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Off Topic => General Football & Sports => Topic started by: Floydy on January 16, 2017, 12:40:51 PM

Title: Jake Livermore
Post by: Floydy on January 16, 2017, 12:40:51 PM
Looks like it's time for its own thread....


Albion have turned their attention to Jake Livermore after missing out on Morgan Schneiderlin and have approached Hull City with an offer.

Head coach Tony Pulis, who missed out on Schneiderlin last week when he joined Everton instead, wants to bring a central midfielder into his team this window.

The size of Albion's opening bid is unknown at this stage, but it's believed to be lower than the £18million they offered Manchester United for primary target Schneiderlin.

Having let Craig Gardner join Birmingham City on loan last week, Albion's central midfield options are light at the moment, and Pulis brought 18-year-old Sam Field off the bench at White Hart Lane on Saturday.

"Obviously we need to bring players in," he said. "We have to improve, everybody knows that. But whether we get what we want we have to wait and see."

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/01/16/west-brom-approach-hull-city-with-offer-for-jake-livermore/#Mx6IwlqAxcse7cIJ.99
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: stokelad84 on January 16, 2017, 12:52:01 PM
Shame his name is not Jake Livermorinho.

The moaners will be on soon enough to dissect his career  :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on January 16, 2017, 12:56:13 PM
It may not be a marquee signing but Livermore would improve our midfield considerably IMO. Question is who drops out? I could see him playing alongside both Fletcher and Yacob.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 16, 2017, 12:57:33 PM
Shame his name is not Jake Livermorinho.

The moaners will be on soon enough to dissect his career  :)
you just wait until you've got Berahino. :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 16, 2017, 12:58:50 PM
I would rather have had Cleverly :). 5 million tops
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Foster#1 on January 16, 2017, 01:00:35 PM
Livermore better than cleverly imo

Would be a very good signing
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 16, 2017, 01:40:10 PM
Livermore better than cleverly imo

Would be a very good signing

I'm better than Cleverley.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: cornishbaggie on January 16, 2017, 01:43:58 PM
Yet another unrealistic target  >:( no way Hull are going to sell any of their players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 16, 2017, 01:44:52 PM
I'm better than Cleverley.
never seen you play, but I wouldn't dispute your claim. ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ian66 on January 16, 2017, 01:45:13 PM
I'm better than Cleverley.
Get your boots out  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mister AT on January 16, 2017, 01:49:23 PM
I'll reserve judgement.

More than enough fans slammed the money we spent on Phillips, and were disappointed with the signing of Nyom, yet both have been outstanding.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: botters on January 16, 2017, 02:01:19 PM
Livermore is an improvement on what we have but that isn't saying a lot. At 15 million though he is way over priced. Would rather have Snodgrass for 10 million. The problem is in the January window British players in particular are by far overpriced. Best to look for a bargain from the continent but again that has its risks.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 16, 2017, 02:06:30 PM
So Livermore got his own thread very good player but does anyone really know if we have put a bid in for him or is it this wonderful media talk again
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 16, 2017, 02:07:28 PM
Livermore is an improvement on what we have but that isn't saying a lot. At 15 million though he is way over priced. Would rather have Snodgrass for 10 million. The problem is in the January window British players in particular are by far overpriced. Best to look for a bargain from the continent but again that has its risks.


If Livermore went for 15mil then snodgrass is worth double that
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sayer3 on January 16, 2017, 02:08:43 PM
So Livermore got his own thread very good player but does anyone really know if we have put a bid in for him or is it this wonderful media talk again

John Percy says we have bid 10 million for him he's normally very reliable
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: botters on January 16, 2017, 02:23:08 PM
John Percy says we have bid 10 million for him he's normally very reliable

Probably at 10 million the right price for Livermore but i am sure that Hull are not desperate to sell so will be looking at around £15 million to sell him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 16, 2017, 02:24:41 PM
agreed Percy normally a good source thank you
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 16, 2017, 02:31:13 PM
seen very little of him, is he defensive or attacking  player? 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Foster#1 on January 16, 2017, 02:33:48 PM
Can play both prop more comfortable holding mid
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 16, 2017, 02:40:20 PM
Can play both prop more comfortable holding mid
thanks, will do a bit of searching now. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: koren on January 16, 2017, 02:44:36 PM
£10m for Livermore :o
Is he really worth ??
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Foster#1 on January 16, 2017, 03:05:17 PM
httphttp://www.not606.com/threads/january-incoming.339985/page-105

Last few pages about the rumour, they are livid saying our offer is a pisstake. Seem to rate him very highly . Saying 15m in today's market

Can also play center back by the looks of it. Tone would love that's
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mikkyk on January 16, 2017, 03:14:18 PM
Same question applies as with any CM coming in, does he replace Fletcher?

More importantly, does he replace Fletcher in Pulis' eyes?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: VANDERLEI on January 16, 2017, 03:31:40 PM
Same question applies as with any CM coming in, does he replace Fletcher?

More importantly, does he replace Fletcher in Pulis' eyes?

Has to be Fletcher as Yacob is irreplaceable in my eyes. Him, Evans and Foster are the must starters for me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 16, 2017, 03:54:09 PM
 Confirmation of bid?

    http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38642419    (http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/38642419)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: A5HB on January 16, 2017, 03:56:23 PM
Philip Buckingham who is the local reporter for the Hull Daily Mail has said Hull won't comment on a bid but he thinks they have a real decision to make. Silva has already made noises about not having a great budget for this window so they might well be glad of the money so that they can invest it elsewhere.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: superbobgod on January 16, 2017, 04:03:06 PM
I think the bid is genuine - John Percy gets leaked info (i suspect fed by the club or TP) and is always correct.
I think its a runner as its the one area Hull have a couple of options and he is short of money for other area's.
If signed he must replace Fletch who seemingly unnoticed bottles every tackle as well as his other limitations!
Initially i was underwhelmed with JL and especially at 10-15m!! However i am coming around to it! Right age. Versatile. Box to box. fits in with what we want and need. In and around the England squad in the past.
Regards the fee - was Hull record signing at £8m in 2014. £8m in 2014 is £15 in the current market the way the game has gone additionally mad! So maybe if we get him for £10-12m he is not that over valued.

P.S - Would still rather have Camacho for £15m and cant understand what Pulis has seen that obviously turned him off last minute in the summer to the degree we havent gone back even after Schnederlin.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on January 16, 2017, 04:12:34 PM
Could be a shrewd signing this , I like him.
Hopefully a long term Fletcher replacement.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: botters on January 16, 2017, 04:15:39 PM
I think the bid is genuine - John Percy gets leaked info (i suspect fed by the club or TP) and is always correct.
I think its a runner as its the one area Hull have a couple of options and he is short of money for other area's.
If signed he must replace Fletch who seemingly unnoticed bottles every tackle as well as his other limitations!
Initially i was underwhelmed with JL and especially at 10-15m!! However i am coming around to it! Right age. Versatile. Box to box. fits in with what we want and need. In and around the England squad in the past.
Regards the fee - was Hull record signing at £8m in 2014. £8m in 2014 is £15 in the current market the way the game has gone additionally mad! So maybe if we get him for £10-12m he is not that over valued.

P.S - Would still rather have Camacho for £15m and cant understand what Pulis has seen that obviously turned him off last minute in the summer to the degree we havent gone back even after Schnederlin.

Yes would rather have Camacho for 15 million wouldn't pay more than 12 million for Livermore but we are desperate of course.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 16, 2017, 04:43:06 PM
Could be a good shout at 27 and an England International can play as an attacking or defencive  midfielder Has also been playing at centre half for Hull we will see.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on January 16, 2017, 04:43:34 PM
Yes would rather have Camacho for 15 million wouldn't pay more than 12 million for Livermore but we are desperate of course.

I've never seen him play to be honest, but I imagine Pulis would favour Livermore based on him being British and playing in the Premier League. Out of our entire signings under Pulis - one has came from abroad, Rondon.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 16, 2017, 04:46:29 PM
Hull fans suggesting he's not technically good. More of an athlete.

While I'm desperate for us to get legs through the middle of the pitch I really hope there is some quality to his play.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie38 on January 16, 2017, 04:48:54 PM
Hull fans suggesting he's not technically good. More of an athlete.

While I'm desperate for us to get legs through the middle of the pitch I really hope there is some quality to his play.

Ive seen Hull fans say the bid is a joke and they rate him highly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiebof on January 16, 2017, 04:52:43 PM
Initially not enthralled at the idea at all but the more that I have thought about it, the more I have warmed to it. He is athletic, that is something that has struck me when we have played against him down the years and that attribute is clearly something that we lack - all over the pitch really but through the middle in particular.

I know stats aren't everything as styles of play and roles performed can make significant differences but on this season's stats, he will need to up his tackles and interceptions in our midfield. I'd imagine that we come be a good dressing room character as no doubt Pulis will have spoken to his mate Brucey about his personality, which can be considered a plus, along with the fact that he isn't really a risk. Of course, we won't get value compared to some deals on the continent but we know Pulis' preference for British players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 16, 2017, 05:12:23 PM
Ive seen Hull fans say the bid is a joke and they rate him highly.

Saw the same I'm not suggesting they don't like him. Just the type of player he is they state several times he is legs rather than ability... Yes they think closer to 15 million is right in today's market.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Barrington on January 16, 2017, 05:18:41 PM
This is much more realistic. Schneiderlin was a pipe dream and I didn't expect that to happen at all. I'm not going to pretend that I've followed this lads career in any depth, but whenever I've seen him he's usually looked pretty decent. I reckon he'd be a decent signing to be honest at anything up to about 12-13 million tops. He's also British which fits in with what Pulis likes and he has the Premier League experience already. I think we could do a lot worse in all honesty.

I reckon to have lodged a bid we must have an inkling that this deal is very much possible and I'd be surprised if it didn't go through now in all honesty. Not bad at all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: botters on January 16, 2017, 05:39:55 PM
Thinking about it Livermore fits the criteria that Pulis wants and the team wants.
1 : He is a realistic target and if available would be likely to join us.

2 : Fits the bill in terms of British player with Premier league experience

3 : Relatively Young 27 and should be in his prime to inject some mobility and energy in central midfield

4 : Versatile can play as a defensive midfielder and an attacking midfielder and also as a central defender

Looking at it a much more realistic target than Schneiderlin and with Livermore's versatility potentially a better buy.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: cads_ap_albion on January 16, 2017, 05:46:16 PM
I am neutral on this but would rather a comfortable on the ball box to box player.
One of our biggest issues is retaining the ball and i am concerned reading above that he is not technically very good...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 16, 2017, 05:47:50 PM
for me and eddy hes no better than gardner, he doesnt even start for Hull
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 16, 2017, 05:53:48 PM
for me and eddy hes no better than gardner

Think that does him a disservice he's a lot better than Gardner imo. Whether he's £14 million better is another story. Think the £8 million Hull paid was a lot at the time and I'd be more comfortable if that was his current price point.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba_1996 on January 16, 2017, 05:54:58 PM
He's a good age so fits the bill in terms of lowering our squad average age and he gives us much needed legs in the middle. Probably an improvement on Fletcher and is more of a longer term option.

All depends on whether he is being signed as a Fletcher replacement or a Yacob replacement, the former and I'm relatively happy but the latter and its a waste of £10m+ as it doesn't really solve the problem.

Not the impressive signing TP has been hinting at but a much better use of funds than signing Schlupp would have been.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: botters on January 16, 2017, 05:59:12 PM
I am neutral on this but would rather a comfortable on the ball box to box player.
One of our biggest issues is retaining the ball and i am concerned reading above that he is not technically very good...

Perhaps that type of player will be in the budget for the summer transfer window.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: VVVAlbion on January 16, 2017, 06:01:27 PM
Sounds like a Pulis player. An athletic midfielder who can play in defense. Nothing exciting but will no doubt put in a shift. What does seem non Pulis like is the ban for cocaine.  :o
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba_1996 on January 16, 2017, 06:04:39 PM
Sounds like a Pulis player. An athletic midfielder who can play in defense. Nothing exciting but will no doubt put in a shift. What does seem non Pulis like is the ban for cocaine.  :o

He could be a convicted dealer and Pulis would have him over someone from a foreign league  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Foster#1 on January 16, 2017, 06:06:11 PM
Don't forget we received 8m for James Chester

10m is nothing now. Palace spent 30m on benteke ffs !!!!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kirk on January 16, 2017, 06:34:34 PM
What!! Is this a joke? He is no better than what we have. Why buy a bang average premier league player, we might as well play field and leko. Do you really think he will replace Fletcher? Already 'he has played for England well so did Mike Phelan. No better than Gerdner
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on January 16, 2017, 06:36:29 PM
for me and eddy hes no better than gardner, he doesnt even start for Hull
He does usually start for Hull. He's had an injury which is why he didn't play in the semi against Man U....he would have been centre back but they ended up having to play Huddlestone and Myler there.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on January 16, 2017, 07:03:19 PM
In a British to British context £10m is probably okay it is totally outrageous if we look outside the Premier League bubble but what the heck every piece of stupidity can be used justify the next

If I'm being picky Livermore at 27 doesn't have many more "peak" years in him and whatever we pay is probably going to be last big fee he moves for. In terms of what we might be getting not the absolute top draw we might have been hoping for but he will improve us.

In terms of passing he has a greater pass volume and completion rate than Fletcher.

I am puzzled as to why Hull would let him go but apparently they need to raise funds to strengthen other areas
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on January 16, 2017, 07:37:00 PM
 bought up in an envirnoment that encourages passing the ball , a better athlete than either Fletcher or Yacob whats not to like
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 16, 2017, 09:46:19 PM
bought up in an envirnoment that encourages passing the ball , a better athlete than either Fletcher or Yacob whats not to like

I don't know an awful lot about him, but a quick search reveals that he spent a fair bit of time flitting through loans at clubs in the lower leagues with MK Dons (5), Derby (16), Peterborough (9), Ipswich (12) and Leeds (5) = 47.

He's 27 with a total of 252 appearances to his name and the majority of those have been at Hull City (approx 144 app's of which 37 were in the Championship/play offs).

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jake-livermore/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/61832 (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jake-livermore/leistungsdatendetails/spieler/61832)

On one hand he has experienced life at the rough end and got his knocks in early, on another it seems an awful lot to pay for a defensive midfielder with allegedly limited technical ability.

naughty word it though, I just don't know enough about him to actually judge him one way or the other.

If he arrives I'd wish him well and get behind him.

If he doesn't then I don't think I'll lose any sleep over it  :-X .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: overseas baggie on January 16, 2017, 09:54:22 PM
In a British to British context £10m is probably okay it is totally outrageous if we look outside the Premier League bubble but what the heck every piece of stupidity can be used justify the next

If I'm being picky Livermore at 27 doesn't have many more "peak" years in him and whatever we pay is probably going to be last big fee he moves for. In terms of what we might be getting not the absolute top draw we might have been hoping for but he will improve us.

In terms of passing he has a greater pass volume and completion rate than Fletcher.

I am puzzled as to why Hull would let him go but apparently they need to raise funds to strengthen other areas

I think they've got considerable debt issues (not quite on the scale of Sunderland's £210m) and Allam isn't prepared to convert more debt into equity.

Seems like they have to sell to strengthen especially in defence. Questions is which ones to they sell? Hernandez might score enough to keep them up. Snodgrass or Livermore seems the likeliest, possibly even both.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Raymond John on January 16, 2017, 10:59:22 PM
It is alleged we aspire to being an established top ten club.   Accepting the first six positions are well beyond our capabilities/resources, to achieve or at least have some realistic expectation of achieving our aspired level, we will have to become an established member of a group likely comprised in most if not all seasons, of Everton, Southampton, Stoke, Leicester and possibly West Ham.

Whenever we are reportedly, seriously interested in signing a first team player - rather than a squad player - I ask myself would these other clubs likely be interested in signing the player for their first team.   

Regarding Sneiderlin the answer was an unequivocal yes and although I doubted the likelihood of us ultimately getting him I did think that at least it showed the powers to be realised the quality of player we needed to get us to the aspired level.

But having failed to get Sneiderlin with a £18m+ bid, who do we come up with as the alternative; someone at least close to if not equal to the quality of Sneiderlin?    Unfortunately not but Livermore at an inflated £10m which is likely to be even more in this transfer window if we are to get him.  In my opinion Livermore is no more than another journeyman midfielder who arguably might be a little better than what we already have but is no where near the quality we need if we are to get to that higher level.

As others have said, this smacks very much of a Pulis driven signing, signifying that he is still very much in control of our transfer policy with all the risk-adverse limitations, that entails.

In today's market £10m may not be viewed as a great deal but £10m spent on Livermore is £10m less available to help fund the purchase of the quality of player who really would make a difference.   

There is not much risk of us being relegated this season - for which Pulis's approach, whether one likes it or not, is a significant factor - so I do not think there is an urgent need to spend much in this window unless of course the quality of player we need does become available at a realistic price.  As regards Livermore, if such a player is now deemed necessary we surely can find a loan signing at least his equal who would get us through to the summer when much better options are almost certainly to become available.

 




Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on January 16, 2017, 11:14:39 PM
What!! Is this a joke? He is no better than what we have. Why buy a bang average premier league player, we might as well play field and leko. Do you really think he will replace Fletcher? Already 'he has played for England well so did Mike Phelan. No better than Gerdner
100% agree exactly what i just said to my mates in the,pub! Not for me thanks.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 17, 2017, 12:26:09 AM
Of the three players we've been strongly linked with l honestly don't see the pattern.
Schneiderlin, Livermore, Schlupp.
we missed out on Schneiderlin so is Livermore the alternative?
Does it suggest that Pulis still wants a left sided player.ie someone like Schlupp?
Three very different players in Quality and position.
I think there's a few more pieces to this jigsaw yet.
 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on January 17, 2017, 05:34:04 AM
What!! Is this a joke? He is no better than what we have. Why buy a bang average premier league player, we might as well play field and leko. Do you really think he will replace Fletcher? Already 'he has played for England well so did Mike Phelan. No better than Gerdner
Totally different to what we have , Livermore can pick a pass and more importantly drive on with the ball. Yacob is a stopper sadly with one pace , Field a passer but a bit young yet and Fletcher well once was an all rounder but fading now.
I for one believe he would add something positive to our side , I do share your view on Fletcher being dropped though..........
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on January 17, 2017, 06:24:40 AM
Of the three players we've been strongly linked with l honestly don't see the pattern.
Schneiderlin, Livermore, Schlupp.
we missed out on Schneiderlin so is Livermore the alternative?
Does it suggest that Pulis still wants a left sided player.ie someone like Schlupp?
Three very different players in Quality and position.
I think there's a few more pieces to this jigsaw yet.

I think the clue here is the phrase "linked with" I don't think we were actively pursuing Schlupp in the window a lot of press speculation based on our previous interest no doubt fueled by Schlupp's agent trying to get him a move.

Pulis has said the priority is the central areas. In that respect Livermore is the next taxi off the rank after Schniederlin. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BoingFlyer on January 17, 2017, 08:39:51 AM


A defensive midfielder who is currently playing as a CB for Hull this season. Maybe he is being bought in to replace Mcauley/olsson and offer cover for the midfield two?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 17, 2017, 09:03:26 AM
for me and eddy hes no better than gardner, he doesnt even start for Hull

He's played 21 games so far (in all comps) and been a sub once (last league game against Bournemouth as he was returning from illness). He has been subbed off in 4 league matches. Not sure where you get the idea "he doesn't even start for Hull".

Much better than Gardner, can play a pass and make a tackle.

As others have said he can also play at centre half. Talking to friends he has been good at the back too, didn't look out of place.

This from today's Hull Daily Mail:

http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/opinion-hull-city-s-jake-livermore-cannot-be-allowed-to-leave/story-30061018-detail/story.html
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 17, 2017, 09:53:01 AM
I can't believe we're hoping to improve our midfield with Livermore. Regardless if he's better than Gardner, we could really do with players that can improve the starting 11 as the club have been saying for the past few windows. Signing an average midfielder just because he can play centre back?? Why not just sign another centre back?

If we're signing him to start ahead of Fletcher, he's only got 1 goal and 1 assist all season so can't really see the point. We've already got Yacob to hold and really need a more expansive box-to-box type.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 17, 2017, 09:58:59 AM
I can't believe we're hoping to improve our midfield with Livermore. Regardless if he's better than Gardner, we could really do with players that can improve the starting 11 as the club have been saying for the past few windows. Signing an average midfielder just because he can play centre back?? Why not just sign another centre back?

If we're signing him to start ahead of Fletcher, he's only got 1 goal and 1 assist all season so can't really see the point. We've already got Yacob to hold and really need a more expansive box-to-box type.


for me Gardner is the better bet and i agree with you that he is no improvement, just desperation now with 2 weeks left is how i see it having let Gardner go. 15 million was he who demanded wearing a mask and a striped jumper
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 17, 2017, 09:59:29 AM
Now being reported that Hull want £15m. I really hope that we do not spend that amount on him. If we cannot do better than him for that amount, then give Sam Field his opportunity.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BoingFlyer on January 17, 2017, 10:05:23 AM
Does he work hard and can he play centre back?

His playing CB for Hull this season  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: barnestormer on January 17, 2017, 10:17:36 AM
Lots of reports saying a club record transfer fee in if we want him,a big no thank you if so and get back in for
Carvahalo money spent better
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 17, 2017, 10:22:20 AM
Please don't break a club transfer record on a bloke who won't be much of a step up from Gardner. Stupid transfer. Hope it's just paper talk
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 17, 2017, 10:36:55 AM
Some of you Albion fans must also be hull fans having given Livermore so much stick you must watch him every week. Iv`e been around a long time and I cannot form a proper opinion on the player having only seen him in the odd live match and MOTD If and I mean If he does sign I will be right behind the player like I am with all our player`s [except one ]
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 17, 2017, 11:00:31 AM
Some of you Albion fans must also be hull fans having given Livermore so much stick you must watch him every week. Iv`e been around a long time and I cannot form a proper opinion on the player having only seen him in the odd live match and MOTD If and I mean If he does sign I will be right behind the player like I am with all our player`s [except one ]


of course he will get grace from supporters if he signs.i keep forgetting we have a billionaire owner now and getting a little carried away slightly. just expecting a little better than someone whos no better thats all
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 17, 2017, 11:02:53 AM
Would be extremely disappointed in the club if we went to £15m for him. Would smack of desperation.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kie the baggie on January 17, 2017, 11:09:37 AM
Save the money for the summer
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mr Cynical on January 17, 2017, 11:12:56 AM
If the choice is:
Livermore at £10m (or more) who is ready to play and tuned in for PL football
or
Camacho at £18m who may take a while to settle in an become completely effective

Its a no brainer, with only 3 more wins needed this season...  But there is silence regarding Camacho - and whether that is a good or bad thing as far as West Brom is concerned is another matter.

One has reached his peak, will not increase in value and will put in workman-like appearances.  The other could shine brightly, attract a profit and draw other players to our club.  (When was the last time we sold a player for a decent profit?)

I think it's one of the downsides with having Pulis in charge.  Proven, steady, players who you can rely on, but you'll never make money on.  The recruitment should mix this with younger players who are going to come in, make and impact and significantly increase in value.  (Not that Camacho is much younger than Livermore, just that he could prove himself in the PL and become an attractive target for a bigger club - like the Southampton production line.)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 17, 2017, 11:14:44 AM
I can't believe we're hoping to improve our midfield with Livermore. Regardless if he's better than Gardner, we could really do with players that can improve the starting 11 as the club have been saying for the past few windows. Signing an average midfielder just because he can play centre back?? Why not just sign another centre back?

If we're signing him to start ahead of Fletcher, he's only got 1 goal and 1 assist all season so can't really see the point. We've already got Yacob to hold and really need a more expansive box-to-box type.

Fletcher also has 1 goal and 1 assist this season too. Livermore has a pass success rate of 85% over Fletchers' 77%. That extra 8% could be the difference between starting attacks off and losing possession in dangerous positions.

Having said that £15m is too much for him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on January 17, 2017, 12:02:02 PM
If the choice is:
Livermore at £10m (or more) who is ready to play and tuned in for PL football
or
Camacho at £18m who may take a while to settle in an become completely effective

Its a no brainer, with only 3 more wins needed this season...  But there is silence regarding Camacho - and whether that is a good or bad thing as far as West Brom is concerned is another matter.

One has reached his peak, will not increase in value and will put in workman-like appearances.  The other could shine brightly, attract a profit and draw other players to our club.  (When was the last time we sold a player for a decent profit?)

I think it's one of the downsides with having Pulis in charge.  Proven, steady, players who you can rely on, but you'll never make money on.  The recruitment should mix this with younger players who are going to come in, make and impact and significantly increase in value.  (Not that Camacho is much younger than Livermore, just that he could prove himself in the PL and become an attractive target for a bigger club - like the Southampton production line.)

I agree with this, but at the same time there's no given that Camacho comes and performs. There's been a history of Italian/Spanish midfielders who look excellent domestically yet struggle with the English game. Personally I'd still try Camacho by the sounds of things but I can kind of see where Pulis is coming from, I just wish sometimes he'd take more risks in the transfer market.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on January 17, 2017, 12:21:29 PM
Some of you Albion fans must also be hull fans having given Livermore so much stick you must watch him every week. Iv`e been around a long time and I cannot form a proper opinion on the player having only seen him in the odd live match and MOTD If and I mean If he does sign I will be right behind the player like I am with all our player`s [except one ]

Livermore and Huddleston both left Spurs for Hull.
Not Man u, not Liverpool not Arsenal.
Hull.
So whilst some of us are trying to big this transfer up all you have to do is ask yourself a couple of questions
Would he improve our starting 11? Barely
Who would he play instead of? G Mac, Fletcher Yacob? Maybe but not a great improvement bearing in mind as fans we're looking to push on to hold onto 8th and above.
It looks to me as if its buying a player for buyings sake, if thats the case we can carry on until the end of the season then buy what we really want
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 17, 2017, 12:31:03 PM
Do you really think our manager and scouts don`t know what Livermore is about I would rather trust there judgment  than any everyday fan. As for improving our starting eleven you cannot judge that until he plays for whoever he signs for .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 17, 2017, 12:41:59 PM

A defensive midfielder who is currently playing as a CB for Hull this season. Maybe he is being bought in to replace Mcauley/olsson and offer cover for the midfield two?

He played at centre back earlier in the season while Dawson was injured. Hull play a back 3 of Dawson, Maguire and Davies.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 17, 2017, 12:47:14 PM
He played at centre back earlier in the season while Dawson was injured. Hull play a back 3 of Dawson, Maguire and Davies.

Very true sir.

CB for the first seven games of the season.

CM/DM for the rest.

http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jake-livermore/leistungsdaten/spieler/61832 (http://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jake-livermore/leistungsdaten/spieler/61832)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WoysWunderful on January 17, 2017, 01:04:11 PM

of course he will get grace from supporters if he signs.i keep forgetting we have a billionaire owner now and getting a little carried away slightly. just expecting a little better than someone whos no better thats all

key word - EXPECTATION
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 17, 2017, 01:14:27 PM
key word - EXPECTATION


always going to grow given the position we are in
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Morany on January 17, 2017, 01:35:35 PM
I would take him, but the mentions of him being our transfer record puts me off. Not that good
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Nathan on January 17, 2017, 01:56:29 PM
Totally uninspiring and vastly over inflated fee. If he signs, it's certainly not a signing to help get extra bums on seats and help develop any interest in the club that's for sure. Surely that is what the new owners are hoping for? Surely they want to see the name of West Bromwich Albion spoken about with a bit of excitement in China, etc? I'm afraid Jake Livermore just isn't going to do it. That's not to say he doesn't tick the Pulis boxes and he might be OK, it's just as I say, a bit uninspiring.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: darby009 on January 17, 2017, 01:56:51 PM
Firstly MODS this is not an attack at any individual, but if people read this and feel a little aggreaved then maybe they need to reflect on my points.. :-[

I have been reading through this whole thread regarding Livermore and also some of the others regarding transfers and general play and the way the club is run.

it strikes me that there is the following problem with not just our fans but the new generation of football fans across England that means i make the following 10 observations...

1) a lot of these people play too much football manager and fifa and gain all their football knowledge from simulation games and use this to form an argument

2) i expect that the majority of the voices heard have never kicked a ball themselves outside of the school playground (i have to make this opinion when i read some of the so called tactical comments and starting line-ups people suggest)

3) fans seem to think that they are the only ones who are correct and are not willing to see the perspective of other or even skilled trained coaches who work and see these players everyday.

4) fans get angry as though a club is spending "their money"

5) Our fans seem to think it is OK for us to push the price of a player up but other clubs are not allowed to do it to us

6) when we do find out ITK info we are not satisfied until we have hounded and harassed the source to the point that they no longer wish to share information and ruin it for others.

7) £10m is only the new £5m when it suits your argument... ie now £15m is only the new £9m and considering spurs sold him to hull for £8m is that really too bad???? (PS he left THFC for first team premier league football rather than sit on the bench and collect his money .. that has to be a good thing, and looking at their midfield can you blame him)

8) if our fans don't like you as a player or you dont have a foreign sounding name we will slate you regardless and even before you kick a ball for us.... just as Gmac, Robson-Kanu and others who have had the same treatment.

9) Our have have delusions of grandeur is we think we are ever going to finish higher than 7th in the premier league.

10) Our fans seem to believe every snippet from every dodgy website then castigate the club for not signing a player that we may not have even been interested in signing..... but hey why not it a good chance to slag off our own club.....

it is because of this pure Bl00dy mindedness, plus lack of understanding and appreciation of what the club are trying to achieve in a structured organic manner that for the past 5 years i have sat in the stands watching the team i love and put my head phones in to listen to some station or other while the game is going on.... because that way i do not have to listen to the complete and utter tosh that some of our fans spout.......

FOR CRYING OUT LOAD  LADS... get behind our club, start appreciating what we currently have because believe me (and this is a message for the new generation) you dont know how good you have it compared to some of the rubbish i have had to watch over the years at  places like notts county and Chester away in the poring rain and getting tonked 5-0 away at grimsby.....

we are trying to build a SQUAD, not just a good 11, Jake Livermore is a decent pro, who will add to the team give the guy and the club a break you are starting to sound like villa and wolves fans... >:(

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: barnestormer on January 17, 2017, 02:29:10 PM
Firstly MODS this is not an attack at any individual, but if people read this and feel a little aggreaved then maybe they need to reflect on my points.. :-[

I have been reading through this whole thread regarding Livermore and also some of the others regarding transfers and general play and the way the club is run.

it strikes me that there is the following problem with not just our fans but the new generation of football fans across England that means i make the following 10 observations...

1) a lot of these people play too much football manager and fifa and gain all their football knowledge from simulation games and use this to form an argument

2) i expect that the majority of the voices heard have never kicked a ball themselves outside of the school playground (i have to make this opinion when i read some of the so called tactical comments and starting line-ups people suggest)

3) fans seem to think that they are the only ones who are correct and are not willing to see the perspective of other or even skilled trained coaches who work and see these players everyday.

4) fans get angry as though a club is spending "their money"

5) Our fans seem to think it is OK for us to push the price of a player up but other clubs are not allowed to do it to us

6) when we do find out ITK info we are not satisfied until we have hounded and harassed the source to the point that they no longer wish to share information and ruin it for others.

7) £10m is only the new £5m when it suits your argument... ie now £15m is only the new £9m and considering spurs sold him to hull for £8m is that really too bad???? (PS he left THFC for first team premier league football rather than sit on the bench and collect his money .. that has to be a good thing, and looking at their midfield can you blame him)

8) if our fans don't like you as a player or you dont have a foreign sounding name we will slate you regardless and even before you kick a ball for us.... just as Gmac, Robson-Kanu and others who have had the same treatment.

9) Our have have delusions of grandeur is we think we are ever going to finish higher than 7th in the premier league.

10) Our fans seem to believe every snippet from every dodgy website then castigate the club for not signing a player that we may not have even been interested in signing..... but hey why not it a good chance to slag off our own club.....

it is because of this pure Bl00dy mindedness, plus lack of understanding and appreciation of what the club are trying to achieve in a structured organic manner that for the past 5 years i have sat in the stands watching the team i love and put my head phones in to listen to some station or other while the game is going on.... because that way i do not have to listen to the complete and utter tosh that some of our fans spout.......

FOR CRYING OUT LOAD  LADS... get behind our club, start appreciating what we currently have because believe me (and this is a message for the new generation) you dont know how good you have it compared to some of the rubbish i have had to watch over the years at  places like notts county and Chester away in the poring rain and getting tonked 5-0 away at grimsby.....

we are trying to build a SQUAD, not just a good 11, Jake Livermore is a decent pro, who will add to the team give the guy and the club a break you are starting to sound like villa and wolves fans... >:(
Jake Livermore is a decent pro who will strengthen the squad and not the first 11 and certainly not for a club record of maybe 15 million that's just plain daft and a waste of our limited resources
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: adamw1109 on January 17, 2017, 02:38:17 PM
Jake Livermore is a decent pro who will strengthen the squad and not the first 11 and certainly not for a club record of maybe 15 million that's just plain daft and a waste of our limited resources

No one thought nyom would be any good, people were also against phillips when he first started... saying he will not strengthen the first 11 without even giving him a chance and before he has even signed is exactly what darby009 is getting at.

Yes it may seem abit pricey, but the amount of money being pumped into the sport and the crazy prices people are paying for players... to strengthen we are going to need to break our low 'club record' a few times unless pulis wants a load of squad fillers.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 17, 2017, 02:38:46 PM
To me darby that`s a well thought out post I have been around the game in one source or more for a long time and will defend the Albion`s recruitment policy to anyone, they do everything in the best interests of the club what fans should remember is what is a good player to us might not have the right attributes for the management and recruiting team If we are going for Livermore who is a very good player he will have been seen to fit into our style of play and who knows we may pull someone out the hat like Evan`s, Fletcher and Chadli. In 3 of the last 4 window`s we have bought in a player to get exited about so let`s just wait and see.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: halifax_baggie on January 17, 2017, 02:43:14 PM
Sorry but you are taking up valuable, slagging off and meltdown space on this important topic with such bizarre views of the modern day fan :-*
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ian66 on January 17, 2017, 02:50:14 PM
Great post darby009.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 17, 2017, 02:54:30 PM
I agree with everything you say Darby - nice one.

For the record I don't play FIFA or Football Manager!

Well said.......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on January 17, 2017, 03:08:03 PM
Jake Livermore is a decent pro who will strengthen the squad and not the first 11 and certainly not for a club record of maybe 15 million that's just plain daft and a waste of our limited resources

I think he would be better than Fletcher in the middle which would mark an improvement as a signing. Fletcher was bought in for his energy in the middle and his accurate passing, which this season has dropped off significantly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Canmore Baggie on January 17, 2017, 03:26:12 PM
I think he would be better than Fletcher in the middle which would mark an improvement as a signing. Fletcher was bought in for his energy in the middle and his accurate passing, which this season has dropped off significantly.

He may well be an improvement on an aging Fletcher - my concern is whether TP would play him in that role and drop Fletcher to the bench. Fletcher seems to be pretty much the first name on Tone's teamsheet every week...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 17, 2017, 03:45:25 PM
Firstly MODS this is not an attack at any individual, but if people read this and feel a little aggreaved then maybe they need to reflect on my points.. :-[

I have been reading through this whole thread regarding Livermore and also some of the others regarding transfers and general play and the way the club is run.

it strikes me that there is the following problem with not just our fans but the new generation of football fans across England that means i make the following 10 observations...

1) a lot of these people play too much football manager and fifa and gain all their football knowledge from simulation games and use this to form an argument

2) i expect that the majority of the voices heard have never kicked a ball themselves outside of the school playground (i have to make this opinion when i read some of the so called tactical comments and starting line-ups people suggest)

3) fans seem to think that they are the only ones who are correct and are not willing to see the perspective of other or even skilled trained coaches who work and see these players everyday.

4) fans get angry as though a club is spending "their money"

5) Our fans seem to think it is OK for us to push the price of a player up but other clubs are not allowed to do it to us

6) when we do find out ITK info we are not satisfied until we have hounded and harassed the source to the point that they no longer wish to share information and ruin it for others.

7) £10m is only the new £5m when it suits your argument... ie now £15m is only the new £9m and considering spurs sold him to hull for £8m is that really too bad???? (PS he left THFC for first team premier league football rather than sit on the bench and collect his money .. that has to be a good thing, and looking at their midfield can you blame him)

8) if our fans don't like you as a player or you dont have a foreign sounding name we will slate you regardless and even before you kick a ball for us.... just as Gmac, Robson-Kanu and others who have had the same treatment.

9) Our have have delusions of grandeur is we think we are ever going to finish higher than 7th in the premier league.

10) Our fans seem to believe every snippet from every dodgy website then castigate the club for not signing a player that we may not have even been interested in signing..... but hey why not it a good chance to slag off our own club.....

it is because of this pure Bl00dy mindedness, plus lack of understanding and appreciation of what the club are trying to achieve in a structured organic manner that for the past 5 years i have sat in the stands watching the team i love and put my head phones in to listen to some station or other while the game is going on.... because that way i do not have to listen to the complete and utter tosh that some of our fans spout.......

FOR CRYING OUT LOAD  LADS... get behind our club, start appreciating what we currently have because believe me (and this is a message for the new generation) you dont know how good you have it compared to some of the rubbish i have had to watch over the years at  places like notts county and Chester away in the poring rain and getting tonked 5-0 away at grimsby.....

we are trying to build a SQUAD, not just a good 11, Jake Livermore is a decent pro, who will add to the team give the guy and the club a break you are starting to sound like villa and wolves fans... >:(
Its all about opinions, we've all had some howlers.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on January 17, 2017, 06:35:24 PM
I think he would be better than Fletcher in the middle which would mark an improvement as a signing. Fletcher was bought in for his energy in the middle and his accurate passing, which this season has dropped off significantly.

If anyone is to drop out then it will be Yacob IMO. However I would expect to see all 3 in there if he does sign.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on January 17, 2017, 06:49:28 PM
I actually think we need to upgrade both Yacob and Fletcher within the next year.

Fletcher due to his age catching up with him and i would replace him with a proper box to box midfielder with energy, power and creativity.

I also think we need to upgrade Yacob who i feel is a bit one dimensional. He is brilliant at doing what he does (breaking up play), but for us to establish ourselves as a top 10 team i think we need him to break up play and then be able to play a killer pass that can launch a counter attack quickly, not rely on his centre midfield partner to do that. I want the centre midfield partner to be on his way once Yacob gets the ball!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kirk on January 17, 2017, 06:52:09 PM
Sorry most of us have seen him play a lot. I suggest put the money back in the pocket and spend the next 6 months finding players that will improve us, one day we will have a transfer window that isn't a disaster
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on January 17, 2017, 07:03:51 PM
Sorry most of us have seen him play a lot. I suggest put the money back in the pocket and spend the next 6 months finding players that will improve us, one day we will have a transfer window that isn't a disaster
Don't know how much Hull you watch but I suspect that most people haven't actually seen him play a lot.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 17, 2017, 09:59:57 PM
Fletcher also has 1 goal and 1 assist this season too. Livermore has a pass success rate of 85% over Fletchers' 77%. That extra 8% could be the difference between starting attacks off and losing possession in dangerous positions.

Having said that £15m is too much for him.

Exactly, if we're trying to buy a more progressive midfielder to play alongside Yacob, I can't see the point in going for Livermore. However, still can't see us dropping Fletcher anyway, so reckon if this does go through it'd probably be as an expensive back up to centre mid, or (wrongly in my opinion) to compete with Yacob. However again that would go against all the 'improve the starting 11' stuff that's been said for the past few transfer windows
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 17, 2017, 10:16:55 PM
Firstly MODS this is not an attack at any individual, but if people read this and feel a little aggreaved then maybe they need to reflect on my points.. :-[

I have been reading through this whole thread regarding Livermore and also some of the others regarding transfers and general play and the way the club is run.

it strikes me that there is the following problem with not just our fans but the new generation of football fans across England that means i make the following 10 observations...

1) a lot of these people play too much football manager and fifa and gain all their football knowledge from simulation games and use this to form an argument

2) i expect that the majority of the voices heard have never kicked a ball themselves outside of the school playground (i have to make this opinion when i read some of the so called tactical comments and starting line-ups people suggest)

3) fans seem to think that they are the only ones who are correct and are not willing to see the perspective of other or even skilled trained coaches who work and see these players everyday.

4) fans get angry as though a club is spending "their money"

5) Our fans seem to think it is OK for us to push the price of a player up but other clubs are not allowed to do it to us

6) when we do find out ITK info we are not satisfied until we have hounded and harassed the source to the point that they no longer wish to share information and ruin it for others.

7) £10m is only the new £5m when it suits your argument... ie now £15m is only the new £9m and considering spurs sold him to hull for £8m is that really too bad???? (PS he left THFC for first team premier league football rather than sit on the bench and collect his money .. that has to be a good thing, and looking at their midfield can you blame him)

8) if our fans don't like you as a player or you dont have a foreign sounding name we will slate you regardless and even before you kick a ball for us.... just as Gmac, Robson-Kanu and others who have had the same treatment.

9) Our have have delusions of grandeur is we think we are ever going to finish higher than 7th in the premier league.

10) Our fans seem to believe every snippet from every dodgy website then castigate the club for not signing a player that we may not have even been interested in signing..... but hey why not it a good chance to slag off our own club.....

it is because of this pure Bl00dy mindedness, plus lack of understanding and appreciation of what the club are trying to achieve in a structured organic manner that for the past 5 years i have sat in the stands watching the team i love and put my head phones in to listen to some station or other while the game is going on.... because that way i do not have to listen to the complete and utter tosh that some of our fans spout.......

FOR CRYING OUT LOAD  LADS... get behind our club, start appreciating what we currently have because believe me (and this is a message for the new generation) you dont know how good you have it compared to some of the rubbish i have had to watch over the years at  places like notts county and Chester away in the poring rain and getting tonked 5-0 away at grimsby.....

we are trying to build a SQUAD, not just a good 11, Jake Livermore is a decent pro, who will add to the team give the guy and the club a break you are starting to sound like villa and wolves fans... >:(

Decent post, but I disagree with a few points and find them a bit condescending.

1) I don't play football manager or use them to form my opinion of players
2) Not sure you have to have kicked a ball to form an opinion on the team
3) Agreed we all have differing ideas, but doesn't mean they are wrong just because we aren't 'skilled trained coaches'
4) I think the worry is if we start throwing money around carelessly and end up paying the price for it. I mean potentially breaking transfer records on players that some think are good replacements for our backup centre midfielder can't be sustainable in the long run - look at Portsmouth et al.
5) Of course we want to get the highest price for our players and pay the lowest for new ones.. Would you suggest giving players away for free and paying £50 million for every signing?
6) Haven't really seen any ITK info on this thread or others
7) I wouldn't consider him worth twice the amount as when he left Spurs, regardless of inflated prices
8) Agree there were some (rightful) doubts on some of the unknown signings. Some have gone on to prove themselves, some haven't, as is life.
9) We will never finish above 7th unless we change our mentality, starting with the fans. If we settle for mid table every year that's all we will ever be. I don't think it's a bad thing to dream or have ambitions.
10) Not sure that's true. Think the rumours are just discussed and debated. Heaven forbid this happens on a forum.

So I don't agree with most points, but that's just me. We're all entitled to an opinion and it's getting a bit boring seeing loads of posts in every thread slagging other people off for debating and sharing their opinion. I mean what has any of this got to do with Jake Livermore..
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 17, 2017, 10:20:46 PM
Exactly, if we're trying to buy a more progressive midfielder to play alongside Yacob, I can't see the point in going for Livermore. However, still can't see us dropping Fletcher anyway, so reckon if this does go through it'd probably be as an expensive back up to centre mid, or (wrongly in my opinion) to compete with Yacob. However again that would go against all the 'improve the starting 11' stuff that's been said for the past few transfer windows
Crazy money if its a back up player at £15m.
The starting 11 quote wasn't the best PR the clubs put out, its a stick to beat the club with if the players to improve the first team are unaffordable or unavailable. would be best to say nothing, damned if they do and all that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 17, 2017, 10:25:28 PM
Crazy money if its a back up player at £15m.
The starting 11 quote wasn't the best PR the clubs put out, its a stick to beat the club with if the players to improve the first team are unaffordable or unavailable. would be best to say nothing, damned if they do and all that.

I've thought that throughout too. However since it was mentioned so many times it does make me think that we really are going for quality this window. Apart from the Schniderlin bid have any other of the rumours actually been confirmed by the club? If not, maybe Schniderlin is the level we are looking at, and we have a few more going under the radar behind the rumours
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 17, 2017, 10:45:49 PM
I've thought that throughout too. However since it was mentioned so many times it does make me think that we really are going for quality this window. Apart from the Schniderlin bid have any other of the rumours actually been confirmed by the club? If not, maybe Schniderlin is the level we are looking at, and we have a few more going under the radar behind the rumours
don't think the club have actually said we've made a bid for Livermore or have I missed that.
Schneiderlin was definitely mentioned by Pulis. like you say we will probably sign players where there's been no rumour.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 17, 2017, 10:57:05 PM
you could well be Caravan very little coming out of the Hawthorns
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on January 17, 2017, 11:38:37 PM
If were going for a Hull player, I'd be going for Snodgrass. A very influential player and very good goals record for a struggling team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 18, 2017, 08:21:07 AM
If were going for a Hull player, I'd be going for Snodgrass. A very influential player and very good goals record for a struggling team.

Agreed, could give us another option on the wing that can deliver a decent ball for when Brunt isn't playing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 18, 2017, 08:22:24 AM
If were going for a Hull player, I'd be going for Snodgrass. A very influential player and very good goals record for a struggling team.

To be honest with you if Hull really do want close to £15M for Livermore then they will want even more for Snodgrass as he has either scored or assisted in around 50% of their goals.

The problem with buying the better players from clubs in relegation trouble is that the selling club are always going to value that player at a level that reflects the importance of that player to the club. Livermore isn't worth £15M Hull know that but what they also know is they will pretty much be nailed on for relegation if they allow him to go (same with Snodgrass) so they are putting up a price which will allow them to get in a decent replacement. If they can keep Livermore they will have a better chance of staying up.

As I said in a previous post Livermore has an 85% pass completion rate only Morrison (84%), Chadli (82.5%) and Claudio Yacob (81%) are remotely close. Do we really want to turn our noses up at a midfielder with a better pass completion rate than any of our existing midfielders? (all stats from whoscored.com).

I'd have loved us to have got Schneiderlin but that was unlikely once Everton declared an interest and Fabian Delph could have been good too but it appears Man City don't want to sell him, so if we see CM as a position that needs strengthening then Livermore makes some sense.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on January 18, 2017, 09:29:47 AM
I think over the years our fans have turned their noses up at players that have gone elsewhere and been a big success. It looks like Livermore will improve our midfield. Yes i would rather it was closer to 10 million but what Hull Baggie is saying is true - look at some of the money we have got back on bang average players over the years because we valued them and didn't want to sell them. I think the only thing we have in our favour is that Hull need to sell to buy (correct if wrong).

He's a good player. He's not as exciting as an exotic foreign name like Camacho or Carvalho but he is premier league experienced and in his prime which are two factors we just have to get used to with Pulis as manager.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 18, 2017, 09:33:36 AM
I think over the years our fans have turned their noses up at players that have gone elsewhere and been a big success. It looks like Livermore will improve our midfield. Yes i would rather it was closer to 10 million but what Hull Baggie is saying is true - look at some of the money we have got back on bang average players over the years because we valued them and didn't want to sell them. I think the only thing we have in our favour is that Hull need to sell to buy (correct if wrong).

He's a good player. He's not as exciting as an exotic foreign name like Camacho or Carvalho but he is premier league experienced and in his prime which are two factors we just have to get used to with Pulis as manager.

Who exactly are you referring to please?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on January 18, 2017, 09:59:35 AM
Who exactly are you referring to please?

To be honest with you they could be tenuous links that have appeared here that some fans poo poo. Countless amounts over the years. An example; some criticised the Aaron Creswell link.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 18, 2017, 10:06:48 AM
The reason that Hull can get more Livermore than Snodgrass is the length of contract I think Hull triggered an extension of only 6 months on Snodgrass giving him a shorter shelf life than Livermore.I personally prefere Livermore great engine good passer and tackler Snodgrass is good but a luxury player
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 18, 2017, 10:10:32 AM
To be honest with you they could be tenuous links that have appeared here that some fans poo poo. Countless amounts over the years. An example; some criticised the Aaron Creswell link.

Is Cresswell really relevant though given the club weren't prepared to meet his asking price, thus meaning he wasn't really in the equation once bidding became serious and it mattered not one jot what supporters felt?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on January 18, 2017, 10:45:39 AM
Is Cresswell really relevant though given the club weren't prepared to meet his asking price, thus meaning he wasn't really in the equation once bidding became serious and it mattered not one jot what supporters felt?

That's pretty much my point; it doesn't really matter what supporters think because we quite often get it wrong. Basically my point is; some are poo pooing this and some have poo pooed past links where the player has turned out to be decent. I'm trying to be reassuring is all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 18, 2017, 11:31:44 AM
The reason that Hull can get more Livermore than Snodgrass is the length of contract I think Hull triggered an extension of only 6 months on Snodgrass giving him a shorter shelf life than Livermore.I personally prefere Livermore great engine good passer and tackler Snodgrass is good but a luxury player

A 'luxury' player is exactly the sort that we require to go along with our generally hard working squad. Make no mistake though, Snodgrass is a true Scot, he puts in a shift.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 18, 2017, 11:48:25 AM
That's pretty much my point; it doesn't really matter what supporters think because we quite often get it wrong. Basically my point is; some are poo pooing this and some have poo pooed past links where the player has turned out to be decent. I'm trying to be reassuring is all.

I think you're going to have to try an awful lot harder than that to reassure some of the members on this site chap  :P  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 18, 2017, 11:51:56 AM
The reason that Hull can get more Livermore than Snodgrass is the length of contract I think Hull triggered an extension of only 6 months on Snodgrass giving him a shorter shelf life than Livermore.I personally prefere Livermore great engine good passer and tackler Snodgrass is good but a luxury player

They both had an extra year triggered by Hull as did Michael Dawson, Harry Maguire, Andy Robertson and someone else who's name escapes me..
 If Snodgrass went for less I would imagine it being more to do with his history of injuries than anything else.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 18, 2017, 11:56:29 AM
Decent post, but I disagree with a few points and find them a bit condescending.

1) I don't play football manager or use them to form my opinion of players
2) Not sure you have to have kicked a ball to form an opinion on the team
3) Agreed we all have differing ideas, but doesn't mean they are wrong just because we aren't 'skilled trained coaches'
4) I think the worry is if we start throwing money around carelessly and end up paying the price for it. I mean potentially breaking transfer records on players that some think are good replacements for our backup centre midfielder can't be sustainable in the long run - look at Portsmouth et al.
5) Of course we want to get the highest price for our players and pay the lowest for new ones.. Would you suggest giving players away for free and paying £50 million for every signing?
6) Haven't really seen any ITK info on this thread or others
7) I wouldn't consider him worth twice the amount as when he left Spurs, regardless of inflated prices
8) Agree there were some (rightful) doubts on some of the unknown signings. Some have gone on to prove themselves, some haven't, as is life.
9) We will never finish above 7th unless we change our mentality, starting with the fans. If we settle for mid table every year that's all we will ever be. I don't think it's a bad thing to dream or have ambitions.
10) Not sure that's true. Think the rumours are just discussed and debated. Heaven forbid this happens on a forum.

So I don't agree with most points, but that's just me. We're all entitled to an opinion and it's getting a bit boring seeing loads of posts in every thread slagging other people off for debating and sharing their opinion. I mean what has any of this got to do with Jake Livermore..

Spot on for the most part.

Whilst 'darby' and other such posters are sick of people looking beyond the veil when it comes to names we are linked with, the fees involved and general matters concerning the club, I am personally sick of people criticising those for questioning such issues.

I fail to see the problem, on a forum, with people debating the merits of any deal or any other club issue. Why does this place exist if not to express opinions? If we all blindly followed everything that anyone holding power did then what sort of a world would we live in? I would like to think we all have the best interests of the club at heart and express our opinions with that in mind, with my personal opinions often being that I do not want my club to be ripped off in the transfer market, which £15m on players like Livermore and Schlupp sadly would be.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 18, 2017, 12:05:19 PM
Spot on for the most part.

Whilst 'darby' and other such posters are sick of people looking beyond the veil when it comes to names we are linked with, the fees involved and general matters concerning the club, I am personally sick of people criticising those for questioning such issues.

I fail to see the problem, on a forum, with people debating the merits of any deal or any other club issue. Why does this place exist if not to express opinions? If we all blindly followed everything that anyone holding power did then what sort of a world would we live in? I would like to think we all have the best interests of the club at heart and express our opinions with that in mind, with my personal opinions often being that I do not want my club to be ripped off in the transfer market, which £15m on players like Livermore and Schlupp sadly would be.

One where we had no choice regarding whether we leave the EU or not.....  :P  :o  :P  :o  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mr Cynical on January 18, 2017, 12:07:09 PM
Firstly MODS this is not an attack at any individual, but if people read this and feel a little aggreaved then maybe they need to reflect on my points.. :-[

I have been reading through this whole thread regarding Livermore and also some of the others regarding transfers and general play and the way the club is run.

it strikes me that there is the following problem with not just our fans but the new generation of football fans across England that means i make the following 10 observations...

1) a lot of these people play too much football manager and fifa and gain all their football knowledge from simulation games and use this to form an argument

2) i expect that the majority of the voices heard have never kicked a ball themselves outside of the school playground (i have to make this opinion when i read some of the so called tactical comments and starting line-ups people suggest)

3) fans seem to think that they are the only ones who are correct and are not willing to see the perspective of other or even skilled trained coaches who work and see these players everyday.

4) fans get angry as though a club is spending "their money"

5) Our fans seem to think it is OK for us to push the price of a player up but other clubs are not allowed to do it to us

6) when we do find out ITK info we are not satisfied until we have hounded and harassed the source to the point that they no longer wish to share information and ruin it for others.

7) £10m is only the new £5m when it suits your argument... ie now £15m is only the new £9m and considering spurs sold him to hull for £8m is that really too bad???? (PS he left THFC for first team premier league football rather than sit on the bench and collect his money .. that has to be a good thing, and looking at their midfield can you blame him)

8) if our fans don't like you as a player or you dont have a foreign sounding name we will slate you regardless and even before you kick a ball for us.... just as Gmac, Robson-Kanu and others who have had the same treatment.

9) Our have have delusions of grandeur is we think we are ever going to finish higher than 7th in the premier league.

10) Our fans seem to believe every snippet from every dodgy website then castigate the club for not signing a player that we may not have even been interested in signing..... but hey why not it a good chance to slag off our own club.....

it is because of this pure Bl00dy mindedness, plus lack of understanding and appreciation of what the club are trying to achieve in a structured organic manner that for the past 5 years i have sat in the stands watching the team i love and put my head phones in to listen to some station or other while the game is going on.... because that way i do not have to listen to the complete and utter tosh that some of our fans spout.......

FOR CRYING OUT LOAD  LADS... get behind our club, start appreciating what we currently have because believe me (and this is a message for the new generation) you dont know how good you have it compared to some of the rubbish i have had to watch over the years at  places like notts county and Chester away in the poring rain and getting tonked 5-0 away at grimsby.....

we are trying to build a SQUAD, not just a good 11, Jake Livermore is a decent pro, who will add to the team give the guy and the club a break you are starting to sound like villa and wolves fans... >:(
It's a fair enough post, but it's built on shaky foundations.  Who knows 'the way the club is run', or for what purpose?  Is it still run so that one man can walk away with the most amount of money possible?  Is everything geared up so Guochuan Lai can walk away with a profit on his £150m investment?  Or maybe take a smaller amount out every year?  Is it run as a rich man's toy or a chinese state toy?  Are they going to pump money in to raise the profile in China/globally?  Is the aim to make an annual 10% profit (as seemed to be Peace's strategy).  This would all educate us (generally) on transfer budgets and set our expectations - which sometimes do get unrealistic.

Peace's world of no publicly stated plan or strategy seems to have been taken to a new level.

Anyhow this is probably not the place to discuss it, so I'll stop.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: overseas baggie on January 18, 2017, 12:29:09 PM
Sky just announced that Hull have turned down a 2nd offer from us.

Time to look abroad Tony.....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: overseas baggie on January 18, 2017, 12:31:38 PM
According to Sky we offered £8m.

West Ham's increased offer for Snodgrass was £6m

Would take them both for £18m!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 18, 2017, 12:44:28 PM
According to Sky we offered £8m.

West Ham's increased offer for Snodgrass was £6m

Would take them both for £18m!


snodgrass is worth double that of Livermore, west Ham taking the pee really. Livermore is worth no more than our second offer
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 18, 2017, 12:55:33 PM
According to Sky we offered £8m.

West Ham's increased offer for Snodgrass was £6m

Would take them both for £18m!

The first offer for Livermore was widely reported as £10M including in local paper up here and on Sky!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: overseas baggie on January 18, 2017, 12:58:42 PM
The first offer for Livermore was widely reported as £10M including in local paper up here.

I suspect £8m plus add-one
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 18, 2017, 01:00:21 PM
I suspect £8m plus add-one

But is that a second bid or the first bid? I've just had a look on Sky transfers page and can't find anything other than we bid £10m on Monday.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 18, 2017, 01:11:36 PM
Looks like were downscaling second bid 2 million lower than the first according to the great  sky  :-[
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 18, 2017, 01:13:26 PM
I would hope our limit would be the £10m and we move on if they are not accepting that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tylerm on January 18, 2017, 01:15:02 PM
cant we swap him for Saido
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 18, 2017, 01:17:01 PM
cant we swap him for Saido


you know what, thats a good shout
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 18, 2017, 01:41:03 PM
But is that a second bid or the first bid? I've just had a look on Sky transfers page and can't find anything other than we bid £10m on Monday.

Read this on the Daily Star site earlier:

"Sky Sports say Hull have rejected West Brom's offer of £8m for midfielder Livermore".

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/579601/Robert-Snodgrass-Jake-Livermore-Hull-West-Ham-West-Brom-transfer-news (http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/579601/Robert-Snodgrass-Jake-Livermore-Hull-West-Ham-West-Brom-transfer-news)

Didn't see a link to Sky, though in all honesty I have not gone out of my way to look.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 18, 2017, 01:43:53 PM
cant we swap him for Saido

What else are we going to offer with Saido to make the deal happen???? :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 18, 2017, 01:45:27 PM
here's a link to Sky

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10731319/west-brom-make-offer-for-hull-midfielder-jake-livermore

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 18, 2017, 01:50:20 PM
here's a link to Sky

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/10731319/west-brom-make-offer-for-hull-midfielder-jake-livermore

Which is 2 days older than the other one.

I haven't got a bloody scooby what's going on, I suspect that between them the Daily Star and Sky haven't either  :) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 18, 2017, 01:54:16 PM
Maybe nothings going on, wouldn't be first time sky have got it wrong , we may have an interest but when our club confirms it ill believe it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 18, 2017, 01:55:10 PM
Which is 2 days older than the other one.

I haven't got a bloody scooby what's going on, I suspect that between them the Daily Star and Sky haven't either  :) .

Agree that no one seems to know what is going on, but the Star seem to be saying that Sky reckon we bid £8m but Sky have no other news of our offer other than the £10M bid story that I linked to. £10M was also quoted in many nationals and also up here in the Hull Daily Mail.
It may be as overseas baggie said that it is really £8M plus add ons to make the £10M?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: botters on January 18, 2017, 02:08:08 PM
Apparently Hull have turned down our offer of 10 million and value him at 15 million. If we really want him then that's what we are going to have to pay. Hull hold all the cards here as they don't have to sell him unless they get the right offer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 18, 2017, 02:10:56 PM
Apparently Hull have turned down our offer of 10 million and value him at 15 million. If we really want him then that's what we are going to have to pay. Hull hold all the cards here as they don't have to sell him unless they get the right offer.

That's what the Hull Daily Mail have reported too.
 I mentioned it in an earlier post that the £15M isn't a true reflection of his value as a player but more a reflection of his value to Hull as a player that if they sell will diminish their chances of staying in the league.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 18, 2017, 02:17:30 PM
I would say £18 to £20m for Livermore and Snodgrass would be a good deal. Hull need funding for new purchases and the new manager may not be happy with these two for whatever reason. Seems like a decent bloke to me, and he will have his own ideas. Cannot see Allam turning down decent offers.....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 18, 2017, 02:20:36 PM
If we were in Hulls shoes would we/want to sell? they've still got a good shout at staying up or would you take the offer thinking we can sign a player equally as good. its unlikely Livermore will ever be valued higher than he is now.   
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on January 18, 2017, 02:29:28 PM
Buying star players off relegation threatened teams in January is very hard road to go down.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 18, 2017, 02:36:12 PM
I would say £18 to £20m for Livermore and Snodgrass would be a good deal. Hull need funding for new purchases and the new manager may not be happy with these two for whatever reason. Seems like a decent bloke to me, and he will have his own ideas. Cannot see Allam turning down decent offers.....

What a damning indictment of the maniacal finances within our national game  :( .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: overseas baggie on January 18, 2017, 04:42:27 PM
Media saying Hull have set a price of £15m, which is crazy money for him

Time to walk away and recruit from Europe
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on January 18, 2017, 04:44:53 PM
Media saying Hull have set a price of £15m, which is crazy money for him

Time to walk away and recruit from Europe

I agree, £12 million would be my maximum, any higher and it's a bit silly, even it todays terms. I don't think TP looks at Europe though, sadly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 18, 2017, 04:55:30 PM
anybody whos willing to pay 15 million wants shooting, 15 million would make him our highest fee paid for a footballer. 15 million would surely condem Fletcher to the back benches. dont do it Albion
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: botters on January 18, 2017, 05:08:35 PM
Couldn't we get Camacho for 15 million?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 18, 2017, 05:17:13 PM
Couldn't we get Camacho for 15 million?

Not played in the Premier League as yet so I don't see Pulis being overly interested. Rondon was the exception but that landed in our lap really.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba_1996 on January 18, 2017, 05:33:57 PM
Whether you rate TP or not (personally, I've warmed my opinion towards him based on results this season), it is undeniable that his attitude to recruitment is holding us back.

I said a few days ago that Livermore would be an ok signing, but at £15m there is so much better talent available abroad. I still can't believe he turned his nose up at Camacho, who is twice the player Livermore will ever be and arguably on a par with Schneiderlin.

There is so much quality out there on wages we could easily double/treble, but Pulis restricts us to the point that spending £15m on Jake Livermore is one of our only options if we want to bring someone in.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 18, 2017, 06:59:13 PM
I would say £18 to £20m for Livermore and Snodgrass would be a good deal. Hull need funding for new purchases and the new manager may not be happy with these two for whatever reason. Seems like a decent bloke to me, and he will have his own ideas. Cannot see Allam turning down decent offers.....

