[frazzle]

Time will tell on Moore.

People have to remember just how bad this squad is. Pulis created it, Pardew crippled it, Moore is trying to revive it.

The lack of balance within the squad is shocking. To have 5 first team central midfielders but none with any real creative spark (not one of them can dribble with the ball in the mould of a Koumas or Dorrans). Not one of them is a true box to box in the mould of a Mulumbu. Not one of them is a Yacob style enforcer. Normally from 5 midfielders you'd have 2 or 3 who fit within our current crops attributes, but the others would/should be a specific enforcer/playmaker.

Our full backs arent good enough. Again, none of them have a clear style of play. None of them provide any kind of brilliant distribution, none have blistering pace for an overlap.

The forwards (taking out Gayle), again, what are they actually good at? What are their styles of play?

We have no target man, we have no on the shoulder CF who can burn away a defence. We have no Kevin Phillips style poacher.

All we have are a couple of decent wingers, but if we know this, then you can bet the world the opposition do. Stop our wingers, you stop Albion.

Teams will allow Brunt, Barry, Livermore, Field and Morrison all the time in the world to play sidways passes as none of them will travel forward and score a worldie like Koumas or Dorrans could. Because of this we are limited. Our wingers are marked, the full backs dont want the ball which forces us long onto forwards who arent target men or cant run in behind.

The end result is the appaling displays we have seen.

But this is not Moore to blame; its 3 or 4 succesive windows without improving the balance of the squad or looking towards a real future. Not one player has been brought into the club who we can fully build the team around.

Agreed - the knee jerk reactions are embarrassing.

[SirTonyM]

Also, the fact our priority is now to sign a right back, rather than a central midfielder, adds further evidence to the fact that he's not the right man for the job.

But we do need a right back and a couple of midfielders. When was the last time we had a good / proper right back? Pulis played Dawson (CB) there and Nyom isn’t good enough (Pulis played him at left back) before that we had Gamboa (from what I can remember).

[kie the baggie]

Agreed - the knee jerk reactions are embarrassing.

Not knee jerk mate, in my opinion that performance yesterday I felt embarrassed, no link between defence and midfield. No link between right back and right mid. No link between midfield and strikers same on the left side. Defence all over the place. Aimless balls hit long to an isolated JRod. Couldnt string 2 passes together, then looking over to Darren Moore, he just looked confused and way out of his depth. I love Darren Moore he was one of my all time favourite players, but I have no confidence that he can put a team together with some sort of identity, and philosophy. I really hope he proves me wrong as I would love for him to succeed but just cant see it. Look at the managers in this division now. They are experienced, have game plans. Tactical awareness. I do not feel this is an over reaction. I would love for someone to explain to me what our style, philosophy or identity is going to be, I dont think even the players do

[OldburyWBA]

Not knee jerk mate, in my opinion that performance yesterday I felt embarrassed, no link between defence and midfield. No link between right back and right mid. No link between midfield and strikers same on the left side. Defence all over the place. Aimless balls hit long to an isolated JRod. Couldnt string 2 passes together, then looking over to Darren Moore, he just looked confused and way out of his depth. I love Darren Moore he was one of my all time favorite players, but I have no confidence that he can put a tram together with some sort of identity, and philosophy. I really hope he proves me wrong as I would love for him to succeed but just cant see it. Look at the managers in this division now. They are experienced, have game plans. Tactical awareness. I do not feel this is an over reaction. I would love for someone to explain to me what our style, philosophy or identity is going to be, I dont think even the players do

I think there's some good points there. Its not knee jerk to criticise and be concerned about things. We've just had pre-season with the majority of this squad taking part and so we should have some idea of what we're trying to achieve. Other than the static twosome in midfield which seem to be a permanent fixture the rest is hard to see.

I don't want to criticise Moore too much but he has to be culpable for some things that are not going right, he's not totally new to this, he had games at the end of last season with no pressure on him and got the job based on it, if its true he wanted to keep the majority of the squad that were gutless, poor and got us relegated then that has to be a concern. Was it the right man for the job or the cheap option ?

Yes, its early days and hopefully Jones coming in will help and make him see things that are not working, if these same issues are there in a few games times then serious questions needed to be asked about not just Moore but those above him as well.

[frazzle]

I think there's some good points there. Its not knee jerk to criticise and be concerned about things. We've just had pre-season with the majority of this squad taking part and so we should have some idea of what we're trying to achieve. Other than the static twosome in midfield which seem to be a permanent fixture the rest is hard to see.

I don't want to criticise Moore too much but he has to be culpable for some things that are not going right, he's not totally new to this, he had games at the end of last season with no pressure on him and got the job based on it, if its true he wanted to keep the majority of the squad that were gutless, poor and got us relegated then that has to be a concern. Was it the right man for the job or the cheap option ?

