I for one do not want her back in this country
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: caravanc58 on February 18, 2019, 10:30:39 AM
if she returns and goes through the process of investigation of terrorism I've no problem with that but you know damn well she'll end up on benefits with a council property and all the help needed.
has she committed treason?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 18, 2019, 10:57:33 AM
If she was allowed back into the country, I would imagine, she would then try to force our government to get her husband out of jail and bring him in because he is the father of her "British" child.
I just hope that we don't open up a can of worms.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 18, 2019, 11:00:47 AM
Saw something yesterday which is spot on.

You can go to a football match, getting a banning order without having a conviction and have to hand your passport in everytime there's a game abroad but you can go to Syria, fight for ISIS and come home with a clear name
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 18, 2019, 11:11:42 AM
I believe whatever the relationship, wife and husband, work colleagues, mates, priest and parishioners, country and citizens, once the trust has been broken it can never be again what it was.

Admitted she was only 15 years old when she left and a very intelligent one as I understand it, so she was aware of what she was getting herself into.

She has, no doubt, witnessed and maybe even at some level added and abetted some grotesque forms of terrorism perpetrated on innocent victims. She is now 19 years old and has broken, for me, a sacred trust between country and citizen, one could suggest she is guilty of High Treason, the punishment, if found guilty, is life imprisonment.

It is not clear whether she has duel nationality, if she has, her citizenship of the UK should be withdrawn, in that way we would not be breaking international law by making her stateless. And it would be someone else’s problem.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Albionic on February 18, 2019, 11:53:24 AM
If law dictates we have to let her back in, so be it, she should the face the full weight of the law BUT there is absolutely no way we should aid her in getting back here.

The kid is the one I do feel sorry for as she is not fit to raise a child with her beliefs / ideology!
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: mikehy on February 18, 2019, 11:55:27 AM
Bring her back and hang her
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Albionic on February 18, 2019, 11:59:51 AM
Bring her back and hang her

does treason still allow for the death penalty?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: SmethDan on February 18, 2019, 12:40:08 PM
I don't know whether anyone's come across it yet but there's a 'little' petition thingy in relation to this going on at the mo' on the UK Government and Parliament site. The petition target was for 100,000 signatures. It currently totals over 413,000 and is also rather conveniently linked below for those who'd like to sign it. Might come to something, might not. Worth a go for those who'd like their feelings to be known though.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/231521
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Albionic on February 18, 2019, 12:48:37 PM
I don't know whether anyone's come across it yet but there's a 'little' petition thingy in relation to this going on at the mo' on the UK Government and Parliament site. The petition target was for 100,000 signatures. It currently totals over 413,000 and is also rather conveniently linked below for those who'd like to sign it. Might come to something, might not. Worth a go for those who'd like their feelings to be known though.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/231521

The vile must have put me in a really good mood, on another thread i gave TP credit, now I'm going to give the legal beagles some credit!!

As i see it, the statement from the Government makes perfect sense and they should be applauded for it, I will sign the petition to voice my concern over letting the terrorists (for that is what they are) back, but I don't think any change in the law is necessary.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Barrington on February 18, 2019, 12:49:21 PM
This whole situation will go on to prove again how soft British justice is in 2019.

She will be back here within months as the law states that she has the right to return. Not a lot you can do about that, lawfully.

Then she will be back and have an army of do-gooders, human rights lawyers and this barrister who has already piped up on her behalf using every trick in the book to claim how innocent she is. It'll be that she was too young to make the decision to go out there sensibly, she was brainwashed, she needs to be home and at liberty to look after her child etc etc etc.

She'll probably end up not being imprisoned at all, or just receive a soft couple of years or something.

Following the legal stuff (including whatever sentence given) which will probably cost hundreds of thousands or maybe millions, she'll have to be given a new identity, housing, financial help etc costing this country even more. Then she'll just go on to live a pretty normal life in relative terms.

Just wait and see.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Albionic on February 18, 2019, 12:53:45 PM
This whole situation will go on to prove again how soft British justice is in 2019.

She will be back here within months as the law states that she has the right to return. Not a lot you can do about that, lawfully.

Then she will be back and have an army of do-gooders, human rights lawyers and this barrister who has already piped up on her behalf using every trick in the book to claim how innocent she is. It'll be that she was too young to make the decision to go out there sensibly, she was brainwashed, she needs to be home and at liberty to look after her child etc etc etc.

She'll probably end up not being imprisoned at all, or just receive a soft couple of years or something.

Following the legal stuff (including whatever sentence given) which will probably cost hundreds of thousands or maybe millions, she'll have to be given a new identity, housing, financial help etc costing this country even more. Then she'll just go on to live a pretty normal life in relative terms.

Just wait and see.

Its the legal parasites that are problem, not the law, there are some cases which are not worthy of a defence, this being one, and lawyers taking those cases should be dis-barred in my opinion.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 18, 2019, 01:25:19 PM
does treason still allow for the death penalty?

Under the law of the United Kingdom, high treason is the crime of disloyalty to the Crown.The last treason trial was that of William Joyce, "Lord Haw-Haw", who was executed by hanging in 1946. Since the Crime and Disorder Act 1998 became law, the maximum sentence for treason in the UK has been life imprisonment.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: The Black Pearl on February 18, 2019, 01:33:16 PM
It staggers me that - and this has been pointed out before - there are rumblings of 'everyone deserves a second chance' with this individual, placed alongside the image of Liam Neeson and the statement 'he should never work in Hollywood again'.

Funny thing perspective.

This is what you get with our liberal left led society, perspective would be a wonderful thing, unfortunately its all gone with the rise of the do gooders.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Foster#1 on February 18, 2019, 01:37:53 PM
She said she doesn't regret going and didn't mine seeing heads in bins.

we don't need her back. We already have "one" in Birmingham
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: tuamigos on February 18, 2019, 01:48:36 PM
Leave her where she is and her child.
If she's allowed back the secret service will be watching her and her sprog for the rest of their days.
Wouldn't that money be better spent trying to get our NHS into some sort of shape?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: wbastrollers on February 18, 2019, 02:10:04 PM
I just heard on one of the radio stations - that she does not possess a passport!? She came to Syria on her sisters?.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 18, 2019, 02:23:40 PM
I just heard on one of the radio stations - that she does not possess a passport!? She came to Syria on her sisters?.

