Author Topic: Albion and Wolves  (Read 14042 times)

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divinewind

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Albion and Wolves
« on: September 07, 2011, 05:14:25 AM »
The difference in outlooks.

Both similar sized clubs and with good and bad periods of their history evident.

Apart from a very good period in the fifties wolves have been run of the mill.We have been more consistent as a top flight club with the 1990's being the only decade we didn't grace the top flight.

Yet the attitude of both sets of fans is startling.

Wolves fans don't take being in the prem as something to be grateful for,or harp back to how bad things were.They demand to be there by rights and talk about top half finishes.

Coming on sites like this our fans seem grateful to be given the chance to compete against big clubs like Wigan and start threads about how bad we were in the 1990's.

OK we all know that wolves fans are delusional,but their expectations put pressure on their board to push on and they get results from it.
Morgan is making Molineux a huge ground and so will expect not to be relegated.
their ambition grows season by season.

Our happy clappers by contrast put no pressure on our board.We accept the ground shrinking year after year,the inactivity of the transfer window,no parardes and being charged a tenner to see a trophy we hadn't won for 90 years.

We accept all of this because we are lucky to be here after the 1990's.

After all,we could have gone the way of Bradford,leeds,Forest.............and Wolves. ;)

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2011, 06:53:23 AM »
Of course this comment is just a opinion! You are completely misguided to use the wolves as a reference point! You do not mention when they had the bhatti brothers in charge nor when the w'ton council put 1 penny on every household rates to save the wolves. I lived in w'ton at the time & was appalled. I held back this penny with no come back at all! Nor is there any mention of hayward coming along to turn a slum into a reasonable ground! Wolves have wasted millions on rubbish & rubbish managers & are still not in advance of the Albion nor likely to ever challenge at the top! Now compare were the Albion are! No money man to invest millions, a lovely ground & the ability to punch above its weight!
Albion supporters by and large live in the real world! Wolves fans well? My reply has nothing to do with dislike for that club but to offer any club as a yard stick to go by it really AIN'T THE WOLVES now is it???

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 06:56:51 AM »
Our wage bill is the same, if not bigger as they cap theirs at £30m.
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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 11:51:43 AM »
Quote
Of course this comment is just a opinion! You are completely misguided to use the wolves as a reference point! You do not mention when they had the bhatti brothers in charge nor when the w'ton council put 1 penny on every household rates to save the wolves. I lived in w'ton at the time & was appalled. I held back this penny with no come back at all! Nor is there any mention of hayward coming along to turn a slum into a reasonable ground! Wolves have wasted millions on rubbish & rubbish managers & are still not in advance of the Albion nor likely to ever challenge at the top! Now compare were the Albion are! No money man to invest millions, a lovely ground & the ability to punch above its weight!
Albion supporters by and large live in the real world! Wolves fans well? My reply has nothing to do with dislike for that club but to offer any club as a yard stick to go by it really AIN'T THE WOLVES now is it???

Like you say we have wasted millions on poor managers and poor players i guess thats why your approach has seen us both at the same sort of level. The fact is though we believe in our club and believe we can and will be a very good top flight club again one day and we demand this from our owner and players. I dont see this as delusional i see it as ambitious. You lot(the majority) however do seem happy to just be in the top flight as does you chairman. Nothing wrong with ambition it seems yours matches what your chairman wants and ours matches what our chairman wants. The progress we have made under morgan is nothing but amazing imo and thats all it is i think in another 5 years time we will have progressed to the point where we are clearly ahead of you in ground size , attendances and most importantly on the football pitch. We are both similar sized clubs if we can build a 36k stadium why cant you? Nothing wrong with ambition guys. I would love to see us two as the top dogs in the midlands really put the black country derby back on the map!

