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Do you want Sam to stay as manager?

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Author Topic: Sam Allardyce  (Read 599223 times)

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leeiswba

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1475 on: January 12, 2021, 10:31:48 PM »
By the time this game comes around Allardyce has had half of January to get in a central midfielder and has failed.

Sawyers or Livermore and a Loss is a formality.

Failing that play Harper, how can he actually be any worse?

It’s Dowlings job not Allardyce, but I’m sure you know that really

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1476 on: January 12, 2021, 10:36:45 PM »
I agree with you Greg but neither Bilic or Allardyce can do a thing about that. THats the higher ups jobs.

It is to do with Allardyce.  It's up to him to highlight these "diamonds" from Europe. If they are cheap enough Dowling can get them over the line.  The British Market is notoriously inflated.  If Allardyce is limiting himself there, he is taking a massive risk.

We are messing around IMO.  We have another 3 or 4 league fixtures before end of Jan.  It's slipping away with every passing game.

Our players are not only inadequate technically but are mentally shot.  We have been losing by a big margin. 

Bilic got a tune from them to the value of 7pts from 13 games (and should've been more).  Allardyce is struggling right now, no 2 ways about it.

We've got no chance with just 2 or 3 signings (and right at the end of Jan).

leeiswba

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1477 on: January 12, 2021, 10:42:49 PM »
It is to do with Allardyce.  It's up to him to highlight these "diamonds" from Europe. If they are cheap enough Dowling can get them over the line.  The British Market is notoriously inflated.  If Allardyce is limiting himself there, he is taking a massive risk.


Someone correct me if I am wrong but I’m fairly sure it’s the other way around, it’s it Dowlings job to come to Allardyce with the ‘diamonds’ from Europe.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1478 on: January 12, 2021, 10:45:47 PM »
It is to do with Allardyce.  It's up to him to highlight these "diamonds" from Europe. If they are cheap enough Dowling can get them over the line.  The British Market is notoriously inflated.  If Allardyce is limiting himself there, he is taking a massive risk.

We are messing around IMO.  We have another 3 or 4 league fixtures before end of Jan.  It's slipping away with every passing game.

Our players are not only inadequate technically but are mentally shot.  We have been losing by a big margin. 

Bilic got a tune from them to the value of 7pts from 13 games (and should've been more).  Allardyce is struggling right now, no 2 ways about it.

We've got no chance with just 2 or 3 signings (and right at the end of Jan).


For us to use any of our foreign loans was incredibly naive. Now with new Brexit rules it makes them a lot harder to just go to Europe.

Allardyce himself said he had 3 signings lined up but all fell foul to immigration rules.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2021, 11:01:59 PM by gazberg »

GREGMT

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1479 on: January 12, 2021, 10:52:06 PM »
Someone correct me if I am wrong but I’m fairly sure it’s the other way around, it’s it Dowlings job to come to Allardyce with the ‘diamonds’ from Europe.

What are you talking about?

Allardyce was a professional centre back for Bolton, Sunderland plus a few others.  He has managed for 25 years.  He has a lifetime in football.

Dowling's knowledge is not as comprehensive.  Dowling is surely a link man between Chairman and Manager (SA)?

Allardyce should be pulling the strings not Dowling signing players, surely?


Baggies

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1480 on: January 12, 2021, 11:05:32 PM »
What are you talking about?

Allardyce was a professional centre back for Bolton, Sunderland plus a few others.  He has managed for 25 years.  He has a lifetime in football.

Dowling's knowledge is not as comprehensive.  Dowling is surely a link man between Chairman and Manager (SA)?

Allardyce should be pulling the strings not Dowling signing players, surely?

Going a bit off topic here, but the role of a director of football is to manage the football operation, including scouting and recruitment, while the role of the head coach is to coach, prepare the team for match days and the on the day performance.

This is squarely on Dowling, albeit Allardyce will have his input (as seems to be the case).
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GREGMT

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1481 on: January 12, 2021, 11:17:42 PM »
Going a bit off topic here, but the role of a director of football is to manage the football operation, including scouting and recruitment, while the role of the head coach is to coach, prepare the team for match days and the on the day performance.

This is squarely on Dowling, albeit Allardyce will have his input (as seems to be the case).

That might seem correct in principle. 

In reality, can you really see Dowling dictating to the fearsome Allardyce on who he should sign?  Because I can't visualise that, never in a million years.....

5 league matches between now and 2 February.  The clock is ticking.....   No way can we afford to wait until 31 January.

Wolves AWAY
WHU AWAY
Man C HOME

next 3 matches.

