[TiptonThrostle]

This is probably totally off beam BUT....

In Darrens playing career he is unlikely to have been subbed very often at all (barring injuries). Could this influence his thinking that subs should be used as a very last resort ?? Would he feel that players should start and finish games (as he did!)

A good point actually. i just find it completely bizarre the amount of games we have dominated and then 15-25 minutes to go the opposition starts coming back into the game and some players look dead on their feet and the changes happen too late. some games his first sub is 75 minutes onwards. Too late when it is 46 games a season and most weeks saturday-tuesday.

[seteefeet]

It seems pretty clear that how well we think Darren is doing, depends on how good we think the squad is.

Personally, I don't think it is that good:
Johnstone, Dawson, Livermore, Rodriguez, whilst decent Championship level players are very over-rated by some.
The likes of HRK,  Bartley, Mears and Brunt (in CM) are pretty universally lambasted as not good enough.
Morrison and Phillips are injury prone and inconsistent.
Harper, Field and Tosin are still learning their trade.
Which leaves only Holgate, Hegazi, Gibbs and Gayle as genuine quality.

He picks the 11 that most would pick, in the formation that most would pick, so not sure he could do much different. His in-game management is suspect at times but we don't have a wealth of riches on the bench, especially in an attacking sense.

Would a different manager have us in the top 2? It's certainly possible, but a different manager could also have us in the bottom half so, for me, he's making a decent fist of it and, hopefully, will get us over the line and we can all unite behind him.
I'm sure though, that, even if we go up, there will be those that say he got lucky, is not good enough for the Prem, and the cycle will begin again.
History says that, if you say a manager isn't good enough, sooner or later you will be proved right.

[Mister AT]

This is probably totally off beam BUT....

In Darrens playing career he is unlikely to have been subbed very often at all (barring injuries). Could this influence his thinking that subs should be used as a very last resort ?? Would he feel that players should start and finish games (as he did!)

I wouldn't think that would have anything to do with his decisions as a manager.

You could argue that point with 80% of managers, Steve Bruce was a defender but makes regular changes.

Even down the road, wasn't Nuno a goalkeeper, he would have probably never been subbed off in his career, but it doesn't stop him from making changes if needed in a game.

I have backed Darren Moore from the beginning (and still do). I wrote a post before about how I admire the cr*p hes had to deal with behind the scenes and how he still has us challenging for promotion.

Like others have said, we ran a poll at the start of the season and many had us finishing mid table, some even feared that we could do a 'Sunderland', yet here we are sitting in the playoffs, a win tomorrow puts in a strong position with a favourable run in.

For me he is doing a solid job.

[Albionic]

I wouldn't think that would have anything to do with his decisions as a manager.

You could argue that point with 80% of managers, Steve Bruce was a defender but makes regular changes.

Even down the road, wasn't Nuno a goalkeeper, he would have probably never been subbed off in his career, but it doesn't stop him from making changes if needed in a game.

I have backed Darren Moore from the beginning (and still do). I wrote a post before about how I admire the cr*p hes had to deal with behind the scenes and how he still has us challenging for promotion.

Like others have said, we ran a poll at the start of the season and many had us finishing mid table, some even feared that we could do a 'Sunderland', yet here we are sitting in the playoffs, a win tomorrow puts in a strong position with a favourable run in.

For me he is doing a solid job.

Hey, I totally agree, especially for a novice he has done a really solid job IMO.
Do I agree with all his decisions a resounding No, but he is a professional coach and I'm not, I also don't know the injury status, fitness status, personal issues etc, etc that the players / squad are dealing with & so I measure my responses against his greater knowledge.

I think its healthy that fans question things but to "slag off" coaches when we re not in possession of the facts is just daft. That said when a coach consistently serves up negative / cowardly football its ok to call him out for it but then the converse has to be true.

So in summary, A good first season so far, yes it could have been better but my god it could have been a hell of a lot worse.

[Fritzl Palace]

It seems pretty clear that how well we think Darren is doing, depends on how good we think the squad is.

Personally, I don't think it is that good:
Johnstone, Dawson, Livermore, Rodriguez, whilst decent Championship level players are very over-rated by some.
The likes of HRK,  Bartley, Mears and Brunt (in CM) are pretty universally lambasted as not good enough.
Morrison and Phillips are injury prone and inconsistent.
Harper, Field and Tosin are still learning their trade.
Which leaves only Holgate, Hegazi, Gibbs and Gayle as genuine quality.