If that is true, would that, technically, make her stateless? And as such, not our responsibility?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Barrington on February 18, 2019, 02:37:12 PM
No, it just means that they'll just knock her up a brand new passport and get it out to her, or probably require her to just get herself to a suitable embassy and prove who she is before they transport her home. Her family/lawyers will make sure people don't play silly beggars with her and pretend that they don't know who she is just because she isn't physically holding a passport.

Numerous cases of Brits being abroad on holiday and realizing they had someone elses passport or no passport at all, and miraculously they've all made it home.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 18, 2019, 02:47:54 PM
Just read that Angela Merkel is going to take back ISIS fighters.

The problem with that is, theoretically, because of Schengen, they will be able to travel between 26 countries without challenge.

The world has truly gone mad if this is correct
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on February 18, 2019, 02:51:27 PM
She shows no remorse and it is difficult to feel massive amounts of sympathy for her, even given she was 15 when she left the UK, and she has a small child.  I was involved in the 7 July bombings in London and I note that one of the spouses of those bombers (Samantha Lewthwaite), went on to kill many other innocent people despite initially claiming she had no knowledge of her husband's plans. If we must have her back (and I accept that the law is the law), we should be watching like a hawk.  And no I would not be risking foreign office staff on a flight to Syria to bring her a passport.  If she got out there under her own steam she can get back similarly. 
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: tuamigos on February 18, 2019, 02:59:42 PM
Just read that Angela Merkel is going to take back ISIS fighters.

The problem with that is, theoretically, because of Schengen, they will be able to travel between 26 countries without challenge.

The world has truly gone mad if this is correct

The same Merkel that opened the doors to let in migrants then promptly put the fences back up when she realised what a balls up she'd made
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on February 18, 2019, 03:17:17 PM
She will be back in the country before long, maybe the Intelligence Services will be watching her, but within a year she will probably be loaded, newspapers will fight to pay her a fortune for her inside story, then the book deal and the sympathetic Channel 4 documentary. Before you know it she will be presenting Loose Women and onto I”m A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here, though lets face it, that would be a cake walk for her!
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: gerry m on February 18, 2019, 03:23:49 PM
She does not like the horrible nasty camp where she is staying. Well boo hoo Shamima you made your bed go lie in it. You had your child that is you and your husbands responsibility to take care of it not ours. By the way where is her husband?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: johnny Cash on February 18, 2019, 03:35:30 PM
This whole situation will go on to prove again how soft British justice is in 2019.

She will be back here within months as the law states that she has the right to return. Not a lot you can do about that, lawfully.

Then she will be back and have an army of do-gooders, human rights lawyers and this barrister who has already piped up on her behalf using every trick in the book to claim how innocent she is. It'll be that she was too young to make the decision to go out there sensibly, she was brainwashed, she needs to be home and at liberty to look after her child etc etc etc.

She'll probably end up not being imprisoned at all, or just receive a soft couple of years or something.

Following the legal stuff (including whatever sentence given) which will probably cost hundreds of thousands or maybe millions, she'll have to be given a new identity, housing, financial help etc costing this country even more. Then she'll just go on to live a pretty normal life in relative terms.

Just wait and see.


Sadly I think you are probably be right, she has no remorse and no regret but the lawyers will coach her and you'll hear about a changed person in no time. We can only hope she goes on to have a normal life though. Absolutely no chance this country will lock her up for life if she does return. The tax payer will be left to foot this one way or another.

Personally, I don't think the prospect of her harming or her as a threat can ever be removed, and nobody deserves to be the result of the failed project to rehabilitate a person who has made the choices she has.  So I think parliament should do everything they can to stop her coming back. If it means trying to change laws, then at least try. If it means annoying a few countries.... well that is nothing new!

Perhaps the two Russians who wanted to see Salisbury cathedral fancy seeing Syria?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: kc56wba on February 18, 2019, 03:37:15 PM
She does not like the horrible nasty camp where she is staying. Well boo hoo Shamima you made your bed go lie in it. You had your child that is you and your husbands responsibility to take care of it not ours. By the way where is her husband?

That is a very good point Gerry m.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: SmethDan on February 18, 2019, 03:38:04 PM
She does not like the horrible nasty camp where she is staying. Well boo hoo Shamima you made your bed go lie in it. You had your child that is you and your husbands responsibility to take care of it not ours. By the way where is her husband?


His ‘whereabouts are unknown’ but he’s a Dutch national named Yago Riedjik. He’s been sentenced to six years in a Dutch prison in his absence. She’s reportedly named their son Jarrah after a Jihadi warlord famed for massacring Jews. Courtesy the Daily Mail and the Sun online.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: KYA on February 18, 2019, 04:04:54 PM
I can't cope with this story it staggers me that we could let them back into the country she has just named her son after Jerah an Islamic warlord who massacred infidels., just a good example of the sorry state this country has got itself into glad I won't be around to see the conclusion.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: The Black Pearl on February 18, 2019, 04:55:15 PM
She will be back in the country before long, maybe the Intelligence Services will be watching her, but within a year she will probably be loaded, newspapers will fight to pay her a fortune for her inside story, then the book deal and the sympathetic Channel 4 documentary. Before you know it she will be presenting Loose Women and onto I”m A Celebrity Get Me Out Of Here, though lets face it, that would be a cake walk for her!

Genius, made me laugh, unfortunately, probably true.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 18, 2019, 05:04:38 PM
The same Merkel that opened the doors to let in migrants then promptly put the fences back up when she realised what a balls up she'd made

Yep, that’s the one!
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Albion79 on February 18, 2019, 05:09:32 PM
No crime is acceptable but its not like she ran off to join a bunch of timeshare scammers or drug smugglers, she went to join a group whose aim is to kill innocent people in this country! (and elsewhere)

Some people dont deserve a second chance, she was mature enough to find out where she was going, what they do and then actually got there so the innocent naive teen thing doesnt wash, she knew exactly what she was doing and as others have said, doesnt appear to have any real remorse, she just wants an easy life now.

Sadly the PC brigade will start on about human rights (to me you give those rights up when you plan and intend mass murders of innocent people) and she will end up back here, a couple of staged media appearances where she is told what to say, she will apologise and say she had no idea what she was getting into, she will be funded lavishly with new identity, etc the attention will die down, she will be monitored but she will be allowed to live amongst the people who she intended on killing when she joined IS, its disgusting.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 18, 2019, 05:27:23 PM
She was asked this question in an Interview with Sky News

Did you know about beheddings and executions?

“Yes, but I was okay with that because it’s allowed under Islam”.

