[boinging_along]

He was poor last night but I don't think the set up helps any of our midfield.  They ALL look terrible when trying to find a forward pass because the front 3 are too far away and spread too wide across the pitch.  It's too easy for the opposition to pack the midfield and defence giving us no space.  Then when their packed midfield press we're not good enough in defence to get the ball to any kind of forward\midfield player in space.

[Albion79]

I could see the logic of playing Livermore as the holding midfielder last night as he played that role first half vs Brighton.

However the big difference with the Brighton game was they gave him loads of time so he could ping it about, last night as soon as the ball got to the halfway line, Forest were all over us and Livermore struggled, i would of taken him off at half time.

I dont think Livermore is anywhere near as bad as some make out and worth remembering he was in the middle 3 that played our best football with Barry and Phillips, however at the moment he is completely out of form and off the pace for the tempo this league is played at and shouldnt be starting right now.

[baggiebof]

Average player however the role he played last night is his best position. Teams have figured out that if they press us with 4 men, especially the player playing the pivot, then they can turn the ball over and score - see Barry getting robbed vs Boro. Although I think he is average, i think Livermore's performance last night was as much down to the tactics than him.

he offers nothing really other than being an athlete

I'm not sure I agree with this, I don't think he's particularly mobile.

[Dan87uk]

Poor performance last night for sure, would obviously rather play Barry or Harper there, but we do need to accept that he will be making appearances to rotate the midfield players. Since Barry is not of the age where he can play 3 full games in 7 days and Harper does seem to tire after 70-80 mins most games.

[Atomic]

Poor performance last night for sure, would obviously rather play Barry or Harper there, but we do need to accept that he will be making appearances to rotate the midfield players. Since Barry is not of the age where he can play 3 full games in 7 days and Harper does seem to tire after 70-80 mins most games.

He could've started with Barry and subbed him after about an hour. If he really must rest him the Field should've played in Barry's position.

[boinging_along]

I could see the logic of playing Livermore as the holding midfielder last night as he played that role first half vs Brighton.

However the big difference with the Brighton game was they gave him loads of time so he could ping it about, last night as soon as the ball got to the halfway line, Forest were all over us and Livermore struggled, i would of taken him off at half time.

I dont think Livermore is anywhere near as bad as some make out and worth remembering he was in the middle 3 that played our best football with Barry and Phillips, however at the moment he is completely out of form and off the pace for the tempo this league is played at and shouldnt be starting right now.

Yeah, Forest pressed well but I think whoever we had in that role would struggle because the options open when you receive the ball are so few. 

It's like the ball Dawson played that we conceded from, first, it was a terrible ball giving Livermore no chance.  But even if LIvermore had got the ball what was he supposed to do?  Turn 180 degrees instantly and take it past his man?  He'd have to take a good first touch (which too often he didn't), and then his options are back to the defence.  Rinse.  Repeat.

[TheJacko2000]

Yeah, Forest pressed well but I think whoever we had in that role would struggle because the options open when you receive the ball are so few. 

It's like the ball Dawson played that we conceded from, first, it was a terrible ball giving Livermore no chance.  But even if LIvermore had got the ball what was he supposed to do?  Turn 180 degrees instantly and take it past his man?  He'd have to take a good first touch (which too often he didn't), and then his options are back to the defence.  Rinse.  Repeat.

International centre midfielder who cannot take the ball on the half turn. Yes that is exactly what he should have done. Can you imagine Livermore having caps if he was Spanish?

[boinging_along]

Can you imagine us having a Spanish international midfielder playing in the Championship?

It's not easy to receive the ball on the turn when someone is pressing right behind you.  It's the easiest job in the world as a defender to ensure the player with the ball can't turn.  You can take the ball on the half turn when there's space to do so.  If you're good at doing it when there's a defender right up your backside you'd be playing for far better clubs than Albion.

The problem is the lack of foresight from the player making the pass into him.  What does HE expect the player receiving the ball to do?  That's why we struggle to beat the press because the defence gives the ball to someone with nothing else in mind other than "pass the ball to someone else".

Livermore is alright as a player, not amazing, not terrible.  He did have a poor game last night but I do think a lot of our midfield problems stem from the way we play it out.  You just have to look at where our midfield our receiving the ball when they do get it, they're more often than not 20-30 yards inside our own half.  That's too deep and leaves them all with way too much to do.

[seteefeet]

Sorry, but Livermore was beyond poor last night. Yes the pass to him that lead to their goal was a disaster but he was half asleep and on his heels and that's how he stayed for the rest of his time on the pitch.
He just reminds me of Gardner, he is very good at looking industrious whilst contributing virtually nothing. Can't tackle, can't pass, definitely can't shoot and when he does show for the ball he invariably slows play down.
Harper and Barry are our best central midfielders now with Johanson and Field next in line.

[KN22]

I have defended him previously as I thought (and still do) that he did okay first half of the season. Last night however, and at Stoke to a lesser degree, he was really poor. Barry cam on after around 65 minutes and was, in my view, a serious contended for MoM for us. That tells you something.

[FallOutBoy]

My Dad turned to me last night and said that 'Livermore was having to do it all on his own in the middle. Harper and Johanson were nowhere'. I was gobsmacked. He was awful last night, and he should have been hooked earlier imo.

I simply cannot tell what he brings to the team. For me, he'd be behind Phillips, Barry, Johanson, Field, Harper, Morrison, and even Brunt for a centre midfield spot at the moment. What does he do well? He's average at lots of stuff, but nothing sticks out.

