Author Topic: Dwight Gayle (at Newcastle)  (Read 234854 times)

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tuamigos

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #800 on: June 16, 2019, 05:04:56 PM »
Forget his age, wages, goals ratio, blah blah blah.
If we could do it at at he right cost and obviously if Slav wanted him I would love to see him back next season same as Holgate.
Worth noting that the stand out players in OUR team last season were not our players apart from Hegazi
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #801 on: June 16, 2019, 05:11:49 PM »
Forget his age, wages, goals ratio, blah blah blah.
If we could do it at at he right cost and obviously if Slav wanted him I would love to see him back next season same as Holgate.
Worth noting that the stand out players in OUR team last season were not our players apart from Hegazi


Phillips, Gibbs? Brunty of course.
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tuamigos

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #802 on: June 16, 2019, 05:15:31 PM »

Phillips, Gibbs? Brunty of course.

Barnes, Gayle, Holgate. then our players
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #803 on: June 16, 2019, 05:21:23 PM »
Sorry for having an opinion that you dont agree with. It's a forum mate.
Eh? I had no problem with your post or your opinion. If you meant the bit where I said it could be a pointless discussion, I meant from all our points of view ie if the club had already decided that we couldn't afford him, any opinion became academic.

tuamigos

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #804 on: June 16, 2019, 05:30:46 PM »
My old man always said 'You can't educate pork!'

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #805 on: June 16, 2019, 05:34:30 PM »

Phillips, Gibbs? Brunty of course.

Unfortunately none of them were stand out.

Only stand out players last season were Gayle and Barnes. The rest were much of a muchness and not much to shout about overall.
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timdon

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #806 on: June 16, 2019, 05:41:17 PM »
Unfortunately none of them were stand out.

Only stand out players last season were Gayle and Barnes. The rest were much of a muchness and not much to shout about overall.
Hegazi as well I think.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #807 on: June 16, 2019, 05:48:55 PM »
Eh? I had no problem with your post or your opinion. If you meant the bit where I said it could be a pointless discussion, I meant from all our points of view ie if the club had already decided that we couldn't afford him, any opinion became academic.

No problems mate! We all get a bit passionate at times because we care for the club.

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #808 on: June 16, 2019, 10:56:33 PM »
Anyone who doesn’t want to sign Gayle back should see their GP and shrink immediately. Best striker in this league bar none. The fantasy that we can buy an unknown from abroad and find a goal machine is just that. An Odemwingie or Pukki turn up once a decade. Any one with calibre at this level, like Maupay would be just as expensive or more expensive than Gayle. This whole debate is ridiculous, just goes to show how small time a section of our fan base is.
Anyone who doesn’t want to sign Gayle back should see their GP and shrink immediately. Best striker in this league bar none. The fantasy that we can buy an unknown from abroad and find a goal machine is just that. An Odemwingie or Pukki turn up once a decade. Any one with calibre at this level, like Maupay would be just as expensive or more expensive than Gayle. This whole debate is ridiculous, just goes to show how small time a section of our fan base is.

How decent of you to be the self proclaimed leader of sanity

There are for’s and against’s
He has pedigree and wore the stripes well
He is also getting on and is quite expensive

The debate is not ridiculous and if it were your money you may be a touch more careful with it?
Anyway, having debate does not a smalltime fan base make
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #809 on: June 16, 2019, 11:26:33 PM »
How decent of you to be the self proclaimed leader of sanity

There are for’s and against’s
He has pedigree and wore the stripes well
He is also getting on and is quite expensive

The debate is not ridiculous and if it were your money you may be a touch more careful with it?
Anyway, having debate does not a smalltime fan base make

The debate is riduculous. Gayle's goals are worth they weight in gold, literally. We should resign him if at all possible. No debating about it, he's the best centre forward we could realistically attract. He can also cut it in the Prem when the team is setup to suit his game.

TheJacko2000

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #810 on: June 16, 2019, 11:56:21 PM »
So Bilic should tear up his tried and tested method to re-sign Gayle, wasting most of his budget at the same time, or crowbar him in to his method at wide left, where he's entirely ineffective as displayed last season when Barnes left?


Would be interested to hear the answer to these pertinent questions beyond, worth his weight in gold, guarantees you 20 goals ad nauseum.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #811 on: June 17, 2019, 12:05:13 AM »
Spending a very large part of the likely player budget on a player that does not fit into Bilic's likely tactical template is not the smartest move. Add in the fact that at 28 he hasn't many peak years left and certainly will be past his prime at the end of a 3 year contract

We are struggling to sell a 29 year old Rondon for the release clause with one year left on his contract. Why is everyone so keen to saddle us with another aging striker with little or no sell on value?