Can't agree I'm afraid. For that kind of money we really need to be bringing in quality.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 18, 2017, 07:12:27 PM
funny really the signing of Livermore dosent seem to have any support apart from on here
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie38 on January 18, 2017, 08:09:48 PM
funny really the signing of Livermore dosent seem to have any support apart from on here

I find it amusing that those same people that were against our ten million pound bid 48 hours ago on Twitter are now saying we should put in more just because they are that desperate to see the club announce a signing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ABaggie on January 18, 2017, 08:17:26 PM
Apparently Hull have turned down our offer of 10 million and value him at 15 million. If we really want him then that's what we are going to have to pay. Hull hold all the cards here as they don't have to sell him unless they get the right offer.

I actually think that in terms of this deal we hold all cards. Hull are favourites to go down with their current team and have no money to buy new players without selling players, whereas we don't need to sign Livermore
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Foster#1 on January 18, 2017, 08:52:26 PM
funny really the signing of Livermore dosent seem to have any support apart from on here

Who cares what people think

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on January 18, 2017, 09:21:26 PM
I say go for it if it's a player Pulis believes will improve us. You lot need to trust TP more that's what I say.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 18, 2017, 09:23:38 PM
I say go for it if it's a player Pulis believes will improve us. You lot need to trust TP more that's what I say.

And why do we need to do that exactly?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on January 18, 2017, 09:26:35 PM
And why do we need to do that exactly?

Have you looked at the league table recently?  :o

Our key players in the team are also players TP signed. Evans, Fletcher, Chadli, Phillips, Rondon
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 18, 2017, 09:30:38 PM
Have you looked at the league table recently?  :o

Our key players in the team are also players TP signed. Evans, Fletcher, Chadli, Phillips, Rondon

Aye, but there is an even longer list of failed signings during his time here...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: timdon on January 18, 2017, 10:15:49 PM
Aye, but there is an even longer list of failed signings during his time here...
And who might those be?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 18, 2017, 10:33:07 PM
cannot always blame a manager if a player fails at a club, players have a responsibility as well.
what constitutes a failure anyway? lots of reasons why players don't get a game injuries, tactical reasons, in form player getting the shirt. and in McManamans case, diving. ;)
can only think of Lambert and although I didn't want us to sign him he was poorer than anyone would have envisaged.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 19, 2017, 08:48:02 AM

Please keep posts relevant to Jake Livermore. Tony Pulis's success and failure rate in transfers should be posted in the Tony Pulis thread.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mister AT on January 19, 2017, 10:37:07 AM
Rumours also flying around that we have agreed a fee with Hull for Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on January 19, 2017, 10:41:02 AM
£10m fee agreed and medical later on today according to John Percy on Twitter.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 19, 2017, 10:44:15 AM
£10m fee agreed and medical later on today according to John Percy on Twitter.

Just had a look and to be fair a lot of Hull fans disappointed about him leaving. Got to be a good sign
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mister AT on January 19, 2017, 10:52:38 AM
Solid signing if it happens.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on January 19, 2017, 10:54:04 AM
Sky transfer news says bid accepted & he's travelling today for talks
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mikkyk on January 19, 2017, 10:54:54 AM
Not bad for £10m in current climate. Should have resale value as well if it doesn't go well but I imagine he'll fit in quite nicely.

Not the marquee signing we hoped for but solid enough.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on January 19, 2017, 11:03:59 AM
Great news if true. And if it is true then usually when this kind of news comes out with us the deal is 99% done.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Black Pearl on January 19, 2017, 11:05:52 AM
Always quite liked Livermore, solid signing, I remember a few on here disappointed when he joined Hull and we did not go for him then.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Morany on January 19, 2017, 11:12:41 AM
It's a solid signing, an upgrade on Gardner who has now gone, and will bring legs to the middle of the park. Also happy to play CB so a fix if we should need one
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 19, 2017, 11:16:25 AM
Just had a look and to be fair a lot of Hull fans disappointed about him leaving. Got to be a good sign

The City fans I know are desperate for them to keep him, moreso than Snodgrass. They really rate his work ethic along with his ability to play a decent forward pass and win a tackle. His pass completion rate is better than any of our current midfielders at 85%.

If true I just hope he will replace Fletcher rather than Yacob but I can't see that happening.

Hull Daily Mail football correspondent has tweeted similar to John Percy:

https://twitter.com/PJBuckingham?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 19, 2017, 11:26:29 AM
It's a solid signing, an upgrade on Gardner who has now gone, and will bring legs to the middle of the park. Also happy to play CB so a fix if we should need one
Could go straight in to CH until Evans fit. Could be another Chester though, whereby looks ok in a back 3 but not so good in a back 4.
Would rather see him in midfield in place of Fletcher.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 19, 2017, 11:27:05 AM
The City fans I know are desperate for them to keep him, moreso than Snodgrass. They really rate his work ethic along with his ability to play a decent forward pass and win a tackle. His pass completion rate is better than any of our current midfielders at 85%.

If true I just hope he will replace Fletcher rather than Yacob but I can't see that happening.

Hull Daily Mail football correspondent has tweeted similar to John Percy:

https://twitter.com/PJBuckingham?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

To be fair it will add competition in an important area of the pitch so that can only be a good thing. A lot of Hull fans saying that it will seal their relegation if he comes to us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on January 19, 2017, 11:29:31 AM
Always quite liked Livermore, solid signing, I remember a few on here disappointed when he joined Hull and we did not go for him then.
TBH I'd have struggled to pick him out of a lineup before this, but he has been England fringe and isn't a bad age for us right now.  Let's see what he's got.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 19, 2017, 11:50:11 AM
this is great news even better if he signs
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Avonbaggie on January 19, 2017, 11:59:39 AM
Could go straight in to CH until Evans fit. Could be another Chester though, whereby looks ok in a back 3 but not so good in a back 4.
Would rather see him in midfield in place of Fletcher.

Chester also flashed across my mind with this potential signing!  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kirk on January 19, 2017, 12:00:32 PM
Sorry no improvement to what we have, dispels the myth that we will only sign players to improve the first 11
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: B_H_Baggie on January 19, 2017, 12:01:25 PM
Sorry no improvement to what we have, dispels the myth that we will only sign players to improve the first 11

Depends if Pulis disagrees with you though, only time will tell by the amount of game time he gets if he signs.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kris_boing on January 19, 2017, 12:17:24 PM
A proper box to box midfielder that we are crying out for.  Younger, far more mobile.  Good signing if we can get him at the right fee.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 19, 2017, 12:18:50 PM
A proper box to box midfielder that we are crying out for.  Younger, far more mobile.  Good signing if we can get him at the right fee.

£10 million is being banded about in the papers
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on January 19, 2017, 12:21:41 PM
£10 million is being banded about in the papers

Which is the modern version of £6m, which is the 2012 version of £3m back in the "good old days".

£10m is a mid-level amount for a starting midfielder these days at Prem level, despite the fact most of us see it as a larger amount.

For my 2pence, if he's replacing Fletcher then it's a move that'll improve the team and that can only be a good thing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Morany on January 19, 2017, 12:25:28 PM
Knowing us, it will probably be more closer to £7/8Mill with add-ons
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 19, 2017, 12:29:00 PM
Which is the modern version of £6m, which is the 2012 version of £3m back in the "good old days".

£10m is a mid-level amount for a starting midfielder these days at Prem level, despite the fact most of us see it as a larger amount.

For my 2pence, if he's replacing Fletcher then it's a move that'll improve the team and that can only be a good thing.

No chance of Pulis dropping Fletcher. He'll probably play Livermore centre back.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 19, 2017, 02:43:21 PM
Alright love, calm down  :o The staff informed us not to mention anything other than Livermore related news in here.

Listed them in a thread a week or so back, not sure which thread it was now, if you are that desperate have a gander for it using the 'search' facility.

Would not trust a man who is only interested in players who have played in the Premier League with our now apparently significant warchest. He may well go on to purchase players in this and future that he will utilise and who may prove to play well for us, but there is so much better value and choice to be had by casting the net wider. We are, and he is, acting to our detriment by not being more open minded in my most humble of opinions.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 19, 2017, 03:06:45 PM
In the Albion`s transfer plan`s I trust if you think they don`t no about all player`s European and worldwide then you do`nt know how top flight football transfers work They have come up with players they believe will be the right fit for our club Livermore being one of them. I would rather trust a man that deals in football as a living than anyone on on this site including me who does not know how it all works
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 19, 2017, 03:15:45 PM
In the Albion`s transfer plan`s I trust if you think they don`t no about all player`s European and worldwide then you do`nt know how top flight football transfers work They have come up with players they believe will be the right fit for our club Livermore being one of them. I would rather trust a man that deals in football as a living than anyone on on this site including me who does not know how it all works

I don't particularly want to get into a discussion with you as it's fruitless as you will blindly follow what the club say and do regardless and also this is a Livermore thread as opposed to a transfer thread, but you can find a balance. There are players out there that can adapt to this league and be successful in it if you are willing to scout and look for them.

I do not know how top flight football transfers work? Do other clubs not bring in players from abroad and  they go on to be the best players in the league? Bergkamp, Henry et al who had not previously played in this league? There is no point naming players as the list is fairly endless, but looking closer to home, Rondon came in with no experience of the league, has been superb with little or no support, Odemwingie was an inspired signing and an utter bargain, ditto with Mulumbu. You do not have to have played in the Premier League to prove a success over here, but the transfer fee for players outside the Premier League will by and large be a lot lower than buying from this league and particularly in buying British.

We act to our own detriment by not casting the net wider.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: koren on January 19, 2017, 04:57:37 PM
Paul Suart ‏@PaulSuartWBA 

Looks like West Brom will unveil Jake Livermore tomorrow. Club hope deal will be done in time for him to be eligible for Sunderland.


Finally our 1st signing in January :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kirk on January 19, 2017, 05:04:55 PM
Hope Blues are paying us £10 million for Garner as this is on par with him. Really surprised the club pays 10 million for a player most of us don't really rate.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie38 on January 19, 2017, 05:11:24 PM
Hope Blues are paying us £10 million for Garner as this is on par with him. Really surprised the club pays 10 million for a player most of us don't really rate.

It doesnt matter what we think. The club are the decision makers not us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 19, 2017, 05:12:14 PM
Hope Blues are paying us £10 million for Garner as this is on par with him. Really surprised the club pays 10 million for a player most of us don't really rate.
Most of us ? Bigging yourself up aren't you mate ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 19, 2017, 05:13:38 PM
its not directly my money, i can just about cope with 10 million, its ridiculous transfers this day and age. 15 million i would have been spitting feathers. will be interesting to see when he actually starts a game. someone getting injured my thinks
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on January 19, 2017, 05:14:35 PM
Should be a solid signing who will put pressure on  Yacob and Fletcher certainly improves the squad.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: we8seals on January 19, 2017, 05:18:21 PM
Massively underwhelmed. This is not a position that we are in dire need of strengthening, particularly with a player who is not a big upgrade on what have got. I'd be amazed if he gets picked ahead of yacob and fletcher so either we will play him out of position ( nothing new there) or he warms the bench (nothing new there either) or we play with three defensive midfield players - perfect fit for us in that case!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on January 19, 2017, 05:20:16 PM
Massively underwhelmed. This is not a position that we are in dire need of strengthening, particularly with a player who is not a big upgrade on what have got. I'd be amazed if he gets picked ahead of yacob and fletcher so either we will play him out of position ( nothing new there) or he warms the bench (nothing new there either) or we play with three defensive midfield players - perfect fit for us in that case!

Centre midfield is a a position we are in massive need to strengthening. Fletcher's form has been below par all season and other clubs have players that can do what Yacob does AND MORE.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on January 19, 2017, 05:22:18 PM
Massively underwhelmed. This is not a position that we are in dire need of strengthening, particularly with a player who is not a big upgrade on what have got. I'd be amazed if he gets picked ahead of yacob and fletcher so either we will play him out of position ( nothing new there) or he warms the bench (nothing new there either) or we play with three defensive midfield players - perfect fit for us in that case!
Weakest area going mate , and slowest.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: cornishbaggie on January 19, 2017, 05:23:37 PM
i think he'll do well here. great signing better than Gardner and definitely competition for the 1st team.

Hull obviously not bothered about getting relegated.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 19, 2017, 05:26:29 PM
its not directly my money, i can just about cope with 10 million, its ridiculous transfers this day and age. 15 million i would have been spitting feathers. will be interesting to see when he actually starts a game. someone getting injured my thinks

I'm about there too. I can stomach it at £10m, would have preferred closer to £8m but would have been deeply unimpressed at anywhere near the £15m that was banded about at one stage.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 19, 2017, 05:40:11 PM
Hope Blues are paying us £10 million for Garner as this is on par with him. Really surprised the club pays 10 million for a player most of us don't really rate.

Speak for yourself.

Hull are gutted he is going and TP can clearly see something in him. I am hoping he brings his mate Snodgrass to be honest.........

Nobody rated Nyom when he joined. How did that work out??
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on January 19, 2017, 06:07:46 PM
TP will not be interested in Snodgrass ,because he has ability on the ball.
Phillips dosen't look to bad for a clogger.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 19, 2017, 06:16:51 PM
no complaints from as long as its Fletcher he replaces.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 19, 2017, 06:41:24 PM
It really does`nt matter who he replaces as long as it improves our midfield I thick he is an upgrade on any of our midfield
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 19, 2017, 06:42:30 PM
Adding youth and mobility in an area where we are short.

Happy indeed and at a sound price too.

Will be a good signing in my view.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on January 19, 2017, 06:48:20 PM
Adding youth and mobility in an area where we are short.

Happy indeed and at a sound price too.

Will be a good signing in my view.
Agreed , suspect he will win a few over quickly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kirk on January 19, 2017, 06:51:14 PM
You can`t win with some of these Albion fan`s we buy player`s but there not the right player`s there  panic buys. no they are the players who our management team deem right for our club I will give them all the support they need and as for kirk well speak for yourself

I speaking for a few, not 1 thinks it is a good signing.... some of our fans have an arsenal syndrome happy to settle for 4th for them for us it's survival in the premier league
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 19, 2017, 06:58:12 PM
are we all assuming he's playing in midfield not in defence?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on January 19, 2017, 07:17:30 PM
10 million is a lot of money, but it isn't 15 million so that is a bonus. I don't mind us signing Livermore, I just didn't want us to pay a ridiculous money when there is so much more value in the market.

Livermore should slot in fairly easily. He will not pull trees up and even £10 million is probably too much but he does have lots of energy and should thrive in a Pulis system.

Hull fans aren't gutted he is going as they feel they need the money but they do admit he has been one of thier better players (if that counts for anything in a relegation doomed side). We need more options in central midfield and we need ore pace and energy. You would imagine he will turn out to be the replacement for the aging but competent Darren Fletcher.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on January 19, 2017, 07:21:34 PM
Looks like a decent signing to me. I think he is a decent all round box to box player who brings flexibility to midfield and defence and to be honest I think he would walk in to either role at the moment replacing either Fletcher (won't happen) or MaCauley - could happen.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: cads_ap_albion on January 19, 2017, 07:22:02 PM
are we all assuming he's playing in midfield not in defence?

Must be honest, this had crossed my mind.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: barnestormer on January 19, 2017, 07:30:05 PM
10 million is a lot of money, but it isn't 15 million so that is a bonus. I don't mind us signing Livermore, I just didn't want us to pay a ridiculous money when there is so much more value in the market.

Livermore should slot in fairly easily. He will not pull trees up and even £10 million is probably too much but he does have lots of energy and should thrive in a Pulis system.

Hull fans aren't gutted he is going as they feel they need the money but they do admit he has been one of thier better players (if that counts for anything in a relegation doomed side). We need more options in central midfield and we need ore pace and energy. You would imagine he will turn out to be the replacement for the aging but competent Darren Fletcher.
They said that about Chester and we all know how that panned out
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie38 on January 19, 2017, 07:39:32 PM
I think this is a good signing. The way i look at it he is approaching his peak age and at 27 has a good level of premier league experience. Not to mention he is versatile. Should we get to the point where we have a injury/suspension crisis he could even fit in at center back. 10 million is the new 5 million. The current market is so inflated and its only going to get worse especially with the amount of money china pump into the sport now. Im not going to give the bloke stick he hasnt even held the shirt up yet and people are already laying into him and quite frankly its a joke.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 19, 2017, 07:45:45 PM
I think this is a good signing. The way i look at it he is approaching his peak age and at 27 has a good level of premier league experience. Not to mention he is versatile. Should we get to the point where we have a injury/suspension crisis he could even fit in at center back. 10 million is the new 5 million. The current market is so inflated and its only going to get worse especially with the amount of money china pump into the sport now. Im not going to give the bloke stick he hasnt even held the shirt up yet and people are already laying into him and quite frankly its a joke.


nobodys going to boo him or give him stick at the ground are they. this is the place where most folk get it off their chest if they dont think its for the best of the club
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DivinePast on January 19, 2017, 07:56:38 PM
I'm hoping for the best and hope he can add much needed skill in the central midfield. Surprised Hull will sell but hopefully it's for our benefit.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Nocky on January 19, 2017, 07:57:09 PM
Good signing this, especially at the reported £10m fee. Looked decent when Hull came to visit a few weeks ok and adds some much needed athleticism to the midfield. An upgrade on both Yacob and Fletcher IMO.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie38 on January 19, 2017, 08:04:45 PM

nobodys going to boo him or give him stick at the ground are they. this is the place where most folk get it off their chest if they dont think its for the best of the club

I find it amusing how people call for new players to sign yet when one happens or is very close to happening. Yet its almost like no Gardner has gone they need to find a new player to make a scapegoat.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on January 19, 2017, 08:19:16 PM
are we all assuming he's playing in midfield not in defence?

I'd assume so, he's under 6 ft so I assume that breaks one of Pulis's age-old rules of putting someone in defence who is too small.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on January 19, 2017, 08:37:43 PM
I find it amusing how people call for new players to sign yet when one happens or is very close to happening. Yet its almost like no Gardner has gone they need to find a new player to make a scapegoat.
What utter rubbish some fancy him some dont, it is called an opinion. I dont fancy him but i hope  he disproves my opinion and becomes a big success for the Albion i will be happy if he does, but because i feel this way doesnt mean i will boo him or not give him a chance. If we all had the same opinion it would be a bit pointless having a  website to discuss things.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on January 19, 2017, 08:56:49 PM
He adds versatility as he can cover a few roles including CB which desperately needs addressing if not now then the summer.

Can pick a pass as well and gives his all for the team. He'll be a good solid addition that will challenge for first team football which is what we want. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smosher34 on January 19, 2017, 08:57:09 PM
well hull played us of the park 1st the other week , Livermore for one could pass to a team mate so happy with this signing . be a good addition
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alwaysbilly on January 19, 2017, 09:01:31 PM
well hull played us of the park 1st the other week , Livermore for one could pass to a team mate so happy with this signing . be a good addition
He stood out to me that day, strong, good passing and a yard of pace. Big improvement on Gardner and will cover Jacob or Fletcher nicely and can drop in to cover Evans instead of Calamity Olsson
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 19, 2017, 09:04:17 PM
It`s not rubbish how can fan`s rubbish a player they don`t know we all have opinions yes but how can you base an opinion on some one you`ve hardly seen play, when or if he arrives at the Hawthorns after  a few month`s then you base your opinion but until then he should alway`s get your support
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on January 19, 2017, 09:24:35 PM
It`s not rubbish how can fan`s rubbish a player they don`t know we all have opinions yes but how can you base an opinion on some one you`ve hardly seen play, when or if he arrives at the Hawthorns after  a few month`s then you base your opinion but until then he should alway`s get your support
If this is meant for me where have i rubbished him? where have i said i wouldnt support him? how do you know what i have seen of him and in my opinion for less money Snodgrass is a better player!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 19, 2017, 09:28:26 PM
If this is meant for me where have i rubbished him? where have i said i wouldnt support him? how do you know what i have seen of him and in my opinion for less money Snodgrass is a better player!

I don't mean to intrude, but I think 13 may be referring to Kirk's post on the previous page.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on January 19, 2017, 09:32:54 PM
I don't mean to intrude, but I think 13 may be referring to Kirk's post on the previous page.
No problem Dan it could have been meant for me though!!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 19, 2017, 09:33:20 PM
well hull played us of the park 1st the other week , Livermore for one could pass to a team mate so happy with this signing . be a good addition

Doesn't every team play us off the park though
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: we8seals on January 19, 2017, 09:36:23 PM
Weakest area going mate , and slowest.
b
Have you not seen our centre backs ?? And the two least droppable players under TP are CY and DF
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smosher34 on January 19, 2017, 09:50:12 PM
Doesn't every team play us off the park though
afraid to say yes , so will players like Livermore coming in help us play abetter passing game . I for one would like to think so .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 19, 2017, 10:05:25 PM
b
Have you not seen our centre backs ?? And the two least droppable players under TP are CY and DF
CY still has life in him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kirk on January 19, 2017, 10:23:21 PM
I don't mean to intrude, but I think 13 may be referring to Kirk's post on the previous page.

Sorry but I have never booed any player who has played for our club in my life. Easy to just accept everything the club says and does and throw insults to any one who disagrees. Perhaps you should question the fans who have booed brunt, morrison, Olson and Gardner but I guess that doesnt suit your rose tinted glasses
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 19, 2017, 10:24:11 PM
I think it's a decent deal. However. I also think he will play instead of James Morrison.

ie in a 3 with Yacob and Fletcher, then two wide men Phillips and Chadli, with Rondon up front.

Damn shame as he is an instant improvement on Darren Fletcher.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 19, 2017, 10:25:29 PM
Sorry but I have never booed any player who has played for our club in my life. Easy to just accept everything the club says and does and throw insults to any one who disagrees. Perhaps you should question the fans who have booed brunt, morrison, Olson and Gardner but I guess that doesnt suit your rose tinted glasses

Heard you're a big fan of Albion player James McClean.... Lets hope Jake wears his poppy!!  :-X
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: overseas baggie on January 19, 2017, 10:31:14 PM
I think it's a decent deal. However. I also think he will play instead of James Morrison.

ie in a 3 with Yacob and Fletcher, then two wide men Phillips and Chadli, with Rondon up front.

Damn shame as he is an instant improvement on Darren Fletcher.

Sadly I think you are right re Morrison.  I suspect that he's likely to get sacrificed.  When he's on song, like Brunt, we have looked a far better side.  I can see us being open to offers for him, if not now then certainly in the summer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kirk on January 19, 2017, 10:41:01 PM
Heard you're a big fan of Albion player James McClean.... Lets hope Jake wears his poppy!!  :-X

Still have never booed him though !!!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 19, 2017, 10:59:02 PM
I have never booed or slagged off any player  except  the one`s who do wrong by the club and iv`e  never booed them and never will. Any rumour`s about player`s I have not seen enough of I won`t base an opinion on until I have seen enough of them but if they put on the Baggies shirt I know they will give there all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 19, 2017, 11:02:19 PM
I have never booed or slagged off any player  except  the one`s who do wrong by the club and iv`e  never booed them and never will. Any rumour`s about player`s I have not seen enough of I won`t base an opinion on until I have seen enough of them but if they put on the Baggies shirt I know they will give there all.

So you have booed players then
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ripryan1971 on January 19, 2017, 11:16:43 PM
Not sure if I'm allowed to post this but here's the full game  WBA V HULL few weeks ago.
I haven't watched it back yet and it's only stats, Livermore made the most passes and tackles than any other player in this game. Can't imagine any of you watching but for those who do its there.

http://www.fullmatchreplay.com/replay.php?match=219223&vid=67247
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 19, 2017, 11:49:33 PM
Can we please stick to Jake Livermore. Posts about people booing or not booing and any other non Livermore related subjects will be deleted.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 20, 2017, 12:42:30 AM
Sorry but I have never booed any player who has played for our club in my life. Easy to just accept everything the club says and does and throw insults to any one who disagrees. Perhaps you should question the fans who have booed brunt, morrison, Olson and Gardner but I guess that doesnt suit your rose tinted glasses

You have a PM.

Oh and I forgot to mention, I don't wear rose tinted glasses  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: 17GD on January 20, 2017, 09:02:14 AM
http://mobile.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/wba-west-brom-jake-livermore-completes-hull-transfer-3528481.aspx

Made official. Welcome, Jake! Look forward to seeing what you bring to the team!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on January 20, 2017, 09:03:38 AM
Solid signing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kc56wba on January 20, 2017, 09:04:23 AM
http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/wba-west-brom-jake-livermore-completes-hull-transfer-3528481.aspx.

Done and dusted.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tgd26 on January 20, 2017, 09:06:53 AM
Good signing IMO.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 20, 2017, 09:09:18 AM
Welcome Jake Livermore, go prove me wrong
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 20, 2017, 09:14:18 AM
Welcome to the club Jake  8) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 20, 2017, 09:18:24 AM
bit of a matt phillips lookalike
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: macc_baggie on January 20, 2017, 09:20:33 AM
My Hull fan mates are disappointed he's coming here which is usually a good sign.

Welcome and good luck.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Doobuy on January 20, 2017, 09:23:24 AM
very good signing

will make us better

surprised hull sold - he was one of their better players and they still have (had) a fighting chance.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 20, 2017, 09:29:14 AM
Welcome Jake enjoy the ride
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 20, 2017, 09:31:26 AM
Welcome. Here's hoping he slots seamlessly in for Fletcher...fat chance sadly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wolverhampton baggie on January 20, 2017, 09:33:03 AM
Good luck Jake...welcome to The Baggies
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 20, 2017, 09:38:34 AM
Welcome Jake.
A good solid signing. Improves the team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bangkokbaggie on January 20, 2017, 09:38:39 AM
A good addition but is there any chance of him displacing Fletcher who seems undroppable?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BB74 on January 20, 2017, 09:40:40 AM
Someone's got nice shiny white teeth.

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/wba-west-brom-tony-pulis-discusses-new-signing-jake-livermore-3528485.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/2016-17/wba-west-brom-tony-pulis-discusses-new-signing-jake-livermore-3528485.aspx)

Good signing, happy with this and it certainly fits with the criteria of players only coming in who can improve the starting 11.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Morany on January 20, 2017, 09:44:54 AM
Happy with it, solid signing.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 20, 2017, 09:54:42 AM
If he replaces fletcher even if it's gradually that's a good signing. If he comes in for yacob it's daft
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: buzzingbaggie on January 20, 2017, 09:55:52 AM
Happy with this, be interesting to see who's dropped Fletcher or Yacob!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on January 20, 2017, 09:58:05 AM
Welcome Jake, here's to a bright future with us
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 20, 2017, 10:01:55 AM
Happy with this, be interesting to see who's dropped Fletcher or Yacob!

I'd imagine there'll be games where we see all three of them in the same side.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ian66 on January 20, 2017, 10:20:50 AM
Welcome Jake, hope your time with us is successful.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiebof on January 20, 2017, 10:26:15 AM
Whether he is the right man, at the right price etc. remains to be seen but he certainly does possess the attributes we are lacking in the middle of the park so a good signing for me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on January 20, 2017, 10:26:21 AM
I'd imagine there'll be games where we see all three of them in the same side.

433   ;) now that would be something to see
hope you didnt mean with him playing CH.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: don1thedon on January 20, 2017, 10:32:28 AM
Welcome to the Baggies Jake now let's push on. COYB
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on January 20, 2017, 10:34:40 AM
 Has to be a good signing , dont understand all the negativity or hesitancy over it
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on January 20, 2017, 10:37:55 AM
If he replaces fletcher even if it's gradually that's a good signing. If he comes in for yacob it's daft
No it's not daft if he proves to be better in the aspects of the game that TP wants that player to cover. Time will tell....he maybe better he may not be.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Black Pearl on January 20, 2017, 10:46:20 AM
Having 3 players competing for 2 places is healthy, but I also think, in some games, all 3 will play.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on January 20, 2017, 10:48:06 AM
A good signing i do not think he is a shoo in for anybody's place but will be in the mix and long term he will be here when Fletcher and Yacob have moved on
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on January 20, 2017, 11:04:38 AM
Welcome to the club Jake

Good solid signing for us
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 20, 2017, 11:06:31 AM
Whoever plays it will mean that we will now have a bit more quality on the bench so its a win/win for me

Pleased with the signing  - welcome Jake!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 20, 2017, 11:07:50 AM
Don`t think Hull manager to impressed about Livermore leaving looks like he wanted him to stay and it was took out of his hand`s .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on January 20, 2017, 11:08:05 AM
it is becoming clear that £10m in the current uk market represents the lower end of premier league cost profile, on this basis JL at 27 years old represents good value.
We may not like the fact, but we have to compete and thus "just get on with it"

welcome JL, hope you do the stripes proud mate.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 20, 2017, 11:11:01 AM
Don`t think Hull manager to impressed about Livermore leaving looks like he wanted him to stay and it was took out of his hand`s .


the alams have started asset stripping
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie38 on January 20, 2017, 11:12:51 AM
Very happy with this! Welcome Jake all the best!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: orville on January 20, 2017, 11:48:37 AM
Welcome to the club Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: koren on January 20, 2017, 11:59:33 AM
Welcome to Albion :)
Let's see he worth £10m or not. :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Black Pearl on January 20, 2017, 12:03:20 PM
it is becoming clear that £10m in the current uk market represents the lower end of premier league cost profile, on this basis JL at 27 years old represents good value.
We may not like the fact, but we have to compete and thus "just get on with it"

welcome JL, hope you do the stripes proud mate.

We used to pay good wages and spend little on transfers, trouble with that model is you tend to get players at the end of their careers and the squad age profile goes up to the point of posing a real risk, such as when TP took over, signing 27 year olds represents much better value in the current market.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mister AT on January 20, 2017, 12:21:30 PM
Welcome Jake. Good luck, hopefully slot in well.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WoysWunderful on January 20, 2017, 12:26:57 PM
Anybody know if hes been signed to play midfield or in defence?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 20, 2017, 12:27:58 PM
Anybody know if hes been signed to play midfield or in defence?

Hang on I'll get my crystal ball out...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WoysWunderful on January 20, 2017, 12:29:39 PM
Hang on I'll get my crystal ball out...

 ;D ;D ;D

Most teams wonder when a players going to debut, meanwhile the albion were still trying to work out if hes been signed as a striker or a goalkeeper
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Xpresso on January 20, 2017, 12:32:26 PM
Just re-watched the Hull game online and his was a stand-out performance, along with the young winger/wing-back Clucas who I think is one we ought consider for the future, and Snodgrass.

Livermore made some telling passes out to the wings, including a great ball for Elmohamady to cross for their goal. He was also calm under pressure and has a good box-to-box engine.

I think he'll turn out to be a ver valuable addition.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on January 20, 2017, 12:32:47 PM
Anybody know if hes been signed to play midfield or in defence?
I'd be highly surprised if it's defence as he's just under 6ft....he could fill in but can't see that being what we signed him for.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggies_24 on January 20, 2017, 12:47:25 PM
Think we missed a trick not trying to tie a deal together with him & snodgrass, I think the Alams would have sold them both for around £15 mill which would have been a real steal for the both of them but it's not to be. Happy with the signing, offers us some much needed athleticism in the middle of the park. I really hope he comes in and plays well enough to keep Fletcher out of the team as it will make us a better team if he does.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WoysWunderful on January 20, 2017, 12:48:54 PM
Spoke to a hull fan and he is gutted, cant work out why theyve sold and i quote best player for peanuts
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 20, 2017, 01:05:40 PM
Can he play tomorrow?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 20, 2017, 01:10:17 PM
Can he play tomorrow?



very likely if Evans is out
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tylerm on January 20, 2017, 01:18:53 PM
Anybody know if hes been signed to play midfield or in defence?

He will replace Yacob
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 20, 2017, 01:29:25 PM

very likely if Evans is out

Hope that's the case. 

Wait. I mean, I hope Evans isn't injured, but if he is then I'd rather Livermore came in than Olsson.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 20, 2017, 01:35:19 PM
Listened to his interview after signing and he says he would like to play farther forward so look out Morrison
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on January 20, 2017, 01:41:58 PM
Anybody know if hes been signed to play midfield or in defence?


I hear he's playing left back  :o
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: stoxman on January 20, 2017, 01:43:34 PM
I wonder why he chose us and why now?

Hull weren't dead and buried. There's still half a season to go and probably 10 clubs in the relegation fight.  He was a guaranteed starter at Hull and loved by the fans.  He had just signed a new contract extension on 23rd December so there was no short term Bosman ruling.

Why leave now to go to a team only slightly further up the food chain rather than get to the summer and view his options?

By the way, I think he'll be good for us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SirTonyM on January 20, 2017, 02:15:26 PM
happy with the signing. Someone may have mentioned this but there is an interview on the bbc site about the loss of his son and his drug test. It really is powerful and you get a sense of who he is and how that changed him. Seems a real person of character which bodes well for the team dynamic.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gerry m on January 20, 2017, 02:42:04 PM
Welcome to the Albion Jake!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 20, 2017, 02:50:11 PM
happy with the signing. Someone may have mentioned this but there is an interview on the bbc site about the loss of his son and his drug test. It really is powerful and you get a sense of who he is and how that changed him. Seems a real person of character which bodes well for the team dynamic.


Here we go for anyone who wants to watch but hasn't had the chance as yet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37204786 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37204786)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Galahad on January 20, 2017, 02:54:21 PM
Tuned down Palce to sign for us also :)

http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/jake-livermore-turned-down-crystal-palace-for-west-bromwich-albion/story-30074153-detail/story.html
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mikkyk on January 20, 2017, 02:57:28 PM
Just re-watched the Hull game online and his was a stand-out performance, along with the young winger/wing-back Clucas who I think is one we ought consider for the future, and Snodgrass.

Livermore made some telling passes out to the wings, including a great ball for Elmohamady to cross for their goal. He was also calm under pressure and has a good box-to-box engine.

I think he'll turn out to be a ver valuable addition.

Have you been watching a different Clucas?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on January 20, 2017, 03:44:41 PM
If Evans isn't fit, I hope he slots in at centre back. By all accounts, he has a decent pass in him, and we need more defenders who are able to open up play with a pass from the back, as opposed to a long punt. In that way you take the game to the opposition rather than handing them back possession of the ball.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 20, 2017, 03:57:29 PM
Just heard Shaun Custis on talk sport laughing at the fee we have paid, he said he cant remember anything Livermore has done aprt form coming on for England as a sub once, reporters eh any decent ones about
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on January 20, 2017, 04:01:41 PM
Just heard Shaun Custis on talk sport laughing at the fee we have paid, he said he cant remember anything Livermore has done aaprt form coming on for England as a sub once, reporters eh any decent ones about

It is a lot of money for an average footballer. Sign of the times I guess. He will improve us though IMO.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 20, 2017, 04:04:09 PM
Just heard Shaun Custis on talk sport laughing at the fee we have paid, he said he cant remember anything Livermore has done aprt form coming on for England as a sub once, reporters eh any decent ones about

Who is Shaun Custis?

Exactly......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 20, 2017, 04:11:48 PM
Just heard Shaun Custis on talk sport laughing at the fee we have paid, he said he cant remember anything Livermore has done aprt form coming on for England as a sub once, reporters eh any decent ones about
hey Devon is this the Talksport you listen to for 5 hours and claim they don't talk shyte. ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on January 20, 2017, 04:17:11 PM
hey Devon is this the Talksport you listen to for 5 hours and claim they don't talk shyte. ;)

hes right he aint worth the money, it wasnt a talkport host that said it Custis calling in, supposed to be top reporter hay he according
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on January 20, 2017, 04:23:13 PM
I can't see him playing CB tomorrow if Evans is out - no time to get to know the defensive shape / drills etc.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: vrabbit on January 20, 2017, 05:04:25 PM
guess he replaces Gardner as the backup to either Yacob or Fletcher, I'm not overly excited about his signing and really wish Field was given more opportunities in that role.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sing on our own on January 20, 2017, 05:08:07 PM
Custis is only saying what we would all say if Villa or someone signed him for the amount we have, he's not worth it and if most of us were picking midfielders for us to sign before the window opened I would be amazed if anyone picked out Livermore so let's not pretend any different.... However he's here and might be a good addition so let's see how he gets on, we might all be impressed who knows!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: cads_ap_albion on January 20, 2017, 05:31:42 PM
Big Sam confirmed that Palace wanted him, so that's two of the most experienced premier league managers who wanted him.
There must be something about him...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wardy65 on January 20, 2017, 06:08:23 PM
Good, solid signing. Always impressed me when he's played against us, & at 27 he's in the prime of his career. The fact he wanted to come to us, tells you how we've come on as a club, & don't look to be a gamble for players anymore, and look like a club that are stayers in the Premier league.
Don't see him playing in our defence, as Pulis as mentioned his 'great engine,' which to me suggests a box to box midfielder.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SirTonyM on January 20, 2017, 06:16:34 PM
Just heard Shaun Custis on talk sport laughing at the fee we have paid, he said he cant remember anything Livermore has done aprt form coming on for England as a sub once, reporters eh any decent ones about

As soon as you said talk sport any argument fell down...custis also works for the sun what a good CV ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on January 20, 2017, 06:32:40 PM
Money in football is stupid  its like London house prices but that's the going rate why worry ,basically Sky are paying the money for these  footballers if we didn't pay them we would soon be back in the Championship
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 20, 2017, 06:44:52 PM
Think Hull will seriously struggle now. Welcome to the club Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Beefy on January 20, 2017, 10:39:16 PM
Please view this interview guys .......
Fantastic insight into the problems Jake had regarding the death of his son, drugs etc ...

https://t.co/cVnpd9GGK3
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 20, 2017, 11:31:34 PM
Please view this interview guys .......
Fantastic insight into the problems Jake had regarding the death of his son, drugs etc ...

https://t.co/cVnpd9GGK3

Very honest and emotional interview.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on January 21, 2017, 10:46:22 AM
To all of you not keen on Jake take a read
West Brom's £10m capture of Jake Livermore has already been laughed off, but it's a better signing than you might think...
Jake Livermore is the newest face in the West Bromwich Albion squad after a £10million transfer from Hull City but before the new Albion signing has even kicked a ball, social media has berated the Baggies signing, but the Hawthorns faithful need not listen to the negativity surrounding the ex-Spurs midfielder as he’s a perfect fit at the Albion and here’s why…

Risk-free investment
£10 million is no longer a significant sum of money in modern football, especially considering the transfer chest the new West Brom owner Guochan Lai has offered to the Albion. The club are still living under their reputation as a conservative and stringy operator in the transfer market because of the previous Chairman Jeremy Peace and his shrewd spending style, yet surely this signing provides evidence that West Brom are willing to spend in order to achieve a top half finish.

I must admit, I heard less commotion over the reported £15 million transfer of unproven Nigerian defensive midfielder Wilfred Ndidi to Leicester, than I have about Jake Livermore’s signing. If anything £10 million for a player considered a pivotal figure for a rival Premier League club fighting relegation, in a position which desperately needs strengthening at your own club seems a very fair price indeed. Frankly, you would be hard pushed to find a player that is more suitable for West Bromwich Albion than Jake Livermore.

A perfect ‘Pulis player’
When I hear the phrase ‘Pulis player’ my mind drifts to players such as Robert Huth, Scott Dann and Peter Crouch – tall players with aerial prowess who will aggressively attack a set-piece and nod it home from six yards. Standing at 5”11, Livermore doesn’t exactly fit the bill in that regard. But if you strip back the Pulis preconceptions, he is everything his manager could ask for.

This season Pulis has carefully implemented a counter attacking approach for the Baggies, he expects tenacity, energy and commitment from his squad and I’m sure if you asked any Hull City fan and they would tell you that Livermore has all these attributes in abundance.

The few occasions I have seen Livermore this year, he has sat deep as a holding midfielder looking to break up play whilst also offering incisive late runs in the final third, exactly the kind of player Pulis loves to work with. The natural box-to-box style to Livermore’s game ensures that West Brom fans can get used to watching another tireless midfielder in an Albion jersey this year.

Versatility
But there’s more to the once-capped England international than just work rate, in fact, he currently holds a remarkable accolade. He is 20th on the Premier League passing charts this term, which places him above household playmakers such as Juan Mata, Adam Lallana and Dele Alli.

Evidently, he has a sound technical side to his game even if the passes are short and simple. This statistic showcases Livermore’s composure on the ball in the middle of park, a gift for Pulis whose side have been liable to giving the ball away cheaply in midfield which is disastrous in a counter attack system. It seems the new signing may have a larger bearing on the success of their tactic than initially suspected.

The versatility of Livermore adds an extra string to his bow which will no doubt get the heels of Pulis’ trademark sneakers kicking. At the beginning of the campaign Livermore filled in at centre half for Mike Phelan’s threadbare Hull City side and the 27-year old impressed many with his ability to read the game. He kept a clean sheet in only his second game starting at centre back in August and Hull have not restricted their opponents from scoring in the league since.

Now, I expect the new Albion no.8 to play in midfield as competition for Claudio Yacob and Darren Fletcher considering Craig Gardner departed the club to return to his boyhood club Birmingham City. However, the fact that he has top flight experience in central midfield, holding midfield and as a centre back provides an extra option for Pulis in what is a shallow squad.

A good signing
Jake Livermore is a very smart signing for the West Midlands outfit, yes, he’s not Morgan Schneiderlin, nor are they paying a premium fee for a player of Schneiderlin’s ilk. £10 million is not a financial risk and even if it was Livermore is a safe bet. He has overcome extremely difficult personal circumstances involving drugs and family loss and I am sure if he can fight through that, he can shrug off talk of a slightly inflated price tag.

He is a mentally resilient player who has notched up 128 Premier League appearances as he enters his physical prime. His work rate, athleticism and defensive capabilities will stand him in good stead at West Brom if he can produce the technical side of his game that he showcased at Hull. His addition to the squad at Albion makes them look a lot stronger as a midfield unit for years to come. Mentally tough, physically impressive and technically proficient; West Brom look to have secured themselves a really useful player.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: section5 on January 21, 2017, 10:56:51 AM
Welcome to the club Jake, shrewd bit of business.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: glosterbaggie on January 21, 2017, 02:41:56 PM
Thanks for that informative write up wba13.
Welcome to the Club Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Lego on January 21, 2017, 03:02:54 PM
Please view this interview guys .......
Fantastic insight into the problems Jake had regarding the death of his son, drugs etc ...

https://t.co/cVnpd9GGK3
Very honest interview, admits he made a mistake and needed help. Taking a real liking to this guy, all the best with your Albion career Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 21, 2017, 03:30:01 PM
On the bench today. Imagine he'll be introduced in the second half
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: barnestormer on January 21, 2017, 06:04:40 PM
Done fine when he came on,will fit in well and bag a few goals imo
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: fatboy_coach on January 21, 2017, 07:13:18 PM
Unlucky not to bury that pull back from McClean. Gets into good positions and looks comfortable on the ball
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jimmy on January 21, 2017, 09:06:05 PM
Looks like he wants to move off the ball a bit, good addition.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on February 04, 2017, 09:22:52 PM
Unfortunate about Yacob but I did think Livermore was pretty impressive today. Clearly more of an engine and more pace than Yacob or Fletcher, comfortable on the ball also.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on February 04, 2017, 09:47:14 PM
Unfortunate about Yacob but I did think Livermore was pretty impressive today. Clearly more of an engine and more pace than Yacob or Fletcher, comfortable on the ball also.

It will leaves TP with a good headache when Yacob recoves.
 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: saml30 on February 04, 2017, 09:49:08 PM
can't believe more hasn't been made of his performance, he was absolutely immense, he was everywhere, just needs to fins his shooting boots!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 04, 2017, 09:49:37 PM
What's unfortunate is that we need to wait for an injury or suspension to see Yacob alongside Livermore in our best midfield 2.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on February 04, 2017, 09:55:04 PM
can't believe more hasn't been made of his performance, he was absolutely immense, he was everywhere, just needs to fins his shooting boots!

He had a great debut very impressed with him, just type of player we were lacking.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 04, 2017, 10:03:26 PM
What's unfortunate is that we need to wait for an injury or suspension to see Yacob alongside Livermore in our best midfield 2.

I don't know if yacob and livermore will be better than todays two. I think Fletcher's passing is better than Yacob's and fletcher is also more forward thinking. Dont get me wrong, Fletchers distribution should be bettee but Yacob tends to play the balls sideways or back. 

I love Yacob but his game is breaking up the opposition so i think against top teams him and livermore would be a good choice but in games we want to control i think Fletcher and livermore
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 04, 2017, 10:07:23 PM
Livermore's passing, pace and athleticism is better than Fletchers, Yacob's tackling, blocking, interceptions and industry is better than Fletchers.

Just my opinion of course.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba_1996 on February 04, 2017, 10:17:32 PM
Livermore and Yacob are our best midfield pairing, I think they'd complement each other well.

As long as Fletcher keep his recent form up then its a good selection headache to have. Although, he did do his usual trick of misplacing a simple pass in their half and not being able to get back to stop the counter a couple times today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on February 04, 2017, 10:20:57 PM
Livermore's passing, pace and athleticism is better than Fletchers, Yacob's tackling, blocking, interceptions and industry is better than Fletchers.

Just my opinion of course.

I totally agree with you on that

I think Fletcher will be hard to drop for Pulis though

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: dan7heman on February 04, 2017, 11:00:27 PM
This guy can pass a footbll, just what we need in midfield. Tough pick 2 from 3 but weve never had quality like this in the prem before. Keep progressing Albion.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on February 04, 2017, 11:02:18 PM
He is what I thought he would be- a good all round midfielder. Good start.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bangkokbaggie on February 04, 2017, 11:57:32 PM
On the stream I was watching in the first-half I thought he looked very useful. Was able to pass the ball forward and accurately. Will be a headache for TP who to select in this position.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: CL3MO on February 05, 2017, 12:41:01 AM
On the stream I was watching in the first-half I thought he looked very useful. Was able to pass the ball forward and accurately. Will be a headache for TP who to select in this position.
I totally agree with you on that

I think Fletcher will be hard to drop for Pulis though

There's some truth in this but Fletcher got the team through the game today. I'm not his biggest fan and I believe his game is on the slope, but his constant taking kept the team organised throughout the difficult later stages in the game.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: cads_ap_albion on February 05, 2017, 10:03:40 AM
Brought two things to central midfield that we haven't had - mobility and creativity.

But he did both at pace.

I was very impressed by him. He covered the back 4 very well.

Felt more comfortable with him on the ball.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jimmy on February 05, 2017, 10:06:04 AM
Cant say I was over the moon when we signed him but just like Philips it looks like we have a quality player that has been under appreciated in the past.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on February 05, 2017, 10:26:04 AM
Another thing he's got is physicality, he's built like a rugby centre. In some games this might not count for much but against Spurs our midfield looked incredibly lightweight physically, easily getting nudged off the ball time and time again.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggieboyfred on February 05, 2017, 11:47:13 AM
great performance today , if he continues in that vein I will be the first to hold my hands up and say my scepticism at his signing was certainly misplaced, keep it going JL
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wobbs68 on February 05, 2017, 01:05:21 PM
Very impressive full debut and he played his position very well, with pace, mobility and quality passing.  Certainly an upgrade to our squad and on this performance he should keep his place. 

As for Fletcher, he brings a lot to the team off the ball and is a great leader, IMO.  It's not all about what you do on the ball but what you do off it and I still think he plays an important role.  Any combination of the 2 from 3 would work for me and you could possibly chuck Sam Field into that equation to make it 2 from 4.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: B_H_Baggie on February 05, 2017, 03:03:03 PM
He's just the type of player we have been crying out for in central midfield. Someone that is disciplined enough to do the dirty work but has enough quality to drive forward with the ball and can also pick out a pass, a real box to box player.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Morany on February 06, 2017, 09:11:48 AM
Been crying out for someone like this, great performance.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: botters on February 06, 2017, 09:17:24 AM
When we signed Livermore people on this forum said he was a defensive midfielder. Well Saturdays game proved that judgement wrong, he is an excellent all round midfielder who has good passing ability and the energy to get forward quickly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wolverhampton baggie on February 06, 2017, 09:40:21 AM
I love Claudio but you could see what Livermore adds on Saturday...keep it up Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 06, 2017, 10:00:31 AM
Very good performance from him, though he should have bagged at least the one goal  :o Was mightily impressed with his fitness levels to make a lung bursting run forward like that in the final minute and after he had cocked the chance up he was soon back in position.

My dream (I do not dream big sadly) would be to see him alongside Claudio, with Fletch biting the bullet, but sadly we know this will never happen.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 06, 2017, 11:30:31 AM
I think Fletcher and Livermore will be more attacking and forward thinking than Yacob and Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 06, 2017, 11:31:03 AM
It's very unsettling having all these players comfortable on the ball, when it used to be that if wee Jimmy was injured that was about the end of it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on February 06, 2017, 11:42:11 AM
Very good performance from him, though he should have bagged at least the one goal  :o Was mightily impressed with his fitness levels to make a lung bursting run forward like that in the final minute and after he had cocked the chance up he was soon back in position.

My dream (I do not dream big sadly) would be to see him alongside Claudio, with Fletch biting the bullet, but sadly we know this will never happen.

We know how much you love Fletcher Fritzl!

Fletch was really good on Saturday, as was everyone else - Jake fitted in really well and I thought we actually looked stronger in midfield. I think that Claudio will become a bench warmer TBH.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 06, 2017, 12:00:04 PM
We know how much you love Fletcher Fritzl!

Fletch was really good on Saturday, as was everyone else - Jake fitted in really well and I thought we actually looked stronger in midfield. I think that Claudio will become a bench warmer TBH.

Be a travesty, that, considering the work he does for us that often goes unnoticed by those who are not so adept at reading the game.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on February 06, 2017, 12:18:34 PM
Tend to agree with you, but I think he is a 'when the going gets tough' type of player and that may not suit our set up for all games..........

You definitely noticed a difference on Saturday with Jake in the side. Nice dilemma to have!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 06, 2017, 12:27:28 PM
I hope that Livermore is going to be seen as an upgrade on and will eventually replace Fletcher.
By upgrade I mean that he is more mobile, has a more accurate passing percentage and importantly is more able to do the box to box work better than Fletcher.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Morany on February 06, 2017, 12:44:51 PM
I hope that Livermore is going to be seen as an upgrade on and will eventually replace Fletcher.
By upgrade I mean that he is more mobile, has a more accurate passing percentage and importantly is more able to do the box to box work better than Fletcher.

I'm not sure , he could replace Yacob for me. He did a good job mopping up the loose stuff but at the same time drove forward, he can tackle well and his distribution is spot on.

For me, he's the nailed on starter and Pulis can go Fletcher at home and Yacob away.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on February 06, 2017, 01:05:26 PM
Brought two things to central midfield that we haven't had - mobility and creativity.

But he did both at pace.

I was very impressed by him. He covered the back 4 very well.

Felt more comfortable with him on the ball.

Put in a great tackle in our own box second half too. Thought it was going to be a penalty but somehow came away with the ball
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 06, 2017, 01:12:10 PM
Jake Livermore eh?

Something else for the Stokies to whinge and bitch over.

Very discontented lot at the mo'.

That site of theirs really does make for some great reading  ;D .

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/265402/jake-livermore (http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/265402/jake-livermore)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on February 25, 2017, 06:29:33 PM
Man of the match for me today. Good tackling, interception and range of passing. Gets up and down the pitch too
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan on February 25, 2017, 06:33:20 PM
Looking a very shrewd signing, he's got a bit of everything, the kind of box to box midfielder we haven't had in a while. He's a tremendous athlete too, still surging up and down the pitch late in the game.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on February 25, 2017, 08:34:30 PM
I said I would not comment on Livermore until I had seen him in a Baggies shirt  well its early days and he has been fantastic at present a very shrewd signing well done TP
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on February 25, 2017, 08:35:29 PM
Good game from Jake today, my motm.
Underwhelmed when signing him and Philips, but both look comfortable and at home here.
Long may it continue.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 25, 2017, 08:46:05 PM
I thought Fletcher had a decent game today by his standards, but I'm desperate to see one (winnable) game where TP pairs Livermore with Yacob.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: halifax_baggie on February 26, 2017, 02:13:01 PM
I thought Fletcher had a decent game today by his standards, but I'm desperate to see one (winnable) game where TP pairs Livermore with Yacob.

Damn having to agree with you twice on the same day - but don't lets get on to Brunt  ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 26, 2017, 02:27:59 PM
I thought Fletcher had a decent game today by his standards, but I'm desperate to see one (winnable) game where TP pairs Livermore with Yacob.

Don't you not think that will be more defensive than Fletcher and livermore? I love Yacob but his range of passing is quite poor and he doesn't have the pace to get up/down the pitch. Yesterday Fletcher was all over the midfield and him and Jake covered for each other plenty of times.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on March 16, 2017, 01:55:01 PM
is in the england squad. well done Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on March 16, 2017, 02:06:05 PM
Nice to see us have an outfield player make the squad. In recent times all I can think of is Berahino...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on March 16, 2017, 02:07:17 PM
Nice to see us have an outfield player make the squad. In recent times all I can think of is Berahino...

Who?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Foster#1 on March 16, 2017, 02:08:57 PM
pooh signing they said
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on March 16, 2017, 03:07:39 PM
Yes those idiots who don`t know a footballer when they see one that rubbish player has been included in the England squad Congrat`s Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: B_H_Baggie on March 16, 2017, 03:07:58 PM
Genuinely surprised by this but it should be a real boost to his confidence. Hopefully he gets a few minutes on the pitch.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 16, 2017, 03:30:07 PM
To be fair, getting in the England squad is not the ordeal it once was, we are fairly poor  ;D

Congrats regardless, though. Southgate clearly didn't watch the Palace game thankfully.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on March 16, 2017, 03:58:38 PM
Congratulations to the lad on his England recall

Nice to get the recognition
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: don1thedon on March 16, 2017, 04:09:44 PM
Smashin' for the lad and the club!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on March 16, 2017, 04:27:12 PM
Yes those idiots who don`t know a footballer when they see one that rubbish player has been included in the England squad Congrat`s Jake.
They are not idiots, they have an opinion like you do, but you don't like it when people disagree with you this is a forum were people express their honest opinion we don't all agree. What a boring world it would be if we did.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on March 16, 2017, 04:28:09 PM
I forgot, well done Jake!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on March 16, 2017, 04:33:49 PM
Congratulations to the lad on his England recall

Nice to get the recognition

Recall? How many times has he been in squad before?

Regardless, well done Jake !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on March 16, 2017, 04:44:12 PM
59 all you harp on about is opinion`s so in my opinion they are idiot`s who don`t know a footballer when they see one Livermore is a bloody good footballer  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: newbaggie on March 16, 2017, 05:17:19 PM
good news.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 16, 2017, 05:50:06 PM
Recall? How many times has he been in squad before?

Regardless, well done Jake !

Has one cap I believe?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sing on our own on March 16, 2017, 06:27:37 PM
Well done on the call up but playing for England isn't much of an achievement we are useless and the laughing stock of world football.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WoysWunderful on March 16, 2017, 06:32:47 PM
england fans are so dramatic its so entertaining ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Black Country Pride on March 16, 2017, 06:38:55 PM
Excellent. Well done to the lad.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on March 16, 2017, 06:52:16 PM
59 all you harp on about is opinion`s so in my opinion they are idiot`s who don`t know a footballer when they see one Livermore is a bloody good footballer  ;D
Fair enough! I must admit he does look good in the triangle with Phillips and Chadli ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 16, 2017, 07:05:04 PM
Good news, well done Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 16, 2017, 07:06:45 PM
To be fair, getting in the England squad is not the ordeal it once was, we are fairly poor  ;D

Congrats regardless, though. Southgate clearly didn't watch the Palace game thankfully.
Nearest thing you can get to a compliment eh mate?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on March 16, 2017, 08:31:43 PM
Credit to Southgate for picking a player who is playing regularly and well ahead of some who have been involved more recently and aren't e.g. Delph, Wilshire and Drinkwater.

I'm pleased for the player and it is good news that an Albion player can achieve international recognition which is useful in attracting players who might harbour international ambitions.




Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 16, 2017, 11:45:18 PM
Nearest thing you can get to a compliment eh mate?

You know me so well, it's as if we are lovers  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on March 16, 2017, 11:52:03 PM
You know me so well, it's as if we are lovers  ;D

Suddenly had a mental picture of iwuztherein68 handcuffed with a gimp mask and a pool ball in his mouth in 'Fritzl's' cellar.

Shocking  :o   ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: eaststandbaggie on March 17, 2017, 06:07:04 AM
What a shame Spurs fans inebriated off because Harry Winks not included but Jake is
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on March 17, 2017, 07:38:36 AM
What a shame Spurs fans inebriated off because Harry Winks not included but Jake is
couldn't give s toss what other fan's think, so we'll done Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 17, 2017, 07:48:42 AM
Suddenly had a mental picture of iwuztherein68 handcuffed with a gimp mask and a pool ball in his mouth in 'Fritzl's' cellar.

Shocking  :o   ;) .

Don't knock it 'til you've tried it  :-*
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on March 17, 2017, 10:03:14 AM
Great news for Jake, and refreshing to see someone in the squad on merit and not just because of who they play for. Been a solid signing so far and hasn't taken long at all to settle in. This is the sort of signing we need to be aiming for in future, someone who can slot straight into the starting 11
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on March 18, 2017, 10:28:39 AM
why can`t some fans just be happy for players selected for there country. cockney`s and scouser`s are moaning that our Jake Livermore has been selected ahead of there favourite`s tough good on you Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on March 18, 2017, 03:56:17 PM
My man of the match today. Very calm on the ball, touch of class, as well as getting stuck in when needed. Showed why he's been called up for England today. Very good signing
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Black Country Pride on March 18, 2017, 04:03:12 PM
Excellent performance today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on March 18, 2017, 09:47:13 PM
Brilliant, very dominant in the middle...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 19, 2017, 10:15:45 AM
A very good signing so far. Very impressive

Didn't realise how good an athlete he was. He's going to love the mountains in the summer
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 22, 2017, 02:28:48 PM
I do believe he is starting this evening
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on March 22, 2017, 03:08:39 PM
I do believe he is starting this evening

Nah, they don't go until the summer, Even tone isn't that much of a draconian boss.  ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on March 22, 2017, 03:29:23 PM
Lots of predicted lineups have Jake in the middle of a 3-4-3
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on March 22, 2017, 03:30:58 PM
Brilliant news if he does start

And I for one will be very happy about that
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 22, 2017, 04:02:49 PM
Out of interest, who was our last England capped outfield player?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on March 22, 2017, 04:10:43 PM
Out of interest, who was our last England capped outfield player?

If selected to play, he would become the club’s first outfield England international since Steve Hunt, who featured against the former Soviet Union in June 1984.

Goalkeepers Ben Foster (3) and Scott Carson (1) are the only Albion players to have represented England since Hunt in 1984

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/03/16/west-broms-jake-livermore-receives-england-call-up/
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BigFrank20 on March 22, 2017, 04:18:03 PM
Out of interest, who was our last England capped outfield player?
Statham?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 22, 2017, 04:31:02 PM
Statham?
Derek played 3 times in 1983.Steve Hunt played in 1984.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Scruffy Stan on March 22, 2017, 05:32:48 PM
I'm shocked at myself - I've followed the Albion slavishly since 1968 and I can't remember Steve Hunt at all, in either an Albion or England context.  :(
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on March 22, 2017, 05:44:41 PM
I'm shocked at myself - I've followed the Albion slavishly since 1968 and I can't remember Steve Hunt at all, in either an Albion or England context.  :(

Don't worry yourself as he wasn't here that long.

Brief write up from the OS.

http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/for-club-country-steve-hunt-2768726.aspx (http://www.wba.co.uk/news/article/for-club-country-steve-hunt-2768726.aspx)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on March 22, 2017, 06:40:36 PM
Official. How proud we should all be. Well done jake. I will now bother too watch the game he starts for england
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on March 22, 2017, 06:48:06 PM
Congratulations Jake on your 1st start for England
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gerry m on March 22, 2017, 06:56:08 PM
Best of luck Jake! Hopefully does well otherwise Armchair fans of the bigger clubs will probably say 'Why was he playing for England'.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wardy65 on March 22, 2017, 06:56:47 PM
Fantastic news, well done Jake. I know it's still early in his Albion career but he's looked a quality signing so far.
As for Steve Hunt .. he was brilliant for us, but it was a poor Baggies side back then.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jimmy on March 22, 2017, 08:01:09 PM
Livermore looking good in opening minutes.

Come on Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 22, 2017, 08:30:21 PM
Sloppy in possession after a promising start...


Hopefully just nerves.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on March 22, 2017, 08:31:38 PM
Sloppy in possession after a promising start...


Hopefully just nerves.

Yup he looked very good early on but unfortunately is the weak link at the mo
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jimmy on March 22, 2017, 08:36:54 PM
Yup he looked very good early on but unfortunately is the weak link at the mo

Very unfair to call him the weak link.

He hasnt lost the ball when in retention mode only a few times when there gambling in attack. Ill take that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: botters on March 22, 2017, 08:43:48 PM
He has played some good balls into the forward players who have been on their heels and too slow to react. Some people on here just have to criticise our player even when they wear an England shirt. Diabolical!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Black Pearl on March 22, 2017, 08:47:48 PM
A couple of good interceptions in defence as well, not perfect, given the ball away a couple of times but brave and always shows for the ball, has done okay.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on March 22, 2017, 08:49:57 PM
lewisant weak link you what >:( he had a good first half
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jimmy on March 22, 2017, 08:51:04 PM
Was highlighted by the pundits at half time as the link in englands best move.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: botters on March 22, 2017, 08:53:53 PM
Was highlighted by the pundits at half time as the link in englands best move.

No we are getting some sense about this topic. Well done Jimmy.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: botters on March 22, 2017, 08:54:51 PM
Now even.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on March 22, 2017, 08:57:39 PM
On the contrary, it's a compliment to the way the team played that he was the weak link. I never said he played bad it just means where he gave it away quite a few times nobody else really did. I was very pleased with his performance. Maybe the weakest link was Bertrand. Even in a strong strong chain there's always a link that's the weakest.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on March 22, 2017, 09:14:16 PM
He's sure'd things up this half
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on March 22, 2017, 09:34:16 PM
Missed the first half but he looked pretty good in the second. Nice passes and interceptions, don't think he lost the ball once.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Black Pearl on March 22, 2017, 09:39:57 PM
Done himself no harm, England have lost cohesion since he went off.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on March 22, 2017, 09:40:21 PM
Well played Jake ,credit to WBA.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: PsalmXXIII on March 22, 2017, 09:42:38 PM
Not sure what the negativity around him was about - looked decent today. Nobody doing much around him so had to go backwards a fair bit. Played well second half and certainly better than some England players.

Guess he's an unattractive, not exciting name on the team sheet and became a target for negativity as a result.

