Author Topic: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkul football  (Read 43588 times)

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BaggiePhil

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #100 on: February 29, 2024, 04:42:15 AM »
I liked what he had top say and the way he came across. Of course there are no guarantees but I am extremely pleased to have someone of his inteligence and apparent appreciation of our football club. I personally am feeling optomistic about our future and looking forward to his stewardship. COYB

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #101 on: February 29, 2024, 07:16:31 AM »
welcome to the Albion and thank you for saving our famous Football club
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #102 on: February 29, 2024, 07:38:21 AM »
Welcome, the reset button has been pressed, we start again with a good manager, an okay squad with work needed, we are at last in a good place.
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #103 on: February 29, 2024, 08:54:30 AM »
While I am as delighted as anyone about the termination of the Lai years in the wilderness I really cannot share the blind faith in our new owners.

Patel is fundamentally a business man, he has bought our club to make a profit. OK, he might have some fun along the way, but he will take his profit when he can.  The MSD loans remain, and he has made it crystal clear that it is up to the club to repay them: his input here has been to extend the loan period.  He did not say that the interest rates have been reduced, so very likely they haven't.
Until the end of June we cannot reduce our wage bill, so will continue to consume the MSD loans and I suspect there will be very little left in the kitty by then.

After June we can release Mowatt, Kipre, Chalobah, Reach, Phillips, Pieters, Kelly, Bartley and the loanees - with the option of negotiating new, much cheaper, contracts with any we wish to retain.   This will substantially reduce our wage bill, but Diangana, Swift, Wallace, Yukuslu, Dike (unless he does the sensible thing and retires) and Grant will still be on excessively high wages, and the other regulars like Furlong and Ajayi will be on higher wages than they merit in the Championship.  Ane we still owe money on Grant.  So, unless we are promoted, I cannot see us doing much better than breaking even, and we will certainly not be able to pay off much of the £50 million (?) plus interest debt to MSD.  Even in 25-26 we will still have Dike, Wallace and Grant on the payroll.

Realistically what are our chances of promotion to the Premier?  The bookies are quoting 7-1, and they are builing a profit margin into that so I think the odds are really 10-1.  Even if we do go up we will almost certainly only have one season there plus two seasons parachute money.  If we are given this opportunity it is vital that we use the premiership money to clear our debts and restrict our spending on new players to £20 to £30 million and young players with potential who fit the Corbean model.  And don't waste money on loanees, we need to develop our own players. Unfortunate3ly we have a chocolate fireguard style recruitment department, so don't hold your breath.

If we don't get promoted there will be little or no money available for new players we will have to rely on the academy, and any rough diamands the revamped (please) recruitment team can unearth.  We could increase season tickets by say £100 and attendance fees, but hat will only raise about £2 million, so that won't help much.  We are pretty dismal at attracting lucrative sponsers, this is unlikely to improve in the short term.  Money from Patel within FFP limits?  Maybe, but more likely maybe not.  We will have to get a lot smarter to prevent talent leaching from the Acadamy to Villa Park and beyond, keeping it low key until they reach 17.   We have very little saleable talent to raise funds, and what there is is unlikely to attract the attention of the premiership, and no EFL club will be in aposition to splash much cash.

I expect to see us finish in the bottom half of the table next season, with absolutely no guarantees we will be playoffs or better inn the following season(s).  The teams with parachute money will always have a huge advantage - and there will always be anything between 3 and 9 of them..... 

I really thinki that we still have 3-4 lean years ahead of us, before we can clear this monstrous debt,  and build a team able to get promoted.  Patel can certainly help by ensuring we have right management team in place to ensure the club is run efficiently and maximises its potential.

So, onwards and upwards, but unfortunately not as fast as most of you seem to think


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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #104 on: February 29, 2024, 09:19:07 AM »
So I have lost the plot.  Has Shilen Patel bought WBA Holdings therefore 88% of WBA group  - i.e. the club?

The club took out the MSD loans so that's for the club to (eventually) repay the capital and interest.  There's some rumour that SP has reduced the interest rate by extending the loan,  Can anyone (Overseas?) confirm whether this is true?