Well, the last time I enquired, it’s not allowed in the UK
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: gerry m on February 18, 2019, 06:03:03 PM

His ‘whereabouts are unknown’ but he’s a Dutch national named Yago Riedjik. He’s been sentenced to six years in a Dutch prison in his absence. She’s reportedly named their son Jarrah after a Jihadi warlord famed for massacring Jews. Courtesy the Daily Mail and the Sun online.

'She’s reportedly named their son Jarrah after a Jihadi warlord famed for massacring Jews'

And trying to play the innocent card!
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 18, 2019, 06:05:35 PM
She does not like the horrible nasty camp where she is staying. Well boo hoo Shamima you made your bed go lie in it. You had your child that is you and your husbands responsibility to take care of it not ours. By the way where is her husband?
I believe he is being held in a Kurdish prison.
Edit...Just found a link.
"Her husband, a Dutch convert to Islam, is thought to have surrendered to a group of Syrian fighters".
4 Paragraphs from the bottom.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47276572
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 18, 2019, 08:05:25 PM
Thinking further on this situation, if she is allowed to return home, I think it would cause unrest in her local and surrounding areas and would escalate into, well who knows what.

She would need to enter some kind of protection programme and have her identity changed, all at tax payers cost.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 18, 2019, 08:38:25 PM
Thinking further on this situation, if she is allowed to return home, I think it would cause unrest in her local and surrounding areas and would escalate into, well who knows what.

She would need to enter some kind of protection programme and have her identity changed, all at tax payers cost.


It works for child murderers, why not child terrorists? World is too soft, the UK especially, her thoughts on the Manchester bombings are sickening.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on February 18, 2019, 08:45:42 PM
Genius, made me laugh, unfortunately, probably true.

If she is lucky her series of I’m A Celebrity, will have as it’s annual washed up footballer, Saido Berahino, to provide a love interest. Before you know it they will be the new Posh and Becks.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 18, 2019, 09:06:13 PM
If she is lucky her series of I’m A Celebrity, will have as it’s annual washed up footballer, Saido Berahino, to provide a love interest. Before you know it they will be the new Posh and Becks.
With their attitudes, it will be Bosh and Pecks.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 18, 2019, 09:10:03 PM
Although it seems most on this board feel the same....Isn't this political and shouldn't be allowed?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 18, 2019, 09:22:40 PM
Although it seems most on this board feel the same....Isn't this political and shouldn't be allowed?


Everything is political,  this isn't overtly so however. More a current event.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 18, 2019, 09:46:06 PM
Although it seems most on this board feel the same....Isn't this political and shouldn't be allowed?

Its being watched, so far politics has not been mentioned and as long as it remains that way this will be left on.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: kc56wba on February 18, 2019, 10:09:53 PM
I for one don't want her back but you can bet your bottom dollar she will be allowed too under international law.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: BB74 on February 18, 2019, 11:59:00 PM
Although it seems most on this board feel the same....Isn't this political and shouldn't be allowed?

I don’t see what is political with the subject? It’s a major news events.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: baggieboyfred on February 19, 2019, 11:53:23 AM
if we can get out of allowing her to return to this country then we should but if not then as far as I am concerned she got herself over there without any help,  she will have to get herself back with no help whatsoever from any government agency.
if she does get back then she should be prosecuted her baby put into care as by her actions she has proved herself an unfit mother, it galls me of course that if she does get back that its going to cost us the taxpayer a small fortune to monitor her and of course the only winner in all of this will be her as she will be well looked after
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: tuamigos on February 19, 2019, 12:07:46 PM
If she has any sense she wouldn't want to come back somewhere where she's going to be looking over her shoulder for the rest of her life.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 19, 2019, 12:54:52 PM
She, nor her baby should be allowed to return to the country - her views on a variety of subjects are sickening.

She will no doubt be allowed to return - at which point she should be trialed and sent to prison and the child taken into care.

I'd also be keeping a close watch of her parents because I do not believe they are innocent in any of this either.

As for the story I read about her mental health issues and needing support? Well, tough.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: KYA on February 19, 2019, 01:07:12 PM
I don’t see what is political with the subject? It’s a major news events.
The politics is under the surface where it will stay and rightfully so.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 19, 2019, 01:07:42 PM
She has called her baby son, Jarrah, which means 'able fighter' or 'one who wounds' in Arabic.
 
The name is also linked to Abu Ubaidah ibn al-Jarrah, known for massacring Jews. Also a general from the early days of the Arab conquests chiefly famed for beating the crap out of infidels.

I cannot believe the brazenness of this woman appearing on National TV stations asking for sympathy and understanding.

I hope she has sympathy and understanding when we say “No Entry”
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: liverbaggie on February 19, 2019, 02:03:29 PM
Typical Sky trash.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: SmethDan on February 19, 2019, 02:24:33 PM
She has called her baby son, Jarrah, which means 'able fighter' or 'one who wounds' in Arabic.
 
The name is also linked to Abu Ubaidah ibn al-Jarrah, known for massacring Jews. Also a general from the early days of the Arab conquests chiefly famed for beating the crap out of infidels.

I cannot believe the brazenness of this woman appearing on National TV stations asking for sympathy and understanding.

I hope she has sympathy and understanding when we say “No Entry”

Oh I can.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: KYA on February 19, 2019, 06:45:26 PM
Going to have her British citizenship removed, happy days.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Atomic on February 19, 2019, 07:02:39 PM
Going to have her British citizenship removed, happy days.


I should think so as well. If that evil ***** was ever allowed to step foot back into this country it would've been an absolute outrage.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 19, 2019, 08:56:07 PM
The order removing her British citizenship has been made. UK officials are able to revoke Shamima Begum's citizenship because she is a British and Bangldeshi dual national.

I mentioned earlier I thought she had duel citizenship, pity that, not!
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: The Tank on February 19, 2019, 10:01:31 PM
The order removing her British citizenship has been made. UK officials are able to revoke Shamima Begum's citizenship because she is a British and Bangldeshi dual national.

I mentioned earlier I thought she had duel citizenship, pity that, not!

Duel sounds appropriate
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: lewisant on February 19, 2019, 10:34:18 PM
The absolute hoops my wife has had to jump through to secure an Aussie visa and to think somebody can do this and it's even a debate?!

some of the things i've heard about this are outrageous!
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 19, 2019, 10:51:34 PM
Laid to rest now..She is no longer British !
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: tuamigos on February 20, 2019, 07:02:31 AM
Laid to rest now..She is no longer British !

