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West Bromwich Albion FC Forums => West Bromwich Albion FC => Topic started by: Paulsammax on January 13, 2019, 08:52:34 PM

Title: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Paulsammax on January 13, 2019, 08:52:34 PM
Don't post on here much but just driving down the M40 listening to 606 it reminds me of how much I disliked being in the Premier league. Yes there were a few great days but we would start out each season hoping to reach 40 points. We lost more than we won and we ended up sacrificing entertainment for results - basically working towards being 17th. Mid table was a success and that was about it. This year we start every game with an expectation of winning - and more often than not we do. We score bucket fulls of goals in the process and there is proper entertainment again. Sadly we need to go up for the money and endure the misery of at least 1 season for the Sky money. What has the game become?
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: OldburyWBA on January 13, 2019, 08:57:39 PM
Its a difficult one for me as on the one hand you want to see your club facing the best and beating them but on the other the way the Prem is going is not enjoyable. I've been losing interest over the past couple of years which I put down to the club just being happy to survive each year, its not down to the boring poor football as I along with many others have seen it before over the years, thats part and parcel, its the whole Premier League that bores me.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: BalisPen on January 13, 2019, 09:02:19 PM
I do.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 13, 2019, 09:06:16 PM
In an ideal world you'd win the Championship, get the Premier League money then stay where you are.


Sadly if we don't go up, seasons won't be as enjoyable as this year, we'll be stripped of assets and have the feeling you described except in the lower reaches of the 2nd tier. I don't want to go back to that. The 90s were s**t despite the rose tinted specs of nostalgia.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: walter baggie on January 13, 2019, 09:13:21 PM
£100 million reasons
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: 17GD on January 13, 2019, 09:33:25 PM
£100 million reasons

Genuine question now. How much of this do you think would go back into the team?

It just seems as though over the past several years we've made hundreds of millions, but look at the sqaud we have. It's not like we offloaded dozens of top players when we got relegated.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: hardtobeat on January 13, 2019, 09:40:30 PM
The simple answer to the thread title is Mr Lai ;D
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 13, 2019, 09:47:40 PM
Genuine question now. How much of this do you think would go back into the team?

It just seems as though over the past several years we've made hundreds of millions, but look at the sqaud we have. It's not like we offloaded dozens of top players when we got relegated.


It all goes on player wages.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: don1thedon on January 13, 2019, 10:13:38 PM
Really simple answer from me - Yes!
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: wbako on January 13, 2019, 10:23:37 PM
I've thoroughly enjoyed this season. Been going home and away for the first time for years. I genuinely can't answer the question.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: albion59 on January 13, 2019, 10:39:51 PM
Hard one this. I ain't Albion losing and want to win every game, but I am enjoying this season far more than I did the last 3 in the greed league. So i would prefer to stay down, but that means losing a few games. I'm more confused now than when I started to answer this question!!
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: wba_1996 on January 13, 2019, 10:52:50 PM
Every season we fail to get promoted, the following season will get worse, it's not going to be like this every season. Look at our squad age and reliance upon loanees, it's imperative that we get promoted this season.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Standaman on January 13, 2019, 11:12:44 PM
Yes and no. I would like us to do well but the prize is going back into the bottom 14 of the Premier League and well that is not fun.

The money is totally irrelevent to me. I get to watch better paid footballers but in terms of competition there is no point in the mismatch between the top 6 and the rest.

The only footballing benefit we have as fans is that our squad would be stronger than none Premier League teams in the Cups. That gives us an opportunity of a final but realistically when you look at the line up for the League cup semi's with Chelsea Spurs Man City and in this case Burton. Most Premier League teams would have not much more of a chance of getting past two top 6 sides to actually win the cup than Burton did particularly when the semi's are over two legs.

Above all else if we are promoted there is no point trying to hang onto Premier League status by playing the utter sh*t football peddled by Pulis and the like (looking at you too Benetiz) it is so utterly joyless I would rather lose every single game and be relegated with a minus 100 goal difference than do that.


Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: gazberg on January 13, 2019, 11:17:20 PM
Absolutely want us to go back.

It may not be as entertaining for us as fans but it's better for the club long term. As someone else mentioned the dark days of the  early 90's were absolutely awful.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: caravanc58 on January 14, 2019, 12:14:34 AM
yes, but only if the club wants more than just survival and the money.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: SmethDan on January 14, 2019, 12:23:59 AM
I'd love to celebrate another promotion. If we were later relegated following a miserable season of defeats I'd then look forward to celebrating promotion and the feel good factor of victories again at some later date.

Get up and let the rest take care of itself or stay down and watch us become gradually less competitive as our finances gradually dry up? Or put another way enjoy myself as we win and actually get something for my gate money or stare nervously into my navel at the thought of losing games the following season?

Of course I want us to get promoted. The most excellent of celebratory piss ups bring additional joy to life and may play some part in my thinking, but it's absolutely a yes from me.

COYB  8) .
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Aixelsyd on January 14, 2019, 01:16:48 AM
Promotion? ....... absolutely a Big yes

to me, it not so bad in the Premier League as long as the attitude is right..

OK park the bus against the super rich... just to irritate them

BUT play to win against other 13 :)
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: chipperclark on January 14, 2019, 01:23:08 AM
 ;D I am happy in Chumps...but as mentioned 100 mill to go up,would be nice....but will the club see this or Mr Lai ???? >:(

Realistically he would take a big "chunk" of this money...and if we didn't strengthen the team "substantially" we would come straight back down with "parachute" payments,as Jeremy Peace,would have used, and did so, as we Yo-Yode up and down. Not a bad way to make money.

After watching the Sunderland documentary series...not sure if the Owners give a "toss" about fans,players,history and people connected to the club....a pretty ruthless industry.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: wappingbaggie on January 14, 2019, 03:43:17 AM
trouble is that you cant stay in the 'sweet spot ' we are in now - if you dont bounce back after 1 season (2 max) you lose all your good players and you lose the money needed to find more - so you end up as a team that doesnt expect to win their games in the championship and doesnt score that many goals

And equally, as noted, if we go up, what does the prem offer us ?

There is a structural problem with English football (and the other main european leagues) - and the solution is the big 6 move to a european super league and leave us proper clubs to resurrect proper football.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: BigFrank20 on January 14, 2019, 04:13:19 AM
Look at our squad age and reliance upon loanees
And how well is that going to work out in the prem?
Might be an idea to ask a few Huddersfield supports how they are enjoying their season in the prem?
Took my own advice http://downatthemac.proboards.com/thread/111367/epitaph-rip
This one is called Epitaph-RIP and has comments like "Huddersfield Town.. we came, we saw, we tried" and "we didn't come to make up the numbers because if we had we would have made better ones than these" 
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: BigFrank20 on January 14, 2019, 04:17:28 AM
There is a structural problem with English football (and the other main european leagues) - and the solution is the big 6 move to a european super league and leave us proper clubs to resurrect proper football.