[alex1]

Luckily we have good competition for places in the midfield. If you include Phillips, then we have 9 contenders for 3 slots. So its up to the management to see who is on form and who's strugglling.
To be fair to Livermore, he has been effective for much of the season, but when he can't do what he's good at, then the overall team performance suffers. 

[TheJacko2000]

My Dad turned to me last night and said that 'Livermore was having to do it all on his own in the middle. Harper and Johanson were nowhere'. I was gobsmacked. He was awful last night, and he should have been hooked earlier imo.

I simply cannot tell what he brings to the team. For me, he'd be behind Phillips, Barry, Johanson, Field, Harper, Morrison, and even Brunt for a centre midfield spot at the moment. What does he do well? He's average at lots of stuff, but nothing sticks out.

That's what he does well, flies under the radar, a steady 4 out of 10 (with the odd game like last night where that drops considerably) not affecting games, not offering anything except reputation because he came through Spurs academy, at least Craig Gardner had a shot in his locker.

[alex1]

He does a similar job to what Claudio Yacob did, who somehow seemed to escape the same criticism as Livermore. Both clearly not particularly creative players, are not prolific goalscorers, and are there to offer cover to the defence.   

[TheJacko2000]

He does a similar job to what Claudio Yacob did, who somehow seemed to escape the same criticism as Livermore. Both clearly not particularly creative players, are not prolific goalscorers, and are there to offer cover to the defence.

You're joking aren't you Yacob tackled and blocked anything that moved, twice the player Livermore is.

[alex1]

You're joking aren't you Yacob tackled and blocked anything that moved, twice the player Livermore is.

Dunno. I think Yacob was a very tenacious tackler and marker. Got alot of yellow cards like Livermore. But overall very few assists, goals. I think Livermore offers slightly more going forward.

[rajesh-wba]

My Dad turned to me last night and said that 'Livermore was having to do it all on his own in the middle. Harper and Johanson were nowhere'. I was gobsmacked. He was awful last night, and he should have been hooked earlier imo.

I simply cannot tell what he brings to the team. For me, he'd be behind Phillips, Barry, Johanson, Field, Harper, Morrison, and even Brunt for a centre midfield spot at the moment. What does he do well? He's average at lots of stuff, but nothing sticks out.

I personally like Livermore, and the attributes he brings to a team. He's got good energy levels, covers a lot of ground and is a decent passer when given time. Note the ball to Gayle against Stoke at Home.
I just don't think he's effective as the deep lying midfielder in this team, where the primary aim is to recycle the ball and initiate attacks, I much prefer him as the right side or left side in a central three.

Also he always takes a little while to gain rhythm, very much similar to Phillips, whereby they tend to take 3-4 games to get up to speed.

I'm actually surprised considering we've tried to evolve into a passing team why he hasn't been trialled (maybe in training this has happened) at centre back in a 3. He impressed me when he played there for Hull when they had a number of injuries.

I just think he's someone who will always divide opinion, but I think the make up of the midfield has to be right to see the best of him.

In terms of his performance yesterday he was very much below par. I think he will start on Saturday due to his experience etc.

[OldburyWBA]

Livermore is a constant 6 out of 10, occasionally lifts to a 7 but also drops to 5 but last night went down to about 4 for me, not as bad as is made out to be by some but not going to set the world on fire either.

[rajesh-wba]

Livermore is a constant 6 out of 10, occasionally lifts to a 7 but also drops to 5 but last night went down to about 4 for me, not as bad as is made out to be by some but not going to set the world on fire either.

Agree. Arguably one of his worst performances last night. I think he knew that himself too.

[mulliganstired]

He's not mobile enough to play the way we are trying, him receiving the ball facing our goal in our half, he's got the turning circle of a cruise liner, he will be picked off again.  We were sussed on the 352 so we changed it around, we've been sussed on this playing out from the back business, so we need to change that if we want to get anywhere near the automatic places.

[paulosull]

He's not mobile enough to play the way we are trying, him receiving the ball facing our goal in our half, he's got the turning circle of a cruise liner, he will be picked off again.  We were sussed on the 352 so we changed it around, we've been sussed on this playing out from the back business, so we need to change that if we want to get anywhere near the automatic places.

turning circle of cruise liner priceless  can his agent use that quote 

[TheJacko2000]

Livermore is a constant 6 out of 10, occasionally lifts to a 7 but also drops to 5 but last night went down to about 4 for me, not as bad as is made out to be by some but not going to set the world on fire either.

Incredibly generous take when you're so down on other more talented players.

[Oldbury24]

International centre midfielder who cannot take the ball on the half turn. Yes that is exactly what he should have done. Can you imagine Livermore having caps if he was Spanish?

I can't imagine Livermore getting caps if he was Scottish....

[OldburyWBA]

Incredibly generous take when you're so down on other more talented players.

I judge a player on what I see, Livermore is what he is, a solid workhorse, never going to be anything else.

As for these talented players you mean your mate Chris, he is what he is an excellent crosser of a ball who is not and never will be a central midfielder as he cannot tackle, is not mobile enough and loses his best asset when he's in the middle hence why he should be out wide or at left back, at present we cannot fit him in there so he should be on the bench, no hate towards him just my opinion. Who else am I so down on ? I don't have a hit list of players I never give credit to, I say it as I see it.

[lewisant]

He does a similar job to what Claudio Yacob did, who somehow seemed to escape the same criticism as Livermore. Both clearly not particularly creative players, are not prolific goalscorers, and are there to offer cover to the defence.

This to me is an incredible statement. Yacob was an absolute force, he didn't try across field 50 yard balls because he couldn't do it, whereas Livermore hasn't even recognised his own limits.

The only time Livermore puts in a good challenge is seconds after he's given it to the opposition