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West Bromwich Albion FC Forums => West Bromwich Albion FC => Topic started by: Baggies on July 31, 2012, 09:13:14 PM
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The topic for all Under 21 and Academy News
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With our record last season, I think we have a good chance of making the Elite group stage. Hopefully this will also see reserve football taken more seriously.
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With our record last season, I think we have a good chance of making the Elite group stage. Hopefully this will also see reserve football taken more seriously.
Will all the games be held behind closed doors? would be a shame seeing that this is a new league being introduced under the PL banner.
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I think it will be the same as last season. Some will be behind closed doors while others are week nights.
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Though it would be a good idea to have a thread on this so we can monitor the results of ours youngsters and see how we are shaping up under this new format.
We are playing our first fixture today against Everton.
Our team is:
Albion U21 team v Everton U21 (ko 2pm): L Daniels, Hurst, O’Neil, Thorne (capt), D Daniels, Gayle, Allan, Mantom, Wood, Berahino, Sawyers.
Interest we haven't included any over age outfield players in the team. You are allowed 3 over 21 years olds in the team and an over age keeper as well.
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3-1; 2 from Berahino and 1 from Wood
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Oops must have missed this thread.
Great start for the under 21s winning 3-1. Wood, Berahino x2
I would imagine it will get more difficult when some of our better players go out on loan.
We've left Merseyside in our wake this weekend.
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Great to hear that the under 21s have started with a win.
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Im interested to see the subs bench. We should have quite a good squad of under 21's now, with a fair few coming out of the academy.
Roofe, Brown, Nabi, Garmston and one of the young keepers will all be close, while Alex Jones shouldn't be too far away.
The club are targeting the under 21 league this year so I expect a strong line up quite often. interesting to see how some of our traditional reserves get on though now. Players like Thomas and El Ghannasy as well as Rosenberg will need some game time soon.
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Garmston is rapid. He used to do athletics, and in the Junior Championships, I think he came second to Gemili, who competed at this years Olympics!
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Not much of a match report, but gives the full squad.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21-3-everton-u21-1-321679.aspx
Albion U21 3 Everton U21 1
17:30 19th August 2012
Berahino fires double and Wood nets in season opener
SAIDO Berahino recovered from missing an early penalty to fire a double in a 3-1 win over Everton in Albion’s Barclays Under-21 Premier League opener.
The England Under-20s hitman’s 17th-minute strike gave the Baggies a 1-0 half-time lead over the Toffees.
Chris Wood doubled the score on the hour-mark before Berahino made it 3-0 on 69.
The visitors grabbed a consolation goal through Shane Duffy in the final minute.
Albion’s development/reserves coach David Oldfield said: “It was a really good performance.
“The boys passed it well and created many opportunities in a strong showing.
“We’re a bit disappointed we didn’t take more of our opportunities and it’s a shame we conceded late on to deny ourselves a clean sheet – but we won’t let that cloud a very good display.”
ALBION: L Daniels, Hurst, O’Neil, Thorne (capt), D Daniels (Garmston 75), Gayle, Allan (Nabi 64), Mantom, Wood, Berahino, Sawyers (Brown 77). Subs not used: Lewis (gk), O’Sullivan.
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This was our U-21 team that defeated Everton 3-1 the other night:
ALBION: L Daniels, Hurst, O’Neil, Thorne (capt), D Daniels (Garmston 75), Gayle, Allan (Nabi 64), Mantom, Wood, Berahino, Sawyers (Brown 77). Subs not used: Lewis (gk), O’Sullivan.
Seriously, this team wouldn't be out of place in the Championship. Maybe they wouldn't push for promotion, but they wouldn't get relegated either.
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This was our U-21 team that defeated Everton 3-1 the other night:
ALBION: L Daniels, Hurst, O’Neil, Thorne (capt), D Daniels (Garmston 75), Gayle, Allan (Nabi 64), Mantom, Wood, Berahino, Sawyers (Brown 77). Subs not used: Lewis (gk), O’Sullivan.
Seriously, this team wouldn't be out of place in the Championship. Maybe they wouldn't push for promotion, but they wouldn't get relegated either.
Bit optimistic, that team with no experience would finish rock bottom of the championship. Extremely tough division.
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Have to agree with Jacko on this one. :-[ Most of that team wouldn't go on loan to Championship sides.
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Since when have we had an u21s? Though we only had up to 18s
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Since when have we had an u21s? Though we only had up to 18s
Wood is 20, Allan is 20, Thorne is 19, Hurst is 20, Mantom is 20, O'Neil is 19, Luke Daniels is 24, Gayle is 19, Berahino is 19, Sawyers is 20, Brown is 20.
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Since when have we had an u21s? Though we only had up to 18s
It's instead of the reserve league
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Have to agree with Jacko on this one. :-[ Most of that team wouldn't go on loan to Championship sides.
I think over half the side could easily find a slot in a championship side Allan, Luke Daniels, Wood, Thorne, Berahino and Hurst. Obviously as a team it would be hammered in he Championship but indivdually I would of thought most will be able to hack it at least at Division One level.
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I think over half the side could easily find a slot in a championship side Allan, Luke Daniels, Wood, Thorne, Berahino and Hurst. Obviously as a team it would be hammered in he Championship but indivdually I would of thought most will be able to hack it at least at Division One level.
I'd agree with those six.
Edit: Except I'm not so certain "easily" applies to those without prior Championship experience -- mind you I'm only going on reports of their performances. It's not like I've been able to see them practically at all.
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Team for tonights game at Reading:
Albion U21 team v Reading: (ko 7pm): Lewis, Hurst, Garmston, Thorne, D Daniels, O'Neil, Allan, Mantom, Wood, Berahino, Sawyers.
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Is there anyway of knowing the score? Or will we have to wait to see on the Official Site?
Some guy on FB claims we're 5-0 down at HT. I'd be amazed if that was true though.
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WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
Albion 5-0 down at half-time at Reading in Barclays U21 Premier League
Bloody Hell....... Just look at that team?! How on Earth are they being thrashed? Very surprised at this...
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Would of expected a comfortable victory with that team.
Are Reading playing all the allowed (4) senior players?
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Final Score - Reading 6 Albion 1
Berahino penalty for our goal.
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Final Score - Reading 6 Albion 1
Berahino penalty for our goal.
Having read the Reading forum it would seem their overage players made the difference - so perhaps not as disheartening.
http://hobnob.royals.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=114836
"It was literally men against boys at times. It was noticeable how much better our 4 over age players were than most of the kids on the pitch."
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http://www.wba.co.uk//news/article/albion-u21-2-blackburn-u21-2-350658.aspx
Sounds like Sawyers had a really good game.
Sawyers and Roofe got the goals.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKQ5hdkXBBQ&feature=youtu.be
The goals from the game. Looks a bit scrappy to me.
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Anybody going to the Hawthorns tomorrow?
WBA under 21's vs West Ham under 21's. 2 pm kick off.
First under 21 game at the Hawthorns this season.
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Todays team:
Under-21s team to face West Ham: L Daniels; Hurst, D Daniels, Tamas, Gayle; Thorne (c), Mantom, Sawyers; El Ghanassy, Rosenberg, Berahino.
Subs: Lewis (gk); Roofe, Nabi, O’Neil, Allan.
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Got some experience in the team today - so I expect a decent result. El Ganzo, Tamas and Rosenberg need match fitness.
Some of these youngsters could do with some loan deals soon.
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Can someone explain to me why Tamas and Rosenberg are included in an u21s match?
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Can someone explain to me why Tamas and Rosenberg are included in an u21s match?
For match fitness.
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For match fitness.
I know that mate, I mean how can they be included when they're both over 21?
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For match fitness.
you are allowed 4 over age players in the squad (including a goalkeeper) because there are no reserve games anymore.
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you are allowed 4 over age players in the squad (including a goalkeeper) because there are no reserve games anymore.
Cheers mate.
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I know that mate, I mean how can they be included when they're both over 21?
Sorry I thought most knew that now.
Surprised Dawson isn't going to feature.
1-1 at HT. El Ganzo with our goal.
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Finished 1 all. Sounds like we should of won and El Ganzo played well.
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Did anyone go to the game? Care to give a report on the game?
1 win, 2 draws and a loss so far in the league. It's an okay start.
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Did anyone go to the game? Care to give a report on the game?
1 win, 2 draws and a loss so far in the league. It's an okay start.
Full match report:
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21-1-west-ham-u21-1-370242.aspx
El Ghanassy notches first goal at The Hawthorns
YASSINE El Ghanassy netted his first goal at The Hawthorns as Albion drew 1-1 with West Ham in the Barclays Under-21 Premier League this afternoon.
The 22-year-old winger put the Baggies ahead inside five minutes but West Ham were level through Robert Hall only three minutes later.
Albion were the better side throughout the game but were left ruing a host of missed chances – with West Ham keeper Raphael Spiegel adding to the Baggies’ frustrations with a number of first-class saves.
Under-21s coach David Oldfield rang four changes to the side that drew 2-2 with Blackburn just under two weeks ago.
Kemar Roofe, Kayelden Brown, Liam O’Neil and Adil Nabi made way for Markus Rosenberg, Gabriel Tamas, George Thorne and El Ghanassy.
Albion were ahead after only five minutes when El Ghanassy’s stunning right-foot strike found the bottom left-hand corner of the net following a 50-yard meandering run.
The on-loan winger propelled forward from Luke Daniels’ long throw before drilling the ball past Spiegel in the West Ham goal from 18 yards.
But the Hammers were level inside three minutes when Hall’s powerful left-foot free-kick flew inside the right-hand post from 25 yards.
Romaine Sawyers could and should have put Albion ahead on 27 but hit his tame left-foot effort was comfortably gathered by Spiegel from eight yards.
Luke Daniels made a fine one-handed reflex save to keep the score level two minutes later – diving to his right to stop Hammers skipper Callum Driver’s right-foot shot from six yards.
And Daniels had to make an even better save to keep out Paul McCallum’s goal-bound header five minutes before the break.
Moments later, Markus Rosenberg directed a right-foot effort directly at Spiegel from 18 yards and he could have done better.
The Baggies had the better of the second-half opening exchanges and could have re-taken the lead through Thorne.
The 19-year-old midfielder was unable to steer Sawyers’ through-ball inside the near post.
And Sawyers halted the game on 50 minutes when his powerful goal-bound volley was denied by Irons goalscorer Hall.
The 18-year-old winger, who featured as a substitute in West Ham’s 3-0 triumph over Fulham two weeks ago, received treatment to his nether regions for over three minutes following the block.
Saido Berahino carved out another chance for Sawyers on 56 but he was again stopped by an excellent and instinctive save from Spiegel.
El Ghanassy’s 20-yard free-kick looked set to separate the two teams on 70 minutes but Spiegel again rose to the challenge and tipped over for a corner.
And Tamas made a late run into the area to volley El Ghanassy’s pin-point cross wide of the left-hand post from the resulting corner.
Spiegel made another fantastic save to deny Thorne three minutes later – after Hurst and Rosenberg combined to play in the young Englishman. Thorne’s right-foot strike was parried by the 19-year-old former Grasshopper goalkeeper.
Berahino had Albion’s final chance of the game in the 82nd minute, but again was denied by Spiegel, who capped off a fine performance with another comprehensive save.
ALBION: L Daniels; Hurst, D Daniels, Tamas, Gayle; Thorne (c), Mantom, Sawyers (Allan 68); El Ghanassy (Nabi 82), Rosenberg (Roofe 76), Berahino. Subs not used: Lewis (gk); O’Neil.
WEST HAM: Spiegel; Driver (c), Moncur, Chambers, Fanimo; Spence, Turgott, Lletget, McCallum, Lee (Ruddock 76), Hall. Subs not used: Hunt, Rosique, Wearen, Powell.
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We have lost again.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/norwich-u21-1-albion-u21-0-381182.aspx
Norwich U21 1 Albion U21 0
16:48 21st September 2012
Baggies suffer undeserved defeat
ALBION suffered an undeserved 1-0 defeat at Norwich in the Barclays Under-21 Premier League.
Jacob Murphy’s 28th-minute strike proved enough to hand all three points to the Canaries.
But the hosts had to rely on a string of fine saves from Jed Steer to seal victory, as he denied Saido Berahino on 14 and stopped Kayelden Brown efforts either side of the break.
Development Coach David Oldfield said: “It was a much-improved performance.
“Our application and overall play was much better and their goalkeeper made two or three good saves - but we also missed a number of chances.
“We need to start taking these chances if we are to get the results we deserve because we should have won.”
ALBION: Lewis, O'Neil (O’Sullivan 48), Garmston, Thorne, D Daniels, Gayle, Roofe, Mantom, K Brown (Sawyers 66), Berahino, Allan (A Nabi 79). Subs not used: Palmer (gk), C Jones.
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Good 1-0 win against Arsenal this afternoon with a team that included Wilshire and Frimpong returning from serious injuries.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21-1-arsenal-u21-0-401492.aspx
YASSINE El Ghanassy grabbed his second Barclays Under 21 Premier League goal of the season as Albion secured a 1-0 victory over the Gunners at The Hawthorns.
All the pre-match hype concerned Arsenal and England midfielder Jack Wilshere, who started his first competitive game in 16 months, after recovering from a foot injury.
But the Baggies earned their first win since the opening day of the season with a solid defensive display – sparked by the attacking flair of El Ghanassy.
Development coach David Oldfield made four changes to the side that lost 1-0 at Norwich ten days ago - with Kayelden Brown, Saido Berahino, Scott Allan and Adil Nabi making way for Isaiah Brown, Romaine Sawyers, Mani O’Sullivan and El Ghanassy.
Arsenal started the brighter of the two sides and would have been ahead inside six minutes had Shane Lewis not been on hand to tip over Kyle Ebecilo’s right-foot strike from 20 yards.
Wilshere dissected the Baggies defence on 17 when his throughball found Nigel Neita in space ten yards from goal.
Lewis could only parry Neita’s left-foot effort and Liam O’Neil’s excellent goalline block denied Josh Rees from the rebound.
Sam Mantom’s right-foot shot from 25 yards provided Albion’s first strike at goal in the 22nd-minute - but Emiliano Martinez gathered comfortably in the Arsenal goal.
Ebecilo had another fine opportunity to put Arsenal ahead on 25 but was denied by a last-ditch block from Donervorn Daniels after a clever one-two with Emmanuel Frimpong.
El Ghanassy came close for the Baggies when his 36th-minute free-kick whistled just wide of the right-hand post from 22 yards.
But the Belgium international grabbed his goal four minutes later - slotting home George Thorne’s deadly throughball with his right foot from 12 yards.
The on-loan attacker should have doubled Albion’s lead three minutes later but struck tamely into the arms of Martinez after dispossessing Frimpong on the edge of the area.
Daniels nearly extended the Baggies’ lead three minutes after the restart but his header struck the woodwork and went over from El Ghanassy’s corner.
The second half was somewhat subdued, with a host of substitutions contributing to the stop-start pattern of the game.
Wilshere signed off on a successful return to action when he was replaced by Kris Olsson after 63 minutes – while Frimpong bowed out on 70 with Serge Gnabry taking his place.
Sawyers directed a right-foot effort directly at Martinez on 85 with substitute Aaron Birch providing the opportunity after some positive football in midfield.
Arsenal responded immediately but Thomas Eisfeld sent his strike over the bar and into the Smethwick End from 20 yards.
And the woodwork saved the day for Oldfield’s men with Gnabry’s right-foot rocket striking the upright in the fifth minute of added time.
ALBION (4-2-3-1): Lewis; O’Neill, D Daniels, Gayle, Garmston; Mantom, Thorne; O’Sullivan, El Ghanassy (A Jones 81), I Brown (Birch 77); Sawyers. Subs not used: Palmer (gk); C Jones, S Nabi.
ARSENAL (4-5-1): Martinez; Bellerin, Hajrovic, Miquel, Meade; Rees, Wilshere (Olsson 63), Yennaris, Frimpong (Gnabry 70), Ebecilo; Neita (Eisfeld 75). Subs not used: Charles-Cook, Monteiro.
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Thats a cracking win given that several of our normal second string have gone out on loan.
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Has had a bit of press coverage due to Wilshere making his comeback.
The i paper printed Frimpongs tweet 'Fair play to West Brom they have a decent set of young players, impressive'
Good to hear with 4-5 regulars out on loan now.
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So we all know we have Billy Jones in the squad...
I just noticed tonight on the official site that the U21's played with a team consisting of A Jones and C Jones. http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/u21s-squad-named-for-bolton-trip-415886.aspx
If we started them all together we could have A,B and C Jones on the field together :P Imagine the commentators confusion if we threw a Jonas in there too :|
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Another 1-0 victory tonight against Bolton at the Reebok.
Liam O'Neil ?@LiamONeil31
Good 1-0 result at the Reebok, solid performance from the team and should of scored more!!! #wba
The tweets coming out the club (players) seem very encouraging to congratulations to them.
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/bolton-u21-0-albion-u21-1-416286.aspx
David Oldfield's side collect first away points of the term
ALBION secured a second consecutive 1-0 victory in the Barclays Under-21 Premier League at Bolton this evening – thanks to a solitary Alex Jones strike.
The Baggies followed up last Monday’s 1-0 triumph over Arsenal at The Hawthorns with a solid performance at the Reebok Stadium.
David Oldfield’s young Albion outfit dominated much of the game but left it until the 70th minute to seal their first points on the road this season.
Development Coach David Oldfield said: “It was a good team performance and I’m pleased by the way my side played.
“We had plenty of possession but we need to be more clinical in front of goal.
“We didn’t get too carried away when things weren’t going our way earlier in the season but of course it is important we pick up wins and to follow up last week’s win over Arsenal is pleasing.”
ALBION: Lewis; O’Neil, D Daniels, Gayle, Atkinson; Thorne, Mantom; I Brown, A Nabi, O’Sullivan; A Jones. Subs not used: Palmer (gk); Pace, Smart, C Jones, Ambalu
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Imagine the commentators confusion if we threw a Jonas in there too :|
Nah, they already think he's "Martin" Olsson.
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So we all know we have Billy Jones in the squad...
I just noticed tonight on the official site that the U21's played with a team consisting of A Jones and C Jones. http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/u21s-squad-named-for-bolton-trip-415886.aspx
If we started them all together we could have A,B and C Jones on the field together :P Imagine the commentators confusion if we threw a Jonas in there too :|
God help Garth Crooks if that were to happen that's all I can say!
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Gutted, when i read our subs for tonights game at first glance thought it said Ampadu! Sadly was Ambalu!
I thought we had brought Kwame out of retirement or maybe it was his son carrying on the family name! Some fans wont have a clue who i am on about, others will recall the wing wonder! If you were in the Halfords his name was pronounced Kerwaarmee, if you were in the Smethwick it was pronounced Kwayme! I also remember a fella in the Smethwick who just referred to him as w**kadoo every game without fail!
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This young goalkeeper (Lewis) seems to be doing well. Heard he has made a string off excellent stops in the last two games, I also saw him in pre season against Worcester and thought he was very assured for a young man playing in his position. Hopefully one for the future.
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interestingly if the punctuation is to be believed the set up is the same (4-2-3-1) as the first team,absolutely excellent in my eyes as imo it shows SC has been putting his stamp and beliefs on the whole club and we dont as has happened in the past have every team doing its own thing,making it easier for somebody to come in and do the job with minimum alteration.
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interestingly if the punctuation is to be believed the set up is the same (4-2-3-1) as the first team,absolutely excellent in my eyes as imo it shows SC has been putting his stamp and beliefs on the whole club and we dont as has happened in the past have every team doing its own thing,making it easier for somebody to come in and do the job with minimum alteration.
I was reading one of the matchdays programmes last season and Michael Appleton said something similar. He said there was no direction until Tony Mowbray came and asked them to play a specific way. I'm sure Appleton was the academy coach at that time. He wanted the emphasis on pass and move, quick flowing football. The same went for Di Matteo but by that time Appleton has been promoted to first team coach. He then said when Hodgson had assessed the youngsters he wanted them to develop there organisation skills so the objective came from pass and move football to retaining shape, similar to our first team. It appears that we're also looking to follow the footsteps of what Steve Clarke wants to do which is pleasing. Also enables players from the academy which join the first team to know exactly what to expect when they step up.
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Hopefully help youngsters develop getting more games and also for the national team too.
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http://www.wba.co.uk//news/article/blackburn-u21s-2-albion-u21s-0-440466.aspx?
Downing left ruing Baggies' lack of creativity
TWO second-half goals put paid to the visitors’ hopes of securing a third successive win in the Barclays Under-21 Premier League at Leigh Sports Village.
After a tight first-half, Blackburn hit Albion on the counter-attack in the 50th minute and Osayamen Osawe broke the deadlock after being released by Hugo Fernandez.
A second goal from Curtis Haley in the final minute ended the Baggies’ hopes of nicking a point.
Joint-assistant head coach Keith Downing was left ruing Albion’s lack of creativity.
“It was a tight game with few chances at both ends,” he said.
“In the first half, we looked pretty solid defensively.
“Blackburn were very good at pressing the ball and there was little room in midfield. We couldn’t find the quality to unlock them.
“We actually started the second half quite brightly but got caught out with a counter-attack goal.
“The game then became very open. It was end to end and no-one really had control.
“Then, towards the end, when we a little bit more offensive in trying to grab an equaliser, we left ourselves a bit more exposed and they got a second, which was a little bit harsh on us.
“On reflection, I don’t think we did enough with the ball in the final third to win it. We didn’t really have a threat.”
Liam O’Neil was taken off as a precaution early in the second half after suffering a bang to the head towards the end of the first 45.
ALBION (from): Lewis; O’Neil (Atkinson), D Daniels, Gayle, Garmston; I Brown (Birch), Mantom, Thorne, O’Sullivan (A Jones); Sawyers, A Nabi. Subs not used: Pace, Palmer.
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Interesting that you mention the formation, I went to watch my friends younger brother play for the under 14s on sunday against Manchester United at the training ground
They set up with the one lad up top and 2 supporting players with him.
Kind of like how the albion first teamers set up.
Very good footballing side, won 4-2.
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No El G ? Thought he would have got some game time - any reason he didn't play ?
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21-3-reading-u21-3-455041.aspx
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/everton-u21-2-albion-u21-1-469567.aspx
Drawed 3-3 Against Reading (Nabi, Sawyers and Roofe) followed by a 2-1 loss to Everton (El Ghanassy).
We are 6th in National group 1 with not that many games left before the league splits. If we want to get into one of the better leagues for the second half of the season, we could do with getting a few wins under our belt and soon.
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We all want the Academy lads to do well, but I think this new league system has really highlighted how far they still have to go to match the real heavyweights with prestigious, long-established youth systems (Arsenal, Liverpool, West Ham, etc). When the leagues split around Christmas, I wonder if our boys might actually be better off confidence-wise if they go into the "middling" group and are one of the better teams among that set, than scraping their way into the "elite" group and potentially ending up as whipping boys.
Given a few more seasons hopefully we'll see our U-21s really competing with the Arsenals and West Hams, but for the time being I think it's best to have some patience with them and not pile too much expectation on their shoulders.
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What I find strange is that at under 16 level, we always seem to do very well and produce a number of players who make it for England school level, and yet once we get to under 21 level all of these players have faded while average youth set ups beat us. Is there a problem emerging in our coaching from 16-21?
I think it is too soon to say at the moment, but if we haven't produced a premier league player i the next couple of years from the numerous exciting schoolboy sides we have then we might need to have a look.
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What I find strange is that at under 16 level, we always seem to do very well and produce a number of players who make it for England school level, and yet once we get to under 21 level all of these players have faded while average youth set ups beat us. Is there a problem emerging in our coaching from 16-21?
I think it is too soon to say at the moment, but if we haven't produced a premier league player i the next couple of years from the numerous exciting schoolboy sides we have then we might need to have a look.
A very good point Baggies. Im not sure why that is either but it does appear to be a bit of a trend. We can only hope that one of the current crop breakthrough to the first eleven. Maybe thats a part of the problem in itself that the youth players dont have a role model to look up to so they can say "look he's done it why cant I"
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Good point Ruby,i'm not taking into account the psychological effect of having never had a player break through in the premier league era and stay there, and in the development coaches defence, a number of our players have shown signs they can cope in the championship at least, but I would like top see players start to break through at the top level soon.
Villa, Everton, West Ham, Crystal Palace and Southampton all manage it, we really need to as well.
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Good point Ruby,i'm not taking into account the psychological effect of having never had a player break through in the premier league era and stay there, and in the development coaches defence, a number of our players have shown signs they can cope in the championship at least, but I would like top see players start to break through at the top level soon.
Villa, Everton, West Ham, Crystal Palace and Southampton all manage it, we really need to as well.
yes I dont know if that would be the case but we have to hope so. Taking your example of Everton. Since Rooney broke into the first team they seem to have at regular intervals been able to bring one through. Im thinking Rodwell Barkley Coleman. I do think it takes a brave coach as well to put trust in youngsters because at the end of the day its his job that is probably on the line. But it would be so nice to get Berahino for example back off loan and SC to take a punt and get him involved in the first team.
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Beat Norwich's under 21s 4-0 today. Reid getting a run out too.
Nabi got a brace with Sawyers and Roofe getting the others.
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Great win for the u21s today, really pleased to see Reid get a run out.
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Great win for the u21s today, really pleased to see Reid get a run out.
yes agreed he is obviously close to full fitness now. That is going to present SC with yet another selection headache because Billy was really excellent yesterday. Not a foregone conclusion that Reidy will walk back in now?
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Its a good win. Glad to see Nabi scoring a few now as I was starting to think he had failed to develop into the player who we thought he would 2 or 3 years ago. Hopefully now we will have a strong finish to this first half of the season.
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2 away games on the trot have seen us lose 1-0 to West Ham and then beat Arsenal 2-1 with goals from Roofe and O'Neil.
We are now in third place going into the final game of the National Group Stage and if we can beat bottom placed Bolton at home and if results go our way we should go straight into the Elite Group, which gives you a more straightforward path to winning the over all title.
Tables:
http://www.myfootballfacts.com/U-21_Premier_League_2012-13.html
Away from the under 21 league, West Brom travel to Stourbridge on Tuesday defending the Birmingham Senior Cup we won last season. Pat Frost put a call out on twitter asking fans to get down to Stourbridge to support the team in the match, so if you are at a loose end on Tuesday, I suppose it could be a good game.
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For those who want more information, see below link on the tournament set up. It is better for us to finish third and go into the Elite Groups as we will be facing better opposition and have a better chance of getting to the final.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/the-worlds-toughest-playground-new-under21-premier-league-kicks-off-8073635.html
U21 Premier League: How it works
The teams
There are 22 teams involved in the Under-21 Premier League, the 17 Premier League and five Championship clubs who applied for Category One academy status. Watford did apply but have withdrawn. The teams have been randomly drawn into three groups, in which they will play each other home and away.
National Group 1
Arsenal
Blackburn Rovers
Bolton Wanderers
Everton
Norwich City
Reading
West Bromwich Albion
West Ham United
National Group 2
Aston Villa
Manchester United
Newcastle United
Southampton
Stoke City
Sunderland
Tottenham Hotspur
National Group 3
Chelsea
Crystal Palace
Fulham
Liverpool
Manchester City
Middlesbrough
Wolverhampton Wanderers
Elite Group Stage
The top three teams from National Group 1, the top two teams from Groups 2 and 3 and the best third-placed team from Groups 2 and 3 will go into the eight-team Elite Group Stage, in which every team plays each other home and away.
Qualification Group Tiers 1 and 2
The remaining third-placed team, and the fourth, fifth and sixth-placed teams from all three National Groups will go into the 10-team Qualification Group Tier 1. The three seventh-placed teams and Group 1's eighth-placed team will go into Tier 2.
Knockout stage
The second and third teams from the Elite Group Stage will play a semi-final, while the first-placed team will face the winner of a play-off between the two winners of Qualification Group Tiers 1 and 2. The two winning semi-finalists will then meet in the final.
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Our last outing saw us beat Bolton 2-1 before we head into the Christmas break. This was last monday.
Baggies secure place in Elite Group
ADIL Nabi’s 26th-minute wonder strike helped the Baggies earn a 2-1 victory over Bolton in the Barclays Under 21 Premier League.
The visitors went ahead through Adam Blakeman on 16 minutes before Ben Hampson’s own goal levelled the scores.
Nabi earned the Baggies a deserved lead ten minutes later when he curled the ball into the top-right hand corner from 25 yards.
The win sees David Oldfield’s side seal a spot in the Premier League's Elite Group following the Christmas break courtesy of their third-place finish.
Albion suffered an early scare with five minutes on the clock as Shane Lewis’ clearance struck Marvin Sordell on the back and landed wide of the Baggies goal.
The Wanderers were ahead after 16 minutes when Joe McKee’s cross-cum-shot was not gathered by Lewis and Blakeman was on hand to fire home from six yards.
David Oldfield’s outfit levelled inside ten minutes through a spectacular Nabi strike.
The 18-year-old turned McQuade from Kemar Roofe’s pass before stroking his 25-yard effort into the top right-hand corner.
Roofe could have made it 3-1 on 34 minutes but his 25-yard shot passed the left-hand post following good work from Rees Wedderburn.
Nabi should have grabbed another 60 seconds later but miss-hit his right-foot strike wide of the right-hand post.
The Baggies continued to apply pressure and Aaron Birch could might have extended Albion’s lead on 38 minutes but was unable to get a shot away after Roofe played him in.
Wanderers would have been level two minutes later had Alex McQuade fired his left-foot volley under the crossbar from Kelly’s corner.
David Oldfield’s team started the second half brightly and Roofe’s 25-yard free-kick on 47 was well saved by Lonergan in the Bolton goal.
The Trotters continued to manufacture chances with left-back Andy Kellett repeatedly breaking forward down the left.
The full-back fired a left-foot effort just over the bar from 20 yards with 50 minutes played.
The ball was in the Bolton net on 63 but Nabi was adjudged to have fouled McQuade before netting what would have been his second goal of the afternoon.
Moments later, Donervorn Daniels went on a meandering run, resulting in a low right-foot effort sailing just wide of the left-hand post following a tidy exchange with Nabi.
Daniels had a golden opportunity to double Albion’s lead on 73 but clipped his header wide from Roofe’s corner.
Alex Jones replaced Wedderburn on 84 and quickly caused problems for the visitors. Less than 60 seconds after taking to the field he broke down the right and pulled back for Roofe who was denied by a superb
one-handed save from Lonergan.
Albion soaked up substantial Bolton pressure in the final moments to claim all three points.
ALBION: Lewis; C Jones, D Daniels, C Dawson, Garmston; O’Neil, Birch; Roofe; A Nabi, Wedderburn (A Jones 81); Sawyers. Subs not used: Palmer, Barrow, Pace, Smart.
BOLTON: Lonergan; Riley, Kellett, McQuade, Hampson, Blakeman, Lester, Kelly (Woodland 80), Sordell (Odelusi 90), McKee (Iliev 71), Sampson. Subs not used: Threlkeld, Fielding.
GOALS: ALBION – Nabi (26), Hampson OG (41); BOLTON – Blakeman (16)
BOOKINGS: None.
REFEREE: Neil Radford (Worcestershire)
ALBION STARMAN: Adil Nabi
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Well done to the lads. Great effort.
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Glad to hear that the lads beat bolton, well done.
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Cant remember the last time a young player broke through to become a regular first teamer to be honest.The days of Statham and Robson are long since gone!
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Cant remember the last time a young player broke through to become a regular first teamer to be honest.The days of Statham and Robson are long since gone!
Coldictot. Chambers x 2,
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If we had been in the championship then we would have a number of home grown players like Wood, Berahino, Hurst, Thorne, maybe Mantom and maybe Daniels all playing full or bit parts in the campaign.
Being in the premier league however means our players have to move even quicker and this is our problem. It isnt impossible because Villa produce lots of players at this level and although they are probably the best at it, lots of other teams also bring through home grown players like Southampton and Crystal Palace.
Hopefully the next few years of player will produce one or two premier league quality players. If not, questions need to be asked.
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I was thinking that there didn't seem to have been any under 21/reserve matches lately and, having checked, found that the "season" seemingly finished on Dec 3rd! This makes no sense to me at all, as younger players and peripheral first team squad players need competitive matches to keep their fitness levels up and find some form. I know some players can go out on loan, but we also need a players playing for us using our shape and tactics.
Does anyone know why there are now so few under 21/reserve matches?
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I believe that there are two "seasons" last season was the groups and the highest two of each group go to the Elite group and the rest into a regular group, I think it's later this year around Feb/March to the end of the actual season.
But then I'm guessing!
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I believe that there are two "seasons" last season was the groups and the highest two of each group go to the Elite group and the rest into a regular group, I think it's later this year around Feb/March to the end of the actual season.
But then I'm guessing!
This is the future of grassroots football, to have two "seasons" in one season, one pre Christmas and the other post Christmas
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Im planning on going down to London colney to watch the 21s tomorrow - first day in London from Sydney and what a start to the trip! Any info on how to get tickets or location of ground or who's in team?
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This match is a behind closed doors match so unfortunatley mate it is not open to the public.
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Dates set for Albion's Elite Group games
ALBION will kick off the Elite Group stage of their Barclays U21 Premier League campaign at Arsenal on Wednesday, January 9 (ko 1pm).
The Baggies will face Tottenham, Manchester United, Wolves, West Ham, Liverpool and Southampton, in addition to the Gunners.
David Oldfield’s outfit qualified for the Elite Group after finishing third in National Group 1 prior to the Christmas break.
Albion's first game at The Hawthorns is against Wolves on Monday, February 4 (ko 7pm).
To view their fixtures - Click Here (http://www.wba.co.uk/fixtures-results/reserves/http://www.wba.co.uk/fixtures-results/reserves/)
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Under 21's drew 1-1 at Arsenal today, only players of note for us Scott Allan, Sam Mantom and Luke Daniels whilst Arsenal had 7 members of their first-team squad including Diaby and Oxlade-Chamberlain in their side.
http://arsenalyouth.wordpress.com/2013/01/09/diaby-returns-but-frimpong-sent-off-as-u21s-draw-with-west-brom/
Arsenal U21s began their Elite Group campaign with a hard-fought draw against West Bromwich Albion at London Colney this afternoon. West Brom took the lead early on, but Andre Santos levelled for a largely experienced Arsenal outfit, for whom Emmanuel Frimpong was sent off late on.
Coach Terry Burton called upon an extremely strong side, with seven members of the first-team squad making the starting line-up. Abou Diaby and Santos made their first appearances following spells on the sidelines, whilst Frimpong, Vito Mannone, Carl Jenkinson, Francis Coquelin and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain were also called upon. Conor Henderson, meanwhile, marked his return from a frustrating loan spell at Coventry City by making the bench.
Mannone
Jenkinson-Angha-Hajrovic-Santos
Coquelin-Frimpong
Eisfeld-Diaby-Chamberlain
Akpom
subs: C-Cook, Monteiro, Bihmoutine, Henderson (for Diaby, 67), Ansah (for Chamerlain, 70).
West Brom, in contrast, named a rather inexperienced side, with midfielder Scott Allan their most prominent player, and it was no surprise that Arsenal started the brightest of the two sides, with Jenkinson seeing a shot pushed away by Luke Daniels.
Coquelin then tried his luck from distance, before Chuba Akpom, one of the few players in the side without first-team experience, was flagged for offside having been played through by Jenkinson.
Despite the Arsenal pressure, however, it was the visitors who struck the first notable blow, with Mannone left stranded when the alert Adil Nabi headed home a well-delivered free-kick.
Frimpong hit a deflected effort on goal as some means of retaliation, but Mannone had to react quickly at the other end to prevent Romaine Sawyers from doubling West Brom’s advantage, with the Italian making an impressive stop at the feet of the striker.
Oxlade-Chamberlain, who was a lively presence throughout the first-half, then stung the palms of Daniels with a typically ferocious shot from the edge of the area, before Akpom and Frimpong both came close to restoring parity.
The equaliser finally came on the stroke of half-time as Diaby, impressive on his return, threaded the ball through to Santos, after it was allowed to run by Frimpong, and the Brazilian slotted past Daniels to make it 1-1.
Arsenal, buoyed by their goal, began the second period in the ascendancy, with Akpom seeing a header saved following a precise delivery from Oxlade-Chamberlain. Shortly afterwards, Martin Angha saw a shot cleared off the line by the alert Sawyers.
Santos then struck a free-kick wide from distance, before Henderson entered the fray in place of Diaby. Henderson nearly made an instant impact, but Daniels just about managed to hold his swerving effort.
Just when it looked as if an Arsenal winner was somewhat inevitable, Nabi tested Mannone twice in quick succession, before Frimpong reduced Arsenal’s chances of a late winner by being sent off for a rash challenge having already picked up a yellow card.
That proved to be the last meaningful action of an entertaining game, and one which Arsene Wenger will no doubt be pleased with having seen several members of his squad, Diaby especially, come through unscathed.
Arsenal’s next game is away to Southampton later this month.
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That sounds a good result against a far more experienced Arsenal team. Nabi seems to get on the scoresheet quite a bit, anyone seen him play ?
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That sounds a good result against a far more experienced Arsenal team. Nabi seems to get on the scoresheet quite a bit, anyone seen him play ?
Can't say I have but i think he's about 17 and in that second wave of academy products with Donervon Daniels. Probably just overshadowed by Chris and Saido in the public eye.
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Nabi is 18 at the moment, 19 in February or March now. He was great at schoolboy level and started well at academy level but faded. He hasn't developed much physically and here might be question marks over his pace and power at the pro level but he seems to be scoring again now he has gone from under 18's to under 21's level.
When I have seen him, he has bee very lively and confident. He seems to play just behind the strikers and likes to go for goal.
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That was a very encouraging result. By the looks of it we weren't played off the park but held our own for large parts of the game and created several chances of our own.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/arsenal-u21-1-albion-u21-1-588525.aspx
Baggies earn valuable point in first Elite Group fixture
ALBION drew 1-1 at Arsenal in their opening Barclays U21 Premier League Elite Group fixture at London Colney earlier today.
Adil Nabi’s 22nd-minute header gave the Baggies the lead but Brazil international left-back Andre Santos pulled one back for the hosts moments before the half-time interval.
Terry Burton’s outfit also included Arsenal big guns Emmanuel Frimpong, Francis Coquelin, Abou Diaby and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain.
And development coach David Oldfield believes it was important to put in a solid performance in their first game following the Christmas break.
“The boys played well and worked very hard,” said Oldfield.
“They worked as a team which is what was needed today against a strong Arsenal team.
“It was a pleasing performance and a positive result.
“It’s not all about results but it’s good to come to Arsenal and get a draw.
“We played against one or two of their big boys and equipped ourselves well.
“The lads worked hard, passed the ball well, and were very much a part of the game.
“We talked before the game about the talented young players Arsenal have and it’s always a good challenge to play against proven professionals.”
ARSENAL: Mannone; Jenkinson, Hajrovic, Angha, Santos; Oxlade-Chamberlain (Ansah 70), Diaby (Henderson 65), Coquelin, Frimpong; Akpom, Eisfeld. Subs not used: Charles-Cook, Monteiro, Bihmoutine.
ALBION: L Daniels; Atkinson, Gayle, C Jones, Garmston; O’Neil, Birch; A Nabi, Mantom (Pace 70), Allan; Sawyers. Subs not used: Lewis (gk); Ambalu, Francis, Wedderburn.
GOALS: Albion – Nabi (22) Arsenal – Santos (45)
SENDING-OFF: Arsenal – Frimpong (second bookable offence 90+1)
REFEREE: Keith Hill
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As an aside. Is Terry Burton back with us again? Haven't heard anything about that one, thought he left to coach for Dave Jones at Sheffield Wednesday.
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He aint very loyal if he is with us,he was managing the Arsenal kids ;p
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Aha that explains it! ;D
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We take on the dingles tonight.
Teams are:
Albion U21 team v Wolves: Daniels; Hurst, Atkinson, O’Neil, Smart; Birch, Allan; S Nabi, A Nabi, Roofe; Sawyers. Subs: Palmer (gk); Pace, Wedderburn, Francis, I Brown.
Wolves U21 team v Albion: De Vries, Cranston, Tank, Ihiekwe, Reckord, Price, Evans, Whittall, Hunt, McAlinden, Winnall. Subs: Cotman, Jakobsson, Kellermann, Ismail, Parry.
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Are the Nabis bros/twins?! Hopefully better than our last set!
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Half time.
Albion 0 Dingles 0
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WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
FT: Albion U21 1 (Roofe 74) Wolves U21 0
:D :D
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well done the Baggy babbies! ;D
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WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
FT: Albion U21 1 (Roofe 74) Wolves U21 0
:D :D
We Know What We Are !
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Are the Nabis bros/twins?! Hopefully better than our last set!
Brothers and it sounds like there's a third on the books as well.
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/wolves-h-u21-match-report-639066.aspx
Baggies battle to deserved victory at The Hawthorns
KEMAR Roofe’s unstoppable strike was enough to seal all three points for Albion in their Barclays U21 Premier League Elite Group clash with Wolves at The Hawthorns this evening.
The Baggies had the better of both possession and chances throughout the fixture but were unable to make either count until Roofe fired a rocket into the back of Dorus De Vries’ net on 74 minutes.
David Oldfield selected an inexperienced Baggies XI featuring Scott Allan, Luke Daniels, James Hurst, Romaine Sawyers and Kemar Roofe.
While the visitors had Stephen Hunt in their starting line-up as he continued his recuperation following hip surgery in October.
And Albion’s Black Country neighbours were nearly ahead after ten minutes when Sam Whittall headed just over from Hunt’s in-swinging free-kick.
The Baggies carved out a chance of their own on 21 but De Vries parried Sawyers’ low ten-yard strike from Adil Nabi’s throughball.
Seven minutes later Adil’s younger brother Samir struck over after finding the space to turn and shoot inside the visitors’ penalty area.
Allan made his first real impact on the game in the 33rd minute as his 25-yard pass split Wolves’ defence in two but Jamie Tank recovered to deny Roofe with a last-ditch tackle.
Oldfield’s young side continued to establish their superiority on the game as the half drew on and they were close to taking the lead on 36 minutes with Roofe’s powerful effort passing narrowly over De Vries’ bar from 18 yards.
Albion squandered another good opportunity to take the lead on 39 and this time it was Adil Nabi who blasted wide from Sawyers’ throughball.
Jack Price was on hand to clear James Hurst’s low volley off the line from Roofe’s corner two minutes before the half-time whistle.
Hunt could have put Wanderers ahead in first-half stoppage time but his weakly-hit free-kick sailed well over Daniels’ goal from 20 yards out.
And the Baggies went into the interval wondering how they were not ahead after dominating much of the first 45 minutes.
Oldfield’s outfit returned from the break unchanged while the visitors made one substitution with Stephen Hunt making way for Zeli Ismail.
Wolves started the second half somewhat rejuvenated and Daniels needed to be alert to block Price from Sam Winnall’s throughball seven minutes after the restart.
Adil Nabi was again the focal point of Albion’s attack 60 seconds later and should have at least placed his left-foot effort on target from inside ten yards but instead struck over.
Moments later Roofe ran down the left wing and provided an excellent cross for Adil Nabi but his weak header fell straight into the arms of De Vries.
But Roofe took the derby by the scruff of the neck on 74 and blasted a right-foot thunderbolt into the top-right-hand corner from 25 yards.
The Baggies were good value for their lead and comfortably saw out the remaining 16 minutes of the fixture to collect all three points at The Hawthorns.
ALBION (4-2-3-1): Daniels; Hurst, Atkinson, O’Neil, Smart; Birch, Allan; Roofe (Wedderburn 85), A Nabi, S Nabi (I Brown 75); Sawyers. Subs not used: Palmer (gk); Pace, Francis.
WOLVES (4-4-2): De Vries; Cranston, Tank, Ihiekwe (c), Reckord; Price, Evans, Whittall, Hunt (Ismail HT); McAlinden (Parry 75), Winnall. Subs not used: Cotman, Jakobsson, Kellermann.
GOALS: ALBION – Roofe (74)
BOOKINGS: None.
REFEREE: M Dexter (Leicestershire)
ATTENDANCE: 446
ALBION STARMAN: Kemar Roofe
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Great to see the good run against Wolves is still going.
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Always nice to see a goal against the Dingles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n5zg1IfXKA4&feature=youtu.be
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couple of nice bits of play there - and a great goal
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Great shot, but very strange goal, one Albion player surrounded by eight Wolves, yet he scored. :)
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No Daniels in goal against West Ham tonight (7pm kick off)...Piquionne on the bench for the Hammers.....is it Frederic?!.
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We face Liverpool today. Kick off was at 2pm.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
Albion U21 squad v Liverpool (ko 2pm): Allan, Atkinson, Birch, I Brown, Francis, Hurst, C Jones, Lewis, A Nabi, S Nabi, O’Neil, Palmer, Roofe, Sawyers, Smart, Wedderburn.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
Liverpool U21 team v Albion: Ward; McLaughlin, Sama, Coady, Robinson, Pelosi, Suso, Teixeria, Morgan, Adorjan, Ibe.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
GOAL! Albion U21 0 Liverpool U21 1 (Ibe 19)
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SENDING OFF. Liam O'Neil for foul on Marc Pelosi. Currently losing 2-1
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We lost 2-1.
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Looked a nasty injury to Pelosi ,was prob a 60-40 ball ,interestingly ref didn't show red card but just ushered our lad off the pitch strange one ,but the crack sounded nasty around a mostly empty stadium , Was a good game very frantic pace for the whole game ,both teams very evenly matched their keeper pulled off an outstanding save or would have been 2-2
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21-1-liverpool-u21-2-661795.aspx
Baggies narrowly beaten by the Reds
ALBION fell to only their second Barclays U21 Premier League defeat since November in a 2-1 loss to Liverpool at The Hawthorns this afternoon.
Goals from Jordan Ibe and Joao Teixeira earned the visitors all three points - despite Adil Nabi's 53-rd minute strike.
Development coach David Oldfield made two changes to the side that lost 2-0 at West Ham last time out - with Shane Lewis replacing Alex Palmer in goal and Aaron Birch making way for Callum Jones.
Isaiah Brown kept his place in the starting XI after netting his first England goal in the under-16s’ 4-3 defeat by Germany on Wednesday.
Seeking revenge for Albion’s impressive 2-0 victory at Anfield on Monday, the visitors started brightly and could have been ahead inside two minutes, but Lewis was on hand to turn Teixeira’s right-foot strike behind from Adam Morgan’s knockdown.
The Reds broke again three minutes later when Ibe cut in from the wing to send a powerful left-foot effort just wide of Lewis’ right-hand post from 20 yards.
And the Merseyside outfit were ahead on 19 minutes with Ibe on hand to tap home Morgan’s cutback after Teixiera’s throughball dissected Albion’s back four.
Morgan narrowly missed out on extending the the Reds’ lead eight minutes later but his delicate left-foot shot narrowly passed the right-hand post following more excellent work from Ibe on the left.
Liverpool went close again three minutes prior to the interval with Marc Pelosi’s 25-yard strike just missing the left-hand upright after deflecting off Wesley Atkinson.
The Baggies drew level on 53 minutes with Adil Nabi showing composure to smash the ball home from ten yards after the Reds were unable to clear their lines.
Nabi played in Isaiah Brown moments later but the 16-year-old midfielder was denied by Conor Coady's last-ditch tackle.
Albion went close again in the 58th minute but Liverpool keeper Daniel Ward parried Scott Allan’s right-foot half-volley from 20 yards.
The Reds regained their one-goal advantage on 76 minutes as Teixeira coolly finished from Suso’s throughball.
The visitors might have extended their lead six minutes later but Suso struck his left-foot free-kick over the bar from just outside the penalty area.
Liam O’Neil came close to equalising moments later but his redirected effort from James Hurst’s cross-cum-shot whistled past the left-hand post from 15 yards out.
But on 87 minutes O’Neil was dismissed for a late challenge on Pelosi which left the German youngster requiring a stretcher to leave the field.
The injury saw the game halted for over eight minutes and neither side were able to create any chances when it restarted.
ALBION (4-2-3-1): Lewis; Hurst, Atkinson, C Jones, Smart; Allan, O’Neil (c); I Brown (Birch 81), A Nabi, Roofe; Sawyers. Subs not used: Palmer (gk); Wedderburn, Francis, S Nabi.
LIVERPOOL (4-4-1-1): Ward; McLaughlin, Sama, Coady (c), Robinson; Suso, Teixeira, Pelosi, Ibe (Dunn 77); Adorjan, Morgan. Subs: Belford, Nacho, Roddan, Jones.
GOALS: ALBION – A Nabi (53) LIVERPOOL – Ibe (19), Teixeira (76)
BOOKINGS: Hurst (foul 65)
SENDING-OFF: O’Neil (foul 87)
REFEREE: Rob Ellis (West Midlands)
ATTENDANCE: 405
ALBION STARMAN: Adil Nabi
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Looked a nasty injury to Pelosi ,was prob a 60-40 ball ,interestingly ref didn't show red card but just ushered our lad off the pitch strange one ,but the crack sounded nasty around a mostly empty stadium , Was a good game very frantic pace for the whole game ,both teams very evenly matched their keeper pulled off an outstanding save or would have been 2-2
Wasn't a 60-40 ball by any means going by the highlights, very late, high and with intent, absolute horror challenge and I hope your management makes that clear to him. Unacceptable at any level of the game.
As for Pelosi he broke both the bones in his leg and will probably not play again until the end of the year if he's lucky, could well be a career ender if he isnt. Real shame as he was really impressing at U21 level and had been given a squad number for the Europa league, along with training with the first team.
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Another defeat to Southampton yesterday:
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/ston-u21-2-albion-u21-0-678999.aspx
Late goal in each half beats Baggies
ALBION suffered a third successive Barclays Under-21 Premier League Elite Group defeat as defensive errors saw them lose 2-0 at Southampton.
The Baggies played well at times on a tricky pitch at Eastleigh FC’s Silverlake Stadium.
But the Saints struck a killer blow when Omar Rowe scored the opener seconds before half-time.
The visitors were unable to create any clear-cut chances after the break and Jake Sinclair added a second for the hosts seven minutes from time.
Albion development coach David Oldfield said: “We enjoyed many good passages of play and passed it well on a difficult pitch.
“There were some good performances by certain individuals but some poor defending cost us both goals.
“Both were preventable, especially the first one.
“We need to consistently do our work and defend collectively.
“The detail makes all the difference.”
SOUTHAMPTON: Gazzaniga, Chambers, Stephens (c), Turnbull, Targett, Robinson (Curtis 68), Moore, Ward-Prowse, Sinclair, Rowe, Seidi (McQueen 74). Subs not used: Johns (gk), Young, Gallagher.
ALBION: Lewis, Hurst, Atkinson, C Jones, Smart, Roofe, O’Neil (c), Allan, Brown (Wedderburn 83), A Nabi, Sawyers. Subs not used: Palmer (gk), Birch, Francis, S Nabi.
GOALS: SOUTHAMPTON – Rowe (45), Sinclair (83).
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Back in action against Arsenal today. Side is:
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
Albion U21 team v Arsenal: Myhill; Hurst, C Jones, Atkinson, Smart; Birch, Allan; I Brown, A Nabi, Roofe; Sawyers.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
Albion U21 subs v Arsenal: Lewis (gk); Francis, Wedderburn, Howkins, S Nabi.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
Arsenal U21 team v Albion: Fabianski; Boateng, Angha, Yennaris, Monterio, Miquel, Ansah, Wynter, Akpom, Henderson, Neita.
Score is currently:
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
Albion U21 2 (Roofe 39, A Nabi 50) Arsenal U21 0
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WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
GOAL. Albion U21 2 (Roofe 39, A Nabi 50) Arsenal U21 1 (Smart OG 62)
Romaine Sawyers has also missed a penalty.
Edit:
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
GOAL. Albion U21 2 (Roofe 39, A Nabi 50) Arsenal U21 2 (Smart OG 62, Akpom 67)
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Went up to this game today..
Was a good game ..Nice to watch 2 teams attack each other..
Have to say Scott Allan looks a top player in the making..Tenacious, never gave the ball away at all..Sprayed the ball all over the park..He ran the centre mid today..
Was also impressed with Kemar Roofe who played left side of midfield..Fast tricky and a great finish for his goal..
Brown,Smart and Nabi were decent...
Shame Sawyers missed the pen as it would put us 3-1 up at the time..
Enjoyable game and Scott Allan certainly caught the eye..
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Glad to hear Allan did well. Got a feeling he could be one who if given the chance, might rise to the challenge of 1st team football...possibly a couple of 20 minute spells in the Mozza role between now and the end of the season ?
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I would be very suprise to see Allan making any more than 1 or 2 appearances for us in the Prem. I'd expect him to go for a nominal fee in the summer to a low championship or league 1 side.
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Presumably none of us have seen enough of Allan to judge properly. He's under contract for next season, seems to have talent, so hope we don't offload too lightly.
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Presumably none of us have seen enough of Allan to judge properly. He's under contract for next season, seems to have talent, so hope we don't offload too lightly.
Can't remember the article, but I remember Keith Downing saying when he went to Portsmouth it was to hopefully get him to learn on the pitch to improve his defensive ability and off the ball positioning. He had the same issues as Yassine did, does he look better in that regard?
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Can't remember the article, but I remember Keith Downing saying when he went to Portsmouth it was to hopefully get him to learn on the pitch to improve his defensive ability and off the ball positioning. He had the same issues as Yassine did, does he look better in that regard?
It is the most difficult part of the game simply because its not natural for kids to learn. When a kid gets hold of a ball his natural instinct is to dribble, pass or shoot no young kid looks at closing down or blocking angles. It is a MASSIVE part of the modern game.
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I can only give an opinion on what i saw today but he was so strong in the tackle..Wanted the ball constantly..Never gave it away..Linked up play well..
I dont want to go on about him but he was superb with both feet...Put himself about and never shirked a tackle..
Still early days with him but he looks a prospect...As does Roofe..
Time will tell..
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Todays game at home to Manchester United is live on MUTV SKY 418 for anyone who has it.
For some reason i've got it but not a subscriber so hoping its not a freeview for the prematch part lol
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Lineup -
Myhill; Atkinson; Daniels; Jones; Smart; Roofe; Birch; Allan; Brown. Sawyers; A Nabi
subs: Francis; Lewis; Pace; Wedderburn; S Nabi
Only notable United player is Lindegaard in goal
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Come on you Baggies.
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Todays game at home to Manchester United is live on MUTV SKY 418 for anyone who has it.
For some reason i've got it but not a subscriber so hoping its not a freeview for the prematch part lol
Hence a stream is available, so I get a very rare chance to watch them. :)
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Stream here : http://nutjob.eu/njtvx1.html
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Were having most of the play but little cutting edge.
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Ref just gave a penalty for a foul outside the box, then changed his mind and came to his sense. MUTV commentators admit it was bizarre.
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Never a penalty to be fair, ref made the right decision in the end, fair play to him.
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Getting tired of hearing about it from the commentators by now. Put it to bed.
Izzy went off with a knock earlier.
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Hope its not a serious one, he's due to join up with the England under 17's this week for a game at Walsall on Saturday I think it is
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Soooo close for Adil Nabi. :(
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Damn. All that good defending and now everything just came unstuck.
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Sorry guys. Just logged on to the stream for 3 mins and yanited scored twice. I´ll get me coat.
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Sorry guys. Just logged on to the stream for 3 mins and yanited scored twice. I´ll get me coat.
I just knew you were to blame. >:(
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Dingles away tonight if anyone is interested 7pm at the Custard Bowl.
Its £4 to get in for adults and £1 for concessions
http://www.wolves.co.uk/news/article/u21-wolves-v-west-brom-050413-754247.aspx
ALBION (from): Allan, Atkinson, Barrow, Birch, D Daniels, L Daniels (gk), Francis, C Jones, Lewis (gk), A Nabi, S Nabi, O’Neil, Pace, Roofe, Smart.
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I hope they get a good result tonight at the custard bowl. COYB.
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Finished 1-1. First half all Wolves second half was more even with both sides having chances, Luke Daniels made a few excellent saves, Donervan Daniels solid at the back along with the lad next to him who's name I can't remember. Two Nabi's up front caused a few problems. Kemar Roofe with the goal.
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A draws not to bad, thanks for the report Oldbury. Much of a crowd there tonight.
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Finished 1-1. First half all Wolves second half was more even with both sides having chances, Luke Daniels made a few excellent saves, Donervan Daniels solid at the back along with the lad next to him who's name I can't remember. Two Nabi's up front caused a few problems. Kemar Roofe with the goal.
Did you go mate?
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Yes mate, was over to the right by the dugout at the back
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Many other Albion fans there?
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Probably 30 or so. They said the attendance was 600 plus but didn't look anywhere near that many, only one block open in the main stand whatever its called with the dugouts and there was probably 50 or so in the new stand.
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Tomorrows game at Liverpool live on LFC TV 12.15 SKY 429
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54 mins 1-0 Liverpool u21, goal from Nacho, cross from Suso
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62 mins Liverpool u21 2-0 Cody long range shot, thought keeper Lewis should have done better, shame as he's had a good game so far
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Finished 2-0 Liverpool.
Best team won, Albion defended well, Shane Lewis in goal man of the match for me up against a decent Liverpool side.
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Shame that we lost the game but I imagine Liverpool must have a pretty decent team, who have we got next?
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Drew 3-3 at home to Southampton today, coming from 3-0 down to equalise in the last minute
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What a comeback it will still 3-0 to Southampton with only twenty minutes to go.
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21-3-southampton-u21-3-785331.aspx
Baggies’ 16-minute salvo denies Saints
ALBION fought back from three goals behind to earn a 3-3 draw with Southampton in the Barclays U21 Premier League at the club’s training ground this afternoon.
Alex Jones (pictured), Shaun Donnellan and Joel Ambalu all netted in the final 16 minutes as the Baggies completed a superb comeback.
Kemar Roofe started for David Oldfield’s side after being named in Steve Clarke’s squad to face Newcastle at The Hawthorns yesterday.
Albion were behind after only five minutes when Donervorn Daniels headed into his own net from Lloyd Isgrove’s cross.
The Saints might have extended their lead on 22 but for some fine goalkeeping from Luke Daniels.
The 25-year-old was on hand to deny Jake Sinclair’s powerful left-foot effort with a strong one-handed save.
Isgrove could have had a second but his low 39th-minute strike was comfortably gathered by Daniels from 20 yards.
The visitors doubled their lead three minutes after the interval.
Sinclair volleyed past Daniels from Callum Chambers’ inch-perfect cross.
Donervorn Daniels came close for the hosts moments later – but his header bounced over the bar from six yards out.
Chambers so nearly made it three on 63 but his drilled left-foot shot crashed against upright from the edge of the area.
Southampton could have scored another five minutes later but James Ward Prowse failed to get on the end of Sinclair’s cross – despite a Gazza-like lunge at the back post.
The Saints got their third on 69 as substitute Ryan Seager turned onto his left foot and curled the ball into the top left-hand corner from 20 yards.
A three-goal lead should have been sufficient for the visitors but Oldfield’s outfit were soon on the comeback trail.
Alex Jones scrambled home on 74 after Scott Allan’s corner bounced off just about every player inside the box before falling to his feet.
Substitute Shaun Donnellan netted with his first touch five minutes later after great work from Alex Jones to hold up the ball inside the penalty area.
But it was fellow-sub Joel Ambalu - on for Roofe at the interval - who scored the 90th-minute equaliser.
The winger chased down a Saints back-pass before rounding keeper Cody Cropper and coolly slotting the ball into the goal to earn the Baggies a point.
ALBION: L Daniels, Francis, D Daniels (c), C Jones, Smart (Donnellan 74); Birch, Allan; Roofe (Ambalu HT), A Nabi, Atkinson; A Jones. Subs not used: Lewis (gk); McCalla.
SOUTHAMPTON: Cropper; Chambers, Forren, Stephens, Targett; Ward Prowse, Curtis; Isgrove, Moore, Rowe (Seager 63); Sinclair. Subs not used: Turnbull, Johns, Young, Reed.
GOALS: ALBION – A Jones (74), Donnellan (79), Ambalu (90). SOUTHAMPTON - D Daniels OG (5), Sinclair (48), Seager (69)
BOOKINGS: None
REFEREE: S Barrow (Staffordshire)
ALBION STARMAN: Joel Ambalu
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on MUTV live tonight .goal down inside 10mins and getting shredded
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Incase anyone wants to watch tonights game: http://88.80.5.88/c4b00/20130429/vv517ebd1185366392868568-571782.html
Scott Allen threw in a few monster crosses so far and Daniels (I think) smacked one against the post. So far we're 1-0 down.
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What was the final score in that match please?
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What was the final score in that match please?
1-0 united
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Just seen James Hurst tweet that today is his last day at Albion, so he has obviously been released or got a move elsewhere.
Not seen anything on the website yet, shame as a few years ago he was on the verge of the first team.
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I guess he's one who'se been around a bit longer - young player of the year what 2 years ago ? This could become a regular thing when academy players are old enough to need to take a place in the squad of 25, either they are judged good enough to do so or they are left with nowhere to go but out. Doesn't necessarily mean they are not good players or haven't put the work in - just that they are not quite good enough to make it in a tough league.
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Last game of the season today at home to West Ham behind closed doors at the training ground 3pm kick off, squad is
ALBION (from): Atkinson, Birch, I Brown, D Daniels, Gayle, C Jones, Lewis, Molyneux, A Nabi, S Nabi, N’Kumu, O’Neil, Pace, Rose, Sawyers, Smart.
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I wonder what is happening to the goalkeeper Shane Lewis. I've seen him a couple of times and was reasonably impressed on both occasions but he was left out of the last game at Old Trafford and he mentioned playing some sort of trial game on his twitter.
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I wonder what is happening to the goalkeeper Shane Lewis. I've seen him a couple of times and was reasonably impressed on both occasions but he was left out of the last game at Old Trafford and he mentioned playing some sort of trial game on his twitter.
Tweeted today was his last game for WBA so guess he has been released.
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I guess it was the last game for three or four of them today, can't see us keeping any of the 'professionals' that played today apart from Donervorn Daniels & Adil Nabi (is he a professional ?)
Shane Lewis has really improved since Xmas but how can we keep him, we have three good goalkeepers in front of him in the pecking order, he made one great save today, I guess our U21 goalkeeper for next year will be Jack Rose.
It was a good game today, two evenly matched teams, in which we just came out on top, 1-0, with a goal straight from a free kick by Adil Nabi.
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Good to see Donervon Daniels has made the England under 20 squad for the under 20 world cup in June, always nice to see an academy prospect doing well. Next season will be the big one for him I suspect, no doubt a loan or two and a decision will be made on whether to keep him.
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I wonder what is happening to the goalkeeper Shane Lewis. I've seen him a couple of times and was reasonably impressed on both occasions but he was left out of the last game at Old Trafford and he mentioned playing some sort of trial game on his twitter.
Shane Lewis ?@ShaneLewis04 12m
Finally signing off the season and my time at West Brom today! Been a great 6 years and I'm truly grateful to everybody involved with the
club for everything they have done for me! A huge thank you to the coaches for putting their time into me at a young age and giving me a
chance to improve myself season upon season with Their knowledge and skills within football! Hopefully the future is bright for both and
i will cross paths again with many of the players and staff! Thank-You!!
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I think its difficult for young goalkeepers these days as its a position where you can only play 1 in any team, with us having Foster, Myhill and Daniels it will be hard for any keeper to make a breakthrough.
I saw Lewis in the game against Liverpool not long ago and he was man of the match for me, kept us in it a few times, hopefully he will get fixed up with a club soon and get a chance.
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It's a shame Lewis is going, as mentioned before I've seen him a couple of times and have been impressed but there are only so many goalkeepers you can have I guess. Hope he gets a decent club.
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Nice comments from him - hope he finds a good club and has a good future.
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Very good comments from him. I wish him all of the best for the future I hope where ever he goes he does well for them and that we see him at a Football leauge club soon. It is very hard for goalkeepers to play regular football, espcially as we have some of the ilk of Ben Fotser.
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We were in action today against Blackburn - we won 1-0 - A Jones with the goal.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
Albion U21s v Blackburn: L Daniels; Francis, Atkinson, O’Neil, D Daniels (c), Gayle, Roofe, Birch, A Jones, Ferrier (trialist), Wedderburn.
Albion U21 subs v Blackburn: Rose (gk); O’Sullivan, Hayes, C Jones, Ward.
http://www.wba.co.uk/fixtures-results/reserves/ - the fixture list for those which are interested.
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Baggies overcome Rovers in season opener
ALBION battled to a 1-0 victory over Blackburn Rovers in the Barclays U21 Premier League at the club’s training ground this afternoon.
Alex Jones’ first-half header was enough to seal three points for the Baggies in their opening fixture of the campaign.
Aaron Birch and Wes Atkinson started for David Oldfield’s side - after featuring for the first team in a friendly against Genoa earlier this month.
Albion began the brighter of the two sides with Liam O’Neil’s tame header floating over from Reece Wedderburn’s high corner on 12 minutes.
Rovers had a chance of their own 14 minutes later when Tim Payne’s 30-yard strike travelled just over Luke Daniels’ crossbar.
Less than 60 seconds later Kemar Roofe hit a left-foot effort wide of David Raya’s left-hand post from outside the area.
Experienced right-back Bradley Orr volleyed just wide for the visitors on 32 minutes after making excellent contact with Adam Henley’s driven cross.
Fabio Nunes’ 25-yard goalbound free-kick took everyone by surprise eight minutes before the interval – but Luke Daniels was alert to the threat and tipped the ball over the bar.
The Baggies were ahead moments later.
Rovers keeper Raya could not keep hold of Kemar Roofe’s right-wing cross – and Alex Jones headed home from inches out to give Oldfield’s outfit the lead at the break.
Albion should have doubled their advantage 90 seconds after the restart.
Trialist Morgan Ferrier’s eight-yard volley flew just over the upright - after Birch’s shot deflected off a defender and looped into his path.
Both sides found second-half goal scoring opportunities difficult to come by – as the hosts looked to seal their first three points of the season.
The Baggies could have put the game beyond doubt in the dying moments.
Alex Jones was denied by a fantastic Raya save in the 89th minute after Birch played him in with an inch-perfect throughball.
ALBION (4-4-2): L Daniels; Francis, D Daniels, Gayle, Atkinson; Roofe (Hayes 87), O’Neil (O’Sullivan 63), Birch, Wedderburn (Ward 55); Ferrier (trialist), A Jones. Subs not used: Rose (gk); C Jones, Ward.
BLACKBURN: Raya; Orr, Henley (Vicars 57), Jorge (Pero 77), Daly, Tumwa, Nunes, Payne, Preston, Bauress, Hanley. Subs not used: Paul, Urwin, Haley.
GOALS: ALBION – A Jones (39)
BOOKINGS: None
REFEREE: Steven Plane (Worcestershire)
ALBION STARMAN: Donervorn Daniels
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21-1-blackburn-u21-0-988228.aspx
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/bolton-u21-a-13-1003290.aspx
SAIDO Berahino fired a brace as Albion recorded a 2-2 draw at Bolton in the Barclays U21 Premier League this evening.
The 20-year-old striker, who was named in Roy Hodgson’s England Under-21 squad for last week’s friendly with Scotland, struck either side of the interval after Chris Lester gave the hosts an early lead.
But Cian Bolger hit a late equaliser to earn the hosts a point at the Lancashire FA’s headquarters.
The youngsters will be hoping to continue their good start to the season when they host Manchester United at The Hawthorns on Friday afternoon (ko 2pm).
"It would have been nice to have won the game but it's not all about results - it's about development," said senior professional development coach David Oldfield.
"There were some good performances from our players, especially in the second half.
"It's good to be undefeated after two games.
"We have Manchester United on Friday which will be another strong test.
"It will be good for the boys to play at The Hawthorns and we will be properly prepared for the game."
ALBION: Rose; Francis, Gayle, D Daniels, Atkinson; Birch, O'Sullivan (Hayes 66), Roofe; Ferrier (Garmston 62), A Jones, Berahino. Subs not used: Palmer (gk); C Jones, S Nabi.
GOALS: BOLTON - Lester (23), Bolger (87). ALBION - Berahino (40 & 76).
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Great to see Saido notch another two goals. It can't be long before he is given his head in the first team - he has certainly earned it.
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Do people thing Saido will go out on loan or get a chance?
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with our lack of pace in the team I was disappointed he didn't get a run out on Saturday. id certainly give him a bit of game time to see how he copes. if he looks a bit out of his depth then send him out on loan.
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Has anyone got the west brom team for u21 gamee against United?
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Just got it off a tweet
Rose; Francis, D Daniels, Gayle, Atkison; Birch, Hayes; Roofe; Ferrier, A Jones, Garmston.
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Cheers mate, just found it, couple mins ago,
Week team isnt it Phil?
United team are strong
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Yeah, very weak, maybe thinking of the cup game in the week and a couple probably traveled upto Everton just in case.
1-0 United - Nick Powell
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Thats what i like to hear here lol ;D
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http://www.viponlinesports.eu/football/170371/1/west-bromwich-albion-u21-vs-manchester-united-u21-live-stream-online.html
Here's a link if anyone wants to watch the game :)
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Live on MUTV too if you can get that.We are a goal down.
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We are completely outclassed tbh *shock*
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2-0 United - Henriquez
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One of the most inept performances I've ever seen. Oh dear oh dear.
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Just wondered why we had a l/b playing on the r/h side of midfield (Garmston?)
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It finished 4-0 very disappointing with the result. Who have we got in the next under 21 match?
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Under 21's away at Stoke today, kick off 2pm. Lee Camp likely to play.
Squad: Birch, Camp, Ferrier, Garmston, Gayle, Greenidge, Hayes, A Jones, C Jones, S Nabi, O’Neil, O’Sullivan, Roofe, Rose, Ward, Wedderburn.
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Lost 5-1. Tough start for Camp
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Lost 5-1.
And there are players who played who some would be happy to see play for us in the Prem!
I don't know if it counts in this thread, but the U14s were beaten 1-0 by Bala Town in a friendly yesterday!
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And there are players who played who some would be happy to see play for us in the Prem!
I don't know if it counts in this thread, but the U14s were beaten 1-0 by Bala Town in a friendly yesterday!
Strange comment mate, without knowing too much about how the game unfolded, even in the most one-sided game one or two players can put in decent performances. No one is suggesting we transpose the u-21 side into a Premier League game.
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Pretty inexperienced team at under 21 level with 'seniors' like Scott Allan, Thorne, Berahino, Adil Nabi missing for differing reasons and Sawyers gone from last year. We seem to like putting younger players in to stretch them (different to the 1st team) rather than stiffen the side up with a couple of fringe 1st teamers, so the odd result like this is on the cards.
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/gera-set-for-comeback-in-u21s-1048655.aspx
ZOLTAN Gera is set to make his long-awaited comeback in this evening’s Barclays U21 Premier League clash at Arsenal (ko 7pm) – ending a nine-month lay-off after suffering an anterior cruciate ligament injury at QPR in January.
The Hungary international signed a new one-year contract at The Hawthorns last month and hopes to return to first-team action when the Baggies host the Gunners in the Capital One Cup third round in just under a fortnight.
And head coach Steve Clarke admits he can't wait to see Gera wearing the blue-and-white stripes once again.
"Zoltan has been training with the group for two or three weeks and he's been made available to travel with the Under-21s," said Clarke.
"It should be a good game and a good stadium for him to play in.
"I would imagine Zoltan will only play 45 minutes.
"It’ll just be nice to see him back on the pitch and playing competitive football."
Professional development coach, David Oldfield, has named a 16-man squad for the trip to the Emirates Stadium - with Gera named as an overage player.
ALBION (from): Atkinson, Birch, Ferrier, Francis, Garmston, Gayle, Gera, Hayes, A Jones, C Jones, S Nabi, O’Neil, O’Sullivan, Palmer (gk), Roofe, Rose (gk).
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Fantastic news, is he playing? Very inexperienced the rest of it though... Surprised with having such a large squad now that one or two more seniors haven't travelled.
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Fantastic news, is he playing? Very inexperienced the rest of it though... Surprised with having such a large squad now that one or two more seniors haven't travelled.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial 41m
Albion U21 team v @Arsenal: Rose; Atkinson, Garmston, O’Neil, Gayle, C Jones, Roofe, Birch, Ferrier, Gera, O’Sullivan.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial 41m
Albion U21 subs v @Arsenal: Palmer (gk); A Jones, Francis, Hayes, S Nabi.
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Gera played an hour, which Clarke said was the plan beforehand. All of sudden we are looking very strong in the wide areas. Tactically Gera is outstanding - and I think if we can get 20 games out of him this season. That will be great.
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We lost 1-0.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/gera-returns-to-action-1049522.aspx
Baggies suffer narrow defeat at the Emirates
ZOLTAN Gera got an hour under his belt on his return from injury as Albion were defeated 1-0 by Arsenal in the Barclays U21 Premier League at the Emirates Stadium.
The Hungary international made his first appearance in over nine months after suffering an anterior cruciate ligament injury at QPR in January.
The Baggies youngsters were edged out by a solitary Serge Gnabry strike – with Emmanuel Frimpong and Ryo Miyaichi also in the Gunners’ starting XI.
More to follow.
ALBION: Rose; Atkinson, Garmston (Francis 27), O’Neil, Gayle, C Jones, Roofe, Birch, Ferrier (Hayes 78), Gera (A Jones 60), O’Sullivan. Subs not used: Palmer (gk); S Nabi.
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/gera-returns-to-action-1049522.aspx
Baggies suffer narrow defeat at the Emirates
ZOLTAN Gera got an hour under his belt on his return from injury as Albion were defeated 1-0 by Arsenal in the Barclays U21 Premier League at the Emirates Stadium.
The Hungary international made his first appearance in over nine months after suffering an anterior cruciate ligament injury at QPR in January.
The Baggies youngsters were edged out by a solitary Serge Gnabry strike – with Emmanuel Frimpong and Ryo Miyaichi also in the Gunners’ starting XI.
Professional development coach David Oldfield believes Albion were unlucky not to come away from North London with at least a point.
"It was a better performance tonight," said Oldfield.
"I was a little disappointed by the manner of the goal we conceded.
"But we created some good opportunities and had a goal disallowed for offside which should have stood.
"We played better than we have in recent games and the players deserved something from it."
Oldfield admits it was fantastic to have a player of Gera's experience in his young squad.
"It was a big positive to have Zoltan Gera playing," added Oldfield.
"He did well during the hour he played.
"His passing was great and he linked us all together and really helped the young lads.
"It's great for the development of the players to have someone of his quality playing for us."
ALBION: Rose; Atkinson, Garmston (Francis 27), O’Neil, Gayle, C Jones, Roofe, Birch, Ferrier (Hayes 78), Gera (A Jones 60), O’Sullivan. Subs not used: Palmer (gk); S Nabi.
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Lost 4-3 against Newcastle. Sounds like a great game.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
FT: Albion U21 3 (A Jones 13, O'Sullivan 14, Ferrier 41) @NUFCOfficial U21 4 (Gael Bigirimana 8, Vuckic 25 & 75, Armstrong 82)
George Thorne continued his come back from injury.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
U21 team v Newcastle @ Hawthorns (ko 2pm): Rose, Francis, Garmston, O'Neil, Gayle, Atkinson, Roofe, Thorne, A Jones, O'Sullivan, Ferrier
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial
U21 subs v Newcastle @ Hawthorns (ko 2pm): Birch, Palmer, C Jones, S Nabi, Campbell
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Did Thorne play 90min?
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Did Thorne play 90min?
Yes mate.
George Thorne ?@GeorgeThorne15 39m
Pleased to complete 90 minutes today #WBA
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Yep it was a good match earlier today, I've got a couple of days off and didn't realise this match was on at The Hawthorns today until it came up on the Official site at lunchtime, but having a bit of free time (for once) I thought I'd go and have a gander.
To be honest, George Thorne was the only player I was really familiar with, and while he is clearly and understandably still getting back to full fitness, I thought he played well with some nice touches and a good run on goal, plus a couple of long range efforts.
As the official site said, it was a young Albion side, but they gave it a good go and the match could have gone either way, though Newcastle were a bit sharper in attack but there were some good goals though the other Albion players looked some way off knocking on the first team door, which is totally understandable as they were clearly a young team.
I noticed Joe Kinnear walking up Halfords Lane with some other bloke in a suit and it looked like Peter Beardsley was their coach.
What was a surprise was a small number of Newcastle fans at the match, all in their replica shirts, and chatting to one of them at half time, he told me they'd come down in a mini bus to take in the Reserves and then were heading up to Everton and then home, so fair play to them, that really is dedication?!
Good match though.
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Great to see Thorne's back in action. A couple more U21 games and it wouldn't surprise me if he went out on loan for a month to get some games.
The results at this level aren't important. Everyone wants to see us do well but its about player development.
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Agreed, obviously Berahino has stepped up now and Adil Nabi who is one of the most likely of the rest to come through, is out for the season. Looks like today's strike force picked up a goal each - not familiar with them, how did they look ?
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I thought Thorne did very well today, looked fit & stong, he went on two long runs with a good shot on goal in the last five minutes, quite a few scouts there today, maybe looking at Thorne & Vuckic (Newcastle's star player)
Garmston did well but got injured halway through the secont half, also Alex Jones showed major improvement from the last time i saw him play, We just deserved a 3-2 lead at half time but Newcastle finished stronger, a couple of our players struggled to get through the game.
Our defence was poor, no cover & too deep.
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Beat Reading in another high scoring game.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial 43m
FT. Reading U21 3 (Taylor 2, Ugwu) Albion U21 4 (Vydra, Roofe, Ward, A Jones pen)
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/reading-u21-3-albion-u21-4-1101400.aspx
Vydra nets on return from injury
ALBION Under-21s twice came from behind to earn a last-gasp victory in a seven-goal thriller at Reading this afternoon.
Super-sub Joe Ward equalised for the Baggies late on – before Alex Jones fired a stoppage-time penalty to secure David Oldfield’s side a 4-3 triumph at Hogwood Park.
Matej Vydra completed his comeback from a hamstring injury with a first-half goal, with Kemar Roofe also on the scoresheet for Albion.
“We started off very badly and we defended poorly,” said senior professional development coach David Oldfield.
“We were two goals down inside five minutes and we had to show a great deal of character to fight back.
“It’s a great result and the boys showed great courage to get back into the game.
“Matej played for an hour and came through the game quite well.
“George played another 90 minutes and played well.
“He showed the maturity we expect from him and that helped the other guys.”
ALBION: Rose (Palmer); Francis, Garmston, O’Sullivan, Gayle, Atkinson, Roofe, Thorne, A Jones, Vydra (Ward), Ferrier. Subs not used: Birch, Howkins, S Nabi.
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Glad Thorne is getting game time. Time for a loan move and back into the squad in January?
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Highlights of our victory against Reading now available:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEquKwJ2nFs&feature=youtu.be
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-squad-to-host-liverpool-1123891.aspx
ZOLTAN Gera, Graham Dorrans, George Thorne and Matej Vydra have been named in Albion’s squad to face Liverpool at The Hawthorns in the Barclays U21 Premier League this afternoon (ko 2pm).
Admission to Under-21 fixtures played at The Hawthorns this season is £5 adults and £1 concessions. Entry is free for home season ticket holders.
ALBION (from): Atkinson, Birch, D Daniels, L Daniels, Dorrans, Ferrier, Francis, Garmston, Gayle, Gera, A Jones, O’Sullivan, Roofe, Rose, Thorne, Vydra.
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I'd expect all of these to start or at least get some game time with the Andield trip looming. Shame Sinclair isn't ready yet.
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Currently 1-1.
Vydra has just equalised.
The team is:
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial 27m
Albion U21 team v Liverpool: L Daniels; Gayle, Garmston, Dorrans, D Daniels, Atkinson, Roofe, Thorne (c), Vydra, Gera, Ferrier.
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It's on lfctv now if you wanna watch. Vydra just hit post.
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2-1 Thorne
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3-1 Roofe
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Zoltan Gera has been substituted after 30 minutes.
Hopefully nothing serious.
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George Thorne has also been substituted just before half time.
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Zoltan Gera has been substituted after 30 minutes.
Hopefully nothing serious.
That doesn't sound good :(
Missed the first 50. Just tuned in now, currently 3-2 up.
Was hoping to see more of Gera.
Those who are watching, how have the members of the first squad done, particularly Vyrdra and Dorrans?? Showed the extra experience they have?
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4-2
Roofe Penalty.
Good play from Vydra to earn the pen.
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George Thorne stated on Twitter that he came off as a precaution.
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The highlights are now available on the official youtube channel. commentary from LFCTV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UPSGLVxBOU
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21-4-liverpool-u21-2-1124474.aspx
Baggies come out on top in six-goal thriller
THE Roofe was on fire at The Hawthorns this afternoon as Albion secured a 4-2 victory over Liverpool in the Barclays U21 Premier League.
Kemar Roofe fired a brace, with Matej Vydra and George Thorne also on the scoresheet, as David Oldfield’s side came from a goal behind to claim all three points.
With the Baggies’ last two games finishing 4-3 and Liverpool beating Spurs 5-0 in their previous outing, visitors to the Hawthorns could be forgiven for expecting another goal-fest.
Zoltan Gera had the first shot on target in the fourth minute - but was unable to direct a tame left-foot strike to the right of Dan Ward in the Reds goal.
Joao Teixeira gave the visitors a tenth-minute lead when his right-foot shot was spilled by Luke Daniels.
But the Baggies were level within four minutes.
Matej Vydra showed express pace to get on the end of George Thorne’s throughball before rounding Ward and slotting home.
The 21-year-old came close to making it two moments later – but saw his powerful right-foot effort crash against the upright from Gera’s defence-splitting pass.
Thorne gave Albion the lead on 19 when his right-foot strike flew into the net from 20 yards.
Roofe added his name to the scoresheet six minutes later as a rampant Albion side continued to pile pressure on the visitors.
Vydra was again involved as his goalbound shot deflected off Lloyd Jones and into the path of Roofe who curled the ball inside the right-hand post from 12 yards.
The Reds pulled one back six minutes before the interval when Rafael Paez got the final touch on Adam Morgan’s free-kick.
Graham Dorrans nearly restored Albion’s two-goal advantage moments later – but his deflected left-foot effort was gathered by Ward.
Luke Daniels was called into action again on the stroke of half-time and did well to gather Jordan Ibe’s right-foot shot from the edge of the area.
The second half began with the same relentless counter-attacking football with which the first ended.
Albion continued to press and came close to extending their lead when Alex Jones’ strike whistled past the left-hand post from the edge of the area.
But, not to be outdone by the hosts, Liverpool were soon on the break and Luke Daniels had to be at his best to parry Lloyd Jones’ bullet header from Brannagan’s corner.
Daniels was on hand again three minutes later to turn Morgan’s 25-yard free-kick over the bar.
Roofe caused confusion in the Liverpool ranks just after the hour mark when his free-kick evaded Ward and was nearly turned into his own net by Jones – with Cameron Gayle waiting.
Luke Daniels provided another important save four minutes later.
The 25-year-old stopper got down low to block Brannagan from Ibe’s cross.
Alex Jones should have netted Albion’s fourth on 75 – but drove his left-foot shot straight into the arms of Ward from Dorrans’ cross.
The visitors could have equalised seconds later but Brannagan, who was a constant threat throughout the encounter, sent a header wide of the right-hand post from Ryan McLaughlin’s lofted ball in.
The Hawthorns breathed a sigh of relief as the Baggies restored their two-goal advantage five minutes from time.
Vydra was brought down by Paez inside the area and Roofe remained calm to cap an already-excellent performance with a second goal.
ALBION (4-2-3-1): L Daniels; Gayle, D Daniels (Francis 90+1), Atkinson, Garmston; Thorne (c) (A Jones 45), Dorrans; Ferrier, Gera (O’Sullivan 30), Roofe; Vydra. Subs not used: Rose (gk); Birch.
LIVERPOOL (4-4-2): Ward; McLaughlin, Paez, L Jones, Smith; Morgan, Teixeira, Roddan (c) (Sama 83), Ibe; Brannagan, Ngoo (Yesil 74). Subs not used: Mersin, Petterson, Lussey.
REFEREE: Rob Ellis (West Midlands)
GOALS: ALBION – Vydra (14), Thorne (19), Roofe (24 & 85 pen) LIVERPOOL – Teixeira (10), Paez (39)
BOOKINGS: ALBION - None. LIVERPOOL - Smith (61), Jones (78)
ALBION STARMAN: Kemar Roofe
ATTENDANCE: 348
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Whenever i see the under 21 highlights Kemar Roofe seems to stand out , i know he got an extended contract during the Summer so the club must think something of him. Roofe has turned 20 now so like Saido you hope he may push on a bit , I'd like to see him get another loan spell soon.
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Whenever i see the under 21 highlights Kemar Roofe seems to stand out , i know he got an extended contract during the Summer so the club must think something of him. Roofe has turned 20 now so like Saido you hope he may push on a bit , I'd like to see him get another loan spell soon.
What position does he favour mate, haven't had much time to watch the under 21's to be honest?
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What position does he favour mate, haven't had much time to watch the under 21's to be honest?
Left wing/midfield with a want to cut in and shoot.
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Left wing/midfield with a want to cut in and shoot.
That's right , he actually reminds me of a young Jerome Thomas.
Like Saido before him i don't think Roofe can get much more out of Under 21 football so I'm hoping a loan will arrive soon.
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we seem to be scoring goals for fun at this level.
defence needs some work obviously...
and indication to who will make the cut and who will not perhaps?
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Vydra looks sharp, looking forward to seeing more from him in the coming weeks.
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we seem to be scoring goals for fun at this level.
defence needs some work obviously...
and indication to who will make the cut and who will not perhaps?
Defensively not so much, we have tended to move players around all over the place to get them used to being in different areas of the pitch ( we've moved Gayle who's a RB to CB to give Francis a game before, and Alex jones is a midfielder yet tended to be the striker before Vydra) so there's not really a fixed partnership, and as we know a good partnership can be essential. Add that the full backs play the modern game (and as such are very offensive playing) they tend to leave space for attackers to plunder, Garmston especially likes a bit of swashbuckling. But, as with Jones, leaving massive holes is eventually learned out of their games through experience.
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George Thorne has been named in Albion’s squad for tonight’s trip to Sunderland in the Barclays U21 Premier League – as he continues his rehabilitation from a knee injury (ko 7pm).
ALBION (from): Atkinson, Barrow, Birch, D Daniels, Donnellan, Francis, Garmston, Gayle, A Jones, C Jones, O’Neil, O’Sullivan, Palmer, Rose, Thomas, Thorne.
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Baggies overcome high-flying Black Cats
MANI O’Sullivan fired a brace as Albion extended their winning streak to three Barclays U21 Premier League games with a 2-1 victory at Sunderland this evening.
O’Sullivan (pictured) netted either side of a Liam Agnew spot-kick as the Baggies recorded their fourth league victory of the campaign.
"The lads played really well," said senior professional development coach, David Oldfield.
"It was a strong team performance and an excellent result.
"They had to dig deep against what is a good Sunderland team.
"Sunderland have been in impressive form and the boys had to give their all to win the game.
"I was impressed by the players tonight."
ALBION: Rose; Gayle, Garmston, Atkinson, D Daniels (c), C Jones, Barrow, Thorne, A Jones, O’Sullivan, Francis. Subs: Palmer (gk); O’Neil, Birch, Thomas, Donnellan.
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/sunderland-u21-1-albion-u21-2-1155493.aspx?#Mjqjd2LEm5CXRYcj.99
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No Gera or Roofe tonight , wonder if the youngster is off out on loan soon?
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Footage from the victory against Sunderland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLETaJqDwds
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Footage from the victory against Sunderland
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLETaJqDwds
Cheers - nicely taken 2nd goal
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/u21s-forest-cup-tie-tonight-1176014.aspx
ALBION’S Under-21 Premier League Cup third-round home tie against Nottingham Forest takes place at The Hawthorns tonight (Monday - ko 7pm).
As one of the Category One academies in the Elite Player Performance Plan (EPPP), the Baggies enter the competition in the round of 32.
Admission to tonight's game has been reduced to £3 adults and £1 concessions - and season ticket holders and members must also pay.
ALBION (from): Atkinson, Birch, D Daniels, Francis, Garmston, Gayle, Hallahan, A Jones, C Jones, O’Neil, O’Sullivan, Palmer, Roofe, Rose, Sweeney, Thomas.
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Gone into extra time
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial 1m
FULL-TIME: Albion U21 1 (Birch 90) Forest U21 1 (Rees 25) - 30 MINS EXTRA-TIME TO BE PLAYED
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Won 2-1.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial 10s
FULL-TIME (AET): Albion U21 2 (Birch 90, Roofe 98) Forest U21 1 (Rees 25)
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Good, always nice to see the youth doing well.
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Won 2-1.
WBAFCofficial ?@WBAFCofficial 10s
FULL-TIME (AET): Albion U21 2 (Birch 90, Roofe 98) Forest U21 1 (Rees 25)
Cheers for info Liam much appreciated.
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Great to see Kemar Roofe on the score sheet again. Very promising talent. Hope he makes it if only for the song potential! The Roofe, the Roofe, the Roofe is on fire!
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Youssouf Mulumbu was also watching in the stands. Nice to see him cheering the young lads on.
Interestingly, Jonathan Greening is now a coach for the Forest under 21s.
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Roofe snatches victory in U21 BPL Cup
KEMAR Roofe’s extra-time winner against Nottingham Forest sent Albion through to the fourth-round of the Under-21 Barclays Premier League Cup.
The Baggies looked to be heading out of the competition at the first hurdle to Joshua Rees’ 25th-minute strike.
But super-sub Aaron Birch rescued the hosts with a 90th-minute equaliser to extend the Hawthorns tie.
And Roofe completed the comeback eight minutes later with a sweet finish worthy of winning an otherwise scrappy encounter before Jack Rose pulled off a fine last-gasp save from Rees in the dying seconds.
Forest were first to threaten in the 16th minute when Derrick Otim pipped Rose to Dan Pritchard’s left-wing cross and saw his header cannon back of the crossbar.
Albion replied four minutes later when Cameron Gayle slid an inch-perfect pass in behind the visitors’ defence for Roofe, who was unfortunate to see his low drive hit the foot of the near post.
Roofe then combined well with Alex Jones on 23 but saw Forest goalkeeper Dimitar Evtimov block bravely at his feet before he could get a shot away.
The Baggies shot themselves in the foot two minutes later when Atkinson was caught in possession by Rees on the edge of his own box – and the Nottingham midfielder coolly slotted the ball home low to Rose’s left.
Mani O’Sullivan showed good skill to beat Jake Wholey on the right by-line on 33 and pick out Alex Jones in the centre – but the Albion striker’s first touch was too heavy and he allowed Rees to clear the danger.
Two minutes before the break Alex Jones spun his marker and was unlucky to see his 20-yard shot deflect off Pritchard and just wide of goal.
From the two resultant Roofe corners Gayle and Donervorn Daniels both missed good chances.
Albion started the second half brightly and should have levelled on 52 when Alex Jones raced onto O’Sullivan’s flick-on and nut-megged Ben Osborn – but fired well over from 15 yards.
Otim teed up Jordan Davies on the hour-mark and Rose did well to dive low to his right and turn his deflected 20-yard strike around the post.
Alex Jones was in the action again in the 69th minute when Roofe nodded down O’Sullivan’s cross in the box and he swivelled 12 yards out, only to see his shot fly just over.
The Baggies left it late but in the 90th minute Bradley Garmston did well to make room on the left and drill in a low cross that substitute Birch converted.
Moments later Alex Jones played Garmston in behind the Forest backline – but he lost his cool and sliced a horrible effort wide of goal from 15 yards, with Roofe crying for the ball in the centre.
The chance to snatch a last-gasp winner was gone and the tie entered extra-time.
Rose had to be alert two minutes after the restart as he swooped low to his right to beat out substitute Wilfried Gnahore’s 20-yard drive.
Birch was in the action again on 98 as he played a neat one-two on the edge of the box with Roofe, who struck a sweet left-foot shot low across Evtimov and just inside the far post to grab the lead.
Josh Thomas could have wrapped up the tie on 111 but saw Evtimov pull off a superb point-blank save after Alex Jones had set up the Baggies sub.
Two minutes from time Roofe burst clean through and should have bagged his second of the night.
With just Emtimov to beat, he dinked his effort wide of goal.
Fortunately his solitary strike of the game was enough to send the Baggies through to the last 16.
But not before David Oldfield’s men survived a late scare in stoppage time when Rose just managed to tip Rees’ header from Gnahore’s cross onto the crossbar.
ALBION (4-2-3-1): Rose; Gayle, D Daniels, C Jones, Garmston; O’Neil (Birch 79), Atkinson; Francis (Sweeney 79), O’Sullivan (Thomas 86), Roofe; A Jones. Subs not used: Palmer (gk), Hallahan.
FOREST (4-4-2): Evtimov; Pritchard (Gorman 102), Worrall, Karo, Wholey; Grant, Rees, Wallace, Osborn; Otim (Gnahore 86), J Davies (M Davies 75). Subs not used: Smith (gk), Kamaneno.
GOALS: ALBION – Birch (90), Roofe (98); FOREST – Rees (25).
BOOKINGS: FOREST – Wallace (foul 34), Gnahore (simulation 112).
REFEREE: N Radford.
ATTENDANCE: 190.
ALBION STARMAN: Alex Jones.
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/u21-forest-cup-1182584.aspx#GukPCVwwpA0quTWf.99
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21s-squad-to-host-southampton-1204181.aspx
ALBION have named a 16-man squad for this afternoon’s behind-closed-doors Barclays U21 Premier League clash with Southampton (ko 1pm).
The Baggies have won their last six games in all competitions.
ALBION (from): Atkinson, Barrow, Birch, Donnellan, Francis, Greenidge, Hallahan, A Jones, C Jones, O'Neil, S Nabi, Oldnall, O'Sullivan, Palmer, Rose, Ward.
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Albion lost 3-1 to Southampton today
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21-1-southampton-u21-3-1205184.aspx
ALBION suffered their first defeat since September as Southampton recorded a 3-1 Barclays U21 Premier League victory at the club’s training ground this afternoon.
The Baggies led through an early Aaron Birch wonder strike - but a Sam Gallagher brace, followed by a penalty from Scott Sinclair’s brother Jake, secured all three points for the visitors.
Scott was joined by his parents on the sidelines as birthday-boy Jake helped the Saints earn their first win in three matches.
19-year-old Sinclair had the first opportunity of the game – but saw his seventh-minute strike tipped over the bar by Jack Rose.
Birch put Albion ahead ten minutes later.
The 18-year-old midfielder carried the ball towards goal before powering a right-foot thunderbolt into the top corner from 25 yards.
The visitors were level on 27 courtesy of a tidy Gallagher finish.
The big centre-forward smashed the ball home from close range after Ryan Seager provided an inch-perfect low cross.
Mani O’Sullivan’s 25-yard free-kick was comfortably gathered by Cody Cropper on 33 and the two sides went into the interval on a level pegging.
David Oldfield’s team began the second-half brightly and could have gone ahead in the 54th minute.
Wes Atkinson’s powerful cross from the left wing struck Birch in the six-yard box and floated just over the bar.
Rose was on hand to keep it 1-1 two minutes later as he palmed a Sinclair drive wide of the left-hand post from just outside the D.
The young keeper was called into action again on 62.
But Andy Robinson’s weak long-range strike failed to cause Rose too many problems.
The Saints continued to press and Rose could only parry Harry Reed’s effort moments later.
Southampton took a 73rd-minute lead as Gallagher netted his second.
The striker outleaped Albion’s defence to head Sinclair’s corner inside the left-hand post.
Both sides continued to try their luck from distance in blustery conditions.
But Rose was up to the challenge and again parried when Robinson rifled another long-distance strike at goal on 78.
Sinclair rounded off a fine performance with a goal nine minutes from time.
The winger converted from the penalty spot after Shaun Donnellan was judged to have brought down Robinson.
ALBION: Rose; Francis, O’Neil, C Jones (Donnellan 59), Atkinson; Birch, O’Sullivan; Ward (Barrow 78), S Nabi (Oldnall 79), Hallahan; A Jones. Subs not used: Palmer (gk); Greenidge.
SOUTHAMPTON: Cropper; Young, Stephens, Turnbull, Targett; Reed (Flannigan 90); Sinclair, Seager (Johns 88), Robinson, Rowe; Gallagher. Subs not used: Moore, Colmer, McCarthy.
GOALS: ALBION – Birch (17); SOUTHAMPTON – Gallagher (27, 73), Sinclair pen (81).
BOOKINGS: ALBION – O'Neil (foul 90+2); SOUTHAMPTON - Rowe (foul 45).
REFEREE: Guy Stretton (Leicestershire).
ALBION STARMAN: Aaron Birch.
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Just in case anyone's interested, or doesn't fancy watching Man U turn over Villa.
The U21's are at home to Man City at The Hawthorns later today with a 2pm KO.
Myself and my lad are off to join the other "anoraks" ;) a bit later.
Appreciate these games are never going to attract large numbers, but always pleasant to watch an Albion match where the result is of secondary importance.
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Ben Foster completed 45 minutes today.
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ALBION started 2014 in style in the Barclays Under-21 Premier League with a convincing 3-0 win at West Ham.
The Baggies went into the game on the back of three successive defeats in league and cup but were soon ahead at the Rush Green Stadium thanks to Cameron Gayle’s deflected 21st-minute opener.
The visitors, who were tonight overseen by Lead Professional Development Coach James Shan, doubled their lead five minutes into the second half thanks to Paul McCallum’s own goal.
And Aaron Birch sealed the points with a third strike in the 66th minute.
WEST HAM: Spiegel, Driver, Fanimo, Whitehead, Burke, McCallum, Turgott (Shaw 59), Moncur, Lee, Gordon (Maguire 78), Vaz Te (Lletget 31). Subs not used: Baxter, Nasha.
ALBION: Rose, Gayle, Atkinson, Thorne, D Daniels, O’Neil, Francis (Orenuga 61), Birch, A Jones, O’Sullivan (Ward 70), Wedderburn (Wright 75). Subs not used: Palmer (gk), C Jones.
GOALS: ALBION – Gayle (21), McCallum (og 50), Birch (66).
BOOKINGS: - WEST HAM – Driver (foul 68), McCallum (foul 77).
REFEREE: C Fitch.
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/west-ham-u21-0-albion-u21-3-1287105.aspx#9l0PdXwiGcqHOKPx.99
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ALBION started 2014 in style in the Barclays Under-21 Premier League with a convincing 3-0 win at West Ham.
The Baggies went into the game on the back of three successive defeats in league and cup but were soon ahead at the Rush Green Stadium thanks to Cameron Gayle’s deflected 21st-minute opener.
The visitors, who were tonight overseen by Lead Professional Development Coach James Shan, doubled their lead five minutes into the second half thanks to Paul McCallum’s own goal.
And Aaron Birch sealed the points with a third strike in the 66th minute.
WEST HAM: Spiegel, Driver, Fanimo, Whitehead, Burke, McCallum, Turgott (Shaw 59), Moncur, Lee, Gordon (Maguire 78), Vaz Te (Lletget 31). Subs not used: Baxter, Nasha.
ALBION: Rose, Gayle, Atkinson, Thorne, D Daniels, O’Neil, Francis (Orenuga 61), Birch, A Jones, O’Sullivan (Ward 70), Wedderburn (Wright 75). Subs not used: Palmer (gk), C Jones.
GOALS: ALBION – Gayle (21), McCallum (og 50), Birch (66).
BOOKINGS: - WEST HAM – Driver (foul 68), McCallum (foul 77).
REFEREE: C Fitch.
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/west-ham-u21-0-albion-u21-3-1287105.aspx#9l0PdXwiGcqHOKPx.99
The lad Orenuga (Femi?) is he a triallist ? Ex Everton
Anyone know?
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Big Sam played a lot of the West Ham lads at Forest :o :o
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Lost in the FA Youth Cup last night to Huddersfield 4-2 after extra time.
Disappointing.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/fayc-albion-2-huddersfield-4-aet-1294891.aspx? (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/fayc-albion-2-huddersfield-4-aet-1294891.aspx?)
ALBION bowed out of the FA Youth Cup at the fourth round stage after a dramatic 4-2 extra-time defeat by Huddersfield at The Hawthorns.
Watched on by new head coach, Pepe Mel, the Baggies sent the game to extra-time when Joe Ward fired a late equaliser.
But the visitors silenced a resilient Baggies effort with three goals in the additional 30 minutes – with Phillip Billing’s own-goal proving nothing more than a consolation for the hosts.
Albion began the brighter of the two sides and should have been ahead inside four minutes.
Andre Wright found space on the right and sent a dangerous ball into the penalty area – but Ged Oldnall fired just over from close range.
The visitors had their first shot on target on 11.
Defender Bradley Carroll struck just wide of the left upright from 20 yards.
Huddersfield might have considered themselves unlucky not to be in front three minutes later when Danny Kane headed a whisker wide of Alex Palmer's right-hand post from Jake Charles' corner.
The Baggies continued to dominate possession at The Hawthorns but failed to create another first-half opportunity as heavy rain made playing conditions difficult.
The visitors created the first chance of the second half but Palmer comfortably saved Florent Bojaj's powerful 20-yard effort.
The Terriers were ahead on 57.
Ben Atkinson followed up Charles’ parried shot and lobbed Palmer from the edge of the area to give Town the lead.
Huddersfield should have doubled their advantage ten minutes later when Bojaj headed the wrong side of the right-hand post from Boyle’s ball into the box.
Albion fought hard for an equaliser and Ward came close on 72.
The attacking-midfielder sent a well-struck effort a foot over the bar from 20 yards.
Right-back Bradley Sweeney came closer still two minutes later – but his long-range strike whistled just past the left post after bouncing in front of Town stopper Sam Guthrie.
Guthrie provided another top save to deny George Cleet’s half-volley moments later and it looked as though it would not be Albion’s night.
As Saido Berahino watched from the stands at The Hawthorns, Ward provided a finish the first team’s topscorer would surely be proud of to level the scores.
The youngster rifled home a 25-yard strike to give the Baggies a deserved equaliser.
The visitors had one final chance to settle things in the last minute of normal time.
But Palmer came to Albion’s rescue as he raced off his line to block Charles from close range – sending the game to extra-time in the process.
Samir Nabi had the first shot of extra-time – but his tame left-foot shot flew high into the Birmingham Road End.
Huddersfield again took the lead only four minutes into extra-time.
Charles took advantage of some tired defending and fired under Palmer from six yards.
After 102 minutes of play Town finally gave themselves breathing space.
Bradley Carroll sent a curling right-foot shot inside the far post from the left corner of the penalty area to all-but seal a place in the competition's fifth round.
But there was yet more drama at The Hawthorns.
Phillip Billing headed into his own net from Joe Ward’s corner to give the Baggies hope.
Albion continued to pile on the pressure in the dying moments of extra-time but a second equaliser proved elusive.
Regan Booty put the game beyond doubt when he blasted past Palmer in the final minute of extra-time.
ALBION (4-4-1-1): Palmer; Sweeney, C Jones, Howkins, Smart; Wedderburn (Donnellan 74), S Nabi, Cleet (Pace 94), Wright; Ward; Oldnall (Hallahan 60). Subs not used: Buchanan, Ross.
HUDDERSFIELD: Guthrie, Carroll, Kane, Atkinson (Booty 91), Wilkinson, Boyle, Holmes, Billing, Bojaj (Pyke 112), Charles, Goddard. Subs: Hallwood, Pells, Boyle.
GOALS: ALBION – Ward (85), Billing og (105). Huddersfield – Atkinson (57), Charles (94), Carroll (102), Booty (120).
BOOKINGS: ALBION – Ward (foul 66). HUDDERSFIELD – Boyle (foul 111), Wilkinson (foul 120).
REFEREE: Michael D’Aguilar (Staffordshire).
ATTENDANCE: 274.
ALBION STARMAN: Joe Ward.
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I like to keep my eye on the academy and read threads like this etc. but I don't recognise too many of those names so I'd guess that they were quite a young U21 team. That's just a feeling, it might be that I've lost touch with the current crop of youngsters though.
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I like to keep my eye on the academy and read threads like this etc. but I don't recognise too many of those names so I'd guess that they were quite a young U21 team. That's just a feeling, it might be that I've lost touch with the current crop of youngsters though.
It was an FA youth cup game, think it is an under 18's competition.
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The FA youth cup is a good guide to which clubs have the best youth players and those who may rise up through the ranks. Man Utd, Villa, Southampton and Everton often do well. Thats why I always get frustrated to see we have been knocked out very early. We have been an academy for about a decade now and yet I don't recall us going past the 4th round in the modern era.
If we fail to see any results soon in the youth competitions, we might need to start asking questions if we could be doing more to bring through better young players. Apart from Saido Berahino, we haven't yet brought through a player who is good enough to hold down a spot in a premier league team.
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It was an FA youth cup game, think it is an under 18's competition.
That would explain it! Cheers for that.
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The academy needs an overhaul, they should get someone with a proven track record at a decent academy, you look at the coaches we've had for our academy and none of them really have any grounding in it. Myabe even look abroad to see where we're going wrong and getting the academy playing a decent style.
3m a year is a huge investment, you realistically have to be getting players out the academy regularly, but after Berahino there doesn't appear to be any names cropping up. Particularly concerning is none of them are even getting decent loans, at best to relegation strugglers in league one, so there's not much hope for the current crop.
Doesn't help that we lose our very best of course, and I still think the academy isn't worth the minimum 3m we put into it annually. I guess Berahino looks to be a good find but I imagine our academies run at a huge loss over these 10 years. Only Wood has actually gone on to be sold for more than a nominal fee.
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The FA youth cup is a good guide to which clubs have the best youth players and those who may rise up through the ranks. Man Utd, Villa, Southampton and Everton often do well. Thats why I always get frustrated to see we have been knocked out very early. We have been an academy for about a decade now and yet I don't recall us going past the 4th round in the modern era.
If we fail to see any results soon in the youth competitions, we might need to start asking questions if we could be doing more to bring through better young players. Apart from Saido Berahino, we haven't yet brought through a player who is good enough to hold down a spot in a premier league team.
I'd agree it was a bit of a disappointing result in the Youth Cup, I didn't go last night (and completely forgot it was being played until I read the report on the Official site) but our record in the competition clearly isn't great.
Personally I hope the club continue to invest in the Academy, I know at times it feels as if progress is slow but there is evidence of improvement, going back a few years Chris Wood spent time within the youth structure, just over a year ago George Thorne gave an assured midfield performance at Old Trafford (obviously he's had the setback of the serious injury shortly after that), Berahino's progress is very encouraging, and Izzy Brown was in the first team at 16, prior to his bizarre decision to leave the club that had given him such a great platform of opportunity at such a young age for a club where the chances of him ever making the first team are negligable
So for me, I hope Albion stick with the Academy and continue to support it.
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The academy needs an overhaul, they should get someone with a proven track record at a decent academy, you look at the coaches we've had for our academy and none of them really have any grounding in it. Myabe even look abroad to see where we're going wrong and getting the academy playing a decent style.
3m a year is a huge investment, you realistically have to be getting players out the academy regularly, but after Berahino there doesn't appear to be any names cropping up. Particularly concerning is none of them are even getting decent loans, at best to relegation strugglers in league one, so there's not much hope for the current crop.
Doesn't help that we lose our very best of course, and I still think the academy isn't worth the minimum 3m we put into it annually. I guess Berahino looks to be a good find but I imagine our academies run at a huge loss over these 10 years. Only Wood has actually gone on to be sold for more than a nominal fee.
Well it doesn't help when one or two of the betters ones are plucked by Chelsea / Liverpool. We need a bit of patience at the moment, it was only under Ashworth that we started a full professionally run academy system. It takes time for players to benefit from that system. We also can't really be expecting more than 1 possibly 2 to break through given the standard of the premier league now and the ease of bringing in foreign players in. Berahino could easily have a £15m buyout clause and who knows we may end up getting offered more than that if he progresses well in the next 18 months or so.
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Adil Nabi, Donervan Daniels, Kemar Roofe and Liam o Neil are names that spring to mind along with the couple we lost to LFC and CFC. It's coming of age as a project. Why do people need to be negative?
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On a (slightly) related note, at the time of the Izzy Brown furore, the talk was Albion were taking it to tribunal rather than accept the standard EPPP set fee.
Does anyone know the outcome of that? What fee did it end up as?
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On a (slightly) related note, at the time of the Izzy Brown furore, the talk was Albion were taking it to tribunal rather than accept the standard EPPP set fee.
Does anyone know the outcome of that? What fee did it end up as?
Does seem to have gone quiet on this one.
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On a (slightly) related note, at the time of the Izzy Brown furore, the talk was Albion were taking it to tribunal rather than accept the standard EPPP set fee.
Does anyone know the outcome of that? What fee did it end up as?
Not entirely sure if it has been sorted out yet but there was never going to be a standard EPPP set fee for Izzy as he had agreed a scholarship with Albion when he turned 16. We will still end up getting peanuts for the lad. If the tribunal has happened or the clubs agreed a fee beforhand then I don't think the result has been made public.
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Adil Nabi, Donervan Daniels, Kemar Roofe and Liam O'Neil are names that spring to mind along with the couple we lost to LFC and CFC. It's coming of age as a project. Why do people need to be negative?
It's called asking a fair question Mike. If you perceive asking fair questions of something to be a case of "being negative" then a discussion forum isn't for you. Why shouldn't it be raised? If you don't ask questions, nothing gets improved.
I don't think those four names are going to make our first team really. Donervan Daniels is 20 and has just been released back to us after failing to get much game time at Gillingham at the bottom end of league 1. Keemar Roofe is 21 now and is still playing for a mid table league 2 team while Liam O'Neil turns 21 in the summer and has yet to get a loan move anywhere or near our first team.
If you contrast that with the development of other players, we have signed players at 21 such as Darren Carter, Richard Chaplow and Joe Mattock who have been capable of playing championship football at that age but have never been good enough to reach the top level. For this reason, I would say it is unlikely that Roofe, Daniels and O'Neil will break into our team if we stay in the top flight (that's not to say they can't be late developers elsewhere with hard work). I hope Nabi can come through but his injuries may well curtail his development - he turns 20 next month himself and hasn't even got close to the first team picture yet.
Looking further down the academy levels, there seems to be very little buzz about the players we have available to us, although we have been unfortunate to lose our best players like Brown, Sinclair and Dhanda but beyond those 3 there does not seem to be much left in the academy that looks like it is going to make it into the first team any time soon. That should raise some questions as these players will have spent their entire careers in our academy structure as some would have been 7 or 8 when we got the academy status.
There is still time to wait, but if we don't start to see results soon then the club may need to start analysing what is going wrong and what needs to be improved. At the moment we are producing a number of players capable of playing league 1, league 2 and conference football, but so far only the 1 in 10 years capable of playing premier league football.
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Adil Nabi, Donervan Daniels, Kemar Roofe and Liam o Neil are names that spring to mind along with the couple we lost to LFC and CFC. It's coming of age as a project. Why do people need to be negative?
Gayle and Garmston also possible - Gayle came on sub against Newport in the capital 1.
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Jonathan Leko(England) and Tyler Roberts(Wales) looked decent in the Victory Shield earlier in the season, and when I saw Leko at Hereford in pre-season he was very good. I know it's the youth cup but is that mostly under 18's? I know Leko is the same age as the lad Dhanda that we lost to Liverpool, so perhaps this year came just one too soon for him.
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There is still time to wait, but if we don't start to see results soon then the club may need to start analysing what is going wrong and what needs to be improved. At the moment we are producing a number of players capable of playing league 1, league 2 and conference football, but so far only the 1 in 10 years capable of playing premier league football.
The PL is a very strong league. The fact is that to be an impact player nowadays in the PL you need world class talent and that simply is not something you can teach. You can hone it if it is there but you can't create it if it isn't there to start with. That is the simple reason we lost Sinclair, Dhanda and Brown, they had the talent and the potential.
I think that four or five like that in the system, if you add Berahino, is what you can expect in terms of cutting edge talent at one single club that doesn't outright buy their talent. For a club like us it is a disaster to have our real talent poached for nothing because such talent is so rare and so hard to replace.
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It's called asking a fair question Mike. If you perceive asking fair questions of something to be a case of "being negative" then a discussion forum isn't for you. Why shouldn't it be raised? If you don't ask questions, nothing gets improved.
I don't think those four names are going to make our first team really. Donervan Daniels is 20 and has just been released back to us after failing to get much game time at Gillingham at the bottom end of league 1. Keemar Roofe is 21 now and is still playing for a mid table league 2 team while Liam O'Neil turns 21 in the summer and has yet to get a loan move anywhere or near our first team.
If you contrast that with the development of other players, we have signed players at 21 such as Darren Carter, Richard Chaplow and Joe Mattock who have been capable of playing championship football at that age but have never been good enough to reach the top level. For this reason, I would say it is unlikely that Roofe, Daniels and O'Neil will break into our team if we stay in the top flight (that's not to say they can't be late developers elsewhere with hard work). I hope Nabi can come through but his injuries may well curtail his development - he turns 20 next month himself and hasn't even got close to the first team picture yet.
Looking further down the academy levels, there seems to be very little buzz about the players we have available to us, although we have been unfortunate to lose our best players like Brown, Sinclair and Dhanda but beyond those 3 there does not seem to be much left in the academy that looks like it is going to make it into the first team any time soon. That should raise some questions as these players will have spent their entire careers in our academy structure as some would have been 7 or 8 when we got the academy status.
There is still time to wait, but if we don't start to see results soon then the club may need to start analysing what is going wrong and what needs to be improved. At the moment we are producing a number of players capable of playing league 1, league 2 and conference football, but so far only the 1 in 10 years capable of playing premier league football.
Fair point but I'm just fed up of the general negativity on this site at the moment. At a time when this club is more auccessful than at any time in the last 30+ years I read post after post by fans slating the chairman, the sporting director, 2/3 of the players and by 10pm on Monday probadly the new head coach. Maybe I snapped at the wrong post but seriously people need to realise what we've got here and try to enjoy it.
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The PL is a very strong league. The fact is that to be an impact player nowadays in the PL you need world class talent and that simply is not something you can teach. You can hone it if it is there but you can't create it if it isn't there to start with. That is the simple reason we lost Sinclair, Dhanda and Brown, they had the talent and the potential.
I think that four or five like that in the system, if you add Berahino, is what you can expect in terms of cutting edge talent at one single club that doesn't outright buy their talent. For a club like us it is a disaster to have our real talent poached for nothing because such talent is so rare and so hard to replace.
I agree with bits but not other. I do not think it is correct that you can not teach talent. Are we really saying that Spanish kids and Argentinian kids are just born with the natural talent while English kids just naturally aren't good enough? Or is it something to do with coaching? While a lot of it will come down to the culture of English football and the poor coaching kids during there very early development years, there is still a lot that can be gained by good coaching from the ages of 8 up to 13 or 14. After that I would start to agree that if they don't have it they probably never will, but the majority of "talent" is learned, and not natural (i'm not saying every but is, for instance Ajax coaches who know their stuff have picked out 4 areas they personally see as being the hardest to actually coach into a player who has not got it but you get my drift).
You my have a point on the second paragraph though. Maybe when you are brining through the likes of Brown, Sinclair and Dhanda, that is all you can really expect from an age group in an academy like ours. I do feel some clubs such as Southampton and Villa seem to produce 1 first team player from every age group but I suppose outstanding players are always going to be quite rare and our job is not being made easier by the very negative methods employed by the big clubs that can only be harming the national game of pooling the b est youngsters into structures they will struggle to adapt from and therefore could stagger their development.
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Important to remember that the academies at Southampton and Villa have been fully developed for longer than ours. It will be easier to judge the success of ours in 5 - 10 years time.
We have seen Thorne and Berahino emerge in the past two seasons.
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Under 21's at home to Leicester today 1pm kick off behind closed doors at the training ground, squad is
ALBION (from): Atkinson, Birch, L Daniels, D Daniels, Francis, Gayle, Howkins, A Jones, C Jones, S Nabi, O’Neil, O’Sullivan, Rose, Thorne, Ward, Wright.
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Is Thorne now ready for first team action after his injury problems?
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Is Thorne now ready for first team action after his injury problems?
I think he's been on loan at Watford and playing well.
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Jonathan Leko(England) and Tyler Roberts(Wales) looked decent in the Victory Shield earlier in the season, and when I saw Leko at Hereford in pre-season he was very good. I know it's the youth cup but is that mostly under 18's? I know Leko is the same age as the lad Dhanda that we lost to Liverpool, so perhaps this year came just one too soon for him.
Leko is only 15. Plays mainly for the Under 16's although he has been involved with the Under 18s on a couple of times.
I like the look of Tyler, hes a good striker and can hold the ball up well. Ive been to see the Under 16s play 3 times now and hes scored in every game.
The keeper looks good aswell and is good at catching.
The right back for the Under 16s also looks good, little blonde lad.
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ALBION suffered a 2-1 defeat by Leicester in the Barclays U21 Premier League at the club's training ground this afternoon.
Wes Atkinson (pictured) equalised for the Baggies late in the first half but the visitors fought back to all three points after the interval.
ALBION: L Daniels; Gayle, Atkinson, Thorne, D Daniels, O'Neil, Francis (Wright), Birch, A Jones, O'Sullivan, Ward (S Nabi). Subs not used: Rose (gk); C Jones, Howkins.
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-u21-1-leicester-u21-2-1306108.aspx#AVfelmxA38ZyGMUv.99
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So it sounds as though Roofe, Donervorn Daniels + Wes Atkinson have gone on the training trip to Spain.
I don't know much about Atkinson - is he a fullback ?
I guess it gives Pepe a good chance to have a look at a couple, think its decision time soon as to whether Roofe gets a new deal. Not sure if the same applies to the other two ?
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Just heard the next U21 game against the Wolves has been switched from the Hawthorns to the Ricoh Arena, Coventry, next Monday night 7.00pm KO.
The Ricoh Arena, surely not
why not a local non league club if they want to protect the Hawthorns ?
Is any football played at the Ricoh any more ?
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Just heard the next U21 game against the Wolves has been switched from the Hawthorns to the Ricoh Arena, Coventry, next Monday night 7.00pm KO.
The Ricoh Arena, surely not
why not a local non league club if they want to protect the Hawthorns ?
Is any football played at the Ricoh any more ?
That's kind of the point, Ricoh's cheap and available at short(ish) notice.
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Just heard the next U21 game against the Wolves has been switched from the Hawthorns to the Ricoh Arena, Coventry, next Monday night 7.00pm KO.
The Ricoh Arena, surely not
why not a local non league club if they want to protect the Hawthorns ?
Is any football played at the Ricoh any more ?
Requirement of that league to play a certain number of games in a stadium environment.
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Liam O'Neil?@LiamONeil31·4h
Nice to of been offered a new contract at West Brom
Another one of the younger lads signing up by the looks of it. Not sure what age category he falls into? Same as Berahino possibly?
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Liam O'Neil?@LiamONeil31·4h
Nice to of been offered a new contract at West Brom
Another one of the younger lads signing up by the looks of it. Not sure what age category he falls into? Same as Berahino possibly?
He's in the 20-21 ball park, I also saw on another forum (new606?) that Danny Barrow's been given/offered a one year contract.
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He's in the 20-21 ball park, I also saw on another forum (new606?) that Danny Barrow's been given/offered a one year contract.
http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/en/liam-oneil/leistungsdaten/spieler_141349.html
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Anyone got the teams for tonight yet?
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Lost 1-0.
Pepe, JP, Garlick OUT. :P
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It is good to see that Chris Brunt and Billy Jones are set to make their respective returns from injury in today’s Barclays Under-21 Premier League clash at home to Fulham (ko 2pm). We need a fully fit squad for the so-important Premiership run in.
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-duo-make-u21-return-1471065.aspx#cOzdhLQTGeXXmhZ8.99
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Currently beating Fulham 1 - 0
BJ and Brunt in the team
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We won 2-1 - Roofe and Donervan Daniels
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We won 2-1 - Roofe and Donervan Daniels
2 for the future ??
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2 for the future ??
Could be, as Mel has included both on the bench recently. Think Roofe came back from his loan to prove himself to Pepe as he's soon to be out of contract.....or has it been sorted ?
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Just been flicking through some youth player's tweets and saw that Cameron Gayle has left, was quite surprised and thought he might be in and around breaking into the first team squad, thoughts?
Although I must admit its the first season where I haven't been to see any reserves games. Must make more of an effort next year.
Anyone have a list of u21 players that have been retained/released?
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Just been flicking through some youth player's tweets and saw that Cameron Gayle has left, was quite surprised and thought he might be in and around breaking into the first team squad, thoughts?
Although I must admit its the first season where I haven't been to see any reserves games. Must make more of an effort next year.
Anyone have a list of u21 players that have been retained/released?
I would imagine if Cameron Gayle is not making a big impression at Shrewsbury, he is unlikely to with us, it happens.
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Yes its a pity but probably more than 90% of the players coming through the academy structure will fail to get a first team contract with us, especially if we manage to stay in the prem.
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Yes its a pity but probably more than 90% of the players coming through the academy structure will fail to get a first team contract with us, especially if we manage to stay in the prem.
It's hard not to imagine any other scenario than any young players that are high wuality will end up being poached by bigger clubs either before they even play for our first team or before they become properly established in our side. The system is set up that way and it has to be questionable what point there is bothering with it as things stand, as Peace has previously suggested.
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If at 20/21 a player isn't getting a loan to the championship, or being involved in match day squads they're not going to make it here as long as we're in the premier league.
I imagine Kemar Roofe for the same reason will probably be released if he hasn't already.
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If at 20/21 a player isn't getting a loan to the championship, or being involved in match day squads they're not going to make it here as long as we're in the premier league.
I imagine Kemar Roofe for the same reason will probably be released if he hasn't already.
Berahino went to Brentford?
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Berahino went to Brentford?
He's only 20 now. He went to Brentford when he was 18.
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http://mobile.wba.co.uk/news/article/baggies-to-start-revamped-u21-season-against-wolves-1796355.aspx
U21 games to be played at the Ricoh apart from 3 matches.
What are people's thoughts in this? I am happy because I live a stones throw away from the Ricoh but if I were a local I'd be pretty peeved I imagine.
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Terrible news in honesty. Even harder to get a new generation of fans from the local area now it's been moved.
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http://mobile.wba.co.uk/news/article/baggies-to-start-revamped-u21-season-against-wolves-1796355.aspx
U21 games to be played at the Ricoh apart from 3 matches.
What are people's thoughts in this? I am happy because I live a stones throw away from the Ricoh but if I were a local I'd be pretty peeved I imagine.
Isn't this move due to the terrible wear we saw on the pitch at the Hawthorns this winter?
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The structure of the league seems far more impressive though. Hopefully it will make the under 21 league a decent competition.
Look forward to watching some of this but I imagine most of the sky games will be from the top division.
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SISU won't be happy about this. They were hoping Ricoh would file for administration and then be able to buy a share of the stadium. This deal with us gives the Ricoh a bit of cash in the tin.
http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/47486-west-brom-at-the-ricoh (http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/47486-west-brom-at-the-ricoh)
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http://mobile.wba.co.uk/news/article/baggies-to-start-revamped-u21-season-against-wolves-1796355.aspx
U21 games to be played at the Ricoh apart from 3 matches.
What are people's thoughts in this? I am happy because I live a stones throw away from the Ricoh but if I were a local I'd be pretty peeved I imagine.
It's a difficult one as presumably the wear and tear issues at The Hawthorns and the Training Ground (where they were playing some of these games) is an issue as well as obviously wanting to give the U21's a decent surface to play on.
I went along to a couple of the U21's at The Hawthorns last season and there weren't many there to watch, maybe 200 to 300, and this would include the players friends and families, so I would imagine the impact on supporters is fairly negligible.
Also for those into the Youth Football, there will still be a few U21's at The Hawthorns this coming season and any home FA Youth Cup matches plus, most likely, a few local Birmingham Senior Cup games.
Have to say it's a bizarre situation that Coventry supporters find themselves in, totally shambolic?
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ALBION will tonight kick-off their 2014/15 Barclays Under-21 Premier League season with a Black Country derby clash against Wolves at The Hawthorns (ko 7pm).
Brown Ideye, Gareth McAuley and Jason Davidson have all been named in James Shan's squad.
This is one of three home games that will be played at The Hawthorns, with the remainder taking place at the Ricoh Arena.
Admission is £5 adults and £1 concessions. Entry is free for Albion home season ticket holders.
Read more at http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-host-wolves-at-the-hawthorns-1837194.aspx#pwp48to6yxqr0VOu.99
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Will be going to this tonight, got to make the most of freebies :)
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Rose; Atkinson, McAuley, Howkins, Davidson; Leko, O’Neil, A Nabi, Garmston; Roofe, Ideye
subs: Palmer (GK); Donellan, Pace, Kandi, Barrow
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WBA 1-0 Wolves A Nabi
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Albion U21 1 (A Nabi 30) Wolves U21 1 (Bancessi 49).
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Albion U21 2 (A Nabi 30, Howkins 70) Wolves U21 1 (Bancessi 49)
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Any word on how Brown played?
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A match report is now on OS
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On tonight's display, he looked off the pace , and did not show any flashes of quality that you would expect to see , from a 10 million pound striker.
I would think , its more about his fitness and avoiding injury ,so I would not read to much into tonight's performance .Any word on how Brown played?
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Any word on how Brown played?
Honestly, not too well.
The dingle defenders marshalled him relatively easily.
I thought he was outshone by the youngsters, especially Nabi, Garmston and Leko.
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Was it a decent fan turn out?
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Was it a decent fan turn out?
901
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I didn't go but from I read about Brown on Twitter from those who did, they felt that he looked like a good player (good touch, good awareness, etc) but he was clearly playing within himself a little. As you get a lot in pre season, when players know they are going to do 90 minutes for the first time in a long time they do often just try to do the bare minimum, just so that they don't run themselves into the ground and they get through the game.
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I did not think he looked that good last night, as royhan said the dingle defence had no problems with him. Did not look like a £10m striker. I also thought Nabi,
Garmaston had good games but in my opinion Liam O'neil after giving the ball away in twice in the first few minuits had an excelent game and was head and shoulders the best player on the pitch having said that Rose in goal made 2/3 good saves especially at the end when McAuley fell over.
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Leko, nabi and oneil looked good! That Leko could be an asset if he works on confidence, extremely skilful on the wing. Head went down too often though.
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The first thing that surprised was how slight he was . He kept himself back last night so has not to get injured . Let's hope the real ideye is a lot better .
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will the real Ideye Brown please stand up
Heard Davidson had a good game?
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Sure I heard that Leko is only 15!
Danny Barrow looks like a really good player too
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Sure I heard that Leko is only 15!
Danny Barrow looks like a really good player too
Leko is 16 this year. Plays in the same age category as my friends brother.
Looks a very good talent, and from the under 16s games I watched last season, hes very highly rated amongst coaches who seem to encourage him to go past players and dont seem too upset when he loses the ball.
There are some very good players in the under 16 team.
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Leko is 16 this year. Plays in the same age category as my friends brother.
Looks a very good talent, and from the under 16s games I watched last season, hes very highly rated amongst coaches who seem to encourage him to go past players and dont seem too upset when he loses the ball.
There are some very good players in the under 16 team.
Wow, did not realise he was that young. He was always looking to take on the defenders and get in behind them (something we lack in our first team!). If he can sort out the issues regarding letting his head drop he'll be a hell of a player.
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Leko is 16 this year. Plays in the same age category as my friends brother.
Looks a very good talent, and from the under 16s games I watched last season, hes very highly rated amongst coaches who seem to encourage him to go past players and dont seem too upset when he loses the ball.
There are some very good players in the under 16 team.
That's encouraging to hear, heard good things about that Danny Barbir lad too
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I've always heard good things about Adil Nabi...
Plus on Football Manager, when I loaned him out to Hereford, he scored 27 goals in 39 games... :P
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Danny Barrow looks like a really good player too
From the little that I have seen of him, Danny Barrow looks quality.
Excellent touch, quick feet, cracking movement off the ball and good vision.
Will not criticise him for lack of size or physique, but it may serve him well to look up once in a while.
Having said that, only seen him on Youtube which was provided by a Birmingham City scout.
Other teams, and not just those down the road and currently less fortunate than ourselves, are very aware of him, including the likes of Arsenal.
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I went with my mate who's a wolves fan. Now I know it was a fitness exercise but I really don't see ideye as a main asset as in blistering pace or good in the air. His touch was very poor. Davidson also I can't see being better than poco. Some of the older group need to be moved on I think as they are nowhere near premier league level. The lad who played alongside gmac looks a talent even though his mistake have away the wolves goal. O Neil played well. I thought the young wolves left back looked a decent lad aswel.
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Danny Barrow looks quality great passer and vision, excellent skill and looks to be positive at every chance he gets, I would be surprised if he was here in two years time but i hope so, Looks like the type of player that has the ptential to get fans off there seat and excited.
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I went with my mate who's a wolves fan. Now I know it was a fitness exercise but I really don't see ideye as a main asset as in blistering pace or good in the air. His touch was very poor. Davidson also I can't see being better than poco. Some of the older group need to be moved on I think as they are nowhere near premier league level. The lad who played alongside gmac looks a talent even though his mistake have away the wolves goal. O Neil played well. I thought the young wolves left back looked a decent lad aswel.
I’m sorry but you simply cannot come to those sorts of conclusions after watching ONE game. Firstly, even the best players can look poor in one off games; it’s their consistency and ability to look good over the course of a season that sets them apart (Also, let’s not forget that Brown scored 2 in the previous U21 game!).
Secondly, Brown and Davidson are both significantly lacking in match practice and sharpness. You can be the best player in the world but if you don’t have the fitness to allow you to play how you want then you’re not going to look anywhere near the player you can be. They both need far more time to settle in and get up to speed before the judgements begin.
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I’m sorry but you simply cannot come to those sorts of conclusions after watching ONE game. Firstly, even the best players can look poor in one off games; it’s their consistency and ability to look good over the course of a season that sets them apart (Also, let’s not forget that Brown scored 2 in the previous U21 game!).
Secondly, Brown and Davidson are both significantly lacking in match practice and sharpness. You can be the best player in the world but if you don’t have the fitness to allow you to play how you want then you’re not going to look anywhere near the player you can be. They both need far more time to settle in and get up to speed before the judgements begin.
im not judging any of them im merely giving my opinion on what i saw. regarding ideye what im saying is most strikers have a particular asset, i didnt see him excell at any. maybe with better players around him he may shine,but he will also have better defenders around him. overall when you consider the experience within that team against a wolves team of mostly kids i was really disappointed.
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is Barrow the one we got from Plymouth ?
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Yes, he came to us from Plymouth in about 2011.
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/under-21s-squad-for-bolton-trip-tonight-1916864.aspx
ALBION visit the County Ground, Leyland, to face Bolton tonight (ko 7pm) in the Barclays Under-21 Premier League.
Liam O’Neil, Kemar Roofe and Bradley Garmston will all be looking to impress against the Trotters after being included in James Shan’s 16-man squad.
ALBION (from): Barrow, Donnellan, Garmston, Hawkins, Kandi, Leko, S.Nabi, A.Nabi, O’Neil, Pace, Palmer, Roofe, Rose, Smart, Ward, Wedderburn.
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So none of the ´unfit ´ones are included , interesting when we have no midweek game and dont play until Sunday. Have to conclude that ALL should be available this weekend.
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So none of the ´unfit ´ones are included , interesting when we have no midweek game and dont play until Sunday. Have to conclude that ALL should be available this weekend.
You would like to think so.
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Seems bizarre that we haven't seen any media with Varela and he's yet to feature in any of these games.
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Seems bizarre that we haven't seen any media with Varela and he's yet to feature in any of these games.
makes you wonder if we actually signed him, ive seen or heard nothing about varela.
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Just got back from the U21 game.
Liam O'Neill and Kemar Roofe were outstanding. Really stood out for me. Finished 3-1.
Howard Webb was there as well.
Considering our new signings are lacking fitness, I was quite disappointed that none of them figured tonight!
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With our lack of pace out wide, if Varela's still not ready why not get Roofe on the bench and give him 20 minutes...nothing to lose and maybe something to gain.
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makes you wonder if we actually signed him, ive seen or heard nothing about varela.
I saw him on Saturday after the game, going to his car in the players car park with his family.
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i still can't get my head round why none of the so called unfit players weren't involved last night :-\
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i still can't get my head round why none of the so called unfit players weren't involved last night :-\
Perhaps they believe they are better off just training with the squad for the next week in preparation for Spurs. A lot has been made of players not being fit but there is also the issue with the foreign lads of settling into the squad and learning how we want them to play. If they play in reserves I am assuming they lose that day training with the seniors and most likely the next due to warm downs.
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i still can't get my head round why none of the so called unfit players weren't involved last night :-\
Last night's game was an official FA under 21 league game so we couldn't throw in a batch of overage players.
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Last night's game was an official FA under 21 league game so we couldn't throw in a batch of overage players.
I was under the impression you could play 3 over age outfield players and a goalkeeper so I'm not sure the rules are the reason why none of them appeared.
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I was under the impression you could play 3 over age outfield players and a goalkeeper so I'm not sure the rules are the reason why none of them appeared.
You may be right but not sure. Maybe the club wants to prioritise these games for genuine under 21s for their development and monitoring if they are going to make it.
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Actually I do agree with you, competitive games should be used for the genuine under 21 lads.
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I don't think it's just about physical fitness, it's also about synergy with other members of the team. Not going to get that with 2 or 3 playing in U21 games.
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I'd hope the players are close to where we need them to be with regards to fitness, so spending more time with the group is probably for the better.
I don't know if anyone read AI's programme notes, but he was suggesting the team is starting to gel, with players, I think it was Gardner in his example, realising the kind of passes players like Blanco want. Sounds hopeful.
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Allow 3 overage outfield players and over age Keeper
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Varela in the squad for tonights U21 game v Brighton
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/varela-named-in-tonights-u21-squad-1935014.aspx
SILVESTRE Varela has been named in Albion’s 16-man squad to face Brighton in tonight's Barclays Under-21 Premier League clash at the Ricoh Arena (ko 7pm).
The FC Porto winger, recruited towards the close of the summer transfer window on a season-long loan deal, has been steadily stepping up his fitness levels with a view to being in contention for first-team selection.
And he will now get his first piece of match action in an Albion shirt as James Shan’s U21 Baggies outfit look to continue their fine start to the season against the Seagulls.
Liam O’Neil, Luke Daniels, Kemar Roofe and Adil Nabi, among others, are also included.
Albion squad (in alphabetical order): Daniels, Donnellan, Ezewele, Howkins, Kandi, Leko, A Nabi, S Nabi, O’Neil, Pace, Roofe, Rose, Smart, Varela, Ward, Wedderburn.
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Has Garmston gone out on loan? Is he injured? Haven't heard or seen him feature much.
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Has Garmston gone out on loan? Is he injured? Haven't heard or seen him feature much.
What about giving Blanco and Samaras some game time, or are the in line for Hull
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This means Varela won't be featuring in Hull games by the looks of it! Shouldn't be too far away from full fitness now
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Albion line-up: Daniels, Ezewele, Smart, O'Neil, Donnellan, Howkins, Roofe, A Nabi, Kandi, Leko, Varela.
Subs: Rose, S Nabi, Pace, Wedderburn, Ward. ‪
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Varela has just scored for the U21s along with Nabi. He does exist!
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This means Varela won't be featuring in Hull games by the looks of it! Shouldn't be too far away from full fitness now
Would hope Varela can at least come off the bench against Hull and again against Burnley - regardless of yesterday we need more pace if we intend winning home games.
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Has Garmston gone out on loan? Is he injured? Haven't heard or seen him feature much.
Garmston played in the U-21 game last week at Bolton. Maybe he has a knock.
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I asked about Bradley when the team photo came out as I didn't think I'd see him in the pic'.
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Anyone know the result of tonight's game?
Just posted on official site 2-1 to the Baggies. ;D
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2-1 win tonight and much deserved. Varela looked good, a classy player. O'Neil did well holding the midfield in a 4-1-4-1. We har a lad on out hands with some real ability in Leko but he definitely needs some work in the gym and needs to mature on the ball, both will come in time. Roofe was lively but don't think he will be our level, can see him doing a Mantom. Our stand out player was Nabi who played deeper than I thought he would in the centre midfield. Technically sound, confident, fit, was pleased with him.
Garmston was in the crowd sitting next to Nathan Redmond.
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Nabi certainly seems to know where the net is.
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Our stand out player was Nabi who played deeper than I thought he would in the centre midfield. Technically sound, confident, fit, was pleased with him.
Nabi certainly seems to know where the net is.
I think he has always played in a deeper role baggiebof. When I have seen him before he is often playing in a second striker/advanced playmaker sort of role. I remember against Telford last pre season he played the same with Alex Jones in front of him. Before he picked up his season ending injury, he was behind every good move we made in that game pulling all of the strings.
I hope that 12 months out has not had too much of an impact on his development as he always an interesting player and it would be good for us to bring through another player who might be able to get into our first team.
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According to the England site Leko was only born April 1999, making him just under 15 and a half. At that age you do not want him doing too much in the gym. The risk of tendon injuries when growing makes weights work especially dangerous. Let him develop in his own time and up the gym work in 1-2 years when he has finished growing. In the meantime, what a prospect to be playing regular U21 at 15, and be in the England U17 team.
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ive been quite impressed with the lad who plays centre half howkins is it?
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>:(
http://www.westlondonsport.com/features-comment/football-wls-blues-linked-with-west-brom-youngster-along-with-liverpool-man-city-and-tottenham
"Jonathan Leko of West Bromwich Albion is the latest teenager to be linked with Chelsea.
The Independent on Sunday say the 15-year-old striker is attracting interest from the Blues, Tottenham, Manchester City and Liverpool.
West Brom, who lost Isaiah Brown to Chelsea a year ago, are said to be determined to hang onto Leko.
The player was born in the Democratic Republic of Congo, has represented England at Under-16 level and is already a regular in Albion’s Under-21 side.
Chelsea have also recently been linked with West Ham’s Reece Oxford, 15, and Leicester City’s Hamza Choudhury, 16."
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What a rubbish, depressing system this is. If the FA want evidence that a player can emerge and benefit through being handled well by a 'small' well run club, they can take a look at Saido.
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...and Southampton's products for that matter.
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This system is ridiculous, what is the point in any club trying to bring talent through? The FA really need to sort this if we are ever to have a successful national team, I can't see the point in losing our best players to be lost in Chelsea's stockpiling system. And people wonder why clubs go for the cheap proven foreign option.
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>:(
http://www.westlondonsport.com/features-comment/football-wls-blues-linked-with-west-brom-youngster-along-with-liverpool-man-city-and-tottenham
"Jonathan Leko of West Bromwich Albion is the latest teenager to be linked with Chelsea.
The Independent on Sunday say the 15-year-old striker is attracting interest from the Blues, Tottenham, Manchester City and Liverpool.
West Brom, who lost Isaiah Brown to Chelsea a year ago, are said to be determined to hang onto Leko.
The player was born in the Democratic Republic of Congo, has represented England at Under-16 level and is already a regular in Albion’s Under-21 side.
Chelsea have also recently been linked with West Ham’s Reece Oxford, 15, and Leicester City’s Hamza Choudhury, 16."
Not surprised sadly. He looked quality in the reserve game I saw.
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This system is ridiculous, what is the point in any club trying to bring talent through? The FA really need to sort this if we are ever to have a successful national team, I can't see the point in losing our best players to be lost in Chelsea's stockpiling system. And people wonder why clubs go for the cheap proven foreign option.
and with the FA putting a limit on non-EU signings, pushing the EU prices up, it's giving the big clubs with the money yet more advantage.
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With the price of stealing youth players now, little over 200k, there really is no risk of just signing up the best for clubs like Chelsea. Had it came in a few years earlier we probably wouldn't have kept Berahino either.
Only the FA could be so incompetent that their plan to improve academy football is single handedly destroying it. Eventually it'll get to the stage where clubs are closing down their academies because they're not beneficial anymore. At least the system before we'd get hefty compensation for players. 200k probably barely covers the investment in a player who's been in the academy for a number of years. Chelsea have 40 players in their youth team squad which says it all, 40 players for 11 spots. If you can't even make match day squads at under 18 level, what chance do these players have of developing?
Izzy Brown could have been starting for us now had he stayed here. Instead he'll be lucky to play again in the premier league before he's 20. Lukaku couldn't even get a look in there despite them having a dearth of strikers which says it all about their youth development.
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It tells you all you need to know about the potential of a youngster if they are regulars in the reserve/under 21 side at just 15-years-old like Leko. Not seen him play but to be ahead of others in his age group is very encouraging, need to do all we possibly can to keep hold of such players and continue to develop them.
Its just a shame the system in place allows for top clubs to pick off promising youngsters for next to no compensation where they are likely to get lost in the system and be lucky to achieve much in the game despite looking like they have the world at their feet at a smaller club. I thought the whole idea of categorising the academy system was so that the coaching standards were consistent, there should be little or no benefit for a youngster to move from one category 1 club to another so it should be in the rules that they can't poach from each other. Why should you spend £3m or so a year to keep up to category 1 standard if you are going to lose players for peanuts? We shouldn't have to spend like that to produce players for bigger clubs unless we largely dictate the fee of a potential transfer to make it worth our while.
Its difficult to blame young players like Izzy Brown, Yan Dhanda and Jerome Sinclair for joining big clubs. They, or sometimes their family/advisors will get their head turned by money and encourage them to move when the chance comes. However there is also the honour of playing for a real top club and the dream that they will develop and break into the side at some point, it rarely happens that way and sometimes they don't realise it could be better for their development to remain at smaller clubs and have a much better chance of breaking through.
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Its quite simple to me how the system should work.
The club that the player plays for through the academy gets first option on that player no matter what. Secondly no club can poach players.
Its not a hard rule to implement either.
Quite simply the FA is setup to pander to what it calls the 'Top Clubs'...
If clubs continue to poach then clubs like us will simply close the academies and then the first people to moan will be the FA when we decide to go foreign to replace the players we WOULD have brought through the academies.
Its so obvious how the system is setup to benefit the rich so called big clubs that its not even funny. Its ruining football and ruining the national team. Something needs to be done about it and done instantly or all the hard work clubs have put in to youth systems will be lost forever with no going back and thats when the English game dies a death
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Since I was child my Dad has always said that football is like a house of cards, take away the bottom and the top falls in
The worst thing they did in English football was when they stopped gate receipts from all league games being split 50-50, the 'BIG CLUBS' decided they wanted to keep all the gate receipts from home games to themselves, this ensured that clubs like us, Bolton, Burnley, Wolves, Preston would never win a league again and those clubs with bigger stadiums and fanbases only got bigger and better.
Before that every club had a steady stream of income each week from every game.
The FA screwed our game up and now they punish clubs for going into Admin because they cant afford to support themselves with an income only received every other week on average.
They are doing another damaging thing to our game allowing clubs to stockpile youngsters and allowing them to take players from good clubs to rot in the youth systems of clubs such as Chelsea.
Perhaps they should have a squad limit on youngsters allowed to be registered at each age group.
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Eventually it'll get to the stage where clubs are closing down their academies because they're not beneficial anymore.
They already are.
Wycombe, Yeovil & Crawley Town and I'm sure there are a couple of others I have forgotten who have closed down their academies since the implementation of the EPPP.
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you have hit the nail on the head there tom. The sponsers want Big teams, Big names. The FA will simply sit back and wait for their cut. The smaller clubs will struggle but they moneymen dont care about them
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Steve Madeley @smadeley_star · 2m 2 minutes ago
In the process of checking out the interest in Albion's latest teenage star, Jonathan Leko, I've had it confirmed they've agreed (1/2)
Steve Madeley @smadeley_star · 2m 2 minutes ago
a fee with Chelsea for Izzy Brown after more than a year of haggling. The figure is undisclosed but it's avoided a tribunal. #wba
Steve Madeley â€@smadeley_star 27s27 seconds ago
As for Leko: no bids but Albion are aware the 15-year-old striker is being watched by many clubs. They're very hopeful of keeping him. #wba
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I guess the important part is selling the kid on the idea that at Albion he has a far better chance of actually playing by his teens. The family are also important, if his family are refugees then i dare say they're not that well off, so Chelsea or whoever offering a few hundred thousand may swing it.
Saido coming through for us is of a double bonus as he's living proof the plan can work. Izzy brown not playing 1st team football is a reflection in the opposite. I would love to know how much we finally agreed. It must have been decent to avoid the tribunal?
The youth player rules need changing. If our promising kids keep being stolen there's no point keeping the academy.
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let's just hope Jonathan Leko has the sense to look at the respective careers of Saido and Izzy Brown and see how they have developed over the last 2 years. He should see some sense.
But yes the current system is wrong.
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Brown was around the first team 18 months ago and got a brief appearance. If he had stayed on I'm sure he would have been sniffing around the first team. I think and hope Leko would have tried to do the same rather than chasing cash.
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To be honest its about time something like a junior contract came into play , something like until 18 years old you stay with the club that picked you up and trained you since the age of 7 or whatever then the club have first option . If i was JP I'd be very tempted to shut the academy down if this keeps happening , knowing him he won't keep tipping 3M into it and getting players pinched for pennies . What 13/ 14 / 15 year old really needs to be under that strain regarding money , sponsorship and big clubs ? No wonder our National side struggles when all the players get poached to the big clubs and put in huge groups.
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let's just hope Jonathan Leko has the sense to look at the respective careers of Saido and Izzy Brown and see how they have developed over the last 2 years. He should see some sense.
But yes the current system is wrong.
I'm not sure Izzy is quite the example of making bad choices just yet. He played with the Chelsea first team during pre season and has had Mouriniho waxing lyrical about him. Berahino also didn't make his debut for us until he was 20 and Izzy is still 17.
If Chelsea want him enough, I doubt there is much we can do to stop him. The FA need to make the compensation figures more of a risk to the purchaser and benefit to the academy.
As for an academy getting first refusal. It can't happen I wouldn't have thought due to certain laws and human rights.
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Brown was around the first team 18 months ago and got a brief appearance. If he had stayed on I'm sure he would have been sniffing around the first team. I think and hope Leko would have tried to do the same rather than chasing cash.
To be honest Brown looked way out of his depth that day against Wigan , IMO that was done in hope he would stay. What really annoys me is we are hoping Leko and the likes will stay after finding them , putting them on the route to Pro football and coaching them over a number of years ....it's almost like we give them everything then at the end we are begging them to stay .This junior Champions League the big clubs playing in just makes things worse , as i posted above JP won't have much more of this.
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Playing Vile at The Shrine at the minute. No seniors involved. 3 - 1 up goals from Adil Nabi (2) and Kemar Roofe all this after Vile went in front.
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Playing Vile at The Shrine at the minute. No seniors involved. 3 - 1 up goals from Adil Nabi (2) and Kemar Roofe all this after Vile went in front.
4-1 now. Nabi hattrick
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4-1 now. Nabi hattrick
Even at u21...this feels good :P
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Wonder if he has any chance of getting a bench place against Man U?
On a side issue, it would be a huge plus in the PR department for a talented local Asian lad to come through. That shouldn't make any difference, but it would be an added bonus. Plus it would help in bulking the team out.
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Is there any match footage available for this game.
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As above is there any highlights for this game??
I do like the sound of Nabi he seems to be a young lad with lots of potential too
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Wonder if he has any chance of getting a bench place against Man U?
On a side issue, it would be a huge plus in the PR department for a talented local Asian lad to come through. That shouldn't make any difference, but it would be an added bonus. Plus it would help in bulking the team out.
On a slightly similar note. I spoke briefly to a player and his dad from our academy recently. The same age group that went years unbeaten (they have now lost though, they lost 5-1 to Bayern Munich who were apparently incredible and 2-1 to Real Madrid).
They both said there's a lot of people within the club still trying to get Money on Dhandra being the first Asian to play for England, he is that good. Shame we lost him.
They also said that Leko is unbelievable (already Sponsored by Nike) although he doesn't play with them much anymore.
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Highlight of our game against Villa
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/highlights-albion-u21-4-villa-u21-1-2020934.aspx?
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nice confident finishes, 2 footed as well by the looks of it,
I would love us to do a 3 degrees MK11 wth asian lads.
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Who was the left back for Villa's first goal? Hope it wasn't Garmston! :O
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Who was the left back for Villa's first goal? Hope it wasn't Garmston! :O
was it lb or ch covering for lb?
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The back four is in position when the free-kick is conceded. The person who misses the header (what I have issue with) is definitely the left back.
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Thats the first thing I noticed on the highlights was the LB completely missing his header
However I cant hold it against him too much, Ive not seen his other games, one slip that gets noticed on the highlights isnt enough for me to judge him on anyway
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Really hope to see Nabi, Roofe, O'Neil starting to break into the first team soon. It would give encouragement to our youth players like Leko showing they have a future here if they work hard.
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If the kids can break into the current squad they will have to be of high quality and that will ensure that our future is safe for a lot of years, either by ability or generating cash.
If we could get a crop of kids breaking through, well, who knows what that may bring.
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Who was the left back for Villa's first goal? Hope it wasn't Garmston! :O
Well Garmston is black so I don't think it was him.
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Impressed how well he stood up to the physical in the build up to the first, great finishing and composure by both of them mind. In contention for the cup game do you reckon?
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Looking at the line-up I think Smart played left back with Garmston much further forward.
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Looking at the line-up I think Smart played left back with Garmston much further forward.
Smart?
He didn't look too clever to me.
Boom boom.
:D ;).
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For those wondering about Leko i think he wore the number 9 shirt in the above game.
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Well Garmston is black so I don't think it was him.
Didn't bother to change the highlights to 720p, couldn't tell at 360p.
