Just as the above. Desperately looking for a ticket!
Haha no problem Kie.Hopefully mate, really wanted season ticket but work every other weekend!
Fingers crossed for us eh!
I heard a rumour that all we are getting is 1500 tickets.
I heard a rumour that all we are getting is 1500 tickets.
I hope this is a merely a rumour as we should be taking full allocations against our local rivals and I'm sure the full away allocation is double that.
I do wonder if some will be put off with it being a Friday night. Blues away is a not for the faint-hearted; Digbeth High Street is always fun after the game.
I hope this is a merely a rumour as we should be taking full allocations against our local rivals and I'm sure the full away allocation is double that.
I do wonder if some will be put off with it being a Friday night. Blues away is a not for the faint-hearted; Digbeth High Street is always fun after the game.
Always brings a wry smile to my face when posters seem to think this is a friendly derby. Nowhere near as much angst as the others but you still need to watch your back. I've never been to St Andrews on the coach and usually walk there and back from New St via Digbeth High St. The only exception was the Cup game a couple of years back when I drank in the 'new' Hennessey's prior to the game and went via the back streets. My left knee is not in the best of states at the moment though so I may have to make alternate arrangements for this one.
The games themselves tend to be less hostile with neither clubs having any derogatory chants for one another really, but after the game is a different story. You really needed your wits about you after the cup game a couple of years ago - there was a huge turnout from both club's firms and Digbeth High Street was like a bandit country after the game.
Been to blues last 5 or 6 times we’ve played them, always walk from around Bennett’s Hill through Digbeth and not seen anything at all really. FA Cup game a load of Albion got train to New Street but we’re just escorted all the way.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/august/ticket-details-for-blues-clash/
Cheers for that, so it is 2800 in the end and not the rumoured 1500.
Great news, no more rumoures about tickets from me in furture. God help the chap who told me.
I hope you didn't misunderstand my post, I meant that I was glad we have 2800 as we need a decent turnout and there should be less complaints from our fans about getting tickets, I wasn't having a dig about rumours. Obviously I may have misunderstood your post!
Cheers for that, so it is 2800 in the end and not the rumoured 1500.
The first allocation of tickets (today) is for away season ticket holders, the loyalty points bit comes in on Tuesday.
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/august/ticket-details-for-blues-clash/
I know, a faux par on my part but it's pretty obvious that I was referring to the loyalty points section.
Cheers all the same ;D .
Faux pas, oh the irony !
Bet that was on porpoise
I'm clearly not having a good day, must be the heating in here.your wish is my com...
Do be kind enough to bugger off :P :P ;) .
Anyone know how these tickets are going and if there are many left? I can get mine on Friday, ideally wanted to wait for a friend who can get them on Saturday but wondered if either of us stood a chance really..
Anyone know how these tickets are going and if there are many left? I can get mine on Friday, ideally wanted to wait for a friend who can get them on Saturday but wondered if either of us stood a chance really..
527 left as of right now.
Out of the whole allocation?
From what I can tell yes.
Hovered over each block with the mouse and added up as I went along.
How do you check the loyalty points ?
Login online. Click on your name, select loyalty points.
Or call the ticket office.
Made the massive mistake of not purchasing my Luton ticket with my season ticket
Therefore having to wait until Saturday to purchase my ticket
Viler in peace
My Mrs is an Albion fan and season ticket holder but she's worked her points out wrong so can't get a ticket. I know you'll probably tell me to sod off being a Viler but if anyone knows of a spare reference or ticket keep her in mind. Score me some husband points ;D Cheers
Did you use Rohipnol? Why the hell did she marry you? ;DI can't answer the first question, there may be children reading :D
On your tagline, you fail to mention when, surprisingly - not !
200 plus left and I’m certain 2 blocks are still to be releasedIf you mean the two blocks to the right on the stadium plan as you look down on it then I'm pretty sure they are not allocated to away supporters I think they are GML 5&6
If you mean the two blocks to the right on the stadium plan as you look down on it then I'm pretty sure they are not allocated to away supporters I think they are GML 5&6
This is a joke, just read on Twitter that loads of fans who are season ticket holders without enough points to qualify for a ticket yet they have just phoned up (yesterday) and brought tickets no questions asked.
I earned my points fair and square, so what is the reason for having a point system if the club don’t enforce it?
Sold out according to the WBA Tickets site. No more available in any section.
Sold out according to the WBA Tickets site. No more available in any section.
GML5 section not on sale. Does anyone know when that will be released online?
Does anyone know what time the day “starts†on the online system. I had a ticket in my basket online around 1am this morning after being late in from work. I only qualified for tickets today 1520 points. But the system would not let me buy it. There were a smattering if tickets left then. Just tried again - sold out. Frustrating. Just wondered if the day starts at 9am or something rather than midnight.
Yeah, it's 9am mate.
It says on our website that we get GML 4 and 5 but I think they’ve got it wrong as why wouldnt they be available yet..My ticket was/is in GML4 collected yesterday so presumably they are selling tickets in the unreleased blocks but hadn't updated the website
Sold out yesterday.I believe it is well worth constantly checking for any returned tickets as a long shot option
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/september/blues-trip-sold-out/
Our first real derby for 3 seasons and our first against the noses since our 2-1 FA cup win in Jan 2015. The last time we faced them in the league, 7 years ago, we won both home and away. In fact, Blues haven't beaten us since 2006.
Looking forward to the game and hoping we turn them over. Monk is doing a good job at the circus so we have to take then seriously but it's hard to see them finishing higher than mid table.
Will our ability show through or will derby day nerves get to us?
Looking forward to this game...first game against the noses for a while so should be an entertaining gameAdmire your optimism mate but 9 or 10 is a bit much, I'd settle for 8-0 ;)
Id expect us to beat them 9/10 but in a local derby its hard to call...anything can happen!
Admire your optimism mate but 9 or 10 is a bit much, I'd settle for 8-0 ;)
Looking forward to this game...first game against the noses for a while so should be an entertaining game
Id expect us to beat them 9/10 but in a local derby its hard to call...anything can happen!