I'd vote for this option in any peoples vote  :)
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: overseas baggie on January 14, 2019, 04:22:01 AM
The best of all worlds is to be a yo-yo club again, but only if we give it a real go when we get up, rather than being paralysed by a fear of losing, because being relegated with a decent squad and with parachute money actually isn’t so bad, as we are seeing now.

We used to be viewed as a model medium sized club in the Premier League, as were Charlton before us.  I guess Southampton, and now Watford and Bournemouth, have that title now, possibly Burnley as well.

But for probably 11 or 12 of the 14 “other” clubs in the PL (Everton, West Ham and arguably Leicester) there is negligible chance of getting into Europe and, as Burnley showed (and Stoke before them), qualifying for Europe is actually a poisoned chalice as it increases the chances of relegation. So it’s all about survival, playing low-risk football, and hoping to scrape 40 points. That’s as good as it gets, which is what I said 2 seasons ago when we nearly got into Europe.

Yes, a return to the yo-yo years would be fine with me. Survive one or two seasons in that PL but run a sensible budget.   Little point in gambling recklessly just to finish 7th or 8th as that’s quickly unsustainable if there’s a downturn.

People talk about losing £100m. But think about it.  That money goes on transfer fees, on wages and in transfer fees.  If there’s anything left over, the owner might make some money. The money makes no difference to the fans. We get to see the so-called big 6 in the flesh but so what - it’s vastly overrated especially when our goal is to scrape a 0-0 or try to keep the scoreline respectable.

We had 5 great months under Steve Clarke, a similar period under Roy Hodgson and another 4 great months under Pulis.  The rest of our time in the PL was pretty dire and unenjoyable.

A league made up of the other 14 plus 6 from the Championship would be a fantastic league and would still be one of the top 4 of 5 watched leagues in the world. I can’t wait for the big 6 to sod off to join their peers in a Super League.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: baggie38 on January 14, 2019, 04:31:20 AM
I really like the championship its competitive and tight and for the most part it's good traditional clubs in there. I couldn't Stand seeing groups of people take their phones out and start recording the likes of pogba and aguero line up a free kick at our goal to show to their mates in the pubs or in school. That said I don't want to just sit in this league for years stagnating like Forest and Leeds have. It's a very good question but a tough one to answer.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 14, 2019, 08:30:46 AM
In an ideal world you'd win the Championship, get the Premier League money then stay where you are.


Sadly if we don't go up, seasons won't be as enjoyable as this year, we'll be stripped of assets and have the feeling you described except in the lower reaches of the 2nd tier. I don't want to go back to that. The 90s were s**t despite the rose tinted specs of nostalgia.

Agreed. We saw some awful football during the 90's. I look back on the time fondly, but that is with those rose tinted specs of nostalgia, living it at the time was pretty unbearable.

We have to get promoted this season, even if just to get the money, our squad won't be this good next season were we to not get promoted.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Albionic on January 14, 2019, 09:05:47 AM
The best of all worlds is to be a yo-yo club again, but only if we give it a real go when we get up, rather than being paralysed by a fear of losing, because being relegated with a decent squad and with parachute money actually isn’t so bad, as we are seeing now.

We used to be viewed as a model medium sized club in the Premier League, as were Charlton before us.  I guess Southampton, and now Watford and Bournemouth, have that title now, possibly Burnley as well.

But for probably 11 or 12 of the 14 “other” clubs in the PL (Everton, West Ham and arguably Leicester) there is negligible chance of getting into Europe and, as Burnley showed (and Stoke before them), qualifying for Europe is actually a poisoned chalice as it increases the chances of relegation. So it’s all about survival, playing low-risk football, and hoping to scrape 40 points. That’s as good as it gets, which is what I said 2 seasons ago when we nearly got into Europe.

Yes, a return to the yo-yo years would be fine with me. Survive one or two seasons in that PL but run a sensible budget.   Little point in gambling recklessly just to finish 7th or 8th as that’s quickly unsustainable if there’s a downturn.

People talk about losing £100m. But think about it.  That money goes on transfer fees, on wages and in transfer fees.  If there’s anything left over, the owner might make some money. The money makes no difference to the fans. We get to see the so-called big 6 in the flesh but so what - it’s vastly overrated especially when our goal is to scrape a 0-0 or try to keep the scoreline respectable.

We had 5 great months under Steve Clarke, a similar period under Roy Hodgson and another 4 great months under Pulis.  The rest of our time in the PL was pretty dire and unenjoyable.

A league made up of the other 14 plus 6 from the Championship would be a fantastic league and would still be one of the top 4 of 5 watched leagues in the world. I can’t wait for the big 6 to sod off to join their peers in a Super League.

Yo-Yoing is the best for the fans (as long as during the prem years we go for it of course), Promotion and survival football is the best for the club.

Its hard to see how this difference in expectations is resolved.

I agree that the leagues need restructuring to
a) take out the biggest clubs (Euro-league? This would unfortunately take all the cash with it though)
b) re-introduce a competitive second team league
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 14, 2019, 09:55:59 AM
Yo-Yoing is the best for the fans (as long as during the prem years we go for it of course), Promotion and survival football is the best for the club.

Its hard to see how this difference in expectations is resolved.

I agree that the leagues need restructuring to
a) take out the biggest clubs (Euro-league? This would unfortunately take all the cash with it though)
b) re-introduce a competitive second team league

This is exactly the problem I have in answering the original question. Do I really want to watch us make up the numbers in the premier league? While it's great when we beat some of the top 6 sides, we usually have nothing to play for come April as we are mid table and safe with no chance of breaking into the Top 7.

Perhaps extending the Europa League to have sides that finish 5-10th and reinstating the Cup Winners Cup for the teams that win the FA Cup? Maybe do away with the league Cup or have it just for EFL teams and get rid of the other cup competitions. I'd have said include the League cup winners in the Cup Winners Cup but I don't know if any continental countries have an equivalent competition.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2019, 10:12:04 AM
Nice to see some well balanced answers on this thread - most are very realistic.

I definately want the club to be promoted but I know how incredibly difficult it would be next year and it all likelyhood, we will be served up with the weekly battering and in the relegation fight from day 1. For me we need to know what the intentions are of the owner and the board. I would love to see us buy quality players and actually put a team together that can more than holds its own, but under this present regime I fear [because I don't know] that its all about balancing the books and surviving. Now I don't mind that providing we 'have a go' on the pitch, but having to go back to watching the dross we have recently been served will not be acceptable.
There are many variables to the question really for me. I am loving the way we play at the moment, and if we can take this into the Premier League [with the right calibre of player] then I am all for it, but if we are going to park the bus every game, then I am not so sure. All of this depends on our beloved owner and board. At this moment the evidence seems to suggest that it will be the latter.   
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: paulosull on January 14, 2019, 10:12:55 AM
Stats show we are 11th or 12th in English football but our owners haven't had the financial muscle or forward thinking since our last hayday of 70s and early 80s.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 14, 2019, 10:55:04 AM
Stats show we are 11th or 12th in English football but our owners haven't had the financial muscle or forward thinking since our last hayday of 70s and early 80s.