Until the legal people get hold of it!
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 20, 2019, 08:21:25 AM
Until the legal people get hold of it!
In between legal and people you should have added "pariahs".
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: tuamigos on February 20, 2019, 08:41:58 AM
In between legal and people you should have added "pariahs".

I was only using the term loosely when I said people
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: SmethDan on February 20, 2019, 09:10:13 AM
In between legal and people you should have added "pariahs".

In a similar theme to Tuamigos I was thinking of a term somewhat stronger than pariahs..........
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on February 20, 2019, 09:37:47 AM
As I have said before, she will end up a rich young woman. The human rights lawyers will get to work on this and she will be turned into a victim.  Newspaper exclusives,  book deals, sympathetic Channel 4 documentary, followed by Loose Women and I’m a Celebrity.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 20, 2019, 09:53:54 AM
It’s only just beginning

“The decision by Sajid Javid to strip ‘Jihadi Bride’ Shamima Begum of her British citizenship is sure to spark a protracted legal battle.  The Home Secretary and his Home Office lawyers are relying on the fact that Begum is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship (via her parents) to allow him to avoid international obligations not to leave any citizen stateless. But plenty of lawyers have declared that her potential Bangladeshi citizenship is not actual citizenship and therefore Javid has embarked on a legally dubious move.”
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 20, 2019, 09:55:54 AM
It’s only just beginning

“The decision by Sajid Javid to strip ‘Jihadi Bride’ Shamima Begum of her British citizenship is sure to spark a protracted legal battle.  The Home Secretary and his Home Office lawyers are relying on the fact that Begum is entitled to Bangladeshi citizenship (via her parents) to allow him to avoid international obligations not to leave any citizen stateless. But plenty of lawyers have declared that her potential Bangladeshi citizenship is not actual citizenship and therefore Javid has embarked on a legally dubious move.”
doesn’t help that supposedly the government has tried this (twice) and failed before this case as it sets the precedent going forward.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: 17GD on February 20, 2019, 11:52:24 AM
If she has any sense she wouldn't want to come back somewhere where she's going to be looking over her shoulder for the rest of her life.

She'd receive round the clock security, paid for by UK tax payers. That alone would cost millions each year, not to mention her lawyer, health care and benefits.

Let's face it, she would find it impossible to get a job, unless we take into account the money she'd make from papers and TV appearances.

The whole system is flawed and cannot be set staight.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: SmethDan on February 20, 2019, 02:01:07 PM
She'd receive round the clock security, paid for by UK tax payers. That alone would cost millions each year, not to mention her lawyer, health care and benefits.

Let's face it, she would find it impossible to get a job, unless we take into account the money she'd make from papers and TV appearances.

The whole system is flawed and cannot be set straight.

Pure speculation here. But any money she earned upon her return to the UK could pay for her education as a barrister, who then goes on to represent like minded people in the future. What a mindfk that would be  :-X .
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 20, 2019, 03:09:42 PM
Baby son of Shamima Begum, who left UK to join IS, could be granted UK citizenship says Home Secretary Sajid Javid - despite his mother being stripped of hers after asking to return to Britain.

Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 20, 2019, 03:21:35 PM
Pure speculation here. But any money she earned upon her return to the UK could pay for her education as a barrister, who then goes on to represent like minded people in the future. What a mindfk that would be  :-X .
people have been denied barrister opportunities due to driving offences... I don’t think “international terrorist” is going to be swept under the rug in her case.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Black Country Pride on February 20, 2019, 03:29:45 PM
Baby son of Shamima Begum, who left UK to join IS, could be granted UK citizenship says Home Secretary Sajid Javid - despite his mother being stripped of hers after asking to return to Britain.

Damn right too. Not the child's fault.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: SmethDan on February 20, 2019, 03:30:54 PM
people have been denied barrister opportunities due to driving offences... I don’t think “international terrorist” is going to be swept under the rug in her case.

Got no proof though innit bro'  ;) ?

Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: BB74 on February 20, 2019, 04:52:17 PM
She's started  ::)

Diane Abbott claims stripping jihadi teen Shamima Begum’s passport is a breach of her human rights


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8468136/diane-abbott-claims-stripping-jihadi-teen-shamima-begums-passport-is-a-breach-of-her-human-rights/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8468136/diane-abbott-claims-stripping-jihadi-teen-shamima-begums-passport-is-a-breach-of-her-human-rights/)
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: KYA on February 20, 2019, 04:55:50 PM
She's started  ::)

Diane Abbott claims stripping jihadi teen Shamima Begum’s passport is a breach of her human rights


https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8468136/diane-abbott-claims-stripping-jihadi-teen-shamima-begums-passport-is-a-breach-of-her-human-rights/ (https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/8468136/diane-abbott-claims-stripping-jihadi-teen-shamima-begums-passport-is-a-breach-of-her-human-rights/)
I knew it was only a matter of time before those of a liberal attitude sided with this terrorist what about our human rights.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 20, 2019, 09:58:12 PM
Bangladesh denies Islamic State schoolgirl Shamima Begum has dual nationality.
If this is the case, she is still British in the world's eye and we can't deprive her of her citizenship.  >:(

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-02-20/shamima-begum-shocked-as-itv-news-informs-her-home-office-has-revoked-her-british-citizenship/
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: liverbaggie on February 20, 2019, 10:15:44 PM
The clue is in her name,BEG UM.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 20, 2019, 10:32:10 PM
Bangladesh denies Islamic State schoolgirl Shamima Begum has dual nationality.
If this is the case, she is still British in the world's eye and we can't deprive her of her citizenship.  >:(

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-02-20/shamima-begum-shocked-as-itv-news-informs-her-home-office-has-revoked-her-british-citizenship/ (https://www.itv.com/news/2019-02-20/shamima-begum-shocked-as-itv-news-informs-her-home-office-has-revoked-her-british-citizenship/)


They obviously don't want her, but their law says differently, if she was over 21 we couldn't take this action, but she's not. It'll pass judicial review.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: tuamigos on February 21, 2019, 10:13:43 AM
Damn right too. Not the child's fault.

