126

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: June 06, 2019, 04:29:12 PM »

I too am becoming a little bored with the proceedings but to play devils advocate, it's worth pointing out that since the play-off defeat on the 14th we haven't been looking for a new manager for much longer than both Middlesbrough and Swansea.

Albion - 23 days without manager
Middlesbrough - 21 days without manager
Swansea -  17 days without manager

In fact, Middlesbrough have been aware which division they were going to be in since the 5th of May, which is 31 days and they are still searching for their next boss.

In the meantime reports suggest the current leading contender for the Swansea job is apparently the England under 17 coach, I can't imagine their fans being any more happy with a strong link to someone so inexperienced than ours.

So we're certainly not the only Championship club operating a conservative approach in our managerial search.

127

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: June 06, 2019, 10:43:33 AM »

I would guess the Dingles and Vile are. I saw the writing was on the wall when we didn't appoint Dean Smith last summer and Vile did.
I said to my mate, we will miss out on auto, Vile will make the play offs and beat us and go up. I wish i wasn't right all the time.
Now two managers we could and should have gone for, Smith and Potter are in the Prem. You watch Neil and Johnson finish above us next season.
You won't see Darren Moore making headlines anytime soon. Learning the game my backside.

Villa would have made the play-offs and had a good chance of winning them even if they had stuck with Bruce. Smith would obviously have been a better appointment than Moore but then most working managers would have been. I'm still not remotely bothered that the club didn't go for Smith.

What do Neil and Johnson have to with anything? Was an approach even made for Neil? Johnson is a Bristol City man through and through and has built a team capable of challenging for promotion. Bristol is also hardly a 'small' club, I doubt he'd even leave them at the moment for almost half the sides in the Prem.

As regards Potter, why should the club have gone for him? For finishing mid-table with a just relegated side full of ex-Premier league players? The jury is still very much out on him to say the least.

Jokanovic, Hughton and Pearson are out of work and IMO stronger candidates than any of those mentioned as well. Apart from Pearson how do we even now they would be interested in the job at all? As regards Bilic, he would be OK, but I'm not as enthused about him as I am about the other three.

128

General Football & Sports / Re: OFFICIAL CHAMPIONSHIP THREAD

« on: May 28, 2019, 05:14:15 PM »

I think the Championship is actually stronger next year.

Fulham and Cardiff have been relegated after 1 season. Clubs who do that can often be in a stronger position as they haven't fell in to the trap of having a host of premier league type players who they need to off load. They both still have the cores of the side who got them promotion last year, plus parachute payments. I'd fancy one of them to get promotion next season

Stoke also still have an interesting grouo of players and have already moved quickly to make 3 signings who are due to be announced in the next dew days. There will be financial questions hanging over them now parachute payments are reduced but I would still be looking on them as a threat next season.

As well as that, Boro are always challengers and look likely to have Jokanovic in charge next season, while Leeds will hsve another go with Bielsa.

One side i'd be less worried about is Derby. They have sold their stadium to service their debts and they have around 13 players due for loan return or out of contract next season. They can still hope that Lampard and Morris's Chelsea connections can bail them out, but with the Chelsea transfer ban this summer they might be hesitant to send players out on loan.

I agree with you regarding Cardiff, but I'm not so sure about Fulham. The season they were promoted they had a threadbare squad but were very fortunate with injuries. They also had a top quality and proven manager (for this level at least) in Jokanovic while this time they have the inexperienced Parker. Defensively they were average but the midfield of Cairney/McDonald/Johansen were so good in possession that they eventually wore the opposition wore teams down, often winning matches by the odd goal scored late on. If they hadn't signed Mitrovic in the January window I'm doubtful they would have made the play-offs that year and if they don't manage to hang onto him this summer (which is likely) then I think they could well finish mid-table.

Next season I think the main contenders, along with Albion (as long as they appoint the right manager), will be Cardiff, Leeds, Bristol, Preston, Sheffield Wednesday and possibly Hull.

