Author Topic: Under 23's / Academy Thread  (Read 640005 times)

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FallOutBoy

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1325 on: July 09, 2019, 12:41:36 PM »
One of the problems with our academy is that in the past the structure/coaches had been there for a long time, and were well trusted, so could give genuine advice on whether a player was ready for the step-up. By going cheap on the first team management, the club has lost Darren Moore and Jimmy Shan from the setup completely, leaving it with less experienced coaches, and removing some of the clear pathways that previously existed.

I wouldnt be surprised if we were very tight when it comes to wages of the young players, relying heavily on appearance/performance bonuses rather than wages, whilst also being very negative towards players' agents. All this is bound to push the players' representatives to recommend them move elsewhere, which will generate the agent more cash in the short term, with little regard to the player's ongoing development.

Why should a player be loyal if the club doesn't show they respect their talent?

What clear pathways to the first team have there been for youth players? The last one to break through on a consistent basis was Berahino. Before that, probably the Chambers twins and Lloyd Dyer.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1326 on: July 09, 2019, 12:42:52 PM »
With the £8 Million (hopefully with a sell on clause of some sort) being touted for Rogers, just like that the Academy's existence is re-validated.

Yes it's frustrating to lose players to a foreign club for a nominal fee (something you would hope FIFA address at some point), but selling domestically whenever we uncover a gem is financially worth it for us.

I would reject earlier calls for the academy to be canned on this basis alone, but then there is always the chance these players can also burst onto the scene for our own team too.

Not to mention the potential impact of Brexit (no political debates please) on player transfers in and out of this country - British based players will be at a further premium (already are to an extent) and we must think long term with how we treat the academy with this in mind as well.
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Mister AT

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1327 on: July 09, 2019, 12:50:34 PM »
We are just part of the food chain unfortunately.

We are entering the next few years were some of the better products of the academy are starting to come through.

A lot of work has been put in over the years for us to build good age groups, we are now getting to the stage were the age categories are starting to perform well in tournaments, win competitions and for several of them to be representing their country.

The best of the crop will always be cherry picked by the bigger clubs - Barry and Rogers being a couple, but we still have players that look capable of breaking into the first team set up. The likes of Tulloch, Ferguson, Soule all have high reputations within the academy, then the under 18's squad is littered with talent, some of which may make it, some who may not.

The academy is defiantly worth it, especially if we don't return to the premier league anytime soon. This summer we will already see a lot of Field, Harper, Leko, Edwards in pre season - alongside possibly Fitzwater, Wilson, O'Shea and the others, the academy has produced some good players.

Granted the compensation system does need to be looked at in regards to the Barry deal, but overall how anyone can suggest we scrap the academy baffles me.



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Big Al

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1328 on: July 09, 2019, 01:01:29 PM »
Over the last 3/4 years the academy has been brilliant, producing a string of talented youngsters.
To have young players being pursued by Man City and Barca would have been unthinkable not so long ago. Who can blame those people for taking that chance, our issue should be in the compensation paid for developing players and add on for future sales.
The money involved at first team levels with promotion or relegation means it will always hard to make the breakthrough for younger players.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1329 on: July 09, 2019, 01:39:12 PM »
FA are helping top six clubs run a monopoly and  eufa are doing the same, anyone with a bit of education willing to pen letter to local politicians regarding underage players.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1330 on: July 09, 2019, 02:10:13 PM »
Reports on Twitter that U18's boss Mike Scott is leaving to go to Derby County as Head of Academy Coaching

https://twitter.com/mattwilson_star/status/1148574479125307395

I think what's worse than us being unable to stop youth players leaving to other clubs, is allowing the people that run this successful academy to leave. Why are we allowing people so important to our youth system to leave, this is surely something that we can prevent?

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1331 on: July 09, 2019, 02:18:39 PM »
Reports on Twitter that U18's boss Mike Scott is leaving to go to Derby County as Head of Academy Coaching

https://twitter.com/mattwilson_star/status/1148574479125307395

I think what's worse than us being unable to stop youth players leaving to other clubs, is allowing the people that run this successful academy to leave. Why are we allowing people so important to our youth system to leave, this is surely something that we can prevent?

There must be more to this whole scenario than what we are aware of.

Harrison leaving
Shan leaving ( granted this one may be for a challenge as a manager somewhere)
Scott leaving

Along with Barry and Rogers moving on.

Seems a bit bizarre they all seem to be jumping ship of what's considered a good academy.
Only reason I can see behind Scott leaving is perhaps he hasn't been considered here for Harrison's position and is choosing to have a 'better' job at another academy?