No PLEASE!
So we get the kid over here and his mother is somewhere else.
He be looked after by jer relatives
Little Jarrah (remember from where his name derives) goes to school first day:

Mrs Cohen, his teacher says good morning Jarah. That's an interesting name how did that name come about?
 :-X :-X
Right Jarah is mommy picking you up from the gate?   :-X :-X
Where's daddy?  :-X :-X

The point I'm trying to make is the kid will have his head filled with all sorts of rubbish he'll be walking round with sticks of dynamite in his sandwich box before he leaves school.
He'll be told his father was a freedom fighter against the infidels, his mother was stripped of her citizenship by the country in which she was born.
What sort of future will that kid have and what is the potential risk?
The best place for him is with his mother and not here
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: timdon on February 21, 2019, 10:44:08 AM
Honestly, I fail to see how any rational discussion about this subject can take place without it becoming "political". Terrorism, war, denying or offering people British citizenship, it's all tied up with politics.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: BB74 on February 21, 2019, 10:48:35 AM
The child is Syrian. End of.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 21, 2019, 11:30:24 AM
Honestly, I fail to see how any rational discussion about this subject can take place without it becoming "political". Terrorism, war, denying or offering people British citizenship, it's all tied up with politics.

So far its been the sort of discussion we welcomed when we started the politics section. Unfortunately after a while they started turning personal, nasty, vindictive the lot hence why we stopped it plus there were members who were coming on purely for the politics section and no interest it seemed in the club related sections.

Maybe this one can be used as a testing ground for others.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 21, 2019, 12:35:34 PM
When people bang on about human rights they need to look back at why making some one statless is wrong. It was bought in to stop the mass genocide of jews, not to protect some terrorist wanna be who wants to continue mouthing off.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: timdon on February 21, 2019, 12:44:24 PM
So far its been the sort of discussion we welcomed when we started the politics section. Unfortunately after a while they started turning personal, nasty, vindictive the lot hence why we stopped it plus there were members who were coming on purely for the politics section and no interest it seemed in the club related sections.

Maybe this one can be used as a testing ground for others.
Fair enough, I understand. It hasn't become personal so far because pretty much everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. But as soon as someone posts an alternative view with a different perspective, it won't be long before it does again. For example, it could be argued that it is somewhat hypocritical for us as a nation to take the moral high ground against IS atrocities when we killed, or supported our "allies" killing, over half a million children in Iraq on a false pretext. Or it could be argued, as it was in the Adam Johnston trial thread, that at aged 15 you aren't legally considered old enough to make rational decisions. All I'm saying is, in my opinion, that as soon as someone goes against the grain, some people will get angry and the thread will become personal again. Of course, I totally respect your decision to let it run as a testing ground and hope I'm wrong in my analysis. Love and peace.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: timdon on February 21, 2019, 01:05:23 PM
The way our media works is so weird.

Theres no way shes the only British person who ran off and joined isis but she gets some interview with the times and now EVERYONE knows who she is and is talking about her. My social media is packed full of memes/jokes about her.

In an ideal world all the British citizen come Isis fighters get tried/sentanced in Syria. But being as they have a lot on their plate right now, I dont think its too unreasonable for them to come back to the uk to be given life sentences here?
Do you think it is too unreasonable to determine the sentence before the trial?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Black Country Pride on February 21, 2019, 01:43:10 PM
No PLEASE!
So we get the kid over here and his mother is somewhere else.
He be looked after by jer relatives
Little Jarrah (remember from where his name derives) goes to school first day:

Mrs Cohen, his teacher says good morning Jarah. That's an interesting name how did that name come about?
 :-X :-X
Right Jarah is mommy picking you up from the gate?   :-X :-X
Where's daddy?  :-X :-X

The point I'm trying to make is the kid will have his head filled with all sorts of rubbish he'll be walking round with sticks of dynamite in his sandwich box before he leaves school.
He'll be told his father was a freedom fighter against the infidels, his mother was stripped of her citizenship by the country in which she was born.
What sort of future will that kid have and what is the potential risk?
The best place for him is with his mother and not here

I'd have to respectfully disagree with you there. It's one thing to contemplate stripping the mother of her citizenship but the child is completely innocent. Barring someone from the citizenship they are entitled too when they have done nothing wrong sets an abysmal precedent and makes a mockery of everything this country purports to stand for. British citizenship is precious - let's not wipe our arses on it.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Atomic on February 21, 2019, 01:46:42 PM
I'd have to respectfully disagree with you there. It's one thing to contemplate stripping the mother of her citizenship but the child is completely innocent. Barring someone from the citizenship they are entitled too when they have done nothing wrong sets an abysmal precedent and makes a mockery of everything this country purports to stand for. British citizenship is precious - let's not wipe our arses on it.


Where was the child born? It is NOT British. End of.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 21, 2019, 01:50:50 PM
Unfortunately this will become political.
Mr. Corbyn wants her to recieve "some support" from UK authorities.
The Labour leader branded the government's decision a "very extreme manoeuvre" as he called for Ms Begum to "face a lot of questions" on British soil over her support of so-called Islamic State in Syria.

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-02-21/jeremy-corbyn-tells-itv-news-the-home-office-decision-to-strip-shamima-begum-of-uk-citizenship-is-very-extreme-move/

Perhaps this should be the time to lock this thread.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 21, 2019, 01:51:09 PM
The child is Syrian. End of.


You haven't really grasped Syrian Nationality rules have you? Derived from parentage (of father) not location of birth. Similarly in the UK there is no birthright to nationality, hasn't been since 1983.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Atomic on February 21, 2019, 01:53:40 PM

You haven't really grasped Syrian Nationality rules have you? Derived from parentage (of father) not location of birth. Similarly in the UK there is no birthright to nationality, hasn't been since 1983.


If you're born in Syria you're Syrian. That is fact. The rest is political, manufactured bull s h i t .

Born in Syria, you're Syrian that is bottom line, absolute non political fact.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 21, 2019, 01:56:34 PM

You haven't really grasped Syrian Nationality rules have you? Derived from parentage (of father) not location of birth. Similarly in the UK there is no birthright to nationality, hasn't been since 1983.
so the child is Dutch then?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 21, 2019, 02:01:08 PM
so the child is Dutch then?


The child is definitely a British and Dutch dual national.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on February 21, 2019, 02:01:31 PM
So just to be clear, parentage also influences nationality under UK law, and other most others.  If for example you were born overseas whilst mom or dad were working abroad, you will still be British.