Where are people drinking who are going? Am I right in thinking the Briar Rose was where we went previously?
Briar Rose have stated they will not be accepting football fans in this season which I think is a disgrace.
Sun on the Hill right next door I'm sure will have a few in
Square Peg is probably best shout tbf thinking about it
If the Square Peg is the best shout in any competition then having a few cans at home before heading to the ground via New St would be favourable to me.
Currently planning on a couple in either Sutton or Erdington before heading into Brum' and taking a chance on Hennesseys (as I did without hitch for the FA Cup game).
There's a host of possibilities in Brum and Digbeth though and far too many to list in detail.
As an aside:
I can't see the Briar Rose having a hope in hell of preventing supporters without colours drinking there.
All they could do in reality is ask if you've got a ticket for the game and say bye bye.
Surely only a fkmunter with a diminishing supply of oxygen to the brain would openly admit to having one in any such circumstance knowing there's a local game on?
Or then again :-X .
Square peg ffs ...
Don't most of you spend Friday night in your spoons sniffed up as it is ..
I hope weatherspoons go into admin...
Square peg ffs ...
Don't most of you spend Friday night in your spoons sniffed up as it is ..
I hope weatherspoons go into admin...
I know a few that will be going into the Square Peg but it aye for me, small pub by Snow Hill for me.Old contemptibles is a good boozer by snow hill
Old contemptibles is a good boozer by snow hill
Or the Old Royal. ;)
anyone know of a spare going?
anyone know of a spare going?
Always worth asking the ticket office if there's been any returns mate. There's always spares knocking about on Twitter as well.Look out for KitmanPat on twitter who has a good range of contacts (taps side of nose sort of contacts, know whet I mean nudge, nudge, wink wink) ;)
Lots of positivity here, reminds me of the atmosphere before the Bolton game :'(Derby game , form book out the window.
Generally Birmingham are poor, but I watched them vs Swansea at home and they looked decent, so who knows?
Blues are expecting a gate of around 22,000 for the game, which is also being broadcast live on Sky Sports.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2018/09/11/west-brom-set-to-be-backed-by-3000-fans-in-derby-clash/
22k , ground holds 30k. Might aswell of given us more tickets
We could probably have sold at least 4000 tickets but maybe they couldn't give us anymore as it would have meant moving some of their own fans from what I would imagine is a partisan section of supporters( like moving the Smethwick fans for a league game). I know it happens for cup games but I'm sure cup games allow a higher away allocation than league games.
We could probably have sold at least 4000 tickets but maybe they couldn't give us anymore as it would have meant moving some of their own fans from what I would imagine is a partisan section of supporters( like moving the Smethwick fans for a league game). I know it happens for cup games but I'm sure cup games allow a higher away allocation than league games.
It's not that mate, I think quite often the section behind the goal next to the away fans (Villa game aside) is pretty much a family section. It's to do with segregation and access I believe, for the cup game a few years back our tickets were right down by the tunnel and we had to access via the other side of the stand. Presumably for a night league game they want all away fans coming and going from the same entrance/exit. Plus they're not exactly flush with cash and it'll keep their police bill down.
https://twitter.com/i/status/1040180203190972416
Hopefully Green and Yellow kit tomorrow folks :D :D :D :D :D :D
Proper football with a proper kit!
I am hoping for a clean sheet, either 1-0 or 2-0 will do me nicely.In short... it reminds some of us of the team that should’ve won the league.
As an overseas fan, I have to admit I don't really get the hype over the green and yellow kit - my thoughts are we are always blue and white.
That's the shirt I have.
Why does everyone go nutty at the green and yellow strip. Too close to Norwich City isn't it?
I have a feeling we will get beat tonight (and i am usually optimistic)I agree with your analysis. Blues have been better than their raw results suggest. A few on here are far too cocky for my liking.
A few of their games they have been very unlucky not to win and at some point that is going to click, with the recent news about point deduction, the whole club uniting with the threat of points deduction, they will create a siege mentality which is when Blues are at their best.
Talent wise we are better than them but i havent been convinced by us away from home so far, if we approach it anything like we did the Forest, first half vs Norwich and Boro games, ie - let them take control, i really do think we will get beat.
If we play like we did against Stoke with that approach i think we would win comfortably but i think we will change as its away from home.
I agree with your analysis. Blues have been better than their raw results suggest. A few on here are far too cocky for my liking.
Late change of plan here means I'm probably going to have to drive over there sadly :o
Any advice or thoughts on parking round there as I have read on SHA they have problems with the locals over parking
COYB
We've pretty much always had it good against the Blues but this is going to be a tough game. Truth be told, I'd take a point. Boing Boing.
Oh and any Baggies in the home end should behave themselves, or else they'll quickly find this derby is not so 'friendly' after all.
I am hoping for a clean sheet, either 1-0 or 2-0 will do me nicely.
As an overseas fan, I have to admit I don't really get the hype over the green and yellow kit - my thoughts are we are always blue and white.
That's the shirt I have.
Why does everyone go nutty at the green and yellow strip. Too close to Norwich City isn't it?
People are saying that blues have played well and been unlucky with their results,as I don't have any interest in them I'm wondering who have they played so far?
They will be terrified of us coming to their own ground with our supporters singing their heads off,we are too good for them,if we press them high straight away I think they will be very nervous and scared to make a mistake I think we will be too clever,too strong and have goals in us,we get one first and its over for them,should they get one first they will then feel our speed and power.
0-3
I'll be in Malta for this, it should be on telly in one of the bars, think it'll be a scrappy win for usIn Italy myself, forgot the 1 hour time difference and got a bit carried away on the vino rather early, been wondering why there was still wrestling on the bar telly. COYB.
Field and Harper representing England at U17 and U20 levels but Gareth Barry, who will be retired next season, keeps them out of the squad. Short-termism at its finest.