129

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 26, 2019, 01:07:10 PM »

Why I don't like Cowley is 100% down to the style of play. Coaches have a base style and you should never hire a coach in the vague hope that in different circumstances that the style will change. I would also suggest that the pragmatic style in general is capped in what it can achieve and that cap is promotion from the Championship and even there I would always back a passing team over those that don't.

 Those advocating Cowley seem to be doing so on the strength of a record of sucess with Lincoln as a non-league club followed by his promotion from league 2, which is fine I was making the comparison with Micky Mellon purely on the grounds that his record is at least as impressive over a longer period. On the limited evidence Mellon's Tranmere play a decent brand of football given the limitations of League 2 .

It is purely coincidence that Mellon played for the Albion (a couple of seasons back in the day) but given that there is no long term Albion style of play that is neither here nor there. I equally don't understand why some fans think that a playing career with the Albion bars them from the role.

I am not making the case for Mellon just pointing out the case for him is no worse than for Cowley.

Exactly. There are plenty of managers in the lower divisions with records of multiple and even back to back promotions. I've made similar points to those shared by overseas baggie and still maintain that Cowley would be a terrible and (in my opinion) baffling choice.

As to his style of play, there are plenty of teams in the bottom division who play passing football, perhaps more than play any kind of 'hoofball' style tactics. Cowley played an unattractive style of play despite having a decent budget for that level and I'd expect him to continue this at whatever level he manages at.

130

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 22, 2019, 06:03:16 PM »

West Brom set for talks with outgoing Wolfsburg manager Bruno Labbadia

Suddenly, my interest has been recaptured!

Source: https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2019/05/22/west-brom-set-for-talks-with-outgoing-wolfsburg-manager-bruno-labbadia/

Yes, this is more like it.

131

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 22, 2019, 06:01:05 PM »

Worrying for us then as we have been a Prem mainstay for over 15 years !!!!

Johnson is a Bristol City man through and through and they are a club with a lot of potential. I wouldn't describe his moving to us as a sideways step, but I wouldn't say it's much of a leap up, and there's nothing worrying about that at all.

132

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)

« on: May 21, 2019, 11:44:46 PM »

London
Wages
Ambition .......

Fulham are cutting their cloth following relegation and they will be bringing a lot of their youth players into their squad next season apparently. I'd be surprised to see them offer 55k a week to bring Gayle in. As to the pull of London, Gayle obviously likes it here and with the right manager we'll have a better chance of promotion next season too......

133

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 21, 2019, 11:39:20 PM »

I don't know alot about Cowley, but its not enough just to assess on results. You could argue that Pulis's record purely based on results isn't bad. (Unless you look at the goals scored column).  I want to see decent football on the ground, where there is a place for players with skill and flair in midfield, which won't happen if they just get by-passed. Where players are encouraged to attack as a team, not with 8 players stuck back around the half way line.  Of course building a strong defence is important, but not if it means just parking the bus.
So I hope all the candidates are being assessed on their playing style. And I don't buy the line that the manager is forced to play defensive because of the players he has. That always seems to work in favour of being defensive.

Good post. I see a fair amount of lower league football and having seen Lincoln play on more than one occasion I can say I wasn't impressed. The game I saw them this season they were outplayed and were what I would describe as a very 'functional' side: big, strong, set-piece reliant. Pulis MKII. If the board are looking at that level I'd rather we appointed Tisdale the MK Dons manager. He did a great job on limited funds at Exeter, got promotion with MK this year and likes to play good football.

134

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 21, 2019, 11:25:22 PM »

The best managers usually played at low levels or not at all, like Hodgson, Atkinson, Mcmenemy, Wenger and Mourinho to name a few.
Just because they were great players like Robson, Don Howe etc desn't make them great managers.
The only worry i have with Cowley is the style of play, i hope he is a manager who can adapt to the tools he is given if you pardon the pun. That's if he comes.
I think i would sooner see him than all the other tired old names we keep hearing of.

If he turns us down then it really is time to worry.