He picks the 11 that most would pick, in the formation that most would pick, so not sure he could do much different. His in-game management is suspect at times but we don't have a wealth of riches on the bench, especially in an attacking sense.

Would a different manager have us in the top 2? It's certainly possible, but a different manager could also have us in the bottom half so, for me, he's making a decent fist of it and, hopefully, will get us over the line and we can all unite behind him.
I'm sure though, that, even if we go up, there will be those that say he got lucky, is not good enough for the Prem, and the cycle will begin again.
History says that, if you say a manager isn't good enough, sooner or later you will be proved right.

I'd call issue with a lot of what you said, but had to make specific reference to that. I do not think most would have picked the three at the back for as many games as Darren went with it, and I do not think most would play Gayle as a left winger for starters.

[seteefeet]

I'd call issue with a lot of what you said, but had to make specific reference to that. I do not think most would have picked the three at the back for as many games as Darren went with it, and I do not think most would play Gayle as a left winger for starters.

I know you would mate and that's fine, i'm not saying I'm right, just giving my opinion. You value the squad a lot higher than I do so your expectations are different and I get that.
As for the 3 at the back, I agreed at the time that it did go on a bit too long but, in hindsight, it wasn't as bad as it seems, especially at home, as we only lost 1 out of 7. Our home form has dived since we went 433, so it would be just as easy to criticise Darren for changing it!
Personally, I think it just backs up my theory that the players are just not that good and regardless of formation, we are limited and vulnerable in what is a very difficult league.

[Fritzl Palace]

I know you would mate and that's fine, i'm not saying I'm right, just giving my opinion. You value the squad a lot higher than I do so your expectations are different and I get that.
As for the 3 at the back, I agreed at the time that it did go on a bit too long but, in hindsight, it wasn't as bad as it seems, especially at home, as we only lost 1 out of 7. Our home form has dived since we went 433, so it would be just as easy to criticise Darren for changing it!
Personally, I think it just backs up my theory that the players are just not that good and regardless of formation, we are limited and vulnerable in what is a very difficult league.

Agree entirely, it is ultimately all down to opinions, I have no issue with people having opinions that differ to mine. I personally feel that the players we have should be capable of far more than we are currently providing at home and that, for a side looking toward automatic promotion, our form at home is completely unacceptable and I do not see enough being done by the powers that be to address it, either in planning for the games or during the game.

That Sheffield United game to me looked like one side who were insistent on lining up a certain way (us), with the other side knowing exactly how we would line up and exploiting it (them) and the first side doing absolutely nothing once realising that plan A was not going to work to address it, which to me is poor management.

I compare the two starting XI's player for player and it would impossible to convince me that we should have lost that game.

[seteefeet]

Agree entirely, it is ultimately all down to opinions, I have no issue with people having opinions that differ to mine. I personally feel that the players we have should be capable of far more than we are currently providing at home and that, for a side looking toward automatic promotion, our form at home is completely unacceptable and I do not see enough being done by the powers that be to address it, either in planning for the games or during the game.

That Sheffield United game to me looked like one side who were insistent on lining up a certain way (us), with the other side knowing exactly how we would line up and exploiting it (them) and the first side doing absolutely nothing once realising that plan A was not going to work to address it, which to me is poor management.

I compare the two starting XI's player for player and it would impossible to convince me that we should have lost that game.

Sheff Utd was horrible, worst performance of the season for me, and yes we looked found out. In Moore's defence though, even our "better" players, Barry, Gibbs, Holgate, Harper and Gayle were pants and it's hard to legislate for that all happening in the same game. Maybe tiredness, maybe motivation but, whatever it was, I hope they shake it by Friday.

[timdon]

It seems pretty clear that how well we think Darren is doing, depends on how good we think the squad is.

Personally, I don't think it is that good:
Johnstone, Dawson, Livermore, Rodriguez, whilst decent Championship level players are very over-rated by some.
The likes of HRK,  Bartley, Mears and Brunt (in CM) are pretty universally lambasted as not good enough.
Morrison and Phillips are injury prone and inconsistent.
Harper, Field and Tosin are still learning their trade.
Which leaves only Holgate, Hegazi, Gibbs and Gayle as genuine quality.

He picks the 11 that most would pick, in the formation that most would pick, so not sure he could do much different. His in-game management is suspect at times but we don't have a wealth of riches on the bench, especially in an attacking sense.

Would a different manager have us in the top 2? It's certainly possible, but a different manager could also have us in the bottom half so, for me, he's making a decent fist of it and, hopefully, will get us over the line and we can all unite behind him.
I'm sure though, that, even if we go up, there will be those that say he got lucky, is not good enough for the Prem, and the cycle will begin again.
History says that, if you say a manager isn't good enough, sooner or later you will be proved right.