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Nabi and roofe are close to the first team now, expecting them involved sooner rather than later.
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I don't think that they are that close to the first team.
Don't get me wrong they are very good in the U-21's but the gulf between the two sides is enormous! I think that if we get an easyish cup game then maybe put them in....or on the bench. But not in the league.
On a side note I wil be going to watch the U-21's at Leigh vs Blackburn.
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-youngsters-primed-for-action-2020770.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-youngsters-primed-for-action-2020770.aspx)
Youngsters continuing to impress
ALAN Irvine believes Albion's youngsters are ready to showcase their talents in the Football League - after 90 scouts applied for the Under-21s fixture against Villa.
The Baggies claimed a 4-1 win against their neighbours, with Adil Nabi scoring a hat-trick and Kemar Roofe also performing well.
Donervorn Daniels is already out on loan, currently playing for Championship side Blackpool.
Irvine has yet to make up his mind which players will be granted loan moves away from The Hawthorns - yesterday's U21s performance will certainly give him food for thought - but feels it would benefit some players.
"In the case of some of the young lads they may well go out on loan but we will see, other clubs have to come asking first and it has got to be the right thing for them to do as well," said the Albion head coach.
"There are some lads who are ready for league football. Liam O'Neil has obviously shown how well he can cope.
"With the performance he had against Hull you are thinking 'You have done enough to be in and around the squad'.
"He would be a difficult one, whether or not we want Liam O'Neil to go out on loan or not - that's another matter.
"It's looking at the individual circumstances for each of the lads.
"Kemar Roofe needs to be playing beyond Under-21 level, so does Adil Nabi, so does Bradley Garmston.
"We can't make that happen, it takes another club to phone us and say 'Can we have such and such a player on loan?' and then we will assess the situation.
"In Donervorn Daniels case a Championship club phoned up wanting him on loan. 'Is he going to play? Yes, great. You can have him on loan, how long do you want him for?'
"That's been done through to January which is great, if it had been a League Two club we would probably have said you can have him for a month and then we'll review it at that stage."
Sounds promising, to say the least.
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I should think there'll be a few clubs enquiring about Nabi given he seems to have an eye for goal. Question will be whether we want him playing 2 games a week in the championship relatively soon after coming back from the cruciate injury.
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ADIL Nabi and Liam O’Neil will be keen to impress as Albion Under-21s host Stoke City at the Ricoh Arena tonight in the Barclays U21 Premier League (7pm ko).
Republic of Ireland Under-21 international Bradley Garmston is also included in James Shan’s 16-man squad.
Albion Under-21 squad in full: Atkinson, Barrow, Birch, Cleet, Garmston, Howkins, Jones, Leko, S.Nabi, A.Nabi, O’Neil, Palmer, Roberts, Rose, Smart, Wedderburn.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-under-21-squad-to-play-stoke-2060059.aspx#5viGDJJS2bADJO4F.99
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HT WBA U21's 1-0 Stoke U21's
(Scorer - Alex Jones)
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won 3-1
Scorers:
Alex Jones X2
Adil Nabi
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I went again tonight, really impressed with Alex Jones. First time I've seen him play and I was pleased. Adil Nabi again showed his class even though it wasn't his best game and O'Neill really lead by example. Lots of other decent performances too, notably from Samir Nabi an the centre backs.
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I went again tonight, really impressed with Alex Jones. First time I've seen him play and I was pleased. Adil Nabi again showed his class even though it wasn't his best game and O'Neill really lead by example. Lots of other decent performances too, notably from Samir Nabi an the centre backs.
thanks for feedback, sounds really encouraging
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I went again tonight, really impressed with Alex Jones. First time I've seen him play and I was pleased. Adil Nabi again showed his class even though it wasn't his best game and O'Neill really lead by example. Lots of other decent performances too, notably from Samir Nabi an the centre backs.
Talented, properly educated kids, progressing into the first team are really my main hope for us to break the hopeless Hodgson/Irvine style football.
If we can only keep the dirty paws of the 'top' clubs off them...
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At least once kids reach 18 and hopefully sign their first pro contracts, which is the case with most of the under 21 line-up, then it's the case that other clubs would have to part with money to get them. It's the young future stars age 13, 14, 15 that we have the problem with keeping from the clutches of the big boys.
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At least once kids reach 18 and hopefully sign their first pro contracts, which is the case with most of the under 21 line-up, then it's the case that other clubs would have to part with money to get them. It's the young future stars age 13, 14, 15 that we have the problem with keeping from the clutches of the big boys.
It's 17, once they get their NI numbers. I've always been curious as to how a "child" can sign a legally binding contract, but apparently if it's an employment contract, you can from 17. Odd, but there you are.
Otherwise totally agree. If/When Saido gets an England call up that will help our academy lads as he'll be the first (of many?) Albion youth players to get an England call in modern times.
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Many times the benefit of having the academy has been questioned, well perhaps we are staring to see the reward for the investment now.
It's been a long, long time since Albion have had a crop of youngsters coming through as well thought of as this lot seem to be.
Really, really promising from what is being said.
Well done Albion. Like GrGr says, all we have to do now is hang on to these boys, but I sense that with Saido making such slides the evidence is there for them that staying at the Hawthorns for at least a while is possibly a better route than shipping out in Sinclair, Dhanda or Brown fashion.
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Albion Under-21 team to play Derby County in the Barclays U21 Premier League Cup (2pm ko):
Palmer, Atkinson, Cleet, Howkins, Smart, Wright, Wedderburn, Pace, Samir Nabi, Jones, Adil Nabi.
Subs: Ross, Ezewele, Birch, Barrow, O'Sullivan
Derby County Under-21s: Mitchell, Lelan, Lowe, Koblenz, Rawson, Hanson, Santos, Guy, Thomas, Bunjaku, Bennett.
Subs: Barnes, Sharpe, Dryden, McDonald, Vernam.
No seniors. Though this is a cup match so not sure on eligibility.
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No seniors. Though this is a cup match so not sure on eligibility.
think it's academy only.
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Tyler Roberts captained and scored for Wales under 16's as they won the Victory shield tonight.
He was being linked with Liverpool at one stage - is he still with us ?
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Under 21's travel to Rugby Town tonight for 2nd round of the Birmingham Senior Cup
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Tyler Roberts captained and scored for Wales under 16's as they won the Victory shield tonight.
He was being linked with Liverpool at one stage - is he still with us ?
Yeah he is, recently been moved up from under16s to under 18s now, plays in the same team as Leko.
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Under 21's beat Rugby Town 6-2
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-wba-west-brom-rugby-town-birmingham-senior-cup-2105171.aspx#L9ldpBj0sWPLlwtx.99
ADIL Nabi scored twice as Albion began their defence of the Birmingham Senior Cup with an emphatic 6-2 win over Rugby Town last night.
James Shan’s side raced into a three-goal lead after just 21 minutes at Butlin Road, thanks to goals from George Cleet, Alex Jones and Samir Nabi.
However the Evo-Stik League Southern Division One Central outfit staged a spirited comeback, scoring twice through Robbie Burns on the stroke of half-time, and then Sam Youngs eight minutes after the break.
But two goals in the space of four minutes from Adil Nabi and then Danny Barrow midway through the second half, put any hopes of a Rugby revival to bed.
Adil Nabi, who captained the side on the night, then added his second and Albion’s sixth in the 82nd minute as the holders eased into the third round.
Speaking after the game, Albion Under-21 coach Shan said: “I value this competition and it is one that we want to win.
“I have spoken before about adding longevity to our season and the Birmingham Senior Cup does that.
“The game was a different kind of test to what we are used to.
“You never know what you are going to get from a non-league team, but we came through the test with flying colours.â€
Albion: Palmer, Atkinson, Garmston (Smart 60'), Birch, Cleet, Howkins, Wright (Wedderburn 70'), S.Nabi (Pace 75'), Jones, A.Nabi, Barrow.
Subs: Ross, Ezewele.
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Id like to see Nabi go out on loan soon and get some game time in the Championship if possible.
Looks a good prospect, just needs some experience now.
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In the absence of a proper reserve team, one might wonder why none of our "not fit enough to be selected" players featured in yesterday's game to improve their match fitness, assuming Rugby isn't regarded as being too far for them to travel....
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In the absence of a proper reserve team, one might wonder why none of our "not fit enough to be selected" players featured in yesterday's game to improve their match fitness, assuming Rugby isn't regarded as being too far for them to travel....
Exactly. It's because they are fit. It's just an excuse not to play them
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In the absence of a proper reserve team, one might wonder why none of our "not fit enough to be selected" players featured in yesterday's game to improve their match fitness, assuming Rugby isn't regarded as being too far for them to travel....
I see the point. The club seems to view this competition as a good way of getting the youngsters competing against non age-group teams. The opposition are also likely to be more direct and physical than the premier league level under 21 teams I suspect.
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In the absence of a proper reserve team, one might wonder why none of our "not fit enough to be selected" players featured in yesterday's game to improve their match fitness, assuming Rugby isn't regarded as being too far for them to travel....
In fairness, I'm not sure I'd want any of our first teamers turning out against some non-league footballers who of course play a much more physical game. And you have to take into account the quality of pitch as well, I know it happens on the best pitches in the country as well, but I'd imagine on a lesser pitch the probability of picking up ligament injuries(when the foot gets caught in the ground like Gera for example) is far higher.
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In fairness, I'm not sure I'd want any of our first teamers turning out against some non-league footballers who of course play a much more physical game. And you have to take into account the quality of pitch as well, I know it happens on the best pitches in the country as well, but I'd imagine on a lesser pitch the probability of picking up ligament injuries(when the foot gets caught in the ground like Gera for example) is far higher.
Questions will 100% need to be asked if Varela isnt on the bench the weekend.
Not sure how Irvine can defend himself if he says hes still not match fit, but not being put in the under 21s game.
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Gather we saw off Reading 5-0 yesterday. Roofe hat-trick and a goal each for Samir and Adil Nabi. Gamboa and Blanco played.
Adil Nabi scored with a 'sublime curling effort from 25-yards-out'. Hope he signs the new contract and gets a look-in before too long.
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Wonder if Gamboa and Blanco played because TP wants a look at them for the 1st team, for the shop window, or none of the above...
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We play Wolves at Molineux on Friday. Both sides at the wrong end of the U21 table.
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We play Wolves at Molineux on Friday. Both sides at the wrong end of the U21 table.
Aren't we 3rd?
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Aren't we 3rd?
We are indeed
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/barclays-u21-premier-league-tables.html?paramYouthStage=NATIONAL
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We are indeed
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/barclays-u21-premier-league-tables.html?paramYouthStage=NATIONAL
Any idea how many sides get promoted?
I'm sure I saw that Division One has a TV deal. Be nice to be able to watch the Under 21's on TV from time to time.
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Any idea how many sides get promoted?
I'm sure I saw that Division One has a TV deal. Be nice to be able to watch the Under 21's on TV from time to time.
Through that link there is a format explanation. It says the top 2 will be promoted so it seems we have a good chance.
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Any idea how many sides get promoted?
I'm sure I saw that Division One has a TV deal. Be nice to be able to watch the Under 21's on TV from time to time.
Two teams Relegated / two promoted each season.
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More rumours that Adil Nabi might be on his way to Villa now. It's not quite the same as losing a promising 15-17 year old as Nabi is now 20 but it would be frustrating to lose yet another youngster to a bigger side with more money. This is the third of fourth youngster rumoured to be on the way out in less than 12 months.
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More rumours that Adil Nabi might be on his way to Villa now. It's not quite the same as losing a promising 15-17 year old as Nabi is now 20 but it would be frustrating to lose yet another youngster to a bigger side with more money. This is the third of fourth youngster rumoured to be on the way out in less than 12 months.
Odd one about this is that he hasn't got a look in this season despite our infamous troubles finding the net! Made the bench but never looked in danger of breaking through any time soon.
Would he really get a look in at Villa with Benteke, Weimann and Agbonlahor (plus Kozak?) all competing for a starting spot? Unless he feels his chances are even more limited under Pulis than before, other than money I can't see a reason for going.
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Odd one about this is that he hasn't got a look in this season despite our infamous troubles finding the net! Made the bench but never looked in danger of breaking through any time soon.
Would he really get a look in at Villa with Benteke, Weimann and Agbonlahor (plus Kozak?) all competing for a starting spot? Unless he feels his chances are even more limited under Pulis than before, other than money I can't see a reason for going.
It was only this season he came back from his cruciate injury so would have been feeling his way back in for a while this season. Now he seems to be ready to kick on. I'm hoping the fact his brother is progressing well also might be a factor in making him stay. There is another younger brother...not sure if he's progressing well also or may have been let go at some stage ?
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do we play the wolves this Friday, would love to watch this but don't think it gets covered by tv.
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Aren't we 3rd?
My apologies. I saw a table the other day that show we were both near the bottom. Must have been last seasons final table or out of date. Can't find it now.
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Tonights line-ups
Albion Under-21 team to play Wolves Under-21 at Molineux in the Barclays U21 Premier League (7pm ko):
Palmer, Smart, Cleet, Atkinson, Garmston, Pace, Samir Nabi, Adil Nabi, Roofe, Leko, Jones.
Subs: Ross (GK), Birch, Roberts, O'Sullivan, Wedderburn.
Wolves Under-21 team to play Albion Under-21s:
Flatt, Matinyadze, O'Hanlon, Weeks, Upton, Carter, Bancessi, Kellermann, Keita, Torras, Hunte.
Subs: Burgoyne (GK), Rainey, Wilson, Reid, Ortega.
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Tonights line-ups
Albion Under-21 team to play Wolves Under-21 at Molineux in the Barclays U21 Premier League (7pm ko):
Palmer, Smart, Cleet, Atkinson, Garmston, Pace, Samir Nabi, Adil Nabi, Roofe, Leko, Jones.
Subs: Ross (GK), Birch, Roberts, O'Sullivan, Wedderburn.
Wolves Under-21 team to play Albion Under-21s:
Flatt, Matinyadze, O'Hanlon, Weeks, Upton, Carter, Bancessi, Kellermann, Keita, Torras, Hunte.
Subs: Burgoyne (GK), Rainey, Wilson, Reid, Ortega.
Probably reading too much into these things but the lack of Blanco and Gamboa hopefully means they are being considered for tomorrow. Doesn't guarantee they will make the 18 but you'd think if TP wanted rid he'd allow them more game time? Unless of course it's just to keep their morale up by making them feel included...
I think I've confused myself :(
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Probably reading too much into these things but the lack of Blanco and Gamboa hopefully means they are being considered for tomorrow. Doesn't guarantee they will make the 18 but you'd think if TP wanted rid he'd allow them more game time? Unless of course it's just to keep their morale up by making them feel included...
I think I've confused myself :(
I may be wrong but I'm not sure any of the senior players have had games for the U21's in league games. All the games I can remember that featured senior players were all friendlies.
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Anyone know tje score from tonight?
0-0 bore draw.
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What are they called these days and where do they play?
Is it still open entry to season tickets or are all games now behind closed doors?
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What are they called these days and where do they play?
Is it still open entry to season tickets or are all games now behind closed doors?
Many U21 league games are played at the Ricoh in Coventry this season but they have to play a set number at The Hawthorns which is usually the ones to get a decentish crowd (Villa/ Woves etc). I think some are behind closed doors as well though at the Training Ground.
Free for season ticket holders, £5 for others unless behind closed doors
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I read that there were 950 or so fans at the Wolves v Albion Under 21's game the other evening
Fighting broke out between Wolves fans and......................................... Wolves fans, classic!
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Away at Newcastle today 1pm kick off and could go top if they win I believe
Albion U21 team v NUFC: Palmer, Atkinson, Smart, Birch, Howkins, Cleet, Roofe, S.Nabi, Roberts, A.Nabi, Wedderburn
subs: Ross, Pace, Barrow, Jones, Leko
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Does anybody know if Nabi has signed a new contract yet, or whether he is still attracting interest from the Vile?
All seems to have gone a bit quiet.
Sorry if this has been covered, but finding it very time consuming keeping pace with the 'Wild Speculation and Blind Panic Fish Wife' thread.
;).
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Ended 1-1 Heardman for Newcastle and Roofe equalised
West Bromwich Albion (4-4-2): Alex Palmer; Wesley Atkinson, George Cleet, Kyle Howkins, Tom Smart; Rees Wedderburn (Jonathan Leko 61), Aaron Birch, Samir Nabi (Callum Jones 84); Kemar Roofe; Adil Nabi, Tyler Roberts
Subs not used: Ethan Ross, Ryan Pace, Danny Barrow
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Jonas Olsson, Cristian Gamboa, Sebastien Pocognoli & Jason Davidson will all play for Albion at Hednesford tonight in the B'ham Senior Cup
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currently
Newc p13 24pts
Derby p14 24
backside p12 24
Wba p13 23
the boys are very much in the shake up
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Albion team to play Hednesford Town in the Birmingham Senior Cup quarter-final (7.45pm ko):
Rose, Atkinson, Howkins, Olsson, Pocognoli, Birch, S.Nabi, A.Nabi, Gamboa, Jones, Davidson.
Subs: Palmer, Pace, Wedderburn, Cleet, Barrow.
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Were's Davidson playing? :-)
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Were's Davidson playing? :-)
Away at Hednesford perhaps?
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51' GOAL! Hednesford Town 0 Albion 1 (Jones)
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FT. Hednesford Town 0 Albion 1 (Jones 51')
The Baggies book a place in the last four of the Birmingham Senior Cup with a narrow win over Hednesford here at Keys Park
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-under-21s-west-brom-wba-bolton-2288545.aspx
ALBION Under-21s will be looking to extend their unbeaten run to nine league games when they host Bolton Wanderers on Monday afternoon at the training ground (1pm ko).
The Baggies’ impressive recent form has seen them climb to just one point off the top of the Barclays U21 Premier League division two table.
Loan moves for Liam O’Neil, Kemar Roofe, Jack Rose, Wesley Atkinson, Donervorn Daniels and Bradley Garmston have done little to hamper James Shan’s side’s surge.
And the Under-21 Coach admitted the eight-match unbeaten record is a fantastic achievement for his players, but insists they must keep working hard.
“To go eight games unbeaten at any level is a great achievement and one which should not go unnoticed,†said Shan.
“I am really proud of my players.
“Part of their development is learning how to win games, and also learning how to stay solid and not get beat.
“They have shown some real intelligence, grit and resilience during this run.
“We have also kept three clean sheets in that time too, which is always pleasing.
“Bolton are a very well organised team, and the last time that we played them it was a terrific contest and also quite an open, exciting game.â€
Just five points separate The Trotters in seventh and league leaders Newcastle United, with Albion currently occupying fourth spot.
The progression of players from the Under-21 squad into the first-team is the main target for Shan, but winning as many games as possible and pushing for promotion into division one are also high on his list of priorities.
“The league is very tight at the moment, and in our last three games we have had the opportunity to go top,†said the Under-21 boss.
“The ultimate aim is to develop players so that they play in our first-team.
“Saying that, both as a group and individually, we are winners and we are determined to win as many games as we can and finish as high up the league as possible.
“To people looking in from the outside, our season will either be deemed a successful one or an unsuccessful one depending on where we finish in the league, so we want to try and aim for a promotion spot.
“Should we produce players that can or will play Premier League football, we will have had a fantastic season.â€
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Anyone going to the Bolton game tomorrow, Could they please PM me
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Good to see the boys are doing so well!
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Congratulations to the team and to Mr Shan and his assistants, terrific achievements.
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Anyone going to the Bolton game tomorrow, Could they please PM me
Pretty sure its at the training ground and as such the general public, ie us, aint allowed in to watch
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Pretty sure its at the training ground and as such the general public, ie us, aint allowed in to watch
No problems cheers
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Albion Under-21 team to play Bolton Wanderers (1pm ko):
Rose, Atkinson, Smart, Pace, Cleet, Howkins, S.Nabi, Birch, Jones, A.Nabi, Roberts.
Subs: Palmer, O'Sullivan, Wedderburn, Barrow, Campbell.
Bolton Under-21 team:
Campbell, Holding, Sellers, Boben, Taylor, Campbell-Young, Lester, Woodland, Eaves, Iliev, Newby.
Subs: Ball, Thomas, Garrett, Nolan, Perry.
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FT. Albion (A.Nabi, Roberts, Atkinson) 3 Bolton (Eaves, Woodland) 2
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Nice run the lads have put together with a lot of their group away on loan, should bode well for future.
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Highlights available
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjiaByAsu9E&feature=youtu.be
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Highlights available
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjiaByAsu9E&feature=youtu.be
That goal from Nabi was superb, tidy finish by Atkinson for the 3rd goal too.
Also look out for the cross from the Bolton lad for the 1st Bolton goal. Superb cross
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Thought our second goal was very nice to be honest. Very patient passing. Got a bit lucky with the wayward pass which hit our own man but still a very good goal
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Yes seemed to be moving the ball around nicely in those clips.
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Gamboa, Davidson and Pocognoli will be playing for the under 21 ' s today. They will never get a chance in the first team, shame.
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Our strongest left back in 1st half season has to play in under 21 's team lol
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Our strongest left back in 1st half season play in under 21 's team lol
An absolute disgrace. JP should be asking a few searching questions today IMO.
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I don't understand, did Poco sleep with Tony's wife or something? He's doing everything but play him there. Brunt is pants there, Lescott is even worse there! Poco is more than comfortable, he gets stuck in, he's not a midget. What is there not to like?!
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I don't understand, did Poco sleep with Tony's wife or something? He's doing everything but play him there. Brunt is pants there, Lescott is even worse there! Poco is more than comfortable, he gets stuck in, he's not a midget. What is there not to like?!
He is foreign mate.
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FT. Albion U21 1 (A.Nabi 55') Middlesbrough U21 3 (Fewster 41' 77' Pen, Mondal 62')
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By all accounts Poco, Davidson and Gamboa were awful and hardly staked a claim for the first team, shame.
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By all accounts Poco, Davidson and Gamboa were awful and hardly staked a claim for the first team, shame.
hardly surprising though is it?, lack of matches and motivation !!
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hardly surprising though is it?, lack of matches and motivation !!
Or professional pride? ;)
If they lack motivation in training too how are they ever going to change Pulis' mind?
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What does 'by all accounts' mean? Were you there? If not where did you get this information? I would much prefer to see comments from someone who was at the match.
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My best friend went and as I want Poco in the first team he delighted in texing me every 5 minutes saying how poor he was and Brunt is a better option.....Twitter was also full of comments from people who went and not one person said any of them played well and as you can probably imagine most are crying out for Pulis to play them, hope that helps you understand chief.
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In one of the Sunday papers there was a bit from Gamboa who said he wasn't going to be picked as he wasn't a six-foot six center back, and that he attacked too much for Pulis.
All three of them are international players, and yet they don't play the Pulis way. If you want a reason they might lack motivation, maybe it's because they know they aren't wanted and not likely to be given a chance.
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Victor Anichebe, Youssouf Mulumbu and Cristian Gamboa are all in action for Albion's U21s today at Villa (ko 1pm). More team news soon (from Twitter)
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Victor Anichebe, Youssouf Mulumbu and Cristian Gamboa are all in action for Albion's U21s today at Villa
No Pocognoil,he may have chances to play against Man City? (Brunt may be suspended)
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Villa got a strong side out as well
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ht Vile 1 Albion 0 deja vu
edit SickVic off at ht!! saving him for sat or injured? answers on a postage stamp please 8)
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They will only want him to play 45
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FT. Villa Under-21s 3 (Burke 5', Grealish 54', Webb 72') Albion Under-21s 0
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Not just the 1st team that are rubbish against Villa then
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Can anyone talk about Gamboa's performance?
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I've been informed today that there has been a friendly arranged for Tuesday 24th March, Stourbridge v Albion U-21's at The War Memorial Ground, Amblecote, Stourbridge. Free entry, 7.30pm kick off.
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anyone got updates for tonights match against Blackburn.
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From Albion Facebook page
HT. Albion 0 Blackburn 1 (Bauress pen 33')
The Baggies are a goal down and a man down here at the break, after Kyle Howkins was dismissed for bringing down Rovers' winger Devarn Green inside the penalty area. Bradley Bauress stepped up to convert the spot-kick. Forward Tyler Roberts has been sacrificed as a result of Albion being reduced to ten men, with defender Josh Ezewele coming on
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many thanks Oldbury, u21s have hit a bad patch lately.
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0-1 was the final score.
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U21 seem to have fizzled out a little over the last few weeks after going top of the league.
Anyone know if the likes of Gamboa etc are getting game time?
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Gamboa wasn't playing yesterday. The team was Palmer, Atkinson, Cleet, Howkins, Smart, S.Nabi, O'Sullivan (Pace 71’), A.Nabi, Roberts (Ezewele 34’), Jones, Wedderburn (Birch 71’). Howkins was sent off in the first half.
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Gamboa wasn't playing yesterday. The team was Palmer, Atkinson, Cleet, Howkins, Smart, S.Nabi, O'Sullivan (Pace 71’), A.Nabi, Roberts (Ezewele 34’), Jones, Wedderburn (Birch 71’). Howkins was sent off in the first half.
I'd assume he got called up to play for Costa Rica during this international break, but I'm having trouble finding out if they have any games.
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I'd assume he got called up to play for Costa Rica during this international break, but I'm having trouble finding out if they have any games.
Drew 0-0 with Paraguay Friday, Gamboa not involved
http://uk.soccerway.com/matches/2015/03/27/world/friendlies/costa-rica/paraguay/1987001/
Next game is tomorrow away to Panama
http://uk.soccerway.com/teams/costa-rica/costa-rica/477/
Both Friendlies
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Semi-final of the Birmingham Senior cup tonight at Nuneaton. McManaman, Gamboa, Wisdom, Pocognoli and Davidson all playing.
Ridiculously really, going from a first team with no full backs to an U-21 team with a back 4 made up entirely of full backs.
Only McManaman who has a chance of being involved in any first team games, so his is the only performance to look out for.
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Albion team to play Nuneaton Town in the Birmingham Senior Cup semi-final (ko 7.45pm):
Palmer, Wisdom, Davidson, Pocognoli, Gamboa, Garmston, McManaman, O'Sullivan, Birch, Roberts, A.Nabi.
Subs: Ross, Leko, S.Nabi, Atkinson, Cleet.
Nuneaton Town:
Crocombe, Cowan, Dean, Ogleby, Gordon, Rees, Smith, Wheeler, Nardiello, Dawson, Sodje.
Subs: Brown, Walker, Franklin, Wren.
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HT. Nuneaton Town 0 Albion 1 (A.Nabi 23')
Baggies are ahead here in the Birmingham Senior Cup semi-final thanks to Adil Nabi's calm finish from inside the penalty area
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Wonder if Pulis or Kemp are there - any sightings ?
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How are the fullbacks doing?
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How are the fullbacks doing?
Which one. I counted 5?
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Which one. I counted 5?
Incredible. We can't have one in the first team, but there are five in the second string.
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Garmston is back with us? Thought he was out on loan?
Can only assume Wisdom is at CB, maybe with Poco? Can anyone there tell us how we've lined up? One of them must be playing on the wing too, surely?
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Garmston is back with us? Thought he was out on loan?
Can only assume Wisdom is at CB, maybe with Poco? Can anyone there tell us how we've lined up? One of them must be playing on the wing too, surely?
I'm not there but if I had to guess I'd the back four is like this.
Gamboa Wisdom Davidson Pocognoli
Pretty sure Davidson played centre back a fair bit earlier in his career so I'd imagine he played there tonight. Garmston likely to have played wide left midfield.
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FT. Nuneaton 1 (Ogleby 76') Albion 1 (A.Nabi 23')
Robert Ogleby forces extra-time with a late equaliser here in the Birmingham Senior Cup semi-final
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ET FT. Nuneaton 1 (Ogleby 76') Albion 1 (A.Nabi 23')
We go to penalties!
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FT. Albion surrender their grip on the Birmingham Senior Cup after losing 4-2 on penalties to Nuneaton Town. Cristian Gamboa and Tyler Roberts the unlucky men from the spot for the Baggies
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FT. Albion surrender their grip on the Birmingham Senior Cup after losing 4-2 on penalties to Nuneaton Town. Cristian Gamboa and Tyler Roberts the unlucky men from the spot for the Baggies
That's it! Pulis doesn't like Gamboas penalty taking abilities (or lack of) :P
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Albion Under-21 team to play Stoke at the Britannia Stadium in the ‪#‎BU21PL‬ (ko 7pm):
Palmer, Ezewele, Howkins, Cleet, Garmston, S.Nabi, Ward, A.Nabi, Roberts, Leko, Campbell.
Subs: Ross, Fitzwater, Hallahan, Edwards, Wright.
Stoke City Under-21s:
Gyollai, Prinhle, Moseley, Roberts, Teixeira, O'Reilly, Coban, Jarvis, N'Goy, Shenton, Taylor.
Subs: Barber, Kurasik, Banks, Williams, Yao.
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FT. Stoke Under-21s 1 (N'Goy 9') Albion Under-21s 1 (Roberts 70')
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Under 21's playing Arsenal at the training ground at the moment, teams are
(https://scontent-lhr.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/19483_10155498777785080_8067329136107174785_n.jpg?oh=6c7bd204690cdf46aa71421c830348a3&oe=559EF996)
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No Danny Barbir?
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HT 1-0 Albion (Fitzwater 17')
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No Danny Barbir?
U 18's probably got a game in a few days, or training with the first team again?
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3-0 Albion, Such a young team here as well, Shocked
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Nabi appears to be getting frustrated with his lack of opportunity I imagine he will leave in the summer. Now were virtually safe it will be terrible if he doesn't get a chance over people like anichebe. I can understand thorned frustration to a large extent, with regards to lack of playing time. We are one of the worst in the country for trusting the academy.
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Nabi appears to be getting frustrated with his lack of opportunity I imagine he will leave in the summer. Now were virtually safe it will be terrible if he doesn't get a chance over people like anichebe. I can understand thorned frustration to a large extent, with regards to lack of playing time. We are one of the worst in the country for trusting the academy.
what has he done to make it appear that way? or do you think that is the case?
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I thought Adil Nabi is under contract or has re-signed & is available next season for loan
He is a totally different type of player to Anichebe, more a deep lying forward, I can't see how he can break into our first team not a Tony Pulis type of player, doesn't track back & just simply nowhere near the quality of Sess & Saido.
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First season back after a major knee injury - I can see why the club would be hesitant about throwing him in the deep end too soon. That said, 20 minutes here and there wouldn't be too bad for him.
He's also 21 - his birthday is in February so he has one season left at U21 level. Next seasons could be make or break for him.
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Adam Campbell who played number 9 is on trial from Newcastle.
http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2015/04/28/exciting-newcastle-united-striker-adam-campbell-on-trial-with-we/ (http://hereisthecity.com/en-gb/2015/04/28/exciting-newcastle-united-striker-adam-campbell-on-trial-with-we/)
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here's a set of highlights from Arsenal. You never think it how much our lads feature!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaUrmvAneRM
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Kemar Roofe has scored again for Oxford, 6 goals in 7 games. Same sort of record Saido had when he first went out on loan.
Think he's out of contract ? Should look to extend and loan him out to a league 1 side then look again at the end of next season.
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Kemar Roofe has scored again for Oxford, 6 goals in 7 games. Same sort of record Saido had when he first went out on loan.
Think he's out of contract ? Should look to extend and loan him out to a league 1 side then look again at the end of next season.
Always done well in the under 21 side yet until now hasn't done much in loan spells , suppose it helps having Appleton at Oxford who knows at lot about Roofe.I'd be tempted to give another year and loan out but he isn't a kid anymore.
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I noticed Nabi and someone else young looking were in the dugout behind Pulis. Have they been in the travelling squad for a while?
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Drew 0-0 at home to Derby tonight
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/wba-derby-county-u21-draw-2442782.aspx
ALBION Under-21’s were held to a goalless draw by Derby County at The Hawthorns in the Barclays U21 Premier League.
The stalemate extended Baggies’ unbeaten run to three league games, as both sides missed decent chances to claim all three points in an even encounter.
George Cleet was the first man to try his luck after just two minutes, his header from Adil Nabi’s corner was well saved by Jonathan Mitchell.
At the other end, Ivan Calero fizzed a shot at goal from all of 25-yards in the tenth minute, but Alex Palmer safely watched it whistle past his far post.
The two Campbell’s for Albion, Tahvon and Adam, then produced an eye-catching bit of link-up play on the edge of the area before the latter fired at goal, only to see Mitchell make a fine save.
Shortly after the half-hour mark, Ivan Calero’s dipping drive from 25-yards whistled inches wide of Palmer’s near post.
Palmer was, however, called into action nine minutes after break, when Mason Bennett forced him into a brilliant one-handed save with a fiercely-struck effort from inside the penalty area.
When the Baggies ‘keeper was finally beaten by Bennett in the 66th minute, Kyle Howkins came to his rescue by making a superb goal-line clearance to prevent the Rams winger from opening the scoring.
A minute later, the home side had a chance to take the lead but Adil Nabi headed Bradley Garmston’s cross over the bar from 12-yards.
The same Nabi brother had the game’s final chance, but his curling effort from just outside the penalty area went narrowly wide.
Albion: Palmer, Ezewele, Cleet, Howkins, Garmston, A.Nabi, S.Nabi, A.Campbell (Fitzwater HT), T.Campbell (Wright 70’), Leko (Hallahan 73’), Roberts.
Unused subs: Ross, Edwards.
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Anyone going tonight ? Newcastle at home might take a stroll up to have a watch, is it just the halfords open for these games ? Never been before, thanks.
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Yes it is the Halfords Lane stand for the U21 games.
Don't forget your stilecard for free entry.
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Yes it is the Halfords Lane stand for the U21 games.
Don't forget your stilecard for free entry.
Thanks I'm unfortunately not a season ticket holder but don't mind paying a fiver quite looking forward to it.
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here's a set of highlights from Arsenal. You never think it how much our lads feature!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jaUrmvAneRM
Thought Nabi and Adam Campbell both are talent.
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Thought Nabi and Adam Campbell both are talent.
Adam Campbell from Newcastle? What's he doing playing for our U21s?
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Adam Campbell from Newcastle? What's he doing playing for our U21s?
he's on trial with us or at least he was
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At home to Newcastle tonight
(https://scontent-cdg.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xta1/v/t1.0-9/11255793_10155547586320080_3382589675916603095_n.jpg?oh=141ebaf9ec2f1290495fa8f740ecdcca&oe=55D1D8B1)
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It would be interesting to get the views of someone who perhaps goes to a few u21 games on Tyler Roberts. Could potentially have a really decent player there!
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Kemar Roofe close to joining Oxford on a perm apparently.
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beat Newcastle 3-2 (T. Roberts 26, Campbell 85,87)
Tahvon Campbell scored 2 goals in 2 minutes while only being on the pitch just over 10.
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beat Newcastle 3-2 (T. Roberts 26, Campbell 85,87)
Tahvon Campbell scored 2 goals in 2 minutes while only being on the pitch just over 10.
Hunnington is there a league table for the u21s, I know we had a chance of promotion not long back but is this still a possibility.
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beat Newcastle 3-2 (T. Roberts 26, Campbell 85,87)
Tahvon Campbell scored 2 goals in 2 minutes while only being on the pitch just over 10.
Didn't he travel to Man U with the first team last week?
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Hunnington is there a league table for the u21s, I know we had a chance of promotion not long back but is this still a possibility.
There you go.
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/barclays-u21-premier-league-tables.html?paramYouthStage=NATIONAL
I think it's top 2 isn't it? so, long story short, no.. not a chance.
Also If you wanted to see, here's the under 18's too, we made the knockouts but lost to Everton a few days ago.
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/barclays-u18-premier-league-tables.html?paramYouthStage=KNOCKOUT
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Didn't he travel to Man U with the first team last week?
Roberts did with Nabi, Campbell I don't think did.
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Kemar Roofe close to joining Oxford on a perm apparently.
Done Deal, congrats to Kemar and best of luck for the future. Happy for the academy too as another player breaks into the Football League.
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Done Deal, congrats to Kemar and best of luck for the future. Happy for the academy too as another player breaks into the Football League.
Roofe was being touted by some as someone who should be picked in the first team and play in the Premier League. It turns out that he's only currently good enough to play 3 divisions lower than that. The raison d'etre of the Academy has to be to produce Premier League-quality players, not players of League 2 standard. If it can only do the latter, shut it down and redistribute the money elsewhere.
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Roofe was being touted by some as someone who should be picked in the first team and play in the Premier League. It turns out that he's only currently good enough to play 3 divisions lower than that. The raison d'etre of the Academy has to be to produce Premier League-quality players, not players of League 2 standard. If it can only do the latter, shut it down and redistribute the money elsewhere.
In short agreed, Or if we don't give them experience of 20 minutes here and there for the first team there's not really much of a point to it is there really.
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The academy apparently costs around 2m per year to run. By this it is a success if ;
we produce a 20m prem player every ten years,
we produce 10 x 200k players every ten years
we produce one or two first team players we use regularly (thus saving us cash)
Looks like Berahino could be the one in ten year player. Sinclair (Liverpool) and Izzy Brown would've been in our first team squad by now too. Therefore, three premier first team players in the past 4 or 5 years is a good return. The problem is, the 'bigger' clubs poach them young so they can use them in their home grown quotas, not really with the intention of using them in their first teams much.
I hope we keep the academy going and I hope we get protection against teams poaching our players for fluppance so we can benefit because under FFP it's our only real chance of competing.
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Yes I agree with the above to however when you consider Brown will be worth 20 odd million in few years it does make you wonder if it's worth it they just get poached, saido after pulis reign will not be worth 20 mill unfortunately.
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It would be interesting to get the views of someone who perhaps goes to a few u21 games on Tyler Roberts. Could potentially have a really decent player there!
I watched him quite a bit at the start of the season as he was in the same team as my friends brother, the under 16s.
He got moved up to train with the 21's around Jan/Feb and hes been involved with them ever since, he travelled to Old Trafford with the squad.
The lad can score goals. He would be quiet for 10-15 minutes and then run onto a through ball and put the under 16s 1-0 up. Hes also good at holding the ball up (at under 16s level) cannot comment on how hes done for the 21's as I havent seen him play.
Leko is the same aswell, hes one of the brightest prospects in our academy, hes rated higher than Yan Dhanda (the one Liverpool poached).
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There you go.
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/barclays-u21-premier-league-tables.html?paramYouthStage=NATIONAL
I think it's top 2 isn't it? so, long story short, no.. not a chance.
Also If you wanted to see, here's the under 18's too, we made the knockouts but lost to Everton a few days ago.
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/matchday/barclays-u18-premier-league-tables.html?paramYouthStage=KNOCKOUT
Thanks for the links, not doing to bad really also its nice to see the wolves bottom of the league.
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I hope tyler Roberts gets a chance next season. Alongside Leko they are the best prospects we've had for years and years.
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I hope tyler Roberts gets a chance next season. Alongside Leko they are the best prospects we've had for years and years.
I dont think they are ready for first team football yet.
Tyler is only 16, and as a striker he would get bullied I feel against premier league defenders.
Give them another year in the under 21's see if they continue to impress, then when they are 17-18 can look to either loan them out or give them a crack.
I would prefer us to give Nabi a chance first.
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Here is the City reports Bradley Garmston is to be released by the club at the end of the season.
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I have to admit (very sadly) that i am coming around to the view that our Academy will not be around much longer.
I do think a lot of clubs will soon say "let the big clubs run their own academies, as it is just not cost effective running ours only to let the best kids get cherry picked, we would be better off picking up the big clubs "failures".
How sad is this.
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I think as a Premier League club we have a duty to keep our academy going, not only for us as a club, but also for home-grown talent and for the benfit on the Football League
Yes we might not have an academy side as good as Chelsea or whoever, but those lads we do have are good footballers and 80% of them that get through to their first professional contract will probably end up somewhere in the football league.
All you need is for one Berahino to come along every 10 or 20 years and you recoup all the money in one instance.
I mean, look at the Walsall team that got to Wembley this year - the Chambers twins, Sam Mantom, Romaine Sawyers, Paul Downing. All from our youth setup.
I remember Dan Ashworth when he was a youth coach/head of our academy, he said something along the lines of from any one year group, at say U15 level, only a small percentage progress to the next level, then at U17 or whatever it is, an even smaller percentage get taken forward. But even these players probably won't break into the first team. But to just abandon the entire setup altogether? That doesn't sit well with me.
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I agree - it would be very depressing if we abandoned the academy.
I guess the way Pulis wants his defence to look would count against whatever chance Garmston had of making it......but we'll wait for official word from the club before commenting on that too much
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Adil Nabi scores against Reading, leading 1-0
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How do you follow the score
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FlashScore.com
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Reading's twitter account
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Yes it just twigged to check :D thanks though and great to see nabi on the scoresheet surely going to move on in the summer and try he's game in the football league.
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Seems we was very close to getting promoted only a point between us and second place, well done to Shan and the team.
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Alex Jones has signed for Birmingham City on a 2 Year deal plus one year option.
http://www.bcfc.com/news/article/alex-jones-birmingham-city-2451722.aspx?
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I can't remember where I saw it, it might have been on here, but it said we were re-evaluating the current U-21 squad, maybe to bring a few more through to the first team? Was it Peace's piece (ha!) in the programme?
Good move for Alex, never had much hype about him but seems to have scored a fair few at U-21 level
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I can't remember where I saw it, it might have been on here, but it said we were re-evaluating the current U-21 squad, maybe to bring a few more through to the first team? Was it Peace's piece (ha!) in the programme?
Good move for Alex, never had much hype about him but seems to have scored a fair few at U-21 level
according to transfermarkt (which admittedly is not the most reliable source when it comes to youth teams) say he managed 11 goals and 4 assists in 47 games for the U21's over the span of 4 years, which isn't terrible when you consider he was competing with Nabi and Saido for a place. I think his only external experience is when City had him on trial a few months back, so he's managed to make Championship level without ever going on loan.
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according to transfermarkt (which admittedly is not the most reliable source when it comes to youth teams) say he managed 11 goals and 4 assists in 47 games for the U21's over the span of 4 years, which isn't terrible when you consider he was competing with Nabi and Saido for a place. I think his only external experience is when City had him on trial a few months back, so he's managed to make Championship level without ever going on loan.
Yeah a goal or assist every 3 and a bit games isn't bad going, but not setting the world alight either. To compare to Adil Nabi, Adil has a goal or assist every 149 minutes vs Alex's 212.
Average appearance is about 67 minutes across all seasons for Jones vs 75 for Nabi.
Wish the lad well
EDIT: I didn't realise Adil Nabi was scoring at better than a goal every other game for the U-21, and he has 6 assists!
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Yeah a goal or assist every 3 and a bit games isn't bad going, but not setting the world alight either. To compare to Adil Nabi, Adil has a goal or assist every 149 minutes vs Alex's 212.
Average appearance is about 67 minutes across all seasons for Jones vs 75 for Nabi.
Wish the lad well
EDIT: I didn't realise Adil Nabi was scoring at better than a goal every other game for the U-21, and he has 6 assists!
oh yeah, it's why behind Saido, Adil was touted as the big offensive player in this batch of players, arguably we havent got someone to replace him yet, Andre Wright and Tahvon Campbell look closest but there isn't a prodigious striker like we have in midfield (Tyler Roberts & Jonathon Leko)
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Roberts is a striker
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Roberts is a striker
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really? he's played as a midfield for alot of this season for U18's & 21's.. then again Alex Jones was a midfielder turned into a striker , so what do I know.
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Remember reading something that they like giving players a taste of different positions in the academy. I had Tyler Roberts down as a striker though.
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Tyler Roberts is a striker.
Plays up front and captains the Wales youth team.
Hes always played up front through the youth levels, especially at under 16s.
Defiantly a striker.
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Adil Nabi, Liam O'Neil & Donvervorn Daniels have all signed new 12 month deals.
Alex Palmer offered a 2 year professional deal.
Kyle Howkins has signed a 1 year professional deal.
Professional contracts also offered to Danny Barbir, Ethan Ross, Zak Elbouzedi, Robbie McCourt & Shaun Donnellan.
Alex Jones released who has already signed for Blues.
Bradley Garmston released.
Mani O'Sullivan released.
Wez Atkinson released.
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No mention of Jonathon Leko dos anyone know what his contract status is?
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No mention of Jonathon Leko dos anyone know what his contract status is?
Agreed a contract "in principle" so we are just waiting till he's 17 so he can legally sign.
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Agreed a contract "in principle" so we are just waiting till he's 17 so he can legally sign.
It's a stupid situation isn't it? We've got to wait till next April and hope that in the next 11 months some sleaze-ball agent doesn't basically bribe his parents with £40k to join Chelsea or something. So how do we handle this? Do we not play him and hamper his progression, only to try to ensure he stays or do we play him, get his profile big and risk the consequences?
I guess with him and Tyler (next Jan is his birthday) and any of the others, we can only hope that he instil a certain sense of pride and loyalty at some point so they feel like Albion and the concept of leaving isn't that attractive. If Izzy was indeed a Chelsea fan as a kid, then that sucks, but with the others I guess we can just wait and see.
We're a Premier league club damn it! We shouldn't be in a situation where we're hoping a kid doesn't do a runner. It's a pathetic situation and the youth team EPPP set up is broken where Level 1 clubs can lose players like this.
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Agree knave, but from what I've heard (and I'm not saying it is at all correct or that I know anything as a matter of fact) that we have learnt from Izzy's situation (where a contract was verbally agreed but not much more as we felt that EPPP would cover us from poaching) and Leko has essentially already made up the contract and is technically tied to it.
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Bradley :'( :'(
Really hope we keep Nabi as a 3rd/4th choice striker next season. He's no worse than what we currently have. O'Neil can be Baird's replacement - plays in all the same positions except left back I believe.
Don't know as much about Daniels but playing for two different clubs should have helped him this year.
Hopefully the next lot of youngsters have the same sort of impact as the current crop, if not more so!
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Nabi didn't even make the squad for the last game of the season when there was nothing riding on the game, when we put a 16 year old on the bench, he's clearly not going to play here under Pulis. No idea why we've given him a new contract, let him make a career for himself elsewhere - its embarrassing to have a 21 year old on our books who has never played in a pro game.
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Nabi didn't even make the squad for the last game of the season when there was nothing riding on the game, when we put a 16 year old on the bench, he's clearly not going to play here under Pulis. No idea why we've given him a new contract, let him make a career for himself elsewhere - its embarrassing to have a 21 year old on our books who has never played in a pro game.
Seems happy at the club from an interview he gave in January even if he's not playing hopefully one of them can break through next two years.
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Nabi didn't even make the squad for the last game of the season when there was nothing riding on the game, when we put a 16 year old on the bench, he's clearly not going to play here under Pulis. No idea why we've given him a new contract, let him make a career for himself elsewhere - its embarrassing to have a 21 year old on our books who has never played in a pro game.
. I think it was the case yesterday that whether it was Nabi or Roberts they weren't going to get on (sadly in Nabi's case) as Anichebe and Ideye were also on the bench. Nabi has sat on the bench a handful of times already so it was probably a case of giving Roberts a taste of the match day squad.
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Tyler roberts being called up for sales first team!!
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Tyler roberts being called up for sales first team!!
Do you mean Wales by any chance ? Looks like he's been invited to train with them without actually being named in the squad.
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Do you mean Wales by any chance ? Looks like he's been invited to train with them without actually being named in the squad.
I wonder if the Jack Grealish situation has prompted this and they want to try and tie him down as I think TR can play for England as well.
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I wonder if the Jack Grealish situation has prompted this and they want to try and tie him down as I think TR can play for England as well.
I would say this is almost certainly the case, apparently he was called up by both England and Wales at underage levels and chose Wales. They did the same with a player called Harry Wilson a couple of years back, capped him at 16 in the last couple of minutes then dropped him back down the age groups again.
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I would say this is almost certainly the case, apparently he was called up by both England and Wales at underage levels and chose Wales. They did the same with a player called Harry Wilson a couple of years back, capped him at 16 in the last couple of minutes then dropped him back down the age groups again.
Correct about Wilson. It should come down to the player choosing the country they feel they belong to. Hopefully, (in my eyes) that would be Wales and he'd have a better chance of an international future and at a time when Wales should have a half decent team which can be built around Ramsey and Bale for at least the next 6 or 7 years.
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There's an article on the newfeed, which sadly I can't paste into here as my computer is playing up, but it's by Bill Howell (yes, I know....) and in it he states that Leko and Tyler Roberts are being kept at the club, as Albion are confident that they have closed loopholes which saw previous kids leave.
Apparently the top four, plus Spurs and Liverpool have shown interest, but Pulis has spoken to the kdis and said he intends to get them involved in teams next season.
I'll be much happier once they are both 17 and have signed proepr forms, but following on from previous posts I am happy to see the club taking strides in this regard.
I'm personally not that surprised, as the guy who runs the accademy (Hopcroft is it?) retweeted someone I wrote on the WBA official page about us trying to keep our new promissing kids from Chelski and L'pool. I doubt he'd have done that if we looked like we'd be losing them as he'd just look a wolly then?!
Anyway, glad to see steps are being taken and I hope one or both can make the step up in the next season, even if only a couple of sub games like Saido in his first season.
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There's an article on the newfeed, which sadly I can't paste into here as my computer is playing up, but it's by Bill Howell (yes, I know....) and in it he states that Leko and Tyler Roberts are being kept at the club, as Albion are confident that they have closed loopholes which saw previous kids leave.
Here you go Knave, read it earlier.
Let's just hope it has more basis than most of the utter puerile tripe that he writes.
;).
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-youngsters-tyler-roberts-9336316 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-youngsters-tyler-roberts-9336316)
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If I remember correctly, Saido arrived on the scene with a few goals vs Newport in the League Cup, and kicked on from there. I think the first round we're in (2nd round?) should be treated the same for these young players. They need to show the fans, and TP, what they can do.
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Unless Nabi is sent on loan somewhere, I would think he'd be first in the queue for 1st round of the capital one cup. If he's not given opportunity next year then we may as well have let him go now.
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There's a video on Facebook from the official WBA account of a highlights reel of Tyler Roberts. Couple of very, very good goals. The one he brings down on his chest, then a touch, then a volley - lovely.
Found it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIpZO6H3zZE&feature=youtu.be
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He certainly scores some good goals.
Be interesting too see how he develops
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There's an article on the newfeed, which sadly I can't paste into here as my computer is playing up, but it's by Bill Howell (yes, I know....) and in it he states that Leko and Tyler Roberts are being kept at the club, as Albion are confident that they have closed loopholes which saw previous kids leave.
Apparently the top four, plus Spurs and Liverpool have shown interest, but Pulis has spoken to the kdis and said he intends to get them involved in teams next season.
I'll be much happier once they are both 17 and have signed proepr forms, but following on from previous posts I am happy to see the club taking strides in this regard.
I'm personally not that surprised, as the guy who runs the accademy (Hopcroft is it?) retweeted someone I wrote on the WBA official page about us trying to keep our new promissing kids from Chelski and L'pool. I doubt he'd have done that if we looked like we'd be losing them as he'd just look a wolly then?!
Anyway, glad to see steps are being taken and I hope one or both can make the step up in the next season, even if only a couple of sub games like Saido in his first season.
I wouldn't take much notice of Hopcroft, he was academy manager when I was at Blues as a kid, didn't come across too well. He's gone back and forth between positions at Albion and Blues over the last ten years. Anyway from what I can see at the minute we probably have the best academy in the midlands currently and hopefully we can stop so many of our youngsters being poached.
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I believe Mark Harrison is academy manager with Hopcroft as head of academy recruitment or something like that.
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This isn't U 21's, but is related to the youth team
Our U 15's are part of a tournament in Greece right know, we have just come second in our group and we will face Manchest City in the next round (first in their group) at 3:20pm British time. It will be streamed live on this website.
http://elite.neoncup.gr/en/home/
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This isn't U 21's, but is related to the youth team
Our U 15's are part of a tournament in Greece right know, we have just come second in our group and we will face Manchest City in the next round (first in their group) at 17:20 tomorrow (I don't know if it's Greek time or British time). It will be streamed live on this website.
http://elite.neoncup.gr/en/home/
Well, there's no other decent football on is there at that time?
Thanks for the link, will be watching that with the outside world shut out.
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lost on penalties, we also got Chelsea'd. Lead for a long time but conceded a penalty in extra time because of a dirty dive. Ah well, good experience for the kids and shows them just what scum is out there in the professional world.
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lost on penalties, we also got Chelsea'd. Lead for a long time but conceded a penalty in extra time because of a dirty dive. Ah well, good experience for the kids and shows them just what scum is out there in the professional world.
Thanks for tip off. Enjoyed watching it. Thought our no.8 Kane? Looked a class act. Were robbed in the end by the dive but again good to see another youth team with quality players in.
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Thanks for tip off. Enjoyed watching it. Thought our no.8 Kane? Looked a class act. Were robbed in the end by the dive but again good to see another youth team with quality players in.
Funny, I thought the No 8 ( I think it's Kane too) wasn't all that good, pace to burn, yes, but no actual idea what he was meant to be doing, or perhaps worse still he knew exactly what he was doing and refused to try anything different. He got the assist, then kept trying the same thing over and over again even when no one was in the box. the black guy with No.16 (Williams, I think) impressed me much more, strong drive with the ball but also cool enough to make time for himself and see a good pass. Couple of good tricks too. I feel for the No. 5, he did really well all game then got cheated.
I also found it hilarious how they kept calling one of our defenders David Luis, because he has that weird, foppish curly dread/afro style.
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I have always attended as many reserve/U21 games as i can and have done around 10 a season the last few years.
I am genuinely mistified as to why Roberts and Leko are rated so highly - in every game i have watched they have been totally pants!! So i wanted the view of others that have seen them in the flesh - partivularly anyone that has seen them at their level which is youth team?
Dont get me wrong - i desperatley want them to be the real deal, i also understand that even U21's is a big step up for them as they are both 16/17 and playing above their age range ( something TP wants to hevily promote ). So i have not been expecting them to pull up trees but they have been truely awful - the ball pings off Roberts, he doesnt look like he has a goal in him, and Leko is quick but normally runs straight into the full back or has no end product.
In saying all this - a couple of years back, Saido looked average in the reserves!! A lad we have just let go called Alex Jones that had a bad injury looked really good and far better than Saido. He got injured - Saido sorted his physique and head out and the rest is history.
BTW - A young C/H called Kyle Howkins has just been given a years pro contract and every game i have seen him in he has been stand out! Bar 1 mistake against Wolves early last year, he is dominant ( he is about 6 5" ) good on the ball and can tackle! He is right up Pulis' street, unlike the silky skills of Nabi unfortunatly who probably fits into the Sess/Gamboa type situation wherby he is not TP's bag!
Would be very interested in others thoughts please, particularly regular watchers.
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I was at the wolves game and I thought how good a player howkins is.
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Some of the Under 21 games to be played at Tamworth next season
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/baggies-agree-new-u21-venue-2511891.aspx
West Bromwich Albion have agreed with Vanarama National League North neighbours Tamworth to play Under 21 fixtures at The Lamb next season.
The agreement should see the Baggies play the bulk of their U21 Premier League fixtures at Tamworth as well as some of their Cup ties.
Premier League rules require Albion to play at least three games at their home stadium while the training ground is another venue the Baggies are able to use.
But the Barclays Premier League outfit believe the switch to Tamworth, following the end of a previous agreement to play U21 games at Coventry’s Ricoh Stadium, will suit their purposes.
Richard Garlick, Director of Football Administration, says: “We have always enjoyed a strong relationship with Tamworth and we’re more than pleased to have forged this agreement.
“We know the facilities will be of a good standard but also that the stadium will be a more suitable setting for our Under 21s’ following.â€
Albion have pencilled in seven League fixtures for The Lamb which has a 4,000 seat capacity and was the closing club of one of the most celebrated Baggies stars of modern times...
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reports that 19 year old Danny Barrow MAY be going to Sporting Kansas City in the MLS.
http://www.thebluetestament.com/2015/7/3/8889967/sporting-kansas-city-may-be-signing-a-19-year-old-from-west-brom
http://www.northdevonjournal.co.uk/Steven-Gerrard-Frank-Lampard-North-Devon-s-Danny/story-26820810-detail/story.html
From what I can tell, this was agreed way back in April.
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ok,I got bored and was thinking about the "success" of the academy in producing players and how many must be made to be considered as such, so I've tried to see where graduates have gone since leaving the academy in the last 5/6 years, ranked at the level they will play at the start of the new season. If I missed any, please add to the list
Premier League:
Ryan Allsop GK (sold 2011/est. £70,000 to Bournemouth) - Now at: Bournemouth
Isiah Brown LM/ST (sold 2013/by tribunal to Chelsea reserves) - Now at: Chelsea Reserves with a match for first team
Jerome Sinclair LM (sold 2012/by tribunal to Liverpool reserves) - Now at Liverpool Reserves with a match for first team
Yan Dhanda MID (sold 2013/ £??? to Liverpool reserves) Now at: Liverpool Reserves
Championship:
Chris Wood ST (Sold 2013/est £1 million to Leicester City) - Now at: Leeds United Previous Teams: Leicester, Ipswich Town (Loan)
George Thorne CM (Sold 2014/est £1.5/£2 million to Derby County) - Now at: Derby County
Alex Jones ST (Sold 2015/est FREE to Birmingham City) - Now at: Birmingham City
Chike Kandi ST (sold 2014/unkown fee to Brighton) Now at: Brighton (only spent 6 months with us)
League One:
Bradley Garmston LB (Sold 2015/est FREE to Gillingham) Now at: Gillingham
Donervorn Daniels CB (Sold 2015/est £??? to Wigan) Now at: Wigan Athletic
Romaine Sawyers CM (Sold 2013/ Est FREE to Walsall) Now at: Walsall
Sam Mantom CM (sold 2013/est FREE to Walsall) Now at: Walsall
Paul Downing CB (Sold 2012/est FREE to Walsall) Now at: Walsall
Luke Daniels GK (Sold 2015/£??? to Scunthorpe United) Now at: Scunthorpe
David Worrall RM (Sold 2009/FREE to Bury) Now at: Southend United Previous teams: Bury, Rotherham, Oldham Athletic
League Two
Kemar Roofe LW (sold 2015/ est Unkown fee to Oxford United) Now at Oxford United
Ryan Johnson CB (sold 2013/ FREE to Stevenage reserves) Now at: Stevenage
Overseas:
USA:
Danny Barrow CM (sold 2015/Free to Kansas City) Now at Kansas City
Mohammed Saeid CM (sold 2009/ £??? to BK forward) Now at: Columbus Crew Previous teams: BK Forward (Sweden), Orebro SK (sweden)
Ireland:
Lee Lynch (sold 2010/FREE to Glen Hoddle Academy) Now at: Limerick FC (2nd spell) Previous Teams: Hamilton Academical(Scotland), St. Patricks(Ireland), Sligo Rovers(Ireland), Drogheda United(Ireland), Jerez Industrial CF (Spain)
Those are the ones that I could find excluding those outside of the FL in England (Kayelden Brown, Jordan Francis etc), in minor international leagues (Lateef Elford Alliyu-Malta) or just released and picked up independently. as I'd be here all day. This also doesn't take into account the players who are just about to become overage (Adill nabi, Liam O'Neil) that are still with us.
As a result I found 18 members of the academy that are still within professional football at a comparatively high skill level, which isn't too bad considering there are only 3000 jobs at most in the Football League as a player and we currently have 12 at least from our academy (not including the three reserves players as there do not go to the 25 man squad. Also that we know that=, of these 6 years. the academy have roughly covered 2 years of running costs (£2 million a year).
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That was a really interesting read, Hunnington. I think it shows that even those who don't make it straight away can have good careers. I have know a guy who's a Bournemouth fan and he's touting Ryan Allsop as a future Prem keeper. No idea if that will be the case but sometimes the opportunities just aren't there in the first team, for example it will be tough for someone like O'Neill to break through at CM/DM as traditionally it has been one of the areas we have the most depth (Yacob, Fletcher, Morrison, Gardner etc).
I hope the early rounds of the cups look favourably on us this year, because Saido's hat-trick against Newport a couple of seasons ago was what really kick started his career, and we need some of the current crop of youngsters to get a chance like that and grasp it with both hands.
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Missed out Humphrey winger at Preston formerly Shrewsbury & some Scottish prem side
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Very interesting, great research! A complete matchday squad (barring reserve keeper) in a little over 5 years is pretty good going in my mind.
As a side note would James Hurst make that list? I see he's signed for Torquay....
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Scraping the barrel a bit but I believe that Lateef Elford Alliyu has played in the champions league for his side in Malta, albeit in one of the early qualifying rounds.
But we have an academy producing champions league players, what more can people ask for :P
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Missed out Humphrey winger at Preston formerly Shrewsbury & some Scottish prem side
Thanks for adding his name, but he was sold in 2006, I was only looking up to 2009, thats why I missed him :)
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Maybe stretching the net a little bit further, you could add a few more youngsters from the academy in recent year who are still in the professional game.
Ben Pringle plays for Fulham, having been at Derby and Rotherham
James Hurst is at Torquay United
Tamika Mkandawire is at the Tampa Bay Rowdies in the US
David Worrall (Maybe a poor example as we bought him at 15/16) is at Southend
Joss Labadie is at Dagenham and Redbridge
Jared Hodgkiss is at Kidderminster Harriers
Luke Daniels is at Scunthorpe
An unrelated fact that may interest you, somebody named Abi Clarke from the only way is Essex now goes out with former Albion academy prospect Rob Davies.
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Maybe stretching the net a little bit further, you could add a few more youngsters from the academy in recent year who are still in the professional game.
Ben Pringle plays for Fulham, having been at Derby and Rotherham
James Hurst is at Torquay United
Tamika Mkandawire is at the Tampa Bay Rowdies in the US
David Worrall (Maybe a poor example as we bought him at 15/16) is at Southend
Joss Labadie is at Dagenham and Redbridge
Jared Hodgkiss is at Kidderminster Harriers
Luke Daniels is at Scunthorpe
An unrelated fact that may interest you, somebody named Abi Clarke from the only way is Essex now goes out with former Albion academy prospect Rob Davies.
Thanks for those, I was unsure of whether to put Daniels on the list as we got him at 15/16 off Utd and was a more obvious one than Chike Kandi for example. but I think I will, so I'll add Labadie & Daniels to the list, the others are either sold too far back for my sample, or are not in a high enough league (not a dig at those levels, but I could spent the next day going through small non league clubs trying to find our old players and not catch them all!!)
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18 year old striker Jack Hallahan has recently had a trial with West ham.
Hammers check out West Brom youngster
Another player being given a chance by Academy Director Terry Westly is 18 year old West Brom youth striker Jack Hallahan.
The Republic of Ireland youngster was handed a trial during the under 21’s 4-0 trashing of Chelmsford on Friday evening.
Although the youngster didn’t manage to get on the score sheet himself he contribute an assist during the game. A short corner from Hallagan resulted in Nathan Mavila nipping inside before curling a beautiful shot inside the far post and beyond the outstretched arms of Timms to make it 1-0 at Half time.
West Ham United Starting XI: Sarkic, Knoyle, Westley, Cullen, Pask, Oxford, Mavila, Nasha, Gordon, Brown, Hallaghan.
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If he has only gone on trial he must have been released.
In other news, Wes Atkinson today signed for Notts County, so another Baggies alumni in the football league.
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First game of the season tonight away at Swansea 7pm kick off, Pocognoli captains the side. Leon Britton in the Swansea side
SWANS U21s: Josh Vickers, Daniel Alfei, Stephen Kingsley, Jay Fulton, Joe Roden, Alex Gogic, Leon Britton, Josh Sheehan, Owain Jones, Dan James, Ryan Hedges
SUBS: Tom Holland, Gregor Zabret, Keston Davies, Steve Fallon, Alex Samuel
WEST BROM U21s: Ethan Ross, Josh Ezewele, Sebastian Pocognoli (c), Liam O'Neil, Jack Fitzwater, Shaun Donnellan, Jonathan Leko, Samir Nabi, Tyler Roberts, Adil Nabi, Kyle Edwards
SUBS: Danny Barbir, Matthew Hall, Robbie McCourt, Chay Scrivens, Sam Field
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Albion beat Swansea 2-1 with Adil and Samir Nabi both on target.
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Great news. It was interesting to read the academy article today in the programme I know we have heard it before, but they seem cautiously optimistic about the current bunch.
Another interesting bit of news I found out from reading it. Donervan Daniels was not actually released this year - he chose he wanted to leave and rejected an Albion offer to stay. I do respect him for that and feel he has made the right decision.
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Albion 2 West Ham 1 today at the training ground
goalscorers
Adil Nabi & Kyle Howkins for us
Elliot Lee for West Ham
Ross: Ezewelle (Howkins), Fitzwater, Donnellan, Pocognoli (McCourt at HT): Leko, O'Neil, Samir Nabi (Ward), Edwards: Adil Nabi: Roberts
other subs: Cleet & Hall
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Nabi scores again. Surely he has got to be given a chance soon? He keeps scoring every game now. I think we either need to give him a chance in the forward line could be used in the current 451 system as the advanced central mid) or we need to send him on loan to a league 1 club because he is now ready.
Also pleasing to see our under 21's are doing so well.
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In more good news, looking at the Kidderminster forum, Tahvon Campbell got voted their man of the match and was supposed to be very good. Quite funny looking through their squad and seeing 3 players on loan, and 2 more who came from our academy who have signed there permanently.
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Nabi scores again. Surely he has got to be given a chance soon? He keeps scoring every game now. I think we either need to give him a chance in the forward line could be used in the current 451 system as the advanced central mid) or we need to send him on loan to a league 1 club because he is now ready.
Also pleasing to see our under 21's are doing so well.
Yes, if he ends up leaving here at the end of the season without having had a chance it will be a sad reflection on the modern game. It's been monotonous seeing the Nabi name (usually Adil) on the score sheet of various under age teams in the past 3 or 4 years. He even scores free kick goals.
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U21's top of the table 3 wins out of 3 after 1-0 win over Blackburn tonight, Samir Nabi with the goal from the spot
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/report-baggies-u21-1-blackburn-0-2644659.aspx
ALBION Under-21s climbed to the top of the Barclays U21 Premier League division two table after a narrow 1-0 win over Blackburn Rovers at The Lamb.
Samir Nabi grabbed the only goal of the game from the spot six minutes before half-time, following a challenge from Sam Lavelle on Tahvon Campbell inside the penalty area.
The victory ensures Baggies maintain their 100% start to the season having played three matches.
Blackburn looked certain to take the lead after just ten minutes, but Ethan Ross made a spectacular save to thwart David Carson from just six-yards out.
After a slow start, the Throstles began to boss the game towards the end of the half and should have gone ahead when the ball dropped to Samir Nabi inside the area, only for the midfielder to lash his shot wide.
But the same man made up for his miss just two minutes later from the penalty spot, after Tahvon Campbell was brought down inside the area.
Nabi confidently stepped up and placed his penalty into the bottom right-hand corner, sending Rovers’ ‘keeper Ryan Crump the wrong way.
The hosts wasted a glorious chance to double their lead eight minutes after the restart as Jack Fitzwater missed the target from eight yards.
Rovers went in search of an equaliser but Willem Tomlinson, Connor Mahoney and Devarn Green all failed to rescue a point.
ALBION: Ross, Ezewele, Fitzwater, Donnellan, McCourt, Ward, S.Nabi, Edwards, Roberts (Smith 90), Campbell (Elbouzedi 65), Wright (Cleet 56).
Unused subs: Hall, Field.
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Adil Nabi not involved, probably in the squad tomorrow ??
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Adil Nabi not involved, probably in the squad tomorrow ??
Leko not involved either so assuming both are fit, hopefully they will feature tomorrow.
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Leko not involved either so assuming both are fit, hopefully they will feature tomorrow.
I may be wrong but i think Leko played (and scored) for the u18's either today or yesterday.
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Bring them on....and through.
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I may be wrong but i think Leko played (and scored) for the u18's either today or yesterday.
Looks like it was Saturday and yes he did score ...so would have thought he would be OK to play tomorrow.
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Sounds good. Lets hope these players are in the squad tomorrow
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Noticed the 3rd Nabi played in the under 18s also - Rahis aged 16.....must be very rare to have 3 brothers playing for the same club even at under 18 level.
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Leko not involved either so assuming both are fit, hopefully they will feature tomorrow.
Leko is with the England under 17's who have a game on Wednesday
On a similar note, we had 3 players in the last England under 16 squad.
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Interesting one...a quote from academy manager Mark Harrison on the official site...
“In the last three years, we are ranked fifth in terms of PL appearances from home grown players. That’s out of 24 clubs, so that’s significant recognition of the productivity of the Academy in terms of producing playersâ€.
Question is what does 'home grown players' mean, British ? or our own academy products. Can't be academy products can it ? Outside of Saido, George Thorne played a few before his first knee injury...other than that very brief appearances by Izzy Brown....stumped after that.
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Interesting one...a quote from academy manager Mark Harrison on the official site...
“In the last three years, we are ranked fifth in terms of PL appearances from home grown players. That’s out of 24 clubs, so that’s significant recognition of the productivity of the Academy in terms of producing playersâ€.
Question is what does 'home grown players' mean, British ? or our own academy products. Can't be academy products can it ? Outside of Saido, George Thorne played a few before his first knee injury...other than that very brief appearances by Izzy Brown....stumped after that.
I think Dawson is an academy player to.
Edit: we signed him when he was 20...
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I think Dawson is an academy player to.
Dawson was not a product of our academy.
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Interesting one...a quote from academy manager Mark Harrison on the official site...
“In the last three years, we are ranked fifth in terms of PL appearances from home grown players. That’s out of 24 clubs, so that’s significant recognition of the productivity of the Academy in terms of producing playersâ€.
Question is what does 'home grown players' mean, British ? or our own academy products. Can't be academy products can it ? Outside of Saido, George Thorne played a few before his first knee injury...other than that very brief appearances by Izzy Brown....stumped after that.
Berahino, Thorne, O'Neil, Brown, Luke Daniels got that half against Everton so that counts, Wood's beyond three years I think? Taking into account that Saido has 40/50-odd appearances to his his name and Harrison is not wrong, but is at the same time, as the others only amount to about 10 games. 5 for Thorne, 3-5 for O'Neil (guessing) and two halves for Daniels and Brown.
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superb performance tonight by Donnellan, ready for the first team NOW
squad at least
he should be playing in our league cup matches for sure
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http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/saido-berahino-proves-it-is-probably-better-not-to-move-to-a-big-club-academy-too-soon-10469982.html
When England Under-17s won the European Championship finals in May 2010, Sir Trevor Brooking, then the Football Association development director, proclaimed them “the best group we’ve had in six or seven years†and also wondered aloud when they would get a chance to play first-team football. On that score, Sir Trevor could hardly have been more prescient had he predicted last week that Callum Wilson was due a Premier League goal or three.
Today is a landmark for that winning team in that all bar one are no longer eligible for junior international football. Gareth Southgate will name his Under-21s squad today for the new Euro 2017 qualifying cycle and from the class of 2010 only Nathaniel Chalobah, the baby of that group then, will be young enough to continue playing at that level.
Apart from Chalobah, the boys of 2010 were all born in 1993 and to say that their fortunes have been mixed since then would be putting it mildly. Of course, every schoolboy team has its forgotten faces who never make the grade, but this was not just any schoolboy team. These were the champions of Europe, conquerors of Spain in the final and, as Sir Trevor said soon after, capable of producing more top players than the average junior squad.
So far this season only four of that squad – Saido Berahino, Ross Barkley, Jack Butland and Connor Wickham – have had any game time in the Premier League. The rest are spread over the leagues, forging their young careers with varying degrees of success; from Benik Afobe in the Championship with Wolves, to Bruno Pilatos, who played at Jarrow Roofing in the Northern League last season.
Ross Barkley’s recent displays will have impressed the England manager, Roy Hodgson Ross Barkley’s recent displays will have impressed the England manager, Roy Hodgson
It is worth noting that, beyond the four who have played in the Premier League this season, there are only a further three who are currently in the squads of top-flight clubs. They are Andre Wisdom (on loan at Norwich City from Liverpool); Luke Garbutt (Everton) and Sam Johnstone (Manchester United). Others, like Chalobah and Will Keane, still at least have Premier League parent clubs.
What is notable about the Under-17s of 2010 is that the four who have played Premier League football this season did not start out at the academies of the big four. They were given their chance early by the likes of West Bromwich Albion and Ipswich Town. By way of comparison, the three Manchester United players in the 2010 squad – Johnstone, Keane and Tom Thorpe – have made two Premier League substitute appearances for United between them.
Sir Trevor was right about that, too, asking at the time where “at Chelsea, Arsenal, Manchester United and Liverpool†young players would get first-team opportunities. “Every place in the league is worth £750,000,†he said, “so even at the end of a season you don’t get a chance to try out youngsters because you might lose three places and cost yourself £2m in the transfer budget.â€
Five years on and the notion of a piffling £750,000 being a consideration to a Premier League club seems gloriously outdated. In the summer of 2010, the Premier League was about to embark upon a three-year television deal worth £1.77bn. It hardly needs pointing out that from next summer it will be dividing up £5.14bn.
Of course, if it was simple to develop teenage boys into elite footballers everyone would be doing it. Some from 2010 will simply not have been good enough. For others, injuries have intervened, like George Thorne, now at Derby County and recovering from a cruciate ligament rupture, or Keane, who suffered the same blow. Josh McEachran seemed to slip into the comfort zone of a huge contract at Chelsea. Luke Williams is now at Scunthorpe United. His former Middlesbrough academy team-mate Pilatos was last spotted on trial at Blyth Spartans.
This is not intended to mock or diminish young men who have given their lives to make it as professional footballers, but no one can have any hesitation in saying that four Premier League graduates by 2015 would have been considered a disappointment in 2010 and certainly feels that way five years on.
There are some, like Afobe and possibly Thorne and Keane, who could yet work their way back to the top flight but that will be a hard journey. English football has, it should be pointed out, yielded some late developers from the generation of 1993-born boys who were not considered good enough in 2010. Harry Kane and Alex Oxlade-Chamberlain have blossomed into top players and there is hope that Patrick Bamford, Alex Pritchard and Jon Flanagan might yet have good Premier League careers.
What is the lesson? In the case of Berahino it appears to be that it is better to play first-team games at your parent club. If he does move this week, to Tottenham Hotspur or elsewhere, it looks like he will do so as a £25m man with 72 Premier League appearances to his name, which is more than Kane and only eight fewer than Oxlade-Chamberlain.
One wonders whether Isaiah Brown, 18, another West Bromwich academy boy who signed for Chelsea’s academy in 2013, will have made the same number of first-team appearances by the time he reaches his 22nd birthday, as Berahino did earlier this month. The word is that West Bromwich’s academy in Sandwell has another fine crop of players on the way. Even if the club lose Berahino this summer, his will be a useful case study for staff to use with parents whose heads have been turned by an offer for their sons from a big club academy.
Last year, England were European champions at Under-17s level once again, with a squad that included the aforementioned Brown, Patrick Roberts, signed by Manchester City from Fulham this summer, and Joe Gomez, recently acquired by Liverpool from Charlton Athletic. The cycle begins anew this season and in October England’s latest generation will be one of 24 teams playing at the Under-17s World Cup in Chile.
As ever, any promising signs at that tournament will be seized on by the FA and the Premier League that the Elite Player Performance Plan is working – and perhaps it is. But the boys of 2010 will know that, despite their early promise, the clock is already ticking and much of what Sir Trevor feared five years ago has come to pass.
Interesting article from Sam Wallace in the Independent something that I think every fan knows and which is why my heart sinks a little when I see a promising youngster head to City or Chelsea and why I desperately want to see our youngsters given a chance.
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Interesting one...a quote from academy manager Mark Harrison on the official site...
“In the last three years, we are ranked fifth in terms of PL appearances from home grown players. That’s out of 24 clubs, so that’s significant recognition of the productivity of the Academy in terms of producing playersâ€.
Question is what does 'home grown players' mean, British ? or our own academy products. Can't be academy products can it ? Outside of Saido, George Thorne played a few before his first knee injury...other than that very brief appearances by Izzy Brown....stumped after that.
If it's home grown in terms of the Premier League 25 man squad quota, then it will include all sorts of players. Any player who spent a certain amount of time at the academy of a club in England before a certain age counts as home grown in this scenario. It's a bit ridiculous as I remember reading that Clichy and Fabregas count as home grown because they spent a long period at Arsenal, despite being foreign and going on to represent their own countries.
Given we have a fairly big British make up to our squad, this isn't a surprise. In the last three years you could include Brunt, Morrison, Fletcher, Lescott, Gardner, Foster, Myhill, Daniels, Jones, Wisdom, Dawson, Berahino, O'Neil, Baird, Thorne, Reid, Sinclair, Ridgewell and maybe more as well as Chester and Lambert from this year.
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0-0 draw today away at Molineux
anything but a bore draw though
started off very brightly but faded, we really missed the two Kiddy loanees which left Tyler Roberts on his own up front, no end product when we were on top
backs to the wall in the second half when every ball we played forward kept coming back
Rose: Ezewele, Howkins (Barbir), Donnellan, McCourt: Elbouzedi, Cleet (Leko), Ward, Samir Nabi, Edwards: Roberts (Smith)
other sub Ross
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On the plus side, the U21's won 1-0 against a Villa team containing Jores Okore, Adama Traore and Libor Kozak.
Andre Wright (on loan at Kiddie) got the winner late into the game.
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Albion got through their first round of the Birmingham Senior Cup today at Tividale FC.
Not a great game. With the international break, Jonathan Leko, Danny Barbir, Rob McCourt and Tyler Roberts were all missing, while Tahvon Campbell, Andre Wright and Alex Palmer are still at Kidderminster so were unavailable for selection for this game. Also missing was first choice reserves goalkeeper Jack Rose.
We went head through man of the match Joe Ward, striking a long range effort. Ward is a small, dynamic central midfielder who was at the heart of everything we did. He seemed to be the main man doing all of the talking and organising the team, always urging them to move the ball quickly. Clearly the players felt comfortable moving the ball through him throughout the game.
Tividale scored direct from a free kick to equalise around half an hour in. The goalkeeping by Ethan Ross wasn't great if i'm honest, but I was disappointed by how many free kicks the defence gave away for having their arms all over the much smaller strikers. Fitzwater, Ezewele, Cleet, Donnelan and Howkins were the back 4/5 and although they cut off space and defender well, their distribution was awful, especially Cleet who had a bad night where nothing came off for him.
After a few changes in the second half, we eventually got the winner through Samir Nabi, thanks again to a great ball from Joe Ward.
As for my opinions on the players, Kyle Edwards on the wing was carrying a knock all game but seemed to be our biggest danger other than Ward, trying to beat the full back. Samir Nabi played almost as a deep lying midfielder and although he never gives the ball away, everything he did seemed too "safe" until the final 15 minutes where he finally started running at players. He seemed too happy to spread the ball and then admire his pass rather than getting into better positions that might harm defenders. Chay Scrivens looked good when he came on but he is very small and although we shouldn't judge a player on that, he will need to bulk up. Elbouzedi and Pierce both struggled to cause any problems up front which was disappointing.
Through the the second round, and hopefully next time we will have more of a full strength side out when facing a better level of opposition.
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Nice one Baggies, many thank’s for that.
What did you think of Ezwele and Donnelan in general play when they weren’t fondling :o the small opposition forwards?
I've been hearing good things about both, but never had the opportunity to see them beyond the odd video clip.
And no, they weren't fondling dwarves in said clips.
;).
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Strong u21 team tonight gamboa gnabry and berahino against west ham
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anyone know where the latest scores can be found.
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Finished 2-1 to West Ham so unbeaten run over, Saido scored our goal. By his Twitter it looks like he may have asked to played to get 90 minutes in. Fairplay to him.
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Finished 2-1 to West Ham so unbeaten run over, Saido scored our goal. By his Twitter it looks like he may have asked to played to get 90 minutes in. Fairplay to him.
thanks for that.
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Tonights game at Rushall in the Birmingham Senior Cup has been postponed due to a waterlogged pitch
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/birmingham-senior-cup-tie-at-rushall-postponed-2864541.aspx
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we have given a trial period to a 20 year old non league player and freestyler called Yasin Ben El-Mhanni. He will be placed in the U21's.
very little information as he's non-league, but he is predominantly a left midfielder who can play across the field in an attacking role and, naturally, he knows a trick or two.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3388662/Non-league-Riyad-Mahrez-Yasin-Ben-El-Mhanni-given-trial-West-Brom.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
Obligatory "Freestyle Tekkers" video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfvDLRUZj1k
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we have given a trial period to a 20 year old non league player and freestyler called Yasin Ben El-Mhanni. He will be placed in the U21's.
very little information as he's non-league, but he is predominantly a left midfielder who can play across the field in an attacking role and, naturally, he knows a trick or two.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-3388662/Non-league-Riyad-Mahrez-Yasin-Ben-El-Mhanni-given-trial-West-Brom.html?ITO=1490&ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490
Obligatory "Freestyle Tekkers" video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JfvDLRUZj1k
Nice tricks son but can you track back and work aaarrrrrrrrddddddd!!!!??? ;D
All joking aside unopposed freestyle skills are a hundred miles away from doing anything at any level of professional football.
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Nice tricks son but can you track back and work aaarrrrrrrrddddddd!!!!??? ;D
All joking aside unopposed freestyle skills are a hundred miles away from doing anything at any level of professional football.
Doesn't quite seem like a Pulis type of player.....
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Doesn't quite seem like a Pulis type of player.....
We have a few players in our team who do the occasional unintended 'freestyle' kick with the ball, so he might fit in well!
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We have a few players in our team who do the occasional unintended 'freestyle' kick with the ball, so he might fit in well!
Indeed, Lamberts backheels against Bournemouth and Stoke were particularly good!
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;D ;D love that!!
Indeed, Lamberts backheels against Bournemouth and Stoke were particularly good!
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/swansea-city/12091793/Oxford-United-3-Swansea-City-2-match-report-Swans-dumped-out-of-FA-Cup-after-Kemar-Roofe-scores-twice.html
According to this premier league scouts are keeping an eye on Roofe at Oxford. Good to see a product of our academy doing well. But for me this is proof that we don't give our prospects a chance.
Roofe has claimed as much...
http://readwestbrom.com/2016/01/10/ex-albion-attacker-says-never-got-chance/?
Nabi is in a similar situation right now. We got to throw these kids in and see if they sink or swim. They do great for the u21's which is a lesser standard yes but you never truly know if they are going to make it until they are on a premier league pitch. Players raise their game.
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For me, with the likes of Vardy and Smalling doing well. And also Dawson to an extent. Delle Alli coming from league one. It goes to show that these players are being disregarded when in fact they do have something about them.
They might fail Test X and Test Y, or might not have the 'physique' or whatever tests the clubs use to assess these players, but these tests are failing and it means the above players, and possibly Roofe, and maybe soon to be Nabi slip through the net.
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For me, with the likes of Vardy and Smalling doing well. And also Dawson to an extent. Delle Alli coming from league one. It goes to show that these players are being disregarded when in fact they do have something about them.
They might fail Test X and Test Y, or might not have the 'physique' or whatever tests the clubs use to assess these players, but these tests are failing and it means the above players, and possibly Roofe, and maybe soon to be Nabi slip through the net.
would they offer anything less than what we've seen from lambert, what's the point of the academy if we have no intention of using what it produces or is just to benefit others.
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/swansea-city/12091793/Oxford-United-3-Swansea-City-2-match-report-Swans-dumped-out-of-FA-Cup-after-Kemar-Roofe-scores-twice.html
According to this premier league scouts are keeping an eye on Roofe at Oxford. Good to see a product of our academy doing well. But for me this is proof that we don't give our prospects a chance.
Roofe has claimed as much...
http://readwestbrom.com/2016/01/10/ex-albion-attacker-says-never-got-chance/?
Nabi is in a similar situation right now. We got to throw these kids in and see if they sink or swim. They do great for the u21's which is a lesser standard yes but you never truly know if they are going to make it until they are on a premier league pitch. Players raise their game.
I get your sentiment but it's also incredibly hard for most teams in the top flight to break kids through in a successful manner. People have mentioned Jamie Vardy lately who we looked at and declined whilst he was at Fleetwood. The issue is that it took him a good 4 years to get to this level with Leicester, 2 of which were in the championship; and the first year especially he was quite poor and the Leicester fans admittedly didn't rate him.
It's fine to come up like this as a player but in our position, we don't have the time or gamble to predict he will fulfill his potential and make a good premiership player.
For instance, I was saddened when we sold Chris Wood a few years ago as he looked good. But he wasn't good enough, and the sale was ultimately justified as he's clearly a solid championship player but little more. In short, it's hindsight speaking; sometimes kids just slip through the net and go on to be amazing, but most of the time they don't and they're exclusions are justified.
Whilst Roofe may well go on to be great (and I really hope he does), there's a million James Hursts out there for every Berahino. Hurst played once in the premiership aged 18 too and sunk, so I think it's a very hindsight-based argument for keeping kids with a bit of potential.
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It's a sad fact that a) the gulf between U21 and the Premier League is too big, and b) Young players need game time to fully blossom.
Because of 'a', when many players get a shot at the first team, they aren't good enough, and so eventually get let go. It's only when they get a couple of full seasons that you see their full potential. But the Premier League is a cut throat business and you can't afford to give players a run in the team if they aren't yet good enough, or you risk having to carry a player in the team.
Now we seem to be getting better at loaning out our youngsters, even on 1 month youth loans, so hopefully we might see the likes of Leko, Campbell and Roberts scoring lower down the leagues, but I wouldn't be surprised if Adil Nabi is no longer with us at the beginning of next season (He'll be 22 so would take a squad place).
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A total waste of our money if the club isn't using them.
Perhaps we are just a feeder club for the big 4. >:(
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A total waste of our money if the club isn't using them.
Perhaps we are just a feeder club for the big 4. >:(
You can blame the poor rules when it comes to poaching for us losing our most promising youngsters to top clubs for peanuts. How many clubs have more than one or two every couple of seasons break through their youth ranks and into the first team at Premier League level?
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Tyler Roberts has signed a professional contract with the club:
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/albion-west-brom-tyler-roberts-professional-contract-2900604.aspx
Academy scholar has been with Baggies for 10 years
TYLER Roberts has taken the next step in his blossoming Albion career - signing his first-ever professional Baggies contract.
The Academy scholar, who celebrated his 17th birthday on Tuesday, has put pen to paper on a two-and-a-half-year deal, committing his future to The Hawthorns until summer 2018.
He has been with the Club since he was seven.
Roberts has twice been named in the matchday squad, for last season's fixture against Arsenal and the recent home clash with Stoke.
The youngster spoke of his delight, but was also quick to thank the staff who had nurtured and coached him during the last 10 years.
On signing the new deal, Roberts said: "It feels wonderful. It's something I've been working towards since I was seven. To have finally got here is an immense feeling.
"Finally having that sense of achievement is good and being on the bench a couple of times was a great experience for me too.
"We have some great coaches at Academy level. Whether it was doing individual work, advice, coaching...they've been amazing."
Roberts claims his best role is as a 'No.9' or as a wide player.
Asked about the advice he had been given by Academy staff, Roberts continued: "They told me to use this as a stepping stone. To not settle for this, but push myself on and become a regular in the first-team squad.
"I was told to keep doing what I'm doing. If I do then maybe the chances will come. I thank them and also my family."
Academy Manager Mark Harrison praised Roberts' achievement, before challenging him to continue his progress.
"It is a fantastic that we are able to reward a player who has been with us for so many years," he said. "He now becomes a role model for all the kids who start their journey with us.
"Tyler has done it through hard work, perseverance and with support from his family.
"But hopefully this is only a milestone in his journey - Tyler needs to see this as a platform to becoming a regular member of the first-team squad."
Tony Pulis also laid down his own challenges for the youngster, who trained with Wales' senior squad last summer.
"I'm delighted for the lad. He’s a wonderful player, a wonderful talent," said Pulis.
"But this is the first step. What he can't do now is relax or take any steps back. He has to keep striving to improve."
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Congratulations on your first pro' contract Tyler.
Genuinely hope you have a wonderful career and score plenty of goals for the Baggies.
8).
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Great, there does seem to more positivity around the club at the minute, hopefully he will get some minutes on the pitch before the end of the season.
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well done son, we need an example fro the academy for others to emulate,
(sadly someone else has not been the example we hoped for, learn from his mistakes and you will not be far off.)
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Great news, by all accounts he is very highly rated.
Whether its Roberts, Nabi or one of the younger lads can get some first team action this season it will be a huge boost for the academy as following from Berahino, if we have another youngster involved this season the top players in our younger age groups will see there is a path to the first team and although money talks, it may mean we dont lose players to the big boys.
Realistically we probably need 12 points to stay up and there are 17 games left, you would hope we would comfortable by March time so there will be no better time to blood some youngsters.
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Great news, by all accounts he is very highly rated.
Whether its Roberts, Nabi or one of the younger lads can get some first team action this season it will be a huge boost for the academy as following from Berahino, if we have another youngster involved this season the top players in our younger age groups will see there is a path to the first team and although money talks, it may mean we dont lose players to the big boys.
Realistically we probably need 12 points to stay up and there are 17 games left, you would hope we would comfortable by March time so there will be no better time to blood some youngsters.
Agreed, just looked at the fixtures and would like to think we would be safe by March with home games against Villa , Swansea and Palace, and some winnable aways. Soon as we hit that magical 40 , it's time to get Nabi and Roberts invo;ved
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Agreed, just looked at the fixtures and would like to think we would be safe by March with home games against Villa , Swansea and Palace, and some winnable aways. Soon as we hit that magical 40 , it's time to get Nabi and Roberts invo;ved
Through pure maths, I'm hoping we pass the 40 points mark after around 31/32 games, so that's gives us 6 or so games to A) Try to get as high up the table as possible, and b) Blood some of the youngsters into the team
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Agreed, just looked at the fixtures and would like to think we would be safe by March with home games against Villa , Swansea and Palace, and some winnable aways. Soon as we hit that magical 40 , it's time to get Nabi and Roberts invo;ved
Love the sentiment, but isn't every place in the table worth about £1,5m ??
Now put your JP / TP head on and think, +1.5M towards transfer budget or give the kid a run out ?
Answers on a postcard to
Give me the money Tony
c/o Jeremy Peace
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Love the sentiment, but isn't every place in the table worth about £1,5m ??
Now put your JP / TP head on and think, +1.5M towards transfer budget or give the kid a run out ?
Answers on a postcard to
Give me the money Tony
c/o Jeremy Peace
I don't think it needs to be so black and white. We can aim for higher places while still giving youngsters a taste of first team action. THey don't need to start, but just giving them 10 minutes is better than nothing.
In the case of Roberts, he says he's a no.9 or wide player. Is bringing him on when we are chasing a game really going to be detrimental? It's not like he has two left feet - he's clearly rated for a reason!
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In a team sport, with 11 players on the pitch, there should always be enough in the team to accommodate a developing player. The only position this may not be possible is GK.
These are professional footballers, its not like you chucking in a bloke from the pub. If it isn't working out on the pitch that day, then substitute him.
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If some posters are to be believed, we carry Lambert when he plays. How would Roberts be any different? :P
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If some posters are to be believed, we carry Lambert when he plays. How would Roberts be any different? :P
Roberts world be much easier to carry if it came to it, he weighs half as much!! :D
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Love the sentiment, but isn't every place in the table worth about £1,5m ??
Now put your JP / TP head on and think, +1.5M towards transfer budget or give the kid a run out ?
Answers on a postcard to
Give me the money Tony
c/o Jeremy Peace
If one of those kids prove they can hack it in the prem by getting playing time then one less transfer needed maybe. JP would like that
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Does anyone on here go watch the u21s regular?
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Does anyone on here go watch the u21s regular?
Do you still play for the under 11's? Mate? :D
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I'm surprised for such a talent he hasn't signed a much longer contract?
Has leko signed a contract yet?
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I'm surprised for such a talent he hasn't signed a much longer contract?
Has leko signed a contract yet?
don't think Leko is "of age" yet.
For Albion the deal allows them to review the situation when he's 19 or 20, if hes either failed to reach the expectation and released or matched/surpassed it and offered improved terms. I thinks its kind of a good move, shows the club feel he should be doing something by then.
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Love the sentiment, but isn't every place in the table worth about £1,5m ??
Now put your JP / TP head on and think, +1.5M towards transfer budget or give the kid a run out ?
Answers on a postcard to
Give me the money Tony
c/o Jeremy Peace
I would hope we could afford to give him a few ten minute cameo's here and there.
He'll learn a lot more in that ten minutes than he will faffing about in the under 21s league.
I would also hope we're looking to start blooding him in the lower leagues with a loan move. Playing in that sort of intensity will also be more beneficial than a non-competitive reserve league.
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is nabi back at the albion know ??
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is nabi back at the albion know ??
Yep, Adil is back and played last week in the U21's against Arsenal though never really shined. The guy that looked to have a bit of quality was Roberts - i'd be tempted to have him on the bench Tuesday. Leko showed some nice touched but no real end product.
Nabi also has two brothers with us - Samir, aged 18, and Rahis, 16 though not sure how highly they are rated.
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Yep, Adil is back and played last week in the U21's against Arsenal though never really shined. The guy that looked to have a bit of quality was Roberts - i'd be tempted to have him on the bench Tuesday. Leko showed some nice touched but no real end product.
Nabi also has two brothers with us - Samir, aged 18, and Rahis, 16 though not sure how highly they are rated.
I'm sure I read somewhere that Samir is the highly rated one out of them
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Adil Nabi just scored again for the under 21s against Hull in the PL cup , whats hd got to do to get a domestic loan ?!
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West Bromwich Albion â€@WBAFCofficial 22s23 seconds ago
GOAL. Albion U21 1 (A Nabi 48) Hull City U21 2 (Rodgers 58, Olley 68) in the @premierleague Cup #WBA
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I don't know why we're keeping Nabi, Pulis seems to have no interest in using him what with having a 16 year old Roberts on the bench ahead of him last season, and he's presumably not going to be playing in the FA cup game if he's playing tonight. Can't exactly play they youth card, he's 22 next month. Seems best for everyone to let him leave and maybe he can work his way back up like Roofe is doing. Otherwise we're keeping him essentially to be a professional reserve.
Though on a Nabi related note his youngest brother Rahis Nabi was named in the England under 17 squad last week along with Jonathan Leko. Considering Leko's not in the squad tonight I'm guessing he'll be on the bench tomorrow (unless he's injured).
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Adil Nabi just scored again for the under 21s against Hull in the PL cup , whats hd got to do to get a domestic loan ?!
lets put him on the bench and send lambert on loan.
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Adil Nabi just scored again for the under 21s against Hull in the PL cup , whats hd got to do to get a domestic loan ?!
I thought there was an interview with Nabi where basically no-one came in for him this summer on domestic loan, hence he went to India?
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I thought there was an interview with Nabi where basically no-one came in for him this summer on domestic loan, hence he went to India?
Yes there was with Garlick ,hard to believe it isnt it ?
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Re - Nabi. Is it coming to that point that no one came in for a loan because he is 'asian'. This shouldn't matter but is that a reason as he is a decent footballer and is gobsmacking to believe that he is not wanted even by a league 2 club?
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No.
Football is a fickle sport but it is a global sport and actually having an Asian player could unlock new markets for a club.
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No.
Football is a fickle sport but it is a global sport and actually having an Asian player could unlock new markets for a club.
Would be nice if all clubs saw it that positively but I suspect the truth may be otherwise...especially as far as short term loans go.
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Would be nice if all clubs saw it that positively but I suspect the truth may be otherwise...especially as far as short term loans go.
I get that, but it's far-fetched tl suggest the colour of his skin has anything to do with it!
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I get that, but it's far-fetched tl suggest the colour of his skin has anything to do with it!
Given the relative demographics of the UK population unless young Asian men have virtually zero interest in and participation in football you would expect more Asian professional footballers than ones with an Afro-Caribbean background. The fact there are very few and those that there are struggling to find a pathway into the game suggests that football might not have moved on entirely from its earlier preconceptions about racial stereotyping and might still be harbouring a few misguided notions about young Asian players.
I find it hard to believe a player with obvious quality cannot find even a League 2 club to take him for a loan spell.
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Given the relative demographics of the UK population unless young Asian men have virtually zero interest in and participation in football you would expect more Asian professional footballers than ones with an Afro-Caribbean background. The fact there are very few and those that there are struggling to find a pathway into the game suggests that football might not have moved on entirely from its earlier preconceptions about racial stereotyping and might still be harbouring a few misguided notions about young Asian players.
I find it hard to believe a player with obvious quality cannot find even a League 2 club to take him for a loan spell.
I find it hard to believe he wasnt even on the bench for the cup game yesterday. Disgraceful.
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I find it hard to believe he wasnt even on the bench for the cup game yesterday. Disgraceful.
He played in the U21s two days before
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He played in the U21s two days before
90% of the team had played on saturday. No excuse.
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90% of the team had played on saturday. No excuse.
It was actually the day before, can't expect him to feature again. Leko was however in the squad last night
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It was actually the day before, can't expect him to feature again. Leko was however in the squad last night
Thats fair then. Still, if i was Adil i would be thinking what do i need to do to get a game here.
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Thats fair then. Still, if i was Adil i would be thinking what do i need to do to get a game here.
Got to agree Adil is almost 6 months younger than Saido, Where SB could have been a 2 season regular, Adil is struggling for a loan yet alone match time, for his own good the lad needs to move on. (Sad to say it though)
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Not to rear its ugly head again but i honestly think some of it comes down to race.
Thats just my opinion though.
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Not to rear its ugly head again but i honestly think some of it comes down to race.
Thats just my opinion though.
Not one to put the race card forward, but Nabi has scored lots of goals in the U 21's and at the time he went to India on loan, it was said that no clubs from here were keen to loaning him either? I think there must be something missing from his game that deters League 1 or Championship clubs, as his goals at U21 level should at least warrant a loan spell in England.
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Genuinely don't think it's got anything to do with race.
How many foreign players have we got at the Albion and how many are in the game generally?
Don't see how there would be a problem with teams playing a British Muslim.
While I would like to see Nabi break through his progress was hampered by a serious knee injury.
It may just be that those within the game question his desire and ability to transfer those U21 goals into first team goals.
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I know that I will get slaughtered for this, but here goes.
I do believe that there are physiological differences in the different "races" (Caucasian / Afro-caribbean / mongol asian / Aboriginals) that give some groups advantages in certain sports,
How many Afro-caribbean swimming champions have there been?
How many Asian distance runners ?
Why do afro-caribbeans dominate in some sports such as basketball.
I accept this is a sweeping generalisation but I suspect there is hard scientific evidence to back it up, this could explain why there are so few Asians making it in football, there will always of course be exceptions but thats what they will be exceptions, particularly in UK as the game is geared so heavily towards "Big Strong lads who can run and tackle all day long".
Thoughts ?
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I know that I will get slaughtered for this, but here goes.
I do believe that there are physiological differences in the different "races" (Caucasian / Afro-caribbean / mongol asian / Aboriginals) that give some groups advantages in certain sports,
How many Afro-caribbean swimming champions have there been?
How many Asian distance runners ?
Why do afro-caribbeans dominate in some sports such as basketball.
I accept this is a sweeping generalisation but I suspect there is hard scientific evidence to back it up, this could explain why there are so few Asians making it in football, there will always of course be exceptions but thats what they will be exceptions, particularly in UK as the game is geared so heavily towards "Big Strong lads who can run and tackle all day long".
Thoughts ?
I think this sums up my view on the "race" issue.
This stereotyping for the lack of a better word could be argued is even more prevalent in a typical 'Tony Pulis' team. So while it may not be racism it certainly could be called racial profiling.
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I read an article about this in When Saturday Comes a few years ago. Apparently Asian families don't encourage their children into football because it isn't seen as a respectful profession (cricket is, rugby isn't, and so on). And despite the potential rewards, it's a big risk to go for football, and so the children are dissuaded from attempting.
That's why there are so few who come through the academy systems; Zesh Rehman, Michael Chopra, and the Nabi brothers pretty much the only exceptions.
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Personally i think we should we celebrate local talent and hes got to be better than lambert.
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Not to rear its ugly head again but i honestly think some of it comes down to race.
Thats just my opinion though.
Not good enough at the moment, otherwise would of made it, Been in the u21 doing alright but not high class... Needs to find his level lower down the leagues get some football under his belt and see where it takes him from there
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Found this clip on two of the academy prospects - Rahis Nabi (Brother of Adil and Samir) and Marcus Forss.
http://www.snappytv.com/tc/1297643
Thought some may enjoy
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Cheers for that Mark.
They seem a decent pair of lads although young Samir may wish to set his alarm clock a little earlier :).
Good to hear that Saido still stays back for extra training with the U21's from time to time.
;).
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Why is it that we only seem to hear about how good our young strikers are? Don't we have any attacking midfielders that are pushing for the first team?
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Why is it that we only seem to hear about how good our young strikers are? Don't we have any attacking midfielders that are pushing for the first team?
Youmean like Rahis Nabi who is in that video I posted, or Samir Nabi who is supposedly better than Adil was at his age?
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Race? How long was it before some do gooder hippy brought this up. Nabi wasn't good enough. If there was an Indian player good enough every club would want him. In a industry so heavily ruled by money, why would anyone care?
these posts are a classic example of how society has gone. Someone who isn't white fails in something and its a race inquest.
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Nabi is 21. You'd have started to see improvement by now. Plus Campbell scored a quality goal at the weekend, why wouldn't they keep him.
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Nabi was only on the bench for Peterboro, the lad they signed from Spurs started.
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How do we know Nabi hasn't improved ? He was probably a more consistent scorer through the age groups than Saido was which is why a lot are disappointed that he never got a chance. He certainly wasn't helped by last season being pretty much lost with an ACL injury.
It's irrelevant that he was sat on the bench on Saturday...often happens to new signings. Judge his Peterboro' career in 2 years time.
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Nabi is 21. You'd have started to see improvement by now. Plus Campbell scored a quality goal at the weekend, why wouldn't they keep him.
His knee injury that kept him out for a long time hampered him massively and he needed a loan move to a football league club long before he got the one to Delhi Dynamos. For what its worth I expect him to take a while to develop at Peterborough but just getting some game time will help him kick on but it was the right time to let him go to try and have a decent career in the football league somewhere.
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WBA 2-4 Newcastle United
twice came from behind and missed a penalty at 2-2 before conceding twice in last ten mins.
Inexperienced side with Roberts and Spence on the scoresheet for Albion.
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Currently drawing 0-0 vs Rushall Olympic in the last 16 of the Birmingham senior cup. You can get live updates at @ROFC_Matchday (Russell twitter account).
Very young and inexperienced team has started. A Palmer, Z Elbouzedi, S Field, J Smith, B Sweeney, S Nabi, S Donnelan, J Ezewele, D Barbir, G Cleet, R McCourt.
Subs: M Forss, M Hall, P Artymatas, C Scrivens
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Interesting to see the name of Panayiotis Artymatas on the bench. I've looked him up and he is the Cyprus under 17's captain and we signed him in the summer.
As for the rest, I think Leko, R Nabi and T Roberts are all on international duty. Probably also Dool.
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Leko was pulled back from international duty - probably to spend tomorrow night sat on the bench.
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This is worth listening to, a podcast from Richard Garlick talking about the academy.
https://audioboom.com/boos/4154475-albion-news-podcast-3-the-youth-of-today (https://audioboom.com/boos/4154475-albion-news-podcast-3-the-youth-of-today)
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Anyone going to tamworth tonight?
Is it right season ticket holders get in free?
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Anyone going to tamworth tonight?
Is it right season ticket holders get in free?
As long as you have your season ticket with you
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As long as you have your season ticket with you
Cheers Oldbury
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wba reserves playing man utd today and theres a live stream, losing 3-0 at the moment.
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play the wolves tonight, we've hit a bit of a slump after a great start.
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play the wolves tonight, we've hit a bit of a slump after a great start.
Anyone know how we're doing ?
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Anyone know how we're doing ?
0-0 at the moment. Looks a younger side than usual off the WBA twitter, Wolvo have had their keeper sent off on 56th minute and the replacement (whose a midfielder) apparently made a great save against A Samir Nabi free kick.
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0-0 at the moment. Looks a younger side than usual off the WBA twitter, Wolvo have had their keeper sent off on 56th minute and the replacement (whose a midfielder) apparently made a great save against A Samir Nabi free kick.
Thanks for the update
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ended goalless, Albion still in a playoff place still.
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Anyone going up tonight ?
It's at 7pm vs the Vile.
Free entry as per normal for ST holders, £5 adults and £1 kids otherwise, tempted to go as both McMananananannanaman and Pritchard are set to feature as well as Leko
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Anyone going up tonight ?
It's at 7pm vs the Vile.
Free entry as per normal for ST holders, £5 adults and £1 kids otherwise, tempted to go as both McMananananannanaman and Pritchard are set to feature as well as Leko
Yep, working till 6pm tonight so thought I'd take a stroll up to The Hawthorns and have a look.
Interesting to see just how bad their U21s are, if they can't break into their current first team?
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Yep, working till 6pm tonight so thought I'd take a stroll up to The Hawthorns and have a look.
Interesting to see just how bad their U21s are, if they can't break into their current first team?
especially after they beat the first team a while ago!
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winning 1-0 at ht
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Oh dear..Macmaman off for second yellow..simulation. .unfortunately not surprising..
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We just beat Villa 1-0
We had 9 men for a fair while (15 mins approx)
8) :P :-*
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Who scored ? Was someone else sent off as well as McManaman ?
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We just beat Villa 1-0
We had 9 men for a fair while (15 mins approx)
8) :P :-*
Brilliant ;D
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Who scored ? Was someone else sent off as well as McManaman ?
Samir Nabi scored and Callum Jones was sent off for a 2nd bookedable, as was McManaman
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9 men, we only need nine men :P
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Under the kosh for a lot of that game and sat quiet deep. That Traore looks a really good player, beats his man easily with pace and skill, end product not always the best but will only get better.
Pritchard was decent for us, as was Leko. Centre half Donnellan had a good game.
We did well to hang on with 9 men for 15 minutes after a stupid dive from Mcmanaman and a rash tackle when on a yellow from Jones.
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Under the kosh for a lot of that game and sat quiet deep. That Traore looks a really good player, beats his man easily with pace and skill, end product not always the best but will only get better.
Pritchard was decent for us, as was Leko. Centre half Donnellan had a good game.
We did well to hang on with 9 men for 15 minutes after a stupid dive from Mcmanaman and a rash tackle when on a yellow from Jones.
Pritchard show enough to be getting more game time than he currently is?
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Pritchard show enough to be getting more game time than he currently is?
I certainly think so, he looks very good on the ball. Positive, wants to drive it up the pitch, and given his size has a bit about him.
He got subbed off with 5 to go and was visibly angry, Big Dave had to calm him down.
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didnt realise the seals are second in the league, big scalpe then :)
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Samir Nabi sounds keen to get out on loan...lets hope that he gets some interest. As we know Adil didn't get a loan until the India move.
Might Samir get a taste of prem action before the end of the season as Pulis mentioned that one or two others would be getting a taste ?
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Samir Nabi sounds keen to get out on loan...lets hope that he gets some interest. As we know Adil didn't get a loan until the India move.
Might Samir get a taste of prem action before the end of the season as Pulis mentioned that one or two others would be getting a taste ?
Based on last night, I'm not sure.
Went to an evening hosted by Big Dave not so long back , and he was clear that there are 3 talented players that will come through, the rest, well, not sure at all. He mentioned Tyler Roberts and Leko, but said he was keeping the third one quiet. Could be Donnellan the centre half
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I certainly think so, he looks very good on the ball. Positive, wants to drive it up the pitch, and given his size has a bit about him.
He got subbed off with 5 to go and was visibly angry, Big Dave had to calm him down.
I thought he looked lively and technically good.
However, as I have stated on the C M'n thread, I don't think Pritchard releases the ball quick enough either.
Missed a great chance when he had time to pick his spot, and although it shouldn't be the be all and end all given his good technique, he even looked light weight amongst the U21's.
Still, could be worth a shout, especially given any potential fall outs with Sess' and C M'ns clear lack of fitness.
Leko looks good and tricky but currently over elaborates, I'd hope this will change a little with experience. Think he's got a decent future ahead of him though especially once he's filled out a bit. As for those jinking twists and turns, daft as it may sound he may benefit from slightly longer studs.
Agree regarding Traore for them, looks to be very decent.
Think their number 8 was very lucky to stay on the pitch and I also thought the ref' was inconsistent and generally rather sh!te.
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I thought he looked lively and technically good.
However, as I have stated on the C M'n thread, I don't think Pritchard releases the ball quick enough either.
Missed a great chance when he had time to pick his spot, and although it shouldn't be the be all and end all given his good technique, he even looked light weight amongst the U21's.
Still, could be worth a shout, especially given any potential fall outs with Sess' and C M'ns clear lack of fitness.
Leko looks good and tricky but currently over elaborates, I'd hope this will change a little with experience. Think he's got a decent future ahead of him though especially once he's filled out a bit. As for those jinking twists and turns, daft as it may sound he may benefit from slightly longer studs.
Agree regarding Traore for them, looks to be very decent.
Think their number 8 was very lucky to stay on the pitch and I also thought the ref' was inconsistent and generally rather sh!te.
Agreed, Villa were in his ear for most of the game
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I didn't realise this but Sam Field and Tyler Roberts were in the squad that was taken to Man City. We've heard a fair bit about Roberts but not Field. Is he a central midfielder? On mobile so can't link but there's an article about him on the official site
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beaten an Arsenal team containing Jack Wilshire and Serge Gnabry 2-1 with a young team, but have missed the play offs as Blackburn drew with Villa 2-2 to get the last spot.
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Sorry not sure where to post this but at last some good news :P
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/827362960?-11200:789:0
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The newsnow link directs to here, in case people wondered
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/24/chelsea-and-man-city-target-jonathan-leko-signs-new-west-brom-co/?
West Bromwich Albion have secured a major boost for the future by persuading England under-17 international Jonathan Leko to sign a new contract, in a blow to Chelsea and Manchester City.
Leko will officially sign his first professional deal in July, after turning 17 on Sunday, with West Brom determined to prevent another talented teenager from leaving the Hawthorns.
Albion have suffered huge frustration with Premier League clubs poaching their young talents in recent years, after the departure of Isaiah Brown to Chelsea and Jerome Sinclair to Liverpool.
But Leko has agreed a three-year deal and is being tipped to become a bigger star than Saido Berahino, with his reputation already known to the liks of Chelsea, City and Liverpool. Leko made his Premier League debut aged 16 years, 11 months and nine days old in the game at Sunderland earlier this month.
The teenager could even play some part against title-chasing Tottenham Hotspur on Monday evening, with head coach Tony Pulis predicting a bright future for the Congo-born forward.
Pulis, meanwhile, is stepping up his preparations for next season after holding talks with chairman Jeremy Peace.
As revealed by Telegraph Sport, West Brom plan to offer Pulis a new contract in the summer after he guided the club to survival two seasons running. Pulis will have 12 months left on his deal in July.
He said: “I have spoken to the chairman about certain things, about the football club, the training ground and other things.
“That’s what you have to do. You have to try to put foundations down to make the football club better and there are lots of things that we would like to put in place that would help the club push forward.
“The main thing is you need to win games. You need results to keep your job, and if you can do that and give yourself time then you can put things in place that will improve football clubs."
Probable team: Foster; Dawson, McAuley, Evans, Chester; Sessegnon, Fletcher, Yacob, McClean; Rondon, Berahino
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The newsnow link directs to here, in case people wondered
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/04/24/chelsea-and-man-city-target-jonathan-leko-signs-new-west-brom-co/?
West Bromwich Albion have secured a major boost for the future by persuading England under-17 international Jonathan Leko to sign a new contract, in a blow to Chelsea and Manchester City.
Leko will officially sign his first professional deal in July, after turning 17 on Sunday, with West Brom determined to prevent another talented teenager from leaving the Hawthorns.
Albion have suffered huge frustration with Premier League clubs poaching their young talents in recent years, after the departure of Isaiah Brown to Chelsea and Jerome Sinclair to Liverpool.
But Leko has agreed a three-year deal and is being tipped to become a bigger star than Saido Berahino, with his reputation already known to the liks of Chelsea, City and Liverpool. Leko made his Premier League debut aged 16 years, 11 months and nine days old in the game at Sunderland earlier this month.
The teenager could even play some part against title-chasing Tottenham Hotspur on Monday evening, with head coach Tony Pulis predicting a bright future for the Congo-born forward.
Pulis, meanwhile, is stepping up his preparations for next season after holding talks with chairman Jeremy Peace.
As revealed by Telegraph Sport, West Brom plan to offer Pulis a new contract in the summer after he guided the club to survival two seasons running. Pulis will have 12 months left on his deal in July.
He said: “I have spoken to the chairman about certain things, about the football club, the training ground and other things.
“That’s what you have to do. You have to try to put foundations down to make the football club better and there are lots of things that we would like to put in place that would help the club push forward.
“The main thing is you need to win games. You need results to keep your job, and if you can do that and give yourself time then you can put things in place that will improve football clubs."
Probable team: Foster; Dawson, McAuley, Evans, Chester; Sessegnon, Fletcher, Yacob, McClean; Rondon, Berahino
I did post a while ago that he had already agreed a pro contract, same with Tyler Roberts he has got a pro contract too ready to be confirmed.
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does anyone think its a mistake to release u21 top scorer Samir Nabi. 11 years at the club aged 19.
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does anyone think its a mistake to release u21 top scorer Samir Nabi. 11 years at the club aged 19.
Seems one of the better players?
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Seems one of the better players?
Is this confirmed ? If so it may be a side effect of Pulis wanting players to be pushing through younger and if they are not then off they go.
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Is this confirmed ? If so it may be a side effect of Pulis wanting players to be pushing through younger and if they are not then off they go.
yep
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/youngster-departs-the-hawthorns-3140518.aspx
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yep
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/youngster-departs-the-hawthorns-3140518.aspx
Thanks - the weird thing is that the name Nabi seems to have dominated the scoring for the age groups over the last 2 or 3 years and now 2 of them have gone without kicking a ball in the 1st team.
I sense a re-focus in the academy....which may be good as long as we continue to see the best getting their chance. We have to trust the judgement of those making decisions.
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jamie Smith has been promoted to replace Aaron Danks as under 18 coach.
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I see the FA have raided us again for Danks
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I see the FA have raided us again for Danks
Yeah, that's 3 now.... Ashworth was the biggest loss.
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/wba-goalkeeping-trio-sign-new-contracts-rose-ross-keranovic-3163120.aspx
Rose, Ross and Keranovic pen Hawthorns deals
YOUNG goalkeepers Jack Rose, Ethan Ross and Jasko Keranovic have all penned new professional contracts with Albion.
Rose, 21, named regularly as a Baggies substitute over the past 18 months, has signed a one-year deal at The Hawthorns.
The Club have also taken up a one-year option on 19-year-old Ross, who spent time on loan at Worcester City during the 2015/16 campaign.
Keranovic, 18, a Bosnia and Herzegovina youth international, has agreed a one-year deal with a further 12-month option in the Club’s favour.
Meanwhile, fellow young stopper Alex Palmer, who was on the bench for Albion’s 1-1 draw at Tottenham Hotspur in April, will enter the second season of his two-year deal upon his return to pre-season training.
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/wba-professional-contracts-youngsters-albion-baggies-pro-deals-3164350.aspx
EIGHT more of Albion’s promising youngsters have penned new professional deals at The Hawthorns.
Tahvon Campbell, Andre Wright, Shaun Donnellan, Joe Ward and Jack Fitzwater, who all had spells away from the Baggies on loan during the 2015/16 campaign, have signed one-year contracts with a further 12-month option in the Club’s favour.
Kyle Edwards has also agreed a new 12-month deal with a further year option in the Club’s favour, while Dara O’Shea has committed himself to Albion by signing a two-year professional contract.
The Baggies have taken up the one-year option on Kyle Howkins’ deal.
Albion’s Under-21 squad in full for the 2016/17 season:
Ethan Ross
Jasko Keranovic
Alex Palmer
Danny Barbir
Tahvon Campbell
Shaun Donnellan
Kyle Edwards
Zack Elbouzedi
Sam Field
Jack Fitzwater
Kyle Howkins
Callam Jones
Jonathan Leko
Robbie McCourt
Callum Pritchatt
Tyler Roberts
Chay Scrivens
James Smith
Brad Sweeney
Joe Ward
Andre Wright
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If Field & Roberts can get 3+ games each this season that'll be good. Obviously a loan to Good League 1 or Championship club would be good also.
Leko i suspect will be a regular 1st team sub player (without wanting to put too much pressure on him)
If one of the others can come through, I'm especially thinking of Danny Barbir then that would be ace. A match day 18 by the end of the season that has 4 of our accademy players in can only be good for everyone (assuming they are good enough obviously)
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great article as to what goes on at the academy.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/2/838066224?-11200:789:0
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great article as to what goes on at the academy.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/2/838066224?-11200:789:0
Placing players with similar attributes together seems quite similar to what Belgium did with their late developers programme.
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/29908/10328356/kevin-de-bruyne-developed-late-but-would-england-have-the-patience
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Dara O'Shea must be highly thought of to get a 2 year pro deal aged 17 without having set foot in the 1st team squad.
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You might be interested to know that the Academy 2005 Year Group (the younger U11s & the older U10s) have just finished 2nd out of 66 teams from a dozen different countries in a tournament in Monchengladbach over the weekend.
They lost to Borussia Dortmund in the final, their only loss in 13 games, having overcome Cologne, Stuttgart & Eintracht Frankfurt (on penalties) amongst others. Teams finishing below the Baggies include Liverpool (6th), Hertha Berlin, Celta Vigo, Sporting Lisbon, Hamburg & Besiktas.
Great experience for the lads, and to perform well in tournament football at that level in a foreign country speaks volumes for their character & ability.
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The kids to watch are next year's under 16s who will be given scholarship about Xmas. They are the best year group in the country and if we can keep them, will really set the Albion up...
Even their weakest players who gt released, get snapped up by other academies.
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I see we've earned a £1.5m bonus on Kemar Roofe being sold to Leeds.
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Alex Palmer is having a trial with Hibernian in a friendly on Sunday with the prospect of a loan move.
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http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/albion-west-brom-donnellan-palmer-stevenage-hibernian-3174273.aspx
Donnellan off to gain League experience
Promising defender Shaun Donnellan has secured more valuable first team experience with a half-season loan move to Stevenage.
The 19-year-old defender, who signed a new one-year deal with the Baggies this summer, will be at the League Two club until the turn of the year having spent much of the 2015-16 campaign on loan at Worcester City.
Head Coach Tony Pulis is keen for the Club to utilise the loan system in order for Albion's young players to gain as much experience as possible to bolster their first team prospects at The Hawthorns.
Meanwhile, Albion have agreed for 19-year-old keeper Alex Palmer to take part in a trial with Scottish Championship club Hibernian.
The youngster will be given a run-out against Motherwell in a pre-season friendly on Sunday.
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Can someone help me out?
Didn't we have a kid called Mo Sissoko a few years back in the Youth / Under 21 set up? I could swear we did but can find nowt on internet.
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Can someone help me out?
Didn't we have a kid called Mo Sissoko a few years back in the Youth / Under 21 set up? I could swear we did but can find nowt on internet.
Mohammed Saied I think is the player you were thinking of??
Went back to Sweden after us and now plays for Columbus Crew in OOSA
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Can someone help me out?
Didn't we have a kid called Mo Sissoko a few years back in the Youth / Under 21 set up? I could swear we did but can find nowt on internet.
We did indeed. Was highly rated but never managed to break through and moved on. Like most of our kids.
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Can someone help me out?
Didn't we have a kid called Mo Sissoko a few years back in the Youth / Under 21 set up? I could swear we did but can find nowt on internet.
Sure he ended up in Scotland somewhere for a little bit, could be a different one however
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We did indeed. Was highly rated but never managed to break through and moved on. Like most of our kids.
Cheers gents, glad I'm not going mad. I thought he was highly rated as well. Shows how easy it is to fall off the radar and how good you have to be to forge any sort of professional career.
The likes of Wood, Roofe, Mantom etc. are often regarded as failures, but I think any of our academy players who make a living from the game should be considered a success.
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Cheers gents, glad I'm not going mad. I thought he was highly rated as well. Shows how easy it is to fall off the radar and how good you have to be to forge any sort of professional career.
The likes of Wood, Roofe, Mantom etc. are often regarded as failures, but I think any of our academy players who make a living from the game should be considered a success.
to us they are failures because they don't make the first team, but then you realise teams can only have 25 senior players. There are only about 2500 job places in the PL. with less than half of those being first team players. They've done well to get what they have, even at a lower level.
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wasn't it Ibrahim Sissoko and he was related (younger brother I believe) with Mo Sissoko who was at Liverpool at the time.
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wasn't it Ibrahim Sissoko and he was related (younger brother I believe) with Mo Sissoko who was at Liverpool at the time.
Yes that's him. Mo was average at Liverpool then did well in Germany. Ibrahim never went anywhere really.
EDIT:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/w/west_bromwich_albion/4190418.stm
There's the article when we signed him
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We played Birmingham City yesterday in an U21 friendly at the training ground
Score 1-1
We played well in the first half, had many good moves & shots on goal but Birmingham scored just before HT, Nabi equalised midway through the second half from the penalty spot.
Team
Palmer - Sweeney, Howkins, O'Shea, McCourt - Nabi, Ward, Scrivens - Smith, Wright, Campbell
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Video of highlights from the friendly against Blues
http://www.bcfc.com/news/article/2016-17/west-brom-birmingham-city-3207187.aspx
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Video of highlights from the friendly against Blues
http://www.bcfc.com/news/article/2016-17/west-brom-birmingham-city-3207187.aspx
Some poor defending at times but looked decent going forward. Cracking penalty too.
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I'm not sure how the clubs were allocated, but we've been placed in Division 2 of the new Premier League 2 U23 set-up. Clubs are allowed to field a goalkeeper + up to 3 outfield players who are over 23, but they must have been born on or after 1/1/1993. There are 12 teams in each league with a 2-up, 2-down promotion/relegation system between the 2 leagues (using play-offs for the second promotion spot). The 2 divisions are comprised as follows:
Division 1: Arsenal, Chelsea, Derby County, Everton, Leicester City, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Reading, Southampton, Sunderland, Tottenham Hotspur
Division 2: Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Brighton & Hove Albion, Fulham, Middlesbrough, Newcastle United, Norwich City, Swansea City, Stoke City, West Bromwich Albion, West Ham United, Wolverhampton Wanderers
Each club plays all of the others home and away, so there will be 22 league games. There are also new Premier League Cup and Premier League International Cup (which has a Champions League format) competitions, although only 12 of the U23 teams can take part in the latter, which won't include us at present. As people will be aware, the U23 teams from 16 clubs are now also able to take part in the Football League Trophy. As people will know, we've already accepted that invitation, although a number of Prem clubs have declined. I'm sure there will be a pretty close correlation between those clubs who declined the invitation for the Football League Trophy and those who are taking part in the Premier League International Cup!
With the number of competitive games being played by these new U23 teams being greater than the previous U21 set-up, it'll be interesting to see if clubs are less inclined to loan players out to lower league clubs.
Source: Sky Sports (http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11671/10513184/premier-league-2-new-youth-competition-explained)
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Thanks for the info. Bit confused about the 'must have been born on or after 1/1/1993'. I assume that's the cut-off for those players classing as under 23 .....whereas there is no restriction for the 'goal keeper and 3 outfield players who can be over 23 ?? Is that right ?
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Thanks for the info. Bit confused about the 'must have been born on or after 1/1/1993'. I assume that's the cut-off for those players classing as under 23 .....whereas there is no restriction for the 'goal keeper and 3 outfield players who can be over 23 ?? Is that right ?
It's not entirely obvious from the Sky webpage that I got the info from, but the way it's written seems to imply that applies to the keeper and 3 outfield players who can be over 23, i.e. they can't be much over 23. Someone born on 1/1/1993 is now 23 years and 7 months old. The Sky webpage doesn't say if it's a fixed date or if it increases by a year each season.
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It's not entirely obvious from the Sky webpage that I got the info from, but the way it's written seems to imply that applies to the keeper and 3 outfield players who can be over 23, i.e. they can't be me much over 23. Someone born on 1/1/1993 is now 23 years and 7 months old. The Sky webpage doesn't say if it's a fixed date or if it increases by a year each season.
Cheers, I'm assuming it's like the other age groups where players have to be born after a certain date to qualify as under the age whatever the age limit is - so in this case anyone born later than 1/1/93 qualifies as under 23 in this years competition and anyone born before that date is an over age player.
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Albion team v @SwansOfficial in #PL2: Myhill, Gamboa, Fitzwater, O'Shea, Pocognoli, Ward, Smith, Sweeney, McManaman, McCourt, Wright
Albion subs: Rose, Pritchatt, Nabi, Barbir, Elbouzedi
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This has to be good in that it gives game time to 'fringe' players ....how many games have Gamboa and Poc played in the last 2 years ?
Also it must be good that some of the younger lads get experience playing with senior players ....even if some of them are 'bomb squad' members.
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Neil Taylor playing for Swansea? Can only assume he's played few friendliest after Euro16.
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This has to be good in that it gives game time to 'fringe' players ....how many games have Gamboa and Poc played in the last 2 years ?
Also it must be good that some of the younger lads get experience playing with senior players ....even if some of them are 'bomb squad' members.
Apart from Myhill, they're all bomb squad members! If they weren't, some of them would have been on the bench on Saturday, rather than the teenagers Pulis put there in preference. The line-ups on Saturday and yesterday does show how little depth we have in our squad - we don't even have enough in favour senior players to populate a match day 18.
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Just took this off Matt Wison's twitter page, very interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gz0QXzWcm8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gz0QXzWcm8)
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Just took this off Matt Wison's twitter page, very interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gz0QXzWcm8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gz0QXzWcm8)
Nice one and a good idea.
Sam Field comes across as a level headed, confident and mature young man too.
Good to see.
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Apart from Myhill, they're all bomb squad members! If they weren't, some of them would have been on the bench on Saturday, rather than the teenagers Pulis put there in preference. The line-ups on Saturday and yesterday does show how little depth we have in our squad - we don't even have enough in favour senior players to populate a match day 18.
Lets not assume though that teenagers are not good enough to be on the bench on merit.
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Lets not assume though that teenagers are not good enough to be on the bench on merit.
Agreed, must move on from this same old, same old. Alan Hansen's retired, you can win things with kids. Be great if half the England team came from our academy, eh 'Arry?
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Just took this off Matt Wison's twitter page, very interesting.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gz0QXzWcm8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Gz0QXzWcm8)
Was just reading that on Express & Star
West Brom target late developers (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2016/08/18/west-brom-target-late-developers/)
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Had a lad on trial for us from arsenal tonight?
https://arsenalyouth.wordpress.com/2016/08/22/arsenal-youngster-tyrell-robinson-scores-while-on-trial-at-west-bromwich-albion/?
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Had a lad on trial for us from arsenal tonight?
https://arsenalyouth.wordpress.com/2016/08/22/arsenal-youngster-tyrell-robinson-scores-while-on-trial-at-west-bromwich-albion/?
He's a left winger who they want to play left back. Sign him up!!
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Played 5 games for Arsenal u21 last season
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can anyone tell us how I can keep up to date with the scores tonight against the wolves.
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can anyone tell us how I can keep up to date with the scores tonight against the wolves.
Google the clubs twitter , 0-0 so far 2nd half
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winning 1-0
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We are losing 2-1
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3-1 now
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That's a team with no senior Pros in and several of our more talented players have progressed to the 1st team or are out on loan.
I was surprised we took the lead, losing is no shock.
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It was interesting that no members of the bomb squad were in the U23 side tonight. I guess the club didn't want to risk them getting injured in case someone does happen to come in for any of them at the end of the window.
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Sissoko, Chamakh, Morrison, Leko and Wilson all involved tonight.
Anyone going?
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Given the players involved, would expect a win tonight.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CsKyMWwXYAAfH1T.jpg)
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Would have liked to have seen Robson Kanu get some minutes.
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Would have liked to have seen Robson Kanu get some minutes.
Pulis has said he's doing a mini pre season to make sure he's ready properly (or close to it) and less likely to get injured.
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What did I miss? Isn't Roberts at Oxford?
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What did I miss? Isn't Roberts at Oxford?
No he is playing tonight i am at the game,, we are 1-0 up Callam Wilson, a goal at the hawthorns!!
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What did I miss? Isn't Roberts at Oxford?
Nothing, Callum Jones is on loan too at Accrington Stanley. there must be clauses to allow them to participate in U23 games.
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Nothing, Callum Jones is on loan too at Accrington Stanley. there must be clauses to allow them to participate in U23 games.
Yeah, they can be temporarily recalled for U23 games.
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Was Robson-Kanu eligible to play tonight or had we used our full quota of senior players. He certainly needs some match practice
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Our side should be beating a very weak u23 Brighton side by more than 1
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Our side should be beating a very weak u23 Brighton side by more than 1
To be fair to our under 23 team, a lot of the players who played in it last year are now out on loan elsewhere or involved in the first team.
Leko
Field
Roberts
Nabi - gone
Few other lads out on loan at lower league teams.
I imagine our under 23 team is now made up of a lot of under 18s.
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To be fair to our under 23 team, a lot of the players who played in it last year are now out on loan elsewhere or involved in the first team.
Leko
Field
Roberts
Nabi - gone
Few other lads out on loan at lower league teams.
I imagine our under 23 team is now made up of a lot of under 18s.
Roberts and Leko played as did Morrison Sissoko and Chamakh.
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Roberts and Jones are out on what are called youth loans where we can call them back to play in reserves games as and when we want.
Also helps if they aren't getting much playing time where they are they get useful minutes with us.
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anybody know the team that's playing the vile tonight?
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anybody know the team that's playing the vile tonight?
Don't know the actual team but there are scheduled to be five first team squad members in the squad for tonight.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/wba-albion-premier-league-2-villa-brunt-nyom-mcmanaman-3315562.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/wba-albion-premier-league-2-villa-brunt-nyom-mcmanaman-3315562.aspx)
The Vile are starting with Tshibola, Green and Kozak in their 11.
https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2016/09/19/u23-west-brom-team-news (https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2016/09/19/u23-west-brom-team-news)
Went to the clash at the Hawthorns last season and Green looked pretty decent.
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Don't know the actual team but there are scheduled to be five first team squad members in the squad for tonight.
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/wba-albion-premier-league-2-villa-brunt-nyom-mcmanaman-3315562.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/wba-albion-premier-league-2-villa-brunt-nyom-mcmanaman-3315562.aspx)
The Vile are starting with Tshibola, Green and Kozak in their 11.
https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2016/09/19/u23-west-brom-team-news (https://www.avfc.co.uk/News/2016/09/19/u23-west-brom-team-news)
Went to the clash at the Hawthorns last season and Green looked pretty decent.
cheers smethdan, didn't realise brunty was this far back to fitness, not bad at £3 to see this.
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cheers smethdan, didn't realise brunty was this far back to fitness, not bad at £3 to see this.
No worries chap, they should be announcing the teams soon.
WBA twitter account linked below.
https://twitter.com/wba?lang=en-gb&lang=en-gb&lang=en-gb (https://twitter.com/wba?lang=en-gb&lang=en-gb&lang=en-gb)
Would have liked to go to this one but events have conspired against me.
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One down supposedly against the run of play Brunt playing Centre Mid.
edit. 1-1
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Now 2-1 up McManaman from a Brunt corner.
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2-2 >:(
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3- 2 :D Wilson
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HT 3 - 2
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We even gave them a goal lead.
2 - 4 to us now.
I know it's only the subs, but it's still fun to beat them.
I'd take Brunt off now though, no need to rush his knee. I'd like him back to LB come October or so.
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We even gave them a goal lead.
2 - 4 to us now.
I know it's only the subs, but it's still fun to beat them.
I'd take Brunt off now though, no need to rush his knee. I'd like him back to LB come October or so.
Replaced by Smith ;) .
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2-5 now ;D
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Tahvon Campbell with his second.
SOTV 8) .
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Goals galore this week in planet Albion!!
Campbell is banging them in now and I wonder if McManaman will ever get another chance...?
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SOTV 8) . :D
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Replaced by Smith ;) .
I could do this management lark.... :P
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SOTV indeed
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Goals galore this week in planet Albion!!
Campbell is banging them in now and I wonder if McManaman will ever get another chance...?
Given how Stoke are conceding, we really should be attacking them next weekend.
I'm actually looking forward to a game. How odd is that?!
Brilliant for our under 23s to get a game like this under their belts.
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Boing Boing, good win and let's hope they can keep this form going
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Good to see Brunty get some game time.
Campbell seems to be banging in a few goals lately too which is always good.
Did anyone go watch the game? Be interesting to see how the 'senior' lads got on.
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Unreal WBA side tonight vs Stoke, If near the ground well worth a watch
Galloway, Morrison, Leko, Kanu, Saido, Brunt + they have 3 first playing
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Ended up winning 2-1. Saido scored our first to level the game and then Brunt with a free-kick for the winner with both goals coming within a couple of minutes of each other in the second half.
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Good to see brunt getting more action and a goal, might only be for the u23's but it will do him the world of good.
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Does anyone know what's become of McManaman? At what point should we consider looking under the patio?!
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Good win again but was expecting a more convincing scoreline given the respective starting line ups. Question marks over their keeper for both goals as well.
Brunt and Berahino both too good for the U23s.
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Does anyone know what's become of McManaman? At what point should we consider looking under the patio?!
He played last week against Villa U23's and actually scored (one of about ten shots). Not sure why he didn't play last night.
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He played last week against Villa U23's and actually scored (one of about ten shots). Not sure why he didn't play last night.
Only allowed a quota of over 23s. More important for lads involved with first XI to get match fit.
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U23 side have a German centre forward on trial tonight sounds a bit of a beast !!!
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U23 side have a German centre forward on trial tonight sounds a bit of a beast !!!
Guy called Ferdinand Takyi, 22 years old. Last team was FC Oberneuland in the German 5th division and waswith Spartaks in Latvia beforehand. Found this video and if it's the right guy (No. 20) then yeah, he's massive!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDeACGkmqzM
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There's also a vid of him playing for Farnborough! Big unit, be interesting to see how he gets on tonight.
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Under 18 side drawing 0-0 at half time in the Birmingham senior cup away at Sutton Coldfield. Interestingly Cameron Gayle is playing for Sutton, formerly of our academy
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Under 18 side drawing 0-0 at half time in the Birmingham senior cup away at Sutton Coldfield. Interestingly Cameron Gayle is playing for Sutton, formerly of our academy
Lost on penalties.
One of our lads scored a stunning volley - not sure if it was Nabi or Dool. I thought it was Nabi, my son thought it was Dool.
SUTTON out muscled us. WE got into good positions bu didt not pull the trigger.
Elbouzedi created some good opportunities but scorned them. No 17 Bradley came on and looked sharp.
Noone looked particularly destined for the first team but it's a marathon not a sprint.
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Was this played on that funny plastic pitch?
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Was this played on that funny plastic pitch?
3G pitch.
http://www.3gpitchsuttoncoldfield.co.uk/ (http://www.3gpitchsuttoncoldfield.co.uk/)
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Was this played on that funny plastic pitch?
Horrible pitch. Ball was bobbling. Shocking for a 3G. I know Sutton have had the pitch examined.
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I quite liked the pitch in fairness, played on it a good few times last year unless it has seriously deteriorated since then.
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My son played on the pitch at Sutton Town, said he thought it was fine but it was a while ago.
3G pitches in Europe have been linked to cancer (Hodgkin’s lymphoma) due (I believe) to low grade rubber fill ins on the synthetic surface.
I'm told that pitch providers in the UK use different rubber but I cannot comment one way or the other on that one.
My son played at a tournament in Holland earlier this year.
Interestingly, all of the pitches were grass.
There used to be lots of 3G pitches in Holland. :-X .
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/15/why-3g-pitches-are-being-ripped-up-in-holland-over-health-fears/ (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/10/15/why-3g-pitches-are-being-ripped-up-in-holland-over-health-fears/)
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Yes I remember seeing something on the news where the father of a young goalkeeper in this country who was terminally ill was trying to raise the awareness of the potential dangers in these pitches.
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I've installed equipment on these pitches as the crumb was being laid. It sits on the chest for days. I suppose they have to find a use for all the tyres somewhere...but nobody yet understands what side effects breathing in this material will have. Apparently the FA are considering going back to grass for kids. Going to be interesting to see how this pans out.
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I've installed equipment on these pitches as the crumb was being laid. It sits on the chest for days. I suppose they have to find a use for all the tyres somewhere...but nobody yet understands what side effects breathing in this material will have. Apparently the FA are considering going back to grass for kids. Going to be interesting to see how this pans out.
Interesting.. I heard an fa chief on the radio the other day talking about their new initiative to get youngsters playing the right way in England for the future. He said they are focusing on all weather 3g pitches as they improve technical skills and mean less matches are called off in the winter. Wanted pitches all over England in every major city to bring through the next generation of English talent
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losing 1-0 atm against wolves.
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What does anyone know about Harper who was on the bench for the senior team tonight?
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What does anyone know about Harper who was on the bench for the senior team tonight?
All I know is he has been training with the 1st team, has impressed Pulis and travelled with the team a few weeks ago. Is a box to box midfielder I think.
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Got injured in under 23 match couple of weeks ago don`t think to serious
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Got injured in under 23 match couple of weeks ago don`t think to serious
can't have been too serious as he was on our bench on Wednesday
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can't have been too serious as he was on our bench on Wednesday
Played for the U23's against Wolves on Monday night too.
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Sorry got the wrong player was thinking of Kane Wilson :-X
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Close mate of mine is a Mansfield season ticket holder and he is absolutely raving about Kyle Howkins. Says he is too good for them and looks like he should be playing at a higher level. Absolute rock in centre of defence. His words not mine.
http://www.stagsnet.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30610
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2-0 down to the Vile :o
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1-2 now
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3-2 us Berahino twice :o
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3-2 us Berahino twice :o
Sign him up..
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3-2 us Berahino twice :o
No chance there must be an error, he's too fat and can't score :-[ ::)
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3-2 us Berahino twice :o
It's only against championship reserves though ;)
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It's only against championship reserves though ;)
Couldn't beat championship reserves at the weekend to be fair
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latest anyone?
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latest anyone?
still 3-2
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-vs-aston-villa-12428367
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still 3-2
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-vs-aston-villa-12428367
thanks
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3-3
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2 for Saido I see
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2 for Saido I see
I bet billy big bollox is smirking tonight. ;D
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I bet billy big bollox is smirking tonight. ;D
Will probably post something on social media
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This is the B,ham mails timeline on Saidos performance tonight. they couldn't even get the result right.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/866539944?-11200:789:0
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Close mate of mine is a Mansfield season ticket holder and he is absolutely raving about Kyle Howkins. Says he is too good for them and looks like he should be playing at a higher level. Absolute rock in centre of defence. His words not mine.
http://www.stagsnet.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30610
I've seen him play for the reserves a few times. A big unit a proper centre half and looks like he will have a decent future wether he reaches premier level is too early to say but a good prospect
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2 for Saido I see
Well done Saido.
Now #### off out of our club.
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No chance there must be an error, he's too fat and can't score :-[ ::)
He looked massive on the highlights
A first team player with tons of experience in the Premier League scoring twice against some u-23's...yes he must be back to his best :-X
He doesnt look in shape to me whatsoever
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He looked massive on the highlights
A first team player with tons of experience in the Premier League scoring twice against some u-23's...yes he must be back to his best :-X
He doesnt look in shape to me whatsoever
And what's that got to do with my comment just because saido played and your not happy about it? ::)
Does it really hurt you that much to see him in a baggie shirt? :o
He may not look in shape to you, but luckily we have professionals at the club judging the players on fitness and shape etc and not you.
He was called into the squad for that game, he played, ran his backside off for 90mins (according to atleast 2 people ive seen put on here), he got a couple goals... there's no negative there but there's still people like you that only has negative things to say? what a complete joke.
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He looked massive on the highlights
A first team player with tons of experience in the Premier League scoring twice against some u-23's...yes he must be back to his best :-X
He doesnt look in shape to me whatsoever
this was confirmed by somebody i know who went, his words.................he didnt look very f.......g slim to me !!!!
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He looked massive on the highlights
A first team player with tons of experience in the Premier League scoring twice against some u-23's...yes he must be back to his best :-X
He doesnt look in shape to me whatsoever
Where were the highlights out of interest?
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Under 23 highlights on the website now
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Where were the highlights out of interest?
You can see them on the official club website.
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Where were the highlights out of interest?
Here you go if you haven't seen them yet.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/villa-albion-hepburn-saido-berahino--12434206 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/villa-albion-hepburn-saido-berahino--12434206)
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http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/01/10/tony-pulis-turns-up-west-brom-heat-on-rekeem-harper/
"Tony Pulis has urged Albion’s promising youngster Rekeem Harper to take off his gloves and roll up his sleeves.
The Baggies boss has been hugely impressed with the talent he’s found being nurtured in the academy and has already given minutes on the pitch this season to Sam Field, 18, Jonathan Leko, 17, and Kane Wilson, 16.
He named Field, Wilson and 16-year-old Harper on the bench for Saturday’s FA Cup tie with Derby County.
Although none of them were used, Pulis is eager for all three to taste men’s football this season and hopes to send them out on loan.
Harper is just the latest teenager to catch the eye in training.
He first travelled to an away game with the squad in November when the Baggies beat Leicester City at the King Power Stadium, and then he was named on the bench for December’s home win over Swansea.
A former striker, he has been converted to a dynamic box-to-box midfielder versatile enough to play a holding role or behind the striker if required.
Pulis believes Harper has the skill-set necessary to succeed, but now he’s challenged the young midfielder to show some grit and determination to match it.
“Rek has done fantastic,†said Pulis. “He’s a young midfield player who is only 16, but he’s got all the tools to be a player. He’s another one who’s got to take his gloves off and get his hands dirty. Find out what it’s all about.
“As I keep saying, academy football is not just about developing your skills, it’s about learning your trade.
“You don’t learn your trade by having your gloves on all the time and not going out and getting cold.â€
Pulis reckons the best way to do that is to go out on loan to lower league clubs and taste men’s football in a pressurised environment.
He’s hoping the club will do enough business in January to allow him to send the youngsters out on loan.
“If we can bring players in then maybe (we can loan them out),†he said. “At the moment those players are training with us.
“We had three youngsters on the bench on Saturday. If we can get the group that we want, it gives us the option for us to get them out.
“I am really keen to get those kids playing; Sam, Kane and Rekeem.â€
Albion have recalled forwards Tyler Roberts, 17, from Oxford United; Tahvon Campbell, 19, from Yeovil Town and Andre Wright, 20, from Coventry, and now plan to find them new clubs.
Defender Kyle Howkins, 20, has remained at League Two Mansfield Town and played 90 minutes in their 3-0 win over Crewe on Saturday.
Shaun Donnellan, 19, came off the bench for National League side Dagenham & Redbridge in the 89th minute."
Hadn't seen this posted. Would rather Leko stay and get game time but if it's sit on the bench or play in the Championship or League One, then I wouldn't mind them going out on loan.
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http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/01/10/tony-pulis-turns-up-west-brom-heat-on-rekeem-harper/
"Tony Pulis has urged Albion’s promising youngster Rekeem Harper to take off his gloves and roll up his sleeves.
The Baggies boss has been hugely impressed with the talent he’s found being nurtured in the academy and has already given minutes on the pitch this season to Sam Field, 18, Jonathan Leko, 17, and Kane Wilson, 16.
He named Field, Wilson and 16-year-old Harper on the bench for Saturday’s FA Cup tie with Derby County.
Although none of them were used, Pulis is eager for all three to taste men’s football this season and hopes to send them out on loan.
Harper is just the latest teenager to catch the eye in training.
He first travelled to an away game with the squad in November when the Baggies beat Leicester City at the King Power Stadium, and then he was named on the bench for December’s home win over Swansea.
A former striker, he has been converted to a dynamic box-to-box midfielder versatile enough to play a holding role or behind the striker if required.
Pulis believes Harper has the skill-set necessary to succeed, but now he’s challenged the young midfielder to show some grit and determination to match it.
“Rek has done fantastic,†said Pulis. “He’s a young midfield player who is only 16, but he’s got all the tools to be a player. He’s another one who’s got to take his gloves off and get his hands dirty. Find out what it’s all about.
“As I keep saying, academy football is not just about developing your skills, it’s about learning your trade.
“You don’t learn your trade by having your gloves on all the time and not going out and getting cold.â€
Pulis reckons the best way to do that is to go out on loan to lower league clubs and taste men’s football in a pressurised environment.
He’s hoping the club will do enough business in January to allow him to send the youngsters out on loan.
“If we can bring players in then maybe (we can loan them out),†he said. “At the moment those players are training with us.
“We had three youngsters on the bench on Saturday. If we can get the group that we want, it gives us the option for us to get them out.
“I am really keen to get those kids playing; Sam, Kane and Rekeem.â€
Albion have recalled forwards Tyler Roberts, 17, from Oxford United; Tahvon Campbell, 19, from Yeovil Town and Andre Wright, 20, from Coventry, and now plan to find them new clubs.
Defender Kyle Howkins, 20, has remained at League Two Mansfield Town and played 90 minutes in their 3-0 win over Crewe on Saturday.
Shaun Donnellan, 19, came off the bench for National League side Dagenham & Redbridge in the 89th minute."
Hadn't seen this posted. Would rather Leko stay and get game time but if it's sit on the bench or play in the Championship or League One, then I wouldn't mind them going out on loan.
Would imagine Leko is the only one good enough for regular Championship football, League 2 is fine for the rest of them at 16 and 17.
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And what's that got to do with my comment just because saido played and your not happy about it? ::)
Does it really hurt you that much to see him in a baggie shirt? :o
He may not look in shape to you, but luckily we have professionals at the club judging the players on fitness and shape etc and not you.
He was called into the squad for that game, he played, ran his backside off for 90mins (according to atleast 2 people ive seen put on here), he got a couple goals... there's no negative there but there's still people like you that only has negative things to say? what a complete joke.
He is a horrible fat f--- who should never have been allowed to put the shirt on again. In my opinion by letting him do so the club are taking the mick out of the fans!
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Should not be allowed anywhere near the Hawthorns and no it doesn`t hurt
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He is a horrible fat f--- who should never have been allowed to put the shirt on again. In my opinion by letting him do so the club are taking the mick out of the fans!
I agree. He has absolutely no respect for West Bromwich Albion so why should we have any respect for him. As it seems we have a good crop of youngsters progressing nicely at the moment both in our under 23 set up and out on loan doing well, the last thing we need is for these youngsters to have their heads turned and be influenced by Berahino. He is no example to set, he should be nowhere near our under 23 side.
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Should not be allowed anywhere near the Hawthorns and no it doesn`t hurt
Sounds like it ;)
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And what's that got to do with my comment just because saido played and your not happy about it? ::)
Does it really hurt you that much to see him in a baggie shirt? :o
He may not look in shape to you, but luckily we have professionals at the club judging the players on fitness and shape etc and not you.
He was called into the squad for that game, he played, ran his backside off for 90mins (according to atleast 2 people ive seen put on here), he got a couple goals... there's no negative there but there's still people like you that only has negative things to say? what a complete joke.
You are right I can't stand him, can't stand seeing him in an Albion top absolutely not
Pulis also agrees he is not in shape so the club don't think he is fit either where have you been the last 6 months it's common knowledge
I'm an allowed an opinion so I'll state it, this is what the forum is for
Does it hurt you that much that I don't like him??
Your rolling eyes stating that it must be an error he's too fat and can't score has everything to do with my reply....
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You are right I can't stand him, can't stand seeing him in an Albion top absolutely not
Pulis also agrees he is not in shape so the club don't think he is fit either where have you been the last 6 months it's common knowledge
I'm an allowed an opinion so I'll state it, this is what the forum is for
Does it hurt you that much that I don't like him??
Your rolling eyes stating that it must be an error he's too fat and can't score has everything to do with my reply....
So your p*ssed off because he played and scored yet you say he can't play because he's too fat and can't score?
Cue the 'it's u21's he should score, he's fat, I hate him, I want him out our club...' comments... ;D
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So your p*ssed off because he played and scored yet you say he can't play because he's too fat and can't score?
Cue the 'it's u21's he should score, he's fat, I hate him, I want him out our club...' comments... ;D
Just a thought, how much money has TP knocked off the value Sadio by saying he's not fit against saying he's fit but i don't want to play him.
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To be honest I don`t care if he`s fit or not to me he will never be fit enough to wear a Baggies shirt again in my eye`s. Arn`t we the club who for 10 year`s got him to level of getting in the England squad and playing premier league football and what does he do throw`s is dummy out the pram because he can`t get his own way with a move that at the time was not right for club.
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Gents if you want to talk about Berahino in more depth there's a thread for him.
Let's keep this thread to the current batch of Academy players
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Stourbridge central defender Dan Scarr is training with West Brom’s U23s.
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why call them u23s. much prefer the central league
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Here you go if you haven't seen them yet.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/villa-albion-hepburn-saido-berahino--12434206 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/villa-albion-hepburn-saido-berahino--12434206)
The quality of football in that game was awful! They really need to sort out some proper competitive stuff for the youngsters to do, know wonder hardly any make it through in the premier league. Agree Saido looks huge, his first miss sums him up.
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The quality of football in that game was awful! They really need to sort out some proper competitive stuff for the youngsters to do, know wonder hardly any make it through in the premier league. Agree Saido looks huge, his first miss sums him up.
He does look big agreed but he takes his two goals well.
The goal keeping for Villas second is appalling too.
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actually two decent strikes, good composure. OK the standard isnt the same but the lad still has to put them in, and he does.