Guardiola, Ferguson, Clough, Robson (Bobby), Beckenbauer, Conte, Capello, Ancelotti, Hiddink, Rijkaard, Cruyff, Zidane, Shankly, Dalglish, Michels, Venables, Keegan, Simeone, Pochettino, Paisley, Pellegrini, Zagallo, Low, Allegri, Zoff, Ramsey, Del Bosque, Lippi, Heynckes, Jacquet, Klopp, Schon, Deschamps, Bearzot, Trapattoni........all played professionally and almost all at the highest level.

Scolari, Mourinho, Benitez, Wenger, Sarri, Parreira, Saachi, Hodgson are outliers rather than the norm when it comes to the better managers.

135

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 21, 2019, 07:44:43 PM »

I hope we get Cowley, looking at his Wikipedia his career so far has been filled with promotions and record-breaking success in the lower leagues, Hughton is more of the same old.

Really? There are plenty of managers in the lower divisions with similar achievements that would be just as suitable. Personally I think Cowley would be a terrible appointment.

136

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)

« on: May 21, 2019, 07:41:47 PM »

Rondon's clause has already been meet by wolves, you know them lot with owners who actually have wealth and ambition.

Rondon's transfer is still up in the air. If he is sold then the club will have money to spend on new transfers. We'll benefit either way.

137

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)

« on: May 21, 2019, 06:13:20 PM »

Yeah, crazy to sign a player worth 20+ goals a season.  Madness!

It's not the player that is the issue, it's the fee. We hold the cards with Rondon. If his release clause isn't met he will be playing up front for us next season, alongside Rodriguez who I think will still be with us by then.

Any transfer funds needs to be spent in midfielders who can also provide goals which will make us a more balanced attacking side.

138

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 20, 2019, 08:08:51 PM »

Michael O'Neill, whose only previous club management experience is with Brechin City and Shamrock Rovers. Can you hear that screeching sound? That's the sound of the bottom of the barrel being well and truly scraped.

And Danny Cowley wasn't already the sound of it being scraped?

139

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)

« on: May 20, 2019, 08:07:14 PM »

This thread is quite funny

Why would we sign Gayle at 55k a week before a manager is appointed?
Who honestly thinks he would come to us over Fulham ?
Who honestly thinks we can match wages of Fulham if he did want too?
Comments about JRod and HRK being moved on to cover it , well we are already short on strikers , that would be 2 less options and no one is going to be in a rush to buy them

Course the club would welcome 55k a week sponsorship from any of you...

I agree with your first point, the board won't be making any transfer decisions before the new manager has had his say. As to your second point, I think the question should be who honestly thinks he would go to Fulham over us? Not me, I struggle to think of 1 reason why he would.

I think we could receive offers for JROD, whether they would be near enough our value of him is something else. I think we should keep hold of him anyway.

140

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 20, 2019, 07:46:29 PM »

Have seen somewhere the missing one is Lee Bowyer

He's got a play-off final coming up which if Charlton win will put him and them back in the Championship. He's also a big Charlton fan. I can't see the vacant position with us being on his radar but who knows.

141

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 18, 2019, 05:07:08 PM »

Interesting post.

Just a couple of points to make though in reply to a couple of your comments.


Danny Cowley is an ex P.E. teacher who never played professionally.


I don't see that of any relevance at all. Jose Mourinho never played professionally either.



They failed to win in half of their matches.


That is true but it's also true that Lincoln won none of their last five games and still won the league by six points. That would indicate they pretty much coasted home with the job done early.




“It’s a Lincoln City thing. It’s a conga line of giganotosaurs led by Matt Rhead, a massive hod-carrying bruiser at the front.


If you have those type of players at your disposal you need to play to their strengths.



I'm not some Cowley fanboy or anything like that but I just don't think it's wise to be too dismissive of him (and his brother of course).

Regarding the bit in bold, I've got no issue with a manager never having played in and of itself but not only has Cowley never played professionally he has only managed in the professional game for two seasons in League 2. It's too big a leap too soon.