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1332 on: July 09, 2019, 02:21:26 PM »
Maybe the talent our Academy is producing is too good publicity for it. Can imagine quite a few envious eyes being cast towards it.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1333 on: July 09, 2019, 03:35:58 PM »
One of the problems with our academy is that in the past the structure/coaches had been there for a long time, and were well trusted, so could give genuine advice on whether a player was ready for the step-up. By going cheap on the first team management, the club has lost Darren Moore and Jimmy Shan from the setup completely, leaving it with less experienced coaches, and removing some of the clear pathways that previously existed.

I wouldnt be surprised if we were very tight when it comes to wages of the young players, relying heavily on appearance/performance bonuses rather than wages, whilst also being very negative towards players' agents. All this is bound to push the players' representatives to recommend them move elsewhere, which will generate the agent more cash in the short term, with little regard to the player's ongoing development.

Why should a player be loyal if the club doesn't show they respect their talent?

Neither of whom particularly used the academy for anything important. Moore did eventually use Harper in league games but that was about it, Shan used Edwards for 3 games then permanently dropped him and was less inclined to use youth players than even Moore.

They might have come from the youth teams but neither were good for their pathways. Farke at Norwich was 1000 times better and he was from outside the club. Lampard and Bielsa were also much better at using their academy players than either Moore or particularly Shan.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1334 on: July 09, 2019, 06:41:33 PM »
Well looking at the talent from our academy being scouted & brought by the top teams in the WORLD i'd say our academy staff are doing a great job,Thanks guys.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1335 on: July 09, 2019, 07:05:18 PM »
Time to just shut it down. We’re getting absolutely nothing from it and any player with a single ounce of talent is simply being hoovered up. It flat out stinks.

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1336 on: July 09, 2019, 07:49:40 PM »
Time to just shut it down. We’re getting absolutely nothing from it and any player with a single ounce of talent is simply being hoovered up. It flat out stinks.

Except giving local kids the opportunity to become footballers. Not everything is about ROI.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1337 on: July 09, 2019, 08:49:35 PM »
Time to just shut it down. We’re getting absolutely nothing from it and any player with a single ounce of talent is simply being hoovered up. It flat out stinks.

Our academy is in profit! And we should champion something that gives a chance to kids whether we get a benefit or not. It’s hardly a kings ransome in today’s footballing terms - certainly not for a premiership or higher championship team

Dan87uk

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1338 on: July 10, 2019, 12:19:03 AM »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48926872

Exeter City fans have funded the signing of former West Bromwich Albion midfielder Noah Smerdon for an undisclosed fee.

Exeter's 1931 Fund comprises around 60 supporters who each donate £19 per month to help pay for a new member of the League Two club's squad.

Smerdon, 18, began his career as a youth with Albion before joining non-league side Gloucester City in 2017.

The Baggies are entitled to a fee for Smerdon's development.

"I'm delighted to have joined Exeter City, I know about the history of the club and the players that have come through here. It's a really good opportunity," Smerdon said.

The fund has previously helped pay wages of players including James Norwood, Graham Cummins, Pierce Sweeney and Jack Sparkes.


Yet more money to put into the coffers - I'm sure it will be a nominally small fee, but better than nothing, keep the coins rolling in.

Time to just shut it down. We’re getting absolutely nothing from it and any player with a single ounce of talent is simply being hoovered up. It flat out stinks.

Makes further mockery of comments like this  ;)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2019, 12:20:42 AM by Dan87uk »
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1339 on: July 10, 2019, 10:00:08 AM »
Something more to consider regarding the academy is Brexit. Sometime in the next 2years the employment laws affecting EU passport holders will change and they will not have automatic right to work here making young British talent even more valuable and expensive.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1340 on: July 11, 2019, 07:52:08 PM »
Darren Moore getting the Doncaster job is beneficial or could be for us as a club.

Good opportunity for us to get Leko and Wilson on season long loans there for game time, perhaps even O'shea if we want to continue his development.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1341 on: July 11, 2019, 09:32:45 PM »
Darren Moore getting the Doncaster job is beneficial or could be for us as a club.

Good opportunity for us to get Leko and Wilson on season long loans there for game time, perhaps even O'shea if we want to continue his development.
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Mister AT

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1342 on: July 13, 2019, 09:05:42 PM »
Under 23 beat Alvechurch today 4-1.

Owen Windsor scored. Interesting that Jamie Soule wasn’t in the match day squad.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1343 on: July 13, 2019, 09:14:48 PM »
Under 23 beat Alvechurch today 4-1.

Owen Windsor scored. Interesting that Jamie Soule wasn’t in the match day squad.

Interesting or worrying?