Even during this last golden period we weren't exactly forward thinking or financially strong, hence why we lost players like Cunningham, Cantello, Robson, Moses etc. Football was more even back then that's why we were competitive.

Without being taken over by a rich individual/consortium who is able and prepared to spend £100M+ we will always be a mid-table prem side at best.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: tommcneill on January 14, 2019, 11:14:19 AM
If your reason in football is not to move forward then you will end up going backwards...

I want to go back up, if we come down again then so be it, but you always have to look towards promotion or there is no point in being in any league
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: baggiebof on January 14, 2019, 11:18:27 AM
For the reasons highlighted by jacko and the fear of having no money and returning to the dark days of the 90's - the answer is yes. What needs to happen when you get to the Premier league is to understand the best you can be and try to achieve that. For me, that would be mid-table (as unambitious as that sounds) but crucially as discussed in other topics down the years, become a cup team. Being a mid-table team gives you a good enough squad to give the best clubs a bloody nose in a one-off game and that's what we should be looking to do in my opinion, whilst also having a more positive style of football than we've witnessed under Pulis. Don't get me wrong, I'm under no illusions how difficult it is to win a cup but to really attack them would make mid-table seasons in the PL where we do get the odd result against good teams, at least a more exciting season, even without ending up winning a cup.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Albionic on January 14, 2019, 11:37:22 AM
A couple of points in relation to posts above

@Hull, to maintain a mid table prem club £100m is no longer enough (see fulham), it can be that much a season, there are clearly exceptions but only one which springs to mind is Watford, Soton were generating their cash via sales but still investing it all back in plus money from Billionaire owners

@Baggiebof, the cup idea is ok and a laudable objective, but if you draw one of the big uns in an early round you can be back to a "dead season" by January.

No-one sensible would try to enter a Mondeo in the F1 championship but that is what the Premier league have allowed Sky to turn the game into sadly. There are a few mondeos competing at the bottom end and its not fun watching them getting lapped year after year after year, after.........

Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: miggybaggy on January 14, 2019, 12:07:16 PM
I despise the premier league and what it has become....but I'd dearly love us to go back up even if its just to re-establish the respect opposition fans used to have of our approach to football before Pulis came along. Everyone hated us under Pulis the last couple of seasons and it still hurts me when I think of that. We at least need to put that right, surely?
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Mikkyk on January 14, 2019, 12:15:41 PM
I despise the premier league and what it has become....but I'd dearly love us to go back up even if its just to re-establish the respect opposition fans used to have of our approach to football before Pulis came along. Everyone hated us under Pulis the last couple of seasons and it still hurts me when I think of that. We at least need to put that right, surely?

Yep, we were always regarded as a team most people liked and Pulis well and truly put pay to that. DM in the PL may be able to change that.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: baggiebof on January 14, 2019, 12:15:57 PM
A couple of points in relation to posts above

@Baggiebof, the cup idea is ok and a laudable objective, but if you draw one of the big uns in an early round you can be back to a "dead season" by January.


Yeah, I accept that but for the reasons listed by Jacko and others re the loss of funding and the fear of returning to the days of the 90s, I still think we do want promotion; I am just trying to put a more positive spin on how seasons could be more exciting in the Premier league and for me, what we should be trying to achieve.

Another reason is the possibility of a European super league. Take out the bigger teams and we want to be in the level just below them to capitalise, should it ever happen of course.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: smethwickw on January 14, 2019, 12:35:29 PM
Like it or not football is a business nowadays so promotion this season is imperative. Whether we as fans enjoy it is another matter. Our lack of ambition over the last few years in the Prem made it a grind for me.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: seteefeet on January 14, 2019, 12:40:14 PM
I hate the Premier League but, if we don't go up, we just become also rans in the Championship, which is equally depressing.
Ideally, get promoted, have a real go at it, playing a decent style of football, and sticking with the manager, even if the going gets tough. If we did that and came back down, I wouldn't be too disappointed. It would certainly help restore some post Pulis pride.

Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: FallOutBoy on January 14, 2019, 12:46:53 PM
The basic fact is we need to be a Premier League team now. The gap is huge - maybe not quality wise, but financially. If we don't go up this season, we could get progressively worse while chasing the same goal. The worst case scenario is ending up like Ipswich, whereby you've chased getting promoted again and end up millions in debt while dropping down the table.

Another fact is that the coming summer could (should) see our highest squad turnover in several years, with players leaving on frees, their loans ending, etc. That becomes an easier prospect if you're in the Premier League; players are more likely to sign, and you can afford much better wages and bonuses. If we're still in the Championship, not only will we struggle to attract players while having to reduce the wage bill, but we'll lose more players because people like Dawson, Rodriguez, Hegazi, etc still think they're Premier League players.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Albionic on January 14, 2019, 12:48:30 PM
agree that one of the most depressing things about modern football is the speed at which people (fans and directors) forget what managers have achieved.

There have apparently been mutterings about both Sean Dyche and Wagner at Huddersfield, 2 clubs who have massively over achieved due in no small part to the managers. As I say depressing, it would be good to be a club that buck that particular trend IMO.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: KN22 on January 14, 2019, 12:56:01 PM
I definitely want us to get promoted. It is fascinating reading the views of others on this forum, many of which I fully appreciate having been a very regular viewer for some 50 years now. You do not have to play attritional football in the premier league as we did under you know who. There are many teams who have survived comfortably whilst playing an attacking brand of football. You risk a bloody nose when playing the top dogs for sure but there are plenty of other games.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 14, 2019, 01:12:52 PM
The novelty of this division, winning games and playing good football is enjoyable - it has made a pleasant change and I am sure most have been happy with the season so far. I know playing in the Premier League is often boring, but the Championship after of few seasons, with dwindling home crowds and defeats away in Northern ****holes on a Tuesday night is hardly enjoyable either.

What has to be happen is that if we are promoted, the club do not accept to be just there. I am not so much calling for us to spend ridiculous amounts to finish 15th, I just want us to be there and at least try to be entertaining. I would hate to return to those Pulis years.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Backofthenet on January 14, 2019, 02:44:29 PM
I became really disinterested in the Premier League when we were in it and have remained so as we're not in it.
However on a personal level I have no interest in us returning to that awful land where the rich get richer and continue to exploit the poor. Sky TV and Premier League fit very nicely together as far as I am concerned and are welcome to each other.
I also know only too well that continual membership of the Championship is not what the club would want as that has a knock on effect on income and the cash the 'business' makes. That's not to say that I want to back in the PL as the Championship has 'proper' teams that to me represent what football is all about and lets be fair, football actually began a long, long time before 1992. In my opinion it was also a lot better then as well.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: BigFrank20 on January 14, 2019, 03:37:12 PM
I will happily admit I haven't watched a single PL game all season either on TV or, god forbid, live and have probably only watched 20 mins of MOTD all season too
Don't miss it in the least
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Dexy on January 14, 2019, 03:40:36 PM
Wouldn't look forward to City and the likes but as long we could hold our own against the also rans I'd be happy enough .
Frankly I just don't want to go backwards into the bad days again .
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: skyclad99 on January 14, 2019, 04:03:34 PM
Wouldn't look forward to City and the likes but as long we could hold our own against the also rans I'd be happy enough .
Frankly I just don't want to go backwards into the bad days again .

