[BoingFlyer]

Because the league is full of dross, and individual performances, notably from Gayle, Barnes, and Phillips, have seen us overcome tactical issues to win games.

Leeds have lost 4 of their last 6, and we don't seem to be any closer to them than we were 6 games ago. 2 wins in 9 at home. He's really starting to look out of his depth. If the fans can continually see the problems, why can't he?

Seeing the problems is one thing and doing something about them is another. Barnes has gone, not Moore's fault, Phillips is injured, not Moore's fault, Livermoore seeing red, not Moore's fault. Loosing those two (Phillips & Barnes) means teams can mark and hold there shape better against Gayle (who was also injured for a while). He has let the kids have a go which many of Moore's critics wanted to see and now complain when we have dropped points.

What has Moore done? Identified weakness and bought in 3 very good players to counter that weakness.

[FallOutBoy]

That's a worse record than ours, is Bielsa also out of his depth?

Given his long term track record, and the fact that he's doing better in the league with an arguably lesser group of players, I'm going to say no.

[FallOutBoy]

Seeing the problems is one thing and doing something about them is another. Barnes has gone, not Moore's fault, Phillips is injured, not Moore's fault, Livermoore seeing red, not Moore's fault. Loosing those two (Phillips & Barnes) means teams can mark and hold there shape better against Gayle (who was also injured for a while). He has let the kids have a go which many of Moore's critics wanted to see and now complain when we have dropped points.

What has Moore done? Identified weakness and bought in 3 very good players to counter that weakness.

I'm not complaining about him playing the kids, in fact it's been one of the recent positives that they've come in and not looked out of place. But as with other things he's done, you get the feeling he was forced into it rather than it being his choice.

The problems go deeper than Barnes being gone, Phillips being injured, and Livermore suspended (although there is an argument that last one improved the team). It's tactical issues which you can understand to start with, but when they are apparent to fans and opposition managers, need to be corrected. But we've had the same issues from the opening day against Bolton, and all the personnel changes aren't going to affect that.

[GREGMT]

I don't know, I don't watch them every week. From what I have seen though, they look pretty decent so I'm sure they have players who would give the likes of Johnstone, Dawson, Livermore, Brunt, Rodriguez, Field, Harper, Barry, Kanu and Morrison a run for their money.

That's you trouble mate you haven't watched the other teams, so are oblivious to their strengths/weaknesses.

How much is Sheff Utd's / Leeds / Norwich's wage bill compared to ours?  (Sheff Utd operate on about 20% of the wage bill).

[Windmill Baggy]

Given his long term track record, and the fact that he's doing better in the league with an arguably lesser group of players, I'm going to say no.

The problem with saying they have a lesser group of players is that we only look strong when everyone is fit, and there has hardly been a run of games this season where that has happened.

Dawson missed out early in the season, Gayle missed a chunk of games not that far back, Barnes was recalled a few weeks ago and Phillips has missed the last handful of games. We also played the first 5 months without a recognised right-back, a major weakness.

On Saturday we fielded a very strong back four, and had Gayle up-front. Nobody else in that starting XI is exceptional for this level.

Field, Harper, Kanu, Johnstone, Brunt etc. wouldn't get near Boro's, Leeds', Norwich's or Sheffield Utd's XI's.

[GREGMT]

My own observations from WBA season 2018/19:

1) Bartley played way too long and was making regular mistakes until he was belatedly removed.
2) Brunt CM for a spell of around 10 games running, why?
3) No natural right-back so Tosin played out of position for first half of the season.
4) Harper not selected until the New Year when he looks at home at this level.
5) HRK getting regular game time when looking below par.
6) Livermore quite ordinary, not enough pressure on his place.
7) Johnstone better than Bond or vice versa?
No settled starting 11 throughout the season.
9) 3 free agents signed, 2 of those short of game time (Sako, Hololahan).  Why was this?
10) 3 incoming players on 31st Jan are they better than what we have, where do they fit in?

You would expect mistakes early on, but a new Manager to learn from them over time. 

Moore has the benefit of overseeing training pretty much everyday.  What does he see?

Even Pulis has stated we have the best squad in the league (oblivious to some on here).

This is not some snap judgement, 30 odd games have now gone by.

