[Aztech]

Compared to the other two he's a super heavyweight with a ball magnet in his feet.

I’d suggest Robson-Kanu has a floor magnet in his backside

[gavinrussell]

Livermore looks more like a boxer than a footballer..

[Droitwich Baggie]

One puff, and he is over.

[OldburyWBA]

Haven't replaced Barnes, since he's gone we've created hardly anything, the new signings are not the same quality from showings so far.

[iwastherein68]

I’d suggest Robson-Kanu has a floor magnet in his backside

Nice one Aztech

[Droitwich Baggie]

I’d suggest Robson-Kanu has a floor magnet in his backside

Yup.

[TheJacko2000]

I’d suggest Robson-Kanu has a floor magnet in his backside

Class 


Still better at the qualities of not being a lightweight and holding up the ball than our other strikers.


And there are people who don't think Rondon would transform this team.

[paulosull]

I’d suggest Robson-Kanu has a floor magnet in his backside

it's big enough

[Droitwich Baggie]

Do you mean he likes to twerk?

[seteefeet]

Livermore looks more like a boxer than a footballer..

Like a boxer running in custard.

[paulosull]

Like a boxer running in custard.

bloke can't run

[beechyboy90]

We haven't replaced Barnes and haven't managed to get Phillips fit and back into team.
Murphy began to look promising then got injured.
Rodriguez has been poor for some time. Gayle also poor but playing as a winger.
Harper has been played too much has lost his confidence.

We have stopped scoring goals due to creating less chances. We either need to go 2 up top and play 2 wingers and 2 in cm which may well be a disaster. Or 2 up top somebody in free role and rely on the full backs bombing on. Or thirdly drop one of Rodriguez or Gayle and play 2 of; Murphy Phillips montero as out and out wing forwards

[Baggies]

Moore & Jones needed to find a way to replace Barnes impact, while not actually having a Barnes like player to replace him with. This required imagination, a willing to change things around and the bravery to drop some big names.

All 3 requirements have not been enacted.

We don’t have a player who does what Barnes does, or has the same level of quality, and we have been hampered further by losing Phillips (a huge double blow to our season).

We do however have Murphy who can play a direct role from the wing, we have Johansson who at Fulham was able to chip in with goals and assists while playing in a midfield 3 last year, we have Montero as an impact sub and could use the likes of Brunt and Morrison as change players.

We should have looked to potentially drop one of Rodriguez and Gayle, and tried to rework our attacking play, but Moore is infatuated by Livermore, meaning we shoe horn in 3 players who add little to our attacking play in midfield.

Unless Moore finds a way to connect our midfield and attack into an effective unit inthe remaining games, we stand no chance of winning the playoffs, and will actually be in danger of dropping out completely.

[gavinrussell]

Class 


Still better at the qualities of not being a lightweight and holding up the ball than our other strikers.


And there are people who don't think Rondon would transform this team.

I can't image Sal would want to come back even if we were promoted..

[johnny Cash]

Haven't replaced Barnes, since he's gone we've created hardly anything, the new signings are not the same quality from showings so far.

I agree, but sadly Barnes is almost irreplaceable at this level.

As for system, tactics etc I still think 433 is the way to go, but how the are being asked and instructed to do it clearly needs to change.

[Dexy]

Haven't replaced Barnes, since he's gone we've created hardly anything, the new signings are not the same quality from showings so far.

Murphy has done ok , enough to start for me last night . Again they baffle me , no wide option and no out ball.

[Atomic]

I agree, but sadly Barnes is almost irreplaceable at this level.

As for system, tactics etc I still think 433 is the way to go, but how the are being asked and instructed to do it clearly needs to change.

I sort of agree although you do have to have the players. Without Barnes we've lost a bit and without Phillips driving forward from midfield we've lost a bit more. The ball carriers, the quality, the penetration all gone.

We can chop and change systems but that's not always the answer sometimes it's about mentality and how you approach games. Our approach seems to be pass the ball at the back, try and beat the press, try and keep the ball. I think it's because this is foremost in our minds we don't play with enough intensity or tempo. When you are missing quality the you have to up your intensity to compensate somewhat for that. We're not doing that.