My point was to draw a comparison between Wilder and Cowley as one had been made between the two. As you can see it's like comparing apples and oranges in terms of their experience and record and playing career is part of that record also and for good reason.

Farke was also mentioned as 'coming out of the blue', however he had managed for several seasons before becoming manager of Borussia Dortmund reserves. From Dortmund reserves to managing in the Championship is a more natural step than League 2 to Championship in my view.

142

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 18, 2019, 04:55:51 PM »

Not sure you can call a 40% win rate in his managerial career "consistently successful". Alan Pardew can better that.

Statistics are relative. Hughton has managed for several seasons in the Premier League on a low budget for that division. It's natural that this would skew his stats.

Hughton has only been managing in permanent positions for 10 years. During his career he has achieved two promotions to the Premier League and has never been relegated. Out of the three teams he's managed in the Championship he only failed to get promoted with Birmingham and he managed to get them in the play-offs. Considering the clubs he's managed I'd say he's been relatively successful.

143

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 18, 2019, 04:40:22 PM »

Danny Cowley is an interesting one if he is on the list. He would bring his brother for a start, those two work together.

Their record as a managerial team is excellent, it is really impressive at three clubs so they clearly know what they are doing.

The Championship, of course, is a step up and such an appointment would be a risk but Ron Atkinson came here from Cambridge and Daniel Farke came from way out of the blue at Norwich. Chris Wilder came from Northampton to manage Sheffield United so it proves you can bring in coaches with no experience of the Championship and still succeed.

I'm not going to pretend I know anything about Lincoln City or how they play etc but I do know they lost 7 games from 46 last season, won the league by six points and scored more goals than anyone in League 2 with the exception of Bury.

Interesting.

The way I see it is that the club need to make as good a fist of getting promoted next season as they can due to the reduction of parachute payments. We need to be making use of what advantages we still have before they are gone and for this reason I think it is imperative that a manager with previous experience of getting out of this division should be appointed. Jokanovic and Hughton are the best choices I can think of as they have each been promoted with two different clubs, each achieving this fairly recently. Remarkably in Jokanovic's case, he managed it with Fulham despite having little say in signings.

As to the Chris Wilder and Danny Cowley comparison, this is my view.

Chris Wilder had been managing for 15 years before moving to Sheffield United and moved to them when they were still in League 1. He had also had 5 seasons of League football management experience before that and had just won League 2 with 99 points and scoring 82 goals by playing an exciting brand of free-flowing attacking football. This at a club he had only moved to the previous January when they were in danger of being relegated to the National League. In his first season with Sheffield, a team which had finished 11th the previous season, he won League 1 with 100 points, playing exciting attacking football and scoring 92 goals. The following season he led Sheffield to a 10th place finish with 69 points in their first season back in the Championship, finishing only 6 points from the play-offs. Before management he had a long professional playing career making over 400 league appearances including over 100 at Sheffield United during a period when they were promoted to the top flight. He achieved promotion with Sheffield this season, his 8th full season in football league management and his third year of building a side capable of making a challenge.

Danny Cowley is an ex P.E. teacher who never played professionally. He has managed for 7 years, a mere two of which have been in the football league. He won League 2 with Lincoln last season with 85 points, playing a brand of hoofball overly reliant on set-pieces, scoring 73 goals. They failed to win in half of their matches.

Here's an article about England's set-piece tactics in the World Cup and their similarity to those used by Lincoln under Cowley.

“Did Danny Cowley win us the game?” asked James Richardson on his Totally Football Show podcast.

A member of his panel then explained: “It’s a Lincoln City thing. It’s a conga line of giganotosaurs led by Matt Rhead, a massive hod-carrying bruiser at the front.

Sounds inspiring.

https://www.lincolnshirelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/englands-world-cup-heroes-taken-1747180

As I said up top, we need to give everything we can to try and get promotion this year. Cowley would be a massive gamble to say the least and personally I hope to god he's not a serious contender to be our new manager.

144

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 18, 2019, 03:05:24 PM »

I agree... I just can't see them seriously considering anybody other than Hughton.