His first miss was shocking but testament to lack of confidence tbh
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Close mate of mine is a Mansfield season ticket holder and he is absolutely raving about Kyle Howkins. Says he is too good for them and looks like he should be playing at a higher level. Absolute rock in centre of defence. His words not mine.
http://www.stagsnet.net/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=30610
Kyle Howkins has now signed a new two and a half year contract with us.
http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/01/12/young-defender-kyle-howkins-signs-new-west-brom-contract/ (http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/01/12/young-defender-kyle-howkins-signs-new-west-brom-contract/)
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Not sure if mentioned elsewhere, but Tyler Roberts has gone on loan to league 1 Shrewsbury until the end of the season. Hope he does well, I only hear good things about him.
http://www.skysports.com/transfer/news/12691/10732276/west-brom-striker-tyler-roberts-joins-shrewsbury-on-loan
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Andre Wright's loan move to Yeovil has been cancelled due to playing for two clubs already this season :
West Bromwich Albion have criticised "unclear" rules for the EFL Trophy after striker Andre Wright's loan move to Yeovil Town fell through.
The 20-year-old played for West Brom's Under-21 side in the EFL Trophy in August before a loan spell at Coventry.
His move to Yeovil for the rest of the season had been announced on Tuesday.
But players can only appear for two clubs in one season and West Brom say the EFL deems the Trophy game to be a first-team fixture.
"It's a great shame because it would have been another excellent development opportunity for Andre," Albion director of football administration Richard Garlick told the club website.
"At the time of Andre's Trophy appearance, the rules were unclear regarding whether this was designated a first-team or Under-23 match. We had not had the approach from Coventry at that point."
A statement from Yeovil said they were "disappointed to miss out on the opportunity to work with Wright but wish him all the best for the remainder of the season".
An EFL spokesman told BBC Sport that the Trophy has "always been" a first-team competition and therefore subject to Fifa regulations.
"Therefore, the EFL has no option but to reject the registration for non-compliance, but shares the frustration of both clubs," he added.
What do the Fifa rules say?
Section five, clause three of Fifa's regulation on status and transfer of players states: "Players may be registered with a maximum of three clubs during one season. During this period, the player is only eligible to play official matches for two clubs.
"As an exception to this rule, a player moving between two clubs belonging to associations with overlapping seasons (i.e. start of the season in summer/autumn as opposed to winter/spring) may be eligible to play in official matches for a third club during the relevant season, provided he has fully complied with his contractual obligations towards his previous clubs."
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Thought it was worth saying that Sam Field looked decent when he came on.
Put in a great tackle when called upon.
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Good to see him get some game time.
Hope TP gives the lads more time has the season rolls on.
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Youngster been talked about in the press, brought him from Yeovil, apparently very highly thought of in the youth. Anybody give me a run down of him, is he impressing in the youth set up. Rakheem Harper and Kane Wilson are others heard good things about, Tahvon Campbell as well. Obviously Tyler Roberts is impressing. Future is looking good with our youngsters. Credit to the youth set up of the club. ;)
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Tyler Roberts scored again today
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Tyler Roberts scored again today
Can we recall him?! May need some unpredictability up top!
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Can we recall him?! May need some unpredictability up top!
Could do with him as the expected striker problem comes home to roost now Rondons form as gone and we have no real quality options at this level.
No real surprise to most of us.
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Andre Wright having a trial at Brighton with hopes of a permanent move.
Good luck Andre!
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Goalkeeper Jack Rose has left the club. No mention of any club yet.
1/2 Big thank you to everyone @WBA for the last 12 years I've had some great experiences,memories and enjoyed every minute of it.. 2/2 but it's now time to start a new chapter for me and get first team football at another club âš½ï¸ #wba #newchapter
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Goalkeeper Jack Rose has left the club. No mention of any club yet.
1/2 Big thank you to everyone @WBA for the last 12 years I've had some great experiences,memories and enjoyed every minute of it.. 2/2 but it's now time to start a new chapter for me and get first team football at another club âš½ï¸ #wba #newchapter
Was supposed to be going to Peterborough up until last week , change at their end.
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Having looked at the team sheets on the new web site I noticed that Kane Wilson, Leko, Field and Harper all feature as members of the first team squad.
Just wondered if anyone knows what's happening/not happening regarding Danny Barbir, the American lad we signed from Manchester City. There was a bit of noise surrounding him at the time and just wondered whether anyone has any news of release/potential loan status.
He's 19 now, featured in ten EPL2 fixtures last season and to my knowledge has not been out on loan, something which TP is very keen on for all of our youngsters. His twitter account still lists him as being an Albion player but I have seen no mention of him anywhere of late.
Not stalking the lad but I'd be interested in any up to date news as he appeared to have everything going for him.
End note: 6ft 3+, left footed and decent on the ball.
Edit: he doesn't feature in the EPL2 squad either.
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Saw someone on twitter the other week say Barbir had been let go but not sure where they got the information from.
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Saw someone on twitter the other week say Barbir had been let go but not sure where they got the information from.
Cheers BH, I'll keep a look out 8) .
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Cheers BH, I'll keep a look out 8) .
Being reported in brum mail that 14 of our youngsters have been released, Barbir one of them
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Being reported in brum mail that 14 of our youngsters have been released, Barbir one of them
Yes mate, just read that.
Having a bit of a spring clean by the looks of things.
Be interesting to see what careers any of them go on to have.
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-release-14-part-13146658 (http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-release-14-part-13146658)
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Barbir was highly-rated when he joined us, surprised that he was released by us so early.
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thought we had high hopes with Rose as a keeper who's also been released.
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it's getting really tough for these lads....seems they've got to be pretty near the squad / team at 18 or they'll be off
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From what i have, and reports read on them im not suprised by a single of them being released,
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thought we had high hopes with Rose as a keeper who's also been released.
I think it was more his decision so he could go and get some games under his belt
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I think there are a number of factors in play here. Firstly have a lot of talent in the younger age groups which we are keen to push through by playing up a level and to do this we have to free up spaces on those squads.
Secondly we are raising the standards and we expect players to be ready for Premier League football at the age of 20/21 I think in the past some of these lads would have got contracts until they were that age and then be moved on when they couldn't make the final step to 1st team football. We are now making that decision earlier in their career.
The only two names that are slightly surprising are Jack Rose and Danny Barbir. It seems that Rose wanted to leave in pursuit of better opportunities so maybe that isn't entirely our decision.
Danny Babir was seen as a bit of a coup when we picked him up from Man City. Quite what has happened here but for whatever reason he hasn't developed as we would have hoped, one factor is he has played a lot of US youth football which doesn't necessarily dovetail with the English season so he hasn't been available as much as he should have been.
Equally he was exceptionally tall for his age and as this physical advantaged has lessened as he has progressed through the age groups and maybe he has been exposed as a bit of a bully and hasn't been able to adjust to playing against players who aren't intimidated by his physique.
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0-0 for U23s v Stourbridge
http://www.stourbridgefc.com/news/wba-u23-0-stourbridge-0-1868273.html
https://mobile.twitter.com/StourbridgeFC?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
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All very good saying how bright our future youngsters are and mentioning the players who've come through the academy into the first team but how many are still here.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/893133774?-11200:789:0
if we are going to nurture them into top players then use them or its a waste of resources.
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All very good saying how bright our future youngsters are and mentioning the players who've come through the academy into the first team but how many are still here.
http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/893133774?-11200:789:0
if we are going to nurture them into top players then use them or its a waste of resources.
The cynic in me says that story has been released as a positive distraction by the club. E.g. don't worry about the lack of signings we'll be making or players falling out with the manager, we've got loads of good talent here already to use instead.
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The academy is becoming more important to the club I have seen another article which says that the new board is much more interested in the academy. With regard to article you have to remember who is being interviewed i.e Steve Hopcroft who is the guy who has to pitch our academy against all the other club's academies and from a parents point of view the fact that our academy graduates get pro contracts somewhere even if it isn't the Albion is vitally important.
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Anyone going to see the U23's v Rhyl tomorrow?
Well, pretty much the youth team squad probably :) .
Rhyl lost 1-2 v Liverpool U23's to a side featuring Yan Dhanda on Wednesday night.
http://www.rhylfc.co.uk/Matchreport.aspx?id=111404 (http://www.rhylfc.co.uk/Matchreport.aspx?id=111404)
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As an aside our U15's reportedly won a tournament over in Thailand yesterday.
Nothing on the O/S though.
If so then well done to the lads.
COYB 8) .
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We could have a special group of players coming through the under 14 15 16 youth teams hope we can keep hold of them as they are winning some seriously tournaments against top European teams
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Anyone going to see the U23's v Rhyl tomorrow?
Well, pretty much the youth team squad probably :) .
Rhyl lost 1-2 v Liverpool U23's to a side featuring Yan Dhanda on Wednesday night.
http://www.rhylfc.co.uk/Matchreport.aspx?id=111404 (http://www.rhylfc.co.uk/Matchreport.aspx?id=111404)
Is that a no then folks ;D ?
Can't make La Coruna, so Rhyl it is.
COYB 8) .
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Is that a no then folks ;D ?
Can't make La Coruna, so Rhyl it is.
COYB 8) .
I know your not a fair weather supporter Dan but its ****ing down in north wales and is likely all day. keep your shekels dry for a better day elsewhere.
or alternatively make sure you pack your yellow wellies. ;D
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A little bit late, but earlier in the week the U18s and 23s spent the day getting beasted in the name of teamwork (my mate was one of the instructors)
https://www.facebook.com/outdoortrainingcentre/posts/1878866552371044
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Just seen the youth team at Brum airport; any ideas where they are off?
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Marc Wilson is with them flying to Prague....
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Just seen the youth team at Brum airport; any ideas where they are off?
Oficial twitter says U23's are heading out to Czech Republic (Czechia I think it is now?).
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any links to watch today's game?
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Sorry only have this one from the E and S
http://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/aston-villa-u23-vs-west-13476692
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Birmingham Mail not E and S :/
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1-1 atm,we just equalised.
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Big Bo in goal. Stealing a living that bloke
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Lost 3-1 :'(
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Under 23's playing at home tonight with Gibbs set to be in the team. Does anyone know if the match is open to the public and if so how much it is?
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Under 23's playing at home tonight with Gibbs set to be in the team. Does anyone know if the match is open to the public and if so how much it is?
Free for season-ticket holders.
£5 adults and £1 concessions.
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G-Mac, Yacob, Burke and Field also supposedly involved.
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1-0 up half time v Walsall in cup
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1-0 up half time v Walsall in cup
1-1
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1-1
3-1 down now
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Walsall were being offered at 4/5 to win and once i saw the team we put out it was near certain.
Very easy money.
It's a shame for the guys left that all the good ones go out on loan. It must be very hard to motivate the left behind. No wonder they lose alot at the moment.
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I dont think it's a motivation issue, I think because we have so many out on loan, it means that players are having to play above their age group. We are putting very young sides out in the u23/u18s at the minute.
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I dont think it's a motivation issue, I think because we have so many out on loan, it means that players are having to play above their age group. We are putting very young sides out in the u23/u18s at the minute.
I agree with this, the XI today averaged just over 18 years of age with the GK being the only one over 20.
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Walsall were being offered at 4/5 to win and once i saw the team we put out it was near certain.
Very easy money.
It's a shame for the guys left that all the good ones go out on loan. It must be very hard to motivate the left behind. No wonder they lose alot at the moment.
Was 11/10 earlier in the day, Very easy mone :D
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Non of the unders doing anything special either
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today's lineup vs Wolves
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Dk0SGyNXoAAbe5E.jpg:large)
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is there any point in throwing money into a scheme that delivers so little.
would you sign for Albion if you was a youngster? knowing there's little opportunity for 1st team outings.
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is there any point in throwing money into a scheme that delivers so little.
would you sign for Albion if you was a youngster? knowing there's little opportunity for 1st team outings.
The ones who are seen as promising enough have gotten loan deals. Fitzwater has played a lot for Walsall. Wilson has had a lot of game time for them also (albeit from the bench mostly). O'Shea has become an ever present in Exeters back line.
The youth have had more opportunities in the cup already then they would have had under any of the previous managers. Leko needs a loan to league one. Edwards also unless we are going to give him game time.
Field might/should get his chance now Livermore is suspended. However if Moore sees Harper as ahead of him. Then field also needs a loan.
Our under 23s is usually a very young team as the promising players leave on loan and we promote within.
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is there any point in throwing money into a scheme that delivers so little.
would you sign for Albion if you was a youngster? knowing there's little opportunity for 1st team outings.
Yes and No.
Granted there aren't many players who have made the step up from academy to first team regulars, but Leko, Field, Edwards, Harper are all on pro contracts (picking up decent money). Fitzwater, O'Shea, Wilson are getting game time.
If I was a youngster I would still be attracted by coming to our academy, if you look at it from the outside, there are 3/4 youngsters constantly in or around the first team squad (granted not getting minutes). Majority of our youth players do also leave to get a solid career playing in the lower leagues, i.e Mantom, Roofe left for lower leagues and proved himself, same with Wood.
Our academy is no worse than anyone elses. Look at Chelsea's academy, they send approx. 35-40 players out on loan every year and the likelihood is none of them will play for the first team. They are low on striker options yet Abraham is playing championship football. Hudson Odoi is one of the highly rated youngsters yet doesn't make the bench, you can even look as far as Loftus Cheek who isn't getting many starts.
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is there any point in throwing money into a scheme that delivers so little.
would you sign for Albion if you was a youngster? knowing there's little opportunity for 1st team outings.
Yes, we have a great reputation of turning out players to the lower leagues and the occasional gem gets produced.
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The one that confuses me the most is Kyle Edwards.
Was arguably our best player in pre season and looked ready to make the step up.
Looked tidy in the cup games, got himself some first team minutes at RWB and looked solid enough to help out as and when needed, doesn't seem to have featured even on the bench since then.
Seems a strange one.
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The one that confuses me the most is Kyle Edwards.
Was arguably our best player in pre season and looked ready to make the step up.
Looked tidy in the cup games, got himself some first team minutes at RWB and looked solid enough to help out as and when needed, doesn't seem to have featured even on the bench since then.
Seems a strange one.
Not strange mate, criminal. As supporters do you think that we should be given some explanation as to why he, and Harper, and Field have been overlooked, when so many senior players have offered nothing from the bench, and indeed when selected to start.
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I'd certainly rather see someone like Harper, Field or Edwards used from the bench than Wes Hoolahan. For me Hoolahan has offered absolutely nothing since he's been here, is past his best and isn't even our player really. He should be released.
With Livermore now suspended I'd like to see Harper replace him as he has the physicality we will lack without Livermore. Don't think it will happen though.
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I'd certainly rather see someone like Harper, Field or Edwards used from the bench than Wes Hoolahan. For me Hoolahan has offered absolutely nothing since he's been here, is past his best and isn't even our player really. He should be released.
With Livermore now suspended I'd like to see Harper replace him as he has the physicality we will lack without Livermore. Don't think it will happen though.
Perfect game for him to start is in the cup against Wigan, then give him the game that Livermore misses.
Wont happen though, I expect the midfield will be Morrison Barry Phillips when Livermore is missing.
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The club will keep the academy as the players who we sell on for small fees will no doubt have sell on clauses just in case they make it, those clauses will pay for the academy to keep going in the hope that we do find that gem somewhere.
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The club will keep the academy as the players who we sell on for small fees will no doubt have sell on clauses just in case they make it, those clauses will pay for the academy to keep going in the hope that we do find that gem somewhere.
100%.
You only have to look at a few names littered around the leagues to show that the academy is working and it is producing talented players. (whether they get game time with us is down to whoever is the head coach at the time).
Izzy Brown
Berahino - the fee we received has justified the use of the academy.
Yan Dhanda - Swansea
Kemar Roofe
Chris Wood.
Have all made a career from our academy, add to that Fitzwater whos now had two solid years in league 1, amongst other names all with successful loans (Edwards, O'Shea).
If they don't make it at the Albion, but get moved on for nominal fees, it keeps the academy a float and worthwhile.
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100%.
You only have to look at a few names littered around the leagues to show that the academy is working and it is producing talented players. (whether they get game time with us is down to whoever is the head coach at the time).
Izzy Brown
Berahino - the fee we received has justified the use of the academy.
Yan Dhanda - Swansea
Kemar Roofe
Chris Wood.
Have all made a career from our academy, add to that Fitzwater whos now had two solid years in league 1, amongst other names all with successful loans (Edwards, O'Shea).
If they don't make it at the Albion, but get moved on for nominal fees, it keeps the academy a float and worthwhile.
Plus Romaine Sawyers who we are now being linked with to resign and Tyler Roberts
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One thing i do think is a myth about Darren Moore is he wont use the young players, he will, Harvey Barnes and Tosin play pretty much every game and i am pretty sure Holgate will play most games too, they are all young players, so if your good enough, you will play.
I think that probably suggests that he doesnt think our own crop of youngsters are good enough or not better than the current first teams which is fair enough.
Moore would want our own youngsters in more than anybody, he is a local bloke, knows what it means to fans to have 'one of our own', he has worked with them at youth level, managed them into the senior setup, gave them preseason and has come to the conclusion that they arent upto standard (yet)
As fans we are desperate for our own youngsters to come through, but there is a big difference between signing your first couple of contracts to becoming a fully fledged footballer, its okay doing it in front of 50 people for the under 23's or now and again at Cradley Town in the Birmingham senior cup, the real challenge when you sign pro is in training everyday, competing with somebody for your shirt, having thousands of people pay hard earned money and giving their often unpleasant opinions on matchdays at you.
Joey Barton said when he was at QPR and they had a decent youth team, he went into them, asked who the centre midfielder was, he went upto him and said me and you are now competing for a shirt and that the lad had better be prepared to work harder, train harder and fight harder to get it off him because this was his living, the lad went on to do nothing in the game along with most of that highly rated youth team.
I was lucky enough many moons ago to be an apprentice footballer, i didnt ever really get that close to the first team (only by default on the odd occasion) but there were lads loads better than me, who you thought were guarenteed to 'make it', who did sign pro, who were in and around the first team but when push come to shove they just didnt have the mentality to go on and force their way in, the biggest step is from signing a professional contract to becoming a professional footballer. Through work i see plenty of young pro's at clubs all over the country and there are many who are just happy to say they are pro footballers without ever playing any games (not saying Albions youngsters are like that as i havent had anything to do with them)
Its ok saying give them a chance but if they arent upto standard then you can ruin their future careers and cost the team, as stated the reasons above, Moore knows more about our youngsters than anybody, I am sure he would rather of saved the wages on the likes of squad players like Hoolahan, Sako and Mears and used the funds elsewhere but he sees our youngsters everyday and has decided that right now they arent good enough.
I hope if nothing else they are loaned out this month, i will be critical of Moore if they arent as judging by his squad selections (Harper gets in but how much of that is he is highly rated or how much he fills the academy player quota we dont know, the fact he never gets on suggests its quota thing) Moore doesnt think they are good enough so dont keep them at the club with no intention of playing them.
I am not sure Leko will make it with us at all, he made his debut three seasons ago and hasnt kicked on, at the time he was exciting as he was tricky and skilful but had no end product, the fact he hasnt got near the team often since and also had his loan away cancelled early suggests he still hasnt added that end product.
Burke is similar, he burst onto the scene 3 or 4 years but has still yet to start more than 20 games in his whole career. I think like many youngsters over the years he burst on the scene and took everyone by surprise and did well and got a big money move. The germans are very much into tapping into British talent at the moment, the worry would be they cut their losses and gave up on him in less than a year. Since three Albion managers have chose not to use him, from what i have seen in his brief appearances there is nothing that has made me think he deserves a chance, he is quick and strong but not really seen much else. I think he needs to go on loan to a club where the team is setup to suit him, maybe even drop to league one, play reguarly, learn to play a role, get his confidence back, and see what happens.
Field i think could come into our team now and wouldnt look out of place but also wouldnt standout, i think he will have a good steady career as a championship player, maybe lower league premier at the best, i think with Livermore now banned for 4 games if Field cannot get any minutes then he needs to ask to leave for his own good.
I havent really seen enough of Harper, Fitzwater or Wilson to comment, but Edwards is the one who has stood out to me. I think all our younger players will have careers in football, they obviously are talented to get to where they are now but i have a feeling only one maybe two will have it at the Albion. Not many of our youngsters have gone onto better things, most have had to take a step or two down to come back and i think that will be the case with most of ours (would love to be proved wrong and they all become Albion legends!)
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One thing i do think is a myth about Darren Moore is he wont use the young players, he will, Harvey Barnes and Tosin play pretty much every game and i am pretty sure Holgate will play most games too, they are all young players, so if your good enough, you will play.
I think that probably suggests that he doesnt think our own crop of youngsters are good enough or not better than the current first teams which is fair enough.
Moore would want our own youngsters in more than anybody, he is a local bloke, knows what it means to fans to have 'one of our own', he has worked with them at youth level, managed them into the senior setup, gave them preseason and has come to the conclusion that they arent upto standard (yet)
As fans we are desperate for our own youngsters to come through, but there is a big difference between signing your first couple of contracts to becoming a fully fledged footballer, its okay doing it in front of 50 people for the under 23's or now and again at Cradley Town in the Birmingham senior cup, the real challenge when you sign pro is in training everyday, competing with somebody for your shirt, having thousands of people pay hard earned money and giving their often unpleasant opinions on matchdays at you.
Joey Barton said when he was at QPR and they had a decent youth team, he went into them, asked who the centre midfielder was, he went upto him and said me and you are now competing for a shirt and that the lad had better be prepared to work harder, train harder and fight harder to get it off him because this was his living, the lad went on to do nothing in the game along with most of that highly rated youth team.
I was lucky enough many moons ago to be an apprentice footballer, i didnt ever really get that close to the first team (only by default on the odd occasion) but there were lads loads better than me, who you thought were guarenteed to 'make it', who did sign pro, who were in and around the first team but when push come to shove they just didnt have the mentality to go on and force their way in, the biggest step is from signing a professional contract to becoming a professional footballer. Through work i see plenty of young pro's at clubs all over the country and there are many who are just happy to say they are pro footballers without ever playing any games (not saying Albions youngsters are like that as i havent had anything to do with them)
Its ok saying give them a chance but if they arent upto standard then you can ruin their future careers and cost the team, as stated the reasons above, Moore knows more about our youngsters than anybody, I am sure he would rather of saved the wages on the likes of squad players like Hoolahan, Sako and Mears and used the funds elsewhere but he sees our youngsters everyday and has decided that right now they arent good enough.
I hope if nothing else they are loaned out this month, i will be critical of Moore if they arent as judging by his squad selections (Harper gets in but how much of that is he is highly rated or how much he fills the academy player quota we dont know, the fact he never gets on suggests its quota thing) Moore doesnt think they are good enough so dont keep them at the club with no intention of playing them.
I am not sure Leko will make it with us at all, he made his debut three seasons ago and hasnt kicked on, at the time he was exciting as he was tricky and skilful but had no end product, the fact he hasnt got near the team often since and also had his loan away cancelled early suggests he still hasnt added that end product.
Burke is similar, he burst onto the scene 3 or 4 years but has still yet to start more than 20 games in his whole career. I think like many youngsters over the years he burst on the scene and took everyone by surprise and did well and got a big money move. The germans are very much into tapping into British talent at the moment, the worry would be they cut their losses and gave up on him in less than a year. Since three Albion managers have chose not to use him, from what i have seen in his brief appearances there is nothing that has made me think he deserves a chance, he is quick and strong but not really seen much else. I think he needs to go on loan to a club where the team is setup to suit him, maybe even drop to league one, play reguarly, learn to play a role, get his confidence back, and see what happens.
Field i think could come into our team now and wouldnt look out of place but also wouldnt standout, i think he will have a good steady career as a championship player, maybe lower league premier at the best, i think with Livermore now banned for 4 games if Field cannot get any minutes then he needs to ask to leave for his own good.
I havent really seen enough of Harper, Fitzwater or Wilson to comment, but Edwards is the one who has stood out to me. I think all our younger players will have careers in football, they obviously are talented to get to where they are now but i have a feeling only one maybe two will have it at the Albion. Not many of our youngsters have gone onto better things, most have had to take a step or two down to come back and i think that will be the case with most of ours (would love to be proved wrong and they all become Albion legends!)
Brilliant post and very true of our current situation.
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The treatment of Field is a bit puzzling. He keeps getting contract extensions which certainly suggests he's rated. He got more of a look-in under Pulis in the prem (think 3 games early in the season) and again under Megson ...and didn't look out of place.
This year he's had the misfortune of being plunged into the Derby game when we were still 3-5-2 and our two central midfielders were overrun by Derby.
I've also noticed he frequently appears in club promotional photos and videos as if to display that we have a young local lad on the scene. It's difficult to say whether if he'd appeared in half dozen or so games this year, he'd have done any better or worse than the others used but at least he'd have the experience under his belt.
Edwards did well against Reading and has since disappeared. I'd love to know what DMs thinking or plan is for these lads.
Also, I assume Harper still hasn't signed a new deal ?
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Moore clearly doesn't rate our youngsters so they should be put out on loan to get valuable experience. Field, Leko and Burke are capable of playing championship football and should only be allowed to leave for this league or in Ollys case Celtic who have top coach who would invest time with the player.
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The treatment of Field is a bit puzzling. He keeps getting contract extensions which certainly suggests he's rated. He got more of a look-in under Pulis in the prem (think 3 games early in the season) and again under Megson ...and didn't look out of place.
This year he's had the misfortune of being plunged into the Derby game when we were still 3-5-2 and our two central midfielders were overrun by Derby.
I've also noticed he frequently appears in club promotional photos and videos as if to display that we have a young local lad on the scene. It's difficult to say whether if he'd appeared in half dozen or so games this year, he'd have done any better or worse than the others used but at least he'd have the experience under his belt.
Edwards did well against Reading and has since disappeared. I'd love to know what DMs thinking or plan is for these lads.
Also, I assume Harper still hasn't signed a new deal ?
As 79 says, the Livermore ban will be the acid test. If neither he nor Harper get a look in, beyond the cup, then they may as well go out. Just hope it's not Brunt who is preferred in CM :(
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One thing i do think is a myth about Darren Moore is he wont use the young players, he will, Harvey Barnes and Tosin play pretty much every game and i am pretty sure Holgate will play most games too, they are all young players, so if your good enough, you will play.
I think that probably suggests that he doesnt think our own crop of youngsters are good enough or not better than the current first teams which is fair enough.
Moore would want our own youngsters in more than anybody, he is a local bloke, knows what it means to fans to have 'one of our own', he has worked with them at youth level, managed them into the senior setup, gave them preseason and has come to the conclusion that they arent upto standard (yet)
As fans we are desperate for our own youngsters to come through, but there is a big difference between signing your first couple of contracts to becoming a fully fledged footballer, its okay doing it in front of 50 people for the under 23's or now and again at Cradley Town in the Birmingham senior cup, the real challenge when you sign pro is in training everyday, competing with somebody for your shirt, having thousands of people pay hard earned money and giving their often unpleasant opinions on matchdays at you.
Joey Barton said when he was at QPR and they had a decent youth team, he went into them, asked who the centre midfielder was, he went upto him and said me and you are now competing for a shirt and that the lad had better be prepared to work harder, train harder and fight harder to get it off him because this was his living, the lad went on to do nothing in the game along with most of that highly rated youth team.
I was lucky enough many moons ago to be an apprentice footballer, i didnt ever really get that close to the first team (only by default on the odd occasion) but there were lads loads better than me, who you thought were guarenteed to 'make it', who did sign pro, who were in and around the first team but when push come to shove they just didnt have the mentality to go on and force their way in, the biggest step is from signing a professional contract to becoming a professional footballer. Through work i see plenty of young pro's at clubs all over the country and there are many who are just happy to say they are pro footballers without ever playing any games (not saying Albions youngsters are like that as i havent had anything to do with them)
Its ok saying give them a chance but if they arent upto standard then you can ruin their future careers and cost the team, as stated the reasons above, Moore knows more about our youngsters than anybody, I am sure he would rather of saved the wages on the likes of squad players like Hoolahan, Sako and Mears and used the funds elsewhere but he sees our youngsters everyday and has decided that right now they arent good enough.
I hope if nothing else they are loaned out this month, i will be critical of Moore if they arent as judging by his squad selections (Harper gets in but how much of that is he is highly rated or how much he fills the academy player quota we dont know, the fact he never gets on suggests its quota thing) Moore doesnt think they are good enough so dont keep them at the club with no intention of playing them.
I am not sure Leko will make it with us at all, he made his debut three seasons ago and hasnt kicked on, at the time he was exciting as he was tricky and skilful but had no end product, the fact he hasnt got near the team often since and also had his loan away cancelled early suggests he still hasnt added that end product.
Burke is similar, he burst onto the scene 3 or 4 years but has still yet to start more than 20 games in his whole career. I think like many youngsters over the years he burst on the scene and took everyone by surprise and did well and got a big money move. The germans are very much into tapping into British talent at the moment, the worry would be they cut their losses and gave up on him in less than a year. Since three Albion managers have chose not to use him, from what i have seen in his brief appearances there is nothing that has made me think he deserves a chance, he is quick and strong but not really seen much else. I think he needs to go on loan to a club where the team is setup to suit him, maybe even drop to league one, play reguarly, learn to play a role, get his confidence back, and see what happens.
Field i think could come into our team now and wouldnt look out of place but also wouldnt standout, i think he will have a good steady career as a championship player, maybe lower league premier at the best, i think with Livermore now banned for 4 games if Field cannot get any minutes then he needs to ask to leave for his own good.
I havent really seen enough of Harper, Fitzwater or Wilson to comment, but Edwards is the one who has stood out to me. I think all our younger players will have careers in football, they obviously are talented to get to where they are now but i have a feeling only one maybe two will have it at the Albion. Not many of our youngsters have gone onto better things, most have had to take a step or two down to come back and i think that will be the case with most of ours (would love to be proved wrong and they all become Albion legends!)
Good post ;D DM not using the youth talent pool is one of the main complaints leveled against him by those who are not convinced by his appointment. As you say he has been happy to use the youth talent bought into the club, but not our own products. However, this is not an unusual situation for the Albion as apart from Saido's brief flirtation with brilliance I'm struggling to think of any other recent success?
Following implementation of the academy we initially seemed to lose our best potential to bigger clubs for nothing with Brown, Sinclair and Dhanda but none have become established at a high level. As an established Premier league club we have then sold players who were not ready for the top division in Roofe who has since developed, Thorne and then Roberts. All would probably be around our first team now if fit, but they were a distance from first team regulars and the reasons for selling were sound as at that time as we were looking to buy experienced Premier League and established internationals (that went well!).
The best of the current crop? Field is the enigma. Under Meggo last year he looked erratic but created some excitement with his energetic displays only to be bombed out as soon as the deplorable Pardew came in. Would love to see him succeed but that is three managers out of four that haven't picked him. It does feel unfair to judge him on his performance against a very mobile Derby side, but he may just lack a yard of pace to replace the more experienced players? He is still young but needs to make the break through soon or move on as Roofe did.
The others; Leko couldn't get into an only half-decent Bristol City team last year which suggests a lot. Some good reports came in regarding Fitzwater at Walsall but he is part of a struggling team conceding goals and Wilson is not first choice. I haven't seen Harper play first hand so cannot comment but he impressed people with a good eye in the cup and is the one i would like to see given the opportunity. The only other player to be given any game time was Edwards, whose cameo was superb but then he did a vanishing act? This is the kind of thing that does nag away at us fans - it would be great for the management team to come out and explain why he hasn't featured more.
The fact is that although we are desperate for one of our kids to really come through and make it, in the 30 odd years (scary) i've been watching Albion the amount of players that have come through the youth/academy system and really made the grade can be counted on one hand? Carlton Palmer, David Burrows, Ugo Ehiogu? Surely there must be more? Time is blurry but it really seems to be one per generation at best. We thought that was Sadho, lets talk no more, so maybe we are due another from this batch? Can only hope.
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Sky Sports reporting that Wilson and Fitzwater have been recalled from Walsall.
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To specify, sounds like Wilson is recalled. Fitzwater will play for the FA cup game then go back to Walsall.
https://www.saddlers.co.uk/news/2019/january/loan-update-kane-wilson-and-jack-fitzwater/
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To specify, sounds like Wilson is recalled. Fitzwater will play for the FA cup game then go back to Walsall.
https://www.saddlers.co.uk/news/2019/january/loan-update-kane-wilson-and-jack-fitzwater/
it's on the O/S that Fitzwater will go back to Walsall but Wilson will look at other loan opportunities.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/january/duo-return-to-albion/
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Sensible to bring Wilson back. He needs to be loaned out either back to league 2, or to a league 1 side who are light at full back.
Unsure about the logic of bringing Fitzwater back as he could easily lose his place in the Walsall side if his replacement plays well. If he gets minutes on Saturday then maybe it is worth the progress check, but I would rather we had left him at Walsall for the whole season. Just personal preference really (I suppose it does keep him feeling part of our plans).
I don't particularly buy into the belief that our academy players aren't good enough. A number of players have left premier league sides to go to Germany in the last 2 years and have had instant success, suggesting it is an attitude problem with some clubs in England. Wolves, playing at a higher level than us have Morgan-Gibbs White getting plenty of first team opportunities, and Kourtney Hause and Dominic Iorfa being linked with moves to the championship. This is despite their academy not seemingly producing anything better than us at England age grade level (we are consistently one of the highest producers of England age level players, and it seems a decent indicator around producing top players, unless there is a bit of a bias towards selecting our players due to the Ashworth/Boothroyd/Downing link). Roofe and Sawyers are both proving to be solid championships players, having been written off here. Roberts also got no game time with us, while being able to get some minutes with the top of the table club in our league. Not all of Field, Harper, Leko, Edwards & (slightly different case but) Burke will end up being good enough for the top 2 divisions, but I would be surprised if none of them are, and they must be worth more opportunities from the subs bench than they are getting, Even in the prem Pulis found time to get Leko and Field on.
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Not sure what the point of recalling Fitzwater was just to stick him on the bench as an used sub, he would have been better off staying at Walsall and playing in their game at Bolton, better experience for him than watching two reserve sides
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Not sure what the point of recalling Fitzwater was just to stick him on the bench as an used sub, he would have been better off staying at Walsall and playing in their game at Bolton, better experience for him than watching two reserve sides
Not sure, the only thing I can think of is not wanting him cup tied in case we need to pull him back due to injuries.....and if he played for Walsall today he'd be tied and out
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Not sure, the only thing I can think of is not wanting him cup tied in case we need to pull him back due to injuries.....and if he played for Walsall today he'd be tied and out
If he wasn't going to play yesterday then I cannot see any chance he would play in the future cup games regardless of injuries etc
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All I can think of is that with Hegazi injured, DM didn't want Dawson to even have to sit on the bench ahead of the Norwich game.
Think DM also said something about getting some of the youngsters back to check on their fitness/progress....even if they are going straight back out it seems.
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I can't really speak with any authority as it could be a real positive for Moore to get to train with him for a few days, plus show Fitzwater that he is being considered and isn't forgotten (Tyler Roberts after all got fed up and decided to leave, and is now a first team option for table topping Leeds, having started again today).
As I said before though, i'm not convinced having him an an unused sub is that wise. Moore could have just gone to observe Fitzwater at a Walsall training session to show Fitzwater that he is valued. Would rather we had started him if we were going to call him back.
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Another loss for the under 23's - this time to Wolves. Set to be bottom of the table again - making us the worst placed academy in the EPPP A class for a second year on the trot I think?
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Another loss for the under 23's - this time to Wolves. Set to be bottom of the table again - making us the worst placed academy in the EPPP A class for a second year on the trot I think?
The club needs to sort it out with the academy above the age of 16, a tonne of recent England youth internationals around then and the academy rapidly declines.
The club defends this by saying we play younger players at these academy age groups, but clearly the lack of development suggests this is not a good tactic. The academy has got neither results or development right above scholboy ages.
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I fully accept that our U23 side is very young and that we're going to lose a lot of games playing mostly against older sides. I also understand that we let a number of the more established players go out on loan (Fitzwater, Wilson, O'Shea) and those that don't appear good enough are let go early enough to forge a career in the lower leagues (Mantom, Garmston, Donnellan).
The issue I have is that we have a group of our most promising academy players (Field, Harper, Leko, Edwards) (+ Tyler Roberts last season) who train and are heavily involved with the first team yet never get a chance to play, not even off the bench. We appear reluctant to loan them out. And they rarely even play for the U23s incase they are needed in the first team squad, Edwards was the only one involved tonight and he bagged a brace. They don't seem to be getting any game time at either level, except when they are wheeled out for the early rounds of the cup where their performances seem to have no bearing on whether they are picked again.
I'd have all of them out on loan tomorrow, except Harper, who should be starting in Livermore's absence.
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I think there is more to it with young players than just saying give them a chance, they have to be in a position to be good enough to be given that chance and as much as i want them to be, i am not sure some of our youngsters are.
We do play young players, we needed a attack minded player, if Leko was better than Barnes, we wouldnt of signed Barnes, we needed a defender, if Fitzwater was better than Tosin, we wouldnt of signed Tosin, reality is right now our own players arent good enough for us, they may or may not be in the future.
Players develop at different stages, when we see them for the first time as its somebody new its exciting, Oliver Burke is a great example, three years ago he made 10 starts for Forest, burst onto the scene, since then he has moved for £25m in transfer fees, played under at least 6 different managers (including Salzburg and availability for Scotland national team, a nation not exactly blessed with a large pool of players let alone young ones)
In the two and half years since his initial impact, Burke made less than 10 starts, Are all 6 managers wrong or has he maybe just not developed from his initial impact? Same applies to Leko and Field for us, they burst onto the scene a few years ago but a number of managers have since decided that they arent good enough right now.
And thats the key, you can be the best at youth / academy level, you can stand out a mile, you can have that initial impact when you move up but when it comes to the day to day battle for a shirt to make yourself a regular, maintaining your initial standards, competing against seasoned pro's, when its dog eat dog, thats when the best players shine through and continue, football has thousands of players who have burst onto the scene who stood out a mile but after a while faded into oblivion or dropped down the leagues.
Field is a interesting one as when Big Dave took over he had a free hit, we were going to be relegated, we had a centre midfielder injured - Barry, another who was booed Livermore (taxi gate) and another who was bang out of form (Greg). Moore had worked with Field at every level from youth, to academy, to pro, we were crying out for a centre midfielder, we had a young one (Field) who would of got the fans onside, the manager knew him better than anyone, it was a no risk option, yet Mooro decided to instead convert a left sided player into that role.
That maybe suggests that Field just isnt good enough, whatever the rights or wrongs, Moore went with Brunt and he was part of a team that nearly pulled off the greatest of great escapes which shows that Moore was right. The issue Field has got is that he currently plays in a position we arent desperate for - a sitting midfielder. We have an inform Barry, Brunt (though i dont think he should be there) and even Livermore can play there, Harper on the other hand is a box to box energetic midfielder, exactly what we have needed so the way he plays is what we need. If we had a midfield full of Mulumbu types and needed 'a sitter' then Harper wouldnt be as in demand as he is now and Field would be the one getting the attention for the role.
Its not just Albion, Villa have Grealish a regular, they have a few others who are fringe players, Wolves have Gibbs-White, again they have others who are squad players, they are exactly the same as us, the best players will make it, lots of players will be talked up and hyped but managers and coaches see them every day and only the odd one makes it as a regular.
I know people keep saying about Tyler Roberts but he has been left a year now and at the time of writing he hasnt done anything of note at Leeds, of course that may well change but its too early to say we should of done more to keep him or it was a mistake as there is nothing yet to suggest thats the case.
The young lads who went to bigger clubs - Izzy Brown - had success in the champ when we were in the prem, Dhanda is now at Swansea and i think played one or two games, Sinclair is at Sunderland in league one.
You get the odd ones who come and bounce back, Roofe at Leeds and Wood at Burnley but both those had to drop down a league or two then work there way back which against suggests where Albion were at the time, they werent good enough, and i bet for every Roofe / Wood there is 5 or 6 players of that time who were highly rated who have dropped down the leagues (Nabi, Daniels, Manton, Garmston all spring to mind straight away) and the same may apply to our current crop in the future too.
Now and again you get a crop of youngsters at the top level (and until last season thats where we were and where we are high in the league pushing towards going again) but most clubs get the odd youngster every season or two who make it, our last was Berahino, the next looks like being Harper, in a season or two's time we will probably have another group who come through where only one, maybe two will make it with us, the rest will drop down, its just how youth and football work.
Look at the likes of Kane Wilson, two seasons ago he was on the bench for premier league games, came close to being our youngest player, now he has been recalled from Walsall and last season he wasnt a regular in a league two side. That would suggest that at the moment his development has stalled, its not the club or the players fault, its just human nature, players just develop at different times and most of the time dont fulfill their promise they show at 16 or 17, Wilson may kick on again or he may of found he isnt upto top level football despite the early promise, its not their fault, its just the way it is.
Personally i dont like the under 23's, i preferred the old pontins league but i suppose as the national teams are doing well at all levels, the system would appear to be working on that score.
However that is the elite level, what i dont like about the under 23's is you get players signing scholarships and pro contracts very young and on big money when they often have just burst on the scene and not really proven much, the club wants to protect their asset and the player isnt going to turn down a load of money!
Again using Burke as an example, he is probably on at least £20k a week with Albion, if your moving for £15m then your entitled to say i am worth x amount. There will be loads of young pros in the top two leagues especially who have signed pro at 17 or 18 and are now 20 / 21 and have hardly played any senior football in the two or three years previous, just under 23's, some will of burst on the scene and for whatever reason not kicked on, others will be happy saying they are a footballer and all the attention and perks that goes with without hardly kicking a ball competitively.
So your are a young bloke earning more money than makes sense and not really ever playing football, you have a lot of spare time, few commitments and more money than you could ever dream of, its what happens then decides if your good enough, the players who go on to play top level are the ones who see past the distractions and still make sure football comes first, some realise eventually after a few years, others just never realise at all and end up dropping down the leagues.
Out our current crop of youngters (Harper, Field, Leko, Edwards Wilson, Fitzwater, O Shea, Howkins, Palmer (i wont include Burke) my guess would be one maybe two will make it at the Albion, one will drop down and then get back to a similar level as Albion (based on where we are now - premier / championship) and the rest will play lower league football or abroad at a lower standard and as a approximate numbers guide thats how most academies will work in the top two leagues, not just Albion.
If there is hope that these players can go on and play regularly at champ level at least (not just the odd cup game every few months) then they have to be loaned out, except for possibly Harper who seems to be close to actually playing. They have to have the weekly pressure where results count and the intensity of the training, matchdays, etc that all that brings.
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If they merely aren't anywhere near good enough as you summise then why are they being kept around in the first place? Moore even said he doesn't trust players till they have 75 appearances. Barnes managed to get most of that on loans elsewhere. Field and Harper won't get that because he never plays them, nor will he loan them out.
I find it difficult to believe that some of these players are considered among the best of their age group by England - namely Harper and Field, yet can't get any minutes in a distinctly average central midfield. The managers we've had have all been of a very safety first mentality. It's ok if Brunt has 10 bad games in central midfield, but God forbid one of the youth players have one there. We can't even risk that happening.
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I didnt say they wasnt anywhere near good enough, but there are loads of posts about moore wont play youth, will only pick his mates, etc when there is the option that they just arent good enough based on the reasons given, ie - he does pick youth - barnes and tosin and that he has worked with our own youth players at every level so knows more about them than pretty much any manager we could have, yet still doesnt pick them.
I think he actually said along the lines of your classed as a footballer when you have played 75 times which is a fair point, there are thousands of players who burst on the scene at loads of clubs, play a few games then are never heard of again, i interepeted his comments as when you have played 75 games you will of gained experience, made mistakes, found a position (most likely) but you are still playing football.
For what its worth as a fan i would love Harper to start saturday and given a run of games, i would also like to of seen Field played instead of Brunt but i also dont know them or see them but the person who does, may just think they arent good enough and there isnt some conspiracy againsts our own youth players.
Maybe the last few months he has been assessing them but i completely agree that if it is the case he doesnt think they are good enough then he should loan or sell them for their own benefit, not just keep them hanging around incase.
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You do make some great points albion79, but there are still some counter arguments, as Dan says. If we don't think they are good enough yet, get them out on loan (although from your post, it seems you don't disagree with that).
The arguments here aren't just about "giving them a chance ", they are about the clubs approach to developing players. Since it started around 15 years ago, we have still only brought through 1 player through our first team - Saido Berahino. Despite that, there is a realistic possibility of 4 Albion academy graduates playing premier league football next season (Wood, Roofe, Roberts - still only 19 and just off the back of a MoTM performance for them in the cup, plus Izzy Brown if he can get over his injury problems and have a good second half of the season at Leeds).
That is the first alarm bell - the ratios seem a bit out.
The 2nd as Dan has aluded to is that at under 20 level and below, Albion are still producing more England youth internationals than near enough any team our size. Only the big guns and Everton have more. Despite this, our teams at under 23 level are consistently beaten, we have never threatened to win the FA Youth cup, and we have cycled through around 3-4 different groups of academy players in 10 years who have all alarmingly dropped off after emerging into our 16-21 development phase (this includes a number of England youth internationals like the Nabi brothers, Amenku, Thorne, Hurst, Alliyu, Garmston from top of head, plus a number of Gk's like Rose who had caps). It's possible that there is a pro Albion bias in the youth selection set up which skews the numbers - Ashworth, Downing and Boothroyd all had a big hand in developing our academy and are now all in positions of power.
It might just be however that at schoolboy level, our sides are the best around and the decline happens once they reach our full time academy - a second alarm bell.
Clubs like Blues, Norwich, Palace and Villa are all getting more kids through their first teams, despite having less youth internationals. Dowling, as technical director, needs to get a handle on why we are stalling. I don't know if it means loaning players out earlier, changing our culture by getting managers to give more opportunities, improving the structure at 16-21 level, or maybe even looking at the schoolboy level (are we falling into a trap of signing those who have jst developed physically quicker). After 15 years though, I was hoping for us to develop at least 1 premier league quality kid every few years and a few championship quality ones as well.
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It's also worth pointing out that we've given just 192 minutes in the league to academy products this season. For academy players 21 or unde, this is the second lowest in the top half of the league (it may well be the second lowest in the league, I haven't checked the bottom half).
Every other team aside from Sheffield United in the top 12 has an academy product regularly starting, so we cannot use the excuse that its the pressure of promotion. In which case, the options are we have either one of the worst academies in the league, or else its a problem with the clubs mentality on handling and playing youth players.
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Yeah i agree with you both (baggies and dan) on a number of points, i was just adding about this current crop not playing and maybe not been good enough yet.
I said in a post months ago i didnt like our under 23’s approach, losing every week is no good for anybody (saying that i think we won about 5 games on the trot after that!) if the likes of field, leko, etc are still here they should be playing every week for the under 23’s along with the better players from younger groups (who also have their own age groups, under 18’s)
I have never understood the clubs logic of playing the really young ones and watching them lose every week, you do it too often it becomes a habit and as you rightly point out only 1 player in years (big fat saido) has actually become a albion regular.
We do seem good at schoolboy level and we do produce a number of players who play national youth level and who then go on to make careers mainly at lower level, but with Darren Moore having worked at that level and now possibly not thinking the current group are good enough to be picked reguarly i would be reviewing our academy setup a bit and how its benefitting albion in creating first team players for us.
What worries me is that if one manager came in and had no interest in youth then fair enough but i cant remember one albion manager since the academy thing was created playing youngsters reguarly except for a few seasons with berahino and i dont think all those managers can be wrong including the current one who knows them better than most.
I would hope as stated above that Dowling is looking at this and find out why we get fewer players than most other clubs who are deemed good enough to play regularly.
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If they merely aren't anywhere near good enough as you summise then why are they being kept around in the first place? Moore even said he doesn't trust players till they have 75 appearances. Barnes managed to get most of that on loans elsewhere. Field and Harper won't get that because he never plays them, nor will he loan them out.
I find it difficult to believe that some of these players are considered among the best of their age group by England - namely Harper and Field, yet can't get any minutes in a distinctly average central midfield. The managers we've had have all been of a very safety first mentality. It's ok if Brunt has 10 bad games in central midfield, but God forbid one of the youth players have one there. We can't even risk that happening.
This is the bit that annoys me also....the seeming lack of trust in younger players as though we can't possibly risk giving one of them a couple of games unless we absolutely have to. It does seem to be a mindset of our managers and I'm afraid, although I like DM, he has so far been the worst at this especially given that we've dropped down a level. Field didn't look out of place in the prem (he had a niggling calf injury at the end of last season by the way, which may have ruined his immediate chances with Moore). Harper is a slightly different case as he's gone through a positional change converting from striker to CM/AM in the last 2 or 3 years but he really needs to be given more game time now. Leko or Edwards should have been on the bench (and on the pitch during 2nd half) against Brentford but we preferred to load the bench with ageing midfielders, Mears and Harper who was never going to get on.
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What we forget, at times, is that we are doing very well. I don't think we've been outside the top 7 all season, other than day 1.
Yes, pretty much all of us could see that Brunt in CM and Bartley on the left of a back 3 was not ideal, but, like it or not, we were still getting results and our league position held up. Once we hit the skids and results started to suffer Moore reacted and changed both of the above along with the formation. Again, we could argue that Field should have replaced Brunt a this point, but he didn't, Barry did and did exceptionally well and, again, results backed it up and we moved up the league.
The point I'm making is that Moore only seems to react when results or circumstances dictate. To this end Harper may well get his chance in Livermore's absence and, I truly believe that, if he does well and we get results, he will hold onto the shirt. If, however, Morrison comes in and we get results, the same will apply.
Personally, I think we've seen all we're going to see from Mozza and his M.O of 1 good game in 4 is more evident than ever, so would like Harper to get the nod but, whatever Moore decides, as long as we get results he'll get my support.
I have no answer to the lack of opportunity from the bench though. There are times when Edwards, Leko, Harper and even Burke, would have been a far more logical option and i hope this is something we address in the 2nd half of the season. If not, then yes, they should go out on loan.
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http://sportwitness.co.uk/youngster-snubs-west-brom-stoke-city-deal-agreed-father-tells-reason-behind-potters-move/
Young keeper has rejected us for Stoke as he feels as an Academy player his development will be better as Stoke also promote from within more
At the age of 15, Maksymilian Boruc made his senior team debut for lower league Swedish club IFK Värnamo.
According to Polish newspaper Przeglad Sportowy, the goalkeeper caught the attention of clubs from England, Germany and Italy and had trials with Stoke City, West Bromwich Albion, Schalke and Torino.
Now 16, Boruc has snubbed the Baggies and other clubs in order to join the Potters, with whom he has signed a two-and-a-half year deal, and this decision was taken after the teenager consulted with his family.
It is explained the youngster’s family believes a club like Stoke would be an ideal place for the development of the player, and his father explains in detail that the Championship side’s transfer policy was a factor in his son’s decision to join them.
“From the point of view of a keeper, it’s an ideal situation, because there will be a lot of work. Stoke focuses on young players, the U23 goalkeepers train every day with the first team,†Paul Boruc stressed.
“There is a prospect that if everything goes in the right direction, Stoke is not a club that would suddenly buy a goalkeeper for several million pounds, but would prefer to promote players from the academy.â€
An interesting fact mentioned in the report is that Maksymilian is a distant cousin of Bournemouth shot stopper Artur Boruc, but the two have not spoken to each other as they’ve had an opportunity to meet so far.
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I’d also argue we’re pretty stocked on keepers, what with Alex Palmer, Jasko Keranovic, Adam Przybek, Ethan Ross, Brad House and Ben Pierce as well as Ted Cann and Josh Griffiths all in and around the u23’s and U18’s.
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https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/bundesliga-jadon-sancho-callum-hudson-odoi-premier-league-transfer-news-epl-a8729736.html
Article in today's independant by their chief footvall writer Miguel Delaney about how the Bundesliga getting Sancho and now chasing Hudson-Odoi is just the start. He has listed 14 players Bundesliga scouts are taking a particular interest in.
16 year old Morgan Rodgers and 15 year old Louie Barry from our academy are 2 of those 14.
We need to prove soon that qe are a good "finishing school" as we do seem to be producing a type of player that is highly sought after.
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https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/bundesliga-jadon-sancho-callum-hudson-odoi-premier-league-transfer-news-epl-a8729736.html
Article in today's independant by their chief footvall writer Miguel Delaney about how the Bundesliga getting Sancho and now chasing Hudson-Odoi is just the start. He has listed 14 players Bundesliga scouts are taking a particular interest in.
16 year old Morgan Rodgers and 15 year old Louie Barry from our academy are 2 of those 14.
We need to prove soon that qe are a good "finishing school" as we do seem to be producing a type of player that is highly sought after.
I'm a hypocrite, so if it didn't suggest a negative effect on us I would say brilliant! It would be great to see more young English players at the top levels around the world and it has to benefit the national team. Good luck to the young lads who choose to take the move.
I'm sure it will push English clubs in to giving them more opportunities too (and probably fatter contracts). The players should have little bit of caution as well, Sancho cost £8m and went virtually straight in so is clearly an exceptional talent. I am sure even at 95% of English clubs he would have been braking through now.
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I'm a hypocrite, so if it didn't suggest a negative effect on us I would say brilliant! It would be great to see more young English players at the top levels around the world and it has to benefit the national team. Good luck to the young lads who choose to take the move.
I'm sure it will push English clubs in to giving them more opportunities too (and probably fatter contracts). The players should have little bit of caution as well, Sancho cost £8m and went virtually straight in so is clearly an exceptional talent. I am sure even at 95% of English clubs he would have been braking through now.
Its 100% a route the young generation should be looking at. Fair play to Reece Oxford, Nelson and Sancho for moving over to Germany to get some game time.
Sancho's progression may benefit the English national squad in the long run, for younger age groups (i.e the 21's,19's,18's) are all progressing in major tournaments and winning trophies. There has to be a route to first team football for them to succeed. Sancho has built a platform now and proved that there are clubs willing to give you game time (it would have been easy for him to stay at City and get the odd cup appearance).
The likes of Brewster at Liverpool, Smith-Rowe at Arsenal etc will be the next batch of youngsters who must make the decision to go and get first team football and show their talent.
EDIT: I had a quick google of 'promising young English footballers' and was surprised to see that there are some youngsters have moved abroad already that I hadn't heard of:
Reo Griffiths - Lyon (left Spurs academy)
Keanen Bennetts - Borrusia Monchengladbach (left Spurs)
Ronaldo Vieira - Sampdoria
Marcus McGuane - Barcelona
Jonathan Panzo - Monaco
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https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/bundesliga-jadon-sancho-callum-hudson-odoi-premier-league-transfer-news-epl-a8729736.html
Article in today's independant by their chief footvall writer Miguel Delaney about how the Bundesliga getting Sancho and now chasing Hudson-Odoi is just the start. He has listed 14 players Bundesliga scouts are taking a particular interest in.
16 year old Morgan Rodgers and 15 year old Louie Barry from our academy are 2 of those 14.
We need to prove soon that qe are a good "finishing school" as we do seem to be producing a type of player that is highly sought after.
Interesting piece from the BBC regarding Brentford and academies if you've got a couple of minutes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46864784
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https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/bundesliga-jadon-sancho-callum-hudson-odoi-premier-league-transfer-news-epl-a8729736.html
Article in today's independant by their chief footvall writer Miguel Delaney about how the Bundesliga getting Sancho and now chasing Hudson-Odoi is just the start. He has listed 14 players Bundesliga scouts are taking a particular interest in.
16 year old Morgan Rodgers and 15 year old Louie Barry from our academy are 2 of those 14.
We need to prove soon that qe are a good "finishing school" as we do seem to be producing a type of player that is highly sought after.
Great article. I think the following quote sums up the biggest problem that has faced the English national team for the past few years: Many who work on the continent simply can’t believe how wedded English clubs are to a hierarchical system regarding age. It is like they get hung up on it, and won’t trust an 18-year-old if they can bring in a 21-year-old. The director of football at a Ligue 1 club confided that, “we can’t believe some of the quality English clubs have and don’t use. Age doesn’t come into it with us, it’s just about level of quality.
We're seeing exactly the same at Albion this window, Rekeem Harper has a high ceiling of potential yet we're interested in signing Isaac Hayden from Newcastle. Thankfully European clubs are willing to give English players a chance, it will pay off for the England team over the next few years.
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Interesting piece from the BBC regarding Brentford and academies if you've got a couple of minutes.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/46864784
Fascinating. So much to read in to that story, but the overwhelming one is that Brentford are the best run club in England. 2 directors of football, innovative data crunching and a different view to academy football. Worth noting Forss, the youth striker who played for the first team in the cup this year is ex Albion.
It also shows the effects of EPPP. Smaller clubs will see less worth in keeping a youth team structure and will instead scrap them and simply focus on becoming "finishing schools" for those who get released from the top academies. That could become a positive in some ways - less players would end up wasting time in youth football only to fall onto the scrapheap at 19 or 20 without much idea of what to do next, while the top youngsters benefit from the best youth coaching and then get a second chance at the clubs outside the "elite plan". Most countries don't have as many individual clubs as us so it could be the way to go.
I just wish we could be as innovative. I don't think we should scrap our academy as we have gone too far down the EPPP now so we will hopefully produce more players from a younger age, but it shows there are lots of different ideas out there if you are prepared to try. Brentford have hired coaches from abroad, while we have had a stream of English coaches. Foreign doesn't = better all of the time, but it does sometimes show a club has gone out and headhunted somebody with different ideas rather than just looking at what is available locally.
We could learn a lot from Brentford.
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Great article. I think the following quote sums up the biggest problem that has faced the English national team for the past few years: Many who work on the continent simply can’t believe how wedded English clubs are to a hierarchical system regarding age. It is like they get hung up on it, and won’t trust an 18-year-old if they can bring in a 21-year-old. The director of football at a Ligue 1 club confided that, “we can’t believe some of the quality English clubs have and don’t use. Age doesn’t come into it with us, it’s just about level of quality.
We're seeing exactly the same at Albion this window, Rekeem Harper has a high ceiling of potential yet we're interested in signing Isaac Hayden from Newcastle. Thankfully European clubs are willing to give English players a chance, it will pay off for the England team over the next few years.
I would say this has also held back the national side. Too much reliance on "experience" and top 6 bias.
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Albion through to 5th round of FA Youth cup after beating QPR 5-1. Soule with 2, Tulloch with 2 and Rodgers with 1 from outside box (Rodgers also hit bar from outside box in first half).
With Soule, Tulloch, Rodgers and Barry all getting game time yesterday, it looks like we are continuingto produce a consistent number if top young English strikers.
As is typical, despite their being a number of smaller sides left in the competition, we have drawn Arsenal at the emirates.
Likely there will be a live stream link for the game.
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Everton ready to approach Steve Hopcroft, our Head of Academy
https://thisisfutbol.com/2019/01/blogs/everton-approach-west-brom-over-hopcroft/
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Everton ready to approach Steve Hopcroft, our Head of Academy
https://thisisfutbol.com/2019/01/blogs/everton-approach-west-brom-over-hopcroft/
This would be a massive blow. He is the jewel in our crown when discussing our academy.
He was approached and turned down Man Utd so I'm hoping he'll do the same if approached.
You only have to watch is recent in-depth interviews he's done on YouTube to see what a class operator he is.
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In light of today's Sako news coupled with Jrods niggle, Phillips injury and the departures of Barnes and Burke I'd suggest that we will be seeing Rayhaan Tulloch and/or Mogan Rogers on the bench tomorrow.
I personally think Rogers, even at 16, looks like he could handle it. Physically a good build and lightening fast feet and skill.
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Yep, seems likely given Edwards and Leko are almost certain to be involved, it still leaves an option on the bench. I'd expect Myhill / Bond, Townsend, Mears, Adarabioyo, Fitzwater to be on the bench if none of the guys with knocks are risked at all. We are lacking in forward areas so it's the ideal opportunity to get someone like Rogers on the bench. Louie Barry is only 15 (how ridiculous is that), if he were a bit older it'd be ideal for him as well.
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I said previous as another side to the argument, maybe the players werent good enough or ready yet and thats why they wasnt playing (not saying that was the case but could of been an option)
We have been doing well so its not like it was costing us them not playing, but its great to see them involved now, maybe Mooro wanted to work with them for six months since pre-season as part of his playing style overhaul, see where they are at, etc before giving them a chance, i have said previous there are loads of kids who are highly rated who play a few games never to be heard of again so perhaps he is making sure they were ready.
Even though its been brought on by injury, it was great to see 2 x academy players in the midfield on Monday, sometimes a suspension or injury is the only way you get chance to grab a place.
Hopefully Edwards and Leko get to start tomorrow too, we are down on numbers so this could be the chance they are waiting for.
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Injury crisis survived using the kids. There is a collective confidence to them- probably helps one of the group harper has started 4 back to back games.
Field was steady again today his best position is the Barry role (which is why he's down the pecking order) but looks good for future.
Harper all round best of bunch needs tying down to a new long term deal. Edwards had a quiet game but he was out of position All game.
Leko has something about him he's exciting and he commits players. End product not there but I would advocate better to play him as a wide forward than HRK. young tulloch also looked promising when he came on.
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I thought Edwards showed a few glimpses that he is quite direct and has a bit about him.
Leko still excites me but frustrates me at the same time. It’s easy to forget that he’s still very young. I really think he can give us something off the bench for 20 mins each game, he commits players just lacks that end product at times.
Our future certainly looks bright. I think today has shown they can be trusted when needed.
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We aren’t going to win the cup. So big question for these lads, is it worth costing them half a season of football for one FA cup game?
Personally It would be great for them all to go out, including Harper and Field but I imagine those two are likely to stay because of how light we are. Shame as those two would probably benefit from 15 games more than most.
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We aren’t going to win the cup. So big question for these lads, is it worth costing them half a season of football for one FA cup game?
Personally It would be great for them all to go out, including Harper and Field but I imagine those two are likely to stay because of how light we are. Shame as those two would probably benefit from 15 games more than most.
Of course we are huge odds against but there aren't many Premier League team left. Unlikely, but we've had worse chances.
I would expect Wolves to really fancy their chances.
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Prem team's are falling by the wayside, got a good chance of knocking out another team from the greed league. I'd play same side with exception of HRK being replaced by Gayle could have good Cup run for a change.
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We aren’t going to win the cup. So big question for these lads, is it worth costing them half a season of football for one FA cup game?
Personally It would be great for them all to go out, including Harper and Field but I imagine those two are likely to stay because of how light we are. Shame as those two would probably benefit from 15 games more than most.
Spurs are as good as out. Sheffield Wednesday might knock Chelsea out yet. Wolves and Brighton both have replays. Could only be 4/16 teams come round 5. Be 6 if we do our part.
We have a better chance of winning the cup competition than we will ever have at winning the premier league.
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I love some of the optimism but it’s not going to happen. One of the Manchester’s will win it.
History tends to show when it falls like this it just makes an easier route for big remaining clubs. Since 1995 one of the current ‘top 6’ hasn’t won it only twice. The league cup gets a better spread.
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I love some of the optimism but it’s not going to happen. One of the Manchester’s will win it.
History tends to show when it falls like this it just makes an easier route for big remaining clubs. Since 1995 one of the current ‘top 6’ hasn’t won it only twice. The league cup gets a better spread.
Come on Johnny if you don't dream in football that we could be the best or we could win something it's a pointless venture. You saw how things were in 2008 when Portsmouth won it.
You're probably right it would be one of the Manchester sides but the beauty of the cup is anything can happen over one game. Be nice to appear in another semi or even a final. Never say never Wigan won the thing and they weren't supposed too
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Come on Johnny if you don't dream in football that we could be the best or we could win something it's a pointless venture. You saw how things were in 2008 when Portsmouth won it.
You're probably right it would be one of the Manchester sides but the beauty of the cup is anything can happen over one game. Be nice to appear in another semi or even a final. Never say never Wigan won the thing and they weren't supposed too
I would love us to win something, but sadly I think the past few years have been a far better chance for us than this one.
Would love to get back up and win a cup with a couple or more academy players in the side, and to get back on topic I think those players will develop more of they get games.
I heard on a podcast the other day that 17 players in the one of the England youth sides, can’t remember which age but it was either the World Cup or euro championship group had EFL experience already. Some of our lads are nearly 20 and have nearly any experience. Sat on the bench or in our reserve they’ll get left behind and overtaken.
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That same podcast also said pound for pound we have the beat academy in the EFL.
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That same podcast also said pound for pound we have the beat academy in the EFL.
is that the English beat :P
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Will Fitzwater be going back out. Or are we literally waiting to the last hour to make sure man city don't recall tosin so we can send him back to the saddlers.
Leko or Edwards going out?
That tulloch looked lively the other day be good if we could get him a slot in league 2 until the end of the season
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Albion 3-0 up at half time vs Norwich in the under 23's. Yet another goal for Jamie Soule (must be loaned out un the summer, seems to have found his mojo again after dropping out of the England picture 2 years ago). The bigger story though, 2 more for Morgan Rodgers. Only 16 years of age, and yet he is really having a huge impact on under 18 and under 23 football.
People in the know about youth football reckon he is the real deal and one of the top youngsters of a very good bunch of England teenagers.
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Update, currently 6-2 with 20 mins left.
Soule has 2
16 year old Rodgers has 4
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Update, currently 6-2 with 20 mins left.
Soule has 2
16 year old Rodgers has 4
According to Norwich Twitter Lamy a trialist got the first
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Albion's twitter thought Rodgers scored, he must have been close or putting defender under pressure and our lot got it wrong.
Still a hat trick, and hit bar with a free kick.
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Albion's twitter thought Rodgers scored, he must have been close or putting defender under pressure and our lot got it wrong.
Still a hat trick, and hit bar with a free kick.
No idea who got it then :D
This is Julien Lamy the trialist details
https://us.soccerway.com/players/julien-lamy/478133/
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I'd be very surprised if the club holds onto Rodgers, he's probably the highest rated prospect we've ever produced and arguably the star player of the current England under 17 team. No doubt he'll have top teams here and abroad offering him contracts.
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I'd be very surprised if the club holds onto Rodgers, he's probably the highest rated prospect we've ever produced and arguably the star player of the current England under 17 team. No doubt he'll have top teams here and abroad offering him contracts.
apparently already has and said no at least once or twice now.
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He is reported to be on German clubs radars.
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I don't like to get carried away with young players and some of the hype that goes on but do follow the under 23's online and the odd game I see .
Tonight against Brighton was a huge step up from the Under 23's and these lads have really shown something , there's some serious potential there in 3 or 4 of them .
I know ( and agree in some respects ) many are annoyed with DM for using both Cups as a testing ground for the youngsters but overall our main aim doesn't involve those competitions .
Not saying I'd want this every season but it's done a lot of good this year.
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Nice to see Rogers come on but was there any gain - as in it makes it more difficult / expensive for another club to pinch him now that he's played for the senior team ?
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Nice to see Rogers come on but was there any gain - as in it makes it more difficult / expensive for another club to pinch him now that he's played for the senior team ?
If I remember right, I think if he was to get poached, his value would increase now he has played for the first team as opposed to if he was still playing academy football, as he's seen as being part of the senior set up.
Could be wrong though.
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If I remember right, I think if he was to get poached, his value would increase now he has played for the first team as opposed to if he was still playing academy football, as he's seen as being part of the senior set up.
Could be wrong though.
Yes i think that's right, there was some benefit in just getting him on the pitch. Although he's obviously a prospect I'm not sure he would have been pushed ahead of Edwards and Leko at this stage otherwise.
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We do look as though we have a very talented group of players but the problem is we probably wont see Leko, Edwards, Tulloch or Rogers involved in a competitive game now for another six months when the first round of the carabao cups start, so the momentum of the last 10 days will of gone.
The likes of Edwards and Leko very rarely got near the first team for league games the first five months of the season, i cannot see that changing now we have signed another three players.
I believe they were both carrying knocks last night but they should of been loaned out and probably Tulloch too (Rogers at 16 is a bit too young), keeping them here for cup fixtures is pointless when we are now out by early February.
The only way these lads will have chance to fulfill their potential is by playing reguarly which they wont do with us, i think Sam Field has suffered massively due to not going out and playing on loan, i am desperate for him to do well, he seems a nice lad, Albion fan, but he is 21 in May and is no closer to being a regular than he was when he broke on the scene three years ago, Leko the same.
Our whole loan system has to be reviewed because training every day and playing for the under 23's a couple of times a month is not fair to these lads careers whether it be with Albion or elsewhere.
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We do look as though we have a very talented group of players but the problem is we probably wont see Leko, Edwards, Tulloch or Rogers involved in a competitive game now for another six months when the first round of the carabao cups start, so the momentum of the last 10 days will of gone.
The likes of Edwards and Leko very rarely got near the first team for league games the first five months of the season, i cannot see that changing now we have signed another three players.
I believe they were both carrying knocks last night but they should of been loaned out and probably Tulloch too (Rogers at 16 is a bit too young), keeping them here for cup fixtures is pointless when we are now out by early February.
The only way these lads will have chance to fulfill their potential is by playing reguarly which they wont do with us, i think Sam Field has suffered massively due to not going out and playing on loan, i am desperate for him to do well, he seems a nice lad, Albion fan, but he is 21 in May and is no closer to being a regular than he was when he broke on the scene three years ago, Leko the same.
Our whole loan system has to be reviewed because training every day and playing for the under 23's a couple of times a month is not fair to these lads careers whether it be with Albion or elsewhere.
Mostly fair points. I do though think Sam Field after the last 3 weeks is closer to being a regular than he's ever been. He could have been left out on Saturday but Moore seems to be applying the 'the shirt is yours to lose' principle to him and Harper which is good to see (whether they play Saturday after last night's exertions is another matter). Also Edwards - it sounded like there was a loan to Coventry setup but given Barnes and Sako had gone and Phillips injured, we couldn't really let him go until the 3 deadline day signings were finally done which was very late in the day - too late to get Edwards out it seems.
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I don't like to get carried away with young players and some of the hype that goes on but do follow the under 23's online and the odd game I see .
Tonight against Brighton was a huge step up from the Under 23's and these lads have really shown something , there's some serious potential there in 3 or 4 of them .
I know ( and agree in some respects ) many are annoyed with DM for using both Cups as a testing ground for the youngsters but overall our main aim doesn't involve those competitions .
Not saying I'd want this every season but it's done a lot of good this year.
I agree entirely, I think it has also benefitted Field massively, so hard to give the youngsters game time when you are fighting relegation from the Premier League or fighting for promotion.
I think the recent history of our young players leaving for the top teams and their relative failure having done so will hopefully encourage them to stick with us and hopefully benefit both us and them.
George Thorne has slipped to much lower level and Izzy Brown is continually injured (like Thorne) and hardly pulling up any trees in the Championship.
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Youth side have knocked Arsenal out of the FA Youth Cup on their own pitch !
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Youth side have knocked Arsenal out of the FA Youth Cup on their own pitch !
Not sure if this justifies Wednesday but it's an achievement nonetheless.
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Not sure if this justifies Wednesday but it's an achievement nonetheless.
Haven't seen the line up yet , better idea then .
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Massive achievement!
E&S saying the quarter final is likely at the Hawthorns against Everton or Brighton.
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Huge achievement, Arsenal were MASSIVE favourites to win the entire tournament. Their team is top to bottom England youth stars.
First time we've made the quarter final in decades, and with the team we have we have a shot of winning it. Hopefully they get a decent attendance at the Hawthorns for the quarter final.
Jamie Soule (who seems to be really stepping up this year and may well be the next player we see getting his chance in the first team) and Finn Azaz with the goals.
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Huge achievement, Arsenal were MASSIVE favourites to win the entire tournament. Their team is top to bottom England youth stars.
First time we've made the quarter final in decades, and with the team we have we have a shot of winning it. Hopefully they get a decent attendance at the Hawthorns for the quarter final.
Jamie Soule (who seems to be really stepping up this year and may well be the next player we see getting his chance in the first team) and Finn Azaz with the goals.
What brilliant news, well done lads
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This was our under 18's team that beat, favorites for the competition, Arsenal
ALBION: Griffiths, White (Gardner-Hickman 62), Martinez, Ferguson, Harmon; Brown, Solanke; Tulloch (Asomugha 82), Azaz, Rogers, Soule.
Goal Scores: Goals Jamie Soule and Finn Azaz
Substitutes: Cann, Delaney, Taylor.
Well done lads, you make us proud!
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Well done lads great achievement
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3-1 win over Sunderland tonight
Two from Jamie Soule and one from Rayhaan Tulloch, Morgan Rogers missing a penalty, good to see him having the confidence to take them, all good players miss one at times.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/february/albion-u23s-3-sunderland-u23s-1/
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Anyone heading to the hawthorns tonight to watch the u18s in the FA Youth Cup against Everton (7pm Kick Off)
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Yes i am going but understand HSTH still have to pay £5 which i think is poor to be honest.
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I might go. I have work at 11pm and it depends on what time I wake up, going to bed in a minute.
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Where can you park tonight thinking of going.
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Anyone got any updates?
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Anyone got any updates?
losing 2-0 according to Twitter
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1-2 now
Tulloch '36
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Cheers lads
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At the game, its a good match, nice to see young lads playing with freedom.
Albion better side first 10 mins and last 10 mins, everton better side inbetween.
We were on top, we play out from the back but the centre half got caught (sound familiar!) their lad nicked it and buried it and their 2nd seemed to deflect and loop over the keeper.
We got back into it, couple of nice moves and then scored a really well worked goal through tulloch.
Morgan rogers is head and shoulders best player on the pitch, he really does look special, thought he was a striker but he is playing wide right. You can tell tulloch has something but he is trying to take everyone on and doesnt pass enough. The albion number 4 in centre midfield looks a good olayer, not sure his name though!
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2 - 2
Solanke '48
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2-2
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Losing 3-2 :-[
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3-3 - Morgan Rogers
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3 - 3
Rogers '76
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4 - 3
Gardner-Hickman '79
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Everton down to ten men
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Won 4-3 ;D
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Great result lads well done BOING BOING :D
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Well done the young ‘uns!
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Bodes well for the future.
btw..What a strange word..."bodes" ???
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Just back from the game.
Pity they have the same tendency to give away silly goals as their elders. ::)
Great fighting spirit.
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Pat Frost on Twitter:
10 of the starting 11 tonight are from within a 10 mile radius of the hawthorns....without doubt our academy is flourishing
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Hope none of these exceptional prospects get lured away from Hawthorns.
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I wonder when the last time we got to thr youth cup semi's were? Certainly a first in my lifetime.
If you look at the recent finalists, it is nearly always Chelsea and another team from the big 6.
If we can get past Man City next round, we will be the first team from outside the cartel since Fulham in 2014.
This group certainly looks special, going forwars at least. Lets hope thise Bayern scouts who were in the crowd don't take the likes of Rodgers away from us.
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I wonder when the last time we got to thr youth cup semi's were? Certainly a first in my lifetime.
If you look at the recent finalists, it is nearly always Chelsea and another team from the big 6.
If we can get past Man City next round, we will be the first team from outside the cartel since Fulham in 2014.
This group certainly looks special, going forwars at least. Lets hope thise Bayern scouts who were in the crowd don't take the likes of Rodgers away from us.
Don't know but the only time we've won it was 1976. Derek Statham was the star of that team, Mark Grew, Steve Lynex, Wayne Hughes and Kevin Summerfield also went onto represent the Albion at first team level.
We beat Wolves (some things never change) 5-0 in the Final over two legs.
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Ended up going on the off chance as something else got cancelled and really glad i did.
One of the most enjoyable games i have watched in a long time, the young lads were a credit to the club.
Aside from a 20 minute spell middle of the first half we outplayed Everton and 2 of their goals came from an Albion player error, the football we play is brilliant, they pass the ball with purpose and pace and the skill and technique of the players is brilliant.
Two blokes who were sat by me (think they were with the FA by how they were talking) were saying before that Everton are of the top youth academies and i think they thought they would win comfortably, i think we lost 10-0 to them earlier this season, but last night we were a different level to them.
In the end Everton just lost their rag and were quite cynical, some bad tackles, couple of off the ball incidents (including a forearm smash!) but Albion just kept playing the football.
Stand out players were the Albion number 6 who played left centre half, think he was the captain (might be name Harmon) very good player and organiser. The right back was a good player, Solanke who played centre midfield was quality (he gave first goal away but other than that) and second half Tulloch was brilliant, he played more as a team player and it showed, Everton were scared stiff. The sub who came on Gardner Hickman, scored the 4th goal but also looked a very good player.
However the standout player is Morgan Rogers, if last night is anything to go by, we have something very special. He is a big lad but very quick, brilliant feet, he glides past people and his first touch is top draw, the two blokes i mentioned above both said that pretty much every top team in europe, not just England want him, but the big plus for Albion is apparently he is a big Albion fan and can see a pathway into the first team under Moore.
Its obviously a big step from youth to first team but watching it last night was a pleasure and i will certainly be making an effort to go the semi final.
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Anyone got a link to last nights highlights 😋
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Its an excitime time at youth level for Albion
We have a fantastic academy and hope to see some of these progress into our first team and become regulars
Morgan Rogers is going to be star I think....at his age already and made his first team debut and playing at an age group far higher than he should....
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Ended up going on the off chance as something else got cancelled and really glad i did.
One of the most enjoyable games i have watched in a long time, the young lads were a credit to the club.
Aside from a 20 minute spell middle of the first half we outplayed Everton and 2 of their goals came from an Albion player error, the football we play is brilliant, they pass the ball with purpose and pace and the skill and technique of the players is brilliant.
Two blokes who were sat by me (think they were with the FA by how they were talking) were saying before that Everton are of the top youth academies and i think they thought they would win comfortably, i think we lost 10-0 to them earlier this season, but last night we were a different level to them.
In the end Everton just lost their rag and were quite cynical, some bad tackles, couple of off the ball incidents (including a forearm smash!) but Albion just kept playing the football.
Stand out players were the Albion number 6 who played left centre half, think he was the captain (might be name Harmon) very good player and organiser. The right back was a good player, Solanke who played centre midfield was quality (he gave first goal away but other than that) and second half Tulloch was brilliant, he played more as a team player and it showed, Everton were scared stiff. The sub who came on Gardner Hickman, scored the 4th goal but also looked a very good player.
However the standout player is Morgan Rogers, if last night is anything to go by, we have something very special. He is a big lad but very quick, brilliant feet, he glides past people and his first touch is top draw, the two blokes i mentioned above both said that pretty much every top team in europe, not just England want him, but the big plus for Albion is apparently he is a big Albion fan and can see a pathway into the first team under Moore.
Its obviously a big step from youth to first team but watching it last night was a pleasure and i will certainly be making an effort to go the semi final.
The line I have bolded both excites me and makes me nervous.
He might be an Albion fan, but I imagine if some of the bigger clubs in Europe coming asking to speak to him, it would be incredibly hard for him to turn that down.
If we manage to keep him in to his early 20's and get a good few seasons out of him in the first team before he goes on to become a star then so be it.
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Ended up going on the off chance as something else got cancelled and really glad i did.
One of the most enjoyable games i have watched in a long time, the young lads were a credit to the club.
Aside from a 20 minute spell middle of the first half we outplayed Everton and 2 of their goals came from an Albion player error, the football we play is brilliant, they pass the ball with purpose and pace and the skill and technique of the players is brilliant.
Two blokes who were sat by me (think they were with the FA by how they were talking) were saying before that Everton are of the top youth academies and i think they thought they would win comfortably, i think we lost 10-0 to them earlier this season, but last night we were a different level to them.
In the end Everton just lost their rag and were quite cynical, some bad tackles, couple of off the ball incidents (including a forearm smash!) but Albion just kept playing the football.
Stand out players were the Albion number 6 who played left centre half, think he was the captain (might be name Harmon) very good player and organiser. The right back was a good player, Solanke who played centre midfield was quality (he gave first goal away but other than that) and second half Tulloch was brilliant, he played more as a team player and it showed, Everton were scared stiff. The sub who came on Gardner Hickman, scored the 4th goal but also looked a very good player.
However the standout player is Morgan Rogers, if last night is anything to go by, we have something very special. He is a big lad but very quick, brilliant feet, he glides past people and his first touch is top draw, the two blokes i mentioned above both said that pretty much every top team in europe, not just England want him, but the big plus for Albion is apparently he is a big Albion fan and can see a pathway into the first team under Moore.
Its obviously a big step from youth to first team but watching it last night was a pleasure and i will certainly be making an effort to go the semi final.
Agree wholeheartedly with your comments.
My wife said it must have been the best pound that I've spent this season, judging by my demeanor when I got home.
My only gripe? The club did not produce enough team sheets for the attending fans. I guess you were in the same position of not being able to easily identify all of our players, given your questioning of Harmon's identity in your report.
Comedy moment? The Everton goalie claiming serious injury from the slightest contact, and miraculously recovering once the crowd poured scorn on his playacting.
Maybe some of DM's critics should bear in mind his attachment to, and his knowledge of these kids, and his part in their undisputed development.
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What a great achievement by these young lads and also very positive news for the future. Darren Moore has been very influential in the development of many of these lads so well done to him too.
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What was very noticeable was the style we tried to play, playing out from the back and a consistent passing game (if i recall, the 4th goal was not only a brilliant finish but had numerous passes in the buildup)
These lads have obviously been coached this way, not all of them will even get a chance let alone make it at Albion but those that do are at least know the style, system, etc for if / when they do step up.
As per my previous posts, lots of players make debuts and burst on the scene but dont go any further, however at the Albion right now there does seem to be some special groups.
We have the lads who are now involved with the first team reguarly - Harper and Field, and two who seem on the fringes - Edwards and Leko, its catch 22 as if we dont go up then the risk is we will lose Harper to a premier league team, the positive if we dont go up is that the likes of Field, Edwards and Leko (Harper if he stays) are more likely to be given the chance to become regulars.
Behind those there is the age group down with Rogers, Tulloch and a few others last night were very impressive and from Big Daves comments, the age group below them are very special too (i think thats the one that includes Louis Barry)
That to me is one of the reasons why even if we dont go up i want Darren Moore to stay as coach, certainly for the first half of next season and assess it then. Mooro has a ethos and style which is filtering down to the youth section, that was evident last night, everyone knows and plays the same way. Not only that he has worked with all these young lads, he knows them better than anyone, if they are good enough it seems nowadays at the Albion, they will get a chance which is how it should be.
We keep saying we want to look more long term and i think right now we have the best chance to stick to that, we have very talented groups of youngsters and a coach who knows them well. If we sack Moore then whoever comes in will most likely have a different approach and we start again with the new person then being under pressure and if he fails after a year, they get sacked and then so on and repeat.
I have said previous that as a fan i am not the slightest bit bothered about us getting promoted again, i understand the club needs too but as a fan i want to enjoy going to matches, watch us compete, experience highs and lows of emotions, all which stopped in the premier league.
In an ideal world you want to be doing all the above things at the highest level but the premier league is quite unique in sporting terms in that its a closed shop and there are only certain teams who will be successful, thats why i would be quite happy to stay down, bring young lads through and rough diamonds from lower leagues and overseas and enjoy football that way.
The clubs ultimate aim is to get back to the premier league and back on the 40 points survival train but i would much rather take the risk (knowing it may not work out) of seeing the young lads learn, express themselves, play football and develop, trying to (a) get promoted and (b) if we do try to compete in the premier league.
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Fully agree regarding no swift exit for Moore and co. if we don't go up. We have a manager and coaching setup that want to play football. To my knowledge there's been no sniff of any controversy or players falling out with anyone. An exciting crop of youngsters coming through. Let's give it chance to develop and not have hasty reactions to short term dips in 1st team form, or failure to get promoted.
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Has a date been announced for the semi final ?
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Seen a few people asking if the semi final is one or two legs, well last years were two legs so I guess this year will be the same
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_FA_Youth_Cup#Semi-Finals
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I wonder when the last time we got to thr youth cup semi's were? Certainly a first in my lifetime.
If you look at the recent finalists, it is nearly always Chelsea and another team from the big 6.
If we can get past Man City next round, we will be the first team from outside the cartel since Fulham in 2014.
This group certainly looks special, going forwars at least. Lets hope thise Bayern scouts who were in the crowd don't take the likes of Rodgers away from us.
believe it was 1978 having won it in 1976
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FA Youth Cup Semi Final. Man City v WBA. Monday 1 April at 7pm. Baggies Travel WILL be running a coach, travel information to follow next week.
COYB!!!!
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FA Youth Cup Semi Final. Man City v WBA. Monday 1 April at 7pm. Baggies Travel WILL be running a coach, travel information to follow next week.
COYB!!!!
Is it two-legged?
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Is it two-legged?
I’m not 100% certain, but I would suspect so
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Is it two-legged?
Was last year and i'm sure was live on something like ITV4
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I read it is one legged only this year. Changed this year.
FA probably changed it two weeks ago under pressure from Chelsea and man city as they are running scared.
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Morgan Rogers scored twice for England under 17s today in a 5-2 win over Switzerland. He remains the star player in a very, very good team.
If we manage to keep hold of him I wouldn't be surprised if we see a lot of him next season. He looks as good at this level as the likes of Hudson-Odoi did.
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According to this website our game on Monday against Man City is on BT Sport, but its not showing on my tv guide (Virgin Media)
Does anybody know if it is on or not?
Thanks
https://www.live-footballontv.com/live-english-football-on-tv.html
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FA site says it’s on BT too.
http://www.thefa.com/competitions/youth-football/fa-youth-cup/fixtures
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Is it two legs ? I’m sure I read that it’s two legs but haven’t seen any date for it?
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Is it two legs ? I’m sure I read that it’s two legs but haven’t seen any date for it?
No it is only one leg - it used to be two.
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Any more news on tv rights for this game? BT website still showing live French football, Tennis and Baseball. BT sports clesrly have the rights but are choosing not to show it as it not a big enough crowd puller (Sky do the same with Rugby league, having rights to the championship games but only broadcasting 1 or 2 per season). Was hoping it might be online?
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Bit disappointing but doesn't seem to be on. It might seem strange thinking that this game would be competing with Newcastle v Arsenal on Sky but I think there might be an agreement for certain nights that you won't show anything else on the night a rival channel is showing a match. Bit like when Champions league is on BT, Sky have championship games on the red button but not the full blown Sky live match treatment. May or may not be something like that , with some network rivalry tit for tat playing it's part.
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I was under the impression it would be on BT Sport?
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It says on the FA website that it is on BT Sport, there will still be streams knocking about even if it is not
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http://www.thefa.com/news/2019/apr/01/fa-youth-cup-semi-final-man-city-west-brom-live-010419 (http://www.thefa.com/news/2019/apr/01/fa-youth-cup-semi-final-man-city-west-brom-live-010419)
There's a place in the FA Youth Cup Final up for grabs on Monday evening, as Manchester City host West Bromwich Albion in the first of this season's semi-finals.
The game kicks-off at 7pm at City's Academy Stadium and will be shown live on the official Emirates FA Cup YouTube channel.
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Being streamed on the FA YouTube chanel KO 7pm fill yeah boots lads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSj8dn0rAu0&feature=youtu.be
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1-0 down, they look very comfortable against us at the moment. Rogers and Tulloch hardly touched it
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Being streamed on the FA YouTube chanel KO 7pm fill yeah boots lads
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aSj8dn0rAu0&feature=youtu.be
As much as I would like too fill my boots, this is not available in the US. I’d very much appreciate a few updates, please.
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1-1
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would equaliser on 34 minutes, we've got a hold on the game last 10 minutes
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Good finish for the equaliser. Pep watching on
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Rodgers missed a great chance to put us in front
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City mistake and Rogers does well to get a shot in but off the line. The kids on both sides look very good on the ball, very composed
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Come on lads the prize of a Final at home against Liverpool awaits, what a great night that could be.
The commentator said left back and skipper George Harmon has a season ticket on the Smethwick.- love it
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With the way football is now, I don’t think I could be happier than seeing us do well consistently in the premiership and finishing mid table with 4-5 home grown players.
I wouldn’t even care if they left as I know they have a duty to do the best they can for themselves, as long as they conduct themselves in the right way with us. It would be great to see them go on and win things and play for England, while we get a decent fee
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2-1 city now. The lads are doing well but City look like they mean business. We're struggling to keep the ball. And City just hit the crossbar.
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City are a much better side, hopefully they tire like Everton did.
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3-1 now
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3-1 OG.
2nd City goal was a dreadful GK error.
Typical Albion ;D
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3-2 Tulloch
Awful mistake from the City player. Game on.
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4-2, these lads defend worse than the seniors...
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Went tonight, thought we had little belief and gave them too much respect. When we equalised it seemed to give us a lift and then Morgan missed a great chance. Second half they took over and it was men against boys.
Fantastic achievement to even reach the semi final, when City have players they have brought in from Barcelona and god knows where else for our local lads to give them a game and put them under pressure at times was nice to see but they had the class that mattered and thats not knocking our lads at all. The Academy stadium is impressive and shows what money can buy you.
Find it strange that it was only over one leg and the final the same when in past years both have been two legged games, maybe over two legs we might have done it with a decent crowd at home as tonight there was more Albion there albeit made up by it seemed almost all the full time academy lads and staff there.
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Great achievement by a talented group of youngsters, no shame in losing to a team that can buy kids parents to play for them.
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Can anyone enlighten me as to how the choice of venue was decided? If the FA was going to change from the the two-legged format, surely a neutral venue like St George’s would have been fairer.
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Shame as I'd have fancied us to overturn that if it was over two legs.
The futures bright if we are clever and hang on to these lads.
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I thought Nathan Ferguson was our best player on the night. Hard to judge our forward players as they had so little of the ball.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47766043
In an era when big clubs recruit teenagers from overseas and claim them as academy products, a true grow-your-own plan conceived by Dan Ashworth over a decade ago looks set to bear fruit just in time to breathe fresh life into West Bromwich Albion.
The Baggies reported a pre-tax loss of £7.5m on Monday and confirmed they had "exhausted our funds" by spending almost £60m on new players and increased wages last season, a campaign which still ended in relegation from the Premier League.
A few hours after that financial announcement, the Championship club played in their first FA Youth Cup semi-final for 41 years.
West Brom did not make it to the final, but they pushed Manchester City all the way before eventually losing 4-2.
That they went as close as they did was a remarkable achievement. City, who have raised £153m from sales of young players including Jadon Sancho and Brahim Diaz to Borussia Dortmund and Real Madrid respectively, were watched by Pep Guardiola and played three former Barcelona youngsters and two other overseas recruits in their starting line-up.
In contrast, West Brom's included just one player who comes from outside the West Midlands: Oxford-born defender Pablo Martinez. Most of their team joined the club when they were still in primary school.
The brainchild is Ashworth's.
He spent eight years with the Baggies, the last five as technical director, before joining the Football Association in 2012 where he masterminded the phenomenal success of England's age-group teams, including World Cup success at under-17 and under-20 level in 2017.
Ashworth was the man who opted against operating a scouting network at West Brom because he "wanted to get things right locally" and made the changes that got the club their Category One academy status in 2012.
Spending the millions required is not an insignificant undertaking.
At the time West Brom needed coaching, medical, sports science and recruitment staff. They also had to lay a new Uefa standard pitch next to the club's indoor training area.
Some clubs, Huddersfield for instance, have decided the expense is not worth the reward.
When West Brom lost excellent prospects in the form of striker Izzy Brown to Chelsea as a 16-year-old in 2013 after one senior appearance, former England Under-17 international Jerome Sinclair to Liverpool in 2011 when he was 14 and Wales forward Matt Smith to Manchester City at the same age in 2013, they might have concluded the same thing.
Jerome Sinclair played in a League Cup tie for Liverpool against West Brom in 2012 aged 16 after leaving the Baggies
Jerome Sinclair (left) played in a League Cup tie for Liverpool against West Brom in 2012 aged 16 and six days after leaving the Baggies
However, even though Ashworth had moved on, West Brom kept faith with his plan.
"We stick with what we believe in," said academy manager Mark Harrison.
"I am an ex-professional but I also worked as a teacher. Governments brought in initiatives but they would change the strategy every three or four years. It always struck me that if you changed things so often, how would it ever work?
"Dan was our first academy manager. He put down almost all the foundations we have in place.
"It takes time, as you saw with England. But the work we have done over the past 10 years is what led us to this situation."
The current group won Premier League tournaments for under-12s and under-15s. Plenty of scouts have seen them do it. This time, West Brom have been able to keep them.
"The pathway is the critical thing," said Harrison.
"We have a plan for every player when they come into the building at 16. Also, we have a lot of staff who have been around the club for a long time who know and understand the younger players who are coming through. That benefits everyone. We are a small club compared to Manchester City but everyone knows each other. You can't underestimate the value of that.
"Obviously you can never tell for certain but I would argue if those lads who left had stayed with us, they would have made more first-team appearances than they actually have."
In the squads selected for the four England age-group teams from under-20s to under-17s last month, West Brom had four representatives - the same as Liverpool, Manchester United and Tottenham. Only four clubs had more; none come from the Championship.
Two of their semi-final team have already made their senior debuts. Another academy product, 20-year-old midfielder Sam Field, has made 38 first-team appearances. Yet another, 21-year-old Kyle Edwards, scored the winner at Brentford on 16 March.
In releasing details of West Brom's finances, chief executive Mark Jenkins said there are 'extreme differences' between being in the Championship and Premier League next season.
Whoever ends up replacing Darren Moore as first-team manager could find Ashworth's vision very helpful indeed.
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https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47766043
In an era when big clubs recruit teenagers from overseas and claim them as academy products, a true grow-your-own plan conceived by Dan Ashworth over a decade ago looks set to bear fruit just in time to breathe fresh life into West Bromwich Albion.
The Baggies reported a pre-tax loss of £7.5m on Monday and confirmed they had "exhausted our funds" by spending almost £60m on new players and increased wages last season, a campaign which still ended in relegation from the Premier League.
A few hours after that financial announcement, the Championship club played in their first FA Youth Cup semi-final for 41 years.
West Brom did not make it to the final, but they pushed Manchester City all the way before eventually losing 4-2.
That they went as close as they did was a remarkable achievement. City, who have raised £153m from sales of young players including Jadon Sancho and Brahim Diaz to Borussia Dortmund and Real Madrid respectively, were watched by Pep Guardiola and played three former Barcelona youngsters and two other overseas recruits in their starting line-up.
In contrast, West Brom's included just one player who comes from outside the West Midlands: Oxford-born defender Pablo Martinez. Most of their team joined the club when they were still in primary school.
The brainchild is Ashworth's.
He spent eight years with the Baggies, the last five as technical director, before joining the Football Association in 2012 where he masterminded the phenomenal success of England's age-group teams, including World Cup success at under-17 and under-20 level in 2017.
Ashworth was the man who opted against operating a scouting network at West Brom because he "wanted to get things right locally" and made the changes that got the club their Category One academy status in 2012.
Spending the millions required is not an insignificant undertaking.
At the time West Brom needed coaching, medical, sports science and recruitment staff. They also had to lay a new Uefa standard pitch next to the club's indoor training area.
Some clubs, Huddersfield for instance, have decided the expense is not worth the reward.
When West Brom lost excellent prospects in the form of striker Izzy Brown to Chelsea as a 16-year-old in 2013 after one senior appearance, former England Under-17 international Jerome Sinclair to Liverpool in 2011 when he was 14 and Wales forward Matt Smith to Manchester City at the same age in 2013, they might have concluded the same thing.
Jerome Sinclair played in a League Cup tie for Liverpool against West Brom in 2012 aged 16 after leaving the Baggies
Jerome Sinclair (left) played in a League Cup tie for Liverpool against West Brom in 2012 aged 16 and six days after leaving the Baggies
However, even though Ashworth had moved on, West Brom kept faith with his plan.
"We stick with what we believe in," said academy manager Mark Harrison.
"I am an ex-professional but I also worked as a teacher. Governments brought in initiatives but they would change the strategy every three or four years. It always struck me that if you changed things so often, how would it ever work?
"Dan was our first academy manager. He put down almost all the foundations we have in place.
"It takes time, as you saw with England. But the work we have done over the past 10 years is what led us to this situation."
The current group won Premier League tournaments for under-12s and under-15s. Plenty of scouts have seen them do it. This time, West Brom have been able to keep them.
"The pathway is the critical thing," said Harrison.
"We have a plan for every player when they come into the building at 16. Also, we have a lot of staff who have been around the club for a long time who know and understand the younger players who are coming through. That benefits everyone. We are a small club compared to Manchester City but everyone knows each other. You can't underestimate the value of that.
"Obviously you can never tell for certain but I would argue if those lads who left had stayed with us, they would have made more first-team appearances than they actually have."
In the squads selected for the four England age-group teams from under-20s to under-17s last month, West Brom had four representatives - the same as Liverpool, Manchester United and Tottenham. Only four clubs had more; none come from the Championship.
Two of their semi-final team have already made their senior debuts. Another academy product, 20-year-old midfielder Sam Field, has made 38 first-team appearances. Yet another, 21-year-old Kyle Edwards, scored the winner at Brentford on 16 March.
In releasing details of West Brom's finances, chief executive Mark Jenkins said there are 'extreme differences' between being in the Championship and Premier League next season.
Whoever ends up replacing Darren Moore as first-team manager could find Ashworth's vision very helpful indeed.
interesting article, I have always believed Dan Ashworth's legacy was the Academy, & it was his achievements there that got him the England job.
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Managed to watch around 60 minutes of the game.
Thought Ferguson looked tidy defensively, not sure he's ready for involvement with the first team yet but could definitely do a job on loan somewhere for a few months.
Our front line were fairly quite which was expected, although Tulloch did grab a goal, Rogers had a good chance just before half time, could have been a different game if that had gone in.
The lad who grabbed the firs goal - Soule? looks a tidy player as does the centre midfielder, think his names Aziz.
Some of Man City's players looked a class above which was expected, the lad in the middle Doyle looks like he will make a decent career, as does the centre back who I think was signed from Barca.
Good experience for the lads and one which should do them no harm going forward.
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Even though defeated, the lads gave a very good account of themselves and the quality of the clubs Academy. Well done lads!
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Managed to watch around 60 minutes of the game.
Thought Ferguson looked tidy defensively, not sure he's ready for involvement with the first team yet but could definitely do a job on loan somewhere for a few months.
Our front line were fairly quite which was expected, although Tulloch did grab a goal, Rogers had a good chance just before half time, could have been a different game if that had gone in.
The lad who grabbed the firs goal - Soule? looks a tidy player as does the centre midfielder, think his names Aziz.
Some of Man City's players looked a class above which was expected, the lad in the middle Doyle looks like he will make a decent career, as does the centre back who I think was signed from Barca.
Good experience for the lads and one which should do them no harm going forward.
Ferguson is decent as you say but I worry about his height, he looks about 5’ 10†which is tiny for a CB. His career may be more suited coming forward into CDM and playing the Makelele role?
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Perhaps the posters who repeatedly call the hierarchy of the club a joke and a shambles should bear in mind that this aspect of WBAFC is far from deficient. The club could have scrapped the project at any time, and I am surprised and gratified that it survived the Pulis era.
Congratulations to the young guys and the dedicated coaches!
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I found that a really interesting article and possibly the most positive things I have heard about our club in a long time. Maybe the future is bright after all?
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I found that a really interesting article and possibly the most positive things I have heard about our club in a long time. Maybe the future is bright after all?
i would be seriously considering bringing the staff through with the kids, get a conveyor belt of success underway, interesting Dan Ashworths methods / philosiphies seems to be bearing fruit for the national team as well.
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Was told last night that the lad who came on as a late sub Louie Barry is one of the best finishers the Academy staff have seen come through so one to watch.
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Went tonight, thought we had little belief and gave them too much respect. When we equalised it seemed to give us a lift and then Morgan missed a great chance. Second half they took over and it was men against boys.
Fantastic achievement to even reach the semi final, when City have players they have brought in from Barcelona and god knows where else for our local lads to give them a game and put them under pressure at times was nice to see but they had the class that mattered and thats not knocking our lads at all. The Academy stadium is impressive and shows what money can buy you.
Find it strange that it was only over one leg and the final the same when in past years both have been two legged games, maybe over two legs we might have done it with a decent crowd at home as tonight there was more Albion there albeit made up by it seemed almost all the full time academy lads and staff there.
Tend to agree, there was an air of confidence from Man City, their body language showed there determination to win, they expected it. Baggies looked a little like rabbits in the headlights, blinking and mesmerised, that's not to say we don't have skill or ability, just lower expectations.
They played like a team we didn't :(
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Was told last night that the lad who came on as a late sub Louie Barry is one of the best finishers the Academy staff have seen come through so one to watch.
Everybody wants to sign him, including from abroad. I will be amazed if he is here at the end of the season
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Everybody wants to sign him, including from abroad. I will be amazed if he is here at the end of the season
This is the problem we have and if we either don't start paying money to compete with the other offers (within reason) or start giving youth a chance in the first team then we can have no complaints if they all start going elsewhere
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One of the things which I can't understand is that DM had a lot to do with bringing them through, but didn't really give them a chance when he was head coach.
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Everybody wants to sign him, including from abroad. I will be amazed if he is here at the end of the season
Isn't this the lad who have Bayern and Madrid scouts watching him recently?
Seems to score goals for fun, just a shame for us as a club that he's getting so much interested at such a young age.
Will be surprised if we ever see him in the first team if he continues at this rate of progression.
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A massively changed Albion U18’s side held Liverpool to a 3-3 draw while fielding mostly first year scholars (15/16 year olds) just two days after losing in the youth cup to Man City. Came from behind twice and lead into injury time. Scorers were Stanley Asomugha, Harry Williams and Louie Barry.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/april/albion-u18s-3-liverpool-u18s-3/
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Isn't this the lad who have Bayern and Madrid scouts watching him recently?
Seems to score goals for fun, just a shame for us as a club that he's getting so much interested at such a young age.
Will be surprised if we ever see him in the first team if he continues at this rate of progression.
according to an E&S article, under 18’s are not allowed to move to foreign clubs but can move at 16 if within the European Economic area. He’s 16 in June... A no deal brexit would pull us out of the EEA and we can hold him from foreign teams for another two years! ;D
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/04/04/west-brom-keen-to-keep-teenager-amid-barcelona-interest/
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/april/burton-looks-ahead-to-old-trafford-experience-for-pl2-side/ (https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/april/burton-looks-ahead-to-old-trafford-experience-for-pl2-side/)
U23 team are at Old Trafford Friday night. Free entry if anyone is in the area.
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/under-23s-free-entry-at-old-trafford-v-west-brom-5-april-2019 (https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/under-23s-free-entry-at-old-trafford-v-west-brom-5-april-2019)
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Feel sorry for our youngsters when I saw the performance from those so-called experienced players this season.
Harper, Field and Edwards deserve more chances definitely.
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You'd think under 23 manager in charge he'd be more inclined to pick from the academy but field has been bombed out the squad entirely, Harper hasn't played a minute since his first game, and Edwards was removed as quick as he came in.
Either he doesn't rate them at all or it makes life far easier to keep the senior pros happy and playing. We've been atrocious in midfield every game under Shan so it's hard to believe Harper has dropped out of contention entirely by merit.
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You'd think under 23 manager in charge he'd be more inclined to pick from the academy but field has been bombed out the squad entirely, Harper hasn't played a minute since his first game, and Edwards was removed as quick as he came in.
Either he doesn't rate them at all or it makes life far easier to keep the senior pros happy and playing. We've been atrocious in midfield every game under Shan so it's hard to believe Harper has dropped out of contention entirely by merit.
Shan can't pick field/Harper
Where do they play, who would miss out .....who's actually picking the team ?
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Shan can't pick field/Harper
Where do they play, who would miss out .....who's actually picking the team ?
No one picks Field except Megson he's not good enough . Harper is rightly out of the side until he signs a deal.
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No one picks Field except Megson he's not good enough . Harper is rightly out of the side until he signs a deal.
For the sake of the same old circle i'll bite :D
Proved he's good enough in a higher league, can tackle, can pass the ball which are two things lacking from our midfield at this time.
As for Harper I personally do not care about his contract at the moment, we cannot afford to leave players out over contract issues. Would we be doing the same with a more experienced player ? Not a chance, if he improves the side which he will be doing then he should be starting.
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No one picks Field except Megson he's not good enough . Harper is rightly out of the side until he signs a deal.
Field not better than any of the clowns who played today? Why is Harper out until he signs a deal? are you suggesting seriously that he is less committed than our loan signings who will all walk away at the end of the season ?
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No one picks Field except Megson he's not good enough . Harper is rightly out of the side until he signs a deal.
Right now I'd rather megson than Shan and suggest megson has way more experience .
Not picking a good player whilst paying him is stupidity, we both know that your mate brunt is having too much influence
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Been very disappointed with Darren and Jimmy for not getting more youngsters in the match day squad and first eleven this season. Totally frustrated that youth has been stiffeld by these coaches for what ever reason.
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No one picks Field except Megson he's not good enough . Harper is rightly out of the side until he signs a deal.
And why would Harper sign for a team which doesn't play him? Especially when that team is under-performing? Not to mention that it's not his fault we didn't recognise his talent earlier and reward him with a contract at the start of the season - which would have avoided being in this situation altogether.
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No one picks Field except Megson he's not good enough . Harper is rightly out of the side until he signs a deal.
So, we alienate him, making his departure even more likely, brilliant strategy
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So, we alienate him, making his departure even more likely, brilliant strategy
There is a deal on the table if he was going to sign it he would have. There is no need for a strategy, he's leaving so why waste anymore time on him?
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There is a deal on the table if he was going to sign it he would have. There is no need for a strategy, he's leaving so why waste anymore time on him?
Purely because the midfield is lacking what he offers.
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Purely because the midfield is lacking what he offers.
Agreed, Livermore should never play for us again while Rekeem is on the books but I understand why they're doing it.
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Agreed, Livermore should never play for us again while Rekeem is on the books but I understand why they're doing it.
:D :D When fit Barry and Harper should be starters but the other is tough between our central midfielders Johansen, Morrison, Field, Livermore and Hoolahan. I'd give Hoolahan a go, offers more creativity than the rest.
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:D :D When fit Barry and Harper should be starters but the other is tough between our central midfielders Johansen, Morrison, Field, Livermore and Hoolahan. I'd give Hoolahan a go, offers more creativity than the rest.
Can't see Barry playing for us again. Brunt must play even if it is only for the marginal gains in key moments from set pieces (in your mind; as you know I think his general play merits a shirt).
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Can't see Barry playing for us again. Brunt must play even if it is only for the marginal gains in key moments from set pieces (in your mind; as you know I think his general play merits a shirt).
Last I heard Barry is injured and he does want to play next season although it won't be for us as we need to get wages down.
Brunt is not a central midfielder hence I didn't mention him, its more than just in my mind, he cannot tackle, he gives away stupid free kicks in dangerous places and in the middle we need youth and players who can get around the pitch. We're not the sort of team that can carry a luxury player just for set pieces, he offers nothing else so for us to move on he has to be a bench warmer or next season at left back if Gibbs moves on in the Summer. By putting him in the middle you take away his crossing which is the best asset he has.
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Last I heard Barry is injured and he does want to play next season although it won't be for us as we need to get wages down.
Brunt is not a central midfielder hence I didn't mention him, its more than just in my mind, he cannot tackle, he gives away stupid free kicks in dangerous places and in the middle we need youth and players who can get around the pitch. We're not the sort of team that can carry a luxury player just for set pieces, he offers nothing else so for us to move on he has to be a bench warmer or next season at left back if Gibbs moves on in the Summer. By putting him in the middle you take away his crossing which is the best asset he has.
Shan would have no points from 4 games or very close to it, if it wasn't for Brunt. Best of the centre mids again today... as ever, agree to disagree. ;D
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Shan would have no points from 4 games or very close to it, if it wasn't for Brunt. Best of the centre mids again today... as ever, agree to disagree. ;D
Purely hypothetical to say, without Brunt we may not have needed set pieces plus there are also others in the squad capable but then they hardly ever get chance to take one.
As for today thats scraping the barrel after a performance like that.
We've needed a freshness to the midfield for the past few years, we have youth coming through capable but are again getting overlooked here but getting recognition elsewhere. Players get old and no matter who they are, how long they have been here they have to be moved on whether thats on the bench or out the club altogether.
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Whether people like it or not, we are going to have to rely on our academy graduates next year if we don't get promoted (as is looking increasingly likely).
Our loan signings will depart, as will a considerable number of the first-team squad - most likely those who are good and in their prime (for example Gibbs, Phillips, Hegazi etc.). That's going to leave us with a pretty thin squad and I know that I'd much rather we turn to the likes of Edwards, Burke, Leko and Rogers than fall back on ageing free-transfer pros looking for a final paycheque. Sadly I doubt we'll have the money to go out and buy proven players in their prime.
It's such a shame we continue to mismanage youth players as we are currently doing with Harper. Only have to look at how well Tyler Roberts is doing over at promotion rivals Leeds. Then again, if he was still here he probably would barely have played outside of a league cup appearance or two.
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There is a deal on the table if he was going to sign it he would have. There is no need for a strategy, he's leaving so why waste anymore time on him?
All football contracts are a negotiation, especially with how detailed they are now. It's not like we make an offer, and he takes it or leaves it, they'll be constantly talking about giving a little here, taking a little there.
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U18's beat Man City 3-1 over the weekend and have finished 9th in the Premier League North division.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/april/albion-u18s-3-man-city-u18s-1/
Another goal from Morgan Rogers.
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palace and Bournemouth interested in o'shea.
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At least as O'Shea is 20 and under contract we would get some money for him. If we don't go up though, we could in theory lose Hegazi and Dawson, Toisin is on loan so 2 or 3 gaps at CB are likely. Will O'Shea and/or Fitzwater be given the chance ?
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At least as O'Shea is 20 and under contract we would get some money for him. If we don't go up though, we could in theory lose Hegazi and Dawson, Toisin is on loan so 2 or 3 gaps at CB are likely. Will O'Shea and/or Fitzwater be given the chance ?
Haven't seen too much of O'Shea so cant comment on him, but Fitzwater was told he would be 4th choice at the start of the season wasn't he? He chose to go back out on loan to get more games under his belt, granted Walsall have been pretty poor this season so I'm guessing his reviews wont be as good as they were last year.
As you said though, with Tosin going back and potentially losing Dawson/Hegazi, they could find themselves as the top couple of centre backs at the club at least until replacments have been found.
Would be a good chance for them to stake a claim to become first choice for next season (more likely if we are to remain in the championship).
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At least as O'Shea is 20 and under contract we would get some money for him. If we don't go up though, we could in theory lose Hegazi and Dawson, Toisin is on loan so 2 or 3 gaps at CB are likely. Will O'Shea and/or Fitzwater be given the chance ?
Unless I've missed something regarding a twelve month option, Dara O'Shea's contract expires at the end of May.
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Unless I've missed something regarding a twelve month option, Dara O'Shea's contract expires at the end of May.
Assume he was referring more to the fact he's over 18 so wont just go for the token Academy payment. That said can't see a tribunal giving us much for him either.
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Jamie Soule linked with Dortmund now. Would be a shame if we never see the likes of him and Rogers in the first team.
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Jamie Soule linked with Dortmund now. Would be a shame if we never see the likes of him and Rogers in the first team.
still under contract signed two and half year deal, just hope we get a coach who will blood some of these exceptional talents that our on clubs books. That's the biggest issue I had with Darren he didn't trust these kids even though he'd been around them for four or five years.
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I'd like to think that our prospective new manager will be considered on the basis that he can develop talent from the Academy.
We can see some of this years crop already being courted by some of the big name clubs.
It was sad to see last week end that in the Leeds squad were 3 of our ex-Academy lads.
Roberts, Roofe and Brown.
If only...............
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Unless I've missed something regarding a twelve month option, Dara O'Shea's contract expires at the end of May.
I thought he was contracted beyond this year but you seem to be right it's to the end of May. Begs the question, are we on the ball enough with contract extensions ? Maybe we tried to extend or maybe we have doubts about him...but if we actually rate players (and there's no reason to suspect we don't rate O'Shea) then sort out the contract before sending them out somewhere on loan.
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Just been reading one or two reports about our academy and it makes me think what's the point?
We're spending all this money developing new talent for other clubs to come in and take off us,it can't be cost effective.
We either have to tie them up in golden handcuffs or make the club more attractive for them to stay here.
We need to be seen as a team that has ambition. At the minute that's a difficult selling point to get over
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Just been reading one or two reports about our academy and it makes me think what's the point?
We're spending all this money developing new talent for other clubs to come in and take off us,it can't be cost effective.
We either have to tie them up in golden handcuffs or make the club more attractive for them to stay here.
We need to be seen as a team that has ambition. At the minute that's a difficult selling point to get over
There has been no-one with any real ambition at the Albion since Paul Thompson and herein lies one huge, huge problem.
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Just been reading one or two reports about our academy and it makes me think what's the point?
We're spending all this money developing new talent for other clubs to come in and take off us,it can't be cost effective.
We either have to tie them up in golden handcuffs or make the club more attractive for them to stay here.
We need to be seen as a team that has ambition. At the minute that's a difficult selling point to get over
Have more kids left under the raider? I’ve not seen anything.
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Just been reading one or two reports about our academy and it makes me think what's the point?
We're spending all this money developing new talent for other clubs to come in and take off us,it can't be cost effective.
We either have to tie them up in golden handcuffs or make the club more attractive for them to stay here.
We need to be seen as a team that has ambition. At the minute that's a difficult selling point to get over
It probably has been cost effective over the last 4 or 5 years. That said I agree to an extent. We need to commit to a high energy attacking style, using a lot of younger players. Show them that's what we are about as a club. We can still bring in a few from outside but if we continue to be so slow in bringing our own players through then the better ones like Rogers and Barry will be moving on without us ever seeing them.
I think a lot of the best young players, not just at our club, may hope to play a year or two for their home clubs but they will have dreams of top 6 prem clubs or top European sides in the future. If we get them to stay for that year or two then at least we get to see them play and hopefully cash in more money if/when they leave.
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Players (24 and under)
Retained:
Oliver Burke, Kyle Edwards, Nathan Ferguson, Sam Field, Jack Fitzwater, Kevin Healy, Jonathan Leko, Max Melbourne, Tom Solanke, Jamie Soule, Rayhaan Tulloch, Kane Wilson; Zak Delaney, Taylor Gardner-Hickman, Alex Gilbert, Josh Griffiths, Carrick Hill, Toby King, Morgan Rogers, Lewis Smith, Finley Thorndike, Jacob Wakeling, Remarl Williams, Harry Williams.
Extended contract:
Dara O'Shea, Alex Palmer; Eoin Ashton, Stanley Asomugha, Zak Brown, Ted Cann, Tyrese Dyce, Pablo Martinez, Yusuff Ojebode, Tom Sharpe, Peter Taylor, Aksum White.
Offered new contract:
Rekeem Harper, Bradley House, Callum Morton; Finn Azaz, George Harmon; Jack Chambers, Nick Clayton-Phillips, Sam Wilding.
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A large number of academy players retained, and yet very few of them seem genuinely close to getting an extended run in our first team.
We need to make up for our errors next season, and get Leko, Edwards and potentially Field out on loan ready for the start of next season. They need time in league 1 (or maybe lower Championship in Field’s case) to get more minutes under their belts, as this year was a wasted season for all 3 given their ages.
I’m surprised to see us extend Fitzwater’s contract as he seems to have found his level at league 1.
Biggest hopes have to be Tulloch, Soule, Rogers and Ferguson. It would be nice if Ferguson went out on loan this year, same goes for Soule.
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We need to make up for our errors next season, and get Leko, Edwards and potentially Field out on loan ready for the start of next season. They need time in league 1 (or maybe lower Championship in Field’s case) to get more minutes under their belts, as this year was a wasted season for all 3 given their ages.
All three will be part of the first team squad here next season, no point sending them on loan.
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All three will be part of the first team squad here next season, no point sending them on loan.
Agree - especially seeing as our budget has seemingly shrunk considerably.
From the limited game time I've seen Field and Edwards are good enough for this division, whereas I don't think Leko is as good.
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Agree - especially seeing as our budget has seemingly shrunk considerably.
From the limited game time I've seen Field and Edwards are good enough for this division, whereas I don't think Leko is as good.
Agree. Field and Edwards should be included in the match-day squad regularly next season.
Also I think we should keep Kane Wilson and one of the Fitzwater/O'shea for right back and CB rotation.
But Leko is still too raw and need more game time in other team or lower division urgently.
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"The truth about that shock West Brom transfer rumour"
We need to hang on to our youngsters, we should be the ones making decisions on their futures
Source: https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-soule-dortmund-transfer-16326428
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So, we could lose Jamie Soule, Louie Barry and Rekeem Harper all in the space of a season for minimal compensation as they are all going abroad.
Three England internationals, the jewels in our academy...
You have to ask the question, what is the point?
Might as well close the academy down.
Matt Smith, Yan Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Jerome Sinclair all poached. Three more to add to the list.
7 academy stars nicked in 4ish years...
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Yes it's pretty depressing really.
So Soule is 18 with one more year left on his deal. We don't know the level of Dortmund's interest but if they want him now, we'd get some money and presumably a sell-on clause.
If we keep him for the final year of his contract we'd almost be in a Harper situation....try and extend his contract now, give him games, show him there's a future here....then he'll probably go for peanuts next summer.
Re the academy generally, we are going to find it hard to hang on to the very best products but we have to hope the next level to that, the likes of Edwards, Field and some others, we can hang on to and get value from....there are quite a few other names emerging also.
I'm fairly sure we won't have lost money on the academy over the past 5 years, taking Wood, Thorne, Roofe, Berahino, Roberts into account.
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Someone posted a couple of weeks ago that he suspects the Albion coaches aren’t very good. I’m starting to think myself that is true. It’s probably the case at other English clubs too.
We have past their best experienced players dictating to the club over contracts instead of the club demanding they leave. The culture is too soft.
We could have blooded several players and with the right coaching could’ve dramatically improved over a season or 2. Where the hell is Kyle Edwards since Brentford away?
Indeed what is the point of the academy if prospects leave after a few appearances?
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Soule seems a strange one. He’s nearly 19 so I can’t see Dortmund having too much of a genuine interest next season if he’s not got some minutes in the championship.
You’d imagine the club will be nervous to put him in or even loan him given Harper and Roberts situations though. It may seem cruel to a kid but I’d consider sidelining him until he signs a new contract if he’s a genuine prospect.
Roberts and Harper both appear to have gone badly because we lacked that little bit of faith, and by the time they ‘prove’ enough other clubs are prepared to pay more.
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Someone posted a couple of weeks ago that he suspects the Albion coaches aren’t very good. I’m starting to think myself that is true. It’s probably the case at other English clubs too.
We have past their best experienced players dictating to the club over contracts instead of the club demanding they leave. The culture is too soft.
We could have blooded several players and with the right coaching could’ve dramatically improved over a season or 2. Where the hell is Kyle Edwards since Brentford away?
Indeed what is the point of the academy if prospects leave after a few appearances?
Good question - it's the type of thing that tends to happen to our young players. He played a loose pass at Bristol City which ended with their 2nd goal, was taken off when we changed shape for 2nd half. He looks a decent player to me though. Just wonder a couple of things - presumably we paid a loan fee for Murphy so there's always a tendency to want to get some value from signings. Also, we don't know, but there could have been one of these clauses for Murphy stating that he has to play a certain number of games or we pay more.
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/may/young-lions-honour-for-baggies-pair/
Field and Edwards selected for the Toulon Tournament in France this Summer
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I wonder if it will be televised, hope so.
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I wonder if it will be televised, hope so.
Usually on Eurosport I think
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/june/duo-start-in-toulon-tournament-opener/
Field played full game, Edwards played 75 mins. Forgot it was on to be honest so no idea how either played.
Next game is tomorrow but team is usually rotated if I remember from other years.
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England 1 - Japan 2, dour uninspiring performance by all accounts.
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Dara O’Shea about to play for Ireland against China. also playing is former youth player Zach Elbouzedi.
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U-23’s Pre season game against Leamington confirmed for the 27th July at 3:00pm
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Bit of a blow for the baggies
Percy reporting that Mark Harrison is leaving us after 13 years to join Villa in a similar role.
Has played a huge part in building our academy. I did hear a whisper that he has had a falling out with Jenkins but not sure on how much truth there is with that.
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That is an enormous blow if Harrison is leaving to become head of Villa Academy. The Academy is one of the great success stories at the club, producing more England iinternationals than Man U and L'pool. If that means less quality players being produced within the club, that makes us even more dependant on what we can find in the transfer market, with reduced funds available.
The club must try to find the best possible replacement for Harrison. This is an important position.
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Another blow to the Academy - Sky Sports Is reporting that Barcelona are interested in signing talented 15 year old striker Louie Barry who has been at the club since he was six. Bloody daylight robbery!
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Another blow to the Academy - Sky Sports Is reporting that Barcelona are interested in signing talented 15 year old striker Louie Barry who has been at the club since he was six. Bloody daylight robbery!
Whilst you can see the attraction of Barca for a young kid, his parents ought to be thinking about what taking him away from his school might do to his overall education.
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As I said in another thread, there is a possibility we could loose some of our better younger players to Vile if Harrison goes there
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To be honest, our academy is great but we've not had a structure which has enabled us to get the best out of it (financially by selling on talent or by fast tracking into the first team). It's too simple to say we've had Pulis who didn't trust kids but instead, the way our club has been run for 10 years on a very short term basis has nullified any positive effects the academy could've had.
You use it or loose it!
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As I said in another thread, there is a possibility we could loose some of our better younger players to Vile if Harrison goes there
Have to say, I doubt that for two reasons:
He is almost certain to have a clause in his contract where he is prohibited to poach any of our players or disclose any of our plans for a period of time.
As GM, Mark Harrison would have a strategic position within the academy & it's unlikely that any of the scholars would have any direct contact with him.
I believe Villa want him for his expertise in developing their academy.
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Have to say, I doubt that for two reasons:
He is almost certain to have a clause in his contract where he is prohibited to poach any of our players or disclose any of our plans for a period of time.
As GM, Mark Harrison would have a strategic position within the academy & it's unlikely that any of the scholars would have any direct contact with him.
I believe Villa want him for his expertise in developing their academy.
I do hope you are right baggiejohn, but in my experience contract clauses like those you refer to are not always adhered to, ways can be found round them
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Howkins has joined Newport county.
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Jenkins cutting cost no doubt, haven't got a first team coach so why bother with academy manager. Best crop of youngsters coming through since 75 and clowns in charge are doing their best to f it up. Lai and Jenkins do one.
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Disappointing news re Harrison. He's always sounded like someone who is dedicated and knows what they are doing in any stuff I've read about him.
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Whilst you can see the attraction of Barca for a young kid, his parents ought to be thinking about what taking him away from his school might do to his overall education.
I should imagine an education would take second place to a career in football. Especially when it’s with one of the worlds top clubs. He can always catch up on algebra at a later date. :D
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I should imagine an education would take second place to a career in football. Especially when it’s with one of the worlds top clubs. He can always catch up on algebra at a later date. :D
I would suggest he will probably receive as good as if not better education in Spain, whilst becoming bilingual
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Have to say, I doubt that for two reasons:
He is almost certain to have a clause in his contract where he is prohibited to poach any of our players or disclose any of our plans for a period of time.
As GM, Mark Harrison would have a strategic position within the academy & it's unlikely that any of the scholars would have any direct contact with him.
I believe Villa want him for his expertise in developing their academy.
No idea about the contract clause thing, but take it from me, Mark Harrison knows every academy player from U9 to U23. Every single one.
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I would suggest he will probably receive as good as if not better education in Spain, whilst becoming bilingual
He’ll have to learn Catalan then. Which will come in useful in Barcelona and Mallorca. ;D
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How good is this kid of ours?
Does Bilic have a track record of bringing young lads through to the first team?
How old is the kid,16?
Is he as good as Trevor Francis or Rooney at 16?
Surely Bilic would want to see all our players before letting him go and we wouldn't be so stupid to let him go before appointing a new HC would we?
If he is good enough play him,keep him in the first team squad it'd be great to see him succeed with us.
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How good is this kid of ours?
Does Bilic have a track record of bringing young lads through to the first team?
How old is the kid,16?
Is he as good as Trevor Francis or Rooney at 16?
Surely Bilic would want to see all our players before letting him go and we wouldn't be so stupid to let him go before appointing a new HC would we?
If he is good enough play him,keep him in the first team squad it'd be great to see him succeed with us.
Think he's 15, hence why we can't sign him to a contract. It's not about us "letting him go", it's about us being unable to stop him if he wanted to move.
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He’ll have to learn Catalan then. Which will come in useful in Barcelona and Mallorca. ;D
He could end up being trilingual then, as most people in Barcelona are bilingual speaking Catalan and Spanish ;)
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How good is this kid of ours?
Does Bilic have a track record of bringing young lads through to the first team?
How old is the kid,16?
Is he as good as Trevor Francis or Rooney at 16?
Surely Bilic would want to see all our players before letting him go and we wouldn't be so stupid to let him go before appointing a new HC would we?
If he is good enough play him,keep him in the first team squad it'd be great to see him succeed with us.
He's 15.
The one good factor is he's been at us from a very young age and is meant to be a big baggies fan, the downside is its arguably one of the biggest clubs in the world wanting him and there isn't really too much we can do about it.
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He's 15.
The one good factor is he's been at us from a very young age and is meant to be a big baggies fan, the downside is its arguably one of the biggest clubs in the world wanting him and there isn't really too much we can do about it.
It's the biggest attraction in the world surely? Put yourself in Barry's shoes. Personally as an Albion fan I'd turn down the Liverpool's and Manchester's but Barcelona? To learn off Lionel Messi or Jake Livermore? Sometimes the opportunity is just impossible to refuse.
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Might not be Barcelona who get him, but it will be a major European team from a capital city. If he was going for football reasons, you would go to Barcelona I think?. If you go for money reasons, there are a few others...
Read a report saying since a recent European tournament where he scored loads of goals, he has been offered around Europe's top clubs by his agent. Albion are so out of this race...
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It's the biggest attraction in the world surely? Put yourself in Barry's shoes. Personally as an Albion fan I'd turn down the Liverpool's and Manchester's but Barcelona? To learn off Lionel Messi or Jake Livermore? Sometimes the opportunity is just impossible to refuse.
Yeah 100%, I said one of the biggest as I was considering Real Madrid, Juventus and then the likes of Man City (his generation will probably be all City fans now).
I think its very fair to say we wont ever see him in the WBA first team.
I would put my house on Morgan Rogers being the next one to be cherry picked.
That's the problem with the academy I guess, if a player of that age is performing exceptionally, then its likely on of the bigger clubs will take them before they get chance to be in our first team.
The best we can hope for is a couple of 'late bloomers' like Field etc,
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Morgan Rogers is an Albion fan though - I don't think Barry is. They might make a difference for Rogers.
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Not sure anyone can criticise Louie Barry if he did go to Barcelona, one look at their academy compared to ours and its a no brainer, even if he doesn't make it with them the coaching he will receive will be second to none and thats no disrespect to anyone at our club.
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Not sure anyone can criticise Louie Barry if he did go to Barcelona, one look at their academy compared to ours and its a no brainer, even if he doesn't make it with them the coaching he will receive will be second to none and thats no disrespect to anyone at our club.
I don't think anyone is criticising Louie, think its more a case of being annoyed at the system, one where we are starting to produce players who are doing well for the academy and national sides, and then they're being cherry picked by the big clubs.
For what it's worth if I was in Barry's situation, I would be jumping at the chance of signing for Barca.
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I don't think anyone is criticising Louie, think its more a case of being annoyed at the system, one where we are starting to produce players who are doing well for the academy and national sides, and then they're being cherry picked by the big clubs.
For what it's worth if I was in Barry's situation, I would be jumping at the chance of signing for Barca.
Don't get me wrong, I haven't seen any criticism on here, just making the point. I guess the vast majority of clubs are in this situation now and I can only see it getting worse.
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If Barcelona do really come in for Barry then I think its very likely he will go there. The only thing about Barcelona's academy is I believe they run it a little different to academies here as they have over 300 youth players in their academy spread over a few teams. I hope the fact he might be just another number they put in the mixer trying to reproduce Xavi, Iniesta, Messi etc. and that he would have to completely change his environment at such a young age might put him off? Probably not, but here's hoping
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Does anyone know whether Dara O'Shea will feature this season/is he good enough yet? He's 20 but played 27 games for Exeter in League 2 last season who finished 9th.
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Does anyone know whether Dara O'Shea will feature this season/is he good enough yet? He's 20 but played 27 games for Exeter in League 2 last season who finished 9th.
Well he had a solid season with Exeter in league 2, his contract had a year in our favour which we used. We should look to tie him down for abit longer and see if we can get him a loan in league 1 to continue his development.
The likes of leko also needs a season at league one possibly Wilson again.
I would say Kyle Edwards but the squad is quite thin and he looked handy when he was used so deserves a go imo
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Does anyone know whether Dara O'Shea will feature this season/is he good enough yet? He's 20 but played 27 games for Exeter in League 2 last season who finished 9th.
maybe, I don’t know if Fitzwater is still ahead though. Didn’t have a great season at Walsall but looking at the results they struggled much more without him playing after January. Also had a strong loan the season before with both seasons in league 1. Jack tends to be forgotten with all the attention Dara gets.
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Well he had a solid season with Exeter in league 2, his contract had a year in our favour which we used. We should look to tie him down for abit longer and see if we can get him a loan in league 1 to continue his development.
The likes of leko also needs a season at league one possibly Wilson again.
I would say Kyle Edwards but the squad is quite thin and he looked handy when he was used so deserves a go imo
He looked great in the few games he played and I'd put him ahead of Leko - hopefully he can be a regular from the bench. Agree with Leko and league 1.
Also I have to admit I'd forgotten about Fitzwater.
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Lots of talk of Louie Barry, but has anyone seen or heard if the other 'big name' Morgan Rogers signed a deal yet?
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I think it's a MASSIVE (hope that emphasises it enough) season for Field, Edwards, Burke, Leko, Fitzwater and Max Melbourne. If they don't properly break through this season I don't think they will be here the following season.
O'Shea is only just 20, that's very young for a centre back so I'd give him a years grace despite him doing really well at Exeter.
The likes of Tulloch, Wilson, Rogers are still in their teens so still early for them. Louie Barry is barely sixteen so he's a baby.
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I think it's a MASSIVE (hope that emphasises it enough) season for Field, Edwards, Burke, Leko, Fitzwater and Max Melbourne. If they don't properly break through this season I don't think they will be here the following season.
O'Shea is only just 20, that's very young for a centre back so I'd give him a years grace despite him doing really well at Exeter.
The likes of Tulloch, Wilson, Rogers are still in their teens so still early for them. Louie Barry is barely sixteen so he's a baby.
Melbourne won’t make it and I’d guess be replaced by George Harmon or Zak Delaney as the academy left back option next season
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Melbourne won’t make it and I’d guess be replaced by George Harmon or Zak Delaney as the academy left back option next season
I don't think Leko or Fitzwater will either.
I do think if there is one man that can get a tune out of Leko though it's Bilic.
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I don't think Leko or Fitzwater will either.
I do think if there is one man that can get a tune out of Leko though it's Bilic.
the problem with Leko is that he doesn't have a brain. unfortunately you can't teach that.
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the problem with Leko is that he doesn't have a brain. unfortunately you can't teach that.
I do tend to agree. He doesn't have the on the ball quality either. He's a trickster rather than a footballer.
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I don't think Melbourne will make it as a professional either. Fitzwater will probably be a steady player at a lower level, while Leko depends on his attitude - but after his display against Villa, I don't think he will.
Edwards looks like a player who will blow hot and cold. Probably Field is the best bet for a steady squad presence over the next few years.
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Matt Wilson Twitter Account
George Harmon, captain of the FA Youth Cup team that reached the semi-finals, has signed his first professional contract at #wba. Two-year deal for the 18-year-old left-back. Others from that team also due to sign pro contracts
Good news keeps coming
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Louie Barry has rejected our offer and left the club.
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Louie Barry has rejected our offer and left the club.
thats a shame, oh well we may never hear his name again or he may become the best player ever, out of our hands now.
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Very annoying but absolutely nothing the club could do.
Until the laws are changed this sort of thing will continue to happen.
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Louie Barry has rejected our offer and left the club.
Cant blame the kid, the weekly wage he is set to pick up at PSG for the length of his career will set him up financially even if he doesn't make a success out of his footballing career.
There was no way the club could compete with the PSG offer.
All the best kid.
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Where does it say that? And if true why are the club wasting their time with academy these kids don't give a pooh about who spotted them and who developed them.
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There should be a rule that means any player developed for so long at a club is subject to a % of future transfers up to a certain age. It's the only fair way I can think of doing it. Clubs get paid based on how the player develops. Something along those lines
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They should close down this academy. All we are doing is developing kids for other teams to come and sign them up.
The best kids move on to bigger and better teams, not always the right move ( Izzy Brown ). Others move on to teams where they are getting game time like the ones who went to Leeds.
If we see any type of potential we don't do anything to develop it. Last season Edwards should have been given more game time. Its probably only a matter of time until someone comes in for him because we didn't play him enough. Harper is another one who will be gone.
I can't remember the last time we gained anything from having this academy
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Every time we lose a kid out of the academy, the call is to close it down. We shouldn't do that.
What we need to do is convince the kids that there is a path to the first team at our place. If we did that, they might work harder, and be less likely to leave.
That said, the system is broken, so we're losing players to Liverpool, Chelsea, etc., for peanuts.
We don't need to scrap our academy; we need to campaign for an overhaul of the system.
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They should close down this academy. All we are doing is developaaing kids for other teams to come and sign them up.
The best kids move on to bigger and better teams, not always the right move ( Izzy Brown ). Others move on to teams where they are getting game time like the ones who went to Leeds.
If we see any type of potential we don't do anything to develop it. Last season Edwards should have been given more game time. Its probably only a matter of time until someone comes in for him because we didn't play him enough. Harper is another one who will be gone.
I can't remember the last time we gained anything from having this academy
any chance it can be taken up next time fans group talk to Jenkins and Co. The two million running costs could come in handy for transfers
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There should be a rule that means any player developed for so long at a club is subject to a % of future transfers up to a certain age. It's the only fair way I can think of doing it. Clubs get paid based on how the player develops. Something along those lines
Great idea that is , yes its PSG or whoever but what a waste of time for little return for us.
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They should close down this academy. All we are doing is developing kids for other teams to come and sign them up.
The best kids move on to bigger and better teams, not always the right move ( Izzy Brown ). Others move on to teams where they are getting game time like the ones who went to Leeds.
If we see any type of potential we don't do anything to develop it. Last season Edwards should have been given more game time. Its probably only a matter of time until someone comes in for him because we didn't play him enough. Harper is another one who will be gone.
I can't remember the last time we gained anything from having this academy
I have no idea what funding / staffing / maintaining the Academy costs the club, but its not looking as if its contributing to the future of the club at present, may look very different at the end of next season though
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Every time we lose a kid out of the academy, the call is to close it down. We shouldn't do that.
What we need to do is convince the kids that there is a path to the first team at our place. If we did that, they might work harder, and be less likely to leave.
That said, the system is broken, so we're losing players to Liverpool, Chelsea, etc., for peanuts.
We don't need to scrap our academy; we need to campaign for an overhaul of the system.
that's why we should close it down bec time after time any talent we have jumps ship at the first offer from who ever.
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I have no idea what funding / staffing / maintaining the Academy costs the club, but its not looking as if its contributing to the future of the club at present, may look very different at the end of next season though
2 million a year I believe, might be better spent on transfers
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It's funny it's always us though isn't it? You never hear of Wolves or Villa kids going elsewhere.
When Peace was here both Odem and Bera both publicly criticised him, the fault has always been with the incentive those who run us give to the young players.
Oh by the way, the academy coach who developed Barry has buggered off to the Villa.
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If the academy still costs 2m per year to run and in the past few years we sold Berahino for 12m and a few others we recouped say 500k in total we're still doing ok overall financiall. It's a hug pain in the @rse to lose these prospects for pittances but if one or two stick and they play regularly or we sell then it works........in theory.
You've got to blame the system really - I guess Barry's mom and dad have been got to by agents promising big things and ultimately they went after cash and the promise of huge stardom. Whether all the stars align in his favour remains to be seen so he could just end up another talented kid who didn't quite make it. All the furore about him suggests he has more going for him though? Good luck to him, it's football that's broken at the moment not the kid's fault..........
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Was it the academy or the training ground in general that we cancelled the planned investment for last summer?
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If the academy still costs 2m per year to run and in the past few years we sold Berahino for 12m and a few others we recouped say 500k in total we're still doing ok overall financiall. It's a hug pain in the butt to lose these prospects for pittances but if one or two stick and they play regularly or we sell then it works........in theory.
You've got to blame the system really - I guess Barry's mom and dad have been got to by agents promising big things and ultimately they went after cash and the promise of huge stardom. Whether all the stars align in his favour remains to be seen so he could just end up another talented kid who didn't quite make it. All the furore about him suggests he has more going for him though? Good luck to him, it's football that's broken at the moment not the kid's fault..........
I think we got £2.5m for Tyler Roberts and wasted it on Sturridge.
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The whole system needs an overhaul in the way of compensation.
However, we arent losing kids to rivals, ie they arent going to a Villa, or a Sheffield Wednesday, etc the ones we are losing are going to elite world renowned clubs - Chelsea (Brown), Liverpool (Dhanda and Sinclair), PSG or Barca (Barry).
Not all the clubs are known for great youth development but they are world class clubs and whatever level, youth or first team, if a Liverpool or PSG come calling it turns your head. With the exception of Brown none of these players were with the first team, the clubs are signing potential, signing them at 14, 15 or 16 and there arent many lads of that age playing first team football so i dont think we can be too criticial of the Albion here.
They offered Barry a three year contract, apparently on very good terms but as others have said financially going to PSG / Barca he will be setup very well for his future and the coaches and standards they have you can only learn from if you apply yourself, if he doesnt make it there he can step down to an Albion, etc.
Our best potential players are likely to get picked off, thats just football in general at all levels, so we have the next level down, the likes of Field, Harper, Edwards. What the club have to do for those players, and something they do have to improve, is show them if they are good enough there is a pathway for them to the first team, but if not ready they go out on loan, not playing under 23's football for seasons at a time.
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Cannot really blame him.
if its true PSG have offered him a 5 year deal why wouldnt you take it? like Izzy Brown, Chelsea offered him more money and brought his family a house allegedly.
he could sign for albion and then not get chances or not fulfil potential then slowly drift down the leagues and not make a living from football.
the reality is that money talks and if the psg offer is true then he signs that and has other incentives that affect his family then he is made for life.
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It's funny it's always us though isn't it? You never hear of Wolves or Villa kids going elsewhere.
When Peace was here both Odem and Bera both publicly criticised him, the fault has always been with the incentive those who run us give to the young players.
Oh by the way, the academy coach who developed Barry has buggered off to the Villa.
1. Villa and Wolves do lose players. Even Man City lost players to Dortmund
2. Barry was always leaving for a top European club. Not an English top 6 but one of the biggest world clubs. Just what could we offer to compete?
Money talks and if money clubs City lose out, well....
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It's funny it's always us though isn't it? You never hear of Wolves or Villa kids going elsewhere.
When Peace was here both Odem and Bera both publicly criticised him, the fault has always been with the incentive those who run us give to the young players.
Oh by the way, the academy coach who developed Barry has buggered off to the Villa.
weren't they criticising him for transfer dealings though, nothing to do with the academy?
Also under Peace didn't Berahino get a pay rise from something like £850 pw to £14,000 pw?
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Money has ruined the game, it won't ruin us though because we don't have any. We can't even pay off our own debts.
This club is in terminal decline.
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Real shame to lose Barry, I was hoping he could at least 'do a rooney' and break into a first team at 16/17, the get bought a couple of years later by one of the elite
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weren't they criticising him for transfer dealings though, nothing to do with the academy?
Also under Peace didn't Berahino get a pay rise from something like £850 pw to £14,000 pw?
Yes, but Peace said he wouldn't pay him anymore because he didn't trust him with it. What a pathetic purile excuse from the tight fisted bald one.
At the time Bera was one of Englands brightest prospects. Spurs were willing to buy him to play alongside Kane, but as we know, old Jeremiah doesn't do instalments, unles he's the one who is buying.
You can chart Bera's rapid decline from that moment.
£14,000 pw for Englands most up and coming striker FFS.
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I think we got £2.5m for Tyler Roberts and wasted it on Sturridge.
4 million for Roberts which went on sicknotes wages, couldn't even compete with Leeds who were in a league below us and didn't have prem money behind them. This club has and will be mickey mouse as Jose stated.
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4 million for Roberts which went on sicknotes wages, couldn't even compete with Leeds who were in a league below us and didn't have prem money behind them. This club has and will be mickey mouse as Jose stated.
And people will still keep making excuses for the owners. They are businessmen,why should they spend their money on a football club they will say.
Well why buy a feckin football club in the first place?
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Yes, but Peace said he wouldn't pay him anymore because he didn't trust him with it. What a pathetic purile excuse from the tight fisted bald one.
At the time Bera was one of Englands brightest prospects. Spurs were willing to buy him to play alongside Kane, but as we know, old Jeremiah doesn't do instalments, unles he's the one who is buying.
You can chart Bera's rapid decline from that moment.
£14,000 pw for Englands most up and coming striker FFS.
If memory serves me correctly didn't Spurs want to pay £5m up front and the rest in installments on pretty much the last day of the transfer window, meaning we would have struggled to have got anyone remotely decent in for that money?
Also £14,000pw was hardly peanuts.
Berahino's decline was all his own doing, he was the one who decided that he would sulk like a baby rather than knuckling down and making himself more appealing in future windows. Englands most up and coming striker or a one season flash in the pan...he's hardly gone on to set the world alight has he?
BUT my main point is that the issues with Odemwingie and Berahino had nothing to do with the U23's or the academy which is what this thread is about.
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So we offered Lourie Barry a 3 year deal and PSG offered him a 5 year deal. :o For god sake why didn't we at least offer 5 years as well with lots of clauses and incentives to ratchet up his wages for appearances and goals? It's a shocking state of affairs when we can't even put together a quality package for 16 year old "wonderkid" when we have income of £50m and barely 20 first team players on the books. This just smacks as another example of the club being mismanaged.
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They should close down this academy. All we are doing is developing kids for other teams to come and sign them up.
The best kids move on to bigger and better teams, not always the right move ( Izzy Brown ). Others move on to teams where they are getting game time like the ones who went to Leeds.
If we see any type of potential we don't do anything to develop it. Last season Edwards should have been given more game time. Its probably only a matter of time until someone comes in for him because we didn't play him enough. Harper is another one who will be gone.
I can't remember the last time we gained anything from having this academy
I still feel that he is better off now than if he'd have stayed here. He's played over 80 games since leaving despite having a lengthy spell out injured. Compare that to the game time Field has had here for example (very little) plus the fact he's earned a lot more money in the meantime. Had he stayed here he'd have most likely been sat on the sidelines watching has beens like Livermore and Brunt.
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So we offered Lourie Barry a 3 year deal and PSG offered him a 5 year deal. :o For god sake why didn't we at least offer 5 years as well with lots of clauses and incentives to ratchet up his wages for appearances and goals? It's a shocking state of affairs when we can't even put together a quality package for 16 year old "wonderkid" when we have income of £50m and barely 20 first team players on the books. This just smacks as another example of the club being mismanaged.
For me a 5 year contract to a kid who cant even buy a lottery ticket isn't the way to go, regardless of how good he might become. I don't know what the offers elsewhere will be financially but if were to offer him say 5k per week for 5 years (a guess at what the PSG offer might look like) then not only is that a large financial commitment to a player of that age, but what stops Morgan Rogers, Jamie Soule etc. asking for similar or walk. At some point you have to draw the line at what you are prepared to pay such a young player. If reports are right, a 3 year contract including a year on a pro contract is a very good offer and one I doubt we have ever offered a youth player before
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I still feel that he is better off now than if he'd have stayed here. He's played over 80 games since leaving despite having a lengthy spell out injured. Compare that to the game time Field has had here for example (very little) plus the fact he's earned a lot more money in the meantime. Had he stayed here he'd have most likely been sat on the sidelines watching has beens like Livermore and Brunt.
we were in the Premier league when Brown left since then he has only made 15 appearances in the Premier league out of his 73 league appearances (1 for us and Chelsea and 13 for Brighton), he's mostly played in the Championship or The Dutch top flight which is more akin to the Championship in standard.
It seems that both us and Chelsea didn't think he was quite ready for the EPL at the times we had him.
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Every time we lose a kid out of the academy, the call is to close it down. We shouldn't do that.
What we need to do is convince the kids that there is a path to the first team at our place. If we did that, they might work harder, and be less likely to leave.
That said, the system is broken, so we're losing players to Liverpool, Chelsea, etc., for peanuts.
We don't need to scrap our academy; we need to campaign for an overhaul of the system.
Agree. Southampton and Crystal Palace have shown that how to run a academy.
They sold Targett and Wan-Bissaka for £15m & £50m respectively.
Just give more chances to the youngsters in first team, the club may receive good offer for them after that.
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I am no lover of Peace, but when Chelsea snatched Izzy Brown off us Peace himself questioned the point of having an academy.
I am not for closing it, i want it to benefit not just the club but the national side as well. OK maybe Barry was always going to be hard to hold onto, but it will be interesting to see where he goes, and i am still not sure our hierarchy do everything they can to hold onto our best prospects.
Also the coach responsible for bringing him on as left the club, was Barry leaving the cause of that or was it the other way round?
I hope Barry goes abroad and doesn't follow the coach to Villa Park.
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It's the level of compensation that grates most. Should be more like 2 million. The system should come close to properly compensating the club that has produced the player and encourage the buying club to at least think twice about how many 16 year olds they are going to hoover up from the minnow clubs around the world.
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Did a bit of googling and found this article from 1999... some very familiar names in the piece but this kind of thing will always go on whilst the big hitters have such a massive say in things: https://www.theguardian.com/football/1999/jan/08/newsstory.sport4
(the irony of Big Sam moaning made me chuckle.)
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Matt Wilson retwitted this from a guy called Jason Kumar, it sounds like a good idea, but will it ever come to fruition? I like the idea personally.
Won’t happen of course but a good way to encourage clubs at all levels to develop young players and academies would be for FIFA to say that for every year the kid is at your club you get 2% of all future transfer fees.
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Was it the academy or the training ground in general that we cancelled the planned investment for last summer?
It was the training ground and sports science department. The planned investment of £250,000 was put on hold due to relegation. Performance Director Mark Gillett left prior to the announcement and headed to Forest. I've no idea whether the two instances are linked. By the time we redevelop the costs will only have increased and I'd imagine that would be dependent on promotion.
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Whatever happens , I'm a strong supporter of keeping the academy. If as estimated it takes £2million a year to run, that's worth far more than the same sum in the transfer market. You could blow that on an Anichebe or an Allan Nyom.
It's ironic that the team has produced some decent quality in recent years, England internationals etc. If it maintains a good reputation it will attract kids who might have otehrwise been snapped up by Villa or Wolves. But we have to try and increase their market value whilst they are with us, like Southampton have done.
One thing I don't understand is how kids of 15 or 16 are ready to uproot from their homes and even move abroad. When I was 15, don't think my parents would have been too impressed with me abandoning getting any school qualifications.
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Southampton are a good example but even they have lost their potential 'stars' at 14, 15, 16.
What they do well is when the rest of their players get to 18/19, if they are good enough they are given a proper chance, thats what Albion dont do very well. Wan Bissaka is now 21, but up until a couple of years ago Palace were playing him as a winger and had real doubts if he was going to make it there, he moved to full back and two and half years later is moving for £50m quid.
The big boys buying players at 14, 15, 16 are just buying potential, say Louis Barry goes to PSG, there will be another 4 or 5 like him in that squad, 1 of them will probably make it as a top top player but for the sake of a few million investment now with compensation, wages, etc for 4 or 5 potential stars, the 1 player who does make it as a top player saves them millions and millions down the line, all they are doing is having a safety net, the big clubs sign the top potential youngsters working roughly on the ratio above.
There is a big difference in physicality and mentality between 16 and 18, i think the ratio of lads who get taken on full time scholarships to those making a career out of professional football is still in the single percentage, yet everyone of those lads who are taken on have something or some potential at that age, the two years between 16 and 18 is massive though.
You now and again get a lad who just seems to be almost a man in a boys body and is ready to play first team at 16/17, from the academy games i have seen Morgan Rogers looks the one who could do that.
As said previous what we have to do is when these lads sign professional after their scholarships, is have a clear plan, like Southampton do, if your good enough you get the chance, if your not you go out on loan, instead at Albion we have players like Leko and Field who broke through three seasons ago and are not really much further along in their personal careers as they were then, they havent played regular for us, not been out on loan (Leko had a few months somewhere but thats it) thats what has to change, if you dont think they are good enough, then sell them for our sakes and theirs.
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That's the mystery with Field really. He's had his contract extended fairly generously time-wise twice, does not look out of his depth when he plays yet we don't seem prepared to back him and give him the run of games to develop.
We also have to brace ourselves for the Morgan Rogers contract situation next. Matt Wilson's words were 'will be offered his first pro contract when he turns 17 next month'.
He's an albion fan but we shall see how this goes.
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PSG have apparently offered 20k/week over 5 years. That’s insanity ??? If I was in his position I’d do the same, doubt we’re even offering 1k and the kids family is set up for life with that PSG contract
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Can't really blame Barry if he is being offered a guaranteed 3-5 million. Madness not to take it when you could easily stall.
Problem is that we just arent benefitting from the academy in the way that Palace, Norwich and Saints are. We have lost so much talent for peanuts in recent years, while others make £50 milli9n for 1 player.