Re the Warmfront (now AH Holdings?) loan with its punitive interest rate.  Was that with with WBA Holdings?  If that's the case has this loan been paid via a  transfer of shares WBA Holdings -> AH Holdings?  Therefore SP's holdings would be now <88%.

Lai's £5M direct loan: what's happened to that?

Until I know more about the above, joy will not be totally unconfined.
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #105 on: February 29, 2024, 09:20:01 AM »
Massive relief to be rid of Lai, a horrible period for the club.

I have great hopes that the pragmatic approach Patel is talking about will suit us. We have done it before (rising from difficult times) and we’ll do it again , although maybe over a few years of solid stewardship. I have a feeling this is the very beginning of a new , long term successful period for us.

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #106 on: February 29, 2024, 09:20:06 AM »
While I am as delighted as anyone about the termination of the Lai years in the wilderness I really cannot share the blind faith in our new owners.

Patel is fundamentally a business man, he has bought our club to make a profit. OK, he might have some fun along the way, but he will take his profit when he can.  The MSD loans remain, and he has made it crystal clear that it is up to the club to repay them: his input here has been to extend the loan period.  He did not say that the interest rates have been reduced, so very likely they haven't.
Until the end of June we cannot reduce our wage bill, so will continue to consume the MSD loans and I suspect there will be very little left in the kitty by then.

After June we can release Mowatt, Kipre, Chalobah, Reach, Phillips, Pieters, Kelly, Bartley and the loanees - with the option of negotiating new, much cheaper, contracts with any we wish to retain.   This will substantially reduce our wage bill, but Diangana, Swift, Wallace, Yukuslu, Dike (unless he does the sensible thing and retires) and Grant will still be on excessively high wages, and the other regulars like Furlong and Ajayi will be on higher wages than they merit in the Championship.  Ane we still owe money on Grant.  So, unless we are promoted, I cannot see us doing much better than breaking even, and we will certainly not be able to pay off much of the £50 million (?) plus interest debt to MSD.  Even in 25-26 we will still have Dike, Wallace and Grant on the payroll.

Realistically what are our chances of promotion to the Premier?  The bookies are quoting 7-1, and they are builing a profit margin into that so I think the odds are really 10-1.  Even if we do go up we will almost certainly only have one season there plus two seasons parachute money.  If we are given this opportunity it is vital that we use the premiership money to clear our debts and restrict our spending on new players to £20 to £30 million and young players with potential who fit the Corbean model.  And don't waste money on loanees, we need to develop our own players. Unfortunate3ly we have a chocolate fireguard style recruitment department, so don't hold your breath.

If we don't get promoted there will be little or no money available for new players we will have to rely on the academy, and any rough diamands the revamped (please) recruitment team can unearth.  We could increase season tickets by say £100 and attendance fees, but hat will only raise about £2 million, so that won't help much.  We are pretty dismal at attracting lucrative sponsers, this is unlikely to improve in the short term.  Money from Patel within FFP limits?  Maybe, but more likely maybe not.  We will have to get a lot smarter to prevent talent leaching from the Acadamy to Villa Park and beyond, keeping it low key until they reach 17.   We have very little saleable talent to raise funds, and what there is is unlikely to attract the attention of the premiership, and no EFL club will be in aposition to splash much cash.

I expect to see us finish in the bottom half of the table next season, with absolutely no guarantees we will be playoffs or better inn the following season(s).  The teams with parachute money will always have a huge advantage - and there will always be anything between 3 and 9 of them..... 

I really thinki that we still have 3-4 lean years ahead of us, before we can clear this monstrous debt,  and build a team able to get promoted.  Patel can certainly help by ensuring we have right management team in place to ensure the club is run efficiently and maximises its potential.

So, onwards and upwards, but unfortunately not as fast as most of you seem to think


Pray tell, how did you get your moniker ????

You may be 100% correct, but lets have a bit of respite and enjoy the fact that Lai is gone, for a short while, PLEASE
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #107 on: February 29, 2024, 09:52:38 AM »
While I am as delighted as anyone about the termination of the Lai years in the wilderness I really cannot share the blind faith in our new owners.