Starting XI: Jphnstone, Bartley, Livermore, Phillips, Brunt, Townsend, Barnes, Gayle, Rodriguez, Dawson, Hegazi
Subs: Myhill, Gibbs, Robson-Kanu, Burke, Barry, Edwards, Adarabioyo
Is that 4-4-2?Phillips as RBW as usual im guessing.
Is that 4-4-2?3-4-1-2 , Phillips Townsend playing has wing backs
Field and Harper representing England at U17 and U20 levels but Gareth Barry, who will be retired next season, keeps them out of the squad. Short-termism at its finest.3 games this week, hope to see more adventurous selection at home
Need some help please lads. Is anyone going to the game by car from Worcester and would be willing to give this poor old sod a lift back to Worcester City centre. There is a train at 23.00 from New street but with my walking problem I am worried I may miss the train.
3 games this week, hope to see more adventurous selection at home
Is that 4-4-2?
Steady but no progress
Young Barnes getting bullied tonight. Bartley has been dire again.
STOP those long balls !!!!
Surprised to see us concede a goal where we have been done in the air and then second to the knockdown. I mean it has rarely happened this season.
Defensively poor but the goalkeeper really, really scares me
Poor keeping again he must be a vampire because he hates cross, there was me saying that i hadnt seen anything from them. ::)
Jesus, Bartley is a liability.
Bartley is actually terrible, like I’d rather play Sam Field at CB. We need to wake up and start playing some football. Phillips looks a threat down right hand side, can’t say the same for Townsend
Bartley is absolutely infuriating- why is he always shirt grabbing?
Would it be fair to say that the good stuff we do is more down to the quality of the squad, rather than the tactical decisions of Darren Moore? I love him, I really do, but I just can't understand the logic of any of his tactical decisions or lineups.and how is that?
Said it before, but it feel like the 3-4-1-2 is just because:
A) it lets him shoehorn in his favourite players
B) it's attacking
We'd be killing these lot if we were set up properly. As it is, Blues should have scored 3.
Would it be fair to say that the good stuff we do is more down to the quality of the squad, rather than the tactical decisions of Darren Moore? I love him, I really do, but I just can't understand the logic of any of his tactical decisions or lineups.
Said it before, but it feel like the 3-4-1-2 is just because:
A) it lets him shoehorn in his favourite players
B) it's attacking
We'd be killing these lot if we were set up properly. As it is, Blues should have scored 3.
I'm not so sure. While we're clearly better player-wise than them, we're playing 3 CBs and the amount of times they've got free men in the box is unbelievable. Think that's down to the players rather than the system. If we were playing 2 CBs in a different system I'm not sure it would be any better?
When Birmingham run out of steam in the second half, we'll walk this 3-1 at least.
Created few chances on the front but shaky at the back.Agree - we are missing Gibbs tonight.
Jota looks too good for Townsend.
Bartley’s been shocking, Dawson’s given every ball away he’s played forward, the easy ball to the midfield is there every time and they try playing a hopeful one down the line. Take Bartley off go to a back 4 and get Barry on we’d completely control the midfield and get Rodriguez, Gayle & Barnes involved.For all the criticism of our defence we don't seem to be taking any pressure off them by not controlling the midfield. Blues have bossed it completely.
Bartley’s been shocking, Dawson’s given every ball away he’s played forward, the easy ball to the midfield is there every time and they try playing a hopeful one down the line. Take Bartley off go to a back 4 and get Barry on we’d completely control the midfield and get Rodriguez, Gayle & Barnes involved.
Take Bartley off alone would see an instant improvement, liability.
Bartley has yet to pass the ball to 1 single advanced player.....uselessit's been frustrating for our front two with the poor quality of service coming from behind them. Tactically not quiet right between the defence and midfield.
and how is that?Well, not like this. I think it's more a problem with the team selections than the formations in fairness, but I don't' think we have the personnel for 3 at the back. Combining how far we push the "wingbacks" forward, and how slow our central midfield is, it's just leaving us hugely exposed at the back.
Would it be fair to say that the good stuff we do is more down to the quality of the squad, rather than the tactical decisions of Darren Moore? I love him, I really do, but I just can't understand the logic of any of his tactical decisions or lineups.
Said it before, but it feel like the 3-4-1-2 is just because:
A) it lets him shoehorn in his favourite players
B) it's attacking
We'd be killing these lot if we were set up properly. As it is, Blues should have scored 3.
Beginning to despise Brunt, not really his fault I suppose being played there, but my god he is awful!fully agree Darren Moore has to take full responsability keep playing him, he is truly awful in cm..hes not a leader at all he hides away or throws his arms around the blokes past it
What a shocking signing bartley is
Stupid stats...twice as much possession but they have had 3 shots on target to our 1.
Long balls for possession don't count.
The amount of space they have is unbelievablewe just don't have the quality at the back to play this way.
The passes we are playing are sloppy
Hope no one still believes this team will get us promoted- certainly not with this manager - and that’s regardless of the final score in this game
One of the worst displays of passing a ball I’ve ever seen.where you the last 3 seasons?!
This team should get promoted, with the current manager I can’t see it happening though. CluelessAgree , it's not going to happen
I haven't seen if anybody else has replied but wouldn't any manager pick a formation that suits the players he wants to play??
It's attacking - good.
Needs a change in midfield - Barry on for Brunt for me.Burke and Edwards on please
All set up for us to nick this thenIf we do we will be just papering over the cracks
All set up for us to nick this then
People was loving it saying we will urine the league after the qpr, Norwich & stoke games.
Why does everyone expect us to win every game and play well?
4 points out of stoke at home and blues away is a good return.
L
People was loving it saying we will urine the league after the qpr, Norwich & stoke games.Well we havent got a point yet and even if we get three this is awful
Why does everyone expect us to win every game and play well?
4 points out of stoke at home and blues away is a good return.
L
People was loving it saying we will urine the league after the qpr, Norwich & stoke games.
Why does everyone expect us to win every game and play well?
4 points out of stoke at home and blues away is a good return.