[seteefeet]

That's you trouble mate you haven't watched the other teams, so are oblivious to their strengths/weaknesses.

How much is Sheff Utd's / Leeds / Norwich's wage bill compared to ours?  (Sheff Utd operate on about 20% of the wage bill).

I said I don't watch them every week mate, which unless you have a time machine, I presume you don't either, unless you expect me to believe that you record every game in the division and watch the full 90 mins.
Your trouble mate, is that you have ingrained yourself so much in your dissent against Moore that you can't see any positives. You have the opposite of rose tinted specs.
I'm no happy clapper and am more than happy to criticise his shortcomings, but I also recognise his strengths. that's what a balanced argument is about.
I'm not interested in wage bills, they prove nothing. What I am happy to admit is that Norwich, Leeds and Sheffield United are slightly better than us at present. What that also means though, whether you like it or not, is that we are better than the other 20 teams in the division.

[Albionic]

Nice to see we are all MATES !!   

[GREGMT]

I said I don't watch them every week mate, which unless you have a time machine, I presume you don't either, unless you expect me to believe that you record every game in the division and watch the full 90 mins.
Your trouble mate, is that you have ingrained yourself so much in your dissent against Moore that you can't see any positives. You have the opposite of rose tinted specs.
I'm no happy clapper and am more than happy to criticise his shortcomings, but I also recognise his strengths. that's what a balanced argument is about.
I'm not interested in wage bills, they prove nothing. What I am happy to admit is that Norwich, Leeds and Sheffield United are slightly better than us at present. What that also means though, whether you like it or not, is that we are better than the other 20 teams in the division.

Bollox.  When have you criticised him? 

That's wonderful that we are above the other 20 clubs, we can have an open-top bus in May to celebrate! 

We should be one of the leading lights in this division because we have more MONEY.  So with that comes expectation.  It seems you are content with us being the underdogs.  I think you are stuck in a time machine: 1993-94 under Burkinshaw!

There's a lot of dissenting voices (not only mine).

[BoingFlyer]

I'm not complaining about him playing the kids, in fact it's been one of the recent positives that they've come in and not looked out of place. But as with other things he's done, you get the feeling he was forced into it rather than it being his choice.

The problems go deeper than Barnes being gone, Phillips being injured, and Livermore suspended (although there is an argument that last one improved the team). It's tactical issues which you can understand to start with, but when they are apparent to fans and opposition managers, need to be corrected. But we've had the same issues from the opening day against Bolton, and all the personnel changes aren't going to affect that.

The Bolton game? The one where we had 20 odd shots hit the woodwork several times bought on Burke to see out the last 15 and conceded a last minute goal. His options on the bench were woeful for that game plus the backroom staff was an absolute mess from DoF down and our first team coach had been busy beating England in the 3rd place world cup final.

The 3-5-2 worked well until the Blues game when everyone worked out how to beat us at it pushing and he rightfully changed tactics to 4-3-3. There is a question mark if we should re-look at 4,4,2 but that still gives me nightmares from last season. I would say after the appointment of Pardrew he was given the same mandate to play more attractive football.

Looking at his tactical change on Wednesday when Pulis went behind and chucked on the kitchen sink at us. Just before their goal Moor'e went 4-4-2, taking off HRK for Murphy.  He then took Barry and Field off for Livermore and Brunt, both very experienced and capable of seeing 20 minutes of a game out. Looking at what was left on the bench I fail to see how those decisions are tactically incompetent.

[seteefeet]

Bollox.  When have you criticised him? 

That's wonderful that we are above the other 20 clubs, we can have an open-top bus in May to celebrate! 

We should be one of the leading lights in this division because we have more MONEY.  So with that comes expectation.  It seems you are content with us being the underdogs.  I think you are stuck in a time machine: 1993-94 under Burkinshaw!

There's a lot of dissenting voices (not only mine).

The same as everyone else with regards 3 at the back, Brunt in CM, sub timings etc. If you take your dirty brown specs off you may actually be able to read a balanced post.
He's not perfect and does make mistakes, but he's doing a decent job, with what he has available
You still haven't answered my earlier question about what 11 you would have sent out on Saturday. If he made such an almighty hash of his selection, then surely that should be easy?