Loved watching City show us how its done - proper football. However, I do agree with your thoughts on the matter.

In reply to Big Frank, I watched the Spurs/Manure game yesterday and thought it was a superb game. Was it my imagination or had Lukaku put a few pounds on???
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: liverbaggie on January 14, 2019, 07:31:55 PM
Thing is,we might just hit on our quality youngsters coming through having played in the championship with our experienced players,they might blend into a team like the Stathams Regis Robson's team.
You never know it might click and surprise everyone.
It's the hope that kills you.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: timdon on January 14, 2019, 08:05:35 PM
So to sum up the discussion so far

1 Most of us hate the Premier League

2 Most of us want to be in it.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: gazberg on January 14, 2019, 08:54:22 PM
All in all we are just a load of women " we dont know what we want!"
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: mr multivac on January 14, 2019, 09:07:58 PM
I know what I want I want us to be  able to produce ,discover our own players with out having to spend a fortune and have them competing with the likes of Manchester City in the premier League those players are out there they just need finding, we also need somebody to mould them into that team . I’d love it to be big Dave
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Atomic on January 14, 2019, 09:46:54 PM
I hate the Premier League and have absolutely no desire to be in it until the "top six" bugger off to some sort of Euro League. Better still they all go bust. It's is non-competitive, non-sporting, dull and hopeless for everyone other than the few. That gap between that few and everyone else has also all but killed the FA Cup and as for the Carabao Cup - meh!

That said I do understand the clubs need to be in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: ex coseley kid on January 14, 2019, 10:46:12 PM
I hate the Premier League and have absolutely no desire to be in it until the "top six" bugger off to some sort of Euro League. Better still they all go bust. It's is non-competitive, non-sporting, dull and hopeless for everyone other than the few. That gap between that few and everyone else has also all but killed the FA Cup and as for the Carabao Cup - meh!

That said I do understand the clubs need to be in the Premier League.

THIS - exactly this. Take the top six out of it and football has some meaning for the rest of us again. Money has screwed the whole spirit and joy out of the game. Euro league please.

And wherever we are after that mix I'll happily take. Sky and Murdoch, screw yourselves (if I can't say that mods, please make it sound prettier).
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 15, 2019, 10:23:27 AM
A couple of points in relation to posts above

@Hull, to maintain a mid table prem club £100m is no longer enough (see fulham), it can be that much a season, there are clearly exceptions but only one which springs to mind is Watford, Soton were generating their cash via sales but still investing it all back in plus money from Billionaire owners

I meant spend £100m next season (if we go up) to give us a fighting chance of being mid table, sorry it wasn't very clear!

If your reason in football is not to move forward then you will end up going backwards...

I want to go back up, if we come down again then so be it, but you always have to look towards promotion or there is no point in being in any league

I know what you mean but what you have said isn't strictly true as there is no promotion from the Premier League.
 It's more important for a team to improve each season once you've got to the Premier league whether that's through league placing or points gained or a better cup run
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Pie on January 15, 2019, 11:14:10 AM
Not read through the whole thread but I'm sure someone will have already answered how I feel.

In an ideal world I would happily stay in the championship for a while as this season has been great entertainment so far.

However in the real world I want us to go up as there are many parts of our club that depend on the money generated by the premier league. No doubt we would have to strip back our assets including players and staff (not just the coaches either) probably resulting in a lower quality of squad and match day experience.

I do also miss watching us on MOTD, especially after a win. makes the whole programme more enjoyable.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: SmethDan on January 15, 2019, 11:22:31 AM
Not read through the whole thread but I'm sure someone will have already answered how I feel.

In an ideal world I would happily stay in the championship for a while as this season has been great entertainment so far.

However in the real world I want us to go up as there are many parts of our club that depend on the money generated by the premier league. No doubt we would have to strip back our assets including players and staff (not just the coaches either) probably resulting in a lower quality of squad and match day experience.

I do also miss watching us on MOTD, especially after a win. makes the whole programme more enjoyable.

I wouldn't know about that as following an Albion win I was rarely back in time from my post match celebrations to watch MotD.

And when I was back in time I was usually asleep before we came on either toward or at the end.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Atomic on January 15, 2019, 11:24:04 AM
I wouldn't know about that as following an Albion win I was rarely back in time from my post match celebrations to watch MotD.

And when I was back in time I was usually asleep before we came on either toward or at the end.


Yep. That's me too.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: seteefeet on January 15, 2019, 11:31:45 AM
Not read through the whole thread but I'm sure someone will have already answered how I feel.

In an ideal world I would happily stay in the championship for a while as this season has been great entertainment so far.

However in the real world I want us to go up as there are many parts of our club that depend on the money generated by the premier league. No doubt we would have to strip back our assets including players and staff (not just the coaches either) probably resulting in a lower quality of squad and match day experience.

I do also miss watching us on MOTD, especially after a win. makes the whole programme more enjoyable.
Imagine being on MOTD and not being last  :o
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Backofthenet on January 15, 2019, 11:40:10 AM
I would really like us to get into the play-off finals every year and lose. That would be pretty successful but not going up. I know there will be loads who will berate me for this and say I have no ambition. My ambition is to follow and support the Albion (as I have for what is now 52 years since my first match) but sadly there is no enjoyment in playing to survive from the opening day of the season and not trying to win the league.
In a running race I would imagine that every person on the start line is trying to win but in the PL that is not the case.
Whilst Leicester winning the league was brilliant for them I don't think it helped the overall view of the PL because some always throw that in as an argument that anyone can win it. I can't see the so called big clubs allowing that to happen again and if 12 or so clubs aren't even trying that makes their job easier. 
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 15, 2019, 11:59:12 AM
Imagine being on MOTD and not being last  :o

so most of the time then!
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: SmethDan on January 15, 2019, 12:03:22 PM
I would really like us to get into the play-off finals every year and lose. That would be pretty successful but not going up. I know there will be loads who will berate me for this and say I have no ambition. My ambition is to follow and support the Albion (as I have for what is now 52 years since my first match) but sadly there is no enjoyment in playing to survive from the opening day of the season and not trying to win the league..............