L
Barry winner incomingBarry Manilow coming on would be an improvement on Brunt!
At last - that would have been my change 20 minutes ago!
They just have to put pressure on our back 3 and that creates them half chances.I think the only chance it'll work with any consistency is at home, if we play a proper midfield 2 and just go out to kill teams. It's all well and good shoehorning in all those dynamic attacking players, but with Livermore and Brunt in the middle and that back 3 we just won't have enough possession to utilise them.
Anybody could have been hooked they have all been bad saved by the fact Birmingham are truly woeful.
All we have done is change personnel not convinced it's going to yield much. System ain't really working tonight.
It’s going to be a bit difficult playing 4 at the back, we have no right back. And ch we only have Dawson and hegazi .... Bartley would be no where near.
the team don't want to play 4 at the back, Graeme Jones has advocated 5 man defences his entire career!
Thats on the scouts and big Dave for me for not going out and getting what was needed.
One if the worst games I’ve seen in a long long time. Blues scored and should have scored 3/4 which says it all really as they are shocking.Field.
We won’t go up playing this way. As much as I love Big Dave I really think he’s trying to make us play a style we really aren’t capable of.
Bartley needs to be replaced by Tosin, he’s gash. Brunt hasn’t got the legs to play CM but who have we got to replace him?!
Can someone explain to me how Chris Brunt is still at this football club.He is not going to do it mate, he is not brave enough. He is hoping the old guard will keep him in a job, and they will not
He’s both slow and unfit these days and is stealing a living. To captain the side is an awful call from management.
Just another atrocious Friday night performance. No one in the middle of the park to help us in possession and yet more disarray at the back.
It’s time to begin to look to the youth now to carry us forward.
Likewise, people are coming out of the woodwork to have a go now we're having an off day.Not just one mate! Delusional if you think we are going to finish top
Not bad. We looked timid at times but also tempting at times. I liked the spells of buccaneering from the flanks. Too bad we couldn't gather the 3 points we deserved.We deserved?????
Waiting in anticipation for BDs post match interview, surely hw won't say we were the dominant force?He will. Clueless.
DM has to order his players to keep the ball on the floor and not to hoof it upwards to heaven.
He is not going to do it mate, he is not brave enough. He is hoping the old guard will keep him in a job, and they will not
We deserved?????
Field.
He won't play though because Moore is too scared to drop the senior professionals. They play regardless.
Did Birmingham perform any better?
Everytime we tried that tonight it went to a Blue shirt though.How come the only time we did anything on the floor, we scored? ala Phillips.
I didn't see many long balls.
How come the only time we did anything on the floor, we scored? ala Phillips.
Don't agree with that, we tried a little on the floor and struggle to get it to the midfield.
Bartley, Dawson, Hegazi, Brunt and Livermore ALL gave so many passes away along the floor
Did Birmingham perform any better?100% executed their plan and should of won 2 or 3, they were far better. Or am I in cukoo land?
Moore happy with a point. Full of praise for Birmingham and aware of how poor we were on the ball. Spot on interview for me.
100% executed their plan and should of won 2 or 3, they were far better. Or am I in cukoo land?
Don't agree with that, we tried a little on the floor and struggle to get it to the midfield.
Bartley, Dawson, Hegazi, Brunt and Livermore ALL gave so many passes away along the floor
How come the only time we did anything on the floor, we scored? ala Phillips.
Droitwich, you're wrong. Watch the entire game back. Most of our problems stemmed from us trying to keep it on the ground and either just hitting it directly to a Birmingham player like a poor Sunday league team, or playing it into feet over too long a distance which gave Brum players chance to nip in to the tackle.
Their pen came from the defence giving the ball away 3 times in quick succession by trying to play out.
At one point Dawson lost the ball by playing it along the ground directly to a Brum player with not an Albion player within 12 yards. He won it back with a bit of fortune as he slid in from the wrong side and the Brum player got it stuck under his own feet. He then brought the ball out, under no pressure, and instead of passing it to his left about 12 yards tried to miss that Albion player out but gave Barnes a hospital ball instead resulting in a yellow card.
That was just one example. We did that all night.
Absolutely spot on fella
Those 5 are the ones that really caused the problems and gave Blues the ability to push on us
and they fact that you think they dominated but didnt get 3 points means they should be happy? We deserved the points since they didn't take advantage.I dont know if your winding me up but blues were better than us on the night, if I was a blues fan I would be very dissapointed not to get 3 points, as for our performance reminded me of a bunch of players thrown together for the first time, the only positive for us tonight is we didnt lose
Agreed with everything he said aswellyet he will pick the same starting 11 next match. good management change things when it's not working, then again he could change 8 of those players tonight we was so poor. how bad Dawson was tonight he should be benched but who replaces him in this system.
I felt he wasn’t that happy with our performance but happy with the point
I dont know if your winding me up but blues were better than us on the night, if I was a blues fan I would be very dissapointed not to get 3 points, as for our performance reminded me of a bunch of players thrown together for the first time, the only positive for us tonight is we didnt lose
They definitely missed a lot of great chances and we’re more organised but they were still a rubbish team that we should be beating. Looked washed up when we finally had a go at them late on.Far too little to late mate. In my opinion theres no sugar coating that performance I just witnessed
Far too little to late mate. In my opinion theres no sugar coating that performance I just witnessed
Perhaps, now is the time to change manager. he did well at the end of last season, but has been found wanting this season
Change the manager 7 games in...unreal. Our fan base are now on par with villa/wolves. We can never call them fickle or laugh at them ever again.
Change the manager 7 games in...unreal. Our fan base are now on par with villa/wolves. We can never call them fickle or laugh at them ever again.
I agree with you, we were rubbish. See my player ratings.Looking forward to midweek already the joys ayyy COYB,!!!
Not bad. We looked timid at times but also tempting at times. I liked the spells of buccaneering from the flanks. Too bad we couldn't gather the 3 points we deserved.haha you are having a laugh
Perhaps, now is the time to change manager. he did well at the end of last season, but has been found wanting this season
Dm Believes in God, but God doesn't play for us.What a weird post
DM has to order his players to keep the ball on the floor and not to hoof it upwards to heaven.