Having considered this issue carefully, it would not be responsible for us to ask a country such as Bangladesh to deal with this girl.  We should allow (at her family's cost and arrangement), her return to the UK where we deal with her under UK law.  I do not want to hear that in ten years time she has pitched up Dhaka or Mombasa carrying out an atrocious attack on innocent people there.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 21, 2019, 02:03:36 PM
Although I was born and bred in Smethwick, a close hospital would have been City Road Hospital in Birmingham.
If for some reason my mother was taken to there to give birth, would that have made me a "Brummie"?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Atomic on February 21, 2019, 02:05:51 PM

The child is definitely a British and Dutch dual national.


No it isn't. Laws are man made and I don't give a stuff what the laws say. The child was born in Syria it is Syrian. It doesn't matter what argument you come up with or what "laws" you quote that kid was born in Syria therefore it is Syrian. That is bottom line fact. Anything else is manufactured bulls s h i t, however you spin it.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 21, 2019, 02:08:18 PM

The child is definitely a British and Dutch dual national.
if the mother’s citizenship is rescinded, would that not effect the child? It only gains the citizenship through the mother and, as you say, the child has no birthright to that nationality.

Wouldn’t that make the claim tenuous at best? I genuinely don’t know
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 21, 2019, 02:08:53 PM
I am still waiting to read the old chestnut reply....
If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinaman?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 21, 2019, 02:12:58 PM
Fair enough, I understand. It hasn't become personal so far because pretty much everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet. But as soon as someone posts an alternative view with a different perspective, it won't be long before it does again. For example, it could be argued that it is somewhat hypocritical for us as a nation to take the moral high ground against IS atrocities when we killed, or supported our "allies" killing, over half a million children in Iraq on a false pretext. Or it could be argued, as it was in the Adam Johnston trial thread, that at aged 15 you aren't legally considered old enough to make rational decisions. All I'm saying is, in my opinion, that as soon as someone goes against the grain, some people will get angry and the thread will become personal again. Of course, I totally respect your decision to let it run as a testing ground and hope I'm wrong in my analysis. Love and peace.

Thats the key not only to the future of this topic but also to the future of anything even thinly veiled political on here, turns personal then it and any future ones will be gone as soon as the first post appears. People act like mature adults then it stays and gives us a chance to allow future topics, however if as I said above it goes the other way and starts to become like kids in the playground then bye bye to it all including this actual section of the forum which will be removed.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 21, 2019, 02:15:36 PM

No it isn't. Laws are man made and I don't give a stuff what the laws say. The child was born in Syria it is Syrian. It doesn't matter what argument you come up with or what "laws" you quote that kid was born in Syria therefore it is Syrian. That is bottom line fact. Anything else is manufactured bulls s h i t, however you spin it.

Countries and nationality are just are manufactured bull though too aren't they?  Borders are completely man made.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 21, 2019, 02:19:19 PM
if the mother’s citizenship is rescinded, would that not effect the child? It only gains the citizenship through the mother and, as you say, the child has no birthright to that nationality.

Wouldn’t that make the claim tenuous at best? I genuinely don’t know


No because it has been rescinded after the child was born. Nothing tenuous about it.



No it isn't. Laws are man made and I don't give a stuff what the laws say. The child was born in Syria it is Syrian. It doesn't matter what argument you come up with or what "laws" you quote that kid was born in Syria therefore it is Syrian. That is bottom line fact. Anything else is manufactured bulls s h i t, however you spin it.


There is no birthright in Syria. Clearly not a fact. Also the simple fact of being born in the UK doesn't in and of itself make you British.


America still uses birthright for nationality purposes.


I am still waiting to read the old chestnut reply....
If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinaman?


China is slightly more complex due to Hong Kong and Macau,  but basically no not unless one of your parents was Chinese.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 21, 2019, 02:23:17 PM

No because it has been rescinded after the child was born. Nothing tenuous about it.



There is no birthright in Syria. Clearly not a fact. Also the simple fact of being born in the UK doesn't in and of itself make you British.


America still uses birthright for nationality purposes.



China is slightly more complex due to Hong Kong and Macau,  but basically no not unless one of your parents was Chinese.
Do you mean to say...they may have had a "bit on the side"?
I'll get me coot. :P
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 21, 2019, 02:31:40 PM
I honestly don’t know the answer to this and these are genuine questions.

Lets say a British couple working, not resident or nationalised Australian, had a child whilst in Australia, do the parents have a choice on the child’s nationality i.e. British or Australian or even dual nationality?

Whatever their choice of nationality for the child, would the British couple be required to go to that Embassy to register the birth and ask to be issued with a passport for the child?

In the case of choosing British Nationality, would the British Embassy either issue a passport for the child or include the child on one of the parents passports? Could the British Embassy refuse to do either as the child was born in Australia?

Given international law on citizenship, would the Australian Government then be duty bound to issue a passport to ensure the child isn’t stateless?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 21, 2019, 02:41:10 PM
I honestly don’t know the answer to this and these are genuine questions.

Lets say a British couple working, not resident or nationalised Australian, had a child whilst in Australia, do the parents have a choice on the child’s nationality i.e. British or Australian or even dual nationality?

Whatever their choice of nationality for the child, would the British couple be required to go to that Embassy to register the birth and ask to be issued with a passport for the child?

In the case of choosing British Nationality, would the British Embassy either issue a passport for the child or include the child on one of the parents passports? Could the British Embassy refuse to do either as the child was born in Australia?

Given international law on citizenship, would the Australian Government then be duty bound to issue a passport to ensure the child isn’t stateless?


There is no birthright in Australia unless one of the parents has Australian citizenship. So the child would be British. We couldn't deny them.


Edit. Not having a passport doesn't make you stateless.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 21, 2019, 02:56:15 PM

There is no birthright in Australia unless one of the parents has Australian citizenship. So the child would be British. We couldn't deny them.


Edit. Not having a passport doesn't make you stateless.

Australia may not have been the best of examples, substitute Syria for Australia
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 21, 2019, 03:05:00 PM
Australia may not have been the best of examples, substitute Syria for Australia


In Syria, if the father is not Syrian then neither are you. You could be born in Syria, to a Syrian mother and still not be Syrian. In your scenario again the child would solely be British, and much like in this case we couldn't deny its rights...


USA would be a better country to use in the question posed, although there are virtually no scenarios where we could deny the child its citizenship.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 21, 2019, 03:09:46 PM

In Syria, if the father is not Syrian then neither are you. You could be born in Syria, to a Syrian mother and still not be Syrian. In your scenario again the child would solely be British, and much like in this case we couldn't deny its rights...