We have lost Dhanda, Sinclair, Brown and Barry (plus the other kid to Man City) for around 3 million in total. Even losing Tyler Roberts prove we gave a serious issue retaining youth prospects.
Need to provide an environment where players want to stay veey quickly.
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The FA need to tighten up the rules on compansation for the club along the lines of a percentage of a future transfer.
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So... If it's £12m for Berahino and £4m for Roberts that's £16m the Academy has bought in in 2 years. There's the reason to keep running it.
I would rather see players coming through to the first team myself. But from every managers' perspective it will be why will I risk my job (and it's a volitile position) on that kid who may/may not work out and will be inconsistent; when I can play that experienced player who will be more consistent and not get me the sack.
What I doin't think is right is that we have invested 10 years in this kid, longer in Harper, and they are free to walk away and some other club will benefit from them and we will get very little recognition. Fair enough for players like Roofe, we chose not to offer them a contract, but if we offer them a contract we should be entitled to some of the ongoing transfer revenue.
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There should be a rule that means any player developed for so long at a club is subject to a % of future transfers up to a certain age. It's the only fair way I can think of doing it. Clubs get paid based on how the player develops. Something along those lines
Personally I don’t think players should be able to move before the age of 18 anyway
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I do wonder how many of our promising youngsters have been swayed also by the recent history of finding it really difficult to get first team chances under the last few managers.
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I do wonder how many of our promising youngsters have been swayed also by the recent history of finding it really difficult to get first team chances under the last few managers.
No idea, but I still expect the majority of calls to be down to money. In the case of Barry in particular, I can’t imagine for the life of me that the route to the first team is more attainable to him at PSG or Barcelona.
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I cannot believe the club is getting criticised.
Barry cannot sign a contract until the year he turns 17. Albion cannot pin him down and make him sign.
In all likelihood, he was going to stay until a few months ago when Barry was superb for England jn a European tournament and everyone wanted him. When Barcelona or PSG knock on the door what would you do.
We are talking astronomical contracts and signing on fees here. Albion simply cannot compete. Nor can our top six in this country - they all wanted him.
If your son could move to one of the top clubs in the world, be set financially for life, sort the family financially for life, what would you say to him?
The criticism of the club and Barry is just ridiculous because we would all do the same.
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Morgan Rogers is going to Man City, just while we are on the topic of academy. Almost done deal.
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Morgan Rogers is going to Man City, just while we are on the topic of academy. Almost done deal.
Where's that from mate ?
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Jenkins should be penning a carefully worded letter to the FA and UEFA right now about the levels of compensation being paid here.
Wouldn't be surprised if we've lost Rogers and Soule as well as Barry by the time the season kicks off.
Soule being a bit older is under contract until 2020 so I assume we can get it a bit more for him and negotiate a sell on clause.
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We are getting good money for Rogers, don’t know about the others though
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We are getting good money for Rogers, don’t know about the others though
What do you class as good money and if he hasn't yet signed his first pro contract why would we get good money for him ?
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So... If it's £12m for Berahino and £4m for Roberts that's £16m the Academy has bought in in 2 years. There's the reason to keep running it.
I would rather see players coming through to the first team myself. But from every managers' perspective it will be why will I risk my job (and it's a volitile position) on that kid who may/may not work out and will be inconsistent; when I can play that experienced player who will be more consistent and not get me the sack.
What I doin't think is right is that we have invested 10 years in this kid, longer in Harper, and they are free to walk away and some other club will benefit from them and we will get very little recognition. Fair enough for players like Roofe, we chose not to offer them a contract, but if we offer them a contract we should be entitled to some of the ongoing transfer revenue.
Roberts fee went on sicknotes wages another great bit of business done by the powers rhat be.
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Close the f ing thing down waste of time and money
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Morgan Rogers is going to Man City, just while we are on the topic of academy. Almost done deal.
Not saying it means much in this day and age, but Rogers is a WBA fan. He’d have more reason to stay than say another player from the Academy. I’m sure he’s had reported interest before in him. He turns 17 soon so I’m sure we will find out. Genuinely believe Rogers, Soule and Tulloch can have an impact this season. (If management team puts trust in them). We need to start showing a genuine pathway to our elite talent.
As an aside, Chelsea also lost two Academy players to Bayern Munich. So it’s not just WBA who can have players poached. Chelsea even lost Rhian Brewster when he was 14 I believe.
The fact we have Soule and Tulloch on professional contracts helps. But we need to be brave and play them in league games.
Yes we drip fed Edwards, Leko and Field in the Cup games but the acid test for them will be this season. Huge for all three.
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Morgan Rogers is going to Man City, just while we are on the topic of academy. Almost done deal.
Depressing to hear if that happens. Thought as wba fan he would stay but again money talks. System is a farce.
However, if it is a big fee there is the justification for the academy. Berahino's fee paid for seven years worth of the academy alone. Rodgers may well do the same.
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I don't know how the system works and what you can enforce as a contract on an academy player but there should be a better way of compensating the club who have invested in their development. In Wales, the NHS pays tuition fees for nurses who train at a Welsh university as long as they agree to practice in the country for at least three years after graduation. Accountancy firms used to pay training costs and exam fees for a similar deal. Perhaps academy players should be tied to the club that invests in them for so many seasons after they turn professional or a club wishing to poach them should have to pay a negotiated release fee?
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I don't know how the system works and what you can enforce as a contract on an academy player but there should be a better way of compensating the club who have invested in their development. In Wales, the NHS pays tuition fees for nurses who train at a Welsh university as long as they agree to practice in the country for at least three years after graduation. Accountancy firms used to pay training costs and exam fees for a similar deal. Perhaps academy players should be tied to the club that invests in them for so many seasons after they turn professional or a club wishing to poach them should have to pay a negotiated release fee?
In my opinion the system needs overhauling when it comes to compensation. The flat £235k or whatever it is isn't right. I personally think a fee for a youngster should be determined by a few factors with one of them being the contract they get at their new club. I saw a rumour yesterday that the young lad Barry has been offered £20k a week for five years by a club so IF that is true and he joined them then the compensation should reflect how highly his potential is clearly rated by that club given he's been nurtured from such a young age.
You can certainly see why some clubs have decided to downgrade their Academy.
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I think we'd get more than £235k if Rogers went to Man City as it's a sale to a British club. I'm not sure what the figure is but it certainly wouldn't class as good money for someone of his potential.
I don't think anything is going to change as far as some sort of enforcing academy players to stay and play a year or so for the club that's produced them.
Throughout sport now there's a general acceptance that the best talent needs to be hot-housed i.e. the best players need to train, develop and play with the best day in day out in the best facilities with the best coaching and sports science behind them. This is why it would be a brave move if someone like Barry or Rogers actually signed to stay with us for a couple of years.
The thing that can change is that the compensation levels need to generously reflect the investment in time and money that the academy club has made.
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The problem is complex.
Most academies recruit from the age of 8 but the youngsters can't sign a contract until they are 16 and even here there are restrictions as to the length of contract. Other professions have training contract provisions but typically these are only signed by people who are 18 plus and these contracts have been successfully challenged where the terms have been deemed as being onerous e.g. the cost of release being greater than the cost of the training provided.
In terms of cost the academy is reported at costing £2m a year, which in the wacky world of football is relatively small beer. The cost per year of each scholar is roughly £35k, the flat rate compensation of about £220k is probably about right in that it covers off the cost of the individual youngster. However what it doesn't cover is the much bigger cost of all the academy players who drop out or are kicked out before they get a professional contract.
As ever the football authorities have to be mindful that the whole transfer fee system is built on sand. If a player was ever to challenge it in court then there is every chance that they would win and the whole thing would come crashing down. Hence they are reluctant to intervene and saddle a player with a contract clause at the age of 16 which might trigger such a challenge. Particularly as there is no existing contract between club and player.
None of this particularly helpful for us as a club.
My view is that the FA should take Youth Development away from the clubs. They should run and pay for the system even if the academies are hosted by the clubs. At that point players just go to their local academies there are no financial inducements there is no stockpiling of players as there is no advantage to be gained from moving from one academy to another. Youth football at club level starts at 16 and is governed by contract.
They could fund this either through the compensation that is currently levied when a player signs at 16 of through a levy on transfer fees. If they want to distribute talent evenly they could introduce a draft system like the NFL.
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The answer surely is to stop them leaving for another academy until they have signed their first pro contract(minimum 2years)
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Some excellent posts here.
In a way, we are victims of our own success. We are producing top quality players who other clubs now covet.
Not easy to swallow when we lose the top top players like Barry and Rogers), but it shows the quality of the academy.
We should celebrate that we are producing the talent but know we will lose the top ones. Fulham are about to lose a top 16 year old to Liverpool by the way so it affects all of us, even Man City, who lose out to German clubs.
We could this year have Harper, Field, Edwards and Soule in our first team squad and all could play. To have potentially 20% of our first team generated by the academy is a huge money saving, even despite losing our two jewels.
As another positive, if lads can see that they could go to Man City or Barcelona from little old WBA, isn't that a positive to join us in the first place. Personally feel that this fact is a major advert and reason to join our academy.
For every diamond we lose cheaply: Matt Smith, Dhanda, Brown, Barry, Rogers
We make or save money on: Berahino, Roberts, Edwards, Field, Harper, Tulloch, Roofe, Sawyers.
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The answer surely is to stop them leaving for another academy until they have signed their first pro contract(minimum 2years)
I think that would be considered a restraint of trade and illegal.
But something has to be done, otherwise academies won’t be financial viable and all but the richest clubs academies will disappear to the detriment of young footballers and football in general.
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Some excellent posts here.
In a way, we are victims of our own success. We are producing top quality players who other clubs now covet.
Not easy to swallow when we lose the top top players like Barry and Rogers), but it shows the quality of the academy.
We should celebrate that we are producing the talent but know we will lose the top ones. Fulham are about to lose a top 16 year old to Liverpool by the way so it affects all of us, even Man City, who lose out to German clubs.
We could this year have Harper, Field, Edwards and Soule in our first team squad and all could play. To have potentially 20% of our first team generated by the academy is a huge money saving, even despite losing our two jewels.
As another positive, if lads can see that they could go to Man City or Barcelona from little old WBA, isn't that a positive to join us in the first place. Personally feel that this fact is a major advert and reason to join our academy.
For every diamond we lose cheaply: Matt Smith, Dhanda, Brown, Barry, Rogers
We make or save money on: Berahino, Roberts, Edwards, Field, Harper, Tulloch, Roofe, Sawyers.
For me this is an important point - attracting top local talent is a big plus for the club and will bring other players on. Too many often quite talented players get 'swallowed up' by the big teams at an early age and subsequently disappear from the game. More clubs need academies which are better without too many players in them.
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Quick question is there any link to a report that confirms we are about to lose Rogers to Man City ?
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Quick question is there any link to a report that confirms we are about to lose Rogers to Man City ?
No , I asked the poster and looked myself .
Nothing.
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I can understand kids having heads turned given we aren't a top flight club and the likes of Man City, Barca and PSG knocking at the door.
What I can't stomach is having these kids from 6 / 7 years old , investing 10 years in them and then they do a runner . That simply isn't right whichever way you look at it and the peanuts we get in return . I'd be very tempted to scrap the academy for what it costs per year in all honesty unless the rules change .
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I can understand kids having heads turned given we aren't a top flight club and the likes of Man City, Barca and PSG knocking at the door.
What I can't stomach is having these kids from 6 / 7 years old , investing 10 years in them and then they do a runner . That simply isn't right whichever way you look at it and the peanuts we get in return . I'd be very tempted to scrap the academy for what it costs per year in all honesty unless the rules change .
I have had my son go through academy systems and believe me it is even more cut throat than your worst thoughts. There is no hesitation to get rid of a young player no matter how long they have been with you for - why should the kids owe anything to the club? They are one tackle away from their career being over.
If the chance comes to sort your family for life it would be impossible to turn down.
To describe it as then doing a runner is hard on the kids.
One of my lad's teammates did his ACL while under a two year scholarship at the same academy as my son. The club involved would not pay his wages while he went through the year of operation and rehab. They have started paying him again now he is fit - but what is the lad supposed to live on while in rehab?
There is no loyalty from the clubs - the lads are purely £ signs. I am disappointed Barry has gone but I don't blame him.
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Absolutely correct, the coaches and managers change on a regular basis, your kid stays or goes on a personal opinion: one son at an academy considered too small at 13 after 6 years at club at 21 was 6ft and 80kgs, other son was expected to go training 3 times a week with a Manchester club prohibited from playing with his own club - eventually he decided not to go anymore as the joy of playing was being eroded by being taught off ball tactics (basically how to cheat) was told he was too nice ;D
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The system is rubbish in terms of compensation but it wont change unless the power clubs in this country tried to push for it happen.
They wont do that as it stands because the system benefits them, they get to hoover up the best players from clubs across the country for very small fees (in football terms) they pick the best and cast off the rest.
Its not unlike first team football, the best players end up getting signed by the best clubs for transfer fees, with academy football its the same but just from a younger age and the transfer fee is classed as compensation and its minimal.
The only way i can see things changing is if large groups of 14,15 and 16 year olds start to leave the big clubs in this country in the same way Louis Barry seems to be, ie - going abroad and the big clubs only get £235k compensation.
I am sure it happens from time to time now but if it started happening a lot, then i think the big clubs would start to question the system because teams from abroad would be doing to them what they are doing to clubs over here, picking off the best players and potential multi millionaire assets to their clubs for tiny fees.
Until that happens (and i am not sure it even will) then i think the system is here to stay, there may be some complaints and grumbles, the fees may be upped from £235k to say £500k, but unless the big boys in this country get involved then nothing major will change.
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An automatic 50% sell on clause could work. If a young player leave an academy for a big club, the sell on clause would benefit all.
Player gets the contract
New club get the best price (they are forced to as they know they have to pay 50% out)
Academy club get the 50% of the price covering costs from the academy
everyones a winner!
I personally feel if a young lad comes through the Albion academy why wouldnt you want to put on a first team shirt for the club? If it were me I would look at getting a 5 year deal at the age of 16. 3 years for you and 2 years for the club so as at the age of 19 if a big club swoops you wouldnt leave for free as you are under contract. The sell on clause would be the answer for me though.
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I have had my son go through academy systems and believe me it is even more cut throat than your worst thoughts. There is no hesitation to get rid of a young player no matter how long they have been with you for - why should the kids owe anything to the club? They are one tackle away from their career being over.
If the chance comes to sort your family for life it would be impossible to turn down.
To describe it as then doing a runner is hard on the kids.
One of my lad's teammates did his ACL while under a two year scholarship at the same academy as my son. The club involved would not pay his wages while he went through the year of operation and rehab. They have started paying him again now he is fit - but what is the lad supposed to live on while in rehab?
There is no loyalty from the clubs - the lads are purely £ signs. I am disappointed Barry has gone but I don't blame him.
Doing a runner maybe wasn't the best way of making my point , my real issue is growing these kids for other clubs if you like as I posted elsewhere .
These kids have benefited from Albion training then we get our pockets picked as the works starts to blossom , again I posted understanding the offers/money but for clubs like Albion its fast becoming a pointless task .
Whats that 5 now ?
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An automatic 50% sell on clause could work. If a young player leave an academy for a big club, the sell on clause would benefit all.
Player gets the contract
New club get the best price (they are forced to as they know they have to pay 50% out)
Academy club get the 50% of the price covering costs from the academy
everyones a winner!
I personally feel if a young lad comes through the Albion academy why wouldnt you want to put on a first team shirt for the club? If it were me I would look at getting a 5 year deal at the age of 16. 3 years for you and 2 years for the club so as at the age of 19 if a big club swoops you wouldnt leave for free as you are under contract. The sell on clause would be the answer for me though.
bet their parents were delighted when Albion came calling to train them when they were 6 7.
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bet their parents were delighted when Albion came calling to train them when they were 6 7.
Mate Im sorry but I dont get your point?
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Mate Im sorry but I dont get your point?
ops wrong post to reply to sorry for the confusion.
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I would like us to get O'Shea on a long term deal then get him out on loan in league one.
Jon leko needs a season playing games so he should also be out in league 1 or 2.
I think Oliver Burke and Edwards will be in and around the first team. We could probably get one of the 2 out on loan for half a season too depending on additions.
If Sam field isn't starting weekly he needs a season long loan so he doesn't regress.
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I would like us to get O'Shea on a long term deal then get him out on loan in league one.
Jon leko needs a season playing games so he should also be out in league 1 or 2.
I think Oliver Burke and Edwards will be in and around the first team. We could probably get one of the 2 out on loan for half a season too depending on additions.
If Sam field isn't starting weekly he needs a season long loan so he doesn't regress.
I'd like to see O'Shea used as third or forth choice centre back here next season, (the Adarabioyo role last season if you like).
I'm hoping Slaven does trust our youngsters more next season. I think last season the club very much saw it as one crack at going straight back up so put more of an emphasis on going with experience whereas now they are talking in terms of changing our philosophy and getting promotion within two years (obviously go up this season if we can). This is an ideal time to integrate the youngsters, in the knowledge that we will be financially living more within our means and an extra season in the Championship will make no real difference to us in that regard.
I'd like to see more of Harper and Field in the middle of the park and Edwards and Burke used more amongst the front three. These players need to be given priority over the likes of Livermore and Robson-Kanu in particular.
I believe the club need to make a decision on the likes of Leko, Wilson, Fitzwater. Do they loan them out again or do they look to release them? I don't see any of them making the grade. Just my opinion, of course.
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I am not convinced by the process of sending out youngsters to league 1 or 2 clubs. Plainly it provides valuable experience but I am not sure that extended exposure to the generally lower standards of the lower leagues does enough to push the players to the level they need to get to for the Championship let alone the Premier League.
The only way to achieve this is get them into the squad and get them on the pitch when opportunities arise. From that point of view I agree with Atomic in that we must be getting close to decision time on Leko and Fitzwater either in the squad or out the door I can't see the point of another loan. Wilson being slightly younger might benefit from another loan but I would prefer him to be pushed into the squad.
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I am not convinced by the process of sending out youngsters to league 1 or 2 clubs. Plainly it provides valuable experience but I am not sure that extended exposure to the generally lower standards of the lower leagues does enough to push the players to the level they need to get to for the Championship let alone the Premier League.
The only way to achieve this is get them into the squad and get them on the pitch when opportunities arise. From that point of view I agree with Atomic in that we must be getting close to decision time on Leko and Fitzwater either in the squad or out the door I can't see the point of another loan. Wilson being slightly younger might benefit from another loan but I would prefer him to be pushed into the squad.
Agree.
Wilson could be our 2nd choice right back and the coaching staff can monitoring his progress closely.
It would be good news for both sides if he can step up, if not then we can loan him back to lower league in 2nd half season.
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Morgan Rogers scored yesterday against Telford. Apparently it was a stunner.
Be good if he can be involved this year at some point. Seems some talent.
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Issue we've got with the likes of Fitzwater and Wilson is they haven't had an extended period of games where they have stood out on loan. However, Edwards barely got a kick at Exeter then scored a screamer for them in the Play Offs and looked decent in his limited chances for Albion.
If they aren't obviously head and shoulders above when on loan, like Berahino was, then it's a difficult call to make. Wilson could be capable back-up next season, or he could be completely out of his depth. That's where a decent manager either brings through a young talent, or makes the call to get experienced cover. From the little I've seen, I'd be worried if Fitzwater or Wilson were in our back 4 for any extended period.
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Problem we have is the depth of our squad so youngsters have to be kept around just in case of injuries etc.
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The three players who could go to the very top are/were Barry, Rogers and one a year younger called Rico Richards. Hopefully Rogers stays as genuinely think he could be a decent bench option even this season.
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The three players who could go to the very top are/were Barry, Rogers and one a year younger called Rico Richards. Hopefully Rogers stays as genuinely think he could be a decent bench option even this season.
I think Bilic might have the balls to play a few youngsters this season
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I think Bilic might have the balls to play a few youngsters this season
Hope so. We’ve got players who can go onto become decent standard, ie harper, field, O’Shea, tulloch, Edwards etc. These are all obviously older so should be closer to the team. O’Shea in particular has had rave reviews from Exeter fans. Kane Wilson is a strange one, he was massively rated a couple of years ago, suppose he’s still only 19 but hasn’t really kicked on.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7225029/Manchester-City-swoop-highly-rated-West-Brom-England-17-starlet-Morgan-Rogers.html
We’re being torn apart
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7225029/Manchester-City-swoop-highly-rated-West-Brom-England-17-starlet-Morgan-Rogers.html
We’re being torn apart
wonder what we are likely to receive by way of compensation/fee.
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FFS this is getting ridiculous.
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It's disgusting that this can happen. Really have to start questioning whether it's actually worth having an academy if our best kids keep getting pinched.
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It’s a food chain and begs the question of why we aren’t doing similar to smaller clubs than us?
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I think a better route for us would be Brentford's B team where its basically just a bunch of very cheap signings, kind of Mowbray's underbelly idea on a bigger scale. We had some dreadful players from that but the likes of Dorrans and Mulumbu made it more than worth it. Seems far more profitable and if we do get anyone decent from it they're under contract.
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https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-7225029/Manchester-City-swoop-highly-rated-West-Brom-England-17-starlet-Morgan-Rogers.html
We’re being torn apart
If this goes through it rips the absolute urine out of the academy and compensation system.
Vexed.
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Didn't Peace try and stop this thing happening during a Premiership meeting and was voted down by the top six clubs.
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This truly is a proper blow. Was looking forward to seem him come into the squad this year. I am at a loss to see how this is fair. Fulham lost one to Liverpool. It seems clubs are stockpiling as someone said. There’s a decent chance Rogers will go nowhere with his career but when they can pay whatever the player is made. I’m kinda getting done with football
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As i said before, why is it always us they come for. You can add England pinching Hodgson and Ashworth as well.
Nobody comes for Nuno or Neves at the Wolves. If they had been ours they would be at United or somewhere now.
This club is going down the drain and i think it is deliberate neglect.
We are just a nursery club. The owner is an assett stripper.
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No money to buy players, and having our youngsters stolen after years of coaching. What is the point of being a football club?
So drunk off with the game now, waste of time and effort bothering.
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Jamie Soule would be the next one if he can't break into 1st team this season.
The club have to convince the youngsters that their future is here, there would be chances to play if they stay.
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As somebody said above, we should be doing the same to smaller clubs than us.
There will be championship, league one and league two clubs with a standout player or two in their academy who maybe arent quite ready for Liverpool or Man City (yet) we should be going in and getting them.
Its depressing but thats football, there is a food chain, there is no point the club crying and feeling sorry about players who have gone or are going, they arent ours anymore so move on and do the same to others as whats happened to us.
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I still think £2 million a year, if that figure is correct, represents good value for the Academy. That money nowadays would only get you a run-of-the mill defender in the transfer market. But we must keep blooding youngsters in the first team. Otherwise we are completly dependant on what we can afford in the transfer market.
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We have to ask why this keeps happening to us with such frequency, and not to clubs like Southampton, Palace and Norwich.
I think there are 2 things the club needs to do.
One is provide an environment which the players trust is the best possible place for them to be. So far our failure to develop a player from an 8 year old into a first teamer who then goes on to bigger and better things is a black mark (Field, Leko, Edwards all examples of this).
The second, and i've said this before, is for a long term strategic rethink at the academy. We are a striker specialist academy. Brown, Sinclair, Roberts, Barry and Rogers have all been nicked, with Dhanda being an attacking midfielder. Even those we kept, Berahino, Wood, Nabi, Sawyers, Roofe and promising kids Soule and Tulloch - these players blossom earlier than any other position, meaning they can show potential at 16 and start to look like they are worth a punt. Problem then is that we can't tie them down until they are 17 so they are easy pickings.
The clubs making big money out of their academies develop players who take longer to shine. Wing backs, wide men, defenders and midfielders.
I think we need to work harder to identify players in these positions and ease off having so many strikers. We just don't get any value from the strikers, as seen by this weekends double hammer blow.
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There is something deeply wrong with our academy, the amount of players we are losing is abysmal. Rogers is a huge wba fan and so are his family, he is on the cusp of the first team. Why does he want to leave? No point producing players for someone else.
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There is something deeply wrong with our academy, the amount of players we are losing is abysmal. Rogers is a huge wba fan and so are his family, he is on the cusp of the first team. Why does he want to leave? No point producing players for someone else.
Well some of it is just the clubs coming in for them but the clubs plans for players above 18 is extremely poor really. It seems an endemic thing as well, Jimmy Shan was a full on youth coach and still gave very little in the way of opportunity. Including playing Murphy who did nothing and barely tried consistently ahead of Edwards.
I imagine if you were a young player coming through you'd look at the likes of Field, Edwards and Leko with a lot of concern. Not going on loan, not getting game time, there just doesn't seem a development plan in place for them. We keep youth players in the squad as back ups who have no realistic chance of playing. Then every summer sign a bunch of players in front of them, because they can't be trusted because they haven't played. Then you've got people like Tyler Roberts who never got a chance here, probably friends with some of these players telling them how much better it is when they leave.
Aside from the absolute elite tier of player all young players are going to be relatively inconsistent and need time to grow, but the rewards can be huge if given. This club never gives that opportunity. The fans also are not used to it and extremely impatient with players, look how many were willing to write Harper off already.
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A lot of people saying there's something wrong with our academy but we aren't alone in this happening sadly https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48913138 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48913138)
For that youngster, Liverpool does seem a better shout than Man City/Chelsea mind.
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One of the problems with our academy is that in the past the structure/coaches had been there for a long time, and were well trusted, so could give genuine advice on whether a player was ready for the step-up. By going cheap on the first team management, the club has lost Darren Moore and Jimmy Shan from the setup completely, leaving it with less experienced coaches, and removing some of the clear pathways that previously existed.
I wouldnt be surprised if we were very tight when it comes to wages of the young players, relying heavily on appearance/performance bonuses rather than wages, whilst also being very negative towards players' agents. All this is bound to push the players' representatives to recommend them move elsewhere, which will generate the agent more cash in the short term, with little regard to the player's ongoing development.
Why should a player be loyal if the club doesn't show they respect their talent?
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It’s a food chain and begs the question of why we aren’t doing similar to smaller clubs than us?
We are. But because it's us and a smaller club, it isn't really newsworthy. We've done it as far back as George Thorne.
Also the sums involved might be smaller, but they mean more to the clubs involved because they aren't earning premier league money.
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One of the problems with our academy is that in the past the structure/coaches had been there for a long time, and were well trusted, so could give genuine advice on whether a player was ready for the step-up. By going cheap on the first team management, the club has lost Darren Moore and Jimmy Shan from the setup completely, leaving it with less experienced coaches, and removing some of the clear pathways that previously existed.
I wouldnt be surprised if we were very tight when it comes to wages of the young players, relying heavily on appearance/performance bonuses rather than wages, whilst also being very negative towards players' agents. All this is bound to push the players' representatives to recommend them move elsewhere, which will generate the agent more cash in the short term, with little regard to the player's ongoing development.
Why should a player be loyal if the club doesn't show they respect their talent?
What clear pathways to the first team have there been for youth players? The last one to break through on a consistent basis was Berahino. Before that, probably the Chambers twins and Lloyd Dyer.
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With the £8 Million (hopefully with a sell on clause of some sort) being touted for Rogers, just like that the Academy's existence is re-validated.
Yes it's frustrating to lose players to a foreign club for a nominal fee (something you would hope FIFA address at some point), but selling domestically whenever we uncover a gem is financially worth it for us.
I would reject earlier calls for the academy to be canned on this basis alone, but then there is always the chance these players can also burst onto the scene for our own team too.
Not to mention the potential impact of Brexit (no political debates please) on player transfers in and out of this country - British based players will be at a further premium (already are to an extent) and we must think long term with how we treat the academy with this in mind as well.
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We are just part of the food chain unfortunately.
We are entering the next few years were some of the better products of the academy are starting to come through.
A lot of work has been put in over the years for us to build good age groups, we are now getting to the stage were the age categories are starting to perform well in tournaments, win competitions and for several of them to be representing their country.
The best of the crop will always be cherry picked by the bigger clubs - Barry and Rogers being a couple, but we still have players that look capable of breaking into the first team set up. The likes of Tulloch, Ferguson, Soule all have high reputations within the academy, then the under 18's squad is littered with talent, some of which may make it, some who may not.
The academy is defiantly worth it, especially if we don't return to the premier league anytime soon. This summer we will already see a lot of Field, Harper, Leko, Edwards in pre season - alongside possibly Fitzwater, Wilson, O'Shea and the others, the academy has produced some good players.
Granted the compensation system does need to be looked at in regards to the Barry deal, but overall how anyone can suggest we scrap the academy baffles me.
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Over the last 3/4 years the academy has been brilliant, producing a string of talented youngsters.
To have young players being pursued by Man City and Barca would have been unthinkable not so long ago. Who can blame those people for taking that chance, our issue should be in the compensation paid for developing players and add on for future sales.
The money involved at first team levels with promotion or relegation means it will always hard to make the breakthrough for younger players.
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FA are helping top six clubs run a monopoly and eufa are doing the same, anyone with a bit of education willing to pen letter to local politicians regarding underage players.
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Reports on Twitter that U18's boss Mike Scott is leaving to go to Derby County as Head of Academy Coaching
https://twitter.com/mattwilson_star/status/1148574479125307395
I think what's worse than us being unable to stop youth players leaving to other clubs, is allowing the people that run this successful academy to leave. Why are we allowing people so important to our youth system to leave, this is surely something that we can prevent?
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Reports on Twitter that U18's boss Mike Scott is leaving to go to Derby County as Head of Academy Coaching
https://twitter.com/mattwilson_star/status/1148574479125307395
I think what's worse than us being unable to stop youth players leaving to other clubs, is allowing the people that run this successful academy to leave. Why are we allowing people so important to our youth system to leave, this is surely something that we can prevent?
There must be more to this whole scenario than what we are aware of.
Harrison leaving
Shan leaving ( granted this one may be for a challenge as a manager somewhere)
Scott leaving
Along with Barry and Rogers moving on.
Seems a bit bizarre they all seem to be jumping ship of what's considered a good academy.
Only reason I can see behind Scott leaving is perhaps he hasn't been considered here for Harrison's position and is choosing to have a 'better' job at another academy?
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Maybe the talent our Academy is producing is too good publicity for it. Can imagine quite a few envious eyes being cast towards it.
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One of the problems with our academy is that in the past the structure/coaches had been there for a long time, and were well trusted, so could give genuine advice on whether a player was ready for the step-up. By going cheap on the first team management, the club has lost Darren Moore and Jimmy Shan from the setup completely, leaving it with less experienced coaches, and removing some of the clear pathways that previously existed.
I wouldnt be surprised if we were very tight when it comes to wages of the young players, relying heavily on appearance/performance bonuses rather than wages, whilst also being very negative towards players' agents. All this is bound to push the players' representatives to recommend them move elsewhere, which will generate the agent more cash in the short term, with little regard to the player's ongoing development.
Why should a player be loyal if the club doesn't show they respect their talent?
Neither of whom particularly used the academy for anything important. Moore did eventually use Harper in league games but that was about it, Shan used Edwards for 3 games then permanently dropped him and was less inclined to use youth players than even Moore.
They might have come from the youth teams but neither were good for their pathways. Farke at Norwich was 1000 times better and he was from outside the club. Lampard and Bielsa were also much better at using their academy players than either Moore or particularly Shan.
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Well looking at the talent from our academy being scouted & brought by the top teams in the WORLD i'd say our academy staff are doing a great job,Thanks guys.
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Time to just shut it down. We’re getting absolutely nothing from it and any player with a single ounce of talent is simply being hoovered up. It flat out stinks.
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Time to just shut it down. We’re getting absolutely nothing from it and any player with a single ounce of talent is simply being hoovered up. It flat out stinks.
Except giving local kids the opportunity to become footballers. Not everything is about ROI.
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Time to just shut it down. We’re getting absolutely nothing from it and any player with a single ounce of talent is simply being hoovered up. It flat out stinks.
Our academy is in profit! And we should champion something that gives a chance to kids whether we get a benefit or not. It’s hardly a kings ransome in today’s footballing terms - certainly not for a premiership or higher championship team
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48926872 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48926872)
Exeter City fans have funded the signing of former West Bromwich Albion midfielder Noah Smerdon for an undisclosed fee.
Exeter's 1931 Fund comprises around 60 supporters who each donate £19 per month to help pay for a new member of the League Two club's squad.
Smerdon, 18, began his career as a youth with Albion before joining non-league side Gloucester City in 2017.
The Baggies are entitled to a fee for Smerdon's development.
"I'm delighted to have joined Exeter City, I know about the history of the club and the players that have come through here. It's a really good opportunity," Smerdon said.
The fund has previously helped pay wages of players including James Norwood, Graham Cummins, Pierce Sweeney and Jack Sparkes.
Yet more money to put into the coffers - I'm sure it will be a nominally small fee, but better than nothing, keep the coins rolling in.
Time to just shut it down. We’re getting absolutely nothing from it and any player with a single ounce of talent is simply being hoovered up. It flat out stinks.
Makes further mockery of comments like this ;)
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Something more to consider regarding the academy is Brexit. Sometime in the next 2years the employment laws affecting EU passport holders will change and they will not have automatic right to work here making young British talent even more valuable and expensive.
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Darren Moore getting the Doncaster job is beneficial or could be for us as a club.
Good opportunity for us to get Leko and Wilson on season long loans there for game time, perhaps even O'shea if we want to continue his development.
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Darren Moore getting the Doncaster job is beneficial or could be for us as a club.
Good opportunity for us to get Leko and Wilson on season long loans there for game time, perhaps even O'shea if we want to continue his development.
No he wouldn't pick them mate
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Under 23 beat Alvechurch today 4-1.
Owen Windsor scored. Interesting that Jamie Soule wasn’t in the match day squad.
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Under 23 beat Alvechurch today 4-1.
Owen Windsor scored. Interesting that Jamie Soule wasn’t in the match day squad.
Interesting or worrying?
There were rumours he was the next one to be picked off.
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Worrying I'd say. He's got a year left on his contract so unless he's going to sign an extension we may as well get some sort of money while we can.
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/eight-youngsters-sign-pro-deals/ (https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/eight-youngsters-sign-pro-deals/)
A talented pool of Albion youngsters have committed their futures to The Hawthorns with eight signing professional contracts.
Six Academy graduates have agreed one-year contracts with a further 12-month option in the Club’s favour, while goalkeeper Brad House has negotiated a new one-year contract at The Hawthorns.
Two of Albion’s FA Youth Cup semi-finalists, Finn Azaz and George Harmon, have penned new deals, while Jack Chambers, Nick Clayton-Phillips, Dan Meredith and Sam Wilding have all pledged their futures to the Club.
Meanwhile, Albion fought off fierce competition to secure the signature of highly-rated forward Owen Windsor from Cirencester Town earlier in the summer.
The 17-year-old, who signed a two-year deal with a further 12-month option in the Club’s favour, became one of non-league football’s most coveted youngsters after netting six goals in seven starts for the Southern League Division One South side in their last campaign.
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/eight-youngsters-sign-pro-deals/ (https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/eight-youngsters-sign-pro-deals/)
A talented pool of Albion youngsters have committed their futures to The Hawthorns with eight signing professional contracts.
Six Academy graduates have agreed one-year contracts with a further 12-month option in the Club’s favour, while goalkeeper Brad House has negotiated a new one-year contract at The Hawthorns.
Two of Albion’s FA Youth Cup semi-finalists, Finn Azaz and George Harmon, have penned new deals, while Jack Chambers, Nick Clayton-Phillips, Dan Meredith and Sam Wilding have all pledged their futures to the Club.
Meanwhile, Albion fought off fierce competition to secure the signature of highly-rated forward Owen Windsor from Cirencester Town earlier in the summer.
The 17-year-old, who signed a two-year deal with a further 12-month option in the Club’s favour, became one of non-league football’s most coveted youngsters after netting six goals in seven starts for the Southern League Division One South side in their last campaign.
Glad we have tied Clayton Phillips down, he looks like he could be the next one to get near the first team, looks tidy on the ball and chips in with his fair share of goals.
Worryingly, Soule isn't named on that list. The club will be trying to get him to sign a deal, finished top scorer last year and had some big clubs monitoring him in semi final. Be interested to see what happens with him over the next few weeks/months.
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Glad we have tied Clayton Phillips down, he looks like he could be the next one to get near the first team, looks tidy on the ball and chips in with his fair share of goals.
Worryingly, Soule isn't named on that list. The club will be trying to get him to sign a deal, finished top scorer last year and had some big clubs monitoring him in semi final. Be interested to see what happens with him over the next few weeks/months.
Yes Clayton Phillips has often shown up well on highlights clips I've caught. Soule has one year left on his existing deal which might be why he's not mentioned here. I'd assume we are trying to get him to sign an extension and if he doesn't we'll no doubt look to sell and recoup some money as he's got that one year left.
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Glad we have tied Clayton Phillips down, he looks like he could be the next one to get near the first team, looks tidy on the ball and chips in with his fair share of goals.
Worryingly, Soule isn't named on that list. The club will be trying to get him to sign a deal, finished top scorer last year and had some big clubs monitoring him in semi final. Be interested to see what happens with him over the next few weeks/months.
Hasn't Soule already signed a contract as he is older and it runs out next season. So more like the Harper situation rather than Barry.
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Really hope that we right the wrongs of last summer and find a way of managing the 18-21 years olds better in the next 6 months.
It was obvious last summer that Field, Leko, Harper, Edwards and Burke were not part of Moore's immediate plans, and yet all of them stayed here for 5 months in the reserves. In January we sent Burke away, but kept the rest, and while that was right for Harper, Edwards and Field still only had limited time and Leko did not feature.
We must make an accurate assessment of these players this summer, as Leko has had 2 wasted years now where he hasn't developed. He probably never will, but i'd like to see him on loan at an attacking league 1 side. It is jarder to judge what to do with Edwards, Field, Fitzwater and O Shea, but i'd hope atleast 1 of them goes out on loan, else we should be using them regularly in the 1st team. The same goes for the likes of Tulloch and Soule (if we aren't going to use then), Clayton-Phillips, Ferguson and Azaz.
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Really hope that we right the wrongs of last summer and find a way of managing the 18-21 years olds better in the next 6 months.
It was obvious last summer that Field, Leko, Harper, Edwards and Burke were not part of Moore's immediate plans, and yet all of them stayed here for 5 months in the reserves. In January we sent Burke away, but kept the rest, and while that was right for Harper, Edwards and Field still only had limited time and Leko did not feature.
We must make an accurate assessment of these players this summer, as Leko has had 2 wasted years now where he hasn't developed. He probably never will, but i'd like to see him on loan at an attacking league 1 side. It is jarder to judge what to do with Edwards, Field, Fitzwater and O Shea, but i'd hope atleast 1 of them goes out on loan, else we should be using them regularly in the 1st team. The same goes for the likes of Tulloch and Soule (if we aren't going to use then), Clayton-Phillips, Ferguson and Azaz.
Think that's the key, we need to use them in the 1st team at every opportunity unless there's a really strong case for putting someone else in (which hasn't tended to be the case, certainly in midfield). We have to stop treating them as a last resort and then casting them to one side if they make a mistake.
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The club don't have a plan for the young players development after they were promoted to the first team.
Most of them couldn't get game time here but didn't go out on loan.
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The club don't have a plan for the young players development after they were promoted to the first team.
Most of them couldn't get game time here but didn't go out on loan.
Think there's this situation where a certain number of them provide important cover in the squad and in terms of numerical cover the club needs them to stay with us. This is what we are saying, if they are in that situation and stay with us they need proper chances to play in the 1st team or they'll just stagnate.
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100% itk post.... Nick Clayton Phillips is going out on loan after pre-season. Club hasn't been finalised yet but this is great news. We need to get our talent out playing against men, and I'm really looking forward to how this new crop do.
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One things thats not the clubs fault is the shambolic rule of shutting the loan window , we could have sent a few out for a couple of months but instead they sit here playing the odd U23 game or bench warm.
No wonder a lot of kids don't make it .
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I know and understand why the much maligned Tony Pulis received so much flak, but wasn’t he the one that initially promoted the idea of getting our kids out playing against men?
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100% itk post.... Nick Clayton Phillips is going out on loan after pre-season. Club hasn't been finalised yet but this is great news. We need to get our talent out playing against men, and I'm really looking forward to how this new crop do.
I like the look of this lad, good vision and clever with the ball.
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Looks like our young lads have come home fresh from a tournament win in Czech Republic
https://twitter.com/wbalatest/status/1153369760320630785 (https://twitter.com/wbalatest/status/1153369760320630785)
WBA Latest
@wbalatest
·
15h
WBA U19s won the FC Victoria Plzsen Tournament in Czech Republic at the weekend. They beat MTK Budapest 0-4 in the final. Jamie Soule scoring 2, Asomugha and Gardner-Hickman scoring 1 each.
Jamie Soule also won Player of the Tournament! Well in boys 👍🏻
#wba #westbrom #wbau19
https://twitter.com/jaysoule9/status/1153377546299420672 (https://twitter.com/jaysoule9/status/1153377546299420672)
Jamie Soule
@jaysoule9
Tournament winners 🥇4 goals âš½ï¸ & a great feeling to win player of the tournament âš½ï¸🏆 All thanks to my team â¤ï¸
@WBA
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I like the look of this lad, good vision and clever with the ball.
Clayton Phillips and Soule seem to be the pick of the 'next batch' of youngsters.
Really surprised they haven't been taken on the pre season tour to be honest as they both seem to have a bit about them.
A loan will do Clayton Phillips the world of good, he seems a massive baggies fan too.
Soule is an interesting one, last year of his contract, has had reported interest from some big clubs, seems to be scoring for fun and winning a lot of accolades, really thought he would have been taken with the first team especially as our attacking numbers are/were low. Be interested to see how it develops with him and if he stays here.
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Clayton Phillips and Soule seem to be the pick of the 'next batch' of youngsters.
Really surprised they haven't been taken on the pre season tour to be honest as they both seem to have a bit about them.
A loan will do Clayton Phillips the world of good, he seems a massive baggies fan too.
Soule is an interesting one, last year of his contract, has had reported interest from some big clubs, seems to be scoring for fun and winning a lot of accolades, really thought he would have been taken with the first team especially as our attacking numbers are/were low. Be interested to see how it develops with him and if he stays here.
both need a loan, as does Tulloch, Wilson, and leko (who cant afford to stagnate another year)
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Since last season we've lost the Academy manager Mark Harrison to Villa, Mike Scott the under 18s coach to Derby and Jamie Smith academy/under 23 coach I think, who's gone to join Darren Moore at Doncaster.
Jimmie Shan also gone of course so no chance of him working with the academy.
Not sure if I've missed anything but have any appointments been made, especially to Harrison's role ?
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Since last season we've lost the Academy manager Mark Harrison to Villa, Mike Scott the under 18s coach to Derby and Jamie Smith academy/under 23 coach I think, who's gone to join Darren Moore at Doncaster.
Jimmie Shan also gone of course so no chance of him working with the academy.
Not sure if I've missed anything but have any appointments been made, especially to Harrison's role ?
This is something that must not be ignored. As a football club, its tempting to just think about the next season, but it needs to think medium and long term. The record of the Academy in developing talent is there for all to see. Even if some escape to bigger clubs, there will be the Harpers, Fields, Edwards and Sawyers. Obviously it needs the right staff in place. to discover and develop them.
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Change should be embraced and looked on as a positive opportunity to improve and to introduce new personnel with fresh methods and ideas to develop our youngsters and should not be feared. I’m sure Slaven will have input to recruitment of these vacant posts
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As well as replacing the staff we lost we really need to utilise the loan market; Wilson Fitzwater tulloch Soule. One of leko or Edwards. And if Sam field isn't going to figure a half season loan minimum so he doesn't regress
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To those of you saying we need to close down the academy, I would say this;
We've all seen the way transfer values are changing; after the first £200m player, Neymar, values are readjusting to the new market - even without the English home grown premium.
In this landscape, where you need to part with £20m+ to get an average player, clubs are going to be making less transfers each summer, and will become more reliant on their academies to fill out their squad.
To close down our academy against this backdrop would be foolish to say the least, and leave us reliant on an over-inflated transfer market to fill the squad.
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To those of you saying we need to close down the academy, I would say this;
We've all seen the way transfer values are changing; after the first £200m player, Neymar, values are readjusting to the new market - even without the English home grown premium.
In this landscape, where you need to part with £20m+ to get an average player, clubs are going to be making less transfers each summer, and will become more reliant on their academies to fill out their squad.
To close down our academy against this backdrop would be foolish to say the least, and leave us reliant on an over-inflated transfer market to fill the squad.
I have been questioning the justification for the Academy, but you make a very good point, whilst we haven't received any cash for the Harpers / Fields etc, we haven't had to fill those roles at current wages and recruitment fees, what is this worth to the club? its an impossible question to answer but must be weighed in the financial justification somehow.
IF we are here in 2 years time with 4 or 5 of our "own" in the first team squad its got to be worth somewhere in the region of 50-100m minimum on the balance sheet surely.
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I hope all those that are troubled by the loss of coaching staff from the ranks of coaching our youngsters will be reassured, to some extent, by the appointment of Appy. I'm sure a few more quality appointments will be forthcoming.
Change creates opportunities.
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I hope all those that are troubled by the loss of coaching staff from the ranks of coaching our youngsters will be reassured, to some extent, by the appointment of Appy. I'm sure a few more quality appointments will be forthcoming.
Change creates opportunities.
I'm not reassured. Nothing against the bloke but he seems to come back here at every opportunity, which suggests to me he has a powerful friend here so i'm not sure why this in itself should be reassuring.
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Not happy with it. They now have someone in place should they upset Bilić to the extent he walks. It stinks tbh and I'm sick of seeing former players getting jobs.
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Not happy with it. They now have someone in place should they upset Bilić to the extent he walks. It stinks tbh and I'm sick of seeing former players getting jobs.
Says the man who implored the board to give the main job to...a former player last summer ;D
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Says the man who implored the board to give the main job to...a former player last summer ;D
Totally different and you know it. Moore earned the job with his PL results. Plus there was no outstanding candidate.
This appointment reeks of Jenkins and Dowling pulling a fast one in the next 4 days.
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Totally different and you know it. Moore earned the job with his PL results. Plus there was no outstanding candidate.
This appointment reeks of Jenkins and Dowling pulling a fast one in the next 4 days.
There was and he achieved what his club wanted, promotion. If we hadn't reportedly messed him around and forced a backroom team on him he would have been here but I have no doubt for one minute he would have failed to get us up just as his current club would have failed to go up if they hadn't been taken over by the right people at the right time but thats all in the past so we will be "encouraging" you all to move on now and stick to the thread !! hint hint hint !!!! ;)
I also think this appointment is just a case of sit and wait for Appleton and somewhere along the line a chance will come in the hop seat.
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There was and he achieved what his club wanted, promotion. If we hadn't reportedly messed him around and forced a backroom team on him he would have been here but I have no doubt for one minute he would have failed to get us up just as his current club would have failed to go up if they hadn't been taken over by the right people at the right time but thats all in the past so we will be "encouraging" you all to move on now and stick to the thread !! hint hint hint !!!! ;)
I also think this appointment is just a case of sit and wait for Appleton and somewhere along the line a chance will come in the hop seat.
Assume we had Grealish transfer wrapped up then?
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Assume we had Grealish transfer wrapped up then?
If you want to discuss Grealish then use the villa thread in the general sports forum.
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If you want to discuss Grealish then use the villa thread in the general sports forum.
If you want to discuss Smith meet me in there ;)
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I'm amazed that some fans consider Slaven to be naive enough in agreeing to the appointment of a man to take his job and a board of directors who thinks he is. ;)
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If you want to discuss Smith meet me in there ;)
Crack on then, post what you like in there as longas its in the right place, from now on any posts in the wrong place will be gone, time we went back to being the little Hitlers on here, getting past a joke how some are starting to take the urine
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Crack on then, post what you like in there as longas its in the right place, from now on any posts in the wrong place will be gone, time we went back to being the little Hitlers on here, getting past a joke how some are starting to take the urine
You brought Smith up not me? Haha. ;D
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You brought Smith up not me? Haha. ;D
Yep, as you were also discussing it already and you seem to be ignoring the part where I posted
so we will be "encouraging" you all to move on now and stick to the thread !! hint hint hint !!!! ;)
So by having that part pointed out you will not have any complaints if any further messages in this thread get removed.
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Richard Cresswell has left his post as Head of Academy coaching at Leeds.
https://twitter.com/rcressy25/status/1159017769570066433
There's a rumour doing the rounds he may pitch up here along with former Baggie Jonathan Greening.
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Richard Cresswell has left his post as Head of Academy coaching at Leeds.
https://twitter.com/rcressy25/status/1159017769570066433
There's a rumour doing the rounds he may pitch up here along with former Baggie Jonathan Greening.
That's a nice rumour to be going around, I loved watching Jesus play and would be great to have him back. First player i saw at the Albion who could regularly pass a ball more than 30 yards to feet.
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That's a nice rumour to be going around, I loved watching Jesus play and would be great to have him back. First player i saw at the Albion who could regularly pass a ball more than 30 yards to feet.
if his Twitter pic is anything to go by, he’s transitioning from Jesus to Santa Claus!!
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with 2 loans incoming- leko needs a season long loan at league 1 to resurrect his career. we could probably do the same with burke if anybody will take him. he needs a run of games he isn't going to get it here
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If Wilson, Leko, and Field aren't sent out on loan its a huge waste of their development. They'd be better off sold for their sake.
Field will do for a lower championship club, Leko really needs to go somewhere low down where he'll get plenty of chance to work on his end product. No good sending him somewhere he'll just get benched like when he went to Bristol City. There's a good player there he just needs games to work on it.
I'd also say Burke should probably be loaned out as well as its difficult to see him developing as he's surely be well down. He's never in a million years a striker, needs to go somewhere to work on his game as a winger.
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@RowdenJRSG is one, if not the top authority in youth football in England (writing about youth football I should add).
He does come down very much on the side of the player, and he does have a bit of a big club mentality (being a United fan), but he has told some uncomfortable truths tonight (even if he comes across as a bit of a d***head in how he replies to people).
We get funny about players leaving our academy, and yet we are set to sign 2 wingers, 1 from West Ham's academy which will block our 3 home grown options, just like we did with Murphy and Montero. Now there are some good counter arguments we can make, but ultimately we have 3 players there who look set to again sit in a bit of a no mans land at the club, not going out on loan to assist their development, but sitting behind other clubs players in the pecking order.
It is something the club really needs to work out a long term answer to, and yet more evidence of a very confused thought process than runs throughout everything the club does.
Leko and Edwards might not be quite good enough, but Tulloch isn't even getting the chance to fail.
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We need to use the loan system better.
If Field, Edwards and Leko had all gone out last season to league one, not only would they all likely be better players, we would have a better idea of their long term ability and potential. In hindsight they all could have gone out but even at the time most of us would have thought they could.
Then at 20/21 you can then give them more of a chance rather than still having as much doubt. Truth is, not many 18 year olds are playing regularly in the prem or championship so 18/19 you have to get them out and playing. Sink or swim.
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@RowdenJRSG is one, if not the top authority in youth football in England (writing about youth football I should add).
He does come down very much on the side of the player, and he does have a bit of a big club mentality (being a United fan), but he has told some uncomfortable truths tonight (even if he comes across as a bit of a d***head in how he replies to people).
We get funny about players leaving our academy, and yet we are set to sign 2 wingers, 1 from West Ham's academy which will block our 3 home grown options, just like we did with Murphy and Montero. Now there are some good counter arguments we can make, but ultimately we have 3 players there who look set to again sit in a bit of a no mans land at the club, not going out on loan to assist their development, but sitting behind other clubs players in the pecking order.
It is something the club really needs to work out a long term answer to, and yet more evidence of a very confused thought process than runs throughout everything the club does.
Leko and Edwards might not be quite good enough, but Tulloch isn't even getting the chance to fail.
He's an interesting account and right on this issue (although he does tend to horrifically overrate how good youth players are in the first place), you can't offer zero pathway and expect players to say - with that said I'd be extremely disappointed if Edwards who's regularly shined doesn't get a lot of game time this year.
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@RowdenJRSG is one, if not the top authority in youth football in England (writing about youth football I should add).
He does come down very much on the side of the player, and he does have a bit of a big club mentality (being a United fan), but he has told some uncomfortable truths tonight (even if he comes across as a bit of a d***head in how he replies to people).
We get funny about players leaving our academy, and yet we are set to sign 2 wingers, 1 from West Ham's academy which will block our 3 home grown options, just like we did with Murphy and Montero. Now there are some good counter arguments we can make, but ultimately we have 3 players there who look set to again sit in a bit of a no mans land at the club, not going out on loan to assist their development, but sitting behind other clubs players in the pecking order.
It is something the club really needs to work out a long term answer to, and yet more evidence of a very confused thought process than runs throughout everything the club does.
Leko and Edwards might not be quite good enough, but Tulloch isn't even getting the chance to fail.
Good post. Our brightest youngsters must be given good opportunities to make their mark in the first team. Our Academy has certainly been producing players capable of establishing themselves.
However, I think the squad badly needed topping up after the players we lost from last season. Its a long season of at least 46 games, and there will be injuries and suspensions. Even recruiting 2 wingers (as its looking like) shouldn't close the door to Edwards. He could even be used through the middle.
I hope Tulloch too gets more oportunities, but I wouldn't want him as sole back up. Obviously some of the Academy will have to be loaned out and it will be a tough call. Maybe Tulloch falls into that group.
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Hopefully Edwards has earned the right to stay in the side for Saturday regardless of who comes in. Whoever is signed tomorrow won't have much bedding in time for Saturday.
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Hopefully Edwards has earned the right to stay in the side for Saturday regardless of who comes in. Whoever is signed tomorrow won't have much bedding in time for Saturday.
Guessing any new signings will only make the bench the weekend, will start in the cup next Tuesday.
I’d be suprised if he even changed the starting line up for Saturday from the one that started Forest.
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Leko and field out. I doubt more will go today as league one and league 2 clubs have to September. I guess the dust will settle then we can see what the squad looks like.
We should be taking advantage of the situation at Bolton- they have no players the likes of Wilson O'Shea or Fitzwater could go there and get some serious game time
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Leko and field out. I doubt more will go today as league one and league 2 clubs have to September. I guess the dust will settle then we can see what the squad looks like.
We should be taking advantage of the situation at Bolton- they have no players the likes of Wilson O'Shea or Fitzwater could go there and get some serious game time
We would usually have 4 centre backs in the squad and I'd think O'Shea is 4th CB at least.
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Right then. First team's sorted (for now), time for some coaching promotions/appointments across the board at Academy Level. We don't want any of our fringe or potential young uns becoming disillusioned with the set up and jumping ship to the Vile. Chop chop Messrs Dowling and Appleton.
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Right then. First team's sorted (for now), time for some coaching promotions/appointments across the board at Academy Level. We don't want any of our fringe or potential young uns becoming disillusioned with the set up and jumping ship to the Vile. Chop chop Messrs Dowling and Appleton.
i thought Appy was bringing Jesus Greening back with him, anyone seen confirmation of this?
BTW has anyone ever seen Ryan Sidebottom and Jonathan in the same room
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i thought Appy was bringing Jesus Greening back with him, anyone seen confirmation of this?
BTW has anyone ever seen Ryan Sidebottom and Jonathan in the same room
That was a rumour I passed on following Richard Cresswell's departure from Leed's Academy but I've heard nothing since. I have no idea whether Johno's ever been seen in the side or even the back of Ryan's bottom. Scurrilous rumours........
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Under23's at Home to Man Utd tonight , 7pm kick off .
Might well be covered by MUTV .
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I may have missed it but that looks a lot like Myhill sat next to Appleton tonight , 0-0 at min . Soule with our best chance.
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0-3 HT , all over the place to be honest .
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We would usually have 4 centre backs in the squad and I'd think O'Shea is 4th CB at least.
i think Oshea is already a better centre back than Bartley,and would be surprised if he wasn't used this season
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United had 3 of their top under 23's unavailable tonight, while we have put out one of the strongest under 23 sides we are likely to put out all season.
Disappointing to see them get such a big hammering.
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United had 3 of their top under 23's unavailable tonight, while we have put out one of the strongest under 23 sides we are likely to put out all season.
Disappointing to see them get such a big hammering.
It was a dreadful performance and while not one to knee jerk its a possible worrying sign of things to come .
A lot of our team played in the FA Youth Cup run , add to that Fitzwater in the back line whose played plenty of league games . Tulloch , my main reason for watching was poor and Soule looked light weight .
This was against a weakened side as Baggies says and a average team anyway now , could easily have been 6 or 7 .
Frankly embarrassing performance.
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Playing at the Hawthorns tonight v Sunderland 7pm KO. I am going up and i am taking my 5 year old Granddaughter to her first game! I am really nervous and i am praying she enjoys it and doesn't want to go home after 10 minutes!!
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Playing at the Hawthorns tonight v Sunderland 7pm KO. I am going up and i am taking my 5 year old Granddaughter to her first game! I am really nervous and i am praying she enjoys it and doesn't want to go home after 10 minutes!!
I've decided I'm going up too. Be good to have a look at the kids coming through.
I'm sure your granddaughter will love it. Hopefully that's another new fan we can hook.
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Half time 4-0 and cruising. Soule, Willock 2, tulloch. Got some good kids here.
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Finished 6-0 Soule again and a beauty from Azaz
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Booking their places in the first team?
Looks good for them.
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Jekyll and Hyde stuff after the Yanited performance.
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Booking their places in the first team?
Looks good for them.
There's some talent there that's for sure. It's one game against a team they were a level above and I'd like to see them three or four times before making a proper judgement. No-one looked poor to be honest but a few stand outs for me:
Dan Meredith - Very impressive at right back. Get's forward constantly. Uses the bell well, thinks quickly. Good athleticism. What he's like defensively I've no idea it was pretty much all Albion all game, but he's one I'd keep an eye on. So much energy.
Jack Fitzwater - You can see why he's played league football. He's a bit of leader, committed, used the ball well and won just about everything in the air. Again not tested enough defensively but I wouldn't be writing him off just yet.
Finn Azaz - Lovely footballer. Played in the Sawyers position. Two good feet, good vision, not only can spot a pass but can execute them too. Doesn't just play sideways. Not sure how athletic he is but he's a good footballer. Only 18. Another one to watch.
Those three were the pick for me, not that any of them did much wrong. Not sure about the left back Harman, got run by Sunderland's right winger three times first half. Tulloch and Willock did OK without pulling up trees,Clayton-Phillips showed glimpses.
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U23 side lost 2-1 at Reading, Jamie Soule opened the scoring for us
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/september2/reading-pl2-v-albion-pl2-match-report/
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U23 side lost 2-1 at Reading, Jamie Soule opened the scoring for us
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/september2/reading-pl2-v-albion-pl2-match-report/
I, and probably quite a few others, haven't seen Jamie Soule play, but he seems to be scoring for fun at the minute. Would be interested in the views of those who have seen him. Is he near first team ability or is that a way down the road?
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I, and probably quite a few others, haven't seen Jamie Soule play, but he seems to be scoring for fun at the minute. Would be interested in the views of those who have seen him. Is he near first team ability or is that a way down the road?
Quick , sharp and a neat finisher . Physically light at the minute for me though
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Bit surprised to see Jamie Soule (19 in a couple of months), Nick Clayton-Phillips (20 this month), Finn Azaz (19), Rayhaan Tulloch (18) and Jack Fitzwater (22 in a few weeks) all stay here despite being further away from the first team than I am, especially with how well Leko’s loan spell has started. Not quite sure what the grand plan is with these lads if i’m honest, and I worry we will lose them without them ever playing for us with at least 1 or 2 coming back to bite. All of these lads had stand out ore seasons one way or another (be that playing first team, or impressing for the reserves), yet they will now spend another few months playing reserve football with no real chance of making first team.
Can’t blame the likes of Barry, Rodgers, Smith, Sinclair, Brown, Roberts, Dhanda and Throne for leaving our academy in recent years, because, despite giving a couple of these lads opportunities, we are still falling back on giving enough of them the right pathways.
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Bit surprised to see Jamie Soule (19 in a couple of months), Nick Clayton-Phillips (20 this month), Finn Azaz (19), Rayhaan Tulloch (18) and Jack Fitzwater (22 in a few weeks) all stay here despite being further away from the first team than I am, especially with how well Leko’s loan spell has started. Not quite sure what the grand plan is with these lads if i’m honest, and I worry we will lose them without them ever playing for us with at least 1 or 2 coming back to bite. All of these lads had stand out ore seasons one way or another (be that playing first team, or impressing for the reserves), yet they will now spend another few months playing reserve football with no real chance of making first team.
Can’t blame the likes of Barry, Rodgers, Smith, Sinclair, Brown, Roberts, Dhanda and Throne for leaving our academy in recent years, because, despite giving a couple of these lads opportunities, we are still falling back on giving enough of them the right pathways.
They blow far too hot and cold in u23s never mind men's football. All you mention, with the exception of Fitzwater who is unlikely to be good enough, have 2 or 3 more seasons to make a bid for the first team or head out on loan. You'd be looking at non league for all of these lads for a loan move at this stage, not sure it would do them much good.
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Myhill is the new goalkeeping coach and a user on another forum has hinted that the other positions will be filled in the coming days, reckons Fletcher may be one of them. I don’t know this user and can’t vouch for validity.
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Myhill is the new goalkeeping coach and a user on another forum has hinted that the other positions will be filled in the coming days, reckons Fletcher may be one of them. I don’t know this user and can’t vouch for validity.
I know who you mean , lives in fantasy land .
Repeats everything he hears off other itk or formally Matt Wilson.
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I know who you mean , lives in fantasy land .
Repeats everything he hears off other itk or formally Matt Wilson.
A positive Slav to those voices of his :-X .
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Birmingham Mail says Coventry City’s Steven Richards leads the options to replace Mark Harrison as Academy Manager with Chris McGuane another option known by Dowling at Watford and Forest.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-west-brom-considering-candidates-16889430
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Richard Stevens expected to be the new academy manager. He’s done extremely well at Coventry, who have bought through the likes of James Maddison and Callum Wilson. Can’t help but feel we may have actually improved on Mark Harrison. Well done to Luke Dowling imo, he has done very well so far in his appointments.
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West Brom are set to hire David Kerslake as their new head of academy coaching, according to The Athletic journalist Steve Madeley
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West Brom are set to hire David Kerslake as their new head of academy coaching, according to The Athletic journalist Steve Madeley
A quick search tells me he's never been in an Academy set up. This could be a bit of a risk!
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Welcome to the Albion Richard Stevens..................
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/september2/new-academy-boss-completes-restructure/
.............. as for our youngsters Rico Richards, remember the name.
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Welcome to the Albion Richard Stevens..................
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/september2/new-academy-boss-completes-restructure/
.............. as for our youngsters Rico Richards, remember the name.
Stevens seems a decent appointment based on his experience and record at Coventry.
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Jamie Soule signed a new three year contract. Pleased with this! https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/october/soule-signs-new-three-year-deal/
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Jamie Soule signed a new three year contract. Pleased with this! https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/october/soule-signs-new-three-year-deal/
Yes that is very good news
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Zohore with an easy far post header puts Albion in front in the second half against Swansea
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Apparently dominating and have had two further “ goals†both scored by Zohore disallowed
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bit late but it's live on facebook
https://www.facebook.com/SwanseaCityFC/videos/571290210080330/
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2-0. Zohore with his second. Goals came in 62 and 74 mins
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FT 2-0. A very comfortable win for Albion against a Swansea side with only three players over 21. Hegazi was cool and commanding at the back for Albion and must now surely be ready to step back into the first team.
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Just watched highlights on Swansea TV and we totally dominated - I think they had 2 chances all game. Some really cutting moves by us however like the first team putting them away was the problem
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Won 2-0, big Ken grabbing a brace. Three disallowed first half for offside. Kyle Edwards was superb, their right back will be having nightmares tonight. Hegazi and O'Shea solid at the back, can't think of a worthwhile chance Swansea had. Rekeem Harper showed a bit more spark as well. It was a good evening but bloody cold.
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Won 2-0, big Ken grabbing a brace. Three disallowed first half for offside. Kyle Edwards was superb, their right back will be having nightmares tonight. Hegazi and O'Shea solid at the back, can't think of a worthwhile chance Swansea had. Rekeem Harper showed a bit more spark as well. It was a good evening but bloody cold.
Did Willock feature mate?
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Did Willock feature mate?
Yeah, played wide right. Did OK, looked lively at times particularly first half. Subbed late on for Clayton-Phillips.
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Yeah, played wide right. Did OK, looked lively at times particularly first half. Subbed late on for Clayton-Phillips.
Where did Edwards play then mate?
Sounds like Ken has staked a claim for Monday which is good to hear.
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Glad to hear he got a couple of goals, we certainly need competition up front right now.
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Craig Shakespeare is one of the names under consideration to be the next manager of Albion's under-23s. He watched the Swansea game last night.
Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/10/29/craig-shakespeare-is-contention-for-west-brom-under-23-job/
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Craig Shakespeare is one of the names under consideration to be the next manager of Albion's under-23s. He watched the Swansea game last night.
Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/10/29/craig-shakespeare-is-contention-for-west-brom-under-23-job/
Like the sound of that Craig is another with a wealth of experience and has worked with players of all levels
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Where did Edwards play then mate?
Sounds like Ken has staked a claim for Monday which is good to hear.
Edwards played wide left - the Diangana position.
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Like the sound of that Craig is another with a wealth of experience and has worked with players of all levels
Yes, I’d happily welcome him back to the Albion
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Craig Shakespeare is one of the names under consideration to be the next manager of Albion's under-23s. He watched the Swansea game last night.
Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/10/29/craig-shakespeare-is-contention-for-west-brom-under-23-job/
I like to see coaches with a genuine Albion pedigree, and lets not forget, experience as a Premier League manager. Hope he gets the job and can make his mark there.
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Just read the match report from the Swansea game and I'm wondering if Fitzwater was tried at right back with a view to providing cover for Furlong should need be (while Ferguson is suspended).
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We need to get either Fitzwater or O'Shea out on loan again January
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Young Baggies forward Rico Richards offered new West Brom deal following Arsenal, Liverpool, City and Spurs interest.
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Young Baggies forward Rico Richards offered new West Brom deal following Arsenal, Liverpool, City and Spurs interest.
It's about time the FA put arrangements in place that compensates any club who's young players join another club home or overseas after that player was offered a provincial contract (1st pro contract) buy that club,
That player at the age of 21 should have his value re-assess & further compensation if deemed so by the FA.
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Jovan Malcolm’s future in doubt as Liverpool are interested after he scored 4 past them recently.
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It's about time the FA put arrangements in place that compensates any club who's young players join another club home or overseas after that player was offered a provincial contract (1st pro contract) buy that club,
That player at the age of 21 should have his value re-assess & further compensation if deemed so by the FA.
Yes we have been caught with our trousers down too many times or the the last several years. Anyone know wether Barcelona have paid for Louie Barry yet?
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Yes we have been caught with our trousers down too many times or the the last several years. Anyone know wether Barcelona have paid for Louie Barry yet?
not yet but they have given “assurancesâ€
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Young Baggies forward Rico Richards offered new West Brom deal following Arsenal, Liverpool, City and Spurs interest.
That’s the easy bit out the way. I won’t be holding my breath waiting for him to sign.
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Jovan Malcolm’s future in doubt as Liverpool are interested after he scored 4 past them recently.
We really ought to start playing Liverpool with teams from the Albion Foundation instead of the academy........
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Jovan Malcolm’s future in doubt as Liverpool are interested after he scored 4 past them recently.
sounds like ‘pool will try and throw money at the kid to prevent him signing a professional deal in December when he turns 17.
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Personally I've lost all hope we can hang on to these players.
One of the things I was most excited about with the club over the next 5 year or so was seeing if Barry and Rogers could step up. I'd also have been more than happy to see them then move on after a couple of years if the elite came in.
Yet Barry then goes. Ok I thought, it will still be great to see Rogers who I understand is from a huge Albion family kick on, then almost instantly he goes as well.
I don't blame the kids, but the system is awful. The FA need to do something about it and at least compensate clubs sufficiently, i'm not sure what the prospects of stopping your PSG's and Barcelona's are though.
Fair play to Jude Bellingham for trusting Blues with his career, at least in the short term.
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Jovan Malcolm’s future in doubt as Liverpool are interested after he scored 4 past them recently.
All you can do as a club, is to try and impress on the kids and their parents, that the chances they will get at a club like Liverpool will be far more limited than what they will get at the Albion. The Liverpool's Man City's etc. probably get hundreds of kids through their doors and then reject 90% of them. But then its also down to the Albion, to make the conditions for their development as attractive as possible, with a clear pathway through to the senior squad.
That aside, you'd wonder how a kid of 15 or 16 is going to cope living away from his family and local environment.
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All you can do as a club, is to try and impress on the kids and their parents, that the chances they will get at a club like Liverpool will be far more limited than what they will get at the Albion. The Liverpool's Man City's etc. probably get hundreds of kids through their doors and then reject 90% of them. But then its also down to the Albion, to make the conditions for their development as attractive as possible, with a clear pathway through to the senior squad.
That aside, you'd wonder how a kid of 15 or 16 is going to cope living away from his family and local environment.
I cannot comment upon current status, however I do know that in days gone bye the Albion had a first class network of "lodgings" which the kids were placed with, The Robsons (Brian & Gary) were living in Great Barr in what was as near to a home environment as it was possible to get and I know that both flourished there, Brian did go off the rails when he made it and moved out, but he retained his affinity with the area and had a long term relationship with Lads and lasses from the area. The club actively supervised the relationships between hosts and lodgers and it was a system that worked well.
I doubt that the big clubs use this simple but effective method of operating nowadays and maybe this explains why there seems to be so many primadonnas around
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Jovan Malcolm’s future in doubt as Liverpool are interested after he scored 4 past them recently.
Hate those b@@@@@@s with a passion.
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I cannot comment upon current status, however I do know that in days gone bye the Albion had a first class network of "lodgings" which the kids were placed with, The Robsons (Brian & Gary) were living in Great Barr in what was as near to a home environment as it was possible to get and I know that both flourished there, Brian did go off the rails when he made it and moved out, but he retained his affinity with the area and had a long term relationship with Lads and lasses from the area. The club actively supervised the relationships between hosts and lodgers and it was a system that worked well.
I doubt that the big clubs use this simple but effective method of operating nowadays and maybe this explains why there seems to be so many primadonnas around
My auntie, Lil Green who lived on Stone Cross she Logged a few of the Albion boys Hasa Harford was one.
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Genuine question given I often read we've signed young up and coming talent, but does anyone know how much compensation we've provided other academies when liberating their talent? I only ask as unless they're all freebies I've never read anything about how much they've come in for.
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Genuine question given I often read we've signed young up and coming talent, but does anyone know how much compensation we've provided other academies when liberating their talent? I only ask as unless they're all freebies I've never read anything about how much they've come in for.
I dont recall too many reports of us doing it. I know we signed a lad Cirencester in the summer, but I dont think the situations are comparable.
The club actually made a thing recently about one of the youth sides, may even have been the u23's and I believe all but 1 of the team had been with us since before they were teenagers.
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The track to the 1st team is far harder at most of the top clubs home or abroad than it is with us ( & thats not easy either) so knowing this why do young lads jump at the chance of a move, is it just down to Money or (has for clubs abroad) the sun & life stlye or what.
The FA should have a standard fee when this happens depending on the amount of years been coached only at the mother club (covering costs to said club at least) plus a 2nd payment bassed on his value at 21.
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The problem is that the big clubs can offer enough money over two or three years to change someone's life completely, buy a house for your mum and dad, that kind of thing, even if its just on the off chance that you might come good.
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The problem is that the big clubs can offer enough money over two or three years to change someone's life completely, buy a house for your mum and dad, that kind of thing, even if its just on the off chance that you might come good.
If they can why carnt we
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Our best chance of stopping it from happening is to provide a better alternative than what is on offer. At the moment, while Ferguson and to a lesser extent Edwards are getting chances, Sam Field and Jonathan Leko are on loan at a promotion rival and getting minutes ever game, while players like Soule, Tulloch and Clayton Phillips have no clear progression path.
We need to look at Southampton, Leicester, Palace and even Villa and find out how we can improve our own standing because it can’t be a coincidence we are now the club who gets raided the most at this age.
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If they can why carnt we
We could probably afford one or two if we knew they would make it, but the big clubs can afford to buy up any number you like and if 9/10 end up playing for Plymouth in 10 years it still makes financial sense if 1/10 makes it because even mediocre prem players cost 10s of millons to buy in as the "finished article".
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If they can why carnt we
Er...because they are in the Premier League and don’t have to worry about balancing the books for when the parachute funding runs out.
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Our best chance of stopping it from happening is to provide a better alternative than what is on offer. At the moment, while Ferguson and to a lesser extent Edwards are getting chances, Sam Field and Jonathan Leko are on loan at a promotion rival and getting minutes ever game, while players like Soule, Tulloch and Clayton Phillips have no clear progression path.
We need to look at Southampton, Leicester, Palace and even Villa and find out how we can improve our own standing because it can’t be a coincidence we are now the club who gets raided the most at this age.
None of those clubs are playing 16/17/18 year olds in their first team. It is impossible to guarantee regular first team football at that age.
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Think we have an issue with contracts being offered to these lads. Surely Ferguson should have been offered a longer contract when he first signed, what was it a one or two year.
As for youngsters being tapped up by clubs with deeper pockets if they go they can jog on like Izzy Brown and the rest.
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Think we have an issue with contracts being offered to these lads. Surely Ferguson should have been offered a longer contract when he first signed, what was it a one or two year.
As for youngsters being tapped up by clubs with deeper pockets if they go they can jog on like Izzy Brown and the rest.
Think we tend to be wary of getting lads to think they've made it too soon.....but this does then come back to bite if they suddenly emerge in the first team as Ferguson has. Think we gave Soule a 3 year this season but he's a bit older and about to turn 19.
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Jovan Malcolm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGcFKGU4YME
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Nice to see the U23's win again today, without the squad being augmented with recovering first team players.
Willock's goal shows promise (if we loose GD in January).
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/november/albion-pl2-4-middlesbrough-pl2-1/
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Darren Fletcher has joined the youth coaching staff:-
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/november/fletch-back-to-begin-coaching-journey/
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I’m not a fan of us repeatedly giving jobs to former players, especially Appleton again and again but I think Fletch will make a great coach. I’m sure he was called a mini Ferguson once.
I can see him being a great coach and maybe a good manager.
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Ferguson liked Fletcher as a player and as man. He seems to have a good level-headed brain on him so would be a good addition to the youth setup I think.
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Considering the wholesale changes and lingering controversies that seemed to have overwhelmed the Academy this year, the recent results seem to show a continued, welcome upturn.
Welcome Mick Halsall (another addition from Coventry).
Six goals against Man U for the U18's! :-X
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Considering the wholesale changes and lingering controversies that seemed to have overwhelmed the Academy this year, the recent results seem to show a continued, welcome upturn.
Welcome Mick Halsall (another addition from Coventry).
Six goals against Man U for the U18's! :-X
Good to hear. There seem to have been some good appointments made to overcome the loss of previous good long serving staff. How many have come from Coventry since Richard Stevens took over ?
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it was 5-3, (scoreline has got a familiar ring) still an excellent result nonetheless
https://www.wba.co.uk/fixtures-results/results/
our kids are 3rd in the northern section behind Liverpool and Man City
https://www.google.com/search?q=u18+premier+league+table&oq=U18+&aqs=chrome.2.69i57j0l7.3545j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#sie=lg;/g/11hzmpxzxg;2;/g/11b6rh6xxp;st;fp;1;;
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This is the very time, with tired 1st team players and injuries, when we would hope by now to have the underbelly of 'ready or near ready' young players at our disposal. This side of it has to be improved.
Yes, Ferguson and Edwards are being used as genuine first team squad players but that's basically it.
Field and Leko are injured anyway and out on loan, but with the style we are playing, Field would be the most suitable to step into midfield rather than depending on the ageing legs of Barry and Brunt to provide cover.
Harper - who knows where we are with him at the moment. Other midfielders, Clayton-Phillips where is he at ?
Tulloch + Soule - maybe a year off being at this ready stage but it's nearly a year since Tulloch looked pretty decent against Brighton in the cup.
Maybe Rogers and Barry would have been used (but doubtful), but we couldn't hold onto them anyway.
Rambling thoughts here but generally our underbelly isn't quite what we need at the moment in terms of age profile and perceived readiness.
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Edwards deserves his chance, but don't forget he really performed at the lower level and was part of a play off final team. With Ferguson, Slav obviously spotted something in training that made him sit up and take notice and he was happy to put him straight in. I expected to see more of the kids play a part his year, but then my expectation was that this would be a rebuilding period and I was hoping to be in contention for play-offs come Christmas. We then carried out some fantastic recruitment and a top two team in this division cannot carry any kids - even Edwards blows hot and cold, really struggling on his starts. For me, as much as i would like to see them come through the likes of Field and Leko found their level at Charlton and it may eventually be the same for Edwards. It would be unusual for a top two team to have more than one or two home grown in the team and if we do reach the PL getting ANY players from the academy in the squad even is a real result.
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Edwards deserves his chance, but don't forget he really performed at the lower level and was part of a play off final team. With Ferguson, Slav obviously spotted something in training that made him sit up and take notice and he was happy to put him straight in. I expected to see more of the kids play a part his year, but then my expectation was that this would be a rebuilding period and I was hoping to be in contention for play-offs come Christmas. We then carried out some fantastic recruitment and a top two team in this division cannot carry any kids - even Edwards blows hot and cold, really struggling on his starts. For me, as much as i would like to see them come through the likes of Field and Leko found their level at Charlton and it may eventually be the same for Edwards. It would be unusual for a top two team to have more than one or two home grown in the team and if we do reach the PL getting ANY players from the academy in the squad even is a real result.
What on earth is that supposed to mean ?
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What on earth is that supposed to mean ?
None are good enough for where we want to be.
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Edwards deserves his chance, but don't forget he really performed at the lower level and was part of a play off final team. With Ferguson, Slav obviously spotted something in training that made him sit up and take notice and he was happy to put him straight in. I expected to see more of the kids play a part his year, but then my expectation was that this would be a rebuilding period and I was hoping to be in contention for play-offs come Christmas. We then carried out some fantastic recruitment and a top two team in this division cannot carry any kids - even Edwards blows hot and cold, really struggling on his starts. For me, as much as i would like to see them come through the likes of Field and Leko found their level at Charlton and it may eventually be the same for Edwards. It would be unusual for a top two team to have more than one or two home grown in the team and if we do reach the PL getting ANY players from the academy in the squad even is a real result.
While I agree that I think Edwards natural home is at a club in Charlton’s position, i’m Not sure about the view that top championship clubs can’t play academy players.
Norwich last year had Godfrey, Lewis, Cantwell and Aarons all as regulars while Leeds regularly played Peacock-Farrell, Shackleton, Roberts, Clarke and Phillips (22 at the start of the season) while giving a few other kids around 6 appearances each.
It can be done if you develop the kids correctly at post academy level.
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None are good enough for where we want to be.
That's as maybe, but they may have been good enough for where we are now. I was referring to the lack of respect for Charlton who we could not beat at home.
Too many on here to quick to write off our young players.
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My auntie, Lil Green who lived on Stone Cross she Logged a few of the Albion boys Hasa Harford was one.
Believe her house backed on to my granddads
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Edwards deserves his chance, but don't forget he really performed at the lower level and was part of a play off final team. With Ferguson, Slav obviously spotted something in training that made him sit up and take notice and he was happy to put him straight in. I expected to see more of the kids play a part his year, but then my expectation was that this would be a rebuilding period and I was hoping to be in contention for play-offs come Christmas. We then carried out some fantastic recruitment and a top two team in this division cannot carry any kids - even Edwards blows hot and cold, really struggling on his starts. For me, as much as i would like to see them come through the likes of Field and Leko found their level at Charlton and it may eventually be the same for Edwards. It would be unusual for a top two team to have more than one or two home grown in the team and if we do reach the PL getting ANY players from the academy in the squad even is a real result.
Think Slav obviously rates Edwards and it's good to see him getting some chances. I guess he's still making up ground from a couple of lengthy injury setbacks a couple of years ago including 9 months out with a knee injury. He does have the ability to shift it quickly and get a shot off with either foot, as with the chance he manufactured in a congested box late on against Leeds. He also has pace. If we get to the prem, we are unlikely to splash the cash to the extent of getting multiple high value/quality signings and with this year under his belt I would hope that Edwards would be a match day squad regular as he is this year.
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4-2 win vs Reading tonight in the under 23s. 2 goals apiece for Rayhan Tulloch and Chris Willock takes us to third (I think).
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Yes we are 3rd below Man Utd and West Ham. Good turnaround considering losing 2-0 at halftime.
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4-2 win vs Reading tonight in the under 23s. 2 goals apiece for Rayhan Tulloch and Chris Willock takes us to third (I think).
Did anyone actually see Chris Willock or is he just a Keyser Sosay myth?
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Did anyone actually see Chris Willock or is he just a Keyser Sosay myth?
;D ;D ;D
It is a really odd situation isn’t it. Apart from the snippets we got earlier in the winter from the local press, we have heard very little of what is going on with him. He is performing really well in the reserves, scoring goals and getting assists at will but we have so far not used him, haven’t released him, Benfica haven’t recalled him to send him elsewhere and yet we show no signs of trying to sign him permanently to remove whatever clause it is that seems to be stopping him being given the chance he deserves.
Maybe we will get an answer soon. Seems a bit of a waste of a season for him.
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Did anyone actually see Chris Willock or is he just a Keyser Sosay myth?
Bilic had him warming up extensively, I'm convinced he'd have been on for 20 minutes had we managed to get that elusive 2nd goal, with rumours of a fee per appearance loan, no point in bringing him on at the very end to use up time. No qualms with his use or lack of, at this stage.
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.... with rumours of a fee per appearance loan, no point in bringing him on at the very end to use up time. No qualms with his use or lack of, at this stage.
Bang on the money.
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Been to watch them tonight in the cup v Middlesbrough. We won 4-1.
Despite the emphatic scoreline I wasn't overly impressed to be honest. Boro were the better team first half then forgot how to defend second half. The scoreline flattered us.
Best player on the pitch was our number 4, central midfielder called Toby King. I thought we was superb and has a lot to his game. He played left of the two central midfielders in a 4-2-3-1 and he very much reminded me of Gareth Barry the way he plays. He;s intelligent, uses the ball really well, can ping it long or short, will play forward and he doesn't need a touch to execute a pass. He can tackle, works hard, works back well and always ready to receive the ball and looks a really good prospect.
The lad next to him Jamie Andrews has potential too. He's a tall lad, good passer of the ball and puts a shift in. He receives the ball really well his touch takes takes him into space and creates a yard.
Fin Thorndike tries to do too much constantly. Jovan Malcolm is a strong lad but he's not dominant in the air, he's not blisteringly quick, I expected a bit more from him. Should've scored when clean through, tried to lob the keeper, failed.
The lad on the right side of the three behind Malcolm scored two goals, Tom Fellows is his name, there's a bit of promise there.
Josh Griffiths is decent with his handling but his distribution is poor.
The rest of them weren't up to much. The two lads at centre back, dear me. Harry Williams and Caleb Taylor, they have massive improvement to make if either of them are going to make the grade.
Andrews and King the ones to keep an eye on, particularly King, very impressed with him.
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Max Melbourne has joined Lincoln City on a permanent deal after being there on loan this season
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Max Melbourne has joined Lincoln City on a permanent deal after being there on loan this season
congrats and good luck Max
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All the best Max, :)
keep your feet on the ground & your ears open.
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Under 23 winning 3-0 at Sunderland. Tulloch has scored 2 so far - 48 minutes gone.
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Under 23 winning 3-0 at Sunderland. Tulloch has scored 2 so far - 48 minutes gone.
I think Appleton is a Lincoln, so I hope we have clause in this contract like the roofe one in case he comes good.
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I think Appleton is a Lincoln, so I hope we have clause in this contract like the roofe one in case he comes good.
What have Lincoln got to do with this?
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4-0 now, Azaz with the goal
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What have Lincoln got to do with this?
Melbourne has gone to Lincoln, nothing to do with tonight's game mind you.
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sorry I was not looking further up the thread and got quite confused !
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Good news that Dara O'Shea has penned a new 3 and half year deal.
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Good news that Dara O'Shea has penned a new 3 and half year deal.
Even a topic about him ;)
http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=24158.0
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Even a topic about him ;)
http://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=24158.0
Yep cheers, spotted it after I posted :)
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Following today's cup game (and with the lack of youths named), we really do now need to see some loan moves in the next few days.
Rakeem Harper is the obvious one, but also young Soule and Clayton-Phillips.
I would say Tulloch as well, but with his contract situation that might be difficult.
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Following today's cup game (and with the lack of youths named), we really do now need to see some loan moves in the next few days.
Rakeem Harper is the obvious one, but also young Soule and Clayton-Phillips.
I would say Tulloch as well, but with his contract situation that might be difficult.
As we are still in the cup I don't see Harper going anywhere (unless we make an unlikely midfield signing). He's been injured, so the fact he was on the bench today may not accurately reflect his place in the pecking order.
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He hasn't featured this season and we have 1, maybe 2 cuo games left this season. Far better to give Barry/Brunt those games with Harper going out in loan, rather than letting him waste a year, because if we go up he won't feature next season *unless he gets some momentum elsewhere, ala O'Shea).
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He hasn't featured this season and we have 1, maybe 2 cuo games left this season. Far better to give Barry/Brunt those games with Harper going out in loan, rather than letting him waste a year, because if we go up he won't feature next season *unless he gets some momentum elsewhere, ala O'Shea).
I agree it would do him good but we have 7 league games in Feb plus now 1 cup game (2 if we get a replay). With that number of games I can't see us sending him out on loan and we may regret it if we did.
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Thing is Adder, we played more games than that in the run up to and then over the festive period, but we still only used him in the Charlton cup game. He is behind Barry and Brunt and neither of them have been given much game time. He is highly unlikely to feature at this point.
Keeping him here just to be safe would be another failure to learn from last seasons lessons, where we held on to Sam Field and Jonathan Leko all season and Oli Burke for half a season despite it being plainly obvious by mid August that neither player were part of Moore's plans.
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Jamie Soule should go out on loan after he signed the new deal, but he is still here to play for U23.
We always say the club can't keep the talent, but does the club have a plan for those who stay with us?
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Spot on Koren. For all my frustration with players leaving for nothing, what are we doing to convince them to stay?
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Thing is Adder, we played more games than that in the run up to and then over the festive period, but we still only used him in the Charlton cup game. He is behind Barry and Brunt and neither of them have been given much game time. He is highly unlikely to feature at this point.
Keeping him here just to be safe would be another failure to learn from last seasons lessons, where we held on to Sam Field and Jonathan Leko all season and Oli Burke for half a season despite it being plainly obvious by mid August that neither player were part of Moore's plans.
You could say that Sawyers and Livermore are more knackered now a month further on into the season...also Barry and especially Brunt could very easily twang something and miss another couple of weeks or so. We'll find out this week but I don't think he'll be sent anywhere.
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With a day and a half left of the transfer window, we currently have the following sat gathering dust in under 23 football:
Josh Griffiths (18), who signed a 4 year contract in September, is one of 8 or 9 goalkeepers contracted to the Club over the age of 16. With so many of our young keepers currently not getting game time, surely it would be useful to loan Griffiths out to a Conference or league 2 club for the second half of the season, given he is a 6 foot 6 England youth international.
Rakeem Harper (19) turns 20 in March, has made only 2 or 3 appearances all season. He is currently behind 6 players in the central midfield ranks, and with the signings of 2 wingers/wide forwards today, you have to imagine his chances of making any meaningful contribution between now and the end of the season are highly unlikely. if we fail to get promotion next season, Harper could be a key player who we rely on (with Brunt and Barry set to leave), so do we really want to be relying on him having had near enough no competitive football for a whole year? There will be a number of clubs at the bottom of the championship who would love to take Harper, including Charlton.
Jamie Soule (19) who has scored on a fairly regular basis for the under 23 side is possibly on the small side for a lone striker, something that might hold him back. Regardless of that, he signed a 2 or 3 year pro deal in the summer, and with us having 4 strikers at the club, surely the time has come for him to go out on loan now? If he shows some form in league 1 or 2, maybe then he will be a consideration for next season?
Nick Clayton-Phillips (18) had a great pre season and also signed pro terms this summer. He is currently behind Tulloch and Willock in the under 23 side and nowhere near the first team. Is there any reason why at 18 he can’t go out on loan to league 2?
Finn Azaz (19] has been a steady performer in central midfield for a few years for the under 23s. Despite this, he hasn’t got near the first team picture, even in pre season. At 19, how long has he got left to prove himself? He hasn’t played a single minute of professional football in his career yet we keep him here, waiting for a miracle
Rayhaan Tulloch (19) His contract situation means it is difficult to loan him out this January (unless we tie him down to a deal in the next 24 hours), but I still include him on the list as a bit of a lesson. Last January would have been an ideal time to loan out an 18 year old a Tulloch. Had he gone to league 2 and done well, we could have offered him a longer contract and he might have been a regular sub this summer, instead, he wasted a season in the under 23’s with reports being he will join Rangers in the summer. If he goes on to do well in Scotland, what a waste the last few years will have been.
Dara O’Shea and Kyle Edwards started for us last night, but would not be near the first team picture had it not been for their loan moves in recent seasons to Exeter City. Jonathan Leko found a new lease of life with his loan move to Charlton in the first half of the year, while Marcus Forss (who was behind Soule, Morton, Asomugha & Tulloch in his Albion age group) has now lept ahead of all of them being one of the top scorers in league 1 while on loan from Brentford to Wimbledon.
Top clubs send their young players out on loan to lower league teams to help them develop (Harvey Barnes, Grady Diangana, Mason Mount, Fiyako Tomori, Ben Wilmot and now Rhian Brewster, Connor Gallagher and Marc Guehi).
If I could have one more ask of this window, it would be that the club recognise the need to send at least 2 or 3 of these kids out on loan this window. Let’s start thinking about how we are going to help them go from academy kids to first team players.
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With a day and a half left of the transfer window, we currently have the following sat gathering dust in under 23 football:
Josh Griffiths (18), who signed a 4 year contract in September, is one of 8 or 9 goalkeepers contracted to the Club over the age of 16. With so many of our young keepers currently not getting game time, surely it would be useful to loan Griffiths out to a Conference or league 2 club for the second half of the season, given he is a 6 foot 6 England youth international.
Rakeem Harper (19) turns 20 in March, has made only 2 or 3 appearances all season. He is currently behind 6 players in the central midfield ranks, and with the signings of 2 wingers/wide forwards today, you have to imagine his chances of making any meaningful contribution between now and the end of the season are highly unlikely. if we fail to get promotion next season, Harper could be a key player who we rely on (with Brunt and Barry set to leave), so do we really want to be relying on him having had near enough no competitive football for a whole year? There will be a number of clubs at the bottom of the championship who would love to take Harper, including Charlton.
Jamie Soule (19) who has scored on a fairly regular basis for the under 23 side is possibly on the small side for a lone striker, something that might hold him back. Regardless of that, he signed a 2 or 3 year pro deal in the summer, and with us having 4 strikers at the club, surely the time has come for him to go out on loan now? If he shows some form in league 1 or 2, maybe then he will be a consideration for next season?
Nick Clayton-Phillips (18) had a great pre season and also signed pro terms this summer. He is currently behind Tulloch and Willock in the under 23 side and nowhere near the first team. Is there any reason why at 18 he can’t go out on loan to league 2?
Finn Azaz (19] has been a steady performer in central midfield for a few years for the under 23s. Despite this, he hasn’t got near the first team picture, even in pre season. At 19, how long has he got left to prove himself? He hasn’t played a single minute of professional football in his career yet we keep him here, waiting for a miracle
Rayhaan Tulloch (19) His contract situation means it is difficult to loan him out this January (unless we tie him down to a deal in the next 24 hours), but I still include him on the list as a bit of a lesson. Last January would have been an ideal time to loan out an 18 year old a Tulloch. Had he gone to league 2 and done well, we could have offered him a longer contract and he might have been a regular sub this summer, instead, he wasted a season in the under 23’s with reports being he will join Rangers in the summer. If he goes on to do well in Scotland, what a waste the last few years will have been.
Dara O’Shea and Kyle Edwards started for us last night, but would not be near the first team picture had it not been for their loan moves in recent seasons to Exeter City. Jonathan Leko found a new lease of life with his loan move to Charlton in the first half of the year, while Marcus Forss (who was behind Soule, Morton, Asomugha & Tulloch in his Albion age group) has now lept ahead of all of them being one of the top scorers in league 1 while on loan from Brentford to Wimbledon.
Top clubs send their young players out on loan to lower league teams to help them develop (Harvey Barnes, Grady Diangana, Mason Mount, Fiyako Tomori, Ben Wilmot and now Rhian Brewster, Connor Gallagher and Marc Guehi).
If I could have one more ask of this window, it would be that the club recognise the need to send at least 2 or 3 of these kids out on loan this window. Let’s start thinking about how we are going to help them go from academy kids to first team players.
Agree entirely great post, personally I am gutted that we will lose Tulloch for practically nowt.
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Thanks for the summary by Baggies.
Our Academy have produced some promising youngsters but unfortunately it seems that the club don't care about their development.
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The FA are talking about increasing the quota of British players per squad. More reason for the big clubs to poach from academies like ours.
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The success of our academy could be seen today:
Daniels, Brown, Sawyers, O'Shea, Harper.
Plus on the bench, Tulloch and Edwards.
That is not a bad return...
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And yet it seems we have little faith in them anf aren't creating a happy environment. What a mess we are making of it having soent millions iver the kast 16 or so years in developing it.
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And yet it seems we have little faith in them anf aren't creating a happy environment. What a mess we are making of it having soent millions iver the kast 16 or so years in developing it.
Despite starting Sawyers and O'Shea, with Harper coming off the bench...
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Despite starting Sawyers and O'Shea, with Harper coming off the bench...
A ton of kids left to play under 23 football with no plan on hiw we develop them in to first team footballers, a failure to discuss contract extensions until it is too late, 4 of our most exciting youngsters in 8 months making efforts to move elsehwere and the saga with the academy last summer that saw half of our key coaches move on.
I stand by what I have said for a while, we spot and develop some exciting prospects but after that we fail both the players and ourselves.
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And yet it seems we have little faith in them anf aren't creating a happy environment. What a mess we are making of it having soent millions iver the kast 16 or so years in developing it.
Bilic has played Ferguson, Edwards, Harper, Tulloch and O’Shea this season. Ferguson and Barry both left or have wanted to leave for “bigger clubs†(We would have made 11 mill but for Ferguson’s injury). Think we made 15 Mill on Berahino.
Brown and Daniels are playing for Luton....
Of Sinclair, Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Berahino etc. Which have hit the heights / made it to have amazing careers?
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Bilic has played Ferguson, Edwards, Harper, Tulloch and O’Shea this season. Ferguson and Barry both left or have wanted to leave for “bigger clubs†(We would have made 11 mill but for Ferguson’s injury). Think we made 15 Mill on Berahino.
Brown and Daniels are playing for Luton....
Of Sinclair, Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Berahino etc. Which have hit the heights / made it to have amazing careers?
I've not said we have produced any world class players yet.
We are still a relatively young academy, and yet despite that, we have between 15-20 graduates playing prem/championship football or in leagues in Europe. I think between the ages of 8-16 we do very well and the issue comes with how we handle them post 16.
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Bilic has played Ferguson, Edwards, Harper, Tulloch and O’Shea this season. Ferguson and Barry both left or have wanted to leave for “bigger clubs†(We would have made 11 mill but for Ferguson’s injury). Think we made 15 Mill on Berahino.
Brown and Daniels are playing for Luton....
Of Sinclair, Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Berahino etc. Which have hit the heights / made it to have amazing careers?
Depends what you define as amazing.
Sinclair is still classed as a premier league striker as he’s still at Watford, albeit out on loan.
Dhanda has 2 goals in 8 games this season in the championship.
Izzy Brown currently playing in the championship.
Berahino has scored goals in the premier league and England under 21 set up, fair enough he’s lost his way but still.
You could say they are all success stories of our academy. The aim of the academy is to produce footballers who are good enough to play league football, of course you want to produce ‘world class’ players, but you only have to look through the football league to see it’s littered with players who have come out of our academy.
Nathan Ferguson almost signing for a premier league team for 11million from half a seasons worth of football out of his natural position.
So overall yes it has been successful, and the money from Saido, Rogers, Barry (when we get it) will continue to help keep the academy in profit.
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I've not said we have produced any world class players yet.
We are still a relatively young academy, and yet despite that, we have between 15-20 graduates playing prem/championship football or in leagues in Europe. I think between the ages of 8-16 we do very well and the issue comes with how we handle them post 16.
You’d said it was a mess and we had little faith in them. I was pointing out Bilic was playing young players and maybe we don’t have faith as they aren’t better than our first team players. I was making the point that so far the academy has produced players who are playing at a lower level than where we currently are.
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You’d said it was a mess and we had little faith in them. I was pointing out Bilic was playing young players and maybe we don’t have faith as they aren’t better than our first team players. I was making the point that so far the academy has produced players who are playing at a lower level than where we currently are.
We are talking about different things SirTonyM.
I’m not talking about Bilic giving kids chances in the first team (he is probably the most successful manager in my lifetime at integrating youth players).
I’m talking about everything that sits around our academy. I’ve detailed in length my own issues on this thread in a number of posts.
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Two more players who can be added to the list of 'escapees'...
Tyler Roberts (Leeds) who netted the club £2,000,000 + add on payments.
Kemar Roofe (Anderlecht) who signed for Oxford for an (small) undisclosed fee. The later move to Leeds netted WBA a six figure sell-on windfall.
Yes, I know they could/should have gone for more, but £3M is not insignificant when weighing up academy finances
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Can't believe we never gave Donervon Daniels a run out up front. Sublime finish for our first yesterday. Shakes head in disbelief at another one having slipped through the net. A tale of woe and wasted potential.
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Two more players who can be added to the list of 'escapees'...
Tyler Roberts (Leeds) who netted the club £2,000,000 + add on payments.
Kemar Roofe (Anderlecht) who signed for Oxford for an (small) undisclosed fee. The later move to Leeds netted WBA a six figure sell-on windfall.
Yes, I know they could/should have gone for more, but £3M is not insignificant when weighing up academy finances
when they started the academy they said it would take 10 years to see the results. They claimed Berahino as one of the first successes of having the full benefit but there were a few before him who made us some money.
The academy output has been pretty decent and even with a lot of disappoint around players not sticking around here, it will be in substantial profit
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Winning 1-0 at Villa, Clayton-PHillips. No Louie Barry for Villa, surprise surprise.
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Winning 1-0 at Villa, Clayton-PHillips. No Louie Barry for Villa, surprise surprise.
Barry on England duty apparently
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Barry on England duty apparently
Fair enough, well he will be glad he is because it's FT and 1-0 to us.
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We won 0-1 ;D
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We won 0-1 ;D
Great stuff lads,wouldn't it be great if we could swap places with them at first team level. Only needs an injury or two for Grealish, and they are dead in the water.
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I read that their lad Keenan something came off crocked after a run in with brunty 8)
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Taken off as a precaution apparently.
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The highlights are on the Albion websight. Their are some twists & turns to the game
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The highlights are on the Albion websight. Their are some twists & turns to the game
Just as well we won as they'd probably have been on the pitch again otherwise. Meanwhile a DVD of our epic win will be available from the club super store and Merry Hill in time for Easter. Possibly.......
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Diaby has scored twice in first 25 mins today
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Diaby has scored twice in first 25 mins today
3 goals in 3 games, decent return for a winger with no game time in 8 months.
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Finished with hat trick in 3-0 win ;D
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Albion lead 0-1 at Swansea in tonight’s Under 23s match with a goal from George Harmon. 69 minutes played. The game is live, I’ve just discovered on Swansea’s Facebook page
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Watching it now, thanks for the heads up!
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Whos the big lad, our number 10.
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Axham White (spell?) sent off for a dangerous tackle
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Yeah that was a bit wild, no malice but made it easy for ref to sned him off.
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FT: 0-1
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We have a whole host of lads who need loans next year to see whether they will make the grade we need or If they will fund the academy for a few years. Following need to go out:
Palmer has played 36 games for Plymouth in league 2 and got 13 clean sheets this year. Who are currently well in contention for automatic promotion. I'm sure they would happily have him at league 1. If not somebody else in league one 1 may take a punt on him
Callum morton has 5 goals in 8 games for northampton who are in the play offs in league only 7 points of automatic promotion. He may also be worth a loan to league one next year.
Fitzwater make or break season for him I guess. He has been retained for cover here. He needs a loan to a championship side to see if he can make the grade. Hes done ok with walsall in league 1 on a couple of occasions.
Kane Wilson has been a part player for tranmere another one who probably needs a full season in league one. For somebody only just about to turn 20 hes had some terrible look with injuries.
Sam field hasnt looked out of place on either divison with wba however he hasnt set the world a light either. He is somebody else who needs 40+ games in championship next year.
Leko looked as if he wouldn't get near even championship grade. He was a new player at charlton under Bowyer and if that option is available again next year we should utilise it.
Harper got a lot of game time under Darren Moore but been nowhere near the team this year. Another one who appears as if he could make a half decent player needs a championship season somewhere.
Edward's for me is one of the most interesting ones for me as he is a late developer he didn't set the world a light in league 2 with Exeter but has really come on to the scene this year. He needs tying down and getting 30-40 games in championship also.
Oshea possibly the best of our prospects. Not sure whether we can get away with him playing full back if we got promoted, neither do I see it as benefital for him or club being reserve here full season at championship again useful.
Failure to get all of these out summer and the dof wants shooting. I haven't included Ferguson who is obviously going and also tulloch who may also be off. Obviously if he stayed hes another who needs senior football
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I think a lot of them will be in our squad next year no matter which division we're in.
Thanks to an over-inflated transfer market, and the 'home grown' rule, it's getting increasingly difficult to make transfers at the highest levels. The last few windows have seen lots of clubs add maybe one or two, but fairly few go down the route of massive overhauls anymore.
As people ask for higher fees and higher wages, clubs are going to become more reliant on bringing through their own talent - this is why big clubs are being very active in trying to poach talented younger players, so that they can get them fairly cheaply before they have to pay through the nose for them.
We've had a good few years of silly transfers. As the market inflates and FFP bites, clubs are going to be more reliant on their academies than ever.
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Failure to get all of these out summer and the dof wants shooting. I haven't included Ferguson who is obviously going and also tulloch who may also be off. Obviously if he stayed hes another who needs senior football
Loans do have a role in player development but they are not a panacea and nor are they an alternative to making a decision about a player's future at the club. Clearing pathways in the squad is as important if player comes back from a successful loan spell and still finds themselves 4th or 5th choice then really what is the point?
The decision making process is as follows
a) Does the player have the skill set and physical attributes to fit into a specific position in Bilic's current set up?
If no. Can we develop those skill sets and attributes in one to two years? If the answer to that is no then we let the player go. If the answer to that is yes then consider a loan move.
If the answer to a) is yes then then
b) Is the player sufficiently developed to be back up option in squad for their specific position? If the answer to that is yes. Then is there a gap in the squad? If the answer is yes they go into the squad.
If the answer is no then can we clear out those squad players in front him? If the answer to that is yes then he goes into the squad. Otherwise we consider a loan until the point that the pathway is unblocked.
If the answer is no then is player likely to develop sufficiently to be able to occupy the back up position on the squad either in the next few seasons or no latter than their 23rd birthday? If the answer to that is yes then consider a loan otherwise let the player go.
The loans themselves need to be considered carefully. Wherever possible they need to join a club where they are likely to be first choice. Equally there is very little point to loaning a player to a team who on the face of it play in a manner that is completely alien to the way Bilic plays. So for instance a loan to Cardiff City under Neil Harris might be less worthwhile than a loan to Oxford United under Karl Robinson.
In general I would favour shorter loan periods. There are two reasons for this firstly at League 1 and 2 level players can get away with things they can't further up the leagues. Ideally young players need enough playing time to pick up useful experience but not long to pick bad habits. Secondly particularly for those players who are close to the first team January might give the club the opportunity to move a senior player on thereby freeing up a place on the squad.
In addition you have to overlay a players contract position with us and their fitness.
Looking at the young players listed in the earlier post.
Palmer As a goal keeper I wouldn't apply the rules to him as rigidly as an outfield player. Even if he were good enough to be a back up option he might be better served going out to a League 1 club. Personally I wouldn't send him back to Plymouth because I don't want him to start thinking of himself as a Plymouth player. However he is 23 and out of contract this might be the point where we just let him go.
Morton 20 Currently playing as a second striker for Northampton, this is not a position which exists in Bilicball. Either he develops into a lone striker or a wide forward or he goes I have no idea whether he can or not.
Fitzwater 22 out of contract difficult to see him as a back up option even in the Championship getting to the point where a decision needs to be made.
Wilson 19 Not had the best of times on loan at Tranmere someway short of being back up as a Right Back seen first Ferguson and now O'Shea move ahead of him. Still got a bit of time on his side but I think release is more likely than loan.
Field 21 He has made 40 senior appearances for us and it is time to make up our mind about him. My view is he is natural back up option to Sawyers in the deep sitting playmaker role. He either gets that or he moves on. Obviously he is injured at the moment and he needs to recover before anything can happen.
Harper 19 He has time on his side and I think he can play as one of the 8's in a 4-3-3 I also think he might be okay as a 10. He does need to be more assertive in either role and not drift in and out of games. He certainly has the talent Is he good enough as a back up? Certainly in the Championship less so in the Premier League. The right loan might be beneficial.
Leko 20 Unfortunately recovering from an ACL. Would fit the wide left attacker in a 4-3-3 Certainly good enough to be back up in the Championship even potentially first choice and again less so in the Premier League. Yet here is the ultimate in blocked pathways the current roster of Right Footed wide players is as follows
Robinson (on loan) Phillips, Grosicki, Edwards (see below) and the returning Burke.
Contracted to 2021 I doubt he will sign a new deal unless there is a chance that he get's to be a least 2nd choice.
Edwards 22, out of contract at the end of the season but with one year option in favour of the club. For the first half of the season de facto 2nd choice to Phillips. Has shown his undoubted potential in short bursts in games but not for a full 90. When Bilic lost faith in Phillips he recruited not one but two direct replacements. Overall not sure where this leaves Edwards. I doubt whether both him and Leko can make it under the current regime and unless we unload a few then neither will.
O'Shea 20 think he will get to be defensive cover next season regardless of the division we are in might even be first choice right back.
The churn of young players is inevitable and the first block to the next generation of players from the academy are those 19 to 23 year olds hanging about the place in limbo. I am sure we will regret letting some of the players we will release in the next couple of years but at some point you have to make a decision.
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Exclusive: Senior figure has quit West Brom
???????????
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-steve-hopcroft-academy-17921512
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Exclusive: Senior figure has quit West Brom
???????????
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-steve-hopcroft-academy-17921512
Would the last person to leave the academy be kind enough to turn off the lights on the way out please :-X ?
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Suspect the plan for further segregation of the academy from the 1st team has not gone down too well!
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Wonder if its Villa again , done a lot of good work for the Albion.
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Wonder if its Villa again , done a lot of good work for the Albion.
Yup https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-aston-villa-planning-another-17922817 (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/exclusive-aston-villa-planning-another-17922817)
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Wonder if its Villa again , done a lot of good work for the Albion.
He once turned down Man Utd to stay with us, so something major here.Does smell of Harrison and the Villa though.
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This is beginning to more than extract the urine.
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They clearly have no interest in what Paul Dowling is doing.
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He once turned down Man Utd to stay with us, so something major here.Does smell of Harrison and the Villa though.
From memory he left for Villa once before and came back within a week.
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Quite clearly, they are doing very well with the other agents they have recruited from us :D
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Something does seem wrong at this level of the club, as Hopcroft is just the latest of a string of key staff we've lost. If he's in the middle of a contract, would he be in breach, and if so could we demand compensation from a new employer? If its Villa again tapping up our Academy staff, that's reason enough to hope they get relegated.
I suppose it would be proof our Academy is one of the top ones in the country. Its vital that Dowling and the management gives it the attention it needs.
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I'm quick to jump on Jenkins and Dowling but the changes they've made to the academy seem sensible to me, if these people don't like it, then good riddance. They've not provided a Jude Bellingham in 15 years.
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U23’s goalkeeper Brad house has announced his departure from West Brom on Twitter.
Makes sense as he was behind Palmer and Griffiths plus potentially Cann and at 22 he needs to be making waves for a first team opportunity soon.
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U23’s goalkeeper Brad house has announced his departure from West Brom on Twitter.
Makes sense as he was behind Palmer and Griffiths plus potentially Cann and at 22 he needs to be making waves for a first team opportunity soon.
I was talking to a relative of his just after Christmas and he knew then that he would not get a contract, shows that what we perceive as news is often known by the relevent parties long before, in this case, as it should be so that he can look for a new club.
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Jimmy Mozza confirmed as assistant manager. Delighted for him.
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Great news for jimmy, well pleased.
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Awesome! Will be great to see him progress at the club as well as Brunty
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Looks like Tulloch may sign a new deal after all, with Fitzwater expected to be released at the end of the season. Story from the Athletic; https://theathletic.co.uk/1859826/2020/06/09/rayhaan-tulloch-west-brom-contract-bilic/
Rayhaan Tulloch will be in West Bromwich Albion’s squad for the final nine games of the Championship season amid increasing optimism that he will commit his future to the club.
The teenage winger, one of the most highly-rated players to emerge from The Hawthorns academy in recent years, has returned to training with Slaven Bilic’s first team ahead of the proposed restart of the Championship season on June 20.
And the 19-year-old is now expected to sign a long-term contract at Albion, having appeared likely earlier in the season to leave as a free agent as the parties struggled to find common ground in negotiations.
Intriguingly, young centre-back Jack Fitzwater is also among the group training at the club’s Walsall training ground despite being almost certain to be released at the end of the season.
The 22-year-old will provide cover for regular centre-backs Semi Ajayi, Ahmed Hegazi and Kyle Bartley, although it is likely that Dara O’Shea and Darnell Furlong, who have operated at right-back this season, would be preferred to Fitzwater at centre-back initially should Albion suffer an injury crisis.
Fitzwater, who has spent three separate spells on loan with Walsall in League One, is almost certain to be released at the end of the campaign but, with centre-back the one area of his squad where Bilic is short of cover, Fitzwater could yet get the chance to impress scouts as Albion attempt to clinch promotion to the Premier League.
The academy graduate performed well in the FA Cup victory at Charlton in January but has yet to make a league appearance for Albion.
Tulloch, meanwhile, seemed certain to leave before football shut down in March. Discussions over a new contract had stalled with clubs in England and Scotland, including Rangers and Aston Villa, expressing an interest.
Albion had concluded that the player’s wage demands were too high to justify a professional contract. However, the likely changed face of football after the coronavirus shutdown combined with productive talks during lockdown means a deal is now virtually completed and Tulloch could yet play a part in the hectic end-of-season schedule of nine behind-closed doors matches in four and a half weeks.
The winger will find himself behind Matheus Pereira, Callum Robinson, Matt Phillips, Grady Diangana, Kamil Grosicki and potentially Kyle Edwards in the scramble for places but, with all clubs expecting a higher-than-normal rate of muscle injuries due to the lengthy lay-off and shortened ‘pre-season’ schedule, Tulloch could yet come into Bilic’s thinking.
Tulloch has impressed observers with his displays for Albion’s under-23s and, once he has signed a long-term deal at The Hawthorns, can be expected to play an increasing role in Albion’s future plans.
If the club are promoted to the Premier League for next season, Tulloch could be loaned to a club in the Championship or League One depending how the EFL landscape appears in a post-COVID world.
Two more players whose contracts expire this summer are also expected to figure for Bilic’s side in the remainder of the season. Long-serving captain Chris Brunt has already confirmed he intends to play on until the end of the season despite announcing he will leave Albion this summer.
Gareth Barry, whose deal is set to expire on June 30, has returned to training and is also expected to agree a short-term extension to complete the season. The contractual situation regarding Nathan Ferguson is less clear with the defender having made clear his desire to leave Albion when his deal expires.
However, the point is likely to be moot given Ferguson’s rehabilitation from knee surgery is expected to last into the late summer. He is expected to start next season at Crystal Palace, whether he joins them on July 1 or remains technically an Albion player until the new end date for the 2019-20 season.
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Interesting read, cheers Floydy 8) .
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Very interesting read and maybe a small sign of common sense, a commodity rarely seen in football, may be coming into play now. I wonder why??
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Alex palmer has helped Plymouth get promoted and by all accounts had a very good season. On one hand, number 2 here probably isn’t unobtainable next season, but on the other he I’m sure he’d benefit more from continuing to play regularly.
On the Nathan Ferguson side, I can’t imagine palace will be willing to pay what they were. Turning down 20k a week here on a 5 year deal may well be a gamble that’s not quite paying off as he had hoped.
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Ferguson will still get a good deal at Palace. The lack of a decent transfer fee will see to that. They will get him for peanuts.
Glad that Tulloch is signing on, although he has been badly mismanaged.
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Ferguson will still get a good deal at Palace. The lack of a decent transfer fee will see to that. They will get him for peanuts.
Glad that Tulloch is signing on, although he has been badly mismanaged.
Tribunal will get us a fee based on the contract we've offered so will be millions. Not convinced this will go ahead now. Maybe a Barry esque move abroad would circumvent the fee.
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Albion have announced the retained list today:
Jack Fitzwater and Kane Wilson are gone, along with Nathan Ferguson. also released are Jack Chambers, Kevin Healy, Brad House, Dan Meredith, Sam Wilding, Eoin Ashton, Stanley Asomugha, Pablo Martinez, Yusuff Ojebode, Peter Taylor, Carrick Hill, Lewis Smith, Jacob Wakeling, Remarl Williams.
good luck with all your future endeavours
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new deals on offer: Finn Azaz, Nick Clayton-Phillips, George Harmon, Alex Palmer, Tom Solanke and Rayhaan Tulloch.
year 3 scholarships offered: Zak Brown, Ted Cann, Tyrese Dyce, Thomas Sharpe, Aksum White
year 2 scholarships offered: Zak Delaney, Taylor Gardner-Hickman, Alex Gilbert, Toby King, Finley Thorndike, Harry Williams
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Albion have announced the retained list today:
Jack Fitzwater and Kane Wilson are gone, along with Nathan Ferguson. also released are Jack Chambers, Kevin Healy, Brad House, Dan Meredith, Sam Wilding, Eoin Ashton, Stanley Asomugha, Pablo Martinez, Yusuff Ojebode, Peter Taylor, Carrick Hill, Lewis Smith, Jacob Wakeling, Remarl Williams.
good luck with all your future endeavours
The only one I'm a bit disappointed about is Meredith. He impressed me when I saw him in the U23's. The rest were predictable.
Good to see Finn Azaz offered a new deal he's useful, Toby King another kid I liked the look of given terms as well.
As for Ferguson - good riddance!
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Rayhaan Tulloch inks new 5 year deal.
Good lad.
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Rayhaan Tulloch inks new 5 year deal.
Good lad.
That we will make him 24 years old when it runs out. Hopefully, there is a 12 month extension in our favour or we renegotiate well in advance of the end of his contract if he shows signs of making the grade, otherwise he could go for a song if he'll be 24, I think!
ps but great news for all concerned
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That's fantastic news! They must rate him!
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E&S reporting a four year contract rather than five. Does anyone know the true length? Maybe 4 years + 1 in our favour? Either way, happy with this, as he seems to be a very good prospect from all reports.
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E&S reporting a four year contract rather than five. Does anyone know the true length? Maybe 4 years + 1 in our favour? Either way, happy with this, as he seems to be a very good prospect from all reports.
My bad (wishful) thinking it's still 2019.
It is indeed until 2024.
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Good news and a bit of a turnaround on the part of the player who was reported not to be minded to re-sign. It is now important to push his development and I am guessing that's a loan at this stage.
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I’m a little surprised by the length of the deal. Wonder if we will see him at all this season now his contract is sorted.
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Really chuffed Rayhaan's signed the deal. Saw him play for England U18s at Walsall a couple of years ago and for the U23s a few times since. From the interview attached he seems very level headed. Looking to maybe go out on loan next season with a view to making the first team in a couple of season's time. No big time Charlie on display. Good news all round and if he can make an impression with the first earlier then all the better.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2020/july/inspired-tulloch-thrilled-to-pen-new-deal/
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Yes, excellent news about Tulloch. Good to see promising, especially local, players from the Academy signing up longer term. They must be getting the right signals with the breakthrough into first team of OShea, Harper and Edwards.
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Very pleased with this as rate him highly based on a few performances I have seen.
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Big season for the youth lads
Leko Edward's field harper all need a season long loan move to championship for a few of them it could be make or break.
Palmer also needs another loan if Plymouth will have him back that is good for all parties same if Northampton want morton.
Tulloch needs to go to league 2 and play mens football.
We may need a few of these the season after this one if we find ourselves back in the championship...
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"Joe Chapman
@ChapmanJ92
·
44m
Understand that Rico Richards has signed his first professional contract with Albion. Big coup for the club, and for academy manager Rich Stevens, especially after the loss of Barry and Rogers. Expect confirmation later today. #wba"
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Great news if true. This lad looks a real talent.
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Great news if true. This lad looks a real talent.
On the official twitter now. In the bag.
Very happy to see this. Dara et al coming through can only be a positive for these things
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Producing good players through the academy doesn’t seem to be a problem for us,hanging on to them certainly does ! Just need to keep Harrison away from this lad now !
Interestingly Madeley reporting people close to the club had expressed the opinion during the season they expected both he and Tulloch to leave when their contracts were up so credit the club and possibly a Bilic factor
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Brum Mail article said fought off Man Utd etc and our old boys at Villa of course. Is he that good? Has anyone seen him play?
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Brum Mail article said fought off Man Utd etc and our old boys at Villa of course. Is he that good? Has anyone seen him play?
I know a couple people who work within the club and a lot of academy staff have said he’s the best player the academy has produced and could go on to be a star.
A lot of people within the club thought he may move on a couple of months ago so it’s a big coup that they’ve tied him down.
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Will be interesting to see what happens to him this season and the next. I am generally in favour of loaning out young prospects, but at 16, with their body still developing, sometimes its easier to keep them close for another year, maybe giving them a taste of first team training, or maybe the bench in cup games. Then when he's another year or two older he can go out on loan if his path to the first team isn't open.
Just from a quick youtube highlights compilation of a couple of games, he seems tenacious and has good work-rate. Seems very left-foot dominant - hopefully that's something he can develop.
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Sometimes you have to take a chance too. Like Blues did with Bellingham.
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Here's hoping Jovan Malcolm commits to us as well.
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I know a couple people who work within the club and a lot of academy staff have said he’s the best player the academy has produced and could go on to be a star.
A lot of people within the club thought he may move on a couple of months ago so it’s a big coup that they’ve tied him down.
Thanks for the info mate. Certainly sounds promising. I'll be keeping an eye on him when he goes out on loan I assume.
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Article up on the Athletic about him.
Said he was poached from Blues at 7 years old, born and raised in West Brom. Obviously highly regarded within. First came to the attention of thre first team squad when he played amongst them in a XI vXI training game in Jan. Played alongside Austin up front who along with Brunt said he's going to be a star.
Told WBA he wants to play in the Champions League (in time) but wants to be one of the youngest players ever to break into WBA's first team. Says he plays out wide but loves to cut inside to a more central attacking position.
A little section on Tulloch as well says hes a more traditional style winger.
Both involved in First team training but Rico coming back from injury won't be pushed into regular PL appearences or a loan. Tulloch may be sent out on loan.
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I've only seen snippets online but Rico Richards really does look to be a talent. Very chuffed he's committed to us. Looking forward to him progressing to the first team squad.
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The line where Gazberg says “he wants to be the youngest player to break into our first team†was music to my ears. Such a refreshing attitude whilst holding ambitions for further in his career.
I really hope we do not stall his development. Let’s get the lad out, playing on loan and continue his development.
If he’s as good as some are saying - there should be the opportunity to make some £££ on his sale.
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Following Jenkins article I thought about championship side finances or lack of. Many will want new players on cheap so may well covet our younger players on loan.
Sheffield Wednesday in dire need of reinforcements. Mid table sides like Blackburn preston huddersfield milwall swansea will want some extra to give them a outside shot at playoffs. The newly promoted sides need players to give them best chance at staying in league and Barnsley luton birmingham will want to again push on.
We should be looking to get leko Edwards field and harper out for the season. Also we have a chance to offer somebody a loan to buy option on burke and hope for best
Only
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Following Jenkins article I thought about championship side finances or lack of. Many will want new players on cheap so may well covet our younger players on loan.
Sheffield Wednesday in dire need of reinforcements. Mid table sides like Blackburn preston huddersfield milwall swansea will want some extra to give them a outside shot at playoffs. The newly promoted sides need players to give them best chance at staying in league and Barnsley luton birmingham will want to again push on.
We should be looking to get leko Edwards field and harper out for the season. Also we have a chance to offer somebody a loan to buy option on burke and hope for best
Only
I think Edwards and Harper will be staying to fight it out for a 1st team spot. If we were to loan out all the players you've listed, with Brunt and Barry gone, we would only have Livermore and Sawyers left as central midfield players and I can't see us signing 3 new ones (we also know that if Livermore and Sawyers are playing regularly they'll be getting suspended at some stage !). There is always this tricky balance between loaning players out to give them games and making sure we have sufficient squad depth at the club.
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Good article on The Athletic about Rico Richards and Rayhaan Tulloch. Going through who they are as players and some background.
https://theathletic.com/1973809/2020/08/05/who-is-rico-richards-rayhaan-tulloch-new-contract-west-brom-albion?source=user-shared-article
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Good article on The Athletic about Rico Richards and Rayhaan Tulloch. Going through who they are as players and some background.
https://theathletic.com/1973809/2020/08/05/who-is-rico-richards-rayhaan-tulloch-new-contract-west-brom-albion?source=user-shared-article
Cheers very much but there's a pay wall, never mind.
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I did a quick summary of the article a fews ago in this thread if anyone is interested.
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It may have already been posted but Finn Azaz and Josh Griffiths has both gone on loan to Cheltenham.
Azaz is 20 in a few weeks so probably needs to make an impact at that level but Griffiths is still very young for a goalkeeper so it will be interesting to see how much game time he gets.
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The Cheltenham number one is injured for the start of the season at least so Griffiths should be starting at the start of the season. Massive opportunity for the lad.
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Nixon on Twitter
"West Brom. Likely to send striker Morton out to Lincoln. Appleton links working there. Again."
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Lost 1-0 to Blues
https://www.bcfc.com/news/articles/2020/report-west-bromwich-albion-under-23s-0-blues-under-23s-1/
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Alex Palmer wins the fans League 2 player of the year. Decent accolade.
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2-2 v Northampton
https://www.ntfc.co.uk/news/20202/august/wba_u23s_250820/
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Callum Morton signing a new 4 year deal according to Steve Madeley, off out on loan somewhere next for the season
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Followed the Gloucestershire media's online "minute by minute" style coverage of Cheltenham vs Cardiff today.
Finn Azaz once again started and while Cheltenham struggled, it does seem he is set for a starting role this season. He turns 20 next week so as an attacking midfielder it is a bit if a make if break season for him in terms of having a future with us, but he will be an interesting one to follow in league 2.
More interestingly, Josh Griffiths seems to be setting his stall out early. He was mentioned in the pre game talk from his previous outings and at half time and full time for his impact in keeping the score down with 2 great saves.
At 18, if he has a great season on loan in league 2 then a number of clubs will be interested in someone who might be the next top English keeper. Hope we have him tied down to avoid the likes of Harrison's Villa tapping him up. Him and Palmer are two to watch this season.
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Followed the Gloucestershire media's online "minute by minute" style coverage of Cheltenham vs Cardiff today.
Finn Azaz once again started and while Cheltenham struggled, it does seem he is set for a starting role this season. He turns 20 next week so as an attacking midfielder it is a bit if a make if break season for him in terms of having a future with us, but he will be an interesting one to follow in league 2.
More interestingly, Josh Griffiths seems to be setting his stall out early. He was mentioned in the pre game talk from his previous outings and at half time and full time for his impact in keeping the score down with 2 great saves.
At 18, if he has a great season on loan in league 2 then a number of clubs will be interested in someone who might be the next top English keeper. Hope we have him tied down to avoid the likes of Harrison's Villa tapping him up. Him and Palmer are two to watch this season.
Griffiths signed a 4 year deal last year. From reports Dwight Gayle and Charlie Austin both rate him pretty highly.
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Palmer and Morton are both off to Lincoln
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Palmer and Morton are both off to Lincoln
Not impressed. Morton should've been gradually integrated into the squad and Palmer should be sold on if not considered good enough.
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Not impressed. Morton should've been gradually integrated into the squad and Palmer should be sold on if not considered good enough.
From what I read they had loan offers from championship clubs but not guaranteed to start every game so ssnr to L1 instead.
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Not impressed. Morton should've been gradually integrated into the squad and Palmer should be sold on if not considered good enough.
Disagree. The best way for them to develop is to play games. Morton can learn loads on the pitch playing games rather than training with the first team but not making any squads.
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Good move for Morton and Palmer to enhance their development after successful loan spell last season.
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If we can get tulloch out to league 2 also this window we would have done a blinder with youth.
Think if we get diangana and grant through you might see Edwards go out on loan too.
Think harper needs first team football as well
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If we can get tulloch out to league 2 also this window we would have done a blinder with youth.
Think if we get diangana and grant through you might see Edwards go out on loan too.
Think harper needs first team football as well
Tulloch is nearly 20 and has just signed a 4 year deal so I’d expect they’d want him in league 1 minimum if he was to go out.
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Tulloch is nearly 20 and has just signed a 4 year deal so I’d expect they’d want him in league 1 minimum if he was to go out.
Agree, Tulloch at this stage needs to be going to League 1. Would be good to get him to a club like Peterborough.
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Agree, Tulloch at this stage needs to be going to League 1. Would be good to get him to a club like Peterborough.
Jamie Soule also. Highly rated but game times are urgently needed.
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If we can get tulloch out to league 2 also this window we would have done a blinder with youth.
Think if we get diangana and grant through you might see Edwards go out on loan too.
Think harper needs first team football as well
Agreed. Edwards and Harper are both potentially massive talents, but won’t be realised getting the odd cup game with us. Unless there’s been a step change in pre season then going on loan with a route for us to recall would be ideal.
For Harper I’m not sure our midfield is strong enough yet to allow us to let him go just yet though.
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Jamie Soule also. Highly rated but game times are urgently needed.
Soule is gettinf some game time this pre season which is good, but I think he needs a league 2 loan to start with as i'm not convinced he is physical enough.
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Cheltenham Town beat league 1 Peterborough today, with young keeper Griffiths getting a clean sheet and man of the match on some reports. He looks a star.
Finn Azaz also got 90 minutes behind the strikers.
Positive start.
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Cheltenham Town beat league 1 Peterborough today, with young keeper Griffiths getting a clean sheet and man of the match on some reports. He looks a star.
Finn Azaz also got 90 minutes behind the strikers.
Positive start.
Palmer started in a 2-1 Lincoln win, Morton introduced as an 81st minute sub.
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For those interested (and I know a lot of people boycott the competition), the under 23 side have their first competetive game of the season on Tuesday as they travel to Swindon Town in the EFL trophy (7 pm kick off).
With a fair few players out on loan, it will likely be a very inexperienced team, but players like Tulloch, Soule and maybe even Sam Field might be involved alongside players like Rico Richards and Nick Clayton-Phillips.
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Free stream of tonights U23 game KO at 7pm
https://www.swindontownfc.co.uk/matches/fixtures/first-team/202021/september/swindon-town-vs-west-bromwich-albion-u21-on-08-sep-20/
Very young/inexperienced team indeed.
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Very young team. None of the fringe players involved.
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Commentary at
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08pl5d6
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1-0 up - Dyce
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Commentary at
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08pl5d6
BBC have pulled the plug on the commentary after about 40 mins. ☹ï¸
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1-0 baggies HT
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2-0 up now ;D
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1-2 bout 15 mins to go >:(
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3-2 baggies
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Windsor and Gardner-Hickman with the second half goals. Impressive win.
Griffiths gets a clean sheet for Cheltenham. The boys going to be good.
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Highlights at
https://youtu.be/dMMNuMLtERc
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What happened to that french striker we had?
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What happened to that french striker we had?
I think his contract was only until June 2020, so I'm assuming we released him. He's not listed in the first team squad or PL2 squad on the O/S.
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Cheikh Diaby is still with us, there was a uefa issue meaning he couldn’t play for us until January. Scored a hattrick in one of the games and looked very promising but then Covid hit so it’s been a bit stop start for him.
Expecting him to make an impact for the u23s this season
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Cheikh Diaby is still with us, there was a uefa issue meaning he couldn’t play for us until January. Scored a hattrick in one of the games and looked very promising but then Covid hit so it’s been a bit stop start for him.
Expecting him to make an impact for the u23s this season
He's not listed in any of the squad's though.
https://www.wba.co.uk/players/1105
https://www.wba.co.uk/players/1053
He's not mentioned at all in the retained list info from June:
www.wba.co.uk/news/2020/june/albion-announce-retained-list
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Posted a photo on his instagram yesterday of him back in training.
Not sure why he isnt listed on the site but he's still got another year on his contract.
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20 year old strikers (and midfielders for that matter) should be playing first team football.
I can understand Defenders and Keepers maybe needing a little longer, because their positions are less forgiving but I dont expect too many strikers or midfielders who spend a significant period of their careers in the championship or above haven't made 30 first team appearances by the age of 21.
Callum Morton will probably hit around 30 by then. Unless Diaby goes out on loan (or the club have miraculous kept quiet a gem who is closer to the first team than we think) he will possibly hit 21 years of age without any senior appearance at any level as far as I can tell.
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Posted a photo on his instagram yesterday of him back in training.
Not sure why he isnt listed on the site but he's still got another year on his contract.
Cheers for that, I hoped we'd take up the extra year option on his contract to have a proper look at him.
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The defending was very suspect, but I liked Windsor's determination for his goal and for how he set up the second.
As for Diaby, strange that he still doesn't feature in thr club website. I have found for years however that the website is awful for capturing our youth team. It might be a deliberate thing, but we never keep it updated so even now in September there is no detail of the new under 18's and it doesn't have an updated list of under 23's either.
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Yeah i thikn we took up the option on his contract because he was at the Swindon game last night, he put a short clip up on his Insta about it.
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Diaby, that's the one! He looked decent. You've got to wonder if these young players are any good if they aren't considered to dislodge any of our current crop or be alongside Austin.
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Clayton-Phillips goes back for Moors
Edited to remove block caps
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CLAYTON-PHILLIPS GOES BACK FOR MOORS
Time travelling to visit the muslim population of Spain/Portugal or just a loan spell in Solihull?
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Time travelling to visit the muslim population of Spain/Portugal or just a loan spell in Solihull?
Always feel a little uneasy commenting negatively on these kids but NCP is 21 in a few weeks apparently and is going on loan to none league. Sounds like one who has a real fight on his hands just to make it as a pro unfortunately, let alone make it to our level.
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Always feel a little uneasy commenting negatively on these kids but NCP is 21 in a few weeks apparently and is going on loan to none league. Sounds like one who has a real fight on his hands just to make it as a pro unfortunately, let alone make it to our level.
I was thinking this, then I noticed Solihull's manager was Jimmy Shan. Given that we've now loaned players to Darren Moore, Michael Appleton, and Shan, it might just be looking after our old boys.
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Clayton-Phillips goes back for Moors
Edited to remove block caps
While I obviously wish Nick all of the very best with his loan I must admit I'm a little disappointed with this. Thought we'd be looking to get him game time in League Two at the very least. Technically good, well balanced and he's got a good eye for a through ball. Still, if he can get regular first team game time into his legs it'll still be better for his overall development than extra passing practice in the U23s.
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He is probably unlikely to break through now here, despite him looking fairly classy in the last 2 pre seasons, but a non league loan move for 6 months gives him a chance to show what he can do in an easier environment. If he is a big success, he could go to league 2 for the second half of the season and slowly work his way up.
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Our under 18's lost 5-1 earlier today vs Norwich. Doesn't always mean a huge amount, plus Norwich are a very good academy side, but I hope it isn't a sign of things to come.
Norwich played their second year scholars, while looking at our side, it seems to be a mix of 1st years and 2nd years.
Rico Richards scored our only goal.
West Brom XI: Boruc, Ingram, De Sousa (N’Goma, 46), Lamb (Ohaha, 65), Macuisa, Ashworth, Richards, Iroegbunam, Faal (Malcolm, 56), Teixeira, Shepherd
Subs not used: Dwyer, Emery
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Under 23’s playing Villa as we speak (1300 hour KO). Very young side, with so many out on loan and the league cup game on Wednesday.
Bond starts in goal, meaning Button will play on Wednesday. I thought Saul Shotton might have had an outside chance of playing some part on Wednesday but he is in the starting line up so that should rule that out.
No Field or Harper and more interestingly, no Jamie Soule who is probably primed for a place on the Albion bench on Wednesday night.
Cheikh Diaby is in the stands, unsure if he is injured or there is some other reason why he isn’t playing this season.
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1 -0 Baggies H/T . Zak Brown with the goal ;)
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1 -0 Baggies
Come on. Always good to stuff the Vile whatever the level.
Young Toby King is one to keep an eye on I liked the look of him when I saw him play before lockdown. Could make a Championship level player in the future IMO.
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Under 23’s playing Villa as we speak (1300 hour KO). Very young side, with so many out on loan and the league cup game on Wednesday.
Bond starts in goal, meaning Button will play on Wednesday. I thought Saul Shotton might have had an outside chance of playing some part on Wednesday but he is in the starting line up so that should rule that out.
No Field or Harper and more interestingly, no Jamie Soule who is probably primed for a place on the Albion bench on Wednesday night.
Cheikh Diaby is in the stands, unsure if he is injured or there is some other reason why he isn’t playing this season.
maybe he's going to play a part against Harrogate?
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Half time, still 1-0 up. Zak Brown with the goal, following his peach pre season. Tyrese Dyce set the goal up, which follows on from his goal last week vs Swindon, where he captained the side. Brown and Dyce are both 19 and with them being midfielders, are probably coming into a key season now for their development. Both seem to be making a go of it early on this season.
Villa are not looking great according to the Birmingham Mail live feed. Under 23 manager Mark Delaney (remember him) has kept the players out on the pitch for a Phil Brown team talk.
We are reported to look the more organised and in control despite having a number of key men out. Dion Burton and Mozza are our managerial set up, with Burton really getting some good results with the youth teams since he took over. Future Albion manager?
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maybe he's going to play a part against Harrogate?
Doubt it. He hasn’t featured pre season from what I can tell, didn’t play last week vs Swindon Town and is once again in the stands today for this one. I’d say it’s more likely an injury or something to do with paperwork (international clearance maybe?).
Soule has been training with the first team pre season, which makes it more likely that his absence is league cup related.
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Doubt it. He hasn’t featured pre season from what I can tell, didn’t play last week vs Swindon Town and is once again in the stands today for this one. I’d say it’s more likely an injury or something to do with paperwork (international clearance maybe?).
Soule has been training with the first team pre season, which makes it more likely that his absence is league cup related.
think you are right re: Soule.
Diaby is a strange one, he's not on any team list on the O/S. I know there were some issues with paperwork when he signed last season but he did play a few games in (I think) PL2.
As you say maybe it is an injury.
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think you are right re: Soule.
Diaby is a strange one, he's not on any team list on the O/S. I know there were some issues with paperwork when he signed last season but he did play a few games in (I think) PL2.
As you say maybe it is an injury.
He didnt seem to pull up any trees either. Too much hassle for a player obviously not going to make it. Need to let him go.
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Villa have managed a late equaliser. Sounds like they took over a bit second half.
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Villa have managed a late equaliser. Sounds like they took over a bit second half.
Typical. 😡 scummy *******. Every time they get away with it.
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2-1 Albion. Windsor penalty.
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2-1 Albion. Windsor penalty.
Ha ha.
Sorry I really must calm down I know but I never accept not beating that lot.
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3 -1 albion FT
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Windsor does a Vardy. He breaks free, gets upended and scores his second penalty of the game. 3-1 win against Villa’s under 23’s, or as they should be called, Albion academy 2018-19.
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HOw do you watch the game mate?
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3 -1 albion FT
Get in!
pooh on the Villa, pooh on the Villa tonight.
We hate Villa, we hate Villa, we hate Villa, We hate Villa we are the Villa haters!
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Didn’t, you can listen to it online or follow the live feed.
Sounds like Shotton and Windsor impressed, going on what Preece and Chapman have been reporting.
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“We have got to keep on building on the good start we have had to develop our philosophy for this season more."
Hear from Deon Burton ahead of our #PL2 side's clash with @CPFC tomorrow.
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U’23s play Crystal Palace at 2pm, team as below:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eib89BZXsAIssaB?format=jpg&name=small)
Nice to see Diaby still exists.
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Ended 3-3. Thorndike, Windsor and Solanke with the goals.
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Windsor seems to have started the u23 season in rich form.
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The way Windsor is going, it might be worth considering a league 2 or league 1 loan move in January. Seems to be really flying at the moment and causing havoc. A Jamie Vardy type striker from what I’ve seen.
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The way Windsor is going, it might be worth considering a league 2 or league 1 loan move in January. Seems to be really flying at the moment and causing havoc. A Jamie Vardy type striker from what I’ve seen.
He’s either just gone 19, or about to turn 19. Why not get him out now? Send him to Walsall and keep a close eye on him.
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how old is the full back at brighton Lamptey, 17. If they are good enough ...................
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Wasn't Windsor already smashing them in at non league standard at 16?
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how old is the full back at brighton Lamptey, 17. If they are good enough ...................
19.
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19.
Christ how dumb am I ???
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A chance to watch Appy's Baggies (Lincoln City) v Liverpool tomorrow. For for those who can to have a look at Alex Palmer and hopefully report back
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Hope this hammering lincoln have recieved doesnt damage palmer's confidence.
No Morton wasn't he fit? Or is he just in line to play at weekend?
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Hope this hammering lincoln have recieved doesnt damage palmer's confidence.
No Morton wasn't he fit? Or is he just in line to play at weekend?
He had no chance for the 1st 4, made a good save in the build up to the 5th.
Weak low down to his right for the 6th and 7th unfortunately.
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Callum Morton has suffered a potentially long term injury. Unsure on the nature or the duration, but seems it isn’t something picked up on the training field, which is odd.
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Awaiting the results of a scan on his shoulder apparently.
https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/sport/football/callum-morton-injury-lincoln-city-4547239
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Windsor seems to have come on really well in a short space of time, probably a loan in January would be good.
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Just ended. 1-1 against Reading. T Fellows scorer.
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Official WBA twitter gave the goal to Windsor.
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Yeah I think live scores had it wrong - they also had us winning 1-0. Windsor starting to score on a regular basis now. A loan move for him in January perhaps?
In other news, Finn Azaz has been voted Cheltenham Town’s player of the month by their fans, which is great news.
Surprisingly, Saul Shotton has also gone out on loan to Woking. Not sure what to think about that. On the one hand, he was a player who at his age needed a loan move, but with him turning 20 in a few months time and having been a part of the first team pre season, I didn’t quite expect him to go down to the fifth tier and on the fringe of part time football. I hope it is only a short term arrangement and he ends up in league 2 for the second half of the season.
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Shottons back in Jan 1st. Half season loan.
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Finn Azaz has scored again for Cheltenham, who are 2-0 up at half time.
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Finn Azaz has scored again for Cheltenham, who are 2-0 up at half time.
We seem to have some very decent and promising young goal scorers and goalkeepers on our books - 2 areas that we currently need improvement in. Wonder when/if we can expect to see any of them in the first team. Next season maybe?
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I suppose it depends if we go down to the championship or not.
Cheltenham won 2-0 with Griffiths getting another clean sheet. Azaz was once again subbed off just after the hour mark which is a bit of a shame.
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I suppose it depends if we go down to the championship or not.
Cheltenham won 2-0 with Griffiths getting another clean sheet. Azaz was once again subbed off just after the hour mark which is a bit of a shame.
Why is it a shame? It's some schedule down there so if it keeps him fresh and fit to start regularly I'm all for it.
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Why is it a shame? It's some schedule down there so if it keeps him fresh and fit to start regularly I'm all for it.
It's more assumption about what it hints at.
If Azaz is going to have an impact here in the next season or two, he ideally needs to be the best player this season at a league 2 side. Would it be normal to take your best player off every single game with half an hour still to play and the game still hanging in the balance? That is where Azaz is at the moment.
It's not a major thing and he is clearly heading in the right direction, but it would be nice to see him start to get a few more 90 minutes under his belt as it would indicate that he is becoming their key player, rather than being just the handy creative player.
It's a small thing.
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It's more assumption about what it hints at.
If Azaz is going to have an impact here in the next season or two, he ideally needs to be the best player this season at a league 2 side. Would it be normal to take your best player off every single game with half an hour still to play and the game still hanging in the balance? That is where Azaz is at the moment.
It's not a major thing and he is clearly heading in the right direction, but it would be nice to see him start to get a few more 90 minutes under his belt as it would indicate that he is becoming their key player, rather than being just the handy creative player.
It's a small thing.
to be fair, they’ve only played 3 games and he’s been taken off twice when they’ve been 2/3 goals ahead. The only game they weren’t Ahead (the first game against Morcambe) he played the whole match.
I don’t see it as being an indicator of anything, more he’s been taken off and kept fresh because they can.
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to be fair, they’ve only played 3 games and he’s been taken off twice when they’ve been 2/3 goals ahead. The only game they weren’t Ahead (the first game against Morcambe) he played the whole match.
I don’t see it as being an indicator of anything, more he’s been taken off and kept fresh because they can.
6th game of the season in all comps, two sub appearances, twice taken off as a sub around the hour mark. Pre season I followed the Gloucestershire live journalist who also commented he was one of two players going into their final pre season game who hadn’t yet been given a full 90.
It isn’t a major thing, maybe they are just keeping him fresh. I just hope it isn’t a trend. I did only say it was a “bit of a shameâ€.
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Player of the Month - keep it up lad, well done
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Player of the Month - keep it up lad, well done
That would suggest protection rather than being taken off to improve the team
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6th game of the season in all comps, two sub appearances, twice taken off as a sub around the hour mark. Pre season I followed the Gloucestershire live journalist who also commented he was one of two players going into their final pre season game who hadn’t yet been given a full 90.
It isn’t a major thing, maybe they are just keeping him fresh. I just hope it isn’t a trend. I did only say it was a “bit of a shameâ€.
I understand where you are going, but I imagine as a young lad who hasn’t played first team football before it takes a while to get used to the pace and intensity of the senior game, but also how to pace himself.
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Bad news - Callum Morton likely out for 2 months and may need surgery on his shoulder so don't expect to see much of him this side of Christmas. A huge blow as if he had a good campaign this year he could have been in with an outside chance of being one of our rotation strikers next season. Will be a bit tougher for him now.
On a brighter note, Lincoln will replace him by taking Jamie Soule on loan. Surprised Soule has gone to league 1 after only being judged good enough for a national league loan back in Jan, but a chance for him to work with a coach who knows him in Appleton.
That leaves just Rakeem Harper now who we desperately need to go out on loan. If we do get Harper out on loan in the next 2 weeks, it will have been a very good development window for the academy. A rare positive.
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Bad news - Callum Morton likely out for 2 months and may need surgery on his shoulder so don't expect to see much of him this side of Christmas. A huge blow as if he had a good campaign this year he could have been in with an outside chance of being one of our rotation strikers next season. Will be a bit tougher for him now.
On a brighter note, Lincoln will replace him by taking Jamie Soule on loan. Surprised Soule has gone to league 1 after only being judged good enough for a national league loan back in Jan, but a chance for him to work with a coach who knows him in Appleton.
That leaves just Rakeem Harper now who we desperately need to go out on loan. If we do get Harper out on loan in the next 2 weeks, it will have been a very good development window for the academy. A rare positive.
Is there a limit on number of outgoing loans now? I want to say it's eight? Might have dreamt it though
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It is under discussion but i dont think it us enforced yet. Chelsea still have an army out on loan.
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I think there was also an age related caveat as part of the discussion on the number of loans.
Found it....
Fifa has proposed new regulations that would mean clubs could only have eight loan deals per season, both in and out of the club. That would then be reduced to six from 2022-23.
It would apply just to international loans at first, involving players aged 22 or over.
Chelsea currently have 28 players out on loan , with 15 aged 22 or https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/sport/amp/football/51665904
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1900 hours tonight, WBA U21's vs Forest Green in our second group game of the Boycotted cup.
Deon Burton has said they take this competition more seriously than the league and treat it as a result based match rather than just for development.
We beat Swindon Town last time out so it would be a positive if our depleted PL2 side can come away with another win tonight.
Look out for Owen Windsor who has 5 goals already this season. It isn't impossible if his form continues for him to find a way into our first team, particularly if things go wrong in the next week or so.
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Joseph Masi Twitter Account
Young striker Jamie Soule has joined Lincoln on a three month loan. #wba
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1900 hours tonight, WBA U21's vs Forest Green in our second group game of the Boycotted cup.
Deon Burton has said they take this competition more seriously than the league and treat it as a result based match rather than just for development.
We beat Swindon Town last time out so it would be a positive if our depleted PL2 side can come away with another win tonight.
Look out for Owen Windsor who has 5 goals already this season. It isn't impossible if his form continues for him to find a way into our first team, particularly if things go wrong in the next week or so.
Windsor not involved tonight.
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Not just Windsor, but Diaby also not in the squad.
Instead, Jovan Malcolm starts up front with Moudou Faal on the bench.
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Not just Windsor, but Diaby also not in the squad.
Instead, Jovan Malcolm starts up front with Moudou Faal on the bench.
Both strikers? Are they at age group internationals? Or perhaps called up to 1st team duties.
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Both strikers? Are they at age group internationals? Or perhaps called up to 1st team duties.
Bilic going to make a statement by playing a kid?
We are the almost sold Charlie Austins or Kenneth Zohores backside away from having no choice in this anyway
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Both strikers? Are they at age group internationals? Or perhaps called up to 1st team duties.
I don't think they are in the international fold, but I could be wrong (not impossible Diaby plays under 21 for somebody).
We are 2-0 down after less than 20 minutes anyway.
On the brightside, Soule starts for Lincoln.
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2 down after 20 mins
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Soule scores for Lincoln..
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3 down :(
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FGR were 11/10 to win against a depleted Albion side.... 8)
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Both strikers? Are they at age group internationals? Or perhaps called up to 1st team duties.
Could be 2+2=7, but Windsor wrote on his Twitter "good luck today boys - smash it" showing no signs of disappointment, while his Mom then liked a tweet from a fan who had commented about the benefits of our players going out on loan rather staying in the academy leagues.
Could be nothing, but possible Windsor is going back out on loan until January.
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Owen Windsor is set to become the latest young wba player to leave on loan.
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Heading to Grimsby. Could be a good move for him, not messing around this year.
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Could be 2+2=7, but Windsor wrote on his Twitter "good luck today boys - smash it" showing no signs of disappointment, while his Mom then liked a tweet from a fan who had commented about the benefits of our players going out on loan rather staying in the academy leagues.
Could be nothing, but possible Windsor is going back out on loan until January.
Sounds like the tweet I saw. Which basically praised Windsor and suggested he had benefitted from the decision to go play non-league mens football last year, which he himself had pushed for.
Normally I'd take it with a pinch of salt but the tweet was from the dad of another one of our academy players so it seems credible. Fair play to Windsor. Looks more polished than Morton to me and ill be watching his progress with interest!
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Not sure where else to put this but man, they really do need to proof read articles before they are sent out.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/rico-richards-west-brom-wiki-19066620
And the teenager, a member of Albion's academy since he was seven, has earned a spot in The Guardian’s Next Generation 2020, highlighting 20 of the best young talents at top-flight clubs.
The attacking midfielder, who can also play as a stinker or out wide, was being chased by a host of teams including Manchester United and Midlands rivals Aston Villa.
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Cheikh Diaby lives!!! He was sent home to France early due to COVID and returned late so was a month or two behind. Plan will be to also go on loan when the market reopens in January.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-broms-plan-cheikh-diaby-19135849
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Despite having a ton of players out on loan and none of the wider first team squad under consideration, Deon Burton's U23's have beaten Newcastle 1-0 this afternoon.
Burton keeps getting the results.
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Cheikh Diaby lives!!! He was sent home to France early due to COVID and returned late so was a month or two behind. Plan will be to also go on loan when the market reopens in January.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-broms-plan-cheikh-diaby-19135849
If Diaby has potential they need a him to sign a new contract before he is allowed to go anywhere on loan.
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If Diaby has potential they need a him to sign a new contract before he is allowed to go anywhere on loan.
He didnt even start the game yesterday and that's with Morton, Windsor, Soule all out on loan.
Not sure Diaby is going to be up to much to be honest.
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He didnt even start the game yesterday and that's with Morton, Windsor, Soule all out on loan.
Not sure Diaby is going to be up to much to be honest.
Did you read the article attached by Hunnington Baggie highlighting where Diaby is fitness wise and perhaps explains why he didn't start the game?
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Did you read the article attached by Hunnington Baggie highlighting where Diaby is fitness wise and perhaps explains why he didn't start the game?
No I didn't to be fair.
You usually get a sense of what the club thinks of kids though. I'm not convinced anybody is over excited about Diaby. I might be wrong, I was once, 1983 I think it was. 😜
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No I didn't to be fair.