The whole point of sacking Bilic was to revitalise the playing squad, a toughening up process, belief, being streetwise.

We have done nothing apart from Snodgrass.

LiamTheBaggie

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1482 on: January 12, 2021, 11:43:25 PM »
What are you talking about?

Allardyce was a professional centre back for Bolton, Sunderland plus a few others.  He has managed for 25 years.  He has a lifetime in football.

Dowling's knowledge is not as comprehensive.  Dowling is surely a link man between Chairman and Manager (SA)?

Allardyce should be pulling the strings not Dowling signing players, surely?

Dowling is responsible for player recruitment and negotiations for transfers.

And yes, that will include signing players - It’s why we ended up with Kipre in the summer and both Austin and Zohore previously.

 Had the head coach had total control then Bilic would have signed Grant and Krovinovic at the start of the summer.

Allardyce will have his suggestions but it is up to Dowling to get them over the line.

You also talk of Allardyce limiting us to a British market - that totally ignores the whole Dowling approach which has seen pretty much all of his business completed domestically.

Hammering Allardyce for this issue of not getting players in quick enough when he has consistently championed the need to get bodies in is just attacking him for the sake of it.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1483 on: January 12, 2021, 11:57:51 PM »
Dowling is responsible for player recruitment and negotiations for transfers.

And yes, that will include signing players - It’s why we ended up with Kipre in the summer and both Austin and Zohore previously.

 Had the head coach had total control then Bilic would have signed Grant and Krovinovic at the start of the summer.

Allardyce will have his suggestions but it is up to Dowling to get them over the line.

You also talk of Allardyce limiting us to a British market - that totally ignores the whole Dowling approach which has seen pretty much all of his business completed domestically.

Hammering Allardyce for this issue of not getting players in quick enough when he has consistently championed the need to get bodies in is just attacking him for the sake of it.

Allardyce's head is on the chopping block.  Just in the same way sections of the fan base wanted Bilic hustled and hounded out.  Despite 7 pts from 13 games and a blank refusal to acknowledge valuable points lost due to VAR.

We are just sleep walking to disaster.  We have been mullered by everyone apart from the 2 "*pool" matches and the latter was embarrassing.

If I was Allardyce I'd be straining every sinew to overturn the playing staff as they are completely gone, mentally shot. Whereas it was working up to a point for Bilic, its completely broken right now.

The failure to add reinforcements 13 days in is a failure already. 

Are people just going to shrug their shoulders if its 5-0 at Molineux?

tuamigos

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1484 on: January 13, 2021, 07:28:43 AM »
Allardyce's head is on the chopping block.  Just in the same way sections of the fan base wanted Bilic hustled and hounded out.  Despite 7 pts from 13 games and a blank refusal to acknowledge valuable points lost due to VAR.

We are just sleep walking to disaster.  We have been mullered by everyone apart from the 2 "*pool" matches and the latter was embarrassing.

If I was Allardyce I'd be straining every sinew to overturn the playing staff as they are completely gone, mentally shot. Whereas it was working up to a point for Bilic, its completely broken right now.

The failure to add reinforcements 13 days in is a failure already. 

Are people just going to shrug their shoulders if its 5-0 at Molineux?

What else is there to do?
Get all bitter and twisted.
We can't vote with our feet, we can't use our voice, we can attack on social media but doesn't have the same effect imo.
We have to face facts and accept that we are the worst team in the league and could be heading for the label of the worst team in Premier League history.
It will take time and a lot of changes, but we will be back (said in an Austrian accent)
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skyclad99

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1485 on: January 13, 2021, 07:39:14 AM »
Allardyce's head is on the chopping block.  Just in the same way sections of the fan base wanted Bilic hustled and hounded out.  Despite 7 pts from 13 games and a blank refusal to acknowledge valuable points lost due to VAR.

We are just sleep walking to disaster.  We have been mullered by everyone apart from the 2 "*pool" matches and the latter was embarrassing.

If I was Allardyce I'd be straining every sinew to overturn the playing staff as they are completely gone, mentally shot. Whereas it was working up to a point for Bilic, its completely broken right now.

The failure to add reinforcements 13 days in is a failure already. 

Are people just going to shrug their shoulders if its 5-0 at Molineux?

We have known that ever since we realised that the owner was not going to invest in the team. Mourinho could not get a tune out of this team so it is pointless blaming Sam. We have some talented players, but we need more quality in the team and Dowling can only recruit with the funds he has been provided with.