Think I can understand your logic to a degree in regards having plenty of good days through the relative seasons etc, but I see things differently. I wasn't at the old Wembley for the Play Off Final win v Port Vale so my experience of that day was limited to the settee in somebody else's house. I was at the new Wembley for the defeat v Derby though and would genuinely hate to go through that feeling again, never mind every season or as a substitute for seeing how we did against Prem' clubs the following year. I'm very definitely out on this one.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Norfolk Baggie on January 15, 2019, 12:51:58 PM
So to answer the first question.  Yes I do want promotion.  My first reason for this, is that our ambition as a club must always be to play at the very highest standard possible, and this is the Premier League.  My second point is what will happen if we do not.  We have two years of parachute money, and an owner unwilling to invest anything but self generated funds.  Sorry to be pessimistic, but if we are not up within two years it will be a very different Albion we will be watching and we might find that somewhat less entertaining than our current incarnation.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Albion79 on January 15, 2019, 01:21:22 PM
As a fan i much prefer the championship, i like the fact there is probably 12-16 teams who start of the season fancy they could go up (there is always a section in every league who are unlikely to challenge)

Giving saturday just gone vs Norwich as example, i really enjoyed the game, would like us to of won of course but it was end to end, two teams trying to play football, trying to win with attacking football and a full house watching on.

However as a club i know the premier league is the place to be purely for the funding and exposure it brings, if you think to where we were as a club in 2002 when we first went up to where we are now as a club in terms of facilities, structures, academy, etc let alone the quality of players we have, it shows the benefits of the premier league money.

Back in the 90's i remember us reguarly playing Oldham and Port Vale at the same level, where as we reached the 'promised land', they didnt and gradually declined and look at them now.

All the above is how the premier league helped the club, but as a fan the novelty had long wore off before last seasons relegation. I also think how you approach the premier league is a big factor, go up targeting certain games, waving the white flag at others, it becomes tedious.

However using Wolves as an example, i like what they have done, they have gone up, had a go at teams, not changed their style too much and beat a tough opponent in the FA cup and will now fancy there chances of getting quite far, i like their approach.

Dont get me wrong i still think they will finish midtable and get nowhere near europe (as some of their deluded fans thought) but i like the way the way they have approached matches and as a fan if we went up, i would like us to do that, we wouldnt have the money they did but we can still play with style, we might get a few batterings along the way but we would also get some surprise results too.

Thats the only way as a fan i would like us to go back up, having a go when we get there, and if you get relegated, you try to get back up and have a go, either way promotion and relegation are exciting! And as much stick as Peace and Jenkins got / get, the way we are run means we dont have to have a firesale like lots of other clubs, it means we can keep good players so we should always be challenging for promotion for the first season or two after relegation.

There will come a point where that doesnt come off but i think you have to be careful with 3 / 5 / 10 year plans anyway because in football, nobody lasts that long to fulfill the plans!
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Oldbury24 on January 15, 2019, 01:50:55 PM
From experience it seems to me that the ideal scenario for a club without third party financial backing is to accept the inevitability of being a yo-yo club between the top two divisions.   The key being to have players on salary clauses and spending within the clubs income budget.  This avoids ending up with an almost desperate need avoid relegation which results in appointments like the capped one (lets face it the appointment wasn't really needed by the club, it was only JP's panic that he might lose out on his bumper payday that bought him in).   

Without the desperation to stay up it's possible to actually have a go at even the top teams, so you get your few days in the sun.  Yes, you strive to stay up but relegation becomes another chance for promotion rather than the end of the footballing world.  It does mean that you end up shopping for bargains eg Mulumbu, Odenwengie, Ollson, GMac or picking out the odd gem on loan eg Lukaku and Barnes this year but I struggle to think of any big name's that have come into the club and had half the positive impact that they did. It is obvious that the recruitment team is all important to success but hopefully Holgate is a sign of the quality to come.

In this scenario you admittedly end up with a squad that is not quite good enough for the Premier League. However with a good manager and the odd run of form you may stay up one year (Huddersfield) or even several (Albion) but there is no guarantee of an extended stay (Albion).  However, following relegation you have the financial resources to keep a few (Dawson, JRod, Phillips) but also sell a few (Evans, Foster, Chadli) re-invest well and you have a team that is now very competitive in the Championship.   After a year of having a go but struggling in the PL you then have a year of goals and wins in the Championship which will hopefully lead to promotion (if not first time around ,then within the two years).

So its not so much about not wanting promotion but more about accepting relegation for what it is.  That without serious financial backing there is no way of guaranteeing an extended stay in the Premier League and in Fulhams case even £100 million doesn't look enough.   With this model, on relegation the club are already planning for the next promotion tilt and your finances are built around.   An acceptance of this might also free up the managers to actually have a go at the cups please!!!! This is where the glory lies for the fans and there is nothing like seeing the Albion win at Wembley (Kevin Donavon is still a hero).

I can only talk up the virtues of this model from seeing it working first hand.  It doesn't seem to work for all clubs but seemed to suit us.  We don't have a sugar daddy and we know what we are :). 

   



Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: keithowba86 on January 15, 2019, 02:57:01 PM
i want to definately see us promoted as the following will happen...

The club gets £100million
Lai takes it all out, then sells us for a slight loss

equals a profit for mr lai and we get a new owner who 'may' pump some cash in!!
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: leeiswba on January 15, 2019, 07:15:00 PM
i want to definately see us promoted as the following will happen...

The club gets £100million
Lai takes it all out, then sells us for a slight loss

equals a profit for mr lai and we get a new owner who 'may' pump some cash in!!

That can’t happen unfortunately
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: BigFrank20 on January 15, 2019, 07:27:40 PM
I wasn't at the old Wembley for the Play Off Final win v Port Vale so my experience of that day was limited to the settee in somebody else's house. I was at the new Wembley for the defeat v Derby though and would genuinely hate to go through that feeling again, .
You know what mate you have made me remember that a good day out at Wembley has a lot of appeal
COYB SOTV
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: costa blanca baggie on January 15, 2019, 08:54:17 PM
You know what mate you have made me remember that a good day out at Wembley has a lot of appeal
COYB SOTV
A good WINNING day.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: WBArgo on January 15, 2019, 09:01:31 PM
This season has reminded me how soulless the Premier League is, and I don't miss it for what it is - especially the irritating 'pundits' who are overly critical to make a name for themselves...amongst many other things.

But...it has to be said. As a human being, it is nature to want the best and be competitive; and what is the point of football if you don't want to see your team compete at the highest level, or enjoy the thrill of a promotion?

So, I'm torn. I'd like to play in the Premier League without the plastic nonsense which it comes with. I don't think is realistic though and so I am unsure.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: wba_1996 on January 16, 2019, 01:25:27 AM
If Bournemouth, a League 1-sized club with no financial advantage over other Prem clubs, can get promoted and comfortably stay midtable with a young squad playing decent football, then anyone can. You need a decent head coach, a clear recruitment strategy coming from above the level of the current head coach, a good scouting network and an owner/board who plan for the long term.