A very balanced post, with which I wholeheartedly agree. In particular, your analysis of the strength of the squad is spot on. It is not nearly as strong as many people on here make out, and certainly not so good that we should be winning the division with ease. Patience is something we as fans aren't blessed with, but patient we must be. I don't believe that we will go up this season, but it won't be the disaster that many people seem to think. We have quite a few very promising youngsters, and a new scouting system, which will hopefully unearth a few gems that don't cost the earth. DM inherited a mess and is building for the future. I am very hopeful that after a couple of seasons in the Championship we will rise again and be stronger and better equipped to go up than we are right now.

[Fritzl Palace]

Sheff Utd was horrible, worst performance of the season for me, and yes we looked found out. In Moore's defence though, even our "better" players, Barry, Gibbs, Holgate, Harper and Gayle were pants and it's hard to legislate for that all happening in the same game. Maybe tiredness, maybe motivation but, whatever it was, I hope they shake it by Friday.

Massive one Friday. I think I speak on behalf of all those who question Moore's ability when I say that, despite that, we will all be behind them for a big performance and hopefully massive win on Friday to set us up for the remaining 10/11 games of the season. We can still more than achieve automatic promotion, we have a favourable run of home fixtures to hopefully address the awful home form and hopefully we keep the away form as it has been.

I would love nothing more than for Darren to shut me up because it would mean promotion.

[TiptonThrostle]

Agree entirely, it is ultimately all down to opinions, I have no issue with people having opinions that differ to mine. I personally feel that the players we have should be capable of far more than we are currently providing at home and that, for a side looking toward automatic promotion, our form at home is completely unacceptable and I do not see enough being done by the powers that be to address it, either in planning for the games or during the game.

That Sheffield United game to me looked like one side who were insistent on lining up a certain way (us), with the other side knowing exactly how we would line up and exploiting it (them) and the first side doing absolutely nothing once realising that plan A was not going to work to address it, which to me is poor management.

I compare the two starting XI's player for player and it would impossible to convince me that we should have lost that game.

Completely Agree. out of their starting 11 i wouldn't have swapped one player.

[TiptonThrostle]

Massive one Friday. I think I speak on behalf of all those who question Moore's ability when I say that, despite that, we will all be behind them for a big performance and hopefully massive win on Friday to set us up for the remaining 10/11 games of the season. We can still more than achieve automatic promotion, we have a favourable run of home fixtures to hopefully address the awful home form and hopefully we keep the away form as it has been.

I would love nothing more than for Darren to shut me up because it would mean promotion.

Second that. there is over 2,000 of us going friday and they will be right behind the team as usual away from home.

but it is really the critical stage of the season and we HAVE to win friday if we are to go up automatically.

[mulliganstired]

Agree entirely, it is ultimately all down to opinions, I have no issue with people having opinions that differ to mine. I personally feel that the players we have should be capable of far more than we are currently providing at home and that, for a side looking toward automatic promotion, our form at home is completely unacceptable and I do not see enough being done by the powers that be to address it, either in planning for the games or during the game.

That Sheffield United game to me looked like one side who were insistent on lining up a certain way (us), with the other side knowing exactly how we would line up and exploiting it (them) and the first side doing absolutely nothing once realising that plan A was not going to work to address it, which to me is poor management.

I compare the two starting XI's player for player and it would impossible to convince me that we should have lost that game.

Moore didn't react at all, and it is clear now that the players are told to stick to the pre-match plan until told otherwise.  I don't think we had one serious effort until about 5 minutes from time when Montero beat the keeper to a long ball but touched it straight into his arms.  If I could see the big hole between our back 6 and the front 3+Harper, if I could see they had 3 up hassling brilliantly in our half while we stooged it around, leaving 7 against 4 in theirs if we ever managed to get it forward, why couldn't Moore.?  Or Jones?  Are our players banned from trying to get a message to Moore that it isn't working? If it had been 0-0 you could maybe have understood it.
 
What is frustrating is one of the only times we went for a big shift, against Sheff Weds away, it worked.  Maybe it was individual moments from Barnes, but if you chop things around anything can happen, you might concede as well as score, but if you're losing anyway it doesn't matter that much.

I am still pro-Moore, by the way, I just hope he loosens up a bit in this area.