It is no use pointing at the money the Robson-Kanu or Livermore earn yes fine but those contracts are the reason why we can't afford to buy Gayle. In any event with the flexdown those contracts are managable in the short term whereas Gayle has 2 more years on his Premier League contract at Newcastle at £50k a week and that is the killer.

Sorry guys you may live in a fantasy world where money is "not our concern" but if you want to understand what is likely to happen or what the possibilities are then some sort of nodding aquinatance with the economic realities might be helpful.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #812 on: June 17, 2019, 12:08:16 AM »
Normally, Gayle's wages would be end of story for us, but this time we do have leverage because of  Rondon's situation, and Newcastle's wish to buy him.  This is the time for Jenkins and Dowling to show a bit of creativity, and make Gayle part of the negotiation.
Gayle is a player who gave every indication of enjoying his time with us.
People who say we can easily find a replacement, will I think will end up with egg on their face, as there will be stiff competition for any other proven goalscorers.
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #813 on: June 17, 2019, 12:30:21 AM »
Normally, Gayle's wages would be end of story for us, but this time we do have leverage because of  Rondon's situation, and Newcastle's wish to buy him.  This is the time for Jenkins and Dowling to show a bit of creativity, and make Gayle part of the negotiation.
Gayle is a player who gave every indication of enjoying his time with us.
People who say we can easily find a replacement, will I think will end up with egg on their face, as there will be stiff competition for any other proven goalscorers.

The Rondon situation gives us zero leverage with Newcastle. It would seem that the Newcastle hierarchy are trying to haggle the fee down on Rondon while demanding £20m for Gayle. It is only when the wheels drop off that particular bandwagon that any deals will get done. Factor in the takeover which may happen as early as July and all bets are off with regard to Rondon.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #814 on: June 17, 2019, 12:42:14 AM »
The Rondon situation gives us zero leverage with Newcastle. It would seem that the Newcastle hierarchy are trying to haggle the fee down on Rondon while demanding £20m for Gayle. It is only when the wheels drop off that particular bandwagon that any deals will get done. Factor in the takeover which may happen as early as July and all bets are off with regard to Rondon.
Depends on how much they want Rondon. If they want to play hardball over Gayle, then we should not make life too easy for them. Ideally, we need a you scratch my back, and we'll scratch yours understanding.   
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TheJacko2000

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #815 on: June 17, 2019, 12:50:43 AM »
Normally, Gayle's wages would be end of story for us, but this time we do have leverage because of  Rondon's situation, and Newcastle's wish to buy him.  This is the time for Jenkins and Dowling to show a bit of creativity, and make Gayle part of the negotiation.
Gayle is a player who gave every indication of enjoying his time with us.
People who say we can easily find a replacement, will I think will end up with egg on their face, as there will be stiff competition for any other proven goalscorers.


Where will Bilic play Dwight Gayle should we acquire him?
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alex1

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #816 on: June 17, 2019, 01:19:50 AM »

Where will Bilic play Dwight Gayle should we acquire him?
I think I know what you're suggesting, that Billic plays 4-2-3-1 and Gayle isn't a target man.
This is where Billic has to earn his crust, if he's the manager he's supposed to be. When you have a player with Gayle's ability, you have to adapt and find a way of accommodating him. He isn't a classic target man playing on his own up top. He's best when making runs through from deep positions and of course snapping up chances and half chances from around the box. It's Billic's job to tweak the abilities of all the players into the most effective unit, and if that means abandoning 4-2-3-1 , that's what he has to do.
Einstein: A definition of insanity- someone who takes the same action time after time, even though previously it's always ended in failure

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #817 on: June 17, 2019, 01:49:51 AM »
I think I know what you're suggesting, that Billic plays 4-2-3-1 and Gayle isn't a target man.
This is where Billic has to earn his crust, if he's the manager he's supposed to be. When you have a player with Gayle's ability, you have to adapt and find a way of accommodating him. He isn't a classic target man playing on his own up top. He's best when making runs through from deep positions and of course snapping up chances and half chances from around the box. It's Billic's job to tweak the abilities of all the players into the most effective unit, and if that means abandoning 4-2-3-1 , that's what he has to do.


Couldn't disagree more. You don't sign a player that would mean you had to tear up the blueprint you'd used successfully throughout your career. Re-signing Gayle is a total non starter imo and not just because of cost.


He provided us with some great goals and memories but it's time to move on.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #818 on: June 17, 2019, 02:05:49 AM »

Couldn't disagree more. You don't sign a player that would mean you had to tear up the blueprint you'd used successfully throughout your career. Re-signing Gayle is a total non starter imo and not just because of cost.