USA would be a better country to use in the question posed, although there are virtually no scenarios where we could deny the child its citizenship.
Thank you for the response and clarification
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: KYA on February 21, 2019, 03:19:13 PM
The way I see it the kid was born in Syria to a parent who although born in England as no affinity with our country and will raise the child to hate all infidels if we bring them back we must be crazy.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Hunnington Baggie on February 21, 2019, 03:20:08 PM

In Syria, if the father is not Syrian then neither are you. You could be born in Syria, to a Syrian mother and still not be Syrian. In your scenario again the child would solely be British, and much like in this case we couldn't deny its rights...


USA would be a better country to use in the question posed, although there are virtually no scenarios where we could deny the child its citizenship.
Speaking of, America have just today denied entry to a jihadi bride in a very similar situation.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: timdon on February 21, 2019, 03:31:15 PM

If you're born in Syria you're Syrian. That is fact. The rest is political, manufactured bull s h i t .

Born in Syria, you're Syrian that is bottom line, absolute non political fact.
Many years ago, when my mum and dad were returning from a holiday in America, my mum went into unplanned labour and I was born prematurely on the plane. Does that make me a spaceman?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: tuamigos on February 21, 2019, 03:31:57 PM
I am still waiting to read the old chestnut reply....
If I was born in China, would that make me a Chinaman?

I prefer:

If a dogs born in a stable does that make him a horse?  (Thank you Bernard Manning)
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: tuamigos on February 21, 2019, 03:32:47 PM
Many years ago, when my mum and dad were returning from a holiday in America, my mum went into unplanned labour and I was born prematurely on the plane. Does that make me a spaceman?

No, a space cadet.  ;)
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: timdon on February 21, 2019, 03:39:38 PM
No, a space cadet.  ;)
You're splitting hairs. Accepted, I was a space cadet when I was born, but I'm a fully fledged spaceman now (apparently)  ;D
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Barrington on February 21, 2019, 04:00:57 PM
I don't think most sensible people would have a massive problem with her coming back if she was just going to be locked up for life (I know it will still cost us money, but at least she's not on the street). At the end of the day, she is our problem. Syria have enough to deal with at the moment, and she's never set foot in Bangladesh (I think) so that was never likely to wash, was it?

The major problem with this though, is that people know she will get a relatively easy ride WHEN she gets back. I think this is where the real anger stems from. I may be wrong.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: kc56wba on February 21, 2019, 04:21:32 PM
We are all up in arms about this story, thanks to the Times newspaper, but what about those British people who have returned to these shores from Iraq and Syria and were ISIS supporters not just fighters. Have they had their British citizenship revoked?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Barrington on February 21, 2019, 04:34:56 PM
A load of people got compensation upon their return:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/22/british-former-guantanamo-bay-detainee-received-share-20m-payout/
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: gazberg on February 21, 2019, 04:44:06 PM
The Guantanamo prisoners were held illegally and by that i mean without charge indefinitely which is why they got compensation.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: tommcneill on February 21, 2019, 05:18:44 PM
We are all up in arms about this story, thanks to the Times newspaper, but what about those British people who have returned to these shores from Iraq and Syria and were ISIS supporters not just fighters. Have they had their British citizenship revoked?

They have revoked citizenship for a lot of those who went out to fight yes
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: dont ask me to choose luv on February 21, 2019, 06:17:06 PM
Many years ago, when my mum and dad were returning from a holiday in America, my mum went into unplanned labour and I was born prematurely on the plane. Does that make me a spaceman?

Were you a BMI baby?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: timdon on February 21, 2019, 11:34:43 PM
Were you a BMI baby?
Body mass index?????
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: EastYorksAlbion on February 22, 2019, 01:09:21 AM
My daughter was born in Germany, she is most definitely British. Though I agree with a lot of the points being raised on this thread, I think some of the suggestions that people not born in this country are not British are unacceptable.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Albionic on February 22, 2019, 01:46:03 AM
there is a nice little place in Turkey which has been extensively used for "interrogation" apparently (the rendition spa and country club, waterboarding is a speciality offering), maybe this would be an option, saves on the airfare to Cuba as well
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Atomic on February 22, 2019, 02:24:11 AM
Many years ago, when my mum and dad were returning from a holiday in America, my mum went into unplanned labour and I was born prematurely on the plane. Does that make me a spaceman?
No it makes you an alien  :D
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: dont ask me to choose luv on February 22, 2019, 07:57:43 AM
Body mass index?????

British Midland International 
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: SmethDan on February 22, 2019, 10:08:22 AM
Can't help but think this may prove to be a fairly useful link so I'll just leave it here and walk away.

https://www.gov.uk/types-of-british-nationality/british-citizenship
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: timdon on February 22, 2019, 10:31:19 AM
there is a nice little place in Turkey which has been extensively used for "interrogation" apparently (the rendition spa and country club, waterboarding is a speciality offering), maybe this would be an option, saves on the airfare to Cuba as well
I like a good discussion as much as the next person, and I'm pretty tolerant of views that differ to my own, but advocating torture ??? Sorry, that crosses a line for me.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Albionic on February 22, 2019, 01:29:43 PM
I like a good discussion as much as the next person, and I'm pretty tolerant of views that differ to my own, but advocating torture ??? Sorry, that crosses a line for me.
‘‘Twas a joke, if you thought I was serious you are wrong !
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Westie on February 24, 2019, 05:59:31 PM
Many years ago, when my mum and dad were returning from a holiday in America, my mum went into unplanned labour and I was born prematurely on the plane. Does that make me a spaceman?

