[Adder]

Even a topic about him 

http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=24158.0

Yep cheers, spotted it after I posted 

[Baggies]

Following today's cup game (and with the lack of youths named), we really do now need to see some loan moves in the next few days.

Rakeem Harper is the obvious one, but also young Soule and Clayton-Phillips.

I would say Tulloch as well, but with his contract situation that might be difficult.

[Adder]

Following today's cup game (and with the lack of youths named), we really do now need to see some loan moves in the next few days.

Rakeem Harper is the obvious one, but also young Soule and Clayton-Phillips.

I would say Tulloch as well, but with his contract situation that might be difficult.

As we are still in the cup I don't see Harper going anywhere (unless we make an unlikely midfield signing). He's been injured, so the fact he was on the bench today may not accurately reflect his place in the pecking order.

[Baggies]

He hasn't featured this season and we have 1, maybe 2 cuo games left this season. Far better to give Barry/Brunt those games with Harper going out in loan, rather than letting him waste a year, because if we go up he won't feature next season *unless he gets some momentum elsewhere, ala O'Shea).

[Adder]

He hasn't featured this season and we have 1, maybe 2 cuo games left this season. Far better to give Barry/Brunt those games with Harper going out in loan, rather than letting him waste a year, because if we go up he won't feature next season *unless he gets some momentum elsewhere, ala O'Shea).

I agree it would do him good but we have 7 league games in Feb plus now 1 cup game (2 if we get a replay). With that number of games I can't see us sending him out on loan and we may regret it if we did.

[Baggies]

Thing is Adder, we played more games than that in the run up to and then over the festive period, but we still only used him in the Charlton cup game. He is behind Barry and Brunt and neither of them have been given much game time. He is highly unlikely to feature at this point.

Keeping him here just to be safe would be another failure to learn from last seasons lessons, where we held on to Sam Field and Jonathan Leko all season and Oli Burke for half a season despite  it being plainly obvious by mid August that neither player were part of Moore's plans.

[koren]

Jamie Soule should go out on loan after he signed the new deal, but he is still here to play for U23.
We always say the club can't keep the talent, but does the club have a plan for those who stay with us?

[Baggies]

Spot on Koren. For all my frustration with players leaving for nothing, what are we doing to convince them to stay?

[Adder]

Thing is Adder, we played more games than that in the run up to and then over the festive period, but we still only used him in the Charlton cup game. He is behind Barry and Brunt and neither of them have been given much game time. He is highly unlikely to feature at this point.

Keeping him here just to be safe would be another failure to learn from last seasons lessons, where we held on to Sam Field and Jonathan Leko all season and Oli Burke for half a season despite  it being plainly obvious by mid August that neither player were part of Moore's plans.

You could say that Sawyers and Livermore are more knackered now a month further on into the season...also Barry and especially Brunt  could very easily twang something and miss another couple of weeks or so. We'll find out this week but I don't think he'll be sent anywhere.

[Baggies]

With a day and a half left of the transfer window, we currently have the following sat gathering dust in under 23 football:

Josh Griffiths (18), who signed a 4 year contract in September, is one of 8 or 9 goalkeepers contracted to the Club over the age of 16. With so many of our young keepers currently not getting game time, surely it would be useful to loan Griffiths out to a Conference or league 2 club for the second half of the season, given he is a 6 foot 6 England youth international.

Rakeem Harper (19) turns 20 in March, has made only 2 or 3 appearances all season. He is currently behind 6 players in the central midfield ranks, and with the signings of 2 wingers/wide forwards today, you have to imagine his chances of making any meaningful contribution between now and the end of the season are highly unlikely. if we fail to get promotion next season, Harper could be a key player who we rely on (with Brunt and Barry set to leave), so do we really want to be relying on him having had near enough no competitive football for a whole year? There will be a number of clubs at the bottom of the championship who would love to take Harper, including Charlton.

Jamie Soule (19) who has scored on a fairly regular basis for the under 23 side is possibly on the small side for a lone striker, something that might hold him back. Regardless of that, he signed a 2 or 3 year pro deal in the summer, and with us having 4 strikers at the club, surely the time has come for him to go out on loan now? If he shows some form in league 1 or 2, maybe then he will be a consideration for next season?

Nick Clayton-Phillips (18) had a great pre season and also signed pro terms this summer. He is currently behind Tulloch and Willock in the under 23 side and nowhere near the first team. Is there any reason why at 18 he can’t go out on loan to league 2?

Finn Azaz (19] has been a steady performer in central midfield for a few years for the under 23s. Despite this, he hasn’t got near the first team picture, even in pre season. At 19, how long has he got left to prove himself? He hasn’t played a single minute of professional football in his career yet we keep him here, waiting for a miracle

Rayhaan Tulloch (19) His contract situation means it is difficult to loan him out this January (unless we tie him down to a deal in the next 24 hours), but I still include him on the list as a bit of a lesson. Last January would have been an ideal time to loan out an 18 year old a Tulloch. Had he gone to league 2 and done well, we could have offered him a longer contract and he might have been a regular sub this summer, instead, he wasted a season in the under 23’s with reports being he will join Rangers in the summer. If he goes on to do well in Scotland, what a waste the last few years will have been.