Well done Jake, certainly not done him or us any shame tonight.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on March 22, 2017, 09:49:47 PM
Christ some of you are watching Scotland . Livermore was our man of the match
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: easyrider on March 22, 2017, 09:57:42 PM
looked a lot better than henderson and drinkwater in that position and was my man of the match,solid and linked up very well and always wanted the ball.well done jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on March 22, 2017, 10:13:27 PM
I think an honest review of his game was that he started very well, started giving the ball away a bit towards the end of the first half and had a solid second half. Well done Jake you did the Baggies proud!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kirk on March 22, 2017, 10:17:34 PM
Did nothing spectacular, didn't do much wrong but obviously looked like he did the job that was asked of him. Solid showing to me
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on March 22, 2017, 10:22:21 PM
very good first start
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on March 22, 2017, 10:23:35 PM
Thought he played really well. Kept it simple, made good tackles and did the job asked of him

Thought he looked more solid than Drinkwater or Henderson in that position

Did us proud
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 22, 2017, 10:37:51 PM
Played well in the end, some very poor passes in the middle third of the 1st half that England got away with justified mild criticism imo, but it was overall an industrious and energetic display. Proud of him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on March 23, 2017, 12:33:53 AM
Sounds excellent. Didn't catch the match but very proud to have one of ours in the England team. Also someone who recognised the club and is grounded too:

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/west-bromwich-albion-fc/2017/03/17/jake-livermore-i-owe-my-england-call-up-to-west-brom/

Jake Livermore paid tribute to boss Tony Pulis and his Albion team-mates after being handed an England recall.

The 27-year-old midfielder, who earned his sole senior international cap back in August 2012, was yesterday included in Gareth Southgate’s 26-man squad for upcoming games with Germany and Lithuania.

It comes less than two months after he joined the Baggies from Hull City in a £10million deal. Livermore is now in contention to become the first outfield Albion player to play for England since Steve Hunt in 1984.

He revealed how it was Pulis, who had tipped the former Tottenham man to earn a recall to the national side immediately after signing him, who delivered the good news.

“The manager pulled me in and I wasn’t sure if I had done anything wrong – it was a bit like being back at school!” joked Livermore.

“He gave me the news. I was just delighted. Hopefully I can do the club and him proud.

“Can I put it into words? Not really, no. Obviously it is fantastic for myself and my family and the club.

“Ultimately I do owe a large fraction of it to my manager and the players I’m playing with. They have been fantastic.”

Livermore was watched by Southgate during Albion’s recent games at West Ham and Everton and was named in a squad which contained several other surprise names, including Southampton duo James Ward-Prowse and Nathan Redmond, along with Sunderland striker Jermaine Defoe.

For Livermore, the recall is another step in a career which has been steadily rebuilt since 2015, when he tested positive for cocaine.

Though the Class A substance carries a maximum two-year suspension from football, Livermore escaped a ban after an independent Football Association panel ruled that the tragic death of his newborn son was a mitigating factor.

Southgate said: “Jake’s a different sort of profile to other midfield players we might have picked. From his own journey it’s an incredible story and I’m sure he’s taken a lot of strength from what he’s been through over the last year or so. It’s great to see him now back in the fold.”

Livermore added: “It would be fantastic to have any involvement (in the games). Hopefully I can impress those I need to.

“I’m proud. Not so much for myself but my family who have helped me through some tough times and the club as well. Hopefully I can do them all proud.

“I would like to get some minutes and hopefully get into the next squad.”

Livermore earned his previous cap after coming on as substitute during a 2-1 friendly victory against Italy at Wembley.

He continued: “The first cap was a long time ago. When you are there in the bubble you are very much in the moment. Stepping out makes you realise what an achievement it was and where I want to get back to.”
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LoxleyBaggie on March 23, 2017, 07:22:17 AM
He comes across as someone determined not to be permanently marked by a low point in his life.  His performance last night was enough to keep him in the frame for future selection.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Black Pearl on March 23, 2017, 09:02:37 AM
Made 4 tackles and 3 interceptions, the highest of any England player, the sort of performance fans miss and managers appreciate.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on March 23, 2017, 09:12:04 AM
I thought he looked comfortable on the ball and had a good understanding with the other team members. This can only improve with more game time with them. Pleased for Jake and proud that he is a baggie!

Looking forward to seeing James and Hal playing on Friday now......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 23, 2017, 09:53:13 AM
Other than his passing occasionally, which I have noticed to be the same for us at times, a few wayward passes in quick succession, he acquitted himself very well I felt.

Not sure we can play both him and Dier in there together, we only need one 'spoiler' in the midfield for me, better to get someone with a better range of passing in there alongisde one or the other to turn defence into attack a bit better.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on March 23, 2017, 10:56:50 AM
Other than his passing occasionally, which I have noticed to be the same for us at times, a few wayward passes in quick succession, he acquitted himself very well I felt.

Not sure we can play both him and Dier in there together, we only need one 'spoiler' in the midfield for me, better to get someone with a better range of passing in there alongisde one or the other to turn defence into attack a bit better.
I thought he looked far more composed than Dier (who looks overweight). We need someone in there who just does their job, not trying to be over clever or trying too hard. Thought he had a very good game.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on March 23, 2017, 11:00:49 AM
Those nasty Geordies are saying Livermore was the weak link and that Shelvey would have lit up Germany I wish some fans would get real a good player yes in a team playing Chumpionship football week in week out when he`s not suspended he`s an  Unreliable nasty piece of work.     Well played last night Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on March 23, 2017, 11:03:51 AM
Who cares what the Geordies think.....

Livermore was excellent whether they agree or not
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 23, 2017, 11:06:32 AM
I thought he looked far more composed than Dier (who looks overweight). We need someone in there who just does their job, not trying to be over clever or trying too hard. Thought he had a very good game.

Agreed, but I see Dier as a centre half as opposed to a midfielder, which is where he has played for Spurs all season.

I would hope that Southgate would see it the same way in due course and perhaps pair Livermore with Henderson when fit in there, as I feel Jake offers far more than the likes of Wilshere and Drinkwater.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggieboyfred on March 23, 2017, 11:11:11 AM
It was great to have an albion outfield player in an England side again after so many years , I thought he had a competent game without being spectacular, against what was a very average german side , but you could say that about every England player on the night, unlikely to figure sunday but at least Southgate kept him on the pitch for 80 minutes, and lets face it we should have got at least a draw, but both Lallana and Ali missed good chances, so if you must slate anybody , slate them and just be pleased with the fact that we had an albion player out there
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: saml30 on March 23, 2017, 11:41:41 AM
Those nasty Geordies are saying Livermore was the weak link and that Shelvey would have lit up Germany I wish some fans would get real a good player yes in a team playing Chumpionship football week in week out when he`s not suspended he`s an  Unreliable nasty piece of work.     Well played last night Jake

It's slightly different being up against Kroos than it is our Gards in the championship
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jimmy on March 23, 2017, 12:18:22 PM
Would be disappointed if he didnt get some game time against Lithuania because I thought he looked composed and did anchor England quite well in the middle without boring everyone to tears ala Jordan Henderson.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on March 23, 2017, 12:20:33 PM
It's slightly different being up against Kroos than it is our Gards in the championship

Bit off-topic but the problem with Shelvey has always been his consistency and he seems too emotional at times. Too often he looks awful, then has the odd good game which isn't good enough to be an England player. Strangely enough a lot of Everton fans were saying how Barkley or Davies should have played before Livermore...they're both in completely different positions - England need a proper holding midfielder and right now Livermore is definitely one of them.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on March 23, 2017, 01:47:00 PM
He did enough good things to keep his place, a solid performance if not a eye catching one. Made some good tackles & interceptions plus made himself available for others to use. :D   
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on March 23, 2017, 02:50:40 PM
Thought he made a good solid performance, some very good tackles, one on the edge of their box in the first half springs to mind.

Being selfish I hope he doesn't play against Lithuania so that there is no chance of injury!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba13 on March 23, 2017, 02:58:09 PM
I hope he does Hull for selfish reason`s I will be there ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: newbaggie on March 23, 2017, 05:07:06 PM
I thought he played well, 3 or 4 poor passes but I thought his overall play was good.I was surprised at England pinging the ball about.Decent performance for me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on March 25, 2017, 10:23:52 PM
I like the way he plays and how humble he seems after his problems in the past.
A fresh start with us and made a difference.
Cost us 10million.
Now got into England team/squad.
What's his value now then ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on May 14, 2017, 08:19:22 AM
He's been getting some lukewarm comments on here.

I think he'll prove a good signing. He breaks forward from deep positions well which is something we've lacked. He got up to support Rondon and then create the chance for Chadli the other night. Also noticed he was the furthest forward when Rondon had his chance just before.

He could have a couple of assists by now with Chadli on Friday and HRK's chance against Liverpool.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on May 14, 2017, 11:50:13 AM
He's been getting some lukewarm comments on here.

I think he'll prove a good signing. He breaks forward from deep positions well which is something we've lacked. He got up to support Rondon and then create the chance for Chadli the other night. Also noticed he was the furthest forward when Rondon had his chance just before.

He could have a couple of assists by now with Chadli on Friday and HRK's chance against Liverpool.

I think he has been poor thus far, but I am hoping that is down to the was we play under TP not getting the best out of him as opposed to it being the lad himself.

The Chadli chance came from a terrible touch from Livermore which prevented him from having a run on goal himself. He also missed an utter sitter in one of the home games a couple of months back in the last minute, but I do like the fact he had the engine to get into the positions so late in the game.

Under a different manager you may see a bit more from him than just his industry. Hopefully next season he can show more of what he is capable of on the ball.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on May 14, 2017, 12:25:49 PM
Unfortunately all our central midfielders seem to turn into Craig Gardner eventually even when they don't start off being Craig Gardner.  Livermore's pass completion rate has dipped by 10 points since his move from Hull. That is a team that is currently engaged in a desperate rear guard action against relegation you would have thought that playing for a team in the top half of the league would give him a platform to excel.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on May 14, 2017, 04:03:37 PM
Unfortunately all our central midfielders seem to turn into Craig Gardner eventually even when they don't start off being Craig Gardner.  Livermore's pass completion rate has dipped by 10 points since his move from Hull. That is a team that is currently engaged in a desperate rear guard action against relegation you would have thought that playing for a team in the top half of the league would give him a platform to excel.
Pass completion stats seem to get quoted a lot these days and I think there's a lot of questions surrounding them. An example - after about half a season when Brendan Rogers was Swansea boss and they were playing in Barca ticky-tacky style Leon Brittain had the best pass completion stats in Europe. Was he the best passer in Europe ? No, he was hardly ever passing further than 5 yards.
Even within a team players will be expected to do different things when on the ball. Livermore has been a bit more expansive with his passing than most of our midfielders...being more expansive means more risk per pass. The stats on this are of questionable value in my book.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on May 14, 2017, 04:14:12 PM
I think he has been poor thus far, but I am hoping that is down to the was we play under TP not getting the best out of him as opposed to it being the lad himself.

The Chadli chance came from a terrible touch from Livermore which prevented him from having a run on goal himself. He also missed an utter sitter in one of the home games a couple of months back in the last minute, but I do like the fact he had the engine to get into the positions so late in the game.

Under a different manager you may see a bit more from him than just his industry. Hopefully next season he can show more of what he is capable of on the ball.
Think you're focusing on the negatives a touch here. It's questionable whether Livermore's touch was a miss-control, he may have realised he'd have more support from checking back. Even if it was a miss-control, surely it doesn't mean whatever happens from that is worthless ?
No doubt some of the best finishes and passes have come from an initial poor touch / slice of luck. I agree though that he will benefit from better movement in front of him. Next season...Phillips back + an addition or two......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on May 14, 2017, 04:31:16 PM
Pass completion stats seem to get quoted a lot these days and I think there's a lot of questions surrounding them. An example - after about half a season when Brendan Rogers was Swansea boss and they were playing in Barca ticky-tacky style Leon Brittain had the best pass completion stats in Europe. Was he the best passer in Europe ? No, he was hardly ever passing further than 5 yards.
Even within a team players will be expected to do different things when on the ball. Livermore has been a bit more expansive with his passing than most of our midfielders...being more expansive means more risk per pass. The stats on this are of questionable value in my book.

With better passing, you give the ball to the opposition less. Something we've done far too much over the past two seasons.

Agree that Livermore is trying the riskier pass more often than others, which is also required to break teams down sometimes. However if you're constantly not finding a team mate because of the type of pass that you're making it can also be detrimental to the team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on May 14, 2017, 05:26:09 PM
Did anyone actually think Livermore would improve us much? don't get me wrong he's not a poor player just not a player who  influences a game or scores plenty or creates a lot for others, in fact I don't think we would be any worse off if we hadn't bought him but had given a few youngsters more match time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on May 14, 2017, 06:01:43 PM
Did anyone actually think Livermore would improve us much? don't get me wrong he's not a poor player just not a player who  influences a game or scores plenty or creates a lot for others, in fact I don't think we would be any worse off if we hadn't bought him but had given a few youngsters more match time.
Would like to see him and Field together. Field looks a real prospect and a far better p!ayer than Fletcher at thei respective stages of their careers.
Field shouldn't have got pu!led against st Chelsea, should have been Fletcher.
Livermore is just a bit better at everything, passing, tackling, running without being remarkable.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on May 14, 2017, 06:29:49 PM
Would like to see him and Field together. Field looks a real prospect and a far better p!ayer than Fletcher at thei respective stages of their careers.
Field shouldn't have got pu!led against st Chelsea, should have been Fletcher.
Livermore is just a bit better at everything, passing, tackling, running without being remarkable.
Fair point - are people just expecting too much ? As you say he's a bit better at most things and is a better age and should still be around when Fletcher, Yacob, Morrison and Brunt have moved on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on May 14, 2017, 07:01:43 PM
Would like to see him and Field together. Field looks a real prospect and a far better p!ayer than Fletcher at thei respective stages of their careers.
Field shouldn't have got pu!led against st Chelsea, should have been Fletcher.
Livermore is just a bit better at everything, passing, tackling, running without being remarkable.

Not sure that's entirely true. Fletcher was playing Champions League football at 19, and was a first team regular the next season for Man Utd, playing in and winning the FA Cup final. Don't get me wrong I think Field is a talent, but Fletcher gets a bit too much unfair stick in my opinion. If Field can begin to challenge the starting 11 next season that would be great, however still think Fletcher has a part to play.

Against Chelsea Livermore had the best passing rate out of him (22 out of 26 - 84%), Fletcher (17 out of 25 - 68%) and Field (12 out of 15 - 80%). Fletcher made the most tackles and clearances. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: telford baggie on May 14, 2017, 07:59:36 PM
Did anyone actually think Livermore would improve us much? don't get me wrong he's not a poor player just not a player who  influences a game or scores plenty or creates a lot for others, in fact I don't think we would be any worse off if we hadn't bought him but had given a few youngsters more match time.
for 10m i really cant see what difference he offers to the team may aswell have kept yacob in team and spent it elsewhere but as we know we like defensive players he is defiently not a box to box player doesnt offer anything going forward
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on May 14, 2017, 08:04:07 PM
Pass completion stats cover all pass ranges and are reasonable measure of how effective a team or a player  are at passing the ball to another player on the team. Yes it is certainly easier to complete a 5 yard pass and I am pretty damn sure that a lot of the 20% that even the better passers misplace are longer than 5 yards but I'm also sure that when we misplace over 30% of passes the 5 yard passes are going astray.

The fact that a player who is central to our ball retention has dropped 10 points on this stat is impossible to ignore and speaks volumes about the way we play football.

If you are happy pottering around on 40 points don't sweat it just don't bother to pass through the midfield gift the ball back to the opposition as often as you like with no movement no sustained possession in the opponents final third even against teams that are not one of the top 6.

 Obviously the solution to this is have faster players chasing those balls out of defence, yes works for me.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DivinePast on May 14, 2017, 08:53:44 PM
I think he's fine. 10M or so doesn't buy as much we we think now a days. He's a fine player for this team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on May 14, 2017, 08:58:24 PM
Pass completion stats cover all pass ranges and are reasonable measure of how effective a team or a player  are at passing the ball to another player on the team. Yes it is certainly easier to complete a 5 yard pass and I am pretty damn sure that a lot of the 20% that even the better passers misplace are longer than 5 yards but I'm also sure that when we misplace over 30% of passes the 5 yard passes are going astray.

The fact that a player who is central to our ball retention has dropped 10 points on this stat is impossible to ignore and speaks volumes about the way we play football.

If you are happy pottering around on 40 points don't sweat it just don't bother to pass through the midfield gift the ball back to the opposition as often as you like with no movement no sustained possession in the opponents final third even against teams that are not one of the top 6.

 Obviously the solution to this is have faster players chasing those balls out of defence, yes works for me.
I'm with you that movement is our big problem and has been for God knows how long.
 Why has Livermore dropped 10 points? I don't know. Maybe Hull said 'you play it simple and give it to Huddleston or Snodgrass', whereas TP has said 'I want you to get your head up and spread play a bit'. We don't know.
Obviously I'm not big on passing stats but if we want to focus on it then on here it was said that Yacob had 70% in recent games which is pretty worrying  given the type of restricted role he plays.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on May 14, 2017, 09:20:58 PM
I'm with you that movement is our big problem and has been for God knows how long.
 Why has Livermore dropped 10 points? I don't know. Maybe Hull said 'you play it simple and give it to Huddleston or Snodgrass', whereas TP has said 'I want you to get your head up and spread play a bit'. We don't know.
Obviously I'm not big on passing stats but if we want to focus on it then on here it was said that Yacob had 70% in recent games which is pretty worrying  given the type of restricted role he plays.
In all fairness Adder passing has never been Yacobs strength, his role is to break up play which he does well which is a good job because he's got nothing else in his locker. we needed a box to box midfielder, we still need one because Livermore isn't the answer. he's more mobile than Fletcher and a better passer than Yacob so maybe if we actually get a decent box to box midfielder there's a more suitable position for him. the role he played for England suited him I thought.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on May 14, 2017, 10:12:41 PM
In all fairness Adder passing has never been Yacobs strength, his role is to break up play which he does well which is a good job because he's got nothing else in his locker. we needed a box to box midfielder, we still need one because Livermore isn't the answer. he's more mobile than Fletcher and a better passer than Yacob so maybe if we actually get a decent box to box midfielder there's a more suitable position for him. the role he played for England suited him I thought.
Agreed passing isn't Yacob's strength BUT at this level, if you just play simple passes, your stats should be way above that if stats mean anything....regardless of what your main strength/role is meant to be.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: B714LF on May 15, 2017, 12:07:00 AM
He's an ok player that we didn't need. Just don't get this signing,
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on May 15, 2017, 08:55:36 AM
Not sure that's entirely true. Fletcher was playing Champions League football at 19, and was a first team regular the next season for Man Utd, playing in and winning the FA Cup final. Don't get me wrong I think Field is a talent, but Fletcher gets a bit too much unfair stick in my opinion. If Field can begin to challenge the starting 11 next season that would be great, however still think Fletcher has a part to play.

Against Chelsea Livermore had the best passing rate out of him (22 out of 26 - 84%), Fletcher (17 out of 25 - 68%) and Field (12 out of 15 - 80%). Fletcher made the most tackles and clearances.
Sorry, I'd had a few Stellas when I posted that! I meant Field is better now than an ageing Fletcher, not at the same age.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Signor_Maresca on May 15, 2017, 11:26:10 AM
I really don't see it with Livermore, he had a good debut and I was impressed with his performance at West Ham but since then I think he has been very indifferent.  Does nothing particularly well; he doesn't read the game and make timely interceptions and tackles like Yacob and he doesn't seem to have the leadership and nous of Fletcher.  Still early days and I'll wait until he has learnt his role within our side and had a pre season behind him but at the moment unfortunately I don't think he is adding much to the team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie53 on May 15, 2017, 01:03:42 PM
I really don't see it with Livermore, he had a good debut and I was impressed with his performance at West Ham but since then I think he has been very indifferent.  Does nothing particularly well; he doesn't read the game and make timely interceptions and tackles like Yacob and he doesn't seem to have the leadership and nous of Fletcher.  Still early days and I'll wait until he has learnt his role within our side and had a pre season behind him but at the moment unfortunately I don't think he is adding much to the team.

Agree with this. He has replaced Yacob in the team, but on Friday when Yacob came on he hit Hazard with a few tackles and after a while Hazard was withdrawn
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 15, 2017, 01:15:00 PM
Big upgrade on Gardner but it has been a mistake sacrificing Yacob to accommodate him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on May 15, 2017, 07:25:53 PM
I don't think Yacob's introduction had anything to do with Hazard going off.
If Livermore had played as badly as Yacob did in the Liverpool and Leicester games he'd have been crucified on here. Yacob seems to have a bit of cult hero about him and escapes any criticism.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bradleysrocket on May 15, 2017, 07:37:33 PM
If we are going to insist on playing so many midfielders whose primary function is defending, Yacob has to be one of them. Livermore is a good player though and long term will prove his worth.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: B_H_Baggie on May 15, 2017, 07:50:51 PM
Big upgrade on Gardner but it has been a mistake sacrificing Yacob to accommodate him.

That's the exact problem for me, if he'd replaced Fletcher instead I think most would have been a little more impressed by him. Not that I think he's been too bad anyway mind you.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on May 17, 2017, 03:35:10 AM
Second time hull have mugged us 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on May 17, 2017, 06:27:43 AM
Another play that you would consider as being 'OK'.
He's suffers, like our other central midfielders. from lack of pace.
We need to be doing better than signing just 'OK' players
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on May 17, 2017, 06:40:27 AM
It was quite a big investment for someone who is no better than what we already had.

He's another one who just ambles about in the middle of the pitch providing nothing more than a bit of protection for the back four.

Same as our other midfielders really...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on May 17, 2017, 09:08:18 AM
It's the way we set up. We play so deep that any central midfielder will struggle. There's just no space or time and when there is there are no options. People talk about his pass completion going down but that's always going to happen. Until the system changes, all central midfielders will struggle.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: colinmax on May 17, 2017, 09:35:53 AM
Livermore is a decent footballer but does he add anything to our team?
When you have a restricted budget you have to spend it wisely.In the January window we clearly needed a sriker but if no one good enough and affordable was available why didn't we go for a midfielder with pace,the ability to run with the ball and a player carrying a goal threat.Livermore offers none of these.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AshD on May 17, 2017, 09:56:01 AM
When he signed, he actually ventured into the opposition half, and really got around the pitch. This seems to have disappeared - and this would suggest he is playing to instructions (rather than playing naturally when he first signed).

He looks lost at the moment!

 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on May 17, 2017, 10:33:14 AM
TP is slowly turning him into a member of "the Blackpool Donkey Brigade"  :'(
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Signor_Maresca on May 17, 2017, 01:44:29 PM
Think Livermore and Yacob is a pairing that needs testing out.  As people have said in his first few games he looked best when he had a bit of freedom and roamed forward at will but that has all stopped now, he game seems more restrictive and he is having no affect on games.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on May 17, 2017, 09:09:19 PM
Think Livermore and Yacob is a pairing that needs testing out.  As people have said in his first few games he looked best when he had a bit of freedom and roamed forward at will but that has all stopped now, he game seems more restrictive and he is having no affect on games.

Here's hoping that's the be central 2 next season. But unless fletcher goes or the dinosaur picking him goes I can't see it sadly
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on May 17, 2017, 09:16:28 PM
Think Livermore and Yacob is a pairing that needs testing out.  As people have said in his first few games he looked best when he had a bit of freedom and roamed forward at will but that has all stopped now, he game seems more restrictive and he is having no affect on games.
He's been pulised
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: don1thedon on May 25, 2017, 12:17:10 PM
Congrats Jake, back in the England squad for June's matches against Scotland and France.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: B_H_Baggie on May 25, 2017, 12:18:03 PM
He's done very well to get back in the England squad going on recent poor form.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on May 25, 2017, 12:22:24 PM
Congratulations to him, may take him a while to adapt to a manager asking him to retain the ball again though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: don1thedon on May 25, 2017, 12:24:28 PM
He's done very well to get back in the England squad going on recent poor form.
yes, can't disagree with that, I guess Southgate saw enough last time out to give him another shot.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on May 26, 2017, 01:00:26 AM
Scrapping the barrel with Jake's inclusion been woeful for us of late
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on May 26, 2017, 01:38:45 AM
I think international managers have to look beyond current form and give players that have worked for them a little bit of latitude on that basis Livermore's inclusion is logical as is Defoe's who has been missing for Sunderland for the final few months of the campaign.

Southgate is trying to build a team that works and shouldn't as is often the case include everyone who shows a bit of decent form or equally drop every player who has been below par for their club, that results in too much chopping and changing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on May 26, 2017, 09:08:39 AM
Southgate not been scouting games then i see, always good to have any baggie representing our nation
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on May 26, 2017, 09:18:03 AM
He might have been under par in a couple of games - woeful is a bit strong. People at other clubs have bad games as well.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on May 26, 2017, 09:20:39 AM
Scrapping the barrel with Jake's inclusion been woeful for us of late

A bit harsh, there have been a few woeful performances on the pitch over the last few games.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Foster#1 on August 24, 2017, 03:48:51 PM
In the England set up again and has been a starter for us since he's signed.

Solid player. Money well spent looking at the deal.

Many wrote him off before he signed
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 24, 2017, 06:09:40 PM
Plays better for England than he does for us. That said Henderson is back from injury so Jake will be back on the bench.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MICKYMEL on August 28, 2017, 12:12:46 AM
Captain???

Needs to be dropped never mind be made captain. Cost us today couple of chances to play in striker with simple ball.
He is slow, clumsy and barry has shown him up. Needs replacing I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on August 28, 2017, 08:26:40 AM
Over-reaction in my book.

Barry was sitting deeper and concentrating on that which he did very well. Livermore was getting about the pitch more as is his role in the team. Yes he missed one glaring opportunity to play in Rondon but at least he was there as a link.
We'll have to see how the midfield progresses especially if we sign someone like Souza this week.

I can't see us playing Barry and Yacob together and Barry will get the nod for his better passing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on August 28, 2017, 08:48:40 AM
In the England set up again and has been a starter for us since he's signed.

Solid player. Money well spent looking at the deal.

Many wrote him off before he signed

I think it shows the lack of quality English players if Livermore is in the side.
Not dissing the bloke but there's no way he is an international footballer
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: NathWBA on August 28, 2017, 10:53:02 AM
Was discussing Livermore st the game yesterday and for he ended last season and has started this season really poor, his passing is sloppy, his vision for a pass is poor, and he just seems really off the pace. Yesterday there was at least 2 times I can recall where he could have played the striker in but didn't see the pass quick enough.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionBest on August 28, 2017, 11:58:41 AM
Got to admit that I've been very disappointed in Jake since his bright start with us.

Looks very slow to get forward and his pass is way off - just compare him to Barry's excellent use of the ball.

The midfield is a real worry going forward especially when we bring Yacob on at home to have probably the slowest midfield three in the division - no wonder we get pegged back !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on August 28, 2017, 12:47:39 PM
I'm not saying Livermore's on top of his game but....

He's not slow and is better at getting forward in support than any other midfielder we have (not saying much).

As for passing, we are generally looking to get the ball forward quickly. Those who sit deeper like Yacob are less expansive in passing range. Being safe with passes and keeping possession is not what we are about as a team. Livermore looks to hit longer passes even if they are 50-50 balls, so more go astray.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Sted1990 on September 11, 2017, 09:48:11 PM
What does he offer? Seriously
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 12, 2017, 10:51:03 AM
I saw our revised squad photo after the transfer window yesterday and he and Evans sat either side of TP.

Assume he is our vice captain now? No chance he gets dropped despite bringing nothing to the table.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: graka on September 12, 2017, 11:43:16 PM
I saw our revised squad photo after the transfer window yesterday and he and Evans sat either side of TP.

Assume he is our vice captain now? No chance he gets dropped despite bringing nothing to the table.

I noticed that aswel. It seems the 3 defensive midfield is here to stay.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on September 13, 2017, 06:33:49 AM
I saw our revised squad photo after the transfer window yesterday and he and Evans sat either side of TP.

Assume he is our vice captain now? No chance he gets dropped despite bringing nothing to the table.

Its called Fletcher Syndrome
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Beefy on September 16, 2017, 08:51:41 PM
Really !!!!!!!!  :o

More
#WBA Tony Pulis tells @bbcwm that Jake Livermore is "mentally drained" so allowed a couple of days off. #Baggies @WBA.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on September 16, 2017, 08:54:40 PM
Really !!!!!!!!  :o

More
#WBA Tony Pulis tells @bbcwm that Jake Livermore is "mentally drained" so allowed a couple of days off. #Baggies @WBA.

Sounds fine to me, get well soon Jake. Being well mentally is as important as being well physically.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Beefy on September 16, 2017, 08:58:38 PM
Mentally Drained ?
Went off with England ok though ?
Didn't even play in the 2nd game ...
I feel sorry for these people earning vast amounts of money and have to kick a bag of wind about for 90 mins and in September become mentally drained FFS !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: barnestormer on September 16, 2017, 09:03:38 PM
Really !!!!!!!!  :o

More
#WBA Tony Pulis tells @bbcwm that Jake Livermore is "mentally drained" so allowed a couple of days off. #Baggies @WBA.
Absolutely laughable,get rid if its the truth
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Scruffy Stan on September 16, 2017, 09:24:56 PM
We don't know what's going on with hi, Think Clarke Carlisle. It's not laughable if it's on those lines.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 16, 2017, 09:27:25 PM
Berahino wasn't fit....Look what he did.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: adamw1109 on September 16, 2017, 09:32:38 PM
Mentally Drained ?
Went off with England ok though ?
Didn't even play in the 2nd game ...
I feel sorry for these people earning vast amounts of money and have to kick a bag of wind about for 90 mins and in September become mentally drained FFS !

It's not the football thats draining him, its playing for pulis!

(Or the fact that pulis is full of sh*te and i wouldn't believe a word that comes out his mouth).

*I await the Pulis hater comments*  ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on September 16, 2017, 09:34:36 PM
How about trusting the manager and club staff to know when a couple of days off will benefit a player ? There's more to management than work 'aaard'.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on September 16, 2017, 10:03:14 PM
Wow some of the replies here are a disgrace! We have no idea what's wrong with Jake, he's one of ours though so let's hope he's ok.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on September 16, 2017, 10:04:18 PM
We don't know what's going on with hi, Think Clarke Carlisle. It's not laughable if it's on those lines.

This. Too many old fashioned views here.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smudger 2007 on September 16, 2017, 10:59:37 PM
Only short time ago he lost his new born baby so he may still be mentally effected I know I would be. He was sat in box today at the back of east stand and seemed ok. Had a photo with my lad. And few others. Hope he is ok. He has been below Apr for a while now. So he could be mentally still effected. Been better for england than for us. And he hasn't been that good for england. Hope he comes back fresher and stronger
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on September 16, 2017, 11:13:07 PM
Here's to a speedy recovery Jake & well done to TP & the club for doing the right thing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on September 16, 2017, 11:47:04 PM
I don't mind Livermore having a few days off if he is mentally drained, because to me he has proven that he is professional and a sensible bloke, I think it's different to when Berahino and Sessegnon had breaks in the past and I don't begrudge him for it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on September 17, 2017, 09:12:45 AM
If the player had a tight hamstring then we wouldn't be discussing this at all and I wish Pulis hadn't used the phrase "mentally drained" as it opens up a whole can of worms which leaves the player exposed to unwarranted speculation about his mental health and the ignorant sniping from those view of mental health issues consists of "man up" and "how can you be depressed you are wealthy"

Whatever the problem and lets hope its relatively minor and that he is fit to rejoin the squad shortly. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on September 17, 2017, 09:38:36 AM
We don't know what's going on with hi, Think Clarke Carlisle. It's not laughable if it's on those lines.

Spot on - I hope he is OK.

It would be foolish to make any commentary on this matter until the facts are known......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 17, 2017, 10:07:08 AM
Agree, far too many people that think because people earn money they suddenly stop becoming human, kick neymar in the nuts he will still scream .

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jordie1471 on September 17, 2017, 10:19:30 AM
Mental health is as important as physical health and a hell of a lot more important than a game

Hopefully it isn't too serious and he gets well soon
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 17, 2017, 10:24:38 AM
Hoping it is just fatigue than something more deep rooted. Not sure TP has handled it the best by describing it in such a manner with the world having evolved massively concerning the issue of mental health over the years
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on September 17, 2017, 08:39:21 PM
The lad will know he has been below par and if he feels physically ok and the staff know he's physically fit, he will be looking at reasons to justify his performances, hence need a break to  reset, let's hope it's that simple
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on September 18, 2017, 02:38:14 AM
The lad will know he has been below par and if he feels physically ok and the staff know he's physically fit, he will be looking at reasons to justify his performances, hence need a break to  reset, let's hope it's that simple

Think this is the reason he was dropped if I'm honest. No problem with it if he comes back stronger and ready to prove a point.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on September 18, 2017, 12:26:11 PM
Purely about physical health according to the man himself.

http://www.football365.com/news/livermore-moves-to-clarify-reports-over-west-brom-rest
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Joust on September 18, 2017, 12:33:59 PM
Regardless of why he was absent, I don't believe we missed him personally. If Chadli comes in next week and impresses i'd be more than happy to leave Livermore out going forward and have the creativity in there.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on September 18, 2017, 09:09:19 PM
This has been badly handled by the club. Livermore has to put a statement out himself how about protecting the player  ::)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on September 18, 2017, 09:31:11 PM
Regardless of why he was absent, I don't believe we missed him personally. If Chadli comes in next week and impresses i'd be more than happy to leave Livermore out going forward and have the creativity in there.

Chadli's not due back until September 25th, and there's a slight doubt for that too reportedly.

http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php#c22

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on September 18, 2017, 11:32:40 PM
Obviously I wish him all the best and speedy recovery, but it actually has one benefit, that it takes away the temptation for Pulis to play 3 holding midfielders. 2 are more than enough and you can't really drop Barry or Krychowiak.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: barnestormer on September 18, 2017, 11:46:23 PM
This has been badly handled by the club. Livermore has to put a statement out himself how about protecting the player  ::)
agreed,pulis said mentally and Livermore says physically,whichever it was the club should have said a niggling injury,that said its a poor reflection on the player so early in the season for a bit of a burn out
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Uncle Peter on September 19, 2017, 09:18:38 AM
Those posting idiotic remarks should be ashamed, in no way should anyone's mental health be jeopardised for anyone or anything's sake. Mental health is the most precious thing we will ever hold, without it we're nothing but shells.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kirk on September 19, 2017, 12:23:55 PM
Been handled very poorly by the club, straight away I thought is this another Saido situation and his past record. A simple he's been dropped for poor form would have been sufficient.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on September 19, 2017, 12:26:26 PM
Been handled very poorly by the club, straight away I thought is this another Saido situation and his past record. A simple he's been dropped for poor form would have been sufficient.

but wouldn't have been true (he's being allowed to rest not been dropped) and may have an impact on his chances of making the England squad for the forthcoming qualifiers in October.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on September 19, 2017, 01:37:51 PM
Personally think it's been handled well by the club both from Livermore and Pulis's perspectives.

One admitted there was an issue, another acknowledged the issue and they have both moved forward together.

Honesty meets good man management, something which TP is 'occasionally' accused of lacking.

Pity some of our support base were so quick to jump to cliched conclusions.

Still, onward and COYB  8) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: dan7heman on September 19, 2017, 10:40:28 PM
Simple... England international dropped trying to save face.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WoysWunderful on September 19, 2017, 10:49:34 PM
Absolutely laughable,get rid if its the truth

disgraceful comment.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on September 19, 2017, 11:22:10 PM
I can only think many of the people commenting here have perfect lives or seem to think that being wealthy means you somehow lose your feelings.

Him being rich doesn't stop him being a person.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: B_H_Baggie on September 20, 2017, 08:24:38 AM
For Jake to feel the need to make a short statement about it on social media shows how badly its been handled by the club in my opinion. I imagine this kind of thing happens a lot at all levels of the professional game where players get drained either physically or mentally if not both and are allowed a few days off to rest and recharge the batteries but it will be dressed up as a knock so no questions get asked. That is how I believe this situation should have been dealt with personally, would definitely have saved some shameful comments from some people.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Astle1968 on September 20, 2017, 10:08:15 AM
Hopefully it's a very minor issue that's been blown slightly out of proportion, but surely the club just needed to say he had a slight hammy or picked up a knock in training and would be out for 7-10 days.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 20, 2017, 11:25:31 AM
It was just painfully old fashioned from TP to say mentally drained when the world of mental health is a completely different landscape now to what it would have been when he was a younger man. If he'd just said he was physically tired from too many games no eyelids would have been batted, but saying the word mentally automatically attaches a stigma to it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on September 20, 2017, 12:39:26 PM
Physical fatigue impacts on mental fatigue, mental fatigue impacts on physical fatigue.

People reading everything into not a great deal regarding which label should be attached to the type of fatigue Jake Livermore is experiencing is leaving me a little drained.

I think I must be coming down with forum fatigue  :-X .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on September 26, 2017, 12:55:07 PM
Sorry but this guy is just not up to it.  Yes it was a penalty but he pretty much missed an open goal.  His general play is poor - championship standard.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Joust on September 26, 2017, 01:03:35 PM
Sorry but this guy is just not up to it.  Yes it was a penalty but he pretty much missed an open goal.  His general play is poor - championship standard.

Agreed. Id rather Field be given a go if you're willing to play Livermore
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ashdoy on September 26, 2017, 01:05:22 PM
Sorry but this guy is just not up to it.  Yes it was a penalty but he pretty much missed an open goal.  His general play is poor - championship standard.

Totally agreed. I havent rated him since day 1 - very poor and cant actually think of many things he is good at other than having a half decent engine.

Field better for a DM option, Chadli better for AM option.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Foster#1 on September 26, 2017, 01:37:28 PM
The same field who was meant to go out on loan ?

Gotta stop picking certain players to have a go at , it's a team game. Not individuals
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 26, 2017, 02:49:49 PM
The same field who was meant to go out on loan ?

Gotta stop picking certain players to have a go at , it's a team game. Not individuals

The Field loan thinking being more for his own development as opposed to anything else, but don't let that stop you.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: RedHead_Baggie on September 26, 2017, 05:20:10 PM
The same field who was meant to go out on loan ?

Gotta stop picking certain players to have a go at , it's a team game. Not individuals

But what happens when the same players put in sub standard performances every time they play?  Other than a bit of huff and puff he's done nothing since signing for us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on September 26, 2017, 05:31:35 PM
But what happens when the same players put in sub standard performances every time they play?  Other than a bit of huff and puff he's done nothing since signing for us.

That's harsh. He played very well when he first arrived and rightly deserved his England call up.

Little bit of revisionism going on here
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: vrabbit on September 26, 2017, 05:41:50 PM
has not had a single good performance this season and is our 4th best DM at the moment, should see minutes off the bench until he shows better form
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Astle1968 on September 26, 2017, 06:13:44 PM
He's not a terrible player and could do an average job for an average PL side over the course of a season. Never going to do anything that interesting or excite fans but offers something as the 9th or 10th name on the teamsheet.

However it doesn't help anyone when in situations like this the player still seems to play pretty much every minute of every game despite clearly being well out of form for at least 4 or 5 months now. Not direct replacements but with a little tweaking you could play Brunt, Morrison, Yacob, Chadli and Field ahead of him at the moment and Yacob and Field would offer more as a straight swap.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 26, 2017, 09:10:20 PM
Would be extremely disappointed in the club if we went to £15m for him. Would smack of desperation.

No revisionism going on here, Mark. Was against signing him from the outset as he has always been a basic footballer when we needed a creative player.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on September 26, 2017, 09:19:20 PM
Krychowiak should give us the nearest thing to a quality box to box CM we've had for ages. It has to be him and Barry as 2 CMs (DMs if you want to call it that). No way can Yacob play as the more advanced of a 3 in midfield. Morrison....can he play at the required pace for 70 minutes these days ? Chadli...has to be fit and firing.......it's not ideal as he's not a natural there but Livermore is currently the best bet as the more advanced player.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: maximus on September 26, 2017, 10:21:23 PM
Yeah Livermore has had a bad start too the season and doesn't deserve to start, Problem for me is i don't rate Morrison much better, And we need somone in the box to box category as i would start with Barry and Greg all day long. Maybe Chadli can claim that spot or Brunt as he always has an eye for a pass, Either way we need some creative play as we don't look like scoring at all, Even from set plays.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on September 27, 2017, 06:42:39 PM
Also, playing a team of Arsenal's quality who setup with 3 genuine midfielders Ramsey (never stops moving), Xhaka and Elneny, we can't afford to be remotely lightweight against them. Overall I think our midfield did well until tired legs came into it second half.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on September 27, 2017, 07:40:44 PM
Also, playing a team of Arsenal's quality who setup with 3 genuine midfielders Ramsey (never stops moving), Xhaka and Elneny, we can't afford to be remotely lightweight against them. Overall I think our midfield did well until tired legs came into it second half.
I thought that they had stamina training in Austria.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on September 27, 2017, 10:23:35 PM
I thought that they had stamina training in Austria.
That's more for long term injury reduction. It doesn't matter what the sport, if you are playing someone a bit better it's hard work and players get tired.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mikkyk on September 28, 2017, 12:21:20 AM
That's harsh. He played very well when he first arrived and rightly deserved his England call up.

Little bit of revisionism going on here

I would absolutely disagree with the he played well when he first got here.

I actually think I got criticised at the time when we played Liverpool last season for saying he played his first good game for us.

I think most people wanted him to be good because he cost 10m and let that cloud their judgement so convinced themselves he was good.

Did nothing of not imo since he joined and didn't deserve his England call up either! (although maybe he did because maybe England genuinely have no one better)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on September 28, 2017, 06:40:06 AM
I would absolutely disagree with the he played well when he first got here.

I actually think I got criticised at the time when we played Liverpool last season for saying he played his first good game for us.

I think most people wanted him to be good because he cost 10m and let that cloud their judgement so convinced themselves he was good.

Did nothing of not imo since he joined and didn't deserve his England call up either! (although maybe he did because maybe England genuinely have no one better)

Average Premier squad player IMO
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: don1thedon on September 28, 2017, 02:13:29 PM
Still in the England squad, I thought he might miss out given his recent absence & form.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 28, 2017, 03:22:35 PM
Lack of other options I guess. Delph has been recalled despite barely playing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WoysWunderful on September 28, 2017, 03:27:12 PM
Regardless of his form, how lovely is it to have our players called up to the national side? I dont follow england but its some prestige. Come a very long way from when i first started supporting in the early 90s  :o
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on September 28, 2017, 04:20:15 PM
Still in the England squad, I thought he might miss out given his recent absence & form.
That's why nobody on here is a football manager/coach, I love it when people pick a team on here I look at some and laugh! All down to opinion though!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on September 30, 2017, 12:18:32 AM
 :o shocked that he's  anywhere near our first team since he first came here, what does yacob have to do ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kendo on September 30, 2017, 12:31:17 PM
He ain,t good enough for us never mind getting in the England set up. It was a bad buy in the first place.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 30, 2017, 02:05:36 PM
Rested (dropped) today. Very pleased.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on September 30, 2017, 06:15:52 PM
Wasn't that impressed with his performance today. Looked off the pace
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ashdoy on September 30, 2017, 07:47:28 PM
Been off the pace since he got here. Terrible, even as a squad player.

Still trying to work out what he's actually good at.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on September 30, 2017, 07:52:23 PM
Can someone tell me what he offers?

Apart from his effort, does he have any notable qualities?

How he plays for England is beyond me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on September 30, 2017, 08:05:57 PM
would have yacob ahead of Livermore anytime. like many I wasn't impressed that we signed him and will end up just being a more expensive Gardner. just shows how poor England must be if he gets picked.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on September 30, 2017, 08:08:08 PM
This is what depresses me about England , no disrespect but if he can get in the England squad there obviously not much about is there
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on September 30, 2017, 09:12:52 PM
Thought he did fine when he came on. Re Yacob, he won't and shouldn't dislodge either Barry or Krychowiak as the 2 main CMs and Yacob cannot play further forward.

If Yacob had come on today Pulis would have been slaughtered more for sitting back inviting pressure.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 30, 2017, 09:34:18 PM
Thought he did fine when he came on. Re Yacob, he won't and shouldn't dislodge either Barry or Krychowiak as the 2 main CMs and Yacob cannot play further forward.

If Yacob had come on today Pulis would have been slaughtered more for sitting back inviting pressure.
Spot on mate
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Nice1Cyrille on September 30, 2017, 10:26:20 PM
I don't rate him, he doesn't bring anything extra to the team IMO.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 28, 2017, 11:15:19 PM
Much better from Jake today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on October 28, 2017, 11:36:24 PM
Agreed, a huge work rate and much better - credit where credit is due
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on October 29, 2017, 12:00:45 AM
Hopefully can kick on and continue in a much more winnable fixture next. Will see a lot more of the ball too
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ashdoy on October 29, 2017, 08:15:52 AM
At fault for the 2nd goal. Too deep and in line with back line when he should have been closer to Fernandinho.

66% success with the ball. Brings nothing. Just a more expensive Craig Gardner.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Sted1990 on October 29, 2017, 08:32:37 AM
Cost us the 2nd goal, better overall but Yacob is more suited to the role he's being asked to play.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on October 29, 2017, 09:21:56 AM
Cost us the 2nd goal, better overall but Yacob is more suited to the role he's being asked to play.
To pin the 2nd goal on him is going too far. Yacob could not have played the role Jake was playing yesterday i.e. closing  Man City down high up the pitch etc. Yacob doesn't have the mobility or engine to do that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ashdoy on October 29, 2017, 09:26:22 AM
To pin the 2nd goal on him is going too far. Yacob could not have played the role Jake was playing yesterday i.e. closing  Man City down high up the pitch etc. Yacob doesn't have the mobility or engine to do that.

He didn’t close them down high up the pitch. He was in our penalty area for the goal, which gave Fernandinho 15 yards of space to get a shot away.

Whether this is instructed by TP, who as we know likes players to the way to block it, I don’t know. It obviously causes more harm than it solves though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on October 29, 2017, 09:31:07 AM
He didn’t close them down high up the pitch. He was in our penalty area for the goal, which gave Fernandinho 15 yards of space to get a shot away.

Whether this is instructed by TP, who as we know likes players to the way to block it, I don’t know. It obviously causes more harm than it solves though.
I'd like to see his pitch map for yesterday - if you think he just sat as Yacob does then I was seeing something different to you.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on October 29, 2017, 01:35:36 PM
Decent work rate perhaps, but he still cannot pass for toffee which for a central midfielder is far from ideal
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on October 29, 2017, 02:56:36 PM
If you were playing two in the middle and one was Barry, I do get the argument that live,ore is more mobile than Yacob....
But no way is he has destructive and currently we have three of the buggers in there

If you just go on playing style and impact, I'd suggest yesterday (with the pole n Barry ) Yacob would have worked better, I'd also suggest that boufell would have been "dealt with" before he even got to the box last week

Yacob does not have the mobility, but the way we play means he doesn't need it, should be in.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on October 29, 2017, 03:14:16 PM
So even when we play 3 centre backs you'd still have Yacob sitting just in front of them with his very limited passing range ? Doesn't leave much scope for the more attacking football people want.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on October 29, 2017, 03:31:39 PM
So even when we play 3 centre backs you'd still have Yacob sitting just in front of them with his very limited passing range ? Doesn't leave much scope for the more attacking football people want.

Do you consider Livermore attacking? Despite the fact he possesses no attacking attributes?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Canmore Baggie on October 29, 2017, 03:39:29 PM
While I am not really a fan of Livermore I can understand Pulis deploying him as one of 3 DMs against teams like City. What I really struggle with is how he gets on the pitch against anyone outside the top 6.

Against everyone else we should be playing Greg and Barry (or Yacob) and then an attacking quartet up front. Still, fully expect him to be clogging up the midfield in Yorkshire on Saturday.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on October 29, 2017, 05:56:49 PM
Do you consider Livermore attacking? Despite the fact he possesses no attacking attributes?
No I don't but we are missing an AM and Livermore can do box to box if that's the role he's being asked to play - he's not as restricted in the role he can play as Yacob is. 
The ideal is to sign a quality AM in January, someone who is a proper midfielder but with natural attacking instincts (think Morrison only younger, fitter and hopefully a bit better as that's what we should strive for). Only then will we have the right balance available for midfield selection.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie53 on October 29, 2017, 06:15:13 PM
Everyone keeps mentioning Yacob's "limited" passing.

FFS everyone in the team has limited passing, none of them can find a team mate
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Foster#1 on October 29, 2017, 06:30:41 PM
Everyone keeps mentioning Yacob's "limited" passing.

FFS everyone in the team has limited passing, none of them can find a team mate

Nail on the head. It's a team game, they're all as useless as each other
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on October 29, 2017, 06:52:25 PM
Everyone keeps mentioning Yacob's "limited" passing.

FFS everyone in the team has limited passing, none of them can find a team mate
Gareth Barry
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ashdoy on October 29, 2017, 07:08:54 PM
Everyone keeps mentioning Yacob's "limited" passing.

FFS everyone in the team has limited passing, none of them can find a team mate

Bang on. Yesterday we had less than 66% pass success, based on only 250 passes - awful.

We need to stop the rot, Yacob in is a foregone conclusion for me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Nice1Cyrille on October 29, 2017, 07:22:01 PM
Agreed, I think Yacob should start next game ahead of Livermore
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: stubba on October 29, 2017, 08:15:26 PM
Personally thought he was dire yesterday
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on October 29, 2017, 08:40:10 PM
Personally thought he was dire yesterday

He has been for the past 6 months, and apart from his purple patch when we first signed him - he hasn't been a good signing at all.

I think he has a good attitude but it's pretty clear at this point that he's not too dissimilar to Craig Gardner (ok, so he isn't as bad as Gardner, but he still offers very little and is a bit of a 'jack of all...master of none' like Gardner was).

With Yacob he is as limited in attack, but far superior in defending. Livermore has squandered countless attacking positions with bad composure, whether it's shooting or passing. I feel there's nothing to lose with Yacob who was been very unfortunate not to have started more this season. I would even go as far to say that with Yacob in the team we'd have at least 2 more points which is quite a bit at this stage of the season and would relieve some of the pressure.

Funnily enough, I felt that Irvine massively under-used Yacob and paid the price. I'm a big fan of Yacob's and think he goes un-noticed for how much he offers the team, unsurprisingly we do poorly without him. The same goes for Brunt.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on October 29, 2017, 08:55:26 PM
Agree on Yacob. If we are going to play with a defensive midfielder, which I think we should, then he is the best we have. I'd have him holding with Gregor box to box and Chadli sat behind the strikers linking the wingers. I know they are not all on form but I think thats where the talent is, and plays the best players in their best positions. Barry and Livermore would be good from the bench.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bangkokbaggie on October 29, 2017, 10:34:31 PM
No I don't but we are missing an AM and Livermore can do box to box if that's the role he's being asked to play - he's not as restricted in the role he can play as Yacob is. 
The ideal is to sign a quality AM in January, someone who is a proper midfielder but with natural attacking instincts (think Morrison only younger, fitter and hopefully a bit better as that's what we should strive for). Only then will we have the right balance available for midfield selection.

Shouldn't that have been a top priority during the past summer transfer window?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on October 30, 2017, 06:53:19 PM
Shouldn't that have been a top priority during the past summer transfer window?
Yes....but they probably hoped Morrison would be available more than he has been....so it's a priority for January or should  be.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 30, 2017, 10:51:56 PM
Yes....but they probably hoped Morrison would be available more than he has been....so it's a priority for January or should  be.
So priority is
a) striker
b) amf
c) RB
Clearly recruitment  to date has been focussed and successful. I get that it's a constant cycle but why the hell are we so overstocked on DMF when we have glaring deficiencies in these areas?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ashdoy on October 30, 2017, 11:00:23 PM
So priority is
a) striker
b) amf
c) RB
Clearly recruitment  to date has been focussed and successful. I get that it's a constant cycle but why the hell are we so overstocked on DMF when we have glaring deficiencies in these areas?

And now heavily linked with Carrick, and possible renewing of the lad from Fenerbache.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bangkokbaggie on October 31, 2017, 01:16:20 AM
Yes....but they probably hoped Morrison would be available more than he has been....so it's a priority for January or should  be.

Don't think they should be relying on Morrison. He only puts in an acceptable performance around one in every 6 games.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on October 31, 2017, 07:29:56 AM
And now heavily linked with Carrick, and possible renewing of the lad from Fenerbache.

We never learn do we?
Carrick is 36, how many more dead horses is this club going to flog?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on October 31, 2017, 08:27:02 AM
Don't think they should be relying on Morrison. He only puts in an acceptable performance around one in every 6 games.
Wouldn't go that far but I agree he's not going to stay fit and perform consistently for a run of 15 - 20 games. We now need a younger, fitter and better alternative. That is top of my January priorities, above strikers - whatever anyone thinks of them we do have strikers but we have not had an AM available for selection.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: saml30 on November 01, 2017, 11:11:58 AM
When he came I thought he was great, then he started to frustrate me by only seemingly passing sideways or backwards. Now he's trying to pass forward I'm longing for him to go back to passing sideways or backwards, don't think I ever want to see him attempt a forward pass again
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on November 01, 2017, 12:35:12 PM
We never learn do we?
Carrick is 36, how many more dead horses is this club going to flog?

We don't flog dead horses, we buy them !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on November 01, 2017, 01:08:58 PM
I think Livermore is a good footballer, his first few games he showed he uses the ball well and he did seem natural on the ball.

The problem is he has had to adapt to the Pulis way of playing and he no longer did what he was good at as it isnt required and he isnt very good at doing the Pulis way - chase the ball tirelessly.

Same goes for Greg, i couldnt believe it when we signed him, he was / is a class act but in our team he looks very average, again he is a quality footballer but we never have the ball. After a positive few games i think Barry has gradually got worse too, i dont think the three of them all just happened to of gone poor, we have brought them and then dont play to their strengths.

Thats why Yacob not being picked is bizarre, he is one of the few players under Pulis who has got better and impressed, yet he no longer gets in the team.

We may as well have midfielders like Joe Ledley, Glenn Whelan, they are more chase and get in the faces type players, not that good on the ball but it dont really matter when you never have it anyway, those type of players suit Pulis style so i dont see why we didnt just sign a few of those.

Same goes for attacking players, we may as well have a Shane Long, Troy Deeney type, put themselves about, handful, etc Rondon tries his best at it and does a decent job but it isnt his natural game, he has more to offer than that.

Again similar to Yacob, i am surprised Mcclean isnt picked every week, he is exactly what Pulis wants in a wide man, works hard, tracks back, not fancy stuff, does a job. (For what its worth i like both Yacob and Mcclean and would play them both even if my description of them does make them sound limited!)

I think Pulis is caught somewhere in between buying players he thinks will improve us but then using them in his usual methods which defeats the object of buying them and i think Livermore like the others above is a victim of that.

We could Xavi and within a few games he would be chasing the ball and not able to keep it, i really did think start of this season we would see a progress in the team and how it plays but we havent, we have gone backwards because we dont have the right players for Pulis style.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ashdoy on November 01, 2017, 01:16:56 PM
I think Livermore is a good footballer, his first few games he showed he uses the ball well and he did seem natural on the ball.

The problem is he has had to adapt to the Pulis way of playing and he no longer did what he was good at as it isnt required and he isnt very good at doing the Pulis way - chase the ball tirelessly.

Same goes for Greg, i couldnt believe it when we signed him, he was / is a class act but in our team he looks very average, again he is a quality footballer but we never have the ball. After a positive few games i think Barry has gradually got worse too, i dont think the three of them all just happened to of gone poor, we have brought them and then dont play to their strengths.

Thats why Yacob not being picked is bizarre, he is one of the few players under Pulis who has got better and impressed, yet he no longer gets in the team.

We may as well have midfielders like Joe Ledley, Glenn Whelan, they are more chase and get in the faces type players, not that good on the ball but it dont really matter when you never have it anyway, those type of players suit Pulis style so i dont see why we didnt just sign a few of those.

Same goes for attacking players, we may as well have a Shane Long, Troy Deeney type, put themselves about, handful, etc Rondon tries his best at it and does a decent job but it isnt his natural game, he has more to offer than that.

Again similar to Yacob, i am surprised Mcclean isnt picked every week, he is exactly what Pulis wants in a wide man, works hard, tracks back, not fancy stuff, does a job. (For what its worth i like both Yacob and Mcclean and would play them both even if my description of them does make them sound limited!)

I think Pulis is caught somewhere in between buying players he thinks will improve us but then using them in his usual methods which defeats the object of buying them and i think Livermore like the others above is a victim of that.

We could Xavi and within a few games he would be chasing the ball and not able to keep it, i really did think start of this season we would see a progress in the team and how it plays but we havent, we have gone backwards because we dont have the right players for Pulis style.

Genuinely a cracking post; spot on with that.

I agree that we are asking players to show their talents when we have less than 30% of the ball per game. If a ball is in play for 60minutes, we are only on it for 20mins per game! shocking really.

But yes we may as well have other players who are happier chasing.

I believe this is why Pulis is losing the dressing room; better players such as Phillips, Chadli, Rondon, Greg and Evans have all rumoured to have fell out with Pulis because they are used to better styles.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on November 01, 2017, 04:34:59 PM
I think Livermore is a good footballer, his first few games he showed he uses the ball well and he did seem natural on the ball.

The problem is he has had to adapt to the Pulis way of playing and he no longer did what he was good at as it isnt required and he isnt very good at doing the Pulis way - chase the ball tirelessly.

Same goes for Greg, i couldnt believe it when we signed him, he was / is a class act but in our team he looks very average, again he is a quality footballer but we never have the ball. After a positive few games i think Barry has gradually got worse too, i dont think the three of them all just happened to of gone poor, we have brought them and then dont play to their strengths.

Thats why Yacob not being picked is bizarre, he is one of the few players under Pulis who has got better and impressed, yet he no longer gets in the team.

We may as well have midfielders like Joe Ledley, Glenn Whelan, they are more chase and get in the faces type players, not that good on the ball but it dont really matter when you never have it anyway, those type of players suit Pulis style so i dont see why we didnt just sign a few of those.

Same goes for attacking players, we may as well have a Shane Long, Troy Deeney type, put themselves about, handful, etc Rondon tries his best at it and does a decent job but it isnt his natural game, he has more to offer than that.

Again similar to Yacob, i am surprised Mcclean isnt picked every week, he is exactly what Pulis wants in a wide man, works hard, tracks back, not fancy stuff, does a job. (For what its worth i like both Yacob and Mcclean and would play them both even if my description of them does make them sound limited!)

I think Pulis is caught somewhere in between buying players he thinks will improve us but then using them in his usual methods which defeats the object of buying them and i think Livermore like the others above is a victim of that.

We could Xavi and within a few games he would be chasing the ball and not able to keep it, i really did think start of this season we would see a progress in the team and how it plays but we havent, we have gone backwards because we dont have the right players for Pulis style.

Exactly this. On the odd few times that Barry, Livermore, Greg do get on the ball and there is a bit of passing  and movement going on everybody looks better. I also think that it is not a coincidence that this happens more times when Brunt and/or Chadli is playing as well
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on November 01, 2017, 04:45:18 PM

Exactly this. On the odd few times that Barry, Livermore, Greg do get on the ball and there is a bit of passing  and movement going on everybody looks better. I also think that it is not a coincidence that this happens more times when Brunt and/or Chadli is playing as well

One of the best posts i have seen on this site, its bang on the money. How I would love to get the real take on what the players think of the training, the selections, set up and general atmosphere around the club. I can only think there is a lot of fear to maintain such a lack of dissent.
Good footballers must want more than rigid organisation surely
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiebof on November 01, 2017, 05:24:38 PM
I think Pulis is caught somewhere in between buying players he thinks will improve us but then using them in his usual methods which defeats the object of buying them and i think Livermore like the others above is a victim of that.

I'll probably be corrected on this but I think this is what happened towards Pulis' tenure at Stoke, Tuncay springs to mind as an example.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 02, 2017, 03:09:26 PM
Appears to have been dropped by Southgate.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on November 02, 2017, 03:36:05 PM
I'll probably be corrected on this but I think this is what happened towards Pulis' tenure at Stoke, Tuncay springs to mind as an example.

And Jermaine Pennant
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on November 02, 2017, 04:58:09 PM
right call by southgate to not include him, shouldn't be in the Albion starting line up either.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 03, 2017, 01:55:32 PM
Appears to have been dropped by Southgate.

Comes as no surprise. Not sure what he had done to merit selection to begin with.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gavinrussell on November 06, 2017, 06:28:34 PM
Matt Wilson reports Livermore to replace the injured Ali for friendlies..Southgate must see something we don't. ..
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on November 06, 2017, 06:44:55 PM
Matt Wilson reports Livermore to replace the injured Ali for friendlies..Southgate must see something we don't. ..

Keane has been called up
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on November 06, 2017, 09:26:14 PM
according to this he has been called up.

http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/909591871?-11200:789:0
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 06, 2017, 09:29:02 PM
Keane has been called up

Keane isn't going to be brought in as a replacement for Alli though surely?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on November 06, 2017, 09:34:38 PM
Keane isn't going to be brought in as a replacement for Alli though surely?
a defender replacing a forward not likely because southgates the England manager not pulis.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on November 06, 2017, 09:34:51 PM
Always good to see an Albion player called up for England. Well done Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on November 06, 2017, 10:57:58 PM
Keane isn't going to be brought in as a replacement for Alli though surely?

That's what I thought, but they were talking about it on the radio, announced earlier today before the other injury news. reported in a load of places too:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/sport/football/4850992/michael-keane-england-squad-replace-dele-alli-germany-brazil/amp/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/41883919
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on November 07, 2017, 08:44:37 AM
Joke, if this is what we have to look forward to England wise, football is really on a downer at the moment.
Livermore should be on our training pitch working aarrrd not swaning around with the so called elite
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on November 07, 2017, 09:22:00 AM
This call up suggests that Southgate does not watch much football. ???
Absolutely bonkers.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on November 07, 2017, 09:38:08 AM
An Albion player is called up for England and all people can do is criticise the bloke... unbelievable.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on November 07, 2017, 09:50:17 AM
It could be that Southgate maybe knows Livermore is a decent footballer who is being massively restricted?

Gone are the days of the Beckhams, Scholes, Lampards, Gerrards, etc English football is where it is. Livermore, Henderson, Ox, are now our standard.

Based on current form, Greg wouldnt be called up by Poland because he has been rubbish, Phillips wouldnt for scotland, Mcclean wouldnt for Ireland, Rondon for Venezualea, Brunt, Evans and McAuley for Northern Ireland, etc.

I think the national coaches see through how we play and know that there are some good footballers in there.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on November 07, 2017, 10:15:06 AM
An Albion player is called up for England and all people can do is criticise the bloke... unbelievable.
That's because I'm also an England fan and if a player so desperately out of form is the best option we have we are in trouble.
Get off your high horse mate, my opinions are based on football not sentiment.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: don1thedon on November 07, 2017, 10:23:06 AM
I wasn't too surprised he didn't make the original squad this time but I am chuffed he has been called up. I'm always pleased to see a Baggie in the England squad.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wolverhampton baggie on November 07, 2017, 10:38:22 AM
Well done Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on November 07, 2017, 10:40:03 AM
That's because I'm also an England fan and if a player so desperately out of form is the best option we have we are in trouble.
Get off your high horse mate, my opinions are based on football not sentiment.