You usually get a sense of what the club thinks of kids though. I'm not convinced anybody is over excited about Diaby. I might be wrong, I was once, 1983 I think it was. 😜
Here you go.......
'Diaby has a contract until next summer. Cheikh Diaby could be the latest West Brom youngster who leaves the club on loan when the transfer window reopens in January.
The French forward, who plays under Deon Burton in Albion’s under 23s, has been playing catch up at the beginning of this season after returning from his native France where he’d spent lock-down.
Upon returning to the West Midlands, the youngster had to isolate for a fortnight and so his pre-season preparations were shorter than those of his teammates.
Albion have nine young players out on loan at EFL or National League clubs already this season, including Diaby’s fellow forwards Callum Morton, Owen Windsor and Jamie Soule.
He’s expected to feature for the coming months, before a loan move himself is considered in the winter window which opens on January 2.
Albion academy manager Rich Stevens has tipped Diaby to be a success at the club and identified his attributes.
Cheikh took a couple of months to get up to speed because he’d missed a couple of months of football,†Stevens said of Diaby’s Albion arrival last year.
We were just getting him to what we thought was his fighting best, and then lockdown happened. He was one of the first ones we had to send home, we had a minute to make a decision to get them on planes and trains to get them home, because we knew what was coming.
“Cheikh was one of the last to come back in, because of the restrictions in France and the two-week quarantine here.
“He’s just catching up now. He missed pre-season because of those restrictions. He’s a powerful boy, he’s going to score goals, he’s going to give defences a problem because of his physicality.
“He’s got plenty to develop but he’s an interesting one. He could maybe do with a loan, maybe after Christmas, because he could do with getting some exposure somewhere.
“We’ll see where he is at the end of that.'
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Windsor is back up top for Grimsby today.
Seems he may have just been rested midweek. Holloway has said they’ve got 7 loans so sometimes even if someone has played well they might get rested. If Windsor keeps going as he’s started for them I don’t think he will be one of the two to miss out too often.
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Under 23s won again the other day with Diaby netting the only goal. (Hadn't seen it posted).
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With the wheels turning towards the Rooney rule, it has to be a matter of when and not if Deon Burton gets a managers role somewhere.
He oversaw a number of good results before last seasons under 23’s were curtailed and despite Albion’s under 23’s having a heavy focus on development over results and having lost near enough his entire first choice under 23 side to loan moves, Burton’s Albion still keep winning.
The 1-0 was vs table topping Boro. Win our game in hand and we go top of Division 2.
A interesting coach, that’s for sure.
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With the wheels turning towards the Rooney rule, it has to be a matter of when and not if Deon Burton gets a managers role somewhere.
He oversaw a number of good results before last seasons under 23’s were curtailed and despite Albion’s under 23’s having a heavy focus on development over results and having lost near enough his entire first choice under 23 side to loan moves, Burton’s Albion still keep winning.
The 1-0 was vs table topping Boro. Win our game in hand and we go top of Division 2.
A interesting coach, that’s for sure.
I'll tell you something, he's got his manager speak down and dusted. And while there's nothing wrong with being organised and working off the ball, the following after the win over Boro' reads like something from a Tony Pulis presser ;D ......
".......“What pleased me most was the organisation,†said Deon.
“Sam French came in for his debut and did very well and saved a penalty. Mo Faal was up top again playing against one of Boro’s first-team centre-backs - who was the son of Dean Gordon (Nathan Wood) - and he did very well holding the ball up against him.
“They worked really hard at nullifying the threats of Middlesbrough, but what was most pleasing was the team performance as well as the individual ones.
“They were all on it and worked really hard out of possession. But they weren’t better while in possession so we’ve already spoke about it in training and the players want to be better in possession and that’ll be a focus during the week.â€
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/burton-buoyed-after-baggies-topple-league-leaders
....... fair play to both Deon, James and the rest of the lads though.
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With the wheels turning towards the Rooney rule, it has to be a matter of when and not if Deon Burton gets a managers role somewhere.
He oversaw a number of good results before last seasons under 23’s were curtailed and despite Albion’s under 23’s having a heavy focus on development over results and having lost near enough his entire first choice under 23 side to loan moves, Burton’s Albion still keep winning.
The 1-0 was vs table topping Boro. Win our game in hand and we go top of Division 2.
A interesting coach, that’s for sure.
I must say, I had to read in the bold two or three times before the penny dropped.. :D
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I must say, I had to read in the bold two or three times before the penny dropped.. :D
he has to go work at the pirelli stadium at some point, its just written
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West Brom youngster Saul Shotton has committed his future to the club after agreeing a new contract.
More good news.
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I must say, I had to read in the bold two or three times before the penny dropped.. :D
;D ;D i hadn't clocked that when typing it
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Harper, Edwards, Grosiki, Phillips and Austin played for the kids today. Getting some of them fit for Jan exits possibly. Won 3-1 against Sunderland.
2 from Grosiki and 1 from Diaby
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Harper, Edwards, Grosiki, Phillips and Austin played for the kids today. Getting some of them fit for Jan exits possibly. Won 3-1 against Sunderland.
2 from Grosiki and 1 from Diaby
Purely on stats its hard to see what more Grosicki can do to get a game / bench
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Purely on stats its hard to see what more Grosicki can do to get a game / bench
He really should be ahead of Phillips, the man has done nothing for a long time.
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Half the team today are 1st team squad members. Button Peltier Kipre Field Harper Grosicki and Edwards all start. Big Sam is having a good look at them!! Chance for Diaby to impress too with more spotlight than usual on the game.
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Strong looking U23 squad out today Sam Field in the line up ;)
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Strong looking U23 squad out today Sam Field in the line up ;)
Once he's properly fit I want to see Field finally given his head, replacing Sawyers.
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Link if you want to watch.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OljMz9ufTow
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Losing 1 nil
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Losing 1 nil
That line up should not be losing to Stoke reserves. I expect a win come full time at the least.
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That line up should not be losing to Stoke reserves. I expect a win come full time at the least.
Indeed. Live stream gone down now so will have to rely on Twitter.
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Jesus wept. 4 nil down at half time. :-X
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Looking at the line up, it's hard to work out how Stoke's kids are so easily sweeping us aside. It's not far off a league cup 11 here. Awful.
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4-2 15 mins to go . Diaby and Thorndike with the goals. There line up included Shawcross, Allen ,Lindsay and Verlinden amongst others
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4-2 15 mins to go
Diaby and Thorndike the 2 scorers, Diaby has also gone close.
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Lost 4-3. A terrible result really looking at the starting line-up.
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That line up should not be losing to Stoke reserves. I expect a win come full time at the least.
Yet another example whereby fans believe this group of players are better than they are.
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I imagine the whole club is down after losing their leader
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Stolen from another forum:
Just spoke to one of the staff:
Shambolic first half - Button got booked for kicking the ball away after the 3rd (into a pond)
We missed 3 absolute sitters 2nd half - and really should not have lost
Sam Field looks in good physical shape - which makes a nice change for this bunch. He's expected to play a first team part - immediately
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Highlights of the Stoke game have come out, there were 3 penalties which explains the high scoring result. Much like the first team we don’t handle crosses very well, but as half of that defence was senior players it’s not a major surprise.
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Two points on this:
1. Surely it is worth giving some of these guys a go, they can't be any worse?
2. How much of an impact do you think our shocking first team form is having on these guys' morale? My main concern is people like Rico Richards wouldn't have signed had his decision been during this season rather than last
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I think my worry about giving the "youngsters" (I mean, even out first team are "youngsters" to me, but...) a go in the first team is they might get crushed. By expectations. By results. I don't know them obviously, but putting too much on young people can damage them long-term. I think it would have to be handled very carefully.
Of course, they might fly. You just can't tell.
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With our so called fabled academy why are we not getting youngsters through who can cement a first team place in woeful squad. Granted O'Shea has done so this season but where are the others?
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The academy is going to be more important from now on .Clubs won’t be able to sign players U18 years of age. It will be more difficult to sign players from Europe especially for those lower down the food chain . 1 example I’ve seen is that only about 14 players from ligue 2will qualify under new employment rules . Apparently Riyadh Mahrez wouldn’t have been able to sign for Leicester if today’s rules had been in place.
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With our so called fabled academy why are we not getting youngsters through who can cement a first team place in woeful squad. Granted O'Shea has done so this season but where are the others?
out on loan, how many do you want and what position?
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The academies should have been incredibly important for the last 20 years. I can’t help feel that the problem is the FA / premier league refuse to give the clubs the protection they really need to really invest in them
If a kid has with a club for 3 years or more before 15 then they should have to sign their first contract with that club if the club wishes to invoke its right.
If it is invoked, then the money a club is prepared to put on wages should come with a compulsory minimum fee.
I.e if a club chooses to inception the compulsory first 4 year contact....
£500 a week comes with £250,000 release
£1,000 comes with £500,000
£5,000 comes with £5,000,000
£10,000 comes with £10,000,000
£20,000 comes with £20,000,000
Both club and player can negotiate without the above if they both agree, but if a club does want to evoke a player cannot sign elsewhere. It would maybe need some further clauses to protect players further but it could work.
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With our so called fabled academy why are we not getting youngsters through who can cement a first team place in woeful squad. Granted O'Shea has done so this season but where are the others?
For an academy with our level of investment (at the lower end compared to most Cat A academies), our output isn’t too bad.
Chris Wood, Tyler Roberts and Nathan Ferguson all at other premier league clubs, Kemar Roofe playing for Rangers, Berahino and Adil Nabi playing in decent European top flight leagues.
Add to that the likes of Leko, Yan Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Ryan Allsop, Jerome Sinclair and Marcus Forss all attached to championship clubs as well as a number of players in league 1 and league 2.
We have lost our most exciting academy youngsters as a frightening rate before they make their mark on the first team - Louie Barry is being talked about as a first team option for Villa the second half of this season while Morgan Rodgers will likely have a breakthrough on loan next season. Add to them Matt Smith, Dhanda, Sinclair, Brown, Ferguson and Roberts, all taken/sold/requesting to leave after refusing to sign new contracts as teenagers in the space of 6 or 7 years.
Despite that, we have 4 academy graduates in the first team frame this season (O’Shea, Sawyers, Edwards & Field), plus a host of kids out on loan who with any luck will either continue their good form (Palmer, Griffiths, Azaz) or get back to fitness and have big second halves of the season (Morton, Tulloch).
There are question marks over our ability as a “finishing school†as I’d argue players do seem to have ground to a halt after being quite promising at 16, but in the space of a decade we have produced a solid list of academy graduates plying football both domestically and abroad.
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For an academy with our level of investment (at the lower end compared to most Cat A academies), our output isn’t too bad.
Chris Wood, Tyler Roberts and Nathan Ferguson all at other premier league clubs, Kemar Roofe playing for Rangers, Berahino and Adil Nabi playing in decent European top flight leagues.
Add to that the likes of Leko, Yan Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Ryan Allsop, Jerome Sinclair and Marcus Forss all attached to championship clubs as well as a number of players in league 1 and league 2.
We have lost our most exciting academy youngsters as a frightening rate before they make their mark on the first team - Louie Barry is being talked about as a first team option for Villa the second half of this season while Morgan Rodgers will likely have a breakthrough on loan next season. Add to them Matt Smith, Dhanda, Sinclair, Brown, Ferguson and Roberts, all taken/sold/requesting to leave after refusing to sign new contracts as teenagers in the space of 6 or 7 years.
Despite that, we have 4 academy graduates in the first team frame this season (O’Shea, Sawyers, Edwards & Field), plus a host of kids out on loan who with any luck will either continue their good form (Palmer, Griffiths, Azaz) or get back to fitness and have big second halves of the season (Morton, Tulloch).
There are question marks over our ability as a “finishing school†as I’d argue players do seem to have ground to a halt after being quite promising at 16, but in the space of a decade we have produced a solid list of academy graduates plying football both domestically and abroad.
A good assessment. Though it's five in our current squad if you include Harper.
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Excellent post as usual from Baggies.
It is a crying shame however that those responsible for those success stories are now plying their trade at Bodymoor Heath.
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A good assessment Baggies and the key for me is
There are question marks over our ability as a “finishing schoolâ€
This should be a clear part of Dowling's remit and I'm just not sure he gets it judging by how we have used Edwards and Harper in the last two seasons. In Edwards case in particular, he was contributing from the bench at the beginning of last season, Diangana got injured but he rarely got a start and we then signed Grosicki and Robinson. That's where the Director of Football needs to have an honest conversation with the manager and ask whether he will be used more and if the answer is no, explain that he will need loaning to get games and that another young player, perhaps Tulloch, would be the off the bench option.
I know it is tough when you are chasing promotion but we can't always think short term. Edwards could have gone somewhere and been on fire the last 6months of last season and been ready this year. He could have played well and increased his value or he could have not been average which would have given us a guide as to whether we should have sold him in the summer or loaned him again if it was quite clear he needed more time at that level. Now he and us are left in limbo and it is a waste.
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For an academy with our level of investment (at the lower end compared to most Cat A academies), our output isn’t too bad.
Chris Wood, Tyler Roberts and Nathan Ferguson all at other premier league clubs, Kemar Roofe playing for Rangers, Berahino and Adil Nabi playing in decent European top flight leagues.
Add to that the likes of Leko, Yan Dhanda, Izzy Brown, Ryan Allsop, Jerome Sinclair and Marcus Forss all attached to championship clubs as well as a number of players in league 1 and league 2.
We have lost our most exciting academy youngsters as a frightening rate before they make their mark on the first team - Louie Barry is being talked about as a first team option for Villa the second half of this season while Morgan Rodgers will likely have a breakthrough on loan next season. Add to them Matt Smith, Dhanda, Sinclair, Brown, Ferguson and Roberts, all taken/sold/requesting to leave after refusing to sign new contracts as teenagers in the space of 6 or 7 years.
Despite that, we have 4 academy graduates in the first team frame this season (O’Shea, Sawyers, Edwards & Field), plus a host of kids out on loan who with any luck will either continue their good form (Palmer, Griffiths, Azaz) or get back to fitness and have big second halves of the season (Morton, Tulloch).
There are question marks over our ability as a “finishing school†as I’d argue players do seem to have ground to a halt after being quite promising at 16, but in the space of a decade we have produced a solid list of academy graduates plying football both domestically and abroad.
Perfectly put 8)
Our academy has brought through a ton of players....most of which would probably be around our first team now had they signed new contracts rather than leaving for ‘bigger’ clubs.
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Perfectly put 8)
Our academy has brought through a ton of players....most of which would probably be around our first team now had they signed new contracts rather than leaving for ‘bigger’ clubs.
So if the better ones are mostly going to seek out "bigger" clubs that sort of vitiates the purpose of the academy or least makes the returns marginal?
Was Crystal Palace a bigger club to Ferguson or just one paying more money?
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So if the better ones are mostly going to seek out "bigger" clubs that sort of vitiates the purpose of the academy or least makes the returns marginal?
Was Crystal Palace a bigger club to Ferguson or just one paying more money?
at the time? both.
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Saw that morgan Roger's has gone to Lincoln. Does that mean morton will come back? I imagine soule will also
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Saw that morgan Roger's has gone to Lincoln. Does that mean morton will come back? I imagine soule will also
Rogers plays for Man City, not us, and unless Lincoln are at their limit on loans (is it five per match-day squad, but unlimited in the registered squad?) then I don't see why Morton being there would be a problem?
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Rogers plays for Man City, not us, and unless Lincoln are at their limit on loans (is it five per match-day squad, but unlimited in the registered squad?) then I don't see why Morton being there would be a problem?
Pushing Morton down pecking order? Or possibly covering him for an injury that's worse than initially believed?
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Rogers plays for Man City, not us, and unless Lincoln are at their limit on loans (is it five per match-day squad, but unlimited in the registered squad?) then I don't see why Morton being there would be a problem?
Still really annoyed with that Rogers move. By accounts i've seen he was was happy to stay. The fact we got £4m rather than just training compensation suggests he wanted the club to benefit too, as I understand Jude Bellingham did with Blues (albeit to a much greater extent - allegedly its part of the the reason he went to Dortmund rather than United).
For these reasons I've been keeping an eye out and waiting for him to break through. I hope he does well. If he tears up league one, perhaps one who could be of interest to us if we go down next year.
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Pushing Morton down pecking order? Or possibly covering him for an injury that's worse than initially believed?
Ah yes, I didn't realise that was what you meant. That's quite possible. I always thought Rogers played more as a 10 than an out and out striker, so hopefully they aren't competing for the same spot.
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Pushing Morton down pecking order? Or possibly covering him for an injury that's worse than initially believed?
More likely the latter. As far as I'm aware Morton hasnt been seen practically all season.
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FA Youth Cup temporarily suspended........
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/fa-youth-cup-temporarily-suspended
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Anyone got any news on Callum Morton?
Seems to have vanished.
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Injured isn't he?
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Anyone got any news on Callum Morton?
Seems to have vanished.
He's having rehab' on his shoulder at the Albion, Appleton thinks he's out until February.......
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/lincoln-city-boss-michael-appleton-4791455.amp
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Hadn't clocked it but it's now been just over a decade since our Under 16's crowned themselves the Nike Premier Shield winners (and therefore the number 1 ranked academy side in England) and represented England in the subsequent continental competition.
It's incredible to think such a talented side didn't produce a single first team Albion appearance, in fact I don't think any of them went on to play championship football either.
Adil Nabi is playing in the Greek top flight, Ellikem Amenku was playkng non league and Warley Sunday, Brad Garmston has recently been released by Grimsby, Donervon Daniels is at Crewe and Jordan Tunnicliffe scored for Crawley vs Leeds on the TV last week.
There might be others knocking around the football league but i'd have to find an old programme out to remember who was part of that youth side.
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It's incredible to think such a talented side didn't produce a single first team Albion appearance, in fact I don't think any of them went on to play championship football either.
You need the right manager in place for the long term. Bilic in 9 months brought through Ferguson from nowhere, got Edwards into the team, gave Harper a real chance and pushed Tulloch up the pecking order. He was the best we have had for giving youth players a chance and seeing their potential. Whereas the likes of Pulis are a joke. We lost out on several good players by way of swapping managers every 18 months and being short-term in our thinking. Chris Woods is an obvious one; he always looked like the quality target man he was, yet we wanted the £1.5m fee for him for spend elsewhere; classic short term win for huge long term loss.
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Hadn't clocked it but it's now been just over a decade since our Under 16's crowned themselves the Nike Premier Shield winners (and therefore the number 1 ranked academy side in England) and represented England in the subsequent continental competition.
It's incredible to think such a talented side didn't produce a single first team Albion appearance, in fact I don't think any of them went on to play championship football either.
Adil Nabi is playing in the Greek top flight, Ellikem Amenku was playkng non league and Warley Sunday, Brad Garmston has recently been released by Grimsby, Donervon Daniels is at Crewe and Jordan Tunnicliffe scored for Crawley vs Leeds on the TV last week.
There might be others knocking around the football league but i'd have to find an old programme out to remember who was part of that youth side.
Was Lateef Elford-Alliyu part of that squad?
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Was Lateef Elford-Alliyu part of that squad?
No, he came before. Alliyu was part of our first true "academy coming of age" side, with Sawyers, Thorne, Wood, Roofe, Dowling, Mantom, O'Neil, Allsop and the year below's Berahino.
Nabi, Garmston, Daniels etc played in the same reserves/PL2 team but were 2 age groups below.
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Was Lateef Elford-Alliyu part of that squad?
I am sure he retired years ago?
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I am sure he retired years ago?
Looks like he was with Coventry 2016 but his career just stopped. Weird because if you look at his stats is would appear he could have had a career in lower/non & abroad leagues scoring 25 goals in 91 appearances which includes 16 in 35 in the Maltese Premier League. I don't know how that pays but sounds like an ok life to me!
I don't know why but i followed his career for a bit, a bit like I did with Romaine Sawyers so imagine my glee when he re-signed followed by disparity when his form fell off a cliff edge!
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We have had lots of very promising youngsters but there seems to be a glass ceiling when it comes to maturing into the first team. We have had numerous players playing for England age groups that seem to hit a brick wall.
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We have had lots of very promising youngsters but there seems to be a glass ceiling when it comes to maturing into the first team. We have had numerous players playing for England age groups that seem to hit a brick wall.
I can't really tell if it's:
A, our post 16 academy acts as a poor "finishing school" and fails to develop them
B, we have failed to come up a coherent plan on how we are going to develop pathways for our youngsters into our first team
C, our success getting players into the England age groups is as much down to us being viewed favourably by people within the FA who possibly overrate our academy plus the influence a number of Ex Albion people have had on the englush age teams (Ashworth, Downing, Boothroyd)
I tend to think B and C are the biggest two factors, although you could make the argument that since the Woosld/Berahino/Sawyers/Roofe team, we haven't really produced any premier league quality players who have gone on to do well after leaving us.
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Twitter is starting to get excited about Morgan Rogers. Apparently he was the major influence in all three Lincoln city goals. It’s taken him about 5 games to adjust and look like one of the best players in league one apparently.
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Twitter is starting to get excited about Morgan Rogers. Apparently he was the major influence in all three Lincoln city goals. It’s taken him about 5 games to adjust and look like one of the best players in league one apparently.
Yep, had a quick look at the Lincoln fans forum. They think Rogers is class. Also, to a man and woman they absolutely love Palmer, utterly dependable and consistently excellent. many comments saying trying to buy him needs to be their top priority in the summer.
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Sawyers and Livermore playing for the u'23s today. I would give Sam a ten year contract just for the fact I have been able to see that happen this season.
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Sawyers and Livermore playing for the u'23s today. I would give Sam a ten year contract just for the fact I have been able to see that happen this season.
Same.
Also in that side Robinson and Diangana. Don't think Sam is too impressed with the "band".
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Same.
Also in that side Robinson and Diangana. Don't think Sam is too impressed with the "band".
Grady very quickly recovered from his "illness" then.
I'd sell all four of them if I had my way.
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Same.
Also in that side Robinson and Diangana. Don't think Sam is too impressed with the "band".
Robinson for Burke was one of those strange deals where neither side won. Both are Championship at best
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Grady very quickly recovered from his "illness" then.
I'd sell all four of them if I had my way.
I wouldn’t Diangana has ability to turn games , he needs a manager/ coach to get the best out of him ! If we get rid of everybody people want us to we’ll need to sign about 15 players !
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Grady very quickly recovered from his "illness" then.
I'd sell all four of them if I had my way.
Yeah was indeed a mysterious illness. Very mysterious, almost to the point where the mysterious illness didnt exist. :o
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Currently 0-0 at home to Burnley 30 odd mins gone. Team includes Sawyers, Livermore, Diangana, Robinson and Windsor.
Updates on Burnley twitter.
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Currently 0-0 at home to Burnley 30 odd mins gone. Team includes Sawyers, Livermore, Diangana, Robinson and Windsor.
Updates on Burnley twitter.
Bet365 and Flash Score also giving updates.
Not one person in that Burnley line up I recognise. Given our "names" we should be beating these with ease.
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0-0 half time.
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I thought i read Grady was too ill to play yesterday but is fit enough to play today.
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I thought i read Grady was too ill to play yesterday but is fit enough to play today.
Yep. We all read that mate.
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1-0 Diangana
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2-0 now
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2-1
Late goalfest
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Robbo with our 2nd, Sawyers assist :o
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Robinson with our second.
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Robbo with our 2nd, Sawyers assist :o
Windsor assist according to Flash score.
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Livermore with an assist for Diangana too. :-\
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Livermore with an assist for Diangana too. :-\
I bet he miscontrolled it and it just happened to end up at Diangana's feet. ;D
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I bet he miscontrolled it and it just happened to end up at Diangana's feet. ;D
Definitely not that far fetched. Probably shinned it or something
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Definitely not that far fetched. Probably shinned it or something
Must have passed it backwards, it got caught by a massive gust of wind, blew back over his head and into the path of Diangana.
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Must have passed it backwards, it got caught by a massive gust of wind, blew back over his head and into the path of Diangana.
Then as Diangana slots it home, Livermore kisses the badge.
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Putting things into perspective nameless Man City and Blackburn teams win 5. We with 4 Championship first teamers are in the balance with three mins to go against a nameless Burnley team.
Not very inspiring.
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Our 4 are possibly unhappy at having to play with the kids. It's beneath them in their eyes likely.
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Burnley down to 10! Late drama
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We shouldve won this 4 or 5, should be way too classy.
We edged it. 2-1 in the end
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Ref blows final whistle in the 96th minute. WBA walk away victors with 2 goals to 1.
Can you tell i'm bored to death?
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Hope this works!
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/albion-pl2-2-burnley-pl2-1?fbclid=IwAR2BgMkg5hgLMR6B7GBaIis6r05TlwKNc9zqoK85wwgrpi7RtixpCWyB0Ns
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Thought it was strange Livermore got the assist!
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Sawyers won a tackle on the edge of their penalty area!!! Had to rewind that bit
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Why all the digs at players that last season people were all praising?
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I never rated Sawyers, seemed mediocre at best overall in the EFL although i did think he might do better this year, Livermore seemed fit last year and was never a good footballer but this season he looks miles off the pace in terms of fitness.
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I never rated Sawyers, seemed mediocre at best overall in the EFL although i did think he might do better this year, Livermore seemed fit last year and was never a good footballer but this season he looks miles off the pace in terms of fitness.
Sawyers has been highly rated by almost everyone until Bilic tried to make him a defensive midfielder and then Allardyce who you would have expected to have seen some of our games did the same and the player was destroyed by fans, had his confidence shot and yet last year hailed as "one of our own".
I get that people don't rate players but I don't get the digs at them.
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sawyers is a talented player who has been mis-used, Jake average championship for me
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I've never seen anything in Sawyers to suggest he is anything but an average Championship player.
He did seem well regarded when he arrived so maybe it is just a case of him being played in the wrong position.
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Sawyers has been highly rated by almost everyone until Bilic tried to make him a defensive midfielder and then Allardyce who you would have expected to have seen some of our games did the same and the player was destroyed by fans, had his confidence shot and yet last year hailed as "one of our own".
I get that people don't rate players but I don't get the digs at them.
Like i say Phil, i never got the Sawyers love in. He started well last season but went downhill fast for me and was even worse this year, granted hes being played where he is not used too but it his general demeanour/attitude i guess you could say that riles me. Very much may be who he is but thats incompatible with my idea of a midfielder.
Livermore never a good footballer but was up for the fight last season, this season looks like he's not been for a run 6 months.
Sure they are lovely blokes off the field and they do seem it from social media but i dont want to see them play for us together, at the same time, ever again. Just my 2 cents.
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Why all the digs at players that last season people were all praising?
Pathetic isn't it . Livermore is no longer good enough for the Prem, but I am not having this talk of him not being any good LAST season . Played well ,great leader and ended up mentally and physically exhausted. Some shameful comments on here by our own supporters. Of course feel free not to like any player but not to post negatively almost every bloody week.
I cannot have escaped your attention but Jake has not played many games since Allardyce arrived , and now today ,people who should know better taking the **** out of him playing for the Under 23's.
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I know this thread has gone off at a tangent, but there have been some fantastic midfielders with a languid style (ie our own Jonathan Greening, Dimitar Berbatov, Grealish ....) so I can forgive Romaine for that. He needs to have a good run as AMF before he is judged here IMO.
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I know this thread has gone off at a tangent, but there have been some fantastic midfielders with a languid style (ie our own Jonathan Greening, Dimitar Berbatov, Grealish ....) so I can forgive Romaine for that. He needs to have a good run as AMF before he is judged here IMO.
Quick point. Berbatov may have been languid but he most definitely wasn't a midfielder. That notwithstanding, Sawyers is definitely better further up the pitch.
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Back on track and for what little its worth but Owen Windsor scored just as the whistle went in the last seconds of todays game as Burnley sent their keeper up for a corner to try and snatch an equaliser. He broke and scored but ref ruled it out. He ay happy.
No idea how twitter vids work, try this
https://twitter.com/i/status/1369043941803388933
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Quick point. Berbatov may have been languid but he most definitely wasn't a midfielder. That notwithstanding, Sawyers is definitely better further up the pitch.
Started as a DM and ended as a MF libero, with a brilliant career up front as well. Amazing player !
I clearly remember him destroying us at the Hawthorns from midfield. If memory serves well, I remember someone going in on him "robustly" and he basically dissected us from that point on.
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We’ve signed a 19 year old left sided centre back eligible for Nigeria much like Semi. 6â€6 and pacey.
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we have a pair of semi's ??
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Kevin Joshua. From Solihull United as opposed to the Moors as has been reported.
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Edwards and Grosicki in the stiffs today. Boro at home 1pm kick off.
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Be good for them to get minutes into their legs, it's also an opportunity to give Boro food for thought as they'll both be out of contract soon.
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I'd be amazed if either were here next season so their participation is a bit meh to me.
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Edwards needs to play football, he's at that age now. Luton wanted him on loan but Dowling wanted too high a loan fee so they pulled out.
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Times must be hard at the Brum Mail they have done player ratings and a match report on the U23's game
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-player-ratings-vs-20115323
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Currently losing 3-0 to Leeds, couple of pens and we had Harmon sent off.
Free live stream here if you are bored like me or go on the main Leeds twitter
https://www.leedsunited.com/news/academy/27896/u23s-preview-west-bromwich-albion-vs-leeds-united
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0-4, watched 3 mins, we havent touched ball !
We are down to 10, George Hart sent off
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Leeds U23s have run away with the league apparently. I dont really follow it.
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0-5 wonder free kick !
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Pretty strong Leeds lineup tbf, 5 players in it from first team squad i think
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At least half our first team isn't playing this week.
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At least half our first team isn't playing this week.
I've only watched a bit, but its surprisingly representative of how the respective first teams play, (and the result will be representative too)
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u23 side looks physically weak, naive, slow of thought and action. Whoever is in charge of this lot does not seem to have much to work with. Maybe just a very good experienced Leeds side but not a lot to hope for here on this performance.
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I get the impression we deliberately work an age group down, and all of our players that would make us truly and consistently competitive at that level get sent out on loan.
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We have a worrying lack of quality at that level......its concerning we are consistently at the bottom of the premier league 2.
Doesn't exactly say much for our player production skills when it keeps happening. The under 18's tend to do badly as well.
We seem to produce good players till 16 then the 16-21 development strategy of the club seems awful. A lot of players - Rekheem Harper, Leko, Field, Edwards seem no better by the time they get to 21 than when we first see them. Whatever the club is doing there it doesn't seem to work much. Certainly not for midfielders or attackers. Ferguson and O'Shea at least show some signs for defenders we might have some hope.
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We have a worrying lack of quality at that level......its concerning we are consistently at the bottom of the premier league 2.
Doesn't exactly say much for our player production skills when it keeps happening. The under 18's tend to do badly as well.
We seem to produce good players till 16 then the 16-21 development strategy of the club seems awful. A lot of players - Rekheem Harper, Leko, Field, Edwards seem no better by the time they get to 21 than when we first see them. Whatever the club is doing there it doesn't seem to work much. Certainly not for midfielders or attackers. Ferguson and O'Shea at least show some signs for defenders we might have some hope.
Yep there were a couple of decent defensive tackles in the bits I saw, but absolutely zilch in any creative aspect, passing, movement, vision etc. No support for a striker - nothing
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Leeds U23s have run away with the league apparently. I dont really follow it.
No surprise. They seemed to buy an entire youth team squad in the summer, including a few players who were already on the fringes of first team football elsewhere last season.
A club with a long term strategy.
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No surprise. They seemed to buy an entire youth team squad in the summer, including a few players who were already on the fringes officer team football elsewhere last season.
A club with a long term strategy.
Whats that and how do get an owner who has one?
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Whats that and how do get an owner who has one?
Anyone got the Jersey blokes number ??
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Diaby back playing for the stiffs today also we seem to have an unnamed trial it’s in starting line up
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Diaby back playing for the stiffs today also we seem to have an unnamed trial it’s in starting line up
Looking at that team it doesn't half look weak.
Some of our best youngsters are out on loan I get that but we don't seem to have much behind them. Toby King is a workhorse. Saul Shotton apparently "a leader". Edwards has stalled, Windsor cant get in ahead of Diaby and Soule (who will never make the grade as long as he has a hole in his xxxx).
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Losing 2-1 . The trial isn’t has scored our goal . Connor Whickham scored both of theirs
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Finished 1-2 >:(
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Under 18s beat Cardiff 2-1 to progress to the 5th round of the Youth Cup. Apparently there was a feed, did anyone watch who can appraise?
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Was dipping in and out but stream went down for me around the hr mark. Did well against what looked to be a much bigger more physical side.
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Very enjoyable to watch . Good all round team performance, with passing that put the first team to shame.
I had no sound and do not know the players names unfortunately, but I can say that the best player on the pitch was our right winger (number 7) . It was great to see players numbered 1-11. In summary I did not see anyone in our team who did not look fairly comfortable on the ball. It gave me great pleasure to watch this match with both teams giving their all. What a joy after watching some of the half-hearted urine poor fare we have witnessed from the first team this season
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U18s have beaten Spurs 5-0 in the FA Youth Cup :) :) :)
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That is a very good result for our lads. The Spurs team is very good and there a number of them who some Spurs fans would like to see fast tracked into their first team set up. On the day we were greatly assisted by Spurs having a player sent off but we were the better team at that point and were a goal ahead at the time.
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I've just seen the goals. Some tidy finishes.
Spurs hit the bar twice and we also had a man sent off at 3-0 so the game finished 10 v 10.
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Another academy lad being linked to the Vile (apparently)......
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footballinsider247.com/sources-aston-villa-set-sights-on-luring-rising-star-heard-from-west-brom/amp/
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I Sometimes listen to the Peterborough chairman’s podcast. He can be a bit of a tool, especially on his COVID stance but I find the football stuff from him quite insightful.
Peterborough seem to lose plenty of 12, 13 year olds because there is nothing they can do to stop it, but the manage to get 14,15,16 year olds on pre-pro contracts which stops this. If they can manage it why can’t we?
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I Sometimes listen to the Peterborough chairman’s podcast. He can be a bit of a tool, especially on his COVID stance but I find the football stuff from him quite insightful.
Peterborough seem to lose plenty of 12, 13 year olds because there is nothing they can do to stop it, but the manage to get 14,15,16 year olds on pre-pro contracts which stops this. If they can manage it why can’t we?
I haven't searched extensively so there could be better info but this is what I found...
Foundation Phase takes place when a player is Under 9s – Under 11’s
Youth Development Phase takes place when a player is Under 12’s – Under 16’s
The final phase of the academy system is the Professional Development phase and takes place when a player is Under 17’s – Under 21’s
It seems that Heard is 16 so he's at that point where there's a choice of signing pro contract with the current club or taking up offers from other clubs. Louie Barry and Morgan Rogers will have been that age when they chose to jump ship...not much we can do about it if that's their decision.
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I haven't searched extensively so there could be better info but this is what I found...
Foundation Phase takes place when a player is Under 9s – Under 11’s
Youth Development Phase takes place when a player is Under 12’s – Under 16’s
The final phase of the academy system is the Professional Development phase and takes place when a player is Under 17’s – Under 21’s
It seems that Heard is 16 so he's at that point where there's a choice of signing pro contract with the current club or taking up offers from other clubs. Louie Barry and Morgan Rogers will have been that age when they chose to jump ship...not much we can do about it if that's their decision.
We got £4m for Rogers, so something about that situation gave us some protection in our interest.
Barry went to Barca and the rules about going to a team abroad are obviously different.
What i'm saying though is peterborough do something that secures kids early, meaning they commit to their first pro contract at 17, two or three years in advance of that.
How they do that legally, i dont know, but their chairman expressly said they do it and then they can negotiate transfer fees if the kid is adamant they want to go, rather than losing them for just training comp.
Now if Heard is 16 and hasn't signed, it is obviously too late and there isn't much we can do now. However if we can commit highly rated kids at 14 we should be doing so in some situations (like Barry and Rogers who even i certainly knew about at 13/14), when they are going to be cheaper, and outside interest is lower.
On the flip side if you commit some kids to £300 a week two year deals re, which are binding for when they turn 17 years in advance, you risk that they drop off or fail to make the grade. However if that happens the two year contract costs you £30k. A drop in football terms. For every 10 you get wrong you only need to get one right and then you are laughing even if they want to leave at 19 without playing a because the tribunals come in.
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I think the Rogers money was a sort of compensation amount for the development he had with us. I'm pretty sure it would be similar if Heard went to Villa. As you say, the fact Barry went to Barca made it a different 'arrangement'.
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Read this...
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/chairman-reveals-wolves-transfer-interest-19573340
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I think the Rogers money was a sort of compensation amount for the development he had with us. I'm pretty sure it would be similar if Heard went to Villa. As you say, the fact Barry went to Barca made it a different 'arrangement'.
The pre contract development money is nowhere near £4m. Its hundreds of thousands even for Cat 1. I think the cap is £250,000 up front with add ons.
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Read this...
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/chairman-reveals-wolves-transfer-interest-19573340
i don’t see how that pre contract (signed by a child mind you) is legally enforceable.
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i don’t see how that pre contract (signed by a child mind you) is legally enforceable.
I’m not either as I don’t think a football contract for the future would count as necessity, and only contracts for necessities can be binding with a minor.
However it’s indisputable a football league chairman states it protects them and seems to believe it. So if we can do something like that that,the question still remains why aren’t we.
It might be that it doesn’t bind the child as such, but that footballs governance would prevent another club from signing him which would be slightly different.
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Some quick further research makes me believe it would be considered like an apprenticeship and would be binding
http://www.lawandparents.co.uk/minors-entering-into-contracts.html
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Some quick further research makes me believe it would be considered like an apprenticeship and would be binding
http://www.lawandparents.co.uk/minors-entering-into-contracts.html
I'm not sure if football regulations run in a slightly different way. I'm pretty sure though that there is this crunch moment when it comes to a young player signing their first pro contract at 16/17. Rico Richards signed for 3 years aged 16. I'm not sure what they are up to at Peterbro' but I don't think they can be tied down beyond 16 officially until then. Obviously room for some experts on the contract and legal stuff to chip in here.
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Some quick further research makes me believe it would be considered like an apprenticeship and would be binding
http://www.lawandparents.co.uk/minors-entering-into-contracts.html
isnt that what the scholarships are for?
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If we end up losing kids to Villa, a mid table prem side, then there are real issues that we need to fix in our academy set up. At this point, we are going to over take QPR and Fulham as the most pillaged academy in English football. We are losing the best player from each age group every year now. Smith, Barry, Rodgers, Ferguson, Dhanda, Sinclair, Brown, Roberts, it's relentless.
What is going on that means we can't retain our best players when other clubs like Leicester, Norwich, Southampton, Wolves and Palace can?
I know Jude Bellingham turned down offers from a big 6 club prior to his 16th birthday and stayed at the Blues, so why are we finding it so hard?
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If we end up losing kids to Villa, a mid table prem side, then there are real issues that we need to fix in our academy set up. At this point, we are going to over take QPR and Fulham as the most pillaged academy in English football. We are losing the best player from each age group every year now. Smith, Barry, Rodgers, Ferguson, Dhanda, Sinclair, Brown, Roberts, it's relentless.
What is going on that means we can't retain our best players when other clubs like Leicester, Norwich, Southampton, Wolves and Palace can?
I know Jude Bellingham turned down offers from a big 6 club prior to his 16th birthday and stayed at the Blues, so why are we finding it so hard?
Think Roberts and Ferguson at least were slightly older. Pretty sure they signed initial pro contracts but then turned down extensions due to interest or better deals elsewhere ?
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It surely cannot have helped having such huge staff turnover in the last 2? Years! That and no clear pathways to develop via loans or u-23’s wouldn’t encourage me to risk my lads future at West Brom if other options presented themselves.
It’s clear we are an unstable club with zero long term vision or strategy, why would you stay?
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For those who don't feel too dirty doing it, there is a link on the Wolves twittet account foe the PL2 reserves Black County derby. Kicked off 5 mins ago, live on you tube.
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Im watching it.
Link is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUBqY7W9ScE
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Who is 'Trialist'? Anyone see it from kick off? We have a Teixiera on the bench again 8)
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Great save from our keeper there.
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Who is 'Trialist'? Anyone see it from kick off? We have a Teixiera on the bench again 8)
Think it's a lad called Moses who i've never seen before and after watching the first half he needs to be because we are going to need a small miracle to get anything from this game.
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Drew 1-1 late penalty.
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Drew 1-1 late penalty.
I switched off at 80 mins. Didn't look great overall although 2nd half we were much improved.
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WBA’s PL 2 side lost again yesterday, 1-0 to Stoke City. The side contained the returning Rayhaan Tulloch, after a season wasted by injury, as well as somebody called Grosicki (who?). No Diaby in the squad again, he seems to spend a lot of time out injured.
The under 18’s won 3-1 away at Southampton today. The goals were scored by two players I haven’t actually heard of, Reyes Cleary and somebody called Layton Love (who doesn’t even have a profile on the Under 18s section of the website and may be a school kid still). The under 18s seem to be on quite a good run at the moment which is a good sign.
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The under 18s seem to be on quite a good run at the moment which is a good sign.
Yes, it'll be rich pickings again for the Liverpool and Man City scouts.
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The under 18s seem to be on quite a good run at the moment which is a good sign.
It's a bit early for judgements but is a first good sign that the academy changes haven't derailed things - nor should they as we have a highly regarded academy manager.
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The under 18's have made a 2nd FA youth cup semi final in the space of a few years, by beating an Everton side that have beaten Man City and Chelsea.
We play Villa in the semi final with a serious chance of winning the thing.
A nice silver lining after a tough season and maybe proof we really should be giving our academy kids more chances.
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Played really well
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Some very good, strong mature performances out there tonight.
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The under 18's have made a 2nd FA youth cup semi final in the space of a few years, by beating an Everton side that have beaten Man City and Chelsea.
We play Villa in the semi final with a serious chance of winning the thing.
A nice silver lining after a tough season and maybe proof we really should be giving our academy kids more chances.
Very enjoyable game to watch , well done lads , under the watchful eye of Mr Dowling
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Well done to the lads some good looking players there, Texeira in the middle won absolutely everything.
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You know what makes it sweeter? Thierry Small, the left back who nearly.scored for Everton late on (and also Eveeton's youngest fiest team debutant) left Albion to join Everton a couple of years ago.
Let's hope we can do the same to Barry next time out.
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For those who watched the match, how did Ethan Ingram play? My son was in a junior team with him - Abbeymead Rovers (greens) and they both got scouted for a Bristol City development set up on the same day - about 9 years ago.
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Did anyone watch the game? Were there any shining lights who really impressed?
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For those who watched the match, how did Ethan Ingram play? My son was in a junior team with him - Abbeymead Rovers (greens) and they both got scouted for a Bristol City development set up on the same day - about 9 years ago.
Played very well, particularly in the first half. Second half Everton pushed on more down his side to negate his theat going forward. Coped well with the extra pressure. One of quite a few to watch. Enjoyable evening's entertainment.
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Thanks very much for that
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Perhaps (perhaps) to give products of the Academy a chance, we have to stop trying to get back in the Premier League a.s.a.p.
by the device of hiring ageing professionals with no on-sale prospects and only a mercenary interest in playing for us?
OK the parachute payments will be gone but we might be self sustaining and the current system of parachute payments is threatened anyway.
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Well done lads, great to see kids doing well in Cup bring on the vile.
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Wouldn't it be lovely to get one over on Harrison & Barry in the Semi-final!
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Think I want to win this Villa match more than the first team Villa game!
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Nice to hear both Allardyce and Lee were at the Everton match .
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Did anyone watch the game? Were there any shining lights who really impressed?
Joe Chapman from the Evening mail did a decent write up last night on their website. He is worth a follow for the youth side of things.
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I only watched the last 30 mins - turned on just before the equaliser - but we were dominant from that point until we went ahead, then sat back a bit as they pressed for an equaliser. Teixiera was the pick of the bunch for me in that time, but quite a few looked very composed on the ball.
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Couple of Academy bits if you're interested.
Someone mentioned the Southampton game earlier in the thread. Layton Love, who scored the first, is indeed still at school. He's an U16 who wasn't originally in the squad but someone dropped out last minute.
Zac Ashworth, who scored the winner v Everton is Dan's son (his youngest lad is at Wolves) & centre back Caleb Taylor is former Blues & Watford CB Martin Taylor's lad.
Rumour is that Aurio Teixeira (who rejoices in the nickname "Biscuit") has not had his contract extended, so will leave in June. I stress that's the rumour, there's been nothing official on who is going and who's staying.
I understand why everyone is a bit fixated on Louie Barry, but the Villa U18s will also feature other ex Baggies, including Brad Young (who scored 4 against us last time) and Chisum Afoka.
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Thanks for the info blandy, always useful to get updates like that which you wouldn't normally get in the local press.
Shame to hear Villa have 3 ex Albion lads. That's quite a large number, when you factor in the loss of the kid to Everton as well. It shows just how much we haemorrhage players at youth level now. So strange when you look st clubs like Norwich, Southampton and Leicester who seem to be able to keep the vast majority of their kids.
It seems our reputation of being a top scouting academy hurts us.
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Don't understand Aurio Teixeira not getting a new contract. Have seen him a few times now and he is a very busy midfielder, low centre of gravity, good tackler and ball winner who can also pick a pass. He was exceptional against the Everton/kids. Maybe it's because we already have so many good DM's on our books :o
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Teixeira's got a lovely touch and very good technique. Quick feet and likes a tackle too. Being diminutive didn't hamper Kante too much (not drawing comparisons with the finished article ;D ).
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We've lost a few it seems. Just wondering how many lads we might have picked up from elsewhere ? I think 2 or 3 followed Richard Stephens from Coventry to us when he took over as academy manager, can't remember who though.
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Couple of Academy bits if you're interested.
Someone mentioned the Southampton game earlier in the thread. Layton Love, who scored the first, is indeed still at school. He's an U16 who wasn't originally in the squad but someone dropped out last minute.
Zac Ashworth, who scored the winner v Everton is Dan's son (his youngest lad is at Wolves) & centre back Caleb Taylor is former Blues & Watford CB Martin Taylor's lad.
Rumour is that Aurio Teixeira (who rejoices in the nickname "Biscuit") has not had his contract extended, so will leave in June. I stress that's the rumour, there's been nothing official on who is going and who's staying.
I understand why everyone is a bit fixated on Louie Barry, but the Villa U18s will also feature other ex Baggies, including Brad Young (who scored 4 against us last time) and Chisum Afoka.
Why did the three lads go to Villa? Contracts? Or the influence of Harrison? Villa also are throwing money around big time.
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Why did the three lads go to Villa? Contracts? Or the influence of Harrison? Villa also are throwing money around big time.
Probably a mixture of all those things allied to newer training facilities, higher profile club (whether we like it or not) and the possibility they might be Vilers wanting to play for 'their' club. Hopcroft established a number of football youth satellite coaching set ups in more traditionally Villa supporting areas.
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Probably a mixture of all those things allied to newer training facilities, higher profile club (whether we like it or not) and the possibility they might be Vilers wanting to play for 'their' club. Hopcroft established a number of football youth satellite coaching set ups in more traditionally Villa supporting areas.
It's interesting that most people's first thought is they've been poached in some way. Whilst the Barry deal was well publicised, Afoka was bought this season at, as far as I'm aware, full EPPP compensation but Brad Young was released by Albion at about 15.
Ollie Tipton, who captains Wolves 18s and has just got a pro contract was released at 11/12. Owen Farmer, an U16 at Wolves playing and scoring regularly for their 18s was released around 12 too.
Sometimes, they get it wrong.
As regards players coming from Coventry, I'm not aware of any.
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Players mature at different rates physically, emotionally and in terms of tactical and general footballing know how. There are times when wrong calls are made.
There are also times when the stars align for those who are retained only for their sparkle to fade. Time, tide and finance provide for shifting sands.
For example, I'd be loathe to let Teixeira slip through the net as has been suggested may be the case earlier. But then I've no idea whether the coaching staff feel he may be blocking the pathway of someone they feel may have even more potential.
Either way we can't keep everyone.
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Players mature at different rates physically, emotionally and in terms of tactical and general footballing know how. There are times when wrong calls are made.
There are also times when the stars align for those who are retained only for their sparkle to fade. Time, tide and finance provide for shifting sands.
For example, I'd be loathe to let Teixeira slip through the net as has been suggested may be the case earlier. But then I've no idea whether the coaching staff feel he may be blocking the pathway of someone they feel may have even more potential.
Either way we can't keep everyone.
Exactly this, well put. My point was it's not always the "fault" of the club they end up at.
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Also, lads get released due to misdemeanours...
I am aware of two wba youth who the club have reluctantly let go...
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Also, lads get released due to misdemeanours...
I am aware of two wba youth who the club have reluctantly let go...
I feel as though we are on the cusp of some genuinely intriguing rumour..... on a football forum....... at last........ this is just the kind of stuff I've been waiting for ;D .
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From BBC website
"Southampton are monitoring West Brom goalkeeper Josh Griffiths before a potential summer move for the 19-year-old, who has impressed on loan at Cheltenham this season. (Football Insider)"
As someone said above, you can have a decent academy but your best products are poached. Perhaps better to go the Brentford way and have a comprehensive statistical way of identifying talent that is regarded as fringe by traditional scouting measures (cf Toney).
... or use better measures to contract the best talent coming out of the academy?
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From BBC website
"Southampton are monitoring West Brom goalkeeper Josh Griffiths before a potential summer move for the 19-year-old, who has impressed on loan at Cheltenham this season. (Football Insider)"
As someone said above, you can have a decent academy but your best products are poached. Perhaps better to go the Brentford way and have a comprehensive statistical way of identifying talent that is regarded as fringe by traditional scouting measures (cf Toney).
... or use better measures to contract the best talent coming out of the academy?
Those bar stewards sounds like we need to tie him down to a longer deal... he needs to be back at Cheltenham next year and taste league 1
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From BBC website
"Southampton are monitoring West Brom goalkeeper Josh Griffiths before a potential summer move for the 19-year-old, who has impressed on loan at Cheltenham this season. (Football Insider)"
As someone said above, you can have a decent academy but your best products are poached. Perhaps better to go the Brentford way and have a comprehensive statistical way of identifying talent that is regarded as fringe by traditional scouting measures (cf Toney).
... or use better measures to contract the best talent coming out of the academy?
I think we did thankfully contract Griffiths. Pretty sure he signed a 4 year deal last year.
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Griffiths signed a contract until 2023 last year.
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Griffiths signed a contract until 2023 last year.
It might be worth renegotiating that given the promise he’s shown this year..
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I would be interested in what Southampton put on the table. Goalkeepers who have been prodigies at a young age like Ramsdale, Carson, Butland, Joe Lewis etc have ended up tailing off just as often as they go on to succeed. We let a keeper go a few months ago who had several England youth caps up to U21 level in Jonathan Bond, which shows how hard it is for young keepers.
I'd love to keep him, but if Southampton were to put a £10m offer on the table (which I doubt), i'd consider it.
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It's interesting that most people's first thought is they've been poached in some way. Whilst the Barry deal was well publicised, Afoka was bought this season at, as far as I'm aware, full EPPP compensation but Brad Young was released by Albion at about 15.
Ollie Tipton, who captains Wolves 18s and has just got a pro contract was released at 11/12. Owen Farmer, an U16 at Wolves playing and scoring regularly for their 18s was released around 12 too.
Sometimes, they get it wrong.
As regards players coming from Coventry, I'm not aware of any.
In fairness, that is 2 of the 3 we have had poached from us though isn't it. I take your point about Brad Young though and Ollie Tipton. Forss at Brentford is an example of how hard it is to predict youth footballers potential.
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I feel as though we are on the cusp of some genuinely intriguing rumour..... on a football forum....... at last........ this is just the kind of stuff I've been waiting for ;D .
These go back 5 years.
I was just saying players are let go for a lot more than just their talent.
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I would be interested in what Southampton put on the table. Goalkeepers who have been prodigies at a young age like Ramsdale, Carson, Butland, Joe Lewis etc have ended up tailing off just as often as they go on to succeed. We let a keeper go a few months ago who had several England youth caps up to U21 level in Jonathan Bond, which shows how hard it is for young keepers.
I'd love to keep him, but if Southampton were to put a £10m offer on the table (which I doubt), i'd consider it.
Southampton bought one of the most promising goalkeeping prospects in Angus Gunn from Man City for £10m a couple of seasons back he has now taken Butland's spot on Stoke City's bench. They also picked up Jack Rose when we released him and I did wonder if he was one we had let get away but I guess not as he is currently at Walsall.
If I was Josh I'd avoid Southampton good things don't happen to goalkeepers down there.
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Yep, I nearly included Gunn in the list of much heralded young English goalkeepers.
While I'd like to keep Griffiths, his stock is very high at the moment and he has a good contract. If a top side did want to make a move for the top teenage English goalkeeper and if they wanted to speculate with a tempting offer, I wouldn't blame the club at all. It justifies the academy if we are getting good fees for the youngsters.
Its worth noting as well one of the criticisms of Griffiths from the Cheltenham end is distribution- something a lot of people in football are rightly or wrongly seeing as a key modern goalkeeper skillset now.
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Yep, I nearly included Gunn in the list of much heralded young English goalkeepers.
While I'd like to keep Griffiths, his stock is very high at the moment and he has a good contract. If a top side did want to make a move for the top teenage English goalkeeper and if they wanted to speculate with a tempting offer, I wouldn't blame the club at all. It justifies the academy if we are getting good fees for the youngsters.
Its worth noting as well one of the criticisms of Griffiths from the Cheltenham end is distribution- something a lot of people in football are rightly or wrongly seeing as a key modern goalkeeper skillset now.
Unless the player is exceptional at this (Ederson), it doesn't seem to make much difference imo. Alisson, Lloris, De Gea no better than average with the ball at their feet.
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Nor Pope.
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It is really tough to know what to do with Griffiths. The general view seems to be that he is going to be better than Palmer but right now Palmer who is 5 years his senior is further along his development path. It would be a huge call to promote Griffiths ahead of Palmer and go into a Championship season with a 20 year old as the first choice keeper and that just feels like a step too far.
Yet a season or maybe 2 at the outside in League One and he will be more than ready but we might then be a Premier League club and promoting to first choice might again feel like a bit of a risk.
I keep going round in circles with young talent and I always come back to the same conclusion. We have to be braver with our young players and push them into the first team. Yet goalkeeper is always the one position that is tougher than than the rest.
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A suggestion - keep them both next year. 20 plus games each. Each knows there is an element of competition there plus either can be taken out of the firing line at any time. There are also the PL2 games available. If come January one is clearly doing better, then can maybe send the other one out on loan at that stage.
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It’s Palmer coming back for me, and Griffiths doing a season in league 1.
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Unless the player is exceptional at this (Ederson), it doesn't seem to make much difference imo. Alisson, Lloris, De Gea no better than average with the ball at their feet.
Personally I agree, I think a goalkeeper should be there primarily to keep the ball out of the net and the rest is academic, but more and more there is an expectation for top keepers to be up to a certain standard with their distribution as well - atleast from those close to the game. Football analytics types seems to be stressing more and more that it is important and clubs do seem to be moving towards using analytics now.
Ederson is the obvious one, but Allison does rate highly on a lot of the metrics like accurate passing percentages and players like Lloris and Schmeichel do ok. De Gea seems to be the exception.
For the top clubs at the very least, it seems to be an important skill.
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It’s Palmer coming back for me, and Griffiths doing a season in league 1.
Same for me, Palmer deserves his chance while Griffiths has the perfect league 1 loan available to him.
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Re Griffiths and his footwork skills....it may be correct this opinion from some Cheltenham fans or it could be exaggerated.
Given the amount of talk about the importance of goalkeepers being able to pass etc. which has gone on for 3 or 4 years now, especially since Pep arrived at City and the Joe Hart situation, I'd be astonished if any young keepers with any ambition wouldn't have been working extensively on that part of the game in recent years. As Glen Hoddle sometimes says all you need is a ball and a wall and you can work in isolation at improving your skills.
Surely any keeper on professional terms must have half decent hand eye coordination which should translate to being able to be comfortable with the ball at your feet. In short it shouldn't be impossible for Griffiths to improve on this aspect of his game over the next couple of years. Also, any goalkeeping coach worth his salt should see this as one of the important aspects of a players development in the modern game.
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Quick update, Teixeira fans can breath again. Apparently on the back of recent performances he's been offered a one year pro deal.
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Quick update, Teixeira fans can breath again. Apparently on the back of recent performances he's been offered a one year pro deal.
Nice one, cheers for the update.
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Re Griffiths and his footwork skills....it may be correct this opinion from some Cheltenham fans or it could be exaggerated.
Given the amount of talk about the importance of goalkeepers being able to pass etc. which has gone on for 3 or 4 years now, especially since Pep arrived at City and the Joe Hart situation, I'd be astonished if any young keepers with any ambition wouldn't have been working extensively on that part of the game in recent years. As Glen Hoddle sometimes says all you need is a ball and a wall and you can work in isolation at improving your skills.
Surely any keeper on professional terms must have half decent hand eye coordination which should translate to being able to be comfortable with the ball at your feet. In short it shouldn't be impossible for Griffiths to improve on this aspect of his game over the next couple of years. Also, any goalkeeping coach worth his salt should see this as one of the important aspects of a players development in the modern game.
Well I don't suppose the Sams will be getting the keepers and centre backs to be going through triangle passing drills any time soon. I wonder whether Graeme Jones ever did. Given his favoured approach to the game it would have been a criminal oversight not to have done so.
What he saw of this on a match day should have been enough to tell him it was a bad idea with the personnel to hand. If this was witnessed on a near daily basis in training too then Jones should have been slapped all the way back to Martinez and the Belgian national team.
And no, I am not clearing Darren Moore of fault.....
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Quick update, Teixeira fans can breath again. Apparently on the back of recent performances he's been offered a one year pro deal.
Cheers Blandy. Like the look of this lad, reminiscent of a Claudio Jacob type. Interesting to see how he develops
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Not sure if it's been mentioned but....FA Youth Cup semi v Villa is Friday May 14th 6pm, probably on BT.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/fa-youth-cup-semi-final-date-confirmed
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Pity this will probably be screened via subscription. Oh well, there's always the highlights. COYB and SOTV 8) .
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Just noticed highly rated Harry Williams is going to Villa. I wonder what has gone on there.
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Just noticed highly rated Harry Williams is going to Villa. I wonder what has gone on there.
Read a while back he was being released to be fair , think he was going to Blackburn or Burnley for a trial .
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Yeah Williams was released.
Hes been at Burnley on trial now he's going to Villa. I think that is initially a trial as well, with Burnley still showing some interest in him.
I've only seen him play once. Looked distinctly average to me. Not fair to judge on one game though really.
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Williams wasn't in the youth cup squad so I am guessing we think we have better prospects at Centre Back.
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Zak Brown also had a trial with Villa prior to his release this summer.
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Grosicki making a rare appearance in the stiffs today. The rest are the usual under 23s.
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Young lads won 3-2, double from Tulloch and 1 from Harmon
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Grosicki making a rare appearance in the stiffs today. The rest are the usual under 23s.
It’s going a bit off topic I know, but whenever I see anyone get excited online about the potential of England’s current crop of players, the usual suspects come out with the whole “oh, here they go again†blah.
Then I look at Grosicki, the starting winger for the 8th seed in the European championship draw, playing with our youth team.
It justifies getting hopeful.
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Tulloch & Grosicki both better than HRK!
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Tyrese Dyce (20 year old winger) is supposedly having a trial with Sunderland in hopes of a move.
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Shame, Dyce had captained the side in the past from what I remember. Still, at 20 it’s only right to let him go rather than letting him stagnate.
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The FA Youth Cup Semi Final is at 6pm Today on BT Sport 2 for anyone that's interested.
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is it still a two legged event?
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is it still a two legged event?
One ....
https://www.thefa.com/news/2021/apr/19/fa-youth-cup-semi-final-and-final-draw-20210419
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I don’t understand how this works but Goalkeeper Sam French has apparently gone on loan to Birmingham and will be playing for their U’23s side. Its not a trial from what I can tell and he’s not expected to leave afterwards, so no idea how long he’ll be there for or what the overall plan is as the season comes to a close so soon.
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I can't be bothered looking into it, but emergency loans for gks outside the window are a thing.
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I can't be bothered looking into it, but emergency loans for gks outside the window are a thing.
1) I thought they stopped that 2) from info available they have 4 GKs already and 3) emergency loans for youth teams seems odd when they could promote an u18 player instead, they’d have to have lost 5/6 players to get to that point.
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1) I thought they stopped that 2) from info available they have 4 GKs already and 3) emergency loans for youth teams seems odd when they could promote an u18 player instead, they’d have to have lost 5/6 players to get to that point.
Fair enough, was just a thought. ;D
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Fair enough, was just a thought. ;D
It's almost as though you just threw it out there without having bothered to look into it...... ;D .
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It's almost as though you just threw it out there without having bothered to look into it...... ;D .
In my defence I did preface my comment with just that ;D
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Lads are walking out now just in case anyone was interested and forgot early kick off.
COYB
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Big Sams there having a watch
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Richards looks a bit one footed doesn't he
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The FA Youth Cup Semi Final is at 6pm Today on BT Sport 2 for anyone that's interested.
Check out the woodman corner ;)
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Losing 1 0..mistake from Ingram I think
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Poor defending that
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1 1. But of luck but take it all the same
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Two bits of awful defending for the goals, our goal was particularly sunday league.
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Losing 1 0..mistake from Ingram I think
Nice to see this runs through all levels of the club and not just the seniors... :D
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Nice to see this runs through all levels of the club and not just the seniors... :D
Was awful defending only matched by Villas defending for our goal. Can see why neither of these teams were anywhere neat 1st in the league.
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Barry with a screamer for Villa 2-1
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Was always going to score wasn't he.
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Just put it on. Our centre backs are very weak. We look good going forward, surprised at the lack of intensity, can see why Harper is so languid if this is the pace of the academy games.
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Fellows looks useful for us.
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Thought that was a sitter missed, but that's a penalty with VAR.
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Neither side can defend. Seen better defenders on Sundays.
This Tom Fellows chap can play right back or right wing according to this mail article that came up when i googled him.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-9476275/THE-SECRET-SCOUT-West-Broms-Tom-Fellow-pace-good-team-ethic-constant-threat.html
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Thought we looked the better team but they had the cutting edge first half, we certainly seemed to be playing in their half more than they were in ours. Our defence always looks like a disaster waiting to happen though.
Can't stand these idiots on commentary by the way.
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Love how there's very little mention that Barry is from our youth system (only watched from about 35 mins though)
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Love how there's very little mention that Barry is from our youth system (only watched from about 35 mins though)
they have mentioned it, not long after the co commentator said Villa are a big club and had won the European cup (as is tradition whenever they play).
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they have mentioned it, not long after the co commentator said Villa are a big club and had won the European cup (as is tradition whenever they play).
Villa Park spontaneously combusts if this isn't mentioned...so I'm led to believe.
Another tip of the hat to Fellows - looks good!
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Fellows looks like our best hope long term (based solely on today of course)
Nice and direct.
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they have mentioned it, not long after the co commentator said Villa are a big club and had won the European cup (as is tradition whenever they play).
Well their fans never mention it so the commentators have to make up for it ;D
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3-1 OG Ingram, fellas having a nightmare.
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Having an awful game this lad... Was his throw in too😭
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Christ , thought it was BT not Villa TV :-X
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Anybody know if our side is a little younger than Villa's ?
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Anybody know if our side is a little younger than Villa's ?
It's definitely not as good imo.
Been very disappointed by Rico Richards out of our boys.
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Anybody know if our side is a little younger than Villa's ?
about the same, Richards and Malcolm are on the younger side of this game.
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Fellows is 17, 18 this year, thats all i know :P
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Fellows is 17, 18 this year, thats all i know :P
Top info mate ;D
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Awful miss from Malcolm from Fellows excellent work
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Top info mate ;D
18 in July if you want me to take it deeper according to WBA official site ;D
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Awful miss from Malcolm from Fellows excellent work
Been watching Big Ken ;D
Fellows has comfortably been our best player.
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4-1. Woeful defending.
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They're clinical we aren't, while also littered with defensive mistakes. So much like the senior side unfortunately.
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Thought this game might be a nice escape. Louis Barry and Villa destroying us.
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Can’t see some of these making it based on what I’ve seen.
The big lad in midfield and Fellows look our stand out players. Rico Richards has been anonymous
This Villa team look very good - promising for some of their players
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Barry makes it look easy pains me to say, most of the others aside from Fellows making it look hard.
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Can’t see some of these making it based on what I’ve seen.
The big lad in midfield and Fellows look our stand out players. Rico Richards has been anonymous
This Villa team look very good - promising for some of their players
That Chumbawumba lad is good for them as well.
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Barry makes it look easy pains me to say, most of the others aside from Fellows making it look hard.
Ingram is totally oblivious to the positions Barry is picking up. If anything you'd expect we'd be deliberately over aware of him.
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Can’t see some of these making it based on what I’ve seen.
The big lad in midfield and Fellows look our stand out players. Rico Richards has been anonymous
This Villa team look very good - promising for some of their players
Villa’s squad looks entirely reliant on Barry and Chukwameka, the rest are on the level.
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Dowling out ;D
Malcolm's been poor , remember a lot of hype about him .
Been impressed with our No. 8 and Fellows .
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Ingram is totally oblivious to the positions Barry is picking up. If anything you'd expect we'd be deliberately over aware of him.
One of the worst defensive displays i've seen regardless of level. Doesnt seem to have a grasp of the basics of defending.
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Dowling out ;D
Malcolm's been poor , remember a lot of hype about him .
still a decent player but this has been well below his usual standards.
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The young baggies are being outplayed by the Villa under 18's. Ingram having a game to forget, Richards is nowhere to be seen and the goalie hasn't made a name for himself. Disappointing. Best player on the pitch is Louie Barry (spit spit) 4-1 down with a few minutes left Oh, nearly forgot, an eye catching performance by Tom Fellows
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Fellows, Barry and Chukwameka best 3 on the pitch. The rest very MEH. OUr fullbacks very poor.
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Fellows hits post, unlucky, great play
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I'd like to see more of Fellows. Looks very good at this level.
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One of the worst defensive displays i've seen regardless of level. Doesnt seem to have a grasp of the basics of defending.
He doesn't look great going forward either unfortunately
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Sign Fellows to a deal ASAP (in case he is not already)
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He doesn't look great going forward either unfortunately
He's definitely not very good.
Anyone who has seen these lot more regularly have any idea if hes this rubbish every week?
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Hate to say it but Barry is going to be some player. Fellows has easily been our best player.
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Amazed, Villa centre back just fired a back pass like an exocet straight down the middle of the goal, and the young keeper has had the temerity to be there and it didn't go in? I was told at length that this would result in an own goal more often than not after the Leeds game ;)
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Barry looks 3 steps ahead of everyone else..even some of his own team...reminds me of a younger version of Grealish..wouldnt be surprised to see him make some more first team appearances next season..
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He's definitely not very good.
Anyone who has seen these lot more regularly have any idea if hes this rubbish every week?
had a fantastic game in the last round and is overall pretty decent at 18 and 23 level. He’s struggled against Barry but there’s a reason he was touted as the Jewell of the academy from such an early age before “the unpleasantnessâ€
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Don't feel hugely comfortable going in on academy kids who are in reality between 16 and 18 years of age.
For what it's worth, Ingram is an England youth level international so must have been putting in some good performances this season.
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Lots of discussions on the academy thread mate
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Don't feel hugely comfortable going in on academy kids who are in reality between 16 and 18 years of age.
For what it's worth, Ingram is an England youth level international so must have been putting in some good performances this season.
Agreed, some of the comments on here based on one game are out of order.
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Don't feel hugely comfortable going in on academy kids who are in reality between 16 and 18 years of age.
For what it's worth, Ingram is an England youth level international so must have been putting in some good performances this season.
Every chance a few of them just froze on the night. Don't think any of the comments are writing them off. Just commenting on the game as it unfolded.
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Don't feel hugely comfortable going in on academy kids who are in reality between 16 and 18 years of age.
For what it's worth, Ingram is an England youth level international so must have been putting in some good performances this season.
Fully agree. He wasn't exactly getting much help out there down that side.
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Every chance a few of them just froze on the night. Don't think any of the comments are writing them off. Just commenting on the game as it unfolded.
it’s also not THAT uncommon a score line in the youth leagues, we lost 7-1 to Palace before this and beat Spurs 4-1 before that.
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Fellows looked really good, i actually thought Richards and Malcolm had some good moments. Barry rinsed us and that's the story really.
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No comments on this thread are off. There are no personal attacks. A lad played rubbish. I asked if he was like it every week or just a stinker of a night and it was confirmed he is normally a lot better.
No one has a personal vendetta against him whatsoever.
Players should be criticised if don't play well. On the other hand Fellows was excellent.
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No comments on this thread are off. There are no personal attacks. A lad played rubbish. I asked if he was like it every week or just a stinker of a night and it was confirmed he is normally a lot better.
No one has a personal vendetta against him whatsoever.
Players should be criticised if don't play well. On the other hand Fellows was excellent.
Your comment was pretty strong if you read it back.
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Your comment was pretty strong if you read it back.
Which one mate? I've never insulted the lad. If you mean the one where i said he looks as if he lacks the basic idea of defending then tonight he did look that way. I could not say otherwise. Chapmans given him 4 out of 10 too in the after match ratings.
If he has an excellent game next time i see them i will say hes excellent. I'm not going to say he's excellent when he had a nightmare game.
Just googled him and he's 19 in a few months apparently. If he goes and plays first team football at any level he's going to hear a lot lot worse than my criticisms so i'd hope he's mentally strong enough to come back from this game and going forward in the future.
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Kitman Pat and Lepkowski having a post-match chat amongst others on Twitter. Said we have lost a of good staff and players to Villa so no surprise. They say stuff about youth players being kept apart from seniors etc by Dowling was not the main reason. More to it apparently.
One day when Dowlings gone the truth of the total damage he's caused may come out.
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For whatever reason Villa looked a lot stronger and physically mature than we did. On tonight's showing I'd say there were 3 or 4 at a push who could come through eventually with us but nowhere near it yet. Villa on the other hand you could see 3 or 4 who would be much closer to their first team.
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Didnt see tonight's game but I've seen Fellows play before. He's useful. Just 18 years old. I'd be hopeful he could maybe break into the squad in a couple of years. Its worth remembering though that U18 is a level down from U23.
If someone is 23 and hasnt broken through they wont.
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Reinforced the fact that at youth level one player can dominate and turn the game.
Barry did that. I would be interested to know his thoughts on playing on the left as he is quite opinionated.
Bizarre isn't it? Brad Young was probably released as a cf by the Albion because we had Barry. 3 years later Young is cf and Barry rocks up from Barcelona.
We might have kept Brad Young if not for Barry. Now Young looks a good prospect...
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Unless he’s got a growth spurt left, which at 17 isn’t impossible but is becoming less likely, Barry isn’t big enough to be a modern centre forward. He’s a going to need to sit to the left or the right. He looks some player though, his goal was a moment of real quality.
I’m sick of hearing about him already and it’s only going to get worse.
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Barry is rather unfortunately going to have a very good career I believe. Genuine pity it won't be with us. His movement, first touch and finishing are superb. The likes of Fowler, Owen, Aguero and Messi weren't/aren't renowned for their size and I believe rule changes will make it even less of an issue moving forward.
Size and physicality are useful attributes which mean little the higher you go without the technical ability to make the most of it. I'm not suggesting Barry's on a par with those names by the way so much as using them as examples.
Watched the game from the 17/18th minute when it was 1-1 and from that point to the Barry goal I thought both sides acquitted themselves well. Their second goal allowed them to play keep ball which they did very well, moving our lads around so they were chasing shadows. And then the gaps which had started to appear really opened up and I felt our lads were fortunate the winning score wasn't higher.
Villa are physically stronger and they were clearly more organised. They also did their homework on Richards. It's not surprising though really given the amount of time they've spent scouting both himself and Malcolm. They nullified both but Richards in particular is a better player than he was able to show last night. Let's not forget though that a number of Villa coaches will know their games inside out already.
Ingram is a decent young, modern attacking fullback but his defensive lapses are a problem he'll need to learn from and quickly. Again, I think it's safe to say he was an area of Villa focus but he will have better games and shouldn't beat himself up too much.
We've got some good young talent that didn't really shine on the night. They need to switch on a bit more though as time flies. It's obvious they won't all make it but Fellows, Richards and Iregaboum (or however it goes) were my picks on the night.
I've seen much better from Malcolm and Teixeira and was a little disappointed with both. Ashworth has decent technical ability as does De Sousa. It's not all doom and gloom but the academy in my opinion is still going through a phase of recovery following a number of well publicised changes in playing and coaching staff.
For what it's worth I think anyone who left because they felt a bit sniffy over the changes in facility logistics are probably best gone. Change in the workplace is a thing...... restructures happen the world over. Crack on.
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A fair assessment SmethDan. On the physicality front where Villa were significantly stronger, it raises the question with me that if our lads are getting to 18/19 and nowhere near it physically, is this why we see so many go into a sort of no-mans land for a couple of years which many fail to reappear from and others are hampered by injuries like Morton, Soule, Tulloch ?
This is an observation not a criticism of him but they showed a close up of our sub Reece Hall putting his shirt on. He's so skinny, looks like a lanky 15 year old but he'll be 18 in September.
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A fair assessment SmethDan. On the physicality front where Villa were significantly stronger, it raises the question with me that if our lads are getting to 18/19 and nowhere near it physically, is this why we see so many go into a sort of no-mans land for a couple of years which many fail to reappear from and others are hampered by injuries like Morton, Soule, Tulloch ?
This is an observation not a criticism of him but they showed a close up of our sub Reece Hall putting his shirt on. He's so skinny, looks like a lanky 15 year old but he'll be 18 in September.
Fitness foundations at the academy are something I touched on over on the 'Out on Loan' thread back on January 22nd.......
'There have been question marks raised over the fitness of the first team squad. Our loan players seem to have been hit by a fairly high rate of muscular injuries. With that in mind I'd be genuinely interested to find out what training regime and fitness protocols are in place at the academy in terms of base fitness and weight training regimens etc. Foundations are important'.
....... I'm not suggesting we need to bulk academy players to look like mini Hulks as that would obviously be detrimental, but a few could definitely do with becoming more robust by the time they're looking at moving on from academy level.
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Fitness foundations at the academy are something I touched on over on the 'Out on Loan' thread back on January 22nd.......
'There have been question marks raised over the fitness of the first team squad. Our loan players seem to have been hit by a fairly high rate of muscular injuries. With that in mind I'd be genuinely interested to find out what training regime and fitness protocols are in place at the academy in terms of base fitness and weight training regimens etc. Foundations are important'.
....... I'm not suggesting we need to bulk academy players to look like mini Hulks as that would obviously be detrimental, but a few could definitely do with becoming more robust by the time they're looking at moving on from academy level.
Yeah I think there are question marks around fitness throughout the club. I'm convinced our levels have been way off a lot of other premier league teams this year. Leeds are the best comparison as they had the same sort of promotion + pre season time as we had. Learning from setbacks is quite important and I hope that process will take place.
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Watched nearly all of the game and despite the scoreline quite enjoyed it. Barry is indeed a talent if his head doesn't outgrow the rest of him.
It just seemed to me that a lot of the villa lads seemed two years further forward physically, developmentally and organisationally. It certainly helped them having the outstanding player on the pitch in Barry and of course the in depth knowledge of our better players, but whilst we looked like a team of 16 to 18 year olds, they looked like 18 to 20 year olds.
They deserved the victory. Our passing was poor and our movement a bit hesitant, but there was still some positives. Fellows looked as if he might become a handful, and Ashworth and DaSousa seemed as if they know what to do with a football. Some of the others I have seen play a lot better against opposition as good as anything the vile put on the pitch except for Barry of course. Ingram had one of those games which nothing went right for him, It happens, but he kept trying. Just needs to forget it, get it out of his system and get back to being a decent young wingback.
Our Academy is in a period of change and I expect/hope that improvements will be made, but praise is deserved for some good performances and getting this far in a pretty tough competition.
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On the flip side to those released today I noticed that we've picked up a new guy back in March, someone called Quevin de Castro (think it's said like Kevin?), quick google shows he had a runout with Chelsea earlier in the season against Brentford B and he has played for Bury and a couple of non League teams but not much else.
Anyone heard of him before?
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On the flip side to those released today I noticed that we've picked up a new guy back in March, someone called Quevin de Castro (think it's said like Kevin?), quick google shows he had a runout with Chelsea earlier in the season against Brentford B and he has played for Bury and a couple of non League teams but not much else.
Anyone heard of him before?
Had trials at Arsenal and Chelsea but wasn’t taken on. Ipswich were interested but didn’t take it forwards according to reports.
Sounds a bit like a Diaby situation, low risk chance to take a longer look. He’s nearly 20 though so probably needs to start making some waves next season, even if on loan.
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Cheltenham Town local press reporting that Griffiths looking highly unlikely to return for their League 1 campaign next season.
Means he is either staying as a potential number 1, or we are going to send him to a top league 1 club (Appleton's Lincoln?).
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Cheltenham Town local press reporting that Griffiths looking highly unlikely to return for their League 1 campaign next season.
Means he is either staying as a potential number 1, or we are going to send him to a top league 1 club (Appleton's Lincoln?).
Saw a Lincoln journo the other week mention they had enquired about Griffiths on loan if we had plans for keeping Palmer around the squad next season. Would make sense from their end as they need a keeper, will be challenging for promotion again and have good relationship after the Morton and Palmer loans.
From the bits I’ve seen and heard, Griffiths is rated higher than Palmer, just think this season may come a year or two to early for him?
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Griffiths has been linked with Sheffield Wednesday who released Kieran Westwood recently and with Big Dave being there he could be tempted I guess.
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Griffiths has been linked with Sheffield Wednesday who released Kieran Westwood recently and with Big Dave being there he could be tempted I guess.
Would be happy with that. Moore a perfect father figure for young players like Griffiths. Happy to send a few his way really.
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Wonder if he'd want young Griffiths to play it out from the back.
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I noticed some debate regarding the Academy in the Rekeem Harper thread so I thought I'd bring this back to the top.
I feel we need a plan of action as a club to make a pathway to the first team for our Academy graduates. Having a Head Coach in place long term and a Director of Football (whoever it may be and whatever title they get within our structure) with some joined up thinking. We need to look further than the end of our noses in some areas of the club and this is definitely one.
I believe in the Championship we can make 5 substitutions and that's an option there. I also noticed last season there were 9 players on the bench - this gives us a chance to open up this pathway next season.
They need to be getting a chance on the bench or in the 11 if they're good enough and if they aren't they must go out on loan to develop. We can't have players stagnate in the under 23s once they have appeared to have broke the first team, this happened to all that have moved on this season. You can argue they weren't good enough but there was also a point for all of Leko, Field, Harper, Edwards & Ferguson where we either got fully behind them within WBA, loan them to a level where they "burst on the scene" or let them go. We definitely got behind Ferguson and he left and you could say Edwards given a fair crack but just wasn't good enough.
I'm hoping that this season we see Palmer given an opportunity in goal as well as potential chances for Morton, central midfielder Iroegbunam and maybe even Finn Azaz but Morton and Azaz are in positions where if they don't go out on loan they have to be given a chance as they've been playing a lot at League one & two levels respectively.
Other people's views? It'd be good to get thoughts from people that know the Academy well as I'm basing my opinions on what I've read really.
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In fairness I doubt any of us know the academy that well unless there is someone on the inside.
I'll go back to a point I made after the FA youth cup semi against Villa which was how much more physically advanced Villa looked compared to our lads i.e. they had several lads who looked physically ready for the first team whereas nearly all our team looked way off it. It left me thinking if this is one of the reasons we see lads stagnate when they reach the stage where they need to move into senior football. We've also seen many of them go through prolonged injury plagued spells.
I wonder who looks after this side of it - does each age group have it's own conditioning 'team' or is there one team planning their development through the age groups ? How much is the 1st team head coach involved once they get to the senior age groups especially ?
It's obviously important for the academy to provide the right skills coaching but given how much fitter 1st teams squads are these days (or should be) the physical development side of it can't just be taken for granted anymore.
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Griffiths has been linked with Sheffield Wednesday who released Kieran Westwood recently and with Big Dave being there he could be tempted I guess.
He won’t be going to Wednesday - they already have two academy products as 1/2 in Joe Wildsmith and Cameron Dawson. It’s the one position that doesn’t need sorting.
Callum Morton was linked a month or so ago which seems likely given Moore and the Owls lack of options
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Looks like another one is on his way.
The academy is a joke. As a fan of a club in our position one of the few things I thought I could hope for was seeing some academy / local kids make it to the first team.
We need to pull our fingers out as I am sure we are not without blame, but we (an other clubs) also need to be demanding a greater degree of protection from the FA.
The academy situation ****** me off.
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Strange from Iroegbunam, we have limited centre mids at the moment so would have a huge chance in pre season. Going to Villa, who have a load of players his age in his position. Really strange.
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Strange from Iroegbunam, we have limited centre mids at the moment so would have a huge chance in pre season. Going to Villa, who have a load of players his age in his position. Really strange.
Villa have just won the youth cup, surrounded by ex coaches he’s grown up with and friends he’s probably grown through the academy with. Added to that villa are progressing and investing to be a top 10 team, if he leaves there he goes out on loan to a team like us anyway.
He’s probably also looked at the use of Harper and Field in an area we have struggled in for a while and not really fancied he will get many chances.
He looks a top talent and many within the club rate him highly. Let’s just hope we can keep hold of Rico Richards, Caleb Taylor and the others who were offered pro contracts too.
On a positive, Josh Griffiths has signed a new deal.
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The key now will be in proving to the kids we have left that there will be pathways. As Mister says, the failures with Harper, Field, Leko et al has done us a lot of harm.
That and Luke “****** Dowling.
I do agree with baggie96 that this move strikes me as a misstep for Ireogbunam, he is competing with a ton of very promising Villa kids there and I can’t see them all breaking through and getting chances. For all of the credit Villa get, they haven’t got a great record in recent years of providing lots of opportunities for their kids and with all of the money they are investing in the first team, he will have a job on his hands. I can only guess he had made the decision some time ago and so the arrival of Val was too late to impact his decision. I honestly believe he would have been in the first team plans this year.
It’s frustrating, but at this point post EPPP, it’s more of a shock when we keep a promising youngster than when one leaves. We are the most pillaged academy in English football and the club needs to work out how to stop that happening. Richard Stevens has been in post for nearly now and he needs to pro out why he is failing to sell a vision that keeps them here.
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He’s probably also looked at the use of Harper and Field in an area we have struggled in for a while and not really fancied he will get many chances.
I would agree that is how people tend to think. But logically it doesn't stand up, different people, different time, different situations.
Of what logic or connection is how Field's career went under Pulis and Big Dave, to what lads will experience in the year coming?! But, i agree, this is how people think.
As players who have signed contracts post 17, do Albion get a fee for developing them still? I did read that the Academy did cost Circa £3mill per year. So when a 1st team regular comes through, like Dara, then that's a solid 2-3 years worth of running the Academy justified straight away. Then you've all the smaller fees for people like Field, Harper, Edwards, Etc, so i think the Academy is worth running still, even though people getting nicked is very annoying.
Also.... Now i think about it Morgan went to Man City for a fair amount didn't he? Why was that? Did we sign him to a contract and then he went to Man City? That would be an odd set-up.
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I would agree that is how people tend to think. But logically it doesn't stand up, different people, different time, different situations.
Of what logic or connection is how Field's career went under Pulis and Big Dave, to what lads will experience in the year coming?! But, i agree, this is how people think.
As players who have signed contracts post 17, do Albion get a fee for developing them still? I did read that the Academy did cost Circa £3mill per year. So when a 1st team regular comes through, like Dara, then that's a solid 2-3 years worth of running the Academy justified straight away. Then you've all the smaller fees for people like Field, Harper, Edwards, Etc, so i think the Academy is worth running still, even though people getting nicked is very annoying.
Also.... Now i think about it Morgan went to Man City for a fair amount didn't he? Why was that? Did we sign him to a contract and then he went to Man City? That would be an odd set-up.
Yeah people say shut the academy and it’s not worth it, but in reality it is. Saidos fee kept the academy running for years, add to that the fees received for ferguson, Rogers, Barry (whenever that comes), Harper and the others who have been moved on for small fees.
Add to that like you said, the year we got out of Ferguson, O’Shea has been in the first team for nearly 2 years now. Few of the younger lads looks ready to be involved this year in Morton etc, add to that Palmer and Griffiths have both had outstanding seasons and one of them will probably be number 1 this year, meaning the money from SJ can go elsewhere.
The biggest problem is the divide and relationships Dowling burnt in the academy which led to most of them now being at villa park, they’ve come and cherry picked some of the best talent we have as they have good relationships with the players and are trusted by their family who 9 times out of 10 will be the players agent at that age.
We have to find a way of showing the current crop that the pathway is still there and protecting ourselves from them being poached so often. That’s the nature though as we aren’t a top club at the moment. Hopefully the current academy staff are highlighting the success of the Ferguson’s and the O’Sheas, and also reminding them of the Sinclairs, Dhandas, Izzy Browns that it’s not always greener elsewhere.
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"Joseph Masi
@JosephMasi_Star
Albion youngsters Caleb Taylor, Ethan Ingram, Jamie Andrews, Zac Ashworth, Mo Faal, Tom Fellows, Aurio Teixeira and Jovan Malcolm have all signed pro contracts with the club. It is understood Ingram and Malcolm both received significant offers from elsewhere. #wba"
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I would agree that is how people tend to think. But logically it doesn't stand up, different people, different time, different situations.
Of what logic or connection is how Field's career went under Pulis and Big Dave, to what lads will experience in the year coming?! But, i agree, this is how people think.
As players who have signed contracts post 17, do Albion get a fee for developing them still? I did read that the Academy did cost Circa £3mill per year. So when a 1st team regular comes through, like Dara, then that's a solid 2-3 years worth of running the Academy justified straight away. Then you've all the smaller fees for people like Field, Harper, Edwards, Etc, so i think the Academy is worth running still, even though people getting nicked is very annoying.
Also.... Now i think about it Morgan went to Man City for a fair amount didn't he? Why was that? Did we sign him to a contract and then he went to Man City? That would be an odd set-up.
Yes, Villa would have to pay us compensation.
Villa are a moneybags club who could sell themselves as going places. That shouldn't be the be all and end all for young players but we certainly need to somehow up our game.
I'm not totally sure it's Richard Stevens' remit to sell a vision. It would help if we were still a well run club with a Dan Ashworth knitting things together and behaving in a switched on way.
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/eight-albion-academy-players-sign-professional-deals
Caleb Taylor
Ethan Ingram
Jovan malcom
Tom fellows
Zach ash worth
Jamie Andrews
Mo Faal
Texiera
All signed 3 year deals.
Malcolm and Taylor seem the pick out of the academy crop alongside Richards. Hopefully in and around the first team this pre season to give them a taste.
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"Joseph Masi
@JosephMasi_Star
Albion youngsters Caleb Taylor, Ethan Ingram, Jamie Andrews, Zac Ashworth, Mo Faal, Tom Fellows, Aurio Teixeira and Jovan Malcolm have all signed pro contracts with the club. It is understood Ingram and Malcolm both received significant offers from elsewhere. #wba"
Thanks for some good news. The way I see it Ingram could potentially push for a right wing back spot over the next year or two and Ashworth has left footed centre back potential as well as being able to play LB. Fellows was impressive against Villa in the FA youth cup.
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Thanks for some good news. The way I see it Ingram could potentially push for a right wing back spot over the next year or two and Ashworth has left footed centre back potential as well as being able to play LB. Fellows was impressive against Villa in the FA youth cup.
I think i recall Fellows being excellent and Ingram shocking but was assured it was a one off. Or was it other way aorund?
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Yes, Villa would have to pay us compensation.
How many years would it take to sort that out? There's still no sign of us being compensated for Ferguson.
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I think i recall Fellows being excellent and Ingram shocking but was assured it was a one off. Or was it other way aorund?
Fellows was excellent, Ingram was threatening going forward but less sure defensively (part of the reason I said wing back).
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How many years would it take to sort that out? There's still no sign of us being compensated for Ferguson.
Ferguson and this lad are different cases. Villa will just give us a fixed rate now, something like £300,000. They will likely sell him for £1m if he doesn’t quite make the grade and £20m if he does.
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Fellows is excellent as is Ingram. Malcolm is highly rated. Can definitely see those three along with Taylor in with a chance.
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Fellows was excellent, Ingram was threatening going forward but less sure defensively (part of the reason I said wing back).
Thanks for clarifying that for me
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Disappointed that lad in midfield has gone to the Villa he looked a good player & think he could have had a part to play this year.
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We need to pull our fingers out as I am sure we are not without blame, but we (an other clubs) also need to be demanding a greater degree of protection from the FA.
The academy situation ****** me off.
That's the way it goes within the chain.
None of us moan when we're robbing other academies of their star products.
There is only person to blame for the decimation of our academy and it is not the FA
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That's the way it goes within the chain.
None of us moan when we're robbing other academies of their star products.
There is only person to blame for the decimation of our academy and it is not the FA
The only thing is, we don’t seem to take too many kids from other academies, atleast not from what I can see. Apart from Shotton, I can’t see anyone else we have taken that hadn’t been released already. We need to get more aggressive to make up for the countless losses.
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Sheer insanity to allow Dowling to half destroy what we had built over time.
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Fellows is excellent as is Ingram. Malcolm is highly rated. Can definitely see those three along with Taylor in with a chance.
Fellows is highly thought of in the academy and they reckon he has a big future as a winger isn’t he?
I don’t watch the academy a lot anymore but I always hear Ingram, Malcolm and Taylor’s names being mentioned. Adding Richards and Fellows to that hopefully they get a run out and chance to impress in pre season, and a couple of them can break into the squad.
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Insanity to keep him here for so long. The only reason he has gone is because he fell out with the board over Wilder.
Get an innovator in with a clear philosophy, not just an old fashioned English football guy like Dowling or Gourlay.
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I dont claim to be ITK, but through work i do have quite a bit to do with academies.
Though i havent worked with Albion, i have most of the other local clubs and of course i always ask about our lot and the general opinion has been that our academy was too comfortable under the previous regime.
Apparently they were all top blokes and very good coaches but the end result of getting players into the first team wasnt happening and a lot was they were too comfortable.
Pulis raised the issue when he was manager, he gave a few lads a runout for a taster (against Liverpool) i think with a view to them returning for preseason with hunger to step up and they didnt.
I think its well known Fletcher and Evans had also raised concerns and supposedly the Albion core (Foster, Brunt, Mozza, Olsson and Gmac) had all spoke to the hierachy to raise their concerns that the youngsters needed to earn their status a bit more.
By all accounts, the likes of Field, Leko, Edwards and Harper are all really good lads, no trouble, very nice young men but they werent pushing enough to be given chances, they were training with the first team but young players tend to be desperate to impress and really push the established players but they didnt, instead they just became another professional but they didnt play at the end of it.
One bloke told me Albion really pride themselves on having mainly local talent, he said that is a pro and a con, he said most of the lads have been together a few years at least, they are excellent at youth level, get a contract but are in their comfort zone. No coincidence the one who has made it with us is O'Shea who came from ireland and went on loan to the non league and then a season with Exeter at a young age and then broke through with us, he was constantly being taken out his comfort zone.
I was told Leko was given a ridiculous contract as were desperate for the academy to be seen in a good light with Saido having had a colourful past even before he broke into the team with us, the problem was it was crazy money and then the other young players on the edge of the first team all wanted the same wages as him because he didnt do anything once he got in.
I was told in professional terms the first pro contract is the easy one, its the second wish is the hardest, because these lads sign pro contracts and are on good money for their age, they have a nice lifestyle, train a few hours a day with long time mates, play once a week for the under 23's which is no more than friendly pace.
The contracts we gave supposedly set these lads for life if they are sensible, and the hunger was just not there, i think its telling that no manager from Pulis, Pardew, Moore, Shan, Bilic, Allardyce ever used them reguarly, they are all different types of manager but despite glimpses from each of the crop and maybe they could of had more of a chance, i have never thought they 100% deserved it or that we are missing out on much with them leaving.
Ferguson was an exception as Bilic handpicked him, out that crop there were Soule, Clayton Phillips, Harmon, Brown who have either being released or hit a wall at Albion, Tulloch supposedly has a lot of potential but we want him out playing so he doesnt follow the same path of many of our young pro's.
Dowling had many faults but most people working at that level at other clubs think he did the right thing shaking it up and getting Richard Stevens in (I have worked with him at Blues and Coventry and he is quality) so time will tell.
As for Villa, there will be a lot more pressure on the coaches and lads going there, they are spending a lot but they also expect a lot, Christian Purslow said recently that any academy player not pushing for the first team at 21/22 isnt going to make it at Villa as most lads at that age will of been pro's for 3-4 years and have had enough time to kick on, and he said they will just accept there will be the odd one who come back to haunt them, so any youngsters going there are going to have be really be under pressure, sink or swim time.
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Yes Albion 79 - We should be careful hanging too much on Dowling regrading the academy. Things were only half working before and Harrison and co. are very likely on twice the money with Villa that they will have been on with us.
Could say Dowling made some changes that were necessary and in Richard Stevens got a highly rated academy manager to take over.
It was Ashworth along with Harrison and co who hatched this strategy of only picking the local talent at very young ages and giving them a rounded development. Ashworth did bring George Thorne with him from Cambridge I think.
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We apparently got £4m for Morgan Rogers from Man City and the deal could eventually be worth £8m (but unlikely). I would hope we'd be negotiating a similar deal for Ireogbunam.
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Iroegbunam was out of contract. It will be the very small set fees as dictated by the EPPP.
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Iroegbunam was out of contract. It will be the very small set fees as dictated by the EPPP.
So was Morgan Rogers though. Man City agreed that fee ahead of the mandated compensation amount. I think Iroegbunam is older now than Rogers was then so not sure how that affects the compensation.
We are still due to get compensation for Ferguson from Palace even though he'd already signed and completed one pro contract with us.
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Yes Albion 79 - We should be careful hanging too much on Dowling regrading the academy. Things were only half working before and Harrison and co. are very likely on twice the money with Villa that they will have been on with us.
Could say Dowling made some changes that were necessary and in Richard Stevens got a highly rated academy manager to take over.
It was Ashworth along with Harrison and co who hatched this strategy of only picking the local talent at very young ages and giving them a rounded development. Ashworth did bring George Thorne with him from Cambridge I think.
he brought Liam O’Neil too, can’t remember if there were any more.
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I dont claim to be ITK, but through work i do have quite a bit to do with academies.
Though i havent worked with Albion, i have most of the other local clubs and of course i always ask about our lot and the general opinion has been that our academy was too comfortable under the previous regime.
Apparently they were all top blokes and very good coaches but the end result of getting players into the first team wasnt happening and a lot was they were too comfortable.
Pulis raised the issue when he was manager, he gave a few lads a runout for a taster (against Liverpool) i think with a view to them returning for preseason with hunger to step up and they didnt.
I think its well known Fletcher and Evans had also raised concerns and supposedly the Albion core (Foster, Brunt, Mozza, Olsson and Gmac) had all spoke to the hierachy to raise their concerns that the youngsters needed to earn their status a bit more.
By all accounts, the likes of Field, Leko, Edwards and Harper are all really good lads, no trouble, very nice young men but they werent pushing enough to be given chances, they were training with the first team but young players tend to be desperate to impress and really push the established players but they didnt, instead they just became another professional but they didnt play at the end of it.
One bloke told me Albion really pride themselves on having mainly local talent, he said that is a pro and a con, he said most of the lads have been together a few years at least, they are excellent at youth level, get a contract but are in their comfort zone. No coincidence the one who has made it with us is O'Shea who came from ireland and went on loan to the non league and then a season with Exeter at a young age and then broke through with us, he was constantly being taken out his comfort zone.
I was told Leko was given a ridiculous contract as were desperate for the academy to be seen in a good light with Saido having had a colourful past even before he broke into the team with us, the problem was it was crazy money and then the other young players on the edge of the first team all wanted the same wages as him because he didnt do anything once he got in.
I was told in professional terms the first pro contract is the easy one, its the second wish is the hardest, because these lads sign pro contracts and are on good money for their age, they have a nice lifestyle, train a few hours a day with long time mates, play once a week for the under 23's which is no more than friendly pace.
The contracts we gave supposedly set these lads for life if they are sensible, and the hunger was just not there, i think its telling that no manager from Pulis, Pardew, Moore, Shan, Bilic, Allardyce ever used them reguarly, they are all different types of manager but despite glimpses from each of the crop and maybe they could of had more of a chance, i have never thought they 100% deserved it or that we are missing out on much with them leaving.
Ferguson was an exception as Bilic handpicked him, out that crop there were Soule, Clayton Phillips, Harmon, Brown who have either being released or hit a wall at Albion, Tulloch supposedly has a lot of potential but we want him out playing so he doesnt follow the same path of many of our young pro's.
Dowling had many faults but most people working at that level at other clubs think he did the right thing shaking it up and getting Richard Stevens in (I have worked with him at Blues and Coventry and he is quality) so time will tell.
As for Villa, there will be a lot more pressure on the coaches and lads going there, they are spending a lot but they also expect a lot, Christian Purslow said recently that any academy player not pushing for the first team at 21/22 isnt going to make it at Villa as most lads at that age will of been pro's for 3-4 years and have had enough time to kick on, and he said they will just accept there will be the odd one who come back to haunt them, so any youngsters going there are going to have be really be under pressure, sink or swim time.
Very interesting thanks, ties into something I mentioned previously that though we produce plenty of England youth internationals and such, really almost none of them look any better by the age of 21 than they were at 16/17. Clearly for the odd individual this might be a individual problem but with us it seemed systematic. You'd really struggle to say the likes of Field, Harper, Leko and Edwards for example were any better as players than in their first introductions to the first team.
All well and good producing a lot of talented 16 and 17 year olds but not much use if they don't take the next steps.
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So was Morgan Rogers though. Man City agreed that fee ahead of the mandated compensation amount. I think Iroegbunam is older now than Rogers was then so not sure how that affects the compensation.
We are still due to get compensation for Ferguson from Palace even though he'd already signed and completed one pro contract with us.
He was only 16, I believe he would have signed terms the year before which would have lasted until he was 18, like Iroegbunam would have a few years ago.
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Very interesting thanks, ties into something I mentioned previously that though we produce plenty of England youth internationals and such, really almost none of them look any better by the age of 21 than they were at 16/17. Clearly for the odd individual this might be a individual problem but with us it seemed systematic. You'd really struggle to say the likes of Field, Harper, Leko and Edwards for example were any better as players than in their first introductions to the first team.
All well and good producing a lot of talented 16 and 17 year olds but not much use if they don't take the next steps.
I think there is a big problem with u23 squads in general, only a few seem to make it to first teams across the Premier League and top Championship clubs.
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https://twitter.com/WBAReport/status/1412436910287503363
WBA Report
@WBAReport
Crystal Palace are in talks to sign ex-Albion youngster Morgan Rogers from Manchester City for around £7M.
A sell-on clause was included when City signed him in 2019, so #WBA are set to receive a “significant figure†from the deal (if it goes through). [@MailSport
]
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As with most issues in football, it all comes down to money and the system in which we are forced to operate.
There should be a simple and robust process in place that not only protects academies of smaller clubs but, in fact, incentivises them to produce talent, even if the likelihood is that they will be picked off by the usual suspects. All that takes is ensuring a fair price.
Instead, as with everything else, it is geared towards the bigger clubs and makes it a "shooting fish in a barrel" scenario, whereby they can afford to just keep taking the kids from other clubs with barely any financial risk.
It's ok saying we should be offering better contracts but we don't have the resources to compete for a young talent that is still unknown.
My view is that we have a very good Academy, if we didn't we wouldn't keep getting pillaged. With better systems in place it would be a very lucrative element to our business, as is, it's just a very cheap market place for the rich and there's virtually nothing we can do about it.
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Very interesting thanks, ties into something I mentioned previously that though we produce plenty of England youth internationals and such, really almost none of them look any better by the age of 21 than they were at 16/17. Clearly for the odd individual this might be a individual problem but with us it seemed systematic. You'd really struggle to say the likes of Field, Harper, Leko and Edwards for example were any better as players than in their first introductions to the first team.
All well and good producing a lot of talented 16 and 17 year olds but not much use if they don't take the next steps.
Isn't that the same for academies of all similar sized clubs though? I can't think of many that outperform us in terms of bringing players through.
If you factor in that most academy players, across the board, fall short, then any academy product, who goes on to have any sort of professional career, should be considered a success. In that context, I would say we more than hold our own.
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Norwich, Southampton, Palace, Brighton, QPR etc would all disagree, they all seem to be able to bring through and keep their youngsters.
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Very interesting thanks, ties into something I mentioned previously that though we produce plenty of England youth internationals and such, really almost none of them look any better by the age of 21 than they were at 16/17. Clearly for the odd individual this might be a individual problem but with us it seemed systematic. You'd really struggle to say the likes of Field, Harper, Leko and Edwards for example were any better as players than in their first introductions to the first team.
All well and good producing a lot of talented 16 and 17 year olds but not much use if they don't take the next steps.
We don't seem to be that great at that transition. I'm hoping that with the new sports science bloke from Barnsley and Ismael's input we may be better at the physical conditioning side of it - they need to be ready physically for 'men's' football.
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Interesting read that Albion79, thanks for posting it.
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Norwich, Southampton, Palace, Brighton, QPR etc would all disagree, they all seem to be able to bring through and keep their youngsters.
Norwich are the only true comparison though and their overall trajectory is almost identical to ours.
Saints and Palace are established prem clubs who often raid smaller clubs, Brighton are massively funded and QPR are miles behind us.
I don't really know the true comparisons though, in terms of how many homegrown players featured last season, so I may be wrong.
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Excellent post by 79, thank you mate (on pg83 if you've missed it).
I am confused as to how we got a fair fee for Morgan and may not for Tim? What's the difference there?
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Excellent post by 79, thank you mate (on pg83 if you've missed it).
I am confused as to how we got a fair fee for Morgan and may not for Tim? What's the difference there?
Rodgers was 16 and had only signed academy scholarship terms the year before, meaning he had another year on his deal. Ireogbunum has been with the academy full time for 2 years and was out of his contract terms, meaning he was free to move elsewhere.
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Rodgers was 16 and had only signed academy scholarship terms the year before, meaning he had another year on his deal. Ireogbunum has been with the academy full time for 2 years and was out of his contract terms, meaning he was free to move elsewhere.
Thank you mate. So Man City actually acted Honourably in this instance?
Is Tim literally "free" to move, or do we get a development fee as we've offered him a contract?
Cheers mate
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Let's consider Jadon Sancho 21 soon to be bought by Man United for a staggering £85m. Sancho started life on the books of Watford before he was poached by Man City at the age of 14. He then moved to Dortmund on a free (sorry Citeh what goes round comes round eh.) Four years on he has 20 England caps and 137 senior appearances.
Does anybody think that outcome happens if he stays at Man City? The bigger issue is it probably doesn't happen if he stays at Watford either. English youth football is a sink hole into which talent disappears and the constant squad churn at First team level and the bolting of ready made talent to hit the next short term target.
In this context Albion are about the same as everybody else, vulnerable to being poached from overly dependent on the loan system for doing the heavy lifting on the development process and pretty hopeless at bridging the gap between academy and first team.
Last season Villa had two youth team players with 1000 plus minutes in the Premier League (Grealish and Callum Robinson) and so did we (O'Shea and Tyler Roberts) we are rubbish and so are Villa.
It is tempting to lay the blame for losing players at Dowling's door but I think the issue runs deeper. Unless we can offer a genuine pathway to the first team then the players aren't sacrificing anything by opting to take the money on offer in the short term.
In 2019 Kyle Edwards, Sam Field, Grady Diangana and Trevoh Chalobah at the age of 19/20 all played for England Under 20's. The irony is that all could be playing Championship football this season. I absolutely guarantee Chalobah will have earned more to this point in his career and is no worse off in terms of career development than the other 3. Unfortunately the mugs in this game are the players that turn down lucrative offers from elsewhere.
Significant change is not going to happen in academy it will only happen when we have a first team coach who wants to develop young talent and the club has a culture that supports it. Maybe we have taken the first tentative steps in the last few weeks.
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Thank you mate. So Man City actually acted Honourably in this instance?
Is Tim literally "free" to move, or do we get a development fee as we've offered him a contract?
Cheers mate
It will be a small amount as designated by the EPPP. Less than half a million I think.
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It will be a small amount as designated by the EPPP. Less than half a million I think.
So if that is correct then I assume that's the amount we would get for Ferguson...or it may be more due to the number of 1st team appearances he made for us.
Stating the obvious, it's a derisory amount and it needs to be more to compensate the club that produces the player.
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Decent research from Stan, agree that ultimately we need to create the pathways to prove to players were are worth staying with.
All I'll say on the Villa front is that Iroegbunam will be competing with Carney Chukwuemka, Aaron Ramsey, Jacob Ramsey and Arian Raikhy and that's just their highly rated central midfielders - they also have a ton of good academy defenders and strikers and they won't be giving them all game time at the same time. He has his work cut out and the odds are stacked against him.
This move likely had as much to do with local football politics as it does his undoubted talent.
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So if that is correct then I assume that's the amount we would get for Ferguson...or it may be more due to the number of 1st team appearances he made for us.
Stating the obvious, it's a derisory amount and it needs to be more to compensate the club that produces the player.
Ferguson had already signed a pro contract and we had accepted an offer of £11m for him muddied the waters.
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Let's consider Jadon Sancho 21 soon to be bought by Man United for a staggering £85m. Sancho started life on the books of Watford before he was poached by Man City at the age of 14. He then moved to Dortmund on a free (sorry Citeh what goes round comes round eh.) Four years on he has 20 England caps and 137 senior appearances.
Does anybody think that outcome happens if he stays at Man City? The bigger issue is it probably doesn't happen if he stays at Watford either. English youth football is a sink hole into which talent disappears and the constant squad churn at First team level and the bolting of ready made talent to hit the next short term target.
In this context Albion are about the same as everybody else, vulnerable to being poached from overly dependent on the loan system for doing the heavy lifting on the development process and pretty hopeless at bridging the gap between academy and first team.
Last season Villa had two youth team players with 1000 plus minutes in the Premier League (Grealish and Callum Robinson) and so did we (O'Shea and Tyler Roberts) we are rubbish and so are Villa.
It is tempting to lay the blame for losing players at Dowling's door but I think the issue runs deeper. Unless we can offer a genuine pathway to the first team then the players aren't sacrificing anything by opting to take the money on offer in the short term.
In 2019 Kyle Edwards, Sam Field, Grady Diangana and Trevoh Chalobah at the age of 19/20 all played for England Under 20's. The irony is that all could be playing Championship football this season. I absolutely guarantee Chalobah will have earned more to this point in his career and is no worse off in terms of career development than the other 3. Unfortunately the mugs in this game are the players that turn down lucrative offers from elsewhere.
Significant change is not going to happen in academy it will only happen when we have a first team coach who wants to develop young talent and the club has a culture that supports it. Maybe we have taken the first tentative steps in the last few weeks.
Jadon Sancho is a good example, I watched Rios YouTube podcast the other day and they were talking about Sancho and how he refused the contract at city as he believed he was ready for first team football so went and signed for Dortmund, carved out a good career.
Another example is Reiss Nelson, went out on loan in Germany and did well and earnt good reviews, comes back to Arsenal and hardly makes an appearance last year, could have been another Sancho if he had gone permanently.
Youngsters at our club, bias or not they will always move to the big club, you get your occasional loyal ones but it’s rare. Morgan Rogers, Izzy Brown and Dhanda are prime examples, get a good signing on fee and contract at a young age which sets you up, if it doesn’t pan out at the big team then you move to a championship team anyway but better off financially. Or stay at wba and you might get a chance or you might end up like Leko, Harper, Field and get sold to a lower league championship team with less money in your bank.
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Thank you mate. So Man City actually acted Honourably in this instance?
Is Tim literally "free" to move, or do we get a development fee as we've offered him a contract?
Cheers mate
This seems to have been a confusing one. Rogers was a month away from being 17 and we offered him a senior contract. Baggies is saying the he still had another year left on the scholarship terms. Man City wanted him. I assume we could have kept him under the scholarship contract (which is why Man City offered that amount) but decided to cash in given that he was turning down the senior contract that was on the table.
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Let's consider Jadon Sancho 21 soon to be bought by Man United for a staggering £85m. Sancho started life on the books of Watford before he was poached by Man City at the age of 14. He then moved to Dortmund on a free (sorry Citeh what goes round comes round eh.) Four years on he has 20 England caps and 137 senior appearances.
Does anybody think that outcome happens if he stays at Man City? The bigger issue is it probably doesn't happen if he stays at Watford either. English youth football is a sink hole into which talent disappears and the constant squad churn at First team level and the bolting of ready made talent to hit the next short term target.
In this context Albion are about the same as everybody else, vulnerable to being poached from overly dependent on the loan system for doing the heavy lifting on the development process and pretty hopeless at bridging the gap between academy and first team.
Last season Villa had two youth team players with 1000 plus minutes in the Premier League (Grealish and Callum Robinson) and so did we (O'Shea and Tyler Roberts) we are rubbish and so are Villa.
It is tempting to lay the blame for losing players at Dowling's door but I think the issue runs deeper. Unless we can offer a genuine pathway to the first team then the players aren't sacrificing anything by opting to take the money on offer in the short term.
In 2019 Kyle Edwards, Sam Field, Grady Diangana and Trevoh Chalobah at the age of 19/20 all played for England Under 20's. The irony is that all could be playing Championship football this season. I absolutely guarantee Chalobah will have earned more to this point in his career and is no worse off in terms of career development than the other 3. Unfortunately the mugs in this game are the players that turn down lucrative offers from elsewhere.
Significant change is not going to happen in academy it will only happen when we have a first team coach who wants to develop young talent and the club has a culture that supports it. Maybe we have taken the first tentative steps in the last few weeks.
Dortmund paid around £10m for Sancho and City have a big sell on percentage. That means City have taken a very talented 15 year old, had him for 2 years and probably ended up making £20m. I wonder how much Watford made? Besides that I take your point.
The FA do need to protect academies more. You can’t force people to sign contracts, but you can regulate the clubs so it becomes less attractive / more costly to poach.
In part this occasion seems like we miss judged the situation again. I appreciate he may have come on leaps in the past 12 months but we could have tied him down for three years 12 months ago.
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The problem with our club isn't breeding talent, it's using it correctly. Look at Raheem Harper for instance. After making his debut 4 seasons ago he barely kicked a ball and had half a season at Birmingham City.
You can't judge a player on that. He could be great or awful but we'll never know. Why wasn't he loaned out the season before, or the season before that? Similar can be said with Leko and loads of other players over the years.
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The problem with our club isn't breeding talent, it's using it correctly. Look at Raheem Harper for instance. After making his debut 4 seasons ago he barely kicked a ball and had half a season at Birmingham City.
You can't judge a player on that. He could be great or awful but we'll never know. Why wasn't he loaned out the season before, or the season before that? Similar can be said with Leko and loads of other players over the years.
It's a good point, Bilić begged Rekeem not to join Celtic then picked Livermore all season.
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We didn't loan Harper, Field etc. out mainly because they were providing the necessary squad cover for the likes of Barry, Brunt, Morrison. Only when Allardyce brought in Yokuslu and AMN to join Gallagher did we have the sort of numbers that allowed us to loan him/them out. Both Harper and Field should have seen more action with us though.
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Firstly regarding the financial side of the academy it is not just the fees that we get for players that are sold i.e. Saido but the majority if not all of the loans we send out will include fees to be paid to us so that also helps fund the academy.
Secondly we will get £330k for our mate Tim when he goes to the seals but to be fair if someone had offered me £330k for him six months ago I would have snatched their hands off as the majority of 16/17 year olds never get near the first team of where they goto and some will never make it at any decent level, I am definitely not losing any sleep over our mate Tim!!
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We didn't loan Harper, Field etc. out mainly because they were providing the necessary squad cover for the likes of Barry, Brunt, Morrison. Only when Allardyce brought in Yokuslu and AMN to join Gallagher did we have the sort of numbers that allowed us to loan him/them out. Both Harper and Field should have seen more action with us though.
I’d not necessarily agree with that. There have been times in the last 4 years where they have provided cover certainly, but you can go through this thread and find a few times where myself and a few others have been shouting about getting Harper, Leko and Field out on loan and subsequently they have stayed as unused reserves. I look back to Moore’s season as one example, it was clear in the summer that Field, Harper and Leko were not in his plans and yet we kept all 3. They didn’t feature in a league game until 2019 - even as a sub, only getting a couple of league cup games. If you aren’t even getting the occasional appearance from the bench, you aren’t providing genuine cover. We just weren’t brave enough to send them out on loan, because the club has been paralysed by short term thinking ever since Jeremy Peace realised he hadn’t a clue how to replace Dan Ashworth.
Now you could argue the loan system isn’t worthwhile - Standaman has eloquently argued against it and Connor Rowden who is a bit of an authority of British academy football also feels they have little value, but I look at the players who have broken through to our first team and most seem to have benefitted from loan moves (Berahino, O’Shea, Edwards, with Palmer and Griffiths waiting in the wings).
There was no reason why one of Field or Harper couldn’t have had a year out on loan in the 2018/2019 season - I’d argue both Field and Leko could have atleast.
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Firstly regarding the financial side of the academy it is not just the fees that we get for players that are sold i.e. Saido but the majority if not all of the loans we send out will include fees to be paid to us so that also helps fund the academy.
Secondly we will get £330k for our mate Tim when he goes to the seals but to be fair if someone had offered me £330k for him six months ago I would have snatched their hands off as the majority of 16/17 year olds never get near the first team of where they goto and some will never make it at any decent level, I am definitely not losing any sleep over our mate Tim!!
I think part of my concern is not just losing our academy player of the year for 2020/21, or the fact that we have lost our best academy player year on year for what seems like the last 7 years, but it feels like Villa are now using their financial might to try to not just improve their own academy, but actively weaken ours as their direct rival.
I’m not sure if it was Mark Harrison or Steve Hopcroft who gave an interview to the local media upon moving to the Villa 2 years ago, but they basically said Albion have been taking players from traditional Villa areas for the last decade and this should never have been allowed to happen. His aim was to ensure this would be a thing of the past. Villa have now got planning permission to build a second academy in the Aston area, to attract Brummie kids who are unable to travel all the way to Tamworth.
All of these moves point to the fact Villa are trying to win a patch war against Albion - I doubt North or West Birmingham is territory Blues or Wolves would be interested in anyway so we are clearly the club they are looking to cut off by spending millions on this new campus.
I view the Tim Ireogbunam, Arian Raikhy and Harry Whitwell moves (the under 16 kid who Villa took last month) as being an extension of this. Villa are making aggressive moves to make them the only party in town. If they can take kids away from us, it weakens our ability to bring many through, which in turn means they can tell the parents of perspective academy kids that we are not a viable option.
My worry is that with us being fairly chaotic behind the scenes at the moment, we don’t have enough footballing knowledge to be agile on our feet and to find ways to counter act Villa’s moves. They are better run and have more money - there is a danger they could do a lot of damage to our prospects in the next few years.
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I think part of my concern is not just losing our academy player of the year for 2020/21, or the fact that we have lost our best academy player year on year for what seems like the last 7 years, but it feels like Villa are now using their financial might to try to not just improve their own academy, but actively weaken ours as their direct rival.
I’m not sure if it was Mark Harrison or Steve Hopcroft who gave an interview to the local media upon moving to the Villa 2 years ago, but they basically said Albion have been taking players from traditional Villa areas for the last decade and this should never have been allowed to happen. His aim was to ensure this would be a thing of the past. Villa have now got planning permission to build a second academy in the Aston area, to attract Brummie kids who are unable to travel all the way to Tamworth.
All of these moves point to the fact Villa are trying to win a patch war against Albion - I doubt North or West Birmingham is territory Blues or Wolves would be interested in anyway so we are clearly the club they are looking to cut off by spending millions on this new campus.
I view the Tim Ireogbunam, Arian Raikhy and Harry Whitwell moves (the under 16 kid who Villa took last month) as being an extension of this. Villa are making aggressive moves to make them the only party in town. If they can take kids away from us, it weakens our ability to bring many through, which in turn means they can tell the parents of perspective academy kids that we are not a viable option.
My worry is that with us being fairly chaotic behind the scenes at the moment, we don’t have enough footballing knowledge to be agile on our feet and to find ways to counter act Villa’s moves. They are better run and have more money - there is a danger they could do a lot of damage to our prospects in the next few years.
Thanks for the detailed post.
For me, it isn't anything to lose sleep over, insofar as you don't miss what you've never had, our academy hasn't produced anything of note besides Berahino. In this respect Villa aren't really damaging our chances/prospects at senior club level in any meaningful way.
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I view the Tim Ireogbunam, Arian Raikhy and Harry Whitwell moves (the under 16 kid who Villa took last month)
That's interesting. Where was this reported please?
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I think part of my concern is not just losing our academy player of the year for 2020/21, or the fact that we have lost our best academy player year on year for what seems like the last 7 years, but it feels like Villa are now using their financial might to try to not just improve their own academy, but actively weaken ours as their direct rival.
I’m not sure if it was Mark Harrison or Steve Hopcroft who gave an interview to the local media upon moving to the Villa 2 years ago, but they basically said Albion have been taking players from traditional Villa areas for the last decade and this should never have been allowed to happen. His aim was to ensure this would be a thing of the past. Villa have now got planning permission to build a second academy in the Aston area, to attract Brummie kids who are unable to travel all the way to Tamworth.
All of these moves point to the fact Villa are trying to win a patch war against Albion - I doubt North or West Birmingham is territory Blues or Wolves would be interested in anyway so we are clearly the club they are looking to cut off by spending millions on this new campus.
I view the Tim Ireogbunam, Arian Raikhy and Harry Whitwell moves (the under 16 kid who Villa took last month) as being an extension of this. Villa are making aggressive moves to make them the only party in town. If they can take kids away from us, it weakens our ability to bring many through, which in turn means they can tell the parents of perspective academy kids that we are not a viable option.
My worry is that with us being fairly chaotic behind the scenes at the moment, we don’t have enough footballing knowledge to be agile on our feet and to find ways to counter act Villa’s moves. They are better run and have more money - there is a danger they could do a lot of damage to our prospects in the next few years.
Absolutely bang on the money. I would say that though because you've echoed many of my own thoughts. As for the interview it was Harrison. I remember reading it and thinking what an arrogant unmentioned word for self gratification he 'came' across as.
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Pretty sure it was Whitwell, but could be wrong. Was reported about 2 months ago either in the E&S or the B'ham mail that Villa had made a move for one of our youngsters, a midfielder who was an England youth international. At the time they didn't confirm if he was going but once a story like that hits the papers, history tells us it's because the move is in the final stages.
Anyway, the Albion's under 18 page does not feature Whitwell, while is does however feature his England U 16 compatriot Lino Sousa, which makes it look like he has indeed gone.
Yesterday's Evening Mail piece also confirms that they took Chisom Afoka last year as well. They are near enough stripping out anyone with promise that they can get, with the numbers going far beyond normal.
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Pretty sure it was Whitwell,
Harry Williams.
I've seen him play, poor, really cant see him making it.
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Just another reason to despise that football club.
Frustrating that although we have lost such promising players we would not have given them a pathway into the first team anyway.
The academy might serve some purpose when we're in the championship but it is largely redundant if we're promoted as our obsession is on on securing the TV monies and not providing a pathway for our academy graduates.
If our intentions were otherwise then Field and Harper should have received more game time than they did over the last five years.
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Harry Williams.
I've seen him play, poor, really cant see him making it.
Williams is a defender and was released instead of being poached (a bit like Brad Young)
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Williams is a defender and was released instead of being poached (a bit like Brad Young)
Wrong bloke!
OK fair enough.
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I recall a story about Fenton Heard being a target, but not Harry Whitwell. The only reason I asked is Harry is in my lad's age group, just going in to U16s this season. Not saying Villa wouldn't be after him of course, he's a very good player, just I would have expected to have heard something. I will investigate.
Incidentally, Baggies took him from Oxford Utd at U11.
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I recall a story about Fenton Heard being a target, but not Harry Whitwell. The only reason I asked is Harry is in my lad's age group, just going in to U16s this season. Not saying Villa wouldn't be after him of course, he's a very good player, just I would have expected to have heard something. I will investigate.
Incidentally, Baggies took him from Oxford Utd at U11.
In fairness, it could be Fenton Heard. I can't find the article from a few months ago but I know Villa had moved foe another U16 lad with England caps, and Whitwell was in the last U16 side with Sousa, but only Sousa now appears on the U18's website page.
See if you can find out and let us know.
Who's your son? Totally understand if you don't want to say.
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footballinsider247.com/sources-aston-villa-set-sights-on-luring-rising-star-heard-from-west-brom/%3famp
Found it, cheers Blandy, it is Heard.
Thay does beg the question where Whitwell has gone then
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.footballinsider247.com/sources-aston-villa-set-sights-on-luring-rising-star-heard-from-west-brom/%3famp
Found it, cheers Blandy, it is Heard.
Thay does beg the question where Whitwell has gone then
To the best of my current knowledge, he hasn't gone anywhere (nor has Fenton as far as I'm aware).
You have to be a bit careful about age groups at International level, as they're done on calendar year whilst UK academies work on school year.
Lino & Harry are in the 2005 group, but Lino has a birthday in January so at Academy level he was U16 last season, whereas Harry is October I think so was U15.
So Lino has moved into the U18 group for the coming season, whereas Harry is just moving into U16 so you wouldn't necessarily expect to see his name on the website. He may play a bit of 18s to be fair, he generally has played up an age band occasionally.
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That does make more sense. It did seem strange that Albion had managed to get their under 18’s page updated so quickly when usually it takes them until December.
I hope we have kept both really. Feels like we have been haemorrhaging players of late.
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I think part of my concern is not just losing our academy player of the year for 2020/21, or the fact that we have lost our best academy player year on year for what seems like the last 7 years, but it feels like Villa are now using their financial might to try to not just improve their own academy, but actively weaken ours as their direct rival.
I’m not sure if it was Mark Harrison or Steve Hopcroft who gave an interview to the local media upon moving to the Villa 2 years ago, but they basically said Albion have been taking players from traditional Villa areas for the last decade and this should never have been allowed to happen. His aim was to ensure this would be a thing of the past. Villa have now got planning permission to build a second academy in the Aston area, to attract Brummie kids who are unable to travel all the way to Tamworth.
All of these moves point to the fact Villa are trying to win a patch war against Albion - I doubt North or West Birmingham is territory Blues or Wolves would be interested in anyway so we are clearly the club they are looking to cut off by spending millions on this new campus.
I view the Tim Ireogbunam, Arian Raikhy and Harry Whitwell moves (the under 16 kid who Villa took last month) as being an extension of this. Villa are making aggressive moves to make them the only party in town. If they can take kids away from us, it weakens our ability to bring many through, which in turn means they can tell the parents of perspective academy kids that we are not a viable option.
My worry is that with us being fairly chaotic behind the scenes at the moment, we don’t have enough footballing knowledge to be agile on our feet and to find ways to counter act Villa’s moves. They are better run and have more money - there is a danger they could do a lot of damage to our prospects in the next few years.
If, according to Mark Harrison, we have been taking young players from traditional Villa areas, does that mean Villa don't try to sign up players from more Black Country or North Worcs. areas? Fact is they will try to sign up the best youth players irrespective of where they come from. Its also bizarre coming from Harrison, when he was heading up our Academy at the time.
I can see there may be an argument against young kids travelling long distances to train every day. However, the Hawthorns is as easy to get to from Aston and north west Birmingham as from many parts of the Black Country, so we are fully entitled to compete for kids where we can. Its vital we continue to invest in the quality of the Academy, even if Villa have a financial headstart.
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Just another reason to despise that football club......
The upside to this would be I'd get to despise them even more than I already do. If only I could.......
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Confirmation in the E&S that Is all is looking to use academy players this pre season with an eye on them being first team regulars. He has been really impressed by 3 or 4 of them and seeing as we have seen pictures of Rico Richards training with the first team, I’d hazard a guess he will be one of them. Certainly suits Ismael’s style.
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Do we know what the rule is for subs next season, is it back to 7 on the bench and three changes?
Edit - it appears that 5 subs will be allowed until December 31st 2022. That surely has to help us next season if we want to get academy players minutes.
I wonder if another season and half of 5 subs the EFL will ever change back.
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Confirmation in the E&S that Is all is looking to use academy players this pre season with an eye on them being first team regulars. He has been really impressed by 3 or 4 of them and seeing as we have seen pictures of Rico Richards training with the first team, I’d hazard a guess he will be one of them. Certainly suits Ismael’s style.
this should of being happening years ago especially for a club who are reluctant to spend significant money in transfer market usually in bottom 3 in spend when in prem. Can't blame young players leaving when there seems to be no entry to first team squad.
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If, according to Mark Harrison, we have been taking young players from traditional Villa areas, does that mean Villa don't try to sign up players from more Black Country or North Worcs. areas? Fact is they will try to sign up the best youth players irrespective of where they come from. Its also bizarre coming from Harrison, when he was heading up our Academy at the time.
I can see there may be an argument against young kids travelling long distances to train every day. However, the Hawthorns is as easy to get to from Aston and north west Birmingham as from many parts of the Black Country, so we are fully entitled to compete for kids where we can. Its vital we continue to invest in the quality of the Academy, even if Villa have a financial headstart.
well vile seems to be hovering up all the young talent a club on the up in my opinion and the gap between two clubs has become enormous.
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well vile seems to be hovering up all the young talent a club on the up in my opinion and the gap between two clubs has become enormous.
Correct, it is the natural result of one club investing and one club standing still and budgeting conservatively. Not that I am suggesting we should have taken on as much debt as them but equally we have gone way too far the other way. Seals now have a season ticket waiting list and are looking at expanding Villa Park. Our fans still moan when anyone suggests redeveloping the Halfords lane past ten rows. The Albion small club mentality is unfortunately matched by a section of the fanbase with the boardroom.
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i dont think its lack of "ambishun" its more lack of cash.
Jezza couldnt wait to cash in for £200m, which the Vile spent in excess of on players in 2 years.
Lai & consortium have never pretended to have cash to splash around hence the club self financing bit,
To compete we need an owner with disposable funds - unlikely frankly !
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OS SITE
"Owen Windsor, Toby King and Zak Delaney have all signed new contracts at The Hawthorns.
Forward Windsor and defender Delaney have penned one-year deals with a further year’s option, while midfielder King has signed up until the summer of 2022.
Windsor spent time with both Grimsby Town and Newport County during the 2020/21 campaign, scoring two goals for Town in the first half of the season."
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Heard has a good chance of going to Man City from what I know.
He won't be with us that's for sure. Unfortunately he is also a villa fan.
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Heard has a good chance of going to Man City from what I know.
He won't be with us that's for sure. Unfortunately he is also a villa fan.
Funny you should mention that as I've Heard young Fenton has been courted by the Vile.
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Heard has a good chance of going to Man City from what I know.
He won't be with us that's for sure. Unfortunately he is also a villa fan.
Who are you talking about?
Also I see we have today employed a, *clears throat* “Senior Professional Development Phase Manager. He will oversee progression on 17-23 year olds which has been discussed at length here of late. Richard Beale is the man and has spent time at Blues and Villa.
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Funny you should mention that as I've Heard young Fenton has been courted by the Vile.
The Vile have signed a highly rated 16 year old from Bournemouth :o :o
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I see we have today employed a, *clears throat* “Senior Professional Development Phase Manager. He will oversee progression on 17-23 year olds which has been discussed at length here of late. Richard Beale is the man and has spent time at Blues and Villa.
Yes, there's certainly plenty of cooks in the Academy now:
- Head of Coaching - Mick Halsall
- Academy Manager - Richard Stevens
- Senior Professional Development Phase Manager - Richard Beale
- Professional Development Phase Coach - Deon Burton
- U18 Professional Development Phase Coach - Peter Gilbert
It looks like Beale reports to Stevens. I'm not at all clear on the extent of Halsall's role!
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Funny you should mention that as I've Heard young Fenton has been courted by the Vile.
I don"t know why people on here keep pontificating about academy kids being poached. Unless the F,A and football league protect clubs like west lBrom from losing all their most talented kids , then the academy will not be viable financially and not fit for purpose
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I don"t know why people on here keep pontificating about academy kids being poached. Unless the F,A and football league protect clubs like west lBrom from losing all their most talented kids , then the academy will not be viable financially and not fit for purpose
As expanded upon on pages 82/83 and elsewhere, that simply isn't true.
Saido, Ferguson, Field, Harper, Morgan plus others; then all the many many loans and then the 1st XI team games played by academy grads like Dara mean the system is financially sound. Yes players being nicked is annoying, but we do it to others also.
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As expanded upon on pages 82/83 and elsewhere, that simply isn't true.
Saido, Ferguson, Field, Harper, Morgan plus others; then all the many many loans and then the 1st XI team games played by academy grads like Dara mean the system is financially sound. Yes players being nicked is annoying, but we do it to others also.
I agree it's still financially viable, but I have seen little evidence that we take many kids from other clubs at 14-18, which is where we seem to lose 2 or 3 a year.
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West brom are great at finding young talent but fail time and time again in bringing them through to first team. Hopefully Ishmael will begin to rectify this problem of ours.
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I agree it's still financially viable, but I have seen little evidence that we take many kids from other clubs at 14-18, which is where we seem to lose 2 or 3 a year.
The major flaw in the system to my layman's eyes is that academies of equal rank can take players from each other for very little. That seems to be a major flaw.
Dara was someone we took from a club at like 14 or so, but his old club were very lowly ranked, so it made sense at least.
If we were a League 1 club i'd close it down, it only seems valid for the top twenty clubs or so.
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The major flaw in the system to my layman's eyes is that academies of equal rank can take players from each other for very little. That seems to be a major flaw.
Dara was someone we took from a club at like 14 or so, but his old club were very lowly ranked, so it made sense at least.
If we were a League 1 club i'd close it down, it only seems valid for the top twenty clubs or so.
I was reading up on Dara a while back. From memory I think he signed aged 16. The difference though is we didn't just scoop him up once developed with little or no input along the way. He used to train with us during the school holidays prior to his formal signing.
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I was reading up on Dara a while back. From memory I think he signed aged 16. The difference though is we didn't just scoop him up once developed with little or no input along the way. He used to train with us during the school holidays prior to his formal signing.
Did we take him from St Kevin’s Boys club in Dublin who we had a relationship with at the time? I think it was mutually beneficial and we ultimately were helping to fund the project. They don’t have a senior team as far as I’m aware. Brighton and Ashworth have that particular link up now though I believe.
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The major flaw in the system to my layman's eyes is that academies of equal rank can take players from each other for very little. That seems to be a major flaw.
Dara was someone we took from a club at like 14 or so, but his old club were very lowly ranked, so it made sense at least.
If we were a League 1 club i'd close it down, it only seems valid for the top twenty clubs or so.
The way they tried to sell the EPPP, it was made out that it would make it easier for Cat A clubs to take players from Cat B clubs, which was justified by the fact that Cat A clubs would be putting in a lot more money to train kids to eventually go on to play football for England, etc. As it happened, it quickly became apparent, as feared, that it just made it easier for the biggest clubs to take players from everyone else - Cat A or not.
While I understand the rationale for the youngsters involved and it does seem to be producing results now at international level and below, but it isn’t really fair in it’s current guise to clubs like ours who pump in the required millions every year and get very little to show for it. We are just breaking even at the moment from what I can see, while others make millions.
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Did we take him from St Kevin’s Boys club in Dublin who we had a relationship with at the time? I think it was mutually beneficial and we ultimately were helping to fund the project. They don’t have a senior team as far as I’m aware. Brighton and Ashworth have that particular link up now though I believe.
That's them. 15 year tie up with them by the time of his Albion debut.....
http://www.skbfc.yourclub.ie/news/16963
...... so nothing like the Vile for example stalking our academy players.
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One of the young lads who was released last month Harry Williams has signed a one year deal with Burnley
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Signed a young lad on a free
"Albion have secured the services of highly-rated teenager Quevin Moises Castro on a two-year-deal following a successful trial period at the club.
Castro has committed his future at The Hawthorns until the summer of 2023, with an option of a further year in the club’s favour.
The 19-year-old Portuguese youngster, who turns 20 in August, is an energetic and powerful central midfielder.
Welcome to the Albion, Quevin."
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Interestingly it doesn’t say ‘ will be joining the academy initially ‘ which is normally what is reported when clubs sign younger players they intend ‘ storing away ‘ for a couple of years .
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Interestingly it doesn’t say ‘ will be joining the academy initially ‘ which is normally what is reported when clubs sign younger players they intend ‘ storing away ‘ for a couple of years .
Yes, signed on a 2+1 as well so who knows?
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Seems like he's moved around a bit, most recently he was with Chelsea's U23s
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Rumours that Villa are in for a lot of our academy players... again.
Azaz is rumoured to be the next, then Heard.
It is starting to look like they want to destroy our academy system.
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Rumours that Villa are in for a lot of our academy players... again.
Azaz is rumoured to be the next, then Heard.
It is starting to look like they want to destroy our academy system.
Is that Fin Azaz isn’t he on professional terms so the’d have to stump up a transfer fee? Getting very old Villa hoovering up our best talent from the youth systems. It’s vital we start showing these kids a gateway into the first team it’s the one thing we have over Villa as they keep spending £100+ million every summer the opportunities won’t be there for the youth players.
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I would be shocked if Villa want Azaz, he is 21 in September.
I know a few Cheltenham fans and officials and they said he was decent at best but they would be shocked if he played at championship level let alone premier league.
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Just stumbled across the following on Hoppy's Twitter account. Interesting tie up between the Vile and the Birmingham Primary Schools FA.........
https://www.avfc.co.uk/news/2021/june/Aston-Villa-partnership-with-Birmingham-Primary-Schools-Football-Association/
...........anyone in any doubt they're trying to monopolise the Birmingham talent pool needs to wake up......
'Aston Villa is proud to announce a new partnership with the Birmingham Primary Schools Football Association (BPSFA).
The club has become the principal sponsor of the BPSFA and will provide financial support that contributes to facilities and kit costs, CPD opportunities for young coaches and teachers and access to the club’s training facilities for finals and tournaments.
The partnership will provide increased opportunities for Villa Academy staff to scout and coach players from across the city’s seven districts, which covers over 300 primary schools.
Scott Curry, Player Talent ID Project and Development Manager at Villa, believes the link will strengthen both the club’s junior recruitment and the standard of football across the city.
He said: “We are extremely proud to be the principal sponsor of the Birmingham Primary Schools Football Association.
“Aston Villa has a proud history of discovering local young footballers and providing them with an environment which allows them to develop and succeed. The ongoing partnership with BPSFA will further enhance our ability to unearth local future first team footballers for both the men’s and women’s team.
“The BPSFA have an excellent history of providing opportunities to local boys and girls from all social backgrounds to play football, have fun and make friends.
“We are looking forward to supporting this experience and working with Phil Hynam and his team of teachers and coaches to do everything we can to develop district football in Birmingham.â€
Phil Hynan from the BPSFA said: “Despite a history that dates back over 120 years, this new partnership with Aston Villa FC represents something unique both regionally and nationally in terms of schools' football.
“In terms of district football, Villa's support enables Birmingham Primary Schools FA to provide primary aged footballers of Birmingham with outstanding facilities, quality coaching and the highest standard of play outside of academy football for free.
“Villa's support means no child of Birmingham will be priced out of playing district football and representing their school and community on the national stage.â€
As part of the partnership, a member of the club’s staff will be in attendance at every district game, including the upcoming trials for the 2021/22 season.
If your child is currently in years 3, 4 or 5, you can register to attend the trials below.'.
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Interesting read Dan, they are looking to corner the market and push us off “their†turf at the moment. We need to hope that the club and Stevens are all looking at what we can do to counter their moves, else we could get squashed ourselves. I have read we have a training base down in the South Sast which is good news, taking in the Bristol and Gloucestershire type areas by the looks of it. That is one way of doing it.
On the academy front, a few things from the E and S pod.
Nathan Ferguson was on his way to Mansfield on loan before Bilic but the block on the move and used him in his pre season games. That does show how quickly your fortunes can change as well as a sign that we as a club probably haven’t been brave enoug introducing youngsters into our first team enough. Hopefully that will change now that Ismael is here.
Finally, one that doesn’t massively matter to us, but Tim Ireogbunam has more than 1 offer on the table, so could move somewhere else other than Villa. I hope that is the case.
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My mates kid has just signed for the academy.
He had offers from Villa, Albion, Blues etc and he said out of all the clubs Albion was the most welcoming and had a family feel to it.
My mates a Villa fan and he felt like they were quite cold on their recruitment.
Albion offered him training first and kept in touch with him throughout and treated them like they were kings. At Villa there wasn’t so much of that and my mate felt like they just wanted numbers through the door and didn’t give him the same feeling as he got from Albion.
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My mates kid has just signed for the academy.
He had offers from Villa, Albion, Blues etc and he said out of all the clubs Albion was the most welcoming and had a family feel to it.
My mates a Villa fan and he felt like they were quite cold on their recruitment.
Albion offered him training first and kept in touch with him throughout and treated them like they were kings. At Villa there wasn’t so much of that and my mate felt like they just wanted numbers through the door and didn’t give him the same feeling as he got from Albion.
That's good to hear. To be welcoming and supportive can only be positive for the kids and will make a good impression on the parents/carers. Maybe it's something that we needed to improve and have?
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My mates kid has just signed for the academy.
He had offers from Villa, Albion, Blues etc and he said out of all the clubs Albion was the most welcoming and had a family feel to it.
My mates a Villa fan and he felt like they were quite cold on their recruitment.
Albion offered him training first and kept in touch with him throughout and treated them like they were kings. At Villa there wasn’t so much of that and my mate felt like they just wanted numbers through the door and didn’t give him the same feeling as he got from Albion.
That reminds me of something Tony Brown said. It just felt right as soon as he walked through the door. If your mate's son goes onto have a fraction of Bomber's career with the Albion he'll do for me..........even if he and his dad are Vilers ;) .
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Not sure if its the same one but a mate of mine worked at an Albion talent school in Gloucester recently and was told that as of next season it will be a Villa one instead.
So i assume the people who set it up (Steve Hopcroft was very switched on with that sort of thing) are the ones who went to Villa and they have decided to take those things with them.
I dont know if Richard Stevens has similar things from his Coventry days, maybe more east midlands based, but his track record of getting players into the first team is very good and better than our previous regime (abeit at a different level)
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So does anybody know what the deal is with Finn Azaz then? There isn’t any contract information on Transfermarkt and I hear these murmurs of Villa on this site and twitter. It seems like it’s do or bust this season for the lad with his age but is he one of the academy lads that VI could use in the bustling central midfield?
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Rumour going round social media that Youth team coach informed a parent that there are money issues with club which are affecting the under age set up.
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Rumour going round social media that Youth team coach informed a parent that there are money issues with club which are affecting the under age set up.
I'd imagine it's quite easy to start a rumour on social media. We've been relegated and face a drop in income. There's a likelihood that all aspects of the club will be affected to some degree.
There's also a chance a mischievous member of the youth set down the road has access to social media and has started a one plus one rumour along the lines of 'I've been told' and passes it off as ITK info.
All it takes is for one person to pass it on.... and then another etc. Murky old world is youth football.
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Rumour going round social media that Youth team coach informed a parent that there are money issues with club which are affecting the under age set up.
If that were true (massive IF ) then it would be very short sighted. I hope it's not.
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Another one off to witton ? :o
https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/07/23/aston-villa-sign-west-brom-talent-triston-rowe/
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Azaz officially signed for Villa and loaned out immediately. Rumour is they are going to sell him at end of his first year there to turn a profit.
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I really do think the Azaz signing is psychological. A look at us, we will look after the boys we’ve known since they were little.
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Azaz loaned out to Newport County
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Aziz loaned out to Newport County
...and County manager Flynn thanks Villa for their cooperation...no doubt keeping things very sweet for similar signings in future.
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So he’s gone to play at the same level as last season , hope he’s happy !! ??? ???
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They are a much bigger club than us and.that is why they are leaving it is not rocket science.
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They are a much bigger club than us and.that is why they are leaving it is not rocket science.
....and a richer club who will be offering more money in their contract offers. Don't know what proportion of his wage Newport would be paying.
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The club has tweeted (https://twitter.com/WBA/status/1419945857911250946) this morning that Callum Morton has joined Fleetwood Town on loan for the season.
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I just don't get the whole Azaz thing. He went to Cheltenham last year did okay but hardly tore up trees. Fine he might have taken a stride forward and now be ready to play at a higher level so we might have lost a bit of a useful player to Villa. Everyone gets into a bit of a lather over this and less than a week latter off he goes to League Two Newport County for the season.
Does anybody think after another season in League Two he's going to be the next big thing at Villa? I'm utterly perplexed as to why Villa signed him.
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Villa signed him because it's part of a wider strategic thing to pick away at their main academy geographical rival.i wouldn't be shocked if they hope we eventually downgrade to Class B or whatever its called which then gives them total control of the region.
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Getting a bit past a joke, but I don't know what the answer is. Try and get the rules tightened at national level to stop poaching youngsters? Or get better compensation paid? Its a bit sad if these kids are Albion fans as well.
We need the Academy to work for the club even more, given the club's financial constraints and the restrictions on recruiting from overseas after Brexit.
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Villa signed him because it's part of a wider strategic thing to pick away at their main academy geographical rival.i wouldn't be shocked if they hope we eventually downgrade to Class B or whatever its called which then gives them total control of the region.
Agree completely. The Azaz move is strategic / tactical. Azaz has probably got a little bit more money than he would of done with us, and Villa are probably going to pay at bit more for him than theyd like but I think it they will think its worth it for the statements they are making.
In the past few months Villa have taken players from us, Fleetwood, Bristol, Peterborough and Bournemouth, perhaps more.
You can't place restrictions on the players, so the associations need to place restrictions on the teams.
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Agree completely. The Azaz move is strategic / tactical. Azaz has probably got a little bit more money than he would of done with us, and Villa are probably going to pay at bit more for him than theyd like but I think it they will think its worth it for the statements they are making.
In the past few months Villa have taken players from us, Fleetwood, Bristol, Peterborough and Bournemouth, perhaps more.
You can't place restrictions on the players, so the associations need to place restrictions on the teams.
I was under the impression clubs could only recruit from within 90 minutes of their training ground? No idea where I have that idea, though
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I was under the impression clubs could only recruit from within 90 minutes of their training ground? No idea where I have that idea, though
Its only an hour but its only up until under 12's!
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I was under the impression clubs could only recruit from within 90 minutes of their training ground? No idea where I have that idea, though
Sorry, you were right. It goes up to 90 mins from 13-16. No restrictions from 16 onwards.
That in itself is a joke, you can have kid for 10 years then when they are 16 for 12 months you have very little protection and any club in the country can come in.
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They are a much bigger club than us and.that is why they are leaving it is not rocket science.
This has more to do with their wage budget than their inter galactic immensity. I agree on your latter point though, it's not rocket science.
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I wouldnt be panicking too much over this, the ex Albion staff at Villa are picking players they know, have worked with before and rate.
However as said before, they create a very comfortable environment, out our so called future stars - Field, Roberts, Leko, Edwards, Harper and O’shea, only Roberts has gone to better things, O’Shea is a regular for us, the rest have flattered to deceive. (I dont include Ferguson as he was on his way out until Bilic spotted something)
All the above players were at one stage or another going to be our next big thing when they were 15, 16 or 17 and no fulfilled their potential, they all had opportunities (some could of maybe had more) but personally i wasnt devastated any of them have left as they were never regulars.
Villa have spent a lot of money getting players from elsewhere, the ex Albion staff need to up their game to get those players ready for first team football and not too comfortable like they did with us, if they do that then fair play, but if they dont i expect there will be a major revamp in a few years at Villa with those there now out of work.
Villa are desperate to play catchup locally and do like Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool do, the difference is they sell players from their academies for a lot of money, i think giving them free transfers, £500k from Ipswich one year (Harper), £750k from Blues (Leko) another year wont be enough, the pressure is very much on for the Albion old boys working there now.
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I wouldnt be panicking too much over this, the ex Albion staff at Villa are picking players they know, have worked with before and rate.
However as said before, they create a very comfortable environment, out our so called future stars - Field, Roberts, Leko, Edwards, Harper and O’shea, only Roberts has gone to better things, O’Shea is a regular for us, the rest have flattered to deceive. (I dont include Ferguson as he was on his way out until Bilic spotted something)
All the above players were at one stage or another going to be our next big thing when they were 15, 16 or 17 and no fulfilled their potential, they all had opportunities (some could of maybe had more) but personally i wasnt devastated any of them have left as they were never regulars.
Villa have spent a lot of money getting players from elsewhere, the ex Albion staff need to up their game to get those players ready for first team football and not too comfortable like they did with us, if they do that then fair play, but if they dont i expect there will be a major revamp in a few years at Villa with those there now out of work.
Villa are desperate to play catchup locally and do like Chelsea, Man City and Liverpool do, the difference is they sell players from their academies for a lot of money, i think giving them free transfers, £500k from Ipswich one year (Harper), £750k from Blues (Leko) another year wont be enough, the pressure is very much on for the Albion old boys working there now.
Kemar Roofe is doing ok, yes it scotland but he is a big fish in that pond now.
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Tim Iroegbunam officially signed for the Vile as expected.
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The daily entering of this thread...
The daily Villa signing of our academy players.. ::)
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The daily entering of this thread...
The daily Villa signing of our academy players.. ::)
Cannot blame them sadly. Will take years for the Academy to recover.
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Academy-wise- the Vile seem to have ambition to monopolise the entire West midlands area leaving nothing for Albion. They have poached our coaches and now our best prospects. I can't see how we can stop this given their money and status. They are openly going for our academy assets.
Should we either let our academy dwindle to nothing or fish in further waters (Gloucester, Mid-Wales, South West maybe north Staffs) or give the academy up and turn to Moneyball type stats as Brentford (in a similar position vis a vis Chelsea) have?
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Academy-wise- the Vile seem to have ambition to monopolise the entire West midlands area leaving nothing for Albion. They have poached our coaches and now our best prospects. I can't see how we can stop this given their money and status. They are openly going for our academy assets.
Should we either let our academy dwindle to nothing or fish in further waters (Gloucester, Mid-Wales, South West maybe north Staffs) or give the academy up and turn to Moneyball type stats as Brentford (in a similar position vis a vis Chelsea) have?
I’d seriously consider scrapping it I think. I don’t know if I would go through with us, but a Cat A academy has running costs of between £3-5m per year.
What would it look like if we just spent £5m per year taking between 5-10 of the better 16 year old from other academies. It would reduce opportunities for local kids and urine off other academies but maybe it would help force the authorities to do something.
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Maybe Villa are trying to increase their junior shirt sales :)
I think they missed our best young player in keeper Griffiths, as thank goodness he signed a new long term deal. The rest are so far very speculative acquisitions, except Barry, who does look good at this stage.
Hopefully VI's use of academy talent will encourage others to stay and back themselves. The ones that chase the money rarely make it in the end. Think Sinclair, Brown, Dhanda for example.
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Academy-wise- the Vile seem to have ambition to monopolise the entire West midlands area leaving nothing for Albion. They have poached our coaches and now our best prospects. I can't see how we can stop this given their money and status. They are openly going for our academy assets.
Should we either let our academy dwindle to nothing or fish in further waters (Gloucester, Mid-Wales, South West maybe north Staffs) or give the academy up and turn to Moneyball type stats as Brentford (in a similar position vis a vis Chelsea) have?
In case you were interested, this was the line up for our U16/17 game against Preston on Tuesday based on geographic location, as an example. I've used Birmingham to cover "local" lads that may include West Brom/Sandwell/Smethwick etc unless I know specifically where they are from.
1. Birmingham
2. Birmingham
3. Cheltenham
4. Shrewsbury
5. Wolverhampton
6. Birmingham
7. Tipton
8. Oxford
9. Birmingham
10. Worcester
11. Birmingham
12. Birmingham
13. Coleshill
14. Birmingham
15. Sutton Coldfield
Not sure what that proves, other than traditionally WBA have fished pretty far and wide for a while. Bear in mind the majority of those lads would have been scouted whilst the old, and current Villa, regime were in charge.
Also,fyi, it was the first time they'd played 3-4-3, presumably as the new Head Coach wants to play that way. This is the first time in 10 years that I know of where the Academy has played a specific way to follow the Head Coach's wishes.
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thank you an interesting piece of research.
It's good the that head coach is taking some interest in the U16/17s
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...and as Ismael has a 4 year contract it certainly makes sense to have some consistency in style of player across the age groups.
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Personally the only youth side I’d have matching the first team would be the U23s.
What’s the point in the 16 year olds abandoning full backs, the chances of VI lasting four years are slim. In fact I’d possibly argue for 4-4-2 in the younger teams as it’s going to allow any type of player to flourish.
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Personally the only youth side I’d have matching the first team would be the U23s.
What’s the point in the 16 year olds abandoning full backs, the chances of VI lasting four years are slim. In fact I’d possibly argue for 4-4-2 in the younger teams as it’s going to allow any type of player to flourish.
I see your point but some of last years under 18s are already training with the 1st team and featuring in some of the pre season games. Also we can't really work off a model which assumes the manager is going to depart long before his contract ends.
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I see your point but some of last years under 18s are already training with the 1st team and featuring in some of the pre season games. Also we can't really work off a model which assumes the manager is going to depart long before his contract ends.