Yes, its early days and hopefully Jones coming in will help and make him see things that are not working, if these same issues are there in a few games times then serious questions needed to be asked about not just Moore but those above him as well.

My point is that we have employed a young manager with no experience - and a good chunk of our fans were in support of this. Therefore its absolutely right that we stand by him as he finds his feet. I absolutely recognise some of the criticisms from the first two games but we appointed him knowing he is inexperienced and so we 100% have to support him.

To me this was always going to be the case so for people to start talking about sacking him is inexcusable in my opinion.

I also think there are many posters here who have either forgotten or never experienced the Championship. Most of my time supporting Albion has been in the Championship, and its one hell of a league. Three points is never a given and there are some talented managers in this league.

We must stick by him and be vocal in our support- I genuinely think that in a few matches time, with a settled squad and Jones by his side, we will start to see our identity.

[maccbaggie]

But we do need a right back and a couple of midfielders. When was the last time we had a good / proper right back? Pulis played Dawson (CB) there and Nyom isn’t good enough (Pulis played him at left back) before that we had Gamboa (from what I can remember).

Agreed - but we're much more desperate for central midfielders than a right back - that's what caused Forest to dominate the game, and why we failed to break down Bolton.

A failure to control midfield is a fundamental problem that will ultimately prevent us from winning enough games to mount a promotion challenge if unaddressed.

[vrabbit]

too many Pulis fingerprints still all over the roster, which may not necessarily be DM's fault, but some Pulis-like decisions are definitely a red flag. Dawson at RB is one thing, but 6'5" Adarabioyo at RB is the kind of square-peg-in-a-round-hole decision that comes straight from the Pulis book. Add to that the team's inability to find an identity going forward (and even worse, not having as strong of an identity defensively) and Big Dave definitely needs to come up with some changes SOON

[OldburyWBA]

My point is that we have employed a young manager with no experience - and a good chunk of our fans were in support of this. Therefore its absolutely right that we stand by him as he finds his feet. I absolutely recognise some of the criticisms from the first two days but we appointed him knowing he is inexperienced and so we 100% have to support him.

To me this was always going to be the case so for people to start talking about sacking him is inexcusable in my opinion.

I also think there are many posters here who have either forgotten or never experienced the Championship. Most of my time supporting Albion has been in the Championship, and its one hell of a league. Three points is never a given and there are some talented managers in this league.

We must stick by him and be vocal in our support- I genuinely think that in a few matches time, with a settled squad and Jones by his side, we will start to see our identity.

I don't join the sack him brigade but inexperienced or not he has to learn quickly, its not a game for sentiment anymore. If this was as someone said an Italian coach named whatever people would also be questioning things, we've got some experienced players in this squad who last season got us relegated and instead of a kick up the back side it seems to drifting back toward a bit of a comfortable place again when no-one should be guaranteed a shirt, not one of them.

I remember the Championship and to be honest its changed a lot since we were last there, more competitive and these players and coaching staff have to get to grips with it asap.

[frazzle]

I don't join the sack him brigade but inexperienced or not he has to learn quickly, its not a game for sentiment anymore. If this was as someone said an Italian coach named whatever people would also be questioning things, we've got some experienced players in this squad who last season got us relegated and instead of a kick up the back side it seems to drifting back toward a bit of a comfortable place again when no-one should be guaranteed a shirt, not one of them.

I remember the Championship and to be honest its changed a lot since we were last there, more competitive and these players and coaching staff have to get to grips with it asap.

Yep - fair enough. I guess my view is that he needs to pick teams, try formations etc so he can see what works and what doesn't together with Jones.Lets not forget that he's inherited a squad from Pulis where creativity and movement was actively discouraged for organisation and power, and as a result we have a midfield choc full of heavily paid and experienced defensive midfielders.

Looking at the last 6 games last season - it seemed to me that bringing Brunt into midfield worked. Looking at this season it looks like it doesn't work so well. Its what Moore does about it that's important and we need to give him time to make those decisions - we've only played two games.

Its why I'll be really interested to see how the team settles down over the next few matches once the window has closed. A combative and energetic midfielder could really change our starting eleven.

However if in 4 or 5 games we have the same static midfield and the ball in the air more than in the ground then I will join everyone and have a right old panic - but in the meantime I think its important that this forum doesn't boil itself up into a frenzy.

I'm still far prouder of what we are trying to than i have been at any point probably since Hodgson left.

For the record a midfield of Woods, Chadli, that Turkish fella, with Phillips and Barnes on the wings would do me a treat.