We're a bigger club than the majority of bottom-half Prem sides, we're at no disadvantage other than the fact we employ crap head coaches and have awful recruitment and zero long-term (or even medium-term) planning. Whether Dowling and Moore are the men to create a long-term recruitment strategy (I have serious doubts), and whether Jenkins would even let them (again, serious doubts) we will have to wait and see.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: overseas baggie on January 16, 2019, 01:54:48 AM
If Bournemouth, a League 1-sized club with no financial advantage over other Prem clubs, can get promoted and comfortably stay midtable with a young squad playing decent football, then anyone can. You need a decent head coach, a clear recruitment strategy coming from above the level of the current head coach, a good scouting network and an owner/board who plan for the long term.

We're a bigger club than the majority of bottom-half Prem sides, we're at no disadvantage other than the fact we employ crap head coaches and have awful recruitment and zero long-term (or even medium-term) planning. Whether Dowling and Moore are the men to create a long-term recruitment strategy (I have serious doubts), and whether Jenkins would even let them (again, serious doubts) we will have to wait and see.

You’ve hit the nail on the head, and the right people heading up re recruitment strategy would pay for themselves many times over.

I’d offer Ashworth double what’s he’s on at Brighton plus a share of the profits, regardless of whether those profits come from transfer dealings or from Premier League money (so that selling players isn’t the only option).

Build a strong Academy, bring the players through, sell a few gems for big money, invest in top young players from the Championshop/League 1/abroad and use transfer profits to build a strong squad capable of doing well in the PL.  The Southampton model, other than that they invested appallingly after selling some of their stars.  Maybe it’s even the Bournemouth model if they sell Wilson and Brooks for £90m and invest in 5 or 6 quality replacements.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: FallOutBoy on January 16, 2019, 01:05:59 PM
If Bournemouth, a League 1-sized club with no financial advantage over other Prem clubs, can get promoted and comfortably stay midtable with a young squad playing decent football, then anyone can. You need a decent head coach, a clear recruitment strategy coming from above the level of the current head coach, a good scouting network and an owner/board who plan for the long term.

We're a bigger club than the majority of bottom-half Prem sides, we're at no disadvantage other than the fact we employ crap head coaches and have awful recruitment and zero long-term (or even medium-term) planning. Whether Dowling and Moore are the men to create a long-term recruitment strategy (I have serious doubts), and whether Jenkins would even let them (again, serious doubts) we will have to wait and see.

I won't argue with the second part of that, but I have to take issue with the first. Bournemouth do have a well-heeled owner who supports them through cash injections (or at least did to get them up). They got fined nearly £5 million by the football league for breaking FFP

Story - https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11743/11426730/bournemouth-agree-4-75m-settlement-with-efl-for-breach-of-ffp-rules
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Backofthenet on January 16, 2019, 01:29:26 PM
The question posed about wanting promotion is really interesting and has seen some well thought out responses supported with solid reasoning.
I would invite someone from the club to state their objective which will obviously point out they do want promotion.
We can then see if they back the words with action. I'm not meaning a gung ho attititude in the transfer window but what we have mostly agreed on to be the real strengthening of our squad with quality signings.
I also accept that these are not easy to find but the names with have been 'linked with' correctly or otherwise almost bring me to despair.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 16, 2019, 01:44:28 PM
If Phillips does go, it will that our management and heirach don't want to go up.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: overseas baggie on January 16, 2019, 07:08:18 PM
I won't argue with the second part of that, but I have to take issue with the first. Bournemouth do have a well-heeled owner who supports them through cash injections (or at least did to get them up). They got fined nearly £5 million by the football league for breaking FFP

Story - https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11743/11426730/bournemouth-agree-4-75m-settlement-with-efl-for-breach-of-ffp-rules

Yes but Bournemouth owner can’t spend more than their wage cap limit under STCC, notwithstanding his wealth.  Can spend a lot on transfer fees but this players still need to be paid.

They were lucky with their fine.  QPR effectively fined £42m (was on another scale and they got relegated)
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: WBArgo on January 16, 2019, 10:33:46 PM
If Bournemouth, a League 1-sized club with no financial advantage over other Prem clubs, can get promoted and comfortably stay midtable with a young squad playing decent football, then anyone can. You need a decent head coach, a clear recruitment strategy coming from above the level of the current head coach, a good scouting network and an owner/board who plan for the long term.

We're a bigger club than the majority of bottom-half Prem sides, we're at no disadvantage other than the fact we employ crap head coaches and have awful recruitment and zero long-term (or even medium-term) planning. Whether Dowling and Moore are the men to create a long-term recruitment strategy (I have serious doubts), and whether Jenkins would even let them (again, serious doubts) we will have to wait and see.

The problem is a bit deeper than that though, at least to some I assume.

Bournemouth's time will come, as will Watford, Brighton and various others. We were once the talk of the poorer sides and poster-boys of doing well on a budget, then Swansea followed etc; years before us it was Charlton too who had good youth players. These clubs all had new ideas and philosophies which gained some fame. But ultimately, outside of the top 6 - it's a revolving door and at some stage you get kicked out, replaced by a newer, more fashionable model of running a football club...for the time being at least.

There is no real long-term outside of the top 6. Bournemouth have been in the Premier League less than we were and have been in there for 5 minutes in reality. When/if Eddie Howe goes, there's a good chance it will crumble. Perhaps not immediately but maybe 3 years after or so; it only takes one bad season and a bit of bad luck and you are down.

This is why people are fed-up, because teams like Bournemouth are seen as the bench mark. And although that may be the reality, you have to wonder what is the point if finishing in mid-table is the dream?

The only way of cracking it these days is trying the Wolves route which is getting lucky with a high-spending billionaire. Even then, there's no guarantees and it could still end in tears.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Oldbury24 on January 17, 2019, 06:52:58 PM
If Bournemouth, a League 1-sized club with no financial advantage over other Prem clubs, can get promoted and comfortably stay midtable with a young squad playing decent football, then anyone can. You need a decent head coach, a clear recruitment strategy coming from above the level of the current head coach, a good scouting network and an owner/board who plan for the long term.

We're a bigger club than the majority of bottom-half Prem sides, we're at no disadvantage other than the fact we employ crap head coaches and have awful recruitment and zero long-term (or even medium-term) planning. Whether Dowling and Moore are the men to create a long-term recruitment strategy (I have serious doubts), and whether Jenkins would even let them (again, serious doubts) we will have to wait and see.

Bournemouth have spent nearly £70 million quid this year, with a net spend of nearly £50 million.   That may be Premier League small fry but could not be done without somebody having deepish pockets. 
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: overseas baggie on January 17, 2019, 07:57:41 PM
Bournemouth have spent nearly £70 million quid this year, with a net spend of nearly £50 million.   That may be Premier League small fry but could not be done without somebody having deepish pockets.