Dara O’Shea and Kyle Edwards started for us last night, but would not be near the first team picture had it not been for their loan moves in recent seasons to Exeter City. Jonathan Leko found a new lease of life with his loan move to Charlton in the first half of the year, while Marcus Forss (who was behind Soule, Morton, Asomugha & Tulloch in his Albion age group) has now lept ahead of all of them being one of the top scorers in league 1 while on loan from Brentford to Wimbledon.

Top clubs send their young players out on loan to lower league teams to help them develop (Harvey Barnes, Grady Diangana, Mason Mount, Fiyako Tomori, Ben Wilmot and now Rhian Brewster, Connor Gallagher and Marc Guehi).

If I could have one more ask of this window, it would be that the club recognise the need to send at least 2 or 3 of these kids out on loan this window. Let’s start thinking about how we are going to help them go from academy kids to first team players.

[iwastherein68]

With a day and a half left of the transfer window, we currently have the following sat gathering dust in under 23 football:

Josh Griffiths (18), who signed a 4 year contract in September, is one of 8 or 9 goalkeepers contracted to the Club over the age of 16. With so many of our young keepers currently not getting game time, surely it would be useful to loan Griffiths out to a Conference or league 2 club for the second half of the season, given he is a 6 foot 6 England youth international.

Rakeem Harper (19) turns 20 in March, has made only 2 or 3 appearances all season. He is currently behind 6 players in the central midfield ranks, and with the signings of 2 wingers/wide forwards today, you have to imagine his chances of making any meaningful contribution between now and the end of the season are highly unlikely. if we fail to get promotion next season, Harper could be a key player who we rely on (with Brunt and Barry set to leave), so do we really want to be relying on him having had near enough no competitive football for a whole year? There will be a number of clubs at the bottom of the championship who would love to take Harper, including Charlton.

Jamie Soule (19) who has scored on a fairly regular basis for the under 23 side is possibly on the small side for a lone striker, something that might hold him back. Regardless of that, he signed a 2 or 3 year pro deal in the summer, and with us having 4 strikers at the club, surely the time has come for him to go out on loan now? If he shows some form in league 1 or 2, maybe then he will be a consideration for next season?

Nick Clayton-Phillips (18) had a great pre season and also signed pro terms this summer. He is currently behind Tulloch and Willock in the under 23 side and nowhere near the first team. Is there any reason why at 18 he can’t go out on loan to league 2?

Finn Azaz (19] has been a steady performer in central midfield for a few years for the under 23s. Despite this, he hasn’t got near the first team picture, even in pre season. At 19, how long has he got left to prove himself? He hasn’t played a single minute of professional football in his career yet we keep him here, waiting for a miracle

Rayhaan Tulloch (19) His contract situation means it is difficult to loan him out this January (unless we tie him down to a deal in the next 24 hours), but I still include him on the list as a bit of a lesson. Last January would have been an ideal time to loan out an 18 year old a Tulloch. Had he gone to league 2 and done well, we could have offered him a longer contract and he might have been a regular sub this summer, instead, he wasted a season in the under 23’s with reports being he will join Rangers in the summer. If he goes on to do well in Scotland, what a waste the last few years will have been.

Dara O’Shea and Kyle Edwards started for us last night, but would not be near the first team picture had it not been for their loan moves in recent seasons to Exeter City. Jonathan Leko found a new lease of life with his loan move to Charlton in the first half of the year, while Marcus Forss (who was behind Soule, Morton, Asomugha & Tulloch in his Albion age group) has now lept ahead of all of them being one of the top scorers in league 1 while on loan from Brentford to Wimbledon.

Top clubs send their young players out on loan to lower league teams to help them develop (Harvey Barnes, Grady Diangana, Mason Mount, Fiyako Tomori, Ben Wilmot and now Rhian Brewster, Connor Gallagher and Marc Guehi).

If I could have one more ask of this window, it would be that the club recognise the need to send at least 2 or 3 of these kids out on loan this window. Let’s start thinking about how we are going to help them go from academy kids to first team players.

Agree entirely great post, personally I am gutted that we will lose Tulloch for practically nowt.

[koren]

Thanks for the summary by Baggies.
Our Academy have produced some promising youngsters but unfortunately it seems that the club don't care about their development.

[johnny Cash]

The FA are talking about increasing the quota of British players per squad. More reason for the big clubs to poach from academies like ours.

[cads_ap_albion]

The success of our academy could be seen today:

Daniels, Brown, Sawyers, O'Shea, Harper.
Plus on the bench, Tulloch and Edwards.

That is not a bad return...

[Baggies]

And yet it seems we have little faith in them anf aren't creating a happy environment. What a mess we are making of it having soent millions iver the kast 16 or so years in developing it.

[TheBrom]

And yet it seems we have little faith in them anf aren't creating a happy environment. What a mess we are making of it having soent millions iver the kast 16 or so years in developing it.

Despite starting Sawyers and O'Shea, with Harper coming off the bench...