Patel is fundamentally a business man, he has bought our club to make a profit. OK, he might have some fun along the way, but he will take his profit when he can.  The MSD loans remain, and he has made it crystal clear that it is up to the club to repay them: his input here has been to extend the loan period.  He did not say that the interest rates have been reduced, so very likely they haven't.
Until the end of June we cannot reduce our wage bill, so will continue to consume the MSD loans and I suspect there will be very little left in the kitty by then.

After June we can release Mowatt, Kipre, Chalobah, Reach, Phillips, Pieters, Kelly, Bartley and the loanees - with the option of negotiating new, much cheaper, contracts with any we wish to retain.   This will substantially reduce our wage bill, but Diangana, Swift, Wallace, Yukuslu, Dike (unless he does the sensible thing and retires) and Grant will still be on excessively high wages, and the other regulars like Furlong and Ajayi will be on higher wages than they merit in the Championship.  Ane we still owe money on Grant.  So, unless we are promoted, I cannot see us doing much better than breaking even, and we will certainly not be able to pay off much of the £50 million (?) plus interest debt to MSD.  Even in 25-26 we will still have Dike, Wallace and Grant on the payroll.

Realistically what are our chances of promotion to the Premier?  The bookies are quoting 7-1, and they are builing a profit margin into that so I think the odds are really 10-1.  Even if we do go up we will almost certainly only have one season there plus two seasons parachute money.  If we are given this opportunity it is vital that we use the premiership money to clear our debts and restrict our spending on new players to £20 to £30 million and young players with potential who fit the Corbean model.  And don't waste money on loanees, we need to develop our own players. Unfortunate3ly we have a chocolate fireguard style recruitment department, so don't hold your breath.

If we don't get promoted there will be little or no money available for new players we will have to rely on the academy, and any rough diamands the revamped (please) recruitment team can unearth.  We could increase season tickets by say £100 and attendance fees, but hat will only raise about £2 million, so that won't help much.  We are pretty dismal at attracting lucrative sponsers, this is unlikely to improve in the short term.  Money from Patel within FFP limits?  Maybe, but more likely maybe not.  We will have to get a lot smarter to prevent talent leaching from the Acadamy to Villa Park and beyond, keeping it low key until they reach 17.   We have very little saleable talent to raise funds, and what there is is unlikely to attract the attention of the premiership, and no EFL club will be in aposition to splash much cash.

I expect to see us finish in the bottom half of the table next season, with absolutely no guarantees we will be playoffs or better inn the following season(s).  The teams with parachute money will always have a huge advantage - and there will always be anything between 3 and 9 of them..... 

I really thinki that we still have 3-4 lean years ahead of us, before we can clear this monstrous debt,  and build a team able to get promoted.  Patel can certainly help by ensuring we have right management team in place to ensure the club is run efficiently and maximises its potential.

So, onwards and upwards, but unfortunately not as fast as most of you seem to think

You make a lot of very valid oft repeated points. Given so many of those points are indeed oft repeated I'm not sure how you've arrived at the conclusion that most posters are expecting a quick turn around. For the most part posters seem to be relieved that Lai's gone and we have a new custodian who isn't a parody.

I share a healthy skepticism of well worded sound bite interviews but it's refreshing to see an enthusiastic and articulate approach to communications. That said the proof of the pudding will be in the eating over a longer term than an introductory video. As for the MSD loan and interest rates being somewhere in the region of £50M I'm genuinely not sure about that one.
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #108 on: February 29, 2024, 09:57:00 AM »
I believe the MSD loans are 20m and 8m with interest of (around ) 10m combined to add on.


Sounds like he's negotiated a new deal with MSD though to reduce the interest rates .If he's re-negotiated them to increase the interest god help us  ;D

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #109 on: February 29, 2024, 10:02:44 AM »
As for the MSD loan and interest rates being somewhere in the region of £50M I'm genuinely not sure about that one.


Agree, I don’t think it’ll be £50m. It could be near £40m though when all is said and done.