I don’t think it would be using a model that assumes the worst, I think it’s sensible based on the industry we are in. Theres no point putting VIs (or any other manger likely to turn up at WBA) ideology through the entire academy. Realistically we are likely to have 5 managers before a 10 year old makes a debut for us (or signs for Villa)
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I don’t think it would be using a model that assumes the worst, I think it’s sensible based on the industry we are in. Theres no point putting VIs (or any other manger likely to turn up at WBA) ideology through the entire academy. Realistically we are likely to have 5 managers before a 10 year old makes a debut for us (or signs for Villa)
Yeah 10 year olds is taking it a bit far but I'd say there is some point with the under 18s. Our lads were clearly behind Villa in terms of physical development in the Youth cup semi. Hopefully that side of it is being looked at also whether under the influence by VI or not.
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I don’t think it would be using a model that assumes the worst, I think it’s sensible based on the industry we are in. Theres no point putting VIs (or any other manger likely to turn up at WBA) ideology through the entire academy. Realistically we are likely to have 5 managers before a 10 year old makes a debut for us (or signs for Villa)
To clarify, we’ve been told the 16s will “dip in and out of†3-4-3 during the season. This happened to be one of those occasions. Against Blues the previous Saturday it was 4-4-2.
10 year olds play 7 a side so it’s not applicable.
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I personally think players shouldn't specialise into a position until they're at least 18, ideally later.
I think playing in a variety of positions gives a greater technical and mental understanding of the game, and adds versatility, which is usually a benefit.
Modern footballers are asked to do multiple jobs - defenders need to be able to bring the ball out of defence/pass through the lines, attackers need to press and link play.
I think when Mowbray was here he had all the youth teams playing possession football, which seemed sensible at the time.
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Live stream running on website vs Burnley if you log into your account. Working for non season ticket holders too.
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Snodgrass in CM. Looks lethargic but that is understandable. I believe they are aiming to bring him back into frist team squad after Arsenal?
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Don't know the numbers but I think Castro's been injured?
Out number 3 likes good
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Don't know the numbers but I think Castro's been injured?
Out number 3 likes good
Castro was in CM with Snodgrass a minute ago. He's got the weird angled afro style haircut
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Yep just saw him again. One of our strikers got injured a few mins ago
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I thought it was Rico Richards that got injured
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Where do you find the link?
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I thought it was Rico Richards that got injured
It was Malcolm i believe. Richards was stood around at the time
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Where do you find the link?
https://www.wba.co.uk/video/live
Logged in and it let me watch for free
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HT 0-0
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Our No9 seems quite bright in link up play.
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Where do you find the link?
Somewhere ont tinternet I fink lad ;D .
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Somewhere ont tinternet I fink lad ;D .
Or 3 posts previous !
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Snodgrass is looking good in CM second half. A lot is going through him and he is passing the ball well.
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2-0 Snodgrass pen
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Mo Faal got the first, he’s the really tall no.9. Snodgrass got the 2nd from the spot.
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Snodgrass gets a 2nd after good work from sub Owen Windsor, 3-0
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Mo Faal got the first, he’s the really tall no.9. Snodgrass got the 2nd from the spot.
Is Faal anywhere near a start from the first team bench? Or even an actual game start?
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Is Faal anywhere near a start from the first team bench? Or even an actual game start?
dunno, only seen him a couple of times. He’s got the physical attributes but the question is technical and I can’t answer that.
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2 goals for Burnley in injury time. 3-2 now.
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FT 3-2
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FT 3-2
Similar to Saturday. Cruising then couple of giveaways
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two late goals after being 3-0 up. Is it catching?
Goalie seemed to let a grubber cross slip out of his hands for their second.
Little midfielder who came on to replace Snodders at 70 mintes looked promising - Toby King?
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Similar to Saturday. Cruising then couple of giveaways
Yes very sloppy indeed. The 2nd one was odd.
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two late goals after being 3-0 up. Is it catching?
Goalie seemed to let a grubber cross slip out of his hands for their second.
Little midfielder who came on to replace Snodders at 70 mintes looked promising - Toby King?
Our keeper looked not upto much most of the game. Toby King came on yep.
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Were Albion not looking at streaming PL2 games live?
I know they streamed the home game Vs Fulham.
Anyone seen any news or links?
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Were Albion not looking at streaming PL2 games live?
I know they streamed the home game Vs Fulham.
Anyone seen any news or links?
The last one was streamed live mate. See above posts.
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Were Albion not looking at streaming PL2 games live?
I know they streamed the home game Vs Fulham.
Anyone seen any news or links?
I got caught out too but if you read the WBA+ info it is as thus:-
"We'll also be offering live streams of Albion's PL2 home matches on the channel free to season ticket holders and members."
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currently 2-0 down as we head towards half time, stats suggest it's been fairly equal but Fulham have got their shots on target.
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currently 2-0 down as we head towards half time, stats suggest it's been fairly equal but Fulham have got their shots on target.
HT: 3-0 Fulham massively increased their attacks and shots before the end of the half.
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Fulham definitely got the best squad in the division, I think.
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Josh Griffiths selected for England Under-21's. Well done Josh.
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He has had a difficult start to life at Lincoln for all accounts, but hopefully this will give him a bit more confidence.
In other news, our academy side have drawn Man Utd, Wolves and Blues in the group stage if the premier league 2 Cup.
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PL2 live on WBA TV against Blues . We look much younger and smaller in general than Blues
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PL2 live on WBA TV against Blues . We look much younger and smaller in general than Blues
played some nice football in the first half. Deserved to draw level before half time and a penalty save too.
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played some nice football in the first half. Deserved to draw level before half time and a penalty save too.
What's your signal like? Mine is very stop start but it might be my WiFi as I am away. Was able to watch the Arsenal game without a problem though.
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Watched first half and mine was fine .
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Watched first half and mine was fine . He
Thanks :(
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Won 3-2. Malcolm and Faal scored in the 2nd half . I was quite impressed with Faal when he came on against Arsenal
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Great break for the winner with Faal and Malcolm combining well to out pace the Blues defence. An entertaining watch while I was supposed to be working.
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Won 3-2. Malcolm and Faal scored in the 2nd half . I was quite impressed with Faal when he came on against Arsenal
Always makes me smile when I hear the name Faal. It means 'fail' in Dutch.
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We've been drawn away to Highgate United in the 1st round of the Birmingham Senior Cup, no date yet but must be played on or before 23rd October
https://twitter.com/BirminghamFA/status/1431211137140416512/photo/1
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We've been drawn away to Highgate United in the 1st round of the Birmingham Senior Cup, no date yet but must be played on or before 23rd October
https://twitter.com/BirminghamFA/status/1431211137140416512/photo/1
Good opportunity to blood the kids ;)
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We've been drawn away to Highgate United in the 1st round of the Birmingham Senior Cup, no date yet but must be played on or before 23rd October
https://twitter.com/BirminghamFA/status/1431211137140416512/photo/1
Good chance of silverware?
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Jovan Malcolm set to sign for Accrington Stanley on loan
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Jovan Malcolm set to sign for Accrington Stanley on loan
Think that'll be a good move for him, hopefully he'll get plenty of game time.
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Think that'll be a good move for him, hopefully he'll get plenty of game time.
Yep, all done and on the OS site now. The problem with using our better kids as EFL backup is, again, lack of development for them. Hopefully they use them for the FA cup like the league cup.
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U23's beating Newcastle 2-0 at half time. Castro and Faal the scorers.
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U23's beating Newcastle 2-0 at half time. Castro and Faal the scorers.
Meant to watch that via WBA TV last night but completely forgot. Bugger.
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It's 3-1 to Villa at half-time in this evening's game, so it's safe to say that it hasn't gone well so far.
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Lost 4-2 in the end..
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Did our new cb play?
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Did our new cb play?
Kean started, not sure how long he played for.
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Did our new cb play?
He didnt impress and went off at half time.
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He didnt impress and went off at half time.
According to VI he was always only going to play 45 mins
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According to VI he was always only going to play 45 mins
Yes but just stating he didnt impress.
In fairness he was partnered by Joshua and Shotton and neither are any good.
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Yes but just stating he didnt impress.
In fairness he was partnered by Joshua and Shotton and neither are any good.
All sounds pretty positive there then ;) Seeing some of the youngsters that Villa have and with the evidence of the FA youth semi last season also, that was probably a tough game especially for our defenders. I get the impression it's going to be pretty easy for our defenders to look bad in Val's system i.e. playing high up the pitch and being pretty exposed against potent attacks.
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Yes but just stating he didnt impress.
In fairness he was partnered by Joshua and Shotton and neither are any good.
Also in fairness, it was the first (vaguely) competitive game Bryan's played in since last season.
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Our Under 18's (or Villa's future U23 side as they are also known) got tanked 5-0 by the Dingles in the PL2 Cup yesterday. Not a great weekend- 9 conceded to local rivals and the senior side fail go win as well. Hope the women make it right today.
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Also in fairness, it was the first (vaguely) competitive game Bryan's played in since last season.
Absolutely, yes.
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Hope the women make it right today.
The senior side isn't playing today, although the women's Development team is (against Wolves as it happens).
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At least there is one other club who seem to have been screwed over as much as we have.
Liverpool ‘academy product’ Kaide Gordon started tonight, 6 months after being signed from Derby. Liam Delap at city was also signed / pinched from Derby.
Being able to demand reasonable fees for those two could have stopped Derby needing to enter administration this week.
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That or covered Rooney's pay since arriving. Derby are down in the brown stuff for more than having their academy players taken. Over inflated stadium valuation being one. Then there's the late submission of finances.
The list goes on quite a bit before Derby blame Covid or the EFL too. Not good that the youngsters went and for less than they were probably worth to Derby but they've had it coming for being badly run regardless.
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U23s leading 2-0 at Southampton. Rico Richards got the first . Castro with the 2nd
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Faal and Andrews make it 4-0 :D
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6-0 win!
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Windsor with a screamer and another from Faal completes the scoring.
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Some of these lads must be pushing for the first 11
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Was it full Valball or no?
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Was it full Valball or no?
Read a few comments elsewhere and almost sounds like how Valball should be played. A mixture of high press, direct balls forward and one touch in the oppos last third. Helps when the OPPO continues to try and tippy tsp it about as Southampton did by all accounts.
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U23s leading 2-0 at Southampton. Rico Richards got the first . Castro with the 2nd
Was Castro's goal the freekick? What a goal that was.
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More disconcerting news about arguably our brightest prospect - Reyes Cleary. Apparently no contract agreed and vultures soaring.
I’m starting to believe that we’re not as inept as we seem regarding tying down young talent. I’m not speculating, but I wiser man than I may suggest there’s some serious back-handers going on.
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More disconcerting news about arguably our brightest prospect - Reyes Cleary. Apparently no contract agreed and vultures soaring.
I’m starting to believe that we’re not as inept as we seem regarding tying down young talent. I’m not speculating, but I wiser man than I may suggest there’s some serious back-handers going on.
Cleary has been known for months. It’s not a surprise.
Also he’s apparently scored for the U21’s again, as has Quevin.
EDIT: currently 2-5; Cleary got 2 and Windsor got 2, Quevin’s was an own goal.
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Dortmund want Cleary apparently. Can't blame the lad for going if he does.
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Great win for the Under 21's - 11 goals in the space of a few days.
Not going to pay too much attention to Cleary's progress, we have seen it enough times now to know that our best kids don't stay, they go at the first chance they can due to something not quite right at the club, but behind him we have to hope there are some slower developers who aren't quite grabbing the attention but who will sneak up in the first team - players like O'Shea and to a lesser extent Ferguson.
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Cleary has been known for months. It’s not a surprise.
Also he’s apparently scored for the U21’s again, as has Quevin.
EDIT: currently 2-5; Cleary got 2 and Windsor got 2, Quevin’s was an own goal.
It may well have been known for months….and I never said it was a surprise. My comment was based on latest…more ‘relevant’ news.
If “known for months†is your answer, my point remains just as valid.
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Just saw this on BBC gossip, if true, as we clearly are missing a striker, what are they seeing that we aren't?
Dortmund and Hoffenheim are monitoring West Bromwich Albion's 17-year-old English striker Reyes Cleary. (Mail)
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Borussia Dortmund and Hoffenheim are watching West Bromwich Albion's prodigious young striker Reyes Cleary.
The 17-year-old has caught the eye of the Bundesliga clubs' scouts after impressing for Albion's U18s and in Premier League 2.
They were represented as he scored twice in Albion U18s' 5-2 defeat at Chelsea in August and they have maintained a watching brief.
He has scored six goals in four games already this season, but is yet to sign his first professional contract at the Hawthorns.
Albion have an impressive track record of producing top homegrown talent over recent years, but have seen a number move away owing to offers from rival clubs or concerns over career pathway.
Bundesliga clubs have been stepping up their scouting of English clubs and to great effect with a number of top English prospects being tempted by the chance to move into first team football earlier in Germany.
Cleary's physical style has seen him compared to £97.5million Chelsea star Romelu Lukaku
Cleary is one of Albion's latest top talents and is drawing attention from Dortmund, Hoffenheim and Schalke who have all had staff monitoring his displays this season.
It is also understood there is interest from Premier League sides and some in Italy.
Cleary is a quick, powerful forward for his age with an eye for goal. Likened in style to Chelsea's Romelu Lukaku, he finished last season as Albion’s top scorer in the U18 Premier League, scoring eight goals in 15 appearances and was described by Albion's U18 coach Peter Gilbert as 'an excellent finisher'.
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Borussia Dortmund and Hoffenheim are watching West Bromwich Albion's prodigious young striker Reyes Cleary.
The 17-year-old has caught the eye of the Bundesliga clubs' scouts after impressing for Albion's U18s and in Premier League 2.
They were represented as he scored twice in Albion U18s' 5-2 defeat at Chelsea in August and they have maintained a watching brief.
He has scored six goals in four games already this season, but is yet to sign his first professional contract at the Hawthorns.
Albion have an impressive track record of producing top homegrown talent over recent years, but have seen a number move away owing to offers from rival clubs or concerns over career pathway.
Bundesliga clubs have been stepping up their scouting of English clubs and to great effect with a number of top English prospects being tempted by the chance to move into first team football earlier in Germany.
Cleary's physical style has seen him compared to £97.5million Chelsea star Romelu Lukaku
Cleary is one of Albion's latest top talents and is drawing attention from Dortmund, Hoffenheim and Schalke who have all had staff monitoring his displays this season.
It is also understood there is interest from Premier League sides and some in Italy.
Cleary is a quick, powerful forward for his age with an eye for goal. Likened in style to Chelsea's Romelu Lukaku, he finished last season as Albion’s top scorer in the U18 Premier League, scoring eight goals in 15 appearances and was described by Albion's U18 coach Peter Gilbert as 'an excellent finisher'.
I wonder how much we will get when he signs for Villa?
If he is 17, why doesn't he already have a 3 year contract. Do we never learn?
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I wonder how much we will get when he signs for Villa?
If he is 17, why doesn't he already have a 3 year contract. Do we never learn?
This is Lai's Albion. Nothing is ever learnt by those in charge despite nothing being known about football by them.
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I wonder how much we will get when he signs for Villa?
If he is 17, why doesn't he already have a 3 year contract. Do we never learn?
He may have been offered a contract, doesn't mean he will sign it though.
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Then again if you are sat down with mum and dad, and a club put money in front of you, its very hard to say no at 17. I can imagine if someone offered me say £2k a week at 17, and a nice little signing bonus (for mum and dad). At the end of the day money will win 99% of the time. It wont have anything to do with future progression at Albion. He will have seen his mates signing for Villa and probably wants a piece of the action. These potential suitors can afford to throw a little money around, as they just might get a gem. And if it doesn't work out then they're not too bothered about the money lost anyway. Just because a player looks good at 17 doesn't necessarily equate to a good player at 25. But these clubs are prepared to take the gamble. Im sure we do exactly the same to clubs in lower leagues.
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He may have been offered a contract, doesn't mean he will sign it though.
I understand that, but He was 17 at the end of last season. At which point he can sign his first pro contract.
How many 17 year old's would turn that down with no other pro contract on the table? If there were others, then why has he began the season here, playing games.
Something doesn't add up.
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I don’t know who he is but I’m just accepting the fact he’s gone already
We only get left with the lads who are not good enough for anybody else!
We may as well just shut it down.
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Took his 2 goals from last night from the highlights although the Norwich own goal may have been the best for us. No idea what their player was thinking.
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If I’ve read correctly Reyes Cleary scored 4 vs Tottenham under 18s
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If I’ve read correctly Reyes Cleary scored 4 vs Tottenham under 18s
Correct. As a side note his conditioning looks better than I've seen in the past. Not sure whether he's growing into his frame or taking things more seriously. Probably a bit of both but either way it's paying off for him.
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Correct. As a side note his conditioning looks better than I've seen in the past. Not sure whether he's growing into his frame or taking things more seriously. Probably a bit of both but either way it's paying off for him.
So, tell me please, I don't know. Is he good enough for the first team? In my world, if your're good enough you're old enough.
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So, tell me please, I don't know. Is he good enough for the first team? In my world, if your're good enough you're old enough.
Wouldn't say he's ready for a start but I'd certainly consider him from the bench. Same goes for the smaller Windsor and Richards. Never know, might even help Cleary sign a pro contract.
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We are led to believe that Val wants to involve youngsters but sitting on the bench can become boring.
Bellingham is exceptional but was playing regularly playing first team football for the Blues.
I believe Dennis Law was playing first team football aged 16 and Rooney at 17.
Giving a youngster game time would be more of an incentive for the other youngsters at the club.
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We’re taking on Sunderland U23’s tonight at 7 o’clock. My guess is this will be on the app if anyone wants to watch.
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We are led to believe that Val wants to involve youngsters but sitting on the bench can become boring.
Bellingham is exceptional but was playing regularly playing first team football for the Blues.
I believe Dennis Law was playing first team football aged 16 and Rooney at 17.
Giving a youngster game time would be more of an incentive for the other youngsters at the club.
As you say Bellingham was an exceptional talent for his age. But for all the comments on this forum about our squad being the weakest it's been in donkey's it's stronger on paper than the Blues squad when Bellingham was there.
Ironically enough I think 'that' Bellingham would have made an ideal central midfield partner for Mowatt now. On the other hand I also think we'd be better drip feeding our youngsters in. It's a different type of pressure making your breakthrough with a mid table side to one pushing for promotion.
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Cleary doesn’t seem to have stepped up to the u23s yet. Until that happens I think it’s extremely unlikely he will jump from the u18s to the first team pitch.
We all expect he’ll be leaving anyway, his recent performances are only going to have made the big clubs more willing to take a punt on him.
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U23s score in first couple of mins Fellows the scorer I think
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Clarke has grown a beard in his off time makes him look like he’s got his head on upside down :D :D :D
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cracking save that from a long range shot by Sunderland
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clarke off at half-time
Has he strained something again poor little lamb?
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clarke off at half-time
Has he strained something again poor little lamb?
Him and Zohore were only getting 45 mins each apparently.
How did Zohore do anyone know?
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Him and Zohore were only getting 45 mins each apparently.
How did Zohore do anyone know?
was watching it on and off but he was as you'd expect. He didn't stand out against a load of kids.
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was watching it on and off but he was as you'd expect. He didn't stand out against a load of kids.
Good grief! Thanks for the review anyway Hull!
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Our number 7's promising
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Nice header from the keeper! "crowd" of 154!
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we seem to be playing it on the ground a lot more than the first team do. Same frustrating over playing it around the box rather than someone having a shot.
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Interesting that we’ve now won 5 in 7 or something like that. Considering in some recent seasons we have only managed between 2 and 8 wins all season.
Not entirely sure what it means, but perhaps not caring about results (reportedly)outside of the first team has held some kids back in the past.
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Interesting that we’ve now won 5 in 7 or something like that. Considering in some recent seasons we have only managed between 2 and 8 wins all season.
Not entirely sure what it means, but perhaps not caring about results (reportedly)outside of the first team has held some kids back in the past.
I suspect and hope that improvements in fitness levels and intensity apply beyond the 1st team which may well be having an impact.
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Also they might see some possibilities of first team opportunities. It's not like we have a dearth of squad players.
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Only saw first 25 minutes or so the lad Andrews wearing No8 was the stand out for me always available to receive a pass and always moving the ball on with minimum fuss and good accuracy and range in his passing
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Surely Fellows is not far away from the first team now with his performances the last 12-18 months?
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Fellows seems a very skillful player. I wonder if his own physical size is a concern as he does appear to be on the tiny side of small. When being congratulated on his goal he seemed to be about chest height ti Faal and Zohore with less meat on him than you'd find on a butchers pencil !!
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Fellows seems a very skillful player. I wonder if his own physical size is a concern as he does appear to be on the tiny side of small. When being congratulated on his goal he seemed to be about chest height ti Faal and Zohore with less meat on him than you'd find on a butchers pencil !!
He's bigger and stronger than Diangana. Size shouldn't really matter for a wide forward, especially if you have size elsewhere.
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He's bigger and stronger than Diangana. Size shouldn't really matter for a wide forward, especially if you have size elsewhere.
I don’t think size as in height matters too much, but strength does. 18 is the perfect age to naturally fill out though and if that’s not happening even 8-12 weeks on a strength program could make a big difference.
If he’s lacking a bit of strength it should be an easy fix
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He's bigger and stronger than Diangana. Size shouldn't really matter for a wide forward, especially if you have size elsewhere.
Careful!!! ;D
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He's bigger and stronger than Diangana. Size shouldn't really matter for a wide forward, especially if you have size elsewhere.
The double entendre of this post is literally gushing all over the place ;D :o ;) .
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He's bigger and stronger than Diangana. Size shouldn't really matter for a wide forward, especially if you have size elsewhere.
You surprise me if that’s true having seen him in the flesh against Arsenal he looked like the kid from the playground !
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You surprise me if that’s true having seen him in the flesh against Arsenal he looked like the kid from the playground !
Fellows is billed as 6ft, so he’s not exactly tiny.
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Fellows is billed as 6ft, so he’s not exactly tiny.
If he’s 6ft we have plenty of 9 ft players !
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The under 23's came from 1 down to win 2-1 against Boro who had a man sent off in the 60th i think.
Zohore and Cleary on the scoresheet.
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The under 23's came from 1 down to win 2-1 against Boro who had a man sent off in the 60th i think.
Zohore and Cleary on the scoresheet.
Good to see Cleary stepping up from the u18s to the u23s and scoring in the past few weeks. Shame that past experience suggests he is likely to leave so I do wonder why we are helping him put himself in the shop window unless it’s to drum up as much value for a jan sale as possible.
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Good to see Cleary stepping up from the u18s to the u23s and scoring in the past few weeks. Shame that past experience suggests he is likely to leave so I do wonder why we are helping him put himself in the shop window unless it’s to drum up as much value for a jan sale as possible.
Whatever happens I doubt we will see him get to shine here. Most kids see their futures elsewhere it seems and I cant blame them.
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Nicely taken goal by Cleary from the highlights. Seems to have something about him for sure. Can he brought into the first team fold in Jan?
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Looking around the leagues, it is curious to see just how terrible the record of the Hopcroft/Harrison era has been in terms of producing actual quality players. For whatever reason our record for producing players at schoolboy level is impeccable and we produce many underage internationals at those levels (both here, and those who go elsewhere). But it is pretty systematic how none of these players seem to stay at anything like those levels.
Rekheem Harper and Kyle Edwards are in and out a mid-table league one side, Louie Barry is also there but isn't even making their squads. Elsewhere Morgan Rogers once a star of England under 17's is isolated to the odd few minutes as a sub at Bournemouth, Jonathan Leko is arguably one of Birmingham's worst signings in recent years, Sam Field has been injured but was a bit part player out on loan last season. Izzy Brown was moved on to Preston on a free after inconsistent loans.
This is only a small subselection, there's a whole lot more youth internationals we've had who've never done anything. The best players our supposedly much heralded academy ultimately produced from schoolboys have been Saido Berahino, who basically has had one good season in his career. Then you have Tyler Roberts who never really does anything but is at least at premier league level.
Given the academy has previously been so highly rated it is food for thought why we produced so many good schoolboys yet here and away from here none of them have made it. Obviously it is hard to produce a premier league player and even the best clubs success ratio isn't high but considering our reputation we still have a particularly poor record. It raises many questions just over why that was. Where we coaching players to excel in certain aspects and neglecting their wider game so when the levels stepped up their flaws became more apparent? Did we focus too much on physicality and these players didn't stand out as they got older?
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did Kemar Roofe come through academy ?
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did Kemar Roofe come through academy ?
yes he did.
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Looking around the leagues, it is curious to see just how terrible the record of the Hopcroft/Harrison era has been in terms of producing actual quality players. For whatever reason our record for producing players at schoolboy level is impeccable and we produce many underage internationals at those levels (both here, and those who go elsewhere). But it is pretty systematic how none of these players seem to stay at anything like those levels.
Rekheem Harper and Kyle Edwards are in and out a mid-table league one side, Louie Barry is also there but isn't even making their squads. Elsewhere Morgan Rogers once a star of England under 17's is isolated to the odd few minutes as a sub at Bournemouth, Jonathan Leko is arguably one of Birmingham's worst signings in recent years, Sam Field has been injured but was a bit part player out on loan last season. Izzy Brown was moved on to Preston on a free after inconsistent loans.
This is only a small subselection, there's a whole lot more youth internationals we've had who've never done anything. The best players our supposedly much heralded academy ultimately produced from schoolboys have been Saido Berahino, who basically has had one good season in his career. Then you have Tyler Roberts who never really does anything but is at least at premier league level.
Given the academy has previously been so highly rated it is food for thought why we produced so many good schoolboys yet here and away from here none of them have made it. Obviously it is hard to produce a premier league player and even the best clubs success ratio isn't high but considering our reputation we still have a particularly poor record. It raises many questions just over why that was. Where we coaching players to excel in certain aspects and neglecting their wider game so when the levels stepped up their flaws became more apparent? Did we focus too much on physicality and these players didn't stand out as they got older?
[/b]All good questions and some things are hard to explain. Regarding the physicality, there is also the possibility that we didn't focus enough on physicality and that the players are not physically equipped to deal with the step-up to senior football.
Injury has certainly played a part in stalling/ruining the progress of George Thorne, Sam Field, Izzy Brown and now Nathan Ferguson.
This concerns the next generation in a way but I was struck by how physically mature the Villa lads looked compared to ours in the FA youth cup last season. If Louie Barry has been fit then it's a mystery what's happened to him at Ipswich as he certainly looks a talent.
I think it's equally valid to ask about the mental aspect of players coming through the academy system. All clubs will have their bright hopes and it takes the combination of talent, sheer dedication and desire and an element of luck, especially regarding injuries to battle through it in a very competitive world.
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yes he did.
So Berahino and Roofe are pretty much the only players who have achieved beyond championship level to date.
A) questionable if Rangers are at a higher level, but do play (breifly) in europe, so give them benefit of the doubt)
B) we all now SB had one season in the sun and then imploded,
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Looking around the leagues, it is curious to see just how terrible the record of the Hopcroft/Harrison era has been in terms of producing actual quality players. For whatever reason our record for producing players at schoolboy level is impeccable and we produce many underage internationals at those levels (both here, and those who go elsewhere). But it is pretty systematic how none of these players seem to stay at anything like those levels.
Rekheem Harper and Kyle Edwards are in and out a mid-table league one side, Louie Barry is also there but isn't even making their squads. Elsewhere Morgan Rogers once a star of England under 17's is isolated to the odd few minutes as a sub at Bournemouth, Jonathan Leko is arguably one of Birmingham's worst signings in recent years, Sam Field has been injured but was a bit part player out on loan last season. Izzy Brown was moved on to Preston on a free after inconsistent loans.
This is only a small subselection, there's a whole lot more youth internationals we've had who've never done anything. The best players our supposedly much heralded academy ultimately produced from schoolboys have been Saido Berahino, who basically has had one good season in his career. Then you have Tyler Roberts who never really does anything but is at least at premier league level.
Given the academy has previously been so highly rated it is food for thought why we produced so many good schoolboys yet here and away from here none of them have made it. Obviously it is hard to produce a premier league player and even the best clubs success ratio isn't high but considering our reputation we still have a particularly poor record. It raises many questions just over why that was. Where we coaching players to excel in certain aspects and neglecting their wider game so when the levels stepped up their flaws became more apparent? Did we focus too much on physicality and these players didn't stand out as they got older?
Not sure about the physicality thing as if you look back to last season particularly the loss to Villa arguably the biggest difference was in size and power. Also it I must be very difficult to forecast how much and how quickly a lad will grow from say 15 to 18
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Cleary is obviously a serious prospect but let’s remember he was only onthe U23s bench having come up from U18s. That is a helluva big jump to ask him to fire up a promotion campaign
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Nicely taken goal by Cleary from the highlights. Seems to have something about him for sure. Can he brought into the first team fold in Jan?
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong but home produced players of that age don't count in the premier league quota so there would be nothing stopping us picking him now if we wanted to.
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Pretty sure you’re right Adder. There is definitely something about age and home grown players in the rules about squads
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PL2 game live on app and website for STH’s. Leading 1-0 after about 2 mins . Haven’t seen teamsheet but looked like Faal that scored moved started with throw from keeper ;) ;)
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1-1 ft against Stoke
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Cleary is obviously a serious prospect but let’s remember he was only onthe U23s bench having come up from U18s. That is a helluva big jump to ask him to fire up a promotion campaign
He may have been on the bench today, but he has started and scored for the u23s.
After today, his record is 8 goals in 5 games for the under 18s and 3 goals in 4 games for the u23s. His under 23 goals are in just 169 minutes.
It is a massive jump though.
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Mentioned on the BBC Football Gossip that Chelsea are sniffing round this 16 year old lad of ours before he signs pro forms with us. Here we go again?!!
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Mentioned on the BBC Football Gossip that Chelsea are sniffing round this 16 year old lad of ours before he signs pro forms with us. Here we go again?!!
2 words of advice to him "Izzy Brown"
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Mentioned on the BBC Football Gossip that Chelsea are sniffing round this 16 year old lad of ours before he signs pro forms with us. Here we go again?!!
Leo Cardoso. He's 15 actually but plays up. And I'm not exaggerating when I say EVERY big club in Europe is after him.
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We need to make him and his advisors an offer they cannot refuse.
ie. Sign a 4 year pro contract at a very good rate per week with a set (£x millions) release clause after two years. Or, do not sign and we will be within our rights to charge a commensurate sum (£x millions) from you and your representatives for our part in your football development to this stage.
I'm sure legal brains could develop something along these lines to ensure clubs like us are no longer sitting ducks to 'big' clubs', who tempt kids with what seems to the kids to be big money, but is in fact a pittance to clubs like Chelsea. These clubs then often let the kids stagnate in their third team whilst they buy in more developed talent from abroad.
Oh and ffs make sure we get any cash up front in future!!!
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We need to make him and his advisors an offer they cannot refuse.
ie. Sign a 4 year pro contract at a very good rate per week with a set (£x millions) release clause after two years. Or, do not sign and we will be within our rights to charge a commensurate sum (£x millions) from you and your representatives for our part in your football development to this stage.
I'm sure legal brains could develop something along these lines to ensure clubs like us are no longer sitting ducks to 'big' clubs', who tempt kids with what seems to the kids to be big money, but is in fact a pittance to clubs like Chelsea. These clubs then often let the kids stagnate in their third team whilst they buy in more developed talent from abroad.
Oh and ffs make sure we get any cash up front in future!!!
No chance of the highlighted bit, its a rigged game even at that level, underwritten by the "sports" ruling bodies, play by their rules or don't play, end of !
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No chance of the highlighted bit, its a rigged game even at that level, underwritten by the "sports" ruling bodies, play by their rules or don't play, end of !
Unfortunately true. Needs to be challenged though, but how? There are surely more of us than them, but at the moment they hold the power. How can we as supporters of the game that provides their luxurious and decadent lifestyles, change the balance- have we any weapons at all? My own thought processes only tend to involve some rather violent outcomes that I have neither the means nor finances to support. Anybody with real brains out there with ideas on what we should be pushing for/demanding, and how we might go about attaining the objectives.
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In the short term, as bad as it sounds, we should just be doing our best to poach the best available similar aged players from teams below us in the pyramid.
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Mentioned on the BBC Football Gossip that Chelsea are sniffing round this 16 year old lad of ours before he signs pro forms with us. Here we go again?!!
He'd be daft if he went to Chelsea. He'd be about No.48 in the pecking order there. Chelsea loanees are spread all around the lower leagues here and a few in Europe.
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He'd be daft if he went to Chelsea. He'd be about No.48 in the pecking order there. Chelsea loanees are spread all around the lower leagues here and a few in Europe.
If he moves for career progression or 'football reasons' the he certainly would be daft. But I doubt you can stop a young player moving if he is offered what he thinks is a lot of money immediately regardless of where in the pecking order he will be.
For me the issue is not just about holding on to our good young prospects, it is also about getting appropriate financial compensation for the time and effort in getting them to that stage, and for the loss of any future benefits in performance or sales.
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If he moves for career progression or 'football reasons' the he certainly would be daft. But I doubt you can stop a young player moving if he is offered what he thinks is a lot of money immediately regardless of where in the pecking order he will be.
For me the issue is not just about holding on to our good young prospects, it is also about getting appropriate financial compensation for the time and effort in getting them to that stage, and for the loss of any future benefits in performance or sales.
That's always been the bug bear with me too.
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He'd be daft if he went to Chelsea. He'd be about No.48 in the pecking order there. Chelsea loanees are spread all around the lower leagues here and a few in Europe.
He wouldn’t - Chelsea will sort both the lad and his family handsomely in comparison to what we will offer.
It’s a no brainier and I would do exactly the same.
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In the short term, as bad as it sounds, we should just be doing our best to poach the best available similar aged players from teams below us in the pyramid.
Unfortunately until the rules are changed (and they won't, as they favour PL clubs creating player farms) this is the only principle that works. Seeing our youngsters heading to the likes of Man City and Chelsea should assist us in attracting the best young players both locally and further afield.
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A couple more Dara O'Shea signings would be good (maybe they are happening). He was 17 when he signed, was obviously under the radar of other clubs and he's someone you can always imagine having a good attitude.
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A couple more Dara O'Shea signings would be good (maybe they are happening). He was 17 when he signed, was obviously under the radar of other clubs and he's someone you can always imagine having a good attitude.
Although he only signed from St Kevin's relatively late he used to train with us several times a year prior to that during holidays. They signed a five year player development agreement with Bohemians in 2018 (according to Wiki'). Definitely something to revisit before the Vile get on board.
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Although he only signed from St Kevin's relatively late he used to train with us several times a year prior to that during holidays. They signed a five year player development agreement with Bohemians in 2018 (according to Wiki'). Definitely something to revisit before the Vile get on board.
OK thanks for the background and yes that sounds a sensible initiative.
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Free stream on youtube for our game at Forest , camera a long way off though ;D
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Free stream on youtube for our game at Forest , camera a long way off though ;D
Losing 2-0
Anyone watching?
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Won 3-2. Zohore scored two ;D
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Won 3-2. Zohore scored two ;D
WBA official twitter says it ended 2-2?
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He wouldn’t - Chelsea will sort both the lad and his family handsomely in comparison to what we will offer.
It’s a no brainier and I would do exactly the same.
well , its. a no brainier from me , close the academy !
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WBA official twitter says it ended 2-2?
Serves me right for relying on Facebook ;D
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Zohore had a decent game apparently.
No, I didn't get that off Facebook ;D .
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The frustrating thing is that Zohore has the ability to be a far better player than Hugill.
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The frustrating thing is that Zohore has the ability to be a far better player than Hugill.
January window upcoming, put himself in shop window - cynical Moi ??
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January window upcoming, put himself in shop window - cynical Moi ??
Gladly put him in the shop window if he's up for it. If he scores 5 or 6 between now and Jan and gets a move everyone's a winner.
After all, he doesn't have to be any good, he just has to be better than Hugill.
Would rather see a true Academy kid given a chance though as the above sentence would also apply to them, not exactly a high bar is it? Perfect opportunity.
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We don't want Zohore here and he doesn't want to be here and he's willing to take a wage cut to make it happen so make it happen. Don't play hardball over a fee for a guy who's a drain on wages. Be logical.
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You know we all keep posting about academy kids but some of these are 20 years old, and for me are not kids. If they are any good at all they need to be given the chance to show what they can do here - in this league. How old were the likes of Derek Statham, Len Cantello, Sir Bobby Hope etc when they played their early first team games? From memory I don't think any were much over 20 and this was in a top league, when 'physical' challenges were a lot heavier than todays powder puff stuff, and young players were expected to be able to 'stand up to it like a mon"- but that's a different story. At 19 or 20 they should be able to play a part at this level especially with experienced professionals alongside them, and should be given their chance when opportunity arises. Over to you Val - If they are good enough, they are old enough.
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It was the U23's Xxx. Zohore scored a goal, big deal. At that level he should be absolutely ripping it up.
He's useless. One footed, one paced, wins no headers, doesn't hold the ball, doesn't link up, doesn't run channels, doesn't press ....
Better than Hugill? No he isn't.
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It was the U23's Xxx. Zohore scored a goal, big deal. At that level he should be absolutely ripping it up.
He's useless. One footed, one paced, wins no headers, doesn't hold the ball, doesn't link up, doesn't run channels, doesn't press ....
Better than Hugill? No he isn't.
He does for the U23s though. Flat track bully in the playground against the kids? Pity really as he can play when he wants.
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He does for the U23s though. Flat track bully in the playground against the kids? Pity really as he can play when he wants.
It's all about levels. I'm like Messi against my six year old nephew ......
..... for the first five minutes anyway then I'm cream crackered while the duracell bunny just goes on and on and on .....
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Regarding a general U23 piece in the Athletic yesterday says we are hopeful of getting Cleary to sign a new 'proper' contract despite outside interest. Fingers crossed.
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Regarding a general U23 piece in the Athletic yesterday says we are hopeful of getting Cleary to sign a new 'proper' contract despite outside interest. Fingers crossed.
The same hope we had with Barry, Ireogbunam and Brown!
He should be 6 month in to a deal by now.
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Regarding a general U23 piece in the Athletic yesterday says we are hopeful of getting Cleary to sign a new 'proper' contract despite outside interest. Fingers crossed.
If so let's hope we make him a solid and bonafide contract offer rather than some limp attempt at discussions as implied by FIFA re Barry.
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The same hope we had with Barry, Ireogbunam and Brown!
He should be 6 month in to a deal by now.
I agree he should be tied down already. Anyone who shows genuine promise should. If Citeh scouts etc are keen then let's take more notice of our better, young players.
Yes we need to make a legitimate contract offer, one of more than £500 a week will help.
Barry we clearly didn't make a proper offer to in writing. Brown supports Chelsea no way he was turning down that money and the chance to play for his club. Ireogbunam we never gave first team minutes too so that one is disappointing. If you ain't playing why stay for less money?
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It will be interesting to see what happens with Gardner Hickman tomorrow. If as I expect he is dropped for Furlong then what sort of message does it send to the kids trying to break through?
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It will be interesting to see what happens with Gardner Hickman tomorrow. If as I expect he is dropped for Furlong then what sort of message does it send to the kids trying to break through?
be better than the person you’re trying to replace. For as good as TGH was he had a problem especially in the first half. He played well as a full back, not as a wing back.
Eventually he got the idea of where he was supposed to be but a lot of the issues we had against Hull were caused by the right side effectively having no winger half the time. Kipre, Phillips and Robinson would look up or make instinctive passes to where Furlong would usually make a run to as the wide man. TGH didn’t do that (often standing square and being the open option). This at best lead to slowdown in play and at worst the ball going out of play and losing possession.
If he wants to replace Furlong, be a better wingback. At this time he is not, but he showed he’s a fairly capable fullback and had flashes of the attacking intent required. If Ingram is the more attacking of the two I’d be interested to see if he could do it.
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Stiffs draw 1-1 at The Custard Bowl. Zohore with our goal
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be better than the person you’re trying to replace. For as good as TGH was he had a problem especially in the first half. He played well as a full back, not as a wing back.
Eventually he got the idea of where he was supposed to be but a lot of the issues we had against Hull were caused by the right side effectively having no winger half the time. Kipre, Phillips and Robinson would look up or make instinctive passes to where Furlong would usually make a run to as the wide man. TGH didn’t do that (often standing square and being the open option). This at best lead to slowdown in play and at worst the ball going out of play and losing possession.
If he wants to replace Furlong, be a better wingback. At this time he is not, but he showed he’s a fairly capable fullback and had flashes of the attacking intent required. If Ingram is the more attacking of the two I’d be interested to see if he could do it.
Orrrr......the diagonal to our right was the only offensive ploy Hull had to offer during the first half. Presumably because they thought there was a weakness there given an academy player was making his debut. The 'weakness' proved he wasn't one, grew into the game and had a largely successful debut.
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Orrrr......the diagonal to our right was the only offensive ploy Hull had to offer during the first half. Presumably because they thought there was a weakness there given an academy player was making his debut. The 'weakness' proved he wasn't one, grew into the game and had a largely successful debut.
Hull had no offensive strategy, full stop. All they had was to employ the singular Pulis tactic of run the ball up the pitch and get a set piece. As has been referenced by others this wasn't a defensive test and as i said he did a mighty fine job as a full back when required, however he needs to become a wing back and do the attacking bit more often. he showed he can do it.
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Can't speak for anyone else but TGH was my man of the match for the Hull game. Good job he was in the (apparently) wrong place at most of the right times. It's almost as though he was reading the game and responding to situations in real time.
The mark of footballing intelligence which separates the good players from the athletes. He's not the finished article and has scope for improvement but he showed far more promise as an actual all round footballer than the man he replaced.
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TGH actually changed his positioning throughout the game and as he got used to the pace and his team mates, was generally pretty close to where he was supposed to be most of the time. Showed the sort of football intelligence SmethDan was posting about. It can only be taught to a certain level, TGH looks as though he has it naturally and will be an asset for this club for years. Just hope his ability to read what he needs to do doesn't work against him and he becomes a 'utility' player. If wing back is his most natural position I hope we do not dilute his talent by forcing him in elsewhere just to get him on the pitch. I believe he is a better option at the moment than Furlong and so should get in the team on merit in the position. Certainly a good rotation option.
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Bayern Munich interested Reyes Cleary, 17.
If this lad is the real deal surely we can start giving him 30 mins off the bench and convince him to start a contract?
Rooney broke through at 16, Bale, Giggs & Sharpe at 17 and that was in the Premier League.
What have we got to lose by using him as a sub when the alternative is Hugill?
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Bayern Munich interested Reyes Cleary, 17.
If this lad is the real deal surely we can start giving him 30 mins off the bench and convince him to start a contract?
Rooney broke through at 16, Bale, Giggs & Sharpe at 17 and that was in the Premier League.
What have we got to lose by using him as a sub when the alternative is Hugill?
I've got no problem with the 30 mins off the bench - it's the contract that's the tricky part.
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Insert a release clause of £5m and offer him game time immediately, surely we can then keep him for next 18 months?
Better than losing him now for zilch.
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Insert a release clause of £5m and offer him game time immediately, surely we can then keep him for next 18 months?
Better than losing him now for zilch.
Him and his advisers have to agree to everything though- I don't think there's any 'surely' about it. Some of these things may have been tried with others. They'll know he can get more money elsewhere without waiting the 18 months.
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Val mentioned we have to change something to stop losing our kids and the starting point unfortunately has to be the contract offer. Only on production of a competetive offer will they start considering the route to first team etc.
Even then......if BM come knocking and the kid is confident enough to embrace the cultural and language changes then you just would, wouldn't you? Chance of a lifetime. Of course if the Villa came knocking I would happily tell them to **** right off, and would even queston the validity of a move to bottom half PL. But if it's a top PL or European club you'd be a fool not to take the opportunity.
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Val mentioned we have to change something to stop losing our kids and the starting point unfortunately has to be the contract offer. Only on production of a competetive offer will they start considering the route to first team etc.
Even then......if BM come knocking and the kid is confident enough to embrace the cultural and language changes then you just would, wouldn't you? Chance of a lifetime. Of course if the Villa came knocking I would happily tell them to **** right off, and would even queston the validity of a move to bottom half PL. But if it's a top PL or European club you'd be a fool not to take the opportunity.
It's the corrupt system that needs to change. Doesn't matter what contract we offer we are not going to compete, the big clubs know that and it allows them to carry on with there "hook a duck" approach. Pick enough ducks, eventually you win a prize, the rest you throw back into the game.
The corruption is that the governing bodies not only know this is the case they actively encourage it. They don't care that it is killing smaller clubs, they only care about their cash cows at the top.
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Ive lost all hope in the youth system....once the big guns come calling its murder she wrote.
i always think the club that brings them through the academy should have first choice on them, but with the pre-requisite that they are offered a contract in good time and not at the last minute.
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It's the corrupt system that needs to change. Doesn't matter what contract we offer we are not going to compete, the big clubs know that and it allows them to carry on with there "hook a duck" approach. Pick enough ducks, eventually you win a prize, the rest you throw back into the game.
The corruption is that the governing bodies not only know this is the case they actively encourage it. They don't care that it is killing smaller clubs, they only care about their cash cows at the top.
This in spades. Essentially the system is utterly corrupt and unfit for purpose. A massive overhaul is required. While we do need to offer better pathways it's not always possible given stages of physical/mental development or technical ability in younger age groups.
But it becomes even harder for the necessary development to take place and enable that pathway if they're being cherry picked. Horrible way to look at it but academy players are essentially low hanging fruit for clubs with better financial resources than our own m
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Ought to be a standard across the board charge for taking young players at 17 or under from the parent club pre first pro contract. Say £3m to cover expenses and future benefits, plus bonuses for first team appearances etc and a 40% sell on fee. Make the rich bar stewards take a bigger financial risk. This would apply to all clubs, and would be mandatory for the 'buying club', but the selling club could, if they so desired, waive or modify any part of the conditions of sale except the up front payment. After the signing of the first pro contract normal conditions would prevail and length of contract remaining etc. would come into play.
Edit
I know it ain't never going to happen because the londonmanc mafia and their acolytes at the seal pen, and the newly rich again Northeastern mob will prevent it.
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Ought to be a standard across the board charge for taking young players at 17 or under from the parent club pre first pro contract. Say £3m to cover expenses and future benefits, plus bonuses for first team appearances etc and a 40% sell on fee. Make the rich bar stewards take a bigger financial risk. This would apply to all clubs, and would be mandatory for the 'buying club', but the selling club could, if they so desired, waive or modify any part of the conditions of sale except the up front payment. After the signing of the first pro contract normal conditions would prevail and length of contract remaining etc. would come into play.
Edit
I know it ain't never going to happen because the londonmanc mafia and their acolytes at the seal pen, and the newly rich again Northeastern mob will prevent it.
What you are suggesting is a sensible, FAIR, system, of course they won't allow it.
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U23's are beating Arsenal away 3-0 after 20 minutes so far.
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Clearly scored again, I know the step up is enormous but surely it’s worth sticking him in a few match day squads get him used to the experience, show him he’s not far off. If we’re either 3 up or 3 down against someone give him 10 minutes at the end of a game. What’s there too loose? Worst he looks out of his depth & he realises what level he needs to be at to make it professionally, at best he shows he’s capable at this level & signs a professional deal here.
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Been struggling to find a stream but i found one on Twitch!
https://www.twitch.tv/arsenalofficial
2nd half about to start,
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Fellows, Cleary and Tulloch (hes back!) scored for us.
I would defnitely give Cleary a chance. Won't hurt. Our front 3 doesnt work anyway.
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Fellows looks good. Impressed me every time i've seen him play. Direct, aggressive and no frucks given.
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4-0, Joshua i think for us
Edit - Arsenal commentators say given to Cleary
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Looked like the big No5 scored after the head tennis , won 4 - 1 .
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More clubs getting wind of Cleary tonight, not least Arsenal.
3 months ago (when still 17), WBA coaching staff should've identified him as 1st team material and thereby offer him a contract, with the promise of 1st team opportunities.
You could say they've reacted far too slowly again.
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We’ll probably find out the person responsible for any graduation of players, is knee deep sorting out the ticketing problem.
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Only watched 2nd half and Cleary played wide left .Didn’t see much of him as despite score line Arsenal had most of the play.
Some notable absentees again tonight including Faal and Castro .
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Only watched 2nd half and Cleary played wide left .Didn’t see much of him as despite score line Arsenal had most of the play.
Some notable absentees again tonight including Faal and Castro .
Castro's injured apparently, no idea regarding the details though.
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From the short highlights it looked like the U23's were still playing a high press and at least 2 of the goals came from this.
Typical Albion for the Arsenal goal big No5 dithers on the ball, loses possession in the box and the opposition score.
Keeper should have done better with it too the ball just seemed to roll under him.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/albion-cruise-pl-cup-victory-over-arsenal
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Got to say we were ably assisted by some pretty gruesome Graeme Jonesesque playing it out from defence by Arsenal.
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More clubs getting wind of Cleary tonight, not least Arsenal.
3 months ago (when still 17), WBA coaching staff should've identified him as 1st team material and thereby offer him a contract, with the promise of 1st team opportunities.
You could say they've reacted far too slowly again.
Do we know for sure that they haven't?
If his agent knows the clubs mentioned are interested, I don't think we have a prayer of offering him anything close to competitive.
Plus, if we gave big contracts to every promising 17 year old we had, we would be even more skint than we are and the majority just don't make it. Cleary could negotiate a very sweet deal and end up another Adil Nabi, who was every bit as promising at 17.
Not having a pop at you, I just think this is one area where it is difficult to criticise the club, as I've said before, it's the corrupt system that is strangling us.
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Do we know for sure that they haven't?
If his agent knows the clubs mentioned are interested, I don't think we have a prayer of offering him anything close to competitive.
Plus, if we gave big contracts to every promising 17 year old we had, we would be even more skint than we are and the majority just don't make it. Cleary could negotiate a very sweet deal and end up another Adil Nabi, who was every bit as promising at 17.
Not having a pop at you, I just think this is one area where it is difficult to criticise the club, as I've said before, it's the corrupt system that is strangling us.
I'm not sure. I have a gut feeling of not having much faith in the coaching set up. When Bilic came in, he implored that Nathan Ferguson be promoted to the 1st team, why didn't any other coach see this?
There've been examples of kids moving on, not given a chance here, and players in front of them were just winding up their careers.
In hindsight, I believe that many would state that Reyes Cleary would've been No Worse than Hugill this season.
So I do wonder how bright people are in identifying those who'll make it and those who don't?
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Furthermore, we are paying Hugill huge wages here and possible loan fee?
I would've taken the chance of offering a highly promising 17 year old an attractive contract instead in the hope of him earning us a lot of money in future.
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Furthermore, we are paying Hugill huge wages here and possible loan fee?
I would've taken the chance of offering a highly promising 17 year old an attractive contract instead in the hope of him earning us a lot of money in future.
I don't disagree with any of that and would advocate Cleary being on the bench, minimum.
Without knowing what the contract discussions have been though, it's hard to criticise the club. We just don't have the resources to offer big contracts to 17 year olds, remember, very few of us had even heard of him until a few weeks ago. If anything, it would also increase pressure, on the Academy, because agents of other kid's would then increase their demands.
At that age form is too sporadic for us to commit en-masse, unfortunately the richer clubs can, and that's what we see happening.
Hook a Duck.
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Without the media suggesting that some powerful foreign clubs were eyeing up Cleary would there be such a clamour for his promotion to the first team squad ?
In the eyes of the age group coaches at U23 level at least he would seem to be behind the likes of Windsor , Faal , Soule , Tulloch and possibly the lads Malcolm and Morton who have gone out on loan as well as quite often having Zohore around . To leapfrog over all of those seems that either somebody in the academy / age group / reserve set up has got it seriously wrong or it is a rather large leap of faith from supporters.
At the moment having seen very little of him he seems a very powerful lad , whether this is natural or just he has developed physically quicker than most of his age only time will tell,who is a decent finisher but has a first touch that needs improvement. Given that what used to qualify as reserve team football is now very soft it is very difficult to have a clue how he would get on at senior level
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It would seem that this lad is certainly not the finished product. His first touch might need some work, but he appears to have what cannot be taught - which is to be able to score goals. We had another lad here who supposedly had a poor first touch who went on to become a leg end for one of our rivals- and just happened to score a few goals along the way. We must not let this sort of tragedy happen again. Ok we are not able to offer the inflated salary of a big operator but we can give him the chance to make his name and move on for a whole lot more in 3 years or so if he wants to. I sometimes wonder what advice these youngsters received from the coaches here at the time who jumped ship to the vile.
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Virtually all of us on here knew what we were getting with Hugill - a physical player, poor touch, good in air, not a potent goalscorer.
Whats played out over last 3 months was expected - little impact, lack of quality and 1 goal.
However, it may not necessarily be Val's fault, have the Coaching staff given him the necessary lowdown on the merits of the young kids. Val started about in the Summer and the new campaign was on us within weeks!
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Bayern's rivals Dortmund certainly got it right with Jude Bellingham.
Blues had the logic to blood him in Championship action before that big club came calling.....
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Virtually all of us on here knew what we were getting with Hugill - a physical player, poor touch, good in air, not a potent goalscorer.
Whats played out over last 3 months was expected - little impact, lack of quality and 1 goal.
However, it may not necessarily be Val's fault, have the Coaching staff given him the necessary lowdown on the merits of the young kids. Val started about in the Summer and the new campaign was on us within weeks!
So what do you suggest we do with the likes of Soule , Windsor , Faal , Malcolm et al who going strictly off team sheets seem to be ahead of Cleary . Surely it is unlikely all will be offered contracts or will want to stay
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I'm far less bothered with Academy players being poached than most people. However promising they are hardly any of them make it anyway.
Even the 1976 FA Youth Cup winning team only really produced Statham. Mark Grew made a few appearances but was never really "a hit". Steve Lynex made a few later on but was pretty much meh.
We have Gardner-Hickman coming through. Caleb Taylor, Ethan Ingram, Ray Tulloch on the fringes, that's probably as good as it's ever been.
I remember Louie Barry bring described as the best finisher seen at youth level, he can't even get in the team at Ipswich and people had a meltdown on him ending up at Villa via Barce (ridiculous move).
Cleary has pace and power but its one thing utilising those assets against youngsters, when you get into the first team early developed kids like him can be destroyed by seasoned pro's, fully developed men.
Cleary might make it at our level but I wouldn't be betting any money on it.
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So what do you suggest we do with the likes of Soule , Windsor , Faal , Malcolm et al who going strictly off team sheets seem to be ahead of Cleary . Surely it is unlikely all will be offered contracts or will want to stay
All of them should be released, none of them will make it. Faal the best chance and I'd say that's 20 / 80. Windsor, Soule are men now really and not even close. They WILL be released, 100% guaranteed.
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So what do you suggest we do with the likes of Soule , Windsor , Faal , Malcolm et al who going strictly off team sheets seem to be ahead of Cleary . Surely it is unlikely all will be offered contracts or will want to stay
I'm not on the WBA payroll, those decisions are not mine. :)
There has to be a pathway to the 1st team otherwise there's no point at all.
After quite rightly parting ways with Robson-Kanu, there is a clear void in the striker role. It sounds as if we have many candidates.
However, it does irk me that we seem to be a club for retiring has beens that dictate to the club how long they want to stay, and not the other way around!
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Without the media suggesting that some powerful foreign clubs were eyeing up Cleary would there be such a clamour for his promotion to the first team squad ?
In the eyes of the age group coaches at U23 level at least he would seem to be behind the likes of Windsor , Faal , Soule , Tulloch and possibly the lads Malcolm and Morton who have gone out on loan as well as quite often having Zohore around . To leapfrog over all of those seems that either somebody in the academy / age group / reserve set up has got it seriously wrong or it is a rather large leap of faith from supporters.
At the moment having seen very little of him he seems a very powerful lad , whether this is natural or just he has developed physically quicker than most of his age only time will tell,who is a decent finisher but has a first touch that needs improvement. Given that what used to qualify as reserve team football is now very soft it is very difficult to have a clue how he would get on at senior level
oh goodness no, most wouldn’t have ever heard of him without the media despite him being scouted by these clubs for a few years now. From what I know he’s training around the first team (as are a fair few others) so it’s not like he’s being ignored in the sticks and only the fans can see what professionals can’t.
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Bayern's rivals Dortmund certainly got it right with Jude Bellingham.
Blues had the logic to blood him in Championship action before that big club came calling.....
Not sure that's strictly true. I think Bellingham agreed to sign for Blues knowing that the big move was on and, as he is a staunch Blues fan, he wanted to maximise their profit.
If he hadn't done so, Dortmund would have got him for nothing, however, he did risk them pulling the plug due to the fee. Rumour had it though that everything was agreed by all parties, which doesn't happen often.
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Cleary is right under our nose, 17 is old enough to make your professional 1st team debut.
I csn understand him not playing last season in the Premier, however now the standard is much lower.
If we lose him soon, there is error on WBA's part. Someone has made a judgement that Hugill is superior to all these waiting kids, and not only that we are paying more in fees/wages for Hugill's services.
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Cleary is right under our nose, 17 is old enough to make your professional 1st team debut.
I csn understand him not playing last season in the Premier, however now the standard is much lower.
If we lose him soon, there is error on WBA's part. Someone has made a judgement that Hugill is superior to all these waiting kids, and not only that we are paying more in fees/wages for Hugill's services.
The person who has made the judgement will have seen them both play/train a significant number of times each week.
Do you think they would choose to play one if they believe the other would be a better option
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The person who has made the judgement will have seen them both play/train a significant number of times each week.
Do you think they would choose to play one if they believe the other would be a better option
Think it through....
Ismael landed at the Hawthorns only 43 days before the Championship campaign started. On arrival he's reliant on the coaching staff to deliver an accurate assessment if the playing personnel playing U23 football. He cannot make judgement himself at that time.
Whatever information was relayed Ismael thought it necessary to dip into the loan market for Hugill (at decent expense).
We are now frantically trying to get a very promising 17 year old to sign a contract with the vultures circling. Could the contract have been offered earlier?
If this was a one-off, then I think fans would be more understanding, the fact it's happened before is maddening and shows lessons aren't being learnt!
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The ONLY way to know whether or not youngsters like Cleary can make the step up is to give them the opportunity. We now know that we have at least one stand-in for Furlong, maybe even a challenger. Why not see if Cleary or any of our other young strikers can do as well as or even better than what we have in the first team central position. From what I have seen there even looks to be ready made front three developing in the u23's, and it might just be time to see what they can do in a first eleven set up. Maybe a strong cup eleven to start with using the first eleven defence and midfield, and the u23 front three.
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How do we know that he hasn't been offered a contract but refused because he thinks he can get more elsewhere? Val then takes the view that there's no point playing him if he's just going to do an Izzy Brown?
Personally I'd like nothing better than seeing him score the winner at Udders, but there are too many unknowns to just use his case as another stick to beat the club with.
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Also, from what I heard, he played wide left against backside so, if he did come in, he'd probably replace Grant, our only scoring forward, rather than Hugill anyway. Gawd elp us.
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How do we know that he hasn't been offered a contract but refused because he thinks he can get more elsewhere? Val then takes the view that there's no point playing him if he's just going to do an Izzy Brown?
Personally I'd like nothing better than seeing him score the winner at Udders, but there are too many unknowns to just use his case as another stick to beat the club with.
I agree in principle.
However they've been so many mistakes over the past couple of years: in losing youngsters, poor transfer market business, selection mistakes. This doesn't inspire confidence, in fact the opposite.....
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Most of the above has come about because of Dowling and poaching of our prospects by former coaching team. Ones get the club and hopefully as new youngsters emerge a former ‘ boss ‘ will have less pull . It will be interesting over time to see how many of those we’ve had nicked go on to make a top class career for themselves
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I wouldn't be surprised if he pitches up at Villa. They will be aware of him as they were formally coaches of his.
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We need to keep Reyes 'because of this:
I can see Cleary scoring for West Brom,
There are no Defenders in his way,
Gone are the hard times in front of goal,
It's going to be a 3 point Hawthorns match day
Feel free to edit.......
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Been struggling to find a stream but i found one on Twitch!
https://www.twitch.tv/arsenalofficial
2nd half about to start,
Thanks Gaz.
Having watched a good chunk of it, some of our U23's look quite promising. Certainly more than a match for Arsenal's youngsters. I'd be godsmacked if none of these made it at professional level.
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So apparently less than 6 months after being ignored by every other professional team on the planet, 20 year old Quevin Castro is attracting interest from the likes of Benfica, PSV and Dortmund.
Reads like a filler piece but take from it what you will
https://www.suffolknews.co.uk/bury-st-edmunds/sport/transfer-talk-top-european-clubs-eye-move-for-castro-9225888/
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So apparently less than 6 months after being ignored by every other professional team on the planet, 20 year old Quevin Castro is attracting interest from the likes of Benfica, PSV and Dortmund.
Reads like a filler piece but take from it what you will
https://www.suffolknews.co.uk/bury-st-edmunds/sport/transfer-talk-top-european-clubs-eye-move-for-castro-9225888/
For young players like Castro, it is vital they get the right coaching. From the videos, its obvious he has bags of natural skill, good control and first touch, and lots of pace.
These type of kids can go 2 ways. He either thinks he's the world's greatest young talent and just plays for himself, or he learns to play for the team. He needs the right coaches to knock him into shape. I hope we have them.
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Find this Castro story hard to believe. Anybody could have taken him for nothing in the summer , plus he’s missed a few weeks with injury and these clubs are supposed to be circling …….
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Find this Castro story hard to believe. Anybody could have taken him for nothing in the summer , plus he’s missed a few weeks with injury and these clubs are supposed to be circling …….
Filling web space on the back of the Cleary stories. Based mainly on the fact he played his youth football in Portugal.
The usual pathway to play for Benfica, PSV and Benfica I guess....
Thetford, Leinston, Bury, 6 months at West Brom, Benfica.
😁
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Thought a number of our under 23’s would be pushing for starting berths in first team or at least make the bench. Another reason that I’m not convinced in Ishmael too loyal to senior pro’s no matter what their form. Don’t think we will do much business in January so he should be utilising our youth system.
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Thought a number of our under 23’s would be pushing for starting berths in first team or at least make the bench. Another reason that I’m not convinced in Ishmael too loyal to senior pro’s no matter what their form. Don’t think we will do much business in January so he should be utilising our youth system.
One of my biggest disappointments with him is that he hasn't done as promised pre season, both with his lack of pressing football and his lack of opportunities for academy kids. Surely they are worth more chances than they are getting?
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Time for the likes of Cleary and tulloch to have a go now, what can we lose
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Thought a number of our under 23’s would be pushing for starting berths in first team or at least make the bench. Another reason that I’m not convinced in Ishmael too loyal to senior pro’s no matter what their form. Don’t think we will do much business in January so he should be utilising our youth system.
Or he continued with TGH when Furlong was fit again?
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Cleary scored again is he going to get a chance at least on the bench? Would rather see a young raw kid playing than a journeyman who cannot trap a bag of cement...
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Zohore didn't feature yesterday, so presumably he's either injured or is in the picture to be involved tonight in some way.
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Zohore didn't feature yesterday, so presumably he's either injured or is in the picture to be involved tonight in some way.
he’s injured, out for a couple months I think?
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There was no Windsor or Castro either .
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NIce goal again from CLeary last night. They put it up just on Twitter.
Someone said something on here that they won't consider him for first team yet due to fitness concerns i think?
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he’s injured, out for a couple months I think?
Yeah he's injured. Out for six weeks I read somewhere.
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There was no Windsor or Castro either .
Think Castro is injured as well.
Not sure about Windsor, could he make a surprise appearance on the bench?
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Think Castro is injured as well.
Not sure about Windsor, could he make a surprise appearance on the bench?
Absolutely no chance.
Players get left out of the U23'S all the time for lots of reasons. Shouldn't read anything in to it when they are for the most part.
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Just a surprise that Windsor wasn’t even on the bench , I to believe Castro is injured .
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Fellows puts us 1 up at Southampton.
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2-1 down now after 51 mins.
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No Zohore again today, is he injured?
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No Zohore again today, is he injured?
Yes he is apparently
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No Zohore again today, is he injured?
Yes, I think I read he would be out until well into the new year, which may prevent us moving him on, unfortunately.
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3-1 now :(
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Yes, I think I read he would be out until well into the new year, which may prevent us moving him on, unfortunately.
To be honest mate i don't think there would of been many if any takers.
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3-1 now :(
Castro injured ?
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U23s beating Boro, great finish by Cleary apparently.
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He gave it a fair old wallop !
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It’s live on WBA TV
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He gave it a fair old wallop !
Have you got a stream sir? Or are you a ST holder/member
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S/T oh and he’s just got another bit messier this one 2-0
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Wonder if he will ever be given a chance in the first team or sods off before then?
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Not much we can do if his agent gets in his ear and tells him not to sign a contract
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Not much we can do if his agent gets in his ear and tells him not to sign a contract
We could show him he's got a future here, maybe it's just me.
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HT 2-0 yet Boro have been much the better side . Our GK arguably our best player,Tulloch and Fellows not really in the game . As for Cleary on this evidence he has much he needs to improve on and can see why there would be a reluctance to promote him yet. His first touch has been particularly poor the ball constantly bouncing away off him there is however no doubt he has an eye for goal, his first goal was Regisesque !
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HT 2-0 yet Boro have been much the better side . Our GK arguably our best player,Tulloch and Fellows not really in the game . As for Cleary on this evidence he has much he needs to improve on and can see why there would be a reluctance to promote him yet. His first touch has been particularly poor the ball constantly bouncing away off him there is however no doubt he has an eye for goal, his first goal was Regisesque !
Thanks for the report. Everyone suggests he is indeed young and raw but can finish and as you say knows where the net is. Be interesting to see what happens with him.
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Would echo previous poster.
Cleary lost the ball a lot, in easy positions and gave the ball away with simple but wayward passes.
However, his first goal was a class roll the defender and strike into the bottom corner from 20 yards. Great strike.
Second was messy finish on a corner - however showed good strength.
Didn't look ready for first team yet however, he Cleary has power and ace for goal... His first one reminded me of Cyrille. Long, long way to go however....
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Apparently it’s 2-1 either I nodded off or the missus got me doing something and I missed it !
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Apparently it’s 2-1 either I nodded off or the missus got me doing something and I missed it !
Journos on Twitter said they scored on stroke of half time
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Thanks for the report. Everyone suggests he is indeed young and raw but can finish and as you say knows where the net is. Be interesting to see what happens with him.
We had a young striker whose first touch was poor but knew where the net was we let him go for £60,000 his name was Steve Bull.
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Journos on Twitter said they scored on stroke of half time
Possibly I thought he’d blown for HT and went off to do something !
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Hat trick 3-2
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Cleary - this kid really seems to have something!
If he signed a contract it would be fantastic and he could really take the role of Hugill, impact sub for 20 or 30 mins.
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Was Fellows no 7 tonight? the one that looks a bit like Bobby Hope. He looked really down, not truly committed what I saw of it. He did not join the celebrations fro the third goal which was a good strike from Cleary. He was heavily marked and didn't get any decent service with the lump it up to the forwards tactics.
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U18's come from 2-0 down to win 3-2 in the youth cup, 2 goals from guess who and 1 from Richards
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U18's come from 2-0 down to win 3-2 in the youth cup, 2 goals from guess who and 1 from Richards
How old is Rico Richards? He seems to have been around for yonks.
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How old is Rico Richards? He seems to have been around for yonks.
18 , he was born September 03.
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U18's come from 2-0 down to win 3-2 in the youth cup, 2 goals from guess who and 1 from Richards
Richards will claim it but it's an own goal all day long.
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PL2 cup at Bournemouth we are 2 - 0 down at HT
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Lads lost 4-0 tonight
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Our Academy is ranked 15th, but we were 9th at one stage.
I think Mr Dowling has a few questions to answer
https://twitter.com/AnalyticsWba/status/1470739155902767104
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I think I know why that happened, wouldn’t it have been previously higher because the likes of Harper/Edwards/Leko/Field we’re playing in the Championship or PL with us, therefore bloating our numbers in a fairly artificial way?
Now they are gone to lower league teams, it’s reduced the overall number of points. Would that be a valid hypothesis?
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Anyone know if fans can attend as normal tonight at Bucks Head?
I rang AFC Telford and left a message but no reply.
Don't know whether Covid 19 limitations are in place?
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PL2 game tonight we’ve only named 4 subs , a few usual suspects missing including TGH , Andrews , and Shaw. Cleary, Faal , Windsor and Fellows all start !
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3 goals in 4 minutes and we've equalised. 2-2
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Andrews was annunced as getting our second form a penalty. Cleary won it.
Fulham have some slick passing ability.
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So he did , when I looked at team sheet I didn’t think he was there , must be an age thing :D ;D
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2-4 Ollie O'Neil got two from the same position across the goalie. Getting outplayed
Can't see Cleary ever getting a game out of Val. He's sluggish unless there's a chance of glory; does not go in for 50/50's and only makes a token efforts at pressing.
Can't recognose Fellows either he went off early or he's being reserved for the bench.
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2-4 Ollie O'Neil got two from the same position across the goalie. Getting outplayed
Can't see Cleary ever getting a game out of Val. He's sluggish unless there's a chance of glory; does not go in for 50/50's and only makes a token efforts at pressing.
Can't recognose Fellows either he went off early or he's being reserved for the bench.
Sounds like the complete opposite of Hugill!
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2-4 Ollie O'Neil got two from the same position across the goalie. Getting outplayed
Can't see Cleary ever getting a game out of Val. He's sluggish unless there's a chance of glory; does not go in for 50/50's and only makes a token efforts at pressing.
Can't recognose Fellows either he went off early or he's being reserved for the bench.
Fellows played left wing back
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2-4 Ollie O'Neil got two from the same position across the goalie. Getting outplayed
Can't see Cleary ever getting a game out of Val. He's sluggish unless there's a chance of glory; does not go in for 50/50's and only makes a token efforts at pressing.
Can't recognose Fellows either he went off early or he's being reserved for the bench.
That's some really interesting info on Cleary, and kind of what I had anticipated after the recent interview with Val. On the radar, scoring goals in yoofs, 23s and training but not ready to play the role required. A lot of fans calling for Cleary won't have actually seen him play, just seen clips on the internet. Like it or not Val asks a lot of his front three in terms of pressing, which is also why we have the 60 minute subs. If he's not convinced Cleary has that in his locker he won't play regardless of how many goals he scores.
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That's some really interesting info on Cleary, and kind of what I had anticipated after the recent interview with Val. On the radar, scoring goals in yoofs, 23s and training but not ready to play the role required. A lot of fans calling for Cleary won't have actually seen him play, just seen clips on the internet. Like it or not Val asks a lot of his front three in terms of pressing, which is also why we have the 60 minute subs. If he's not convinced Cleary has that in his locker he won't play regardless of how many goals he scores.
On that basis why can Cleary not be given a 30 minute cameo (60-90mins) to see what he can do at this level? He cannot be less productive than a knackered Hugill
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1 striker who can run, tries but can't play football at all and then another one who doesn't try but is good at banging them in. Blend them and we are laughing.
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1 striker who can run, tried but can't play football at all and then another one who doesn't try but is good at banging them in. Blend them and we are laughing.
We are struggling for goals so that still makes Cleary the better option.
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We are struggling for goals so that still makes Cleary the better option.
I agree but seems other don't see it that way inclduing the main man VI
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On that basis why can Cleary not be given a 30 minute cameo (60-90mins) to see what he can do at this level? He cannot be less productive than a knackered Hugill
My thoughts entirely. I am not qualified to pass judgement on Cleary, having never seem him 'live' To bring him on as others tire, including the opposition, has to be the way to integrate him.
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One player not doing what they're meant to can break a press, particularly if they're a centre forward, which is an important role and often initiates the press, or needs to react to a trigger.
1-0 down with 10 to go, yeah, alright, in my view. But 30 mins to go at 0-0 and it's probably a risk Val doesn't think is worth taking.
Throw in any behind the scenes contract shenanigans, and it's not hard to see why he hasn't played yet.
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Cleary saying on Instagram that he has an announcement today.
I suspect he will be off...
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Cleary saying on Instagram that he has an announcement today.
I suspect he will be off...
Can I have a fiver on Villa?
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Can I have a fiver on Villa?
It would be a bad joke, and one we've heard before. Literally stockpiling are academy players.
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Cleary saying on Instagram that he has an announcement today.
I suspect he will be off...
Looks like he's going to Barnsley on loan.
He's posted "a new era for this page" with an arrow to Barnsley (A) on his landing page.
Possibly as a make weight for the lad coming here?
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Cleary saying on Instagram that he has an announcement today.
I suspect he will be off...
got his instagram please? I want to be nosey. I can find one for him but it looks fake and no updates recently.
EDIT NEVERMIND FOUND HIM
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got his instagram please? I want to be nosey. I can find one for him but it looks fake and no updates recently.
EDIT NEVERMIND FOUND HIM
Careful with the online stalking Gaz'. Don't forget he's still classed as a minor in England, Wales and Northern Ireland ;D ;) .
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Careful with the online stalking Gaz'. Don't forget he's still classed as a minor in England, Wales and Northern Ireland ;D ;) .
I've already got restrictions Dan! What is one more?! ;D
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Can we loan him if we don't own him?
If it is Barnsley then could be a makeweight in the Woodrow deal. If so, I sincerely hope Cleary doesn't outscore him!
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It would seem odd for us to loan him out without him having signed a deal here. It would seem even stranger for him to have signed permanent for Barnsley.
It would be good to see the club announce a loan to Barnsley at the same time as signing a contract. With Barnsley as they are, it will be a baptism of fire for him in first team football. I’d have thought a loan to a league one club doing well would be better for the lad
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It would seem odd for us to loan him out without him having signed a deal here. It would seem even stranger for him to have signed permanent for Barnsley.
It would be good to see the club announce a loan to Barnsley at the same time as signing a contract. With Barnsley as they are, it will be a baptism of fire for him in first team football. I’d have thought a loan to a league one club doing well would be better for the lad
The other way to look at it is we are confident of signing a striker in the window.
Maybe he has signed a new deal? - because I didn't think you could loan players out if they were on scholarship terms?
Very odd turn of events.
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Looks like he's going to Barnsley on loan.
He's posted "a new era for this page" with an arrow to Barnsley (A) on his landing page.
Possibly as a make weight for the lad coming here?
Or was that an old post saying that he was in the squad for Albion when we played away at Barnsley?
Personally, still think he is off. I would be stunned if he signed for us.
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Or was that an old post saying that he was in the squad for Albion when we played away at Barnsley?
Personally, still think he is off. I would be stunned if he signed for us.
I don’t use Instagram but That does seem to make more sense!
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Or was that an old post saying that he was in the squad for Albion when we played away at Barnsley?
Personally, still think he is off. I would be stunned if he signed for us.
Looking at it again I think you might be right.
Can't see anything about an announcement today.
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West Brom have offered a contract to Reyes Cleary, and are wary of interest from Bayern Munich
[@MailSport] #WBA
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West Brom have offered a contract to Reyes Cleary, and are wary of interest from Bayern Munich
[@MailSport] #WBA
Let's hope it's a proper contract offer this time via official methods unlike the Louie Barry case
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From the Athletic with the usual 5am updates
"He is yet to sign a first professional contract but there is growing confidence that Cleary will not follow in the footsteps of the previous academy prospects to leave the club. He has, The Athletic understands, been encouraged by Albion’s plans for his future and the parties are not far apart financially."
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He's been on West Brom Xtra again hasn't he...... ;D ;) ?
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He's been on West Brom Xtra again hasn't he...... ;D ;) ?
I've not been on Xtra this week, has he claimed he is signing here?
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I've not been on Xtra this week, has he claimed he is signing here?
I was referring to whomever wrote the Athletic update not your good self. I've no idea what the Xtra's angle is or whether they have one. I wasn't being obtuse, my comment was tongue in cheek ;D .
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what is West Brom Xtra ? googled it and zip
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what is West Brom Xtra ? googled it and zip
Tw@tter account (sorry Mods)..........
https://mobile.twitter.com/westbromxtra
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Tw@tter account (sorry Mods)..........
https://mobile.twitter.com/westbromxtra
cheers dan
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I was referring to whomever wrote the Athletic update not your good self. I've no idea what the Xtra's angle is or whether they have one. I wasn't being obtuse, my comment was tongue in cheek ;D .
No worries mate I'm just quickly posting when I get a minute at work so I'm out of the loop lately apart from when I do my morning news checks before work!
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Callum Morton recalled by us. 7 goals in 22 games for Fleetwood.
Wonder where he's going?
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Callum Morton recalled by us. 7 goals in 22 games for Fleetwood.
Wonder where he's going?
rumour is Peterborough.
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Callum Morton recalled by us. 7 goals in 22 games for Fleetwood.
Wonder where he's going?
He feels a bit like a sale really. Heading for around 13 goes in league 1, which feels like 8 goals in the championship. Still young and returning from injury but ideally needed him to really fire at league 1 level this season.
Time on his hands though.
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Fellows needs a loan into league one or league 2.
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Fellows needs a loan into league one or league 2.
He looks good but also looks like he needs to build a bit of strength and canniness … could say the same for Grady ???
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Fellows needs a loan into league one or league 2.
I agree with this. Clearly not ready to play at our level but lots of potential.
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He feels a bit like a sale really. Heading for around 13 goes in league 1, which feels like 8 goals in the championship. Still young and returning from injury but ideally needed him to really fire at league 1 level this season.
Time on his hands though.
Three of Morton’s goals were against an u23 side in the checkatrade. He’s only got four in the league but he’s played in a wider position at times. Unless he was unhappy, I’m not sure why we’ve recalled him.
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He looks good but also looks like he needs to build a bit of strength and canniness … could say the same for Grady ???
That sort of sums it up - wingers don't always look good, sometimes they are anonymous in games but others they are dangerous. If Fellows needs to build a bit of strength I'd say he's maybe best to stay with us and do that. Canniness ? Maybe, but it's that thing where wingers need to be direct and decisive even if they do take the wrong option on occasions. If they dwell on the ball too long they can become less of a handful. Harvey Barnes didn't always take the right option or execute everything perfectly.
Fellows looks quicker and more direct over 20 or 30 yards than Grady currently does.
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Three of Morton’s goals were against an u23 side in the checkatrade. He’s only got four in the league but he’s played in a wider position at times. Unless he was unhappy, I’m not sure why we’ve recalled him.
I was unaware he was playing in wide positions, but that could be why we have taken him back (maybe we feel he is better suited centrally. If the P'boro rumours are true then it's a move that makes sense. Ferguson and P'boro have a record of being very good at providing opportunities for attackers to shine (Clarke-Harris, Dembele, Toney, Marriott, Washington, Assombalonga, Tomlin, Gayle, Mackail-Smith, Boyd). They are a Strikers dream club.
If Morton is going there it makes perfect sense - they might even buy him next season with a big sell on clause.. The only other explanation is that he is audititioning to be Hugill's "replacement".
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I find transfermarkt really good for stats on minutes and positions.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/callum-morton/leistungsdaten/spieler/492690
He’s missed the last five completely, but prior to that he played 4 left wing, although it might be more of a wide left in a front three.
I don’t think he’ll play centrally for P’boro, surely that Clark-Harrris’ position.
It could be a good move for him, but if he doesn’t get minutes it’s no good for anyone.
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Apparently Arsenal have signed Lino Da Cruz Sousa from our under 18’s.
Says he is a 16 year old brazilian born left back who is highly rated.
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Chris Wood is set to sign for Newcastle for a fee rumoured to be £25m. It takes his accumulated career transfers fees to a reported £44m - of which we only received £1m.
I make Wood the most expensive WBA academy players in our history, however on a wider note it has got me thinking about the academy age group that came through around 2007-2009. Have we ever produced a better academy age group than that?
In addition to Chris Wood's £44m, Saido Berahino, Kemar Roofe, Romaine Sawyers and George Thorne have racked up around £32m in transfer fees as well, meaning that age group have cost just shy of £80m across their career. Staggering when you consider how few first team appearances they made for the club while they were in their first spells with the club.
Add to that list Ryan Allsop currently playing first team for Derby County, Paul Downing at Portsmouth, Liam O'Neil at league 1 Cambridge, Donervan Daniels at league 1 Crewe, Sam Manton playing football league for the last decade before dropping down to the semi pro ranks in the last year or two and Adil Nabi playing top flight football in Greece (Omar Bogle at Doncaster also player with the same age group albeit may have been released just prior to getting pro terms).
It's an incredible assortment of players who in their late 20's have had brilliant careers in the game and all come from the same generation.
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Chris Wood is set to sign for Newcastle for a fee rumoured to be £25m. It takes his accumulated career transfers fees to a reported £44m - of which we only received £1m.
I make Wood the most expensive WBA academy players in our history, however on a wider note it has got me thinking about the academy age group that came through around 2007-2009. Have we ever produced a better academy age group than that?
In addition to Chris Wood's £44m, Saido Berahino, Kemar Roofe, Romaine Sawyers and George Thorne have racked up around £32m in transfer fees as well, meaning that age group have cost just shy of £80m across their career. Staggering when you consider how few first team appearances they made for the club while they were in their first spells with the club.
Add to that list Ryan Allsop currently playing first team for Derby County, Paul Downing at Portsmouth, Liam O'Neil at league 1 Cambridge, Donervan Daniels at league 1 Crewe, Sam Manton playing football league for the last decade before dropping down to the semi pro ranks in the last year or two and Adil Nabi playing top flight football in Greece (Omar Bogle at Doncaster also player with the same age group albeit may have been released just prior to getting pro terms).
It's an incredible assortment of players who in their late 20's have had brilliant careers in the game and all come from the same generation.
Really interesting post. In answer to your question , yes it has to be.
However based on how their careers have progressed. only Chris Wood could have had any real impact for us over at the level we have spent most of the past 10 years. He arguable must have been a good 15 year old before we latched on to him too so we can’t take full credit.
Shows how tough a job the academy has. Shame we have lost another by the looks of it too.
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The thing with chris wood is besides a handful of strikers we havent had many better than him since he left; odemwingie Phillips (gayle and lukaku not included as were on loan) rondon im unsure if better or par...
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The thing with chris wood is besides a handful of strikers we havent had many better than him since he left; odemwingie Phillips (gayle and lukaku not included as were on loan) rondon im unsure if better or par...
Fair enough comment, but £25 million for a 30 year old player who at his best scores about 1 in 3 matches at this level, and who has been on poor form this season? Seems like a very poor call to me.
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Fair enough comment, but £25 million for a 30 year old player who at his best scores about 1 in 3 matches at this level, and who has been on poor form this season? Seems like a very poor call to me.
I agree totally. Cannot believe this fee. Massively overpriced.
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Price is immaterial to them now, if he turns out to be a squad player, it's ok, The pricing structure is about to be ripped up
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Fair enough comment, but £25 million for a 30 year old player who at his best scores about 1 in 3 matches at this level, and who has been on poor form this season? Seems like a very poor call to me.
If 25m guarantees their survival for £150m then its worth it for them. same as if dike costs us 10m and we get promoted its worth the gamble. However i do agree with you smacks of desperation
That wasnt my point. Im just thinking of funds we have wasted on strikers we never really give him a fair crack
5m sick vic
5m Zohore
3m Austin
3m lambert
Anelka and Sturridge wages... to name a few
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Apparently Arsenal have signed Lino Da Cruz Sousa from our under 18’s.
Says he is a 16 year old brazilian born left back who is highly rated.
Yep, another one bites the dust.
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It does make me wonder why we bother. I’d love to see the economics of the academy. It seems that we pay all of the staff, the player wages, the infrastructure, the medical staff, the youth coaching etc and then if the player fails we get to keep them but if they make it we lose them for a modest fee. Seems like “Heads you lose, tails you don’t win…â€
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Maybe any club taking a young player from another club's academy before the player's first professional contract, should be forced to pay a set amount of compensation to the academy club. Of course should the academy club so wish the player may be freed from this arrangement by not being offered a contract. Say a minimum amount of £1.5m maybe even £2m to cover original costs and investment might deter some of the speculative poaching as seems to be the way of one of our near neighbours. It might also be constructed to allow bidding between competing clubs if more than one want the academy product.
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It does make me wonder why we bother. I’d love to see the economics of the academy. It seems that we pay all of the staff, the player wages, the infrastructure, the medical staff, the youth coaching etc and then if the player fails we get to keep them but if they make it we lose them for a modest fee. Seems like “Heads you lose, tails you don’t win…â€
I get the drift but I'd take you up on your terminology there. TGH hasn't failed, he's signed a long term contract with a top Championship club. Izzy Brown, Louie Barry and Morgan Rogers haven't 'made it'.
I guess you are saying becoming a sought after young starlet = 'made it'
Failing to be a sought after young starlet = 'failed'
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I get the drift but I'd take you up on your terminology there. TGH hasn't failed, he's signed a long term contract with a top Championship club. Izzy Brown, Louie Barry and Morgan Rogers haven't 'made it'.
I guess you are saying becoming a sought after young starlet = 'made it'
Failing to be a sought after young starlet = 'failed'
Totally agree as of this moment all the players poached from us have failed to take the next step that is to become a regular Premiership player.
Dara and TGH will have better careers imo.
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Apparently Arsenal have signed Lino Da Cruz Sousa from our under 18’s.
Says he is a 16 year old brazilian born left back who is highly rated.
I'm as dismayed as anyone to hear of our Academy youngsters being poached, but can't say I'd heard of him or seen him getting a mention on here.
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I'm as dismayed as anyone to hear of our Academy youngsters being poached, but can't say I'd heard of him or seen him getting a mention on here.
He hasn't played for 7 months, I believe his last game was the FA Youth Cup semi final. The whisper around the Academy is WBA put a complaint in to the FA that Villa had tapped him up so he has been unable to even train at any club whilst the investigation was held. I assume that complaint has been upheld or at least completed so now he's signed for Arsenal instead. Rumour is it's 1m in compensation.
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He hasn't played for 7 months, I believe his last game was the FA Youth Cup semi final. The whisper around the Academy is WBA put a complaint in to the FA that Villa had tapped him up so he has been unable to even train at any club whilst the investigation was held. I assume that complaint has been upheld or at least completed so now he's signed for Arsenal instead. Rumour is it's 1m in compensation.
from whom? Arsenal or Villa?
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from whom? Arsenal or Villa?
Arsenal.
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Arsenal.
so Villa break the rules and haven’t had to pay for it? Sounds about right.
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so Villa break the rules and haven’t had to pay for it? Sounds about right.
Arsenal pay the compensation as they signed him. I've no idea if Villa have been fined, or even found guilty. Either way I doubt the fine would be payable to West Brom.
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I was told about the case and then forgot about it, the person I spoke to suggested he is bang average so the £300k we will get is good money for an unproven youngster.
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I was told about the case and then forgot about it, the person I spoke to suggested he is bang average so the £300k we will get is good money for an unproven youngster.
I can safely say he’s not bang average. One of the best players I’ve seen down there. Has all the attributes to make Premier Level if not more.
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I was told about the case and then forgot about it, the person I spoke to suggested he is bang average so the £300k we will get is good money for an unproven youngster.
He was being talked up at the end of last season as one of the more exciting youngsters coming through. You don't get clubs chasing you if you're bang average at the level surely?
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Maybe any club taking a young player from another club's academy before the player's first professional contract, should be forced to pay a set amount of compensation to the academy club. Of course should the academy club so wish the player may be freed from this arrangement by not being offered a contract. Say a minimum amount of £1.5m maybe even £2m to cover original costs and investment might deter some of the speculative poaching as seems to be the way of one of our near neighbours. It might also be constructed to allow bidding between competing clubs if more than one want the academy product.
Those rules are in place already. It's just that the very top youngsters can move for Peanuts and then be sold on for a huge profit further down the line.
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He was being talked up at the end of last season as one of the more exciting youngsters coming through. You don't get clubs chasing you if you're bang average at the level surely?
Yeah I can’t believe for a minute anyone would call him bang average.
Whenever I refereed him he was head and shoulders above anything on the pitch.
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Dont shoot the messenger! He could play 500 PL games and he might play none, I know which one I would go for.
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Its still annoying but over time very few that have left have done any good , Louie Barry should have torn League one apart but that didn't happen on loan at Ipswich .
I can remember Stephen Hopcroft raving about Morgan Rogers as one of if not the best he's worked with yet nothing happened at Man City and I don't hear much at Bournemouth .Despite Albion's struggles in recent seasons it's your O'Shea's , Edwards , Harper , Ferguson , and now T.G.H / Fellows who are clocking up a number of first team games .
Edit , just checked Rogers has made over 10 appearances for Bournemouth according to wiki
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Thirteen League appearances over 199 minutes with a start in both the FA and League Cup. Morgan turned 19 in the summer. Whilst not tearing up trees he's not doing too bad minutes wise given their squad.
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Its still annoying but over time very few that have left have done any good , Louie Barry should have torn League one apart but that didn't happen on loan at Ipswich .
I can remember Stephen Hopcroft raving about Morgan Rogers as one of if not the best he's worked with yet nothing happened at Man City and I don't hear much at Bournemouth .Despite Albion's struggles in recent seasons it's your O'Shea's , Edwards , Harper , Ferguson , and now T.G.H / Fellows who are clocking up a number of first team games .
Edit , just checked Rogers has made over 10 appearances for Bournemouth according to wiki
Although Rogers has played 13 times in the league for Bournemouth, it’s just 200 minutes in total. I remember reading they as part of the loan, if Bournemouth go up they are obligated to buy him for £10m, as things stand I suspect they will be regretting that.
He did well at Lincoln but he needs more minutes.
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Thirteen League appearances over 199 minutes with a start in both the FA and League Cup. Morgan turned 19 in the summer. Whilst not tearing up trees he's not doing too bad minutes wise given their squad.
Yes and no , I think Bournemouth's team is much younger this season . Moved a few seniors on like Steve Cook , not to bad for Morgan though .
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WBA OS confirms Morton has gone to Posh on loan for rest of season.
Be interesting to see how he fairs.
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Darragh Macanthony has confirmed on twitter it's a loan with a view to a permanent move in the summer. It's nice to see a chairman so honest and accessible to the fans, he isn't everyone's cup of tea but it's hard to to respect the way he makes himself available to fan questions.
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Darragh Macanthony has confirmed on twitter it's a loan with a view to a permanent move in the summer. It's nice to see a chairman so honest and accessible to the fans, he isn't everyone's cup of tea but it's hard to to respect the way he makes himself available to fan questions.
Thankfully we got him to sign a new four year deal in Sept 20 so we should be in a decent position should he do well at Peterborough. If he does incredibly and looks like a fairly polished article, we can bring him back.
If he does OK but looks like he needs more time at level below us, and Peterborough are prepared to give him that platform with a longer term view, its probably fair to let him go permanently at this stage of his career if we can get a decent fee and add ons.
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Young Albion defender Kevin Joshua will spend one month on loan at Vanarama National League North side Kettering Town.
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Tim Iroegbunam on the Seals bench tonight!!
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Zohore starting for the U23s tonight. Vals prayers have been answered. HE IS BACK!
Cleary makes way.
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Looking at that Villa side, 5 players in the starting 11 who started out at the Albion.
I want to say they have made the wrong move, but the one who stayed in Rico Richards is only making our bench now.
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Looking at that Villa side, 5 players in the starting 11 who started out at the Albion.
I want to say they have made the wrong move, but the one who stayed in Rico Richards is only making our bench now.
That's irrelevant the only time to judge these kids is when they are regulars somewhere most of them finish up plodding around the lower leagues at best.
The last so-called superstar Louie Barry returned to vila after a disappointing loan spell with Ipswich.
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Tulloch scores. 1-0.
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Also this is only Richards 2nd game back from injury. Barry was the big white hope , went to Barcelona then couldn’t get a game at Ipswich, the ups and downs of young footballers !
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Zohore scores as well apparently 2-0
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Zohore scores as well apparently 2-0
Yes good finish too
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2-1
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Sounds like a cracker!
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Zohore scores!
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this is a good game and it's live on the official
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There GK has made a couple of decent saves in the last few minutes !
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Cleary on for Zohore at HT. Saw him signalling someone as he walked off at the break
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Rico Richards on for Tulloch.
It's a pleasure to see an Albion team capable of passing to their own team-mates. Rumour that the kids are playing in th same "style" ????? as the first team are greatly exagerated.
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Rico Richards on for Tulloch.
It's a pleasure to see an Albion team capable of passing to their own team-mates. Rumour that the kids are playing in th same "style" ????? as the first team are greatly exagerated.
Do you happen to know who the 'trialist' is? or do they not mention the name on commentary?
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Ingram off, stranger to me coming on
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Ingram off, stranger to me coming on
Owen Windsor they said on Twitter
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FT 2-1 winners. Well done young'uns
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Mmmm perhaps the grass isn’t always greener ……!!
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M-O-M for me Texiera , little lad - big heart. Louie Barry .................also ran
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M-O-M for me Texiera , little lad - big heart. Louie Barry .................also ran
Agreed if only he’d grow a foot and put on a stone by Friday ;D ;D
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That's irrelevant the only time to judge these kids is when they are regulars somewhere most of them finish up plodding around the lower leagues at best.
The last so-called superstar Louie Barry returned to vila after a disappointing loan spell with Ipswich.
It might be irrelevant to you when judged through a fan lens, but if you put yourself in their shoes it isn't.
"A friend of a friend" was a Villa academy player until the age of about 20/21. They were eventually released and then failed the subsequent "s*** or bust" 1 year contract audition at a smaller pro club and now in their mid 20's play non league football.
Crucially however, in the spell he did have as a Villa "pro", he earned more money each week than both of his (middle class/income) parents combined - despite never turning out for their first team. As he was still at Villa aged 21, he was more attractive to pro clubs and so the subsequent move was to a decent enough name where again they will have earned at the very least a 30k a year salary.
If young Rico is released at the end of his current contract after failing to make the level, ending up at a league 2 side on a small wage -1 year deal then he will miss out on up to £100,000 income by the age of 21.
They are relatively small amounts in football terms, but if you think about the real world I'd find it hard to turn down £100k for 2 years work and I'm nearly in my mid 30's.
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Simple answer needs to be a unilateral agreement not to pay them as much and or pay them all the same.
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It might be irrelevant to you when judged through a fan lens, but if you put yourself in their shoes it isn't.
"A friend of a friend" was a Villa academy player until the age of about 20/21. They were eventually released and then failed the subsequent "s*** or bust" 1 year contract audition at a smaller pro club and now in their mid 20's play non league football.
Crucially however, in the spell he did have as a Villa "pro", he earned more money each week than both of his (middle class/income) parents combined - despite never turning out for their first team. As he was still at Villa aged 21, he was more attractive to pro clubs and so the subsequent move was to a decent enough name where again they will have earned at the very least a 30k a year salary.
If young Rico is released at the end of his current contract after failing to make the level, ending up at a league 2 side on a small wage -1 year deal then he will miss out on up to £100,000 income by the age of 21.
They are relatively small amounts in football terms, but if you think about the real world I'd find it hard to turn down £100k for 2 years work and I'm nearly in my mid 30's.
Oddly coincidental your post, I almost added that the money that drew a fair few players away from the Albion actually softened these lads and took away that hunger that players need to make it to the top
. Good luck to these lads but i don't think they entered football to play non league football and they certainly are no loss to the Albion.
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Always good to beat the Vile at whatever level. Good habits should always be encouraged. Well done to the young guns. COYB and SOTV 8) .
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West Brom academy 2 - 1 West Brom Academy
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West Brom academy 2 - 1 West Brom Academy
I see what you did there Liam
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Cleary on for Zohore at HT. Saw him signalling someone as he walked off at the break
Zohore in squad Saturday maybe?
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I see what you did there Liam
I can't claim any credit for it ;D
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Nixon saying Sheff Wednesday and Fleetwood trying to sign Tulloch on loan. Get him playing 1st team footy somewhere please.
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Zohore in squad Saturday maybe?
Doubt it. Probably injured again!
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Zohore scores with right foot!
Cleary blazes over from centre spot.
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Zohore scores with right foot!
Cleary blazes over from centre spot.
An achievement from that far out ! :o ;D
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Nixon saying Sheff Wednesday and Fleetwood trying to sign Tulloch on loan. Get him playing 1st team footy somewhere please.
Moore definitely likes him but Wednesday play a variation of 352 and I'm not sure Tulloch featuring at one of the wing back positions is suitable for him.
Wolves have already recalled Corbeaneu becaue they didn't want him playing at wing back.
I cannot see him featuring above either Gregory or Windass in those forward positions either.
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Moore definitely likes him but Wednesday play a variation of 352 and I'm not sure Tulloch featuring at one of the wing back positions is suitable for him.
Wolves have already recalled Corbeaneu becaue they didn't want him playing at wing back.
I cannot see him featuring above either Gregory or Windass in those forward positions either.
To be fair Liam as long as he's out playing first team football on the regular i'll be happy!
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WBA Twitter said it's Tullochs 21st birthday today. Did not realise he was that 'old'. He needs to be playng first team football by now.
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WBA Twitter said it's Tullochs 21st birthday today. Did not realise he was that 'old'. He needs to be playng first team football by now.
he would be, but for injury over the last few years.
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he would be, but for injury over the last few years.
He has definitely been unlucky with injuries but he's also spent most of his (limited) available time wasting away in the u23s. He will learn more from L1 or 2 than the U23s
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He has definitely been unlucky with injuries but he's also spent most of his (limited) available time wasting away in the u23s. He will learn more from L1 or 2 than the U23s
hence why Dave wants him over at Wednesday, took him to Doncaster too but didn’t play due to aforementioned injuries.
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hence why Dave wants him over at Wednesday, took him to Doncaster too but didn’t play due to aforementioned injuries.
Hopefully we make it happen!
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Hopefully we make it happen!
can’t remember the others but there were 2/3 interested parties. Probably be one done late in the window.
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U23s beating Blues U23s, goal from Tulloch
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Windosr has just scored to make it 2-2
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Lost 3-2.
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O'Shea only played 45 mins and as expected was far and away the best player on the pitch according to Brum Mail.
The CB triallist impressed again and Zohore was pants ;D
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O'Shea only played 45 mins and as expected was far and away the best player on the pitch according to Brum Mail.
The CB triallist impressed again and Zohore was pants ;D
Anyone have any clues/ideas who the Trialist was ???
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Anyone have any clues/ideas who the Trialist was ???
No but he's got rave reviews in his last few games with us for the u23s.
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Anyone have any clues/ideas who the Trialist was ???
one article I saw reckons it’s Cianole Nguepissi, but nothing official.
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Thanks. Never heard of him so googled it and it says he's a CM for blues under 18. Our guy is a CB?
not uncommon for players to move about positions in the academy, but I don’t know anything else.
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not uncommon for players to move about positions in the academy, but I don’t know anything else.
Reading different things about him. Would it be legal for him to come on trial to us though while at Blues? Not sure how that all works to be honest.
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Reading different things about him. Would it be legal for him to come on trial to us though while at Blues? Not sure how that all works to be honest.
not 100% but I remember one or two going on trial at other clubs last season while still here.
Edit: it was Tyrese Dyce, he went on trial to Sunderland while still in our academy (with our consent, of course)
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Reading different things about him. Would it be legal for him to come on trial to us though while at Blues? Not sure how that all works to be honest.
With permission players can do whatever at that level.
At his age, it’s would either be because he’s not getting / or agreeing a new contract at blue, or because blues are hoping to sell him.
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Thank you both for your replies. Appreciate it.
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Just watched the highlights. Who was our number 15?
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Thank you both for your replies. Appreciate it.
I think it’s probably unusual at championship level, but I know if league one or two clubs have a player who is attracting interest from bigger clubs and they accept they are likely to go, it’s not unusual for them to let them go on trail to try and spark a bit of a bidding war.
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Just watched the highlights. Who was our number 15?
He slipped up for one of the goals for sure!
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Saul Shotton. Looked sloppy.
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I know we only see highlights but our central defence and goalkeeper always look awful
Going forward we always look quite good.
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one article I saw reckons it’s Cianole Nguepissi, but nothing official.
You were correct. Someone put a photo of the team sheet from the game on Twitter. He's no longer at Blues.
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Cleary has put up an instagram video with his management company logo included about 30 minutes ago briefly charting his WBA beginning.
Then another video showing a picture of him with hearts wrapped in bandages (heartache?) underneath and a song playing 'Don't go, dont leave, please stay with me'
Interesting. I wish they would just say what they have to say one way or the other though.
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Cleary has put up an instagram video with his management company logo included about 30 minutes ago briefly charting his WBA beginning.
Then another video showing a picture of him with hearts wrapped in bandages (heartache?) underneath and a song playing 'Don't go, dont leave, please stay with me'
Interesting. I wish they would just say what they have to say one way or the other though.
Thats a Faithless song I believe.
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He's now either deactivated his account or randomly blocked me because he has vanished off it completely. Perhaps he put something up he wasn't allowed to yet and has been told off.
Thats a Faithless song I believe.
Googled the song and it was Wretch 32 or something 'Dont go'
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Cleary has put up an instagram video with his management company logo included about 30 minutes ago briefly charting his WBA beginning.
Then another video showing a picture of him with hearts wrapped in bandages (heartache?) underneath and a song playing 'Don't go, dont leave, please stay with me'
Interesting. I wish they would just say what they have to say one way or the other though.
It's about the young lad who went to Arsenal, not himself.
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It's about the young lad who went to Arsenal, not himself.
Ahhh thanks. Can you see his insta still?
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Ahhh thanks. Can you see his insta still?
Yes mate
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Yes mate
Weird, i can't! nevermind, thanks for clearingit up
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Weird, i can't! nevermind, thanks for clearingit up
If you press his picture it should still come up!
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If you press his picture it should still come up!
I can't see him at all!
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Now i can! so weird.
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Now i can! so weird.
There's something a little disturbing about your online obsessions Sir ;D .
Remember the still technically a minor in England and Wales bit?
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There's something a little disturbing about your online obsessions Sir ;D .
Remember the still technically a minor in England and Wales bit?
He's 17 Dan so above board.
To be fair i've got half the squad on instagram, i don't know why as i'm sick of the sight of them.
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He's 17 Dan so above board.
To be fair i've got half the squad on instagram, i don't know why as i'm sick of the sight of them.
Minors. Under 16 in Scotland. Under 18 in England and Wales. Me and the wife feel the same about being sick of the sight of each other at times. And neither of us is on Instagram ;D .
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Minors. Under 16 in Scotland. Under 18 in England and Wales. Me and the wife feel the same about being sick of the sight of each other at times. And neither of us is on Instagram ;D .
Minor sounds like a technicality to me ;D
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Minor sounds like a technicality to me ;D
I thought it would......... worryingly ;D .
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Jamie Soule [West Brom - Cheltenham] Loan
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Windsor has gone to league 2 as well.
I expected Tulloch to get some time away given Val has no interest in using him and I wonder if the likes of Caleb Taylor wouldn't have benefitted from a loan as well given O'Shea and Ajayi are now back on the bench.
Neither Soule nor Windsor are going to make it in our first team, so again the loan strategy seems to lack any clear long term plan.
Poor window outgoings wise.
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Windsor has gone to league 2 as well.
I expected Tulloch to get some time away given Val has no interest in using him and I wonder if the likes of Caleb Taylor wouldn't have benefitted from a loan as well given O'Shea and Ajayi are now back on the bench.
Neither Soule nor Windsor are going to make it in our first team, so again the loan strategy seems to lack any clear long term plan.
Poor window outgoings wise.
You may well be right saying this. Maybe it's a step towards helping them get experience and increase the chances of them finding a club if/when they leave us. There was some talk yesterday about the need for clubs to support young players when they are told they are not being retained as a lot of them will have been at the club since the age of 7 or 8 and it can be huge blow when they are finally shown the door. It sounds as though Crystal Palace have stipulated that they will continue to support players released from the academy and help them make the next steps whether that's in football or elsewhere. In a way it makes sense as that type of assurance would appeal to a lot of the parents of these lads when the club wants to sign them as a young players.
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You may well be right saying this. Maybe it's a step towards helping them get experience and increase the chances of them finding a club if/when they leave us. There was some talk yesterday about the need for clubs to support young players when they are told they are not being retained as a lot of them will have been at the club since the age of 7 or 8 and it can be huge blow when they are finally shown the door. It sounds as though Crystal Palace have stipulated that they will continue to support players released from the academy and help them make the next steps whether that's in football or elsewhere. In a way it makes sense as that type of assurance would appeal to a lot of the parents of these lads when the club wants to sign them as a young players.
I understand your point and it may well help us bring in young kids, but keeping the 15/16/17 year olds who do look like they will be good enough seems to be our problem.
Seems like you could end up of the long tail of those kids who aren’t good enough but no reward for those that are.
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I understand your point and it may well help us bring in young kids, but keeping the 15/16/17 year olds who do look like they will be good enough seems to be our problem.
Seems like you could end up of the long tail of those kids who aren’t good enough but no reward for those that are.
I'm assuming that you meant 'don't' rather than 'do' look like they'll be good enough ? Yes agreed there wouldn't be much point in keeping 15/16/17 year olds that we are confident won't make it. There must be several cases where it's a pretty marginal decision whether to keep lads or not and there will be mistakes made either way with letting them go or keeping them. Also the game is constantly evolving. Lads pick up injuries which may set them back and potentially result in slight loss of pace or whatever. I think Soule for one has had a lengthy injury lay-off as has Tulloch and many others....lots of variables.
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U23s playing now . Can be watched on the WBA tv now. Cleary on the bench , Castro back playing
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Steve Bruce and his coaching team are also at the game
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Goal down at HT
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0-1 not much Fro Bruce to get excited about. Soton sat on the game.
Fellows came off early. He had a few good touches but is easily passed by their defenders.
O'Shea looked a bit rusty and played 90 minutes. Interestingly he played right of the back 4.
Cleary had one good shot. There seem to be several players with the same build and equally challenged in the mobility stakes. Richards however does get involved off the ball.
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I feel sorry for O'Shea. He never really got to play under a manager who really believed in him in Ismael, and now I expect he will be shunted back out to right back again in Bruce's system, if he gets used at all.
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I feel sorry for O'Shea. He never really got to play under a manager who really believed in him in Ismael, and now I expect he will be shunted back out to right back again in Bruce's system, if he gets used at all.
I wouldn't be so sure about that but i also wouldn't be averse to him at RB with Connor Townsend getting forward a little more on the opposite flank. The club clearly really rate O'Shea. I think we should sign Clarke permanently and go forward with Clarke/O'Shea in the middle
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Dara might need another game perhaps even two before he's considered for the first team.
Second game back after long injuries is usually a difficult game for players I always feel. First game they often get by on adrenaline and do well but then second game they often look off the pace.
I haven't seen either of the U23 games Dara has played in so I don't know how he's looked but I would be careful about rushing him back too soon.
Right back or centre back, he can play either.
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From last night's player ratings I'd say that's spot on Atomic.
O'Shea got a 6 out of 10 in the local papers. Said was rusty but it's all part of the process. He got an 8 in his first 45 mins back the other week.
No need to rush him back at all I agree.
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I'm assuming the younger age groups no longer play Valball.
Will they be playing Bruceball moving forward?
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I'm assuming the younger age groups no longer play Valball.
Will they be playing Bruceball moving forward?
From todays athletic
"Albion Under-23s, who had also switched to 3-4-3 on Ismael’s orders to echo what the first team were doing, reverted to a back four on Monday in their first game since Bruce’s appointment in what could be considered a clue to his intentions for the senior side."
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From todays athletic
"Albion Under-23s, who had also switched to 3-4-3 on Ismael’s orders to echo what the first team were doing, reverted to a back four on Monday in their first game since Bruce’s appointment in what could be considered a clue to his intentions for the senior side."
They were actually doing ok with 343 and then lost the first game with a back 4.
Just shows that there really isn't a one-size Fitz Hall.
First team is, obviously, the most important though, so it makes sense that the system is cascaded down. Definite back 4 tonight.
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Young ‘uns win 4-1 . Richards , Cleary , Andrews with a penalty and Faal get the goals
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How is Cleary not getting a chance in the first team? Scores every single game
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How is Cleary not getting a chance in the first team? Scores every single game
From the Brighton game, I'd simply say not ready yet. It's a big step up, and he didn't get long, but a few of the kids that came on simply weren't ready yet.
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From the Brighton game, I'd simply say not ready yet. It's a big step up, and he didn't get long, but a few of the kids that came on simply weren't ready yet.
Plus the rumours about the club being unwilling to play Jim while he's unwilling to sign a contract. Seems like a bit of a mexican stand off
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i have just watched Arsenal match and was impressed by number 7 who I think is Ricoh Richards
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The season is quickly reaching the point where if the club have anything about them they will be insisting these youth players are given a chance to prove themselves, the clubs future is at the point its going to depend on it.
The current bunch are so weak, we are desperate for some quality, anything. We need at least a couple of the under 23s to step in as genuine first teamers, and a couple more as genuine squad options - time to find out who that is. We will only keep sliding in the wrong direction relying on our established team.
Maybe the academy isn't producing anyone useful, but its quickly approaching time that we have nothing to lose by finding out. Better than going into next season cold. Without some of these guys coming out of nowhere then we simply will not have the quality to go anywhere. They made an FA Youth Cup semi-final last season so you'd think at least a couple have something (although the best player did go to Villa).
We've already seen TGH is decent - certainly at least no worse than current players. Then, how much less productive can Fellows/Tullock possibly be out wide than the current options? Could Rico Richards offer less than Adam Reach as our creative midfielder? If these guys are worse, ok, but we'll find out. The point is they can't actually do that much worse, and we aren't going to get relegated or make the play offs. Worst case we find out now they're not up to it, best case we improve the team for next year.
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Agree, we must introduce them into games.
We won't have any money for a rebuild so we need to develop them into the first team squad or let them go.
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I see another of our 15 year old kids is off to Chealse which sort of proves we are producing good youngsters.
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Producing but not keeping. I know it's unfair and wrong to lock a young lad to a club long-term but why not have a quota on the amount others can poach. Obviously won't happen and loopholes will get exploited but that's my ideal situation.
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He won’t be the only one this summer. An account I follow called the secret scout reported on a Portuguese youth international from the under 16s also being looked at by all top sides in the country. Expect 3 or 4 to go again this summer and totally do not blame them. The right thing for their careers.
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Lai because he knows nothing about football and is solely occupied with saving his investment is most likely directing that all must be concentrated on the first team and promotion. he might think that this is still numerically possible - because he knows nothing about football. That sale is one of the worst things that has happened to this club.
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Lai because he knows nothing about football and is solely occupied with saving his investment is most likely directing that all must be concentrated on the first team and promotion. he might think that this is still numerically possible - because he knows nothing about football. That sale is one of the worst things that has happened to this club.
Bilic, VI, & now SB have all said that part of the brief is to incorporate development players into the team. The academy was a key part of Lai's decision to buy the club, so I doubt that it's being starved of funds in order to support the first team.
As I understand it, the costs to run the academy are around £3 million a year, so to some extent, it's probably self financing.
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Castro goal has us in front at Sunderland
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Final score 1-0 to the Baggies :D :D
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Bilic, VI, & now SB have all said that part of the brief is to incorporate development players into the team. The academy was a key part of Lai's decision to buy the club, so I doubt that it's being starved of funds in order to support the first team.
As I understand it, the costs to run the academy are around £3 million a year, so to some extent, it's probably self financing.
Well either they have all ignored him or it was just fine words and window dressing
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Well either they have all ignored him or it was just fine words and window dressing
Not sure about SB yet, but Bilic & VI certainly embraced the academy.
O'Shea, TGH & Fellows have all been given opportunities, we might not have liked VI's playing style, but he did introduce it throughout all of the playing levels within the club.
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Not sure about SB yet, but Bilic & VI certainly embraced the academy.
O'Shea, TGH & Fellows have all been given opportunities, we might not have liked VI's playing style, but he did introduce it throughout all of the playing levels within the club.
VI embraced the academy ?!!? He played TGH fleetingly when he had no other option then got him out at the first opportunity is my perception, O'Shea is 22 and had been in the team for ages before VI showed up with his BlitzKreig stuff and how many minutes has fellowes under his belt? 1 sub appearance against reading of 4 minutes !
Embraced as much as I embrace Kelly Brook ! MMM!!!, Going to a happy place now !!
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VI embraced the academy ?!!? He played TGH fleetingly when he had no other option then got him out at the first opportunity is my perception, O'Shea is 22 and had been in the team for ages before VI showed up with his BlitzKreig stuff and how many minutes has fellowes under his belt? 1 sub appearance against reading of 4 minutes !
Embraced as much as I embrace Kelly Brook ! MMM!!!, Going to a happy place now !!
I sometimes think we forget that the manager/head coach has one premier objective, which is to get the club playing at the highest possible level.
There is no doubt, in my mind, that VI saw the academy as a resource to meet that objective, & so did Bilic.
The fact that they've chosen not to use individual players from that resource is a footballing decision.
The coaches see these players every day, I don't, so I have to trust their judgment.
You & I have had numerous conversations about the business side of the club, & you must know the folly of replacing a failing team member because the other can't be any worse.
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I sometimes think we forget that the manager/head coach has one premier objective, which is to get the club playing at the highest possible level.
There is no doubt, in my mind, that VI saw the academy as a resource to meet that objective, & so did Bilic.
The fact that they've chosen not to use individual players from that resource is a footballing decision.
The coaches see these players every day, I don't, so I have to trust their judgment.
You & I have had numerous conversations about the business side of the club, & you must know the folly of replacing a failing team member because the other can't be any worse.
yes, but I am feeling particularly bitter and twisted towards the club at present, so stuff em, sack the lot, let the kids run the joint for a while (a la Lord of the Flies). Then send for Megadon to sort it all out. Job done !
Running a footy club, easy peasy !!
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I sometimes think we forget that the manager/head coach has one premier objective, which is to get the club playing at the highest possible level.
There is no doubt, in my mind, that VI saw the academy as a resource to meet that objective, & so did Bilic.
The fact that they've chosen not to use individual players from that resource is a footballing decision.
The coaches see these players every day, I don't, so I have to trust their judgment.
You & I have had numerous conversations about the business side of the club, & you must know the folly of replacing a failing team member because the other can't be any worse.
But the better ones need a pathway and need experience even if they have to drop back down again after 2 or 3 games. It's not just a matter of chuck 'em in they can't be any worse. Giving that pathway will hopefully pay dividends for the team and the club further down the line and may just liven up current performances.
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Forest Green are 10 pts clear in division 1 have games in hand and I believe had a spell of 19 games undefeated.
I understand that one of their stars is Kane Wilson.Is he another one we had in the academy yet didn't keep and regret the decision?
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Kane Wilson.Is he another one we had in the academy yet didn't keep
Wikipedia says so, yes. I don't know how he came about leaving to join them, whether it was his decision or the club's.
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Wikipedia says so, yes. I don't know how he came about leaving to join them, whether it was his decision or the club's.
from what I remember, he was blocking TGH’s progression (who they felt would be better long term) and (at the time) he was a League 2 level player due to his… not so stellar loans to Walsall and Tranmere. Although he’s has a great season, it is still league 2 level so I’d like to see him next year before I make a decision on if he’s a miss or not.
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https://www.westlondonsport.com/qpr/football-qpr-blackpoolfc-player-ratings-20033323
says it all
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https://www.westlondonsport.com/qpr/football-qpr-blackpoolfc-player-ratings-20033323
says it all
Yes words that wouldn't be used to describe any of our current midfielders.
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Where are they now? Ten West Brom academy products
I suspect, one or two, wish they had stayed, but money talks the loudest
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2022/02/25/where-are-they-now-ten-west-brom-academy-products/
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Kane Wilson was highly rated at 15/16 but he was a mile off it when we let him go. He had struggled in a few loans and didn't look to be kicking on.
Whether or not he can make it back to Championship level is still unknown, but sometimes you have to let these players go so they can try and make it on their own. It can be the making of them. Looks like he is out of contract this summer, so if he has done well this season you may well see a championship or top league one side take a chance.
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Watched him play a couple of times. Defensive positioning and levels of concentration let him down as a right back. He was very good going forward though.
No surprise he's been playing as a right sided midfielder. Haven't seen any of his performances this season but his stats look very good. Fair play to him.
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Read a old interview with Craig Bellamy the other day , made the point he had offers from the big clubs as a youngster and again before he signed pro at Norwich having been in their academy for a while .
Norwich made it clear to him he could earn more elsewhere but would be in big squads of players but if he stayed he'd get his first team chance and stand a better chance of making a career .
Granted times and money have moved on but the point still stands , its up to us to use that pathway better as a club too .
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https://www.westlondonsport.com/qpr/football-qpr-blackpoolfc-player-ratings-20033323
says it all
Glad to see that he joins a club which is really count on him.
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Ireogbunam made his debut for Villa yesterday, decent reviews as well. Glad to see Villa finally managed to get the right central mid from our academy after 2 or 3 goes from the same age groups.
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Expect some tremors coming out of the Academy soon, it appears they are about to lose their jewel in the crown.
Leo Cardoso expected to sign for Chelsea today.
Leo is an U15, but regularly plays up in 16s/18s and has represented both England & Portugal at U16.
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Expect some tremors coming out of the Academy soon, it appears they are about to lose their jewel in the crown.
Leo Cardoso expected to sign for Chelsea today.
Leo is an U15, but regularly plays up in 16s/18s and has represented both England & Portugal at U16.
shame but can’t stop him. I look forward to him playing for Swindon town in a decade’s time.
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shame but can’t stop him. I look forward to him playing for Swindon town in a decade’s time.
Why would he stay at a club heading for League 1? This club is rotten so I wouldn't blame any young up and coming player to want to build a career elsewhere
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And it just goes to show the problem we've got when trying to get the youth to play. The really promising ones, the ones most likely to make the step up, are all getting poached.
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To be fair the club cant do a great deal to stop this as the FA/PL want it this way to favour the top sides. However we can also do this to sides around and below us but there is little to no evidence that we do.
Thats two in as many weeks now and more to come.
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The boy has obviously got some common sense in getting out of here. Fair play to him.
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Can't blame any kid for wanting away from here.
Tim Iroegbunam made his PL debut recently and did well. Here he'd still be stuck behind Adam Reach.
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Saw it reported 3 or 4 weeks ago about this kid, a youth football twitter account said he had the pick of top clubs.
As baggie79 says, this is the way the EPL and FA both want it and is part of Dan Ashworth's EPPP design. As for the kid, I can't blame him at all, it is the right decision.
Until we provide evidence to these kids that they have a pathway here, they will just keep leaving. I expect we will continue to have 4 or 5 high profile losses each year until the academy is downgraded to Cat 2.
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not sure Chelski is the club of choice now
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not sure Chelski is the club of choice now
Well the kid has chosen them. Pictures of Cardaso holding up a Chelsea shirt on Reyes instagram. All done and dusted.
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BOOM 💥 wow what a signing! Chelsea have signed one of the best u16s in Europe Leo Cardoso
Can play wide or in the 10 role. Signed from West Brom
Has played for England and Portugal
What a signing 💥
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I know its not what we want to hear but its not really about a pathway, its about money.
These lads are being offered money most of us can only dream of, they already have representation from before their teenage years, i know of one ex albion youth player who was earning £16k a week for his first professional contract, that was for four years and he got a six figure signing on fee too.
Even if they dont make it at the top clubs, they are setting themselves up for life and can go elsewhere, gone are the days of local boys getting YTS then a pro deal, these lads are treated and behave like pro footballers from a very young age, many arent fans and even by the age of 15 they know of the financial benefits rather than dreaming of playing for their local club.
We mad izzy brown one of the the youngest players in our history and offered him a very good contract for a club of our size, same with morgan rogers, they played for the first team at 16 yet still moved on, its not about a pathway, its money which we sadly cannot compete with.
We are left with the next level group of youngsters, one of our most succesful of recent years came over from ireland and went on loan, i dont think thats a coincidence (O’Shea)
Our succesful academy players will probably have good careers at championship / league one and two level (ie - field, leko, harper, edwards, etc) that may be with us if we stay at this level and the club are forced down that route like other clubs, but it wont be with the elite youngsters from our academy, most will of already gone.
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Expect some tremors coming out of the Academy soon, it appears they are about to lose their jewel in the crown.
Leo Cardoso expected to sign for Chelsea today.
Leo is an U15, but regularly plays up in 16s/18s and has represented both England & Portugal at U16.
Remember him being linked with half of Europe back in October. Any idea what's taken so long to be snaffled up? Were his reps just sifting through the offers or were clubs waiting to see if he could sustain his progress?
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It has probably been mentioned in here before but we should just adopt the same approach as Brentford and disregard our Academy set up all together.
Over recent seasons we have lost Barry, Rodgers,Ferguson, Brown, Cardoso and all the lads who went to Villa and we probably have made less than £18m on sales. All of these could be worth £20m (with the exception of Brown but at the time he defo seemed that way) each in the future.
I would rather us run an U21 or U23 setup offering the best players released by the giants of European football a potential route into first team football.
Try something new as this system doesnt work; We lose our best talent for peanuts and the ones who make it through are nothing more than squad players, we havent produced an actual gem in years.
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It has probably been mentioned in here before but we should just adopt the same approach as Brentford and disregard our Academy set up all together.
Over recent seasons we have lost Barry, Rodgers,Ferguson, Brown, Cardoso and all the lads who went to Villa and we probably have made less than £18m on sales. All of these could be worth £20m (with the exception of Brown but at the time he defo seemed that way) each in the future.
I would rather us run an U21 or U23 setup offering the best players released by the giants of European football a potential route into first team football.
Try something new as this system doesnt work; We lose our best talent for peanuts and the ones who make it through are nothing more than squad players, we havent produced an actual gem in years.
I think there is merit in what you suggest.
Glenn Hoddle set up an Academy or Development Center as he prefers to refer to it, for players discarded by professional clubs at an early age and, along with other coaches he endeavours to develop them to a standard that provides a professional career for them.
I've added a link below about the Glenn Hoddle Academy that dates back to 2010, there are some familiar young faces in the academy, including Jordan Hugill, but don't let that put you off the general idea of the scheme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enbzc9R9cmM
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Another promising youngster slips from our grasp
https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2022/03/03/leo-cardoso-pictured-with-john-terry-and-petr-cech-as-he-quits-west-brom-for-chelsea/
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I think there is merit in what you suggest.
Glenn Hoddle set up an Academy or Development Center as he prefers to refer to it, for players discarded by professional clubs at an early age and, along with other coaches he endeavours to develop them to a standard that provides a professional career for them.
I've added a link below about the Glenn Hoddle Academy that dates back to 2010, there are some familiar young faces in the academy, including Jordan Hugill, but don't let that put you off the general idea of the scheme.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enbzc9R9cmM
I think we have a link or two to a similar system that Nigel Quashie is attached to, picked up a couple of the younger players from his group.
EDIT: we picked up Archie Oliver and Kyle Lang from Quashie’s group.
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The B time going forward would seem the way to do it, although Brexit has complicated what Brentford did which was pick up players from all over Europe for their B team, not really possible now.
Still, the only player from our youth team to play >50 games for us since our academy opened is Berahino and O'Shea. And O'Shea was signed at 16 so not through our schoolboy academy level where we lose the talent anyway. If we can't produce first team players at this level, there's really no point in it.
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Yep. Don't bother with a youth academy. Only bother with the age groups where you have them signed on a permanent pro contract.
If Liverpool, Chelsea, Man City & Co want youth recruitment centres across the country to find and train the best talent, they can pay for them and run them theirselves.
Only when England stop producing good youngsters because there are few academies left would the F.A. start to take notice and make compensation for 'smaller clubs' worthwhile and realistic.
I've mentioned it before, but the now Liverpool star Harvey Elliott signed from Fulham a few years ago and the tribunal only awarded Fulham a basic fee of £1.2 million. Fulham were hoping for at least £10 million plus add-ons. What would it cost to sign him from Liverpool now? Young, English, is highly regarded by Liverpool and will probably play for England. At least about £25-30 million for starters. Nice business if you're at the top of the pyramid.
Let them find their own youngsters. Get rid of the youth academies until the compensation is fair.
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The B time going forward would seem the way to do it, although Brexit has complicated what Brentford did which was pick up players from all over Europe for their B team, not really possible now.
Still, the only player from our youth team to play >50 games for us since our academy opened is Berahino and O'Shea. And O'Shea was signed at 16 so not through our schoolboy academy level where we lose the talent anyway. If we can't produce first team players at this level, there's really no point in it.
depends on how many we are expecting to break through. The Championship is a high level of play (I see some of you sniggering!) so it’s not like just anyone will make the grade.
One or two every few years (excluding those we sell and improve later) is about as much as I expect, obviously the lower we go the higher that expectation becomes.
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Another one off to Villa. This really is beyond a joke now. We pay millions running an academy, and for what? There's no return on the investment. Madness
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If I was to play devil's advocate, the challenege for the FA is that the vast majority of these kids will commit years to academy football before being unceremoniously dumped by their clubs who decide they aren't good enough. Many will receive promises that they will get a certain level of service before then having those promises withdrawn while still being tied to quite high contract release/break clauses (even for 10 year olds).
If you put the compensation figure higher, it works to make it fairer for the clubs in 5%-10% of cases, but in 90% of cases you are just making it very difficult for those kids who are never going to make it to have any control of their careers and is that right for a 16 year old kid who is only being offered an apprenticeship wage?
There is a strong argument that we should have some form of higher level compensation scheme for kids who move to bigger clubs and then become stars. Maybe a transfer levy for fees over £1m, or better yet, a scheme where the FA and Premier League allocate funds to academies who have players taken from them by bigger clubs against their will as a sweetener to keep going.
The FA afterall must be concerned that an academy likes ours might go the same way as Blues despite the fact we are producing 2 or 3 England youth internationals from nearly every age group.
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Is anyone planning on going to the u23 cup game tomorrow if so would love to get in contact with you
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Leading 2-1 at HT. Cleary with both goals
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All these youngsters going to Villa is our clubs own doing. We completely separated our academy lads from the senior squad and annouced in the media they werent allowed in the same area as the senior squad. After this the signal was publicly that the academy was not going to move ahead so the indispensable heads of the academy move on.
Seeing this happen I dont blame all our best talent from jumping ship. This will take years and many promising youngters leaving to reverse.
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All these youngsters going to Villa is our clubs own doing. We completely separated our academy lads from the senior squad and annouced in the media they werent allowed in the same area as the senior squad. After this the signal was publicly that the academy was not going to move ahead so the indispensable heads of the academy move on.
Seeing this happen I dont blame all our best talent from jumping ship. This will take years and many promising youngters leaving to reverse.
Mr Dowling take a bow.
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U23s win 4-2 ;) ;)
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All these youngsters going to Villa is our clubs own doing. We completely separated our academy lads from the senior squad and annouced in the media they werent allowed in the same area as the senior squad. After this the signal was publicly that the academy was not going to move ahead so the indispensable heads of the academy move on.
Seeing this happen I dont blame all our best talent from jumping ship. This will take years and many promising youngters leaving to reverse.
To be fair, I also saw the other side of the story given that others were surprised at the academy being instantly with the seniors, and that the lads from the academy were nice but there was questions over the drive. Richard Stevens who we bought in to replace them had James Maddison and Callum Wilson come through his academy at Coventry so he's no mug, so if he hasn't wanted that system changed back now Dowling's gone, I'd guess its not that bad.
Besides which, we've always lost players at this level. If Chelsea and whatnot come for you, they're likely going to go. Same for other academies, very rare you get a Bellingham. Oftentimes its at schoolboy age before fans even know of them. Gardner-Hickman wouldn't even be here nowadays with the rule changes.
No doubt being in the Championship is also hurting us for retention - particularly with regards to losing players to Villa, for most the last decade the club could point to being equal or above Villa, but now we've fallen behind, and they also got mega rich investors the equation has changed a lot.
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To be fair, I also saw the other side of the story given that others were surprised at the academy being instantly with the seniors, and that the lads from the academy were nice but there was questions over the drive. Richard Stevens who we bought in to replace them had James Maddison and Callum Wilson come through his academy at Coventry so he's no mug, so if he hasn't wanted that system changed back now Dowling's gone, I'd guess its not that bad.
Besides which, we've always lost players at this level. If Chelsea and whatnot come for you, they're likely going to go. Same for other academies, very rare you get a Bellingham. Oftentimes its at schoolboy age before fans even know of them. Gardner-Hickman wouldn't even be here nowadays with the rule changes.
No doubt being in the Championship is also hurting us for retention - particularly with regards to losing players to Villa, for most the last decade the club could point to being equal or above Villa, but now we've fallen behind, and they also got mega rich investors the equation has changed a lot.
this is very true, the old system did start getting a reputation for being very good for kids up to about 16 then they’d stall or worse, fall of a cliff. Wouldn’t be surprised if Villa have an even more exponential drop off over time with the money they throw at their players.
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Seeing this happen I dont blame all our best talent from jumping ship.
If I had my way thy wouldn't be allowed to leave. I'd stick 'em to the walls with Polycell and only get them down when we needed them to play. But apparently you can't do that kind of thing these days. Human bloody rights?!? I ask you!
(Being more serious, I don't understand why, when a player, youth or otherwise, is refusing to sign an offered contract, we continue to give them a shop window to sell themselves in.)
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I had no issue with Dowling changing the culture to increase the drive and motivation of our youngsters but that policy should not have been forced on the academy staff. No wonder they’ve left in their droves.
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I had no issue with Dowling changing the culture to increase the drive and motivation of our youngsters but that policy should not have been forced on the academy staff. No wonder they’ve left in their droves.
I daresay the extra pay will come in handy too. Yes people leave for more money in other walks of life too and that's perfectly understandable. But something very concerted has happened here. It wasn't just Dowling.
Villa consciously set about dismantling our academy and absorbing it as they redeveloped their own. I've been saying words to this effect for a while now and seen nothing to suggest otherwise. Harrison even alluded to it when he joined them.
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Yes money will have played a huge role. Villa have the 5th richest owner in the premier league I believe. They will have sold a vision of Champions League football and forming one of the biggest academies in the country...as well as offering very lucrative contracts to Harrison, Hopcroft and whoever. H + H spent around 10 years with us and I'm afraid it will have been a vision and offer that would have been hard to turn down under any circumstances.
We were already losing players to the big clubs Chelsea, Man City, Liverpool - Villa have the advantage of being on our doorstep so our young stars don't even have to leave home when they join them.
In fairness getting Stevens in was probably as good a move as we could have made and may even have benefitted us as there seems to be no sign in the talent supply from younger age groups drying up. It's clear that retaining the talent is the very very difficult part.
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apologies in advance for going off at a tangent, but is there a table of owners wealth (prem & chumps) which we could compare to league standings?
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apologies in advance for going off at a tangent, but is there a table of owners wealth (prem & chumps) which we could compare to league standings?
Wikipedia is your friend:-
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_owners_of_English_football_clubs
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Surely if this lad is going to go for a pittance very soon, and doesn’t want to sign a contract, it’s best that he’s benched or left out of team to bring through/blood fresh talent more likely to be committed to the club.
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We probably retain a slim hope we can keep him scones, benching him makes his decision for him. Might also help with any compensation we get.
The club do need to get a handle on this though, it's becoming a bit of a joke. It seems to be one of the talking points of youth football nationally now how our academy is hemorrhaging players. We can keep any of the best 4 products from any age group. Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Ciry and Villa seem to do most of their shopping here now when previously it was QPR and Fulham.
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I'm going to take a different view on this, and I think it might be unpopular but hey ho.
Firstly, I am also sick and tired of our academy being picked over by clubs with more financial and competitive clout that us. Its immensely frustrating to see these kids move on, and look to do well, at least in their new respective academies.
With that said, I can't bring myself to say that the academy should be shut down.
We're a local, community football club. We always have been. Historically, we have always had deep roots in the community around our local area and the Academy is a part of that. Young lads from all around come through our doors. For me, I think its about a bit more than just being a success, or for getting money for them. The academy is part of the tapestry that makes Albion the club it is. If we were to strip it away and close it down and say no more kids, no more uX games or squads or intakes, it would be immensely sad step away from a community minded club and more to corporate football machine. And I don't want Albion to be that sort of club.
I wouldn't be averse to some sort of league/country wide reform about the poaching of players however, obviously.
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The academy is there to serve this football club and be the lifeline for the community into the club. It is a crying shame and sad indictment of how this club has been run that blooding our academy graduates into the first team has been one of our lowest priorities.
You reap what you sow. We cannot blame others for leaving given the way we treat them.
As it currently stands - we're just an education centre for Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal and those swines down the road. If we're going to keep losing players & we're not providing a pathway then we may as well shut it down.
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I'm going to take a different view on this, and I think it might be unpopular but hey ho.
Firstly, I am also sick and tired of our academy being picked over by clubs with more financial and competitive clout that us. Its immensely frustrating to see these kids move on, and look to do well, at least in their new respective academies.
With that said, I can't bring myself to say that the academy should be shut down.
We're a local, community football club. We always have been. Historically, we have always had deep roots in the community around our local area and the Academy is a part of that. Young lads from all around come through our doors. For me, I think its about a bit more than just being a success, or for getting money for them. The academy is part of the tapestry that makes Albion the club it is. If we were to strip it away and close it down and say no more kids, no more uX games or squads or intakes, it would be immensely sad step away from a community minded club and more to corporate football machine. And I don't want Albion to be that sort of club.
I wouldn't be averse to some sort of league/country wide reform about the poaching of players however, obviously.
The academy hasn't really produced local players with any kind of regularity for a long, long time though. Since 2000 the following players went on to play 50 games for the club: Berahino, O'Shea. That's it. O'Shea was bought over from Ireland at 16 so not even from the local community.
If you extend that to 1990 you add Adam Chambers, James Chambers, and Stacy Coldicott to that list. So 2 players in the last 22 years, 5 in 32 years overall.
Not much of a heritage. The quality and quantity of players is dwarfed by all our local rivals. It's one of the reasons I never quite understood the enamour over Harrison. Not much value to having excellent 16 year olds most of whom fade from the game very quickly both for us and elsewhere.
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Sorry don’t buy this ‘ it’s because there’s no pathway’ or they don’t stay because ‘ they can’t see a way into the first team’ . To me 90% of it comes down to money pure and simple . How many of our youngsters have left to join academies at let’s say Blackburn or Hull for example ? It is basically no different to a senior player at clubs like us when teams like Chelsea or Arsenal come calling .
We at the moment just have to hope some of these kids or whoever is advising them wise up and see that it will be much harder to forge a career in the game at one of these ‘ bigger ‘ clubs where the competition for places means so many just fade into former players without getting too many opportunities.
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The academy hasn't really produced local players with any kind of regularity for a long, long time though. Since 2000 the following players went on to play 50 games for the club: Berahino, O'Shea. That's it. O'Shea was bought over from Ireland at 16 so not even from the local community.
If you extend that to 1990 you add Adam Chambers, James Chambers, and Stacy Coldicott to that list. So 2 players in the last 22 years, 5 in 32 years overall.
Not much of a heritage. The quality and quantity of players is dwarfed by all our local rivals. It's one of the reasons I never quite understood the enamour over Harrison. Not much value to having excellent 16 year olds most of whom fade from the game very quickly both for us and elsewhere.
True to an extent. There were George Thorne (he came from Cambridge but was still very young when he came into the academy, following Dan Ashworth's arrival from Cambridge) - injury wrecked his career. Sam Field, there's a good chance he would have made it with us if he'd managed to stay fit consistently and had a few more opportunities. Both Thorne and Field played for us in the premier league when they were 18 or 19. Kemar Roofe has had a decent career. The likes of Izzy Brown, Morgan Rodgers and Louie Barry may have broken through with us if they'd stayed. You may have a point though about Harrison/Hopcroft being a touch over rated in terms of long term results.
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I still don’t understand why the Football league 72 haven’t banded together to some extent to leverage the FA. Threaten to close academies and reduce opportunities for local kids and local communities unless they get better protection.
It’s not straight forwards to commit the kids because of laws and minors but can sign up the clubs to rules and regulations.
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I still don’t understand why the Football league 72 haven’t banded together to some extent to leverage the FA. Threaten to close academies and reduce opportunities for local kids and local communities unless they get better protection.
It’s not straight forwards to commit the kids because of laws and minors but can sign up the clubs to rules and regulations.
Its because to most clubs £300k is a windfall that could last a long time, its only really the top championship and lower premiership clubs that this hurts. It wont change any time soon if ever.
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On the Hawksbee & Jacobs show today they had an English guy who is heading up opening Academies for PSG here in the UK.
He went on to say PSG had a program of opening their academies world wide to hoover up all the best talent.
He went on to say that kids wouldn’t have any sort of contract and could move on if they wanted to
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Wikipedia is your friend:-
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_owners_of_English_football_clubs
many thanks
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I'm just curious, how many players have we lost over the last few years and to which clubs?
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I still don’t understand why the Football league 72 haven’t banded together to some extent to leverage the FA. Threaten to close academies and reduce opportunities for local kids and local communities unless they get better protection.
They don't even need to do that. If they weren't willing to take the PL youth players on loan then suddenly there's nowhere (in England at least) for them to get experience, and I imagine they want players to have English league experience because that's where they (the owning clubs) want them to play. We know from experience that players brought up in Spanish football, for example, don't always "travel well" in terms of being able to translate their play into the English game. If there's no route for the kids to get experience, the PL clubs lose out, the young players lose out, and their parents might not be so keen to push them to take the first big pay cheque waved under their noses.
Its because to most clubs £300k is a windfall that could last a long time, its only really the top championship and lower premiership clubs that this hurts. It wont change any time soon if ever.
£300k is less than 500k, or a million or more, if they bring the players on and they're successful. I realise though that it's likely a lot of clubs are that desperate for money that the minimum amount is what they need to survive until the next season when they go through the same thing again. There simply isn't enough money goes down from the PL to lower division clubs. Personally I'd stop the parachute payments and distribute all of that money to the lower divisions. I'd also find a way that clubs that actually find and train young players get value from future transfer fees or perhaps a percentage of a player's wages.
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I'm just curious, how many players have we lost over the last few years and to which clubs?
Izzy Brown to Chelsea
Ferguson to Palace.
Morgan Rogers to City
Yahn Danda to Liverpool. I think someone else went to Liverpool, but I can't remember who.
Then, Barry, Iroegbuna (I will definitely have spelt that wrong), Azaz and Thorndike to Villa, as well as a big chunk of our academy staff.
You could count Roberts, Wood and Roofe I guess, but they were in and around the first team for a while before they left.
Sure there are others who I have missed.
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Izzy Brown to Chelsea
Ferguson to Palace.
Morgan Rogers to City
Yahn Danda to Liverpool. I think someone else went to Liverpool, but I can't remember who.
Then, Barry, Iroegbuna (I will definitely have spelt that wrong), Azaz and Thorndike to Villa, as well as a big chunk of our academy staff.
You could count Roberts, Wood and Roofe I guess, but they were in and around the first team for a while before they left.
Sure there are others who I have missed.
*Iroegbunam, close but this isn’t government work. :D
also missed off my head are Jerome Sinclair to Liverpool, Brad Smith to Villa (technically released though?), Marcus Forss to Brentford and Lino Da Souza to Arsenal.
Conversely, again off the top of my head, we picked up the likes of Nguepissi from Brum, Chisholm from Watford, Ben Pierce from Everton and Kyle Jameson from Chelsea in the fairly recent past. So it’s not entirely one way traffic.
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The policy of all the best kids going to the top clubs was something greatly supported by Dan Ashworth in his tenure at St. George's Park, indeed am sure I've read it was part of his grand plan fir Englush football going forward :-\
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Well until we get a coach who is willing to embrace and nurture our youngsters over has beens or never will be’s think our kids with promise will jump ship.
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Its because to most clubs £300k is a windfall that could last a long time, its only really the top championship and lower premiership clubs that this hurts. It wont change any time soon if ever.
It wouldn’t stop a club accepting 300k or lower if they choose. It would however give them the prospect of better.
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Izzy Brown to Chelsea
Ferguson to Palace.
Morgan Rogers to City
Yahn Danda to Liverpool. I think someone else went to Liverpool, but I can't remember who.
Then, Barry, Iroegbuna (I will definitely have spelt that wrong), Azaz and Thorndike to Villa, as well as a big chunk of our academy staff.
You could count Roberts, Wood and Roofe I guess, but they were in and around the first team for a while before they left.
Sure there are others who I have missed.
Rogers was our choice to let leave and Ferguson was already in the first team and we would have got a lot more for him but for injury. I don’t think these should be bracketed with those that have and intend to leave without ever having got that close to first team
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*Iroegbunam, close but this isn’t government work. :D
also missed off my head are Jerome Sinclair to Liverpool, Brad Smith to Villa (technically released though?), Marcus Forss to Brentford and Lino Da Souza to Arsenal.
One letter off, I am more than happy with my effort off my head.
Sinclair, that was the guy that went to 'Pool that I couldn't place.
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I'm just curious, how many players have we lost over the last few years and to which clubs?
Some who were academy players when they were signed for Prem clubs in recent years include
Iroegbunam, Barry, Mitchell, Lynch, Azaz & Rowe to Villa. Additionally Young, Raikhy & Thorndike were released but are now pro @Villa.
Small & Quintyne to Everton
Sousa to Arsenal
Dyer & Cardoso to Chelsea
Dhanda to Liverpool
Plus Tipton & Farmer who were released and are now pro @ Wolves
There are probably more but that's off the top of my head. Two or three of those have potential to be very good players indeed.
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Might be sour grapes and insensitive in the wider scheme of World events but I wonder what Cardoso and his family/advisors think about signing for Chelsea a day before what appears to be very stringent sanctions apply? Did he actually sign? if not can he as of now? I guess as he's such a "hot prospect" we wouldn't be able to hold onto him in any event.
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Disgrace tonight v Dingles totally outplayed.
Only Castro with a modicum of ability and he was lazy.
Cleary was shocking.
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Disgrace tonight v Dingles totally outplayed.
Only Castro with a modicum of ability and he was lazy.
Cleary was shocking.
Have to agree mate, a dreadful performance 0-4 and it should have been 6.
Someone needs to take Castro aside and tell him just to keep it simple and cut out the tricks.
Having seen quite a bit of the 23's I was really dismayed watching that tonight. I think that the majority of the group are now training with the first team and suddenly think they have made it. If we are relying on anyone other than Castro to be part of a "new beginning" then we are going to be very disappointed I feel. Whoever decided that these players would be inspired by training alongside the 1st team shower was gravely wrong.
As if this season has not been bad enough, listening To knuckle dragging Dingle ***** taking the **** out of our youngsters is too much for me.
For goodness sake who is coaching our players?
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Puts the mockers on the ‘throw the kids in ‘ brigade . The majority are miles away from forming the basis of a promotion challenging side at the moment :(
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Lost 0-5 tonight at home to Forest.
I don't know what's gone wrong?
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Lost 0-5 tonight at home to Forest.
I don't know what's gone wrong?
stopped using Valball and playing a much more “normal†system they aren’t used to. It’ll take time to readjust and in U23’s blow outs aren’t uncommon anyway let alone when a team is changing system.
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In fairness a number of players available for selection earlier this season are out on loan. Two of whom off the top of my head are Cann (goalie) and Faal (centre forward).
Pretty sure a couple of defenders are on loan too but their names escape me for now. That and some bloke called Zohore who'd bagged a few has been out injured for a while too.
It's not all doom and gloom and I imagine a number of their replacements have jumped up an age bracket or two. Not stating this last point as fact as I haven't been following them as closely as normally of late.
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According to Joe Masi it could've been 10.
According to the Birmingham Mail Caleb Taylor impressed the less said about the rest of them.
These are the kids many want thrown into the first team. Be careful what you wish for. The likes of Tulloch, Cleary, Castro, Fellows, Ingram were all present tonight all under the watchful eye of Steve Bruce.
Don't expect to see any of them any time soon.
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Let's not forget they've also produced some good results and performances but the wheels have come off this week.
Fellows has already featured and was no more out of his depth than Diangana.
Not many are saying throw them all in at the same time.
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Fellows was absolutely terrible versus Preston. Anyone can have a bad game but he was miles off it.
I went to the Dingles match which was horrendous and last night must've been on a similar level?
We already have a few senior players on the bench / sidelines. The U23s are unlockable currently for Bruce IMO.
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Unpickable
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Fellows was absolutely terrible versus Preston. Anyone can have a bad game but he was miles off it.
I went to the Dingles match which was horrendous and last night must've been on a similar level?
We already have a few senior players on the bench / sidelines. The U23s are unlockable currently for Bruce IMO.
Odd stick to beat him with given he didn't even play against Preston. I think you mean Cardiff. Nearly everyone had a stinker against Cardiff for most of the first half and large chunks of the second.
Cardiff were physically tough and were up for the challenge. Fellows wasn't alone in being bullied off the ball as a good number of our established first teamers hid in plain sight that day as they have on others too.
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Let's not forget they've also produced some good results and performances but the wheels have come off this week.
Fellows has already featured and was no more out of his depth than Diangana.
Not many are saying throw them all in at the same time.
Fellows had a good ten minutes or so at Derby but subsequently looked way out of his depth. Admittedly he's not had much game time but he's not really done anything in the U23's to earn it.
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Wouldn't be surprised if the the senior game produces a similar result TBH.
The Academy is just a distraction and a waste of resources. what's the point of producing youngsters when the best get stolen for a pittance and bar one or two moderately good ones, we're left with the dross.
spend the money on scouting, analytics and developing overlooked / late developing talent.
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Fellows had a good ten minutes or so at Derby but subsequently looked way out of his depth. Admittedly he's not had much game time but he's not really done anything in the U23's to earn it.
Opinions but I'd disagree with that.
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Pl2 side winning away at HT 2-0 . Goals from Malcolm and Faal
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2-1 to us as it stands
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Losing 3-2 after 2 goal lead. 12 goals shipped in 3 matches.
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Pulled it back to 3 3 then conceded in injury time. Lost 4 3
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Pulled it back to 3 3 then conceded in injury time. Lost 4 3
Conceding 13 goals in 3 matches means that there is something seriously wrong. Not that I'm necessarily blaming him because the responsibility is everyone's, bit out of interest, who's playing in goal?
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Conceding 13 goals in 3 matches means that there is something seriously wrong. Not that I'm necessarily blaming him because the responsibility is everyone's, bit out of interest, who's playing in goal?
Chisholm tonight. Not sure about the last few games before tonight though.
It is an insane amount of goals to leak, agreed. They seem to have gone off the boil completely
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Chisholm tonight. Not sure about the last few games before tonight though.
It is an insane amount of goals to leak, agreed. They seem to have gone off the boil completely
Thanks for the info. Do you know who else was playing? Any of the senior players?
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Thanks for the info. Do you know who else was playing? Any of the senior players?
No recognised first team players. Tulloch scored and Fellows also played.
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No recognised first team players. Tulloch scored and Fellows also played.
I'm not certain but it certainly looked like it was Fellows who setup Tulloch's goal with directness and taking people on in the box, which seems to be something he's good at - not a bad strength to have and something we saw glimpses of when he played in the 1st team.
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The team defending for all of Newcastle's goals would've been comical had it been any other team than us. Caleb Taylor post goals standing there with a look of utter bewilderment at what was going on around him was a picture that told a thousand words.
Adder it was indeed Fellows that set up the third goal.
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Faal seems to have come on a bit, also the young keeper seemed to do well in the reading game with a couple of smart stops, along with Taylor there seems to be a few that could possibly get in and around the squad in the next year or so.
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I always watch the highlights and we have been defensively shocking all season especially through the middle, our goalkeeping hasn't been great either.
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Do we give one or two a game now that we are not going up. Thinking Taylor, Faal and Cleary, surely worth a few mimutes here and there, not starts but a few minutes maybe?
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Do we give one or two a game now that we are not going up. Thinking Taylor, Faal and Cleary, surely worth a few mimutes here and there, not starts but a few minutes maybe?
Not cleary if he won’t sign
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Premier League Cup QF today.
Currently we are 4-2 up at Derby.
Jamie Andrews, Jovan Malcolm and Zac Ashworth 2 the goalscorers.
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4-3 now, Sibley for Derby.
Almost as entertaining as our first team games. ;)
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Won 4-3. ;D
We're the Albion, we're the Albion, we're the Albion!
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Bad news is Dingles won 1-0 at Peterborough.
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Does anyone on here watch much of the 23's and 18's? I only get the very good and very bad bits through the highlights which doesnt give you a good idea of the players contribution over the 90 minutes. I was just wondering if there is anyone who people think will genuinely make it to be a regulay in the first team squad?
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I would say Ingram and maybe Andrews.
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Andrews always looks as though he has something about him. Have heard a rumour that his attitude isn’t or hasn’t been the best ,hasten to add it is only a rumour .
At the moment I would have Faal ahead of Cleary in a race to first team squad . Finally Castro obviously there is ability there but the rest of the package has to be put in place !
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Has Cleary signed a contract? I thought he was off this summer?
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Has Cleary signed a contract? I thought he was off this summer?
nobody knows anything and nothing has been announced either way.
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He mentioned something yesterday about the countdown being on in so many hours then just wishes himself happy birthday
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Has Cleary signed a contract? I thought he was off this summer?
Hints and rumours a few weeks back his agent was asking for big wages .
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Last thing I read was back in March that Arsenal had joined the group of clubs allegedly after Cleary. Arsenal also signed Lino Sousa from us in January.
The other clubs linked with Cleary are Everton, Newcastle and Bayern Munich.
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Fair enough, thanks guys.
You would have to imagine if he had signed a contract it would be announced, so no news in this case is bad news.
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Cleary has been dropped to the under 18s last few weeks as well so i'd guess the club know where this one is going with him and are slowing down his development under us
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Fair enough, thanks guys.
You would have to imagine if he had signed a contract it would be announced, so no news in this case is bad news.
Sadly Mark, I think you are right. With the current atmosphere around the club it would have expected a leak of some kind of there was any good news. Although if contract talks are still ongoing then they might not want to raise fans hopes just in case he does leave.