I felt sorry for Rodriguez. He didn't have a sniff or get any supply given to him. Only when Brunt went deeper and Blues dropped off a bit in the 2nd half did he start to get involved a bit more, then he was subbed off.
There's not much you can do as a striker if there's zero service for 60 mins of the game.
Johnson 7/10: could have done more for the goal, great pen savewhat a load of garbage Bartley was the best of an awful defence the keeper saved an easy penalty otherwise awful Townsend awful they murdered us down his flank how did you give Gayle more than Rodriguez? Both bad tonight but that's down to our awful midfield that give them no outlet! And Barnes was better than a five as Well.
Townsend 5/10: worked hard, tried to get forward, switched off for goal
Bartley 3/10: liability, stupid handball for penalty
Hegazi 3/10: donkey, loved to keep the ball to himself at the back
Dawson 3/10: very average defending and shocking passing
Brunt 4/10: team notably improved once he was subbed
Livermore 3/10: was he on the pitch?
Barnes 5/10: almost scored, hardly got the ball as Hegazi’s was busy keeping it
Phillips 7/10: best work rate and standard
Gayle 6/10: not his sharpest, no ball as defence was busy passing it between them
J-Rod 2/10: awful, waste of space
Darren Moore 2/10: still clueless, subs better but too late coming
Barry 6/10: an actual central midfield for 10 minutes
Kanu 4/10: usual scratchy performance
Dear oh dear what a moaning bunch of fans we have. It wasn’t great that’s for sure but we didn’t lose and any away point is useful in my opinion.I think fans are allowed to moan when we sit near mid-table after 7 games, yet possess one of the best teams in the league and struggle at Birmingham City; a team who may well get relegated this season.
What I must say though is that the insistence of playing the ball out from the back just does not suit this group of defenders.
On to the next game!
Moore happy with a point. Full of praise for Birmingham and aware of how poor we were on the ball. Spot on interview for me.
...great, but that was exactly the same performance as the Forest and Boro games and he has still not changed a thing. I am not interested in someone able to identify that we were rubbish, 100 people on this board could have told him that, I want someone who can rectify it and he is not doing that
Absolutely awful, we should have been out of it by half time. If Blues had strikers that could finish we would have been.Beating Norwich in a basketball game and then having QPR take the day off papered over the cracks. Beating Stoke then allowed Moore to justify sticking with his favoured XI. The rush of games now will force him into changes.
What have we been doing in training for the past two weeks ? Only Hegazi has been on international duty. Our passing is awful with Dawson and Brunt the two most guilty. Heard someone say after the game that the pass completion for Dawson tonight was 6%, not sure how true that is but wouldn't surprise me at all.
Penalty was soft and the save was decent although at a good height for Johnstone, if that had gone in I felt it would have been game over.
We might have only lost 2 but we have not been anything special with the exception of the QPR second half and parts of the Stoke game. Lots of work to do and Darren Moore has lots to learn and quickly.
I think we need to acknowledge just how much the bluenoses contributed to our general all round awfulness
They had a plan to swamp our pedestrian midfield giving the back three no out-ball and when we tried to play it through the bluenoses were, generally speaking, fleeter of foot and faster of thought and my view is what many here are calling misplaced passes were infact some pretty damned good interceptions.Somemany of them were very, very quick off the mark and across the ground to beat us to the ball
I'm not excusing our display just pointing out that the opposition contributed considerably to the garbage we were and our ongoing inability to change things in real time
A totally frustrating night to be honest, looking forward to see the Albion in full flight against a poor blue's side. With Darren persisting with Brunt and livermore in the middle after a somewhat better display against Stoke I gave him the benefit of the doubt but with the game underway both reverted to form. Keeper kept us in the game with vital penalty save because at 2-0 there was no way back into match but he still gives me the jitters. Back three were a disaster waiting to happen and to be honest that has to be the poorest game I've ever seen Dawson play as for Bartley what an inept defender he is constantly fouling his opponent. Hegazi keeps reminding me that we only paid £1.5 million for him. Townsend on his debut came into the game as it went on but should have done better on their goal. Philips was head and shoulders above any of our players and his hard work paid of with goal. Brunt did absolutely nothing in game except give ball away for goal and for penalty,Livermore wasn't much better. Felt sorry for the three up top because if you get no service what can you do. First substitution was typical from Moore with HRK having little impact and one chance he had was his usual urine poor effort. Barry nearly changed the result with sublime pass which culminated in Barnes hitting cross bar should start a head of Brunt next game. Coach should have changed it up at half time but bottled it and was very lucky to come away with point.
I felt sorry for Rodriguez. He didn't have a sniff or get any supply given to him. Only when Brunt went deeper and Blues dropped off a bit in the 2nd half did he start to get involved a bit more, then he was subbed off.
There's not much you can do as a striker if there's zero service for 60 mins of the game.
Dear oh dear what a moaning bunch of fans we have. It wasn’t great that’s for sure but we didn’t lose and any away point is useful in my opinion.
What I must say though is that the insistence of playing the ball out from the back just does not suit this group of defenders.
On to the next game!
In possession I found Hegazi to be absolutely infuriating. Quick pass out wide or to to a midfielder? No thanks, I think I'll take 3/4 touches, do a couple of pointless turns under no pressure and then slowly pass it either Dawson or Bartley who then being pressed passed it back to him. Then the whole process repeated itself. Hegazi had 49 touches in the first half alone and J-Rod had 9! That happened over and over again. Second half the three at the back then started passing it straight to the Blues midfield.
We literally spent about an hour of that match passing it between our defenders at walking pace with the rest of the team standing in front of them and watching. Giving Blues all the time in the World to get behind the ball and set-up their shape. On the very few rare occasions we actually made a successful forward pass we then turned back and went all the way back to the defenders in two or three passes. It was unbelievable and rubbish. How could Darren Moore not lay into them at half time and tell them to stop playing in their own third at the back so much?