He's known, steady, managed at this level and won't cost them anything in compensation. Seems nailed on to me.

After speaking with a norwich season ticket holder, his style is towards that of Pulis.

For that reason I'd much rather us take a chance on a younger more exciting manager and would certainly consider non-UK applicants. The squad will have to be revamped and so this is the time for a full reboot.

When Hughton was sacked by Newcastle it seems it was an unpopular decision with their fans. I don't recall their brand of football under his management being much like 'Pulisball'. Similarly with Brighton, it may only be recently that his style of football has become more 'pragmatic' but I never had the opinion that his teams were noticeably negative before that. His stint at Norwich came when he took over with them in a relegation dogfight so this may account for the style of play at that time and it was effective as he guided them to 11th that year.

I'm not aware of him failing at anywhere he has managed (in fact he has been consistently successful) and think any anti-football style tactics may have been used only depending on the situation, unlike Pulis, who would probably play 'anti-football' if he had Man City's budget.

I would be very happy with Hughton but would just about prefer Jokanovic.

145

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 17, 2019, 04:16:23 PM »

They will choose whoever decides they want it.  Lets face it , we are not the most attractive proposition !!

Neal turned us down, I think Jokanovic has probably turned us down, even Shan is probably pleased about going back to his coaching post.

Did Neal turn us down, or just use a rumour to his advantage in his contract negotiations with Preston? We never even made an approach for him. We have no idea if Jokanovic was even approached and even if (hypothetically) he was and did 'turn it down', this could have been for any reason.

Shan has made it clear previously that he didn't want the job permanently, I see that as no reflection on the club.

I'd be very happy if either Jokanovic or Hughton got the job, with the former being my preferred option.

146

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 16, 2019, 11:24:34 AM »

Whilst Cowley at Lincoln has done very well the past few seasons, he has done so playing a brand of football similar to what Megson provided, certainly not entertaining if that's what the vast majority of fans want.

Cowley's brand of football makes Pulis look like Guardiola.

147

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Championship

« on: May 16, 2019, 10:31:39 AM »

Unbelievable.  I cannot understand where the albion fans thinking comes from.

Name me a side this season that has gone through the whole season not losing a match !!!!

Unconvincing performances but we were still the 2nd highest scorers in the division !!!

Harvey Barnes was the best player in the championship. 

Perhaps its this negative thinking from some of the fans, I do say some because not all think like that way, that has communicated to the players on the pitch.

I am sure if we were in Man City's position we would still have fans moaning, because that's the nature of the beast !!!

I'm not even sure he was the best player we had during his loan, for me that was Phillips before his injury.

A lot of people felt we would implode following Barnes' departure but I thought we would adapt and not miss his absence too much. The stats bear this out.

We had a 1.7 points per game average with Barnes and a 1.7 ppg average after he had left.

We scored 46 in 26 matches while Barnes was here and 33 in 20 after he had left. The average dropped only slightly following Barnes' departure but considering this also coincided with the injury to Phillips so I would say we managed very well without him.

What let us down all season was our poor defensive record. To keep so few clean sheets with the personnel that we had in the squad is downright criminal. The blame for this lies squarely with Moore and Jones and their decision to adopt the tactic of playing out from the back and their subsequent stubborn refusal to move away from this when it was obvious to everyone that it was often proving disastrous.

I would also add that Moore made an error by not giving game time to some of the younger players, especially in the early stages of the season. Harper and Field should have been given chances in the middle instead of Brunt and I would have liked to have seen Edwards and Tulloch given opportunities off the bench in the first half of the season.

Ultimately however the blame goes back to the board for appointing Moore in the first place when we should have moved for a more experienced manager. If they had done that then I'm convinced we would have finished in the top 2 this season.

148

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: The Squad

« on: May 15, 2019, 12:01:56 PM »

Johnstone, JROD, Phillips, Hegazi, Dawson and Gibbs are the only senior players under contract for next season that I would like to stay and see in the starting line-up next season. Of these we will only sell if we get the price we want, which will enable us to buy a good replacement for this level anyway.