[iwastherein68]

The same as everyone else with regards 3 at the back, Brunt in CM, sub timings etc. If you take your dirty brown specs off you may actually be able to read a balanced post.
He's not perfect and does make mistakes, but he's doing a decent job, with what he has available
You still haven't answered my earlier question about what 11 you would have sent out on Saturday. If he made such an almighty hash of his selection, then surely that should be easy?

Nor have you answered his question of why we are 7 points behind ?

[iwastherein68]

I am the umpire here by the way

[seteefeet]

Nor have you answered his question of why we are 7 points behind ?

I thought I had addressed that but, just for clarity.
We are 7 points behind because they have won or drawn more games than we have. This leads me to believe that they are slightly better than us at this moment in time.
Regardless of wages or reputations, they have a better, more consistent starting 11.
Moore cannot be absolved from responsibility for this but nor should he be hung out to dry.

[Oldbury24]

That's you trouble mate you haven't watched the other teams, so are oblivious to their strengths/weaknesses.

How much is Sheff Utd's / Leeds / Norwich's wage bill compared to ours?  (Sheff Utd operate on about 20% of the wage bill).

That tells you more about the ridiculous salaries being handed out in the Premier League.  Decent players they may be, but there is no way that the like of Dawson, 36 year old Barry, Livermore, JRod and HRK just for example are worth the money they are being paid in comparison to their peers at the like of Sheff Utd if your 20% stat is any where near correct. They are NOT 5 times better players they just signed a contract at the right time.   

I like HRK.....but i try not to think about the long term contract he was given when he is obviously no more than an average Championship journey-man who would not get in any of the top four sides on a regular basis. We all admire Dawson but saw him ripped up on Saturday and Barry is just outrun at times.  Livermore is an incredibly average midfielder who would not stand out in any of the top teams and Brunty must be on a decent wedge purely from his yearly % inflation rise.    JRod who i imagine is another high earner is a technically decent player but i just don't see him being top level any more (Burnley were interested, but then they just took Crouchy). I can only make a guess at what their combined wage must be?  Being on a Premier League wage (even after the reduction) does not automatically make a Premier League player.

[iwastherein68]

I thought I had addressed that but, just for clarity.
We are 7 points behind because they have won or drawn more games than we have. This leads me to believe that they are slightly better than us at this moment in time.
Regardless of wages or reputations, they have a better, more consistent starting 11.
Moore cannot be absolved from responsibility for this but nor should he be hung out to dry.

40-30

[BoingFlyer]

I thought I had addressed that but, just for clarity.
We are 7 points behind because they have won or drawn more games than we have. This leads me to believe that they are slightly better than us at this moment in time.
Regardless of wages or reputations, they have a better, more consistent starting 11.
Moore cannot be absolved from responsibility for this but nor should he be hung out to dry.

We also have a game in hand....

[GREGMT]

The same as everyone else with regards 3 at the back, Brunt in CM, sub timings etc. If you take your dirty brown specs off you may actually be able to read a balanced post.
He's not perfect and does make mistakes, but he's doing a decent job, with what he has available
You still haven't answered my earlier question about what 11 you would have sent out on Saturday. If he made such an almighty hash of his selection, then surely that should be easy?

Hey sunshine, what does this "dirty brown specs" business mean?  I along with loads of others have the gall to criticise our Manager yet the mud is slung in my direction, why hit a nerve?

Middlesbrough is 1/30 of games played which 3.33% of league games, not a big sample is it to use? 

The fact that mistakes have been made regularly from earlier in the season means we are behind the 8 ball in terms of Top Two.  Therefore, maybe there is "not much credit left in the bank".

Middlesbrough (H)

1) Bond
2) Holgate
3) Gibbs
4) Dawson
5) Hegazi
6) Barry
7) Harper
Livermore
9) J Rod
10) Gayle
11) Leko

Subs:

Johnstone
Tosin
Townsend
Field
Johansen
Montero
HRK
 

[iwastherein68]

Hey sunshine, what does this "dirty brown specs" business mean?  I along with loads of others have the gall to criticise our Manager yet the mud is slung in my direction, why hit a nerve?

Middlesbrough is 1/30 of games played which 3.33% of league games, not a big sample is it to use? 