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We can expect news imminiminiminimtly....... apparently.
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Also the very highly rated Rico seems to have been fit for a while now and still hasnt been given a decent chance in the first team squad. I wonder what that is all about?
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I think with Richards it's a case of injuries and stalled development. He doesn't seem to have developed much physically which maybe doesn't help and we are a poor finishing school with players often fading once they hit under 18 level. It's why I'm such and advocate of loans.
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with young players it isn't just what they produce but what they are capable of.
For instance Castro made a mistake which led to a goal but to me he showed determination to get forward and shoot ,a reasonable level of ball control and pace so if he is encouraged to produce these he could develop into a good player but if a player is not capable all the encouragement in the world is not going to produce a good player.
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with young players it isn't just what they produce but what they are capable of.
For instance Castro made a mistake which led to a goal but to me he showed determination to get forward and shoot ,a reasonable level of ball control and pace so if he is encouraged to produce these he could develop into a good player but if a player is not capable all the encouragement in the world is not going to produce a good player.
That's a very fair point. I have to say on this site there is often a tendency to zoom in on a perceived weakness of a young player or a single mistake or some reason why they are not ready.
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Fizz Azaz - who we let leave on a free transfer last season - named into League 2 team of the season, 11 goals and assists, and young player of the season. More sterling decision making from the club. Alongside ex-academy product Kane Wilson was player of the season.
Still, not like a goalscoring creative midfielder would be much help to us....
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Fizz Azaz - who we let leave on a free transfer last season - named into League 2 team of the season, 11 goals and assists, and young player of the season. More sterling decision making from the club. Alongside ex-academy product Kane Wilson was player of the season.
Still, not like a goalscoring creative midfielder would be much help to us....
His name's Finn. He was offered a contract which he refused to sign preferring to join up with the Vile. His choice, not Albion's.
Whenever I saw Kane Wilson play the game seemed to come easy to him. But he was quite casual positional wise defensively while great going forward. Never understood why we didn't play him right midfield. Ingram reminds me of Wilson in this sense.
Wilson's been playing right midfield all season and this is where his goals and assists have come from. If Ingram doesn't improve defensively then we've got another option to Fellows on the right for the future.
Personally speaking I'd love to see what Ingram can do from RWB in our current set up. I can't imagine he'd be any worse than Furlong defensively and his crossing's better. Reach on the left for balance.
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His name's Finn. He was offered a contract which he refused to sign preferring to join up with the Vile. His choice, not Albion's.
Whenever I saw Kane Wilson play the game seemed to come easy to him. But he was quite casual positional wise defensively while great going forward. Never understood why we didn't play him right midfield. Ingram reminds me of Wilson in this sense.
Wilson's been playing right midfield all season and this is where his goals and assists have come from. If Ingram doesn't improve defensively then we've got another option to Fellows on the right for the future.
Personally speaking I'd love to see what Ingram can do from RWB in our current set up. I can't imagine he'd be any worse than Furlong defensively and his crossing's better. Reach on the left for balance.
I could well be wrong, but don't Forest Green play with a back three, which would make Wilson a RWB? I suppose it's all semantics, really.
We really are atrocious at bringing through players, particularly in positions that get the best out of them
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I could well be wrong, but don't Forest Green play with a back three, which would make Wilson a RWB? I suppose it's all semantics, really.
Yes this is correct, he is a buccaneering wing-back.
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His name's Finn. He was offered a contract which he refused to sign preferring to join up with the Vile. His choice, not Albion's.
Whenever I saw Kane Wilson play the game seemed to come easy to him. But he was quite casual positional wise defensively while great going forward. Never understood why we didn't play him right midfield. Ingram reminds me of Wilson in this sense.
Wilson's been playing right midfield all season and this is where his goals and assists have come from. If Ingram doesn't improve defensively then we've got another option to Fellows on the right for the future.
Personally speaking I'd love to see what Ingram can do from RWB in our current set up. I can't imagine he'd be any worse than Furlong defensively and his crossing's better. Reach on the left for balance.
Was the clubs choice to give him a 12 month deal in the first place, what's the point in signing players on to 12 months deals with no option and then loaning them out?
You're always liable to lose anyone who's promising being so short sighted. Yet we can afford to throw new multiple year contracts at Matt Phillips to sit on the bench for another 3 years.
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Re Wilson's positioning I was going off Transfermarkt's positional data stats. Again, I would love to see what Ingram can do at RWB. Disappointed he hasn't already been given the nod.
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Was the clubs choice to give him a 12 month deal in the first place, what's the point in signing players on to 12 months deals with no option and then loaning them out?
You're always liable to lose anyone who's promising being so short sighted. Yet we can afford to throw new multiple year contracts at Matt Phillips to sit on the bench for another 3 years.
I agree we could and perhaps should have been on it sooner. However, the truth still remains that he was offered a contract which he chose to refuse in favour of signing for Aston Villa.
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PL2 side beat Naarwich 3-2 last night ("a trialist, Mo Faal and Quevin Castro" scoring). Anyone know who the trialist was? Confusingly, there were two in the side according to the OS, one in a back three and the other in midfield. it doesn't say which of them scored, but the one in midfield was subbed off half-way through the second half.
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Tyler Caton was the trialist who scored.
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Is that any relation to Tommy ?
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Does anyone know who played number 3 against Norwich left wing back?
Admittedly I only saw the highlights but looks better going forward than Reach and Townsend
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Dan Ashworths lad has been playing there but haven’t seen the team sheet
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Does anyone know who played number 3 against Norwich left wing back?
Admittedly I only saw the highlights but looks better going forward than Reach and Townsend
Ashworth I believe
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Ashworth I believe
Thanks. Has anyone watched him consistently?
He looks like he has a nice left peg
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I see that the prolific A. Trialist scored for us last 23's game.
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Im confused there were two A. Trialists playing at the same time ;D
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Yeah they were. One was from Fulham. Not sure on the other one
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The other was from Coventry.
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I was thinking of going up to support the young uns is it Tuesday the semi final?
Can you pay on the gate and if so is it at the hawthorns?
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I was thinking of going up to support the young uns is it Tuesday the semi final?
Can you pay on the gate and if so is it at the hawthorns?
Yes chap, £5 on the gate. These games used to be free to HSTHs. I was planning on going but unfortunately I can't make it now. All of the very best to the U23s for tonight. They're going to need it. It's not just Fulham's first team that's useful.
COYB 8) .
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Pretty even game so far looking at the statistics but I'm not watching it. The Fulham kids are decent to be fair from when I saw our young UN's play theirs before.
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WBA 1- 0 Fulham (Caleb Taylor header)
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2-0, missed who scored.
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2-0, missed who scored.
Faal i think
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Yeah Faal according to Twitter
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When was the last time we got to a national final at this level?
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2-1 think it takes a deflection and sends the keeper the wrong way.
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full time and a bit of handbags to finish.
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Massive congrats to the kids
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Well done lads!!
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Great stuff
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Well done , bit backs to the wall late on but only conceded a deflected goal ! Mo Faal could be an absolute beast . If he fills out a bit he’ll make Heskey look like Tom Thumb !
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Enjoyed watching that. Fulham looked the better side but we defended well and took our chances. I was very impressed with Nguepissi at centre half.
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Great win lads, well deserved. Bring on the Dings
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Well done boys!
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Where will the final be played, out of curiosity?
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Where will the final be played, out of curiosity?
Not sure but OS says we will play winner of Wolves Vs Boro in the final so could be a youthful BCD final
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Come on the Smoggies, give them Dingles a beating!
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It looks certain that Cleary is off now.
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It looks certain that Cleary is off now.
Hasn't played in the u23's for a while so I guessed as much
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It looks certain that Cleary is off now.
If it's true he wants 20k then I don't blame the club on this one
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Where will the final be played, out of curiosity?
Have seen if the Wolves win we’ll be away if Boro win we’ll be at home but not sure how or why
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Another final for this young side. That’s an FA youth cup semi final, and FA youth cup final and now a PL2 cup final. For a side written off by many inside and outside the club and who have been picked apart by bigger vultures, it’s some achievement. Will try to get to the final if I can.
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Another final for this young side. That’s an FA youth cup semi final, and FA youth cup final and now a PL2 cup final. For a side written off by many inside and outside the club and who have been picked apart by bigger vultures, it’s some achievement. Will try to get to the final if I can.
Not forgetting despite a rotten two seasons a few of these have tasted first team action too which is massive .
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If it's true he wants 20k then I don't blame the club on this one
Ouch. Where have you heard that from and any idea whether that's on the table elsewhere?
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Ouch. Where have you heard that from and any idea whether that's on the table elsewhere?
ive not seen anything but £20k is easily available for the top teams. In 2016, Liverpool put in a cap of £40k for 17 year olds “to keep them groundedâ€. Others aren’t nearly as frugal.
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Good luck to him if he can find a club daft enough to pay that for an overweight youngster. Much as I would love to keep our promising players, we cannot afford to spend that sort of money on potential currently.
Well done to the young, committed lads who smashed it again last night.
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Well done for last night, a small ray of sunshine!
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Ouch. Where have you heard that from and any idea whether that's on the table elsewhere?
Been doing the rounds for a while on and off Dan. Not 1 particular source
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Overall I thought the lads deserved the win.
There seemed to be a good team spirit but no particular stand out players. On the night I thought Nguepissi (the lad we pinched from Blues) and the Keeper Cann looked the most mature and composed.
Always good to win important games and show you can perform under pressure (unlike the seniors).
Very best of luck in the final!
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Good luck to him if he can find a club daft enough to pay that for an overweight youngster. Much as I would love to keep our promising players, we cannot afford to spend that sort of money on potential currently.
Well done to the young, committed lads who smashed it again last night.
Part of the problem is that its not really daft. In a market where these kids are commodities £20k a week is arguably a justifiable investment for the big clubs given the potential up side.
Take Morgan Rogers for example, Man City paid us £4m and lets say they gave him £20k per week. Total outlay over 2 years is around £6m. I believe Bournemouth's promotion means they are now committed to paying £9m and he is still completely unproven. I don't know how much they paid for Liam Delap, but I guess they could sell him for £10m quite easily. They sold Sancho for £9m too having taken him from Watford and there has been others.
20k is probably not the norm. I imagine they have plenty on much less, albeit still first team level wages compared to players in the championship but there is certainly an argument that 20k a week for the best youngsters is not only sustainable but ultimately profitable.
Until the laws and regulations mean they need to compensate the development club more, its not going to stop.
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Cherries sent Morgan back. Bournemouth quite lucky they only had option to buy, not an obligation. That's something we would do
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Belated congratulations to our youngsters in getting to final continually showing up are senior pro’s.
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The Dings it is, at the Mol hopefully. Come on all lets support the kids for this one.
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The final is at The Hawthorns, Friday 13th (week today), hopefully we can get a good crowd, I will certainly be going!!
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The final is at The Hawthorns, Friday 13th (week today), hopefully we can get a good crowd, I will certainly be going!!
Ahhh what time? I'm at a gig
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Ahhh what time? I'm at a gig
kick of is at 7pm
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kick of is at 7pm
Thanks and balls.
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Got my ticket and looking forward to it.
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Only opened up the lower East Stand for now, thought it would attract a bit more interest than that tbh!
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Are supporters mixed for this?
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DOn't think so as Wolves have had a separate allocation. I think they have sold out so let's get shifting those tickets guys and back the lads in a BCD!!!
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Sounds/looks like Cleary is off as expected.
He just put up a photo of him and his team mates saying "it's been a pleasure boys from day 1", sounds like a goodbye to me. At 20k per week i don't blame the club.
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Are supporters mixed for this?
Med me loff
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How did that lad Caleb Taylor get on today?
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How did that lad Caleb Taylor get on today?
He was fine, albeit against very limited opposition. It was good to see him given game time.
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He was fine, albeit against very limited opposition. It was good to see him given game time.
Thank you. Hopefully he gets some time next season if they shift Kipre and Bartley on
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Tickets for the Cup Final v Dings sold out. Centre blocks lower East stand excluding blocks nearest Brummie and Smethwick, and that's it by the look of things. Probably limiting our supporters in order to control their's. If we give those @@@@@ tickets they will be there big style and looking for trouble. Leave well alone
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Cleary posted a farewell message it seems on Instagram. Picture of wba signpost saying what a journey it has been
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Clearly posted a farewell message it seems on Instagram. Picture of wba signpost saying what a journey it has been
havent seen myself, but sounds like Owen Windsor has done similar.
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havent seen myself, but sounds like Owen Windsor has done similar.
He was highly regarded at one point too wasnt he?
Edit - just checked his profile m yes he's said his goodbyes and that he's moving on
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He was highly regarded at one point too wasnt he?
he was when he was picked up, but sadly not everyone makes it otherwise we’d all be millionaire footballers.
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It seems the rot Dowling helped to set in has not yet been halted by Richard Stevens. Players, Parents and advisors will all talk and it seems near enough any player who stands out at the levels from under 18 down to school ages jumps ship at the first sign of interest from elsewhere. That's a major issue that we have to find a solution to. I'd say the answer is in providing a clear pathway for youngsters ala Norwich and Villa but as TGH ahs seen, we still aren't taking that seriously.
On Cleary, I am always suspect of physically mature 16-18 year olds as they have an advantage over their opposition and can shine at those ages. What happens when everyone fills out by age 21? I wouldn't be shocked if he fades.
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It seems the rot Dowling helped to set in has not yet been halted by Richard Stevens. Players, Parents and advisors will all talk and it seems near enough any player who stands out at the levels from under 18 down to school ages jumps ship at the first sign of interest from elsewhere. That's a major issue that we have to find a solution to. I'd say the answer is in providing a clear pathway for youngsters ala Norwich and Villa but as TGH ahs seen, we still aren't taking that seriously.
On Cleary, I am always suspect of physically mature 16-18 year olds as they have an advantage over their opposition and can shine at those ages. What happens when everyone fills out by age 21? I wouldn't be shocked if he fades.
In fairness to Stevens it was said that although he would stop the rot and turn the academy back around after Dowling it would take a few years at least.
As for Cleary good luck to him. As you and Hunnington say, most won't make it.
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Owen Windsor was released.
Here's a quote from the Carlisle Manager Paul Simpson
“One of the early things that happened in my time back at the football club was that he [Windsor] was informed by West Brom that he wasn’t going to get a new contract there.
“It threw him properly. He wasn’t in a great way about it. He decided that he needed to go back to West Brom, to train with West Brom, and give himself a chance of going and playing.
“I tried to explain to him that it wouldn’t help him because he’s our loan player and he wouldn’t be able to play for anybody else. He was only allowed to play for us.
“But he made that decision. I ain’t going to fight to keep a player who doesn’t want to be here, so I agreed for him to go back and be part of West Brom.
“I wish him all the best – just disappointed it didn’t work out for him.â€
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I don't think all the issues can be laid at Dowling's door for sure he didn't help much.
The problem is the top tier of young talent attracts interest from teams that are happy to pay £20k a week to under 23's with potential. This is something we cannot match (it really is 1st team level wages for clubs in our position) However we are rubbish in getting players through into the 1st team set up. So the likes of Cleary or anyone else aren't giving up anything by taking the money.
In part this because we are nearly either in a relegation or promotion battle appointing short term fix managers to achieve whatever the next target is. It never seems to be the right time to introduce a youngster which is why the dead rubber fixtures at the end of this season were such a disappointment but it's Steve Bruce so what did anybody expect?
The only way this gets better is we are forced by circumstance to blood more youngsters.
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I guess the only way we see more youngsters pushed through is if we fail to get promoted and the parachute payments run out. We certainly won't be seeing them under Bruce.
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Dowling had a part to play but the managers are more so for me, there is absolutely no path for the youngsters, this was proven even more so with the absolute garbage same old brigade that we have turned out in the previous games.
I dont blame the youngsters for leaving asap as they would look at the pathway and quickly realise that there is just not one. You reap what you sew.
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I dont blame the youngsters for leaving asap as they would look at the pathway and quickly realise that there is just not one. You reap what you sew.
It doesn't help that when they do stay, and are played and do well, we then don't let them move on for pastures more golden (I'm thinking of Berahino and Spurs). They can also see us letting our best player leave for peanuts and might think the club aren't run seriously. I can't say I'd disagree with them.
It doesn't mean I'm happy with what Cleary (or Johnstone for that matter) have done, mind.
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The problem is going to be the same one every manager has had since the takeover by the clueless. If they don't get quick results, they will be chucked. So from Bruce's point of view, the safest bet is a team of experienced journeymen who can stay in the top half of the table till Xmas and just hope to be in the mix at the end of the season. I hope I'm wrong and he can bring in a bit of style and get some sort of energy and team spirit beyond that, but I'm not holding my breath.
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There is no pathway - that has been an issue for some years.
However, let’s face facts here. Regardless of how good our pathways into the first team - the real elephant in the room is the obscene amounts being paid. Until wages are capped for youngsters then nothing will change.
if I could make double/triple the money elsewhere then I’d be on my bike too.
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There is no pathway - that has been an issue for some years.
This last season saw Taylor Gardner-Hickman, Quevin De Castro, Tom Fellows, Zac Ashworth and Caleb Taylor all make their league debuts for the first team. You can't ask much more than that.
In recent seasons Jonathan Leko, Ray Tulloch, Sam Field, Nathan Ferguson, Rekeem Harper, Kyle Edwards, Dara O'Shea have also made the first team.
Whether or not the kids then kick on is another question but I think it's fair to say a good few of them have been at least given an opportunity.
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Interesting that Brentford (sorry for mentioning them but they are a good example of modern football thinking) are toying with the idea of restarting their academy. This is because they're in the EPL and therefore have a good chance of retaining the players that the academy would produce. From this I deduce that the issue of academy or not depends on where your club is in terms of finance and league status.
For clubs like The Albion the compensation rules are not attractive.
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This last season saw Taylor Gardner-Hickman, Quevin De Castro, Tom Fellows, Zac Ashworth and Caleb Taylor all make their league debuts for the first team. You can't ask much more than that.
In recent seasons Jonathan Leko, Ray Tulloch, Sam Field, Nathan Ferguson, Rekeem Harper, Kyle Edwards, Dara O'Shea have also made the first team.
Whether or not the kids then kick on is another question but I think it's fair to say a good few of them have been at least given an opportunity.
Maybe it's nuanced, but being given a 1st team appearance and having a pathway are 2 different things. Pathways include a clear plan to develop players from academy to first team pro. We have achieved it with Dara O'Shea but there aren't too many other examples.
Take Sam Field as an example. In theory you could use him as proof of opportunities, but dig deeper and you find a number of managers who passed up the chance of using him and instead we saw him sit out months at a time between sub appearances. Fast forward to now and Sam Field is a key cog in the midfield of a side who were for the majority of the season a big player in the promotion race. He hasn't developed at QPR, it happened almost immediately after joining.
Ferguson is another example, a player who asked to discuss a contract extension in the May of 2019 but who was rebuffed. He was set to go out on loan in what would have been a make or break/last chance saloon move before Bilic decided to give him a go pre season and instantly he because 1st choice right back. Had somebody like Steve Bruce been in charge then, Ferguson may well have never played 1st team football, not because he wasn't good enough, but because he was unfancied due to age.
We need to try to avoid situations like Keemar Roofe who will play in a Europea League final in a few weeks time despite leaving here on a free having never been given a chance or a pathway here.
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Maybe it's nuanced, but being given a 1st team appearance and having a pathway are 2 different things. Pathways include a clear plan to develop players from academy to first team pro. We have achieved it with Dara O'Shea but there aren't too many other examples.
This sums up my response to Atomic really.
When you're discussing pathways - then Sam Field is the great example.
Following our relegation from the Premier League he should have become a key component of our midfield.
Instead we opted for the midfields generals of Barry, Brunt, Livermore and latterly that season Johansen.
A slow, cumbersome midfield.
He made 12 appearances that season - roughly around 532 minutes.
I appreciate the following season under Bilic he was largely side-lined by injuries.
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This sums up my response to Atomic really.
When you're discussing pathways - then Sam Field is the great example.
Following our relegation from the Premier League he should have become a key component of our midfield.
Instead we opted for the midfields generals of Barry, Brunt, Livermore and latterly that season Johansen.
A slow, cumbersome midfield.
He made 12 appearances that season - roughly around 532 minutes.
I appreciate the following season under Bilic he was largely side-lined by injuries.
I absolutely agree re. Sam Field. We completely messed him up. That though is only one example.
On the other side of the coin you have Dara O'Shea and Nathan Ferguson. Both made it.
It's not easy to make the grade in the Championship. If you think how many football leagues there are in Europe the Championship is probably the sixth or seventh best. Its an extremely high level even if it doesn't seem like it in comparison to the Premier League. Kids ultimately either sink or swim.
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On the other side of the coin you have Dara O'Shea
He was 18 or so when he joined us, I think.
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He was 18 or so when he joined us, I think.
I could be wrong but I thought he joined at 16 after school, having come over for training camps in the years before.
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Doesn't sound great for our academy, hopefully it can be rectified however.
Mods - this topic may need merging with the topic on the academy but i couldn't find it.
https://trainingground.guru/articles/burnley-lose-category-one-academy-status (https://trainingground.guru/articles/burnley-lose-category-one-academy-status)
BURNLEY'S Academy has been demoted to Category Two status and West Brom's placed into special measures following a meeting of the Professional Game Board last week - but Nottingham Forest have been granted a Category One licence pending a further inspection by auditors.
All three Academies failed their four-day on-site audits earlier this year. The process that followed was:
An on-site meeting between each Academy and the Professional Game Academy Audit Company (PGAAC) to discuss the reasons why they had failed the audit.
A meeting of the PGAAC Board to discuss the recommendations of the auditors and either revise, ratify or reject.
A meeting of English football's final arbiter, the Football Association's Professional Game Board (PGB), last week to rule on the decisions.
The PGB agreed with PGAAC's decision to withdraw Burnley's Category One licence, which had been granted on a provisional two-year basis in July 2020 (it had been provisional because Covid meant full on-site audits were not possible in 2020).
Burnley did submit a detailed ‘letter of mitigation’, along with supporting documents, arguing that the failings identified by auditors at the start of this year had been down to Covid.
The PGB have asked for further information and Burnley believe the process is still ongoing, but, as things stand, the Clarets will lose their Category One status from the start of next season. As the PGB is English football’s final arbiter, Burnley would need to mount a legal challenge through the courts in order to try and overturn their demotion.
Burnley rose from Category Three to One between 2017 and 2020, which former Chief Executive Neil Hart described as a “tremendous accolade†and Academy Manager Jon Pepper said would "help us compete for the best players and retain the best players."
READ MORE: Behind the scenes at Burnley's Academy
ALK Capital, who completed a leveraged buy-out of the club in December 2020, have consistently emphasised the importance of the youth set-up to their vision for Burnley.
When the Clarets were granted Category One licence in the summer of 2020, prior to ALK's takeover, previous Academy Manager Pepper explained the importance of the promotion in more detail.
“I think this further raising of the bar will have a really positive impact and bridge the gap between Academy football and senior football," he said.
“We’re hoping the games’ programme is enhanced, in terms of what we’ve been used to at Category Two, and in terms of recruitment it will have obvious benefits. Players are attracted to Category One environments.
“It will help us compete for the best players and retain the best players. The concept is ‘best with best’, so it will be a challenge for us on the playing side. At the older end, the 18s and 23s, we will be playing some quality opposition."
In June 2021, Pepper left the club after five years and was subsequently replaced by Jenkins, who had previously been ALK’s football advisor.
Meanwhile, West Brom have been placed into special measures, meaning they will have to meet a number of action points regarding their Academy or else lose their Category One status. A further inspection by PGAAC will take place during the 2022/23 season.
The Baggies have been a Category One club since the inception of EPPP in 2012. In fact for many years they were regarded as a flagship Academy.
Nottingham Forest have been granted a one-year Category One licence pending a further inspection by auditors during the 2022/23 season. Forest were granted a provisional Category One licence last season, having previously been a Category Two club since the start of EPPP.
Peterborough have been granted a full three-year Category Two licence following a meeting of the PGAAC board. Issues had been identified during their audit, but those have subsequently been addressed.
As TGG reported last month, Birmingham have already been demoted to Category Two status.
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The whole club was regarded as flagship, at one point, for its model.
Top to bottom has degraded clearly
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6 years of passive ownership. There's nothing Lai can't ruin
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I understand West Brom's academy will retain its Category One status for the 22/23 season, and reports suggesting it has been placed into 'special measures' are inaccurate. #WBA
Elias Burke. Hopefully this is correct
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if I read this all correctly,
we retain category 1 status for 22/23, But some special measures require implementing if we want to keep this beyond 22/23.
Seems good to me, in that, there is some oversight and clubs are not being allowed to just drift into bad ways.
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if I read this all correctly,
we retain category 1 status for 22/23, But some special measures require implementing if we want to keep this beyond 22/23.
Seems good to me, in that, there is some oversight and clubs are not being allowed to just drift into bad ways.
Well we can't rely on good old Guochuan can we
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This club are in terminal decline from top to bottom. No wonder so many players have wanted to leave the academy, we aren't even getting the basics right.
Have heard stories from some in younger age groups of scaling back on promises. Not great news, and hard not to be concerned that the club are heading towards a Birmingham City style mess in the next decade.
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if I read this all correctly,
we retain category 1 status for 22/23, But some special measures require implementing if we want to keep this beyond 22/23.
Seems good to me, in that, there is some oversight and clubs are not being allowed to just drift into bad ways.
Well I don't know about anyone else but I'm going to panic just in case. Meanwhile the kit suppliers haven't released the new strip. This clearly means the club's going to 'hell in a handcart', w'im doomed and big Dike's going to helicopter his way through games in the nude. Obviously. Genuine signs of ass et stripping on yonder horizon.
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Burke again
"Just to clear up, the inaccuracy in @ground_guru's report was in using 'special measures' - not an official term used by the Premier League. While I understand they will retain Cat 1 status for 22/23, I cannot comment on whether there are conditions attached at this stage."
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I'm going out on a limb to suggest the 'conditions' will be the academy meeting the standards set before them.
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People used to grumble when we were "a model well run medium sized club". Where's the ambition? Where's the shiny foreign owner? Be careful what you wish for.
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People used to grumble when we were "a model well run medium sized club". Where's the ambition? Where's the shiny foreign owner? Be careful what you wish for.
Well Lai certainly can't be accused of being ambitious :D
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https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2022/06/22/west-brom-get-top-academy-status-for-next-season/
So long and short of it is we have been given class 1 status for 1 year instead of the usual 3. This is to give us the opportunity to make improvements go back to the usual 3 by end of next season I think.
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The article reports that (to their knowledge), only 1 other club has ever been given a 1 year licence with terms attached - Sunderland in 2018. The clubs which have been downgraded are Birmingham City and Burnley. So Blues, Sunderland and Burnley are our current company.
Richard Stevens has been in the role for 2 years now and he gets generally positive reviews from those who deal with him, but this is a dissapointing mark against him.
With the Barry fiasco coming to light in recent months, young players flooding out of the club and now this, it's clear things are going in behind the scenes with the academy which are not good enough.
People may mock, but it is something to be concerned about.
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.......Richard Stevens has been in the role for 2 years now and he gets generally positive reviews from those who deal with him, but this is a dissapointing mark against him.
With the Barry fiasco coming to light in recent months, young players flooding out of the club and now this, it's clear things are going in behind the scenes with the academy which are not good enough.
People may mock, but it is something to be concerned about.
I'm not about to mock you and understand your concerns for our club and the academy and share a number of them myself. At the same time I've no intention of going over the Barry ground again because it's been done to death.
Regarding the cat one status we still have it and the club are apparently very confident of meeting the new criteria. If we fail with this there is no excuse but I think we'd need to look further up the chain than just Stevens.
I had a look at his LinkedIn profile and read the following: 'I have successfully written 2 Academy Performance plans and Completed the EPPP Audit process twice with outstanding feedback'.
He knows the process and what's required and we as a club have had cat one status for a decade. With Stevens' experience allied to our own I'm confident we'll reach whatever new standards have been set.
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I had a look at his LinkedIn profile and read the following: 'I have successfully written 2 Academy Performance plans and Completed the EPPP Audit process twice with outstanding feedback'.
Perhaps he'll update it now with "twice with outstanding feedback and once somewhat less than outstanding"
I'm no fan of the man, I think he's out of his depth & has a whiff of car salesman about him but I've no doubt whatever needs to be put right will be. The issues can't be too onerous or the auditors would have just bounced them down a Cat.
My lad has now left WBA & I'm not too unhappy with that, I didn't want him spending another 2 years under the current regime (and told Richard as much at our meeting) so I won't be commenting much in the future but just to say amongst the new scholars the following should all do well:
Ben Cisse GK
Deago Nelson RB
Harry Whitwell CM
Kevin Mfuamba CM
Archie Kirton RW
The one they are worried about losing is a year under but will play 18s minimum & probably 23s - Jamal Jimoh (CM). Apparently Albion have knocked back 2m+ bids from Chelsea, Man Utd & Southampton.
All the best for the new season, I'll be logging on to Barnsley's forums from now on :P
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Perhaps he'll update it now with "twice with outstanding feedback and once somewhat less than outstanding"
I'm no fan of the man, I think he's out of his depth & has a whiff of car salesman about him but I've no doubt whatever needs to be put right will be. The issues can't be too onerous or the auditors would have just bounced them down a Cat.
My lad has now left WBA & I'm not too unhappy with that, I didn't want him spending another 2 years under the current regime (and told Richard as much at our meeting) so I won't be commenting much in the future but just to say amongst the new scholars the following should all do well:
Ben Cisse GK
Deago Nelson RB
Harry Whitwell CM
Kevin Mfuamba CM
Archie Kirton RW
The one they are worried about losing is a year under but will play 18s minimum & probably 23s - Jamal Jimoh (CM). Apparently Albion have knocked back 2m+ bids from Chelsea, Man Utd & Southampton.
All the best for the new season, I'll be logging on to Barnsley's forums from now on
Sorry to read your lad hasn't had the best of experiences and I wish him well so long as he doesn't end up at the Vile ;D ;) . Meanwhile it's encouraging to read we've got more talent coming through.
The used car salesman must be doing something right though for so many of ours to be the targets of interest for others. Any further insider knowledge would be greatly appreciated regardless of whether you end up on the Barnsley boards.
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https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2022/06/22/west-brom-get-top-academy-status-for-next-season/
So long and short of it is we have been given class 1 status for 1 year instead of the usual 3. This is to give us the opportunity to make improvements go back to the usual 3 by end of next season I think.
This has to be one of the club's priorities this season. If we drop below category 1, we will attract even fewer talented youngsters.
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Thanks for your input blandy over the last few years, really useful and informative. Same as Smethdan, would always welcome your input in future and good luck to your lad at Barnsley (they do seem to be prepared to give youngsters a chance).
Dan - I agree we will probably put right the measures that have resulted in concerns for the FA, but even the fact we are having to be reassessed next year because of inadequacies is a concern when you factor what we have seen and heard from the academy this last 2 years. It's just another area of the club that seems on the face of it to be losing pace with other clubs.
I agree that's not all on Stevens, but this is his area of business and under his watch we have gone from a "full" pass to an improvements needed status. He can point to the recent success in the PL2 Cup which he can enjoy some credit for but I'm less inclined to praise him for other clubs wanting out players given the fact they will have been here prior to his arrival.
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Thanks for your input blandy over the last few years, really useful and informative. Same as Smethdan, would always welcome your input in future and good luck to your lad at Barnsley (they do seem to be prepared to give youngsters a chance).
Dan - I agree we will probably put right the measures that have resulted in concerns for the FA, but even the fact we are having to be reassessed next year because of inadequacies is a concern when you factor what we have seen and heard from the academy this last 2 years. It's just another area of the club that seems on the face of it to be losing pace with other clubs.
I agree that's not all on Stevens, but this is his area of business and under his watch we have gone from a "full" pass to an improvements needed status. He can point to the recent success in the PL2 Cup which he can enjoy some credit for but I'm less inclined to praise him for other clubs wanting out players given the fact they will have been here prior to his arrival.
Cheers both. Not to be for him after 10 years at Albion but he's enjoying a new challenge and moves up there at the weekend.
You make a fair point Baggies as Jamal has been there for 7 or more years and was a shining light from the get go. In fact it's a moot point how much the Academy actually does for a lot of the players other than provide somewhere for them to train and play. Dyer, Lynch, Cardoso & Rowe were all in the same age group and were all touted as future stars at a very young age. They were the "Dream Team" at U9s. None of them are "bolters" who have vastly improved over time. Now of course they're at Villa & Chelsea.
Therefore you'd think recruitment is most important. I haven't seen it reported anywhere but Albion's Head of Recruitment who they got in to replace Hopcroft - Jamie Russell - I gather has left to become Academy Director at Swindon Town.
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........I haven't seen it reported anywhere but Albion's Head of Recruitment who they got in to replace Hopcroft - Jamie Russell - I gather has left to become Academy Director at Swindon Town.
Will the last one out turn the lights off and close the doors behind them on the way out to save on electricity and prevent draughts please....... :-X ?
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if I read this all correctly,
we retain category 1 status for 22/23, But some special measures require implementing if we want to keep this beyond 22/23.
Seems good to me, in that, there is some oversight and clubs are not being allowed to just drift into bad ways.
Reading between the lines, it looks like an administration as opposed to an operating issue. Suspect it might be that records are not up to date.
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Cheers both. Not to be for him after 10 years at Albion but he's enjoying a new challenge and moves up there at the weekend.
You make a fair point Baggies as Jamal has been there for 7 or more years and was a shining light from the get go. In fact it's a moot point how much the Academy actually does for a lot of the players other than provide somewhere for them to train and play. Dyer, Lynch, Cardoso & Rowe were all in the same age group and were all touted as future stars at a very young age. They were the "Dream Team" at U9s. None of them are "bolters" who have vastly improved over time. Now of course they're at Villa & Chelsea.
Therefore you'd think recruitment is most important. I haven't seen it reported anywhere but Albion's Head of Recruitment who they got in to replace Hopcroft - Jamie Russell - I gather has left to become Academy Director at Swindon Town.
Sorry to hear your lad is leaving Blandy. Can i ask who it is or should i keep my nose out ;D
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Sorry to hear your lad is leaving Blandy. Can i ask who it is or should i keep my nose out ;D
Haha. No problem mate, you won’t have heard of him but his name’s Jonathan (or Jono) Bland. He wasn’t offered a scholarship at Albion, had a few offers and has decided to sign for Barnsley.
He’ll obviously still be in touch with most of the lads in the 18s & I’m still in touch with the Dads so if I hear anything juicy I’ll keep you posted ;)
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Haha. No problem mate, you won’t have heard of him but his name’s Jonathan (or Jono) Bland. He wasn’t offered a scholarship at Albion, had a few offers and has decided to sign for Barnsley.
He’ll obviously still be in touch with most of the lads in the 18s & I’m still in touch with the Dads so if I hear anything juicy I’ll keep you posted ;)
Thanks for that mate. Again, sorry to hear he is leaving but glad he's got fixed up with Barnsley. Hopefully he fulfils his dream of going pro!
Does he get his footy skills off you or best not answered 😂
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Haha. No problem mate, you won’t have heard of him but his name’s Jonathan (or Jono) Bland. He wasn’t offered a scholarship at Albion, had a few offers and has decided to sign for Barnsley.
He’ll obviously still be in touch with most of the lads in the 18s & I’m still in touch with the Dads so if I hear anything juicy I’ll keep you posted ;)
Thanks for the insight. I’ve reffed Jono in Albion academy games over the last few years and I’m not just saying this as a token gesture but I thought he was one of the standout players in that age group alongside the players you mentioned in a previous post.
Anyway, good luck to him at Barnsley, hope it goes well for him, I’m sure he’ll know who I am.
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Thanks for the insight. I’ve reffed Jono in Albion academy games over the last few years and I’m not just saying this as a token gesture but I thought he was one of the standout players in that age group alongside the players you mentioned in a previous post.
Anyway, good luck to him at Barnsley, hope it goes well for him, I’m sure he’ll know who I am.
That's nice of you to say so, thank you. Especially seeing as I'm pretty sure, Jono being Jono, you will have had some "forthright discussions" with him during the course of his Albion career ;D
I'll pass that on to him, thank you.
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That's nice of you to say so, thank you. Especially seeing as I'm pretty sure, Jono being Jono, you will have had some "forthright discussions" with him during the course of his Albion career ;D
I'll pass that on to him, thank you.
No, in all honesty, I don’t think I ever had any major disagreements with him.
I do remember one time though against Bristol City on the main pitch where he wiped someone out. I said to him “you know as well as I do if this game wasn’t on the main pitch I’d have yellow carded you for that all day†and he was like “yeah fair enough†👏
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I notice that Finley Thorndike has signed for Blues, always seemed promising for our younger squads.
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I notice that Finley Thorndike has signed for Blues, always seemed promising for our younger squads.
Hadn't he just been at Villa as well? Done the ha-trick of clubs in less than 12 months. Good luck to him
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Ted Cann, Josh Hall and Reece Shaw have all signed new deals. Cann for another year, and the other two for 2 years. All good, but the club really need to decide who their best 3 goalkeepers are in the near future.
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Curious to see Reyes Cleary hasn't signed up anywhere yet and there doesn't seem to be any news linking him elsewhere. You'd have thought he'd have had his next club done by the return of pre-season training.
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New signing for the U23's.
https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2022/07/01/west-brom-seal-signing-of-former-southampton-youngster-ramello-mitchell/
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New signing for the U23's.
https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2022/07/01/west-brom-seal-signing-of-former-southampton-youngster-ramello-mitchell/
Southampton paid £500k for him him when he was 15/16, they bought him from Birmingham in 2019 I think it was.
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The real star of the England U19 cup final victory yesterday was Tim Iroegbunam. He came in and settled the midfield which immediately allowed Chukwuemeka and even Quansah to move forward. He spread the ball well.
Pity we haven't got someone like that in our academy ::). Wonder if we could loan him for a season.
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Ted Cann, Josh Hall and Reece Shaw have all signed new deals. Cann for another year, and the other two for 2 years. All good, but the club really need to decide who their best 3 goalkeepers are in the near future.
Believe i read Shaw was being hunted by big clubs and was almost certain to go.
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Ted Cann, Josh Hall and Reece Shaw have all signed new deals. Cann for another year, and the other two for 2 years. All good, but the club really need to decide who their best 3 goalkeepers are in the near future.
In further good news so have Josh Shaw and Reece Hall.
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In further good news so have Josh Shaw and Reece Hall.
Haha, yes, that's even better news ;D
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Fair play to the club tying down Shaw and Hall. I thought shaw was a going to. Albion have some decent youngsters at the moment.
They need a break somewhere.
Interesting what will happen to Richards and Tulloch.
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Albion have confirmed that Zac Ashworth and Caleb Taylor have signed new deals running to the summer of 2025. Great news âœï¸ #wba
I suspect they will be going out on season long lones as a result
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Excellent news. Both players could have a huge future
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Excellent news. Tie down the better ones and let the dross go. Nice to see some decision making finally happening with the young uns.
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More good news on the youngsters. Need to get O'Shea sorted asap now
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Albion have confirmed that Zac Ashworth and Caleb Taylor have signed new deals running to the summer of 2025. Great news âœï¸ #wba
I suspect they will be going out on season long lones as a result
I think Taylor will but I can see Ashworth staying and challenging for the LB spot.
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Cleary played for u23’s today and scored :-\
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Cleary played for u23’s today and scored :-\
He did say it was time to get back on the goal trail on his Instagram a few days ago and then today he said "game time" or similar. Weird situation if we are letting him play for us to keep fit
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He did say it was time to get back on the goal trail on his Instagram a few days ago and then today he said "game time" or similar. Weird situation if we are letting him play for us to keep fit
Must have signed a contract. We didn’t let him play for u23’s at end of last season so can’t see why we would now.
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Must have signed a contract. We didn’t let him play for u23’s at end of last season so can’t see why we would now.
Was today a friendly?
EDIT - I posted this in ex-players thread
"Looks like Cleary has got himself somewhere now, on Insta he's just put "cant wait to get back to that scoring feeling ;) "
Interesting to see where he ends up and if anyones daft enough to pay 20k"
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Its all very odd. Why would we let a player who rejected contract offers come back to keep himself fit. He didn’t seem to have a contract last year either though despite now being able to have signed one for around 16 months.
If he had signed you’d think given the academy loses over the years they would really sing about it.
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Proper strange situation indeed.
You'd think someone, somewhere, would say something.
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That's our youth strategy isn't it? Let people train here and use our facilities for as long as they want (many years sometimes) and then watch them go and sign for someone else when they feel like it. Why change our ways now?
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It doesn't make sense for Cleary either to be playing as surely if he's unsigned he is uninsured too. If he gets crocked he's done for until he recovers. Odd club we are.
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He must have signed a contract otherwise there’s surely no way we would be playing him
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A few weeks back or so one of the other U23 players posted on his Instgram "changed your mind about signing that new contract yet?" and ( if i recall correctly) Cleary did a smile or a wink emoji so i wouldn't be totally surprised if he had signed but why would it not be announced.
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A few weeks back or so one of the other U23 players posted on his Instgram "changed your mind about signing that new contract yet?" and ( if i recall correctly) Cleary did a smile or a wink emoji so i wouldn't be totally surprised if he had signed but why would it not be announced.
Possibly because the contract only begins on 1st August (for example). Would only be announced when it legally begins.
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Possibly because the contract only begins on 1st August (for example). Would only be announced when it legally begins.
That makes sense Tim but as his old contract has expired, he confirmed it around 3-4 weeks ago on Instagram, surely that means he is playing uninsured/unregistered now?
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That makes sense Tim but as his old contract has expired, he confirmed it around 3-4 weeks ago on Instagram, surely that means he is playing uninsured/unregistered now?
I don't know, I was just trying to think of a logical reason why it hasn't been announced (assuming he has actually signed). If he's playing for us, I would guess he is covered by our insurance, in the same way that trialists are, and his registration would presumably be taken care of if he had signed a contract too. But overall, I'm as intrigued as you as to what is happening behind the scenes.
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I don't know, I was just trying to think of a logical reason why it hasn't been announced (assuming he has actually signed). If he's playing for us, I would guess he is covered by our insurance, in the same way that trialists are, and his registration would presumably be taken care of if he had signed a contract too. But overall, I'm as intrigued as you as to what is happening behind the scenes.
It's a curious one for sure. People are asking the local press on Twitter but no one replied yet.
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So the Brum mail saying his deal runs till December. How strange. He posted on his own social media he was done in June and said farewell and wished wba well etc with videos.
Brum mail saying scholarships run until 31st December each year. How did he not know this himself? Strange.
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So the Brum mail saying his deal runs till December. How strange. He posted on his own social media he was done in June and said farewell and wished wba well etc with videos.
Brum mail saying scholarships run until 31st December each year. How did he not know this himself? Strange.
Still doesn't really offer a proper explanation. Are we still hopeful that we can get him to sign a contract? If not, why are we spending time and effort developing his skills?
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Still doesn't really offer a proper explanation. Are we still hopeful that we can get him to sign a contract? If not, why are we spending time and effort developing his skills?
Article says our offer remains on table for him to sign. We ain't budging. So he's got another 5 months to put himself in shop window or sign our deal by sounds of it.
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So the Brum mail saying his deal runs till December. How strange. He posted on his own social media he was done in June and said farewell and wished wba well etc with videos.
Brum mail saying scholarships run until 31st December each year. How did he not know this himself? Strange.
his deal has expired but due to scholarship rules he can stay with us on a rolling contract until December.
all very strange however as from a club perspective i wouldn't be giving development time to someone who doesn't want to be here.
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his deal has expired but due to scholarship rules he can stay with us on a rolling contract until December.
all very strange however as from a club perspective i wouldn't be giving development time to someone who doesn't want to be here.
I'm with you. If he ain't signed yet it's doubtful he will. He's also clearly not had the offers he thought he was going to get elsewhere.
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This does not sound good at all. If he has decided to leave (fine) but he can't be allowed to pick and choose his exit. If he has any sort of pre-contract or 'understanding' of future wealth, he will be thumbing his nose at the staff and cannot be a healthy influence on our other prospects.
I think for all concerned he should not be entering the building anymore. If his advisors are putting his career on hold for a few months to avoid a compensation payment to us, that is crazy. He's already missed a big youth final and also missed many opportunities to play U23 football.
No doubt his advisors are the big winners here as ever!
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Surely this is as simple as he continues to train etc as per his contract, but unless he is signing a new one he won't get any competitive game time. I'd be shocked if he actually plays in any of the U23 league/cup games.
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This does not sound good at all. If he has decided to leave (fine) but he can't be allowed to pick and choose his exit.
If it’s in the terms of the contract he can do pretty much as he likes. My understanding is that unlike most football contracts that run until the end of June this type is done by calendar year because of age restrictions etc. His situation is really no different to that of a first team player informing the club in Jan/Feb that he won’t be renewing his contract when it runs out at the end of June (effectively its the end of the season but….)
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If it’s in the terms of the contract he can do pretty much as he likes. My understanding is that unlike most football contracts that run until the end of June this type is done by calendar year because of age restrictions etc. His situation is really no different to that of a first team player informing the club in Jan/Feb that he won’t be renewing his contract when it runs out at the end of June (effectively its the end of the season but….)
Surely as his employer, if we feel it is detrimental to the 'group' he can be sent on garden leave until December (or we get some compensation) to allow him to move earlier. We've had a few players who lorded it over the rest when big clubs came sniffing and this was very much not appreciated by the coaching staff.
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We could just not pick him, but then would we be cutting our nose to spite our face? If we play him, he may well decide to sign the contract on offer here once he realises there aren't many suitors for him.
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Surely as his employer, if we feel it is detrimental to the 'group' he can be sent on garden leave until December (or we get some compensation) to allow him to move earlier. We've had a few players who lorded it over the rest when big clubs came sniffing and this was very much not appreciated by the coaching staff.
PFA protects players from gardening leave. They have to be able to use training facilities, although you can ask them to go before or after the rest of the squad.
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PFA protects players from gardening leave. They have to be able to use training facilities, although you can ask them to go before or after the rest of the squad.
Whilst that option may be open to is, I personally think that doing something like that would play badly internally. These are all lads who have grown up playing together, and if we start treating one in a (perceived) poor way, it will not do us any favours with his peer group. You only have to have a breeze through their Instagrams to see how close-knit they all are. If he's going, he's going, good luck to him. I genuinely hope he does alright. If he can be persuaded to stay by us when his £20k a week contract doesn't materialise by being remaining civil and accommodating then all the better.
Also there may not be any bad blood there: we as fans take it all very personally. Objectively he's set out what he wants currently, we're not willing to meet it. It doesn't mean that he now thinks less of us, nor the management think less of him. He's been with us since he was a kid, so I imagine there's a long term relationship between the club and the player.
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PFA protects players from gardening leave. They have to be able to use training facilities, although you can ask them to go before or after the rest of the squad.
Fair enough!
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Whilst that option may be open to is, I personally think that doing something like that would play badly internally. These are all lads who have grown up playing together, and if we start treating one in a (perceived) poor way, it will not do us any favours with his peer group. You only have to have a breeze through their Instagrams to see how close-knit they all are. If he's going, he's going, good luck to him. I genuinely hope he does alright. If he can be persuaded to stay by us when his £20k a week contract doesn't materialise by being remaining civil and accommodating then all the better.
Also there may not be any bad blood there: we as fans take it all very personally. Objectively he's set out what he wants currently, we're not willing to meet it. It doesn't mean that he now thinks less of us, nor the management think less of him. He's been with us since he was a kid, so I imagine there's a long term relationship between the club and the player.
I agree. I wouldn’t do it, I was just making the point you can’t banish completely. I’d let him train and treat him as normal but I wouldn’t play him.
What I don’t understand is why if any club is prepared to pay him 20k a week, why they wouldn’t just pay £500,000 to get him now. Leaving him in limbo with us doesn’t make any sense since they’ll surely have to pay some compensation regardless.
It makes me wonder if the sort of money suggested isn’t infact on that table just yet. It may be if we let him play more and he runs riot from august to December though.
We simply have to not play him until we can either get him to u-turn and sign or he leaves anyway.
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I wouldn't presume the 20k a week stuff is necessarily true. On the face of it, he's not involved with England at age group level which is perhaps more telling of how he's viewed in the wider football community, and last season was his breakout season but a good goalscoring record in the under 18's isn't uncommon at all.
Perhaps he could get a better club than us but I doubt he's the level of being able to set the demands of 20k a week and get remotely any interest.
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Josh Griffiths having a medical at Pompey for a season long loan. The right decision, let Palmer battle for the number 1 spot here.
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Josh Griffiths having a medical at Pompey for a season long loan. The right decision, let Palmer battle for the number 1 spot here.
It is indeed the right decision, for the player and the club. I would like to see Palmer at some stage as I still have concerns over Button. We shall see as I do not expect us to be signing a new keeper.
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Griffiths will get a lot of games which will help him better then battling for number 1. Personally i think he should be number 1 the following season. Button & Palmer are fill ins really
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Therefore you'd think recruitment is most important. I haven't seen it reported anywhere but Albion's Head of Recruitment who they got in to replace Hopcroft - Jamie Russell - I gather has left to become Academy Director at Swindon Town.
Just a quick update on this one. It appears the new Academy Head of Recruitment is Tom Brady (not that Tom Brady).
Tom was Hopcroft's assistant a few years ago, then left to work at Stoke & Villa and has most recently been working as a talent spotter for one of the big agencies.
Good appointment imho.
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Just a quick update on this one. It appears the new Academy Head of Recruitment is Tom Brady (not that Tom Brady).
Tom was Hopcroft's assistant a few years ago, then left to work at Stoke & Villa and has most recently been working as a talent spotter for one of the big agencies.
Good appointment imho.
Just looked him up, been in post for three months now according to his LinkedIn page. Here's hoping for good things.
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/josh-griffiths-heads-portsmouth-202223-campaign?fbclid=IwAR0uNcUUAtTZRLzDug8liJhpdco3l7oiUoErYol65CclFerAmPmpRr-ULDk
Gone on loan for the season but we have 24 hour recall right.
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Castro sent on loan to Burton
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/quevin-castro-completes-loan-switch-burton?fbclid=IwAR1xzo4HGRk7_XiP0_IGgQe-ylA4pAqjUR4I_w5mjxG3cQlMplZEKGUfHNg
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Two good loans, Castro has something but really needs to develop a rounded game, League One is a good stage for him. Griffiths continues gradually getting better and better clubs, Bazunu from Portsmouth last year got a 12m move out his loan so he's got big boots to fill. Hopefully a good season there and he can return here as a starter.
Now should be looking to get some of the others out the door on good loans, notably Ashworth and Caleb Taylor. We have a terrible habit of keeping players around from the academy for squad depth and never come close to getting minutes for us.
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Taylor definitely needs a loan. Ashworth should also go get one and as is stands TGH if Bruce doesnt fancy him as first choice in cm or rb
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Saw Castro in Tesco Thetford Tuesday evening and he had the yellow / blue away top on, looked relaxed and when I acknowledged him, he was all smiles. He is a tall / lean unit by the way
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Pleased to see Castro go out on loan. He has something raw that could be worked on but his game management was atrocious and it needs to be one of his strongest points in the role he seems to want to play. If he can get 40 games at Burton then we can hopefully look at him again next season.
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Good moves by Albion.
If ever there was a kid crying out for a loan it's Castro. He looked out of his depth on the odd occasion he figured last season, really needs to learn and understand the game. It's a good move for him.
The Griffiths loan is ideal as the club have very shrewdly insisted on a recall option at any time really. That covers us if anything happens to Button or Palmer and means we don't need to pay the wage of a third keeper.
It'll do Griffiths no harm to be playing league football, the only question I ask is when is he going to be given the GK Jersey here? I guess there's no rush.
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Good moves by Albion.
If ever there was a kid crying out for a loan it's Castro. He looked out of his depth on the odd occasion he figured last season, really needs to learn and understand the game. It's a good move for him.
The Griffiths loan is ideal as the club have very shrewdly insisted on a recall option at any time really. That covers us if anything happens to Button or Palmer and means we don't need to pay the wage of a third keeper.
It'll do Griffiths no harm to be playing league football, the only question I ask is when is he going to be given the GK Jersey here? I guess there's no rush.
Have we not still got Ted Cann here? Or has he gone out on loan as well and I've missed it?
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Yes he extended contract for this season to be with the u23's.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/albion-youngsters-extend-hawthorns-stay
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What I cannot get my head round with the Cleary saga now running until December is why did Cleary announce he was leaving in the summer. He posted thanking the club and staff.
It just makes you think did noone in the club not know he was under contract until December and therefore he didn't know?
Just send really odd that he would get it wrong.
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What I cannot get my head round with the Cleary saga now running until December is why did Cleary announce he was leaving in the summer. He posted thanking the club and staff.
It just makes you think did noone in the club not know he was under contract until December and therefore he didn't know?
Just send really odd that he would get it wrong.
Even If the club did slip up they don't have to pick him in these games , more of this story to unfold I'd guess.
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Have we not still got Ted Cann here? Or has he gone out on loan as well and I've missed it?
Yeah Ted Cann is still here. He wouldn't be seen as part of the first team squad though.
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What I cannot get my head round with the Cleary saga now running until December is why did Cleary announce he was leaving in the summer. He posted thanking the club and staff.
It just makes you think did noone in the club not know he was under contract until December and therefore he didn't know?
Just send really odd that he would get it wrong.
I think it’s more likely that he either misunderstood his situation, or was so sure that someone would pick him up this summer that he could say goodbyes then. As I understand it the compensation to sign him either now or after December as minimal and is the same amount regardless of when you sign him, so if he hasn’t got a deal yet it suggests the reported interest simply isn’t there.
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Caleb Taylor was very good last night i thought. Can see why he's tipped as one for the future. No messing about. Decent on the ball too.
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Caleb Taylor was very good last night i thought. Can see why he's tipped as one for the future. No messing about. Decent on the ball too.
Bruce has said he'll be having a good look at him during pre season and decide whether to send him out on loan or keep him with us. Is he one for the future or one for the now ? At 19 and given his size, he's not too young to be considered as one of our 4 centre backs.
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Bruce has said he'll be having a good look at him during pre season and decide whether to send him out on loan or keep him with us. Is he one for the future or one for the now ? At 19 and given his size, he's not too young to be considered as one of our 4 centre backs.
He looked too good for L1. He was not troubled at all. Either stays with us and fills Kipres place or i would send on loan to lower champo and see how he gets on with recall option.
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Taylor has to go out. If he stays, I'm fairly certain Bruce will barely use him.
35 games plus in either League one, or League two if necessary will see us get a far better player back.
League 2 until January with a recall to go to League one might be sensible. There is too much risk to send that he ends up with little game time if he goes to another championship side.
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Taylor has to go out. If he stays, I'm fairly certain Bruce will barely use him.
35 games plus in either League one, or League two if necessary will see us get a far better player back.
League 2 until January with a recall to go to League one might be sensible. There is too much risk to send that he ends up with little game time if he goes to another championship side.
League 2 is way below him already. Thats a year wasted.
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I saw him in the final against the Wolves and he was head and shoulders above anyone else - both physically and performance.
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Bruce saying he will look at him is just empty words - we all know it. There's no chance he will start him in the championship, nothing to do with form or ability, he's just far too young.
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League 2 is way below him already. Thats a year wasted.
Based on what? Everyone in the game talks about mens football and the pressures of it are completely different. 20 games in League two will do him no harm. If he smashes it he can get still get 20 games in League one this season.
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Based on what? Everyone in the game talks about mens football and the pressures of it are completely different. 20 games in League two will do him no harm. If he smashes it he can get still get 20 games in League one this season.
Based on the times I've seen him. What would you base him not being good enough for a higher level on?
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Based on the times I've seen him. What would you base him not being good enough for a higher level on?
He's played 28 minutes in the championship, 41 minutes in the FA Cup and 82 minutes in the League Cup. In the league cup. The championship minutes was a meaningless end of season game when we were romping. The League cup game we lost 6-0.
We don't really have any idea how ready he is. League 2 for half a season is not the end of the world to get minutes and experience. Far better than potentially sitting on another bench higher up.
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He's played 28 minutes in the championship, 41 minutes in the FA Cup and 82 minutes in the League Cup. In the league cup. The championship minutes was a meaningless end of season game that we romping. The League cup game we lost 6-0.
We don't really have any idea how ready he is. League 2 for half a season is not the end of the world to get minutes and experience. Far better than potentially sitting on another bench higher up.
I don't want him sitting on the bench don't get me wrong. That's why I'm saying if he stays it has to be that he is a serious consideration to play.
Read an article today where Bruce says they are deciding if he goes to league 1 or possibly championship which I feel is right for his potential and what he's shown so far
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I don't want him sitting on the bench don't get me wrong. That's why I'm saying if he stays it has to be has a serious consideration to play.
Read an article today where Bruce says they are deciding if he goes to league 1 or possibly championship which I feel is right for his potential and what he's shown so far
Agree with you, he needs to go to a league one club if he's going out on loan, preferably with a recall option. From what I've seen (admittedly not a huge amount), and reports about his pre-season form, he is close to being good enough for the Championship.
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Agree with you, he needs to go to a league one club if he's going out on loan, preferably with a recall option. From what I've seen (admittedly not a huge amount), and reports about his pre-season form, he is close to being good enough for the Championship.
I've not seen Taylor a lot either, as JC says he's not really played a lot, but sometimes you can just tell when someone has 'it' like Nathan Ferguson, it was clear he was already good enough for the Champo. He just needed the chance. What happened at the end of the season is a whole different subject ;D
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There was a video with Tom Fellows and Ingram after the youth team won the cup and they both said what a professional Taylor was. Always first in training and encouraging his team
Positive signs for the big lad.
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Caleb Taylor has signed for Cheltenham on a season long loan. Good luck Caleb!
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Good to see him getting game time rather than splinters in his backside.
Hopefully we can get Tom Fellows out too.
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We must be bringing in another CB then I would imagine.
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We must be bringing in another CB then I would imagine.
Indeed.
League 1 is a fair move, L2 would have been a massive waste IMO
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Not sure about this. If we're bringing in another CB (Matt Clarke?) then OK. If not it leaves us short.
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Not sure about this. If we're bringing in another CB (Matt Clarke?) then OK. If not it leaves us short.
I say they must be confident of having a replacement but with our lot who knows although things do seem to be improving at the upper levels.
We have Ajayi, O'Shea, Bartley fit and Bryan who is out injured. 3 fit CB's and Bartley is being managed back after his injury. Risky indeed.
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Play Livermore as CB - probably his best position now
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Play Livermore as CB - probably his best position now
Please no. He was outpaced by the Oxford players.
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Please no. He was outpaced by the Oxford players.
if you're relying on pace as a centre back, you've already made a mistake.
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if you're relying on pace as a centre back, you've already made a mistake.
Some get away with it due to pace, Ajayi usually.
Livermore doesn't meet any of the standards i'd want in a CB
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Livermore could do a job in an emergency but it's no substitute for a proper centre half and over a number of games he'd soon get exposed.
It's essential we bring in a striker and a centre half. I'd like a right back as well but I don't think that will happen.
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Could work if he had the positional acumen of a gmac. OK it’s a bad idea
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Livermore could do a job in an emergency but it's no substitute for a proper centre half and over a number of games he'd soon get exposed.
It's essential we bring in a striker and a centre half. I'd like a right back as well but I don't think that will happen.
Furlong
Oshea
TGH
The concern is LB, there is just Townsend.
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Phillips
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Furlong
Oshea
TGH
The concern is LB, there is just Townsend.
I think Bruce is content with having Reach as cover. Ideally we ha e a rotation option who can put pressure on Conor.
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Furlong
Oshea
TGH
The concern is LB, there is just Townsend.
Ashworth, Reach at LB.
If you play OShea at right back you may have to reshuffle the defence which is never ideal and he's not a natural in the position either. TGH I'm not quite sure where he fits at the moment to be honest.
It's not just cover we could do with for Furlong it's an actual upgrade.
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Phillips
Phillips can't play right back.
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Furlong
Oshea
TGH
The concern is LB, there is just Townsend.
Ashworth and Reach played LB against Oxford too
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Phillips can't play right back.
I don’t get your point, he cannot play cf but has 😉
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I don’t get your point, he cannot play cf but has 😉
I think his point wasn't that Phillips couldn't play right back, but that he shouldn't, because he's rubbish there. And he'd be right.
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I think his point wasn't that Phillips couldn't play right back, but that he shouldn't, because he's rubbish there. And he'd be right.
"Your Scientists Were So Preoccupied With Whether Or Not They Could, They Didn’t Stop To Think If They Should"
- Ian Malcolm (Jurassic Park)
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Hertha U23 report and photos
https://www.herthabsc.com/en/news/2022/07/match-report-west-brom-and-watford-u23s
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Josh Griffiths saved a penalty for Pompey today vs Coventry.
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Pete O'Rourke
@SportsPeteO
West Brom rising star Ethan Ingram is a loan target for a number of EFL clubs, including MK Dons, Cheltenham and Crewe. #WBA #mkdons #ctfc #CreweAlex
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If Cheltenham will play him, get him there to play with Taylor.
Having Griffiths, Taylor, Ingram and even Ashworth back in 12 months with 40 league one appearances would be great for us, particularly if they impress at that level.
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If Cheltenham will play him, get him there to play with Taylor.
Having Griffiths, Taylor, Ingram and even Ashworth back in 12 months with 40 league one appearances would be great for us, particularly if they impress at that level.
dont forget Quevin is at Burton too.
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dont forget Quevin is at Burton too.
Our Fidel….as we call him.
I’m hoping that when he gets a goal, he lights an imaginary cigar .
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If Cheltenham will play him, get him there to play with Taylor.
Having Griffiths, Taylor, Ingram and even Ashworth back in 12 months with 40 league one appearances would be great for us, particularly if they impress at that level.
I think this is an encouraging sign the acedemy is starting to produce decent quality players. 4-5 years ago these lads were generally been loaned out to league 2 & non league teams. I can only really remember Dara & Morton been loaned out to league clubs (& O’Shea was league 2)
We now have Griffiths, Taylor potentially Ingram playing league 1 football. I’ve not seen enough of Ashworth or Fellows to know if they could play at league 1 level but I certainly think they could pick a loan up with a club in the football league. TGH should be in the squad this year if he’s not he should get a loan to a championship club. Hopefully this trend of the acedemy producing players that can go into league 1 teams on the first loan continues I certainly think 2 or 3 of these lads will be in or around the starting 11 in the next 2-3 years.
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If Cheltenham will play him, get him there to play with Taylor.
Having Griffiths, Taylor, Ingram and even Ashworth back in 12 months with 40 league one appearances would be great for us, particularly if they impress at that level.
I knew the U23s were a close knit group but I had no idea their bonds were that strong. Cheltenham's only down the road, he'll be fine playing with himself for a few months.......
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I knew the U23s were a close knit group but I had no idea their bonds were that strong. Cheltenham's only down the road, he'll be fine playing with himself for a few months.......
they'd be better playing at Forest in Ardon on that basis, At least being in Cheltenham he's close to The Hollow Bottom (well worth a visit BTW)
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they'd be better playing at Forest in Ardon on that basis, At least being in Cheltenham he's close to The Hollow Bottom (well worth a visit BTW)
I'll take your word for it if it's all the same ;D .
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I'll take your word for it if it's all the same ;D .
and there was me thinking you were a man of the world, if you aint ever had a few in the hollow bottom, you aint lived !
https://www.hollowbottom.com/
There is a link at the bottom to stay in touch (fnar, fnar!!)
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Caleb Taylor only on the bench for Cheltenham. Griffiths has conceded two at Sheffield W but his mates have scored 3
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Cleary signed two year contract with wba.
Surprised it is two years though.
Good news though. Too soon to be included in first team but cou ok d feature Vs Sheff Utd?
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Two years does seem short.
Will be interesting to see if we can get him out on loan this season to get some minutes and experience under his belt.
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He probably didn't want to commit for too long as he's still waiting on the giants of European footy to offer him a mega-deal.
He hasn't posted about it on his Instagram either.
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Two years does seem short.
Will be interesting to see if we can get him out on loan this season to get some minutes and experience under his belt.
I'd be tempted to put him on the bench against Watford on Monday night.
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He probably didn't want to commit for too long as he's still waiting on the giants of European footy to offer him a mega-deal.
He hasn't posted about it on his Instagram either.
Your stalking him on social media doesn't seem as creepy now he's turned 18 :P .
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Your stalking him on social media doesn't seem as creepy now he's turned 18 :P .
He's 18??? . Just unfollowed him Dan, thanks for heads up ;D
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The whole saga has been bizarre.
It could be that he didn't want to commit for longer than 2 years, but it could also be that we still have doubts. If he does well this season though, we will need to offer him another contract quite quickly we may not be too far away from the Cleary contract saga 2.
It will be interesting to see what the clubs plans are for both him and Rico Richards this year. Richards seemed like one of the most highly rated 13/14 year old's in the country but you barely hear much about him anymore and he is 19 soon. I'd be temped to get them both in to league 2 if possible.
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Just been on his Instagram and he's deleted everything he posted from June until now. The 'farewell WBA' etc posts have all gone. Poor mite.
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The whole saga has been bizarre.
It could be that he didn't want to commit for longer than 2 years, but it could also be that we still have doubts. If he does well this season though, we will need to offer him another contract quite quickly we may not be too far away from the Cleary contract saga 2.
It will be interesting to see what the clubs plans are for both him and Rico Richards this year. Richards seemed like one of the most highly rated 13/14 year old's in the country but you barely hear much about him anymore and he is 19 soon. I'd be temped to get them both in to league 2 if possible.
Rico Richards missed a chunk of last season through injury. He worked VERY hard during his rehab from what I've been told. Looked rusty when he came on against Wolves in the U23s League Cup Final. Really hope he can get back on track as he's got talent.
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Hearing two more coaches have left/quit and at least one gone to seal park :(
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Hearing two more coaches have left/quit and at least one gone to seal park :(
Villa are paying higher wages than everyone else.
They have taken youth players from all over the country - friend of mine teaches at a private school and villa are paying for loads of kids to go there.
They are the next chelsea
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Rico Richards missed a chunk of last season through injury. He worked VERY hard during his rehab from what I've been told. Looked rusty when he came on against Wolves in the U23s League Cup Final. Really hope he can get back on track as he's got talent.
Richards will be sold on or released. Hasn't impressed Steve Bruce
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Villa are paying higher wages than everyone else.
They have taken youth players from all over the country - friend of mine teaches at a private school and villa are paying for loads of kids to go there.
They are the next chelsea
Would that be the Priory School in Edgbaston by any chance?
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Aston Villa are making themselves into a Chelsea. Signing loads of young players in hope they sell them for a profit. With the best coaching available. Its a bugger
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Richards will be sold on or released. Hasn't impressed Steve Bruce
Players get released all the time. I don't suppose Steve Bruce is planning to bulldoze the academy by any chance?
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Richards will be sold on or released. Hasn't impressed Steve Bruce
Do you actually know that ? It takes a bit of time sometimes to recover fully from injuries. He's contracted for this season so hopefully he gets an injury free year and chance to impress without being written off just yet.
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Aston Villa are making themselves into a Chelsea. Signing loads of young players in hope they sell them for a profit. With the best coaching available. Its a bugger
If that's what they are doing, makes more sense than paying silly money several years down the track. We should be investing more in our academy likewise.
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If that's what they are doing, makes more sense than paying silly money several years down the track. We should be investing more in our academy likewise.
We should do indeed. Its basically flopped from a converation to 1st team ratio.
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Nixon has just tweeted one of our strikers has joined Rochdale so assuming it's one of the kids. Wonder who.
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Tulloch has joined Rochdale on loan
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Cleary scores 2 times in the final 5 minutes to bring us from 1 down to win 2-1 against Newcastle.
Edit - Give him some minutes in the cup on Thursday for me.
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Tulloch has joined Rochdale on loan
They may as well just sell him. He has been on the periphery of the first team for 2/3 years if not longer and it appears his chances are very limited.
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Wonder if Cleary will get a loan, clearly too good for youth football. Be tempted with a 6 month loan in league 1/2 and see if he can do a job for the second half of the season.
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Would that be the Priory School in Edgbaston by any chance?
No, it's a private school around Sutton.
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Aston Villa are making themselves into a Chelsea. Signing loads of young players in hope they sell them for a profit. With the best coaching available. Its a bugger
For me, their approach is more similar to Southampton. Hoover up the kids from the locality.
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5 academy graduates started last night with 3 on the bench. This is so good to see :)
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Hearing two more coaches have left/quit and at least one gone to seal park :(
do we know who
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do we know who
Interestingly I popped on here to see if this has been mentioned. The word is Peter Gilbert is moving on...possibly to Villa 23s. Like I say, I'm not there now so can't be certain, but thats what I've heard.
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Interestingly I popped on here to see if this has been mentioned. The word is Peter Gilbert is moving on...possibly to Villa 23s. Like I say, I'm not there now so can't be certain, but thats what I've heard.
There's something very unhealthy about their obsession with our academy players and staff members.
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Albion released 9 youth players in the summer
Jamie Soule, Owen Windsor, Aurio Teixeira, Kevin Joshua, Zak Delaney, Mark Chidi, MacKenzie Lamb, Leon MacHisa and Daniel Ngoma.
Only MacKenzie Lamb (Peterborough United) & Zak Delaney (Inverness) have found a club.
Amazing how many free agents are still around. Clubs seem to have smaller squads and even non-league teams cant afford/needed a big squad.
Seems there is a change happening
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Albion released 9 youth players in the summer
Jamie Soule, Owen Windsor, Aurio Teixeira, Kevin Joshua, Zak Delaney, Mark Chidi, MacKenzie Lamb, Leon MacHisa and Daniel Ngoma.
Only MacKenzie Lamb (Peterborough United) & Zak Delaney (Inverness) have found a club.
Amazing how many free agents are still around. Clubs seem to have smaller squads and even non-league teams cant afford/needed a big squad.
Seems there is a change happening
Also an indictment of our academy development of u23 players. Albion academy players u16 are in real demand when released. They generally walk into a lower academy.
What changes at u23?
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Also an indictment of our academy development of u23 players. Albion academy players u16 are in real demand when released. They generally walk into a lower academy.
What changes at u23?
Basically every other club is also running an academy so there's plenty of spots for a released under 16 to find another club if released (at least from a decent academy). By under 23 level most those released have aged out of academy football, most clubs particularly lower down do not run big squads with lots of reserves. Much fewer spots and much wider competition. You go from competing with other released academy players to find a spot to every free agent on the market.
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Tom Fellows has joined Crawley Town on loan for season
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A good deal for Crawley.
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A good deal for Crawley.
Sensible as he needs first team football to build up his experience.
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A little disappointed he's joined the team currently 22nd in League Two but does definitely need the game time - and we seemingly are still prioritising wingers so game time is going to be very limited.
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Fellows does look further behind TGH/Taylor etc in my opinion, a good move for the lad
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https://www.rofc.co.uk/news/player-new--dream-move-for-harper-bailey-as-pics-provide-platform
Signed a lad from Rushall Olympic
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Castro gone to Notts County according to WBA Instagram. Sadly his level of belief was far greater than his ability but fair play to the lad.
"wba
Quevin Castro has joined Notts County on loan until January. Good luck, Quevin. 🤝"
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Castro gone to Notts County according to WBA Instagram. Sadly his level of belief was far greater than his ability but fair play to the lad.
"wba
Quevin Castro has joined Notts County on loan until January. Good luck, Quevin. 🤝"
We've almost certainly seen the last of him. He's out of contract next summer. I very much doubt he'll be offered another one.
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We've almost certainly seen the last of him. He's out of contract next summer. I very much doubt he'll be offered another one.
Yeah sadly he's not good enough. Had a few flashes of promise in his first game or 2 but not much else. The fact that Burton binned him off after 5 games says it all
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Yeah sadly he's not good enough. Had a few flashes of promise in his first game or 2 but not much else. The fact that Burton binned him off after 5 games says it all
Interesting the loan is only til January, as I am sure the FIFA rule that you can only play for two clubs in one season still exists.
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Interesting the loan is only til January, as I am sure the FIFA rule that you can only play for two clubs in one season still exists.
Was his first not classed as a youth loan hence Burton could negotiate to send him back?
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If we got castro out on a youth loan does that mean we can still get ashworth out?
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Castro played very well for Notts County apparently. Could be his level.
Caleb Taylor earning rave reviews again.
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Article on Calebs development. We have to get him or Kipre back in Jan 2023. We can't have stroppy Bartley playing week in, week out.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/west-brom-cheltenham-caleb-transfer-25027669
"He has made an excellent start," Jon Palmer, Cheltenham correspondent for GloucestershireLive , tells us. "Considering this is his first loan, he has handled the step up from under 23 football extremely well.
"He has been picked for every League One game since, establishing himself in the middle of the back three and playing with real maturity and composure.
"He has certainly made a positive impact with supporters. He was Cheltenham’s best player in the opening month of the season, in my opinion, and Robins fans will be aware they are watching a potential star of the future."
Of course for the centre half, who is facing a battle week in week out against experienced, physical forwards, League One is a step up again but he is already applying himself admirably.
"He is dominant in the air and always seems to be in control with the ball at his feet. He never looks rushed due to his positional awareness and ability to read situations," Jon assessed.
"He can dribble out from the back, pass accurately and incisively, tackle and win headers, which is not a bad skill set for a teenage centre-half. His attitude has also been first-class and he has settled into the squad smoothly and made a favourable impression in the dressing room."
With Albion's defensive situation being what is is, there'll inevitably be calls for Albion to consider recalling Taylor once the January transfer window reopens. You can't help but think, though, that the player might return next summer that bit more polished if he can go on to play the bulk of 50 games between now and the season's end.
A well rounded Taylor, heading back to The Hawthorns and straight into the centre half reckoning next summer - particularly with Bartley and Bryan out of contract and the centre back options being even skinnier than they are currently - could save Albion finances in the transfer market.
"It’s easy to forget that he is only 19 and to be playing in such a key position and performing as he has been suggests he has a successful career at a higher level ahead of him," Jon added.
"Cheltenham have been fortunate to have brought in young defenders Jacob Greaves from Hull City and Mattie Pollock from Watford in recent seasons.
"Both of them did extremely well and have kicked on since returning to their higher level parent clubs. Based on the opening weeks of this season, Taylor is fully capable of doing the same."
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Great news he's playing well, but why did we send him to a team that plays three at the back, if Bruce wants to play a back four?
Who is our loans manager? Does anyone know?
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Great news he's playing well, but why did we send him to a team that plays three at the back, if Bruce wants to play a back four?
Who is our loans manager? Does anyone know?
Didn't he get sacked? Wasn't he related to John Terry? Or have i gone back too far?
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Great news he's playing well, but why did we send him to a team that plays three at the back, if Bruce wants to play a back four?
Who is our loans manager? Does anyone know?
I don't recall us appointing anyone following the departure of Paul Terry.
I assume it will fall under Deon Burton's remit.
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Interesting that Caleb's playing in the centre of a back three. I suggested that should be his starting berth if he'd got a game under Val as he's a bit slow on the turn and players either side of him could cover.
Also that according to the linked article we've sent him to a club playing with a back three when our current manager favours a central pairing of two. Still, all about game time and new experiences.
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Whatever happened to reserve team football? I understand the need to develop players, etc and you could still have an U21 league but we (and others) would benefit massively now with reserve team football with no age restrictions, particularly with the size of squads these days, your fringe players get game time in their legs (Reach, Livermore, Phillips, Furlong, etc), but more importantly the likes of Palmer, Kelly, Pieters, Rogic, eventually Dike get much needed match practice and fitness into them so all are ready to challenge the current 11 at any point.
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You can play up to three (I think) over 23s in the under 23s games, so they can of they want give players match practice. In fact it's quite common for players coming back from injury to do so.
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Zohore was a regular feature of the U23s before injury put paid to his scoring hot streak against other team's kids.
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You can play up to three (I think) over 23s in the under 23s games, so they can of they want give players match practice. In fact it's quite common for players coming back from injury to do so.
Is three enough though? Surely for fitness, match practice and competitive football benefiting the club, being able to field a team ready to challenge would be more beneficial, so for example for us this week could be
Palmer
Furlong
Kelly
Pieters
Ashworth
Phillips
Livermore
Rogic
Reach
Zohore
Cleary
Then add the likes of Bryan, Dike and Ajayi to aid their comebacks, and Bartley as severe punishment every week just for being sheet! :)
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WBA PL2 2-1 Derby PL2 (Mo Faal and Reyes Cleary scoring ours)
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WBA PL2 2-1 Derby PL2 (Mo Faal and Reyes Cleary scoring ours)
Just seen the highlights. Cleary could have had three or four but he always seems to work the keeper.
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Just seen the highlights. Cleary could have had three or four but he always seems to work the keeper.
Yes mate, that is what I like about him. Bruce however will not give him a chance seemingly.
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Caleb Taylor killing it in league 1
Edit - He's doing so well you have to scroll across the picture to see his stats.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdPkj8kXkAAhRj_?format=jpg&name=large)
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Elias saying Ethan Ingram stood out for the England U20s last night in a group with Liam Delap etc
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He's a good prospect but seems to be written off after an average game vs Derby and blamed by the fans
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He's a good prospect but seems to be written off after an average game vs Derby and blamed by the fans
I must say Ingram has not personally impressed me but it's nice to hear he is doing well and playing somewhere.
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I must say Ingram has not personally impressed me but it's nice to hear he is doing well and playing somewhere.
to my knowledge he’s still here?
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to my knowledge he’s still here?
Yes but by looks of last nights teams the U20s are better than u23s, he's one that should be out on loan playing first team football in L2 or lower.
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Caleb Taylor killing it in league 1
Edit - He's doing so well you have to scroll across the picture to see his stats.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FdPkj8kXkAAhRj_?format=jpg&name=large)
The only note of caution I would make about that stat is that it says Taylor is a very "busy" defender, who gets himself around well and gets through a lot of work, which is possibly aided by how poor Cheltenham have been this season meaning he gets lots of chances to get in the action.
The circle size apparently denotes the tackle success and the bigger the circle, the more successful challenges. Taylor's is a relatively small circle so you would probably need a good analyst who understands the stats better to say which is more important - the busy-ness or the tackle success (looking at MarkW or Stan here who understand these stats).
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The only note of caution I would make about that stat is that it says Taylor is a very "busy" defender, who gets himself around well and gets through a lot of work, which is possibly aided by how poor Cheltenham have been this season meaning he gets lots of chances to get in the action.
The circle size apparently denotes the tackle success and the bigger the circle, the more successful challenges. Taylor's is a relatively small circle so you would probably need a good analyst who understands the stats better to say which is more important - the busy-ness or the tackle success (looking at MarkW or Stan here who understand these stats).
Either way he's doing better than BArtley!
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He's a good prospect but seems to be written off after an average game vs Derby and blamed by the fans
Having watched a few U23 games I have thought that Ingram is a more natural FB than TGH. Both need a chance or a loan.
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I believe their are big clubs looking at poaching Akeel Higgins. Lets just hope its not the vile again!
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The only note of caution I would make about that stat is that it says Taylor is a very "busy" defender, who gets himself around well and gets through a lot of work, which is possibly aided by how poor Cheltenham have been this season meaning he gets lots of chances to get in the action.
The circle size apparently denotes the tackle success and the bigger the circle, the more successful challenges. Taylor's is a relatively small circle so you would probably need a good analyst who understands the stats better to say which is more important - the busy-ness or the tackle success (looking at MarkW or Stan here who understand these stats).
% of duals won would be a better statistic to use. From an experience point of view good to see that Taylor is busy, will do him no harm. It is also pleasing to hear positive reviews from Chetlenham fans.
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I believe their are big clubs looking at poaching Akeel Higgins. Lets just hope its not the vile again!
Tidy player from the snippets I've seen.
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I believe their are big clubs looking at poaching Akeel Higgins. Lets just hope its not the vile again!
According to google he was 17 in July, so questions need to be asked again about why he hasn't been tied down to a pro deal.
To some extent, the system screws us with Barry, Souza, Cardosa, Dyer etc but Azaz, Iroegbunam, Cleary, Ferguson and now even Higgins have all been with after the point they could be secured and yet we've not tied them down sufficiently without issue. There may be a good answer, but maybe with dither at key points.
On the subject of Louie Barry, he seems to have completely dropped out of the England Youth set ups and is hardly tearing up league 1. Still very young, but his ceiling would seem to be dropping dramatically. I wonder if he'll be Irish again soon too.
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It's getting to the stage where clubs like ours need to turn thongs on their heads and bin their academies. Let the big boys find and pay for them in their own academies and then when they are overloaded loan them or perhaps buy at reduced prices. Ther will also be plenty who are released and could be picked up for nothing to. The cost of running your own academy only to see the best get cherry picked must be as high as it is dis heartening !
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Can't see how putting thongs on our heads is going to make them want to sign professional contracts. Worth a go I suppose. Off to West Brom market...... hold my beer.
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Can’t force them to sign especially if their agent tells them to hang fire !
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Harry Whitwell started for England Under 18's today, seems he turns 17 in November so it will be interesting to see if we can get him tied down.
According to google he was 17 in July, so questions need to be asked again about why he hasn't been tied down to a pro deal.
To some extent, the system screws us with Barry, Souza, Cardosa, Dyer etc but Azaz, Iroegbunam, Cleary, Ferguson and now even Higgins have all been with after the point they could be secured and yet we've not tied them down sufficiently without issue. There may be a good answer, but maybe with dither at key points.
On the subject of Louie Barry, he seems to have completely dropped out of the England Youth set ups and is hardly tearing up league 1. Still very young, but his ceiling would seem to be dropping dramatically. I wonder if he'll be Irish again soon too.
We seem to have a remarkably bad record for our youth players developing post-18. Not sure what causes it. Happens to both players who stay here and players who leave. They just don't seem to develop any better from 16 onwards. Morgan Rodgers is another who seems to be going down the same road, was once one of the prized assets for England at under 17 level and then quickly dropped out of squads entirely. Obviously developing youth players is always more misses than hits but we are virtually all misses. Given the quantity of youth internationals we've produced you'd think at least some would develop.
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It's getting to the stage where clubs like ours need to turn thongs on their heads and bin their academies. Let the big boys find and pay for them in their own academies and then when they are overloaded loan them or perhaps buy at reduced prices. Ther will also be plenty who are released and could be picked up for nothing to. The cost of running your own academy only to see the best get cherry picked must be as high as it is dis heartening !
Problem is to do what you say we would need a half-decent scouting system.
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Can't see how putting thongs on our heads is going to make them want to sign professional contracts. Worth a go I suppose. Off to West Brom market...... hold my beer.
Any joy?! The old saying “when all else fails, stick a thong on your head to get the youths to sign up†comes to mind.
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Harry Whitwell started for England Under 18's today, seems he turns 17 in November so it will be interesting to see if we can get him tied down.
We seem to have a remarkably bad record for our youth players developing post-18. Not sure what causes it. Happens to both players who stay here and players who leave. They just don't seem to develop any better from 16 onwards. Morgan Rodgers is another who seems to be going down the same road, was once one of the prized assets for England at under 17 level and then quickly dropped out of squads entirely. Obviously developing youth players is always more misses than hits but we are virtually all misses. Given the quantity of youth internationals we've produced you'd think at least some would develop.
This is true, although I think Rogers really suffered with a bad loan last year. He looked very good at Lincoln in league one at 18. 18 months without much senior football since is no good for him.
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Leigh Downing appointed U18 Professional development phase boss.
Albion have appointed Leigh Downing as the club’s Lead U18s Professional Development Phase Coach.
Downing will manage the Baggies U18s side and oversee the development of players aged between 16-18, many of which he has already built a strong bond with during his many committed years at The Hawthorns.
The 2022/23 campaign marks Leigh’s 13th year coaching and the 33-year-old has benefitted from strong family roots in the professional game with uncle, Keith - a former academy and first-team coach at Albion - currently working as joint Assistant Head Coach at Birmingham City.
“I’m delighted to get this role and am looking forward to working with this group of players,†said Downing.
“This is my 13th year coaching at Albion and every two or three years I’ve progressed into the next role at the academy.
“Since I got released here as a scholar, I was brought into the coaching setup and started as the Assistant Foundation Phase Coach, then went onto be Lead Foundation Coach, Assistant Youth Development Phase Coach, Lead YDP Coach and Assistant PDP Coach.
“So I’ve done every coaching role up until Lead U18s which I am now and it’s worked out quite well.
“My best days playing were as a scholar at this football club, so I know how much the lads enjoy it.
“This is the next step for me now to progress further and when I first started coaching, the current group of U18s were very young and in a way, they’ve followed me on the journey. I’ve got good relationships with all of the players and the staff who are now working in that phase as well.
“I want us to be as competitive as we can this season and in the division we play in, we know it’s going to be tough. Ultimately, if we get lads playing for Bealey in the 23s and even training with the first team then that’s the end goal we’re all striving to achieve.â€
Academy Manager Richard Stevens added: “Leigh has great experience as a coach at this football club. He’s worked with different age groups, assisted Peter Gilbert over the last three years and has earned the right to take the lead role.
“He will be really good for the players; he is a meticulous coach, has a good eye for the game and he’ll only benefit the programme for our youngsters. We’re delighted to have him in this role.â€
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dont like the possible nepotism, but do like the possibility of pushing the success of Yuffs through to the U18's and hopefully beyond.
We have often questioned why the kids dont "grow on", maybe this is a move to improve this, which should be applauded, as ever, only time will tell
good luck Mr downing, develop us some saleable assets please, we are going to need them.
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dont like the possible nepotism, but do like the possibility of pushing the success of Yuffs through to the U18's and hopefully beyond.
We have often questioned why the kids dont "grow on", maybe this is a move to improve this, which should be applauded, as ever, only time will tell
good luck Mr downing, develop us some saleable assets please, we are going to need them.
I'm not sure its nepotism? I dont know who his dad is, but uncle works at Blues now according to Wiki and left us in 2015.
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I'm not sure its nepotism? I dont know who his dad is, but uncle works at Blues now according to Wiki and left us in 2015.
He may have meant cronyism, or even favouritism. Either way, this chap seems to have worked his way up, and given the job on merit. Let’s hope he has an idea of how to keep hold of some of our better players.
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He may have meant cronyism, or even favouritism. Either way, this chap seems to have worked his way up, and given the job on merit. Let’s hope he has an idea of how to keep hold of some of our better players.
Fair point Cronyism would have been a better term
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God forbid he might be good at what he does. Not ITK as I've never attended one of his training sessions but not all promotions are of the 'dead man's shoes' variety. Then again he can't be that good as the Vile don't appear to have offered him a pay rise ;D .
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God forbid he might be good at what he does. Not ITK as I've never attended one of his training sessions but not all promotions are of the 'dead man's shoes' variety. Then again he can't be that good as the Vile don't appear to have offered him a pay rise ;D .
He's a very good coach. And, not that it's particularly important for the role, he's also a good bloke.
I've no idea if any offers have been made for him to move (I'd be surprised if there hadn't been tbh) but with Peter Gilbert going had he not got this job I'm pretty sure he would've walked.
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He's a very good coach. And, not that it's particularly important for the role, he's also a good bloke.
I've no idea if any offers have been made for him to move (I'd be surprised if there hadn't been tbh) but with Peter Gilbert going had he not got this job I'm pretty sure he would've walked.
Nice one Blandy, reassuring to read there's still some coaching talent and decent people in the building.
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Winning at seal park 0-2, Faal, Ashworth
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Winning at seal park 0-2, Faal, Ashworth
I was just contemplating whether to have another beer. This snippet of news made my mind up.
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Leading 4-1 now and Villa keeper sent off..!!
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I remember watching Leigh Downing play for the Albion around the same time as Joss Labadie, Luke Daniels and Dwyane Samuels and i think i saw him run out for Tividale after that. Basically our very early academy side. I think Gez Mullholland who now works for Albion TV was in the same sort of era, maybe just after - seems the club have wanted to keep a few of them in the game which is nice to see.
As for the under 21's, get in. A shame to see Cleary though ad I thought he might get a run out tomorrow.
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2-5 to the Mighty Baggies 👍😅
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I remember watching Leigh Downing play for the Albion around the same time as Joss Labadie, Luke Daniels and Dwyane Samuels and i think i saw him run out for Tividale after that. Basically our very early academy side. I think Gez Mullholland who now works for Albion TV was in the same sort of era, maybe just after - seems the club have wanted to keep a few of them in the game which is nice to see.
As for the under 21's, get in. A shame to see Cleary though ad I thought he might get a run out tomorrow.
The legend that was Tamika Mkandawira...
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6-2 to us now
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6-2 to us now
I wonder how many of that vile team were recruited from our Academy?
They obviously chose the wrong ones 😂
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I wonder how many of that vile team were recruited from our Academy?
They obviously chose the wrong ones 😂
I think since they had half of our lads we have beat them nearly every time! ;D
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FT 2-6 COYB!
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I think since they had half of our lads we have beat them nearly every time! ;D
I hope they don’t come calling for another tranche of our young players, on the other hand, they’re not very good at it are they. 😂
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I hope they don’t come calling for another tranche of our young players, on the other hand, they’re not very good at it are they. 😂
;D
Seems like they have done us a favour bar the odd one or 2
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Always good to beat 'that' lot.
COYB and SOTV 8) !
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Another positive write up on Caleb Taylor. Well done and keep it up.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-caleb-cheltenham-loan-25253741
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Good going for the academy right now that we've got 3 of our 11 from the academy, and a further coming off the bench today.
Caleb Taylor arguably will deserve a chance in the team if we can bring him back in January too, these are some good returns. It's an absolute necessity the next manager puts faith in the academy players. Bruce keeping Button over Palmer (not that Palmer is particularly young) and his reluctance to have Gardner-Hickman in central midfield were particularly galling. Suddenly someone who knows them comes in and they win him the game.
If we're to be in this division next season then with no parachute payments the academy bunch will need to play a big part to make our resources competitive.
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If we're to be in this division next season then with no parachute payments the academy bunch will need to play a big part to make our resources competitive.
Agree with this which is why I'd like to see Taylor stay out on loan as well as maybe finding a loan for Ashworth in January.
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Another positive write up on Caleb Taylor. Well done and keep it up.
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-caleb-cheltenham-loan-25253741
It's not all good. Watch his defending for the forth goal Cheltenham conceded on Saturday. God it was bad. Long punt forward, completely misjudged the header like you'd see from an eleven year old.
I watched him a few weeks ago as well when we didn't have a game, looked short of Championship level.
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It's not all good. Watch his defending for the forth goal Cheltenham conceded on Saturday. God it was bad. Long punt forward, completely misjudged the header like you'd see from an eleven year old.
I watched him a few weeks ago as well when we didn't have a game, looked short of Championship level.
We are all human. It was probably the pressure of you watching him that got the best of the young man
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We are all human. It was probably the pressure of you watching him that got the best of the young man
I'm a fierce critic. Kid knows I'm watching him like a hawk. ;)
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I'm a fierce critic. Kid knows I'm watching him like a hawk. ;)
He probably felt your breath beating down the back of his neck :P
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I'm a fierce critic. Kid knows I'm watching him like a hawk. ;)
Can't really blame you what with your reputation in the game, there's a lot at stake ;D ;) .
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Good luck to Mo Faal who has joined @telfordutd on a one-month youth loan. âœï¸
All the best, Mo! 👊
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A tiny bit surprised to see him drop down to the 6th tier given his goal scoring record last season, but hope he scores a few at Bucks head where there is a bit more pressure than your average tier 6 side.
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Jamie Andres signs for Yeovil town on a short term loan.
CLeary starts for u23s
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U23s win 4-0 . Two each for Cleary and Malcolm
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U23s win 4-0 . Two each for Cleary and Malcolm
Do you know if Carlos was there?
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U23s win 4-0 . Two each for Cleary and Malcolm
Cleary sure knows the way to goal. Get him in the 18 tomorrow night.
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Cleary sure knows the way to goal. Get him in the 18 tomorrow night.
He was subbed off after just under an hour I believe so there is just a chance
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Do you know if Carlos was there?
Don’t know sorry but no mention in any report so it’s doubtful
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None of the kids are in the matchday squad tonight. TGH & O'Shea obviously involved.
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How do you get this info?
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I wonder if the U23s and lower will be told to play similar style(s) to the first team. I haven't seen this mentioned lately, but I know it used to be A Thing that all the teams would play similarly so that the when players moved up they were already aware of what was required of them.
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I wonder if the U23s and lower will be told to play similar style(s) to the first team. I haven't seen this mentioned lately, but I know it used to be A Thing that all the teams would play similarly so that the when players moved up they were already aware of what was required of them.
Is an obvious and sensible way to ensure consistency of style across the club. Assuming the first team was not being coached by someone like Steve Bruce.
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/brunt-appointed-academy-development-role
Brunt appointed loans manager, supporting young lads out on loan
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Is an obvious and sensible way to ensure consistency of style across the club. Assuming the first team was not being coached by someone like Steve Bruce.
I used to think it was sensible, and I can still see how it might be helpful for players on the brink of the first team but to be honest we change managers so often I'm not sure how effective it is long term.
For example, if the first team isn't playing with traditional full backs (either with wing backs or a three), is it right to potentially stunt the development of young full backs when in 18 months we could have a manager that does play a four?
I think there has to be a balance between mimicking the first team and doing what we think will be develop young players.
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/brunt-appointed-academy-development-role
Brunt appointed loans manager, supporting young lads out on loan
Interesting and I wish Chris all of the very best. I just Googled ''WBA FC Loans Manager' and scrolled down a list of links and found one which took me to a three page Pdf/job advertisement with a description of responsibilities. The closing date was 15/08/2022.
It clearly states that if a suitable candidate is found the closing date will be brought forward so applicants were encouraged to apply early. Can anyone remember whether we appointed a new loans manager in August?
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I wonder if the U23s and lower will be told to play similar style(s) to the first team. I haven't seen this mentioned lately, but I know it used to be A Thing that all the teams would play similarly so that the when players moved up they were already aware of what was required of them.
Brum mail article tonight doesn't say whether they will play the same way but Beale said that CC asked for dossier on them all
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-academy-beale-corberan-25426535
"Like all the fans and the staff, I've been intrigued as to who the club was going to appoint, who they were going to bring in. I can only talk about the youth side of things, I think it's a real plus point for us," Beale said.
"He's already taken a keen interest in what's going on. Obviously his focus is everything in the first team and changing results and getting the team up the league, but it's always helpful when you have a manager who understands youth football and how it works.
"He has taken an interest in what we're doing, who the players are, he's asked for dossiers and we've shared them with him and he's keen to know about the performance tonight - we'll speak about it. It's nice when the manager cares about the youth.
"There has been lots, with Carlos. I actually played games against him when he was at Leeds and I was at Birmingham. He's been really positive and bright with myself and the first team, I am absolutely in no doubt that he'll get the team back to where it belongs.
"I think he'll be really positive for the academy, the under 21 group and the under 18 group. I have told the boys - if they do well and keep doing well, the manager will give them the opportunity."
Albion aren't short on talent at that level. Taylor Gardner-Hickman and Alex Palmer are both now established first team players and start regularly. Reyes Cleary and Zac Ashworth aren't far behind them, while Josh Griffiths and Caleb Taylor are shining out on loan.
"The boys know, though, that they have to be as hungry and as motivated as they were against Stoke. It was fantastic to come back in and to see how well they played, some really good performances," Beale added.
"They're all good players - now the key is their attitude, their mentality. The way they ran, the way they pressed and worked, it's just about drumming that in. The quality is there, and we'll keep working on that, but their attitude comes from them - keep going and they won't be far off."
It wasn't the nine-point return that Beale had hoped for during his time in charge of the first-team, but he enjoyed the privilege of being asked to take care of duties as Albion's hierarchy plotted the next era and decided on who to turn to.
"I enjoyed the time, it was a real honour. It's a fantastic football club. It would've been great to have got nine points from nine, but not many managers in the Championship get three wins out of three," Beale reflected.
"The reality is that we got three. Nice that we contributed a little bit towards the season, but all the focus is now very much back with the 21s and we wish the first team all the best.
"I think they've made a good choice with the new manager, he's a great guy, his staff are really good and hopefully they can get the performances and results we need and deserve. Hopefully that'll happen."
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"I enjoyed the time, it was a real honour. It's a fantastic football club. It would've been great to have got nine points from nine, but not many managers in the Championship get three wins out of three," Beale reflected.
I expect I’ll be the only one to pick up on this and it doesn’t really matter but why would you talk about getting 9 points out of 9 when you got 3? I could understand it if we got 6/7. It would have been nice if we’d got 4 points Richard.
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"I enjoyed the time, it was a real honour. It's a fantastic football club. It would've been great to have got nine points from nine, but not many managers in the Championship get three wins out of three," Beale reflected.
I expect I’ll be the only one to pick up on this and it doesn’t really matter but why would you talk about getting 9 points out of 9 when you got 3? I could understand it if we got 6/7. It would have been nice if we’d got 4 points Richard.
I think he's just saying he wanted the 3 wins out the 3 really but it's daft as it's what we all wanted!
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we should look to get 3 pts from every game.
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Can't help but think people are reading too much into this. He's a good coach and reputed to be a very decent man who hasn't got much experience at first team level. He took the reigns as tasked and was unable to deliver as much as he would have liked.
Although he'll have seen a lot of first team games and seen them in training before I think being involved with the first team squad on a daily basis will have been a real eye opener for him. Especially given wherever it is many of them are headspace wise following a battering in the Prem', Valball and L ard Ball.
Not just the established squad members either. Imagine being recruited into the shambolic s storm that's been our season so far and wondering what the hell you've let yourself in for. A collection of players with a number of strengths and a lot of weaknesses, some of whom clearly weren't scouted properly, recruited to perform in ever changing systems.
They're paid a lot of money for what they do to soften the blows of life. But they're bound to have been demoralised and arguably not as motivated to excel as the younger groups he's used to working with who have an eye on what their elders have. I'd like to thank him for his efforts and wish him every success while he's at the Albion. We need coaches like Beale.
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F.A Cup 1st round tonight Hereford v Portsmouth . Chance to have a look at Griffiths.
Live on BBC2
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Can't help but think people are reading too much into this. He's a good coach and reputed to be a very decent man who hasn't got much experience at first team level. He took the reigns as tasked and was unable to deliver as much as he would have liked.
Although he'll have seen a lot of first team games and seen them in training before I think being involved with the first team squad on a daily basis will have been a real eye opener for him. Especially given wherever it is many of them are headspace wise following a battering in the Prem', Valball and L ard Ball.
Not just the established squad members either. Imagine being recruited into the shambolic s storm that's been our season so far and wondering what the hell you've let yourself in for. A collection of players with a number of strengths and a lot of weaknesses, some of whom clearly weren't scouted properly, recruited to perform in ever changing systems.
They're paid a lot of money for what they do to soften the blows of life. But they're bound to have been demoralised and arguably not as motivated to excel as the younger groups he's used to working with who have an eye on what their elders have. I'd like to thank him for his efforts and wish him every success while he's at the Albion. We need coaches like Beale.
Good points, well made....was thinking along similar lines.
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Just a quick mention for young griffiths, watched him last night for pompey, apart from through his legs goal, he didnt have much to do, but hes a big fit lad he seems to boss his area, not frightened to shout up and seems to exude confidence, i would like him as number 1 next season
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Button, Kelly and Dike start for the u23s tonight while Zohore makes bench to his disappointment
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Goal down early on
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Dike has limped off after 12 minutes.
….just kidding
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Bloody hell JC, you got me going then ;D
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2-0 down now. Another disaster at the back as an attempted clearance hits a Forest player and goes in. No idea how culpable Button was
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Chapman said Button totally at fault for first goal.
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Forest down to 10 men !
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If we bring Zohore on that will even things up
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Dike scores but they score again, 3-1 to Forest now
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The stats say Forest have only had three shots and they’ve all been goals. 😩
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The stats say Forest have only had three shots and they’ve all been goals. 😩
BUtton at fault for first, beaten by long range effort for the 3rd. No idea on 2nd.
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BUtton at fault for first, beaten by long range effort for the 3rd. No idea on 2nd.
There’s definitely suggestion button needs to take some responsibility for the 2nd.
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The stats say Forest have only had three shots and they’ve all been goals. 😩
No surprise with Button in goal, good argument for him among our worst ever keepers.
Not sure i've seen a professional goalkeeper so lacking in agility and reaction time.
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There’s definitely suggestion button needs to take some responsibility for the 2nd.
Classic Button!
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Dike scores but they score again, 3-1 to Forest now
Penalty which he also won.
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No surprise with Button in goal, good argument for him among our worst ever keepers.
Not sure i've seen a professional goalkeeper so lacking in agility and reaction time.
Every shot on target against him seems to be a goal.
Does he save anything?
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Every shot on target against him seems to be a goal.
Does he save anything?
Paper wrists. Saying that he doesn't get a fingertip to most of them.
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Presume Ajayi is not playing?
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Did we score the penalty?
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Did we score the penalty?
Dike did yep
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Albion dominating the game, but losing at half time 1-3.
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Albion dominating the game, but losing at half time 1-3.
Sounds like Bruce is back ;D
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Zohore on for Dike for the second half. Hopefully a planned change!
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Anyone watching this? When I log into my account says I need an active package
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Zohore on for Dike for the second half. Hopefully a planned change!
How bad does it get? A multi-million pound striker (and no doubt a mutli-millionaire) coming on as a substitute in an under-23 fixture on a wet Monday night in Hednesford.
I’d be embarrassed and ashamed.
I wonder if Zohore is.
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1-4 down.
A Zohore hat-trick on the way. ;D ;D ;D
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1-5. From 6 on target efforts for Forest.
Their finishing must be amazing!
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Presume Ajayi is not playing?
No, no Ajayi.
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It was Defence vs attack in our favour against 10 man Forest according to Joe Chapman at 1-3 and some how it’s now 1-5 :-X
I’d imagine Corberan is there given a few of the first team squad are playing. Button and Kelly won’t be getting near the first team after this..
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Hammered 1-5.
Ashworth conceded a penalty for the fifth. Forest were down to ten men from the 22nd minute.
Not a good night for anyone looking to stake a claim for promotion to the first team.
Dike played 45 minutes, apparently without injury, won what seemed to be a soft penalty and scored (just about, went through the keeper). But he got through it OK.
Zohore played 45 minutes and, perhaps needless to say, didn’t score.
Forest had 6 shots on target and Button was beaten by 5 of them. A 17% save percentage.
One to forget, except for the good news that Dike got some game time.
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How bad does it get? A multi-million pound striker (and no doubt a mutli-millionaire) coming on as a substitute in an under-23 fixture on a wet Monday night in Hednesford.
I’d be embarrassed and ashamed.
I wonder if Zohore is.
I would have gone to this game instead of casting it but the club miss-represented the venue, as it was at our ground.
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I would have gone to this game instead of casting it but the club miss-represented the venue, as it was at our ground.
Ah OK.
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Tweet from @LewisCox_star
FT: Albion u21s 1-5 Forest u21s. 385 at The Hawthorns tonight to see the #wba youngsters humbled. Positive evening on the Dike front, it appears. Otherwise a tough lesson.
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Tweet from @LewisCox_star
FT: Albion u21s 1-5 Forest u21s. 385 at The Hawthorns tonight to see the #wba youngsters humbled. Positive evening on the Dike front, it appears. Otherwise a tough lesson.
We have to remember two of the midfielders are just 16 and they will be inconsistent, though I gather they did ok. Sounds like it was just one of those nights and Dike wasn't really going to put himself about too much.
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1-5. From 6 on target efforts for Forest.
Their finishing must be amazing!
Button was in goal
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Only managed to watch a few snippets of the game. Looked like Forest just sat back and let us have the ball with a view to hitting us on the break for the most part having apparently gone down to ten so early (didn't see the sending off).
Have to say some of the defending was utterly woeful and Dike was fortunate to score the penalty which somehow wriggled under their keeper's armpit. Daryl did not look a happy bunny at the final whistle when shaking hands with the Forest youth players as they left the pitch.
I knew it was at the Hawthorns and I was going to go but had to change plans by late afternoon. From the brief glimpses I caught via the official site I'm thoroughly delighted I didn't make the trip over.
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Have not seen the highlights but 6 shots 5 goals doesn't make good reading Don't think that David Button has any future at the club. Good to see Daryl Dike play but hope he's not rushed back.
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/harry-whitwell-signs-first-professional-contract
Isn't Whitell highly rated by some on here? Signed 3 year deal until 2025 anyway
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/harry-whitwell-signs-first-professional-contract
Isn't Whitell highly rated by some on here? Signed 3 year deal until 2025 anyway
Richard Beale has had positive things to say about him. Just turned 17 so eligible to sign professional terms - imagine we’ve had this one lined up for a while. Hopefully the next cab off the rank, gets a first team appearance this season and a good loan in the summer.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2022/11/12/richard-beale-excited-by-next-crop-of-west-brom-youngsters/
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Whitwell must be fairly highly rated to get a three year deal as soon as he turns 17. Also suggests we have perhaps learnt some lessons.
On another related note, Fenton Heard was highly rated a couple of years back , I think he was another who Villa were rumoured to want at 15. He is still playing in the u18's but scored a hattrick against Villa at the end of October then got three assists against Stoke a couple of weeks later. He is now 18 though and I've not seen anything about him signing a pro deal.
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From what I've been reading online Villa still have an interest in Fenton Heard. As for Whitwell I'm seriously chuffed they haven't got their mitts on him as they were rumoured to be quite keen. Very decent young player already with the potential for a very bright future.
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A real positive is that CC has asked Richard Beale for his opinion on each of the young players under his control.
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From what I've been reading online Villa still have an interest in Fenton Heard. As for Whitwell I'm seriously chuffed they haven't got their mitts on him as they were rumoured to be quite keen. Very decent young player already with the potential for a very bright future.
Can't help thinking that seeing how it's gone for TGH is probably a significant factor in him signing.....let's hope it's something we see more of.
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With Matt Smith's Wales call up, can anyone tell me the last player to have gone through West Brom's youth system to have played in a world cup?
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With Matt Smith's Wales call up, can anyone tell me the last player to have gone through West Brom's youth system to have played in a world cup?
Chris Wood most likely. South Africa 2010
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Tyler Roberts might have had a chance of making this one with Wales were it not for a calf injury.
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https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/west-brom-portsmouth-josh-griffiths-25622763
Just for confirmation, in the above article the Portsmouth manager says Josh Griffiths will be a top keeper but confirms there is a recall clause for us on him in Jan but sounds like it has to be due to injury rather than we just want him back.
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It would be better for Josh to stay at Pompey then going back to Albion and maybe sitting on the Bench. Rather we get someone in on loan or keep faith with Alex Palmer
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we had a player join an Italian U15's tournament of the best the nation has to offer at that age group, Idrissa Dauda being the only player not contracted to an Italian club.
his team won and the 15 year old center back is apparently also eligible for England and Ghana.
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Tulloch been sent back by Rochdale, fans said he was awful. One of the worst they have seen. Oof.
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At 21 I think that was Tulloch's last chance really.
Soccerbase says he only had 2 starts!
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I've never seen much in Tulloch. Seen him about half a dozen times, he never impressed me once. Think he is one we can forget about making the grade with us.
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At 21 I think that was Tulloch's last chance really.
Soccerbase says he only had 2 starts!
The comments on their twitter about him being sent back are not exactly glowing
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Did anyone see any of the Spurs v Portsmouth game? If so how did Griffiths look please.
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Tulloch been sent back by Rochdale, fans said he was awful. One of the worst they have seen. Oof.
Looks too small. Hopefully he rebuilds at league 2 level or national league level.
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Looks too small. Hopefully he rebuilds at league 2 level or national league level.
No point us keeping him here anyway
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Griffith's is here to challenge Palmer and Button CC has stated according to Chapman. He's not going out on loan.
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Midfielder Matt Richards, Fullback Alex Williams and goalkeeper Ronnie Hollingshead have penned their first professional contracts.
Congratulations!!
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/young-albion-trio-pen-pro-deals
Academy prospects Matt Richards, Ronnie Hollingshead and Alex Williams have committed their futures to the Albion after signing professional terms with the club.
The second-year scholars have penned two-and-a-half-year deals to keep them at The Hawthorns until the summer of 2025.
Central midfielder Richards, who hails from Sutton Coldfield, made a positive impression during the first year of his scholarship, fitting seamlessly into Richard Beale’s U21s group and operating in numerous positions.
Matt’s application and determination was rewarded at the end of the 2021/22 campaign after winning the club’s Academy Player of the Year Award, and the youngster continues to make positive strides heading into the next stage of his development.
Like his fellow team-mate, goalkeeper Hollingshead has already enjoyed plenty of exposure in the Baggies’ PL2 side over the last two seasons and has been a regular between the sticks for Beale’s men this term.
A Wales youth international, the Hereford-born keeper has featured for the Dragons up to U18s level and Ronnie has already started working on the next step of his journey by gaining important minutes in senior football during a month’s loan at non-league Hednesford Town earlier in January.
Another Welsh representative is promising full-back Williams, whose energy and contribution in the attacking third have impressed academy staff during his time at the club.
Having already caught the eye early into his time in B71, Alex was handed his debut in the 21s at the age of just 16 and the Warwick-born defender will be keen to strengthen his core skills ahead of making the full transition into becoming a professional.
On the trio agreeing pro terms, Academy Manager Richard Stevens said: “The three lads are exactly how you’d want the Albion academy to look.
“The boys have been here for a considerable amount of time, and I think it’s important for a club like us to show that young players have the opportunity to progress from schoolboy, into the scholarship phase and now the professional ranks.
“When I first saw Alex there was something about him which I really liked. He’s a modern-day full-back, a great one-on-one defender, has a lovely poise and calmness about him, and he can affect the game in the front half of the pitch.
“He’s reserved, a really nice boy and is one who sets examples when he goes about his business. There’s more to come from him and he’s found a nice place on the pitch at the moment, but I don’t want him to stay there too long.
“We want him to push himself harder because there’s so much more to come from Alex and when you look at the modern game in the EFL, he has the beginnings of the qualities required for that stage, but he’s someone who will give it everything to reach those levels.
“Matty Richards is everything we’re trying to build this academy on in terms of how he embraces the environment, drives himself and those around him, sets great standards, maximises what he is and leaves his mark on the game.
“In the Albion family we look at hard work, family, setting good examples and Matty is all of that and not just sometimes, but all of the time. He’s still got a lot to do, like everyone has, but he’s been outstanding during his time with us.
“Ronnie has had excellent potential, he’s played up at higher age groups, is a Welsh international, and that makes it easy for us to see the next stage of his development.
“The loan he’s had this year was in the long term, but not the short term plan for him. But he felt he was ready, we did too, and it gives Ronnie the chance to go and play men’s football which is what it’s all about. He's got a lot of good things ahead of him."
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Castro back on loan out at Gateshead FC
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Castro should have gone to a better league but his ball skills have clearly not impressed potential suitors. He needs to do more in what is a very important stage in his career
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Castro should have gone to a better league but his ball skills have clearly not improved potential suitors. He needs to do more in what is a very important stage in his career
Nowhere near good enough for us sadly. Least it was a cheap deal
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Castro back on loan out at Gateshead FC
A bit of digging suggests he (or Albion) wants (him) to play more than the amount of time he was getting at Notts County. County are top, Gateshead 21st. Given all his boasting when he came in, it really doesn't seem to be working out for him.
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I always look at this thread when it has new posts with great trepidation, as it usually means one of the youth players have defecated on us, sorry I meant defected.
Re Castro his plans for using us a stepping stone are working in reverse, unfortunately for both parties.
At this rate he might be laying stones during the week and stepping out for the dog and duck at weekends very soon.
Joking aside, i hope it still works out for him still.
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Young ‘uns win 2-1 at Leeds ;) :)
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That's a decent result (especially) given Cleary, Malcolm and Ashworth weren't involved. Well done lads 8) .
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Castro has scored a couple of very good goals for Notts County - but still wasn't getting starts.
Suggests he is more of a moments player than a team player, which won't cut it at any decent level.
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Kevin Mfuamba, who's been playing for our under 21's started for England under 17's the other day in a 6-0 win against Germany
Him and Harry Whitwell have both been called up to England this season which is a good return for our central midfielders.
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Shame the youngsters had a game, as a few more may have got a look in tonight.
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Multiple Dingle accounts on twitter including one with 40k followers saying they want Ethan Ingram.
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Multiple Dingle accounts on twitter including one with 40k followers saying they want Ethan Ingram.
QPR also linked but nothing concrete outside of Twitter for either of them.
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QPR also linked but nothing concrete outside of Twitter for either of them.
Indeed. Seems an odd one as he's never impressed me and Wolves are lightyears ahead of us. Very possible he's improved a great deal since i last saw him.
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I try to watch the brief highlights of PL2 games. I'm judging by our attacking moments here but 3 players feature regularly, Ingram, Richards and Cleary. Richards is looking lively and involved as a 10 from what I've seen.
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Indeed. Seems an odd one as he's never impressed me and Wolves are lightyears ahead of us. Very possible he's improved a great deal since i last saw him.
Ingram is your atypical modern fullback. Good going forward but questionable defensively. Personally think there's more good to his game than bad. Nothing about his game that can't be sorted with experience.
For example, I've no idea what Darnell Furlong was like at Ethan's age but I can't imagine his all round game being better at the same stage of their respective development process.
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Ingram is your atypical modern fullback. Good going forward but questionable defensively. Personally think there's more good to his game than bad. Nothing about his game that can't be sorted with experience.
For example, I've no idea what Darnell Furlong was like at Ethan's age but I can't imagine his all round game being better at the same stage of their respective development process.
Wonder if Furlongs improvement in form has moved him up from England's 6th best right back according to that data site?
Going back to Ingram yes he's definitely a modern full back type. I dislike them generally as I always prefer defenders to focus on defending as primary but I'm a grumpy middle aged bum so ignore what I say 😂
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......I'm a grumpy middle aged bum so ignore what I say 😂
Will do you grumpy middle aged bum ;D .
As for Darnell long may his rich form continue.
That data site's probably renamed him Cafu :P .
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Piece from CC today saying he doesn’t think anymore of the youngsters will go out on loan this window. Reading between the lines of same article it means there won’t be many if any incomings
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The U23's are taking on them unwashed, scuffy Herbert's from the Seal Sanctuary on Friday night at the Shrine.
Anyone of you brain boxes know how much it is to get in?
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The U23's are taking on them unwashed, scuffy Herbert's from the Seal Sanctuary on Friday night at the Shrine.
Anyone of you brain boxes know how much it is to get in?
It was £5 at the Buck's Head Stadium last season. Used to be free for HSTHs at the Hawthorns. No idea for Friday.
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It was £5 at the Buck's Head Stadium last season. Used to be free for HSTHs at the Hawthorns. No idea for Friday.
That's very helpful you plank. It's Friday I want to know about. :P
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That's very helpful you plank. It's Friday I want to know about. :P
great film, the Plank, do not dis-respect Planks !
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great film, the Plank, do not dis-respect Planks !
I don't, I just disrespect SmethDan ;D.
Only joking, he knows I love him really. ;)
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I don't, I just disrespect SmethDan ;D.
Only joking, he knows I love him really. ;)
Flattering but I think I could live without you writing me a sonnet if your terrace prose are anything to go by. No offence old fruit ;D .
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Free for HST holders, 5quid in adults, 1 quid juniors
"Tickets will be available for Albion’s PL2 clash with Aston Villa at The Hawthorns.
Season ticket holders can watch the match for free, while the prices stand at £5 for adults, and juniors just £1 juniors for those looking to buy their tickets from the Halfords Lane Stand on the night."
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Looks like Kevin Mfuamba is on the radar of the usual suspects, probably due to his recent showing for England. Lets hope the club are true to their word about retaining our best youth talents......
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Free for HST holders, 5quid in adults, 1 quid juniors
"Tickets will be available for Albion’s PL2 clash with Aston Villa at The Hawthorns.
Season ticket holders can watch the match for free, while the prices stand at £5 for adults, and juniors just £1 juniors for those looking to buy their tickets from the Halfords Lane Stand on the night."
Thanks Gazberg. I knew I could rely on you. :)
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Thanks Gazberg. I knew I could rely on you. :)
;D
Not sure whether that's a good or bad thing but I'll take it mate!
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Looks like Kevin Mfuamba is on the radar of the usual suspects, probably due to his recent showing for England. Lets hope the club are true to their word about retaining our best youth talents......
Is Jamal Jimoh still with us? Hasn’t played for u18’s for a few months
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Obligatory video of Eseosa Sule our reported new signing from Celtic (courtesy of the rumours thread) complete with catchy tune to warm a chilly winter's morn', looks a decent talent to be fair.......
https://youtu.be/7TDwaPP4lFw
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Went up tonight. It was a cold un.
Hopelessly outclassed by a very decent Villa team who look to have three or four with a chance of making it. There wasn't one in our team that stood out at all.
Josh Griffiths gifted them the lead with some poor goalkeeping and Villa won at a canter could and probably should have been three or four up at the break.
No Jamie Andrews or Jovan Malcom. Makes me wonder if they will feature at Bristol City tomorrow.
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Eseosa Sule definitely signed now. Put stuff up on his Instagram today where he is inside the hawthorns holding up an Albion shirt with his transfer broker.
Edit - his agents cleared it up on Twitter. Signed in Jan but only just received international clearance to fully sanction move.
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Listed on the U18s squad on the OS.
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Tulloch has joined Dundalk on loan.
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Tulloch has joined Dundalk on loan.
I dont think I am going out on a limb here but I dont see him ever playing for us on a regular basis.
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I dont think I am going out on a limb here but I dont see him ever playing for us on a regular basis.
Yes he is done. Too Manu injuries loans never worked out he needs releasing so he can find his level
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I dont think I am going out on a limb here but I dont see him ever playing for us on a regular basis.
Yep not good enough for us going forward sadly.
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I dont think I am going out on a limb here but I dont see him ever playing for us on a regular basis.
I think you’re spot on. I couldn’t tell you where Dundalk is let alone what division he has dropped to.
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I think you’re spot on. I couldn’t tell you where Dundalk is let alone what division he has dropped to.
It's in Ireland Liam, and a very strange move indeed.
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I think you’re spot on. I couldn’t tell you where Dundalk is let alone what division he has dropped to.
League of Ireland; Premier Division.
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It's in Ireland Liam, and a very strange move indeed.
Not really. LOI is actually improving its standard and attendances. They signed another Championship player too.
Wish him well
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Remember seeing him play for England U17s at Bescot. Such a promising player sadly blighted by injury. I wish him well with the loan.
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When you look at Bristol City's conveyor belt of players, it really shows how bad ours have been over the years.
We predominantly produce lower league players that are no use to us, as we can't use them or profit from their sale.
I prey Stevens can change things, as even his old team cov have better record than us.
When you look at objectively you have to wonder why the scum tool our youth set up, when they had a good enough one of their own that had produced Grealish, the Ramseys, Archer, and that Carny, who that got £20m for.
I only hope Hopcroft continues his less than average record continues at his new ???? Hole.
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When you look at Bristol City's conveyor belt of players, it really shows how bad ours have been over the years.
We predominantly produce lower league players that are no use to us, as we can't use them or profit from their sale.
I prey Stevens can change things, as even his old team cov have better record than us.
When you look at objectively you have to wonder why the scum tool our youth set up, when they had a good enough one of their own that had produced Grealish, the Ramseys, Archer, and that Carny, who that got £20m for.
I only hope Hopcroft continues his less than average record continues at his new ???? Hole.
I've been saying this for a while, we are/were very good under Hopcroft at developing players through schoolboy level, but our development dropped off a cliff after that. Almost all our talents were basically the same player at 21 as they were breaking through, and never showed development. And that's something thats happened regardless of if players have stayed here or not so its not just a club thing - highly rated talents like Jerome Sinclair, Dhanda, Rogers, Izzy Brown - all basically no improvement.
I did not we tended to have more physically developed players so it may be a case that a lot of our players merely stood out and got results at young ages because of that - lots of our former youth stars who broke through young like Rogers, Thorne, Brown, Iroegbunam, Wilson, Harper, Leko - these were all units at a young age.
I don't think its just that mind you, I also found our old academies over promotion of players odd - it meant we had awful results at under 18 level and under 21 level, where we frequently were bottom or near bottom - no point being overpromoted to a level where you're no longer getting touches of the ball.
The only player we've really bought through as a consistent first team other than Berahino has been Dara O'Shea - who notably largely avoided our academy having signed at 16, then was on loan from 18.
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I don’t know we’ve produced some players that are playing at championship level Tyler Roberts, Sam Field, Marcus Forss, Tim Iroegbunem, Dara are all playing and starting at championship clubs. Nathan Ferguson probably would be playing Premier League football if not for injuries, that’s not a bad record of players coming through the academy. Obviously the next step is trying to produce a few more players who can play in the Premier League but you’ve got to be a bloody good player to play week in week out in that league.
We’ve been extremely poor at managing youth players previously, having the very cream of the academy nicked by Villa, City, Chelsea, Barcelona doesn’t help. Our management of the academy lads when they break through is also very poor Sam Field a shining example, TGH I fear is going the same way.
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...
When you look at objectively you have to wonder why the scum tool our youth set up, when they had a good enough one of their own that had produced Grealish, the Ramseys, Archer, and that Carny, who that got £20m for.
I only hope Hopcroft continues his less than average record continues at his new ???? Hole.
Maybe, the strategy of Vile Park is a little like Chelsea. To hollow out the clubs on its doorstep so there's really no competition for fans.
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I don’t know we’ve produced some players that are playing at championship level Tyler Roberts, Sam Field, Marcus Forss, Tim Iroegbunem, Dara are all playing and starting at championship clubs. Nathan Ferguson probably would be playing Premier League football if not for injuries, that’s not a bad record of players coming through the academy. Obviously the next step is trying to produce a few more players who can play in the Premier League but you’ve got to be a bloody good player to play week in week out in that league.
We’ve been extremely poor at managing youth players previously, having the very cream of the academy nicked by Villa, City, Chelsea, Barcelona doesn’t help. Our management of the academy lads when they break through is also very poor Sam Field a shining example, TGH I fear is going the same way.
5 players who once played at our academy being championship players isn't really a reflection of one of the best academies in the country though, which is the promotion we used to have under Hopcroft though, plenty of middling academies better output.
I mean, I've never seen anyone talk up our opponents from tonight up for their academy, but their output in terms of quality produced is much better than ours for example. Lewis-Potter, Bowen, Dan James, Jacob Greaves, Josh Tymon in the last few years. Before that Tom Cairney, Liam Cooper and our own Conor Townsend.
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Some impressive names have come through the Hull academy but it's worth noting that Tom Cairney came through the academy at Leeds and only joined Hull when he was released at the age of sixteen. As for Jarrod Bowen he came through at Hereford United before joining Hull.
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Mo Faal is back with us after scoring 10 goals out on loan at Fylde
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Mo Faal is back with us after scoring 10 goals out on loan at Fylde
Looks like Mo will be in the squad tomorrow, simply no other reason to call him back. 10 goals in 16 games
sounds like a striker who knows where the back of the net is to me, and before someone says can he do it at this level though? I dow know but we ay got andbody else uz con have we.
Come on Mo. COYB
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Can’t see we’ve recalled him jut to play U23 football . Be no surprise now 1) To see Mo on the bench sometime in the next 3 games and/ or 2) BTA may be out a bit longer than first thought :o
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Looks like Mo will be in the squad tomorrow, simply no other reason to call him back.
Come on Mo. COYB
He got injured the other week , went off after about 26 mins . Possible cause for returning .
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He got injured the other week , went off after about 26 mins . Possible cause for returning .
Don't think so. He played 57 minutes for them Saturday before being subbed off.
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My opinion and listen to it because I'm always right. ....... sometimes ;D
I like Faal. I think he has the X factor. I think he's better than Malcolm, Cleary and Richards from what I've seen.
I like him. I'm cautiously excited.
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My opinion and listen to it because I'm always right. ....... sometimes ;D
I like Faal. I think he has the X factor. I think he's better than Malcolm, Cleary and Richards from what I've seen.
I like him. I'm cautiously excited.
Hope to see Faal in the first team squad and not today's u23s squad.
Not sure who they are playing but they were on the train today on Instagram. I thought they would be on a coach
Edit - away to Newcastle
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Don't think so. He played 57 minutes for them Saturday before being subbed off.
Good , I like him .
Surprised he didn't get a higher loan but then again not many of ours have lately.
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Faal and Malcolm not in u23s squad.
Cleary and Richards starting.
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Good , I like him .
Surprised he didn't get a higher loan but then again not many of ours have lately.
He seems highly rated. We have few options and nothing to lose by trying him.
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Faal seems like a handful at least, not sure we'll see him tomorrow but if we want to get anywhere next season we'll likely need some academy players to come out of nowhere and improve the side.
Reading between the lines also seems Corberan doesn't rate Cleary much at all if he ends up behind Jovan Malcolm and Faal.
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Cleary scores 2 as we win 5-2 up in Newcastle.
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Cleary scores 2 as we win 5-2 up in Newcastle.
Sounds impressive and the right way for Cleary to respond if he's at all put out at Malcolm, Richards and Faal getting in the 1st team picture ahead of him. Probably should be remembered that Cleary is the youngest of that four.
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Tulloch has scored twice in three days for Dundalk. Cleary has scored twice today. suddenly it's raining goals.
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I expect CC's plan tonight is that we are winning by a couple of goals by 70 mins and then can rest Dike and replace him with Faal.
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Pleased we're not based in Holland. The Dutch word Faal means 'Fail'. Don't know what that might do for the lads's confidence.
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Pleased we're not based in Holland. The Dutch word Faal means 'Fail'. Don't know what that might do for the lads's confidence.
Tell me about it. I used to call everyone mush. Not long after I was posted to Germany one of the lads fancied going to a local coffee house of a Sunday evening.
It was the day after the night before and as I was bored I tagged along for something to do. Anyway, I spent the evening getting the waitress's attention by addressing her as mush........ to frequent dirty looks.
Mentioned it the next day to one of the lads who had a better grasp of colloquial German than myself at the time and he explained what the similar sounding 'muschi' means in German slang.
Given what she clearly thought I was calling her I was pleasantly surprised that she didn't slap me to be honest ;D .
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Watched the highlights of the 5-2 win against Newcastle. Higgins who's 17 at the moment looks an interesting attacking midfield prospect. Also a couple of good contributions from Rico Richards as there usually seems to be in the PL2 side......and Cleary definitely has something ! There's some interesting positional work by the Newcastle keeper but Cleary looked too strong for them to handle. I thought he looked pretty good with a left sided role in that 30 minute slot he got in the 1st team. I suspect he'd give defences something to think about.
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Cleary also appears to have unstacked some of the timber he gathered over the summer. He looked very focused from those highlights. I'd be very interested to see what his stats were in comparison to other games earlier this season if anyone has access to them.
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Spoke to a Peterborough fan who was at the game against Cheltenham Yesterday , told me Caleb Taylor had a great game and snuffed Clarke Harris out of the game which is not easy given how physical Clarke Harris is .
Good to hear .
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Ted Cann to remain on loan at Leamington Spa for the remainder of the season. Liked the look of him when I've seen him play. Technically sound and confident young keeper. Shade over 6ft 1 1/2 inches tall apparently for those with an interest in such things.
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Spoke to a Peterborough fan who was at the game against Cheltenham Yesterday , told me Caleb Taylor had a great game and snuffed Clarke Harris out of the game which is not easy given how physical Clarke Harris is .
Good to hear .
this lad needs to be around if not in the first team next season.
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this lad needs to be around if not in the first team next season.
Agreed.
If we don't go up soon he will be featuring a lot more I'd expect.
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If we want to get anywhere almost certainly we need a few of the academy to step up as genuine prospects for the first team, we don't have the funds elsewhere. Taylor is an obvious one, but we could really do with some attacking talent coming through as we're really lacking there.
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Ideally, we need at least 2 youth players breakthrough each season, and sell the best one, whilst we aren't getting parachute payments.
I hope and pray that Stevens can do a lot better than tgthe departed treacherous vile lot.
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Ashworth and Taylor playing week in week out in league one prepping for next season should we fail to get promoted via playoffs.
Think Bartley and Bryan go in summer on free leaves us with: oshea ajayi kipre and Taylor.
Can Ashworth come in and push Townsend or see the club move reach on?
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Ashworth and Taylor playing week in week out in league one prepping for next season should we fail to get promoted via playoffs.
Think Bartley and Bryan go in summer on free leaves us with: oshea ajayi kipre and Taylor.
Can Ashworth come in and push Townsend or see the club move reach on?
Bartley has another year so I believe.
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Bartley has another year so I believe.
Yes he triggered an extension after turning up one week
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Yes he triggered an extension after turning up one week
Jesus wept don't we ever learn? So only Livermore and Bryan on a free?
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Jesus wept don't we ever learn? So only Livermore and Bryan on a free?
Bryan, Livermore, Rogic. Zohore already gone
Edit -Pieters too
Edit 2 - his (BArtley) contract extension was triggered after 8 games or so not 1 just in case my joke wasnt clear
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Not in tonights squad for the u23's, currently 0-0 with Norwich
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Faal scores to make it 1-1.
Forgot he was back.
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Anyone following WBA twitter will know it's been a delight tonight with tweets nearly every 60 seconds from what seems to be every single 1st year sports journalism student at the University of Gloucester ordered to follow the match and commentate on it.
Must be for an assignment.
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Youngsters through in Birmingham senior Cup tonight beating Redditch 7-6 on penalties. Our goalkeeper one B. Foster saving 2 consecutive pens apparently ! :D
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Bradley Foster.
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Chapman opinion piece on Caleb Taylor.
I tried to link it but the mail website so shonky today it won't let me copy or paste.
Chapman went to watch him live last night Sounds promising. Fingers crossed.
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Chapman opinion piece on Caleb Taylor.
I tried to link it but the mail website so shonky today it won't let me copy or paste.
Chapman went to watch him live last night Sounds promising. Fingers crossed.
I saw that piece sounds & looks a promising player. We could have abit of a log jam at CB next season Bartley, Dara, Semi, Kipre, Taylor & Potentially Pieters all vying for 2 spots. I could see Taylor been loaned out to a lower half championship team if they are interested ready for him to come into the team for when Bartley’s contract is up next season.
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I saw that piece sounds & looks a promising player. We could have abit of a log jam at CB next season Bartley, Dara, Semi, Kipre, Taylor & Potentially Pieters all vying for 2 spots. I could see Taylor been loaned out to a lower half championship team if they are interested ready for him to come into the team for when Bartley’s contract is up next season.
No point him going to a L1 team again. We know he's more than comfortable.
I'd have him on loan to a champo team or here.
Bryan and Pieters out of contract end of season so they may move him in to the squad as replacement.
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No point him going to a L1 team again. We know he's more than comfortable.
I'd have him on loan to a champo team or here.
Bryan and Pieters out of contract end of season so they may move him in to the squad as replacement.
I think Corberan may look to move Ajayi on too.
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I think Corberan may look to move Ajayi on too.
Just signed a new 3 year deal and not done well under CC. May be harder to shift.
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Just signed a new 3 year deal and not done well under CC. May be harder to shift.
I do wonder if Ajayi might look to get regular game time as not playing may impact on the chances of him playing for Nigeria.
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I do wonder if Ajayi might look to get regular game time as not playing may impact on the chances of him playing for Nigeria.
Very possible mate but he does have his feet firmly under the table here.
He's 29 I think so may not be too fussed about international career at this stage
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Bartley and Livermore start for the u23's today.
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The lads won 5-1. Cleary hat trick and a Faal double.
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Cleary may well not be Corberan, but it seems somewhat ridiculous to have a guy with what is now 16 goals in 12 matches in the under 21 side not even making the bench, given the awful quality of our current bench.
Corberan has done a great job turning us around but its disappointing he's yet another manager very much prizing experience over everything else - we see when we're literally forced into it with things like Griffiths (who we initially played Button over till his position was untenable) that these are risks worth taking. Not saying Cleary has to be starting every game, but surely a guy in red hot form as a sub option in a side with 10 goals in the last 12 games has to be better than what we're currently relying on. We need to win most our games and we need goals to do that. Albrighton and Reach have a combined 0 goals and assists between them yet we're forced into relying on them every game out wide now. Could add Thomas-Asante to this who hasn't contributed a goal or assist since last year in the league.
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Cleary may well not be Corberan, but it seems somewhat ridiculous to have a guy with what is now 16 goals in 12 matches in the under 21 side not even making the bench, given the awful quality of our current bench.
Corberan has done a great job turning us around but its disappointing he's yet another manager very much prizing experience over everything else - we see when we're literally forced into it with things like Griffiths (who we initially played Button over till his position was untenable) that these are risks worth taking. Not saying Cleary has to be starting every game, but surely a guy in red hot form as a sub option in a side with 10 goals in the last 12 games has to be better than what we're currently relying on. We need to win most our games and we need goals to do that. Albrighton and Reach have a combined 0 goals and assists between them yet we're forced into relying on them every game out wide now. Could add Thomas-Asante to this who hasn't contributed a goal or assist since last year in the league.
Couldnt agree more. What do we have to lose by bringing on Cleary over Reach. One’s career is all but finished, the other just could develop from the experiences even if on a given match day he doesn’t ultimately contribute much.
He’d be on every bench until the end of the season for me, regardless of if had some poor minutes when getting on. The lads has earned a prolonged chance.
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I wouldn't hold your breath guys.
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If Bruce can play Cleary for a couple of games where he didn't let himself down, I don't see why it should be a non starter for him to be at least used from the bench now.
It'll probably be a case of if/when we fall out of the play-off picture then 1 or 2 more of the youngsters will get a chance....but they could give us some much needed spark before that. It's not as though Cleary and Faal are not there physically. Faal is 20 and has had a taste of senior football on loan, Cleary has just turned 18 but he's physically strong.
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Bartley and Livermore start for the u23's today.
Yokuslu took a knock against Millwall........ :-X .
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Yokuslu took a knock against Millwall........ :-X .
CC wouldn't be that daft surely
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Running out of options - that was a bad tackle on Okay
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Time to take a chance on the young Turks, running out of options with little time left. Shut or bust.
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I have no sympathy for the club losing our highly rated prospects to other clubs when they have players like reach infront of them,because there is no way they would do any worse
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Carlos doesn't rate Reyes. And if he still under contract they will sell him for £1million
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Carlos doesn't rate Reyes. And if he still under contract they will sell him for £1million
I agree. Need to give him a proper length deal or sell him before we let him walk on a free
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Carlos doesn't rate Reyes. And if he still under contract they will sell him for £1million
I know it was only Chesterfield but I thought he showed more than enough in that game to warrant another chance.
Held the ball up ok, beat his man a couple of times and got a dangerous shot away.
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Carlos doesn't rate Reyes. And if he still under contract they will sell him for £1million
Have you any evidence of that? I dont think its true for one minute, sorry.
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Perhaps they're trying to get him the sign a contract before fielding him in the first team squad?
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Perhaps they're trying to get him the sign a contract before fielding him in the first team squad?
He did that in the summer. How many more will it take do you think?
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You have to wonder if there are other reasons he’s not being given a chance with how many injuries we have
You would think his goals alone warrant a cameo from the bench
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You have to wonder if there are other reasons he’s not being given a chance with how many injuries we have
You would think his goals alone warrant a cameo from the bench
Someone on here mentioned (around about a week ago) that it's reported internally that CC wants Clearys defensive side/workrate to improve before he will play him.
No idea if true or not.
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That was me mate, i got told by a very good source.
Apparently Corberan likes Cleary but wants to work with him preseason on the defensive side when playing on the left (where he sees his main position)
As of a few weeks ago Malcolm was ahead of him in the pecking order for the left and Faal ahead for centre forward hence him being recalled, no idea if that has changed last few weeks but be hard to ignore Clearys goalscoring record, especially tight games where we dont need to defend as much, Cleary seems as though he can nick a goal.
As for TGH i dont think he is rated as highly elsewhere as he is by our fans, i would have him involved especially with Moloumby out, my prediction would he will end up top league one, steady championship (maybe like Field) still a career most of us can only dream of!
We supposedly had three loans enquiries for TGH in january, one was Forest Green, one was another league one club and an SPL club, Apparently we were considering sending him on loan but no championship teams came in for him.
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Thanks Albion 79 for clarifying that.
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Interesting about Cleary's defensive side and thanks for the info. We are now at the stage though where we need to try all out to win every game. If we are level or behind with 25 mins to go we need some goal threats on our bench.
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Looks like our academy could be the place to be for young players aspiring to achieve first team football afterall......
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Looks like our academy could be the place to be for young players aspiring to achieve first team football afterall......
CC will have to give the kids a chance sooner rather than later but something tells me he won't be here either after the end of next season if we don't go up
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I think your right Gazberg, unless we go up, i wouldnt be shocked if Corberan quits or is poached in the summer.
He left a basketcase like Huddersfield and looks like we are following suit, he has done a good job at Huddersfield and with us, i would imagine he would want a steady club whilst his stock is high.
I know Ron and him spoke about the budget but with the news of our accounts over the last few weeks, it seems we are even worse off that first thought, he will have little money in the summer as any player sales (would be swallowed up) and the wage bill needs to be trimmed anyway.
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CC will have to give the kids a chance sooner rather than later but something tells me he won't be here either after the end of next season if we don't go up
CC will have to give the kids a chance sooner rather than later but something tells me he won't be here either after the end of next season if we don't go up . Give the kids a chance...good luck with that one. They got beat the earlier by Stourbridge 3- 1. When was the last time they produced anybody of any note good enough to play at this level. The recruitment at youth level is mediocre to say the least and hardly befitting of somebody with a category A academy.
Looks like our academy could be the place to be for young players aspiring to achieve first team football afterall......
Thanks Albion 79 for clarifying that.
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Kean Bryan starts for the pl2 side tonight
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Kean Bryan starts for the pl2 side tonight
Lord Lucan's the acting bucket and sponge man for tonight as well apparently.
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Lord Lucan's the acting bucket and sponge man for tonight as well apparently.
😂
Wonder how long he will last
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Not a bad player (of cards) but he tends to go missing.
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Ingram and Andrews both played 51 mins . Cleary , Faal and Malcolm weren’t involved , read into that what you like
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Ingram and Andrews both played 51 mins . Cleary , Faal and Malcolm weren’t involved , read into that what you like
Cleary is injured, he posted on his Instagram last week he's done for the season pretty much. No idea on the others.
How long did Bryan manage?
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Played first half I think
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Ashworth seems to be getting nice reviews from his loan out on Burton which is nice to see.
If as is almost certain we stay down we're desperate for the academy to fill holes in the squad to make us competitive - so if Ashworth can become solid competition for Townsend, along with Taylor who's had excellent reviews and seems ready to step up that goes someway to plugging the need for "defensive" signings outside of a new right back for next season.
If one of the forward players Clearly/Faal could make the step up to first team squad member, that'd be a good haul and set us up well for next season and leave what precious funds we will have for more targeted improvements.
Of course, we've generally been reluctant to rely too much on the academy in favour of hoping ageing frees do the job instead, but we're at the stage of getting forced into it.
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Where are we with Faal and his contract ? It looks to me as though his contract is up at the end of the season ?
Cleary and Malcolm have 1 year left on their deals. Cleary certainly looks to have something and knows where the back of the net is. I'd hope he would be featuring in the 1st team squad next year.
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Sule scored a screamer yesterday for the PL2 team. Not afraid to have a go.
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Anyone have any idea how Fellows has done?!
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Anyone have any idea how Fellows has done?!
In and out the team at Crawley who finished 90th
Doesn’t bode well for him having a future with us
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Anyone have any idea how Fellows has done?!
33 games , played a few different positions.
Wouldn't rule him out just yet.
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In and out the team at Crawley who finished 90th
Doesn’t bode well for him having a future with us
Same division that we recruited 25 year old Thomas-Asante from…
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Same division that we recruited 25 year old Thomas-Asante from…
Being top scorer and a regular for a team vying for promotion is a bit different to not much game time at the team who finished 90th
I’m not saying he won’t make it, I just doubt it will be at championship level
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Victory over Leeds yesterday means we're in a po with forest and could meet the vile scum in the final.
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Same division that we recruited 25 year old Thomas-Asante from…
He’s 24.
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In and out the team at Crawley who finished 90th
Doesn’t bode well for him having a future with us
Fellows is very young, one of two teenagers to have played over 2000 minutes in league 2 this season (in general only 8 teenagers in the football league have played over 2000 minutes this season)
At his age just getting out there and getting regular game time in pro football puts him ahead of most his peers. Doubtful he's ready for us, but shouldn't be written off for not pulling up trees either given his age and the fact it's his first loan.
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Fellows is very young, one of two teenagers to have played over 2000 minutes in league 2 this season (in general only 8 teenagers in the football league have played over 2000 minutes this season)
At his age just getting out there and getting regular game time in pro football puts him ahead of most his peers. Doubtful he's ready for us, but shouldn't be written off for not pulling up trees either given his age and the fact it's his first loan.
Thanks for the research Dan. My first instinct was to agree with Graka, but then I forget he's just 19. If he is still not managing much next season then that's a bit different, but there's time yet.
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Whitwell academy player of the season. Really think this guy has a chance of becoming a regular in the first-team squad next season along with Taylor.
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Really think this guy has a chance of becoming a regular in the first-team squad next season
Really? Is he that good? He's only 17 according to the OS.
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Really? Is he that good? He's only 17 according to the OS.
17 but regular stand out in our 23s team. Might need another year in the 23s but can’t be far away now. We’ll see what happens.
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Whitwell academy player of the season. Really think this guy has a chance of becoming a regular in the first-team squad next season along with Taylor.
On the Summer/Next Season thread it was loosely rumoured (yet not substantiated) that the Vile had bought an unnamed member of our academy for £1M.
When I read the name Whitwell in the opening line of your post I thought you were going to tell us it was Harry Whitwell. I was about to disappear in a cloud of flames and smoke accompanied by a bang.
Chuffed more than you know that you're breaking different news. This lad's got a very good reputation, I really hope we can keep hold of him and see him develop to his full potential with Albion.
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On the Summer/Next Season thread it was loosely rumoured (yet not substantiated) that the Vile had bought an unnamed member of our academy for £1M.
When I read the name Whitwell in the opening line of your post I thought you were going to tell us it was Harry Whitwell. I was about to disappear in a cloud of flames and smoke accompanied by a bang.
Chuffed more than you know that you're breaking different news. This lad's got a very good reputation, I really hope we can keep hold of him and see him develop to his full potential with Albion.
No, don’t think it’s Whitwell. I’ll try and find out who, if anyone at all, it is that’s gone to Villa for 1 million. I don’t referee as many games at the academy anymore but when I’m next there I’ll see if I can find out.
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No, don’t think it’s Whitwell. I’ll try and find out who, if anyone at all, it is that’s gone to Villa for 1 million. I don’t referee as many games at the academy anymore but when I’m next there I’ll see if I can find out.
Whether he still classes as academy I'm not sure but I was wondering about Cleary given that he's only got one year left on his deal - we may not turn down that sort of offer. Would much prefer to see him stay though.
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Whitwell academy player of the season. Really think this guy has a chance of becoming a regular in the first-team squad next season along with Taylor.
Very little chance. What I've seen of Whitwell he has obvious promise but he's not Championship ready yet. Perhaps the season after, but I'd be amazed if he's a regular squad member next season.
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Looks like we are listening to offers for Cleary. Cutbacks are likely too
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Cleary should be given a proper chance next season. He has earnt it. It also only takes a relatively small degree of success as a striker at his age for his price to skyrocket.
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Looks like we are listening to offers for Cleary. Cutbacks are likely too
I think everyone and their dog knows the club's facing cutbacks. Any links to suggest we're listening to offers for an academy player who's rarely featured in first team squads? Or are you speculating/fishing through an ice hole in the hope of a general meltdown on the academy thread?
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I think everyone and their dog knows the club's facing cutbacks. Any links to suggest we're listening to offers for an academy player who's rarely featured in first team squads? Or are you speculating/fishing through an ice hole in the hope of a general meltdown on the academy thread?
judging by post history, probably the latter.
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No one bothered to sign Cleary last summer when he was on a free so i'd be surprised if he was attracting much interest now.
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No one bothered to sign Cleary last summer when he was on a free so i'd be surprised if he was attracting much interest now.
You don't know what was going on behind the scenes do you ? Given his scoring record for the last couple of years, improvements in his fitness and general game, making the England Under 19s squad ...I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's interest.
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You don't know what was going on behind the scenes do you ? Given his scoring record for the last couple of years, improvements in his fitness and general game, making the England Under 19s squad ...I wouldn't be at all surprised if there's interest.
Im pretty sure there would be interest. Surely this is the type of player we must keep, regardless of the financial perils that we face.
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Im pretty sure there would be interest. Surely this is the type of player we must keep, regardless of the financial perils that we face.
I would hope so but it depends on whether he looks likely to sign a new deal on the wages that we offer. If we are in financial peril there has to be a limit to what we will offer a promising young player. Hopefully he will sign but if he holds out for better offers we could look to offload for some money while he's got 1 year left on his deal.
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I would hope so but it depends on whether he looks likely to sign a new deal on the wages that we offer. If we are in financial peril there has to be a limit to what we will offer a promising young player. Hopefully he will sign but if he holds out for better offers we could look to offload for some money while he's got 1 year left on his deal.
Which was always the problem when he (his agent) only agreed to a two year deal. We couldn't really loan him out to get the first team minutes he needs in case of head turning offers if he showed genuine first team potential all be it at a lower while his new contract ran down.
At the same time while it entitled us to more compensation he still hasn't had loan time, much of a shout with the first team beyond training and the odd bench place. We were damned if he signed and damned if he didn't and we've ended up kicking the can down the road.
It's one of the reasons I was so keen for him to be involved more at first team level even if only from the bench. If he'd gained minutes at Championship level and made the most of them we could have increased his potential value while he'd have seen he had a potential pathway here. Big preseason for him and us.
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Cleary himself has been posting some updates lately about his goalscoring record and being left on bench or out the squad so perhaps he's angling for a move.
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Cleary himself has been posting some updates lately about his goalscoring record and being left on bench or out the squad so perhaps he's angling for a move.
Little voice tells me there could be a couple of vacancies coming up in the Stalking and Monitoring Departments which will be officially merged into one over the summer to cut costs. All you need to do is show some initiative and you get paid for this kind of thing Gaz.
Just go on Football Manager or Transfermarkt and apply the relevant age/goal/assist filters then hunt some young targets down via their socials before following them around to see if they're of good character....... what could possibly go wrong ;D ?
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Little voice tells me there could be a couple of vacancies coming up in the Stalking and Monitoring Departments which will be officially merged into one over the summer to cut costs. All you need to do is show some initiative and you get paid for this kind of thing Gaz.
Just go on Football Manager or Transfermarkt and apply the relevant age/goal/assist filters then hunt some young targets down via their socials before following them around to see if they're of good character....... what could possibly go wrong ;D ?
No one stalks or monitors harder than me Dan and i can't make a worse job of it than those who are currently in charge!
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No one stalks or monitors harder than me Dan and i can't make a worse job of it than those who are currently in charge!
Mental images which unfortunately cannot be unseen......... :-X .
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Mental images which unfortunately cannot be unseen......... :-X .
;D
As long as I'm fully clothed it's fine
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/eseosa-sule-signs-first-professional-deal-albion
Sule signs pro terms until 2025.
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;D
As long as I'm fully clothed it's fine
Sadly not, you really shouldn't have had that last (few hundred) pint(s) by the way ;D ;) .
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https://www.wba.co.uk/news/eseosa-sule-signs-first-professional-deal-albion
Sule signs pro terms until 2025.
Good news, have you given him a like on his socials yet or did that injunction of his come through in time ;D ?
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Good news, have you given him a like on his socials yet or did that injunction of his come through in time ;D ?
Been following hin for some while Dan 😂
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Been following hin for some while Dan 😂
Stunned. My mind's eye has seen too many things of late but it never saw foresaw that one...... ;D .
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Stunned. My mind's eye has seen too many things of late but it never saw foresaw that one...... ;D .
I like to keep people guessing! :P
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Another youngster called Cole Deeming has just posted on Instagram holidng up the shirt saying "the jounrey continues" so i'd expect some news on him signing pro terms soon.
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Quevin Castro, Jamie Andrews, Rico Richards and Mo Faal all out of contract end of June so decisions imminent on these. I suspect Castro will leave. As for the other 3 I guess it depends on the recruitment policy this summer.
I'm a regular watcher of the PL2 highlights that we get and it struck me that for a lot of our goals Richards was involved somewhere. After a couple of years disrupted by injuries he seemed to stay fit and contribute well at that level. One question is where would he fit in? Possibly in a wide attacking role or as a Swift No. 10 understudy ?
Faal seemed to do well when out on loan though it was at non league level.
Andrews - with Livermore (and probably Rogic) going will he get a deal and take his place in the pecking order ?
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Quevin Castro, Jamie Andrews, Rico Richards and Mo Faal all out of contract end of June so decisions imminent on these. I suspect Castro will leave. As for the other 3 I guess it depends on the recruitment policy this summer.
I'm a regular watcher of the PL2 highlights that we get and it struck me that for a lot of our goals Richards was involved somewhere. After a couple of years disrupted by injuries he seemed to stay fit and contribute well at that level. One question is where would he fit in? Possibly in a wide attacking role or as a Swift No. 10 understudy ?
Faal seemed to do well when out on loan though it was at non league level.
Andrews - with Livermore (and probably Rogic) going will he get a deal and take his place in the pecking order ?
These three have all seen first team action this season, so on the basis we'll be scaling back and they'll command lower wages than any incoming transfers, I think it makes sense to give them all contracts.
