Author Topic: So was our last decade a success?  (Read 10843 times)

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east-stand-nick

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #25 on: April 15, 2018, 08:15:55 PM »
No. You're in football to have a go at winning things, not making up the numbers which is exactly what we've done in all competitions pretty much every season.

Unless you count mid-table finishes and giving up after 40 points a success.

baggie38

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #26 on: April 15, 2018, 08:40:28 PM »
The biggest annoyance to me is that we have never really had a good go at a cup. Some seasons we had a good opportunity to compete. Yet we either fielded a weaker side or we just didn't turn up. Let's go down dust ourselves off and come back up and have a good go at a cup please.

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #27 on: April 16, 2018, 12:54:13 PM »
I think if you judge it against the 10 years prior to that, then you can consider it a qualified success; we have had a decent spell in the top flight, won some games against big teams. Obviously it's not an unbridled success because we haven't followed that up with cup success or European football.

If you judge it against our entire history, then it's quite mediocre.

Judging it against other teams is difficult; Portsmouth have won a cup and we haven't, but then we haven't played league 2 football either.

If anything it's a missed opportunity; we are essentially where we were 10 years ago, only having spent a hell of a lot of money in the interim.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2018, 12:55:50 PM by FallOutBoy »

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #28 on: April 18, 2018, 11:44:03 AM »
NO, my reason is we never built our team to climb the table we only built to survive on & off the pitch. No ambition

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #29 on: April 18, 2018, 12:07:25 PM »
As a business I would say we have been successful, what are we 17th richest club in the world?
Unfortunately that's what it is, a business.
Football is secondary and takes a back seat at our club.
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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #30 on: April 18, 2018, 12:10:38 PM »
Majorly when i compare it to the previous 10 years.

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #31 on: April 18, 2018, 02:20:24 PM »
No cup finals let alone a win, no trips to Europe.

We've merely made up the numbers.

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #32 on: April 18, 2018, 02:22:45 PM »
No cup finals let alone a win, no trips to Europe.

We've merely made up the numbers.

it's been like that since the 80's, not just the last decade.
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DaveWBA

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #33 on: April 18, 2018, 02:48:06 PM »
it's been like that since the 80's, not just the last decade.

Blues and Wigan have had better stints in the PL than us in the past decade and they've only been in it 8 seasons between them.

We had an excellent chance to finish as Burnley are once we got to 40 points last year, unfortunately for us the cap twonk threw in the towel and now we're all off to wetting Shrewsbury.

Signor_Maresca

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #34 on: April 18, 2018, 02:53:37 PM »
Yes the last decade has been a huge success.  We established ourselves as Premier League club; we became one of the richest clubs in the world, our academy was awarded category one status, our training ground improved tenfold and we had the pleasure of watching some massively talented players don the stripes.  As fans we’ve had some great days and many of them away from home; historic victories at Old Trafford, The Emirates, White Heart Lane, Anfield, Villa Park, Molineux (1-5), Goodison and The Britannia (finally!) will live long in the memory.

Surprised some aren’t so appreciative.   The 90’s were chronic; having to sell our best players just to stay afloat, renting a pitch of Aston University because we didn’t have a training ground, a thread bare centre of excellence, attendances south of 12,000, shockingly average players and  even worse managers..   So yes the last 10 years have been, by and large, pretty fantastic.

It’s a shame what has happened over the last year or two, we’ve stagnated and have paid the price. It’s also frustrating that we were unable to grow the club at a time when we were the only Premier League club in the region.  To think we lost almost 15% of season ticket holders during this period is a travesty but when you sell your soul to the likes of Tony Pulis there will always be long lasting repercussions.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 02:59:37 PM by Signor_Maresca »
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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #35 on: April 18, 2018, 03:12:45 PM »
Yes the last decade has been a huge success.  We established ourselves as Premier League club; we became one of the richest clubs in the world, our academy was awarded category one status, our training ground improved tenfold and we had the pleasure of watching some massively talented players don the stripes.  As fans we’ve had some great days and many of them away from home; historic victories at Old Trafford, The Emirates, White Heart Lane, Anfield, Villa Park, Molineux (1-5), Goodison and The Britannia (finally!) will live long in the memory.

Surprised some aren’t so appreciative.   The 90’s were chronic; having to sell our best players just to stay afloat, renting a pitch of Aston University because we didn’t have a training ground, a thread bare centre of excellence, attendances south of 12,000, shockingly average players and  even worse managers..   So yes the last 10 years have been, by and large, pretty fantastic.