crazedwbafan18

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2011, 12:00:07 PM »
Like you say we have wasted millions on poor managers and poor players i guess thats why your approach has seen us both at the same sort of level. The fact is though we believe in our club and believe we can and will be a very good top flight club again one day and we demand this from our owner and players. I dont see this as delusional i see it as ambitious. You lot(the majority) however do seem happy to just be in the top flight as does you chairman. Nothing wrong with ambition it seems yours matches what your chairman wants and ours matches what our chairman wants. The progress we have made under morgan is nothing but amazing imo and thats all it is i think in another 5 years time we will have progressed to the point where we are clearly ahead of you in ground size , attendances and most importantly on the football pitch. We are both similar sized clubs if we can build a 36k stadium why cant you? Nothing wrong with ambition guys. I would love to see us two as the top dogs in the midlands really put the black country derby back on the map!

well i think the first two years are about survival, and then in your third season as you suggest it is all about pushing on and showing some ambition. we are just being cautious, and anything over bare survival last year was a bonus. this year we have to be cautious of second season syndrome, and our attitude to this season was very similar to yours last. i dont think you can confidently say you will be better than us in all three aspects of pitch/attendances/quality of football, as a lot changes in football in 5 years.

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2011, 12:12:52 PM »
well i think the first two years are about survival, and then in your third season as you suggest it is all about pushing on and showing some ambition. we are just being cautious, and anything over bare survival last year was a bonus. this year we have to be cautious of second season syndrome, and our attitude to this season was very similar to yours last. i dont think you can confidently say you will be better than us in all three aspects of pitch/attendances/quality of football, as a lot changes in football in 5 years.

spot on season 2 stay up season 3 build on number and try finish in top half etc!
and regardless of both clubs a few injuries and both sides could find themselves relegated!

Wolves: Jarvis Doyle Johnson
Albion: Odemwingie, mulumbu Olsson

any of the above get injured or 2 or 3 for each club were to get injured i think both sides would struggle and could well be staring relegation in the face.
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Ogwani

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2011, 12:25:39 PM »
We had by far a stronger team than Wolves at the end of last season. They now probably have a stronger team than us. They're getting a stadium expansion, money is being thrown around and they've improved what they've needed to improve. Wolves were unlucky for big parts of last season, they now look like a Premier League side. Fair play to them.

I don't care how they're doing though, I care about us and you can disagree but I think we've shown a lack of ambition in our transfers this season and we're relying on a tactic change rather than personnel which is dangerous. Hodgson seems to playing more negative football which we don't have the players to do. I'm worried.

The difference is the two chairman.

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2011, 12:35:20 PM »
We had by far a stronger team than Wolves at the end of last season. They now probably have a stronger team than us. They're getting a stadium expansion, money is being thrown around and they've improved what they've needed to improve. Wolves were unlucky for big parts of last season, they now look like a Premier League side. Fair play to them.

I don't care how they're doing though, I care about us and you can disagree but I think we've shown a lack of ambition in our transfers this season and we're relying on a tactic change rather than personnel which is dangerous. Hodgson seems to playing more negative football which we don't have the players to do. I'm worried.

The difference is the two chairman.
Defensively YES, Midfield NO IMO, Up front SAME. i think its a close to call situation, but in heinsight we are panicking because some of our defensive cover has gone, and the squad on paper in both wolves and albion really hasnt changed all that much. as has been said, wolves strengthened where they needed to, in defence, but as another person said, injuries could make all that difference. Johnson isnt keeping the team powered all by himself. I disagree we had a much stronger team at the end of last season, because things aint changed all that much, apart from a more defensive regime from the attacking blackpool style play RDM adopted. keep the faith, foster and long have been good signings, and it is still early days and we are worrying like we normally do.

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2011, 12:39:19 PM »
1) Wolves have a chairman that is able and willing to put some of his own money in. We don't.

2) To say "the chance to compete against big clubs like Wigan " is manituplative and you know full well what you're doign here. Yet again, the issue with Wigan is a multi-multi millionaire who is willing to gift £10million's

3) If Brum hadn't gone down i have no doubt you'd be stating them as a team with ambition.... but wait a second, something went wrong, they went down and becasue of the financial risks they were playing their squad was destroyed and it looks very unlikely they're coming back anytime soon....... when Albion went down last time we were financially strong, kept the team together, inc the better players like Brunt and came back up with relative ease.