Played ok for England when I saw him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sing on our own on November 07, 2017, 11:57:56 AM
As an Albion fan I’m pleased we are represented in an England squad.... as an England fan it shows how poor we are and why we will flop again next summer. He shouldn’t be in our (WBA’s) team at the moment never mind England’s.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbako on November 07, 2017, 06:40:16 PM
Played ok for England when I saw him.

That's your opinion.

In my opinion, he was pooh.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: barnestormer on November 07, 2017, 11:26:32 PM
That's your opinion.

In my opinion, he was S***e.
motm first call up under southgate and then gone backwards since,club a country
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wollastonbaggie on November 08, 2017, 06:29:29 AM
It could be that Southgate maybe knows Livermore is a decent footballer who is being massively restricted?

I think the national coaches see through how we play and know that there are some good footballers in there.

Both the above statements are spot on. Livermore has it in him to be a decent footballer but not in a team that plays as Albion do. Nobody is allowed to play their natural game.

 Posters on here go on about getting somebody in who can pass the ball-fine get somebody but all they'll find is there's no-one in space/making a run to receive the ball because they're all holding their positions-behind the ball. Then our new passer of the ball will get stick for a lousy pass success rate. We could have reincarnations of Giles, Hope or anybody else who can drop the ball exactly where they want , but if the only targets they've got are outnumbered strikers what's the point. We only play in 1 third of the pitch most of the time-the third nearest our goal. It's hardly surprising there's no-one to receive a pass to start/participate in an attack when we eventually get hold of the ball. So it's just hoofed out, only to come back immediately

It's not new players we need it's a new coach who will allow the players we've got to play the way they should.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on November 10, 2017, 08:46:20 PM
Good first half for England
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tylerm on November 10, 2017, 10:16:36 PM
In his first game for us (can’t remember who it was) he was superb. Since then he has gradually got worse. Wonder why ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionDaz on November 10, 2017, 10:34:03 PM
He did well tonight,considering he isn't allowed to be more mobile for his Club.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on November 10, 2017, 10:42:45 PM
In the pub watching the game with 20+ Albion fans all agree Livermore had a good game and said looks like a different player to the one who plays for us on a Saturday! Pulis out
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 10, 2017, 11:01:28 PM
In the pub watching the game with 20+ Albion fans all agree Livermore had a good game and said looks like a different player to the one who plays for us on a Saturday! Pulis out
I can only agree there.
Is there any god who listens?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on November 11, 2017, 08:24:40 AM
looks a much better player when he's got players in front of him who make runs and find space. he had a decent game but I noticed for England he never stands still, always moving and wants the ball. if only we had that player every week.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 11, 2017, 08:38:41 AM
looks a much better player when he's got players in front of him who make runs and find space. he had a decent game but I noticed for England he never stands still, always moving and wants the ball. if only we had that player every week.

We could have, if we weren't so rigidly static. Which the longer it goes on appears to be tactical more than anything else.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on November 11, 2017, 09:26:41 AM
Yes just realised TP has invented an original football tactic ZONAL NOFENCE
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ex coseley kid on November 11, 2017, 10:10:33 AM
In the pub watching the game with 20+ Albion fans all agree Livermore had a good game and said looks like a different player to the one who plays for us on a Saturday! Pulis out

Absolutely, exactly. Watching Livermore last night told me what I've been thinking all along. We have a decent squad gloriously mismanaged by a clueless idiot.

Let's get rid and get more from this team while we still can!!!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on November 11, 2017, 10:58:08 AM
Absolutely, exactly. Watching Livermore last night told me what I've been thinking all along. We have a decent squad gloriously mismanaged by a clueless idiot.

Let's get rid and get more from this team while we still can!!!
Couldn't agree more it's so frustrating as you say we have a good squad now who could do so much better.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: don1thedon on November 11, 2017, 11:08:05 AM
He played much of the game around or forward of the half way line, something we are not used to seeing!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on November 11, 2017, 12:17:13 PM
Unlike most I thought he had a pretty good game against Man City. We pushed further up against them and Livermore was sometimes joining Rondon and Rodriguez closing down the Man C defenders. He does have a good engine and is not as slow as people sometimes make out.
Not sure why we set up so much deeper against the likes of Southampton and Huddersfield away.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tylerm on November 11, 2017, 12:29:05 PM
Unlike most I thought he had a pretty good game against Man City. We pushed further up against them and Livermore was sometimes joining Rondon and Rodriguez closing down the Man C defenders. He does have a good engine and is not as slow as people sometimes make out.
Not sure why we set up so much deeper against the likes of Southampton and Huddersfield away.

It’s obvious why we set up so much deeper. It’s the managers cowardly tactics
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on November 11, 2017, 12:32:35 PM
It’s obvious why we set up so much deeper. It’s the managers cowardly tactics
It is pretty obvious, I wasn't literally asking the reason why. Saying that they showed Pulis early on in the Southampton yelling and gesturing for us to push up.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on November 11, 2017, 05:45:19 PM
It is pretty obvious, I wasn't literally asking the reason why. Saying that they showed Pulis early on in the Southampton yelling and gesturing for us to push up.
I’ve got a theory about this. I reckon our lot are grilled during training to know what’s expected of them. Then on a match day, they’re told to ignore any instructions from the sidelines during a game.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gavinrussell on November 14, 2017, 07:25:39 PM
Starts tonight against Brazil.....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 14, 2017, 08:22:28 PM
His passing is just awful
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mikkyk on November 14, 2017, 08:36:06 PM
According to Clive Tyldesley his form in his last couple of matches for West Brom has been "more encouraging". Absolutely hilarious / patronising
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 14, 2017, 08:47:44 PM
According to Clive Tyldesley his form in his last couple of matches for West Brom has been "more encouraging". Absolutely hilarious / patronising

He speaks as a man who has most definitely not seen our 'last couple of matches'.

All he has done in this game is give the ball away and foul people. I didn't watch the Germany game so can't comment on that one, but I see no different a player here to what I have seen since we signed him
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 14, 2017, 09:15:02 PM
Finally got booked. He has been absolutely dreadful. So many fouls and so many misplaced passes
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mikkyk on November 14, 2017, 09:17:48 PM
Finally got booked. He has been absolutely dreadful. So many fouls and so many misplaced passes

It has been at embarrassing performance by him
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on November 14, 2017, 09:41:58 PM
He's playing against Brazil and put in a good shift.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 14, 2017, 09:45:04 PM
He's playing against Brazil and put in a good shift.

Worked 'aaard you could say
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 14, 2017, 09:48:22 PM
Of course..That's Pulis style..Absolute dire.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on November 14, 2017, 10:24:45 PM
He's playing against Brazil and put in a good shift.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, have you ever heard of Adrian Durham?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiesboots on November 14, 2017, 10:30:05 PM
He might not have had a great game, but 'dire' is  harsh. He's representing Albion against the best national team in the world and although a friendly,we  got a result. It's far to easy to always be negative about everything to do with Albion for some.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on November 14, 2017, 10:40:19 PM
Funnily enough those who moan about Pulis being negative are the most negative about Albion in general.

One of our lads has just played against Germany and Brazil and done himself proud in my view, let's give him our support.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 14, 2017, 10:42:26 PM
He might not have had a great game, but 'dire' is  harsh. He's representing Albion against the best national team in the world and although a friendly,we  got a result. It's far to easy to always be negative about everything to do with Albion for some.

England got a result. Jake Livermore was awful.

I have nothing against any of our players and find it impossible to judge them under our current manager as he is such a limiting influence on any ability they may have. I have merely watched him for the 85 minutes he played tonight and he was dreadful.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 14, 2017, 10:43:09 PM
Funnily enough those who moan about Pulis being negative are the most negative about Albion in general.

One of our lads has just played against Germany and Brazil and done himself proud in my view, let's give him our support.

Your life must be utterly blissful with how low your standards are.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Legend on November 14, 2017, 10:46:06 PM
Your life must be utterly blissful with how low your standards are.

Defensively he was very good, protected the defence well.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 14, 2017, 10:46:37 PM
Defensively he was very good, protected the defence well.

True, he halted many of their attacks...with his incessant fouls.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on November 14, 2017, 10:58:56 PM
To be fair Fernández who plays for Man City and Brazil when ever available is in there to do the dirty stuff in the same way Jake is being deployed. I am not suggesting that Jake is in the same bracket but if the manager asks him to do the nasty stuff and he does it's a bit unfair to knock him for it
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 14, 2017, 11:02:15 PM
Defensively he was very good, protected the defence well.
Back tracking as per Pulis style...As I said dire.
If you have a Formula one racing car, why put into reverse for over half the race? (Pulis style).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on November 14, 2017, 11:12:25 PM
Funnily enough those who moan about Pulis being negative are the most negative about Albion in general.

One of our lads has just played against Germany and Brazil and done himself proud in my view, let's give him our support.
This is very unusual I actually agree with you I thought he played well I really can't understand the nasty negative comments on here about one of our players, ar well itvtakes all sorts.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 14, 2017, 11:20:46 PM
This is very unusual I actually agree with you I thought he played well I really can't understand the nasty negative comments on here about one of our players, ar well itvtakes all sorts.

Nothing nasty about it in the slightest, just factual. If you rate a performance by that player staying in the team shape then he had a decent game, but call me crazy for thinking that a central midfielder should be able to pass a ball and time a tackle more often than not. Only seen three reports on his performance in the press thus far, I’ll paste each of them...

Jake Livermore
Another out of his depth technically and the victim of a Neymar nutmeg, he nevertheless maintained discipline tactically - if not temperamentally following a clash with Dani Alves. 6/10 (The Telegraph)

Livermore, on his 28th birthday, was probably England’s most influential player, which is not quite as complimentary as it sounds. Casemiro cut out a crucial attempted through-ball; Neymar sent him for a £7 Wembley hot dog and then later taunted him by doing about 11 stepovers in a row. On the 12th attempt, Livermore simply scythed him down, earning a booking. And somehow, in a vaguely Orwellian way, that little vignette encapsulated the game: Jake Livermore’s boot, stamping on a human foot that was not his own, forever. (The Independent)

Jake Livermore - 5

An underwhelming showing from Livermore in midfield, improved at least by the fact that he just about managed to avoid having to take an early bath after a scuffle with Alves early in the second half. (Eurosport)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on November 14, 2017, 11:26:58 PM
Nothing nasty about it in the slightest, just factual. If you rate a performance by that player staying in the team shape then he had a decent game, but call me crazy for thinking that a central midfielder should be able to pass a ball and time a tackle more often than not. Only seen three reports on his performance in the press thus far, I’ll paste each of them...

Jake Livermore
Another out of his depth technically and the victim of a Neymar nutmeg, he nevertheless maintained discipline tactically - if not temperamentally following a clash with Dani Alves. 6/10 (The Telegraph)

Livermore, on his 28th birthday, was probably England’s most influential player, which is not quite as complimentary as it sounds. Casemiro cut out a crucial attempted through-ball; Neymar sent him for a £7 Wembley hot dog and then later taunted him by doing about 11 stepovers in a row. On the 12th attempt, Livermore simply scythed him down, earning a booking. And somehow, in a vaguely Orwellian way, that little vignette encapsulated the game: Jake Livermore’s boot, stamping on a human foot that was not his own, forever. (The Independent)

Jake Livermore - 5

An underwhelming showing from Livermore in midfield, improved at least by the fact that he just about managed to avoid having to take an early bath after a scuffle with Alves early in the second half. (Eurosport)
Nothing like the press for an over the top reaction just about managed to avoid an early bath!? He wasn't even booked, it was handbags! Neymar but megged him wow big deal he is one of the best players in the world! I wouldn't be to worried about that if I was Livermore!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 14, 2017, 11:30:05 PM
Nothing like the press for an over the top reaction just about managed to avoid an early bath!? He wasn't even booked, it was handbags! Neymar but megged him wow big deal he is one of the best players in the world! I wouldn't be to worried about that if I was Livermore!

He was booked though...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on November 15, 2017, 12:01:26 AM
He was booked though...
Not for that incident though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wollastonbaggie on November 15, 2017, 06:26:51 AM
To read some of the posts on here, you'd think England were carrying a passenger while Livermore was on the pitch. You don't hold 1 of the best teams in the world if you're carrying a passenger. He played almost all of the game , so presumably his manager was happy with his performance. There were others who misplaced passes/got caught in possession/gave the ball away-Dier being 1 of the main culprits, but never mind let's ignore every body else's mistakes and just slag off Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 15, 2017, 08:19:37 AM
To read some of the posts on here, you'd think England were carrying a passenger while Livermore was on the pitch. You don't hold 1 of the best teams in the world if you're carrying a passenger. He played almost all of the game , so presumably his manager was happy with his performance. There were others who misplaced passes/got caught in possession/gave the ball away-Dier being 1 of the main culprits, but never mind let's ignore every body else's mistakes and just slag off Livermore.

Agree on Dier, but this isn’t the Eric Dier thread...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mikkyk on November 15, 2017, 10:39:19 AM
I am absolutely all for backing our players, especially when they play for England but I honestly don't know what game people who thought he had a good game were watching.

He was a laughing stock of the game (even to my non West Brom fan mantes), getting beaten by all ends up on a few occasions with his few forward passes going wildly astray.

And yes, if it wasn't a friendly he would've been sent off, if not for the scuffle with Alves then for his persistent fouling - he was booked.

I admit he was up against very good players but if you are using that as an argument to defend his poor performance, surely that in itself shows he was out of his depth?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: adamw1109 on November 15, 2017, 10:59:50 AM
I am absolutely all for backing our players, especially when they play for England but I honestly don't know what game people who thought he had a good game were watching.

He was a laughing stock of the game (even to my non West Brom fan mantes), getting beaten by all ends up on a few occasions with his few forward passes going wildly astray.

And yes, if it wasn't a friendly he would've been sent off, if not for the scuffle with Alves then for his persistent fouling - he was booked.

I admit he was up against very good players but if you are using that as an argument to defend his poor performance, surely that in itself shows he was out of his depth?

You don't get beaten by some of the best players in the game and still manage to hold them to a draw.

He's nowhere near world class but it's clear to anyone with a footballing brain that he did the job that was asked of him, which is what was enough for that game.

Why would he have been sent off, regardless if it's a friendly or a final, the rules don't change.

Some people on here expect players to play like messi, neymar etc and fail to see what players bring to the game other than fancy flicks, through balls and goals.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wollastonbaggie on November 15, 2017, 11:06:40 AM
I don't know that anyone is saying he had a good game, just that he doesn't deserve the stick he's getting. The way I look at it is that he answered the call of his country's team manager and gave it his best. He could've said he was off for a break with his family and for all the thanks he's had on here I wouldn't blame if that's what he said next time. He may not be the best , but he was there on the night and , as far as I'm aware, wasn't keeping some star performer out of the team. He was asked to do a job and did it as well as he could, which is what his manager also thought, presumably.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wardy65 on November 15, 2017, 11:33:19 AM
Just watching Sky news, & Gerry Francis & Danny Mills were asked to name their England 11 for the first game, based on players they've seen up to now. Found it interesting, bearing in mind GF is still one of Albion's coaches, that he left Livermore out, preferring Henderson & Dier instead.
Bet that'll go down well back at the club.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mikkyk on November 15, 2017, 12:13:45 PM
You don't get beaten by some of the best players in the game and still manage to hold them to a draw.

He's nowhere near world class but it's clear to anyone with a footballing brain that he did the job that was asked of him, which is what was enough for that game.

Why would he have been sent off, regardless if it's a friendly or a final, the rules don't change.

Some people on here expect players to play like messi, neymar etc and fail to see what players bring to the game other than fancy flicks, through balls and goals.

Clearly the referees are more lenient in friendlies than competitive games, I'm sorry but that is a ridiculous comment.

And I am fully aware that he doesn't bring the fancy flicks, but he also fails to bring basic forward 10 yard passes. You don't need a football brain to work out that is rubbish. There was one occasion he genuinely passed it straight to a Brazil player and there was another occasion when he was looking the runner on the left, possibly Rashford, and overhit the ball by a good 20/30 yards - that's Sunday league stuff.

If the job given by Gareth Southgate was to foul the opposition, pass backwards and sideways to England players and pass forwards to Brazil players then he nailed his job.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 15, 2017, 12:19:35 PM
I don't know that anyone is saying he had a good game, just that he doesn't deserve the stick he's getting. The way I look at it is that he answered the call of his country's team manager and gave it his best. He could've said he was off for a break with his family and for all the thanks he's had on here I wouldn't blame if that's what he said next time. He may not be the best , but he was there on the night and , as far as I'm aware, wasn't keeping some star performer out of the team. He was asked to do a job and did it as well as he could, which is what his manager also thought, presumably.

Oh I'm not so sure, Albion59 said he thought he 'played well' and Legend of course believes that anything done that is associated with the Albion is fantastic regardless of the reality.

Ultimately from my perspective I am watching the full 90 minutes and just seeing a litany of errors from him and was commenting on them in the thread entitled 'Jake Livermore'. One moment in the first half summed up his lack of ability on the ball for me, the Brazil defence were on the halfway line, Vardy was ready to spin in behind and had the whole half of the pitch to run into as the ball fell at the feet of Livermore. Anyone with any ability could have easily lifted it over the head of the last defender on the halfway line with all that space for Vardy to run into, which is what Drinkwater did successfully for a whole season as they won the league, but Livermore somehow contrives to hit it straight at the chest of the defender. It was shocking.

We've paid £10m for a midfielder who seems only able to foul people and can only hit his own man with a five yard pass. Every time the ball comes to him he checks back inside and goes backwards or sideways.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AshD on November 15, 2017, 12:57:25 PM
In all fairness to Livermore, I will judge him when Pulis has gone.

His first half a dozen games for us, he looked like the mobile centre midfielder we had been waiting for - got around the pitch, and tried to push into the opposition half. Since then, he has become an absolute non entity of a midfield player, however is he a victim of the Pulis stranglehold???

Has never struck me as being England quality, and I don't think he ever will be, but I would like to see him in a non-Pulis Albion team and see whether his first month or so with us was a flash in the pan or a sign of what he can actually do!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on November 15, 2017, 12:59:34 PM
Not of international standard thats for sure

I quite like Livermore but he isnt a player that should be playing at that level
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mikkyk on November 15, 2017, 02:29:15 PM
In all fairness to Livermore, I will judge him when Pulis has gone.

His first half a dozen games for us, he looked like the mobile centre midfielder we had been waiting for - got around the pitch, and tried to push into the opposition half. Since then, he has become an absolute non entity of a midfield player, however is he a victim of the Pulis stranglehold???

Has never struck me as being England quality, and I don't think he ever will be, but I would like to see him in a non-Pulis Albion team and see whether his first month or so with us was a flash in the pan or a sign of what he can actually do!

I'll give Livermore that. It seems Pulis has strangled every central midfielder we have brought in.

Even Barry's passing hasn't been quite up to scratch recently.

I would still say I don't think his passing his great, but yes, has definitely deteriorated since he arrived which can only be attributed to one man.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on November 15, 2017, 03:03:30 PM
I'll give Livermore that. It seems Pulis has strangled every central midfielder we have brought in.

Even Barry's passing hasn't been quite up to scratch recently.

I would still say I don't think his passing his great, but yes, has definitely deteriorated since he arrived which can only be attributed to one man.

It can only be attributed to Livermore.....

There is not one coaching class where you are taught to misplace a pass constantly
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wollastonbaggie on November 15, 2017, 04:28:13 PM
It can only be attributed to Livermore.....

There is not one coaching class where you are taught to misplace a pass constantly

Every skill has to practised or it is lost or at least deteriorates. In a Pulis team passing is not a valued skill so it is not practised. As long as you can cover and chase and hold formation that's all that's required. The other point I would make is that last night I was surprised by the intensity of Brazil's game. They gave England players no time on the ball, hence the number of mistakes England players, not just Livermore, made. England weren't playing a Sunday league team and some appreciation of that fact wouldn't go amiss.

As for Livermore not being of international standard-Southgate obviously thinks at the moment he is the best available. If Southgate's first choices 11 were available I doubt Livermore would get near the teamsheet, but they're not and he is and deserves support not numerous blades in his back
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on November 15, 2017, 04:32:30 PM
It can only be attributed to Livermore.....

There is not one coaching class where you are taught to misplace a pass constantly

Not quite correct apparently our coach does have his players practice punting  the ball to areas of the pitch which are vacant to turn the opposition and to gain field position.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wigmore on November 15, 2017, 05:01:08 PM
Not quite correct apparently our coach does have his players practice punting  the ball to areas of the pitch which are vacant to turn the opposition and to gain field position.

I used to wonder just how bitter and twisted so called supporters can become when things are not going to plan. This nonsensical post shows just how daft people can become.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on November 15, 2017, 05:15:12 PM
Not quite correct apparently our coach does have his players practice punting  the ball to areas of the pitch which are vacant to turn the opposition and to gain field position.

Punting or Long passes to a tactical area?

it wouldnt stop a player who can pass to become bad at it...that doesnt happen at all
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: VVVAlbion on November 15, 2017, 08:04:12 PM
I used to wonder just how bitter and twisted so called supporters can become when things are not going to plan. This nonsensical post shows just how daft people can become.
To be fair to Albionic, this is pretty much a direct quote from Darren Fletcher when he was here. ???
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on November 15, 2017, 10:45:36 PM
I used to wonder just how bitter and twisted so called supporters can become when things are not going to plan. This nonsensical post shows just how daft people can become.
Please explain why this is nonsensical as it has been reported that what I described is in fact a TP tactic
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on November 16, 2017, 07:28:30 AM
In all fairness to Livermore, I will judge him when Pulis has gone.

His first half a dozen games for us, he looked like the mobile centre midfielder we had been waiting for - got around the pitch, and tried to push into the opposition half. Since then, he has become an absolute non entity of a midfield player, however is he a victim of the Pulis stranglehold???

Has never struck me as being England quality, and I don't think he ever will be, but I would like to see him in a non-Pulis Albion team and see whether his first month or so with us was a flash in the pan or a sign of what he can actually do!

Good point Ash, as with all of our players really.

Having read the Livermore thread, I notice that we have highlighted the fouls he committed. Another way of looking at it was that he broke play up. Its strange that when that Southampton player came waltzing through our midfield and defence the other week we all thought he should have been taken out at the half way line.........
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BigFrank20 on November 16, 2017, 07:44:39 AM
I used to wonder just how bitter and twisted so called supporters can become when things are not going to plan. This nonsensical post shows just how daft people can become.
Michael Owen had the same opinion about TP's training methods too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLUuQaBkXcs

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on November 16, 2017, 10:02:43 AM
Michael Owen had the same opinion about TP's training methods too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLUuQaBkXcs
thanks for that Frank, I have seen this referenced a few times from different folks, couldn't bring to mind the sources though. damn this demensha
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wigmore on November 16, 2017, 02:57:39 PM
Sorry, that clip does not confirm your original contention that, 'our coach does have his players practice punting the ball to areas of the pitch which are vacant to turn the opposition and to gain field position'.
It does confirm that that well known tactical genius Owen did not like playing 11 v 11 for an hour - nothing more.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on November 20, 2017, 06:19:39 PM
Rested (dropped) today. Very pleased.
If yo are going to back a player when I have said something against him try and remember  your previous posts.Hypocrite
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 20, 2017, 06:58:58 PM
If yo are going to back a player when I have said something against him try and remember  your previous posts.Hypocrite


I don't rate him but he won't be considered as dead wood as he only signed in January.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on December 26, 2017, 05:33:12 PM
Let's hope him being subbed is the end of his time here, I think we might all agree on this
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on December 26, 2017, 05:53:51 PM
Let's hope him being subbed is the end of his time here, I think we might all agree on this

Indeed, Sam Field is a different level.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 26, 2017, 05:59:59 PM
Yes, I think views on Yacob, Krycho and Field aside, everyone will be in agreement that he is awful. Finally makes a couple of cracking tackles in this game, only to pass it straight back to them.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on December 26, 2017, 06:06:31 PM
How much did we waste on him last January, £12m wasn't it? The money and wages spent on him, Barry, Greg & J-Rod would have been enough for a striker with real pedigree. Indictment on Pulis.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sing on our own on December 26, 2017, 06:29:58 PM
Shows how useless our national team is that he can get into the team. He doesn’t do anything good, even Paul Groves did the occasional good pass.... I think!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: andibaggy on December 26, 2017, 07:18:19 PM
Shows how useless our national team is that he can get into the team. He doesn’t do anything good, even Paul Groves did the occasional good pass.... I think!

Scott Darton was heard singing 'If he can play for England so can I' from the back of the Halfords.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on December 26, 2017, 08:47:34 PM
I can see why he is in the team, but he is a poor footballer.

He harasses and chases the ball down and forces turn overs. This was shown at the end of the first half when he won the ball halfway inside the Everton half.

He just lacks footballing ability. As shown by the fact he just passed the ball straight back to Everton!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Aztech on December 26, 2017, 08:49:19 PM
I can see why he is in the team, but he is a poor footballer.

He harasses and chases the ball down and forces turn overs. This was shown at the end of the second half when he won the ball halfway inside the Everton half.

He just lacks footballing ability. As shown by the fact he just passed the ball straight back to Everton!

Pulis type player!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on December 26, 2017, 09:00:44 PM
Scott Darton was heard singing 'If he can play for England so can I' from the back of the Halfords.

I heard Barry Cowdrill saying the same.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbawill on December 26, 2017, 09:37:22 PM
Absolutely dreadful footballer. He might be big and strong and knows where to stand on the pitch, but when the ball is at his feet, you know it will either be a two yard pass backward or given away. I hope he doesn't start another game for us in the premier league - he's a symptom of everything wrong with this shower.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Lloydy on December 26, 2017, 10:04:54 PM
Whether people rate him or not, there is no need for sarcastically cheering him being subbed, ridiculous and embarrassing. Don't think he is performing well but I do believe he is trying.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on December 26, 2017, 10:05:49 PM
I think he's in the team for his workrate. He covers alot of ground over 90 minutes when maybe others are tiring. However, I think he is best at closing opposition players down rather than as a creative player. He is better playing in a Yacob role or maybe converted into a centre back.   
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on December 26, 2017, 10:13:22 PM
Whether people rate him or not, there is no need for sarcastically cheering him being subbed, ridiculous and embarrassing. Don't think he is performing well but I do believe he is trying.
hope pardew heard what the crowd thought because he`s blinded by this poor english international,{southgate you have got a lot to answer for}
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 26, 2017, 10:20:11 PM
Whether people rate him or not, there is no need for sarcastically cheering him being subbed, ridiculous and embarrassing. Don't think he is performing well but I do believe he is trying.


Delighted that happened. Sends a message to both the manager and the player. Woeful.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on December 26, 2017, 11:12:23 PM
I have kept quiet on him up till now.
He hasn't made the grade, so should not be an Albion player, let alone a starter.
Gives to ball away too easy and too often.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Lloydy on December 26, 2017, 11:26:46 PM
hope pardew heard what the crowd thought because he`s blinded by this poor english international,{southgate you have got a lot to answer for}


Delighted that happened. Sends a message to both the manager and the player. Woeful.

I'm sure it really helped the already shattered confidence of the team. Well done gents.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: leeiswba on December 26, 2017, 11:29:19 PM
I'm sure it really helped the already shattered confidence of the team. Well done gents.

Yeah, I don’t rate Livermore at all but I don’t get anyone that would agree with sarcastic cheers and clapping. Terrrible ‘support’, something you definitely don’t need when in a relegation battle.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: saml30 on December 26, 2017, 11:34:57 PM
Said along time ago (can't remember if it was on this thread or another one) I like him as a 'certain type' of player but I never wanted to see him past forward again. This still applies
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiebof on December 27, 2017, 12:48:02 AM
He's been so underwhelming. When he signed, I was really hoping that he'd be the box-to-box midfielder that the squad needed but it became apparent very quickly that this was not  to be the case.

The best he has looked to me is when he has been the deepest midfielder, Leicester away springs to mind. He has quite a stocky build and seems suited to holding the midfield and I can see why he has played at centre back previously (granted this was in a terribly constructed Hull side with injuries). The thing is, most of our central midfield options are best suited to that role: Barry, Yacob and Krychowiak are all best there and you could argue Field although he's more of a deep-lying playmaker or facilitator of the ball than a holding midfielder.

Who would you have as the or the two holding midfielders in your starting 11? Unfortunately for Jake, he'd be bottom of my list.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on December 27, 2017, 09:19:17 AM
Awful player, another Gardner type who runs about a lot but offers nothing, absolutely zero.
Can't tackle, can't pass, can't shoot. How 3 managers, 4 if you include Southgate, keep picking him is beyond me. What on earth do they see????
Field does everything better and is the nearest thing to box to box midfielder that we have, Take his goal against Newcastle, when has Livermore ever bust a gut to get in a position like that, let alone show the composure to finish?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on December 27, 2017, 09:24:20 AM
Commented before that Livermore gets so much game time due to having a better engine than any of the other CMs (possibly barring Field).
If we played Barry and Yacob together that would be a horribly undynamic pairing. We are more or less forced to have one of Barry/Yacob as the deepest lying CM and then we need someone more dynamic alongside for getting up and down the pitch more. It's clear that Krychowiak is struggling if asked to play 'box to box' with the pace of the premier league.
 
I don't agree with the sarcastic cheering and clapping either if a player is putting in the effort but it's not working - which is often the case with Livermore (and he's not totally hopeless all the time either).

I've got no problem with Field being given a shot in this role.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on December 27, 2017, 02:29:18 PM
Woeful yesterday. When he did do something decent like win the ball back, he made sure to balance that out by giving it straight away again.

Don't think sarcastic cheering/booing etc is productive at all. I fear he's become the new whipping boy along with Greg (at least seemed that way from where I was standing), with every misplaced pass met with immediate groaning and negativity. Doesn't help confidence at all and makes them want the ball even less!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 31, 2017, 08:11:36 PM
Good game today Jake, much better 8.10pm and no-one on yet to run him down.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 31, 2017, 08:50:57 PM
Good game today Jake, much better 8.10pm and no-one on yet to run him down.


Have a read of the various match threads he was woeful again. People just haven't got the energy to repeat the obvious ad nauseum.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: maccbaggie on December 31, 2017, 09:13:24 PM
Good game today Jake, much better 8.10pm and no-one on yet to run him down.
Jake Livermore was absolutely atrocious, again. I'd live to see the stats for how often he gave the ball away Vs his pass completion. He is ineffective defensively and gives us nothing going forward... He offers us nothing and it's a joke that he plays ahead of Yacob and Krychowiak.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: adamw1109 on December 31, 2017, 09:28:58 PM
Jake Livermore was absolutely atrocious, again. I'd live to see the stats for how often he gave the ball away Vs his pass completion. He is ineffective defensively and gives us nothing going forward... He offers us nothing and it's a joke that he plays ahead of Yacob and Krychowiak.

This season...

Mins: 1671
Assists: 1
Key passes per game: 0.6
Average passes per game: 33.8
Pass success percentage: 77.4%
Long balls per game: 1.9
Through balls per game: 0.1

Thats some of his stats... clearly nowhere near good enough for a team trying to get out of the relegation places.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on December 31, 2017, 09:33:04 PM
Thought he had a decent game tonight.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on December 31, 2017, 09:45:01 PM
he was his useless self again today well at least he`s consistant ::)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Marcus on December 31, 2017, 10:06:15 PM
I still cant work out what he does. Another Gardner for me, and at least Gardner could take a free kick.
His brain always seems to be a second or so behind the game,as though he's having to think about how to be a footballer. It certainly doesn't seem to come naturally to him.

He just doesn't look comfortable with the ball and treats it a bit like a hot potato.

Maybe it's a confidence thing. I'd certainly like to see Field take his place for a couple of games at least.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Sted1990 on December 31, 2017, 10:51:49 PM
Much better last 40 minutes but still should be replaced by Greg or field
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on December 31, 2017, 10:55:26 PM
There was a few times in the game today where he had a fair bit of space on the half way line, he went forward and got confused turned back on himself and then passed sideways instead of driving forward and creating something.

Attacking wise he offers nothing, literally nothing and defensively he's not much better. He's a plodder, and how he gets in England squad is a farce.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on December 31, 2017, 11:32:45 PM
I thought HRK & J Rod were taking an age to get back on side today. In Livermores' defence, I could see why he couldn't play the ball forward.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albertbaggie on January 01, 2018, 12:38:03 AM
Good game today Jake, much better 8.10pm and no-one on yet to run him down.
Thought he had a decent game too
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on January 01, 2018, 12:44:27 AM
Jake Livermore was absolutely atrocious, again. I'd live to see the stats for how often he gave the ball away Vs his pass completion. He is ineffective defensively and gives us nothing going forward... He offers us nothing and it's a joke that he plays ahead of Yacob and Krychowiak.
No it's not a joke...they couldn't cover the same ground and last 90 minutes and would have similar problems in finding a forward pass. Saying that I think we need fresh legs against West Ham due to the 2 day turn around.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 01, 2018, 12:49:56 AM
No it's not a joke...they couldn't cover the same ground and last 90 minutes and would have similar problems in finding a forward pass. Saying that I think we need fresh legs against West Ham due to the 2 day turn around.


Can't agree. Doesn't matter how much ground he covers, his ability in possession of a football is zero. Barry for example covered more ground than anyone today, doesn't make him super fit he's 36. Neither Krychowiak or Yacob are a concern in covering ground. Yacob is better defensively than Livermore, Krychowiak better on the ball. There is no logical reason the lad keeps getting picked, or any logical reason for it to continue. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 01, 2018, 06:04:54 AM

Have a read of the various match threads he was woeful again. People just haven't got the energy to repeat the obvious ad nauseum.
Don't need to read the match threads Jacko, I was there, I saw what I saw. I watch each game with no pre-conceived ideas of any of our players and I judge them on what I see with my own eyes. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 01, 2018, 07:21:54 AM
Don't need to read the match threads Jacko, I was there, I saw what I saw. I watch each game with no pre-conceived ideas of any of our players and I judge them on what I see with my own eyes.
Sounds good to me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on January 01, 2018, 09:20:43 AM
Livermore is not a box to box midfielder he is one of 5 quite different players who are probably happiest being the most deep sitting Central Midfielder. Yesterday he covered more ground than Barry and as such that was his role. I have a certain amount sympathy with all of our midfielders as our movement is still not exactly fluid. I also think that some players are starting to hide from the ball and as such picking passes forward or otherwise is not as easy as at it would be if they were playing in a functioning team.

Like it or not Livermore might be the least bad option which is why he is getting game time, Krychowiak might be a better option but the harsh reality is that there is nothing in his Albion performances to date to suggest it. The rest are really not the a Box to Box midfielder at all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: charlebaggie on January 01, 2018, 10:15:44 AM
Good game today Jake, much better 8.10pm and no-one on yet to run him down.
.  I agree with you . Not for one minute do I think he's a world beater,but I do think he puts a shift in . There's alway a scape goat and with our present situation unfortunately it's him
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 01, 2018, 12:36:26 PM
Don't think he was as bad as some make out,he's never going to be a box to box midfielder yet he looks better when he plays for England strangely.one thing I will say is that he gives is all it may not be the quality we'd like but he's not the only one in the team who's short of quality.would prefer Field in the role Livermore takes but I think Pardew is going for experience.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 01, 2018, 02:28:12 PM
.  I agree with you . Not for one minute do I think he's a world beater,but I do think he puts a shift in . There's alway a scape goat and with our present situation unfortunately it's him

Very much agreed, thought he had a decent game.
Distribution could have been better at times especially as the game entered the latter stages.
But I thought he put in a good shift yesterday.

Some think Rondon should be called Rondont.
Others that Livermore should change his name to Liverless.
Personally think Jake comes in for far too much stick.
Does the dirty work well.

My only real criticism of him of late would be the side ways pass the other day when through on goal.
No excuses there, he bottled it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 01, 2018, 02:34:13 PM
Can't criticise Jake, personally. It's not his fault he isn't a particularly good footballer, he works hard, but he has no ability on the ball whatsoever. My issue is with those who continue to pick him despite his lack of ability.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SirTonyM on January 01, 2018, 03:11:28 PM
Thought he ok yesterday. Lots of people have mentioned it but our central midfield suffers because everyone is a similar type of player. They are solid, hard working but one paced. Also Livermore cost us 10 million! Barry and Yacob were free, Fields a youngster and Greg is on loan. So I would expect more and he hasn’t really delivered.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 01, 2018, 03:44:46 PM
Livermore is Mr Average. Bit of a passenger most of the time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on January 01, 2018, 09:38:10 PM
Livermore is a steady player, better at closing down opponents and keeping possession than setting up goal chances or assists. But you don't need too many players like that. Yacob is a ball winner and man marker, but I struggle to think of him setting up any goal chances or assists. Also, Livermore has slightly more chance of scoring than Yacob, so on balance Livermore is the better option in most matches.   
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 01, 2018, 10:03:57 PM
Has Livermore scored a goal for us?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 01, 2018, 10:12:37 PM
Has Livermore scored a goal for us?

No, most he has ever scored in a season in the Prem is 3 when he was on loan at Hull in 2013/14. He's scored 12 goals in 286 games over his career.

Safe to say that goal scoring isn't a big part of his game.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on January 01, 2018, 10:13:18 PM
Has Livermore scored a goal for us?

Without trawling through his records for their previous clubs, I'm fairly certain Livermore will have scored more often than Yacob. I like Yacob for what he does, but let's not kid ourselves, he neither sets up goals nor scores goals. All I'm saying is that if scoring goals is our number 1 problem, which the manager and everyone agrees on, playing Yacob instead of Livermore is not going to solve that problem.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 01, 2018, 11:49:46 PM
Without trawling through his records for their previous clubs, I'm fairly certain Livermore will have scored more often than Yacob. I like Yacob for what he does, but let's not kid ourselves, he neither sets up goals nor scores goals. All I'm saying is that if scoring goals is our number 1 problem, which the manager and everyone agrees on, playing Yacob instead of Livermore is not going to solve that problem.

Neither Yacob or Livermore have any goals in them but at least Yacob is effective defensively to win the ball back.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sammyg on January 02, 2018, 12:09:06 AM
Neither Yacob or Livermore have any goals in them but at least Yacob is effective defensively to win the ball back.
Yacob has scored a goal this season for us
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 02, 2018, 12:10:56 AM
Despite numerous attempts no one has been able to justify Livermore getting selected continually.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 02, 2018, 08:53:04 AM
Another Gardner for me, runs about a lot pointing, but never puts himself in the thick of it, always on the periphery.
There was a point on Sunday where he had a perfect give and go but he gave and didn't go. Does it all too often, it's like he's scared of making a mistake so doesn't bother taking any risks.
Looks industrious and covers a lot of ground but most of it is away from the ball! Doesn't have the confidence or the nuts to control the midfield and so, is not what we need in a relegation battle.
Field has been excellent this season so is baffling how this bloke keeps him out, same goes for Yacob.
Pardew needs to wise up. He may not have an abundance of talent at his disposal but he has to use what he has a lot better.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on January 02, 2018, 08:02:21 PM
Despite numerous attempts no one has been able to justify Livermore getting selected continually.
Well a couple of us have said that it's because he has a better engine and is more dynamic (it's all relative) than Greg and Yacob....which is needed from whoever plays alongside Barry.  You may not agree with this judgement but that doesn't necessarily make it wrong.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 02, 2018, 08:06:06 PM
Well a couple of us have said that it's because he has a better engine and is more dynamic (it's all relative) than Greg and Yacob....which is needed from whoever plays alongside Barry.  You may not agree with this judgement but that doesn't necessarily make it wrong.


There is nothing dynamic about him. Engine is negligible with the other two equally able to put in the hard yards.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on January 02, 2018, 09:05:34 PM

There is nothing dynamic about him. Engine is negligible with the other two equally able to put in the hard yards.
Opinions...line 'em up for a series of 'sprints' box to box and I know who my money's on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Scooby Doo on January 02, 2018, 10:07:21 PM
Thought West Ham got little joy down their left hand side when he was in front of Dawson.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 02, 2018, 10:10:47 PM
Thought West Ham got little joy down their left hand side when he was in front of Dawson.

Yep, that side was quiet until HRK came on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 02, 2018, 11:12:15 PM
Imagine he'll get in some trouble for his altercation in the stand tonight. You know it's bad when players start kicking off with fans
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gavinrussell on January 02, 2018, 11:18:08 PM
Hearing rumours on twitter that a fan goaded him about his son dying..
If true it's no wonder he reacted...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on January 02, 2018, 11:24:19 PM
Hearing rumours on twitter that a fan goaded him about his son dying..
If true it's no wonder he reacted...

If thats the case, and I've read the same, then he absolutely cannot be banned by the FA, and instead they should ban swathes of the West Ham fans until they identify the culprit. In the end its a sport and some coward goading someone else's personal tragedy is absolutely disgusting
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on January 03, 2018, 08:41:11 AM
He gets dogs abuse on here.
I'm not one of them.
What I will say is that anyone who has been through what he and his family have deserve a bit of sympathy.
He's had the loss of a child,imagine the pain.
He then suffered drink and drug abuse and self medicating,that is such a difficult experience to come out of.
He will have been tortured in his mind,he will probably still be receiving some sort of rehabilitation and counselling,just to live a so called normal life.
Then he still has to deal with any " triggers" that will affect him.
All the above means that he should be congratulated and encouraged more than is usual,I'm sure he will be getting help from our medical staff in fact it shows his mental strength and charector to even attempt to get out of it.
I hope we have more to come from this player for me good luck to him and his family and I hope we will see some fighting displays from him because his story I suspect is not over yet.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BigFrank20 on January 03, 2018, 08:41:16 AM
Found this on KUMB

So seeing as I was sitting right next to the away dugout it was a very strange situation.
Livermore comes off and as he goes to sit down a West Ham supporter shouts out something like “you’re s**t Jake why don’t you find another reason to do a line”. Now that’s not word for word but it was along those lines.
Livermore at first smirked but slowly moved along past all his team mates and jumped the barrier. The stewards and West Brom coach acted fast and dragged him down the stairs and eventually away to the tunnel.
He was a man full of anger as the banter actually had a nasty edge to it once you realise what the fan implied.
Livermore turned to Charlie after the death of his son and so for the supporter to say what he said was below the belt.
Have to say the stewards did well to sort it out and ask a few fans to leave their seats to question them. Once it calmed down the stewards worked out who said it and he was removed.
Was later seen being questioned by the police.
So the bloke may end up banned and Livermore may end up suspended.
As for the West Brom coach with the bald head if it wasn’t for him Livermore would have got to the bloke and god knows what would have happened
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gavinrussell on January 03, 2018, 09:29:57 AM
He gets dogs abuse on here.
I'm not one of them.
What I will say is that anyone who has been through what he and his family have deserve a bit of sympathy.
He's had the loss of a child,imagine the pain.
He then suffered drink and drug abuse and self medicating,that is such a difficult experience to come out of.
He will have been tortured in his mind,he will probably still be receiving some sort of rehabilitation and counselling,just to live a so called normal life.
Then he still has to deal with any " triggers" that will affect him.
All the above means that he should be congratulated and encouraged more than is usual,I'm sure he will be getting help from our medical staff in fact it shows his mental strength and charector to even attempt to get out of it.
I hope we have more to come from this player for me good luck to him and his family and I hope we will see some fighting displays from him because his story I suspect is not over yet.
Well said..we all have our favorites at the club and those that we aren't keen on..but some of the stick he gets on here is beyond constructive. .when all is said he plays for us and tries his best..
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on January 03, 2018, 09:33:47 AM
Not sure why we bought Livermore never rated him, but that said if he was taunted about loosing his son then the fact that he went for the scumbag that said that is more than understandable.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on January 03, 2018, 09:34:28 AM
I don't think he brings enough to justify a place ahead of Greg, Yacob, Field or Barry. However i wouldn't mind seeing him tried in a 3 man defence a la Hull. Gibbs is poor defensively so a wing back system may work better. Just an idea to discuss
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sammyg on January 03, 2018, 09:35:45 AM
Should all get behind him next game and show him support, even though he hasn't been very good this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on January 03, 2018, 03:26:15 PM
Club Statement on the Incident from last night:

https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/january/club-statement-jake-livermore/ (https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/january/club-statement-jake-livermore/)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kirk on January 03, 2018, 03:37:30 PM
I also wonder why their coach lost it on the touch line as well, he was having to be held back from either big Dave or Pardew
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: andibaggy on January 03, 2018, 09:53:22 PM
Why aren’t we screaming out in support?

On field is one thing, the lad has allegedly had some very bad abuse and we should have his back.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WorcsWBA on January 03, 2018, 10:14:13 PM
Why aren’t we screaming out in support?

On field is one thing, the lad has allegedly had some very bad abuse and we should have his back.
You're 100% correct. People might not be enamoured with his performances, but there are no shortage of managers who've found enough merits in his play to pick him, including his 6 appearances for England last year. Regardless of that though, he deserves moral support from all Albion fans over this incident.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 03, 2018, 10:21:38 PM
I don't see any Albion fans who are not supporting him over the incident  :-X
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WorcsWBA on January 03, 2018, 10:32:34 PM
I don't see any Albion fans who are not supporting him over the incident  :-X
The number of supportive posts over the incident is miniscule compared to those which slag off his performances.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on January 03, 2018, 10:42:40 PM
Hey worcs,football isn't everything sometimes you know mate.
Life and family are far more important,don't you think?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WorcsWBA on January 03, 2018, 11:09:25 PM
Hey worcs,football isn't everything sometimes you know mate.
Life and family are far more important,don't you think?
Indeed, but I'm not sure what that's got to do with my posts in this thread today?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 04, 2018, 12:18:33 AM
The number of supportive posts over the incident is miniscule compared to those which slag off his performances.
Two totally different subjects

People have a general right to say what their opinion is on his footballing application.

No one should be able to give out the "alleged" abuse he was targeted with yesterday, if it is as reported the person should face the full force of the law


But not one person should change their views on him as a footballer based on yesterdays incident either.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 04, 2018, 12:30:41 AM
There is a bit more to this as Livermore's version of events is different to the fan and witnesses including stewards. Claims he spoke about substance abuse not the death of the child. Though in Livermore's case the two are linked.


Either way a nasty aside and both parties will end up being punished.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on January 04, 2018, 09:30:01 AM
What happened off the pitch was very harsh on him and the fan must be punished because they've crossed a line.

On the pitch i'd like to see him benched. He's lacked quality we need and loses the ball a lot, it ultimately puts us under more pressure and stops our pressure on other team. We need a sitting two of Yacob with any 1 of Krychowiak, Barry or Field.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on January 04, 2018, 09:35:40 AM
What happened off the pitch was very harsh on him and the fan must be punished because they've crossed a line.

On the pitch i'd like to see him benched. He's lacked quality we need and loses the ball a lot, it ultimately puts us under more pressure and stops our pressure on other team. We need a sitting two of Yacob with any 1 of Krychowiak, Barry or Field.
It's the lack of balance again though....why do we need a sitting two ? If we only play with 2 CMs at least one of them has to attempt to be in the box to box mold.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gavinrussell on January 04, 2018, 09:36:17 AM
Would be amazed if he gets a ban...there is always plenty of provocation from fans some good natured and some not and the players brush it off as part of the game...but this crossed the line..the so called fan knew exactly what he was saying and the double meaning it implied...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 04, 2018, 09:47:35 AM
It's the lack of balance again though....why do we need a sitting two ? If we only play with 2 CMs at least one of them has to attempt to be in the box to box mold.

There's no point in having a midfielder in to do the box to box shift when that midfielder is completely ineffective when he makes it anywhere near the opponents box.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on January 04, 2018, 10:11:12 AM
There is a bit more to this as Livermore's version of events is different to the fan and witnesses including stewards. Claims he spoke about substance abuse not the death of the child. Though in Livermore's case the two are linked.


Either way a nasty aside and both parties will end up being punished.

I think the key is "getting another excuse" for drug abuse. The implication being that his kids death was "an excuse".
Its also worth noting that the reaction from Jake was delayed he must have been simmering as he digested the "comment" and in my opinion quite justifiably "lost it".
We can never condone players going after fans, BUT, these were extremely extenuating circumstances and I hope the Premier League / FA see it as such.
As for the low life, he should get a life time ban IMO.

Well done to the club for the statement BTW.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on January 04, 2018, 10:29:20 AM
There is a bit more to this as Livermore's version of events is different to the fan and witnesses including stewards. Claims he spoke about substance abuse not the death of the child. Though in Livermore's case the two are linked.


Either way a nasty aside and both parties will end up being punished.
You just can't help yourself! Still gt to get a dig in and still want him banned, what would you have done if it was you? I know what I'd have done
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on January 04, 2018, 10:43:20 AM
You just can't help yourself! Still gt to get a dig in and still want him banned, what would you have done if it was you? I know what I'd have done

What Jacko has said is fine. I think we all back Jake but players can't go into the crowd.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 04, 2018, 11:09:53 AM
From reports of other fans nearby there was a fair bit of abuse to do with drugs aimed at Jake and he just laughed that off.  It was obviously something about his kid that made him cross the line and of course the fan will say he was misheard, a lot like the guy who insisted he said "Have at you Mr Cantona!"
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on January 04, 2018, 12:39:56 PM
If he laughed off the abuse aimed at him about drug abuse,I say well done to him,its not funny and is a very difficult thing to shake off.as I said earlier something's do trigger memories good and bad,it was a natural reaction by our player considering his sad past.
Just goes to show how some people stoop so low to attack a players loss.
The perp must serve a lifetime ban.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on January 04, 2018, 03:24:17 PM
You can't normally condone any player going into the crowd, but the abuse this time was well below what could be classed as normal fans' "banter", and so Livermore's reaction was understandable. I hope he doesn't let it affect him further.   
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on January 04, 2018, 03:44:49 PM
I would like to think that the majority of our fans and club support will spur him on
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on January 05, 2018, 08:03:39 AM
Is the cup match an opportunity to try him at cb with Dawson out?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: adamw1109 on January 05, 2018, 09:36:23 AM
What Jacko has said is fine. I think we all back Jake but players can't go into the crowd.

There should be no but about it if the mentioning of his sons death is true.... The low life scumbag deserves his head being kicked in.... at the very least.

Regardless how poor a player has been, some lines you just don't cross.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 05, 2018, 09:51:49 AM
Is the cup match an opportunity to try him at cb with Dawson out?
Not for me. A CH needs to command his area and take responsibility, can't get away with pointing at others to do it.
Needs a rest.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 05, 2018, 10:06:49 AM
Either way a nasty aside and both parties will end up being punished.

FA have confirmed no action against Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gavinrussell on January 05, 2018, 10:40:35 AM
FA have confirmed no action against Livermore.
Common sense has prevailed..
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on January 05, 2018, 04:16:10 PM
Common sense has prevailed..

Well some good news for a change ! well done the FA (for once)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on January 10, 2018, 03:23:20 PM
I note that quite rightly Jake has not been charged for his croude infringement.
I wonder what happened to the scumbag,anyone know?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WoysWunderful on January 10, 2018, 03:43:00 PM
I note that quite rightly Jake has not been charged for his croude infringement.
I wonder what happened to the scumbag,anyone know?

Said at the time he'd been arrested and banned by west ham. dunno if its gone any further?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 10, 2018, 06:54:59 PM
Said at the time he'd been arrested and banned by west ham. dunno if its gone any further?

The quotes from the FA say that they are satisfied with West Ham's dealing with the issue, saying they've identified and intend to ban the fan. It's confirmed that the idiot mentioned something about Jake's son.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on January 12, 2018, 03:27:15 PM
West ham have confirmed that they've issued an indefinite ban to the supporter now.

Jake Livermore: West Ham ban fan over Jake Livermore altercation - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/42667472
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: vrabbit on January 12, 2018, 09:57:25 PM
I'm glad Jake was not punished, that being said his constant presence in the lineups is still baffling. He's not great at anything, he's pretty good on defensive duties but not as good as Yacob, and he doesn't offer much going forward. His greatest attribute is his ability to play a full game but that doesn't mean much if he doesn't contribute a whole lot when he's on the pitch. I believe he has played the most minutes in the PL for us this season after Hegazi and Foster.

It's time to give someone else a chance in midfield. Barry is almost as good defensively and offers better help to those in front of him. Krychowiak may have not shown the consistency I'd expected from him but even if he isn't in top form he hasn't been worse than Livermore and he's a better all-around player than Jake is. I'd go with either Barry or The Pole next to Yacob and leave Livermore as an option off the bench.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on February 18, 2018, 01:58:24 PM
He joins us. He gets into the England squad. He tries to do a Cantona and smash a fan. We stand firmly and very publically behind him. He goes out, breaks a club curfew, gets hammered and ends up in a stole taxi.

He can leave the club now as far as I'm concerned. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 18, 2018, 02:02:10 PM
He joins us. He gets into the England squad. He tries to do a Cantona and smash a fan. We stand firmly and very publically behind him. He goes out, breaks a club curfew, gets hammered and ends up in a stole taxi.

He can leave the club now as far as I'm concerned.
By what mode of transport?

It's a difficult one, most of these players could actually be semi decent at prem level, in the champ, McLean,Livermore,Gibbs Phillips should be smashing it....
So do we cut our nose off?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on February 18, 2018, 02:05:56 PM
By what mode of transport?

It's a difficult one, most of these players could actually be semi decent at prem level, in the champ, McLean,Livermore,Gibbs Phillips should be smashing it....
So do we cut our nose off?

He will want to leave when we get relegated either way regardless. To do what he did, after we gave him so much support is inexcusable.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: 17GD on February 18, 2018, 02:15:26 PM
He will want to leave when we get relegated either way regardless. To do what he did, after we gave him so much support is inexcusable.

I totally agree. The only thing I would say is that the majority of footballers don't care about the fans or their support. It's their job to play football, they are mercenaries. Think of the abuse footballers get when they play away from home, it generally doesn't make that much difference to their performance.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 18, 2018, 04:31:39 PM
I personally am hoping that someone like Sean Dyche is silly enough to buy him in the summer.

An awful footballer and one I would be happy to see the back of.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on February 18, 2018, 04:54:10 PM
I personally am hoping that someone like Sean Dyche is silly enough to buy him in the summer.

An awful footballer and one I would be happy to see the back of.

I actually think he's a better footballer than he has been allowed to show, but when he got such great support from the club after West Ham, to throw it back at us as he did is massively disrespectful.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 18, 2018, 07:51:50 PM
He's on too much money for us and wages could be better spent elsewhere. 
Has had some very bad stuff in his personal life which club and fans have offered great support and then he has acted like this.
If found guilty by internal investigation i wouldn't be bothered if the club sacked
Him- gets him off wages regardless of league we are in
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on February 18, 2018, 08:07:44 PM
can not remember a game he`s played well for us, needs to be moved on in summer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 24, 2018, 11:41:30 PM
Lost count how many times Livermore lost the ball today.
Whilst there is a mass exodus in summer I bet we get stuck with this clown
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on February 25, 2018, 12:16:56 AM
Lost count how many times Livermore lost the ball today.
Whilst there is a mass exodus in summer I bet we get stuck with this clown

Was going to say the opposite, I didn't really see what he did (if anything) once coming on. Actually think it was a really poor management decision by Pardew bringing him on for Barry when he did. It was obvious Barry was going to get pelters (I'd have taken him off at half time and stopped all of that), and then he brought on Livermore who offers nothing different whatsoever to Barry (although saying that we had nothing else on the bench whatsoever)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on April 09, 2018, 09:46:20 AM
Not all bad news, it appears the deluded ones have shown an interest in him for next season.

https://www.sportsmole.co.uk/football/aston-villa/transfer-talk/news/villa-keeping-tabs-on-jake-livermore_323003.html
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Signor_Maresca on April 09, 2018, 12:41:16 PM
Please let him have a release clause.  He is woeful, I don't see what anyone sees in him, £10million and £50,000 a week.  Thanks Pulis.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on April 09, 2018, 01:04:41 PM
Please let him have a release clause.  He is woeful, I don't see what anyone sees in him, £10million and £50,000 a week.  Thanks Pulis.

If you think "England International Livermore" is woeful just wait until we're scrambling around for midtable championship players.  Like it or not, he'll be better than most of the Championship next season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on April 09, 2018, 01:11:37 PM
If you think "England International Livermore" is woeful just wait until we're scrambling around for midtable championship players.  Like it or not, he'll be better than most of the Championship next season.

I actually don't think he will be, which is a concern.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on April 09, 2018, 01:32:54 PM
There are probably one or two players in all positions at mid table Championship clubs that would improve us. Fulham are not mid table now but Tom Cairney has been there 3 years. It's not going to happen but him playing AM for us would transform us. Hopefully we are scouting far and wide for at least one new AM signing this summer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on April 10, 2018, 02:08:22 PM
I actually don't think he will be, which is a concern.

I think if you look at things from a neutral point of view then it's pretty clear Livermore would be a cut above next season.  I can't see many clubs in the Championship who would say no to him and I imagine he'll get offers from newly promoted \sides who just survived.

But let's say you're right, and players like Livermore, McClean, etc aren't good enough for the Championship...  Considering our approach to transfers, the money we'll have available, etc, do you really think we'll be buying players who are comfortably better than those?  Based on what?

The problem is expectations and whether as fans we'll realign them.  We expect more from McClean\Livermore because we are were a Premiership side.  If you put those two players into a side that's in League 1 the fans will rave about them.  Our fans appear to be way more 'scapegoaty' than we used to be so even if they stuck around I don't see things changing for them.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mister AT on April 15, 2018, 10:04:31 PM
Thought he had a decent game today. Broke up play when he could, kept running and always tried to move us up the pitch.

Better performance than what we’ve been used to.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on April 16, 2018, 12:59:36 PM
Thought he had a decent game today. Broke up play when he could, kept running and always tried to move us up the pitch.

Better performance than what we’ve been used to.

Looking at the last two games, he probably has improved. He doesn't really excel at any one thing, but he's been playing what is probably a more natural role rather than just holding, and it's obvious he's got the engine.

I still wouldn't be disappointed to see him go this summer though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Backofthenet on April 16, 2018, 01:19:58 PM
I wouldn't be sorry to see him go. It's odd how some of the more disappointing 'stars' are now beginning to perform. Is it a shop window chance or guilt feeling?
Personally there's quite a few who we will be better of without and we are well overdue a cull to this squad.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on April 16, 2018, 01:32:55 PM
I think we need to replace him for a more creative, quicker player.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 16, 2018, 01:33:41 PM
I wouldn't be sorry to see him go. It's odd how some of the more disappointing 'stars' are now beginning to perform. Is it a shop window chance or guilt feeling?
Personally there's quite a few who we will be better of without and we are well overdue a cull to this squad.

Or is it the fact that they are now being allowed to play football? Looking on this site generally, a few players are showing signs of improvement over the past couple of games, Rodriguez and McLean for example.

Its a pity Jake didnt hit that shot with a bit more conviction when he was through yesterday, we might have been having a different conversation.....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Signor_Maresca on April 16, 2018, 03:49:39 PM
If you think "England International Livermore" is woeful just wait until we're scrambling around for midtable championship players.  Like it or not, he'll be better than most of the Championship next season.
Probably won't cost £10 million and be costing £55k a week in wages though..
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 19, 2018, 08:34:43 AM
Probably won't cost £10 million and be costing £55k a week in wages though..

Livermore won't be on that next season with us either as he will either have a release clause or more likely a flex down wage. Personally I think he will stay as he played for a season in the Championship with Hull and doesn't strike me as the kind of player to jump ship.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on April 19, 2018, 08:52:12 AM
Livermore won't be on that next season with us either as he will either have a release clause or more likely a flex down wage. Personally I think he will stay as he played for a season in the Championship with Hull and doesn't strike me as the kind of player to jump ship.
Then he should be made to walk the plank!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 01, 2018, 03:03:21 PM
Jake Livermore nominee for PL Player of the Month.

Well Done Jake!!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on May 01, 2018, 03:13:23 PM
Jake Livermore nominee for PL Player of the Month.

Well Done Jake!!
WTF. Is it April fools day? Jake's done Ok last few matches but come on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: miggybaggy on May 01, 2018, 03:36:49 PM
Jake Livermore nominee for PL Player of the Month.

Well Done Jake!!

What?! If it was going to be an Albion player it should surely be Foster? He's saved 3 - 4 certain goals in the last couple of matches.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 01, 2018, 04:08:43 PM
Jake Livermore nominee for PL Player of the Month.

Well Done Jake!!


Incredible. What do these people see...?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on May 01, 2018, 06:23:57 PM
His sudden improvement in form is going to plan.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on May 01, 2018, 06:52:55 PM
I must say, his performances have improved...but it wasn’t a high threshold to begin with. He still hasn’t been ‘good’, just better than he was, which was awful
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on May 01, 2018, 10:37:54 PM
He's possibly the most over-hyped Albion player I've ever seen. Only 5 years ago or so we were moaning about being under-looked with players like Mulumbu and Foster going unseen by pundits etc.
Now Livermore comes along and gets in the England squad, gets nominated for the player of the month etc. I don't get it - he's incredibly average and hopefully it means his transfer fee will be massive. I would sell in the summer and imagine it would be over £15 million which is crazy.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on May 02, 2018, 09:21:07 AM
Can't see any justification for this whatsoever. Yes he's improved, but not on this scale. (he's only managed one 7+ rating on Sun DT in last 4 games)
With 3 goals conceded in 4 games and 2 clean sheets, if anyone, it would have to Foster, Dawson or Hegazi.
Don't get me wrong, he's still an Albion player so i want him to win, it just shows how out of touch the decision makers are. Seems they've just gone:
"WBA have had a bit of a resurgence, who plays for them again? Oh yes Livermore, he plays for England so must be the catalyst, let's stick him in for player of the Month"
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on May 02, 2018, 12:49:02 PM
Brunt, Foster, Dawson, Rodriguez, Rondon, even McClean and Phillips have had a more positive impact over the last few games. He's improved, but to nominate him over that lot? I don't get it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Signor_Maresca on May 02, 2018, 04:17:12 PM
He is still a useless lump, marginally better recently but not even in our top 5 performers over the last 4 games.  Hopefully the recognition he is getting will alert some half soaked manager to bid for him come the summer. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: HampshireBaggie on May 07, 2018, 09:43:10 AM
Anyone starting to feel some affinity towards the bloke considering the criticism he's quite rightly received this season?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BB74 on May 07, 2018, 09:44:58 AM
He’s got a right pair or pearly whites on him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on May 07, 2018, 09:54:40 AM
Just like the rest of the team he's found some form, and he's still criticised. 

What was this talk about loyalty again?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 07, 2018, 02:49:40 PM
Turned up for 4 games after it's virtually too late, to put himself in the shop window nothing more nothing less, part of taxi-gate (which never gets mentioned), a totally disingenuous person, that has used personal tragedy to his advantage on more than one occasion.


Sorry if it's not the party line.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 07, 2018, 03:02:01 PM
Jake is not a "top" Premier League player nor is he of International quality, just a bit too one paced for all of that.

He has been nominated for April's player of the month, to the amazement of many of our fans, but in April, under the coaching of Darren Moore (and after Taxigate) his attacking performance scores have improved, in 4 games, from 73.15 to 125.51 (a score increase of 52.36 or 71.57%) and I daresay it is this that has brought him to the attention of those making the nominations.
 