[johnny Cash]

A very balanced post, with which I wholeheartedly agree. In particular, your analysis of the strength of the squad is spot on. It is not nearly as strong as many people on here make out, and certainly not so good that we should be winning the division with ease. Patience is something we as fans aren't blessed with, but patient we must be. I don't believe that we will go up this season, but it won't be the disaster that many people seem to think. We have quite a few very promising youngsters, and a new scouting system, which will hopefully unearth a few gems that don't cost the earth. DM inherited a mess and is building for the future. I am very hopeful that after a couple of seasons in the Championship we will rise again and be stronger and better equipped to go up than we are right now.

I don't see anyone suggesting we should win it with ease, but it is the strongest squad in the division. I'll happily debate any other squad you think is better.

We certainly arent getting the performances of the best squad though. Jay Rodriquez for instance has had some very poor games, but you cannot tell me he isn't better than the majority of the forwards in this division.

The fact we have so many players under performing should bring question marks over what they are being asked to do. I don't look at our squad and think its an attitude problem, most seem like good honest pro's.

[timdon]

I don't see anyone suggesting we should win it with ease, but it is the strongest squad in the division. I'll happily debate any other squad you think is better.

We certainly arent getting the performances of the best squad though. Jay Rodriquez for instance has had some very poor games, but you cannot tell me he isn't better than the majority of the forwards in this division.

The fact we have so many players under performing should bring question marks over what they are being asked to do. I don't look at our squad and think its an attitude problem, most seem like good honest pro's.

I'll turn the question around. You say that we have the best squad in the division, but they are under performing. You pick Jay Rodriguez as an example, so you must rate him pretty highly. Are you seriously suggesting that he is the best forward in the division, or even one of the top 3? And tell me exactly when in his career you think he was playing at his very best?

[BoingFlyer]

Looks like HRK is back for tomorrow, glad to see some one who can give us a more direct and hold the ball up option.

[wba_1996]

I'll turn the question around. You say that we have the best squad in the division, but they are under performing. You pick Jay Rodriguez as an example, so you must rate him pretty highly. Are you seriously suggesting that he is the best forward in the division, or even one of the top 3? And tell me exactly when in his career you think he was playing at his very best?

He's not far off. Gayle, Rodriguez, Abraham and Assombalonga are the best 4 proven strikers in this division. Che Adams and Neal Maupay are both very good young prospects. Sharp is a veteran poacher having the best season of his career. Pukki is having an incredible season but has never done anything in his career prior to this season. We've got the best squad in the division, we have a top Championship player in every position and when fully fit have the strongest bench in the league.

I'd also disagree with the people saying Moore is building for the future. Look at the squad, Moore has built for the extreme short term. I said in the summer we had 2 options, go down the long term route by bringing in young players and scouting abroad, or target an immediate return to the Prem. We clearly chose the second option which is why I've been less patient with Moore. I expected top 2 when the summer window closed and I feel the board would have expected the same, I think he's underperforming. If we'd chosen the long term vision I would have expected a similar season to Swansea's (but without their chronic lack of investment), in this case I'd be more concerned with play style and performances than league position.

[johnny Cash]

I'll turn the question around. You say that we have the best squad in the division, but they are under performing. You pick Jay Rodriguez as an example, so you must rate him pretty highly. Are you seriously suggesting that he is the best forward in the division, or even one of the top 3? And tell me exactly when in his career you think he was playing at his very best?

Yes I rate him highly at this level. He isn’t the best but I agree with the poster who said his quality and ability is in the best 5 or 6, although I don’t think he’s doing himself justice. If we assume 4 forwards per club that’s 96 so he is better than the majority. Also agree with the poster before that we have one of those few better in Gayle (bizarrely in the prem you may get more from jay than Gayle in a struggling side)

As for when he’s been at his best, that’s easy but sadly a long time ago in football terms now and without doubt 13-14 at Southampton. 1 in 2 season, England cap and talk of a big move to spurs. I don’t think any other player in the champ has hit that height in their careeer albeit short lived due to injuries (bar the older pros like Barry and Cole).

I honestly believe JR and the squad in general is capable of more, and like I said, I don’t think it’s his attitude. Even playing poorly nobodies really dominated us.

[GREGMT]

We surely do have the strongest squad in the league.  We still got to 32pts with one of the worst managers in our history (Pardew). 

The board have been proactive with adding players.  We haven’t lost many from last season just Evans, Chadli, Rondon, Foster. 

Our rivals haven’t got many household names.  Read through the Leeds squad for tomorrow, would people seriously swap theirs for ours?  Ditto Sheffield Utd and Norwich.

No other clubs really come close maybe Villa, Stoke.