[caravanc58]

what tactics do we have? i if playing a right sided CH at left back is a tactic I'm going to wash me car in mud. still trying to play out from the back even though teams have sussed we ain't good at it so press us until the inevitable mistake.
3 up front was a shocking system to try away at one of the better teams, who was going to supply them? the same midfield that was atrocious against Sheffield!
playing our best goalscorer out wide in itself is mystifying let alone having two wingers on LOAN sat on the bench.
we need to stop playing the wrong players in a system that tactically is failing.

[Dexy]

Personally think at times Moore / Jones complicate things , I'd like something more simple like a 4 4 2 dropping into a 4 5 1 without the ball  or 4 2 3 1 .
                                           Johnstone / Bond
Holgate                     Dawson                 Hegazi            Gibbs

                                           Barry           Johanson

Phillips                                       Jrod / Morrison           Murphy
                                                Gayle

[baggie96]

The 433 when Barnes and Phillips were playing was basically a 442 with the ball as Barnes was wide left and Phillips still went up and down the right. This allowed Gayle to go into the middle when we had the ball. When we didn’t have the ball Gayle would chase back down the right and Phillips would tuck in. This worked and by adding Holgate for adarabioyo I’m confident it be extremely effective.

Unfortunately we lost the two main players to this system in Barnes and Phillips. The 433 now is too rigid, harper is not as good as Phillips meaning Gayle has to stay out wide, albeit mainly on the left. The only way this system would work again is by putting Murphy out left doing the Barnes role and getting Phillips back in the right centre mid position urgently. We also only need one of Livermore and Barry. With harper, Morrison or johansen completing the midfield 3.

Johnstone
Holgate Dawson Hegazi Gibbs
Phillips Livermore johansen
Gayle jrod Murphy

That team would work but I don’t think Moore can see it.

[Standaman]

Okay where are we at the moment? Last night we ran into a very good Leeds performance and no other team we are going play like it between now and the end of the season. To some extent fixing our line up to counter it is pointless and equally I'm not sure with the personnel we have exactly how we would have countered it.

However last night did highlight some issues that have been self evident for a few games.

1. Gayle's form has dipped. There might be arguments about whether he should be a wide forward (wide players in a 4-3-3 are not traditional wingers) but he is not the force he once was not just the scoring output which is heavily dependent on others making chances but the intensity and effectiveness of his work outside the box. 

2. Phillips was a key component of the 3 man midfield but he has been injured and as is often the case looking off the pace since his return. If we are being honest we might not see the good Phillips again this season which throws out the simple solution of reverting to that set up. Also Holgate changes the dynamic on the right side of the pitch.

3. The midfield in almost any combination remains broken. Barry's brief Indian summer seems to be over and Livermore is a nothing midfielder not a box to box Central Mid nor deep sitting playmaker perhaps a DM but we don't need one let alone 2. Johanson has been a little disappointing maybe it is too soon to declare him a bust but something needs to happen there quickly. Otherwise we are placing an awful lot of resposibility on the young shoulders of Harper and Field.

In a typical a 4-3-3 the 3 midfielders are set up in a triangle with a playmaker at the point of the triangle either in front of 2 central mids or behind them. How this is set up rather depends on whether the playmaker is comfortable getting forward or sitting deep. Although a deep sitting playmaker tends to be associated with high pressing teams whereas a team more inclined to counter will have the playmaker playing ahead of the central mids. We haven't got a number 10 (Morrison maybe but not sure what he has got left in the tank) so our default is the deep sitting playmaker. Can't offer a solution for this there isn't one. Maybe

                                                                   Field

                                                           Johanson Harper

but I wouldn't want to bet much on it being effective.