Deep pockets (capital) can buy expensive players but it doesn’t help with paying the wages of expensive players because of the wage cap. A £40m player signed on a 3-year contract on £100k/week is a £60m commitment. That’s just one expensive player.  PL wage bill is only allowed to rise by £7m a year once the limit is reached.  That’s used up by just signing one and a half such top players, leaving nothing for contract extensions/pay rises for other squad players.

What’s wrong with the FFP/STCC rules is that it creates a closed shop for the big 6.  If Bournemouth’s owner, or Wolves owner, are able and willing to put up cash to guarantee the wage bill surplus (over the limit) for 3 years ahead, so that it doesn’t burden the club with debt (ie is entirely at the owner’s risk), then why shouldn’t they?
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: wba_1996 on January 18, 2019, 01:48:52 AM
Bournemouth have spent nearly £70 million quid this year, with a net spend of nearly £50 million.   That may be Premier League small fry but could not be done without somebody having deepish pockets.

A lot of these players being signed for £15-20m from mid-lower table foreign clubs will have been on less than £15k pw at their former clubs. We paid the likes of Morrison £50k pw and signing experienced British players like Evans means you're looking at £70k+ pw. Take a look at the highest earners at Prem clubs, they're always the experienced guys who have been signed from fellow Prem clubs.

Young English players from lower leagues and foreign players who have never played in England are the ways to go. Transfer fees are irrelevant, wages are the main thing restricted by FFP, last season our wage bill was higher than Bournemouth's.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: SmethDan on January 18, 2019, 10:34:55 AM
Deep pockets (capital) can buy expensive players but it doesn’t help with paying the wages of expensive players because of the wage cap. A £40m player signed on a 3-year contract on £100k/week is a £60m commitment. That’s just one expensive player.  PL wage bill is only allowed to rise by £7m a year once the limit is reached.  That’s used up by just signing one and a half such top players, leaving nothing for contract extensions/pay rises for other squad players.

What’s wrong with the FFP/STCC rules is that it creates a closed shop for the big 6.  If Bournemouth’s owner, or Wolves owner, are able and willing to put up cash to guarantee the wage bill surplus (over the limit) for 3 years ahead, so that it doesn’t burden the club with debt (ie is entirely at the owner’s risk), then why shouldn’t they?


Very true but from memory Bournemouth had an inflated wage bill and general costs which landed them in bother with the authorities on promotion. Although this was eventually addressed via a next to nothing fine, that inflated wage bill effectively increased the level they started from in relation to what they could pay new players following promotion and in subsequent years.

By taking such a gamble they cocked a snoop to the authorities by putting themselves one step ahead of their newly promoted rivals and teams who adhere to the rules. Interestingly (again from memory) and despite his reputation for parsimony, Jeremy Peace was one of the few chairmen of the time who voted against FFP/STCC as it created a ceiling for teams even in the event of takeover.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: overseas baggie on January 18, 2019, 11:43:12 AM
Very true but from memory Bournemouth had an inflated wage bill and general costs which landed them in bother with the authorities on promotion. Although this was eventually addressed via a next to nothing fine, that inflated wage bill effectively increased the level they started from in relation to what they could pay new players following promotion and in subsequent years.

By taking such a gamble they cocked a snoop to the authorities by putting themselves one step ahead of their newly promoted rivals and teams who adhere to the rules. Interestingly (again from memory) and despite his reputation for parsimony, Jeremy Peace was one of the few chairmen of the time who voted against FFP/STCC as it created a ceiling for teams even in the event of takeover.

100% correct

Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: SmethDan on January 19, 2019, 01:37:45 AM
100% correct

Stumbled across an interesting (if long winded) article in Four Four Two a couple of hours back.

Looks in some detail into the losses incurred and gambles taken in the Championship.

Well worth a read in anyone's spare time.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/financial-fair-play-vs-fairy-tales-football-leagues-intractable-fiscal-conundrum
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: overseas baggie on January 19, 2019, 03:22:13 AM
Stumbled across an interesting (if long winded) article in Four Four Two a couple of hours back.

Looks in some detail into the losses incurred and gambles taken in the Championship.

Well worth a read in anyone's spare time.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/financial-fair-play-vs-fairy-tales-football-leagues-intractable-fiscal-conundrum

Very interesting read. The big that stands out is that 87% of cash for Championship clubs comes from owner investment.  All the more reason for Lai to hell ensure that we get up by end of 2019/20 at the latest
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 19, 2019, 08:53:33 AM
Stumbled across an interesting (if long winded) article in Four Four Two a couple of hours back.

Looks in some detail into the losses incurred and gambles taken in the Championship.

Well worth a read in anyone's spare time.

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/financial-fair-play-vs-fairy-tales-football-leagues-intractable-fiscal-conundrum
Thanks for a great link mate. I have to say that having read that, I am glad that we have Mark Jenkins to guide us through some pretty murky waters, and not his predecessors. Quite where it all ends up goodness only knows, but the sooner we unload these very overpaid, very average players, and reboot with our own youngsters ,and the best of our affordable acquisitions the better. I for one think that to be the best way forward , and if that is in the Championship, well so be it. 
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: AlbionFan on January 19, 2019, 09:41:00 AM
Whether fans want promotion or not, it's likely the clubs future depends on it.

Personally, I am enjoying the Championship for obvious reasons, but is remaining as a the Championship club sustainable?
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 19, 2019, 10:22:01 AM
The Championship is fun because we are winning a few games with attacking football. If we get up, surely we can still attack the lower half teams to still give us that buzz.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: colinmax on January 19, 2019, 11:53:59 AM
The advantage of the Premiership is that you see more of the world's best players and have better media coverage.

The Championship is better because costs are generally lower and you have 4 more home games.

As regards the games ignoring the top 6 or 7 would we really prefer matches against the likes of Cardiff,Burnley and Huddersfield than those against teams such as Leeds,Derby and Norwich?
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: OldburyWBA on January 19, 2019, 01:06:46 PM
The advantage of the Premiership is that you see more of the world's best players and have better media coverage.

The Championship is better because costs are generally lower and you have 4 more home games.

As regards the games ignoring the top 6 or 7 would we really prefer matches against the likes of Cardiff,Burnley and Huddersfield than those against teams such as Leeds,Derby and Norwich?

Thats one thing that has never appealed to me, have never felt the urge to go to a game to see any particular player, only ever gone to watch us.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 19, 2019, 08:30:23 PM
Thats one thing that has never appealed to me, have never felt the urge to go to a game to see any particular player, only ever gone to watch us.
Me too Oldbury, and I have quite enjoyed the fact that I have known very little about opposition players this season.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: gerry m on January 19, 2019, 08:40:41 PM
Sadly i think it's a case of need not want. Here we are in the Championship and seemingly cannot buy players due to FFP. Parachute payments are supposedly £40m and our wage bill is supposedly £38m. Having said that i am enjoying this season doing well and playing good football. Someone said that the Championship  has got a lot of poor teams but this is a tough division.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: overseas baggie on January 19, 2019, 09:27:14 PM
Sadly i think it's a case of need not want. Here we are in the Championship and seemingly cannot buy players due to FFP. Parachute payments are supposedly £40m and our wage bill is supposedly £38m. Having said that i am enjoying this season doing well and playing good football. Someone said that the Championship  has got a lot of poor teams but this is a tough division.