A totally frustrating night to be honest, looking forward to see the Albion in full flight against a poor blue's side. With Darren persisting with Brunt and livermore in the middle after a somewhat better display against Stoke I gave him the benefit of the doubt but with the game underway both reverted to form. Keeper kept us in the game with vital penalty save because at 2-0 there was no way back into match but he still gives me the jitters. Back three were a disaster waiting to happen and to be honest that has to be the poorest game I've ever seen Dawson play as for Bartley what an inept defender he is constantly fouling his opponent. Hegazi keeps reminding me that we only paid £1.5 million for him. Townsend on his debut came into the game as it went on but should have done better on their goal. Philips was head and shoulders above any of our players and his hard work paid of with goal. Brunt did absolutely nothing in game except give ball away for goal and for penalty,Livermore wasn't much better. Felt sorry for the three up top because if you get no service what can you do. First substitution was typical from Moore with HRK having little impact and one chance he had was his usual urine poor effort. Barry nearly changed the result with sublime pass which culminated in Barnes hitting cross bar should start a head of Brunt next game. Coach should have changed it up at half time but bottled it and was very lucky to come away with point.
I've deliberately waited until now to post as I find posting straight after a game is not wise as posts tend to be far too emotive. Some of the stuff I've read on social media is absolutely ridiculous so lets get some perspective in the cold light of day.
The performance last night was poor. It was very similar to at Forest and Boro. There was no midfield and with more quality Blues would've stuffed us.
There is no problem with the system, it's the personnel we are using within it. Some people have called for a return to four at the back. We don't have a recognised right back for a start other than Mears and he won't improve us and Dawson at right back won't solve our problems.
Last night Dawson has the worst game I can remember him having. He has not started his season consistently. Last week he was good against Stoke, last night dreadful. Why is this? Well, with all the shenanigans his pre-season was disrupted and I'd guess that's why is immediate form is patchy. We all know his quality and he will play his way into form, he'll be fine. Hegazi was superb against Stoke and again good last night, one of the few who played to a level we required. A stray pass first half and one second half is the only thing I can pull him up on and the one first half was as much Phillips's fault as he he didn't move for the ball. Bartley, based not on last nights game individually but on the season so far on the whole isn't good enough. He seems to struggle at this level. The only time he's looked assured was in the Caribao Cup vs Luton, lower league opposition. He is a downgrade on Dawson, Hegazi and any central defender we've had at the club for years. If he's not replaced his constant grappling is going to cost us penalties all season, he's got away with it time after time already. In January I'd be looking to bring someone in during the window if possible. For now how can we change from within? Adarabioyo is the first name that springs to mind but he's young and right footed. Would he be able to cope on the left of the three? I've no doubt he has more natural talent than Bartley but is he the answer now? Other options are Sam Field or Gareth Barry both who have played there. Neither are ideal replacements. Do we stick with Bartley? I'm not sure we can.
Wing backs are fine. People are slating Townsend but people wanted him to replace Gibbs after the Norwich game. Overall Gibbs is our number one there and Phillips on the right no problem. He, Hegazi and Barnes were the three players that did themselves justice last night and overall Phillips is fine.
Now the midfield. The whole set up of the game is affected by the midfield from the off. It was no surprise to see that once Barry came on we looked a different team for the last ten minutes. We are losing 10 - 20 % of our effectiveness right from the off playing Brunt in there. Brunt needs dropping. Nothing against him but he is not a central midfielder. Is Barry the answer, yes and no. He is fine in there but he is 38 years old and I don't think he can last ninety minutes there. He certainly won't be able to do that consistently. Do we have the answer within the club? Yes we do and I will keep going on about it till I'm blue in the face. Sam Field has all the credentials to fill that role. Harper doesn't quite have the vision or range of passing just yet. Field does and Darren Moore clearly cannot see what is right in front of his nose. Most managers seem to have a block about something or other that others can clearly see. This is Darren Moore's block. He needs to see it quickly. The midfield will look totally different with Field alongside Livermore. Livermore I feel a bit sorry for he needs help in there and is not getting any.
The forwards (and Harvey Barnes). Barnes is quality so is Gayle but they need help and they need the foundation to play off. Jay Rodriguez has been anonymous for most of the season and is offering very little goal threat in open play. He worked his socks off against Stoke, can't criticise that but other than that he's been poor. (I won't comment on the Norwich game as I didn't see that. Do we replace Jay Rod? At the moment we have either Burke or Robson-Kanu. Are these ideal replacements, no not for me really but can they really do much worse than the JRod we've seen for most of this season? I'm not going to lie and make out I know everything because I don't and I really don't know what I'd do with Rodriguez, Kanu and Burke.
The two things that stand out clearly, very clearly are Bartley and Brunt should be squad players. Those two are affecting the team week in, week out. Yes we will win games with them in the team because we have quality elsewhere but we won't get the enough points with these two as regular starters every game.
Final word on the goalkeeper. I thought Johnstone should've done better with the goal yesterday. He makes an initial move to come for the cross but then stops. That step he took meant he couldn't get back across his line in time to stop Jota's shot. Once making that step he has to come for the ball. Either come or don't make that initial step. He's young in goalkeeping terms but at the moment his decision making is not great. Does he need dropping? No, on reflection probably not, he needs games to gain the experience he needs to improve and he's still decent enough, though if he did get injured or something I wouldn't cry at Myhill replacing him.
Taking to a Spurs mate about last night as he watched it. He said it just seemed like a typical Championship quality derby to him.
He did say that Hegazi was very poor. That he received the ball and makes passes with his body shape all wrong and looks like he could make an error any time he's under pressure.
To play devils advocate: Blues have only lost twice this season, both away from home 1-0's, one of them to Middlesbrough. Hadn't lost at home in their first three games before last night. They should have destroyed Swansea a few weeks back after dominating the match as well.Think that's fair comment and Blues were far more dominant against Swansea than they were against us. I don't know why anyone expects any games to be easy in this division.