I do like him, he may not always be high profile in games, but I don't consider that he hides either. He is an honest, wholehearted type of player and does a lot of work off the ball that goes unnoticed and I would be absolutely fine about him playing for us next season.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Nathan on May 07, 2018, 03:10:09 PM
Turned up for 4 games after it's virtually too late, to put himself in the shop window nothing more nothing less, part of taxi-gate (which never gets mentioned), a totally disingenuous person, that has used personal tragedy to his advantage on more than one occasion.


Sorry if it's not the party line.

Bang on the money with all of that Jacko, those are exactly my thoughts on Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ex coseley kid on May 07, 2018, 03:15:04 PM
Turned up for 4 games after it's virtually too late, to put himself in the shop window nothing more nothing less, part of taxi-gate (which never gets mentioned), a totally disingenuous person, that has used personal tragedy to his advantage on more than one occasion.


Sorry if it's not the party line.

I partly agree but it's a shame that as fans we are not coming together as the club seems to be. Regardless of all that's gone before, that $#1Ts happened now. We're knocking out a top six performance right now let's hope that continues to the last game, even if we're down.

He's just scored two for us in this run and you can blame Pulis and Pardew for their lack of man management for that. Livermore will be gone next season. there's only forward.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on May 07, 2018, 04:51:29 PM
Turned up for 4 games after it's virtually too late, to put himself in the shop window nothing more nothing less, part of taxi-gate (which never gets mentioned), a totally disingenuous person, that has used personal tragedy to his advantage on more than one occasion.


Sorry if it's not the party line.

When?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 07, 2018, 04:53:11 PM
ESPN FC's global editorial desks nominate their top weekend performers.

This week's No. 1 scored a vital winner to boost his club's unlikely bid to avoid relegation.

1. Jake Livermore | West Brom
Why he's here: After going 30 game without a Premier League goal, Livermore has two in his last three. The latest was a last-minute strike to beat Tottenham.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gavinrussell on May 11, 2018, 11:46:12 AM
Wonder whether his improved performances over the last few games will see him selected in Southgates 23 ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gavinrussell on May 16, 2018, 02:12:38 PM
Made the standby list...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 16, 2018, 02:15:38 PM
Jake Livermore misses out on the World Cup Squad.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: NathWBA on May 16, 2018, 02:53:51 PM
Feel for him abit, played a prominent role in the England squad the last 12months and ended this season well, I’d imagine he’s very disappointed to miss out
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: koren on May 16, 2018, 02:56:29 PM
Alexander-Arnold and Rose in but Livermore out lol
Big clubs's players always have advantages...
Feel sorry for him, he should be included as holding midfielder role backup at least.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on May 16, 2018, 03:01:16 PM
He's garbage. Right call.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on May 16, 2018, 03:15:21 PM
Hey jacko, no need for that comment is there?
Perhaps you should choose your words a bit more carefully.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on May 16, 2018, 03:21:51 PM
Any player wearing an Albion shirt who is on standby, is selected for, plays for his country, makes me feel proud, regardless
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: don1thedon on May 16, 2018, 03:27:09 PM
Any player wearing an Albion shirt who is on standby, is selected for, plays for his country, makes me feel proud, regardless
I'm with you 100%.
A bit unlucky to miss out, but in fairness, each of the midfielders GS has picked probably offers a bit more than Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on May 16, 2018, 06:13:30 PM
Alexander-Arnold and Rose in but Livermore out lol
Big clubs's players always have advantages...
Feel sorry for him, he should be included as holding midfielder role backup at least.

Not really relevant - a right back and a left back haven't taken his place. Let's face it we've all been very surprised by his inclusions in the squad with how bad he's been palying
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on May 17, 2018, 12:46:56 PM
I do feel a little sympathy for him. He's been rubbish for ages, but has still been getting in ahead of better players. Now he's had an upturn in form, and he's dropped.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Signor_Maresca on May 17, 2018, 01:15:02 PM
Couldn't care less about Livermore not making the England squad.  He doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the stand by list let alone the full squad.  He has been utterly woeful all season and an up turn in form for the last 6 games when he is readying himself for the shop window and a potential world cup spot isn't going to make me change my opinion of him.  Awful signing, hope he is gone come August.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Signor_Maresca on May 17, 2018, 01:18:29 PM
Alexander-Arnold and Rose in but Livermore out lol
Big clubs's players always have advantages...
A right back who has been playing consistently well in the Champions League vs a plodder who has been woeful for 90% of the season in a team that finished rock bottom. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on May 17, 2018, 01:37:21 PM
Not sure that is the point though

Many have opinions on him, I don't think he's great.
But the issue here really,is that when he has been poor he has been in the squad, just after his best period all season, he's out....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie38 on May 17, 2018, 10:24:30 PM
He's garbage. Right call.

Where as I agree with you it's the right call not to take him. He has showed under Moore that he is not garbage. He definitely has something to work with and should do well in the championship.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on June 05, 2018, 06:40:08 PM
Palace are reported to be interested in signing him but valuations are a part but that's not the story :o Leicester offered 24 million last summer and were turned down  :-[
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbatillidie on June 05, 2018, 06:55:42 PM
Couldn't care less about Livermore not making the England squad.  He doesn't deserve to be anywhere near the stand by list let alone the full squad.  He has been utterly woeful all season and an up turn in form for the last 6 games when he is readying himself for the shop window and a potential world cup spot isn't going to make me change my opinion of him.  Awful signing, hope he is gone come August.

I agree with pretty much all of this, he has been consistently one of the worst players in the team for the majority of the season. He's an average player who would probably do a job in the championship but if we can't find a better player for the £15 million we would potentially sell him for then the scouts and Terraneo can go with him
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 05, 2018, 06:56:18 PM
Palace are reported to be interested in signing him but valuations are a part but that's not the story :o Leicester offered 24 million last summer and were turned down  :-[


Unfathomable IF true.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on June 05, 2018, 07:11:40 PM
Palace are reported to be interested in signing him but valuations are a part but that's not the story :o Leicester offered 24 million last summer and were turned down  :-[

Do you have a source for that?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Signor_Maresca on June 05, 2018, 07:28:36 PM
Do you have a source for that?

This was reported in the Birmingham Mail yesterday, I actually think it was a mistake and it was meant to say Jonny Evans (which figures) but I guess sloppy reporting comes hand in hand with the Mail these days.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sing on our own on June 05, 2018, 08:42:27 PM
Livermore is bang average who had a couple of good games at the end of the season trying to get in the WC squad and a move. Anyone who pays more than 10 million even by ridiculous modern fees has had their trousers pulled down.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tambag on August 09, 2018, 11:43:44 AM
Sky has just reported Watford are trying to sign Livermore on-loan with a view to permanent.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on August 09, 2018, 11:45:27 AM
Sky has just reported Watford are trying to sign Livermore on-loan with a view to permanent.


So according to reports Field and Livermore out. That leave us with a central midfield of Brunt and Barry. Anyone worried? lol
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mister AT on August 09, 2018, 11:45:36 AM
If the rumours of Livermore to Watford and Field to Rangers are true, that would leave us with Barry and Brunt in the middle  :o

SURELY we have to be close to bringing in 2 centre mids to even entertain the idea of the two above leaving??
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on August 09, 2018, 11:45:40 AM
Sky has just reported Watford are trying to sign Livermore on-loan with a view to permanent.
Please don't build my hopes up like that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Joust on August 09, 2018, 11:46:32 AM
If the rumours of Livermore to Watford and Field to Rangers are true, that would leave us with Barry and Brunt in the middle  :o

SURELY we have to be close to bringing in 2 centre mids to even entertain the idea of the two above leaving??

Harper and Morrison too
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: barnestormer on August 09, 2018, 11:46:43 AM
Sky has just reported Watford are trying to sign Livermore on-loan with a view to permanent.
Get it done quick
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on August 09, 2018, 11:48:27 AM
Someone wants Livermore??? Get him gone on a permanent only right now
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on August 09, 2018, 11:49:08 AM
Someone wants Livermore??? Get him gone on a permanent only right now


Pay them £5 million to take him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbako on August 09, 2018, 11:49:44 AM
Someone wants Livermore??? Get him gone on a permanent only right now

It does make you wonder if they have actually scouted him?? He has been utterly awful for us...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 09, 2018, 12:01:08 PM
Watford in for Livermore apparently


PLEASE HAPPEN
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 09, 2018, 12:02:43 PM
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE LET WATFORD WANTING LIVERMORE BE TRUE!!  :-X

Do they fancy taking on Brunty too? ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on August 09, 2018, 12:04:29 PM
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE LET WATFORD WANTING LIVERMORE BE TRUE!!  :-X

Do they fancy taking on Brunty too? ;)


i have never known such a q of folk wanting to drive him to his possible next destination, thats watford for the drop then
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on August 09, 2018, 12:09:04 PM
Livermore is a midfielder with a good engine who can move and play box to box. Decent game against Forest. Is nowhere near as bad as made out.

We would need a replacement.


Swear several on here would be happy with 2 non moving DM's
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbako on August 09, 2018, 12:27:00 PM
Livermore is a midfielder with a good engine who can move and play box to box. Decent game against Forest. Is nowhere near as bad as made out.

We would need a replacement.


Swear several on here would be happy with 2 non moving DM's

I profoundly disagree with your opinion.

Foe me, Livermore offers precious little in the centre of midfield. In possession, he is often wasteful and, therefore, he looks for a simple pass in situations which need a more positive approach. Furthermore, he gets caught in possession more than any other player I can remember for ages and regularly fails to provide an option to his teammates, often staying static in a central position. His reputation as a box-to-box midfielder is also unwarranted in my opinion. He has 2 goals to his name in over 50 games - both of which were from set-pieces. He also fails consistently to track runs of opposing midfielders, as seen in both games this season.

In my humble opinion, he is restricting us hugely - I would play both Barry and Field ahead of him in CM.

Just my two cents, mind.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on August 09, 2018, 12:29:44 PM
I profoundly disagree with your opinion.

Foe me, Livermore offers precious little in the centre of midfield. In possession, he is often wasteful and, therefore, he looks for a simple pass in situations which need a more positive approach. Furthermore, he gets caught in possession more than any other player I can remember for ages and regularly fails to provide an option to his teammates, often staying static in a central position. His reputation as a box-to-box midfielder is also unwarranted in my opinion. He has 2 goals to his name in over 50 games - both of which were from set-pieces. He also fails consistently to track runs of opposing midfielders, as seen in both games this season.

In my humble opinion, he is restricting us hugely - I would play both Barry and Field ahead of him in CM.

Just my two cents, mind.
Very surprised someone disagreed with me ! We'll continue this on the Livermore thread if he stays !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbako on August 09, 2018, 12:31:07 PM
Very surprised someone disagreed with me ! We'll continue this on the Livermore thread if he stays !

I hope this is the end of it in this case!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mister AT on August 09, 2018, 12:42:38 PM
Think the club are missing a trick here by not asking Watford to include Will Hughes in any deal for Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on August 09, 2018, 02:20:27 PM
If we have a guaranteed replacement then I would let him go, he is the most over-rated Albion player I've ever seen and offers nothing in attack or defense. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 09, 2018, 02:24:30 PM
If we have a guaranteed replacement then I would let him go, he is the most over-rated Albion player I've ever seen and offers nothing in attack or defense.

I think I would let him go regardless of replacement. He brings absolutely nothing to the side, you may as well have 10 men on the pitch with him playing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie38 on August 09, 2018, 02:25:13 PM
Don't let him go if we don't have a replacement lined up.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on August 09, 2018, 06:25:30 PM
Will say again, he's nowhere near as bad as people make out. He's now firmly in the camp of players who can have a decent game but because they give the ball away sloppily once and their stock is so low with supporters they are automatically 'absolute sh*te in the match'.


OK shouldn't be in the England squad but Southgate does have half a footballing brain and would not go near if he really was as bad as people make out.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 09, 2018, 07:02:11 PM
Will say again, he's nowhere near as bad as people make out. He's now firmly in the camp of players who can have a decent game but because they give the ball away sloppily once and their stock is so low with supporters they are automatically 'absolute sh*te in the match'.


OK shouldn't be in the England squad but Southgate does have half a footballing brain and would not go near if he really was as bad as people make out.


Wish he only gave it away once. Biggest disappointment of the window is this afternoon's rumour not panning out. WBAKO  appraisal was spot on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 09, 2018, 07:27:27 PM
I agree with Adder.  People are too quick to get on his back now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 09, 2018, 07:31:18 PM
Will say again, he's nowhere near as bad as people make out. He's now firmly in the camp of players who can have a decent game but because they give the ball away sloppily once and their stock is so low with supporters they are automatically 'absolute sh*te in the match'.


OK shouldn't be in the England squad but Southgate does have half a footballing brain and would not go near if he really was as bad as people make out.

No, he truly is as bad as people make out. Make no mistake about that
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 09, 2018, 07:54:36 PM
Going nowhere until January at least unless a foreign club come in so topic locked
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BaggieNick on August 09, 2018, 08:01:27 PM
He's never struck me as a 'bad' player just one that never seems to achieve or do anything of note on the football field.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on August 09, 2018, 08:03:07 PM
No, he truly is as bad as people make out. Make no mistake about that
The evidence of managers signing him, picking him and selecting him for England suggests he's maybe not truly as bad as people make out. Opinions we're all entitled to them.

He can keep going 90 minutes per game, doing a decent job game in game out without getting injured.....if he'd left today as people wished we'd have been struggling to find a fit mobile pair for the rest of the season....as it is we might struggle to find a fit, mobile player to play alongside him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bradleysrocket on August 09, 2018, 08:15:53 PM
It’s not Livermore for me that is the main issue. It’s always been the insistence in playing any number of others alongside him who also can’t drive forward or pick a pass.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 09, 2018, 08:29:16 PM
It’s not Livermore for me that is the main issue. It’s always been the insistence in playing any number of others alongside him who also can’t drive forward or pick a pass.


It's entirely Livermore, I knew he was limited when we signed him but expected him to at least be an improvement on the useless Craig Gardner, turns out he's got probably less ability than Craig and offers less of a goal threat.


Can only assume he's a good character.  :(
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on August 09, 2018, 08:35:07 PM
I really think he is awful.

Since signing in January 2 seasons back, we've dropped like a stone and I don't think it's a coincidence. We were 8th in the league when he came in, then we barely won for the remainder of the season, then we finished bottom - and now in the Championship we're still struggling.

I think he gets away with it because he's never a 1/10 player, because he's too cautious. Instead he's a solid 4 or 5/10 and is consistently poor, on a very good day he is average. He can't attack, nor can he defend. He's not 'box to box' because he does neither at either end, nor does he do much in the middle.
Instead, he plays scared football - playing balls back and sideways, getting his pass stats up to a nice level. When called upon to pass forward, he usually loses possession either in a slow build up or in a counter attack.
When shooting he is hopeless, and when against Forest he didn't close down Guediora quickly enough for the goal. He later cleared one off the line, but then again any player would if they were put on the post.
He's now played for 3 managers, played with various other players and hasn't done anything. Before he was at Hull, who were between the Championship and Premier League.

I think he's fooled a lot of people, not purposely of course - he seems a decent bloke. But he's not good enough and in my view is worse than Craig Gardner who cost substantially less and contributed more overall - yet he got dogs abuse. It's not like he's the only CM option we've ever had either, it's a common position - we shouldn't be scared as fans to be a bit more optimistic and look for an improvement.

I am yet to see a good argument as to why he warrants a starting place. Sometimes people say he's 'box to box' but Mulumbu was that, and he played a completely different game to Livermore. Mark my words, with him starting as a regular we will get nowhere near the play-offs, I wish I was wrong but I really do not rate him. Rant over.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 09, 2018, 08:41:25 PM
I really think he is awful.

Since signing in January 2 seasons back, we've dropped like a stone and I don't think it's a coincidence. We were 8th in the league when he came in, then we barely won for the remainder of the season, then we finished bottom - and now in the Championship we're still struggling.

I think he gets away with it because he's never a 1/10 player, because he's too cautious. Instead he's a solid 4 or 5/10 and is consistently poor, on a very good day he is average. He can't attack, nor can he defend. He's not 'box to box' because he does neither at either end, nor does he do much in the middle.
Instead, he plays scared football - playing balls back and sideways, getting his pass stats up to a nice level. When called upon to pass forward, he usually loses possession either in a slow build up or in a counter attack.
When shooting he is hopeless, and when against Forest he didn't close down Guediora quickly enough for the goal. He later cleared one off the line, but then again any player would if they were put on the post.
He's now played for 3 managers, played with various other players and hasn't done anything. Before he was at Hull, who were between the Championship and Premier League.

I think he's fooled a lot of people, not purposely of course - he seems a decent bloke. But he's not good enough and in my view is worse than Craig Gardner who cost substantially less and contributed more overall - yet he got dogs abuse. It's not like he's the only CM option we've ever had either, it's a common position - we shouldn't be scared as fans to be a bit more optimistic and look for an improvement.

I am yet to see a good argument as to why he warrants a starting place. Sometimes people say he's 'box to box' but Mulumbu was that, and he played a completely different game to Livermore. Mark my words, with him starting as a regular we will get nowhere near the play-offs, I wish I was wrong but I really do not rate him. Rant over.


Great post. Spot on, will be very difficult to dispute any of the points you raise.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BaggieBirdRus on August 09, 2018, 08:52:47 PM
I really think he is awful.

Since signing in January 2 seasons back, we've dropped like a stone and I don't think it's a coincidence. We were 8th in the league when he came in, then we barely won for the remainder of the season, then we finished bottom - and now in the Championship we're still struggling.

I think he gets away with it because he's never a 1/10 player, because he's too cautious. Instead he's a solid 4 or 5/10 and is consistently poor, on a very good day he is average. He can't attack, nor can he defend. He's not 'box to box' because he does neither at either end, nor does he do much in the middle.
Instead, he plays scared football - playing balls back and sideways, getting his pass stats up to a nice level. When called upon to pass forward, he usually loses possession either in a slow build up or in a counter attack.
When shooting he is hopeless, and when against Forest he didn't close down Guediora quickly enough for the goal. He later cleared one off the line, but then again any player would if they were put on the post.
He's now played for 3 managers, played with various other players and hasn't done anything. Before he was at Hull, who were between the Championship and Premier League.

I think he's fooled a lot of people, not purposely of course - he seems a decent bloke. But he's not good enough and in my view is worse than Craig Gardner who cost substantially less and contributed more overall - yet he got dogs abuse. It's not like he's the only CM option we've ever had either, it's a common position - we shouldn't be scared as fans to be a bit more optimistic and look for an improvement.

I am yet to see a good argument as to why he warrants a starting place. Sometimes people say he's 'box to box' but Mulumbu was that, and he played a completely different game to Livermore. Mark my words, with him starting as a regular we will get nowhere near the play-offs, I wish I was wrong but I really do not rate him. Rant over.

Nail.On.The.Head.

I was thinking the very same thing around that our fortunes have turned for the worst ever since he’s been here.

He’s a plodder in midfield. I’d love to see his heatmap in games. It would all be around the centre circle, not in any box. He adds nothing, literally nothing to either attack or defense. To think he’s an England international blows my mind.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 09, 2018, 08:56:52 PM
I really think he is awful.

Since signing in January 2 seasons back, we've dropped like a stone and I don't think it's a coincidence. We were 8th in the league when he came in, then we barely won for the remainder of the season, then we finished bottom - and now in the Championship we're still struggling.

I think he gets away with it because he's never a 1/10 player, because he's too cautious. Instead he's a solid 4 or 5/10 and is consistently poor, on a very good day he is average. He can't attack, nor can he defend. He's not 'box to box' because he does neither at either end, nor does he do much in the middle.
Instead, he plays scared football - playing balls back and sideways, getting his pass stats up to a nice level. When called upon to pass forward, he usually loses possession either in a slow build up or in a counter attack.
When shooting he is hopeless, and when against Forest he didn't close down Guediora quickly enough for the goal. He later cleared one off the line, but then again any player would if they were put on the post.
He's now played for 3 managers, played with various other players and hasn't done anything. Before he was at Hull, who were between the Championship and Premier League.

I think he's fooled a lot of people, not purposely of course - he seems a decent bloke. But he's not good enough and in my view is worse than Craig Gardner who cost substantially less and contributed more overall - yet he got dogs abuse. It's not like he's the only CM option we've ever had either, it's a common position - we shouldn't be scared as fans to be a bit more optimistic and look for an improvement.

I am yet to see a good argument as to why he warrants a starting place. Sometimes people say he's 'box to box' but Mulumbu was that, and he played a completely different game to Livermore. Mark my words, with him starting as a regular we will get nowhere near the play-offs, I wish I was wrong but I really do not rate him. Rant over.

A very good summary of the situation.

His inclusion actually puts more pressure on the individual next to him to be that box-to-box midfielder that we need. Unfortunately the other options aren't good enough either and that only highlights just how poor a player he is.

I honestly do not see the redeeming features of playing Livermore to be honest.

He doesn't offer any goals. He doesn't shoot. He does not create chances. He does not tackle. He's not able to control of dictate the pace of a football match. He just ambles around.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on August 09, 2018, 08:57:23 PM
was hoping Pulls would come in for him, perfect match them pair.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on August 09, 2018, 09:05:18 PM
I really think he is awful.

Since signing in January 2 seasons back, we've dropped like a stone and I don't think it's a coincidence. We were 8th in the league when he came in, then we barely won for the remainder of the season, then we finished bottom - and now in the Championship we're still struggling.

I think he gets away with it because he's never a 1/10 player, because he's too cautious. Instead he's a solid 4 or 5/10 and is consistently poor, on a very good day he is average. He can't attack, nor can he defend. He's not 'box to box' because he does neither at either end, nor does he do much in the middle.
Instead, he plays scared football - playing balls back and sideways, getting his pass stats up to a nice level. When called upon to pass forward, he usually loses possession either in a slow build up or in a counter attack.
When shooting he is hopeless, and when against Forest he didn't close down Guediora quickly enough for the goal. He later cleared one off the line, but then again any player would if they were put on the post.
He's now played for 3 managers, played with various other players and hasn't done anything. Before he was at Hull, who were between the Championship and Premier League.

I think he's fooled a lot of people, not purposely of course - he seems a decent bloke. But he's not good enough and in my view is worse than Craig Gardner who cost substantially less and contributed more overall - yet he got dogs abuse. It's not like he's the only CM option we've ever had either, it's a common position - we shouldn't be scared as fans to be a bit more optimistic and look for an improvement.

I am yet to see a good argument as to why he warrants a starting place. Sometimes people say he's 'box to box' but Mulumbu was that, and he played a completely different game to Livermore. Mark my words, with him starting as a regular we will get nowhere near the play-offs, I wish I was wrong but I really do not rate him. Rant over.
2 goals 2 assists last season - not world beating but in the context of our season not that bad either. He wasn't put on the post for the corner, he sensed the danger when the ball reached Grabban and moved himself there. Passing - he played a nice forward pass for Phillips or was it Barnes first half and created some danger for us. Scared passing? Yacob very rarely passed it further than 5 yards and I've never heard scared mentioned with him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on August 09, 2018, 09:33:10 PM
2 goals 2 assists last season - not world beating but in the context of our season not that bad either. He wasn't put on the post for the corner, he sensed the danger when the ball reached Grabban and moved himself there. Passing - he played a nice forward pass for Phillips or was it Barnes first half and created some danger for us. Scared passing? Yacob very rarely passed it further than 5 yards and I've never heard scared mentioned with him.

Yacob was twice the player Livermore was; he consistently fulfilled his role which was to defend and cover the back 4. Livermores role is non-existent - as said he cannot attack nor defend, nor pass. Regarding his passing vs Forest - he messed up quite a few easy forward passes, which he often does.

14 goals in 303 matches is woeful as well. Even James McClean's goal record was vastly superior and he rightly got criticised for lack of goals, I assume his assists are far higher too. Going back to Gardner, he scored 40 in 369 in the same leagues - again showing that even for creative stats, Livermore offers nothing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 09, 2018, 09:42:26 PM
If anyone can tell me a single thing that Jake Livermore offers the team, I'd love to listen. The man's stealing a living as a footballer. He can't pass, beat players, tackle... What's worse is that despite this, Moore continues to pick him...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Westie on August 09, 2018, 09:43:45 PM
Let’s hope that when Sam Field is fit, he’ll replace Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: maccbaggie on August 09, 2018, 09:48:28 PM
Let’s hope that when Sam Field is fit, he’ll replace Livermore.
I hope so, but reports that we offered him out on loan, and were listening to loan offers, is a concerning indication that Moore has no intention of using Field.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on August 09, 2018, 09:51:11 PM
Let’s hope that when Sam Field is fit, he’ll replace Livermore.
Field would be the 1st choice midfielder every time for me, thought he was treated harsh after some good performances last year. got found out against M City but so did the rest of the team. these players are our future and nows the time to get him fully integrated into the first team on a regular basis.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Westie on August 09, 2018, 09:55:34 PM
I will be so disappointed with Big Dave if he doesn’t play Sam Field. I was one that backed Moore for the job, I so much hope that he’s up to it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 09, 2018, 10:08:14 PM
I will be so disappointed with Big Dave if he doesn’t play Sam Field. I was one that backed Moore for the job, I so much hope that he’s up to it.
You back a manager to manage , not to manage as long as it's in agreement with what you would do

I think we all know that field can play football, but maybe (quite rightly) Darren Moore is protecting him from the start of the season and the pressure that comes with it, you only have to look at the posts and reactions after 2 matches and a transfer window to see how volatile our fan base has become...right now we need steady and calm ...which brings us nicely back to Livermore a very stable 7/10 man
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on August 09, 2018, 10:14:19 PM
You back a manager to manage , not to manage as long as it's in agreement with what you would do

I think we all know that field can play football, but maybe (quite rightly) Darren Moore is protecting him from the start of the season and the pressure that comes with it, you only have to look at the posts and reactions after 2 matches and a transfer window to see how volatile our fan base has become...right now we need steady and calm ...which brings us nicely back to Livermore a very stable 7/10 man
[/b]

He isn't a 7/10 - if he was he wouldn't have as many critics. What does he offer exactly which warrants such a rating?

Some fans are naturally blinkered towards their own players, it happened with Scott Carson and Luke Moore; week after week you would get excuses about how they were solid and ok, when in reality they were bringing the team down.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BoingFlyer on August 09, 2018, 10:26:13 PM
I really think he is awful.

Since signing in January 2 seasons back, we've dropped like a stone and I don't think it's a coincidence. We were 8th in the league when he came in, then we barely won for the remainder of the season, then we finished bottom - and now in the Championship we're still struggling.

I think he gets away with it because he's never a 1/10 player, because he's too cautious. Instead he's a solid 4 or 5/10 and is consistently poor, on a very good day he is average. He can't attack, nor can he defend. He's not 'box to box' because he does neither at either end, nor does he do much in the middle.
Instead, he plays scared football - playing balls back and sideways, getting his pass stats up to a nice level. When called upon to pass forward, he usually loses possession either in a slow build up or in a counter attack.
When shooting he is hopeless, and when against Forest he didn't close down Guediora quickly enough for the goal. He later cleared one off the line, but then again any player would if they were put on the post.
He's now played for 3 managers, played with various other players and hasn't done anything. Before he was at Hull, who were between the Championship and Premier League.

I think he's fooled a lot of people, not purposely of course - he seems a decent bloke. But he's not good enough and in my view is worse than Craig Gardner who cost substantially less and contributed more overall - yet he got dogs abuse. It's not like he's the only CM option we've ever had either, it's a common position - we shouldn't be scared as fans to be a bit more optimistic and look for an improvement.

I am yet to see a good argument as to why he warrants a starting place. Sometimes people say he's 'box to box' but Mulumbu was that, and he played a completely different game to Livermore. Mark my words, with him starting as a regular we will get nowhere near the play-offs, I wish I was wrong but I really do not rate him. Rant over.

That's a great read and explanation of why some fans don't like him, for me I don't see any one better in that position at the moment and that's a damming verdict at how little strength we have in the midfield rather than been blinked to his failings. Morrison not fit enough and very possibly past it (the same as Brunt), Field and Chadli I believe are injured. Burke is a riddle I cant figure out he strikes me as someone who has the physical attributes of a decent player but at the same time does not enjoy football.

Livermore is the only Midfielder other than the last boo boy Mclean to actually have had a bid put in for him so they must be doing something right.

Moore is clearly setting us up with two midfielders to stifle the game and quick wingers to link up with the strikers and get the goals.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 09, 2018, 10:31:47 PM
I think there's also an element of the fact that we need a more creative midfielder in there, that's not Livermore so he ends up being overly criticised.  Livermore is just a steady midfielder, as they say "a water carrier".
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbako on August 09, 2018, 10:37:37 PM
To those people who rate Livermore: watch him during a match, just for a few minutes. He quite literally does nothing. He doesn't call for the ball; he doesn't find space; he doesn't track runners. He watches play, a passenger in the middle of the park.

He is strangling us, killing any creativity and putting more pressure on our defence with his wasteful approach to possession.

Make no mistake, he is a really poor footballer; one that I hope plays as few games for us as possible. I'm gutted he is still with us actually.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on August 09, 2018, 10:43:14 PM
Nobody has yet managed what he does in a game? How he affects a game positively.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbako on August 09, 2018, 10:44:19 PM

Wish he only gave it away once. Biggest disappointment of the window is this afternoon's rumour not panning out. WBAKO  appraisal was spot on.

Jacko, we've had our disagreements over the years but Livermore has brought us together!

I understand football is a game of opinions, but how people fail to see Livermore's limitations baffles me. I lost count of the amount of times he lost possession of the ball against Bolton, for example.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbako on August 09, 2018, 10:45:47 PM
Nobody has yet managed what he does in a game? How he affects a game positively.

Sometimes he harries the opposition and puts in a tackle here and there - often when he has lost possession himself. If there is anything else, I'm all ears.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BoingFlyer on August 09, 2018, 10:46:24 PM
Nobody has yet managed what he does in a game? How he affects a game positively.

Scored the goal to stop us being relegated at Spurs last season. Also last season's joint highest goal scorer for a midfielder also last seasons most prolific tackler.  :P

Make no bones about what he does he is a plodder like Yacob who will harass the opposition and break up play, stick him in the middle next to Chadli and that's a nicely balanced midfield.  He is never going to be an attacking CM or a creative player but at the moment we don't have one fit!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 10, 2018, 10:04:35 AM
Jacko, we've had our disagreements over the years but Livermore has brought us together!

I understand football is a game of opinions, but how people fail to see Livermore's limitations baffles me. I lost count of the amount of times he lost possession of the ball against Bolton, for example.

How did that compare with our other players?  this is what I was on about, if Livermore loses possession it's groans all around, "he's done it again!".  Dawson can hit an aimless ball again and it's "unlucky Dawson my son!"
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 10, 2018, 10:22:14 AM
How did that compare with our other players?  this is what I was on about, if Livermore loses possession it's groans all around, "he's done it again!".  Dawson can hit an aimless ball again and it's "unlucky Dawson my son!"


I'm as critical of Dawson 'on the ball' as anyone. But, it's not his job to keep us ticking over in possession, making probing passes, passing forwards to feet. All things that are Livermore's remit and he fails miserably to do.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on August 10, 2018, 10:22:31 AM
I dont think Livermore is anywhere near as bad as people are making out.

Name one centre midfielder in the last 3 seasons who has had a positive influence playing wise on the pitch

- Fletcher was a good organiser but general opinion was he did nothing.
- Gardner i think was just getting past his best, but games by passed him and he did nothing.
- Yacob was probably the pick of the bunch and was ok at best, the way we played suited him as his game was breaking up play, he offered nothing else, but as the opposition had the ball all the time he was always going to be involved more.
- Barry joined with a good reputation but hasnt really done anything.
- Brunt aside from one great pass every four matches, does nothing.
- Livermore is busy without ever really doing anything.

Six midfielders there off the top of the head, some with very good reputations, who have done nothing for us, that may in part be down to the player but i would say mainly its the fact for the last few seasons
we have been probably the most anti football team in the country (this isnt a Pulis bashing, his way was effective for a bit) and just bypass the midfield.

The way we played you could put me an 18stone, 38 year old greying bloke in there and it wouldnt make a difference, the ball went front to back, that was it.

Any of the centre midfielders above would look better with -

(a) trying to play football and going through the midfield was an option
(b) having somebody like Mulumbu in his prime (which we havent had for years) who breaks forward

Centre midfield is the hardest position on the pitch and when your job is just chasing and closing down it gets you down, most centre midfielders can play football and like to put the foot on the ball and pass it, for 3 seasons completey avoided that option.

I hope Big Dave will start to implement more of a football type style but personnel is key, i think we saw saturday when we did have the ball, our centre midfielders were very similar, none were dynamic.

I hope tomorrow Big Dave puts Livermore alongside Field (assuming he is fit) as Field showed against Spurs and Newcastle last season that he is the centre midfielder who has more attacking threat about him, i think give Livermore and Field a run of games and we will see a very different Livermore (i think Barry and Brunt would also look better alongside Field or a more dynamic midfielder though i would prefer Brunt out left) Worth pointing out to for balance purposes, he is the only right footed midfielder we have got.

Livermore is a 'knitter', he is big, strong, he will sit deep, break out as teams come on, will win the ball and keep it simple given chance, it says something he has played better for England than he has for Albion, he isnt going to create 30 chances a game or get 15 goals a season, he is just a steady centre midfielder, he isnt a world beater and maybe it does say something about the quality of england centre midfielders that he is involved but there are still loads playing every week (Noble, Shelvey, etc) and Livermore gets picked in squads ahead of them.

He played for Spurs, played for Hull, played in cup finals, played most his senior career in the premier league, been involved in england setups at every level, i believe he was asked to stay back with the england squad in the summer right before they flew to russia and was next man to be on the plane incase anyone got injured so he cant be that bad, thats a lot of managers who have rated, put him in a footballing side with the right partner and i think he will be an asset for us.

*On a side note, he was terrible against Bolton but so were most of them!*

*Would also class Morrison and Chadli as more attacking midfielders rather than centre midfielders who will always start behind the strikers*
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on August 10, 2018, 10:31:21 AM
How did that compare with our other players?  this is what I was on about, if Livermore loses possession it's groans all around, "he's done it again!".  Dawson can hit an aimless ball again and it's "unlucky Dawson my son!"

Surely you are doing exactly the same
"Livermore = loses possession"
"Dawson = Hit an aimless ball again"

Lets keep objective lads.
Livermore is a midfield player whose primary roles are to stop the opposition creating and to create for us
Dawson is a defender whose primary role is to defend unsurprisingly
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BoingFlyer on August 10, 2018, 10:36:00 AM
Surely you are doing exactly the same
"Livermore = loses possession"
"Dawson = Hit an aimless ball again"

Lets keep objective lads.
Livermore is a midfield player whose primary roles are to stop the opposition creating and to create for us
Dawson is a defender whose primary role is to defend unsurprisingly

He creates more than Yacob ever did and I would argue is better at breaking up play and defending set pieces.

If he could also do the attacking part of the game he would be with us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: darbolina on August 10, 2018, 10:39:42 AM
I think Livermore is getting blamed for not being the box to box , creative midfielder with legs we've needed for a few years. To me, he's an upgrade on Yacob as he can pass forward and do a bit more than Yacob in terms of affecting the game when we have the ball.

If Livermore is playing with players who naturally want to go forwrads, his role and influence would be more clear. He's really be a piece in a very congested defensive areas since he was signed.

He also seems a good enough guy from what I've seen and just gets on with it all unlike some......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ex coseley kid on August 10, 2018, 10:40:08 AM
Albion 79's comment about missing a Mulumbu type is spot on. I think we lost a great deal of our style and push when he went (though he was losing a bit of ground when he did go to be fair).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 10, 2018, 10:58:27 AM
I dont think Livermore is anywhere near as bad as people are making out.

Name one centre midfielder in the last 3 seasons who has had a positive influence playing wise on the pitch

The fact that Tony Pulis signed no midfielders with quality should never be used as a way to argue that Livermore is not as bad as people are claiming him to be.

He is utterly terrible on the ball, is always 2 seconds late to every tackle he makes, there is no positive aspect of his play other than the fact he looks quite muscular in our new tight shirts.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on August 10, 2018, 11:10:59 AM
Every single centre midfielder we have had got worse under Pulis, whether he signed them or they were already there.

With the exception of his performances for Albion, Livermore has looked a decent player elsewhere including at international level, so it may be that we (Albion) have been the problem.

It may just be that he just isnt that good after all but i think better to judge him or any centre midfielder in a team that trys to play even a little bit of football and alongside somebody who doesnt do exactly the same job (ie - Barry and Brunt)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on August 10, 2018, 11:20:01 AM
His positional sense, when the opposition has the ball, is very poor, he just doesn't do enough to unsettle them, he's either miles away pointing or backing off. Yacob was an expert in this area but couldn't pass for toffee. The trouble is Livermore can't either. He doesn't have the guts to drive forward, or look for a pass, so he dallies too long and either gets caught in possession or passes backwards or sideways, often putting the recipient in trouble.
Physically he has the attributes, there's no doubt, I just think he needs to toughen up mentally and have a bit more confidence in, not just his own ability, but that of those around him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 10, 2018, 12:40:41 PM
Being played in the wrong role.

Livermore's actually quite good at pressing and challenging for possession further up the pitch.

He has demonstrated this for both Albion and England, just not often enough.

There is a player in there but at his age it should have come to the fore more often.

Certainly not a Pirlo but certainly not a useless sack of sh it either.

Is he the answer to our creative short comings? Clearly not.

On the other hand if he were truly as bad as many suggest he'd never get near a professional football team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on August 10, 2018, 01:42:39 PM
Being played in the wrong role.

Livermore's actually quite good at pressing and challenging for possession further up the pitch.

He has demonstrated this for both Albion and England, just not often enough.

There is a player in there but at his age it should have come to the fore more often.

Certainly not a Pirlo but certainly not a useless sack of sh it either.

Is he the answer to our creative short comings? Clearly not.

On the other hand if he were truly as bad as many suggest he'd never get near a professional football team.
Sorry mate but, at this moment in time, I think he is a bit useless and offers very little.
As above, I think he has the physical attributes, but don't think he has the confidence to step up.
Let's face it, he was lucky to get that England call up, as he wasn't pulling up any trees, but, it could and should have been the catalyst for him to really step up and grab the opportunity. However, instead of taking games by the scruff of the neck, I think he shrank away and avoided responsibility, almost as if he was scared of being exposed and making an error, so just stayed on the periphery of games. Unfortunately that's where he's stayed and his international chance has probably gone.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 10, 2018, 01:47:17 PM
Well he's here with us get off his back,would some of you improve at your own jobs by getting dogs abuse like him?
There's your answer.
Such negativity on here were a championship club now we have to get back out of this league and he must help us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WorcsWBA on August 10, 2018, 01:51:26 PM
Well he's here with us get off his back,would some of you improve at your own jobs by getting dogs abuse like him?
It comes with the territory for footballers, who get paid obscene amounts. If they can't take criticism, they should find another job.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on August 10, 2018, 01:55:58 PM
Well he's here with us get off his back,would some of you improve at your own jobs by getting dogs abuse like him?
There's your answer.
Such negativity on here were a championship club now we have to get back out of this league and he must help us.
I'm not on his back, I'm on a forum. It's what it's for.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 10, 2018, 02:01:27 PM
I'm not on his back, I'm on a forum. It's what it's for.

I reckon he could carry you, he's hench  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 10, 2018, 02:57:16 PM
Sorry mate but, at this moment in time, I think he is a bit useless and offers very little.
As above, I think he has the physical attributes, but don't think he has the confidence to step up.
Let's face it, he was lucky to get that England call up, as he wasn't pulling up any trees, but, it could and should have been the catalyst for him to really step up and grab the opportunity. However, instead of taking games by the scruff of the neck, I think he shrank away and avoided responsibility, almost as if he was scared of being exposed and making an error, so just stayed on the periphery of games. Unfortunately that's where he's stayed and his international chance has probably gone.

No need to apologise chap, I read your post so I already knew  ;D . I acknowledge he hasn't offered us enough as previously alluded to. Equally though he's still here, and I feel that if used in the Championship he'd be of more use pressing higher up the pitch on a more regular basis.

Livermore's use as an international arose due to a lack of experienced talent available to Southgate in his chosen role/system. I certainly doubt it was down to Livermore's inventiveness or dynamism. His time at that level was short lived and is effectively over given the rise of Ruben Loftus Cheek, a player who has already surpassed him and was being scouted by us prior to his loan move to Crystal Palace.

I have no solid basis for the following assumption, but if we had landed RLC on loan then I seriously doubt JL would have started last season with us never mind this one. However, I also feel he could still be of use to us on the pitch as opposed to wearing a high viz' jacket in the stands on match days or cleaning the bogs between games.

If you disagree then that's fine and dandy  8) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 10, 2018, 03:12:47 PM
No need to apologise chap, I read your post so I already knew  ;D . I acknowledge he hasn't offered us enough as previously alluded to. Equally though he's still here, and I feel that if used in the Championship he'd be of more use pressing higher up the pitch on a more regular basis.

In fairness, in the early stages against Forest I do remember him doing exactly that. Pressed high, won the ball back...the only problem was, once he won it back, he then shanked it out for a goal kick as he swung with his right boot and hit it with his left  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on August 10, 2018, 03:16:37 PM
In fairness, in the early stages against Forest I do remember him doing exactly that. Pressed high, won the ball back...the only problem was, once he won it back, he then shanked it out for a goal kick as he swung with his right boot and hit it with his left  ;D

swung with his right boot and hit it with his left

Thats impressive as it shouldn't be physically possible ! unless airborne of course !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 10, 2018, 03:19:22 PM
In fairness, in the early stages against Forest I do remember him doing exactly that. Pressed high, won the ball back...the only problem was, once he won it back, he then shanked it out for a goal kick as he swung with his right boot and hit it with his left  ;D

Takes talent that chap  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 10, 2018, 04:00:01 PM
Their wages have bout to do with anything,if someone is prepared to pay you mega bucks its not the players fault.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mister AT on August 13, 2018, 11:07:22 AM
I think he does sometime get abit too much stick in regards to the rest of the team.

He seems our only cente mid (Field excluded) who is happy to press high to win the ball back.

What you can always guarantee from Livermore is his workrate, his distribution isn't always the best however.

I would sooner see a middle two of him and Field, as opposed to Brunt and Field.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on August 14, 2018, 08:01:15 AM
Seems to be the new Ian Hamilton
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on August 19, 2018, 05:37:26 PM
Just a mention on Livermore yesterday, I thought he probably had his best game since arriving here.
Hope he can keep that level of performance throughout the campaign
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on August 19, 2018, 05:44:43 PM
Seems to be the new Ian Hamilton

This made me laugh and brought back a few memories. Livermore played well yesterday and we'll need his strength and energy at Boro at Friday.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kris_boing on August 19, 2018, 05:48:17 PM
Players like him will always divide opinion.  He's unspectacular but efficient.

Henderson, Milner, Butt, Hargreaves to name a few are players who were constantly picked by their managers and appreciated by their fellow pros.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 19, 2018, 08:14:12 PM
Just a mention on Livermore yesterday, I thought he probably had his best game since arriving here.
Hope he can keep that level of performance throughout the campaign

Agree

I'm critical of Livermore, but that was much more like it.

Good use of the ball, dominated the midfield, and kept the ball ticking nicely.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on August 19, 2018, 11:58:58 PM
He made a few excellent through passes which is what we need. In the past, he seemed to be content to take the easy option sideways or backwards. QPR might have made it easier, but don't want to take anything away from him. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: halifax_baggie on August 20, 2018, 11:30:06 AM
Perhaps now he is out of the Pulis "Straight-jacket" we have a midfielder who is a round peg in a round hole
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on August 20, 2018, 12:03:42 PM
Just a mention on Livermore yesterday, I thought he probably had his best game since arriving here.
Hope he can keep that level of performance throughout the campaign

Fully agree - he had a really good game on Saturday. Got stuck in and I remember a real decent ball forward he put through in the first half to Rodriguez which he unfortunately failed to fully control.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiebof on August 20, 2018, 12:31:28 PM
For me he is serviceable in this league however i didn't think he was great in the first half, only when the game became open and
 they became disjointed did he stamp his authority on it, from what I saw. First half neither he or Brunty were confident enough to turn on the ball with the intention of trying to break the lines and find Barnes, having said that they weren't helped by the balls into them from the back 3 not being great.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mr Cynical on August 20, 2018, 06:12:32 PM
Eze looked to be QPRs best, probing, attacking player the previous week.  He hardly saw the ball on Saturday and, to a great degree, that was due to Livermore buzzing around centre midfield.  Thought he's really uped his game.  Now for consistently playing at that level.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BB74 on August 20, 2018, 06:57:19 PM
Clearly seen as a senior player in the squad. He’s made the front row in the team picture along with Morrison, Barry, Brunt and the coaching staff.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 20, 2018, 07:19:11 PM
He played really well Saturday, broke up play and put us on the front foot a few times, bust a gut to get into the box at times too.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on September 01, 2018, 06:40:38 PM
Man of the match today in my opinion. Really bossed the midfield and was excellent forward and defensively
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on September 01, 2018, 06:41:15 PM
Superb today. That pass - what a pass.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on September 01, 2018, 06:48:03 PM
Superb today. That pass - what a pass.

Got around the pitch as well today like a true box to box midfielder. Maybe needs the atmosphere and encouragement?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on September 01, 2018, 06:51:59 PM
He also made another perfect through ball for Barnes that produced a brilliant save from Butland.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on September 01, 2018, 07:26:10 PM
Got to say i haven't been his biggest fan over the last season, but hes winning me over with his attitude and commitment now. He was my MOTM today, bossed the midfield and that pass to Gayle was sublime. If that was De Bruyne itd be all over the sports media tonight. Keep it up Jake.

I'd go with him as MOM as well, just needs a smack on the back of the legs for that daft handball
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on September 01, 2018, 07:54:05 PM
Credit it where it’s due, a great performance today and not his first positive performance of the season. My opinion on him is turning.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on September 01, 2018, 08:20:08 PM
I really slated him about a month back and I haven't rated him for most of his Albion career, but lately he seems more positive which is paying off. I don't know if it's because he's getting the Pulis side of his game removed, but slowly he seems to be hitting better forward passes which is good to see.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on September 01, 2018, 08:28:08 PM
Better players making better runs in front of him.  Watch what happens when Barnes and Gayle aren't on the pitch, without them there's very little movement centrally in front of him so ends up having to go sideways and backwards.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 01, 2018, 08:59:23 PM
Superb game today Jake. More of the same please.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mister AT on September 01, 2018, 09:27:09 PM
Always remember his debut against stoke when he signed for us and he looked like the missing link in the middle. That seemed to disappear last year but he seems to have found some form again.

Happy for the lad.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on September 01, 2018, 09:36:35 PM
Is the improvement Symptomatic of decent coaching ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on September 01, 2018, 09:40:18 PM
Is the improvement Symptomatic of decent coaching ?


Our freedom given to him, even. :-\
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boingboing1989 on September 01, 2018, 11:54:44 PM
Best player on the pitch today despite the stupid handball. Absolutely dominated the midfield and his two through balls were sublime. Keep it up, Jake!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Joust on September 03, 2018, 03:14:20 PM
Thought he was terrible last season and added nothing. This season however I doth my cap to him. Been class, the lad.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on September 03, 2018, 03:15:51 PM
Is the improvement Symptomatic of decent coaching ?
Or maybe just less coaching, he looks like he's actually enjoying himself PLAYING FOOTBALL
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on September 03, 2018, 04:57:41 PM
The majority of the ‘improvement’ will be the fact the level is drastically lower and we are now one of the better sides in the league. Not sure if we stepped back up you’d actually see much of a difference to be honest.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on September 04, 2018, 03:03:24 PM
Was useless for us in prem but have to give lad a lot of credit this season easily our best midfielder even though he's covering for Brunt as well.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 04, 2018, 11:11:30 PM
Useless you say,picked for England though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on September 05, 2018, 06:32:26 AM
We can be fairly certain that in his late 20's Livermore has not improved technically as a player.

 As some have already pointed out we are playing at a lower level but that is only half the story. The major change is the team passes and moves. Any player with even a modicum of technical ability will look a lot better in a team that plays a bit of football. Under Pulis and Pardew there was so little movement and virtually no passing options whoever played central mid was reduced to a worker drone just chasing the ball. When Livermore joined us from Hull (who lest we forget were terrible) his pass completion rate dropped by 5 percentage points that is how bad we passed the ball under Pulis.

Taking a look at the goal on Saturday neatly summarises the difference in approach. The move starts on the Albion right around the halfway line. Livermore takes a pass from Rodriguez is under pressure from Woods he knocks the ball back to Phillips in the right back position and Woods follows it to close down Phillips, who returns it Livermore. Now in space and half turned with McClean coming into the picture to close him down Livermore looks up and launches the pass to Gayle who scores.

This would not have happened under Pulis. Simply at the point the ball goes back to Phillips who is under a bit of pressure the ball would have been sent down the channel to Rodriguez who is marked by Peters and Martins-Indi. Livermore does not show for the ball because he knows it isn't coming. Secondly if we are playing with a lone unsupported forward Rodriguez might be the only forward pass even if the ball does arrive at Livermore's feet.

The difference in the Premier League on that particular move is a better player than McClean might have been more aware of the situation and got out to Livermore quicker or in a high pressing side Peters would not have jogged back to pick up an already marked Rodriguez and stayed closer to Woods who was chasing the ball down.

The bigger difference I honestly think is the way we are playing under Moore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on September 05, 2018, 12:41:51 PM
We can be fairly certain that in his late 20's Livermore has not improved technically as a player.

 As some have already pointed out we are playing at a lower level but that is only half the story. The major change is the team passes and moves. Any player with even a modicum of technical ability will look a lot better in a team that plays a bit of football. Under Pulis and Pardew there was so little movement and virtually no passing options whoever played central mid was reduced to a worker drone just chasing the ball. When Livermore joined us from Hull (who lest we forget were terrible) his pass completion rate dropped by 5 percentage points that is how bad we passed the ball under Pulis.

Taking a look at the goal on Saturday neatly summarises the difference in approach. The move starts on the Albion right around the halfway line. Livermore takes a pass from Rodriguez is under pressure from Woods he knocks the ball back to Phillips in the right back position and Woods follows it to close down Phillips, who returns it Livermore. Now in space and half turned with McClean coming into the picture to close him down Livermore looks up and launches the pass to Gayle who scores.

This would not have happened under Pulis. Simply at the point the ball goes back to Phillips who is under a bit of pressure the ball would have been sent down the channel to Rodriguez who is marked by Peters and Martins-Indi. Livermore does not show for the ball because he knows it isn't coming. Secondly if we are playing with a lone unsupported forward Rodriguez might be the only forward pass even if the ball does arrive at Livermore's feet.

The difference in the Premier League on that particular move is a better player than McClean might have been more aware of the situation and got out to Livermore quicker or in a high pressing side Peters would not have jogged back to pick up an already marked Rodriguez and stayed closer to Woods who was chasing the ball down.

The bigger difference I honestly think is the way we are playing under Moore.


Spot on. I lost count the amount of times on Saturday that our players picked the ball up in space. Some of that is down to the opposition and the way they set up but a lot of it is the movement you mentioned and the way we are playing. We are passing the ball but not just for the sake of it we are passing with a purpose and are passing forwards because we have the option to do so. You can't do it all the time but at times you can. Look at the first goal, that came from our penalty area, forward passes and movement. Gibbs who last season wouldn't have, on this occasion drove in field, Gayle initially came deep and wide left before moving again into the left side of the centre forward position. None of that happens last season. Rondon would've remained static and ending up scrapping for the ball with his marker (had the ball come his way) and because of that Gibbs would've stayed wide and most probably have checked back and played a square ball, had he been that far forward in the first place.

The Harvey Barnes missed chance at the end of the first half sums it up. Livermore with a forward pass to a midfielder running on beyond the front two. When did that ever happen last season?

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiebof on December 14, 2018, 09:21:18 AM
Jake Livermore has signed a new deal until 2022. I personally am not over the moon with this and an a little surprised as his deal already ran until 2021 I believe.


https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/december/livermore-commits-to-hawthorns-future/
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on December 14, 2018, 09:23:31 AM
I'm pleased. I wasn't his biggest fan but since Moore took over he's been a steady 7 / 8 out of ten every week. Glad he's signed an extension.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 14, 2018, 10:47:30 AM
Good news
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bradleysrocket on December 14, 2018, 11:46:40 AM
Jake Livermore has signed a new deal until 2022. I personally am not over the moon with this and an a little surprised as his deal already ran until 2021 I believe.


https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2018/december/livermore-commits-to-hawthorns-future/
I would imagine in this case the deal is more about him grabbing some of that flexdown back rather than committing himself to the club.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: don1thedon on December 14, 2018, 02:41:05 PM
Good news
I’m with you on that ‘68.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 14, 2018, 02:49:43 PM
Awful news.  :(
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on December 14, 2018, 05:30:12 PM
Awful news.  :(

There go my dreams of improving cm.
Saying that Barry should be off summer and 50/50 on Morrison depends on what division we're in so we would be short of a senior cm.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 14, 2018, 05:40:32 PM
I’m with you on that ‘68.
We seem to be in a minority on here mate. Some people just do not seem to have warmed to Jake. I have seen postings where Brunt is preferred to him in midfield. I do not actually get it. He has been the "legs" of our midfield all season, with little support.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on December 15, 2018, 12:34:14 AM
Based of his performances this season good news.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on December 15, 2018, 06:33:21 AM
Good news.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 16, 2018, 10:13:06 AM
Has limitations but can be part of an effective midfield when balanced with players of different qualities.  Covers a lot of ground but needs a creative player alongside.  Agree that with Barry retiring and Mozza/Brunt in the twilight of there time here he will take on the senior pro mantle....just don't ask him to pass more than about 10 yards.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on December 29, 2018, 05:35:08 PM
Just want to mention Livermore who I think has been one of our best players over the past month. Not his best game today but is always there to break the play up and find a pass.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on January 02, 2019, 01:25:29 PM
Jake is banned for 4 games, including the FA Cup game.

Albion do not intend appealing the red card
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 02, 2019, 03:02:17 PM
Won't be missed.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gavinrussell on January 02, 2019, 03:16:25 PM
Might not be missed by some.. but he has a 4 year contract.. so who is losing out...!!!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 02, 2019, 03:17:48 PM
Won't be missed.

He will be if the alternative is Brunt...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on January 02, 2019, 03:53:26 PM
He will be if the alternative is Brunt...
I hope Brunt isn't the alternative because if he is and we have 4 bad results this board will go into melt down about Darren Moore!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba_1996 on January 02, 2019, 04:11:06 PM
I hope Brunt isn't the alternative because if he is and we have 4 bad results this board will go into melt down about Darren Moore!

After everything we've seen this season, if Brunt is the alternative then I'd hope Darren Moore doesn't see out the full 4 games. Would kill our season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 02, 2019, 04:31:46 PM
Moore stumbled across a winning team and formation with injuries to Brunt and Bartley. I hope this suspension enables him to play sam field for a run of games to see what he's got or perhaps even Harper.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 02, 2019, 04:52:01 PM
Won't be missed.

Personally thought we missed him not being in the line up from kick off.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gerry m on January 02, 2019, 04:57:05 PM
Very silly reaction but the Blackburn player was a disgrace in my opinion. Went down like he'd been shot.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 02, 2019, 04:58:43 PM
Personally thought we missed him not being in the line up from kick off.


I didn't mate. Thought we were comfortable in the game until the two howlers.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 02, 2019, 05:07:50 PM

I didn't mate. Thought we were comfortable in the game until the two howlers.

Fair enough, what a pair of howlers they were though.

Thought we were very pedestrian and casual at times giving them too much time and space, especially early on.

Once we went behind then Gibbs's run aside I never really thought we looked like getting anything.

Pity given how early I had to get up to be there the morning after the night before.

Anyway, all of the best to you and the old man for 2019  8) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Westie on January 02, 2019, 07:11:24 PM
Shame if Albion are not appealing the red card, that was never a sending off offence. That game is getting pathetic and the officials are getting worse. Too many namby pambies in the World.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: 1954 on January 02, 2019, 07:43:25 PM
Shame if Albion are not appealing the red card, that was never a sending off offence. That game is getting pathetic and the officials are getting worse. Too many namby pambies in the World.

The ref had no choice but to send him off. One look at the Blackburn player lying prostrate & motionless on the ground holding his face told him he must have suffered a lethal assault! Flaming play actors. Should have booked Jake for the arm pull and the Blackburn bloke for simulating serious injury & attempting to get a player sent off!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: royhan on January 02, 2019, 08:10:33 PM
The ref had no choice but to send him off. One look at the Blackburn player lying prostrate & motionless on the ground holding his face told him he must have suffered a lethal assault! Flaming play actors. Should have booked Jake for the arm pull and the Blackburn bloke for simulating serious injury & attempting to get a player sent off!

Spot on
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on January 03, 2019, 12:48:19 PM
Any news if Livermore will be fined 2 weeks wages, because whatever play acting the Blackburn player did that was shocking discipline from him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 03, 2019, 12:55:02 PM
Jake is another Baggie that divides opinion. A great player he is not but in my view he is having a good season for us in this division. To those who say that he will not be missed can they please confirm who should replace him? No obvious candidates for me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on January 03, 2019, 03:23:31 PM
I don't think he's outstanding in any way but when he hasn't played we've missed him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Oldbury24 on January 03, 2019, 07:52:45 PM
Livermore covering ground and closing down next to a more creative player works well.  I thought the combination of Livermore, Phillips and Barry workef really well.

Ask him to be the passing midfielder and in this role he would not be missed.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 09, 2019, 09:22:00 PM
Extremely lucky not to get sent off again today, then later on his sportsmanship prevented Joe Allen getting a red. Thought he was his usual 4 or 5 out of 10 and would like Harper to take his place going forward. Use him from the bench to shore up games we're winning narrowly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 09, 2019, 09:23:25 PM
Thought he was poor today, his touch was awful. Would prefer to play Harper on Tuesday.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on February 10, 2019, 10:27:36 AM
needs to lay of the weights, looks more like a body builder these days. he's squarer than boiler man.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 10, 2019, 10:32:47 AM
He does look slow and cumbersome in possession

Agree he may be useful to help shore up a game - like yesterday.

I’d much rather see Harper or Phillips being used in that third midfield position alongside Barry and Johansen
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 10, 2019, 11:45:54 AM
He does look slow and cumbersome in possession

Agree he may be useful to help shore up a game - like yesterday.

I’d much rather see Harper or Phillips being used in that third midfield position alongside Barry and Johansen
Until we signed johansen he was probably the only "protector" that we had
It's a funny one, he's never outstanding but when he's not there we miss him
I'd like us to go 442
  Phillips.     Harper/Barry.  Johansen/Livermore    Montero/Murphy
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: maximus on February 10, 2019, 11:51:00 AM
Do not rate him at all, The man panics as soon as he receives the ball, Turns into the opposition too many times, Just not mobile enough and way over bulked. Harper all day over him but i feel big dave will keep playing Livermore.

His already been banned alot, Should have went yesterday as-well. Liability's don't belong in the team, That's why Brunt belongs nowhere near midfield.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 10, 2019, 12:29:17 PM
Go back to the start of the thread to see my opinions on him and nothing has changed really, he is an extremely limited footballer, you coulod see that from the outset, but is a handy squad player for this level to come in and 'do a job'. If everyone were fit and available, my midfield three pecking order would be:

Starters
Phillips
Barry
Johansen

Remainder in order
Harper
Livermore
Field
Myhill
Brunt

I'm excluding Morrison entirely because, sadly, he is done as a footballer now. The decision to sign him up again looks more and more ludicrous by the day
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 10, 2019, 12:31:02 PM
Go back to the start of the thread to see my opinions on him and nothing has changed really, he is an extremely limited footballer, you coulod see that from the outset, but is a handy squad player for this level to come in and 'do a job'. If everyone were fit and available, my midfield three pecking order would be:

Starters
Phillips
Barry
Johansen

Remainder in order
Harper
Livermore
Field
Myhill
Brunt

I'm excluding Morrison entirely because, sadly, he is done as a footballer now. The decision to sign him up again looks more and more ludicrous by the day


Myhill in midfield? I'd love to see that as long as he was playing for the opposing team.  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 10, 2019, 12:33:16 PM

Myhill in midfield? I'd love to see that as long as he was playing for the opposing team.  ;D

Accentuation of a point  ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 10, 2019, 12:37:22 PM
Despite his limitations in most of the games he has been suspended we have missed him, only times we didn't was when Field and Harper were alongside Barry.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on February 10, 2019, 01:00:49 PM
I thought he played well first half vs Brighton when he played in the Barry role, ie - in front of the defence. He got the ball and passed it well, however he isnt as good as Barry in that role and i would think Field is next in that role in league games if Barry cant play

He did look off the pace yesterday as the tempo was quicker than the fa cup and he is a big powerful lad anyway so i would imagine he needs a couple of games to get upto speed which is why he cant afford to keep getting bans!

For a long time he was our legs in midfield but he does seem to be bulking up more and with the emergence of Harper and signing Johansen we arent as reliant on him as we was but we do seem to do better this season when he plays.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 10, 2019, 01:06:28 PM
I don't expect us to have Barry next year, and I think and hope Brunt and Morrison are more or less finished now (with all due respect to a decade's fine contribution from each) so I would say he can keep on doing a solid if unspectacular job for us in either the champ or the Prem.  If Field, Harper and others are going to come through, we will need someone with a presence on the pitch who's been there and done it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 10, 2019, 01:56:12 PM
Despite his limitations in most of the games he has been suspended we have missed him, only times we didn't was when Field and Harper were alongside Barry.

What you’re trying to say is that we dont miss Livermore when we play round pegs in round holes !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 10, 2019, 02:48:46 PM
What you’re trying to say is that we dont miss Livermore when we play round pegs in round holes !

In a nutshell  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 10, 2019, 03:14:55 PM
Worst CM at the club apart from Brunt. Another long term contract signee.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 12, 2019, 11:50:31 PM
Won't hear a bad word said about Brunt in centre midfield after watching this guys attempt at the pivot tonight. Absolutely embarrassing, he's got multiple England caps,  one of the worst performances I've ever seen from an Albion player.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 12, 2019, 11:51:45 PM
Won't hear a bad word said about Brunt in centre midfield after watching this guys attempt at the pivot tonight. Absolutely embarrassing, he's got multiple England caps,  one of the worst performances I've ever seen from an Albion player.

You won't regardless of Livermore.

Livermore was awful tonight, possibly his worst performance in an Albion shirt.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on February 12, 2019, 11:53:44 PM
One of Moore and Jones favourites so we can't say a bad word against a pooh midfielder.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 13, 2019, 04:45:31 AM
I still can't believe we have given him a new contract. We should have left it as it was and now we could be making sure we get Harper a deal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on February 13, 2019, 06:57:46 AM
At the moment he's a liability from the point of view that he makes too many mistakes and in trying to rectify those mistakes he becomes reckless.
It amazes me that we let Yacob walk away and kept this Charlie
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on February 13, 2019, 07:34:50 AM
He fouls, he gives the ball away all the time, defensively he offers nothing really other than being an athlete and going forward he's horrendous. With Harper and Barry we simply don't need him in the team.