The initial loan was £20m with about £6m in interest (depending on when instalments are due). Rumours / reports are the second loan was £8m. Thats  Probably with another £2.5m in interest. That’s £36.5m. If we’ve added a year or more on it the additional interest by paying it down slower  easily takes us close to £40m.

Like you said to the overall post though, even if a lot of what Grumpy has said is true, it’s understandable people want to believe in the new regime. Hopefully the new emperor is wearing clothes (but many accept he may well be not).

 

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #110 on: February 29, 2024, 10:37:54 AM »

Agree, I don’t think it’ll be £50m. It could be near £40m though when all is said and done.

The initial loan was £20m with about £6m in interest (depending on when instalments are due). Rumours / reports are the second loan was £8m. Thats  Probably with another £2.5m in interest. That’s £36.5m. If we’ve added a year or more on it the additional interest by paying it down slower  easily takes us close to £40m.

Like you said to the overall post though, even if a lot of what Grumpy has said is true, it’s understandable people want to believe in the new regime. Hopefully the new emperor is wearing clothes (but many accept he may well be not).

I believe the MSD loans are bespoke (not off the shelf).

The loan under Lai's stewardship carried a high level of risk, & a subsequent high interest rate.

IF, the Patel family have guaranteed repayment, then it's possible that they may have been able to extend the loan without an interest penalty.

The tone coming out from the Patels suggests that they have the capacity to repay the loan, Lai didn't, so from that point of view, I don't think there's too much to worry about.

Just to clarify on cash flow. It's not WBA's cash flow, it's the Patel's, they can inject cash over a period of time as opposed to all at once.

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #111 on: February 29, 2024, 10:39:16 AM »
if I had lent money to a business owner who was taking money out of the business, I would charge a LOT more than to someone who was going to support (invest in) the business as much as the rules (FFP) allow.

If the new rates / terms are advantageous then I think Mr Patel would be daft not to take that advantage.  (MSD backing him suggests very strongly they are better terms &  He (SP) doesn't strike me as daft !

Do agree though that successful business men are often adept at manipulating the media and healthy scepticism is not a bad thing.
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #112 on: February 29, 2024, 11:18:05 AM »
I believe the MSD loans are bespoke (not off the shelf).

The loan under Lai's stewardship carried a high level of risk, & a subsequent high interest rate.

IF, the Patel family have guaranteed repayment, then it's possible that they may have been able to extend the loan without an interest penalty.

The tone coming out from the Patels suggests that they have the capacity to repay the loan, Lai didn't, so from that point of view, I don't think there's too much to worry about.

Just to clarify on cash flow. It's not WBA's cash flow, it's the Patel's, they can inject cash over a period of time as opposed to all at once.

I wasn't suggesting a higher interest rate. A 10% interest rate over three years is less interest than a 10% rate over four years. If MSD have renegotiated, MSD are getting something out of it.

if I had lent money to a business owner who was taking money out of the business, I would charge a LOT more than to someone who was going to support (invest in) the business as much as the rules (FFP) allow.

If the new rates / terms are advantageous then I think Mr Patel would be daft not to take that advantage.  (MSD backing him suggests very strongly they are better terms &  He (SP) doesn't strike me as daft !

Do agree though that successful business men are often adept at manipulating the media and healthy scepticism is not a bad thing.

This is true, but MSD have a contract. They don't need to renegotiate anything outside the existing terms now.   If they have, their is something in it for them. That's almost certainly more money. 
« Last Edit: February 29, 2024, 11:23:22 AM by johnny Cash »

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #113 on: February 29, 2024, 11:26:08 AM »
I'm neither skeptical nor happy clapping. He's saying the right things for the fans but we know he's a shrewd businessman. Surely that's what we want though?

He's had 24 hours of having his feet under the table, not even unpacked his PJs.

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #114 on: February 29, 2024, 11:31:38 AM »
I wasn't suggesting a higher interest rate. A 10% interest rate over three years is less interest than a 10% rate over four years. If MSD have renegotiated, MSD are getting something out of it.



There are all sorts of options open to the Patels & MSD.