It’s a shame what has happened over the last year or two, we’ve stagnated and have paid the price. It’s also frustrating that we were unable to grow the club at a time when we were the only Premier League club in the region.  To think we lost almost 15% of season ticket holders during this period is a travesty but when you sell your soul to the likes of Tony Pulis there will always be long lasting repercussions.

I agree with your assessment SM, the answer to the question posed in the thread is 'yes it has been successful', but it could have been a lot more successful towards the latter part. A bit like getting 5 numbers on your lottery ticket and realising that if the sixth number had come in, it would have been so much better.

Financially we are in a better place [ie: not £50m+ in debt] and we have/had established ourselves as a Premier League club. Hopefully when we do go down, we will restructure and come back with a plan that goes beyond survival for money, which is what we seem to have been doing recently. 
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 06:52:23 AM by skyclad99 »
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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #36 on: April 18, 2018, 05:29:16 PM »
Agreed, brilliant post, Signor Maresca. Put it all in perspective.
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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #37 on: April 19, 2018, 06:36:49 AM »
Blues and Wigan have had better stints in the PL than us in the past decade and they've only been in it 8 seasons between them.

We had an excellent chance to finish as Burnley are once we got to 40 points last year, unfortunately for us the cap twonk threw in the towel and now we're all off to wetting Shrewsbury.

The post was about how successful has our last decade been not how successful compared to other teams, so what blues and Wigan have done is irrelevant.
 Both Clubs have never finished higher than 10th in the premier league whereas we have finished as high as 8th so not sure how they've had "more successful stints in the premier league than us".
Winning the cups and getting into Europe has no bearing on how successful they were in the premier league as they could have won those competitions in any league and in fact both clubs were relegated in the season that they won their respective cups and yet we stayed in the premier league.

I agree that we missed a great opportunity last season and we should have finished at least 8th and broke the 50 point barrier with ease, giving us an opportunity to consolidate our place in the top half of the table this season.
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 07:53:30 AM by Hull Baggie »
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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #38 on: April 19, 2018, 07:49:34 AM »
most definitely a success, measure it against the decade before! it's taken a long time to get to where we are but with many clubs it can all be undone with one bad season. we will return.

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #39 on: April 19, 2018, 08:16:32 AM »
As a fan, I don't think that things such as revenues, balance sheet, training facilities etc matter when measuring success.  They matter to owners and other stakeholders (players/agents/ bankers et al) but not us.  We don't go off to the pub at lunchtime on a Saturday tingling with excitement about an improved gross margin.

My measure is a simple one; has it been fun?  With the exception of the initial newness, the odd win over the Dingles/ Seals/ Top 6, it hasn't been fun.   

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #40 on: April 19, 2018, 09:24:26 AM »
As a fan, I don't think that things such as revenues, balance sheet, training facilities etc matter when measuring success.  They matter to owners and other stakeholders (players/agents/ bankers et al) but not us.  We don't go off to the pub at lunchtime on a Saturday tingling with excitement about an improved gross margin.

My measure is a simple one; has it been fun?  With the exception of the initial newness, the odd win over the Dingles/ Seals/ Top 6, it hasn't been fun.

Spot on. The general levels of atmosphere at the albion have declined as the football served up has become monotonous and lacking in skill/attacking flair. Not to mention the over-zealous stewarding. It used to be great fun down the Hawthorns, now it isn't.

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #41 on: April 19, 2018, 09:37:52 AM »
The post was about how successful has our last decade been not how successful compared to other teams, so what blues and Wigan have done is irrelevant.
 Both Clubs have never finished higher than 10th in the premier league whereas we have finished as high as 8th so not sure how they've had "more successful stints in the premier league than us".
Winning the cups and getting into Europe has no bearing on how successful they were in the premier league as they could have won those competitions in any league and in fact both clubs were relegated in the season that they won their respective cups and yet we stayed in the premier league.

I agree that we missed a great opportunity last season and we should have finished at least 8th and broke the 50 point barrier with ease, giving us an opportunity to consolidate our place in the top half of the table this season.

That's just the evidence to suggest we haven't been successful, if we're basing success on having a nice training ground and enjoying winning a few games then next season will also be a success regardless of where we finish.

Truth is the PL in the past 7/8 seasons especially has become so devoid of life behind the top sides that you could relegate any 3 of 12 teams each season and it would make absolutely no difference whatsoever. In truth the only way to lay a glove on the top sides is to finish in the top four, which was never going to happen or win a cup, which we made no effort to do. We've stood still so long that we've been overtaken by Brighton, Bournemouth and Huddersfield.

