Author Topic: Dwight Gayle (at Newcastle)  (Read 234866 times)

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darbolina

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #825 on: June 17, 2019, 08:54:08 AM »
Agree, it's time for a new beginning. The club have been very very clear Gayle isn't coming back , neither is Barnes and I bet next season's starting 11 by September will have only a couple of players who were starters last season (maybe three or four max).

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #826 on: June 17, 2019, 09:07:48 AM »
It seems everyone is an accountant. Talking about wages, costs etc etc.

At the end of the day the only thing that matters to us season ticket holders is winning matches.  To win matches you need to score goals and gayle would deliver that , guaranteed.

As far as the argument about " He would be earning more than other members of the team", its a fact that the goalscorer in any team always earns the most money.  Who earns the most at Tottenham ?  Harry Kane,

If the players are on the same bonus next year for promotion, do you really think the rest of the team matter how much gayle earns if he scores the goals to get the team their bonus.

If we are relying on HRK and a new face to score the goals, then forget any thoughts about promotion because it won't happen.

Forget thinking like an accountant, its all about the goals and at the end of the day goals win matches !!!

Isn't Ozil the highest earner at Arsenal?  I think also De Bruyne is the highest earner at Man City?
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baggiemart

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #827 on: June 17, 2019, 09:08:13 AM »
I wish people would stop torturing themselves with this. Gayle isn't coming back. Even if we could afford him for this season, we can't commit to a contract that big just in case we don't get promotion. We can't afford his wages without the parachute payments (at least). Plus he'll have better financial offers.

It's not happening. The club have been clear in that. But I'll guarantee when he signs for Sheffield United, Fulham, or somebody else, there will be another meltdown.

Things have changed since we said Gayle wasn't coming back,  Bilic has arrived.  Who knows what is going on behind closed doors.  Maybe Bilic could persuade both Gayle and the board to come to a compromise.

The club had a massive boost with the arrival of Bilic. If we could get Gayle back the club would have another massive boost and would send out a message not only to the other teams in the division but also some of our other players who are thinking of jumping ship.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #828 on: June 17, 2019, 09:10:15 AM »
Isn't Ozil the highest earner at Arsenal?  I think also De Bruyne is the highest earner at Man City?

I thought it was Sterling at Man City !  I also think you will find its Jamie Vardy at Leicester.


« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 09:20:05 AM by Hull Baggie »

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #829 on: June 17, 2019, 09:12:00 AM »
It's shoddy, made up journalism like this from the Daily Mail that stops us moving on because unfortunately some people believe it. There are going to be a lot of rumours in the press in the coming weeks and most of them will be wide of the mark, this is what happens at this time of the year.

Gayle isn't going to return and it really is time this sinks in.  There is no point squabbling about it.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #830 on: June 17, 2019, 09:16:05 AM »
It's shoddy, made up journalism like this from the Daily Mail that stops us moving on because unfortunately some people believe it. There are going to be a lot of rumours in the press in the coming weeks and most of them will be wide of the mark, this is what happens at this time of the year.

Gayle isn't going to return and it really is time this sinks in.  There is no point squabbling about it.

I saw it in the evening mail so its got to be gospel !!!

skyclad99

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #831 on: June 17, 2019, 09:21:02 AM »
It seems everyone is an accountant. Talking about wages, costs etc etc.

At the end of the day the only thing that matters to us season ticket holders is winning matches.  To win matches you need to score goals and gayle would deliver that , guaranteed.

As far as the argument about " He would be earning more than other members of the team", its a fact that the goalscorer in any team always earns the most money.  Who earns the most at Tottenham ?  Harry Kane,

If the players are on the same bonus next year for promotion, do you really think the rest of the team matter how much gayle earns if he scores the goals to get the team their bonus.

If we are relying on HRK and a new face to score the goals, then forget any thoughts about promotion because it won't happen.

Forget thinking like an accountant, its all about the goals and at the end of the day goals win matches !!!

You seem to have missed the point, the rest of the Tottenham players are on Premiership wages, so although Kane may be the highest earner, you will know that Alli and co are not far behind. At the Albion, if Gayle was to come back [and he isn't by the looks of it], then then rest of the team will not even be on half of what he is picking up.

I am not an accountant by the way, but this is pretty obvious to a simpleton like me.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 10:51:03 AM by skyclad99 »
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #832 on: June 17, 2019, 09:22:46 AM »
I thought it was Sterling at Man City !  I also think you will find its Jamie Vardy at Leicester.

Dunno about Sterling I found a piece saying it was De Bruyne (might be from before any deal was done with Sterling though). The FACT remains though that Ozil is the highest earner at Arsenal and he isn't a goal scorer proving that it isn't always goalscorers that are the highest paid players in any team which you claimed was the case. Usually the highest paid players, certainly, but not always.