The only use i can see for him is coming off the bench when the other team is tiring so he can run around a bit but we could sign a 100 metre runner to do that.

He's one of my least favourite players to seen in an Albion shirt and i endured the Alan Buckley days!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 13, 2019, 09:20:39 AM
He was poor last night but I don't think the set up helps any of our midfield.  They ALL look terrible when trying to find a forward pass because the front 3 are too far away and spread too wide across the pitch.  It's too easy for the opposition to pack the midfield and defence giving us no space.  Then when their packed midfield press we're not good enough in defence to get the ball to any kind of forward\midfield player in space.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on February 13, 2019, 09:26:08 AM
I could see the logic of playing Livermore as the holding midfielder last night as he played that role first half vs Brighton.

However the big difference with the Brighton game was they gave him loads of time so he could ping it about, last night as soon as the ball got to the halfway line, Forest were all over us and Livermore struggled, i would of taken him off at half time.

I dont think Livermore is anywhere near as bad as some make out and worth remembering he was in the middle 3 that played our best football with Barry and Phillips, however at the moment he is completely out of form and off the pace for the tempo this league is played at and shouldnt be starting right now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiebof on February 13, 2019, 10:12:17 AM
Average player however the role he played last night is his best position. Teams have figured out that if they press us with 4 men, especially the player playing the pivot, then they can turn the ball over and score - see Barry getting robbed vs Boro. Although I think he is average, i think Livermore's performance last night was as much down to the tactics than him.

he offers nothing really other than being an athlete


I'm not sure I agree with this, I don't think he's particularly mobile.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on February 13, 2019, 10:50:12 AM
Poor performance last night for sure, would obviously rather play Barry or Harper there, but we do need to accept that he will be making appearances to rotate the midfield players. Since Barry is not of the age where he can play 3 full games in 7 days and Harper does seem to tire after 70-80 mins most games.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 13, 2019, 10:52:11 AM
Poor performance last night for sure, would obviously rather play Barry or Harper there, but we do need to accept that he will be making appearances to rotate the midfield players. Since Barry is not of the age where he can play 3 full games in 7 days and Harper does seem to tire after 70-80 mins most games.


He could've started with Barry and subbed him after about an hour. If he really must rest him the Field should've played in Barry's position.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 13, 2019, 11:07:13 AM
I could see the logic of playing Livermore as the holding midfielder last night as he played that role first half vs Brighton.

However the big difference with the Brighton game was they gave him loads of time so he could ping it about, last night as soon as the ball got to the halfway line, Forest were all over us and Livermore struggled, i would of taken him off at half time.

I dont think Livermore is anywhere near as bad as some make out and worth remembering he was in the middle 3 that played our best football with Barry and Phillips, however at the moment he is completely out of form and off the pace for the tempo this league is played at and shouldnt be starting right now.

Yeah, Forest pressed well but I think whoever we had in that role would struggle because the options open when you receive the ball are so few. 

It's like the ball Dawson played that we conceded from, first, it was a terrible ball giving Livermore no chance.  But even if LIvermore had got the ball what was he supposed to do?  Turn 180 degrees instantly and take it past his man?  He'd have to take a good first touch (which too often he didn't), and then his options are back to the defence.  Rinse.  Repeat.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 13, 2019, 11:14:37 AM
Yeah, Forest pressed well but I think whoever we had in that role would struggle because the options open when you receive the ball are so few. 

It's like the ball Dawson played that we conceded from, first, it was a terrible ball giving Livermore no chance.  But even if LIvermore had got the ball what was he supposed to do?  Turn 180 degrees instantly and take it past his man?  He'd have to take a good first touch (which too often he didn't), and then his options are back to the defence.  Rinse.  Repeat.


International centre midfielder who cannot take the ball on the half turn. Yes that is exactly what he should have done. Can you imagine Livermore having caps if he was Spanish?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 13, 2019, 11:57:58 AM
Can you imagine us having a Spanish international midfielder playing in the Championship?

It's not easy to receive the ball on the turn when someone is pressing right behind you.  It's the easiest job in the world as a defender to ensure the player with the ball can't turn.  You can take the ball on the half turn when there's space to do so.  If you're good at doing it when there's a defender right up your backside you'd be playing for far better clubs than Albion.

The problem is the lack of foresight from the player making the pass into him.  What does HE expect the player receiving the ball to do?  That's why we struggle to beat the press because the defence gives the ball to someone with nothing else in mind other than "pass the ball to someone else".

Livermore is alright as a player, not amazing, not terrible.  He did have a poor game last night but I do think a lot of our midfield problems stem from the way we play it out.  You just have to look at where our midfield our receiving the ball when they do get it, they're more often than not 20-30 yards inside our own half.  That's too deep and leaves them all with way too much to do.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on February 13, 2019, 12:11:19 PM
Sorry, but Livermore was beyond poor last night. Yes the pass to him that lead to their goal was a disaster but he was half asleep and on his heels and that's how he stayed for the rest of his time on the pitch.
He just reminds me of Gardner, he is very good at looking industrious whilst contributing virtually nothing. Can't tackle, can't pass, definitely can't shoot and when he does show for the ball he invariably slows play down.
Harper and Barry are our best central midfielders now with Johanson and Field next in line.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on February 13, 2019, 12:34:20 PM
I have defended him previously as I thought (and still do) that he did okay first half of the season. Last night however, and at Stoke to a lesser degree, he was really poor. Barry cam on after around 65 minutes and was, in my view, a serious contended for MoM for us. That tells you something.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 13, 2019, 12:45:06 PM
My Dad turned to me last night and said that 'Livermore was having to do it all on his own in the middle. Harper and Johanson were nowhere'. I was gobsmacked. He was awful last night, and he should have been hooked earlier imo.

I simply cannot tell what he brings to the team. For me, he'd be behind Phillips, Barry, Johanson, Field, Harper, Morrison, and even Brunt for a centre midfield spot at the moment. What does he do well? He's average at lots of stuff, but nothing sticks out.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on February 13, 2019, 12:57:51 PM
Luckily we have good competition for places in the midfield. If you include Phillips, then we have 9 contenders for 3 slots. So its up to the management to see who is on form and who's strugglling.
To be fair to Livermore, he has been effective for much of the season, but when he can't do what he's good at, then the overall team performance suffers. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 13, 2019, 01:15:37 PM
My Dad turned to me last night and said that 'Livermore was having to do it all on his own in the middle. Harper and Johanson were nowhere'. I was gobsmacked. He was awful last night, and he should have been hooked earlier imo.

I simply cannot tell what he brings to the team. For me, he'd be behind Phillips, Barry, Johanson, Field, Harper, Morrison, and even Brunt for a centre midfield spot at the moment. What does he do well? He's average at lots of stuff, but nothing sticks out.


That's what he does well, flies under the radar, a steady 4 out of 10 (with the odd game like last night where that drops considerably) not affecting games, not offering anything except reputation because he came through Spurs academy, at least Craig Gardner had a shot in his locker.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on February 13, 2019, 01:24:29 PM
He does a similar job to what Claudio Yacob did, who somehow seemed to escape the same criticism as Livermore. Both clearly not particularly creative players, are not prolific goalscorers, and are there to offer cover to the defence.   
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 13, 2019, 01:25:50 PM
He does a similar job to what Claudio Yacob did, who somehow seemed to escape the same criticism as Livermore. Both clearly not particularly creative players, are not prolific goalscorers, and are there to offer cover to the defence.


You're joking aren't you Yacob tackled and blocked anything that moved, twice the player Livermore is.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on February 13, 2019, 01:41:31 PM

You're joking aren't you Yacob tackled and blocked anything that moved, twice the player Livermore is.
Dunno. I think Yacob was a very tenacious tackler and marker. Got alot of yellow cards like Livermore. But overall very few assists, goals. I think Livermore offers slightly more going forward.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: rajesh-wba on February 13, 2019, 01:55:41 PM
My Dad turned to me last night and said that 'Livermore was having to do it all on his own in the middle. Harper and Johanson were nowhere'. I was gobsmacked. He was awful last night, and he should have been hooked earlier imo.

I simply cannot tell what he brings to the team. For me, he'd be behind Phillips, Barry, Johanson, Field, Harper, Morrison, and even Brunt for a centre midfield spot at the moment. What does he do well? He's average at lots of stuff, but nothing sticks out.

I personally like Livermore, and the attributes he brings to a team. He's got good energy levels, covers a lot of ground and is a decent passer when given time. Note the ball to Gayle against Stoke at Home.
I just don't think he's effective as the deep lying midfielder in this team, where the primary aim is to recycle the ball and initiate attacks, I much prefer him as the right side or left side in a central three.

Also he always takes a little while to gain rhythm, very much similar to Phillips, whereby they tend to take 3-4 games to get up to speed.

I'm actually surprised considering we've tried to evolve into a passing team why he hasn't been trialled (maybe in training this has happened) at centre back in a 3. He impressed me when he played there for Hull when they had a number of injuries.

I just think he's someone who will always divide opinion, but I think the make up of the midfield has to be right to see the best of him.

In terms of his performance yesterday he was very much below par. I think he will start on Saturday due to his experience etc.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 13, 2019, 02:08:00 PM
Livermore is a constant 6 out of 10, occasionally lifts to a 7 but also drops to 5 but last night went down to about 4 for me, not as bad as is made out to be by some but not going to set the world on fire either.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: rajesh-wba on February 13, 2019, 02:25:53 PM
Livermore is a constant 6 out of 10, occasionally lifts to a 7 but also drops to 5 but last night went down to about 4 for me, not as bad as is made out to be by some but not going to set the world on fire either.


Agree. Arguably one of his worst performances last night. I think he knew that himself too.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 13, 2019, 04:27:31 PM
He's not mobile enough to play the way we are trying, him receiving the ball facing our goal in our half, he's got the turning circle of a cruise liner, he will be picked off again.  We were sussed on the 352 so we changed it around, we've been sussed on this playing out from the back business, so we need to change that if we want to get anywhere near the automatic places.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on February 13, 2019, 04:44:27 PM
He's not mobile enough to play the way we are trying, him receiving the ball facing our goal in our half, he's got the turning circle of a cruise liner, he will be picked off again.  We were sussed on the 352 so we changed it around, we've been sussed on this playing out from the back business, so we need to change that if we want to get anywhere near the automatic places.
turning circle of cruise liner priceless  :D can his agent use that quote  :P
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 13, 2019, 05:04:32 PM
Livermore is a constant 6 out of 10, occasionally lifts to a 7 but also drops to 5 but last night went down to about 4 for me, not as bad as is made out to be by some but not going to set the world on fire either.


Incredibly generous take when you're so down on other more talented players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 13, 2019, 05:21:47 PM

International centre midfielder who cannot take the ball on the half turn. Yes that is exactly what he should have done. Can you imagine Livermore having caps if he was Spanish?

I can't imagine Livermore getting caps if he was Scottish....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 13, 2019, 05:23:11 PM

Incredibly generous take when you're so down on other more talented players.

I judge a player on what I see, Livermore is what he is, a solid workhorse, never going to be anything else.

As for these talented players you mean your mate Chris, he is what he is an excellent crosser of a ball who is not and never will be a central midfielder as he cannot tackle, is not mobile enough and loses his best asset when he's in the middle hence why he should be out wide or at left back, at present we cannot fit him in there so he should be on the bench, no hate towards him just my opinion. Who else am I so down on ? I don't have a hit list of players I never give credit to, I say it as I see it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on February 13, 2019, 05:41:24 PM
He does a similar job to what Claudio Yacob did, who somehow seemed to escape the same criticism as Livermore. Both clearly not particularly creative players, are not prolific goalscorers, and are there to offer cover to the defence.

This to me is an incredible statement. Yacob was an absolute force, he didn't try across field 50 yard balls because he couldn't do it, whereas Livermore hasn't even recognised his own limits.

The only time Livermore puts in a good challenge is seconds after he's given it to the opposition
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on February 13, 2019, 06:24:14 PM
I liked Yacob, he had his limitations but with the right people around him he did a decent job, however he only turned 31 in the summer, on a free transfer and he has ended up at a club in the same league.

I think there were rumours of a couple of foreign clubs trying to sign him when in his pomp with us but i dont believe any english club was ever even linked with him let alone made any offers.

Livermore is 29 and if made available for a sensible fee, say £5m - £7m there would probably 5 or 6 premier league clubs who would want to sign him, i think in the summer both Palace and Watford made enquiries didnt they but we priced them out?

He was also on standby and the extra man who trained with the England squad ahead of the World Cup last summer and would of gone had there been an injury and the national team didnt do too bad, dont get me wrong i dont think he should be playing but Southgate seemed to rate him highly enough to have him that close.

Livermore also was a key part of two of our best performances this season when we beat Leeds and Sheffield United and our results tend to be better this season when he plays.

I dont think he is a world beater, and he probably shouldnt be playing at the moment and he could do with cutting down on the weights, but i think he is a decent player who is out of form (i also think he will end up playing centre back somewhere down the line)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on February 13, 2019, 06:31:15 PM
he's part of the reason why we are no longer playing top flight football. like McClean they are more athlete than footballer just typical Pulls type players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 13, 2019, 06:35:39 PM
I judge a player on what I see, Livermore is what he is, a solid workhorse, never going to be anything else.

As for these talented players you mean your mate Chris, he is what he is an excellent crosser of a ball who is not and never will be a central midfielder as he cannot tackle, is not mobile enough and loses his best asset when he's in the middle hence why he should be out wide or at left back, at present we cannot fit him in there so he should be on the bench, no hate towards him just my opinion. Who else am I so down on ? I don't have a hit list of players I never give credit to, I say it as I see it.


Brunt has never played as badly or been as ineffectual as Livermore did and was last night. Ever.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 13, 2019, 06:42:35 PM

Brunt has never played as badly or been as ineffectual as Livermore did and was last night. Ever.

I don't dispute he's played as badly but he has been ineffective in there almost every time he's played there. I've never seen Livermore play as badly as he did last night but I would still have a natural central midfielder in there ahead of Brunt every day of the week
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 13, 2019, 06:49:33 PM
I don’t think anyone will say Livermore now deserves his place with the emergence of Harper, Barry’s importance, Johansen signed, Phillips to come back etc.  I think we should look to offload Jake in the Summer.

However the facts are we’ve lost 2 league games from last 16 with Brunt and Bartley playing a peripheral role.  Contrast that with 5 defeats from the first 15 with Brunt and Bartley playing a central role.

Playing Brunt and Livermore combined or Barry and Livermore was a disaster.

There is a reason Brunt put himself forward as a left back it’s because he knew the mobility had gone.  Who knows why Big Dave saw fit to change that?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 13, 2019, 07:33:49 PM
Livermore needs moving on, hes such a pulis player, hard worker limited technical ability. we need to tie down harper, because of the off chance were in this division again next year he looks more than capable
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 14, 2019, 09:37:57 AM
I still think we need one of Barry/ Livermore on the pitch for the experience/workhorse job, and as Barry can't play 3 times in 7 days, Livermore is needed right now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on February 14, 2019, 09:45:45 AM
I thought Livermore started off the season looking good, but he now seems to be going backwards he needs to up his game or sit on the bench
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on February 14, 2019, 10:41:14 AM
I still think we need one of Barry/ Livermore on the pitch for the experience/workhorse job, and as Barry can't play 3 times in 7 days, Livermore is needed right now.

You're right - Barry! Then Field can replace Livermore in my eyes
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Signor_Maresca on February 14, 2019, 04:33:09 PM
Livermore was absolutely woeful against Forest.  He might be a nice bloke and good at gee’ing up the lads before games but that just isn’t enough to warrant a place in the side.

Livermore does nothing particularly well.  Fans argue that he is good at breaking up play but I see no evidence of this.  He is too slow and cumbersome to get around opposition players quickly and isn’t intelligent enough to read situations before they happen – something Yacob was excellent at. 

He is also the wrong footballer to have sitting deep when playing out from the back.  When there are no options out on the flanks it’s up to him to sit in and receive the ball off the defenders. Unfortunately his technical deficiency means he treats the ball like a hot potato and tends to take a second too long to control the ball before whacking a hospital pass to one of his team mates.  In a functional  Pulis-esc  side he can get away with it but in a team that requires dynamism and technical competence he just isn’t up to scratch.

His attitude last summer was admirable; when the rats were desperately abandoning the sinking ship he was reported as saying:  “I’m a West Brom player until someone tells me differently”, taking into account he was one of our highest profile players I really respected this.   However, going forward we can’t keep carrying him because of reputation.   Hopefully Saturday will bring a midfield trio of Johansen, Barry and Harper.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 14, 2019, 10:55:23 PM

International centre midfielder who cannot take the ball on the half turn. Yes that is exactly what he should have done. Can you imagine Livermore having caps if he was Spanish?
Lorente has ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 15, 2019, 12:46:25 PM
Lorente has ?


150 career goals including 1 in 3 at International level. Rubbish him mate.


 :-\
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 16, 2019, 07:53:15 PM
Special word for Jake, a 7 from me , good performance worked very hard.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on March 01, 2019, 09:44:07 PM
This bloke is out of his depth against the better Championship teams
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on March 01, 2019, 09:45:59 PM
He waa the best or the midfield 3 tonight.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 01, 2019, 09:46:55 PM
This bloke is out of his depth against the better Championship teams


Out of his depth whenever he steps out of a weight room and onto a football pitch. I had a lot of time for Pulis but can't forgive him for signing Livermore.


He waa the best or the midfield 3 tonight.


He was equally as bad as both Barry and Harper and that's being generous.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on March 01, 2019, 10:01:33 PM

Out of his depth whenever he steps out of a weight room and onto a football pitch. I had a lot of time for Pulis but can't forgive him for signing Livermore.



He was equally as bad as both Barry and Harper and that's being generous.
He’s got a lovely smile.😁
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on March 01, 2019, 10:10:26 PM
can't tackle, can't pass. it's not enough to say he was better of 3 tonight when they all played poor. he never influences of dominates the midfield so why play him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on March 30, 2019, 09:30:58 PM
Did anyone see the kick on Deen by him last night as at the ground I missed it.

Birmingham snail suggesting he could be done for it retrospectively.

If so that would be a five game ban which would mean he would have been banned for over quarter of our games.

Shocking.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on March 30, 2019, 09:57:48 PM
Did anyone see the kick on Deen by him last night as at the ground I missed it.

Birmingham snail suggesting he could be done for it retrospectively.

If so that would be a five game ban which would mean he would have been banned for over quarter of our games.

Shocking.


Despite the winner that ban would be incredibly good news.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on March 30, 2019, 10:15:23 PM

Despite the winner that ban would be incredibly good news.

Shocking comment really. We don’t want anyone being banned for 5 games surely??
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on March 31, 2019, 02:48:36 AM
Did anyone see the kick on Deen by him last night as at the ground I missed it.

Birmingham snail suggesting he could be done for it retrospectively.

If so that would be a five game ban which would mean he would have been banned for over quarter of our games.

Shocking.
I spotted it on the telly, and commented about it on here shortly after. He lashed out with a kick as we we’re attacking. The ref played on, but let it go after. He risked us going a man down. Hopefully the FA choose to ignore it. Depends on whether they think it’s more offensive than a player admitting to spitting on opposing fans.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: 17GD on March 31, 2019, 03:33:29 AM
The ref saw it and didn't give anything so he shouldn't receive a ban retrospectively. And my opinion is that if he does get done then the other player should receive the same punishment as he brought Gayle down first.

I love JL for doing this. Take my team mate down and I'll take you down.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on March 31, 2019, 09:30:48 AM
The ref saw it and didn't give anything so he shouldn't receive a ban retrospectively. And my opinion is that if he does get done then the other player should receive the same punishment as he brought Gayle down first.

I love JL for doing this. Take my team mate down and I'll take you down.
Idiotic in my view , already served a hefty ban this season and is supposed to be a senior player.
Very lucky the ref didn't see it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on March 31, 2019, 10:37:23 AM
The ref saw it and didn't give anything so he shouldn't receive a ban retrospectively. And my opinion is that if he does get done then the other player should receive the same punishment as he brought Gayle down first.

I love JL for doing this. Take my team mate down and I'll take you down.

Are you kidding? He put the game at risk and would have effectively been out for the rest of the season and may still be. Loving a player for being unprofessional and putting the rest of the team at risk is bizarre.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wba_1996 on March 31, 2019, 11:22:33 AM
Their defender swiped Gayle's legs off the ball to take him out of a dangerous attack, Livermore did the exact same thing to the defender. I've got no problem with it, this league is full of rubbish players making up for it by being cynical, if we're going to continue starting our plodders ahead of our better players we might as well join them.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: we8seals on March 31, 2019, 12:47:56 PM
seconf half on friday was his best 45 mins of the season - for the first time i remember he genuinely influenced the game
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on March 31, 2019, 01:24:59 PM
seconf half on friday was his best 45 mins of the season - for the first time i remember he genuinely influenced the game

I thought he was our best midfielder on Friday.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2019, 01:28:30 PM
I thought he was our best midfielder on Friday.

Not much competition to be fair but I know what you mean.....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on March 31, 2019, 02:23:33 PM
I watched the game back on TV, wasn’t impressed with him. Watch 56 minutes in, awful touch gives the ball away and leaves blues running straight at our defence. Embarrassing watching him trying to run after them. He’s too fat and slow to be a central midfielder. Great strike for his goal but most premier league GK’s would have saved it. He needs to lose a lot of weight.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: rajesh-wba on March 31, 2019, 04:47:53 PM
I watched the game back on TV, wasn’t impressed with him. Watch 56 minutes in, awful touch gives the ball away and leaves blues running straight at our defence. Embarrassing watching him trying to run after them. He’s too fat and slow to be a central midfielder. Great strike for his goal but most premier league GK’s would have saved it. He needs to lose a lot of weight.

Livermore isn’t fat at all. He’s very muscular and has a broad build. Joey Barton in his autobiography did state that Livermore did spend a lot of time in the gym. I was looking back at his photos when he first joined and he was more athletic IMO. Seems to have bulked up a lot especially when Pulis was here, now whether that was because Pulis saw him as more of a midfielder to just sit in front of the defence as opposed to when he was at Hull and Tottenham he was more box to box
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on March 31, 2019, 05:22:30 PM
Are you kidding? He put the game at risk and would have effectively been out for the rest of the season and may still be. Loving a player for being unprofessional and putting the rest of the team at risk is bizarre.

This. Fans loved it when McClean went flying in as well, but all it does is disadvantage the team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on April 01, 2019, 10:46:07 PM
Livermore isn’t fat at all. He’s very muscular and has a broad build. Joey Barton in his autobiography did state that Livermore did spend a lot of time in the gym. I was looking back at his photos when he first joined and he was more athletic IMO. Seems to have bulked up a lot especially when Pulis was here, now whether that was because Pulis saw him as more of a midfielder to just sit in front of the defence as opposed to when he was at Hull and Tottenham he was more box to box

You’re right Rajesh. If he’s fat I wish I was too!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on April 02, 2019, 09:23:25 AM
Has Jake been, retrospectively, charged by FA for his indiscretion against Blues does anyone know?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BoingFlyer on April 02, 2019, 09:39:30 AM
Has Jake been, retrospectively, charged by FA for his indiscretion against Blues does anyone know?

I have not seen anything. WM radio blew it all out of proportion when I viewed it myself it looked like nothing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on April 02, 2019, 09:41:06 AM
I have not seen anything. WM radio blew it all out of proportion when I viewed it myself it looked like nothing.

Thank you for the update  :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Sted1990 on April 10, 2019, 06:46:50 PM
We were 8th in the premier league when he signed. It’s been a steady decline ever since. He’s too big to be a centre mid. Simply not good enough.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on April 10, 2019, 06:53:51 PM
We were 8th in the premier league when he signed. It’s been a steady decline ever since. He’s too big to be a centre mid. Simply not good enough.


*Quick look at the PL table*


Can you imaguine him in the D1ngle5 midfield? Wtf would Moutinho and Neves make of him?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on April 11, 2019, 12:51:17 PM
We were 8th in the premier league when he signed. It’s been a steady decline ever since. He’s too big to be a centre mid. Simply not good enough.

What boggles my mind is that we could have had Chalobah and Hughes for £5 million each (they went to Watford instead), while Livermore cost us £10 million. Poor, short-sighted business.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mister AT on April 11, 2019, 02:23:29 PM
What boggles my mind is that we could have had Chalobah and Hughes for £5 million each (they went to Watford instead), while Livermore cost us £10 million. Poor, short-sighted business.

Totally pointless of me, but just had a quick look and Chalobah and Hughes both signed for Watford in pre season the transfer window after we signed Livermore, so they may not have been available  ;D

But I get what your saying.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on April 11, 2019, 04:58:03 PM
Totally pointless of me, but just had a quick look and Chalobah and Hughes both signed for Watford in pre season the transfer window after we signed Livermore, so they may not have been available  ;D

But I get what your saying.

Yeah, it's more about the kind of player we were going for than specific targets tbh.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wigmore on April 12, 2019, 04:30:48 PM
Yeah, it's more about the kind of player we were going for than specific targets tbh.
Also relevant to remember who was the manager at the time (with total control of signings).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 10, 2019, 07:20:25 PM
Takes some stick at times so only fair he gets credit as well, played well today, him and Sawyers will work well together over the season. A solid central pairing is something we have lacked for a while, now we have that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on August 10, 2019, 07:29:15 PM
Jake 93.30% (42/45) pass completions rate today.

And Sawyers 93.60% (73/78) pass completions

Statistically, good performances from both players
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boingboing1989 on August 10, 2019, 07:33:47 PM
Thought he had a great game today, won the ball and passed it off exactly what he needs to do.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbastrollers on August 10, 2019, 07:38:54 PM
Well, that won’t please some on this board - deserves to continue as 1st choice DM!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 10, 2019, 07:51:14 PM
He was very good today, seems to link up well with Sawyers and Vich.  Showed for the ball lots, got forward, didn't give it away. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on August 10, 2019, 08:29:46 PM
He did play well with Sawyers who also is a clever player,I thought Livermore looked fitter and slimmer than last season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 10, 2019, 08:38:49 PM
Played very well today, and he and Sawyers appear to have already hit it off. Actually thought Jake had a good game last week too, until he had a couple of slips which put us in trouble. I think he was suffering from heat exhaustion at that time, and had given everything.
He is much maligned, but I think if he and Romaine continue to gel we will be fine.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on September 01, 2019, 08:13:53 AM
Ok. I am here now to prove I'm big enough to hold my hands up and say I was wrong.

I've never been a fan of Livermore's and have always held the opinion that he's not good enough for the Albion and in my defence his performances have justified that opinion. Until now. This season, the second half at Forest apart (where he was awful), Jake has really looked the part putting in performances I didn't think he was capable of. He was excellent yesterday, his marking for their second goal apart. He seems to be getting around the pitch better, he's using the ball better, he's making forward runs, he's actually looking a different player.

I've held off making this post because one or two games don't make a player, to be a good player you have to be consistent and justify your worth over a number of games, given different challenges, different circumstances. We're six games into the season now and Jake has done really well for five and a half of them.

I now accept his worth and welcome his selection in the team. Let's hope he can continue to show his current level of performance for the rest of the season. At the moment he deserves praise he's getting.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Throstletown on September 01, 2019, 08:40:49 AM
I think the difference is that he is doing his own running and tackling this year, the other midfielders around are sharing responsibility. he does not  have a player whose head went down every time he lost it or the other one pointing at the obvious but not doing anything about it.
Different players shared responsibility in the centre.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Maresca Was A Baggie on September 01, 2019, 11:31:02 AM
Out of him and Sawyers, he seems to be the one making the runs forward. Looks a different player this year.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on September 01, 2019, 01:52:42 PM
I think his start to the season has surprised a lot of people. In my view, the arrival of Sawyers has allowed Jake to move further up the pitch. Some of his passing yesterday was excellent and was pleased when he scored the goal which in itself was a very well taken effort
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on September 01, 2019, 02:08:37 PM
Bossed it yesterday and has been good all season apart from the opener at Forest.
I believe this is what he's meant to be like. It's either a green patch or our previous managers weren't using him properly but hopefully it continues.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on September 01, 2019, 04:17:13 PM
Bossed it yesterday and has been good all season apart from the opener at Forest.
I believe this is what he's meant to be like. It's either a green patch or our previous managers weren't using him properly but hopefully it continues.

i like to think that he is being managed correctly now, but then again I do think Bilic is the best thing to happen to WBAFC since 2011 when Roy joined us
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbarenno on September 01, 2019, 04:20:06 PM
Bossed it yesterday and has been good all season apart from the opener at Forest.
I believe this is what he's meant to be like. It's either a green patch or our previous managers weren't using him properly but hopefully it continues.

Can’t remember Livermore being involved with the forest goal mate . Poor tracking back from Edwards , Bartley giving the forest player way to much time on the ball and Johnstone should have saved the shot.

Livermore has been superb this season, him and sawyers are a partnership that shouldn’t be touched
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on September 01, 2019, 04:22:52 PM
Can’t remember Livermore being involved with the forest goal mate . Poor tracking back from Edwards , Bartley giving the forest player way to much time on the ball and Johnstone should have saved the shot.

Livermore has been superb this season, him and sawyers are a partnership that shouldn’t be touched


I think he means the opening DAY at Forest. He was awful second half. Didn't look fit to be honest.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 01, 2019, 04:27:15 PM
Previously he has (unfairly) been asked to play with Brunt in CM meaning that he wasn't quite sure what his partner was going to do (other than wave his arms and continually be out of position due to his instance on taking everything including the mick)
Now he is part of a proper midfield and his performances have improved

Footballs not that difficult
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: colinmax on September 01, 2019, 08:59:14 PM
It has been my intention to write a scathing report on Livermore for some time because one can only comment on what one sees and basically he has been poor.
Yesterday would have justified any earlier poor appraisal because it showed what we have been lacking since he joined the club.
Yesterday he looked fit put some searching balls through their defence,had two purposeful shots one of which resulted in a good goal and arguably looked England class a total difference to his earlier     performances.
If this occurs he could be a real asset to the team..
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbarenno on September 01, 2019, 09:30:15 PM

I think he means the opening DAY at Forest. He was awful second half. Didn't look fit to be honest.

Yeah that makes sense now  :D when i read it I presumed opener was the opening goal for some reason .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on September 05, 2019, 05:30:46 PM
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/september2/how-jake-hit-the-refresh-button/

Interview on the OS.

Playing his best football since he came to the club and is captaining the side on merit these days, now has a central midfield partner who brings out the best in him, we've lacked this type of partnership for way too long.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on September 05, 2019, 05:54:52 PM
https://www.wba.co.uk/news/2019/september2/how-jake-hit-the-refresh-button/

Interview on the OS.

Playing his best football since he came to the club and is captaining the side on merit these days, now has a central midfield partner who brings out the best in him, we've lacked this type of partnership for way too long.

I think you've hit the nail on the head with this one. When Livermore played with Huddlestone next to him at Spurs and then Hull he looked like a much better player than the one we have seen for a few seasons. Huddlestone is/was a proper central midfielder, now Livermore has Sawyers next to him who is also a proper centre mid and low and behold Livermore looks a much better player.

He is also playing regularly in a 2, rather than the 3 he was part of for large parts of last season. He knows what he is doing in a 2, at times last season he looked lost in a 3.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 06, 2019, 09:01:11 AM
To be honest, I think he's doing better in part because he's trimmer and more athletic. He was carrying a lot of muscle the last 2 years, but seems to have trimmed down, and is quicker and more mobile because of it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiebof on September 06, 2019, 09:39:24 AM
To be honest, I think he's doing better in part because he's trimmer and more athletic. He was carrying a lot of muscle the last 2 years, but seems to have trimmed down, and is quicker and more mobile because of it.

This is certainly helping and he says as much himself in that interview.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on September 06, 2019, 08:08:40 PM
“I have made a conscious effort to try and trim down" - admission that last season he was too fat to play football properly. Shameful when you consider that was allowed in a professional football club trying to get promotion to the top flight.

"We have had a tough start to the season really, we have played some good sides already and I think it’s been a good test for us" - Err no Jay, that is complete utter tosh. We've had statistically the third easiest start in the whole league, hence why our next six games are really awkward.

I'm pleased he's playing better this season but 4/5 decent games isn't enough for two seasons of rubbish. So it' a bit early for the pat on the back from me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on September 06, 2019, 09:38:27 PM
You've got fat and muscle mixed up there.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 06, 2019, 10:19:33 PM
“I have made a conscious effort to try and trim down" - admission that last season he was too fat to play football properly. Shameful when you consider that was allowed in a professional football club trying to get promotion to the top flight.

"We have had a tough start to the season really, we have played some good sides already and I think it’s been a good test for us" - Err no Jay, that is complete utter tosh. We've had statistically the third easiest start in the whole league, hence why our next six games are really awkward.

I'm pleased he's playing better this season but 4/5 decent games isn't enough for two seasons of rubbish. So it' a bit early for the pat on the back from me.
Give the guy a break. He wasn’t fat. He was too muscle bound. He’s been advised to lose some of it, and now he’s a bit more mobile. As for an easy (statistically?) start, it’s too early to know whether it is or not. The next 40 odd games, never, mind six, are awkward. I’m reckon one of his reasons for a change in form may well be linked to a change in surrounding personnel.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on September 06, 2019, 10:42:59 PM
I always felt that big Vic was too muscular for w football player and Jake was definitely hitting the weights too much in my opinion
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on September 06, 2019, 10:47:58 PM
“I have made a conscious effort to try and trim down" - admission that last season he was too fat to play football properly. Shameful when you consider that was allowed in a professional football club trying to get promotion to the top flight.

"We have had a tough start to the season really, we have played some good sides already and I think it’s been a good test for us" - Err no Jay, that is complete utter tosh. We've had statistically the third easiest start in the whole league, hence why our next six games are really awkward.

I'm pleased he's playing better this season but 4/5 decent games isn't enough for two seasons of rubbish. So it' a bit early for the pat on the back from me.

Too fat? If he was fat I sure wish I was too  :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnnyg on September 06, 2019, 11:50:13 PM
“I have made a conscious effort to try and trim down" - admission that last season he was too fat to play football properly. Shameful when you consider that was allowed in a professional football club trying to get promotion to the top flight.

"We have had a tough start to the season really, we have played some good sides already and I think it’s been a good test for us" - Err no Jay, that is complete utter tosh. We've had statistically the third easiest start in the whole league, hence why our next six games are really awkward.

I'm pleased he's playing better this season but 4/5 decent games isn't enough for two seasons of rubbish. So it' a bit early for the pat on the back from me.

You're a very unforgiving person I'd say  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 07, 2019, 01:37:41 AM
He's still very poor, the people insinuating the likes of Krychowiak, Brunt, Barry, Johansen are to blame for him being poor are barmy to be honest.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on September 07, 2019, 08:16:35 AM
He's still very poor, the people insinuating the likes of Krychowiak, Brunt, Barry, Johansen are to blame for him being poor are barmy to be honest.

He is not giving poor performances this season, not at all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on September 07, 2019, 08:50:02 AM
He's still very poor, the people insinuating the likes of Krychowiak, Brunt, Barry, Johansen are to blame for him being poor are barmy to be honest.
I’ve only seen one of those being blamed
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on September 07, 2019, 09:01:39 AM
I've seen poor performances from him but Sawyers and him seem to be clicking. He still needs to improve a lot for me, however, i'm more than happy for him to be proving me wrong!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on September 07, 2019, 09:02:42 AM
He's still very poor, the people insinuating the likes of Krychowiak, Brunt, Barry, Johansen are to blame for him being poor are barmy to be honest.

Barmy is your continued posts about Livermore and Brunt when the facts that Livermore is playing well and Brunt is passed it are clear for everyone to see.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on September 07, 2019, 09:04:22 AM
I definitely don't think Brunt is past it, i think he has a part to play from the bench and can still make a positive impact on games. He's not a starter for me though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on September 07, 2019, 10:26:14 AM
I have never been a fan of Livermore although at the very beginning under Pulis I did hold out some hope that he might have improved our moribund midfield. That was quickly snuffed out and there was a telling decline in his pass completion rate (remember he came from Hull who were quite terrible) as he sank into the quagmire of nothingness that was the Pulis midfield.

In football there is a trade off between physical strength and mobility. Plainly the player has got the trade off wrong although in an immobile deep sitting block muscle matters more than mobility. However when we moved to something else under Moore  he was found wanting as were the rest of the less than dynamic trio of Livermore, Brunt and Barry. 

He has shed some of the bulk and it has transformed him as a player and it is churlish to deny it. However the other key difference is movement, not just his but from those around him. The basic principle of passing football is "pass and move" too frequently last year we passed and stood still making it easy for the opposition to regroup and close the ball down. This year there is movement the player on the ball has more than one static option to pass to and frankly it is easier for a central midfielder to look good in this environment than any we have had in the last 6 seasons.

Overall I am delighted to see progress from a player I had written off as a bit of an expensive dud.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on September 09, 2019, 12:51:22 PM
Barmy is your continued posts about Livermore and Brunt when the facts that Livermore is playing well and Brunt is passed it are clear for everyone to see.

To be fair, Livermore is bang average, and Brunt is the better footballer. The thing is we're now at a point where Brunt is at the tail-end of his career, while Livermore is at his peak.

Brunt still has a role as sub, but he will probably make more of a defining contribution in that role than Livemore would if he started all 46.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on September 09, 2019, 03:42:03 PM
I had him down as the only midfielder under Brunt in the pecking order but now Brunts right down at the botttom and Livermore has earnt his place.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on September 09, 2019, 10:18:06 PM
To be fair, Livermore is bang average, and Brunt is the better footballer. The thing is we're now at a point where Brunt is at the tail-end of his career, while Livermore is at his peak.

Brunt still has a role as sub, but he will probably make more of a defining contribution in that role than Livemore would if he started all 46.

Brunt definitely has been a more cultured footballer. But he’s done now and Livermore’s improved form means Brunt wouldn’t get near to a central midfield role. I think that’s fair enough - he’s had a solid career and finishes with the respect of the fans. His injury that stopped him getting to a tournament will be the biggest regret I’m sure.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 10, 2019, 01:11:16 AM
Brunt definitely has been a more cultured footballer. But he’s done now and Livermore’s improved form means Brunt wouldn’t get near to a central midfield role. I think that’s fair enough - he’s had a solid career and finishes with the respect of the fans. His injury that stopped him getting to a tournament will be the biggest regret I’m sure.


i) Not true.
ii) Not true.
iii) He's had a great career, for solid think the subject of this thread (and that's generous).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on September 10, 2019, 10:06:24 AM
I'm still not a fan and don't think he's been very good this season. Yes Blackburn was his best game for some time but still a long way to go before I'll be convinced. Sawyers definitely helps as he does a lot of the work Livermore can't such as tackling, passing and showing for the ball.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on September 10, 2019, 10:14:38 AM
I'm still not a fan and don't think he's been very good this season. Yes Blackburn was his best game for some time but still a long way to go before I'll be convinced. Sawyers definitely helps as he does a lot of the work Livermore can't such as tackling, passing and showing for the ball.

Sawyers passing has been pretty poor for the last few games. Livermore has been by far the better of the 2.
Apart from the opening game of the season Livermore has been good.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on September 10, 2019, 12:27:51 PM
Sawyers passing has been pretty poor for the last few games. Livermore has been by far the better of the 2.
Apart from the opening game of the season Livermore has been good.
All about opinions mate, I think he's been poor apart from Blackburn. Sawyers has struggled at times but overall has been  by far the better player and, given a choice between the two, would be my pick every time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on September 10, 2019, 12:37:54 PM
It really is all about opinions. I think both Sawyers and Livermore have made good starts to the season and compliment each other very well.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on September 10, 2019, 03:06:36 PM
He's a big tough looking bloke, but maybe he needs to "feel the love" a bit to be at his best, which I think is probably one of Bilic's strong suits, and ours as a club as well (most of the time!) - don't forget he has been through some personal stuff.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: keithowba86 on September 10, 2019, 05:31:36 PM
when hegazi is back, livermore shouldnt be in the 11, just my opinion though
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on September 10, 2019, 06:08:35 PM

i) Not true.
ii) Not true.
iii) He's had a great career, for solid think the subject of this thread (and that's generous).

If he’s that good then why have we had so few bids for him. I like him. But reality is reality
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: timdon on September 10, 2019, 10:31:05 PM
If he’s that good then why have we had so few bids for him. I like him. But reality is reality
Head
Wall
Banging.
PS Your original post was spot on btw.
With regard to Livermore, last season he had way too much muscle on him. This season he is slimmer and fitter, and has benefited from having younger and more mobile players beside him. I have never been his biggest fan but he is worth his place in the side at the minute without a doubt.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 10, 2019, 11:18:17 PM
Just look at what an International break has done to us. A handful of guys squabbling over Livermore and Brunt. I blame FIFA. And EUFA. And Brexit. And global warming. Roll on Saturday!!! ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on September 10, 2019, 11:20:06 PM
And goalkeepers!! :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on September 11, 2019, 08:51:06 AM
All about opinions mate, I think he's been poor apart from Blackburn. Sawyers has struggled at times but overall has been  by far the better player and, given a choice between the two, would be my pick every time.

Absolutely, we all see things differently.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Hegazi is fit and back in the back 4, will Bilic drop Bartley and keep Ajayi at CB or will he shuffle the midfield to put Ajayi in?

Personally I'd drop Bartley and the leave the Cm 2 as they are. I don't think Bartley has played that badly apart from a couple of real clangers but Ajayi has generally been the better of the two and Hegazi is better than both.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Powelly on September 11, 2019, 09:41:49 AM
when hegazi is back, livermore shouldnt be in the 11, just my opinion though

Hegazi to play centre midfield?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on September 11, 2019, 09:56:11 AM
Absolutely, we all see things differently.

It'll be interesting to see what happens when Hegazi is fit and back in the back 4, will Bilic drop Bartley and keep Ajayi at CB or will he shuffle the midfield to put Ajayi in?

Personally I'd drop Bartley and the leave the Cm 2 as they are. I don't think Bartley has played that badly apart from a couple of real clangers but Ajayi has generally been the better of the two and Hegazi is better than both.

Spot on.

Ultimately Bartley will always cost us goals and has to be used as a squad player to merely come in for injuries/suspensions, with Hegazi and Ajayi, in my humble opinion, likely to form the best central defensive partnership in the league.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2019, 02:25:54 PM
Woeful today. Game turned in our favour when he was subbed.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2019, 02:27:28 PM
Woeful today. Game turned in our favour when he was subbed.

No worse than anyone else but no surprise you're straight on the attack. 

The more impactful change was Edwards for Phillips, Edwards really got forward more.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 14, 2019, 02:31:16 PM
No worse than anyone else but no surprise you're straight on the attack. 

The more impactful change was Edwards for Phillips, Edwards really got forward more.


He was considerably worse than all of their midfield and the rest of ours.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2019, 02:32:14 PM
No worse than anyone else but no surprise you're straight on the attack. 

The more impactful change was Edwards for Phillips, Edwards really got forward more.

He was a passenger, a big immobile pudding with the game going on around him. Philips was also useless but was starved of the ball. Edwards had Kov linking and playing him in.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on September 14, 2019, 03:55:00 PM
He was poor today but overall has had a good season so far (apart from the opener at Forest where he was also poor).

I think the main thing is the bigger picture though and that's an improvement so I wouldn't drop him just yet. For me, Bilic is the only manager who has got a tune out of him so far.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on September 14, 2019, 05:20:35 PM
Tactics meant the whole midfield was bypassed so we can hardly single out one player for that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2019, 05:28:19 PM
He was a passenger, a big immobile pudding with the game going on around him. Philips was also useless but was starved of the ball. Edwards had Kov linking and playing him in.

He was more involved more and did more than Sawyers first half.  Is Sawyers a big immobile pudding too?

Massive over reaction to a game where pretty much no-one came out with any credit.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on September 14, 2019, 05:31:51 PM
He was more involved more and did more than Sawyers first half.  Is Sawyers a big immobile pudding too?

Massive over reaction to a game where pretty much no-one came out with any credit.

I beg to disagree. The only thing I saw Livermore do first half was pass the ball straight to a Fulham player. In contrast the switch of play in first half injury time from Sawyers was beyond anything I'd ever seen Livermore do. The Fulham team and Reed was all over Sawyers, they'd obviously targeted him as a key man to stop. Livermore was rubbish today, and until him and Phillips were subbed we had no chance. If you want to take a different view, be my guest.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on September 14, 2019, 06:16:41 PM
He was more involved more and did more than Sawyers first half.  Is Sawyers a big immobile pudding too?

Massive over reaction to a game where pretty much no-one came out with any credit.

Absolutely bang on. No worse than Sawyers or Phillips but this guy is always the scapegoat.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on September 14, 2019, 06:20:13 PM
Very poor today but so was Sawyers first half. Not a fan of hanging players out to dry after 1 bad game.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boingboing1989 on September 14, 2019, 07:25:49 PM
Worst game of the season for him but Sawyers was equally as poor. Had a good start, looks a lot better than last season. Overall been very good so far.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on September 14, 2019, 07:31:14 PM
Very poor today but so was Sawyers first half. Not a fan of hanging players out to dry after 1 bad game.

It's Livermore, some people were just waiting for him not to have a good game.  He really wasn't any worse than anyone else today.   I'd say Phillip's, Diangana, Pierera, Sawyers, Austin, Livermore... none of them played well.  First half they were all anonymous. 

It's harsh to pin the blame for that performance solely on Livermore imo.  The change of shape improved things. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: letmereadposts on September 14, 2019, 09:13:00 PM
Seriously harsh to criticise Livermore for that first half. Was at the game and Phillips, Diangana and Sawyers all deserved way worse feedback than him.

Livermore won the ball and protected the defence as best as he could. Particularly considering a completely absent (offensively and defensively) Phillips, off the boil Diangana and (considering Albion had bugger all of the ball in the first half) near completely redundant Sawyers.

He's leaner, keener and clearly much more motivated this term and was no worse than anyone else in the middle other than the very good Perianha.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on October 05, 2019, 06:32:15 PM
Another very good game from Jake. Seems more comfortable on the ball this year and always seems to be in the right place to turn possession back over to us.

Think he’s a good captain too. Saw him calming SJ down and telling him to get back in goal when he came rushing out to have a go at someone in the second half.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 05, 2019, 06:39:45 PM
Very good performance today from Jake. Good leader, just having a quiet word with his team-mates as required. No shouting  and bawling and throwing his arms around.Having a very good season for me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on October 05, 2019, 06:43:31 PM
I thought he was terrific today. Best performance for the club.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on October 05, 2019, 06:45:40 PM
Very good performance today from Jake. Good leader, just having a quiet word with his team-mates as required. No shouting  and bawling and throwing his arms around.Having a very good season for me.

Yep. Seems to be relishing as the leader in the team. It’s what is needed to be fair with the amount of youngsters we have
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on October 05, 2019, 07:11:55 PM
Credit where it’s due he was very good today and is ever improving. Calm on the ball and kept things simple.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 05, 2019, 07:29:13 PM
Excellent display from him. Constantly involved himself and encouraging . Long may it continue
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 05, 2019, 07:45:03 PM
He's all over the midfield because he can trust Sawyers to fill months gap.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 05, 2019, 08:57:25 PM
Just shows what having a proper central midfielder next to him can do for him and the team, excellent today, stupid booking but that apart excellent
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on October 05, 2019, 10:13:34 PM
Just shows what having a proper central midfielder next to him can do for him and the team, excellent today, stupid booking but that apart excellent

I’d say the tackle/foul needed to be made, but didnt put a foot wrong other than that
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on October 05, 2019, 10:24:54 PM
Outstanding today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on October 06, 2019, 08:19:08 AM
I thought he was really good yesterday and started to think last night who would replace him if injured or suspended. I’m not sure what the obvious player would be without Sam Field in the squad.

I don’t think it could be Brunt, Harper is out the team by a distance. Maybe Barry if he has any games left in him?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on October 06, 2019, 08:44:17 AM
I thought he was really good yesterday and started to think last night who would replace him if injured or suspended. I’m not sure what the obvious player would be without Sam Field in the squad.

I don’t think it could be Brunt, Harper is out the team by a distance. Maybe Barry if he has any games left in him?


I've wondered about that as well. We don't seem to have a like for like replacement, Sam Field would've been the obvious one. I hope Jake stays fit and in form because he plays an important role and I think it could have an affect on the team if he's missing.

I think Barry would be ideal cover for Sawyers more so than Livermore and I could see Krovinovic covering for Romaine as well.

Brunt doesn't have the legs and Harper I just don't think is that good.

If I was Slaven I'd be bringing Field back in January and sending Harper out on loan. But what do I know? lol.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: B_H_Baggie on October 06, 2019, 10:38:49 AM
I've been critical of him in his time here and I still feel it was deservedly so. I like to think I am fair though and have praised him this season, seems to be less top heavy giving him a little more mobility and he now has some legs around him that helps him out too and it least he's starting to look forward with his passing instead of the backwards and sideways stuff we have been so used to.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BigFrank20 on October 06, 2019, 10:57:42 AM
I thought he was really good yesterday and started to think last night who would replace him if injured or suspended. I’m not sure what the obvious player would be without Sam Field in the squad.

I don’t think it could be Brunt, Harper is out the team by a distance. Maybe Barry if he has any games left in him?
Suspension is the most likely scenario if he keeps taking one for the team and the corresponding yellow card
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on October 06, 2019, 11:00:54 AM
Suspension is the most likely scenario if he keeps taking one for the team and the corresponding yellow card


Interestingly Jake has only picked up one booking this season. Sawyers has most bookings, 4.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 06, 2019, 04:32:00 PM

Interestingly Jake has only picked up one booking this season. Sawyers has most bookings, 4.

Probably a fair few covering for Jake giving the ball away :)

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 06, 2019, 05:11:35 PM
I still don't rate him especially highly, but he had a very good game yesterday - I was impressed.

His burst forward, carrying the ball for Diangana's goal was great. Haven't seen that from him in years, long may it continue.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jack Thrust on October 06, 2019, 06:03:46 PM
His burst forward, carrying the ball for Diangana's goal was great. Haven't seen that from him in years, long may it continue.

It took me a while to work out who that was because it never occurred to me it might be Livermore! Great to see the desire in him to get forward.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on October 07, 2019, 06:32:27 AM
Probably a fair few covering for Jake giving the ball away :)

Sawyers has lost possession more often and had more unsuccessful touches than Livermore.

I know this is deeply ingrained but Livermore 3.0 is a significant upgrade on the earlier versions that were running on the old analogue Pulis based platform and fans of the WBA game franchise need to find a new multi purpose gripe.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 07, 2019, 09:47:20 AM
Sawyers has lost possession more often and had more unsuccessful touches than Livermore.

I know this is deeply ingrained but Livermore 3.0 is a significant upgrade on the earlier versions that were running on the old analogue Pulis based platform and fans of the WBA game franchise need to find a new multi purpose gripe.

Please Stan, please do not use that Americansportspeak,  does my swede in, proper, like!

Many thanks in anticipation
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 07, 2019, 10:38:55 AM
Stan is bang on the money though...…… :)

Great post
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 07, 2019, 10:46:33 AM
Stan is bang on the money though...…… :)

Great post

Sam is still in the frame though !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on October 07, 2019, 12:40:09 PM
Please Stan, please do not use that Americansportspeak,  does my swede in, proper, like!

Many thanks in anticipation

Sorry just paradying video game speak. Chill dude.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on October 07, 2019, 06:41:32 PM
Sawyers has lost possession more often and had more unsuccessful touches than Livermore.

I know this is deeply ingrained but Livermore 3.0 is a significant upgrade on the earlier versions that were running on the old analogue Pulis based platform and fans of the WBA game franchise need to find a new multi purpose gripe.

Exactly. For some on here they just can’t let it go. I think what we are seeing now is the real Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 07, 2019, 07:18:50 PM
Sawyers has lost possession more often and had more unsuccessful touches than Livermore.

I know this is deeply ingrained but Livermore 3.0 is a significant upgrade on the earlier versions that were running on the old analogue Pulis based platform and fans of the WBA game franchise need to find a new multi purpose gripe.

Unfortunately what you’ve said above is plain wrong.
-Sawyers has made 704 passes this season, average of 62 per game with a pass completion rate of 92%.
-Livermore has made 462 passes, average of 42 per game with a pass completion of 84%.

Sawyers makes on average 20 passes a game more than Livermore and has a higher pass completion rate. Jake is playing much better this season but he’s not a patch on Romaine and never will be.

Anyone interested can find the player stats here:
https://www.infogol.net/en/team/west-bromwich-albion/168
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boingboing1989 on October 07, 2019, 07:25:29 PM
Unfortunately what you’ve said above is plain wrong.
-Sawyers has made 704 passes this season, average of 62 per game with a pass completion rate of 92%.
-Livermore has made 462 passes, average of 42 per game with a pass completion of 84%.

Sawyers makes on average 20 passes a game more than Livermore and has a higher pass completion rate. Jake is playing much better this season but he’s not a patch on Romaine and never will be.

Anyone interested can find the player stats here:
https://www.infogol.net/en/team/west-bromwich-albion/168

Any stats on how many times Romaine has been dispossessed of the ball as he's done that an awful lot more than Jake Livermore this season. Don't get me wrong Romaine is absolutely brilliant but he needs Livermore doing the dirty work for him. Livermore is another who has been branded 'poor' and will never lose that tag with some people despite being Mr Consistent this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 07, 2019, 07:33:13 PM
He's been Mr Consistent throughout his tenure at the club. Consistently poor.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on October 07, 2019, 08:10:37 PM
Unfortunately what you’ve said above is plain wrong.
-Sawyers has made 704 passes this season, average of 62 per game with a pass completion rate of 92%.
-Livermore has made 462 passes, average of 42 per game with a pass completion of 84%.

Sawyers makes on average 20 passes a game more than Livermore and has a higher pass completion rate. Jake is playing much better this season but he’s not a patch on Romaine and never will be.

Anyone interested can find the player stats here:
https://www.infogol.net/en/team/west-bromwich-albion/168


The quote I was responding to was suggesting that Sawyers was covering for Livermore's loss of possession. The relevant stat is not pass completion but dispossession available on Who Scored Sawyers 1.2 per 90 v Livermore 0.6 per 90.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on October 07, 2019, 08:12:50 PM
He's been Mr Consistent throughout his tenure at the club. Consistently poor.

Not now though. He is quite clearly playing well now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 07, 2019, 09:40:35 PM
Unfortunately what you’ve said above is plain wrong.
-Sawyers has made 704 passes this season, average of 62 per game with a pass completion rate of 92%.
-Livermore has made 462 passes, average of 42 per game with a pass completion of 84%.

Sawyers makes on average 20 passes a game more than Livermore and has a higher pass completion rate. Jake is playing much better this season but he’s not a patch on Romaine and never will be.

Anyone interested can find the player stats here:
https://www.infogol.net/en/team/west-bromwich-albion/168

You would also need to take into account where the passes are made. Livermore has been playing more forward than Sawyers.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnnyg on October 07, 2019, 09:46:38 PM
He's been Mr Consistent throughout his tenure at the club. Consistently poor.

At least you are consistent yourself. Consistently wrong.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on October 07, 2019, 10:07:13 PM
As usual with stats there are numerous possible contributing factors. Sawyers will be seen as our play-maker and so teams will be attempting to disrupt his game as much as possible. Stating the obvious the important things is that Livermore and Sawyers are playing well in the heart of the team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 07, 2019, 10:50:46 PM
He's been Mr Consistent throughout his tenure at the club. Consistently poor.

That is simply no longer true.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 07, 2019, 11:16:00 PM

The quote I was responding to was suggesting that Sawyers was covering for Livermore's loss of possession. The relevant stat is not pass completion but dispossession available on Who Scored Sawyers 1.2 per 90 v Livermore 0.6 per 90.
Surely a stay that needs context, if I attempt 1000 passed and complete 80%, but Jacko attempts 100 and completed 90% is Jacko a better player also if I attempt to pass through the eye of a needle to create match defining situations whereas Jacko simply drops the ball off to a more positive player are the numbers relevant? Let's be honest here Romaine is a far better player technically than Jake and has contributed more to us being where we are, not withstanding that the recent performances from Jake are far better than previously seen
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on October 08, 2019, 01:09:26 AM
Surely a stay that needs context, if I attempt 1000 passed and complete 80%, but Jacko attempts 100 and completed 90% is Jacko a better player also if I attempt to pass through the eye of a needle to create match defining situations whereas Jacko simply drops the ball off to a more positive player are the numbers relevant? Let's be honest here Romaine is a far better player technically than Jake and has contributed more to us being where we are, not withstanding that the recent performances from Jake are far better than previously seen

I am not even trying to argue the case that Livermore is better than Sawyers all I am saying is that Sawyers is not covering for Livermore being dispossessed which is something quite specific.  They are different players they compliment each other they are not particularly interchangeable although they tend to occupy the same space on the pitch.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on October 08, 2019, 09:07:03 AM
Jacko's right though, he has been consistently poor since he's been here. We have had a few false dawns, in the past, where he looks like he's found his feet but he's never sustained it. Maybe this time he will, I certainly hope so, because him and Sawyers have looked decent in recent weeks. Needs to keep it going a bit longer and continue to improve though, before I'm fully convinced.
Stats get thrown about like confetti, I prefer to trust my own eyes and what I see is a player who has been poor for a few seasons, getting better, and I think it's down to having better players around him and a system that suits him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on October 08, 2019, 09:15:03 AM
I think Livermore has been excellent this season myself, but as with everyone in that team there is still room for improvement. Thats the most exciting thing for me, top, playing well and can still get better.

I will call out Livermore when he is playing badly, I will also credit him when he is playing well. Pretty much how I treat all players.

Lets not have a scapegoat and be blinded by previous bad performances so that we cannot see or give credit when he plays well.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 08, 2019, 10:18:43 AM
I think Livermore has been excellent this season myself, but as with everyone in that team there is still room for improvement. Thats the most exciting thing for me, top, playing well and can still get better.

I will call out Livermore when he is playing badly, I will also credit him when he is playing well. Pretty much how I treat all players.

Lets not have a scapegoat and be blinded by previous bad performances so that we cannot see or give credit when he plays well.

Sensible post Tom, and my thoughts entirely.

Many of our players were poor under Pulis, not just Jake. Unfortunately some of us always have to blame someone...….

I thought Jake was excellent on Saturday, a real workhorse who got stuck in and made things happen. I really am not in the slightest bit bothered about who has completed the most successful passes etc, all I am seeing is Jake and Romaine working together as a very solid unit in front of the defence, and them working to cover each other when required. Something we have not seen for quite some time......long may it continue.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 08, 2019, 12:57:01 PM
Sensible post Tom, and my thoughts entirely.

Many of our players were poor under Pulis, not just Jake. Unfortunately some of us always have to blame someone...….

I thought Jake was excellent on Saturday, a real workhorse who got stuck in and made things happen. I really am not in the slightest bit bothered about who has completed the most successful passes etc, all I am seeing is Jake and Romaine working together as a very solid unit in front of the defence, and them working to cover each other when required. Something we have not seen for quite some time......long may it continue.

How very true. We do have to be concerned about who takes over when one of them is not available though. I see no obvious candidate other than Barry if available. Krovinovic would not, in my view, work well in the deeper lying roles that these guys operate.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 08, 2019, 01:07:35 PM
How very true. We do have to be concerned about who takes over when one of them is not available though. I see no obvious candidate other than Barry if available. Krovinovic would not, in my view, work well in the deeper lying roles that these guys operate.

 Barry / Harper / Field (re-call) / Ajayi (Hegazi back) / Brunt, in that order
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on October 08, 2019, 01:37:00 PM
How very true. We do have to be concerned about who takes over when one of them is not available though. I see no obvious candidate other than Barry if available. Krovinovic would not, in my view, work well in the deeper lying roles that these guys operate.

We have the option of using Ajayi in there as well in an emergency once Hegazi is up and running
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 08, 2019, 09:38:00 PM
Midfield is like Night and Day when compared to 2018/19 season.  I maintained that we conceded far too many shots from 20 yards simply because the midfield weren't energetic enough to close down.  Many people solely pointed the finger at Johnstone/Bartley. 

No need to re-sign Barry (Harper would be better), Morrison hasn't re-signed anywhere and pretty sure Brunt doesn't want to move house to play elsewhere.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on October 09, 2019, 02:10:01 PM
I think Jacko is right in saying, He's been Mr Consistent throughout his tenure at the club. Consistently poor,
but this season he has stepped up his allround game & one could say he's been Mr Consistent since the start of the season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 15, 2019, 12:47:52 AM
We have been lucky this season with regard to injuries and suspension, but if we lose Jake, his doubters will see his value to the  team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on October 15, 2019, 08:18:42 AM
We have been lucky this season with regard to injuries and suspension, but if we lose Jake, his doubters will see his value to the  team.


This is one of my fears as well, especially given the role he plays and that we don't really have a similar enough replacement. I understand the need to get Sam Field playing football again hence sending him out on loan but unless we do some business in January I'd recall him for the second half of the season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 15, 2019, 08:58:38 AM

This is one of my fears as well, especially given the role he plays and that we don't really have a similar enough replacement. I understand the need to get Sam Field playing football again hence sending him out on loan but unless we do some business in January I'd recall him for the second half of the season.

I've heard we may recall him and send them Rekeem Harper back.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbarenno on October 15, 2019, 09:49:40 AM
I've heard we may recall him and send them Rekeem Harper back.

I’d rather be starting harper in our side then field . Personally think Harper’s a lot better. How many managers haven’t played Field . The numbers getting bigger and he is struggling to get in the charlton side now
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 15, 2019, 11:34:30 AM
If Jake was out I'd start Krov in his place.  Not a like for like but I think we'd cope ok.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 15, 2019, 11:40:52 AM
I’d rather be starting harper in our side then field . Personally think Harper’s a lot better. How many managers haven’t played Field . The numbers getting bigger and he is struggling to get in the charlton side now

Pulis and Pardew both played him only Moore/Jones and Bilic haven't.

He's been more of a sub for Charlton this season but Charlton's midfield is pretty solid. Has been good when he has come on, provided a couple of goal saving blocks. Was lucky not to have had a red card a few games back for a lunge though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: NJS on October 15, 2019, 12:27:11 PM
I’d rather be starting harper in our side then field . Personally think Harper’s a lot better. How many managers haven’t played Field . The numbers getting bigger and he is struggling to get in the charlton side now

Harper has real talent but has he the drive?  He doesn't seem to know where to put himself when the opposition have the ball.  Be really happy if Bilic manages to get him playing.   If its a replacement/sub for Livermore I would choose Field. 
I actually think that Krovinovic puts himself about.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbarenno on October 15, 2019, 07:49:52 PM
Pulis and Pardew both played him only Moore/Jones and Bilic haven't.

He's been more of a sub for Charlton this season but Charlton's midfield is pretty solid. Has been good when he has come on, provided a couple of goal saving blocks. Was lucky not to have had a red card a few games back for a lunge though.