Jota is one of the best creative midfielders in the division and has been for a couple of seasons now, he'll give more teams the run-around this season than most players this season.
I don't see a point as a bad result, but we were pretty awful though.
Birmingham definitely had the better of the game until the last 10 mins. Just counting attempts doesn't tell the whole story really. Like the moments of panic in our box. Or the time they were something like 4 on 2 and their player chose a shot from 25 yards rather than just slipping someone in. Against better sides we would concede very good chances there.
Evert time we attacked we looked likely to score but the defence was shambolic.
Was Dawson trying to get in the Guinness Book of Records for the most misplaced passes in a match?
Livermore was his usual anonymous self and Brunt offered nothing positive.
We have 11 points and have dropped 10.The situation would be even worse if opposing teams had not missed 3 penalties.
One positive was that DM subbed the captain as this is not an easy decision to make.He must now take Brunt out of the team and start blooding some of our young players.
But was this just because we have a game Tuesday ?
I've deliberately waited until now to post as I find posting straight after a game is not wise as posts tend to be far too emotive. Some of the stuff I've read on social media is absolutely ridiculous so lets get some perspective in the cold light of day.
The performance last night was poor. It was very similar to at Forest and Boro. There was no midfield and with more quality Blues would've stuffed us.
There is no problem with the system, it's the personnel we are using within it. Some people have called for a return to four at the back. We don't have a recognised right back for a start other than Mears and he won't improve us and Dawson at right back won't solve our problems.
Last night Dawson has the worst game I can remember him having. He has not started his season consistently. Last week he was good against Stoke, last night dreadful. Why is this? Well, with all the shenanigans his pre-season was disrupted and I'd guess that's why is immediate form is patchy. We all know his quality and he will play his way into form, he'll be fine. Hegazi was superb against Stoke and again good last night, one of the few who played to a level we required. A stray pass first half and one second half is the only thing I can pull him up on and the one first half was as much Phillips's fault as he he didn't move for the ball. Bartley, based not on last nights game individually but on the season so far on the whole isn't good enough. He seems to struggle at this level. The only time he's looked assured was in the Caribao Cup vs Luton, lower league opposition. He is a downgrade on Dawson, Hegazi and any central defender we've had at the club for years. If he's not replaced his constant grappling is going to cost us penalties all season, he's got away with it time after time already. In January I'd be looking to bring someone in during the window if possible. For now how can we change from within? Adarabioyo is the first name that springs to mind but he's young and right footed. Would he be able to cope on the left of the three? I've no doubt he has more natural talent than Bartley but is he the answer now? Other options are Sam Field or Gareth Barry both who have played there. Neither are ideal replacements. Do we stick with Bartley? I'm not sure we can.
Wing backs are fine. People are slating Townsend but people wanted him to replace Gibbs after the Norwich game. Overall Gibbs is our number one there and Phillips on the right no problem. He, Hegazi and Barnes were the three players that did themselves justice last night and overall Phillips is fine.
Now the midfield. The whole set up of the game is affected by the midfield from the off. It was no surprise to see that once Barry came on we looked a different team for the last ten minutes. We are losing 10 - 20 % of our effectiveness right from the off playing Brunt in there. Brunt needs dropping. Nothing against him but he is not a central midfielder. Is Barry the answer, yes and no. He is fine in there but he is 38 years old and I don't think he can last ninety minutes there. He certainly won't be able to do that consistently. Do we have the answer within the club? Yes we do and I will keep going on about it till I'm blue in the face. Sam Field has all the credentials to fill that role. Harper doesn't quite have the vision or range of passing just yet. Field does and Darren Moore clearly cannot see what is right in front of his nose. Most managers seem to have a block about something or other that others can clearly see. This is Darren Moore's block. He needs to see it quickly. The midfield will look totally different with Field alongside Livermore. Livermore I feel a bit sorry for he needs help in there and is not getting any.
The forwards (and Harvey Barnes). Barnes is quality so is Gayle but they need help and they need the foundation to play off. Jay Rodriguez has been anonymous for most of the season and is offering very little goal threat in open play. He worked his socks off against Stoke, can't criticise that but other than that he's been poor. (I won't comment on the Norwich game as I didn't see that. Do we replace Jay Rod? At the moment we have either Burke or Robson-Kanu. Are these ideal replacements, no not for me really but can they really do much worse than the JRod we've seen for most of this season? I'm not going to lie and make out I know everything because I don't and I really don't know what I'd do with Rodriguez, Kanu and Burke.
The two things that stand out clearly, very clearly are Bartley and Brunt should be squad players. Those two are affecting the team week in, week out. Yes we will win games with them in the team because we have quality elsewhere but we won't get the enough points with these two as regular starters every game.
Final word on the goalkeeper. I thought Johnstone should've done better with the goal yesterday. He makes an initial move to come for the cross but then stops. That step he took meant he couldn't get back across his line in time to stop Jota's shot. Once making that step he has to come for the ball. Either come or don't make that initial step. He's young in goalkeeping terms but at the moment his decision making is not great. Does he need dropping? No, on reflection probably not, he needs games to gain the experience he needs to improve and he's still decent enough, though if he did get injured or something I wouldn't cry at Myhill replacing him.
Because that is part of the game plan. Fulham played this way last year, and their defenders were no better than ours IMO. Teams would sometimes line players along the edge of the box at goal-kicks and the 'keeper would pass to the defender near the corner flag if it meant not kicking it long.
Last night the passing at the back was very poor but they will be sticking with this way of playing as it will become more 'natural' and successful as the season progresses.
But was this just because we have a game Tuesday ?
Change the manager 7 games in...unreal. Our fan base are now on par with villa/wolves. We can never call them fickle or laugh at them ever again.He was appointed on the basis of six games...so the assumption was he deserved the chance on the evaluation of his six matches in charge, so why do we have to wait the whole season just to give him time to fail.