Do you live in a town or city? The Bonzo Dogs sang about the Urban Spaceman!
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on February 25, 2019, 08:38:44 PM
Shamima Begum’s father says he ‘doesn’t have a problem’ with daughter's British citizenship being removed

Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shamima-begum-isis-bride-british-citizenship-removed-latest-father-sajid-javid-interview-uk-a8794141.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 25, 2019, 09:37:13 PM
Shamima Begum’s father says he ‘doesn’t have a problem’ with daughter's British citizenship being removed

Source: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/shamima-begum-isis-bride-british-citizenship-removed-latest-father-sajid-javid-interview-uk-a8794141.html?amp&__twitter_impression=true
Different report from ITV. He wants the UK to accept her back so she can be under British juristriction.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-02-25/shamima-begums-father-says-is-bride-was-a-little-child-who-made-a-mistake-and-urges-government-to-return-citizenship/
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: mulliganstired on February 26, 2019, 07:15:46 AM
Don't see why we should do anything, leave her there.  If she gets back under her own steam somehow, get the handcuffs out.  About 20 years in Holloway should give her time to be "rehabilitated"
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 03, 2019, 07:41:57 PM
She is not on her own.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-03/its-not-over-british-is-woman-tells-itv-news-militant-group-will-return-as-it-loses-ground-in-syria/
We must keep our guard up.
Even though we can all read this.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-03/dutch-husband-of-runaway-teenage-is-bride-wants-pair-to-live-in-netherlands/
I was thinking about a holiday in Turkey.
Maybe another rethink.
I know that the Turkish government are against IS, but what stops extreme Muslims supporting IS?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: liverbaggie on March 03, 2019, 08:24:29 PM
As I partly said earlier the clue is in her name........Sham........Beg.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 04, 2019, 08:43:42 PM
Along the same lines about withdrawl of British citizenship.
Another person in Syria is challenging the removal of his British citizenship.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47420105
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on March 08, 2019, 06:37:11 PM
“reports that Shamima Begum's lawyer says her baby has died.”

From a purely humane prospective, that is a tragedy, considering she has lost her other babies.

We don’t have to adopt the same perspective about the value of life as IS
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: gerry m on March 08, 2019, 07:15:17 PM
“reports that Shamima Begum's lawyer says her baby has died.”

From a purely humane prospective, that is a tragedy, considering she has lost her other babies.

We don’t have to adopt the same perspective about the value of life as IS

An innocent child has died but you have to ask the question she has had 3 children and they have all died. She made her choice to go over there and as you say ISIS do not seem to care about life.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on March 08, 2019, 07:19:52 PM
An innocent child has died but you have to ask the question she has had 3 children and they have all died. She made her choice to go over there and as you say ISIS do not seem to care about life.

I don’t think you read that post correctly, where is the question? It’s just a statement of fact.

Perhaps you might want to reconsider your accusations?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: gerry m on March 08, 2019, 07:38:04 PM
I don’t think you read that post correctly, where is the question? It’s just a statement of fact.

Perhaps you might want to reconsider your accusations?

Prehaps my wording was wrong but she has had 3 children and they have all died.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on March 08, 2019, 07:40:00 PM
Prehaps my wording was wrong but she has had 3 children and they have all died.

That’s what I said
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: gerry m on March 08, 2019, 07:45:00 PM
That’s what I said

I was agreeing with you.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: AlbionFan on March 08, 2019, 07:49:10 PM
I was agreeing with you.

Thank you for the clarification  :)
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: gerry m on March 08, 2019, 07:52:47 PM
Thank you for the clarification  :)

No worries AlbionFan :D
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 09, 2019, 11:16:42 PM
https://news.sky.com/story/senior-muslim-leader-muslim-country-should-adopt-is-bride-shamima-begum-11660361
Even her faith wants her to be accepted and adopted.
They understand that politics play no place in her future.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on March 09, 2019, 11:35:28 PM
They are cowards who hide the veil.
https://www.itv.com/news/2019-03-09/islamic-state-woman-who-spoke-to-itv-news-after-escaping-baghouz-named-in-reports/
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 15, 2019, 03:20:21 PM
Nice to know where our taxes are being spent.
Shamima Begum: IS bride 'given legal aid' for citizenship fight.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47934721
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: sammyg on April 15, 2019, 03:39:00 PM
For a split second when I saw this thread I thought she’d been appointed our new head coach. :o
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Mister AT on April 15, 2019, 03:49:45 PM
For a split second when I saw this thread I thought she’d been appointed our new head coach. :o

Nearly spat my coffee out reading that  :D

Regarding Shamima Begum, I'm sure I read an article the weekend that she was heavily involved in the making of the vests and attaching them to 'soldiers' during her time with ISIS - totally contradicts her statement that she was 'brainwashed' into the whole thing and didn't have any involvement.

Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: gerry m on April 15, 2019, 04:08:47 PM
Nice to know where our taxes are being spent.
Shamima Begum: IS bride 'given legal aid' for citizenship fight.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47934721

Sorry but in my opinion that is disgracful!
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: royhan on April 15, 2019, 04:15:17 PM
Sorry but in my opinion that is disgracful!

I agree. It’s totally scandalous. I hope our MPs do everything to stop this.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Albionic on April 15, 2019, 04:21:24 PM
she's had citizenship stripped so surely not entitled anymore.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Nathan on April 15, 2019, 06:57:50 PM
she's had citizenship stripped so surely not entitled anymore.

You'd have though that would be the case wouldn't you, what a joke our country is. The Home Secretary has been quoted as saying that the decision to award her legal aid is not a decision for politicians but for 'officials'. What have we become? It makes my piss boil, it really does. Not allowed to say anything or criticise these 'officials' are we because that would be deemed as racist and would be against their social engineering.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: MarkW on April 16, 2019, 09:50:45 PM
Nice to know where our taxes are being spent.
Shamima Begum: IS bride 'given legal aid' for citizenship fight.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-47934721

Legal Aid doesn't come from our taxes, I don't think. The amount of funding is controlled, somewhat indirectly, through the government, but legal aid would come from the Legal Aid Agency, via her lawyers
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 16, 2019, 10:14:02 PM
Who funds the Legal Aid Agency's ability to dispense funds if not out taxes eventually?
Anything that any government department spends is funded by you and me plus a few million tax payers.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 16, 2019, 10:44:22 PM
Legal Aid doesn't come from our taxes, I don't think. The amount of funding is controlled, somewhat indirectly, through the government, but legal aid would come from the Legal Aid Agency, via her lawyers


Legal Aid Agency is just an arm of the Civil Service, it is entirely funded by the treasury, who's coffers are mostly swelled by taxation. No different to any other means tested benefit.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on April 16, 2019, 11:49:25 PM

Legal Aid Agency is just an arm of the Civil Service, it is entirely funded by the treasury, who's coffers are mostly swelled by taxation. No different to any other means tested benefit.
#
Agreed. That is why I feel agrieved that we are being abused by paying for her and her family to sue us.
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: costa blanca baggie on April 17, 2019, 12:34:02 AM
#
Agreed. That is why I feel agrieved that we are being abused by paying for her and her family to sue us.
Where does it say the family is suing?
Title: Re: Shamima Begum
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 17, 2019, 01:41:58 PM
#
Agreed. That is why I feel agrieved that we are being abused by paying for her and her family to sue us.


Believe it is for an appeal...