Just found a piece that states it's De Bruyne and Aguero that are paid the most at Man City, so one of the highest paid players at Man City is a goal scorer the other isn't.

https://sillyseason.com/salary/manchester-city-players-salaries-69071/
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #833 on: June 17, 2019, 09:24:02 AM »
From financial and tactically perspectives, he is not a viable and sustainable proposition
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #834 on: June 17, 2019, 09:32:23 AM »
From financial and tactically perspectives, he is not a viable and sustainable proposition

Keep that statement with you throughout next season.  Lets see how many games we regret not having a goalscorer like Gayle.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #835 on: June 17, 2019, 09:54:20 AM »
Obviously not all circumstances are the same, but this reminds me a bit of the Kevin Phillips saga. For the 2007-2008 season Phillips was voted Player of the Year, he scored 24 goals and we were promoted. We refused him a 2 year contract for the next season, and we and Phillips moved on. 
I'm sure some of the same arguments were being deployed then about his age, being past his best etc. and there being better striker alternatives out there. Those better alternatives mustered 6 goals (Bednar), 5 goals (Fortune) 3 goals (Miller) and 1 goal (Simpson) between them and we were relegated. 
Moral of the story: It's not easy finding those better alternatives. 
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #836 on: June 17, 2019, 10:10:22 AM »
If no other club comes in for Rondon then Mike Ashley knows that he has us over a barrel with regards wages. The guy is a business man and the longer this saga goes on we will be sweating and come pleading for a deal one to get some of our investment back and 2 to get the highest earner off the wage bill. Ashley v Jenkins only one winner so I hope Sols agent finds him a deal because there only going to be one winner if we go down the swap route

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #837 on: June 17, 2019, 10:42:22 AM »
We've signed Bilic to get promoted, not to mill around in the middle of the Championship.

We won't get promoted if we don't score goals.  It's as simple as that.

As it stands, our frontline is very very light and that's assuming J-Rod stays.

Without knowing what's going on behind the scenes (maybe Gayle is dropping his demands, maybe Ashley is dropping his price, maybe Bilic has sanctioned signing him, maybe we, or Newcastle, are getting desperate), then I don't know how anyone can say he is not a viable or sustainable proposition.




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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #838 on: June 17, 2019, 11:01:26 AM »
People are saying that Gayle being on more money would not go down well with other players.
If I was Hegazi or Gibbs I would be more pi$$ed that HRK was on £25k a week than Gayle being on £50k.

Plus unless Gayle goes round the dressing room showing off his payslip then who's to know how much he's on.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #839 on: June 17, 2019, 12:07:39 PM »
If no other club comes in for Rondon then Mike Ashley knows that he has us over a barrel with regards wages. The guy is a business man and the longer this saga goes on we will be sweating and come pleading for a deal one to get some of our investment back and 2 to get the highest earner off the wage bill. Ashley v Jenkins only one winner so I hope Sols agent finds him a deal because there only going to be one winner if we go down the swap route

If the takeover deal goes through, which is quite likely, then it won't be Ashley we deal with.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #840 on: June 17, 2019, 12:39:13 PM »
Think it's highly unlikely but, if Bilic wants him, and there is a way to make it happen, then it's a no brainer. Certainly no harm in discussing it on here, what else have we got to talk about?

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #841 on: June 17, 2019, 12:46:34 PM »
If we are getting £16m for Rondon which seems likely then I don't see why we can't  sign Gayle permanently, presuming we can persuade him to come back. His wages at Newcastle are around £2.5m a year reported, no reason why we can't negotiate Newcastle into paying us £6m plus Gayle to swap with Rondon, that would cover his wages and we could either sign him up to a 3 year deal or a 2 years plus 1 year in the clubs favour. It is certainly worth looking at as that would be attractive to the Newcastle board who are reluctant to pay fees for oldish players and Rondon / Benitez, no doubt he would be happy to sign for them permanently and Benitez likes him. It it is just a matter of whether Gayle could buy into it as opposed to holding out for a Premiership move to Norwich etc. Bear in mind as well we have already massively reduced the wage bill by releasing Barry, Morrison & others.  If / when J-Rod / Dawson get sold we get a further cash boost to strengthen the rest of the team (in addition to this years Parachute which is not that far behind last years).

My overall point is there is sufficient financial flexibility to sign him back if we really want to, of course the player at the end of the day will have the final say. I do not accept this idea that we can't afford him and would have to start laying off the tea lady etc, the figures don't bear that out when you consider what we are likely to be getting in for Rondon.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 12:48:16 PM by baggie82 »

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #842 on: June 17, 2019, 12:52:48 PM »
With all due respect, none of you are thinking long term. We could lash out a lot of money on Gayle, and what are we going to get in return? His goals do not guarantee promotion if the rest of the team isn't up to it, we saw that last season. And if we don't go back up we can't afford to keep him, so we'd have to take a loss to get him off the books.