JROD, Dawson and Gibbs might attract some interest but from lesser Premier clubs (Burnley, Brighton, Sheffield) but I would question whether they would want to leave anyway when they can move when their contract is up and therefore likely negotiate a bigger signing-on fee at that time. Interest in Phillips might be less due to his injury history. It wouldn't surprise me if all four playersare still here next season.

Of the loanees I would only sign Gayle, Holgate and Johansen. Fulham have taken up their option on Johansen and Holgate may find a move to a bottom half Premier side so they are likely out of the question. I could see Gayle still being signed either permanently or if not on another loan deal as part of a deal to sell Rondon to Newcastle.

Edwards, Tulloch and Rogers should play more of a part next season and could do well. On the basis off the last two games Bartley will be a good member of the squad next season also. Bond is good enough to compete for the number 1 jersey with Johnstone.

I would sell Livermore and Robson-Kanu, but am doubtful they will attract enough interest to be moved on. Morrison, Brunt and Myhill need moving on also.

Next seasons squad:

GK: Johnston, Bond

DEF: Hegazi, Dawson, Gibbs, Bartley, Townsend

MF: Phillips, Field

FW: JROD, Gayle/Rondon, Robson-Kanu, Edwards, Tulloch, Rogers

The midfield naturally needs the biggest rebuild, but overall I think we'll be in better shape come August than many are suspecting.

149

Albion Matchday Forum / Re: After Match Debate

« on: May 15, 2019, 11:31:14 AM »

To add to the decisions that went against us in the firsts leg, we had one go against us last night when we should have been awarded a penalty for handball in the box by El Gahzi early in the first half. How the linesman missed it god only knows, as bad a decision as the one not given against Abraham in the first leg.

Before the match started we were missing our best striker but we also had our second best attacking player (Phillips) not firing on all cylinders due to his lack of match fitness and having to be subbed half way through the second half for the second match running because of this. Johansen also had to come off seemingly injured and then of course we went down to 10 men with the loss of Brunt.

I have no idea why Rodriguez was taken off (was he injured?) and as he was subbed my first thought was that he was our best penalty taker and that we would rue the decision.

Before the sending off I felt we were the most dangerous side coming forward and that it would be a matter of time before we got a second, which we almost did bar a goal-line clearance by Mings from Murphy's long range shot. Their players were beginning to make unenforced errors and the momentum was with us. The sending off and the substitutions of Phillips and Johansen altered the course of the game.

For almost 45 minutes we played with 10 men against a full strength Villa side with Livermore, Barry, Brunt, Gayle, Robson-Kanu, Phillips, Johansen and for extra time also Rodriguez missing and still managed to keep a clean sheet and win the match over 120+ minutes. In fact if the play-offs used the away goals rule we would have gone through!

How close we came despite everything that went against us is hard to take. The luck wasn't with us this time and often in these sort of ties luck can be the deciding factor but we'll have our day again soon enough.

150

West Bromwich Albion FC / Re: Next manager...

« on: May 14, 2019, 12:38:55 PM »

I don't understand how anybody can advocate for a serial failure like Monk instead of Hughton who has got promotions under his belt.

Just because Monk is younger doesn't make him better.

I don't know who was in charge of recruitment at BHA, but scoring goals was a problem for them, and it is always hard to find a good, consistent scorer when you are in the prem.

He bought the Dutch league top scorer and failed, but pochetinno bought the similar vincent jansson for a similar price but he's a genius.

You are only as good as as your strikers when you are in the prem.

If he can come in and organise us and get us up we can look at it then, but he's easily the best realistic candidate out there.

I wouldn't go near Monk. He did a poor job at Middlesbrough and their fans weren't impressed with him at all. He did OK at Blues this season, but the expectations of him weren't particularly high. I'm also not convinced he could rebuild a team to challenge for promotion.

Hughton has to be one of the outstanding candidates IMO, if we don't get promoted then I would be very happy if he was appointed our next manager.