I would respect Sam if he just resigned due to lack of backing, we are a complete shambles, and yes it may be 5-0 on Saturday. Anything less will be half a result for us. If we got a point I would be ecstatic but I am not expecting anything, and I know who I blame for this whole debacle.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1486 on: January 13, 2021, 08:13:23 AM »

For us to use any of our foreign loans was incredibly naive. Now with new Brexit rules it makes them a lot harder to just go to Europe.

Allardyce himself said he had 3 signings lined up but all fell foul to immigration rules.

Those same new immigration rules which Allardyce should have known about before he took the role?  Brexit has been hurtling towards us for a long time.  It is simply not an acceptable excuse.  We can only acquire players who meet the new criteria, abs because of COVID they are likely to have to do 14 days isolation on arrival, and then get matchfit after that. 

It is all far too late to be bringing in players from abroad.  They should have been lined up and arriving in the first week of January.  As a result we are limited to players who are already in the country.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1487 on: January 13, 2021, 08:16:52 AM »
We have known that ever since we realised that the owner was not going to invest in the team. Mourinho could not get a tune out of this team so it is pointless blaming Sam. We have some talented players, but we need more quality in the team and Dowling can only recruit with the funds he has been provided with.

I would respect Sam if he just resigned due to lack of backing, we are a complete shambles, and yes it may be 5-0 on Saturday. Anything less will be half a result for us. If we got a point I would be ecstatic but I am not expecting anything, and I know who I blame for this whole debacle.

So according to your theory, you would think the previous manager would have been absolved of blame too?

But no certain fans thought it wise to remove him and get in the current man.

So you think a lack of transfer action now means Allardyce can have a free ride until May even if we continue to get tanked 4 or 5 nil in league games?

skyclad99

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1488 on: January 13, 2021, 08:56:15 AM »
So according to your theory, you would think the previous manager would have been absolved of blame too?

But no certain fans thought it wise to remove him and get in the current man.

So you think a lack of transfer action now means Allardyce can have a free ride until May even if we continue to get tanked 4 or 5 nil in league games?

Bilic should not be entirely absolved of blame. Some players are here because of him [good and bad] and his style could have been effective had there been more investment - we will never know.

Sam is now here and needs time to get his own players in. If there is a lack of transfer action, then who's fault is that because it certainly isn't Sam's?

I very much doubt he will get a free ride until May if he gets at least some of his players in, but given our predicament then I cannot think of any other manager who would do better with the resources and money available. If we dont procure any more players then we will probably get tonked in most games, as we do not deserve to be in this league.   
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1489 on: January 13, 2021, 09:12:57 AM »
If we don't procure any additions to our squad we'll be making a declaration of surrender without having declared war. I'd love to be a fly on the wall of Dowling's office. His face is already too big for the rest of his head and must be about to pop with frustration at the mo'. He'll be a right sight should we reach deadline day with no additions. Imagery can be a funny old thing  ;D .
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1490 on: January 13, 2021, 09:19:04 AM »
Going a bit off topic here, but the role of a director of football is to manage the football operation, including scouting and recruitment, while the role of the head coach is to coach, prepare the team for match days and the on the day performance.

This is squarely on Dowling, albeit Allardyce will have his input (as seems to be the case).

continuing off topic, if that is the extent of Allardyces duties and also allegedly Sammy Lee takes coaching sessions most of the time with Allardyce rolling up on thursday / Fridayish (dependent on when sky wants to put us on (don't start me on that one)), he seems to be on a pretty cushy number for the next few months before he wanders off with his cheque.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1491 on: January 13, 2021, 09:31:20 AM »
Big Sam's a very busy man behind the scenes. Little Sam coaches day to day, Luke Dowling signs players from the 'worldwide search' on FIFA 2021 while Big Sam shuffles the deck chairs.
It doesn't matter how many resources you have.
If you don't know how to use them, they will never be enough.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1492 on: January 13, 2021, 10:00:22 AM »
but given our predicament then I cannot think of any other manager who would do better with the resources and money available. If we dont procure any more players then we will probably get tonked in most games, as we do not deserve to be in this league.

Bilic was doing better for one.

I'd also suggest any manager who doesn't rely on a poor set of defenders defending for 80 minutes in a game would do a better job.  We are playing the worst possible tactics for this squad - and that's solely at the hands of the manager telling them to play that way.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1493 on: January 13, 2021, 10:04:04 AM »
Then we can look ourselves in the mirror and we've done everything.....

There's the problem - the board don't want to have "done everything", they want to have "done cheaply".