Pulis and pardew played him yes but for how many games? They dropped him pretty quick from what I can remember. He certainly wasn’t a staple in their sides .

Id say pulis pardew Moore and bilic have all passed on Sam field . Now it’s looking like or bowyer is aswell. Which tells you something. He is 21 now , certainly not a kid anymore , should be starting week in week out now
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 15, 2019, 07:51:20 PM
We have been lucky this season with regard to injuries and suspension, but if we lose Jake, his doubters will see his value to the  team.


Won't be remotely missed.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 15, 2019, 08:40:42 PM

Won't be remotely missed.
Not by you he won't , but fortunately you do not speak for everyone .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on October 16, 2019, 09:17:41 AM
Always looked a better player going forward, Bilic's way suits him
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on October 16, 2019, 10:52:01 AM
I am not sure whether my views on Livermore have changed at all, I still see him as an extremely limited footballer and my eyes do not lie to me when I see him shanking anything other than a five yard pass miles wide of their target, but he has finally now reached the point where he is adding to the team what I assumed he would add when he first signed for us, a bit of athleticism in the middle of the park and the ability to get about the pitch to enable the players with more ability to thrive. It is noticeable that he has trimmed down, or lost some of the muscle that was weighing him down at least, and we are reaping the rewards this season. No one will ever convince me he has anything but shovels for feet, however.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 16, 2019, 12:52:36 PM

Won't be remotely missed.

Yes he would be. Can we not give credit where it is due, regardless of who we are discussing?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 16, 2019, 01:20:40 PM
Yes he would be. Can we not give credit where it is due, regardless of who we are discussing?


We have ample replacements several of which would improve the team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 16, 2019, 01:29:59 PM

We have ample replacements several of which would improve the team.

Rearrange these letters by any chance?  "Burnt"
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on October 16, 2019, 01:30:49 PM

We have ample replacements several of which would improve the team.

See, I'm not so sure on this as we stand.

Brunt is too slow, and is rightfully being phased out.

Barry has also slowed down, and will surely struggle to play 90 minutes going forward.

Krovinovic would leave us imbalanced.

Harper does a different type of job, but his inexperience would leave us weaker.

Technically, all of them are better players than Livermore. But the balance and mix in the team would be wrong.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on October 16, 2019, 01:48:07 PM
See, I'm not so sure on this as we stand.

Brunt is too slow, and is rightfully being phased out.

Barry has also slowed down, and will surely struggle to play 90 minutes going forward.

Krovinovic would leave us imbalanced.

Harper does a different type of job, but his inexperience would leave us weaker.

Technically, all of them are better players than Livermore. But the balance and mix in the team would be wrong.
I think of we have Ajayi and Hegazi at CB as the season wears on, we could afford to have  a more adventurous/lightweight player in for as those two will command much more space than with Bartley on the pitch, who isn't so confident at bringing the ball out (and rightly so!)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 16, 2019, 07:07:43 PM

We have ample replacements several of which would improve the team.

Name one
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 16, 2019, 07:14:36 PM
Name one
Give me a B
Give me an R......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on October 16, 2019, 07:34:03 PM
Name one
Ajayi is the only one I can think of who would probably do a better or at least equal job in Livermore's position.I would be alright with that but it would upset all the Bartley detractors with him having to play alongside Hegazi.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnnyg on October 16, 2019, 09:26:02 PM

Won't be remotely missed.

You are just being silly now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 16, 2019, 09:46:01 PM
Name one


Brunt, Krovinović, Barry (when signed), Harper, Field (if recalled).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on October 16, 2019, 10:29:09 PM
only a madman would change something that's working ok.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 16, 2019, 10:49:44 PM

Brunt, Krovinović, Barry (when signed), Harper, Field (if recalled).

This gets better. None of those would be as good. A fully fit Barry maybe, but that’s it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on October 17, 2019, 10:01:31 AM
Confucius He say, “once you have dug yourself into a hole, stop digging”
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: glosterbaggie on October 17, 2019, 05:54:20 PM
Jacko would. Ermm Say no more.
Yes but we need the Gentleman.
Every site needs a comedian!  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on October 17, 2019, 08:06:52 PM
Yes but we need the Gentleman.
Every site needs a comedian!  ;D ;D

Or good guy / bad guy in one   :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: glosterbaggie on October 17, 2019, 09:08:03 PM
Or good guy / bad guy in one   :)
I think he is a bit of a tease! Oldbury loves him really.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wigmore on November 28, 2019, 02:29:42 PM
I didn't notice at the match last night, but when MP scored his goal (and what a free kick!) Livermore's reaction was bizarre.
When the ball hit the net, JL looked at the ground, his shoulders slumped, and he started to walk away from the celebrating players. It was as if WBA had just conceded, not scored! Weird.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11872065/west-brom-4-1-bristol-city
(30 seconds in)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on November 28, 2019, 02:38:02 PM
I didn't notice at the match last night, but when MP scored his goal (and what a free kick!) Livermore's reaction was bizarre.
When the ball hit the net, JL looked at the ground, his shoulders slumped, and he started to walk away from the celebrating players. It was as if WBA had just conceded, not scored! Weird.

https://www.skysports.com/watch/video/sports/football/11872065/west-brom-4-1-bristol-city
(30 seconds in)
Yes very weird. Maybe it was a gesture of what chance have us mere mortals got of looking good - definitely a strange one.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on November 28, 2019, 02:55:50 PM
Yes very weird. Maybe it was a gesture of what chance have us mere mortals got of looking good - definitely a strange one.
Very strange. Looks like he backed 1-0.
For those who like a conspiracy theory there's no sign of Jake in any of the celebrations of Perreira's goals this season. Nor did Perreira join in when Jake scored at Hull, despite the assist.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiebuckster on November 28, 2019, 03:04:26 PM
No need to worry. Watch the same video when Robson Kanu scores - Livermore and Pereira celebrate together.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on November 28, 2019, 05:13:00 PM
Maybe Jake has had an ill thought out wager with Pereira re number of goals this season.

He seemed to be trudging towards the sidelines so maybe he'd been summoned by Slaven for a post goal word in the ear.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 28, 2019, 07:38:11 PM
He also 'seemed' to be actively discouraging the referee from booking BC players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on November 28, 2019, 07:56:49 PM
He also 'seemed' to be actively discouraging the referee from booking BC players.

Don’t get that one.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on November 28, 2019, 09:33:19 PM
He also 'seemed' to be actively discouraging the referee from booking BC players.
Really don't get you we have one of the best home performances of the season and you still manage to have little digs at certain players it's starting to look like you have some sort of vendetta going on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnnyg on November 28, 2019, 10:02:10 PM
He also 'seemed' to be actively discouraging the referee from booking BC players.

Yawn.
Change the record.
You must be still in shock when Bruntys name didnt even appear in the squad last night.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on November 28, 2019, 10:09:10 PM
I prefer Livermore's general demeanour as captain to Brunt's. Brunt had/has a habit of bearing down on refs and shouting in their face.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 28, 2019, 10:41:49 PM
Just something I noticed watching the game. He played okay, no complaints, was just a bit odd as you usually expect them to want opposition getting booked.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on November 28, 2019, 10:56:28 PM
Just something I noticed watching the game. He played okay, no complaints, was just a bit odd as you usually expect them to want opposition getting booked.
maybe mind games, pretend that you just want a nice even match by defending them...then when there is a bad one and you are vocal ? 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on November 28, 2019, 11:01:55 PM
Just something I noticed watching the game. He played okay, no complaints, was just a bit odd as you usually expect them to want opposition getting booked.

Utter nonsense.  How do you know what JL was saying?  How do you know what the circumstances are.  There's no need to start these kind of rumours if you're an actual fan.  Pretty disgusting.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 28, 2019, 11:04:35 PM
Utter nonsense.  How do you know what JL was saying?  How do you know what the circumstances are.  There's no need to start these kind of rumours if you're an actual fan.  Pretty disgusting.


Haha, there's nothing disgusting about it. Just an observation.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on November 28, 2019, 11:36:32 PM
2 casts 5 bites not bad going at all
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on November 28, 2019, 11:48:56 PM
Seems to be having his best season for us. I’d still like to upgrade him if we get promotion but i’m glad that i’m finally getting to see the Jake Livermore we thought we were buying a few years ago.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on November 29, 2019, 12:08:48 AM
Seems to be having his best season for us. I’d still like to upgrade him if we get promotion but i’m glad that i’m finally getting to see the Jake Livermore we thought we were buying a few years ago.
He's having a decent season, but like many others I think when we signed him  we've mostly seen the player we knew we was getting which was mostly just average, like you say it's the best we've seen of him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Political Cake on November 29, 2019, 04:22:50 AM
Bite 6.
You know that feeling when you are unavoidably attracted to things that hurt you?
We all know the best irritant is, ultimately, to ignore. A vacuum of attention is, in its own way, deafening.
The phrase is "entertaining a view" for good reason!

Maybe think a bit more about your replies and I wouldn't need to be patronising.
This quote will stay here as an example of the inevitable result.
Mind you, I assure you that I can be an awful lot more patronising in general to any of you if required! ;D


We're all welcome to write largely what we think given boundaries of decency, legitimacy, and benefit of the doubt for intention.
But, for now, please avoid personal jibes and remember it's just a light discussion about one of our players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 29, 2019, 09:02:05 AM

Haha, there's nothing disgusting about it. Just an observation.

it's an assumption based on an observation. Was it an observation you made at the match or were you watching on tv?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on November 29, 2019, 09:07:55 AM
I hate overcelebrations anyway, so I'm glad if anyone stays calm
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 29, 2019, 09:25:34 AM
it's an assumption based on an observation. Was it an observation you made at the match or were you watching on tv?


Close up tv pictures. What's the big issue here?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on November 29, 2019, 09:42:02 AM

Close up tv pictures. What's the big issue here?

It seems like you can't criticise his performances so now you're literally inventing scenarios to have a pop at him for. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on November 29, 2019, 09:50:06 AM
It seems like you can't criticise his performances so now you're literally inventing scenarios to have a pop at him for.


Why no outcry/witch hunt for the guy saying he's had a falling out with Pereira? Mind boggles with you fellas sometimes... It was just something I noticed, ironically after Williams went through the back of Jake's mate.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 29, 2019, 09:55:16 AM

Close up tv pictures. What's the big issue here?

No big issue, just asking how you came to your assumption.
 I saw Livermore speak to the ref a few times, on more than one occasion he appeared to be pointing out where a player had committed fouls already, which would lead me to assume that he was asking why the Bristol wasn't being booked.
Before you ask I can't remember which Bristol player it was as there were a number that were going unpunished for fouls.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wigmore on November 29, 2019, 09:56:53 AM

Why no outcry/witch hunt for the guy saying he's had a falling out with Pereira? Mind boggles with you fellas sometimes... It was just something I noticed, ironically after Williams went through the back of Jake's mate.
Because nobody has said he's had a falling out with Pereira? ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on November 29, 2019, 10:00:30 AM
Because nobody has said he's had a falling out with Pereira? ;D

I've only just noticed it was you who started all of this  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on November 29, 2019, 10:03:43 AM
Because nobody has said he's had a falling out with Pereira? ;D

In Jacko's defence (I never thought i'd ever type that....  ;D) it was implied by a couple of comments there may be something inferred from the lack of celebrating each others goals...

*Edit*
One of which I just realised was you   ::)

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on November 29, 2019, 10:05:08 AM
To be honest I was surprised he wasn't booked himself, I thought the ref was a bit generous all round
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on November 29, 2019, 10:51:18 AM
To be honest I was surprised he wasn't booked himself, I thought the ref was a bit generous all round
Maybe it's a deliberate strategy?
There were times when he seemed to be playing down Bristol tackles and, instead instead of screaming for a card, he remained calm and appeared to encourage common sense.
Deliberate or not, the end result was zero Baggies bookings, including Jake himself who, as you say, could have easily picked one up.
Personally, I hope it is an ongoing plan as I hate the petulant, angry, surrounding of the ref.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on November 29, 2019, 11:06:48 AM
Maybe it's a deliberate strategy?
There were times when he seemed to be playing down Bristol tackles and, instead instead of screaming for a card, he remained calm and appeared to encourage common sense.
Deliberate or not, the end result was zero Baggies bookings, including Jake himself who, as you say, could have easily picked one up.
Personally, I hope it is an ongoing plan as I hate the petulant, angry, surrounding of the ref.

Reverse psychology  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wigmore on November 29, 2019, 11:10:47 AM
Maybe we should start castigating him for chatting so amicably with a la-di-da Vile fan at the Great Barr training ground.
Disgusting!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on November 29, 2019, 11:30:04 AM
He also 'seemed' to be actively discouraging the referee from booking BC players.

Do you know what I thought the same aswell

Quite a number of times he was arguing with the ref and looking to deter him talking to the BC player

I thought it seemed strange at the time

First time I thought it was just him being decent and even calming a situation down but 2nd/3rd time after it registered as being strange
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on November 29, 2019, 11:35:27 AM
I’m sure it was Jake being a captain, reasonable when nothing really bad had happened other than niggly fouls. I’d rather that kind of captain if I’m honest.

Perhaps it was tactical based on watching Bristol City tactics in other games?? Be interested to see if they rely on winding the other team up and the fans to gain an advantage with clever fouls and exaggerating fouls on them with over zealous expressions of faux pain and getting reactions from the team they are playing to get cards handed out etc


There could be a multitude of reasons
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BigFrank20 on November 29, 2019, 11:36:30 AM
You can't beat a good conspiracy theory can you?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on November 29, 2019, 11:45:36 AM
He's in a purple patch right now thats for sure, playing better than when he made the England squad.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DurhamBaggie on November 29, 2019, 01:14:25 PM
I’ve noticed it a few times with JL and MP.

Whenever MP dives (and he does from time to time) JL always consoles the opposition player.

I think our boys know he dives and is a little melodramatic when he feels contact.

Just my opinion 🤭🤭
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on November 29, 2019, 11:58:17 PM
Saw him blow snot out of his nose once. A bogie may have come out too, not sure but I'll moan about it anyway just in case. Disgusting. Off my Christmas card list now. Going to buy tissues in the morning so I can blow my own nose when I cry about it. And another thing. Why does he always wink at people, look happy and smile like a Cheshire cat? He's got too many teeth. Boooooooo, never trust a man with a big smile who looks like he's enjoying life. Especially one who's had a good season so far. Can't stand happy players who are playing well, makes me seethe.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on November 30, 2019, 08:11:36 AM
Playing the best stuff of his career in my view and fully deserving of the role of captain in our exciting team. Long  may it continue.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: buzzingbaggie on November 30, 2019, 08:57:41 AM
Saw him blow snot out of his nose once. A bogie may have come out too, not sure but I'll moan about it anyway just in case. Disgusting. Off my Christmas card list now. Going to buy tissues in the morning so I can blow my own nose when I cry about it. And another thing. Why does he always wink at people, look happy and smile like a Cheshire cat? He's got too many teeth. Boooooooo, never trust a man with a big smile who looks like he's enjoying life. Especially one who's had a good season so far. Can't stand happy players who are playing well, makes me seethe.

I once saw him helping others. I immediately demanded he was stoned to death.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on November 30, 2019, 11:46:52 AM
Some of you are watching too much TV, try watching the game live, you will not see nearly as much of the detail as you seem to be seeing on Sky. I think we will have to get shut of Jake, rubbish player and Captain, too friendly with the opposition, does not  celebrate our goals correctly, personally I don't much care for his boots , but he is having a great season, and those who can't see that are ....... well.....I despair.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on December 01, 2019, 08:55:19 AM
Some of you are watching too much TV, try watching the game live, you will not see nearly as much of the detail as you seem to be seeing on Sky. I think we will have to get shut of Jake, rubbish player and Captain, too friendly with the opposition, does not  celebrate our goals correctly, personally I don't much care for his boots , but he is having a great season, and those who can't see that are ....... well.....I despair.
You do realize you can go to the game and watch the highlights later?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DurhamBaggie on December 01, 2019, 09:55:18 AM
I wasn’t being critical of Jake.

Just an observation.

I agree he is playing very well.

Difficult for me to get to many games as I live in Durham and coach my sons under 7s team on a Saturday morning.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 01, 2019, 12:30:31 PM
I wasn’t being critical of Jake.

Just an observation.

I agree he is playing very well.

Difficult for me to get to many games as I live in Durham and coach my sons under 7s team on a Saturday morning.
Was not aimed at anyone in particular, but despite his good form , some still seem anxious to try to discredit him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on December 02, 2019, 12:57:55 PM
You realise what he currently offers when he doesn't play (Sheff Weds at home)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Webby on December 02, 2019, 10:31:20 PM
Think he needs to have a pop a bit more when receiving ball on edge of area, clearly has a good strike on him
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 08, 2019, 09:35:58 PM
Excellent performance from Jake today, second only to the magician.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Nocky on December 08, 2019, 10:01:19 PM
He's been excellent all season to be fair. A changed man under Slaven.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 08, 2019, 11:06:41 PM
Excellent performance from Jake today, second only to the magician.

 Both fullbacks, Ajayi, Sawyers, Diangana, Phillips and Robson-Kanu all better today. There were 5 first half minutes that summed Jake up. Had a chance to slip GD in and sent him miles wide. Then got ball stuck under his feet in the box, then blasted straight at the keeper unchallenged from 25 yards.


He's poor. I'd go as far as to say we carry him to an extent.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggie79 on December 08, 2019, 11:50:37 PM
Never been a fan but I must say he has been great all season but today he was superb. Proper leader now and when he is out it clearly shows how important he is.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on December 09, 2019, 12:12:08 AM
I think Jake has been superb this season myself

He still has flaws and times in the game where decisions are a bit wayward but overall he’s been terrific and a real leader on the pitch for us
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Aussie Baggie on December 09, 2019, 12:49:11 AM
I've had no trouble with Jake this season.  I think he's led well and if you watch games at the end, you'll see just how much the players love him.

Others on this forum seem clouded in their judgement and to be honest I don't really understand why they feel that way.

He wasn't good under Pulis, Pardew and Moore but seems to have blossomed under Bilic.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: chipperclark on December 09, 2019, 02:55:37 AM
 ;D He was absolutely superb today and his combination with Sawyers is bang on. Playing his best football since he has been at the Albion. :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on December 09, 2019, 06:43:17 AM
It's a good job we got rid of Barry, Morrison and Brunt from that tortoise midfield last season.  It was the major factor we didn't get promoted last season and finished 4th.  People moaned about the defence and keeper but we could boast Johnstone, Holgate, Gibbs, Dawson and Hegazi who were well over par for the Championship. The intelligent Bilic saw this early and thankfully changed it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on December 09, 2019, 07:06:44 AM
Yes agree with everyone else, was superb again yesterday.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on December 09, 2019, 07:13:58 AM
Guys can we cut out the digs on other members posts and stick to discussing the topic
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on December 09, 2019, 07:27:10 AM
I think he's an important integral part to the way Bilic sets his side up to play.
Yes he has his flaws but if he didn't he'd still be playing for Spurs.
Fletcher wasn't a great player but was a great captain, I think Livermore falls into this category
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Nocky on December 09, 2019, 08:12:12 AM

Both fullbacks, Ajayi, Sawyers, Diangana, Phillips and Robson-Kanu all better today. There were 5 first half minutes that summed Jake up. Had a chance to slip GD in and sent him miles wide. Then got ball stuck under his feet in the box, then blasted straight at the keeper unchallenged from 25 yards.


He's poor. I'd go as far as to say we carry him to an extent.

Quality performance from Jake again today. He effectively created Hal's goal with his pressure, winning the ball back in the middle of the park. Also played a big part in Pereira's goal by finding Diangana with a pass through the middle. Great work rate and quality on the ball.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 09, 2019, 08:20:22 AM
Never been a fan but I must say he has been great all season but today he was superb. Proper leader now and when he is out it clearly shows how important he is.

This is about where I am with the Livermore issue now. I do not think he is a Premier League player, but who knows, if he carries on as he has this season, where he has been superb in the role he has been asked to fulfil, then he could play a big role for us next season were he to captain us to promotion.

Makes all the difference having a good manager.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on December 09, 2019, 08:29:39 AM
Terrific Yesterday , been on the whole good all season really .
One I probably would have moved on last Summer but Bilic has built round him and we can see the results .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on December 09, 2019, 09:11:52 AM
Outstanding yesterday, probably his best for us. I, like others, have never been a fan but I think the criticism was justified just the same as the praise is now.
He was poor under other managers and at the start of this season under Bilic but has slowly and steadily improved to the point were he is now undroppable and i never thought I would say that.
Looking like a good captain as well, much prefer the calm stoic approach to the feral spitting style of others.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on December 09, 2019, 09:29:32 AM
Been solid all season and miles away from the player we saw in previous seasons. Bilic has got him playing well and it's good to see a captain on the field remaining calm.

Sometimes he gives the ball away (although usually a lot less than Sawyers) and sometimes he over hits a pass but he's not the only one.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on December 09, 2019, 10:47:13 AM
Agree with others he was fantastic yesterday. Would've been a worthy MOTM had Pereira not put in the best individual performance I can remember seeing in an Albion shirt.

It was justifiable the previous criticism but the praise Jake is getting now is equally justified.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on December 09, 2019, 12:54:01 PM
Both fullbacks, Ajayi, Sawyers, Diangana, Phillips and Robson-Kanu all better today. There were 5 first half minutes that summed Jake up. Had a chance to slip GD in and sent him miles wide. Then got ball stuck under his feet in the box, then blasted straight at the keeper unchallenged from 25 yards.


He's poor. I'd go as far as to say we carry him to an extent.

Unreal comment. Has to be made tongue in cheek surely. The guy is playing superbly, consistently.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggie79 on December 09, 2019, 01:40:01 PM
It was a nice touh to put the captains armband on Edwards after his goal. Class
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on December 09, 2019, 02:48:05 PM
Two things were missing from Jake's performance for me yesterday. A goal and a Chris Brunt mask. Other than for those I thought he put in a very decent shift. Well played Jake lad. Try to remember the mask next time out if you can though please, there's a good chap  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on December 09, 2019, 03:13:15 PM
Probably the most improved player under Bilic, nice to see a leader on the pitch, something we have lacked possibly since McInnes but definately since Fletcher.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on December 09, 2019, 03:18:25 PM
Probably the most improved player under Bilic, nice to see a leader on the pitch, something we have lacked possibly since McInnes but definately since Fletcher.

Either him or Kanu most improved. Bartley was great for half a dozen games but reverted to type yesterday, he was poor and somehow managed not to clear for the goal despite getting to the ball first.

Definitely Jake or Hal most improved.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on December 09, 2019, 10:30:38 PM
Just read what the gaffer thinks of Jake. That says it all for me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: section5 on December 10, 2019, 10:26:32 AM
Either him or Kanu most improved. Bartley was great for half a dozen games but reverted to type yesterday, he was poor and somehow managed not to clear for the goal despite getting to the ball first.

Definitely Jake or Hal most improved.

Hardly say he reverted to type.  Anyway back to Jake. Bilic said after the game how important and unnoticed he's been for us this season
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on December 10, 2019, 10:48:01 AM
It was a nice touh to put the captains armband on Edwards after his goal. Class

My own thoughts at the time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on February 09, 2020, 07:41:13 PM
My MOTM thought he was superb today led from the front especially as I thought Sawyers was off it.
Excellent captain in my opinion was straight over to O'Shea after he scored nice touch.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wigmore on February 09, 2020, 08:00:33 PM
I see he was calming things down with the referee (again) after Millwall players committed fouls. :o
NB An observation, not a criticism!
Very composed today - except when he got pinged for 'high kicking'.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 09, 2020, 08:06:42 PM
I see he was calming things down with the referee (again) after Millwall players committed fouls. :o
NB An observation, not a criticism!
Very composed today - except when he got pinged for 'high kicking'.
He wanted to join the "Tiller Girls" as a young lad.
(Showing my age again).  :o
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on February 09, 2020, 08:29:08 PM
Outstanding for the majority of the season. I was never really a fan but this season has converted me. Fantastic leader.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 09, 2020, 08:47:59 PM
Last 2 games have suited Livermore they have been dog fights. Reading game (they will be scrapping for points) will probably be the same. When it comes to us being on front foot trying to break sides down is when Livermore gets found out.

Solid game today
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on February 12, 2020, 10:48:24 PM
Outstanding again tonight.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 12, 2020, 10:51:02 PM
Outstanding again tonight.


Predicted this post at 8pm.


6/10.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on February 12, 2020, 10:53:36 PM

Predicted this post at 8pm.


6/10.

Eh? What do you mean.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 12, 2020, 10:55:23 PM
Eh? What do you mean.


He was 6/10 tonight, which is one of his better performances.


Predicted you would post something along the lines he was much more than this, and you have.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on February 12, 2020, 11:01:56 PM

He was 6/10 tonight, which is one of his better performances.


Predicted you would post something along the lines he was much more than this, and you have.

 :o Oh dear. That’s slightly disconcerting. You must have other things to do than predict what I’m going to post surely. Maybe put the device down and give it a break for a few hours. Have a nap or something.

Predicting something to nobody means nothing.

We won a game by the way - maybe focus on the positivity of a win.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 13, 2020, 06:07:18 AM
Outstanding again tonight.

Yep.   I was a Jacko level critic of his last year, but  in this side he can play to his strengths.  Covers ground, quick and strong in the tackle and drives the team on.   Looks a leader too. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on February 13, 2020, 06:28:46 AM
Does what we've been asking a captain to do for years.
Not the best player on the field but the best leader we have.
Never lets the ref rest
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggies_24 on February 13, 2020, 08:15:55 AM
He’s easily covered the most distance of any player on the pitch the past 2 games, I’ve been critical in the past his footballing skills aren’t the best but you can’t deny the bloke is leader who gives his absolute all every time he steps on the turf.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on February 13, 2020, 09:02:53 AM
He’s easily covered the most distance of any player on the pitch the past 2 games, I’ve been critical in the past his footballing skills aren’t the best but you can’t deny the bloke is leader who gives his absolute all every time he steps on the turf.
Have to disagree with this bit, I think he's a confidence player and has a tendency to go missing and shirk responsibility when things are not going well, as was evident in our poor run.
Seems to have got his mojo back, and found an extra burst of energy, now though and is undroppable at the minute.
7/10 would have been 8 if he hadn't missed that sitter.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: NJS on February 13, 2020, 09:10:12 AM
Is there any neutral person or organisation out there that can give ratings: B'ham Mail or Express and Star?
I would be good if we could get the opinion of one or two managers of other Championship clubs.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: geoff on February 13, 2020, 09:13:15 AM
Jake's playing better now than when he was picked to play for England. Keep it up mukka.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jordie1471 on February 13, 2020, 09:14:32 AM
Another solid performance last night.

Never going to a world beater but despite what Jose Jacko may say, there is no doubt in my mind that he should be ahead of 35 year old Chris Brunt and 38 year old Gareth Barry in our pecking order.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 13, 2020, 09:17:20 AM
Some real great performances this season. Having the equally fit Sawyers next to him instead of the old legs of Brunt or Barry has really helped his game.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 13, 2020, 09:23:30 AM
Is there any neutral person or organisation out there that can give ratings: B'ham Mail or Express and Star?
I would be good if we could get the opinion of one or two managers of other Championship clubs.

Both The Mail and The express & star do player ratings.

these are from the E & S for the millwall game:
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2020/02/10/millwall-0-west-brom-2-player-ratings/

Mails from last night:https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/sport/football/west-brom-player-ratings-reading-17739304
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on February 13, 2020, 09:51:57 AM
Jake's playing better now than when he was picked to play for England. Keep it up mukka.

True. His selection for England was bizarre really and he is playing a lot better now, albeit in the Championship.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 13, 2020, 09:56:29 AM
Outstanding again tonight.
As one of the travelling Baggies last night I have to very much agree with this assessment, loved the way he picked their pockets several times, often approaching them from behind, staying on his feet, and taking the ball away from right under their feet. As Mr Frazzle states an outstanding performance
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 13, 2020, 10:00:08 AM
That's why it's frustrating in the match thread, Livermore barely put a foot wrong, but still copped a lot of flack.  I mean, he should have scored his goal, but he'd just made a great challenge to win the ball, then sprinted 50 yards to catch back up with play.  There were the usual comments about his passing but I don't remember anything particulary glaring, and he produced one absolute wonder of a pass on the volley late on which we should have done better with.  Not a peep from the usual suspects.

I think Livermore and Sawyers make a good team in there.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 13, 2020, 10:14:59 AM
Livermore has been fantastic most of the season. In fact if there  was a player of the season vote so far he would probably get my vote fractionally ahead of Ajayi.

I have never rated Jake and I wouldve sold him last summer if it were left to me but I was wrong he's proved me wrong.

I thought he was man of the match last night, absolutely terrific our new 4-3-3 seems to suit him and us. He covered every inch last night, one minute getting into the box off the ball providing an attacking threat, next minute on the edge of his own box dispossessing a Reading player. Superb performance.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BoingFlyer on February 13, 2020, 11:37:04 AM
That's why it's frustrating in the match thread, Livermore barely put a foot wrong, but still copped a lot of flack.  I mean, he should have scored his goal, but he'd just made a great challenge to win the ball, then sprinted 50 yards to catch back up with play.  There were the usual comments about his passing but I don't remember anything particulary glaring, and he produced one absolute wonder of a pass on the volley late on which we should have done better with.  Not a peep from the usual suspects.

I think Livermore and Sawyers make a good team in there.

It's a few noisy individuals in the matchday thread, no way a majority view.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: miggybaggy on February 13, 2020, 11:55:38 AM
Bomber had him MOM on WM. That'll do for me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 13, 2020, 12:32:55 PM
For this division, he is is fantastic most of the time in doing what he does, and with Sawyers being so different the pairing is great most of the time.  The main issue is when we pour forward, he can't get back quickly and so with Sawyers awol we sometimes get left exposed, but that's the game plan, not his fault.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on February 13, 2020, 12:38:03 PM
It's a few noisy individuals in the matchday thread, no way a majority view.

The in match chat drives me to drink it really does. If we are not 3-0 up after 15 minutes we are dross! Jake did well again last night.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: timdon on February 13, 2020, 01:46:47 PM
:o Oh dear. That’s slightly disconcerting. You must have other things to do than predict what I’m going to post surely. Maybe put the device down and give it a break for a few hours. Have a nap or something.

Predicting something to nobody means nothing.

We won a game by the way - maybe focus on the positivity of a win.
Haha, very good. I wouldn't worry too much about these sorts of comments, which don't carry any weight with most of us. We are top of the league by 6 points and 3 wins on the bounce, yet according to Jacko 5 of our starting 11 are completely rubbish  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on February 13, 2020, 02:11:14 PM
Haha, very good. I wouldn't worry too much about these sorts of comments, which don't carry any weight with most of us. We are top of the league by 6 points and 3 wins on the bounce, yet according to Jacko 5 of our starting 11 are completely rubbish  ;D ;D ;D

Just read the in game comments. Unbelievable comments and there’s barely a positive comment to be seen. Instead of commenting on the shots or good movement or attacking play it’s almost entirely digs at the targeted players constantly for the whole match. Each to their own I guess but I hope they have some happiness in their lives somewhere because it’s certainly not shown on here!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on February 13, 2020, 03:27:18 PM
Any poster suggesting Livermore should be replaced by Brunt or Barry is on a fishing trip. Neither would improve or add anything to the team that isn't already there yet would take away any capability of tackling our opponents, bonkers to even think Barry or Brunt have the energy or legs to play in this fast paced Albion team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on February 13, 2020, 03:30:13 PM
Livermore and Sawyers played really well yesterday. A great team performance, but Krov looked a bit tired understandably.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 13, 2020, 06:30:02 PM
Livermore and Sawyers played really well yesterday. A great team performance, but Krov looked a bit tired understandably.
Player of the season, inspirational captain, even a loud and proud chant for him last night, after he led the charge . 8 out of 10. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on February 13, 2020, 06:43:51 PM
Player of the season, inspirational captain, even a loud and proud chant for him last night, after he led the charge . 8 out of 10.

It's been his best season for us but I wouldn't put him down as player of the year. He is getting around the pitch and pressing much better and looks a lot fitter but is clumsy with the ball at his feet. So he's great at putting out fires but also starts a fair few. Brilliant energy and pressing to close them down yesterday to win it back and then a great lung busting run forwards and then he missed a sitter at the end of it all, that kind of sums him up for me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 13, 2020, 07:31:33 PM
He’s easily covered the most distance of any player on the pitch the past 2 games, I’ve been critical in the past his footballing skills aren’t the best but you can’t deny the bloke is leader who gives his absolute all every time he steps on the turf.
Sawyers will have covered more ground
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 14, 2020, 12:42:19 AM
Sawyers will have covered more ground

Only if he played for Leeds  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on February 14, 2020, 04:09:08 PM
Someone on Facebook suggested another England call up for Jake. Is it April 1st already?  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on February 14, 2020, 04:43:12 PM
Someone on Facebook suggested another England call up for Jake. Is it April 1st already?  :D

Definitely someone has got a bit too excited. He is never and has never been England class.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 14, 2020, 08:22:59 PM

He was 6/10 tonight, which is one of his better performances.


Predicted you would post something along the lines he was much more than this, and you have.

Right, apologies for the delay in dealing with this due to internet issues but the petty childish digs are getting boring and are not wanted on this forum, this applies to everyone not just you but does include yourself Jacko and the rest can take note, if you want to bicker like playground kids then I suggest Facebook maybe the direction to head to as if it carries on on this forum then the people guilty will be banned, no more warning pms, just a ban, so last chance for all involved to grow up or clear off.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 14, 2020, 09:31:04 PM
Right, apologies for the delay in dealing with this due to internet issues but the petty childish digs are getting boring and are not wanted on this forum, this applies to everyone not just you but does include yourself Jacko and the rest can take note, if you want to bicker like playground kids then I suggest Facebook maybe the direction to head to as if it carries on on this forum then the people guilty will be banned, no more warning pms, just a ban, so last chance for all involved to grow up or clear off.


Honestly have no idea what this is about? Frazzle said he was great I said he was okay? There is far worse on here every day and absolutely no need to single people out. Plenty of name calling on the Bilić thread for example if that helps?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 14, 2020, 09:39:18 PM

Honestly have no idea what this is about? Frazzle said he was great I said he was okay? There is far worse on here every day and absolutely no need to single people out. Plenty of name calling on the Bilić thread for example if that helps?

I couldn't care less anymore to be honest, sick of bickering like playground so its there for all, cut it or clear off.

You started that one so as it was you're post then you got mentioned, the opposite happened a couple of weeks ago where others started making digs to you, at the time I posted and said cut it out so now everyone has been told, end of.

Any more replies will be removed, simple.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 14, 2020, 09:41:23 PM
I couldn't care less anymore to be honest, sick of bickering like playground so its there for all, cut it or clear off.

You started that one so as it was you're post then you got mentioned, the opposite happened a couple of weeks ago where others started making digs to you, at the time I posted and said cut it out so now everyone has been told, end of.

Any more replies will be removed, simple.


Okay mate, thanks for the reply.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Webby on February 14, 2020, 10:58:00 PM
Think (well it appears) the lads like him and I do enjoy when he closes down the ball quickly when we lose it. Seems to be a good captain at the moment for our squad?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 14, 2020, 11:18:25 PM
I think he's having a cracking season personally. Does the dirty work well, the leg work of two and rallies those around him. The often unseen but essential cog which keeps the wheels around him turning.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Nocky on February 15, 2020, 06:09:18 PM
Very good again today. Covering every blade of grass and keeping the ball effectively. He's carrying Sawyers at the moment.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 15, 2020, 06:12:45 PM
Very good again today. Covering every blade of grass and keeping the ball effectively. He's carrying Sawyers at the moment.


Agreed. More in-form of the 2 at the moment.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on February 15, 2020, 06:18:22 PM
While this is probably his best season for us, I still make a defensive midfielder one of our main targets if we get promotion (along with striker and goalkeeper). He does well when play is congested and he makes good tackles, plus is a hard enough worker, but too often sides run through our weak middle. I suppose it doesn't help that his partner is Romaine Sawyers who is possibly the worse tackler at the club, but Livermore must also be part of that conversation.

I'd argue it might be down to his lack of real pace as he can't quite cover the defence in the way I want him to. Maybe it's nostalgia but I felt Yacob and Mulumbu both were more involved in games than Livermore is.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on February 15, 2020, 07:37:19 PM
Never been a massive fan but apart from one poor tackle Today he's been outstanding since Luton , looks fitter this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on February 15, 2020, 08:36:39 PM
Never been a massive fan but apart from one poor tackle Today he's been outstanding since Luton , looks fitter this season.

One of his best games for us today, he really stepped it up second half. What I couldn't understand is after that shocking challenge first half which he could easily have been sent off for he was giving the Forest player he'd smashed dogs abuse!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on February 15, 2020, 08:40:33 PM
While this is probably his best season for us, I still make a defensive midfielder one of our main targets if we get promotion (along with striker and goalkeeper).

You could easily make the argument that of our current team, none of the back four and GK are prem standard, HRK clearly isn't either, so that leaves a handful of attacking midfielders. Just goes to show what an outstanding job Bilic has done so far. I think we have a lot of players who are strong at this level but would struggle in the Prem, Livermore being one of them. But as long as we get up we can at least consolidate with the TV revenue and guaranteed parachute payments if we end up yo-yoing. Our style and squad is similar to Norwich.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Wigmore on February 15, 2020, 09:57:51 PM
You could easily make the argument that of our current team, none of the back four and GK are prem standard,
You may choose to be that negative. I would choose to wait and see, if we make it to the EPL, whether Bilic thinks wholesale replacement is necessary.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on February 15, 2020, 10:16:54 PM
You may choose to be that negative. I would choose to wait and see, if we make it to the EPL, whether Bilic thinks wholesale replacement is necessary.
its premature but this will lead us into a discussion about which model to follow, I think the current squad is a Norwich look a like and we know where that will end up ..... 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on February 16, 2020, 09:28:37 PM
Livermore is the touchstone for a lot of issues around this squad. His progress mirrors that of the club. A Pulis era signing who was bought into a very different set up to the one he is in today.

Livermore was always an 8 (Box to Box Midfielder) but started the transition to  the 6 (DM) role too early in his career and when arrived here he was playing in a Double 6 pivot with either Fletcher or Yacob. His passing stats dropped by 5 percentage points on arrival which was indicative of Pulis' style of play rather than any real drop off in form.

His role in taxigate did not endear him to fans and he bulked up to have the necessary physical presence to be a 6. That was hugely detrimental to his career here and was one of the reasons why we were so dysfunctional as a unit when Moore tried to transition the squad to a more expansive style of play. Shan reverted to a more functional style of play and Livermore was more comfortable in it.

All of this makes this season's transformation more impressive. He has by his own omission shed some of his bulk this has made him more mobile and he has reverted back to being a proper 8. Now he can deployed either in a double pivot or further forward alongside another 8. This has been hugely beneficial to the side and given options to Bilic that simply weren't available to some of his predecessors.

Going forward regardless of which division we find ourselves in (I hate a lot of these pre-emptive posts which talk about next season in the Premier League)   Livermore is contracted until 2022 and he is going to be central to Bilic's thinking.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KingKoren on February 16, 2020, 10:12:15 PM
I agree with a lot of that analysis Standaman however despite everything you say I'm still not completely sold on Livermore. His passing isn't great for someone playing in his position and I don't feel he recovers possession enough for a defensive midfielder, if we're saying he's an 8 then technically or physically he isn't good enough for that either. He maybe having his best season and his experience and leadership qualities undoubtedly will prove useful at times, however he just seems an average footballer to me and at his age he should be at the peak of his powers,  he's not going to get any better. Don't get me wrong he isn't bad at much but he doesn't excel at much either. Contrast him to Sawyers; we all know what he brings to this team and we all know what his shortcomings are so we need someone to compliment his style of play; Jake is trying his best but I think he falls short of what we need. The fact he is captain and contracted until 2022 like you mentioned means it will be difficult to dislodge him, but I feel we will need an upgrade in that department or we'll suffer long term.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 16, 2020, 10:45:28 PM
I agree with a lot of that analysis Standaman however despite everything you say I'm still not completely sold on Livermore. His passing isn't great for someone playing in his position and I don't feel he recovers possession enough for a defensive midfielder, if we're saying he's an 8 then technically or physically he isn't good enough for that either. He maybe having his best season and his experience and leadership qualities undoubtedly will prove useful at times, however he just seems an average footballer to me and at his age he should be at the peak of his powers,  he's not going to get any better. Don't get me wrong he isn't bad at much but he doesn't excel at much either. Contrast him to Sawyers; we all know what he brings to this team and we all know what his shortcomings are so we need someone to compliment his style of play; Jake is trying his best but I think he falls short of what we need. The fact he is captain and contracted until 2022 like you mentioned means it will be difficult to dislodge him, but I feel we will need an upgrade in that department or we'll suffer long term.
He won’t be the only one that the club will consider upgrading, the problem is there can be many down sides to too many changes too soon
Would suggest keeper, LB position, at least one CB (Nzonzi type) and a real number 9
That’s at least 4 new ins before we even look at upgrading Bartley,Phillips,Sawyers who have all been the subject of consideration at some point this season.
Then there is Barry, brunt etc
Maybe promotion brings a lot of headaches
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on February 17, 2020, 01:10:44 AM
We have 13 games left and a lot can happen which might shape my view of a player. If those 13 games end in promotion there is a fairly significant discussion to be had about the squad going forward but one which I think is premature at the moment. 

Livermore suffers from being a generalist a jack of all trades and a master of none. Both Sawyers and Krovinovic have pretty obvious limitations as footballers but they benefit from being very good at a least one part of the game. I would happily concede that Livermore could improve across the board but if you are looking for a player who is a significant upgrade in all aspects then you are looking at peak age Yaya Toure and well good luck with finding that in the Championship.

My concern for the immediate future regardless of the division we find ourselves is he is getting to the stage of career where he will naturally want to start to drop from the 8 role towards a 6. This really won't work in Bilic's current set up as the deep sitting role is filled by a playmaker. It is really difficult to accomodate Livermore in a deep sitting role which would be largely defensive.

This season might turn out to be a bit of a swan song but plainly Bilic rates him and right now he is key member of the team.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 17, 2020, 01:34:47 AM
Yaya Toure? Extreme examples like this are hugely unhelpful. Phillips at Leeds would be a massive upgrade on Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on February 17, 2020, 06:44:04 AM
Yaya Toure? Extreme examples like this are hugely unhelpful. Phillips at Leeds would be a massive upgrade on Livermore.

Phillips is the best 6 in the division by a country mile but he is not playing the 8 role so the comparison does not entirely work.  However I wouldn't argue that his defensive contribution would better than Livermore's passing is probably comparable offensive contribution which is the one area I would say is lacking in Livermore's game  I'm not sure Phillips would be a massive uplift.

The point I was making with the Toure comparison was the Central Midfielder that do everything to a really high standard are fairly rare and anyone we are likely to hire is probably flawed in some aspects of their game. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on February 17, 2020, 09:52:02 AM
Livermore, ain't Makele or Essien (sadly), but at our current level he is ok, the issue will come when our opposition is a class above that which we face now.

I doubt we will find a UK based upgrade who is affordable, so we have to look abroad and I think we will struggle even with this, JL might be hereabouts for a while yet.

Then again Sam Field will hopefully be fit soon, I still think that lad has a big future (injuries not withstanding)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 17, 2020, 10:02:31 AM
I agree with a lot of that analysis Standaman however despite everything you say I'm still not completely sold on Livermore. His passing isn't great for someone playing in his position and I don't feel he recovers possession enough for a defensive midfielder, if we're saying he's an 8 then technically or physically he isn't good enough for that either. He maybe having his best season and his experience and leadership qualities undoubtedly will prove useful at times, however he just seems an average footballer to me and at his age he should be at the peak of his powers,  he's not going to get any better. Don't get me wrong he isn't bad at much but he doesn't excel at much either. Contrast him to Sawyers; we all know what he brings to this team and we all know what his shortcomings are so we need someone to compliment his style of play; Jake is trying his best but I think he falls short of what we need. The fact he is captain and contracted until 2022 like you mentioned means it will be difficult to dislodge him, but I feel we will need an upgrade in that department or we'll suffer long term.

Isn't it a bit unfair to compare him to Sawyers though?  I mean, Sawyers IS playing the DM roll rarely actually wins the ball back.  Livermore does a lot of the heavy lifting in CM, wins the ball back more than Sawyers and gets forward more.  I think Livermore and Sawyer's games do compliment each other.  Livermore wins the ball back, gives it to Sawyers and then gets forward.  We have someone cleaning up and calming the game down as well as someone who will put a foot in and do his best getting forward.

Sure there's better players at getting a foot in than Livermore, AND players who are better at getting forward.  There's not a HUGE amount of players, who we could sign, who are better at both.  And if we get someone who is better at the DM side, then we lose out on the attacking side of the game.   Likewise, if we get someone in who is better at going forward, we lose out on the DM side and there's no way Sawyers is up to playing as a proper DM.

If anything, if we feel that we *must* improve on those two players, it would make more sense to improve on Sawyers and get a DM who will win the ball back and not leave it all to Livermore. 

Personally, I think there's nothing much wrong in the CM department.   This is the first season they've played together and we are top of the league going into the final run in.   Our biggest problem there is lack of depth.

albionic posted as I was typing mine out with a similar view.   :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBAinDEVON on February 17, 2020, 10:14:11 AM
how he got england caps under southgate is beyond me
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on June 26, 2020, 11:18:35 PM
Really poor game today....barely had a sniff of the ball and looked laboured waddling about the pitch trying to catch the shadows of Brentford midfielders and looked spent after about 30 mins.

The problem is there's not really much you can replace him with right now... Harper looked terrible when he came on, Barry and Brunt are not the answer either and the fact of the matter is, Livermore is the skipper so is first name on the sheet in most instances.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on June 26, 2020, 11:20:46 PM
Really poor game today....barely had a sniff of the ball and looked laboured waddling about the pitch trying to catch the shadows of Brentford midfielders and looked spent after about 30 mins.

The problem is there's not really much you can replace him with right now... Harper looked terrible when he came on, Barry and Brunt are not the answer either and the fact of the matter is, Livermore is the skipper so is first name on the sheet in most instances.
The answer was under our noses
Tosin is playing in midfield for Blackburn and running games
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on June 26, 2020, 11:22:24 PM
He looks unfit and his only attributes are his fitness,
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on June 26, 2020, 11:23:44 PM
A terrible footballer, was at Spurs, was at Hull, has been for us.

Arguably the worst player to ever wear an England shirt.

Got done for class A drugs and one of the Cab 4.

Nauseating seeing this captain fantastico ********.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on June 26, 2020, 11:26:07 PM
A truly woeful footballer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on June 26, 2020, 11:26:38 PM
Really poor game today....barely had a sniff of the ball and looked laboured waddling about the pitch trying to catch the shadows of Brentford midfielders and looked spent after about 30 mins.

The problem is there's not really much you can replace him with right now... Harper looked terrible when he came on, Barry and Brunt are not the answer either and the fact of the matter is, Livermore is the skipper so is first name on the sheet in most instances.
He has an awkward first touch and alot of his passes are overhit instead of being weighted like Pereira's or Krovinovic's. Thereofre he is pretty useless at setting up decent goalscoring openings or chances for others.
Defensively he's powerful and gets tackles in, but he needs to lose some weight to keep up with the more athletic and quicker opponents (such as Brentford have got).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on July 08, 2020, 09:28:37 PM
Thought Jake had a good game tonight ran his heart out and covered a lot of ground good captains performance one woeful strike at goal though from a good situation.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 08, 2020, 09:31:03 PM
Thought Jake had a good game tonight ran his heart out and covered a lot of ground good captains performance one woeful strike at goal though from a good situation.

Thought the game passed him by aside from a good 10 minute spell after the 2nd substitution (Kanu for Austin). His presence meant we lost something on the ball and that 'effort' sums the lad up as a technician.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on July 08, 2020, 09:37:26 PM
Thought the game passed him by aside from a good 10 minute spell after the 2nd substitution (Kanu for Austin). His presence meant we lost something on the ball and that 'effort' sums the lad up as a technician.
Who do you think was doing most of the pressing all game. And this comes from someone who said only 4 hours ago that Bilic had bottled team selection you definitely have an agenda when it comes to certain players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie38 on July 08, 2020, 09:40:00 PM
Thought the game passed him by aside from a good 10 minute spell after the 2nd substitution (Kanu for Austin). His presence meant we lost something on the ball and that 'effort' sums the lad up as a technician.

We were clearly watching a very different game. Livermore top draw from start to finish. Who was doing most of the pressing? He gave us our crunch in midfield today and the rest has clearly done him good.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 08, 2020, 09:41:47 PM
Who do you think was doing most of the pressing all game. And this comes from someone who said only 4 hours ago that Bilic had bottled team selection you definitely have an agenda when it comes to certain players.

The pressing in our team (for the most part) is done by Austin Pereira, Grosicki and Diangana. Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on July 08, 2020, 10:15:08 PM
Yep, Livermore (who I have heavily criticised at times) was great this evening. Superb energy to press them and to lead the team up the pitch. His passing and movement was also better. Massive upgrade on Harper and he is a shoe-in to start alongside Sawyers at Blackburn. Predictably Jacko is criticising him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on July 08, 2020, 10:20:02 PM
Captain Magnifico is back.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 08, 2020, 10:31:27 PM
Yep, Livermore (who I have heavily criticised at times) was great this evening. Superb energy to press them and to lead the team up the pitch. His passing and movement was also better. Massive upgrade on Harper and he is a shoe-in to start alongside Sawyers at Blackburn. Predictably Jacko is criticising him.

You've mentioned Hegazi who wasn't even playing, more than anyone who was playing since full time... I've not even criticised him, I'm just not waxing lyrical because he barely contributed.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on July 08, 2020, 10:39:57 PM
He played well today. Some will never admit it, that we know.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Webby on July 09, 2020, 01:29:58 AM
Played well against Derby.  He presses high like Slav wants us too and won that ball high up the pitch which set Pereira up in the box, for which he should have done better and made it 2-0 much earlier.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on July 09, 2020, 02:52:02 AM
Livermore did alright he presses and harries that's what he brings to the party.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on July 09, 2020, 06:40:10 AM
He’s been poor since lockdown but much better last night and arguably his best performance in a 4231.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 09, 2020, 09:02:58 AM
Better yesterday than he has been for a number of weeks but, make no mistake, if we do get promoted, he cannot be a starting player next season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DaveWBA on July 09, 2020, 09:07:08 AM
The pressing in our team (for the most part) is done by Austin Pereira, Grosicki and Diangana. Hope this helps.

I reckon if you could dig the stats up Livermore would be up there for ball recoveries or whatever they're calling them now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on July 09, 2020, 09:09:15 AM
I reckon if you could dig the stats up Livermore would be up there for ball recoveries or whatever they're calling them now.

He's ok at what he does, he just looks so cumbersome around the pitch.
Need a more mobile version of him
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DaveWBA on July 09, 2020, 09:23:27 AM
He's ok at what he does, he just looks so cumbersome around the pitch.
Need a more mobile version of him

Agreed.

Jacko is right that he's not the most technically gifted footballer. But he's not been able to admit that he's done a good job for us at times this season, last night being one of those occasions. The chances of being a Championship team with a more mobile and technically better version of Livermore are tiny. It's definitely an area to improve should we be promoted.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: adamw1109 on July 09, 2020, 10:28:02 AM
I reckon if you could dig the stats up Livermore would be up there for ball recoveries or whatever they're calling them now.

The role Livermore plays, he plays well. No point debating with him he knows everything.

Key passes
1.   Pereira – 4
2.   Livermore – 3
Pass Accuracy
1.   1 Bartley – 96.3%
2.   Sawyers – 89.7%
3.   Pereira – 86.7%
4.   Diangana – 85%
5.   Livermore – 84.4%
Total tackles
1.   Livermore – 4


That's some of his stats from yesterday (not including the subs that came on), stats don't lie. He's not a fancy flair player... but he does the job that's needed of him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie38 on July 18, 2020, 04:14:21 AM
It is worth noting that since this waste of space signed we went backwards as a club. Now I'm not saying Jake is the only reason we have gone downhill but he has certainly contributed. I don't buy into this captain fantastico nonsense . I'm sick of seeing things such as "We know what we need to do" "we are in this together" all the typical generic rubbish coming out of his mouth only for him then to put in such poor performances. I hear he is supposed to be a wonderful person but I couldn't care less I'd much rather have a captain who is a bit of a nasty bugger who will take us forward as opposed to this fraud.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sandbachbaggie on July 22, 2020, 09:47:07 PM
Just watched his interview. Class act. Means so much to him. Saying they all knew jobs were at risk if they didnt do it etc...and they may be guilty of caring too much and letting emotions take over hence the poor performances.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 22, 2020, 09:48:26 PM
Just watched his interview. Class act. Means so much to him. Saying they all knew jobs were at risk if they didnt do it etc...and they may be guilty of caring too much and letting emotions take over hence the poor performances.

What was his excuse before Covid-19?  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Black Pearl on July 22, 2020, 09:48:53 PM
Just watched his interview. Class act. Means so much to him. Saying they all knew jobs were at risk if they didnt do it etc...and they may be guilty of caring too much and letting emotions take over hence the poor performances.

Absolute class interview.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on July 22, 2020, 09:49:48 PM
It is worth noting that since this waste of space signed we went backwards as a club. Now I'm not saying Jake is the only reason we have gone downhill but he has certainly contributed. I don't buy into this captain fantastico nonsense . I'm sick of seeing things such as "We know what we need to do" "we are in this together" all the typical generic rubbish coming out of his mouth only for him then to put in such poor performances. I hear he is supposed to be a wonderful person but I couldn't care less I'd much rather have a captain who is a bit of a nasty bugger who will take us forward as opposed to this fraud.
I disagree, he's a decent player, knows the ropes, and we will need his experience next year, even if he doesn't start every game.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on July 22, 2020, 09:50:57 PM
I disagree, he's a decent player, knows the ropes, and we will need his experience next year, even if he doesn't start every game.

You tease.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on July 22, 2020, 09:51:27 PM
MOTM tonight.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hunsletbaggie on July 22, 2020, 09:54:12 PM
Brilliant tonight skipper's performance
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on July 22, 2020, 09:54:58 PM
The man has class despite some limitations as a player. He was however superb tonight. Well done Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 22, 2020, 09:56:03 PM
Superb tonight. Well done JL. Interview shows how much it meant to him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Evo_Baggies on July 22, 2020, 09:59:24 PM
Classy interview. You could see what it meant to him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Pelada on July 22, 2020, 10:00:17 PM
We can talk about Jakes technical abilities until the cows come home but that can wait.

Tonight it was clear to me that Jake actually gives a toss and clearly meant a lot to him personally tonight. I don’t know the ins and outs but it sounded like he went through some dark days at Hull and here he is coming through the other side.

I’ve always been amazed that he and Kieran Gibbs- Tottenham and Arsenal boys from youth, have kept their heads down after relegation and really acquitted themselves well in an unforgiving Championship division for two years.

Congratulations to Jake tonight - a fantastic thing to add to his career story.

Lovely stuff.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on July 22, 2020, 10:02:47 PM
Class.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: fatboy_coach on July 22, 2020, 10:05:23 PM
Captains performance tonight, some lovely touches around the box as well as the pressing. A very honest and emotional interview shows how much he cares, top man
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on July 22, 2020, 10:23:32 PM
I know it's the same for all clubs, but I don't think they've been home to see their families since the re-start in June, perhaps that's why Jake was so emotional.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: koren on July 22, 2020, 10:26:27 PM
He improved a lot this season.
Close down quickly and go forward all the time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on July 22, 2020, 10:27:30 PM
He was absolutely immense tonight.  Lead the line, closed down, defended brilliantly. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on July 22, 2020, 11:19:33 PM
Showed up tonight with a performance more akin to the way he started the season. We desperately need to replace him if we have any hopes of staying up next season, but he has finally looked like a decent player this year. There will be a place in the wider squad for him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on July 22, 2020, 11:25:30 PM
I've been critical at times but superb energy and leadership this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 22, 2020, 11:30:42 PM
We can talk about Jakes technical abilities until the cows come home but that can wait.

Tonight it was clear to me that Jake actually gives a toss and clearly meant a lot to him personally tonight. I don’t know the ins and outs but it sounded like he went through some dark days at Hull and here he is coming through the other side.

I’ve always been amazed that he and Kieran Gibbs- Tottenham and Arsenal boys from youth, have kept their heads down after relegation and really acquitted themselves well in an unforgiving Championship division for two years.

Congratulations to Jake tonight - a fantastic thing to add to his career story.

Lovely stuff.
I give a toss.....I’m also faster ....but you wouldn’t .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Manc Baggie on July 22, 2020, 11:31:57 PM
His post match interview gave an insight into the pressure that he and the other players and management have been playing under.
Under the circumstances, I think getting over the line is even more fantastic.
Lets enjoy it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on July 22, 2020, 11:40:27 PM
Always been critical of him. He was fantastic tonight, his interview shown passion and a commitment to the club. For that i appreciate his contribution tonight.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: CL3MO on July 23, 2020, 11:15:17 AM
Fantastic last night I thought. Hustled, pressed, won tackles.

That interview though, it looked as if he was mentally exhausted with the pressure as he repeated 'relief' over and over again.

To be honest though, relief was my overriding emotion at the final whistle.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sie_davo on July 23, 2020, 11:30:13 AM
Man of the match for me last night.

Does anyone know who he was hugging for so long after the game? It was an oldish fella with long white hair I think - seemed to go on for ever.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on July 23, 2020, 11:33:34 AM
A Captains performance from Jake, he lead the team superbly by example and was, undoubtedly, Man of the Match
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on July 23, 2020, 11:44:51 AM
Man of the match for me last night.

Does anyone know who he was hugging for so long after the game? It was an oldish fella with long white hair I think - seemed to go on for ever.

Yeah, I wondered that too - Jake seemed pretty emotional.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on July 23, 2020, 11:52:23 AM
From Where Jake was Mentally to now he has been a good player. I guess he has struggled mentally not seeing his family whilst trying to give his all for us on the pitch. At the End of the day we are up he has stuck with us all this time and for that I applaud him and he should be useful for us in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on July 23, 2020, 11:54:36 AM
Hw looked completely spent.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ex coseley kid on July 23, 2020, 12:18:10 PM
Man of the match for me last night.

Does anyone know who he was hugging for so long after the game? It was an oldish fella with long white hair I think - seemed to go on for ever.

I think he was man of the match too.

Seems also everyone is wondering about the white haired fella. I'm going for the first Dr. Who.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on July 23, 2020, 12:22:28 PM
I think he was man of the match too.

Seems also everyone is wondering about the white haired fella. I'm going for the first Dr. Who.

It's the plagiarist Martin Swain. He stole and then put an abridged version of a Albion themed version of sinatra song my way based for tony Mowbray, as he was his favourite singer.

I put it on the 606 forum, when it existed, and he stole extracts of it and put it in the express and dingle.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BigFrank20 on July 23, 2020, 12:45:37 PM
I thought he metaphorically lead from the front last night
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Critical Baggie on July 23, 2020, 05:29:12 PM
Just saw the interview with Jake. Man the pressure release was intense from the way he was making it out.

I think sometimes we easily forget how good we were playing first half of the season.

I’m sure they’ll all grow having been through this experience and can play without a lot of the expectation this second half of the season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on July 23, 2020, 08:23:25 PM
Remember how tense watching that game was? Now imagine playing in it!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: glosterbaggie on July 23, 2020, 08:29:39 PM
I did not know where Jake was playing....CF CB or Mid he was everywhere! Great hard working performance.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 26, 2020, 07:56:45 PM
Don't play this guy again - just not good enough.  He is playing in a critical position in centre midfield.  So far off the pace it's ridiculous.

Nice guy and puts in 100% yes but we need to be ruthless.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 26, 2020, 07:58:14 PM
rubbish tonight. Still missing one CM.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: cheesyknackers on October 26, 2020, 07:58:49 PM
Don't play this guy again - just not good enough.  He is playing in a critical position in centre midfield.  So far off the pace it's ridiculous.

Nice guy and puts in 100% yes but we need to be ruthless.


This .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on October 26, 2020, 08:13:32 PM
I'm absolutely delighted by how good Krov, Gallagher and Pereira were last 30 minutes.

Surely that's the Eureka moment for Slaven regards Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on October 26, 2020, 08:15:20 PM
Livermore's best position is right of a three when he initiates the press and we're not playing that way right now.

He's never been great as a holding midfielder.

I agree he should be on the bench at Premier League level.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 26, 2020, 08:17:40 PM
The bottom line is we played 4-5-1 first half and got rinsed.  That's 3 central players in there.  Livermore was just chasing shadows.  Those people saying Ajayi shouldn't there, well all I say is no one could be worse than Livermore was tonight.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Gilsey 56 on October 26, 2020, 08:49:53 PM
I'm absolutely delighted by how good Krov, Gallagher and Pereira were last 30 minutes.

Surely that's the Eureka moment for Slaven regards Livermore.

yes I agree, we looked like we did at our best last year with those three in the middle.
Robinson was good as well, Pereira has to be our N0.10 surely.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 26, 2020, 09:29:29 PM
Livermore’s best position is in the stands.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sconesy on October 26, 2020, 09:32:20 PM
Agree entirely with all of the previous 2/3 posts. I have huge respect for Jake, but without him we seem to me more dynamic, have far better tempo/energy and most importantly seem to create so much more in the attacking third. What he does is invaluable on occasions but after seeing that tonight (and been clear in a few previous games) it’s clear (in my opinion) that we can play a far more probing and creative style than we have given ourselves credit for; and ultimately be more prosperous.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on October 26, 2020, 10:07:51 PM
Livermore’s best position is in the stands.
Not sure....he used to play a bit at CB ....maybe we should consider as part of a 3?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on October 26, 2020, 10:08:50 PM
There will be games we need Livermore but against the poorer sides in the league when we can actually football sides off the park that's what we should do.

Livermore worth a spot on bench to sure games up or add steal etc. Krov and Gallagher as the 2 allowing periera to go through middle worked in our best spell last year and it worked tonight
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on October 27, 2020, 04:14:59 AM
I remember when he signed it was reported he'd played at ch for Hull, so he may be an option there.

But, I want him out of the MF as I have basically had enough of his terrible passing. I cut him a lot of slack as I still put a lot of significance on playing for England despite David Nugent getting a cap, but he has difficulty making a simple pass.

I don't blame him for the OG but his bad passes giveaway possession too easily.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 27, 2020, 11:20:36 AM
There will be games we need Livermore but against the poorer sides in the league when we can actually football sides off the park that's what we should do.