[Baggies]

Despite starting Sawyers and O'Shea, with Harper coming off the bench...

A ton of kids left to play under 23 football with no plan on hiw we develop them in to first team footballers, a failure to discuss contract extensions until it is too late, 4 of our most exciting youngsters in 8 months making efforts to move elsehwere and the saga with the academy last summer that saw half of our key coaches move on.

I stand by what I have said for a while, we spot and develop some exciting prospects but after that we fail both the players and ourselves.

[SirTonyM]

And yet it seems we have little faith in them anf aren't creating a happy environment. What a mess we are making of it having soent millions iver the kast 16 or so years in developing it.

Bilic has played Ferguson, Edwards, Harper, Tulloch and O’Shea this season. Ferguson and Barry both left or have wanted to leave for “bigger clubs” (We would have made 11 mill but for Ferguson’s injury). Think we made 15 Mill on Berahino.
Brown and Daniels are playing for Luton....
Of Sinclair, Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Berahino etc. Which have hit the heights / made it to have amazing careers?

[Baggies]

Bilic has played Ferguson, Edwards, Harper, Tulloch and O’Shea this season. Ferguson and Barry both left or have wanted to leave for “bigger clubs” (We would have made 11 mill but for Ferguson’s injury). Think we made 15 Mill on Berahino.
Brown and Daniels are playing for Luton....
Of Sinclair, Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Berahino etc. Which have hit the heights / made it to have amazing careers?

I've not said we have produced any world class players yet.

We are still a relatively young academy, and yet despite that, we have between 15-20 graduates playing prem/championship football or in leagues in Europe. I think  between the ages of 8-16 we do very well and the  issue comes with how we handle them post 16.

[Mister AT]

Bilic has played Ferguson, Edwards, Harper, Tulloch and O’Shea this season. Ferguson and Barry both left or have wanted to leave for “bigger clubs” (We would have made 11 mill but for Ferguson’s injury). Think we made 15 Mill on Berahino.
Brown and Daniels are playing for Luton....
Of Sinclair, Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Berahino etc. Which have hit the heights / made it to have amazing careers?

Depends what you define as amazing.

Sinclair is still classed as a premier league striker as he’s still at Watford, albeit out on loan.
Dhanda has 2 goals in 8 games this season in the championship.
Izzy Brown currently playing in the championship.
Berahino has scored goals in the premier league and England under 21 set up, fair enough he’s lost his way but still.

You could say they are all success stories of our academy. The aim of the academy is to produce footballers who are good enough to play league football, of course you want to produce ‘world class’ players, but you only have to look through the football league to see it’s littered with players who have come out of our academy.

Nathan Ferguson almost signing for a premier league team for 11million from half a seasons worth of football out of his natural position.

So overall yes it has been successful, and the money from Saido, Rogers, Barry (when we get it) will continue to help keep the academy in profit.

[SirTonyM]

I've not said we have produced any world class players yet.

We are still a relatively young academy, and yet despite that, we have between 15-20 graduates playing prem/championship football or in leagues in Europe. I think  between the ages of 8-16 we do very well and the  issue comes with how we handle them post 16.

You’d said it was a mess and we had little faith in them. I was pointing out Bilic was playing young players and maybe we don’t have faith as they aren’t better than our first team players. I was making the point that so far the academy has produced players who are playing at a lower level than where we currently are.

[Baggies]

You’d said it was a mess and we had little faith in them. I was pointing out Bilic was playing young players and maybe we don’t have faith as they aren’t better than our first team players. I was making the point that so far the academy has produced players who are playing at a lower level than where we currently are.

We are talking about different things SirTonyM.

I’m not talking about Bilic giving kids chances in the first team (he is probably the most successful manager in my lifetime at integrating youth players).

I’m talking about everything that sits around our academy. I’ve detailed in length my own issues on this thread in a number of posts.

[Wigmore]

Two more players who can be added to the list of 'escapees'...
Tyler Roberts (Leeds) who netted the club £2,000,000 + add on payments.
Kemar Roofe (Anderlecht) who signed for Oxford for an (small) undisclosed fee. The later move to Leeds netted WBA a six figure sell-on windfall.
Yes, I know they could/should have gone for more, but £3M is not insignificant when weighing up academy finances

[SmethDan]

Can't believe we never gave Donervon Daniels a run out up front. Sublime finish for our first yesterday. Shakes head in disbelief at another one having slipped through the net. A tale of woe and wasted potential.

[johnny Cash]

Two more players who can be added to the list of 'escapees'...
Tyler Roberts (Leeds) who netted the club £2,000,000 + add on payments.
Kemar Roofe (Anderlecht) who signed for Oxford for an (small) undisclosed fee. The later move to Leeds netted WBA a six figure sell-on windfall.
Yes, I know they could/should have gone for more, but £3M is not insignificant when weighing up academy finances

when they started the academy they said it would take 10 years to see the results. They claimed Berahino as one of the first successes of having the full benefit but there were a few before him who made us some money.

The academy output has been pretty decent  and even with a lot of disappoint around players not sticking around here, it will be in substantial profit