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1494 on: January 13, 2021, 10:07:39 AM »
What else is there to do?
Get all bitter and twisted.
We can't vote with our feet, we can't use our voice, we can attack on social media but doesn't have the same effect imo.
We have to face facts and accept that we are the worst team in the league and could be heading for the label of the worst team in Premier League history.
It will take time and a lot of changes, but we will be back (said in an Austrian accent)

We are not as bad as our recent results have made us look though.

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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1495 on: January 13, 2021, 10:14:14 AM »
I think it probably fair to say I am less than happy about Allardyce's appointment so there is no question of giving him a free pass to the end of the season. The transition from Bilic to Allardyce has gone about as well as I expected.

Pinning our hopes on signing his type of player in January was always a long shot. Even setting aside the lack of resources to do it, the nature of the market in January means selling clubs for the most part won't release players until they have  got to the end of the month with a generally healthy squad. Doubly so this year with the threat of Covid. If for instance I was Leicester City considering loaning Choudrey there is no way I would do so before the team had played ay least 3 of the 5 fixtures they have still to play this month.

Much is made of the January business he did at Palace but the reality is 3 of the 4 didn't arrive until the last week of January even Sakho who by that stage Liverpool could not rush out the door quick enough arrived at the last minute.

If that pattern repeats we will be dead before the window closes and the new players have any meaningful impact rendering a pointless appointment even more pointless.

If we wanted to go down this path we should have done it in the summer as brutal as that sounds.  We have managed to conjure up the worse of all possible worlds.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1496 on: January 13, 2021, 10:27:51 AM »
Bilic was doing better for one.

I'd also suggest any manager who doesn't rely on a poor set of defenders defending for 80 minutes in a game would do a better job.  We are playing the worst possible tactics for this squad - and that's solely at the hands of the manager telling them to play that way.

The defenders were there when Sam was recruited. You know what you are getting with him so perhaps the fault lies with recruitment for not getting another 'Bilic type' manager. We cannot play 'we are going to score one more than you' tactics in this division.

You say he shouldn't rely on a poor set of defenders, but he can hardly rely on our lightweight midfield and none existent attack either can he?

We sold our only decent defender to a Saudi club, probably the only one who could play the 'Sam' way. 
« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 10:34:46 AM by skyclad99 »
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1497 on: January 13, 2021, 10:35:21 AM »
We 100% need to do business very quickly and I agree that if we don't get things done by the end of the window we could very well be well cut off. After today we could be 7-9 points behind, the weekend could increase that to 10-12. It's already a big big ask so the board need to just get deals done. Back him or bust.

As Standaman says, this would've been far better being done in summer but we faffed then pulled the trigger in a terrible moment for moral. We've then faffed in the window. All our board do is faff.

Any blame on transfers really can't lie at Allardyce with the structure of our club and I don't know what him being a CB at Bolton many many years ago has to do with transfers. The way we are structured things lie with Dowling and "Ken."

You'd think a club would get a manager in place and say "we have xyz deals this far down the line and they will be coming in at the start of January to help the fight against relegation" but it looks like that isn't the way.

Allardyce has my backing but I'm beginning to really question Dowling and co.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1498 on: January 13, 2021, 10:55:45 AM »
Bilic was doing better for one.

I'd also suggest any manager who doesn't rely on a poor set of defenders defending for 80 minutes in a game would do a better job.  We are playing the worst possible tactics for this squad - and that's solely at the hands of the manager telling them to play that way.

Christ the sooner Allardyce picks up another 6 points the better so this appalling shout stops. 7 points from 13 games is totally unacceptable even if the manager has got the greatest personality in the world.
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Re: Sam Allardyce
« Reply #1499 on: January 13, 2021, 11:12:40 AM »
Christ the sooner Allardyce picks up another 6 points the better so this appalling shout stops. 7 points from 13 games is totally unacceptable even if the manager has got the greatest personality in the world.

And how is he going to pick up another 6pts currently?  We couldn't even beat Blackpool in 2 hours of football. We have been battered by Villa, Leeds and Arsenal.  I can't even see where we'll pick up a draw.

The likes of Ivanovic, Livermore, Sawyers, Grant should've been bombed out of starting team within a couple of weeks.  Why are they still being selected?  Why hasn't he dipped into the squad to blood other players like Kipre, Harper, Edwards etc.  OK Grosicki is brought in which is a positive move.

We could've gone leftfield and brought in low cost players already.  SA is not reacting quick enough to atrocious performances. 

« Last Edit: January 13, 2021, 11:14:14 AM by Hull Baggie »