There were rumours he was the next one to be picked off.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1344 on: July 13, 2019, 09:38:58 PM »
Worrying I'd say. He's got a year left on his contract so unless he's going to sign an extension we may as well get some sort of money while we can.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1345 on: July 17, 2019, 02:00:57 PM »
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/eight-youngsters-sign-pro-deals/

A talented pool of Albion youngsters have committed their futures to The Hawthorns with eight signing professional contracts.

Six Academy graduates have agreed one-year contracts with a further 12-month option in the Club’s favour, while goalkeeper Brad House has negotiated a new one-year contract at The Hawthorns.

Two of Albion’s FA Youth Cup semi-finalists, Finn Azaz and George Harmon, have penned new deals, while Jack Chambers, Nick Clayton-Phillips, Dan Meredith and Sam Wilding have all pledged their futures to the Club.

Meanwhile, Albion fought off fierce competition to secure the signature of highly-rated forward Owen Windsor from Cirencester Town earlier in the summer.

The 17-year-old, who signed a two-year deal with a further 12-month option in the Club’s favour, became one of non-league football’s most coveted youngsters after netting six goals in seven starts for the Southern League Division One South side in their last campaign.
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Mister AT

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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1346 on: July 17, 2019, 02:15:45 PM »
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/july/eight-youngsters-sign-pro-deals/

A talented pool of Albion youngsters have committed their futures to The Hawthorns with eight signing professional contracts.

Six Academy graduates have agreed one-year contracts with a further 12-month option in the Club’s favour, while goalkeeper Brad House has negotiated a new one-year contract at The Hawthorns.

Two of Albion’s FA Youth Cup semi-finalists, Finn Azaz and George Harmon, have penned new deals, while Jack Chambers, Nick Clayton-Phillips, Dan Meredith and Sam Wilding have all pledged their futures to the Club.

Meanwhile, Albion fought off fierce competition to secure the signature of highly-rated forward Owen Windsor from Cirencester Town earlier in the summer.

The 17-year-old, who signed a two-year deal with a further 12-month option in the Club’s favour, became one of non-league football’s most coveted youngsters after netting six goals in seven starts for the Southern League Division One South side in their last campaign.


Glad we have tied Clayton Phillips down, he looks like he could be the next one to get near the first team, looks tidy on the ball and chips in with his fair share of goals.

Worryingly, Soule isn't named on that list. The club will be trying to get him to  sign a deal, finished top scorer last year and had some big clubs monitoring him in semi final. Be interested to see what happens with him over the next few weeks/months.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1347 on: July 17, 2019, 03:24:14 PM »
Glad we have tied Clayton Phillips down, he looks like he could be the next one to get near the first team, looks tidy on the ball and chips in with his fair share of goals.

Worryingly, Soule isn't named on that list. The club will be trying to get him to  sign a deal, finished top scorer last year and had some big clubs monitoring him in semi final. Be interested to see what happens with him over the next few weeks/months.
Yes Clayton Phillips has often shown up well on highlights clips I've caught. Soule has one year left on his existing deal which might be why he's not mentioned here. I'd assume we are trying to get him to sign an extension and if he doesn't we'll no doubt look to sell and recoup some money as he's got that one year left.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1348 on: July 19, 2019, 04:32:58 PM »
Glad we have tied Clayton Phillips down, he looks like he could be the next one to get near the first team, looks tidy on the ball and chips in with his fair share of goals.

Worryingly, Soule isn't named on that list. The club will be trying to get him to  sign a deal, finished top scorer last year and had some big clubs monitoring him in semi final. Be interested to see what happens with him over the next few weeks/months.

Hasn't Soule already signed a contract as he is older and it runs out next season. So more like the Harper situation rather than Barry.
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Re: Under 23's / Academy Thread
« Reply #1349 on: July 19, 2019, 07:55:44 PM »
Really hope that we right the wrongs of last summer and find a way of managing the 18-21 years olds better in the next 6 months.

It was obvious last summer that Field, Leko, Harper, Edwards and Burke were not part of Moore's immediate plans, and yet all of them stayed here for 5 months in the reserves. In January we sent Burke away, but kept the rest, and while that was right for Harper, Edwards and Field still only had limited time and Leko did not feature.

We must make an accurate assessment of these players this summer, as Leko has had 2 wasted years now where he hasn't developed. He probably never will, but i'd like to see him on loan at an attacking league 1 side. It is jarder to judge what to do with Edwards, Field, Fitzwater and O Shea, but i'd hope atleast 1 of them goes out on loan, else we should be using them regularly in the 1st team. The same goes for the likes of Tulloch and Soule (if we aren't going to use then), Clayton-Phillips, Ferguson and Azaz.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 08:00:12 PM by Baggies »
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