The fact that mistakes have been made regularly from earlier in the season means we are behind the 8 ball in terms of Top Two.  Therefore, maybe there is "not much credit left in the bank".

Middlesbrough (H)

1) Bond
2) Holgate
3) Gibbs
4) Dawson
5) Hegazi
6) Barry
7) Harper
Livermore
9) J Rod
10) Gayle
11) Leko

Subs:

Johnstone
Tosin
Townsend
Field
Johansen
Montero
HRK
 

Deuce, and I would call it a day there chaps , you are never going to agree, and I shall retire as umpire. For what it's worth Darren is not good enough and I believe it will all end in tears.

[GREGMT]

I hope we finish Top 2, and me and the other critics can eat humble pie over the Summer.

Over to the Manager and Players.....

[seteefeet]

Hey sunshine, what does this "dirty brown specs" business mean?  I along with loads of others have the gall to criticise our Manager yet the mud is slung in my direction, why hit a nerve?

Middlesbrough is 1/30 of games played which 3.33% of league games, not a big sample is it to use? 

The fact that mistakes have been made regularly from earlier in the season means we are behind the 8 ball in terms of Top Two.  Therefore, maybe there is "not much credit left in the bank".

Middlesbrough (H)

1) Bond
2) Holgate
3) Gibbs
4) Dawson
5) Hegazi
6) Barry
7) Harper
Livermore
9) J Rod
10) Gayle
11) Leko

Subs:

Johnstone
Tosin
Townsend
Field
Johansen
Montero
HRK
 

That was in response to this statement:
Bollox.  When have you criticised him? As I took it that you were suggesting that I looked through "Rose tinted glasses", therefore a little self indulgent play on words. Sorry sunshine.

Fair play on that 11. Personally I don't think Leko has done anywhere near enough to start, whilst Field had done enough to keep his shirt and played pretty well to be fair. I'll give you Bond though, that's the only one that could feasibly have made any difference to the result. I've been critical of Johnstone myself and have already said in another thread that if Bond plays well on Wednesday then he should be considered.

Leko aside, you may get your chosen 11 on Saturday, so the proof may be in the pudding.

[Albionic]

The same as everyone else with regards 3 at the back, Brunt in CM, sub timings etc. If you take your dirty brown specs off you may actually be able to read a balanced post.
He's not perfect and does make mistakes, but he's doing a decent job, with what he has available
You still haven't answered my earlier question about what 11 you would have sent out on Saturday. If he made such an almighty hash of his selection, then surely that should be easy?

perhaps I can help

G.Banks
Roberto Carlos
Maldini
Koemans
Statham
Maradona
Robson
Iniesta
Zidane
Messi
Pele

subs:- Joe Mayo, Jason Van Blerk, Tininhio, Scott Darlow, who needs bloody subs anyway withthat team

[paulosull]

Has to sort out defense or we will be lucky to get into play offs, I'd say 90 percent of Forum are happy with back four that started against boro. Bond looks a better option in goal from what I've seen of him so Darren should give him a go and maybe he's the solution to leaky back line. Midfield has been crying out for a player who can put his foot on ball and pick a pass either Wes or Johansen could fill that role. Maybe we need to go 442 to see if this formation suits players, last point Brunt and HRK should be no where near first team.

[wba_1996]

He was under absolutely no pressure to bring Brunt on. You can't blame him for individual mistakes, but you can blame him for bringing on an ageing player in a position he has never looked comfortable in when there was no need to. Bar Jacko, would anyone on here have brought Brunt on at that moment in time? It should have been Montero and a shift to 4231. Even a not-quite-fit Johansen would have been a better option.

As for the Johnstone/Barry mistake, again not his direct fault, but why is he asking a goalkeeper with poor distribution to play as a sweeper keeper? He's no Neuer or Alisson, he's proven that consistently this season and been caught out doing it multiple times, anyone with an ounce of tactical nous would either stop the keeper playing it out with his feet or change to a different keeper.

[GREGMT]

perhaps I can help

G.Banks
Roberto Carlos
Maldini
Koemans
Statham
Maradona
Robson
Iniesta
Zidane
Messi
Pele

subs:- Joe Mayo, Jason Van Blerk, Tininhio, Scott Darlow, who needs bloody subs anyway withthat team

and the point of this is......