Castro to be released - and get picked up by Real Madrid presumably
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Quevin Castro, Jamie Andrews, Rico Richards and Mo Faal all out of contract end of June so decisions imminent on these. I suspect Castro will leave. As for the other 3 I guess it depends on the recruitment policy this summer.
I'm a regular watcher of the PL2 highlights that we get and it struck me that for a lot of our goals Richards was involved somewhere. After a couple of years disrupted by injuries he seemed to stay fit and contribute well at that level. One question is where would he fit in? Possibly in a wide attacking role or as a Swift No. 10 understudy ?
Faal seemed to do well when out on loan though it was at non league level.
Andrews - with Livermore (and probably Rogic) going will he get a deal and take his place in the pecking order ?
I saw Rico Richards out and about fairly recently (with his mum I think). He’s still looks very young and is quite slight. Think he might still be 12 months away from playing with Men on a regular basis. I’d loan him out until Jan and see how he gets on.
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I saw Rico Richards out and about fairly recently (with his mum I think). He’s still looks very young and is quite slight. Think he might still be 12 months away from playing with Men on a regular basis. I’d loan him out until Jan and see how he gets on.
Yes it was very noticeable when he played in the first team how small he looks. He's 19 now and could do with some beefing up strength wise over the summer.
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Yes it was very noticeable when he played in the first team how small he looks. He's 19 now and could do with some beefing up strength wise over the summer.
If you have ability size means nowt. Look at the Amad lad at Sunderland, he’s outstanding
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It will be interesting what we do for the young lads out of contract.
Had we gone up or our financial situation been better i am confident they would of been given another year at least, However with our finances been so tight, things change.
Those four lads are probably on £4-5k a week in total (not each!) there will be players maybe released from top clubs or who we could loan and that £4-5k a week goes towards their wages, we are now in a position where every penny counts.
Also despite the injury crisis towards the end of the season, none of them had any significant game times, and hardly ever made the bench, the players who we know are leaving none will really affect the young lads, TGH would seem to be above Andrews for example in the Livermore position
I imagine Corberan would ideally like a preseason with them but he has coached them for six months now and would have a good idea whether they will stepup, plus the financial factor comes into play.
The stepup is huge and its worth noting that Andrews, Faal and Castro all played non league football (i know the conference is mainly full time but its still not football league)
I have no idea why we loan players down to that level unless they are 16/17 and need toughening up, these lads should been touted round league one and two last season for a loan move, no coincidence youth players who have done well for us usually have had a loan move somewhere first - Berahino, O'Shea and Palmer.
All were made to move away for their loans too, thats what we have to do, take these lads out their comfort zones, get them playing at a lower standard so they can see how good they have it at Albion, get them playing to win rather than development games which is what the under 21's is.
I have said before i know from a very good source there has been concerns over the years that our young lads are too comfortable, Dowling got many things wrong but he did take on board feedback from highly rated ex pros and national staff who said there was a problem with players kicking on, they are obviously talented but its an attitude and mentality thing, he put pressure on Harrison and Co to sort it out and upset people for doing so and then Villa came calling but it had to be done, hopefully Richard Stevens can improve things.
These lads now have to be playing senior football, i have always been impressed by Andrews but if CC doesnt realistically think they are for him and he wont use them which the end of season suggest then let them go.
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If you have ability size means nowt. Look at the Amad lad at Sunderland, he’s outstanding
Yes I know but Richards is smaller than him. Some strength on the ball helps however tall you are. (not saying Richards is lacking but putting on a few pounds of muscle over the summer might serve him well for whatever his next contract is).
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Yes I know but Richards is smaller than him. Some strength on the ball helps however tall you are. (not saying Richards is lacking but putting on a few pounds of muscle over the summer might serve him well for whatever his next contract is).
I don't think so. Richards is thicker set too. Diallo angles himself differently and is sharper off the mark. The key there is that he uses his slighter frame more effectively.
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I don't think so. Richards is thicker set too. Diallo angles himself differently and is sharper off the mark. The key there is that he uses his slighter frame more effectively.
Well according to the Wikepedia entries Rico towers over Amad - Rico 6ft ( :o) Amad 5ft 8. I'm not convinced, we need a measure up.
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Well according to the Wikepedia entries Rico towers over Amad - Rico 6ft ( :o) Amad 5ft 8. I'm not convinced, we need a measure up.
Let's not turn this into a willy whanging contest eh, you'd be in for a surprise 8) .
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He looked shorter than me up close and I’m 6 ft. It wasn’t really his heigh though that I meant. Richards still looked like a child rather than a young man and I think he’d get pushed around / bullied at this point.
Whilst I also understand if you good enough you are old enough, that’s very simplistic / obvious. The truth is your build / body maturity is likely to affect if you can be good enough.
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I think Richards has had a fair few injuries aswel but from the bits I have seen of him has talent, pace, an eye for a pass
I’d be giving him a year extension and getting him ointment on loan for the first 6 months and saying it’s make or break for you go prove a point
Let’s face CC came into a team devoid of confidence and coaching and needed immediate results, they came and we had an outside chance of the playoffs so maybe why he stuck with the older heads
Perhaps a full pre season under him may help Richards,Malcolm,faal and cleary challenge for a first team place or at least on the bench
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He looked shorter than me up close and I’m 6 ft. It wasn’t really his heigh though that I meant. Richards still looked like a child rather than a young man and I think he’d get pushed around / bullied at this point.
Whilst I also understand if you good enough you are old enough, that’s very simplistic / obvious. The truth is your build / body maturity is likely to affect if you can be good enough.
He's got hamster cheeks and looks younger than he is, it's not a crime (checks mirror ;D ) . Missed a lot of development time through injury but he's been working very hard on his fitness (100% ITK) and will get stronger.
I think he's worthy of a contract extension to see how he transitions from academy level to men's football. I'd much rather see him come on for Swift than offer Rogic a contract extension for example. I'd definitely keep Andrews too.
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I’d be giving him a year extension and getting him ointment on loan for the first 6 months and saying it’s make or break for you go prove a point
"ointment on loan"? I know the club hasn't got much of a pot to p*** in these days, but surely even WBA can afford a few quid for a tube of Deep Heat?
Also... what did you actually mean instead of "ointment"? I can't work it out.
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"ointment on loan"? I know the club hasn't got much of a pot to p*** in these days, but surely even WBA can afford a few quid for a tube of Deep Heat?
Also... what did you actually mean instead of "ointment"? I can't work it out.
Took it to mean 'out on loan'.
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"ointment on loan"? I know the club hasn't got much of a pot to p*** in these days, but surely even WBA can afford a few quid for a tube of Deep Heat?
Also... what did you actually mean instead of "ointment"? I can't work it out.
Sorry I was on a night shift eyes had gone . Yes out on loan. I think him and Malcolm are at an age where they need regular minutes rather than development football with a blunt message saying grab your chance. The likes of cleary and faal are younger I believe but myself cleary looks like he has that knack of being a goal scorer, you can’t coach that
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Sorry I was on a night shift eyes had gone . Yes out on loan. I think him and Malcolm are at an age where they need regular minutes rather than development football with a blunt message saying grab your chance. The likes of cleary and faal are younger I believe but myself cleary looks like he has that knack of being a goal scorer, you can’t coach that
Agree totally about Cleary. A natural goalscorer for sure,
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Was a few clips and interview with Whitwell on the official site the other day. We really do have a future star on our hands here. More than good enough to be in and around the squad next season.
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Would be great if Taylor, whitwell & Cleary can be involved next season. All seem to have big futures, then there’s another decent crop behind them with Mfuamba and Jimoh who still seems to be here after strong links to Man U & Chelsea. Rico Richards was seen as a big player a couple of years ago, not sure how much injury has affected his progress, be interesting what happens this summer with him.
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Was a few clips and interview with Whitwell on the official site the other day. We really do have a future star on our hands here. More than good enough to be in and around the squad next season.
He's very highly thought of and has already been training with the first team squad. If he goes anywhere near to achieving his full potential we've got a very good player on our hands. And at only 17 we already have. Here's hoping he keeps clear of injuries and the Seals.
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Would be great if Taylor, whitwell & Cleary can be involved next season. All seem to have big futures, then there’s another decent crop behind them with Mfuamba and Jimoh who still seems to be here after strong links to Man U & Chelsea. Rico Richards was seen as a big player a couple of years ago, not sure how much injury has affected his progress, be interesting what happens this summer with him.
Jimoh was still playing for the 16s a few months back but was head and shoulders above anything on the pitch.
It’s such a shame that Sousa, Cardozo and Rowe decided to leave, as they were all really elite talents that would also be on the verge of breaking into our first team had they chosen to stay.
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Jimoh was still playing for the 16s a few months back but was head and shoulders above anything on the pitch.
It’s such a shame that Sousa, Cardozo and Rowe decided to leave, as they were all really elite talents that would also be on the verge of breaking into our first team had they chosen to stay.
It's my understanding that Jamal Jimoh has effectively been busted back down to the 16s as he's told Albion he's going. There's no way he wouldn't be playing at least 18s and probably 21s otherwise.
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Was a few clips and interview with Whitwell on the official site the other day. We really do have a future star on our hands here. More than good enough to be in and around the squad next season.
I saw that too, and totally agree with you.
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Why any talented youngster stay at the club, they surely look at players like Cleary who has bossed it at all levels and who is in England age group squads and he doesnt get a kick. Why would they stay? How many of these elite youngsters have actually stayed at the club, they simply dont as there is no chance of playing first team football. It's a shame as we do produce a fair amount of top young talents. Maybe if we ever give them a chance this might change?
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Why any talented youngster stay at the club, they surely look at players like Cleary who has bossed it at all levels and who is in England age group squads and he doesnt get a kick. Why would they stay? How many of these elite youngsters have actually stayed at the club, they simply dont as there is no chance of playing first team football. It's a shame as we do produce a fair amount of top young talents. Maybe if we ever give them a chance this might change?
In Cleary's case he should have been on the bench over the last few months I agree but as for starting games I don't think he's ready for it or done enough in the odd few games he has started . He 100% needs to go out on loan at least until Xmas and probably a few others with him .
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How much would we save if they closed the academy?? I'm sure its been put forward as a cost cutting exercise.
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How much would we save if they closed the academy?? I'm sure its been put forward as a cost cutting exercise.
I believe costs were around £1million p/a. That was a while ago though so probably more nowadays.
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I believe costs were around £1million p/a. That was a while ago though so probably more nowadays.
I thought it was £3 million, but the academy would be a significant factor in the value of the football club, so I doubt if it would be closed.
In any case, I believe the cost is mainly offset by income from sales of academy players.
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Assuming it costs £1m per year to run then we must have made a profit since it started. We've sold Berahino, Rogers, Roberts, Roofe, Harper, Leko and Field off the top of my head. With potential sales of O'shea, Palmer and Griffiths in the future then I'd say it's well worth keeping it going.
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Why any talented youngster stay at the club, they surely look at players like Cleary who has bossed it at all levels and who is in England age group squads and he doesnt get a kick. Why would they stay? How many of these elite youngsters have actually stayed at the club, they simply dont as there is no chance of playing first team football. It's a shame as we do produce a fair amount of top young talents. Maybe if we ever give them a chance this might change?
On the other hand, a number have left for apparently greener pastures and haven't broken through wherever they've ended up. I mean, I actually agree with you, the younger players need to see that there's a way to "make it" by staying with us, but that's not all it's about.
Clubs like Chelsea have a first team squad of more than 30 players. They have 20+ players out on loan, a development squad of nearly 30 players, and more than 20 U18s. What's your chance of breaking through there? Less, I'd say than at Albion. Of course, Chelsea can afford to pay even those who will never make it into their first team far more than Albion can. So if you can't break through here and can't break through there, where are you going to go? Even if you can break though here, you might still see yourself being better off taking the Chelsea money.
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On the other hand, a number have left for apparently greener pastures and haven't broken through wherever they've ended up. I mean, I actually agree with you, the younger players need to see that there's a way to "make it" by staying with us, but that's not all it's about.
Clubs like Chelsea have a first team squad of more than 30 players. They have 20+ players out on loan, a development squad of nearly 30 players, and more than 20 U18s. What's your chance of breaking through there? Less, I'd say than at Albion. Of course, Chelsea can afford to pay even those who will never make it into their first team far more than Albion can. So if you can't break through here and can't break through there, where are you going to go? Even if you can break though here, you might still see yourself being better off taking the Chelsea money.
The thing Chelsea can offer is short term money and if you don't make it there, most likely a professional club will still pick you up. We offer neither the money, or those kind of prospects. Only a small amount who fail to graduate through our academy will find a pro club.
One of our issues is that we're just generally very poor at developing players through the academy. For whatever reason it seems we have an awful lot of players who just never seem to improve. People like Leko, Harper, Edwards, Field all had talent here when they first broke through.....were any of them better in any way when they got older? All quite odd.
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Assuming it costs £1m per year to run then we must have made a profit since it started. We've sold Berahino, Rogers, Roberts, Roofe, Harper, Leko and Field off the top of my head. With potential sales of O'shea, Palmer and Griffiths in the future then I'd say it's well worth keeping it going.
Plus George Thorne who followed Dan Ashworth from Cambridge but would still class as an academy product - think it was £3m - £4m fee when he went to Derby.
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Any youngster would be mad not to go to a Chelsea and take £20k plus on a three year deal at 17. If they have the talent and the right attitude it wont negatively affect their long term career. Feel like the key for a lot of them career wise is not signing a second contract down the line if they are nowhere near the first team.
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Any youngster would be mad not to go to a Chelsea and take £20k plus on a three year deal at 17. If they have the talent and the right attitude it wont negatively affect their long term career. Feel like the key for a lot of them career wise is not signing a second contract down the line if they are nowhere near the first team.
While i see your view there's also the development side of things , its easier to develop at a smaller club than these huge academy set up's like Chelsea or Man City . Lot of players getting lost in their systems right now.
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While i see your view there's also the development side of things , its easier to develop at a smaller club than these huge academy set up's like Chelsea or Man City . Lot of players getting lost in their systems right now.
I don’t know how much the development is really affected though. Loans do wonders for a lot of players. High chances if you stay here you spend at least a season somewhere else. The further to fall option idea does seem to have some merit too for those that aren’t going to make it. Plenty from our own academy won’t make it.
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I don’t know how much the development is really affected though. Loans do wonders for a lot of players. High chances if you stay here you spend at least a season somewhere else. The further to fall option idea does seem to have some merit too for those that aren’t going to make it. Plenty from our own academy won’t make it.
No they won't but I'm a firm believer you lessen your chances at the bigger clubs unless you are a top , top talent .
Lower clubs don't seem to loan players so much now most likely due to money which is sad when you think about it .
From our point of view a few years back Andrews , Castro , Faal would most likely have got attention from Div 1 or 2 instead of non league or lower.
The small window to make it as a pro in the UK seems to get smaller and smaller.
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No they won't but I'm a firm believer you lessen your chances at the bigger clubs unless you are a top , top talent .
Lower clubs don't seem to loan players so much now most likely due to money which is sad when you think about it .
From our point of view a few years back Andrews , Castro , Faal would most likely have got attention from Div 1 or 2 instead of non league or lower.
The small window to make it as a pro in the UK seems to get smaller and smaller.
Castro went to league 1 and seemingly had a nightmare. Faal had a poor non league loan before a much better one. Chances are the just aren’t good enough.
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No they won't but I'm a firm believer you lessen your chances at the bigger clubs unless you are a top , top talent .
Lower clubs don't seem to loan players so much now most likely due to money which is sad when you think about it .
From our point of view a few years back Andrews , Castro , Faal would most likely have got attention from Div 1 or 2 instead of non league or lower.
The small window to make it as a pro in the UK seems to get smaller and smaller.
You're saying even more skint non league clubs can afford our players, but lower league clubs can't?
Personally, I'd be very surprised if we ask for a contribution to their wages.
Fact is our youngsters just aren't that good.
Hopefully, the new ones under Stevens will be better and more loyal.
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You're saying even more skint non league clubs can afford our players, but lower league clubs can't?
Personally, I'd be very surprised if we ask for a contribution to their wages.
Fact is our youngsters just aren't that good.
Hopefully, the new ones under Stevens will be better and more loyal.
It seems that way or there is some other factor , having watched plenty of the U23's the last two seasons I'm stunned nobody in the league has taken Andrews or Cleary for a spell as two good examples.
I don't know about the rest not being good enough but this is a fairly decent side for a club our size , to win the Premier Cup and finish in the Play Offs isn't to be sniffed especially when the first team bench had to take a few regulars from Xmas onwards.
I'll also add there's a number of non league clubs with decent money being put into them now while some league clubs are struggling to pay the players they have ....could be a factor.
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It seems that way or there is some other factor , having watched plenty of the U23's the last two seasons I'm stunned nobody in the league has taken Andrews or Cleary for a spell as two good examples.
I don't know about the rest not being good enough but this is a fairly decent side for a club our size , to win the Premier Cup and finish in the Play Offs isn't to be sniffed especially when the first team bench had to take a few regulars from Xmas onwards.
I'll also add there's a number of non league clubs with decent money being put into them now while some league clubs are struggling to pay the players they have ....could be a factor.
Or maybe, like for years, we have overestimated the quality of our youth players.
I have written this on here for many years, youth England caps mean nothing.
Compared to Hull and Bristol City, our output has been terrible. I too have followed the youth players for years and have gone to as many u23 games I can at home.
So many false dawns with Morton, Tulloch and on and on.
I can see the point of view of those who want to get rid of the academy and its £2m cost (that figure was what a read a while ago so may be higher now), and do a Brentford.
However, I am hoping under Stevens we can improve the quality and equally importantly foster some loyalty with the platers and their families that influence them.
Fans were unhappy when hopcroft and Co did a legger to the scum, but I didn't care and hoped we'd get someone better. I never bought that bull about him being wanted by Man U blah blah, blah as in his time with us I saw the only truly premier player to come through as Berahino. That isn't counting players that went on to well elsewhere like Wood.
We were better at producing players before unparalleled levels of money came into our club in 2002, with Ugo and Palmer being prime examples who played at the top level and England for years.
Dowling thought a change of player entrances was the answer to improve the output, which I presumed was to stop the "I've made it attitude" he saw in some of them, which I do think is a problem with some of our youth players.
An example of this is that I always see our youth players I the brum city centre wearing their tracksuits, and I never see any other clubs youth doing that. This may mean nothing or it may mean that they are using their status to attract the opposite sex, when they should be concentrating on making it rather than thinking they've made it.
We have thrown millions after millions getting cat A standard, yet it is scummier neighbours who have produced £100m players.
I just hope Stevens crop will filter through and will be of a much better quality (like Maddison and Wilson at Cov) in terms of skill and loyalty.
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Thats a good post BalisPen but I can't agree with the part about better players before 2002 , crikey thats a stretch .
I can't recall many that stayed in the league let alone gone on to better things .
For what its worth I never rated Tulloch or Morton and I think hoping players show loyalty under Steven's might be another stretch.
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Thats a good post BalisPen but I can't agree with the part about better players before 2002 , crikey thats a stretch .
I can't recall many that stayed in the league let alone gone on to better things .
For what its worth I never rated Tulloch or Morton and I think hoping players show loyalty under Steven's might be another stretch.
We produced Palmer, Ugo and Burrows just from what I quickly can remember. They became full England internationals.
Before them we produced Bomber, Robbo, Statham amongst many others.
Our youth teams produced much better in those eras without Premier league money, which should, in theory have made us much better and since then we had only one who sat on an England bench.
It doesn't matter whether you rated Morton nor Tulloch, the fact is the real decision makers paid money to poach Morton.
Those like Hopcroft clearly didn't have the brilliant eye at spotting youth talent which their unjustified reputations suggested.
I can only hope that their run of unearthing lower league players continues at their new dump, which was already producing better than these snake oil salesman ever did it our place.
Maddison and Wilson showed loyalty to Stevens at Cov. Maybe he can do, what the departed couldn't, and engender something like that with us. Again, I am hoping and praying for this rather than expecting it.
The fact is the price of poaching players is too small, and in time, maybe the mooted football regulator can do something to stop the likes of Chelsea hoovering up the best and then loaning out 30 to 40 of them at a time. Again, I doubt this will happen.
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There was a huge gap between Burrows / Ugo and the first real crop in Field , Harper , Leko and the likes . We went years without producing very much at all , in fact I can remember Trewick and Richard O'Kelly having to play to make numbers up in the late 90's and they would both have been late 40's I'd imagine . So just for the above alone the set up has improved and we also have one in O'Shea as our captain and the keeper behind him , you can't totally write Hopcroft and co off when we produced little before .
I'm afraid the games gone in terms of the 70's / 80's recruitment which I agree is totally wrong and I despise it being allowed.
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I'm stunned nobody in the league has taken Andrews or Cleary for a spell as two good examples.
Andrews went on loan to Yeovil, then played for us in the cup, so wouldn't be surprised if he fell foul of the rule where you can't play for three clubs in one season (I know Yeovil are non-league, but believe they count as they are still full-time professionals).
As far as the late '90's / early 00's for academy players, we produced the Chambers twins, Adam Oliver, Brian Quailey, and Chris Adamson. The Chambers were probably the best of that bunch, Oliver got badly injured and had to finish early, Quailey and Adamson were both absolutely shocking. I can't remember any more, unless someone can correct me?
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There was a huge gap between Burrows / Ugo and the first real crop in Field , Harper , Leko and the likes . We went years without producing very much at all , in fact I can remember Trewick and Richard O'Kelly having to play to make numbers up in the late 90's and they would both have been late 40's I'd imagine . So just for the above alone the set up has improved and we also have one in O'Shea as our captain and the keeper behind him , you can't totally write Hopcroft and co off when we produced little before .
I'm afraid the games gone in terms of the 70's / 80's recruitment which I agree is totally wrong and I despise it being allowed.
There wasn't a huge gap at all and we still haven't produced that sort of player.
We produce the chambers brothers quality of player, you missed them from your gap, between Ugo and Co to Field etc etc, but the fact is there have been so few that even made a telling contribution for us proves my point that hopcroft and Co were not very good for us, despite all the hype about us always having lots and lots of England youth players.
They had more money, better facilities than there predecessors combined.
I love DoS, and I was the first to put him forward as captain on his thread on here, whilst others disagreed. But, if him (unproven in the Premier league) and Berahono is enough for you to think Hopcroft and Co were OK then that's your opinion.
Ii disagree , imo they weren't good, and even the poached players like Rogers, who brought in good money for us have not excelled, and I hope Stevens and Co have a better eye and can judge a player's character better than their predecessors.
I'm not saying it's easy to produce top quality youth players, just that our record of doing it is embarrassingly bad, given our resources of recent years.
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There wasn't a huge gap at all and we still haven't produced that sort of player.
We produce the chambers brothers quality of player, you missed them from your gap, between Ugo and Co to Field etc etc, but the fact is there have been so few that even made a telling contribution for us proves my point that hopcroft and Co were not very good for us, despite all the hype about us always having lots and lots of England youth players.
They had more money, better facilities than there predecessors combined.
I love DoS, and I was the first to put him forward as captain on his thread on here, whilst others disagreed. But, if him (unproven in the Premier league) and Berahono is enough for you to think Hopcroft and Co were OK then that's your opinion.
Ii disagree , imo they weren't good, and even the poached players like Rogers, who brought in good money for us have not excelled, and I hope Stevens and Co have a better eye and can judge a player's character better than their predecessors.
I'm not saying it's easy to produce top quality youth players, just that our record of doing it is embarrassingly bad, given our resources of recent years.
Burrows / Ugo were late 80's - Early 90's , the next real players of note the Chambers were 99 / 2000 . Huge gap.
Then its another jump to Hopcroft's era , I'm not saying it was perfect but at least we actually got players coming through and having careers elsewhere if not here after years of them drifting out the game . Whichever way you look at thats a clear improvement from the 10 year gap of little or nothing .
All about opinions of course but the evidence is there in a number of players here and elsewhere in the league from our academy . Stunning ? , no . Improved ? Yes in my humble.
Rodgers BTW is exactly the sort of player I was talking about going to these huge clubs and struggling to get anywhere near the first team .
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Burrows / Ugo were late 80's - Early 90's , the next real players of note the Chambers were 99 / 2000 . Huge gap.
Then its another jump to Hopcroft's era , I'm not saying it was perfect but at least we actually got players coming through and having careers elsewhere if not here after years of them drifting out the game . Whichever way you look at thats a clear improvement from the 10 year gap of little or nothing .
All about opinions of course but the evidence is there in a number of players here and elsewhere in the league from our academy . Stunning ? , no . Improved ? Yes in my humble.
Rodgers BTW is exactly the sort of player I was talking about going to these huge clubs and struggling to get anywhere near the first team .
From what I recall, we produced players like Burgess, coldicott, Foster, Darton, Oliver and Maresca (If he hasn't played first team football elsewhere I think it's fair to claim him as youth player) that I think came from the youth team during that period you refer to as a "massive gap".
So I don't think there was a massive gap, as we were still basically producing the same lower league players like we have done with the likes of Thorne, Daniels, Edwards etc, etc more recently. There has always been a steady flow of players from our academy fit for lower league purposes and not the right standard for us at the time.
Our eye for a top player is so bad, that it is very, very rare that we release one who then goes to the Premier league afterwards for a sustained period, Forss being another recent one from the Hopcroft period.
It is has nothing to do with going to a big club and getting lost there. Other players have gone from the youth teams of QPR for example and gone to Liverpool and made it into the first team before being sold for £50m.
The determined, talented ones do make it to the top wherever they are or go to, we just aren't good at finding them. The likes of Rice get released from Chelsea and are now worth £100m plus.
The club knew there was a problem and Dowling made the change he did to help try and fix it. That indicated to me that there were too many in youth teams who thought they had made it, before they had actually done f all and that kind failing culture has to be down to the likes of Hopcroft and Co, who have chosen these players from a very young age and during all their years of coaching them haven't picked up on their character traits.
Whatever these traits are prevent them from being top players and have instead they have been raved about for winning this irrelevant youth tournament and then that one, to point that these youth players must think they have made it and start believing all the hype surrounding them.
I recently heard that Wenger said the most important years for youth players were 18 to 20, as they are on pro contracts earning way above average money for their age and can go out clubbing in their expensive cars, and it is then you find out who misses training and who stays after training to practice.
Sadly, it looks like even Walsall are going to have produced
a full England international more recent than our last one.
Fingers crossed Stevens has a few tricks up his sleeve too keep them grounded and determined.
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Burgess was 90's , Maresca went straight into the first team so we had nothing to do with producing him at all . The rest listed is a very minor percentage and two dropped out the league scene all together .
I think you need to accept the whole landscape changed when the money came flooding in , the chances of finding a top , top talent for a club like us is highly unlikely . Even if we found one the bigger clubs with their huge funds and number of scouts would most likely whisk them away no matter what a romantic tale of Coventry in the past would offer .
I believe we have got to a point of establishing lower league players ( I don't know when Hopcrofts last recruitment year will run out ) but now it's about either getting more in the first team or selling on for bigger figures which we did neither for 20 years bar the odd few .
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Burgess was 90's , Maresca went straight into the first team so we had nothing to do with producing him at all . The rest listed is a very minor percentage and two dropped out the league scene all together .
I think you need to accept the whole landscape changed when the money came flooding in , the chances of finding a top , top talent for a club like us is highly unlikely . Even if we found one the bigger clubs with their huge funds and number of scouts would most likely whisk them away no matter what a romantic tale of Coventry in the past would offer .
I believe we have got to a point of establishing lower league players ( I don't know when Hopcrofts last recruitment year will run out ) but now it's about either getting more in the first team or selling on for bigger figures which we did neither for 20 years bar the odd few .
I know Burgess was the 90's, it was you who said that there was a gap then where no one came through, so it is you who is now accepting there was no such gap, which is what I said.
If you believe other clubs around us can spot quality youth players is a romantic past era, then what about Bellingham, Greasy and Rico Hernry, surely they still get valentine's cards (except the slippery one of course).
Just because we cannot find and develop them has got nothing to do with premier league money changing, as 2 out the 3 were more skint than us.
And your argument completely fails, when you look at the Hull and Bristol City academies, because the crop coming through at Bristol don't exist according to your logic because it all changed when more money came in with the Premier league.
We do get some players poached from us, but our youth academy status means we also attract the players from below us clubs, but we are again just not good enough to find the right ones, as in the case of Morton (I think he impressed when playing against us and that was enough to persist with him for an age).
If your logic was correct every club would have done a Brentford because the top six get everyone since the money flooded in.
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I know Burgess was the 90's, it was you who said that there was a gap then where no one came through, so it is you who is now accepting there was no such gap, which is what I said.
If you believe other clubs around us can spot quality youth players is a romantic past era, then what about Bellingham, Greasy and Rico Hernry, surely they still get valentine's cards (except the slippery one of course).
Just because we cannot find and develop them has got nothing to do with premier league money changing, as 2 out the 3 were more skint than us.
And your argument completely fails, when you look at the Hull and Bristol City academies, because the crop coming through at Bristol don't exist according to your logic because it all changed when more money came in with the Premier league.
We do get some players poached from us, but our youth academy status means we also attract the players from below us clubs, but we are again just not good enough to find the right ones, as in the case of Morton (I think he impressed when playing against us and that was enough to persist with him for an age).
If your logic was correct every club would have done a Brentford because the top six get everyone since the money flooded in.
Yeah I forgot Burgess in fairness , point being there was a huge gap with only a couple who came through in something like 15 years which when you consider the number of players we would have had or seen under the old systems from years gone by is a poor return . Putting it simply the late 70's / 80's method of finding players doesn't seem to work anymore .So no I won't be accepting there wasn't a gap in producing players for the first team or elsewhere.
I didn't say it's impossible but finding and more to the point keeping top , top talent is very hard for a club like us especially the situation we find ourselves in right now . The brutal truth is it's unlikely , I guess we'll see if there's any diamonds from the newer Academy staff when Harrison's / Hopcroft's era runs out which can't be far away.
I think you might be getting a bit carried away over Hull and Bristol City youngsters in a manner you remarked Albion fans have done over our own crop earlier in this thread . We'll see on that.
We can continue to go back and forth over the Youth topic all week , it appears you have an issue with Harrison and Hopcroft just as much as I won't credit Luke Dowling with anything positive during his tenure at this club . All about opinions and that's what this forum is about in the right way , we'll have to agree to disagree on certain things and hope for the best with this club of ours .
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Don’t think Hopcroft and Mark Naylor are as good as they think they are. Constantly praising themselves on Twitter, cringeworthy. I’ve never really understood the hype with Harrison either, the biggest talents out of the west midlands recently have been through Villa & Blues. Further afield, Leicester, Coventry and forest have all produced decent players. I’d say our Academy has been hugely disappointing under Harrison and hopefully we can bring players through under Stevens.
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There is definitely merit in the argument that the old guard of academy staff like Hopcroft and Harrison failed to convert enough players from promising 16 year olds to top level 19 or 20 year olds. It might even be fair to argue Dan Ashworth's influence at the FA and our reputation inflated the number of kids who got picked for England age groups over the last decade.
There were however a ton of players who have had very sound careers since we went from school of excellence to full academy.
Saido Berahino managed 14 goals in a Premier league season, his failure to kick on after that can't be placed at the academy's door, he was a fully fledged pro by then.
Kemar Roofe played in a Europa League final and missed out on a Puskas award nomination by 1 week.
Tyler Roberts has played premier league football over a reasonable period and in a world cup alongside another WBA academy graduate in Matt Smith, while Chris Wood has had a great top level career after a (shorter) spell in the academy.
The academy produced Jerome Sinclair who went on to be Liverpool's youngest ever player, one of a host of kids who have been poached by top academies and therefore who's failure to kick on is not down to the likes of Harrison and Hopcroft (Louie Barry, Matt Smith, Yan Dhanda, Morgan Rogers being obvious examples). Kids like Tim Iroegbunam, Lino Sousa and Finn Azaz might yet kick on following their poaching by bigger academies.
Injury has robbed the likes of I Brown, G Thorne, N Ferguson amongst others despite their serious potential, again not on the academy staff.
Then you have the players like Field, Sawyers, Allsop, Forss, and Adil Nabi who have forged careers either as decent championship players, or in Nabi's case abroad in the Greek top flight. Throw in O'Shea, Palmer and potentially Griffiths, TGH, Taylor and Cleary, it isn't bad going, even if the conversion rate of top England age grade talents hasn't quite been good enough.
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Yeah I forgot Burgess in fairness , point being there was a huge gap with only a couple who came through in something like 15 years which when you consider the number of players we would have had or seen under the old systems from years gone by is a poor return . Putting it simply the late 70's / 80's method of finding players doesn't seem to work anymore .So no I won't be accepting there wasn't a gap in producing players for the first team or elsewhere.
I didn't say it's impossible but finding and more to the point keeping top , top talent is very hard for a club like us especially the situation we find ourselves in right now . The brutal truth is it's unlikely , I guess we'll see if there's any diamonds from the newer Academy staff when Harrison's / Hopcroft's era runs out which can't be far away.
I think you might be getting a bit carried away over Hull and Bristol City youngsters in a manner you remarked Albion fans have done over our own crop earlier in this thread . We'll see on that.
We can continue to go back and forth over the Youth topic all week , it appears you have an issue with Harrison and Hopcroft just as much as I won't credit Luke Dowling with anything positive during his tenure at this club . All about opinions and that's what this forum is about in the right way , we'll have to agree to disagree on certain things and hope for the best with this club of ours .
As I stated, I think with the amount of money we've had since 2002, our academy hasn't produced quality Premier league players and I don't believe it's harder now than ever, as our neighbours don't have a problem producing them.
Regarding Hull, I wasn't referring to a crop of players now (that was Bristol City's current crop), but players like Bowen who was only from Hereford, but Hull got him.
So Hull scouted a player on "our" patch and took them up north and both of them have produced many more Premier league players than we have produced. As such I don't think it is any harder now, especially with the resources we had.
We agree to disagree, about Hopcroft and Co and therefore, Dexy, I'll do a midnight runner from this topic knowing that we all hope that Stevens can bring through a conveyor belt of superstars.
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Don’t think Hopcroft and Mark Naylor are as good as they think they are. Constantly praising themselves on Twitter, cringeworthy. I’ve never really understood the hype with Harrison either, the biggest talents out of the west midlands recently have been through Villa & Blues. Further afield, Leicester, Coventry and forest have all produced decent players. I’d say our Academy has been hugely disappointing under Harrison and hopefully we can bring players through under Stevens.
Jacob Ramsey.
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List of Players from our academy or made their 1st team debut for us since 1989/90
Since 1989/90
If any have been missed then please add below.
Brian Talbot- Les Palmer, Ugo Ehiogu, Darren Rodgers, Neil Cartwright
Bobby Gould- Stewart Bowen, Roy Hunter, David Prichard
Ossie Ardlies- Scott Darton, Marc Sinfield, James McCue
Keith Burkinshaw- NONE
Alan Buckley- NONE
Ray Harford- Dean Bennett, Michael Rodosthenous, Chris Adamson
Denis Smith- Adam Oliver, Justin Richards
Brian Little- James Chambers
Gary Megson- Adam Chambers, Lloyd Dyer
Bryan Robson- Stuart Nicholson, Jared Hodgkiss, Rob Davies
Tony Mowbray- David Worrall, Chris Wood,
Roberto DI Matteo- George Thorne, Sam Mantom, James Hurst
Roy Hodgson- None
Steve Clarke- Isaiah Brown, Saido Berahino, Cameron Gayle, Luke Daniels
Pepe Mel- Liam O'Neil
Alan Irvine- None
Tony Pulis- Tyler Roberts, Jonathan Leko, Sam Field, Rakeem Harper, Kane Wilson
Alan Pardew- None
Darren Moore- Kyle Edwards, Kyle Howkins, Morgan Rodgers, Rayhaan Tulloch,
Slaven Billic- Nathan Ferguson, Jack Fitzwater, Saul Shotton, Dara O'Shea,
Sam Allardyce- None
Valerien Ismael- Alex Palmer, Caleb Taylor, Ethan Ingram, Tom Fellows, Taylor Gardner-Hickman, Rico Richards, Toby King, Mo Faal, Reyes Cleary, Zac Ashworth,
Steve Bruce -(Gave 3 league debuts to Ashworth, Taylor & Palmer)
Carlos Corberán - Jamie Andrews, Jovan Malcolm, Josh Griffiths, Rico Richards
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Jacob Ramsey.
Is 21, Harrison joined villa in 2019. Id say he’s a success of the previous regime - as is archer and the other Ramsey.
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Don’t think Hopcroft and Mark Naylor are as good as they think they are. Constantly praising themselves on Twitter, cringeworthy. I’ve never really understood the hype with Harrison either, the biggest talents out of the west midlands recently have been through Villa & Blues. Further afield, Leicester, Coventry and forest have all produced decent players. I’d say our Academy has been hugely disappointing under Harrison and hopefully we can bring players through under Stevens.
Well unfortunately for us Villa do get the hype which is why they were taken off our hands along with Emmanuel (Manny) Abbeyquaye who joined them in 2020.
If you don't know who Mr. Abbeyquaye is he was credited with bringing Mo Faal to Albion along with a number of other players. Hopkins didn't do it all alone.
Stevens and his team are credited with 52 debut appearances for Coventry from the academy over a twelve year period (from memory of his LinkedIn profile).
Those numbers will have been swollen by Coventry's resources and necessity over that time span. Here's hoping they match/better that with Albion because with our current ownership structure they're going to need to.
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Well unfortunately for us Villa do get the hype which is why they were taken off our hands along with Emmanuel (Manny) Abbeyquaye who joined them in 2020.
If you don't know who Mr. Abbeyquaye is he was credited with bringing Mo Faal to Albion along with a number of other players. Hopkins didn't do it all alone.
Stevens and his team are credited with 52 debut appearances for Coventry from the academy over a twelve year period (from memory of his LinkedIn profile).
Those numbers will have been swollen by Coventry's resources and necessity over that time span. Here's hoping they match/better that with Albion because with our current ownership structure they're going to need to.
I can’t lie, losing a scout who’s notable achievement is Mo Faal doesn’t concern me. Are the scouts that Villa used to find Archer, Grealish, Ramsey bros still there? The blues scouts who found Redmond, Bellingham, Butland? I honestly think that we’ve massively underachieved during Harrison’s tenure. Who do we have in that timeframe? Berahino, sawyers? The attitudes of our youth seems poor, never get past the hype at 16/17. Hopefully Stevens can sort this.
It wouldn’t be a surprise if Villa end up with a load of 16/17 year olds hyped as future stars that don’t end up making it. Seemed to happen to us every year.
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I can’t lie, losing a scout who’s notable achievement is Mo Faal doesn’t concern me. Are the scouts that Villa used to find Archer, Grealish, Ramsey bros still there? The blues scouts who found Redmond, Bellingham, Butland? I honestly think that we’ve massively underachieved during Harrison’s tenure. Who do we have in that timeframe? Berahino, sawyers? The attitudes of our youth seems poor, never get past the hype at 16/17. Hopefully Stevens can sort this.
It wouldn’t be a surprise if Villa end up with a load of 16/17 year olds hyped as future stars that don’t end up making it. Seemed to happen to us every year.
No idea chap, you've clearly got a better angle on this than I have. Any clues as to why Villa would set about trying to dismantle our academy and adapting their wonderful system to accommodate 'ours' if it was as brown and sticky as you believe it was?
While not sure I'd be surprised to find it was simply because they could afford to and did. I believe our academy would have achieved more notable success with greater protection from higher profile clubs attentions and a better appreciation for squad development.
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List of Players from our academy or made their 1st team debut for us since 1989/90
Since 1989/90
If any have been missed then please add below.
Brian Talbot- Les Palmer, Ugo Ehiogu, Darren Rodgers, Neil Cartwright
Bobby Gould- Stewart Bowen, Roy Hunter, David Prichard
Ossie Ardlies- Scott Darton, Marc Sinfield, James McCue
Keith Burkinshaw- NONE
Alan Buckley- NONE
Ray Harford- Dean Bennett, Michael Rodosthenous, Chris Adamson
Denis Smith- Adam Oliver, Justin Richards
Brian Little- James Chambers
Gary Megson- Adam Chambers, Lloyd Dyer
Bryan Robson- Stuart Nicholson, Jared Hodgkiss, Rob Davies
Tony Mowbray- David Worrall, Chris Wood,
Roberto DI Matteo- George Thorne, Sam Mantom, James Hurst
Roy Hodgson- None
Steve Clarke- Isaiah Brown, Saido Berahino, Cameron Gayle, Luke Daniels
Pepe Mel- Liam O'Neil
Alan Irvine- None
Tony Pulis- Tyler Roberts, Jonathan Leko, Sam Field, Rakeem Harper, Kane Wilson
Alan Pardew- None
Darren Moore- Kyle Edwards, Kyle Howkins, Morgan Rodgers, Rayhaan Tulloch,
Slaven Billic- Nathan Ferguson, Jack Fitzwater, Saul Shotton, Dara O'Shea,
Sam Allardyce- None
Valerien Ismael- Alex Palmer, Caleb Taylor, Ethan Ingram, Tom Fellows, Taylor Gardner-Hickman, Rico Richards, Toby King, Mo Faal, Reyes Cleary, Zac Ashworth,
Steve Bruce -(Gave 3 league debuts to Ashworth, Taylor & Palmer)
Carlos Corberán - Jamie Andrews, Jovan Malcolm, Josh Griffiths, Rico Richards
Gabbidon missing? Possibly the best from that list beside Ugo in terms of premier league career appearances other than Chris Wood. Undeniably a pretty poor return for the best part of 25 years. We also let Ashley Williams go as a kid and he'd be up in the top 5 too. May be a few others we have let go before an appearance but none spring to mind.
It has been better in the last 10 years but it's still not been particularly good.
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Haha. No problem mate, you won’t have heard of him but his name’s Jonathan (or Jono) Bland. He wasn’t offered a scholarship at Albion, had a few offers and has decided to sign for Barnsley.
He’ll obviously still be in touch with most of the lads in the 18s & I’m still in touch with the Dads so if I hear anything juicy I’ll keep you posted ;)
Congratulations to your lad and yourself Blandy, you must have been beaming.....
'Jonathan Bland has been named Academy Player of the Season for the 22/23 campaign.
Bland, who joined the academy a year ago from West Bromwich Albion, has featured heavily in our title-winning U18s side under the stewardship of Nicky Eaden.
A central midfielder by trade, the 17-year-old has been utilised at centre-half for large parts this campaign, demonstrating his versatility and tactical awareness in a different role.
Our U18s are currently in Tenerife on a visit funded by the Alan Turing Scheme, training and playing games against local outfits.
Eaden's side then take on the U18 PDL play-offs, where they will play a one-legged semi-final. If successful, our young Reds will then face off in a final in order to win the overall trophy.
Bobby Hassell, Academy Manager, said: "Jonathan has had a fantastic season," he began. "He has played in various positions and excelled in them all. When you consider that he is only a first year scholar, his accolades of manager’s player, players’ player and academy player of the year, speak for themselves.
"Truly well-deserved awards for a great player and a genuinely nice, well-rounded young man."
On winning the award, Bland added: “I’m speechless, to be honest, I don’t know what to say. It’s just nice to get a bit of recognition. I came here because I wanted a chance to prove myself and I’m just grateful that’s what the coaches have done for me.
“They’ve given me the chance to prove that I’m the player that I think I am.â€
https://www.barnsleyfc.co.uk/news/20232/may/bland-wins-accolade/
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Congratulations to your lad and yourself Blandy, you must have been beaming.....
'Jonathan Bland has been named Academy Player of the Season for the 22/23 campaign.
Wow. That's really kind of you Dan. I didn't expect anyone to have picked up on that!
It's been an incredible year for him in all honesty - picking up on that article, they won the semi final mentioned there against Millwall, then beat Charlton in the Final on Saturday to be crowned National Champions at Cat 2 level.
It really couldn't have gone better.
He's still very much in touch with the Albion lads and actually met up with half a dozen of them in Brum yesterday as it happens.
And yes, we're incredibly proud of how he's adapted to everything after 10 years at the Albion. Living away from home in digs in a new town, new coaches, new teammates etc.
Long way to go still but yes,a great year.
Thanks again :)
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Generally I think we have been good at identifying and attracting our fair share of talent in the local pool and developing that talent to the first professional contract stage even allowing for some of our better prospects being poached (although many of those players haven't trained on which chimes with a broader point I feel sometimes overlooked that most 16 year old's don't make it.
If a 16 year old gets a decade long career as a professional (at any level) they are the exception rather than the rule and should be regarded as a success.
Nevertheless I feel we are poor at developing players from 16 to 21 and too few have broken through at the Hawthorns. Some of that is cultural (conservative coaches charged with short term goals) the processes within the academy and that has to be more to it than which entrance the academy players and coaches use.
Taking a slightly random game at Under 21 level (bear in mind 16 year olds are doing better than average to get to this stage) from October 2012 (i.e. long enough to see how things turned out) when we played Arsenal.
The first thing to note is that while 14 out of the 15 players we fielded were products of our academy. Only 6 came from Arsenal's; the remainder had been plucked from the youth set ups across Europe and in the case of Martinez beyond. Their academy can claim no credit for the early development of those players. Such is Arsenal’s muscle the players had been poached from Barca, Dortmund and Stuttgart we are not comparing like with like here.
Of the 6 genuine academy products only one was playing professional football last season and only 2 Frimpong and Wilshire ever played for Arsenal’s first team both had careers plagued by injury and have retired.
The imports have fared better all at least are still playing. Bellerin,Gnabry and Martinez have all gone on to have successful careers although only Bellerin was ever a regular at Arsenal. Of the rest most have had modest careers which are probably not as good as they might have hoped for when joining Arsenal as teenagers.
Of the Albion line up
Let’s deal with the odd man out, the only player that was not an Albion Academy product El’Ghanssy. He has retired from the game after a career that frankly looked similar to many of Arsenal’s imports e.g. a journey through some of the more obscure parts of Belgium and the Netherlands with the odd sojourn in Scandinavia or further afield.
Of the remaining 14 only 4 played professionally last season Sawyers, Daniels, Palmer (yes on the bench as 16 year old) and O’Neil. As for the rest, most have had some sort of professional career. 7 made first team debuts but only Sawyers (via Walsall and Brentford) and Palmer have ever been first team regulars.
Like Arsenal two of the most promising academy graduates Brown and Thorne had careers greatly impacted by injury both have retired from the game in their 20’s.
Aside from those that have retired from the game most are still active in semi professional game often in the Midlands not unlike their Arsenal counterparts who have been playing the Southern semi pro circuit.
I am not sure what this proves. When you allow for the fact that Arsenal have the luxury of cherry picking talent the outcomes aren’t that dissimilar. The plain fact is any given cohort at any academy is unlikely to generate a plethora of genuine stars; one or two solid professionals is more likely and by and large that is what we are producing.
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Wow. That's really kind of you Dan. I didn't expect anyone to have picked up on that!
It's been an incredible year for him in all honesty - picking up on that article, they won the semi final mentioned there against Millwall, then beat Charlton in the Final on Saturday to be crowned National Champions at Cat 2 level.
It really couldn't have gone better.
He's still very much in touch with the Albion lads and actually met up with half a dozen of them in Brum yesterday as it happens.
And yes, we're incredibly proud of how he's adapted to everything after 10 years at the Albion. Living away from home in digs in a new town, new coaches, new teammates etc.
Long way to go still but yes,a great year.
Thanks again :)
No worries Blandy, it's good to know he's kept his focus and moved forward having taken a step back. Dropping a level isn't necessarily taking a step down if it allows you to take stock and progress at your own rate. Some stand out points for me were:
1. 'A central midfielder by trade, the 17-year-old has been utilised at centre-half for large parts this campaign, demonstrating his versatility and tactical awareness in a different role.......
.......Bobby Hassell, Academy Manager, said: "Jonathan has had a fantastic season," he began.
2. "He has played in various positions and excelled in them all. When you consider that he is only a first year scholar, his accolades of manager’s player, players’ player and academy player of the year, speak for themselves.
3. "Truly well-deserved awards for a great player and a genuinely nice, well-rounded young man."
On winning the award, Bland added:
4. “I’m speechless, to be honest, I don’t know what to say. It’s just nice to get a bit of recognition. I came here because I wanted a chance to prove myself and I’m just grateful that’s what the coaches have done for me. They’ve given me the chance to prove that I’m the player that I think I am.â€
You picked up on a post I made earlier on this thread about players developing at different rates for a whole gamut of reasons, here's that post:
'Players mature at different rates physically, emotionally and in terms of tactical and general footballing know how. There are times when wrong calls are made.
There are also times when the stars align for those who are retained only for their sparkle to fade. Time, tide and finance provide for shifting sands.
For example, I'd be loathe to let Teixeira slip through the net as has been suggested may be the case earlier. But then I've no idea whether the coaching staff feel he may be blocking the pathway of someone they feel may have even more potential.
Either way we can't keep everyone'.
John's journey to date reflects what I was trying to convey. We can't keep hold of them all but your lad comes across very well. Humble, grounded and enjoying doing something he clearly loves doing.
Good parenting, good coaching at both clubs and tangible returns for a young man with potential and hopefully a successful future in the game. So long as he goes nowhere near the Vile or the Dings of course ;) .
Good luck to you both and what a story for Barnsley. Top of the level two academy table ahead of Sheffield United with a record points haul and the tour trophy in the bag. Here's hoping they don't beat us again next time we lock horns at their place though, it's getting a bit Stokish now.
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Joe Chapman
@ChapmanJ92
🚨 I gather #wba academy midfielder Jamal Jimoh is leaving for #avfc.
Albion did have a pre-contract agreement in place with the player and his reps, but Villa have agreed a fee. 🤝
Jimoh is an England U17 international. 🏴
That's 1m raised to keep us going.
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Joe Chapman
@ChapmanJ92
🚨 I gather #wba academy midfielder Jamal Jimoh is leaving for #avfc.
Albion did have a pre-contract agreement in place with the player and his reps, but Villa have agreed a fee. 🤝
Jimoh is an England U17 international. 🏴
That's 1m raised to keep us going.
1M for Lai more like
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Joe Chapman
@ChapmanJ92
🚨 I gather #wba academy midfielder Jamal Jimoh is leaving for #avfc.
Albion did have a pre-contract agreement in place with the player and his reps, but Villa have agreed a fee. 🤝
Jimoh is an England U17 international. 🏴
That's 1m raised to keep us going.
Bad move for us. If there was an agreed pre contract in place it means we'd managed to persuade one of them to stay. But instead we sell him off down the road for £1M.
No development of the player to see how he progresses and how his worth may increase in terms of ability or fee. Very short term thinking which may lead others to not even agree on pre contract to drum up the compensation.
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Bad move for us. If there was an agreed pre contract in place it means we'd managed to persuade one of them to stay. But instead we sell him off down the road for £1M.
No development of the player to see how he progresses and how his worth may increase in terms of ability or fee. Very short term thinking which may lead others to not even agree on pre contract to drum up the compensation.
Lai's Albion.
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Bad move for us. If there was an agreed pre contract in place it means we'd managed to persuade one of them to stay. But instead we sell him off down the road for £1M.
No development of the player to see how he progresses and how his worth may increase in terms of ability or fee. Very short term thinking which may lead others to not even agree on pre contract to drum up the compensation.
It's a good move for us. Most of these kids never make it, Izzy Brown, Louie Barry, Tim Iregbuunum a few examples.
How many people have heard of this kid? Never been mentioned alongside the likes of Harry Whitwell for example. Not spied in the PL2 team. OK he's young, but he's hardly had the dogs barking. The likes of Cleary, much more spoken about.
1 mil for this kid. Snap hands off.
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Lai's Albion.
Nothing to do with Lai he has nothing to do with the day to day running of the club.
I'd bet good money he couldn't name our favoured starting eleven let alone academy kids.
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Nothing to do with Lai he has nothing to do with the day to day running of the club.
I'd bet good money he couldn't name our favoured starting eleven let alone academy kids.
I refer to the general short sightedness of the club since he took over. It will remain until he leaves.
Not individual deals. He wouldn't have an idea at all.
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I refer to the general short sightedness of the club since he took over. It will remain until he leaves.
Not individual deals. He wouldn't have an idea at all.
That's irrelevant to this particular deal though.
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That's irrelevant to this particular deal though.
Not when the short sightedness is consistent it's not.
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Not when the short sightedness is consistent it's not.
It's not shortsighted though is it?
This kid MIGHT make it, but it's long odds against, I'd suggest 25/1. Let Villa take the risk. With the backing and money they have, they can afford to. We are in pooh Street and need to generate every pound we can.
1 Mill for a kid who "probably" won't make it is a hell of a deal in our situation.
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It's not shortsighted though is it?
This kid MIGHT make it, but it's long odds against, I'd suggest 25/1. Let Villa take the risk. With the backing and money they have, they can afford to. We are in pooh Street and need to generate every pound we can.
1 Mill for a kid who "probably" won't make it is a hell of a deal in our situation.
I'm not talking about the kid Atomic. My comment to Dan was about Lai's 'strategy' in general.
This is just further evidence.
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I'm not talking about the kid Atomic. My comment to Dan was about Lai's 'strategy' in general.
This is just further evidence.
Lai doesn't have a strategy he doesn't run the club on a hands on basis. Make no mistake he (and whoever he's in bed with ,) wants out but wants maximum dollar.
How the club is run he couldn't give a Christmas turkey about.
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It's a good move for us. Most of these kids never make it, Izzy Brown, Louie Barry, Tim Iregbuunum (spelling, daft name) a few examples.
How many people have heard of this kid? Never been mentioned alongside the likes of Harry Whitwell for example. Not spied in the PL2 team. OK he's young, but he's hardly had the dogs barking. The likes of Cleary, much more spoken about.
1 mil for this kid. Snap hands off.
I've heard of him. A lot. If you haven't then read this thread back a bit. We all know they can go either way, only an idiot would suggest otherwise but this looks plain stupid to me. The only proviso/caveat I would place against that is whether they think he'll ultimately fail because of attitude and application. The ability is definitely there.
There is a reason why other clubs have been sniffing around him for the best part of two seasons. Chelsea and Arsenal initially followed by Tottenham, Manchester United and now the Vile. And the reason isn't because they don't think he'll make it.
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Lai doesn't have a strategy he doesn't run the club on a hands on basis. Make no mistake he (and whoever he's in bed with ,) wants out but wants maximum dollar.
How the club is run he couldn't give a Christmas turkey about.
No he doesn't run it day to day, how many times have we seen him? His appointments do though so ultimately he is responsible.
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Where the club is at the moment it is a sale we can make without it impacting the first team squad. However the fee is a drop in the ocean. It might cover the wages of Jed Wallace for a year.
In an ideal world I'd rather keep the player and reap the benefit if he does develop. We keep losing players to the Vile and sooner or later one will develop and that is going to hurt.
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Given that a lot of these youngsters were going to be seduced by a neighbouring Premier League team whatever we did, it's sensible to take the money in our present predicament.
Perhaps we could load the likes of Tim Iroegbunam back for a season or two or maybe the Vile don't want to lend to a local rival.
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Another one gone (ish - nothing actually signed yet afaik). Potentially a(nother) terrible decision. £1M is peanuts in today's football world.
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Bad move for us. If there was an agreed pre contract in place it means we'd managed to persuade one of them to stay. But instead we sell him off down the road for £1M.
No development of the player to see how he progresses and how his worth may increase in terms of ability or fee. Very short term thinking which may lead others to not even agree on pre contract to drum up the compensation.
to be fair, my understanding is that he told the club he wouldn’t sign anything and was going, part of the reason he wasn’t bumped up to the under 21’s.
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Another one gone (ish - nothing actually signed yet afaik). Potentially a(nother) terrible decision. £1M is peanuts in today's football world.
it’s peanuts to the top leagues, it’s a decent wedge for EFL clubs nowadays.
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Needs must unfortunately.
I read last week that it was Chelsea who were after him.
Hopefully, a big club will come in and pay more for him and he doesn't end up at the scum.
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One thing to note is we finished above villa in PL2 so if their is academy is so good how did that happen?
Obviously money related if he wants to go so take the cash
You never know that million could pay for 2 loans for players more likely to influence our first team , alternatively that million pays for Grants wages for a year
Here’s hoping the former
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They are a much bigger club so you can't blame him really, even if it doesn't work he will be loaded.
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Where the club is at the moment it is a sale we can make without it impacting the first team squad. However the fee is a drop in the ocean. It might cover the wages of Jed Wallace for a year.
In an ideal world I'd rather keep the player and reap the benefit if he does develop. We keep losing players to the Vile and sooner or later one will develop and that is going to hurt.
You could argue that the fee for Jamal will make a 30% contribution to the cost of running the academy, which has been a decent source for the first team squad over the recent past.
Alternatively, we could close the academy & create a global scouting network, as things stand, I'm not sure we can do both.
Personally, my strategy would be a self sustaining academy.
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I have just read that we have a 10% sell on clause so if Jamal could hurry up and become the next Jack Grealish ideally without becoming a complete dick it would be much appreciated.
My earlier point was that the fee although welcome was far from job done as far as player sales this summer.
Unfortunately our position is such is it won't be a question of an academy or something else. It will be no academy and the money saved will just disappear on routine operating expenses.
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Turning something into nothing. Classic Lai
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It's a good move for us. Most of these kids never make it, Izzy Brown, Louie Barry, Tim Iregbuunum a few examples.
How many people have heard of this kid? Never been mentioned alongside the likes of Harry Whitwell for example. Not spied in the PL2 team. OK he's young, but he's hardly had the dogs barking. The likes of Cleary, much more spoken about.
1 mil for this kid. Snap hands off.
They are still only teenagers!
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Tim is already Champo quality. Of course remains to be seen if he can make it to PL. Probably won't. Most don't.
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to be fair, my understanding is that he told the club he wouldn’t sign anything and was going, part of the reason he wasn’t bumped up to the under 21’s.
We keep producing players for the England age group sides and as soon as they are in that environment agents (via players at the big clubs) advise them not to sign a new contract with us so that they can pick up a big signing-on fee. Once their heads are turned, that’s them gone.
Sadly it’s where we now are in the law of the jungle.
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They are still only teenagers!
correct, Louie Barry is still a teenager… for 8 more days.
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We keep producing players for the England age group sides and as soon as they are in that environment agents (via players at the big clubs) advise them not to sign a new contract with us so that they can pick up a big signing-on fee. Once their heads are turned, that’s them gone.
Sadly it’s where we now are in the law of the jungle.
We poach young players from ‘smaller’ clubs. They get poached off us then if they are any good they will move again. It’s the way it’s always been. As long as we make a bit of money and there’s a sell on clause that’s the business.
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We poach young players from ‘smaller’ clubs. They get poached off us then if they are any good they will move again. It’s the way it’s always been. As long as we make a bit of money and there’s a sell on clause that’s the business.
That’s correct although the youth players that we poach from other clubs are typically not ones exposed to the England age group squads which attracts the agents and influencers and the money being talked about will turn any youngster’s head (and those of their parents).
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to be fair, my understanding is that he told the club he wouldn’t sign anything and was going, part of the reason he wasn’t bumped up to the under 21’s.
To be fair I remember reading Blandy's post as well. Equally it's worth keeping in mind that he'd gone on to agree pre contract terms which suggests a shift in the sands before we accepted the Vile's bid.
No doubt there'll be posts before long lamenting our inability to develop our own (again) followed by yet more navel gazing about whether we should scrap the academy (again).
Weirdly enough while I am vexed that he's gone to the Vile that isn't my biggest problem with this. My biggest problem is that we've sent a signal that everything's up for sale including academy player futures.
I realise it's the lie of the land in professional football and our current predicament in particular that players move on. But it boils my urine that it's accepted and almost embraced because we're owned by incompetent kufchwtihs who have led us to this place.
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To be fair I remember reading Blandy's post as well. Equally it's worth keeping in mind that he'd gone on to agree pre contract terms which suggests a shift in the sands before we accepted the Vile's bid.
No doubt there'll be posts before long lamenting our inability to develop our own (again) followed by yet more navel gazing about whether we should scrap the academy (again).
Weirdly enough while I am vexed that he's gone to the Vile that isn't my biggest problem with this. My biggest problem is that we've sent a signal that everything's up for sale including academy player futures.
I realise it's the lie of the land in professional football and our current predicament in particular that players move on. But it boils my urine that it's accepted and almost embraced because we're owned by incompetent kufchwtihs who have led us to this place.
I think the fact our owners want out for has much has possible as soon as possible means we are very much in the future doesn’t matter.
Short term we need to be promoted regardless of any forward squad planning and giving youth a chance
CC took over a team destined for relegation and did remarkably to get us in with a shout, I’m hoping with a full season he may be more inclined to give some of our youngsters more minutes when literally every game is a must win
He’s obviously gone for more money we can offer and if it sets him up for life and he doesn’t make it big you can’t blame the kid
There should however be something put in place bu the FA regarding compensation or minimum sell on fees but we all know they are not interested in anything that doesn’t include the greed league
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We need to sell players £1million plus 10% is a great deal.
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We've sold a kid that statistically "probably" won't make the grade for more money than we spent on BTA or would get for the likes of Adam Reach.
Let that sink in for a second! Bearing in mind we are in pooh Street, need to sell and need every penny we can get.
How can anyone argue that's a bad deal for us in the present climate? Crazy.
We've done really well here.
There's always the tiny chance he could turn out to be this generations Messi but if Vile sell him to City for £100 mil, we get £10 mil of it.
It's the right deal for us at this time, given the current climate 150%.
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Whilst I understand why some are comfortable with why we have done it. I'm not, and I cannot agree we have done well. £1m is nothing. We got £4m for Rogers in a similar situation.
Whilst it may not always be worth taking the chance, I think when you have an England youth international on a pre-contract we should have done so IMO.
Losing these good prospects always annoys me though. I've always accepted we aren't likely to win big prizes, so one of the things I would love to see from us is bringing through young talent who play 100 games from us before moving to play at the top level. That's not going to happen either though, as anytime we have someone who might have the potential, we lose them.
Meanwhile, our peers Bristol City will make £20m for Alex Scott and Blues the best part of £40m for Bellingham.
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The one they are worried about losing is a year under but will play 18s minimum & probably 23s - Jamal Jimoh (CM). Apparently Albion have knocked back 2m+ bids from Chelsea, Man Utd & Southampton.
Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but the deal could have been an awful lot better. I know it's fashionable to lay the fault at the Boardroom door but I'll place it firmly in Richard Stevens' lap. He does like to play hardball with these young players & all it does is engender more resentment. He did it with Lino Sousa, effectively banning the lad from playing or training for 7 months whilst the Premier League investigated a tapping up claim against Villa. Nothing was proven (as it so often isn't) and Sousa signed for Arsenal anyway, so all that was achieved was depriving a 16 year old boy the opportunity to play football for the best part of a year.
It was a little less severe with Jamal but keeping him in the 16s when he's 21s ready was just a bit spiteful, so when it came to it, Jamal contemplated signing for Rangers, which would have been classed as "abroad" and Albion would have received something like 200k in compensation. So they took Villa's money instead.
And on the "pre contract agreement", I would imagine that was just for his scholarship, and has been in place since he was 13 or 14. He certainly won't have signed anything in the last year or so.
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Its all well and good selling our most promising youngsters but I would argue that we need them now more than ever before with us selling lots of players and having no money to sign any replacements.
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but the deal could have been an awful lot better. I know it's fashionable to lay the fault at the Boardroom door but I'll place it firmly in Richard Stevens' lap. He does like to play hardball with these young players & all it does is engender more resentment. He did it with Lino Sousa, effectively banning the lad from playing or training for 7 months whilst the Premier League investigated a tapping up claim against Villa. Nothing was proven (as it so often isn't) and Sousa signed for Arsenal anyway, so all that was achieved was depriving a 16 year old boy the opportunity to play football for the best part of a year.
It was a little less severe with Jamal but keeping him in the 16s when he's 21s ready was just a bit spiteful, so when it came to it, Jamal contemplated signing for Rangers, which would have been classed as "abroad" and Albion would have received something like 200k in compensation. So they took Villa's money instead.
And on the "pre contract agreement", I would imagine that was just for his scholarship, and has been in place since he was 13 or 14. He certainly won't have signed anything in the last year or so.
Concerning to read about Stevens, I've heard lots of good things about him from his Coventry days but perhaps that doesn't translate as well with us as we don't have that pathway they they had (granted it was through necessity as they tumbled down the leagues). Maybe this kind of thing will be a strength if worst comes to worse and that happens to us!
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Who appointed Stevens? He sounds fairly similar to Dowling in his Academy approach.
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Hindsight is a wonderful thing of course but the deal could have been an awful lot better. I know it's fashionable to lay the fault at the Boardroom door but I'll place it firmly in Richard Stevens' lap. He does like to play hardball with these young players & all it does is engender more resentment. He did it with Lino Sousa, effectively banning the lad from playing or training for 7 months whilst the Premier League investigated a tapping up claim against Villa. Nothing was proven (as it so often isn't) and Sousa signed for Arsenal anyway, so all that was achieved was depriving a 16 year old boy the opportunity to play football for the best part of a year.
It was a little less severe with Jamal but keeping him in the 16s when he's 21s ready was just a bit spiteful, so when it came to it, Jamal contemplated signing for Rangers, which would have been classed as "abroad" and Albion would have received something like 200k in compensation. So they took Villa's money instead.
And on the "pre contract agreement", I would imagine that was just for his scholarship, and has been in place since he was 13 or 14. He certainly won't have signed anything in the last year or so.
Do the pre-set compensation amounts for moving between academies end at 16?
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Do the pre-set compensation amounts for moving between academies end at 16?
It's a bit of a grey area but it appears so. The basic comp for someone like Jamal would be around the 200k that Rangers would have to pay, but as he's an England Age Group International it essentially makes the value rocket (for English clubs), and is then open to negotiation. I think as long as a contract is offered, the club losing the player has a right to the compensation.
That's how I understand it anyway.
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Whilst I understand why some are comfortable with why we have done it. I'm not, and I cannot agree we have done well. £1m is nothing. We got £4m for Rogers in a similar situation.
Whilst it may not always be worth taking the chance, I think when you have an England youth international on a pre-contract we should have done so IMO.
Losing these good prospects always annoys me though. I've always accepted we aren't likely to win big prizes, so one of the things I would love to see from us is bringing through young talent who play 100 games from us before moving to play at the top level. That's not going to happen either though, as anytime we have someone who might have the potential, we lose them.
Meanwhile, our peers Bristol City will make £20m for Alex Scott and Blues the best part of £40m for Bellingham.
Alex Scott is 3 years older, with two seasons of Championship football behind him, and an established England U20 international. They didn’t sign him till he was 17. Bellingham is also now around 20 with numerous England caps and European experience. Not exactly chalk and cheese.
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Alex Scott is 3 years older, with two seasons of Championship football behind him, and an established England U20 international. They didn’t sign him till he was 17. Bellingham is also now around 20 with numerous England caps and European experience. Not exactly chalk and cheese.
Blues sold Bellingham practically on his 17 birthday. It doesn’t matter how much older Alex Scott is either. The point was if we keep losing them go this young we never have any chance of seeing those sort of returns.
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There's always the tiny chance he could turn out to be this generations Messi but if Vile sell him to City for £100 mil, we get £10 mil of it.
Who cares? The current amount will pay Grant's wages for the next year. That's it.
Selling the kid, any kid, because they're afraid they won't reach their potential, is nuts, and typical of the short term thinking that has prevailed at the Albion since... well, since I can remember. It's the same thinking that has us signing hasbeens and paying them over the odds just because they had a decent PL season once. It's the same thinking that has got us into the mess that we're in.
A long term plan, improving the squad from its roots (i.e. the youth squads), supplemented with players from lower down the pyramid and abroad found through good scouting is the only way we're going to improve.
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Blues sold Bellingham practically on his 17 birthday. It doesn’t matter how much older Alex Scott is either. The point was if we keep losing them go this young we never have any chance of seeing those sort of returns.
You’re missing the point. Players cannot sign a professional contract until their 17th birthday, which is why we keep losing 15 and 16 year olds to other clubs. Therefore you can’t compare a compensation fee paid for a 16 year old with a transfer fee paid for a 19/20 year old.
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You’re missing the point. Players cannot sign a professional contract until their 17th birthday, which is why we keep losing 15 and 16 year olds to other clubs. Therefore you can’t compare a compensation fee paid for a 16 year old with a transfer fee paid for a 19/20 year old.
You can sign pre contracts before 17 and these do appear to be enforceable although I don't know how much anyone's tried to break one . I've seen clubs announce players have signed them previously, heard a football league chairman say they are enforceable, and remember stories from the time we had Izzy Brown that we believed we had a valid pre-contract and that we had addressed any pre-contract issues arising again.
It has reported we had one in this case (although Blandy has said he thinks that's incorrect).
When I say enforceable, I don’t mean legally either, as a minor can’t sign any binding contract under 18 for anything but ‘essentials’. The FA/FIFA can govern in such a way to make them unable to register for any other club though.
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You can sign pre contracts before 17 and these do appear to be enforceable although I don't know how much anyone's tried to break one . I've seen clubs announce players have signed them previously, heard a football league chairman say they are enforceable, and remember stories from the time we had Izzy Brown that we believed we had a valid pre-contract and that we had addressed any pre-contract issues arising again.
It has reported we had one in this case (although Blandy has said he thinks that's incorrect).
When I say enforceable, I don’t mean legally either, as a minor can’t sign any binding contract under 18 for anything but ‘essentials’. The FA/FIFA can govern in such a way to make them unable to register for any other club though.
It’s a legal minefield and certainly wouldn’t want to rely on enforceability.
In practice, our best youngsters usually get their heads turned when they get into England age group squads and are “advised†not to sign anything so that they can be poached with nil or nominal compensation
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No one here even wants to give the steam off their pi ss to the dark side, let alone a promising youngster, who was apparently prepared to stay (I hope him wanting to stay is a sign of the good work being done by Stevens behind the scenes).
However, we are skint, and needs must.
I hope he flops there, and has a good career after they release him for free.
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More of our kids will be leaving if they keep forcing them to model tat like this
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyrBJpmaMAQ7P3r?format=jpg&name=small)
What have we become.
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More of our kids will be leaving if they keep forcing them to model tat like this
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FyrBJpmaMAQ7P3r?format=jpg&name=small)
What have we become.
It's a range of four items on the shop website.
Assume it's being tried as a source of income over the summer period until the new kit is launched.
Fair play to the marketing team for giving it a try.
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The 'Hawaian Range' looks like it's been thrown up against a wall. Cleary in particular does not look impressed. Neither am I. If that's the best the marketing team can do they'd be better served opening a stall on the chronically underfunded site otherwise known as West Brom market. It's only fair to point out that the bogs don't work. Just in case.
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Villa in advanced talks to sign Rico Richards. He's still under contract technically so whacked it here.
https://www.footballinsider247.com/revealed-aston-villa-in-advanced-talks-to-sign-west-brom-star-richards-sources/
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Villa in advanced talks to sign Rico Richards. He's still under contract technically so whacked it here.
https://www.footballinsider247.com/revealed-aston-villa-in-advanced-talks-to-sign-west-brom-star-richards-sources/
Maintain we should have offered him another year with us. Nothing to do with him being in talks with the Vile either. Oh well.....
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Surely if we offered him a first team squad slot, he would stay with us. If he's considered by the sages at the club not to be worth a place, who else among the academy midfielders might be?
(Of course with the dynamic and hard running Chalobah and Mowatt we're rich in that position ::) )
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Maintain we should have offered him another year with us. Nothing to do with him being in talks with the Vile either. Oh well.....
So do I. He wasn’t ready to be written off yet
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Are the Vile completely incapable of bringing through their own players? Once again it makes a mockery of our academy, that we bring them through and as soon as they show any promise they are gone!!
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Are the Vile completely incapable of bringing through their own players? Once again it makes a mockery of our academy, that we bring them through and as soon as they show any promise they are gone!!
We released him so he was already gone. It was our choice so it's not like Villa took him off us.
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Does he seriously think he'll make more appearances at Villa than with us? I think he'll be way behind in the pecking order there.
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Does he seriously think he'll make more appearances at Villa than with us? I think he'll be way behind in the pecking order there.
we released him, I think it's more he'd like to be in A club at all rather than having the freedom to pick.
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Are the Vile completely incapable of bringing through their own players? Once again it makes a mockery of our academy, that we bring them through and as soon as they show any promise they are gone!!
For me any promise Richards had was a couple of years back , a change of scenery might do him the world of good perhaps he was very comfortable here but wherever he ends up he would need to exert far more influence on games than I’ve seen in recent months . Not surprised we let him go.
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Did Jaime Andrews and Mo Faal sign those new contracts ?
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Did Jaime Andrews and Mo Faal sign those new contracts ?
Jamie Andrews is showing picturs of himself in training with us on his social media so would assume he has.
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The academy has retained it's category one status
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/albion-academy-given-premier-league-stamp-approval?fbclid=IwAR2KgumpPogh7MXlgpuH-zJrIRrdnYd9yhIOMSc6qyybZXctGnI4F_xG-XI
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The academy has retained it's category one status
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/albion-academy-given-premier-league-stamp-approval?fbclid=IwAR2KgumpPogh7MXlgpuH-zJrIRrdnYd9yhIOMSc6qyybZXctGnI4F_xG-XI
I believe Ron Gourlay had said that some of the MSD loan was earmarked for this project.
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Castro signing for York when his contract expires.
Stepping stone plan didn't quite pan out for him.
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Castro signing for York when his contract expires.
Stepping stone plan didn't quite pan out for him.
How dare you doubt him, WBA to York to Barcelona. Seems to make sense.
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How dare you doubt him, WBA to York to Barcelona. Seems to make sense.
Quite right. Sorry I was doubting his ability there. My apologies!
He's heard there are some lovely buildings in York so stopping off for a year.
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Jamal Jimoh has confirmed on Instagram he's off (to AV i guess)
"This is not a message I thought I’d be writing so soon, to a club that has done so much for me and my family.
After 10 years, It is with a heavy heart that i have made the very difficult decision to leave my boyhood club. This was not an easy decision for me to take, however it's one that i felt was necessary.
I would like to thank everybody at West Brom, my team mates for supporting me week in week out on the pitch & my coaches for pushing me year after year to improve.
I’m forever grateful.
Jamal Jimoh 💙🤍"
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Jamal Jimoh has confirmed on Instagram he's off (to AV i guess)
"This is not a message I thought I’d be writing so soon, to a club that has done so much for me and my family.
After 10 years, It is with a heavy heart that i have made the very difficult decision to leave my boyhood club. This was not an easy decision for me to take, however it's one that i felt was necessary.
I would like to thank everybody at West Brom, my team mates for supporting me week in week out on the pitch & my coaches for pushing me year after year to improve.
I’m forever grateful.
Jamal Jimoh 💙🤍"
Money talks.
We cannot turn down a decent bid for anyone.
Young teenagers cannot turn down the wages the money bags seals are offering
The seals are buying youth players from all over the country and going down the Chelsea model of making money through then loaning them out.
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My nephew has recently signed with the academy. Had trials with Walsall, Coventry, Albion, Wolves, Forrest & Leicester. Got offered by Coventry Walsall and Wolves, turned down by the other 3, was all but about to sign with Wolves and Albion called back with a 'change of heart' - He's now signed with us (U16's) Hopefully one for the future.
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My nephew has recently signed with the academy. Had trials with Walsall, Coventry, Albion, Wolves, Forrest & Leicester. Got turned offered by Coventry Walsall and Wolves, turned down by the other 3, was all but about to sign with Wolves and Albion called back with a 'change of heart' - He's now signed with us (U16's) Hopefully one for the future.
Good luck to him!
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Congratulations to your nephew Joust!
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My nephew has recently signed with the academy. Had trials with Walsall, Coventry, Albion, Wolves, Forrest & Leicester. Got offered by Coventry Walsall and Wolves, turned down by the other 3, was all but about to sign with Wolves and Albion called back with a 'change of heart' - He's now signed with us (U16's) Hopefully one for the future.
Nice one. Congratulations to him
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My nephew has recently signed with the academy. Had trials with Walsall, Coventry, Albion, Wolves, Forrest & Leicester. Got offered by Coventry Walsall and Wolves, turned down by the other 3, was all but about to sign with Wolves and Albion called back with a 'change of heart' - He's now signed with us (U16's) Hopefully one for the future.
When's he signing for the Vile?
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My nephew has recently signed with the academy. Had trials with Walsall, Coventry, Albion, Wolves, Forrest & Leicester. Got offered by Coventry Walsall and Wolves, turned down by the other 3, was all but about to sign with Wolves and Albion called back with a 'change of heart' - He's now signed with us (U16's) Hopefully one for the future.
What's his name mate? So we can keep an eye on his progress.
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What's his name mate? So we can keep an eye on his progress.
Alfie Chappell
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Alfie Chappell
You don't happen to be related to a Gareth Chappell do you?
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You don't happen to be related to a Gareth Chappell do you?
No mate
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Welcome to to the Albion, Alfie! Good choice. I’ll be watching his progress.
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Anyone know if we are receiving a fee from Villa for Jamal Jimoh
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Reports say £1.million
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Plus 10% of any future sell on fee.
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Plus 10% of any future sell on fee.
Ah, the Ugo special ;D
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Not seen it said in here, but this season there is a change to the U23 program. Instead of two divisions with promotion and relegation, it will be one big division, using something called the "Swiss Model" to choose which teams play which.
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Not seen it said in here, but this season there is a change to the U23 program. Instead of two divisions with promotion and relegation, it will be one big division, using something called the "Swiss Model" to choose which teams play which.
Spin the Toblerone?
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Spin the Toblerone?
Not sure I want to know where it goes if you lose...
https://theathletic.com/4655570/2023/07/02/premier-league-pl2-youth-eppp?source=user-shared-article
"Premier League 2 (PL2) will now consist of one division holding all 25 teams — instead of two divisions, a top tier of 14 and the other of 11, with promotion and relegation between them — with each playing 20 matches, meaning sides who previously competed in Division One will have six fewer regular-season games and it won’t be the traditional case of all clubs in the league playing all the others home and away.
The 25 clubs will be divided into five pots based on a seeding calculated using their performance over the last three years and play all the other sides in their pot plus either four or five teams from the other four pots to reach 20 games. At the conclusion of the regular season, the top 16 teams will progress to a knockout tournament to decide the champions. For the other nine, their year will be over."
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So although unlikely a team finishing 16th can be crowned PL2 Champions. Hmmm. And there's some who don't agree with the playoff system ;D .
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Good news if our u23's play more games in my opinion. 20 games over a year season seemed low to me when your aim is to get players read for mens football. (PL1 played 26).
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not going to be 2 leagues but 1 league divided in 2, I gave up at that !
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Clubs announced some contracts on the official site.
Akeel Higgins looks the most mature. Not heard much of him but he’s not 18 yet but scored 4 and got 2 assists in 13 appearances (just 718 minutes) for the u23s. Not bad at that age for a wide forward / attacking mid.
Fenton Heard is another who has also signed. He and Harry whitwell were both big prospects at 15 or and both rumoured to be interesting Villa.
Id love it (in token geordie accent) if these lads could go on to have better careers than those who’ve left. Particularly those who went to Villa.
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Based on the fact we don't have Cleary with the first team despite the fact literally our only forwards with the first team squad for todays friendly are BTA and Jovan Malcom (who's only first team action is a couple of failed loans), clearly we do not particularly rate him, which seems odd given his record but still.
I guess Faal is in the same boat. Particularly telling when we have the somewhat younger Whitwell and Mfuamba kept with the first team side.
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Based on the fact we don't have Cleary with the first team despite the fact literally our only forwards with the first team squad for todays friendly are BTA and Jovan Malcom (who's only first team action is a couple of failed loans), clearly we do not particularly rate him, which seems odd given his record but still.
I guess Faal is in the same boat. Particularly telling when we have the somewhat younger Whitwell and Mfuamba kept with the first team side.
Is Cleary fit? Remember reading he might be injured currently.
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Yeah he had injury that was likely to carry over to the start of the season.
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Yeah he had injury that was likely to carry over to the start of the season.
Not ITK but I seem to remember reading he was overweight when he reported back for pre season training at the start of last season. If so then I sincerely hope he's taken better care of himself this time around, especially as he's been injured. This could be a big season for him and it would be great if it's big is for all of the right reasons.
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Haven’t seen Faal in any pics recently so has he left? All the other youngsters that reported back with the seniors are there
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Saw videos/photos of him when they reported back. He could just be with the under-23s
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Based on the fact we don't have Cleary with the first team despite the fact literally our only forwards with the first team squad for todays friendly are BTA and Jovan Malcom (who's only first team action is a couple of failed loans), clearly we do not particularly rate him, which seems odd given his record but still.
I guess Faal is in the same boat. Particularly telling when we have the somewhat younger Whitwell and Mfuamba kept with the first team side.
You'll never win anything with kids ;)
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Based on the fact we don't have Cleary with the first team despite the fact literally our only forwards with the first team squad for todays friendly are BTA and Jovan Malcom (who's only first team action is a couple of failed loans), clearly we do not particularly rate him, which seems odd given his record but still.
I guess Faal is in the same boat. Particularly telling when we have the somewhat younger Whitwell and Mfuamba kept with the first team side.
I think that Cleary is injured. Best striker at the club
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He might well have come back slighly overweight but he has not been able to train during the break which might be a reason for this.
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He might well have come back slighly overweight but he has not been able to train during the break which might be a reason for this.
Are you referring to Faal or Cleary? If it's the latter it was last season when he reputedly returned overweight. No idea what shape he's in now following injury.
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Zac Ashworth going back to L1 on loan according to Chapman so left out the squad.
Must be running with Townsend and Pieters/Reach as back up for the season ahead
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West Bromwich Albion
@WBA
We can confirm @ZacAshworth2 has joined Bolton Wanderers on a season-long loan. 🤝
Wishing you all the best for the season, Zac! 👊
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Intertesting this article states they can make it a permanent move if they want to.
https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/zac-makes-it-six
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Intertesting this article states they can make it a permanent move if they want to.
https://www.bwfc.co.uk/news/zac-makes-it-six
Wonder what the agreed cost is?
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Wonder what the agreed cost is?
1 year extension for Phillips or Reach
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I haven’t seen much of Ashworth but from what I’ve read he was highly thought off. It is a bit strange giving Bolton the option to buy him after this loan, particularly as he may excel over the season
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This deal looks like the club coming to the conclusion that Zak isn't going to make it at Championship level and or whoever is coming up in the next age group is a better prospect. We will see no doubt.
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He’s 21 in 6 weeks, I’ve only seen him a couple of time and not seen anything to suggest he’s going to make it in the next couple of years in the championship tbh.
Not as if he’s 17/18 any more
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He’s 21 in 6 weeks, I’ve only seen him a couple of time and not seen anything to suggest he’s going to make it in the next couple of years in the championship tbh.
Not as if he’s 17/18 any more
This is true. The last time i think i saw him play was against Chesterfield away where he had a bad half and was subbed at HT.
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Can’t we sign his father as a replacement 😂😂
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Please can those who have seen Whitewell confirm he is our saviour?
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Please can those who have seen Whitewell confirm he is our saviour?
From what I saw of the stream the other night v Salford he looked a tidy player at the least, quite dynamic.
TGH looked like our saviour for a few minutes!
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Please can those who have seen Whitewell confirm he is our saviour?
Whitwell had some good moments and looks a prospect but I wouldn't want to heap too much expectation by suggesting he'll be a saviour. Kevin Mfuamba came on in midfield during the second half. Looked very composed, has an eye for a pass and is a bit of a unit for his age. Two promising young players.
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Whitwell had some good moments and looks a prospect but I wouldn't want to heap too much expectation by suggesting he'll be a saviour. Kevin Mfuamba came on in midfield during the second half. Looked very composed, has an eye for a pass and is a bit of a unit for his age. Two promising young players.
Sounds like Viles scouting department will be monitoring these two.
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Sounds like Viles scouting department will be monitoring these two.
Come to mention it there was a funny smelling little bloke stood next to me at Salford. Oh hang on, no that was my lad and he's been brought up in the appropriate manner so definitely not a scout for 'that' lot. He's just a bit musty at times ;D .
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Come to mention it there was a funny smelling little bloke stood next to me at Salford. Oh hang on, no that was my lad and he's been brought up in the appropriate manner so definitely not a scout for 'that' lot. He's just a bit musty at times ;D .
;D
Fatherly love
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;D
Fatherly love
You can lead your son to the bathroom but once that door's shut you can't turn the water on ;) .
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He’s 21 in 6 weeks, I’ve only seen him a couple of time and not seen anything to suggest he’s going to make it in the next couple of years in the championship tbh.
Not as if he’s 17/18 any more
at 21 you'd think players would be pushing into lower end championship teams which is pretty much what we are.
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Andrews , Faal, Harper -Bailey, and Foster have signed new contracts
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Andrews , Faal, Harper -Bailey, and Foster have signed new contracts
Ted Cann has also had his 1 year contract extension activated.
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The world might be in a right old mess what with global boiling, Ukraine &c, but at least we have a player called Layton Love. What more could you want?
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On the basis of these friendlies, how many of the Academy 'kids' look ready to make the step-up into the first team squad? In particular, how many of the strikers.
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On the basis of these friendlies, how many of the Academy 'kids' look ready to make the step-up into the first team squad? In particular, how many of the strikers.
Strikers - None, definitely.
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On the basis of these friendlies, how many of the Academy 'kids' look ready to make the step-up into the first team squad? In particular, how many of the strikers.
Malcolm is the only one of the young strikers to play much pre season. Faal hasn't played much , presumably due to his contract being sorted....while Cleary who is surely the most likely of the 3 based on record over the past couple of seasons plus international recognition along with being a year younger, is not back from injury yet.
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18 year old Romain Esse scored for Milwall yesterday, as did 19 year old Harry Leonard for Blackburn. 2 players who only turned 20 over the summer, Matheus Martins for Watford and Jonathan Rowe for Norwich also scored, while another 20 year old, Liam Delap, got off to a good start at Hull with a debut goal. 21 year olds Ki Jana Hoever at Stoke, Sam Bell at Bristol City, Dilan Markandy at Blackburn and Bali Mumba at Plymouth all scored (Plymouth's other 2 scorers were 22).
The average age of the goal scorers so far this weekend seems exceptionally young, as more and more championship clubs turn to their home grown talent to make up for the lack of money in the division.
In a year or two, we will likely be forced to rely quite heavily on academy graduates. I expect we will then find out that they aren't all as naive and risky as several of our first team coaches have led us to believe.
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There is a trialist playing for our u23s tonight against Villa.
Good to see we are cutting to the chase and letting Villa have a look at the lad now to save us the bother if he’s any good.
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Winning 1-0. Tulloch scored. Forgot about him
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There is a trialist playing for our u23s tonight against Villa.
Good to see we are cutting to the chase and letting Villa have a look at the lad now to save us the bother if he’s any good.
This made laugh but we have flipped the script this time. The triallist according to the Vile academy account is Ruben Shakpoke who they have just released.
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3 up now with the Vile down to 10 men ! :D :D :D :D
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3 up now with the Vile down to 10 men ! :D :D :D :D
Lai has probably sold half of the starting XI to Villa for a 'Pick any 5 for £5m' bundle deal at the final whistle though :D
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I know there is a member on here (apologies cant remeber who, sorry) that knows thwe youth setup very well but speaking to people it seems that we have a really good crop in the U18's this season and some could feature for the U23's this early.
Lets hope that this will benefit us moving forward, as long as we dont sell them all :-)
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I know there is a member on here (apologies cant remeber who, sorry) that knows thwe youth setup very well but speaking to people it seems that we have a really good crop in the U18's this season and some could feature for the U23's this early.
Lets hope that this will benefit us moving forward, as long as we dont sell them all :-)
That’s good to hear that we have a good crop coming through although how many will end up in Villa’s academy is a worry. Hopefully we can’t start integrating the likes of Whitwell, Heard & Mfuamba in & around the first team squad in the next 12 - 18 months to show these kids there is a pathway to the first team.
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Blandy and Smethdan are the 2 I think.
Academy scouts deserve credit if the under 18's are still competetive given how they have been stripped out.
Kiano Dyer, Leo Cardoso, Lino Sousa, Luka Lynch, Triston Rowe and Jamal Jimoh are all under 18 as far as I'm aware and all have left the Albion academy in the last 12 to 18 months to go to Chelsea, Villa and Arsenal. I've also been told by someone who would 100% know that we are set to lose our best under 16 to a different club shortly.
If you can lose all of your top English talent and still have an exciting group, that shows just how special our scouts must be at spotting the early developers.
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Tonights U23's game against Blackburn, which kicks off in 8 mins at 6pm, is free on WBA TV
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Mfuamba scored an absolute beauty of a volley. WBA 1-0 BLA
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And just like that they equalise with a ball over the top, Cann caught in no man’s land when CBs get done for pace.
WBA 1-1 BLA.
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No Jamie Andrews in the squad tonight?
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Big let off there, sleeping at the back. Should be 2-1 blackburn
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Blackburn pen saved. Another let off.
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Blackburn get a penalty then proceeds to have the worst shot possible… twice!
1-1
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The PL2 side are as bad at the back as the seniors :D
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Now we have given away an indirect free kick on our 6 yard line. Cann picked up the ball after a backpass.
Their number 3 looks handy down their left.
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They score from it. 2-1 Blackburn, been coming.
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2-2. Neither team can defend
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I go to get food at 1-1 and somehow it 3-3.
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Ruben Shakpoke earnt a contract with that goal?
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Joe Chapman at the evening mail is quite good with his coverage of the youth sides. He has an article up confirming a few players who were left out yesterday (Andrews, Taylor, Ingram) are all training with the first team and are possibly in the squad this weekend.
He also said Kevin Mfuamba is the player the academy staff are currently quite excited by. I didn't realise he was only 16, turning 17 this weekend. Ran the midfield.a few times now from Chapman's write up.
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Mfuamba is definitely worth a contract at 17.
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Mfuamba is definitely worth a contract at 17.
Whether he is under contract or not he will be leaving the club for very little money in the near future, amazing he has stayed here this long with the bigger clubs ready to pull the trigger any day now. I believe Higgins is the next one to go also.
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Really not sure what to say if both Mfuamba and Higgins are taken in the next few months. No club in England loses every single academy talent who shows any promise. None. Not even Cat B academies. At some point you feel the FA probably need to step in to start offering assistance because they could lose an academy that's producing a number of exciting youngsters. I don't know if that's a case of offering us a better financial package or help in how to start retaining players, but it feels like it's becoming an unsustainable situation.
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Chapman from Brum Mail has posted a few articles surrounding the young 'uns:
Caleb taylor - CC will decide late in window whether to loan him out or not. CC says Taylor is used to playing in a 3 man defence, needs more time to adapt to a 4 man defence at this level. Sounds like CC is considering that he will loan him out but with a recall option maybe.
Mfuamba - Beale says he is a real talent for the future. Potential to play at highest level if keeps head down and keeps developing.
CLeary - Injury update, making good progress but still a while away from returning.
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CC is going to get some journeymen in instead of developing youth isn't he?
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CC is going to get some journeymen in instead of developing youth isn't he?
You can trust the pro's, you just have to ignore their multiple errors to do so though.
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The way to develop youngsters and keep them is to give the more promising players at least some game time and in a position to which they are suited not like with Malcolm who is not capable of playing the one up front role.Seeing one of their own playing in the first team will encourage others and they must be given time on the pitch to develop as many are not going to be instantly able to play at a higher level but will improve as they get used to the speed and ability required.Seeing their mates playing in the first team will make them more likely to stay with the Albion and sign a contract.
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Yes, just because a player has reached 28 or older and has been frequently poor/ injured obviously means Albion believe he can become a World beater.
The youth set up is just about generating a bit of income to sign a has been or never will be. From Ashworth to Pearce in just over 10 years wow (from vision to blindness)!
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Corberans team at Huddersfield consisted of a number of late teens and early 20's so completely dismisses the idea he doesnt like youth, as with most coaches, if they are good enough or better than the rivals for their position they will play, nothing to do with age.
Who are the the mistakes we have made letting go? Same discussion is had every time a young player goes, Sam Field seems to used as the benchmark, currently playing in a poor championship team, by all accounts doing well and linked with a move, (key word being linked he was linked with a move last summer and in january but is still there now) assuming he is still at QPR start of september he will be playing for a poor to average championship which is slightly below where we are now.
TGH is 22 in December, he is 4-5 years into his pro career and still doesnt have a set position.
If the players who supposedly dont get chances and get overlooked for senior players are that badly treated then surely they would prove themselves when they move on?
Recent years -
Tyler Roberts - now at Blues, same level as us, championship last season without doing mucn
Kyle Edwards - Ipswich squad player - same level as us
Rakheem Harper - Burton Albion in league one
jonathan Leko - MK Dons in league two
Nathan Ferguson - was offered a new deal, he chose to leave
Sam Field is perhaps the one who may get a move upwarss but out of 6 players thats one who may do better than us.
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Corberans team at Huddersfield consisted of a number of late teens and early 20's so completely dismisses the idea he doesnt like youth, as with most coaches, if they are good enough or better than the rivals for their position they will play, nothing to do with age.
Who are the the mistakes we have made letting go? Same discussion is had every time a young player goes, Sam Field seems to used as the benchmark, currently playing in a poor championship team, by all accounts doing well and linked with a move, (key word being linked he was linked with a move last summer and in january but is still there now) assuming he is still at QPR start of september he will be playing for a poor to average championship which is slightly below where we are now.
TGH is 22 in December, he is 4-5 years into his pro career and still doesnt have a set position.
If the players who supposedly dont get chances and get overlooked for senior players are that badly treated then surely they would prove themselves when they move on?
Recent years -
Tyler Roberts - now at Blues, same level as us, championship last season without doing mucn
Kyle Edwards - Ipswich squad player - same level as us
Rakheem Harper - Burton Albion in league one
jonathan Leko - MK Dons in league two
Nathan Ferguson - was offered a new deal, he chose to leave
Sam Field is perhaps the one who may get a move upwarss but out of 6 players thats one who may do better than us.
It's not about letting the youth go if they're not good enough - they can provide funds to re-invest in younger players who will develop but more it's about keeping the likes of Bartley, Phillips, Pieters and signing Chalobah. It just fills a squad with players who are just not going to improve and will hang around to get a payday
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I agree, but the only deal Corberan would seem to of approved Chabloah which was a mistake (Pieters is on near enough a pay as you play wage and covers two positions so thats sensible with our financial status)
Corberan i think is suffering from others decisions, if he starts approving contract extentions for the Bartleys, Reach, etc i will be concerned and surprised, his teams play with high energy and the two summer signings are both young and will get better.
I would imagine we will sign another couple of younger player before the window closes, along with Sarmiento that will show that he will use young players if they are good enough, maybe he just didnt think TGH was.
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Hopefully Beale talking about Mfuamba publicly days before he turns 17 at least means he is going to sign his first deal here.
Selling off our kids for million or two is devastating, but losing them for free is much worse
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maybe he just didnt think TGH was.
He wouldn’t be the first manager we’ve had that thought that !
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Corberans team at Huddersfield consisted of a number of late teens and early 20's so completely dismisses the idea he doesnt like youth, as with most coaches, if they are good enough or better than the rivals for their position they will play, nothing to do with age.
Who are the the mistakes we have made letting go? Same discussion is had every time a young player goes, Sam Field seems to used as the benchmark, currently playing in a poor championship team, by all accounts doing well and linked with a move, (key word being linked he was linked with a move last summer and in january but is still there now) assuming he is still at QPR start of september he will be playing for a poor to average championship which is slightly below where we are now.
TGH is 22 in December, he is 4-5 years into his pro career and still doesnt have a set position.
If the players who supposedly dont get chances and get overlooked for senior players are that badly treated then surely they would prove themselves when they move on?
Recent years -
Tyler Roberts - now at Blues, same level as us, championship last season without doing mucn
Kyle Edwards - Ipswich squad player - same level as us
Rakheem Harper - Burton Albion in league one
jonathan Leko - MK Dons in league two
Nathan Ferguson - was offered a new deal, he chose to leave
Sam Field is perhaps the one who may get a move upwarss but out of 6 players thats one who may do better than us.
Roberts, Edwards and Ferguson have all had serious injuries over past couple of years which have held them back significantly. Roberts also has 20 caps for Wales which would have been higher if not for the injuries.
Leko and Harper were always on the fringes with question marks over commitment and stamina in games so no surprise they have drifted down.
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CC is going to get some journeymen in instead of developing youth isn't he?
That had been the club mantra long before Carlos rocked up.
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Ruben Shakpoke (aka trialist from the last 2 u21 games) has signed for us on a 1+1 year deal.
Welcome Ruben!
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Ruben Shakpoke (aka trialist from the last 2 u21 games) has signed for us on a 1+1 year deal.
Welcome Ruben!
If he’s got more to offer than Clearey and Faal last season then it’s a decent extra squad option
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Mfuamba to sign deal today on his 17th birthday.
https://www.footballinsider247.com/sources-kevin-mfuamba-to-sign-west-brom-deal-today/
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Ruben Shakpoke (aka trialist from the last 2 u21 games) has signed for us on a 1+1 year deal.
Welcome Ruben!
Had a mate go to the Blackburn U21 game on Monday in which he trialled and said other than his goal (which fell to him) he offered very little.
That is of course just his opinion.
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Signed 3 year deal - official.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/kevin-mfuamba-marks-17th-birthday-first-professional-contract
Albion youngster Kevin Mfuamba celebrated turning 17-years-of-age by signing professional terms with the club on Friday.
The academy graduate - who first joined the Baggies' youth setup at the age of eight - has agreed a deal which keeps him at The Hawthorns until June 2026.
A towering central midfielder, Kevin grew up in Aston and caught the eye last season when he seamlessly stepped up to feature in Richard Beale’s Under-21s team, while also receiving his first international call-up to England’s U17s in January 2023.
And Mfuamba’s involvement in Carlos Corberán’s pre-season plans ahead of the 2023/24 season only increased excitement around the youth product’s potential - something which academy chief Richard Stevens is excited to see the prospect unlock more of this season after penning his pro deal.
Stevens said: “It’s outstanding news for Kevin and his family to be signing a pro contract on his 17th birthday, but for me as an Academy Manager it’s much bigger than that.
“I think it’s also a statement for the football club as well because we have to be an academy that show young players that there’s a path and opportunities here.
“We have to continue creating a culture now where young players want to stay and be a part of the future of this club.
“With Harry Whitwell last year, who excelled and will continue to going forwards, and Kev now it’s beginning to show you can be talented, you can be with the international team and you can stay at Albion.
“He’s had a lot to deal with while he’s been here and when you’re talented, young and get exposed early, you have to manage that carefully and as staff we’ve had to assess that.
What Kevin’s been able to do is take that in his stride because it can be difficult when you go and play in the first team for pre-season friendlies, which is a real challenge at such a young age.
“But he’s shown enough to the senior staff to prove he has high potential and he’s also managed it himself and, if he has got things wrong along the way in his game, he’s been big enough to either demand the ball again or put things right next time around.
“The values we look for in an academy footballer at Albion I see in him and I think the culture is changing here.
“If you think about role models for the younger boys at this club, in Kev and Harry, and we’ve got two good examples there and it’s great news that Kevin will remain with us.â€
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Great News. He's done well in the PL2 Side. Hope he gets a chance at some point if he keeps progressing
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Great News. He's done well in the PL2 Side. Hope he gets a chance at some point if he keeps progressing
Should do well out of him come the inevitable sale.
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When you look at the prices commanded by good young talent now we only need one of our younger players to really step up and all our financial issues are sorted for a couple of years unless we put a stupidly low buy out clause in.
The fact all monies raised this summer has come from our academy and not from player trading shows how inept our recruitment team is
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Really good news this and congratulations to Kevin Mfuamba on his first professional contract.
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It's cracking news that Mfuamba has signed a contract. Perhaps we could focus on the great news that he has signed and Whitwell did too last season so there are youngsters signing deals.
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I’ll have £50 to charity that he’ll never play a game for the Albion.
But congratulations to the lad ;D
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It's probably a crazy thought ......but maybe we are now looking to keep the cream of the crop (possibly Mfuemba, Whitewell ? ) and recoup what we can on the others. Concentrating on providing a pathway and opportunities for the best (fast-track even ::) wouldn't be a bad way to go.
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Great news that we’ve keep him, particularly if it’s against serious outside interest.
Griffiths, Whitwell, Mfuamba, and Taylor seem to be a decent crop that could really step up over the next 2-3 years providing we can keep them all. Cleary seems a strange one but can potentially be added to that list.
I used to work with a woman who’s son is at the Albion, and he was playing for England u16s this week in Italy too and I know he’s highly rated. Not sure if we will keep him though.
All things considered the kids are still the potential shining light at the club
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Great news that we’ve keep him, particularly if it’s against serious outside interest.
Griffiths, Whitwell, Mfuamba, and Taylor seem to be a decent crop that could really step up over the next 2-3 years providing we can keep them all. Cleary seems a strange one but can potentially be added to that list.
I used to work with a woman who’s son is at the Albion, and he was playing for England u16s this week in Italy too and I know he’s highly rated. Not sure if we will keep him though.
All things considered the kids are still the potential shining light at the club
I think Higgins looks a decent player too, not sure of his age but he’s another we should be looking to tie down.
I think it’s time for the older ones like Andrews and Ingram to be getting out on loan if they are deemed not better options than furlong and chalobah at this time
If Ingram is deemed the only cover we have for furlong then a recall option inserted
You can add Tulloch to that list , although I think he will end up lower down the footballing pyramid
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I watched the under 21's against Worcester Raiders a few weeks ago.
Whitwell and Mfuamba were easily our best players, one of the centre halves and the right back was decent too.
Tulloch was disappointing in that game, he played first half, considering he has had a couple of loans and was the next big thing, he didnt look interested at all, i would he shocked if he isnt paid off ot moved on before Thursday.
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Sule got a couple today for the kids who are winning 4-1 at Norwich
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Sule got a couple today for the kids who are winning 4-1 at Norwich
He’s one who looks really exciting
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He’s one who looks really exciting
Yeah he arrived here with some hype behind him, he seems capable of backing that up which is the most important thing.
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Jamie Andrews joins Grimsby Town on loan for season
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/jamie-andrews-joins-grimsby-loan
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Jamie Andrews joins Grimsby Town on loan for season
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/jamie-andrews-joins-grimsby-loan
A good move for all concerned
Hopefully he gets plenty of minutes and proves himself capable to take chalobah place in the squad next season
Also allows the young young uns to carry on playing for the under 23s
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It's good for him but i would have preferred him to be given a few games. We have too much deadwood within the squad.
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Jamie Andrews joins Grimsby Town on loan for season
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/jamie-andrews-joins-grimsby-loan
While I would have liked to see him get game time here it should be remembered he missed a lot of football during his earlier development due to fluid on his spinal cord. Time to get more minutes under his belt and see how he gets by with week to week football. I wish him well.
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We're generally pretty bad about keeping our youngsters far too long while not giving them any game time here, yet neither allowing them to leave on loan. It can't be good for their development and I suspect one of a number of reasons behind the lack of development a lot of players seem to have.
It's already bad Andrews is turning 21 next month and has no senior football beyond a couple of 1-month loans to non-league. You can look at someone like Ingram who really should have left on loan a long time ago yet at 20 has essentially zero experience of senior team football, and isn't likely to staying with us another season either.
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Goalkeeper Ronnie Hollingshead named in the Wales U21 squad along with Zac Ashworth for forthcoming games against Liechtenstein and Lithuania
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Goalkeeper Ronnie Hollingshead named in the Wales U21 squad along with Zac Ashworth for forthcoming games against Liechtenstein and Lithuania
All of the very best of luck young 'uns 8) .
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Tom Collomosse
WBA youngster Rayhaan Tulloch set to join Bradford on loan
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Fabrizio Romano
@FabrizioRomano
West Bromwich Albion right back Ethan Ingram set to join Salford City on season long loan — England U21 fullback signs now 🏴🤝🏻 #DeadlineDay
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Fabrizio Romano
@FabrizioRomano
West Bromwich Albion right back Ethan Ingram set to join Salford City on season long loan — England U21 fullback signs now 🏴🤝🏻 #DeadlineDay
He only has a year left on his deal so if he does go out on loan that will be presumably the end of his time here (as with Tulloch).
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I thought Ingram was highly rated. Obviously not or he would have stayed.
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I don't understand this. Ingram has represented England at junior level, shows promise and costs us very little. Surely loaning him to an L2 side is not going to bring much money in.
Given our financial straights, we are not likely to bring someone in who's better than Furlong and who costs more than we gain from Ingram's loan plus reduction in wage bill?
There might be someone in the PL2 side who is better rated but it doesn't seem to make sense otherwise.
Oh, we do have Kelly.
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I don't understand this. Ingram has represented England at junior level, shows promise and costs us very little. Surely loaning him to an L2 side is not going to bring much money in.
Given our financial straights, we are not likely to bring someone in who's better than Furlong and who costs more than we gain from Ingram's loan plus reduction in wage bill?
There might be someone in the PL2 side who is better rated but it doesn't seem to make sense otherwise.
Oh, we do have Kelly.
we are expecting a RB in and a medical for one has apparently been completed which pushes Ingram to 3rd in line. Would be better to loan him out or (in my head cannon) use his loan as leverage to sign Callum Hendry if BTA is sold?
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Tulloch has gone on loan again. He's 22 now, no longer a kid and clearly not going to make it here. Why not sell him, unless no one was willing to pay, of course. Out of contract next summer. Certain to be released.
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Pete O'Rourke
@SportsPeteO
West Brom forward Jovan Malcolm is a late loan target for Cheltenham Town before tonight's transfer deadline. #WBA #ctfc #DeadlineDay
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We have just signed a young lad called Souleyman Mandey from Rangers it seems.
He's posted on Instgram just, holding the shirt up.
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We must have some link or scouting setup in scotland as we signed that lad from Celtic and now this fella, have to admit unusual moves for both lads but hopefully they are good!
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We have just signed a young lad called Souleyman Mandey from Rangers it seems.
He's posted on Instgram just, holding the shirt up.
He’s Austrian, a 17 year old midfielder. Interesting
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We must have some link or scouting setup in scotland as we signed that lad from Celtic and now this fella, have to admit unusual moves for both lads but hopefully they are good!
Who was that Celtic guy again?!
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Who was that Celtic guy again?!
Esosoa Sule I think
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Latest press talk Jovan Malcolm on loan to Cheltenham .
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Ethan Ingram to Salford on season long loan done deal
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/ethan-ingram-seals-salford-city-loan-move
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Malcolm gone - done deal
West Bromwich Albion
@WBA
We can confirm Jovan Malcolm has joined @CTFCofficial
on a season-long loan. âœï¸
Good luck, Jovan! 👊
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At least as far as I can see Andrews, Malcolm and Ingram all have deals expiring in 2024 which seems pretty short sighted from the club if they're at all rated. We've been here before with Finn Azaz who we sent on loan with his contract expiring then Villa came in for him at the end of the season and he rejected our deal. If either Malcolm or Ingram do particularly well we're surely going to end up in the same situation of wealthier clubs seeing an easy profit opportunity.
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Maybe this make or break time, closely monitored and encouraged it may be possible to extend or renegotiate a new one
Either way the club benefits, if good enough they stay, if not opens the way for others to come through
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At least as far as I can see Andrews, Malcolm and Ingram all have deals expiring in 2024 which seems pretty short sighted from the club if they're at all rated. We've been here before with Finn Azaz who we sent on loan with his contract expiring then Villa came in for him at the end of the season and he rejected our deal. If either Malcolm or Ingram do particularly well we're surely going to end up in the same situation of wealthier clubs seeing an easy profit opportunity.
Agree completely. Should have effectively forced them sign one year deals with one in our favour before going out. You hear of other clubs doing this all the time
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Can STH get in tonight for free do we know?
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Can STH get in tonight for free do we know?
Not tonight no
How to follow the match
Tickets for the encounter are priced at £5 adults, £1 concessions, and will be available to purchase on the door at Keys Park on Monday night.
Free entry for season ticket holders is not available for this fixture.
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Good win vs Sheffield United (Who had 3 first teamers involved)
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The ten men of Albion under 18's lost 7-1 to Villa today. All of Villa's 7 goals were scored by players they signed from other clubs academies in the last year, including 2 goals for Jamaldeen Jimoh who left us a few months ago. Villa also fielded another kid they took from us, Luka Lynch, while 4 goals were scored by the the latest exicting Scottish talent Rory Wilson.
Shows the gaps that EPPP have started to create between the clubs who develop their own and the ones that take the cream at 16/17.
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Pipa and Chalobah start. Taylor on bench
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Free stream here : https://www.wba.co.uk/video/live?check_logged_in=1
Soon as stream appeared one of our players down and looks in some distress :(
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Alex Williams gone off injured. Josh Shaw on.
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Fulham take lead just before HT
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2-0 Fulham, switching off.
Pipa = meh
Chalobah = whats the point of him, he was anonymous.
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2-0 Fulham, switching off.
Pipa = meh
Chalobah = whats the point of him, he was anonymous.
Read somewhere that Pipa kicked the ball in Chalobah's face during the game. I don't know about meh, Pipa has the potential to be a crowd favourite with some ;) .
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Read somewhere that Pipa kicked the ball in Chalobah's face during the game. I don't know about meh, Pipa has the potential to be a crowd favourite with some ;) .
I must have been on toilet for that bit but Chalobah couldn't get near Fulhams young lads.
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Read somewhere that Pipa kicked the ball in Chalobah's face during the game. I don't know about meh, Pipa has the potential to be a crowd favourite with some ;) .
That's one way of waking him up.
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CC has said Cleary is still injured but if fit would have been sent out and sounds like will be sent out on loan when fit as not ready for 1st team in CC opinion.
Brum mail
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I must have been on toilet for that bit but Chalobah couldn't get near Fulhams young lads.
He could have given himself a chance by following them on social media like all the best people do ;D ;) .
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He could have given himself a chance by following them on social media like all the best people do ;D ;) .
Trap set 😂
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Mo Faal has got 3 in 10 games so far in League 2. Keep it up
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Cleary has scored for U21s tonight . We are leading 2-1 with about 25 mins to go
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Cleary with a second, 3-2 up with just a few minutes left
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Finished 3-2
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Cleary with a second, 3-2 up with just a few minutes left
This lad definitely knows the way to goal. It’s a gift and he’s got it.
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Cleary (11) announces his return to fitness.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/premier-league-cup-report-reading-2-3-albion.
The most natural scorer at the club.
Come on Carlos.
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Cleary's first goal is a peach, also he stuck the penalty away well too.
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Cleary's first goal is a peach, also he stuck the penalty away well too.
I'd love to see him at the very least on the bench to give BTA a break and give Cleary a chance before Maja returns. Considering some of BTA's performances I wouldn't be against Cleary getting a start.
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Hopefully we’ve got a recall option on mo fall in January he’s been getting good reviews and banging in a few goals ,as with maja out now and no money to get another one in ,he’s definitely worth getting back no worse than what we’ve got
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Anyone know much about Fenton Heard?
Assuming he's a striker, he's banged in 5 goals this week over 2 games ( I think )
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Anyone know much about Fenton Heard?
Assuming he's a striker, he's banged in 5 goals this week over 2 games ( I think )
think he's more of a CAM, but youth players tend to play all over the place so odds are there is no defined position he plays.
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think he's more of a CAM, but youth players tend to play all over the place so odds are there is no defined position he plays.
Thanks for the info. Decent eye for the goal based on this week anyway.
Hopefully he becomes one for the future as they are all I guess
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There is a long article about Fenton, published last week0 ,on the official website.
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Cleary just posted on his Instagram back within 2 months.
There is a long article about Fenton, published last week0 ,on the official website.
Thanks mate, sorry only just saw this post.
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Cleary just posted on his Instagram back within 2 months........
Just can't help yourself can you lad :P ?
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Just can't help yourself can you lad :P ?
These young uns create the content, i just parrot it back onto here ;D
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I notice the viles stockpiling of young playerspolicy is working well again. Signed ex west brom youngster Finn Azaz for nowt, sent him out on loan with the clubs he's loaned to paying his wages and have just sold him to Boro for £2m+. Not bad business to get £2m profit for no outlay, I feel we missed a trick in not trying harder to keep him.
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I notice the viles stockpiling of young playerspolicy is working well again. Signed ex west brom youngster Finn Azaz for nowt, sent him out on loan with the clubs he's loaned to paying his wages and have just sold him to Boro for £2m+. Not bad business to get £2m profit for no outlay, I feel we missed a trick in not trying harder to keep him.
WBA lack financial acumen shocker, what next ?
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Can anyone give me the low down on our youngsters who are highly rated or close to the making the break through?
Apart from the obvious Griffiths and Fellows. Whats the latest on the following:
Caleb Taylor - is he being made ready to step up when a Bartley/Kipre/Ajayi leaves?
Higgins - See his name on the bench all the time
Jovan Malcom - just been recalled from loan
Mo Faal - looks to be doing good at Doncaster
Reyes Cleary - see his name mentioned all the time - another Adil Nabi (scores for fun in reserves but never gets a shot in first team?)
Any others i've missed?
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Can anyone give me the low down on our youngsters who are highly rated or close to the making the break through?
Apart from the obvious Griffiths and Fellows. Whats the latest on the following:
Caleb Taylor - is he being made ready to step up when a Bartley/Kipre/Ajayi leaves?
Higgins - See his name on the bench all the time
Jovan Malcom - just been recalled from loan
Mo Faal - looks to be doing good at Doncaster
Reyes Cleary - see his name mentioned all the time - another Adil Nabi (scores for fun in reserves but never gets a shot in first team?)
Any others i've missed?
I don't know much about them, but the year group below those seems to have a couple:
Harry Whitwell - midfielder who we fought off interest to keep here
Fenton Heard - I might only remember him because of his first name...think he's another midfielder
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Can anyone give me the low down on our youngsters who are highly rated or close to the making the break through?
Apart from the obvious Griffiths and Fellows. Whats the latest on the following:
Caleb Taylor - is he being made ready to step up when a Bartley/Kipre/Ajayi leaves?
Higgins - See his name on the bench all the time
Jovan Malcom - just been recalled from loan
Mo Faal - looks to be doing good at Doncaster
Reyes Cleary - see his name mentioned all the time - another Adil Nabi (scores for fun in reserves but never gets a shot in first team?)
Any others i've missed?
Kevin Mfuamba, big unit in central midfield.
As for Reyes Cleary he was out injured for ages, came back and got injured again. I'll have another look at your current list of names if I get the chance later.
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Kevin Mfuamba, big unit in central midfield.
As for Reyes Cleary he was out injured for ages, came back and got injured again. I'll have another look at your current list of names if I get the chance later.
Thanks SmethDan would be much appreciated
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What about the lad from Celtic he was said to be quite handy ?
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I don't know much about them, but the year group below those seems to have a couple:
Harry Whitwell - midfielder who we fought off interest to keep here
Fenton Heard - I might only remember him because of his first name...think he's another midfielder
Fenton Heard sounds like fifa re-gen.
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Fenton Heard is an attacking midfielder who has been scoring quite a few goals in the past 12 months.
Cleary unfortunately having been out for 5 or 6 months with the worst type of hamstring injury has now done the same thing in the other leg so his season is looking a write off.
The young lad from Celtic is Eseosa Sule. He is meant to be handy but I haven't heard much about him lately.
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Can anyone give me the low down on our youngsters who are highly rated or close to the making the break through?
Apart from the obvious Griffiths and Fellows. Whats the latest on the following:
Caleb Taylor - is he being made ready to step up when a Bartley/Kipre/Ajayi leaves?
Higgins - See his name on the bench all the time
Jovan Malcom - just been recalled from loan
Mo Faal - looks to be doing good at Doncaster
Reyes Cleary - see his name mentioned all the time - another Adil Nabi (scores for fun in reserves but never gets a shot in first team?)
Any others i've missed?
Just my opinion:
Malcolm is bobbins
Faal is not going to play anywhere above league one
Cleary is very talented and if he can stay clear of injury he could play at any level
Taylor is excellent and is champ at least
Higgins is a top talent and will play first team for us at some point soon
Heard has a chance if he fills out
Sule is a long way away just like Layton Love
Whitwell will definately play for the first team
Mfuamba has great potential but seems to have stalled a bit lately
I am sure that there are loads more but it is fair to say that we have a fair few decent youngsters in the pipeline.
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I notice the viles stockpiling of young playerspolicy is working well again. Signed ex west brom youngster Finn Azaz for nowt, sent him out on loan with the clubs he's loaned to paying his wages and have just sold him to Boro for £2m+. Not bad business to get £2m profit for no outlay, I feel we missed a trick in not trying harder to keep him.
This was a massive kick in the head when I read this.
Really gutted about it.
I was hoping he would fade away to obscurity like the majority who do the dirty on us do.
It's an absolute disgrace we don't get anything for developing him for many years and gives more credence to the brentford b team.
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It is stupid that Azoz has apparently gone for £2M and we have let Gardner Hickman go for £1.3M as I understand it.
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It is stupid that Azoz has apparently gone for £2M and we have let Gardner Hickman go for £1.3M as I understand it.
I think it comes down to one thing; Villa’s bargaining position compared to ours. We are desperate for money and they’re not, and anyone dealing with us will know that.
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Not sure it makes the TGH price look silly. Statistically Azaz is out performing TGH by some distance. FA by all accounts I’ve read is one of the players of the season in the championship so far
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Nobody can tell me some of these kids aren’t worthwhile giving time to,would rarther bring some of them on anyday instead the likes of reach,that Hearn looks like he could be very good player
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I’m not getting carried away as we were playing limited opposition but you have to wonder how someone like Malcolm really struggled to get into a poor Cheltenham team
You can say the same about fellows last year at Crawley but he has come back this year and proved me wrong he looks a championship player now
Tulloch also has not been getting near the Bradford team since a change of manager
Ashworth has failed to get into the Bolton team
Ingram and Andrews both are playing for Grimsby and Salford respectively also Faal at Doncaster
Given our issues with wages how many of these are worth keeping around next season
Fellows stands out has one for sure but are Malcolm,Tulloch,Ingram and Ashworth worth keeping on who are all out of contract I believe
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Christ I didn’t know Tulloch was still with us. He seems to have been around ages, and wasn’t he almost poached by Celtic or Rangers? Now he went on loan to an Irish team and is struggling at Bradford.
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I’m not getting carried away as we were playing limited opposition but you have to wonder how someone like Malcolm really struggled to get into a poor Cheltenham team
You can say the same about fellows last year at Crawley but he has come back this year and proved me wrong he looks a championship player now
Tulloch also has not been getting near the Bradford team since a change of manager
Ashworth has failed to get into the Bolton team
Ingram and Andrews both are playing for Grimsby and Salford respectively also Faal at Doncaster
Given our issues with wages how many of these are worth keeping around next season
Fellows stands out has one for sure but are Malcolm,Tulloch,Ingram and Ashworth worth keeping on who are all out of contract I believe
I would say that Brunty needs to sort out a few of those loans, given he is our loan manager. I can't remember how many of them played for us this season, so it might be we can't recall them and send them elsewhere
Edit: So Ingram played in the Carabao Cup, but otherwise I don't think any of them have played for two teams this season
Mo Faal was on the bench in that cup game but didn't come on...does that count?
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Re: Faal, I think it does? It’s the selection that matters not if they get on the pitch.
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Re: Faal, I think it does? It’s the selection that matters not if they get on the pitch.
Faal has done quite well there apparently
Let’s see how many goals he gets come the end of the season
If we do have a fit Dike,BTA and maja next season another loan seems the bst option
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The young lads won 2-0 tonight in the PL cup. Martin Kelly started at CB.
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Cole Deeming looks a very decent prospect as do some of the others. Here's hoping they can be brought through effectively when some of their less effective apparent seniors at a higher level move on (eventually).
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Cole Deeming looks a very decent prospect as do some of the others. Here's hoping they can be brought through effectively when some of their less effective apparent seniors at a higher level move on (eventually).
Lovely finish for his goal the other night
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Cole Deeming looks a very decent prospect as do some of the others. Here's hoping they can be brought through effectively when some of their less effective apparent seniors at a higher level move on (eventually).
Yes, his granddad lives in my road. Thats my claim to fame! He has been at the club for a long time and it is nice to see him progressing.
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Heard and Whitwell not in tonights U23 squad. Might see them on bench on Sunday unless they are crocked does anyone know?
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They job shared the other night playing 45 mins each so I reckon they’ll be involved on Sunday !
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It would be absolutely brilliant if we could get a steady flow of home grown talent into the first team.
Ideally, two players a season but that may be over optimistic.
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They managed to win with a last minute goal from Love tonight without Heard and Whitwell :) :) :)
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Based on the clips I've seen Layton Love's all round game seems to be coming along very well. Good to see.
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He's a big lad that Love
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West Brom Xtra
@WestBromXtra
🌖 Aston Villa have agreed a deal to sign highly rated 16 Year Old midfielder Keilan Quinn from West Brom - Fee around £1million [@J_Tanswell
] #wba
https://twitter.com/WestBromXtra/status/1752990326199840906
Another one ! Do they scout anywhere else ?
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West Brom Xtra
@WestBromXtra
🌖 Aston Villa have agreed a deal to sign highly rated 16 Year Old midfielder Keilan Quinn from West Brom - Fee around £1million [@J_Tanswell
] #wba
https://twitter.com/WestBromXtra/status/1752990326199840906
Another one ! Do they scout anywhere else ?
Just read that on Athletic.
Why scout elsewhere when you can look 4 miles down the road!
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West Brom Xtra
@WestBromXtra
🌖 Aston Villa have agreed a deal to sign highly rated 16 Year Old midfielder Keilan Quinn from West Brom - Fee around £1million [@J_Tanswell
] #wba
https://twitter.com/WestBromXtra/status/1752990326199840906
Another one ! Do they scout anywhere else ?
Yet another one. They truly are a pooh club, can they do nothing for themselves? Have to use their ridiculous wealth to steal everything we develop
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its shithousery but if i owned a club or managed an academy then i would do exactly the same to my rivals.... its business, and there job is to build the best team they can
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It’s becoming laughable now. Even getting players from other clubs that came from our academy - 2 in 1 week and now 1 directly.
Sliver lining - £1million helps.
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Sadly the club is run so badly that selling people will potential is all we can do. We got no chance of getting fees for the likes of Reach, Chalobah, Pieters etc. Such is the nature of the senior recruitments team stellar transfer strategy.
I don't blame these kids either. Stay at an unprofessional club run by a clown or move to somewhere that's got half a clue.
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its shithousery but if i owned a club or managed an academy then i would do exactly the same to my rivals.... its business, and there job is to build the best team they can
Is that our raison D'etra then,to nurture and develope young footballer's for the vile?
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Blackburn get £22.5m for 19 year old Wharton, whilst we give ours away for peanuts in tgh and let the others go without a fight.
Makes me want to cry.
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Blackburn get £22.5m for 19 year old Wharton, whilst we give ours away for peanuts in tgh and let the others go without a fight.
Makes me want to cry.
That Wharton kid is a really good player, IMO much better than TGH.
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Wharton is a very good prospect, still going forward the club is going to have to generate significant revenue from player sales if we want to be competitive at this level, and the academy has to be part of that. Premier league clubs will pay a lot to get anyone who shows decent potential at a young age.
It's something we must do much better in. It's hard to believe Caleb Taylor would be a much worse player than Pieter's was this season for example but that's plenty of minutes we could have used to develop and showcase him gone. Obviously promotion is the goal but the long term viability of the club has to be under consideration. The quality of player we can afford is only going to keep decreasing the longer we stay at this level so we need to consider how exactly we can generate revenue consistently through player sales. The academy looks the easiest way to do this.
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That Wharton kid is a really good player, IMO much better than TGH.
I know are buying promising but unproven quality in Wharton, just like we sold TGH, there is not a over £21m difference there imo.
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I know are buying promising but unproven quality in Wharton, just like we sold TGH, there is not a over £21m difference there imo.
I am not knocking TGH but if he was that good surely a Premier League team would have took him on that fee !
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I notice the viles stockpiling of young playerspolicy is working well again. Signed ex west brom youngster Finn Azaz for nowt, sent him out on loan with the clubs he's loaned to paying his wages and have just sold him to Boro for £2m+. Not bad business to get £2m profit for no outlay, I feel we missed a trick in not trying harder to keep him.
Izzy brown,Louis Barry,Kyle Edwards …we can’t afford to keep everyone and they don’t always do so well once they run off
Personally I have a good feeling about the lads we have coming through at this point,Griffiths,Taylor,Fellows,heard,Malcolm …they can all hold there own in this league now and have much promise.
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I think the signs are good, clearly the youth department is doing a very good job of finding and nurturing young talented individuals. If we can just get the club ownership sorted and some strategy in place to actually use it to our own advantage then it could be a very fruitful avenue in the coming seasons.
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Yet another one. They truly are a pooh club, can they do nothing for themselves? Have to use their ridiculous wealth to steal everything we develop
This wouldnt happen as much if we didnt p**s of the youth system staff so much that they go to the vile and have inside knowledge of our academy to be able to pick the best ones.
I noticed that they have also just signed Lino Souza from Arsenal who is another academy player poached from us.
Until the development fee rules change this will just keep happening time after time.
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I think the signs are good, clearly the youth department is doing a very good job of finding and nurturing young talented individuals. If we can just get the club ownership sorted and some strategy in place to actually use it to our own advantage then it could be a very fruitful avenue in the coming seasons.
True enough
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I think the signs are good, clearly the youth department is doing a very good job of finding and nurturing young talented individuals. If we can just get the club ownership sorted and some strategy in place to actually use it to our own advantage then it could be a very fruitful avenue in the coming seasons.
For me it's all about having a coach brave enough to throw them into the side. Fellows for example looks a real talent but he won't start again unless Wallace is unavailable IMO.
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We have recalled Tulloch from his loan at Bradford City and released him.
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We have recalled Tulloch from his loan at Bradford City and released him.
Every penny helps. Wish they were this way with the old boys.
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99.9 percent sure there would be a recall option in there somehow. We are going to need it Pieters and especially Kelly are made of glass then the only other CBs we have are Ajayi,Kipre and Bartley.
Don’t think you can recall outside of a window, so Taylor is gone for the rest of the season now
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Getting rid of one of two current ( Ajaji being away and Kelly not fully match fit )back up central defenders without a replacement does seem par for the course when it comes to our recruitment.
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There is something particularly soul destroying about being in our current predicament and watching our youngsters who would so obviously improve our current team being sold amongst other clubs.
Getting 3m for Rogers a couple of years ago cushions the blow but the other players really hurt.
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There is something particularly soul destroying about being in our current predicament and watching our youngsters who would so obviously improve our current team being sold amongst other clubs.
Getting 3m for Rogers a couple of years ago cushions the blow but the other players really hurt.
Tell me about it. Villa supporter in our local gleefully informed me last night we're their feeder club. I can't repeat my rebuttal to the contrary in full but my reply was swift. Very.
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Getting rid of one of two current ( Ajaji being away and Kelly not fully match fit )back up central defenders without a replacement does seem par for the course when it comes to our recruitment.
Pieters played there alongside Dara most of last season
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If you are a club not receiving parachute payments developing young talent to sell on is the blueprint with a few experienced performers scattered into the team
We wasted our cash on some dreadful players, overpriced and overpaid.
A good clear out of injury prone underperforming high earners at the end of the season should hopefully give more scope for some of our younger players to progress
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If you are a club not receiving parachute payments developing young talent to sell on is the blueprint with a few experienced performers scattered into the team
We wasted our cash on some dreadful players, overpriced and overpaid.
A good clear out of injury prone underperforming high earners at the end of the season should hopefully give more scope for some of our younger players to progress
Yes, plus recruiting young, hungry up and coming talent from the lower leagues. There’s lots more BTAs out there.
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... and talent from late developers that has not developed quick enough for the impatient and under pressure managers of the top teams
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Tell me about it. Villa supporter in our local gleefully informed me last night we're their feeder club. I can't repeat my rebuttal to the contrary in full but my reply was swift. Very.
Dreadful, something like that would be the stuff of nightmares for me apart from the instant gratification of spreading claret everywhere I would have to avoid his smirking face for the rest of my days.
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Is Reyes Cleary out for the season?
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Is Reyes Cleary out for the season?
Think I read he's out until April. This was back when he got injured again. Don't have a link
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Is Reyes Cleary out for the season?
He posted on his instagram something alluding to it being a big week or 2 coming up, a week or 2 ago! He's now took it down though.
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Thanks, we’ve just signed a striker on loan from West Ham who scored for fun in the youth leagues so I don’t see why Cleary couldn’t offer the same considering he does the same (when he’s fit).
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Thanks, we’ve just signed a striker on loan from West Ham who scored for fun in the youth leagues so I don’t see why Cleary couldn’t offer the same considering he does the same (when he’s fit).
Last i heard official was what Dan said i think, back in April or thereabouts
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I may have missed it, but why no mention of how Ashworth is doing at Bolton?
He's scored in his last two games.
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I may have missed it, but why no mention of how Ashworth is doing at Bolton?
He's scored in his last two games.
because surely that should be in the out on loan thread?
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https://westbrom.com/forum/index.php?topic=9232.0
His goal a week ago has been mentioned
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Another one gone to the villa Keilan Quinn, 16 years old, deal around £1m
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-west-brom-quinn-28800322
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Another one gone to the villa Keilan Quinn, 16 years old, deal around £1m
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-west-brom-quinn-28800322
I used to get angry. Then I laughed. Now I just shake my head and don’t bother reading.
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Another one gone to the villa Keilan Quinn, 16 years old, deal around £1m
https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/aston-villa-west-brom-quinn-28800322
Beyond teeth scratchingly irritating some time ago.
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Difficult to tell at this point whether Villa even care about the signings or if its a "lovers scorned" situation from Hopcroft and Harrison. Their level of recruitment from our academy is unprecedented.
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The amount they spend is inconsequential and the potential rewards from poaching from us are high but when you consider Philogene, Chukwuemeka, both Ramseys and Archer (just of the top of my head) they’ve done far better out their own than they’ve got from us. Maybe we should try and get who Hopcroft and Harrison replaced.
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The amount they spend is inconsequential and the potential rewards from poaching from us are high but they’ve when you consider Philogene, Chukwuemeka, both Ramseys and Archer (just of the top of my head) they’ve done far better out their own than they’ve got from us. Maybe we should try and get who Hopcroft and Harrison replaced.
we stated to, if he wasn’t injured Ruben Shakpoke would be the main striker for the U21’s this year.
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I think that this bizarre fascination of Villa with taking loads of our kids season on season needs looking at. It's just coming across as petty and almost like a targeted attack now. Surely there should be a cap in place of the number of kids that can be taken from one youth set-up to another over a certain number of years to stop this kind of thing. It would potentially stop these bigger clubs from just stock-piling kids and hurting their careers, if nothing else.
On just a personal level, it just comes across as petty and immature of those at the Villa academy to keep doing this. They must be absolutely pathetic and insecure people.
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They're deliberately draining us of talent. Obviously they see a future where we don't exist and they absorb all our catchment. I like to see someone sports journo interview Hopcroft and Harrison and try to expose their motives.
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They're deliberately draining us of talent. Obviously they see a future where we don't exist and they absorb all our catchment. I like to see someone sports journo interview Hopcroft and Harrison and try to expose their motives.
A number of our academy players have come from what Villa consider to be 'their' catchment areas over the years. When Harrison was joined by Hopcroft one of them came out with a statement along the lines of 'we will never lose talent to other academies from 'our' areas again'. I posted at the time that it was a mission statement and it was.
Their motive isn't necessarily to destroy Albion's academy but if we're collateral damage while they try and dominate the local recruitment scene then so be it as far as they're concerned. Tell you what though, they must have absolutely despised Luke Dowling.
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Harrison has been left what 4 years or so ? If they are now filching 16/ 17 year olds and younger I can’t see that leaving to work with him is a direct result of how good he is/was there has to be more in play I.e agents , accountants with brown envelopes for Daddy etc.
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Harrison has been left what 4 years or so ? If they are now filching 16/ 17 year olds and younger I can’t see that leaving to work with him is a direct result of how good he is/was there has to be more in play I.e agents , accountants with brown envelopes for Daddy etc.
I'm referring to the wider picture of youth recruitment rather than than the specifics of whose mommy or daddy has been tapped up this week. It's real. It's happening and it's an ongoing process.
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they will still have contacts at all the junior levels of training camps they set up while here. so i would expect it to carry on for another 2 or 3 years at least.
the one benefit however is they can only have so many in an academy until it starts to have a negative effect so it will balance out over time.
and how many academy players actually make the grade, with the vile now pushing for champions league the level to make the team has just increased even more.
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Harrison has been left what 4 years or so ? If they are now filching 16/ 17 year olds and younger I can’t see that leaving to work with him is a direct result of how good he is/was there has to be more in play I.e agents , accountants with brown envelopes for Daddy etc.
Hopcroft was usually the one pictured with 8/9/10 year old's signing, so players he signed could still be as young as 12/13. Money will still be the big draw though I would have thought. I think there is at least one more who will be going to Villa, which will at least in part be due to Hopcroft. I won't name him but I think he is 16 now and if its going to happen it'll be in the next 12 months.
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I am not too bothered about youngsters going into another academy, so much changes between early and late teens, there will always be the odd one who goes onto better things but the vast majority dont really progess, what they do is cash in now whilst their potential and reputation is high, football is a business, its not like it was 30 years ago, a lot of lads have 'advisors' from early school age, i dont like it as football should be about enjoyment especially at that age but thats the way it is.
To give an example i am mates with the dad of one of the kids who have gone to Villa (i wont name him) both are Albion fans and he enjoyed being at the Albion but Villa approached him, he went there and they blew us out the water. He said Albion are very good with the resources they have but Villa just flexed their power, the way he was looked after, what he was promised, how he was made to feel, his head was turned.
He said Harrison and Hopcroft were both top blokes and done as they promised they would (i have worked with Steve Hopcroft and he is a good bloke) but to give an idea what we are up against, my mates son at 17, earns double what his dad does, each year that increases until he is 21.
My mate said he wanted his son to stay at Albion as he knows parents who's sons have gone to Villa and its not going to plan, he said however with the financial rewards and that his son wanted to go they went with this advisors and basically with the contract he has, he can lead a nice lifestyle (without being too OTT) and with the advisors help will be not far off not needing to work again by the age of 21 and thats even if doesnt kick a ball for Villas first team, its hard to reason against tbat.
The downside though and my mate has noticed it, is that his son has started to ease off a bit and thats what some of of the other parents have said, Villa now is like we were when we has Field, Leko, Harper, etc they were all good players for that time but its all a bit comfortable and the hunger isnt quite what it was, its not intentional but giving young lads a lot of money and security and pampering them for every one of their needs isnt good for their motivation, they think they have made it (he said the stuff Villa do for them is embarassing, they cover everything but as my mate said if they dont make it they are not prepared for the real world)
He said the coaching and pathway isnt as good as the Albion, a few years ago my mates son could of gone to any of the top english clubs as well as Athletico Madrid ans Inter to name a few (they were offered relocation, wages, etc) but after meeting Richard Stevens they were so impressed he stayed at Albion, he said he is brilliant at what he does and Stevens and the other coaches are on the reasons he wanted him to shun the money and stay at Albion but his sons head was turned.
The issue Villa have got is that they used their financial power the last few years to blow everyone out the water, the downside to that is that people then expect results and i have been told through a good works contact that Harrisons job is starting to get asked questions and unless something major happens (ie - a real breakthrough star from the lads they have poached from other teams for large fees) he will probably be gone within the next 18-24 months as part of an academy restructure, supposedly there is somebody who Villa have taken on who will ruffle a few feathers and he wants results, its not gone down too well with Harrison (similar to Dowling, what Dowling did was correct in questioning what was going on, how he went about it was where he went wrong)
I think we are in good hands with Stevens, people will always get their head turned by money but he seems well respected and i got told Fenton Heard turned down a big offer from Villa despite being a Villa fan.
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I am not too bothered about youngsters going into another academy, so much changes between early and late teens, there will always be the odd one who goes onto better things but the vast majority dont really progess, what they do is cash in now whilst their potential and reputation is high, football is a business, its not like it was 30 years ago, a lot of lads have 'advisors' from early school age, i dont like it as football should be about enjoyment especially at that age but thats the way it is.
To give an example i am mates with the dad of one of the kids who have gone to Villa (i wont name him) both are Albion fans and he enjoyed being at the Albion but Villa approached him, he went there and they blew us out the water. He said Albion are very good with the resources they have but Villa just flexed their power, the way he was looked after, what he was promised, how he was made to feel, his head was turned.
He said Harrison and Hopcroft were both top blokes and done as they promised they would (i have worked with Steve Hopcroft and he is a good bloke) but to give an idea what we are up against, my mates son at 17, earns double what his dad does, each year that increases until he is 21.
My mate said he wanted his son to stay at Albion as he knows parents who's sons have gone to Villa and its not going to plan, he said however with the financial rewards and that his son wanted to go they went with this advisors and basically with the contract he has, he can lead a nice lifestyle (without being too OTT) and with the advisors help will be not far off not needing to work again by the age of 21 and thats even if doesnt kick a ball for Villas first team, its hard to reason against tbat.
The downside though and my mate has noticed it, is that his son has started to ease off a bit and thats what some of of the other parents have said, Villa now is like we were when we has Field, Leko, Harper, etc they were all good players for that time but its all a bit comfortable and the hunger isnt quite what it was, its not intentional but giving young lads a lot of money and security and pampering them for every one of their needs isnt good for their motivation, they think they have made it (he said the stuff Villa do for them is embarassing, they cover everything but as my mate said if they dont make it they are not prepared for the real world)
He said the coaching and pathway isnt as good as the Albion, a few years ago my mates son could of gone to any of the top english clubs as well as Athletico Madrid ans Inter to name a few (they were offered relocation, wages, etc) but after meeting Richard Stevens they were so impressed he stayed at Albion, he said he is brilliant at what he does and Stevens and the other coaches are on the reasons he wanted him to shun the money and stay at Albion but his sons head was turned.
The issue Villa have got is that they used their financial power the last few years to blow everyone out the water, the downside to that is that people then expect results and i have been told through a good works contact that Harrisons job is starting to get asked questions and unless something major happens (ie - a real breakthrough star) he will probably be gone within the next 18-24 months as part of an academy restructure, supposedly there is somebody who Villa have taken on who will ruffle a few feathers and he wants results, its not gone down too well with Harrison (similar to Dowling, what Dowling did was correct in questioning what was going on, how he went about it was where he went wrong)
I think we are in good hands with Stevens, people will always get their head turned by money but he seems well respected and i got told Fenton Heard turned down a big offer from Villa despite being a Villa fan.
Thanks for the insight, I always hoped Stevens was better after Maddison and Wiilson at Cov, and hopefully we will see more quality coming through to our first team now, with TF one of many too come, fingers crossed.
I don't know as I haven't seen it or looked, but is Hopcroft taking any kids from other local academies or just primarily ours?
I know that Lino went to Arsenal and has gone there now, as he was going to be released by the gunners, but I don't hear much about others going there from the likes of Blose or dings.
Stevens didn't go back and raid cov, so it seems like Hopcoft is a desperate rat trying to prove he is better than he is. I have posted previously on this thread that their academy produced better without him and better than ours with the likes of Greasy, Ramsey brothers, Archer O'Hare then Hopcroft ever did with us and his master plan is to nick our players and build an inner city youth training facility.
The person you refer to being not happy with Hoppy must be Mochi who they got from Seville as their whatever title he got there, as i'm sure he wants results especially when they are making losses of £109m (hopefully much more next year).
The point you make about no hunger was exactly what Dowling was implying when he stopped the youth players using the entrance as first team players.
Too much, too soon.
It really hurts when they nick one of ours and has done since Ugo went, but at least we got £4m when we needed it, despite Ellis's attempts to buy out the 50% sell on clause we had.
When a youth player does what he does and goes there I am not of ilk who wishes them well. I hope they make millions whilst there but I also hope they never make it, as it means they have wasted all that money for nothing.
I sincerely hope that Tim what's his name disappears soon as he's made his money as it worries me that he will be going for millions of pounds to a bigger club, like Azaz did recently.
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I think Harrison and Hopcroft going there was a perfect storm, Dowling started to put pressure on and wanted to change things, they didnt like it and at the same time Villa were looking for people who could come in restructure their setup.
I would imagine the fact Harrison ans Hopcroft had access to players from about 6 upto 19 and were based on a few miles up the road meant it was a no brainer for the new owners at Villa, it was a ready mades setup, i think they have targeted our lads more than Blues and Wolves due to their existing relationships from their time with us.
They have had a nationwide push, they have poached players from English and Scottish clubs academies but ours has been their main supplier!
They did well out of Azaz as that has paid for him and made a small profit, he is the exception at the moment, the other lads Balis Pen mentioned who have done well either at Villa or sold on for good fees were already in their academy system.
The pressure is on for the ones Harrison and Hopcroft have poached and spent fees for, not just fees but these lads are getting paid a lot more than other lads their age at other clubs, when you operate that way it brings higher expectations.
I have no issue wity young lads going, there will be a high percentage chance that most wont make it with a small amount making a career possibly at lower levels and an even smaller amount playing premier league and being able to be an asset to the first team and / or sold for big money.
Thats the same at most big academies to be fair but Villa excessive spending at it means they need big results, cant blame the players, they get big money guarenteed at a young age and it could be all over with a bad injury or becoming unwanted a few years down the line.
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For anyone with access to Man Utd tv our u21s are on live now
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You can also watch through the official website
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/watch-albion-v-manchester-united-premier-league-2-game-live-hawthorns
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Losing 2-0 at half time to an experienced united team according to their commentators
Could have been 4-1 united constantly playing over our left centre half where we seem to be playing a high line and not pressing enough
Positive signs from Hall,whitwell and mfuamba
Our centre half harper Bailey had a first half to forget
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2 Youth players have signed their first professional contracts today, Central Midfielder Ollie Bostock (17) and Centre Back Jamal Mohammed (17, soon to be 18)
Congratulations to both of them and hopefully it leads to 1st team opportunities in the future.
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Villa were a bit slow out of the blocks on these two. Both highly rated.
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Villa were a bit slow out of the blocks on these two. Both highly rated.
Beat me to me asking "anyone know if these are meant to be rated?" 😂
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Beat me to me asking "anyone know if these are meant to be rated?" 😂
Ollie Bostock has been with us since the age of 6 !!!!!!!!
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Ollie Bostock has been with us since the age of 6 !!!!!!!!
Clearly I don't follow the kids half as hard as Smethdan suggests 😂
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Clearly I don't follow the kids half as hard as Smethdan suggests 😂
Our interpretations of hard are allegedly open to a subject of your mass debate >:( .
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Our interpretations of hard are allegedly open to a subject of your mass debate >:( .
This could easily get derailed by yourself Dan so I'll leave it there and congratulate these 2 young lads on hopefully the start of an amazing career with his hopefully!
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This could easily get derailed by yourself Dan so I'll leave it there and congratulate these 2 young lads on hopefully the start of an amazing career with his hopefully!
Ha ha. Apologies over the gloomy looking face. It was meant to be a smiley and tongue in cheek. No offence meant ;D .
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Ha ha. Apologies over the gloomy looking face. It was meant to be a smiley and tongue in cheek. No offence meant ;D .
None taken at all 🙂
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2 Youth players have signed their first professional contracts today, Central Midfielder Ollie Bostock (17) and Centre Back Jamal Mohammed (17, soon to be 18)
Congratulations to both of them and hopefully it leads to 1st team opportunities in the future.
I hope they both have a long and brilliant future with us.
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2 Youth players have signed their first professional contracts today, Central Midfielder Ollie Bostock (17) and Centre Back Jamal Mohammed (17, soon to be 18)
Congratulations to both of them and hopefully it leads to 1st team opportunities in the future.
It’s my understanding that pro contracts have been offered to a number of the current U18 group - including Evan Humphries, Archie Kirton, Ben Cisse, Adriel Walker, Deago Nelson & Cole Deeming. That’s in addition to these two plus Harry Whitwell & Kev Mfuamba who were awarded theirs as you know a few months ago. I believe (but not 100% certain) that the two lads signed from Scotland (Mandey & Sule) were signed as pro’s anyway.
If they all accept the terms and sign I make that 12 new pro’s for next season.
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It’s my understanding that pro contracts have been offered to a number of the current U18 group - including Evan Humphries, Archie Kirton, Ben Cisse, Adriel Walker, Deago Nelson & Cole Deeming. That’s in addition to these two plus Harry Whitwell & Kev Mfuamba who were awarded theirs as you know a few months ago. I believe (but not 100% certain) that the two lads signed from Scotland (Mandey & Sule) were signed as pro’s anyway.
If the Villa don't fancy them and chuck 'em a shed load of cash I make that 12 new pro’s for next season.
Sneakily edited for you Blandy ;) .
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Thanks for the info Blandy, very interesting to know (albeit Dan's edit is undoubtedly the reality).
Are there any that have particularly stood out to you? Are Fenton Heard and Layton Love part of that age group? My gut instinct says Heard will be in Villa colours by the summer.
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Thanks for the info Blandy, very interesting to know (albeit Dan's edit is undoubtedly the reality).
Are there any that have particularly stood out to you? Are Fenton Heard and Layton Love part of that age group? My gut instinct says Heard will be in Villa colours by the summer.
Heard’s already signed a professional contract last year, rejecting an advance from Villa in the process.
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Thanks for the info Blandy, very interesting to know (albeit Dan's edit is undoubtedly the reality).
Are there any that have particularly stood out to you? Are Fenton Heard and Layton Love part of that age group? My gut instinct says Heard will be in Villa colours by the summer.
Fenton & Layton are the year above these boys and as Hunnington points out, signed their first pro contracts last year. However, I’m led to believe they were just 1 year contracts so there will need to be negotiations regarding a new deal for them going forward.
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Fenton & Layton are the year above these boys and as Hunnington points out, signed their first pro contracts last year. However, I’m led to believe they were just 1 year contracts so there will need to be negotiations regarding a new deal for them going forward.
The one year deals were signed with one year options in the club's favour from memory.
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The one year deals were signed with one year options in the club's favour from memory.
That’s true but you have to be a bit careful with one year options. When you give the first contract you’re essentially saying “We’re not 100% sure about you so we’re hedging our bets”. That’s fine for a lot of players signing their first pro deal, they’re just happy for the opportunity. But if you back that up by ‘just’ adding the second year you’re saying we’re still not 100% about you - and the player is immediately in the last year of his contract.
That’s why there’s often negotiation over a new, improved deal at that point, particularly with players who are rated and may be of interest to others.
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Mo Faal scored a last minute winner for Walsall yesterday bringing him up to 10 for the season. 10 non-penalty goals for a young centre forward in their first season in professional football is good going, hopefully we can get him on a longer contract with his due to expire at the end of the season. Clearly there's something there.
For context he's one of 7 players 21 or under to have scored at least 10 league goals so far this season in the entire league pyramid, so there's not tonnes of players out their doing it.
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Mo Faal scored a last minute winner for Walsall yesterday bringing him up to 10 for the season. 10 non-penalty goals for a young centre forward in their first season in professional football is good going, hopefully we can get him on a longer contract with his due to expire at the end of the season. Clearly there's something there.
For context he's one of 7 players 21 or under to have scored at least 10 league goals so far this season in the entire league pyramid, so there's not tonnes of players out their doing it.
Yes, good for him. I do get to hear a little about him and, apparently, he is very erratic. As you rightly say though, there is something there. Could go either way with him I think.
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Cole Deeming signs 2.5 year pro deal
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/cole-deeming-pens-professional-terms-albion
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Cole Deeming signs 2.5 year pro deal
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/cole-deeming-pens-professional-terms-albion
Never heard of him but just happy to see the sentence doesn’t end with “for Aston Villa.” ;D
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Never heard of him but just happy to see the sentence doesn’t end with “for Aston Villa.” ;D
Hahah same mate.
Think this chap is rated but I have no idea really.
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Never heard of him but just happy to see the sentence doesn’t end with “for Aston Villa.” ;D
My claim to fame is I’ve seen him play, in my street! His grandad lives 50 yards from me and, when a boy, he would spend hours playing on the small grassed island in our close. Delighted for him.
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It’s my understanding that pro contracts have been offered to a number of the current U18 group - including Evan Humphries, Archie Kirton, Ben Cisse, Adriel Walker, Deago Nelson & Cole Deeming. That’s in addition to these two plus Harry Whitwell & Kev Mfuamba who were awarded theirs as you know a few months ago. I believe (but not 100% certain) that the two lads signed from Scotland (Mandey & Sule) were signed as pro’s anyway.
If they all accept the terms and sign I make that 12 new pro’s for next season.
Nice one ;) .
Hopefully a few more to follow 8) .
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Good luck to all the "new" signings, may your stay with us be long and very, very successful.
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Nice one ;) .
Hopefully a few more to follow 8) .
12 new pro’s for next season. Therein lies the age old dilemma with kids / academies, if every club signs 12 new pros a season the market is overflowing massively and many most of those kids will be have to be cast aside.
The art is recognising who will be late bloomers, develop continually and have good attitudes.
The bloated squads premier league clubs run with just exacerbates the problem as they keep the "kids" well into their twenties now.
Hopefully some of our brightest talent will come through and they have the additional opportunity of Bologna on the horizon now.
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I don't know much about Jamal Mohammed, and he's been injured, but at 6ft 5 is it way too soon for him to replace KB, even though he hasn't been on loan so probably not, but any one rate him?
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Does anyone know who the trialist was who played in the PL2 game last night?
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Bostock is not a centre midfielder he’s a winger/10. Alongside Whitwell, Deeming and Cisse he’s got a chance of making it in the pro game. The rest, let’s just say they’ll have to improve a fair bit.
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Maja and Pipa start to fight for u23s. Cleary back in squad