[Paulsammax]

I think we need to put things into some perspective here. Darren Moore inherited a squad of players that on paper looked fine but at least a season of pretty incompetent management from Pulis and especially Pardew can't be turned around overnight.
So we got relegated. Players obviously would rather move to clubs who can match their pre relegation wages (why wouldn't they?). Therefore there is still a fair bit of uncertainty around who is staying and who is leaving. Moore sensibly is being cautious with these players as they are unlikely to give their all and risk an injury calling a halt to their chances of a transfer.  Where players have left then he has signed strong replacements but they need time to play as a team.
People are moaning about loan signings. For me it makes sense. As a club we don't want to commit to buying a player who might not cut it in the premier league and therefore is a liability should we get promoted. Similarly players like Barnes would never come to us on a permanent basis in a month of Sunday's whilst we are in the championship. But if we get promoted then of course things may change.
I keep hearing that we should play the kids. When the team is as it is, it is absolutely the wrong time to bring them in. If the crowd get on their backs they are not experienced enough to deal with it. And let's face it even the best players did not walk into a team and become the finished article (remember Christian Ronaldo at the Hawthorns in the league cup?). I recall Scott Darton. When he was picked people were saying great - giving he kids a chance. He had a couple of mares in a struggling team and the fans made him the scapegoat and pretty much destroyed his career.
Finally if we expect to go to Forest who are potentially doing a dingles and expect to play them off the park then that level of arrogance belongs at Villa Park.
Rant over!

[SmethDan]

I think we need to put things into some perspective here. Darren Moore inherited a squad of players that on paper looked fine but at least a season of pretty incompetent management from Pulis and especially Pardew can't be turned around overnight.
So we got relegated. Players obviously would rather move to clubs who can match their pre relegation wages (why wouldn't they?). Therefore there is still a fair bit of uncertainty around who is staying and who is leaving. Moore sensibly is being cautious with these players as they are unlikely to give their all and risk an injury calling a halt to their chances of a transfer.  Where players have left then he has signed strong replacements but they need time to play as a team.
People are moaning about loan signings. For me it makes sense. As a club we don't want to commit to buying a player who might not cut it in the premier league and therefore is a liability should we get promoted. Similarly players like Barnes would never come to us on a permanent basis in a month of Sunday's whilst we are in the championship. But if we get promoted then of course things may change.
I keep hearing that we should play the kids. When the team is as it is, it is absolutely the wrong time to bring them in. If the crowd get on their backs they are not experienced enough to deal with it. And let's face it even the best players did not walk into a team and become the finished article (remember Christian Ronaldo at the Hawthorns in the league cup?). I recall Scott Darton. When he was picked people were saying great - giving he kids a chance. He had a couple of mares in a struggling team and the fans made him the scapegoat and pretty much destroyed his career.
Finally if we expect to go to Forest who are potentially doing a dingles and expect to play them off the park then that level of arrogance belongs at Villa Park.
Rant over!

It wasn't a rant so much as a well balanced post.

Must try harder    .

[BoingFlyer]

I think we need to put things into some perspective here. Darren Moore inherited a squad of players that on paper looked fine but at least a season of pretty incompetent management from Pulis and especially Pardew can't be turned around overnight.
So we got relegated. Players obviously would rather move to clubs who can match their pre relegation wages (why wouldn't they?). Therefore there is still a fair bit of uncertainty around who is staying and who is leaving. Moore sensibly is being cautious with these players as they are unlikely to give their all and risk an injury calling a halt to their chances of a transfer.  Where players have left then he has signed strong replacements but they need time to play as a team.
People are moaning about loan signings. For me it makes sense. As a club we don't want to commit to buying a player who might not cut it in the premier league and therefore is a liability should we get promoted. Similarly players like Barnes would never come to us on a permanent basis in a month of Sunday's whilst we are in the championship. But if we get promoted then of course things may change.
I keep hearing that we should play the kids. When the team is as it is, it is absolutely the wrong time to bring them in. If the crowd get on their backs they are not experienced enough to deal with it. And let's face it even the best players did not walk into a team and become the finished article (remember Christian Ronaldo at the Hawthorns in the league cup?). I recall Scott Darton. When he was picked people were saying great - giving he kids a chance. He had a couple of mares in a struggling team and the fans made him the scapegoat and pretty much destroyed his career.
Finally if we expect to go to Forest who are potentially doing a dingles and expect to play them off the park then that level of arrogance belongs at Villa Park.
Rant over!

Far to much sense in this post for these parts!

[westbrom3wolves0]

Best post I've seen on here for a long time.

I'm not at all confident our board has a clue about even the basics of a football team whatsoever. Too may businessmen and 'suits' involved in the game nowadays due to insane amounts of cash available.

Putting the blame solely at the feet of Darren Moore is just downright unfair.