Blues and Wigan have had more successful periods at the top table of English football as they've got cup wins and trips to Europe to show for it. All we can claim is that we finished 8th a couple of times. Great, now without looking list off the teams that have finished 8th in the last 10 seasons. Other than the seasons we did, I bet you can't. It means absolutely nothing.

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #42 on: April 19, 2018, 10:31:27 AM »
That's just the evidence to suggest we haven't been successful, if we're basing success on having a nice training ground and enjoying winning a few games then next season will also be a success regardless of where we finish.

Truth is the PL in the past 7/8 seasons especially has become so devoid of life behind the top sides that you could relegate any 3 of 12 teams each season and it would make absolutely no difference whatsoever. In truth the only way to lay a glove on the top sides is to finish in the top four, which was never going to happen or win a cup, which we made no effort to do. We've stood still so long that we've been overtaken by Brighton, Bournemouth and Huddersfield.

Blues and Wigan have had more successful periods at the top table of English football as they've got cup wins and trips to Europe to show for it. All we can claim is that we finished 8th a couple of times. Great, now without looking list off the teams that have finished 8th in the last 10 seasons. Other than the seasons we did, I bet you can't. It means absolutely nothing.

Sorry but your argument is flawed and all over the place. how have we been overtaken by Bournemouth, Huddersfield and Brighton, when they've managed 4 premier league seasons between them in the last decade and we've managed 8?
As I said Blues and Wigan winning cups and getting European football on the back of it had nothing to do with being in the Premier league as they could have won those same cups in any league.
Sides that have finished 8th in the last 10 seasons (apart from us) off the top of my head would be Liverpool, Swansea, Everton, Southampton can't name any more than that though, maybe Fulham.

I have had a look at Wiki and seems I was right about the sides that have finished 8th...I missed 2 though - Spurs and Portsmouth. Do I get a prize?
« Last Edit: April 19, 2018, 10:42:44 AM by Hull Baggie »
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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #43 on: April 19, 2018, 10:43:29 AM »
We are to success on a par with the England football team, we have been at the top table but have no trophies to brag about. St georges is a marvellous facility but still no trophies, the FA is the richest association on the planet but still no trophies,
Have England been successful?  Still no trophies !!!

And similarly to England our play has largely been pants with an occasional flash of finesse!

So no IMO.
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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #44 on: April 19, 2018, 12:34:12 PM »
Eight years in the Premier League. No trophies, no European football.

Sport is competition, being there to make up the numbers spending most of our time defending our eighteen yard box to me is pointless. It won't be to the money men but to a fan like me it is.

So a success? Not for me.

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #45 on: April 19, 2018, 01:43:59 PM »
It's been a phenomenal success for Jeremy Peace... and that was the point wasn't it?

That sale was the objective, achieved with no net investment, survival mentality, pragmatic outlook and (with Pulis) the most negative, cynical, professionalism in the league.  That big payday was the objective.  Happy days for everyone... yeah...erm...no...honest...

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #46 on: April 19, 2018, 02:12:16 PM »
Sorry but your argument is flawed and all over the place. how have we been overtaken by Bournemouth, Huddersfield and Brighton, when they've managed 4 premier league seasons between them in the last decade and we've managed 8?
As I said Blues and Wigan winning cups and getting European football on the back of it had nothing to do with being in the Premier league as they could have won those same cups in any league.
Sides that have finished 8th in the last 10 seasons (apart from us) off the top of my head would be Liverpool, Swansea, Everton, Southampton can't name any more than that though, maybe Fulham.

I have had a look at Wiki and seems I was right about the sides that have finished 8th...I missed 2 though - Spurs and Portsmouth. Do I get a prize?

See below.

Eight years in the Premier League. No trophies, no European football.

Sport is competition, being there to make up the numbers spending most of our time defending our eighteen yard box to me is pointless. It won't be to the money men but to a fan like me it is.

So a success? Not for me.

Fans of other clubs will barely remember us winning some of the games that have been mentioned in this thread or each of our finishes for the last 8 seasons, or how many points we gained.

We've failed to land a meaningful blow in 8 seasons, yeah we've got a nice training ground and a good academy that can feed the academies of better clubs but on the pitch we've been a bit peripheral. You can blame who you want for that.

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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #47 on: April 19, 2018, 06:03:50 PM »
Compared to preceding decades (80’s, 90’s), I would say, undoubtedly, YES!
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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #48 on: April 20, 2018, 08:30:49 AM »
See below.

Fans of other clubs will barely remember us winning some of the games that have been mentioned in this thread or each of our finishes for the last 8 seasons, or how many points we gained.