4) We're improving, slowly but surely. I sadly doubt we'll ever be a champions' league club, but Europa (and staying up) is very much attainable. Why risj the gradual build by lurching forward on a gambit?

Ambition is fine, as long as it works, as soon as it doesn't you look like an idiot. Name me one medium sized club that was stretched themselves, without having a wealthy benefactor to fall back on and it's worked out long term?

There are none! Not a single one and many of the ones with sugar daddies have failed also.
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Ogwani

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #9 on: September 07, 2011, 12:44:35 PM »
Defensively YES, Midfield NO IMO, Up front SAME. i think its a close to call situation, but in heinsight we are panicking because some of our defensive cover has gone, and the squad on paper in both wolves and albion really hasnt changed all that much. as has been said, wolves strengthened where they needed to, in defence, but as another person said, injuries could make all that difference. Johnson isnt keeping the team powered all by himself. I disagree we had a much stronger team at the end of last season, because things aint changed all that much, apart from a more defensive regime from the attacking blackpool style play RDM adopted. keep the faith, foster and long have been good signings, and it is still early days and we are worrying like we normally do.

I think Johnson has made the difference though. Imagine if you took Olsson out of our side? I've watched all three of Wolves' games this season and particularly Blackburn and Fulham he was flawless both defensively and going forward. He's a born leader and that's exactly what they needed, someone to shout at and organize their defense.

Midfield is close in fairness. I think we overrate Brunt, I really do. If we were playing Gera, Dorrans, Mulumbu, Brunt in midfield I'd say ours is stronger but we leave out Dorrans and play Morrison. They have O'Hara, Milijas and although I don't rate Henry he does a job. Up front they have Fletcher and Doyle. Now I'd take Odemwingie over both of them but they're both not far behind.

Foster, Long and Gera are good signings don't get me wrong but what's worrying is we seem to be building from the back and we don't have the players to play negatively like we have been doing.

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #10 on: September 07, 2011, 01:00:24 PM »
Olsson is similar to johnson yep, take either out of the side and defensively things look worrying. is it not hard to sustain that level of performance throughout the season though? we had a blinder of a start to last season after the first game and eventually things change. I agree re brunt, especially when he has the captains band he seems to get lost in the game. great free kick taker, great ball crosser, otherwise he has never stood out exceptionally. i dont understand 'playing negatively', we arent looking quite the threat we were last season but then again so far, i think defensively we have looked promising. lots of ifs regarding injuries, but any side of our stature would be the same if one or two players get injured.

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #11 on: September 07, 2011, 01:18:02 PM »
The big difference between the two clubs which will allow Wolves to push on and potentially leave us behind is Steve Morgan. They quite simply can afford the players we can't with his financial backing, the signings of Roger Johnson, Steven Fletcher and Kevin Doyle in recent seasons is probably far more than we could realistically pay, although, our signings in recent years have been just as good for much more cheaper prices. If Wolves stay up this season, more than likely Morgan will spend some more money to take them to the next level, whereas we're careful with what we spend because we're not a club with millions and millions at our disposal.

Also, I happen to think Wolves would of gone down had we beaten them. Their victory against us at the Molineux last season relayed their platforms for survival and with that spend some money to take them to the next level. Would they have signed Johnson for that much money if they were in the championship? No, they wouldn't have. That's the disappointing thing from my point of view. Our players inability to defend and the fact they bottled the biggest match of the season has allowed Wolves to stay up, and ultimately move their club forward.

There's not much to pick between us, although, over the last 10 years we've had the rub of the green with regards to league finishes and head to head battles. They've got two or three players which would get into our side, and we've got three of four which would get into there's.

We're both clubs going places, one at a slower more careful route, whilst the other are spending abit more money without going behind their means.
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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #12 on: September 07, 2011, 01:24:17 PM »
Lets face it folks financially we cant compete.The only thing we have better than them at the moment is our manager.
Lets just hope they mess up with their wealth like they did when Jack Haywood kept frittering cash.
If they hadnt of scored that goal against Blackburn it would have set them back at least 3 years
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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #13 on: September 07, 2011, 01:31:35 PM »
im not sure there better indiviudally then Albion!
player wise we are better!

oedmwingie is better then fletcher
long and doyle are similar

midfield
Jarvis is slighty better then thomas
scharner is better then henry
mulumbu is better then o hara

i could carry on! but i dont need to!