I only saw highlights, but think we must persist with passing out from the back rather than going back to long punts forward. The problem is you've got to have players who are comfortable on the ball, and not old-fashioned defenders who win the ball and whack it upfield. I think Moore is trying to coach them into doing this, but you may have to put up your hand and say, sorry but these guys are too set in their ways to play any other way. At some clubs, the players are coached from a very young age to play out from the back, and Moore may be asking too much of them.I'd never knock Brunt's effort but you can't assume that Barry will put in any less, I don't think he's the type to swan about for a last pay day. Personally I think that Barry as a genuine CM is better at playing the right pass whether that's short or long.
On Brunt v Barry debate, funny how people change their minds. Last season, posters were all wanting Barry out, now he's flavour of the month. Both are good at timing accurate through passes, a very important quality in the team. Who has the better, I don't know. But neither can last 90 minutes playing Championship football. In a midfield role, you need high energy levels and crucuially be able to turn and get back quickly. Of the two I would prefer Brunt as he is a West Brom man through and through, and will try that little bit harder than someone who is only here because its a last payday.
I'm all for us trying to play a passing game, but in order to do that there needs to be some mobility in midfield. The main reason our three defenders were made to look so woeful was the lack of movement in front of them. Time and again they looked for an option to get the ball forward but Brunt and Livermore just weren't presenting themselves.
Monk's tactics to stifle us in midfield worked perfectly, and only towards the end, by which time the Blues midfielders had run themselves into the ground, were we able to play through them.
Until we get some pace and movement in midfield we're going to struggle. Our only reliable outball at the moment is Phillips.
Time to give Barry, Field or even Harper a chance. They certainly can't do any worse.
Turning out to be a good point so far with today's results. Next two games must winProbably must win if we think we should be getting ahead of the pack by Xmas. But it's all looking a bit congested with no real front runners, so I'd settle for 4/6 right now.
One every five years I find myself in full agreement with Jacko 😀
Aside from taking penalties this guy offers nothing as a 2nd striker. Either play him up front or play a midfielder.
The problem we had against Blues is they got it right tactically. They adopted a 3/4 block which is probably the best counter to a team that wants to play out from the back if you don't want to adopt a high press. I watched Man City struggle to break down a Palace side who adopted the tactic last season at Selhurst Park.
We aren't Man City even in relative terms in this league. Blues overloaded the wide areas where they had a winger and a full back often opposed by our wing back and only really pressed in the wide areas. They seldom broke a very rigid and tightly grouped central shape. i.e.
fwd Fwd
CM CM
CB CB
The full backs and wingers dropping deep out of possession and springing forward in possession however they were very rarely joined by the CM block.
The challenge for us was the 2 forwards blocked the passing channels centrally into the midfield which gave our Centre Backs few options for forward passes certainly through the middle. Blues held their central positions and always gave the player in possession the option of the wide ball which was then pressed by their wide players. From Gary Monk's perspective it must have been particularly galling to concede a goal from a wide position.
The fact they didn't drop into a deep block but engaged the ball higher up the pitch also stopped our CB's bringing the ball out because a turnover of possession would be in our half rather than in our opponents and therefore much more dangerous.
This was the basic reason why our passing was so off. There isn't any easy tactical remedy.
However to counter this there are a number of things that we could have done but generally didn't.
1. Work the ball across the back the point of this is a) gives the forward players a chance to make space. b) Test the patience of the opposition who will eventually lose discipline and chase a ball they shouldn't and that opens up the defence when one part of the block move out of alignment then it can quickly be by passed.
2. Movement ahead of the ball has to be more coordinated. Frequently either Brunt or Livermore dropped deep to pick up the ball from the Centre Backs however this doesn't move the block and if Barnes and or Rodriguez does not drop into the space there are even fewer passing options.
In this instance our CB's aren't particularly comfortable on the ball and they are in the deep grained habit of moving the ball on quickly which doesn't test the opposition's discipline. In respect of those further forward none of the front 3 really drop to look for the ball. I would much rather have Barnes attacking the opposition's back line than Morrison but on Friday night Morrison (if available) might have got on the ball more.
It was interesting that the last 10 minutes which might have our best spell was when Blues got nervous about getting the point and started to retreat towards their own area.
Moore has plenty of food for thought.
2. Movement ahead of the ball has to be more coordinated. Frequently either Brunt or Livermore dropped deep to pick up the ball from the Centre Backs however this doesn't move the block and if Barnes and or Rodriguez does not drop into the space there are even fewer passing options.
In this instance our CB's aren't particularly comfortable on the ball and they are in the deep grained habit of moving the ball on quickly which doesn't test the opposition's discipline. In respect of those further forward none of the front 3 really drop to look for the ball. I would much rather have Barnes attacking the opposition's back line than Morrison but on Friday night Morrison (if available) might have got on the ball more.
Agree with your post about Blues getting their tactics correct and agree with the remedies suggested. Regards the quotation above, Barnes and a striker going wide to create an overload for us in that area may work going forward. You've mentioned City so I'll reference them, both De Bruyne and or a striker or full back often drift wide to help find an overload in that inside right position. It does make you wonder whether going with a 2 behind the striker in a 3421 as opposed to 3412 may have merit going forward.
Agree with your post about Blues getting their tactics correct and agree with the remedies suggested. Regards the quotation above, Barnes and a striker going wide to create an overload for us in that area may work going forward. You've mentioned City so I'll reference them, both De Bruyne and or a striker or full back often drift wide to help find an overload in that inside right position. It does make you wonder whether going with a 2 behind the striker in a 3421 as opposed to 3412 may have merit going forward.
Oh for the days when we lined up 4-4-2 but the players had enough nous to sort "stuff" out on the pitch. I can clearly remember John Wile re-organising us when necessary, Superbob used to martial the forward unit pretty well as I remember.
3-4-1-2 / 3-4-2-1 the basic should be "I'm in trouble here,help me" or I can win this on my own go and help someone else. Simplistic I know but surely still has its place.