4. Playing out from the back. I know it gives everyone kittens but I can't see any other playing with the forwards we have as soon as we go long we lose possession. HRK is the only player remotely comfortable playing with his back to goal (incedently Leeds put Cooper on him even when he was outwide to cut off that ball.) and losing Barnes actually does not help here. Even though Barnes was hardly the rugged target man he was better at keeping possesion than Gayle.


To be honest I think this is now very much make do and mend between now and the end of the season. Can we get over the line? I'm not optimistic on recent evidence (oddly enough the Sheffiled game was more concerning than the Leeds one because Leeds played out of their skins Sheffield didn't)


       

[mulliganstired]

On the subject here, I can't think there is anyone left in the country who thinks we will stay set up as we have been.  I just wanted to point out in defence of Moore that at half-time the other Saturday (or maybe until just before, I can't recall), Leeds and Norwich were both losing, and if that had stayed the same we would have gone top on GD by beating Sheff Utd.  So it was only really after we lost, after a game and a half's playing time from half time in  the 3.00 kick offs, that it was no longer possible to defend what we have been doing - I think Moore lost his nerve a bit by picking the same midfield for Leeds, and the Toisin selection distracted him, so while it is a major cock-up and blemish for him, you can see why he hesitated to change, you could have argued it was working overall until the last 2 games, in spite of everyone and his granny on here (including me) howling about the tippy tappy from the back.

[chipperclark]

  Gayle has to play in the middle .He is a "goal poacher" and needs through balls to his feet and he can then"spin his magic". His best work comes from anywhere around the 10 yards from goal with crisp passes to his feet. His form has dropped on the wing,where he is wasted.

 JRod should be within 10 yards of Gayle feeding him the "flickons" and getting into scoring positions himself.

Need Phillips,Murphy/Harper and Livermore/Johansen supplying the bullets. With Barry or Field holding.

[GREGMT]

We certainly got away with the result v Swansea.  On another night we could've conceded 5.  For me Nathan Dyer pretty much ran the game and we miss having a player like him.  30% possession at home to a Championship side is a worrying stat.  If you cast your mind back to the away match at the Liberty it was more like 50% and a closely fought game.

My observations post Swansea (h):

1) The midfield was hopelessly deep.  Rodriguez is affected because he wants to play "back to goal" and there is a lack of link play with the midfield, who are not advanced.  It is reducing his effectiveness. 
2) Livermore was pretty awful and had a very limited impact on the game.  If we are using Brunt OR Barry in a central 3 then Harper HAS to play.  For me we also need the most mobile player in there and I would advocate Tosin.  He is a natural at carrying the ball and has good pace.  This can make up for the lack of defensive qualities in Brunt/Barry and free them up for what they're good at.  It will also make it harder for the opposition to play through us.  As stated, Livermore is not doing enough currently IMO.
3) I still see a lack of chemistry and link up between Gayle and Rodriguez.  They both just look isolated forwards playing individually.  I say it again pick ONE.  Gayle looks more suited to our set up and can play on the shoulder of the last defender which allows us to mix the play more.   
4) With our static midfield, it's surely imperative to utilise 2 wingers to ask the questions of the opposition that we are not doing consistently through the centre?  We have 3 options; Murphy, Phillips, Montero.
5) If Gibbs and Holgate don't play then our threat from the flanks is diminished further as Townsend and Mears are more defensive options.
6) The seismic impact that Harvery Barnes is starting to resonate with all WBA supporters.  I think we can all be guilty of underestimating the true impact of his loss to the team.  It's a similar thing as to when Grealish was out of the Villa team.

I expect we'll set up to frustrate Brentford rather than us playing on the front foot.  Let's hope they don't have their shooting boots on!

I don't enjoy being negative but I still think we look disjointed.

[KN22]

You make some very good points Greg but don't get too hung up on the possession stats. Shan set us up to deliberately invite Swansea to have the lion's share of possession so the outcome stats were inevitable. I think last night was a pragmatic win at all costs performance and we managed to do so. I take the positives from that. What is blatantly clear is that we need a new man at the helm, and quickly, who fully understands this division tactically. I would also disagree about Tosin. Given his background he is a very poor passer of the ball IMO.