Wolves are good as a collective unit they battled and stayed up by the skin of their teeth! they have added johnson thus have improved abit but not significantly! if they battle and scrap and defend welll like they did last year they will stay up again and finish 13th 14th! dont be fooled by good start.

Albion need to show more of wolves esc battling qualities and grind results out! Going forward we look as any other side in the league we seem to be able to create chances! also think we will be safe and finish 11th 12th etc
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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #14 on: September 07, 2011, 01:37:43 PM »
We had by far a stronger team than Wolves at the end of last season. They now probably have a stronger team than us. They're getting a stadium expansion, money is being thrown around and they've improved what they've needed to improve. Wolves were unlucky for big parts of last season, they now look like a Premier League side. Fair play to them.

I don't care how they're doing though, I care about us and you can disagree but I think we've shown a lack of ambition in our transfers this season and we're relying on a tactic change rather than personnel which is dangerous. Hodgson seems to playing more negative football which we don't have the players to do. I'm worried.

The difference is the two chairman.

Again, our two wage bills are the same - in fact ours may well be higher.
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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #15 on: September 07, 2011, 01:39:07 PM »
Lets face it folks financially we cant compete.The only thing we have better than them at the moment is our manager.
Lets just hope they mess up with their wealth like they did when Jack Haywood kept frittering cash.
If they hadnt of scored that goal against Blackburn it would have set them back at least 3 years
I dont know why people think the goals they scored against blackburn made any difference. Even if wolves had lost 3 nil and birmingham had lost they still wouldve stayed up, because at the end of the day brum had less points than wanderers, and wolves had scored more goals through goal difference. we cant keep rueing the fact they scraped survival, especially how we let them slip through our fingers last season at the molineux. it happened, they stayed up and they are going to rub our noses in it. So what? we have to move on and focus on our own club. great they are looking better than us financially and squadwise, but its every man for himself in this league and when you are on the pitch you are playing the enemy; as you are fighting for points. Let them look down on us if they want to, we have to push on and make do with what we have. we are capable of a midtable finish, and we cannot doubt that.

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #16 on: September 07, 2011, 01:48:10 PM »
midfield

mulumbu is better then o hara

I don't think that's a fair comparison actually. They're two different players that play two different roles. Mulumbu would be better compared against Karl Henry, and O'Hara would be better compared against a more creative player like Graham Dorrans or James Morrison.
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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #17 on: September 07, 2011, 02:26:16 PM »
How much has Morgan ploughed into the playing side though? I haven't seen a great deal of investment. Doyle £7m?, Fletcher £6m?, Johnson £4.5, O'hara £5? All this over 3 summer windows. Not a fantastic amount really is it? Haven't they just spent the money they have generated by being in the Prem. I see no reason why we shouldn't/couldn't spend this kind of money with JP in charge.
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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2011, 02:27:43 PM »
The difference in outlooks.

Both similar sized clubs and with good and bad periods of their history evident.

Apart from a very good period in the fifties wolves have been run of the mill.We have been more consistent as a top flight club with the 1990's being the only decade we didn't grace the top flight.

Yet the attitude of both sets of fans is startling.

Wolves fans don't take being in the prem as something to be grateful for,or harp back to how bad things were.They demand to be there by rights and talk about top half finishes.

Coming on sites like this our fans seem grateful to be given the chance to compete against big clubs like Wigan and start threads about how bad we were in the 1990's.

OK we all know that wolves fans are delusional,but their expectations put pressure on their board to push on and they get results from it.
Morgan is making Molineux a huge ground and so will expect not to be relegated.
their ambition grows season by season.

Our happy clappers by contrast put no pressure on our board.We accept the ground shrinking year after year,the inactivity of the transfer window,no parardes and being charged a tenner to see a trophy we hadn't won for 90 years.