He provided us with some great goals and memories but it's time to move on.
So signing an instinctive goalscorer means tearing up some tactical "blueprint"? Not comparing Gayle to Messi, but would you refuse Messi on the same basis? 

When you say move on, does that mean moving onto finding a striker who scores 12 instead of 24 a season?
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #819 on: June 17, 2019, 03:29:40 AM »
So signing an instinctive goalscorer means tearing up some tactical "blueprint"? Not comparing Gayle to Messi, but would you refuse Messi on the same basis? 

When you say move on, does that mean moving onto finding a striker who scores 12 instead of 24 a season?


By asking me the question you are comparing Gayle to Messi, in importance anyway, and no Gayle isn't as important a player to us as Messi would be to anyone.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #820 on: June 17, 2019, 04:22:37 AM »

Couldn't disagree more. You don't sign a player that would mean you had to tear up the blueprint you'd used successfully throughout your career. Re-signing Gayle is a total non starter imo and not just because of cost.


He provided us with some great goals and memories but it's time to move on.

Going with your belief of moving on from Gayle, I do have some questions as to the future lineup.
We are likely to lose Rondon and JRod in the coming weeks leaving us with HRK.
Where do you think our goals will come from this season?
How much are you willing to spend to find a proven goal scorer?
If recent history is anything to go by , the budget for players will be small and we have to rebuild an aging team.
Wouldnt a straight swap of Rondon for Gayle make sense under these circumstances?

I believe you pay for proven results(Gayle's scoring history) and cut back on underperforming, aging players.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2019, 04:25:08 AM by Nice1Cyrille »

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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #821 on: June 17, 2019, 06:33:48 AM »
The argument that Bilic should change to accomodate Gayle might be valid if he was our player but he isn't so we have to gut our budget to get a player that does not fit the Head Coaches tactical blueprint.

In terms of the negotiating position between ourselves and Newcastle. Ultimately if someone meets the release clause we have no choice but to sell Rondon and we need to sell otherwise he is a free agent at the end of next season and will leave for no fee. The Newcastle hierarchy are not keen on the deal and are trying to chip away at the price. On the other hand they have Gayle on a 2 year contract while they are quite happy to sell the very worse case scenario if they don't get their asking price they loan him out at the end of the window which will offset some of the costs of having the player.

The swap deal is not going to happen. Time to move on.


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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #822 on: June 17, 2019, 07:37:08 AM »
Just read the last few pages of posts with interest. It is a fact that the majority of us would love to see Dwight at our club next year, and as someone said good luck with finding someone who can score 20 goals a season if we don't buy him. We also know that he is on a premiership wage, circa £55k per week, so with the transfer fee we probably cannot afford him [but we do have Rondon to bargain with]. Many say 'just sign him' as if it is that easy but the problem for me is how this will sit with the rest of the team. Consider Norwich, or Sheffield United, they did it this year working as a team, there were no big wage superstars within the squads and teamwork played a considerable part of achieving promotion.

Given that the rest of our squad will be on considerably less than half of what Dwight will be earning, do you not think that this will have a detrimental effect on our team at all? Personally I think that these devisive issues have affected our team over the past couple of seasons so I would like to move away from that.

Just asking...don't get me wrong, I would love to see Dwight back!.
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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #823 on: June 17, 2019, 08:41:16 AM »
It seems everyone is an accountant. Talking about wages, costs etc etc.

At the end of the day the only thing that matters to us season ticket holders is winning matches.  To win matches you need to score goals and gayle would deliver that , guaranteed.

As far as the argument about " He would be earning more than other members of the team", its a fact that the goalscorer in any team always earns the most money.  Who earns the most at Tottenham ?  Harry Kane,

If the players are on the same bonus next year for promotion, do you really think the rest of the team matter how much gayle earns if he scores the goals to get the team their bonus.

If we are relying on HRK and a new face to score the goals, then forget any thoughts about promotion because it won't happen.

Forget thinking like an accountant, its all about the goals and at the end of the day goals win matches !!!




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Re: Dwight Gayle (on loan swap from Newcastle)
« Reply #824 on: June 17, 2019, 08:45:39 AM »
I wish people would stop torturing themselves with this. Gayle isn't coming back. Even if we could afford him for this season, we can't commit to a contract that big just in case we don't get promotion. We can't afford his wages without the parachute payments (at least). Plus he'll have better financial offers.

It's not happening. The club have been clear in that. But I'll guarantee when he signs for Sheffield United, Fulham, or somebody else, there will be another meltdown.