Agreed, well articulated @miggybaggy. Couldn't agree any more, this is exactly the problem - our squad in midfield has lacked pace and any creative threat through the middle for years. It's something which is so frustrating to watch as a fan, as surely if the fans can see it ... can't the management who are paid the big bucks? I feel like we never truly replaced Jason Koumas and I'm rolling my eyes for saying it as this was a long time ago now, but I can't recall a player with the midfield engine, gears and creativity ... besides Graham Dorrans. It's pretty much 5 years since Dozza was a starter for the Albion and we are still with our slow, side to side, boring, predictable midfield.

The fact that the people that matter, seemingly cannot see this too or even more concerning, they see it but feel no need to address it is what will be our downfall for years to come. Just over 24 hours to sort it out Albion, please.

[ashdoy]

That is spot on, I'll buy you a pint for that post, we need to back the Manager not jump on his back from the off!
Never thought Albion fans could react this poorly.

I’ll take you on that offer mate 😂

[darbolina]

Championship is a tough, competitive league - be organized and score goals and you’ll be there or there abouts though eg Cardiff last season . We were awful last night but got a draw - case in point. We can’t expect wonderful football after years of Pulis then Pardew to ice the sh1tty cake, however results improving wil breed confidence and a feel good factor which will give us momentum for a promotion push and perhaps more goals along the way. We’ve done it before........and Darren Moore knows......let’s get behind him, he needs us!

[Mr Cynical]

Didn't Moore say (last week - before Rondon left) that he wanted a striker, midfielder and right back?

So, he's aware of the problems that poeple are moaning about on this thread.  Will the club back him?

[WBAinDEVON]

lets give the fella a chance, i cant see us fans ever booing or calling for his head anyway. we are in the championship for many years before we rise again. i am sure the football will improve come September and all the players have settled. good to see Darren applauding the supporters after games

[boinging_along]

lets give the fella a chance, i cant see us fans ever booing or calling for his head anyway. we are in the championship for many years before we rise again. i am sure the football will improve come September and all the players have settled. good to see Darren applauding the supporters after games

I hope we wouldn't do that, but then I never thought I'd see the day when our own fans would throw coins at the club captain.

[Fritzl Palace]

I hope we wouldn't do that, but then I never thought I'd see the day when our own fans would throw coins at the club captain.

I don't think you could refer to the people that did that as fans, they were just utter cretins. I was at Reading that day and I was as annoyed by anyone with the team and the manager because the performance was rank awful, but whoever it was that did that was subhuman, not an Albion fan.

[SmethDan]

I hope we wouldn't do that, but then I never thought I'd see the day when our own fans would throw coins at the club captain.

One 'fan' threw one coin.

[boinging_along]

I don't think you could refer to the people that did that as fans, they were just utter cretins. I was at Reading that day and I was as annoyed by anyone with the team and the manager because the performance was rank awful, but whoever it was that did that was subhuman, not an Albion fan.

I agree, but even if you ignore the coin throwing Brunt was getting way more abuse than was reasonable over that period I think (in my opinion).  Some of our younger 'fans' might not even have that much of a memory of Big Dave so, even though I would like to think we wouldn't get on his back, I'm not 100% convinced that would be the case.  We clearly shouldn't be getting rid of him and we need to give him time to bed in.

[The Joust]

I hope we wouldn't do that, but then I never thought I'd see the day when our own fans would throw coins at the club captain.

It was 1 coin, thrown by 1 kid, probably inebriated up thinking he was a big man in his stone island knock off jumper.

[Hull Baggie]

As fans we have a right to be critical of anyone at the club if we think they are making mistakes etc. It's how we go about it that is important.

If by Christmas we are in the bottom half still playing terrible football with hard to fathom team selections and tactics then I think I will be justified in criticising the management.

At the moment it is too early to be getting on Moore's back but some worrying warning signs are there.

[boinging_along]

My point is, if a fan can do that, then getting on Big Dave's back is not exactly unthinkable. 

Quote from Brunt:
“Our supporters obviously think it’s okay to throw coins at their own players. It’s absolutely disgusting,” Northern Ireland international Brunt told BBC Sport. “I am ashamed of them today.  If people come to matches and think it is acceptable to throw coins at footballers or anyone else, it is disgusting."

Let's not forget he was coming over to give his shirt away and was copping a lot of abuse, not just coin throwing.  And that's the club captain.  I just don't see why anyone would think that there's no way the fans would get on Big Dave's back regardless of form.

[boinging_along]

As fans we have a right to be critical of anyone at the club if we think they are making mistakes etc. It's how we go about it that is important.

If by Christmas we are in the bottom half still playing terrible football with hard to fathom team selections and tactics then I think I will be justified in criticising the management.

At the moment it is too early to be getting on Moore's back but some worrying warning signs are there.

I agree, he has to get until Christmas at least but I hope he starts using his substitutions a bit better.  It's an easy rod for his own back if we aren't getting results and he's not using thge squad.