We accept all of this because we are lucky to be here after the 1990's.

After all,we could have gone the way of Bradford,leeds,Forest.............and Wolves. ;)

I agree with this 100% , our fans are giving JP a free ride

I have said before, JP is ambitious, but his ambitions dont involve us the fans.

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #19 on: September 07, 2011, 02:30:43 PM »
I love these little debates where anything that doesn't fit in with the tangent is completely ignored so we can go on burning someone at the stake.

It kind of renders the whole idea of a message board useless.
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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #20 on: September 07, 2011, 03:08:56 PM »
I am sure players and people from the club read these boards,in fact i know they do.I wouldn't be surprised if JP doesn't have a look in from time to time when he isn't counting his money.

It must be music to his ears to hear people say how happy they are with the way he is running things and we don't need to sign players in the window.

At wolves the fans are never satisfied,if they finished 11th this season they would want 8th next season and top four the season after.
Go on any Wolves board,you don't see threads about the bhattis,or how grateful they are to be in the prem,they put up threads about how big their ground will be and what a great club they are with a fantastic history.

On Albion sites people are more negative and talk aboiut how rubbish we used to be,or don't lets go bankrupt.Our fans are far more negative than theirs and their demands for us as a club far far more modest.

We beat wolves into the prem,the same we beat them to everything else.we have spent more time not only in the prem but in the highest league than them.

But we don't have the same arrogance and demands that they have.

We need this to keep pushing our club forward.Stay still,do nothing and we start to go backwards.

JP talks a good fight,but he doesn't let much slip.

he says we are expanding the ground but won't be drawn on which stand.

he put the club up for sale for two months(coincidentally in a transfer window)then took it off again.

He is all smoke and mirrors.

OK i know you have to be careful what you wish for,or who could replace him might not be better or may be far worse.

But my point is i feel we have to keep on giving him an uncomfortable ride to get the best possible chances for us to continue as a premiership club.

Thats my point and the reason i feel we don't make as much noise as our neighbours when it comes to it.We have to learn to push and shove a bit not stand with our caps in our hands.

Our record gates are higher than wolves,everthing wolves have won we won first.We don't have to keep thinking they are bigger than us.We need to show a bit of pride in our club.

Villa,Wolves,Blues ,Albion and walsall,that is the pecking order at the moment,and we are getting smaller and smaller.

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #21 on: September 07, 2011, 03:22:11 PM »
I bow down to your higher intelligence and promise never to have an opinion that differs every again.
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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #22 on: September 07, 2011, 03:49:26 PM »
Divinewind is right our fans are far too "small time" in their thinking.

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #23 on: September 07, 2011, 03:53:32 PM »
I couldn't comment on the attitude of Wolves fans but  I'm guessing if I did look into it, you're giving them far more credit than they deserve.

West Brom fans in general are naturally pessimistic and well grounded and I don't think it's something to be ashamed of. While it's  annoying to see our fans still downplay our chances when we play teams like Man United and Chelsea, I don't think our minimum expectation of surviving this season is an unambitious one considering our past Premier League record.

Comparing our transfers, Wolves in their first summer after survival bought Fletcher for £6 million odd and then filled in a few other positions on the cheap, not too dissimilar to what we've just done. I can't see how our wage bill could be higher when they have Hunt, O'Hara, Johnson, Doyle and Fletcher all surely on over 30k a week. In terms of their squad depth they have Stearman and Ward in their starting line up for goodness sake, players like Elokobi and Vokes in reserve, all Championship quality players.

Their stadium expansion will be good for them if they can fill the stadium and although our plans have not been set in stone yet, it is going to happen. If in a few years we have a 30,000 capacity stadium and Wolves have a 36000 one I won't lose too much sleep about it, 30,000 odd seems right for us at this current time and that's the only thing we should be concerned about,

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Re: Albion and Wolves
« Reply #24 on: September 07, 2011, 03:53:46 PM »
Divinewind is right our fans are far too "small time" in their thinking.

"In your opinion"
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