RE: expectations some people say there was disruption with a rookie manager, new playing style, new division, even looking at the Sunlun, Dingles examples.

Others just say after 46 games we should prevail due to have the strongest squad/team.

Overall I just can’t see how football fans can make a case for other teams over ours?

[Dexy]

You can go round and round in circles all day on this but for me names on paper mean nothing as seen with our relegation last season . I also believe it's no surprise that some of the teams doing well have been building for two or three seasons .

[Dan]

We surely do have the strongest squad in the league.  We still got to 32pts with one of the worst managers in our history (Pardew). 

The board have been proactive with adding players.  We haven’t lost many from last season just Evans, Chadli, Rondon, Foster. 

Our rivals haven’t got many household names.  Read through the Leeds squad for tomorrow, would people seriously swap theirs for ours?  Ditto Sheffield Utd and Norwich.

No other clubs really come close maybe Villa, Stoke.

RE: expectations some people say there was disruption with a rookie manager, new playing style, new division, even looking at the Sunlun, Dingles examples.

Others just say after 46 games we should prevail due to have the strongest squad/team.

Overall I just can’t see how football fans can make a case for other teams over ours?

Which was everything to do with Moore, before he came in we were on for one of the lowest points totals ever.

In general our team isn't that good, lots of people rating names over anything a lot of these players have done in recent times.

[timdon]

Yes I rate him highly at this level. He isn’t the best but I agree with the poster who said his quality and ability is in the best 5 or 6, although I don’t think he’s doing himself justice. If we assume 4 forwards per club that’s 96 so he is better than the majority. Also agree with the poster before that we have one of those few better in Gayle (bizarrely in the prem you may get more from jay than Gayle in a struggling side)

As for when he’s been at his best, that’s easy but sadly a long time ago in football terms now and without doubt 13-14 at Southampton. 1 in 2 season, England cap and talk of a big move to spurs. I don’t think any other player in the champ has hit that height in their careeer albeit short lived due to injuries (bar the older pros like Barry and Cole).

I honestly believe JR and the squad in general is capable of more, and like I said, I don’t think it’s his attitude. Even playing poorly nobodies really dominated us.

Exactly. So if it's a question of getting the best out of him, several managers have failed with him since then. DM has probably done about the best with him in the last 6 or 7 years. Personally I don't think he was ever as good after his injury

[GREGMT]

Which was everything to do with Moore, before he came in we were on for one of the lowest points totals ever.

In general our team isn't that good, lots of people rating names over anything a lot of these players have done in recent times.

Good point about Darren Moore's achievements last season.

However, you need to evaluate the other Championship squads then compare them to ours.  There is not much quality flying around IMO.

[Nathan]

Good point about Darren Moore's achievements last season.

However, you need to evaluate the other Championship squads then compare them to ours.  There is not much quality flying around IMO.

The thing about Darren Moore's 'achievements' last season is that in all honesty how much of the improved set of results in the last 6 games was down to him? In my opinion the answer is very little. It's the same scenario this season with Manchester United, the players obviously didn't want to play for/perform for Jose Mourinho yet they miraculously improved IMMEDIATELY after he left. I don't think Solskjaer would even begin to take credit for such a drastic, immediate change! Our players quite clearly didn't want to play for Pardew. Anybody (within reason) appointed manager would have seen an improved performance, not because of him, but because of the change in the willingness of the players to perform. Moore was extremely lucky to get the job on the back of this. I agree with your final point, the Championship is extremely poor this season.

[seteefeet]

The thing about Darren Moore's 'achievements' last season is that in all honesty how much of the improved set of results in the last 6 games was down to him? In my opinion the answer is very little. It's the same scenario this season with Manchester United, the players obviously didn't want to play for/perform for Jose Mourinho yet they miraculously improved IMMEDIATELY after he left. I don't think Solskjaer would even begin to take credit for such a drastic, immediate change! Our players quite clearly didn't want to play for Pardew. Anybody (within reason) appointed manager would have seen an improved performance, not because of him, but because of the change in the willingness of the players to perform. Moore was extremely lucky to get the job on the back of this. I agree with your final point, the Championship is extremely poor this season.

Using that rationale, you are saying that the players in question, many of whom are still here, deliberately under-performed in order to lose games, just to get the manager the sack, even though it meant certain relegation? If that's true then we can't possibly have the best squad in the division, can we as this would be despicable behaviour.

Even if it was true, why did we not see an upturn when Pardew took over?

I think you are finding ways to discredit Moore's achievements to back up your argument against him.