Simply put, we can't afford to pay his wages if we don't go up and don't get parachute payments. We can't mortgage the future of the club based on signing one player, when we may be able to find cheaper alternatives.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #843 on: June 17, 2019, 01:02:08 PM »
I have read the posts on this thread with great interest. My start point is to say that I am a massive fan of Gayle. Given his record last season who wouldn't be? I have concluded however that he will not return and that this is probably the right outcome. If, as others who seem to know more than me have stated, he does not fit in with how Bilic wants to play, then why sign him? There is also the very valid point that should we not win promotion we are saddled with an extremely high salary without the parachute payments to support it.

Having stated all of the above I am extremely concerned about where the 46 goals scored by DG and JR will come from but the answer to that is for others to resolve. It will be an interesting summer once the players return that's for sure!

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #844 on: June 17, 2019, 01:16:03 PM »
With all due respect, none of you are thinking long term. We could lash out a lot of money on Gayle, and what are we going to get in return? His goals do not guarantee promotion if the rest of the team isn't up to it, we saw that last season. And if we don't go back up we can't afford to keep him, so we'd have to take a loss to get him off the books.

Simply put, we can't afford to pay his wages if we don't go up and don't get parachute payments. We can't mortgage the future of the club based on signing one player, when we may be able to find cheaper alternatives.

Cheaper alternatives come with lower expectations and lower achievements.

if we signed him on a 3 year contract, at £55K a week the total contract would cost us £2.5 mill a year, £7.5 mill over the 3year contact.  We will get £16 mill for Rondon. Probably get around £10 mill for Dawson.  So there we have £26 mill coming in, £7.5 mill for Gayle's wages leaving £18.5 mill for other players and of course Gayles actual transfer fee.  So it is achievable.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #845 on: June 17, 2019, 01:17:15 PM »
With all due respect, none of you are thinking long term. We could lash out a lot of money on Gayle, and what are we going to get in return? His goals do not guarantee promotion if the rest of the team isn't up to it, we saw that last season. And if we don't go back up we can't afford to keep him, so we'd have to take a loss to get him off the books.

Simply put, we can't afford to pay his wages if we don't go up and don't get parachute payments. We can't mortgage the future of the club based on signing one player, when we may be able to find cheaper alternatives.

1) What would we get in return: the best striker in the championship, a goal machine who is 29 this year not 34 as some of the posters imply.
2) If we don't go back up we can't afford fro keep him / we can't afford his wages if we don't go up: Not true, no reason why the sale of Rondon can't fund his wages over 2/3 years. We have already removed Barry, Morrison, Hoolahan, Mears & Myhill from the wages.
3) We can't mortgage the sale of the club based on signing one player - agreed but that's not the case, scare mongering. If Newcastle will compromise by paying us circa £6m plus Gayle for Rondon (or another club buys him at his clause and Newcastle accept £10m for Gayle) then no reason why we can't try to resign him. We have the flexibility with all parachute money, player sales, squad size.

£10m on Gayle over three years is a good investment, you get what you pay for with him. Bear in mind every chance of J-Rod going as well so that would be £26m in him and Rondon alone. The idea that the club would be risking it's financial future doesn't add up when you look at the income, player assets and wages.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #846 on: June 17, 2019, 01:39:18 PM »
Barnes, Gayle, Holgate. then our players

If Barnes was as integral as most seem to believe, then why was our goals scored record after he left no worse than it was during his loan stint? Holgate was very good, but I wouldn't say he was any better than Gibbs.

Hegazi, Gayle, Rodriguez, Philips, Barnes, Gibbs, Holgate in that order for me.

Gayle's goals are as replaceable as Barnes' were, whether by the signing of one '20-a-season-striker' or by bringing in players who can score regularly from midfield. It's also at least as important next season the defence is meaner, which will mean less goals to win games in the first place. How all this is managed is obviously dependent on Bilic's plans.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #847 on: June 17, 2019, 01:53:06 PM »
He's a proven goalscorer in this division,all other clubs would want him if he wants to come back let him I say,the money will be available where are all these 20 goal a season players coming from? Pay the man who gets the goals other players stop moaning because if we get promoted they all get a pay rise. He's a cracking player for us,forget the cost and age

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #848 on: June 17, 2019, 02:11:21 PM »
I'd love Gayle but i do think people are underestimating the rebuild. 6 loan players gone, 5 released and in all likelihood we'll lose another 5 or 6. Admittedly some of the loans and released won't be missed (Hoolahan, Mears, Montero who played next to no part in our season) but Bilic needs to bring in 6 or 7 first teamers that will challenge the first team.

If we spend X million on Gayle's wages and a chunk of Rondon's fee is gone it gives Bilic and Dowling way less wiggle room on other deals and pushes down the quality in other positions.

I'd love Gayle but it will make all other business more difficult.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #849 on: June 17, 2019, 02:17:57 PM »
He's a proven goalscorer in this division,all other clubs would want him if he wants to come back let him I say,the money will be available where are all these 20 goal a season players coming from? Pay the man who gets the goals other players stop moaning because if we get promoted they all get a pay rise. He's a cracking player for us,forget the cost and age

9 players scored 20+ goals in the championship last season, so 7 other clubs managed to have 20+ goalscorers, just maybe they aren't the rarity they're being made out to be.
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