It’s not FFP currently stopping us, it’s lack of cash
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: B_H_Baggie on January 20, 2019, 06:29:57 PM
To try and safeguard the future of the club as much as possible we all know the money that comes with promotion is absolutely crucial. I genuinely fear for us going forward regardless, if we don't go up then we have to cut costs even further and have an ageing squad that already needs refreshing. However if we do go up we simply can't compete financially so we go back to being a struggling club barely winning a game again.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on January 21, 2019, 08:21:41 AM
in two minds on this.

if we go up, great, we have had a successful season. but then we go into next season in survival mode. mediocre players that took us down end up staying on there high wages as well.

if we stay in the championship, some will see it as a failed season. i see it as a great chance for the club to rebuild much like we did in the promotion season under Mowbray. we sold players and rebuilt a whole squad for what was one of our most exciting and entertaining seasons for a long time.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: tuamigos on January 21, 2019, 08:57:30 AM
If we had a choice I'd choose to stay in the Championship unless we have the clout to compete on a day to day basis with rest of the teams in the Prem.
The cold hard facts are that we have to go up for financial reasons and then try to get 38 draws to stay in the greed league.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: darbolina on January 21, 2019, 10:44:45 AM
Not me. That is unless we suddenly wake up tomorrow as a club who can and wants to compete to achieve something - a cup win, to push on.

The reality would be we'd be happy to make up the numbers to earn a few bob for the shareholders, players etc.... but the football would be worse, defensive, more losses what's the point of us being in the premier league?
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: kendo on January 21, 2019, 11:03:05 AM
I doubt if we will have to worry to much about that one. Some of the oldies we have got and the out of dates we are linked with does not show to much ambition on that prospect. It is almost like if you know the manager you get a contract, just bring your own zimmer frame.






Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: letmereadposts on January 21, 2019, 12:33:26 PM
in two minds on this.

if we go up, great, we have had a successful season. but then we go into next season in survival mode. mediocre players that took us down end up staying on there high wages as well.

if we stay in the championship, some will see it as a failed season. i see it as a great chance for the club to rebuild much like we did in the promotion seasony underu Mowbray. we sold players and rebuilt a whole squad for what was one of our most exciting and entertaining seasons for a long time.

My fear is we won’t have the same level of funds available, and as a consequence the least competitive championship squad for a very long time. These fears are valid with the lack of ambition in recruiting properly this month.

My gut says we really need to go straight back up.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: paulosull on January 22, 2019, 08:29:03 AM
Need to go up just to get rid of owner if not we could end up like Bolton.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: timdon on January 22, 2019, 09:56:22 AM
Need to go up just to get rid of owner if not we could end up like Bolton.
And your line of thought to reach this conclusion is what exactly?
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: skyclad99 on January 22, 2019, 10:17:22 AM
And your line of thought to reach this conclusion is what exactly?

I am guessing that it will be along the same lines as Mr Peace - a club looks a more attractive proposition when it is in the greed league, so I can understand what he means. However, I dont think that there is anyone on this planet stupid enough to give Mr Lai what he paid out initially whilst we are in our present condition.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Albionic on January 22, 2019, 10:59:09 AM
I am guessing that it will be along the same lines as Mr Peace - a club looks a more attractive proposition when it is in the greed league, so I can understand what he means. However, I dont think that there is anyone on this planet stupid enough to give Mr Lai what he paid out initially whilst we are in our present condition.

Its a fair bet that Lai thought he was buying a reasonably secure prem team, 7 years in the league .....

Any new prospective owner would have zero years, an aging squad with a number of loanees which just scrapes out of chumps as the prospect, no where near as attractive a proposition.
value??? £80-100M tops, as we are likely to come straight back down and the players and agents will have taken most of the 1 years premiership cash out of the club.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: liverbaggie on January 22, 2019, 11:42:53 AM
Why do people think he will sell,why should he?
If ,sorry when we get back to the prem the worldwide advertising if his company must be worth millions to him.
Its a good businessman who owns a company that ticks along nicely and he doesn't have to put his hand in his own pocket,what would you do?
On the other hand at least he doesn't try to run wba in a hands on way like some who love the sound of their own voices.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Albionic on January 22, 2019, 12:46:13 PM
Why do people think he will sell,why should he?
If ,sorry when we get back to the prem the worldwide advertising if his company must be worth millions to him.
Its a good businessman who owns a company that ticks along nicely and he doesn't have to put his hand in his own pocket,what would you do?
On the other hand at least he doesn't try to run wba in a hands on way like some who love the sound of their own voices.

Agree, why would he sell for a lot more than he paid, when there is an income stream the size of the TV money. In my opinion, he will keep the club and reduce the amount taken out by players & agents thus improving "profitability"
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: FallOutBoy on January 22, 2019, 01:00:42 PM
Need to go up just to get rid of owner if not we could end up like Bolton.

Actually going up is probably detrimental to finding a new owner. If we get promotion, Lai would probably only accept an offer of what he paid or higher, even though we'd be in a worse position.

Stay in this division and he might sell us off as he can't sustain this division. But he'd have to take a big hit.
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: skyclad99 on January 22, 2019, 01:12:37 PM
Why do people think he will sell,why should he?
If ,sorry when we get back to the prem the worldwide advertising if his company must be worth millions to him.
Its a good businessman who owns a company that ticks along nicely and he doesn't have to put his hand in his own pocket,what would you do?
On the other hand at least he doesn't try to run wba in a hands on way like some who love the sound of their own voices.

Not sure anyone has said he wants to sell, or is looking to sell. I think the point was that if/when we go up his stock is in a better position, and I think that there is faint hope from some posters that he will sell, but again its a case of 'better the devil you know'.

Next bloke in could promise to make the club 'as big as Barcelona in five years', borrow heavily against the club and buy a load of big time charlies, fail in his slightly ambitious plan and leave us with a huge debt that sees us do a Portsmouth.........or worse.     
Title: Re: Who really wants promotion?
Post by: Albionic on January 22, 2019, 02:30:53 PM
Not sure anyone has said he wants to sell, or is looking to sell. I think the point was that if/when we go up his stock is in a better position, and I think that there is faint hope from some posters that he will sell, but again its a case of 'better the devil you know'.

Next bloke in could promise to make the club 'as big as Barcelona in five years', borrow heavily against the club and buy a load of big time charlies, fail in his slightly ambitious plan and leave us with a huge debt that sees us do a Portsmouth.........or worse.     

or he could convince the fanbase that we have champions league potential, bring in a load of quality foreign players and a foreign manager, and turn us all into deluded knuckle dragging mustard wearing inbreds !