I imagine MSD would be interested in supporting the Patel family in other ventures, especially in the US & I could easily see MSD being helpful with our project to win business with the Patels in other projects.
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #115 on: February 29, 2024, 11:35:23 AM »

lets have a bit of respite and enjoy the fact that Lai is gone, for a short while, PLEASE
Absolutely, just don't exect it to last too long, this is the Albion we are talking about!!!


Agree, I don’t think it’ll be £50m. It could be near £40m though when all is said and done.

The initial loan was £20m with about £6m in interest (depending on when instalments are due). Rumours / reports are the second loan was £8m. Thats  Probably with another £2.5m in interest. That’s £36.5m. If we’ve added a year or more on it the additional interest by paying it down slower  easily takes us close to £40m.
Apologies, you are quite correct, for some reason I was thinking the original loan was £30m.  £40m is still a lot of money to find though,  if we don't make the greed league.

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #116 on: February 29, 2024, 12:22:00 PM »
You really ought to get around to watching his introductory video. I have and he mentions the word football on a number of occasions.


and doesn't use the word "soccer" once either!
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #117 on: February 29, 2024, 12:52:49 PM »
Well grumpy, you certainly cheered me up :'( A well earned moniker if ever there was one. I'm not saying that you are wrong in most of what you have written but lets have at least a short period to feel happy about the takeover, please!!
« Last Edit: February 29, 2024, 01:11:17 PM by KN22 »

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #118 on: February 29, 2024, 01:58:03 PM »
You really ought to get around to watching his introductory video. I have and he mentions the word football on a number of occasions.
That's fine then but don't call American Soccer again. Blues new owners did do worse calling it the English Version of Football as if ours and there version of Football are the same there nowhere near close
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #119 on: February 29, 2024, 02:16:43 PM »
That's fine then but don't call American Soccer again. Blues new owners did do worse calling it the English Version of Football as if ours and their version of Football are the same there nowhere near close

I didn't call it soccer in the first place, and neither did SP during the introductory video. Seems like you got yourself all worked up over nothing really. So have you watched it yet ;D ?
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #120 on: February 29, 2024, 02:51:20 PM »
The term soccer is actually a term invented in Britain at the start of association football to differentiate between football and rugby, it was taken on by America and other countries as it spread around the world.

So don’t feel to bad when you hear someone calling our beloved football, soccer.

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #121 on: February 29, 2024, 03:38:18 PM »
Yes when I were a lad in the late 50s, commentators frequently used "soccer".  It might even be construed as post-colonial arrogance to insist that association football is the only type of football.
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #122 on: February 29, 2024, 03:56:14 PM »
What we have all hoped and prayed for has come to pass.
The new owners seem to have been  the best option available from the interests that were bidding.
The sword of Damocles seems to have been removed and our finances look manageable.
The new owner seems genuinely interested and seems to have a long term plan in mind.
At this moment in time that is arguably the best we could have seriously hoped for.
Perhaps the acquisition by an Arabian Multi Billionaire and the simultaneous announcement of a BTA engagement to Taylor Swift may have been an upgrade, but we are where we are now.  Lets go !

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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #123 on: February 29, 2024, 04:34:00 PM »
Excuse me while I clutch my beads the nasty man said so**cer (except he hasn't thus far), really the guy is underwriting operating losses of £2m a month at your flat broke goddamn so**cer club and what he calls your game of kickball is a concern? 
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Re: WBA NEW OWNERS - Bilkull football
« Reply #124 on: February 29, 2024, 05:13:09 PM »
Excuse me while I clutch my beads the nasty man said so**cer (except he hasn't thus far), really the guy is underwriting operating losses of £2m a month at your flat broke goddamn so**cer club and what he calls your game of kickball is a concern?

Yow wudnt call a pint of Bathams lager wud ya?
Yow wudnt call Bramwich, smerrick wud ya?
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Dow yow gerrit? we dow want sum fancy dan septic tank mekkin we lot sound thik dun we?

Plain as the nose on me ferce innit !

Ow an while I'm onnit, Oldbury can yow change the fust tab on the top to hum, ta cocker !
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