We've failed to land a meaningful blow in 8 seasons, yeah we've got a nice training ground and a good academy that can feed the academies of better clubs but on the pitch we've been a bit peripheral. You can blame who you want for that.

Why would I care if fans of other clubs remember games we've won or how many points we've got?

To me the last decade has been a success as we have strengthened as a club, we have been a regular mid table side in the most watched league in the world. As you say facilities have improved and we have a good academy. Compared to the decade before it's like night and day.

I guess it depends on what criteria you are using to decide "success". From a purely fans perspective the last 4 years have been a bit of a pig but before that we were moving forward and improving year on year, bouncing straight back up when relegated then finally staying in and finishing higher each season, until the Mel/Irvine debacle which set us on the path to Pulis and Pardew. Yes making up the numbers in the premier league has become dull, especially when we also fail in the cups. So yes some fans won't see it as a success.

If you take the club as a whole and look at it as a fan but also from the perspective of a business then it has been a success. We are/were something like the 17th richest club in World football how is that not successful?

What meaningful blows would you realistically expect us to have made?
In the last decade we've had 1 FA Cup semi final (2007/08) and 1 quarter final(2014/15).
 In the 70's we had 1 FA cup semi final and one losing league cup final (1970), in the 80's we had 1 fa cup semi final and 1 league cup semi final (both in 81/82), 2001 we got to the FA cup Quarter final and in 2003 we got to League Cup semi final. That's it for troubling the latter stages of the cup competitions; 1 League Cup final, 2 fa cup semi finals, 1 Fa Cup QF, and 2 league cup semi finals in over 30 years.

We've been peripheral for most of our existence, not just the last decade.
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Re: So was our last decade a success?
« Reply #49 on: April 20, 2018, 09:06:19 AM »
Why would I care if fans of other clubs remember games we've won or how many points we've got?

To me the last decade has been a success as we have strengthened as a club, we have been a regular mid table side in the most watched league in the world. As you say facilities have improved and we have a good academy. Compared to the decade before it's like night and day.

I guess it depends on what criteria you are using to decide "success". From a purely fans perspective the last 4 years have been a bit of a pig but before that we were moving forward and improving year on year, bouncing straight back up when relegated then finally staying in and finishing higher each season, until the Mel/Irvine debacle which set us on the path to Pulis and Pardew. Yes making up the numbers in the premier league has become dull, especially when we also fail in the cups. So yes some fans won't see it as a success.

If you take the club as a whole and look at it as a fan but also from the perspective of a business then it has been a success. We are/were something like the 17th richest club in World football how is that not successful?

What meaningful blows would you realistically expect us to have made?
In the last decade we've had 1 FA Cup semi final (2007/08) and 1 quarter final(2014/15).
 In the 70's we had 1 FA cup semi final and one losing league cup final (1970), in the 80's we had 1 fa cup semi final and 1 league cup semi final (both in 81/82), 2001 we got to the FA cup Quarter final and in 2003 we got to League Cup semi final. That's it for troubling the latter stages of the cup competitions; 1 League Cup final, 2 fa cup semi finals, 1 Fa Cup QF, and 2 league cup semi finals in over 30 years.

We've been peripheral for most of our existence, not just the last decade.

The club as a whole is night and day compared to what is was in the 1990s. The Premier League money has aided that massively, so in that aspect, merely by being present we've had some "success" off the pitch.

You say who cares if fans of other clubs remember games we've won etc? Well that exactly what success is, putting your name on record indisputably - Wigan Athletic FA Cup Winners 2013. The closest we got in eight seasons was a QF in which we surrendered. The closest we got in the League Cup was two apperances in R5. If we're going to judge success on winning a few games and having a nice time then, as I said, next season will be a success, as will the one after that.

In the time we have been doing absolutely nothing. Swansea, Blues and Wigan have won major trophies and played in Europe. Hull City, Swansea, Blues, Southampton, West Ham (twice) and Stoke have played in Europe. Newcastle have played in Europe been relegated and promoted again, Fulham have made it to a Europa League final in that time. This season it looks likely Burnley will join that list. Leicester even manged to win the league (although that's a bit optimistic). Against records like that I don't see how we can sit here and pat ourselves on the back for having a nice training ground and some games consoles in the concourse of the Halfords Lane.

I agree with your points about infrastructure, as a club are we better? Almost certainly. As a football club have we been successful? No.  We can go round and round in circles all day on this, however it's a sad indication of how lopsided and uncompetitive football has become when we're applauding ourselves for finishing 10th out of 20.