Livermore worth a spot on bench to sure games up or add steal etc. Krov and Gallagher as the 2 allowing periera to go through middle worked in our best spell last year and it worked tonight

we didn't have Gallagher last year. You are right though that it worked last night.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on October 27, 2020, 12:21:02 PM
Hope this is Bilic's epiphany regarding Livermore and he is out for the foreseeable. We just look so much better without him. Apart from him not being particularly good at passing, tackling or running, he just slows everyone down. When he's not passing backwards, he's telling everyone else to pass backwards. Numerous times last night Krov or Gallacher picked up the ball and, instinctively, looked to rive forward and Livermore would be either pointing to a CH or fullback to initiate a backwards pass or, putting his hand up to receive the ball and passing it backwards himself.
This bloke is our captain so holds a lot of sway with the other lads on the pitch, especially the younger ones, therefore, he has a real impact on the tempo of the game. No coincidence that, when he went off, we played on the front foot and the midfield looked like the shackles had been removed.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 27, 2020, 05:22:18 PM
Hope this is Bilic's epiphany regarding Livermore and he is out for the foreseeable. We just look so much better without him. Apart from him not being particularly good at passing, tackling or running, he just slows everyone down. When he's not passing backwards, he's telling everyone else to pass backwards. Numerous times last night Krov or Gallacher picked up the ball and, instinctively, looked to rive forward and Livermore would be either pointing to a CH or fullback to initiate a backwards pass or, putting his hand up to receive the ball and passing it backwards himself.
This bloke is our captain so holds a lot of sway with the other lads on the pitch, especially the younger ones, therefore, he has a real impact on the tempo of the game. No coincidence that, when he went off, we played on the front foot and the midfield looked like the shackles had been removed.

This sums up perfectly why 1) he doesn't offer anything and 2) he's a hindrance not an asset. In the championship he could throw his muscle around to deter the opposition. That doesn't work in the premiership so he's redundant. Another player signed by TP that a) isn't good enough, b) ageing with very limited resale value & c) earning more on his contract with us than he could expect elsewhere.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on December 21, 2020, 12:47:51 PM
There goes the captaincy then...

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/uk-sports/2020/12/20/sam-allardyce-considers-captaincy-change-after-jake-livermore-red-card/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/uk-sports/2020/12/20/sam-allardyce-considers-captaincy-change-after-jake-livermore-red-card/)

Some don't want to hear it but Allardyce is right, the red being harsh or not the "Livermore Lunge" has been a thing for a while now and we just can't afford it.

Only potential downside is that it could end up with the equally atrocious Ivanovic due to his past experience.

Wouldn't mind giving it O'Shea or Ajayi or something and see how they get on.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on December 21, 2020, 12:50:10 PM
There goes the captaincy then...

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/uk-sports/2020/12/20/sam-allardyce-considers-captaincy-change-after-jake-livermore-red-card/ (https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/uk-sports/2020/12/20/sam-allardyce-considers-captaincy-change-after-jake-livermore-red-card/)

Some don't want to hear it but Allardyce is right, the red being harsh or not the "Livermore Lunge" has been a thing for a while now and we just can't afford it.

Only potential downside is that it could end up with the equally atrocious Ivanovic due to his past experience.

Wouldn't mind giving it O'Shea or Ajayi or something and see how they get on.

I think Ajayi, Furlong, Johnstone and Gallagher will be the only ones left in this side ona  regular basis in a few weeks so unless we see a Darren Fletcher type signing to take it on straight away then it could be Ajayi out of those 4
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on December 21, 2020, 12:53:05 PM
I think Ajayi, Furlong, Johnstone and Gallagher will be the only ones left in this side ona  regular basis in a few weeks so unless we see a Darren Fletcher type signing to take it on straight away then it could be Ajayi out of those 4

Ajayi seems very quiet to me. Both on the pitch and off it, he seems to keep himself to himself. It was noticeable that O'Shea was leading the line Vs Man City, for example. Some captain's do very well despite being quiet, but I'm not sure it's what a lot of fans would want to see. We've always had a fanbase that preferred a Derek McInnes type captain.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on December 21, 2020, 12:56:17 PM
I think Ajayi, Furlong, Johnstone and Gallagher will be the only ones left in this side ona  regular basis in a few weeks so unless we see a Darren Fletcher type signing to take it on straight away then it could be Ajayi out of those 4

I don't see any future for Furlong in a back 4. The lad can't defend. Regards Livermore everyone knows my feelings on the player AND the man, but this has been a long time coming.

Might get a surprise skipper. Pereira perhaps. Like you say though, whichever midfield enforcer he brings in will probably get it long term.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on December 21, 2020, 01:05:10 PM
I think Ajayi, Furlong, Johnstone and Gallagher will be the only ones left in this side ona  regular basis in a few weeks so unless we see a Darren Fletcher type signing to take it on straight away then it could be Ajayi out of those 4

O'Shea (Young and our best player last two games playing in a two at centre back), Ajayi and Gallagher.

Of the outfield players that started last night they are the only three I would bother with given the choice.

The rest ain't genuine Premier League quality and will not be in the future.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Oldbury24 on December 21, 2020, 01:46:03 PM
O'Shea (Young and our best player last two games playing in a two at centre back), Ajayi and Gallagher.

Of the outfield players that started last night they are the only three I would bother with given the choice.

The rest ain't genuine Premier League quality and will not be in the future.

Most of my favorite Albion sides haven't necessarily been the ones who play the best football, they have been the ones who could mix it and had leaders all over the pitch.   At one point it seemed to be a key criteria for Albion signings that they had to be, or have been, somebody else's club captain.  I've never been convinced with Jake as captain (or as a top level footballer if i'm honest), he seems to be from the "lead by example" school but i like to see a more vocal natural leader in the position.

It tells you everything about this group of players, that i do have affection for after last year, that the most natural leader we have is a 21 year old who has only played a handful of games in his natural position.     We all thought Ivanovic would come in and play the captains role, but that's difficult when you are struggling with your own game. 

If BS see's enough in Dara to keep him in the team then he could do worse than just throw him the armband. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 21, 2020, 02:01:22 PM
No issue with what Sam Allardyce has said about Livermore.

It was far more politer than what I would have said.

Brain dead football from an experienced professional.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on December 21, 2020, 02:03:42 PM
Livermore still got 18 months left sadly or I'd hope to see him moved on in Jan.

Could do with him off the books.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OhBilics on December 21, 2020, 02:09:13 PM
There goes the captaincy then...
Yeah, when I read that article I thought, "But who are you going to give it to?"

I just can't think of anyone in the team that seems like a leader, which is part of our problem, I reckon.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on December 21, 2020, 02:13:27 PM
Troy Deeney. A ready made target man and captain rolled into one. People may not like it but these are the kind of players we will need to give us a chance.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: chonobaggie on December 21, 2020, 02:16:23 PM
Troy Deeney. A ready made target man and captain rolled into one. People may not like it but these are the kind of players we will need to give us a chance.

Troy is a player I wished we had got in the summer. So he should be someone we could look at. A natural leader. If he can stay fit.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on January 26, 2021, 09:52:28 PM
First touch is pooh, can’t pass to someone 5 yards away, positional sense is almost as bad as Sawyers’ but it’s all good because he “plays with a bit of passion”.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Aztech on January 26, 2021, 09:54:32 PM
First touch is *****, can’t pass to someone 5 yards away, positional sense is almost as bad as Sawyers’ but it’s all good because he “plays with a bit of passion”.

He’s awful, yet I’d still play him before Sawyers.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 09:55:10 PM
Looks way out of shape.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 26, 2021, 09:55:20 PM
Mr Useless.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 26, 2021, 09:59:05 PM
I kept telling you we needed to replace Sawyers and Livermore about every other player.

There are league 1 midfielders that are now better than Livermore, can't run, can't shoot, can't pass, limited tackling ability.

How can Harper actually be worse?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on January 26, 2021, 10:00:44 PM
I kept telling you we needed to replace Sawyers and Livermore about every other player.

There are league 1 midfielders that are now better than Livermore, can't run, can't shoot, can't pass, limited tackling ability.

How can Harper actually be worse?
We knew this half way through last season but Bilic neglected it and Dowling should also have dealt with it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on January 26, 2021, 10:01:42 PM
Just a useless employee.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 26, 2021, 10:02:17 PM
Livermore has never been any good. Said from day one.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zac on January 26, 2021, 10:02:50 PM
He offers absolutely nothing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on January 26, 2021, 10:08:26 PM
I don't understand him. Con artist!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 26, 2021, 10:11:10 PM
He offers absolutely nothing.

A very average player with a bit of physicality. Exactly the sort of substandard midfielder that a relegation squad contains. Nothing surprising about any of this. Pulis signed lots of poor players, he is another one.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 26, 2021, 10:22:20 PM
A very average player with a bit of physicality. Exactly the sort of substandard midfielder that a relegation squad contains. Nothing surprising about any of this. Pulis signed lots of poor players, he is another one.

Agreed relegated with Hull and us twice!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: brummyroader on January 26, 2021, 10:24:21 PM
When he arrived he looked athletic got from box to box enthusiastic and could pass, Pulis knocked that out with 3 months.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 10:25:01 PM
Looks completely out of shape. Always a limited footballer but could run around like a headless chicken last year. This year useless
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 26, 2021, 11:06:22 PM
Looks completely out of shape. Always a limited footballer but could run around like a headless chicken last year. This year useless

Would be interesting to see the running stats.  Last ones I saw had Livermore covering more ground on the pitch than any other ayer (including the opposition).

It was noticable tonight, due to Sawyers being extra poor, that there's just too much for him to do alongside Sawyers.  Not an issue when we have games with possession - a nightmare without.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 11:08:53 PM
Would be interesting to see the running stats.  Last ones I saw had Livermore covering more ground on the pitch than any other ayer (including the opposition).

It was noticable tonight, due to Sawyers being extra poor, that there's just too much for him to do alongside Sawyers.  Not an issue when we have games with possession - a nightmare without.

Thats also possible to be fair. I just cant abide to see Sawyers, i think my mind switches off when he's around. Out of interst do you know where is good to look at for running stats?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 26, 2021, 11:11:06 PM
The last ones I saw came up at the end of a live match and was about 11km covered I think.

Think it was the Wolves game as I'd have turned the TV off in all the others.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 26, 2021, 11:13:14 PM
It doesn't matter how much he runs around he's not there to do the cross country ffs. He's got zero quality with a football at his feet.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 11:13:19 PM
The last ones I saw came up at the end of a live match and was about 11km covered I think.

Think it was the Wolves game as I'd have turned the TV off in all the others.

Cheers mate i'll have a Google later. Got to be something somewhere that has it for free.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 11:14:09 PM
It doesn't matter how much he runs around he's not there to do the cross country ffs. He's got zero quality with a football at his feet.

I agree but he used to be able to get some blocks and tackles in. Thats gone now so on the pitch he doesnt exist. His mate Sawyers seems to exist just to bring us down.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 26, 2021, 11:14:40 PM
Whoscored.com is pretty good for in depth stats but doesn't have distance covered.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 11:19:19 PM
Whoscored.com is pretty good for in depth stats but doesn't have distance covered.

Cheers BA

Quick google seems to suggest i have to pay for that information or wait till the seasons ended and then opta kind of release a quick summary of every team for free. I'll wait for that!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: staticboy on January 26, 2021, 11:27:13 PM
When does his contract finish? Come to think of it when does Sawyers 's contract finish?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2021, 11:27:41 PM
When does his contract finish? Come to think of it when does Sawyers 's contract finish?

Both expire in 18 months i believe :(

Edit - yep both June 2022
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Evo_Baggies on January 26, 2021, 11:54:42 PM
Never watched a midfielder continually fail to pass a ball 10 yards.

Maybe Richard Chaplow? I don't know. He can not start against Fulham.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBASPE77 on January 26, 2021, 11:58:46 PM
To think only four years ago he played six times for England. A year later we got to a World Cup semi final. He's been massively exposed this season after some decent performances last season.

He is one of six or seven that need to be gone at the e d of the season .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 27, 2021, 12:00:39 AM
To think only four years ago he played six times for England. A year later we got to a World Cup semi final. He's been massively exposed this season after some decent performances last season.  He is one of six or seven that need to be gone at the e d of the season .

Doesn't say much for the judgement of Gareth Southgate does it - who on a side point I maintain had a very lucky draw and threw it away against Croatia by relying on the likes of John Stones to defend.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on January 27, 2021, 01:22:45 AM
I think that Captain Fantastico chant will go down as one of our most embarrassing songs of all time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 27, 2021, 03:50:54 AM
Only made better to look better playing next to sawyers. He has a lot to do as would anybody...

That being said he dont do anything to anywhere near the level needed for pl and looked bang average in the league below just to think we paid 10m plus probably similar in wages for him since he signed... we need to move him on if anybody daft enough to take him
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: brummyroader on January 27, 2021, 04:58:43 AM
Never watched a midfielder continually fail to pass a ball 10 yards.

Maybe Richard Chaplow? I don't know. He can not start against Fulham.

At least Chaplow was capable of winning it back  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Oldbury24 on January 27, 2021, 09:18:19 AM
Offers nothing other than legs, but even his pressing looks laboured at this level.  Not a vocal captain although in the Champ he can lead by example at times.  I hoped to see him moved on at the end of the play off defeat year but still here.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 27, 2021, 09:22:44 AM
Only made better to look better playing next to sawyers. He has a lot to do as would anybody...

That being said he dont do anything to anywhere near the level needed for pl and looked bang average in the league below just to think we paid 10m plus probably similar in wages for him since he signed... we need to move him on if anybody daft enough to take him

Pretty much how I feel about Livermore, whatever division we are in next season we need to replace him with a younger better version.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 27, 2021, 09:29:33 AM
Never watched a midfielder continually fail to pass a ball 10 yards.

Maybe Richard Chaplow? I don't know. He can not start against Fulham.
Or pass at waist height?  ::) Or pass backwards so often (also at waist height)

He is a very limited footballer, can't pass (as above) and can't tackle and when he does manage to get a foot in he never comes away with the ball.

As for his movement, Giant Haystacks was more nimble on his feet (One for the World of Sport old boys there)

The failure to address this problem in the summer is at the heart of everything that is wrong now and everyone connected to that decision should go.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: richjonawba on January 30, 2021, 05:20:16 PM
The guy is an embarrassment. Not only was he absolutely shocking today for 90minutes in every aspect of the game, but he was also consistently telling everyone to slow it down in possession. If we got any slower in possession we would be standing still. He simply is not good enough for this league, he wasn’t really good enough last season in the league below.

Sawyers has rightly lost his place and as soon as we get a half competent CM Livermore shouldn’t see another minute of football this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2021, 05:31:17 PM
Getting rid of him and Sawyers from the CM is vital.

Looks completely unfit and off the pace to go with lack of footballing ability urgh
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2021, 05:39:16 PM
I agree with the above posts, he was useless today and clearly is not good enough to play in the premier league.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Evo_Baggies on January 30, 2021, 05:55:48 PM
Just looked into the passing statistics for that game. He made 34 passes that game and his pass completion was 55% only Furlong and Johnstone (obviously) was worse.

We can't expect to have any possession or keep the ball in anyway if one of our CMs is only successfully finding our players half the time.

Shambolic
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on January 30, 2021, 06:01:07 PM
I don't think I've ever seen anyone so uncomfortable with the ball at his feet at this level. He basically just runs around fouling people. Needs replacing with Bartley getting the armband.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 30, 2021, 06:04:04 PM
He put in one or 2 decent tackles today, but these fleeting moments are vastly outweighed by his being a yard or two behind the play defensively 90% of the time and the fact he is an absolute cart horse in possession. I literally struggle to remember a worse Albion player in possession of the ball, even in Division 3.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 30, 2021, 06:04:20 PM
55% passing completion!?!?? Disgraceful.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 30, 2021, 06:07:41 PM
He put in one or 2 decent tackles today, but these fleeting moments are vastly outweighed by his being a yard or two behind the play defensively 90% of the time and the fact he is an absolute cart horse in possession. I literally struggle to remember a worse Albion player in possession of the ball, even in Division 3.
Even when he puts a tackle in though he NEVER wins the ball, it's like foot in stop!
This bloke is our captain and he's the least intelligent, weakest reader of the game we have.
We need a leader. Step forward Kyle Bartley.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on January 30, 2021, 06:11:01 PM
He's well past it and even at his peak he was never great at this level. In his debut half-season he was ok but since then we've struggled in the Premier League with him as a regular.
I actually really like the guy...his attitude is top notch and his interview on promotion was fantastic to see. Sadly though he just isn't good enough.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Evo_Baggies on January 30, 2021, 06:12:01 PM
He put in one or 2 decent tackles today, but these fleeting moments are vastly outweighed by his being a yard or two behind the play defensively 90% of the time and the fact he is an absolute cart horse in possession. I literally struggle to remember a worse Albion player in possession of the ball, even in Division 3.

One of those tackles he originally lost the ball though qq :o
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 30, 2021, 06:16:35 PM
There are no redeeming features to his game - everything is on a barometer of average to poor and is a good indicator of why we are where we are. The alternatives are no better either.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 30, 2021, 06:18:49 PM
There are no redeeming features to his game - everything is on a barometer of average to poor and is a good indicator of why we are where we are. The alternatives are no better either.
And therein lies the problem
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2021, 06:21:26 PM
And therein lies the problem

I think we would have been better with Krov in midfield today, at least he could pass the ball to a player in the same shirt. If you recall that's how we turned around our performance at Brighton - subbed Livermore for a footballer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on January 30, 2021, 06:22:17 PM
There are no redeeming features to his game - everything is on a barometer of average to poor and is a good indicator of why we are where we are. The alternatives are no better either.

I think Field would have been a better option and I don't rate him one bit. Can't get fit though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on January 30, 2021, 06:23:49 PM
How many times has he been relegated as a player?

Surely this is no coincidence?

Looks like it’ll be increasing by one come May.

Still, at least he “shows passion” and “plays for the badge”, eh?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: maximus on January 30, 2021, 06:28:47 PM
Gives the ball away so many times, Professional footballer who panics each time he has the ball at his feet. Mid championship level.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Gilsey 56 on January 30, 2021, 06:29:58 PM
Although you cannot fault his commitment, he is simple not good enough, I don't think he can tackle properly and his passing is terrible.
I only hope we get a midfielder in Jacob like or we won't win another game.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2021, 06:32:34 PM
Although you cannot fault his commitment, he is simple not good enough, I don't think he can tackle properly and his passing is terrible.
I only hope we get a midfielder in Yacob like or we won't win another game.

The most galling part of this is that Pulis signed Livermore and dropped Yacob to play him! That's what got us relegated to start with.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on January 30, 2021, 06:46:15 PM
As much as I hate criticizing any Albion player; he was bad today. I understand we have a problem with formations, and personal responsibilities, but I’m struggling to understand where he fits anywhere. He does have a lovely smile though.  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on January 30, 2021, 06:50:08 PM
I think Livermore is awful. I was dumfounded when he made the England squad and I've never really seen a positive from him. From a fans point of view he doesn't look like a leader either.

I'm sure he's a decent fella but I just want us to emulate Yacob and Mulumbu. It's never going to happen.

He also looks too big and he's lost a yard or two of pace that he never had in the first place.

I like him even less than Robson-Kanu.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 30, 2021, 06:51:47 PM
How many times has he been relegated as a player?

Surely this is no coincidence?

Looks like it’ll be increasing by one come May.

Still, at least he “shows passion” and “plays for the badge”, eh?

Agree with this and whilst on the subject the following players have also been relegated
Philips 3 times with us, Blackpool and QPR
Krosiki Hull
Furlong and Austin QPR
Grant Huddersfield
Bartley Swansea
HRK us
Gibbs us
Ajayi relegated to league 1 with Rotherham
Kipre relegated to league 1 with Wigan
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 30, 2021, 06:54:50 PM
I don’t have an issue with players being previously relegated - pereira will be relegated this season but he should not be judged on that.

You can pick up some good players from sides who have been relegated but for us The main issue really is one of quality - Livermore does not have any and he is not on his own on that front.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 30, 2021, 07:03:01 PM
I don’t have an issue with players being previously relegated - pereira will be relegated this season but he should not be judged on that.

You can pick up some good players from sides who have been relegated but for us The main issue really is one of quality - Livermore does not have any and he is not on his own on that front.

Totally agree yet every manager has played him. That's pulis, pardew, moore,slav and sam
He also played under 3 managers at hull who all played him. Bizarre.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 30, 2021, 08:23:15 PM
Livermore has been such a bad signing 10m or whatever it was and probably towards that in wages...

If we can get a decent holding midfielder anchoring behind the midfield of snodgrass Gallagher and give periera the freedom he had second half things will improve immeasurably
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on January 30, 2021, 08:26:51 PM
Totally agree yet every manager has played him. That's pulis, pardew, moore,slav and sam
He also played under 3 managers at hull who all played him. Bizarre.

Just shows how much managers know doesnt it? How he got capped for England is mystifying.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on January 30, 2021, 08:31:57 PM
Bloke is thieving a prem wage, how he gets on pitch is beyond me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on January 30, 2021, 09:17:32 PM
The guy is an embarrassment. Not only was he absolutely shocking today for 90minutes in every aspect of the game, but he was also consistently telling everyone to slow it down in possession. If we got any slower in possession we would be standing still. He simply is not good enough for this league, he wasn’t really good enough last season in the league below.

Sawyers has rightly lost his place and as soon as we get a half competent CM Livermore shouldn’t see another minute of football this season.
If that's true, and I didn't spot it, one of our biggest problems is that we knock the ball around too slowly giving opposition defences all the time to get back into formation.

As a central midfielder, he HAS to be more creative. I actually think his kicking technique is too heavy which results in a lot of his passes being overhit. But he doesn't spot openings, which I agree, is partly the forwards fault, but it takes 2 to tango.   
His best attribute is that he is one of the few leaders in the team, but to push on now, we need a midfielder who either sets up more chances or is a first rate DCM, which Livermore is neither.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 31, 2021, 01:48:49 AM
So it begs the question why is Allardyce still playing Livermore after 6 weeks at the helm?

It surely would've been straight forward to acquire a cheap CM in early January and still go after another quality CM in late January?

He is just awful, offers nothing, contributes greatly to a terrible defensive record.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 31, 2021, 08:25:20 AM
So it begs the question why is Allardyce still playing Livermore after 6 weeks at the helm?

Who else would you choose?

The central midfield options are abysmal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: shilton1 on January 31, 2021, 09:10:55 AM
I would rather just play Field there for abit. Better ball player and no worse defensively.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 31, 2021, 11:48:15 AM
Who else would you choose?

The central midfield options are abysmal.

As I have said in other messages he could've bought a CM from league 1 level or higher for a nominal fee that would've done a better job.

Picking Livermore & Sawyers has cost us points and our FA Cup place.

Everyone naturally points to our Defence.  We have the most Defensive Clearances and Goal Line Blocks in the league, so while we could get better defenders, Livermore is one of the worst midfielders in Premier League history.,witg Sawyers not far behind.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OhBilics on January 31, 2021, 05:20:07 PM
he was also consistently telling everyone to slow it down in possession
I didn't see that. Are you sure he wasn't telling people to try and keep the ball on the floor? The first 45 almost everything we did was up in the air and then coming straight back at us. We lost pretty much every 50/50 ball. For me, that was the main difference between the two halves.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on January 31, 2021, 06:36:03 PM
I thought Livermore had a decent season last year, he seemed more mobile, offered a physical presence and played at a better tempo which as somebody who isnt the best of natural footballers played to his strength.

He had been poor for a couple of seasons prior to that but after a good season last year i was curious how this year would pan out.

Sadly he looks out his depth, i think he tries hard and he wants to do well but he just isnt good enough, i imagine there is personal frustration too as he probably knows he is out his depth and that this is likely his last season at the top level.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sconesy on January 31, 2021, 06:51:19 PM
I thought Livermore had a decent season last year, he seemed more mobile, offered a physical presence and played at a better tempo which as somebody who isnt the best of natural footballers played to his strength.

He had been poor for a couple of seasons prior to that but after a good season last year i was curious how this year would pan out.

Sadly he looks out his depth, i think he tries hard and he wants to do well but he just isnt good enough, i imagine there is personal frustration too as he probably knows he is out his depth and that this is likely his last season at the top level.

Agree completely....the qualities he has once had have sadly left him. Nowhere near dynamic enough to have a positive impact on the pitch at this level, and as his legs go, his lack of footballing ability is all too apparent.

The eyes do not lie, but full respect to the man for his service and professionalism.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Pelada on February 02, 2021, 08:12:51 PM
Should never, ever play for us again. Has completely gone at the game and offers nothing.

I don’t know what’s wrong because he genuinely used to be a good midfielder.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2021, 08:13:35 PM
Should never, ever play for us again. Has completely gone at the game and offers nothing.

I don’t know what’s wrong because he genuinely used to be a good midfielder.


This. From Spurs onwards theres no reason to see him again apart from injuries building up.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 02, 2021, 08:15:33 PM
Should never, ever play for us again. Has completely gone at the game and offers nothing.

I don’t know what’s wrong because he genuinely used to be a good midfielder.

Sums up my feelings about Livermore. With the signings of Maitland-Niles and Yokuslu I'd expect Bartley to be captain and Livermore to be on the bench (if at all).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on February 02, 2021, 08:16:36 PM
One of 4 or 5 in our squad finished at this level and would be barely Ok in the one below .
We hand them new contracts , this is part of our undoing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2021, 08:17:32 PM
One of 4 or 5 in our squad finished at this level and would be barely Ok in the one below .
We hand them new contracts , this is part of our undoing.

The club always looks to do the least it can in terms of transfers by resigning shot players on stupid deals. Until we stop this we are screwed.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on February 02, 2021, 08:18:18 PM

This. From Spurs onwards theres no reason to see him again apart from injuries building up.

I don't want to crucify the guy as I think he's a great person.
However, as a footballer it's no coincidence that we've suffered since he joined. If I recall correctly, he was good in his first season for us which was from January to May. At this point, we were on a bit of a high and it was the peak of Pulis doing well when we finished 10th. Even still, I think we were 7th for most of that season then it ended badly. Since then we got relegated with ease, eventually got up and now we're going down even easier than before. Basically, his entire tenure at the club we've struggled massively, and this is with him as the captain.

As said, I'll always rate him for his interview when we got promoted. However, there's no time for sentiment and he's costing us dearly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on February 02, 2021, 08:19:19 PM
I never want to see him in Albion shirt again but have a horrible nightmare that he will be captain next season with someone simple Alex Neil in the dug out.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBASPE77 on February 02, 2021, 08:19:29 PM
I hope we never see him again. He's deadwood that's been here far too long. Along with a few others he should be gone in the summer. He survived the last relegation he won't survive this
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 02, 2021, 08:19:34 PM
Crazy that he got the blame for their 1st goal for me.  If Snodgrass does his job then there's no danger.  He let's the Sheff Utd player run through and Livermore is the only one to react and is desperate to get across and try and get a block in

Fault lies with Snodgrass for letting the player in on goal, not the player who tries to stop it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on February 02, 2021, 08:21:44 PM
Beggar's believe that we haven't got someone with bigger balls than him for captain because he's are the size of wall nuts.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2021, 08:29:19 PM
I don't want to crucify the guy as I think he's a great person.
However, as a footballer it's no coincidence that we've suffered since he joined. If I recall correctly, he was good in his first season for us which was from January to May. At this point, we were on a bit of a high and it was the peak of Pulis doing well when we finished 10th. Even still, I think we were 7th for most of that season then it ended badly. Since then we got relegated with ease, eventually got up and now we're going down even easier than before. Basically, his entire tenure at the club we've struggled massively, and this is with him as the captain.

As said, I'll always rate him for his interview when we got promoted. However, there's no time for sentiment and he's costing us dearly.


He's just not good enough sadly. He's declining fast. I know hes 31 now but the decline is brutally apparently for all to see. Will have rings run around him in the EFL.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on February 02, 2021, 08:39:12 PM
Crazy that he got the blame for their 1st goal for me. If Snodgrass does his job then there's no danger.  He let's the Sheff Utd player run through and Livermore is the only one to react and is desperate to get across and try and get a block in. Fault lies with Snodgrass for letting the player in on goal, not the player who tries to stop it.

Regardless of Snodgrass input or lack of Livermore moved out of the way of the ball. If he had a Sheff Utd top on the commentators would have commended him for his clever movement.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 02, 2021, 08:43:24 PM
Regardless of Snodgrass input or lack of Livermore moved out of the way of the ball. If he had a Sheff Utd top on the commentators would have commended him for his clever movement.

Yep he did.

He had one decent half a season last season initiating a high press in a midfield three. Other than that he's been dreadful in an Albion shirt.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2021, 10:08:11 PM
I wish we could rip up his contract now
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBASPE77 on February 02, 2021, 10:10:55 PM
I wish we could rip up his contract now

Pulis, Pardew, Moore , Billic, Big Sam. What do they see in this guy? what does he bring, offer, he's no leader .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2021, 10:13:35 PM
Pulis, Pardew, Moore , Billic, Big Sam. What do they see in this guy? what does he bring, offer, he's no leader .

Talks a good game but pulling the hood over these guys eyes.

Now OKAY is available should be zero need to see this guy again this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on February 02, 2021, 11:00:23 PM
Pulis, Pardew, Moore , Billic, Big Sam. What do they see in this guy? what does he bring, offer, he's no leader .

Bilic was the one who made him skipper too
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on February 02, 2021, 11:00:54 PM
Pulis, Pardew, Moore , Billic, Big Sam. What do they see in this guy? what does he bring, offer, he's no leader .

And Shan
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on February 02, 2021, 11:03:00 PM
Talks a good game but pulling the hood over these guys eyes.

Now OKAY is available should be zero need to see this guy again this season.

For this season, perhaps. However, he will be gone when we get relegated and if Livermore still has time on his contract then I can't see him leaving. As mentioned a number of managers have persisted with him so it may not be the end of his time here.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2021, 11:04:18 PM
No i believe we will be back to him and Sawyers next season. Who is going to take these 2 off us?

But 4 months of neither of them starting is some level of relief.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 02, 2021, 11:05:48 PM
He will be the mainstay of our midfield in the championship next season when AMN, Gallagher and Okay return to their respective clubs.

A severely limited footballer. There is nothing else to be said.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on February 02, 2021, 11:06:03 PM
No i believe we will be back to him and Sawyers next season. Who is going to take these 2 off us?

But 4 months of neither of them starting is some level of relief.

Sawyers was a good player for Brentford and first half of the season for us too in the champ
Livermore had one half decent season last year and that's it in his whole career
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2021, 11:12:30 PM
Sawyers was a good player for Brentford and first half of the season for us too in the champ
Livermore had one half decent season last year and that's it in his whole career


With Pereira gone we should play Sawyers in his ACM position. Hes not a CM or DCM.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 03, 2021, 11:50:22 AM
.... if Livermore still has time on his contract then I can't see him leaving......

Contracted to us until June 2022.

Enjoy whatever's left of your morning  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 03, 2021, 12:15:10 PM
He will be the mainstay of our midfield in the championship next season



Please no. However, somehow please let Sawyers and Livermore move on, don't care how or why.

The thought of these two in midfield next season is sickening.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 03, 2021, 12:17:24 PM

With Pereira gone we should play Sawyers in his ACM position. Hes not a CM or DCM.

Except he cant shoot and never creates anything. Nor does he move off the ball. Cant go past anyone.

NO
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 03, 2021, 12:18:59 PM
Except he cant shoot and never creates anything. Nor does he move off the ball. Cant go past anyone.

NO

Thats fair enough!  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 03, 2021, 12:20:44 PM
Thats fair enough!  ;D

Gallagher would actually be an ideal deputy for Pereira but of course he's not our player.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on February 03, 2021, 01:15:18 PM
Except he cant shoot and never creates anything. Nor does he move off the ball. Cant go past anyone.

NO

Are you sure ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 03, 2021, 01:17:34 PM
Are you sure ?

1,000000000000000%.

Dont know what that number is but yeah.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 03, 2021, 02:09:28 PM
1,000000000000000%.

Dont know what that number is but yeah.

About 8 noughts more than Lai's got.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WorcsWBA on February 03, 2021, 03:00:27 PM
Except he cant shoot and never creates anything. Nor does he move off the ball. Cant go past anyone.

NO
This is the wrong thread, but the saddest thing regarding Sawyers is that he can do those things, as the videos below indicate. Trying to turn him into a defensive midfielder, and then pointlessly persisting with it week-in week-out when it clearly wasn't working, has had a massive adverse effect on him.

Video 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KUMuUrM8qA)
Video 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cpFcyUuy2Y)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 03, 2021, 03:07:17 PM
Very true. Bilic and Allardyce has tried to make him something hes not. Can he recover mentally though?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on February 03, 2021, 03:14:28 PM
This is the wrong thread, but the saddest thing regarding Sawyers is that he can do those things, as the videos below indicate. Trying to turn him into a defensive midfielder, and then pointlessly persisting with it week-in week-out when it clearly wasn't working, has had a massive adverse effect on him.

Video 1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7KUMuUrM8qA)
Video 2 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cpFcyUuy2Y)

I think that is a different Sawyers in the video Worcs  ;)

Actually you are right, he is a good player and will be an asset to us next year. There is no doubt he has ability but he has been well and truly shredded this year, and lets be fair he is not the only one in our team. To me he appears to be totally devoid of confidence. Passing into your own net doesn't help, and neither does the racist posts. The manager needs to recognise when someone is struggling and put their arm around them at times.

There is clearly an issue at the moment, but that extends past Romaine. Keeping in line with the thread you could say that Livermore is suffering as well.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mikkyk on February 03, 2021, 03:15:16 PM
Has Livermore ever had a good game for us in the PL?

The best I can think of is Spurs when the ball hit him on the line for the winner.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on February 03, 2021, 04:16:48 PM
Has Livermore ever had a good game for us in the PL?

The best I can think of is Spurs when the ball hit him on the line for the winner.

No, not really. He's a hinderance to us and a massive bonus to the opposition. I don't want to see him play for us again at this level.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBaggieMan on February 03, 2021, 06:30:04 PM
Taxi for Livermore!
To save money, Livermore could share it with Phillips and HRK.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Aztech on February 03, 2021, 06:32:31 PM
Taxi for Livermore!
To save money, Livermore could share it with Phillips and HRK.

I think you are going to need a bloody 17 seater minibus never mind a taxi
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Evo_Baggies on February 05, 2021, 10:45:14 AM
I think if I see Livermore start Sunday Im going to lose it
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 05, 2021, 02:31:21 PM
Jesus Wept:

https://twitter.com/SteMc74/status/1357385866109460481?s=19 (https://twitter.com/SteMc74/status/1357385866109460481?s=19)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Evo_Baggies on February 05, 2021, 02:36:27 PM
Jesus Wept:

https://twitter.com/SteMc74/status/1357385866109460481?s=19 (https://twitter.com/SteMc74/status/1357385866109460481?s=19)

Jesus christ
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 05, 2021, 03:03:34 PM
Being honest, off the top of my head I can’t think of a more limited midfielder we’ve had at the club in the last 15 years.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: miggybaggy on February 05, 2021, 03:05:59 PM
Please forgive my ignorance....what does it mean? I cant see it clearly when I click the link. Does it illustrate his utter inability?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on February 05, 2021, 03:11:16 PM
I think if I see Livermore start Sunday Im going to lose it
I strongly suspect , having heard Allardyce today you may need to find a darkened room !!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WorcsWBA on February 05, 2021, 03:22:06 PM
Jesus Wept:

https://twitter.com/SteMc74/status/1357385866109460481?s=19 (https://twitter.com/SteMc74/status/1357385866109460481?s=19)
You have to wonder why Bilic and Allardyce have been so obsessed with selecting him, because it's not for his captaincy or tackling skills either....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mikkyk on February 05, 2021, 03:33:08 PM
Please forgive my ignorance....what does it mean? I cant see it clearly when I click the link. Does it illustrate his utter inability?

In short, yes.

He is by far the worst midfielder at passing according to the graph.

The worst thing is the line to the left of the y-axis is considerably longer than it is to the right as they've had to make it so much bigger just to fit him on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on February 05, 2021, 03:45:37 PM
In short, yes.

He is by far the worst midfielder at passing according to the graph.

The worst thing is the line to the left of the y-axis is considerably longer than it is to the right as they've had to make it so much bigger just to fit him on.

To add to this, Jake is the Bad Ball Retention, takes risks quadrant.

His passing efficiency is much lower than any other player listed, meaning he doesn't connect on the passes that an average player does. This uses an "expected pass" metric, so I guess we're ok using expected Goals now, too.

Looking at the players in his quadrant, they are attack players - Bruno Fernandes, Harvey Barnes, Kevin De Bruyne...you get the idea. The players are colour coded by their expected assists - because these players are attacking, they generally have high xA values, but not Jake. He is at the bottom end of the scale.

So Jake underperforms Vs the expected pass model, his ball retention is low, and he doesn't make passes that would get assists
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on February 05, 2021, 03:59:46 PM
To add to this, Jake is the Bad Ball Retention, takes risks quadrant.

His passing efficiency is much lower than any other player listed, meaning he doesn't connect on the passes that an average player does. This uses an "expected pass" metric, so I guess we're ok using expected Goals now, too.

Looking at the players in his quadrant, they are attack players - Bruno Fernandes, Harvey Barnes, Kevin De Bruyne...you get the idea. The players are colour coded by their expected assists - because these players are attacking, they generally have high xA values, but not Jake. He is at the bottom end of the scale.

So Jake underperforms Vs the expected pass model, his ball retention is low, and he doesn't make passes that would get assists

Being a bit picky aren't you?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on February 05, 2021, 04:00:41 PM
Being a bit picky aren't you?

No, I'm staying what the graph shows.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on February 05, 2021, 04:02:37 PM
No, I'm staying what the graph shows.
I was being sarcastic !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on February 05, 2021, 04:32:35 PM
I've long had the belief that Livermore benefits from "pedigree bias". What I mean by that totally made up phrase is that he has been able to trade on his background as a promising big 6 club academy product and that has helped him stay in or around the premier league for so long.

He got England caps because he was at Spurs, had made a couple of appearances and we were short of deep lying English midfielders. The fact Spurs sent him to Hull City less than 12 months after his international debut tells it's own story.

He continued to get England caps when playing for us despite putting in poor performances and that "pedigree" as an England international from Spurs academy seems to have convinced a ton of managers that he is a high quality option.

This is despite the fact he doesn't particularly shield a defence very well and doesn't bring much in the way of an attacking threat either. The defence seems to be he is a "box to box" midfielder but he has been immobile for most of his time here.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 06, 2021, 01:08:52 AM
To add to this, Jake is the Bad Ball Retention, takes risks quadrant.

His passing efficiency is much lower than any other player listed, meaning he doesn't connect on the passes that an average player does. This uses an "expected pass" metric, so I guess we're ok using expected Goals now, too.

Looking at the players in his quadrant, they are attack players - Bruno Fernandes, Harvey Barnes, Kevin De Bruyne...you get the idea. The players are colour coded by their expected assists - because these players are attacking, they generally have high xA values, but not Jake. He is at the bottom end of the scale.

So Jake underperforms Vs the expected pass model, his ball retention is low, and he doesn't make passes that would get assists

Would be more akin to xShots surely? ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 06, 2021, 08:49:34 AM
Please no. However, somehow please let Sawyers and Livermore move on, don't care how or why.

The thought of these two in midfield next season is sickening.

I’m with you. Unfortunately both are under contract and there will be no queue of suitors to take them
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on February 06, 2021, 10:06:14 AM
I've long had the belief that Livermore benefits from "pedigree bias". What I mean by that totally made up phrase is that he has been able to trade on his background as a promising big 6 club academy product and that has helped him stay in or around the premier league for so long.

He got England caps because he was at Spurs, had made a couple of appearances and we were short of deep lying English midfielders. The fact Spurs sent him to Hull City less than 12 months after his international debut tells it's own story.

He continued to get England caps when playing for us despite putting in poor performances and that "pedigree" as an England international from Spurs academy seems to have convinced a ton of managers that he is a high quality option.

This is despite the fact he doesn't particularly shield a defence very well and doesn't bring much in the way of an attacking threat either. The defence seems to be he is a "box to box" midfielder but he has been immobile for most of his time here.

I think this is a thing and it would go a long way to explaining how Ravel Morrison keeps getting contracts. I would add that international caps particularly for one of the more high profile international teams probably reinforces it.

I also think there is reputational bias where a player was very good at one point in their career but that point has long since passed often because of injury but subsequent clubs hire them in the hope they somehow recapture the form of 2 or more seasons ago (generally they don't)

I would also throw in golden season syndrome into the mix. This is where a player has a very good season often quite early in their career and then spends the next 5 to 10 years trading off it. Take a bow Mr Benteke.

Returning to the case at hand. I think Livermore has also benefited from at least one very good season with Hull which was enough along with the caps and the "pedigree bias" to sustain a career here it might of tempted a buyer at one point but probably not now.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 06, 2021, 12:06:56 PM
I’m with you. Unfortunately both are under contract and there will be no queue of suitors to take them

Sawyer's in the Champ is fine, infact I'm sure he will be very effective in the right set up with more dynamic players around him but I really don't want another year of Jake thank you... regardless.   Good servant, promotion winning captain etc but just enough.   

A team in the Champ with limited expectations and need of an experienced "leader" would surely be intetested??
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on February 06, 2021, 01:48:05 PM
I've long had the belief that Livermore benefits from "pedigree bias". What I mean by that totally made up phrase is that he has been able to trade on his background as a promising big 6 club academy product and that has helped him stay in or around the premier league for so long.

He got England caps because he was at Spurs, had made a couple of appearances and we were short of deep lying English midfielders. The fact Spurs sent him to Hull City less than 12 months after his international debut tells it's own story.

He continued to get England caps when playing for us despite putting in poor performances and that "pedigree" as an England international from Spurs academy seems to have convinced a ton of managers that he is a high quality option.

This is despite the fact he doesn't particularly shield a defence very well and doesn't bring much in the way of an attacking threat either. The defence seems to be he is a "box to box" midfielder but he has been immobile for most of his time here.
Great point mate and 100% true, you've only got to listen to commentators and pundits.
Dion Dublin was very good when he did our game against Fulham but, at one point he was waxing lyrical about Livermore "He'll know what's required in a situation like this", "He'll take the game by the scruff of the neck", "He's a natural leader", "He'll get on the ball and make things happen" that sort of stuff and I was thinking, "Have you seen him play in the last 5 years Dion?"

Let's hope there's a Championship manager, that's not ours,  that's just as naive come May
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 06, 2021, 03:23:34 PM
Sawyer's in the Champ is fine, infact I'm sure he will be very effective in the right set up with more dynamic players around him but I really don't want another year of Jake thank you... regardless.   Good servant, promotion winning captain etc but just enough.   

A team in the Champ with limited expectations and need of an experienced "leader" would surely be intetested??

He's technically fine for the division but he has to played further forward and if we're going to keep hold of Pereira then we don't really much room for him.

One thing that we should not do is have the idea of Sawyers protecting a back four with Jake Livermore next to him. They were both exposed in the Championship last season and contributed towards a side that did not defend well.

I would certainly look for an upgrade on Livermore. Harrison Reed is the obvious choice should he be available. Better in every department than Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on February 06, 2021, 05:03:38 PM
To add to this, Jake is the Bad Ball Retention, takes risks quadrant.

His passing efficiency is much lower than any other player listed, meaning he doesn't connect on the passes that an average player does. This uses an "expected pass" metric, so I guess we're ok using expected Goals now, too.

Looking at the players in his quadrant, they are attack players - Bruno Fernandes, Harvey Barnes, Kevin De Bruyne...you get the idea. The players are colour coded by their expected assists - because these players are attacking, they generally have high xA values, but not Jake. He is at the bottom end of the scale.

So Jake underperforms Vs the expected pass model, his ball retention is low, and he doesn't make passes that would get assists
any chance these stats could be sent to Allardyce as he can't see what's in front of him on match day.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 14, 2021, 04:42:48 PM
Almost cost us the game with that pathetic pass today.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 14, 2021, 04:44:58 PM
Looks physically shot and that's all he's brought to us. Have to try and move him on although slim chance of anyone being that daft.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on February 14, 2021, 04:47:29 PM
I hate seeing him on the pitch. He's such a poor footballer. As somebody else said, he turned a 3 on 2 opportunity to win it almost into defeat when he couldn't hit a 10 yard pass.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on February 14, 2021, 05:15:05 PM
Usually like playing with ten men when he's on pitch but today he played with a red man ure top on under the blue and white stripes. Allardyce has got a problem with players he brings off the bench especially the midfield cover. They are just not good enough.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 14, 2021, 07:58:47 PM
The extra protection from the midfield is there for all to see now.

I highlighted this as far back as last season.  It's amazing how better the defence now plays!

Say thanks to Jake for his service and get rid at the end of the season for about £300,000, because that's all he's worth.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on February 14, 2021, 08:13:35 PM
The extra protection from the midfield is there for all to see now.

I highlighted this as far back as last season.  It's amazing how better the defence now plays!

Say thanks to Jake for his service and get rid at the end of the season for about £300,000, because that's all he's worth.
Don't get me wrong, if it was my money, I would think you had dramatically over valued but, there will be plenty of suckers willing to pay far more for an ex England international! He's got Forest or Wayne Rooney's Derby written all over him. Hopefully.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on February 14, 2021, 08:16:54 PM
Don't get me wrong, if it was my money, I would think you had dramatically over valued but, there will be plenty of suckers willing to pay far more for an ex England international! He's got Forest or Wayne Rooney's Derby written all over him. Hopefully.

I'm not so sure, isn't he on about £50k p/w? I don't think the transfer would be the issue, but the wages would be for most Championship clubs. There's no reason from his perspective to move at this stage in his career, he may as well stay until he's 33.

Today I thought he did ok, but that pass at the end was awful. He's always been poor at contributing to counter attacks and instead of attacking it put us in trouble.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 14, 2021, 08:18:03 PM
Hes on around 40-45k pw in the PL so 20-22.5k per week in the EFL.

If someone wants him then sell him on a nominal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on February 14, 2021, 09:15:52 PM
Old man/ old school
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBASPE77 on February 14, 2021, 09:40:48 PM
Awful awful pass today, I wouldn't even want him coming off the bench . I think it was Brentford at home the last time Sawyer's and Livermore didn't start for us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SC_Baggie on February 14, 2021, 09:54:50 PM
It was a ghastly pass for many reasons. Why on earth would you leave it short? If anything knock it too far down the pitch so it’s either a break for us or leaves them without an opportunity to counter.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on February 14, 2021, 10:41:14 PM
I've said it before, but I think he has a problem with his kicking technique. He seems to overhit a lot of passes, whilst today just before the end, his pass was underhit.
People may laugh, but there is a correct technique for kicking a football. Pereira's technique is a very good example.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Cardiaccarol on February 14, 2021, 10:47:04 PM
For all his limitations (and I wouldn’t argue)

Last year when we were promoted he was so emotional the poor bloke couldn’t speak and Robinson got sent to rescue him

HE CARES
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on February 14, 2021, 10:51:46 PM
For all his limitations (and I wouldn’t argue)

Last year when we were promoted he was so emotional the poor bloke couldn’t speak and Robinson got sent to rescue him

HE CARES

Very true. He’s limited for sure but cares massively.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 14, 2021, 11:27:01 PM
It was a ghastly pass for many reasons. Why on earth would you leave it short? If anything knock it too far down the pitch so it’s either a break for us or leaves them without an opportunity to counter.

He just tried to measure it through and under hit, ironically he was probably trying too hard to not overhung it and give it away.  Was a very poor pass but he didn't do too much wrong apart from that.  Made some decent clearance.   Pierera gave the ball away just as cheaply in a more dangerous area just after SJ saved Livermore's bacon but that goes unmentioned.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on February 15, 2021, 11:43:19 AM
I've heard it all now bloke cares and he has an issue with his kicking technique. How about he just isn't good enough to play in top division?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on February 15, 2021, 11:47:18 AM
I've no issue with Livermore as such , he clearly has bought into the club . His heart is in it and despite Yesterdays terrible pass he still has the brain , what he doesn't have anymore is mobility .
It was fading during Moore's spell as manager , if had all but gone during the 2nd half of last season yet neither Bilic or Dowling looked at the situation .
He'll be 2nd choice sitter to Okay and thats about it for the season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 15, 2021, 11:49:32 AM
I've no issue with Livermore as such , he clearly has bought into the club . His heart is in it and despite Yesterdays terrible pass he still has the brain , what he doesn't have anymore is mobility .
It was fading during Moore's spell as manager , if had all but gone during the 2nd half of last season yet neither Bilic or Dowling looked at the situation .
He'll be 2nd choice sitter to Okay and thats about it for the season.

It's next season that worries me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 15, 2021, 12:04:43 PM
I don't think Pulis did him any favours, he seemed to bulk up and my guess it was under instruction from the capped wonder.  Mobility was never his strong point and he looks like a bus stuck in first gear sometimes now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on February 15, 2021, 12:19:32 PM
It's next season that worries me.
Agreed , especially if Dowling is still here .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 15, 2021, 12:28:58 PM
Unless he is physically bossing the middle of the park he now offers littke.  A limited footballer at the top level who has made the most of his ability but has seen his impact deteriorate sharply over the last few years.  I can remember the odd game where he has driven the team on in the Champ through sheer force of will and he has promotion as Captain on his CV but he has "gone". On relegation we need to put him out there as a potential free and I'm sure that he can add something to a team outside of the potential top 6 clubs, in the same way Austin seems to have made an impact at QPR.  We cannot have Jake seen as a key player again next year, time to move on as best for all parties.

The fact the management team, whether Billic, Dowling, Pearce some or all thought he could drive a PL midfield worries me immensely.




Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 15, 2021, 12:33:37 PM
Give him off the books, no more encouragement with any substantial game time, 85th minute sub will do.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 15, 2021, 02:24:29 PM
Unless he is physically bossing the middle of the park he now offers littke.  A limited footballer at the top level who has made the most of his ability but has seen his impact deteriorate sharply over the last few years. I can remember the odd game where he has driven the team on in the Champ through sheer force of will and he has promotion as Captain on his CV but he has "gone". On relegation we need to put him out there as a potential free and I'm sure that he can add something to a team outside of the potential top 6 clubs, in the same way Austin seems to have made an impact at QPR.  We cannot have Jake seen as a key player again next year, time to move on as best for all parties.

The fact the management team, whether Billic, Dowling, Pearce some or all thought he could drive a PL midfield worries me immensely.
Not very generous are you? . Well i have to disagree with you, whilst I had doubts about him being good enough for the Premier league, he was a true leader in our promotion season. I went to every match last season prior to lockdown, and no player in the team gave more than Jake, and I am sure that Periera and Diangana thrived because of his efforts. The man was emotionally drained at the end of the season, and I don't think he has recovered mentally.

 season
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on February 15, 2021, 07:29:50 PM
I've heard it all now bloke cares and he has an issue with his kicking technique. How about he just isn't good enough to play in top division?
i agree with that but he wont have to next season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 22, 2021, 07:47:14 AM
Sorry to labour this point.

However as the season is progressing, it shows how a team can be revolutionised by just having 1 quality centre midfielder. 

Let's now see how Villa go without Grealish, Liverpool are hopelessly exposed with the likes of Jones and Milner.  From Saturday, Burnley's centre midfield looked so poor, but they were still an upgrade on Livermore.

I really don't think Livermore is even Championship level any more, serious.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on February 22, 2021, 10:02:38 AM
I really don't think Livermore is even Championship level any more, serious.

I completely agree with you  :o

He was incredibly poor last season - next season he'll be 2 years older. Simply put he isn't good enough. Too cumbersome, doesn't excel at anything. If I could rid the club of 1 player only it would be Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on February 22, 2021, 10:19:51 AM
I completely agree with you  :o

He was incredibly poor last season - next season he'll be 2 years older. Simply put he isn't good enough. Too cumbersome, doesn't excel at anything. If I could rid the club of 1 player only it would be Livermore.
The introduction of Yokuslu shows a) The importance of someone competent in that role b) How dreadful Livermore is at it!

Whether Yokuslu stays or not, the lesson has to be learned that Livermore is not a good enough DM and needs to be replaced once and for all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 22, 2021, 10:20:06 AM
I completely agree with you  :o

He was incredibly poor last season - next season he'll be 2 years older. Simply put he isn't good enough. Too cumbersome, doesn't excel at anything. If I could rid the club of 1 player only it would be Livermore.

Have to say I don't agree with that. A lot of things Livermore was being blamed for last season, Sawyers was being praised for ...sideways , back wards passing was "poor" when it was Livermore but "kept us ticking over" when it was Sawyers. Livermore also contributed 3 goals and 5 assists not bad for someone who was predominantly a DM.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jake-livermore/leistungsdaten/spieler/61832/plus/0?saison=2019

 He's limited as a footballer and definitely not up to Pl standard but to say he's not even Championship standard is stretching it. I hope we can find better to replace him but Livermore would get into most Championship sides midfields.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 22, 2021, 10:20:41 AM
..... If I could rid the club of 1 player only......

........ I'd be spoilt for choice  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 22, 2021, 11:40:37 AM
Have to say I don't agree with that. A lot of things Livermore was being blamed for last season, Sawyers was being praised for ...sideways , back wards passing was "poor" when it was Livermore but "kept us ticking over" when it was Sawyers. Livermore also contributed 3 goals and 5 assists not bad for someone who was predominantly a DM.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/jake-livermore/leistungsdaten/spieler/61832/plus/0?saison=2019

 He's limited as a footballer and definitely not up to Pl standard but to say he's not even Championship standard is stretching it. I hope we can find better to replace him but Livermore would get into most Championship sides midfields.

Yeah, agree.  I never had Livermore down as a proper DM though, Sawyers always played a lot deeper.  I'd say Sawyers was our DM role, just even worse at it and Livermore was more CM.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on February 22, 2021, 11:49:23 AM
Yeah, agree.  I never had Livermore down as a proper DM though, Sawyers always played a lot deeper.  I'd say Sawyers was our DM role, just even worse at it and Livermore was more CM.
Livermore's problem is he's neither.
To be a DM you have to be able to not only tackle, but win the ball. He can't.
To be a CM you have to be able to pass and drive the team forward. He can't.

I know that seems extremely harsh but it's true. He tries hard and is committed but he just isn't good enough in any particular area.

Sawyers at least can pick a pass and retain possession so, whilst I'd prefer neither, if we had to have one or the other in the Champ, it would be him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on February 22, 2021, 11:57:10 AM
could he fill a CH role?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 22, 2021, 12:00:45 PM
could he fill a CH role?

he played that role for Hull City when they had a lot of injuries and did well by all accounts, however we need real CH's playing there and both Ajayi and Bartley will be fine next season in the Championship, and we have O'Shea and Kipre as cover if needed.

Livermore's problem is he's neither.
To be a DM you have to be able to not only tackle, but win the ball. He can't.
To be a CM you have to be able to pass and drive the team forward. He can't.

I know that seems extremely harsh but it's true. He tries hard and is committed but he just isn't good enough in any particular area.

Sawyers at least can pick a pass and retain possession so, whilst I'd prefer neither, if we had to have one or the other in the Champ, it would be him.

Livermore can tackle it's Sawyers who can't/won't.

Livermore managed 5 assists for someone who can't pass or drive the team forward....4 more than Sawyers.

Sawyers might be able to pick a pass but it's usually 2 yds backwards or sideways. Also Sawyers is one of those players that often passes without looking (the own goal against Leeds being the one really obvious example of this).

We need to improve on both for next season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 22, 2021, 12:09:18 PM
Livermore looked good last season playing with good players for that level.

If Livermore played alongside Gundogan and De Bruyne, Man City would still win most games!

I'm isolation he is not even a good Championship player.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on February 22, 2021, 12:30:37 PM
he played that role for Hull City when they had a lot of injuries and did well by all accounts, however we need real CH's playing there and both Ajayi and Bartley will be fine next season in the Championship, and we have O'Shea and Kipre as cover if needed.

Livermore can tackle it's Sawyers who can't/won't.

Livermore managed 5 assists for someone who can't pass or drive the team forward....4 more than Sawyers.

Sawyers might be able to pick a pass but it's usually 2 yds backwards or sideways. Also Sawyers is one of those players that often passes without looking (the own goal against Leeds being the one really obvious example of this).

We need to improve on both for next season.
Well we agree on that.

I won't argue with your stats but I say what I see and I can't remember any of Livermore's assists.
What I do remember his him repeatedly going in for tackles with no thought of actually retaining possession, just getting a foot in, mistiming tackles, misplacing 5 yard passes and hitting passes at waste height, because he doesn't have the composure to take the ball down so hit's it first time.

Sawyers is indeed worse in certain areas but I think, could still be an asset, with a better player alongside (Yokuslu) who would allow him to get further up the pitch where he could do more, and cause less, damage. Only in the Champ though, it would not work in the prem.

I don't think changing Livermore's partner makes any difference and that's the only reason I would go with Sawyers
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 22, 2021, 12:32:33 PM
Livermore looked good last season playing with good players for that level.

If Livermore played alongside Gundogan and De Bruyne, Man City would still win most games!

I'm isolation he is not even a good Championship player.

Good job he plays in a team then!

Livermore is still a good Championship level player as I said before he'd get into most Championship sides midfields.

Do I want him with us in the Championship next season? No, I want us to improve on him and improving the midfield must be a priority.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 22, 2021, 12:37:36 PM
If I were religious I would pray every time I go to bed that we don't have to suffer either of them next season.

We've got to be moving on from players like them.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 22, 2021, 12:46:05 PM
Well we agree on that.

I won't argue with your stats but I say what I see and I can't remember any of Livermore's assists.
What I do remember his him repeatedly going in for tackles with no thought of actually retaining possession, just getting a foot in, mistiming tackles, misplacing 5 yard passes and hitting passes at waste height, because he doesn't have the composure to take the ball down so hit's it first time.

Sawyers is indeed worse in certain areas but I think, could still be an asset, with a better player alongside (Yokuslu) who would allow him to get further up the pitch where he could do more, and cause less, damage. Only in the Champ though, it would not work in the prem.

I don't think changing Livermore's partner makes any difference and that's the only reason I would go with Sawyers
provided much going forward.

He played a short pass to Austin for the equaliser at Blues, he played a pass to Diangana for the 4th goal against Hull, he also played  in Diangana against Cardiff, he played the cross that caused an own goal for us against Forest (Figueirido I think put it in) and he also laid off the freekick that got us an equaliser at Wigan.

Sometimes we only see what we want to see for example, I can't remember Sawyers having any really good games for us, I can't remember a game where he imposed himself or really contributed anything going forward.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 22, 2021, 12:46:37 PM
If I were religious I would pray every time I go to bed that we don't have to suffer either of them next season.

We've got to be moving on from players like them.

Amen to that!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 22, 2021, 02:45:02 PM
Nice to see a few more eyes being opened to how much of a waste of space this guy is. I've only been telling you all for going on 4 years  :D

Captain Fantastico my ****. (Unashamedly plagiarised Jim Royle).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on February 22, 2021, 02:58:16 PM
Never been as bad as some make out but the reality is despite being only 30 ish his mobility and change of pace has faded to the point of no return now . No issue with Jake , always tried his best and bought into the club .
For me you have to look higher to hand out some blame , like a few other Livermore's been declining for a few seasons now yet we hand out new contracts......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on February 22, 2021, 03:23:19 PM
Nice to see a few more eyes being opened to how much of a waste of space this guy is. I've only been telling you all for going on 4 years  :D

Captain Fantastico my ****. (Unashamedly plagiarised Jim Royle).
Very true! 
Hope you'll also be owning up to egging on for Karlan Grant to be signed up.  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on February 22, 2021, 03:26:21 PM
I certainly don't blame Livermore and I would never question his commitment to the cause and he has his moments - the goal v Hull for example - think that was last season.

Perhaps he is Championship level but for me, he's not the level that should be a permanent fixture in teams aiming for automatic promotion.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 22, 2021, 03:35:06 PM
Very true! 
Hope you'll also be owning up to egging on for Karlan Grant to be signed up.  :D

He was the only target, had to back the signing when it was him or nothing. This however is about JL.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on February 23, 2021, 12:58:19 PM
Nice to see a few more eyes being opened to how much of a waste of space this guy is. I've only been telling you all for going on 4 years  :D

Captain Fantastico my ****. (Unashamedly plagiarised Jim Royle).

He is not good enough for where we are now, fact. Neither was he as bad as some made out during the championship seasons. Given the passage of time though, he should be moved on when possible, even though we will be playing in the second tier again next season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on February 23, 2021, 01:20:59 PM
If I were religious I would pray every time I go to bed that we don't have to suffer either of them next season.

We've got to be moving on from players like them.
Well, as someone with a Christian belief, I think God has more important issues in the world than the fate of any football team!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Black Pearl on February 23, 2021, 01:22:54 PM
Nice to see a few more eyes being opened to how much of a waste of space this guy is. I've only been telling you all for going on 4 years  :D

Captain Fantastico my ****. (Unashamedly plagiarised Jim Royle).

Do you really want a list of the number of times you have been horribly wrong as well!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 23, 2021, 02:01:38 PM
Well, as someone with a Christian belief, I think God has more important issues in the world than the fate of any football team!

As someone with a Christian belief you know prayers aren't always answered. On the other hand if you don't ask you don't get. Surprising lack of effort from someone with the eternal love of the almighty in their heart. We know who to blame now and it's clearly not Lai, Dowling, Bilic or Allardyce. You need to up your game fella  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on February 23, 2021, 02:06:14 PM
Well, as someone with a Christian belief, I think God has more important issues in the world than the fate of any football team!
If he could sort global warming I'd gladly see Jake signed for life and playing into his 80's, to be fair.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 23, 2021, 02:32:22 PM
Do you really want a list of the number of times you have been horribly wrong as well!

About players and managers, and not just throwaway match / league predictions? Good luck with that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on February 23, 2021, 03:01:45 PM
As someone with a Christian belief you know prayers aren't always answered. On the other hand if you don't ask you don't get. Surprising lack of effort from someone with the eternal love of the almighty in their heart. We know who to blame now and it's clearly not Lai, Dowling, Bilic or Allardyce. You need to up your game fella  ;) .
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3033111/God-doesn-t-care-wins-Jose-Mourinho-admits-prays-day-kids-wife-happiness-never-seeks-divine-intervention-football.html

Think you'll find Jose Mourinho backs up my view on this. ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 23, 2021, 03:18:59 PM
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3033111/God-doesn-t-care-wins-Jose-Mourinho-admits-prays-day-kids-wife-happiness-never-seeks-divine-intervention-football.html

Think you'll find Jose Mourinho backs up my view on this. ;)

Who listens to what Mourinho has to say half of the time? Probably not even his wife and kids. Hardly a ringing endorsement for your slack approach to devine intervention. Tut tut........  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: The Black Pearl on February 23, 2021, 03:30:30 PM
About players and managers, and not just throwaway match / league predictions? Good luck with that.

Sam Johnstone for instance, Gibbs, Townsend, need I go on, I actually agree Livermore has got progressively worse in the last two seasons, but some of your player opinions have been dire at best!

Against that, at least you express an opinion, which on a football message board is a very good thing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on February 23, 2021, 03:41:42 PM
Sam Johnstone for instance, Gibbs, Townsend, need I go on, I actually agree Livermore has got progressively worse in the last two seasons, but some of your player opinions have been dire at best!

Against that, at least you express an opinion, which on a football message board is a very good thing.

Stand by my appraisal of the 3 players in question  ???
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on February 23, 2021, 04:40:28 PM
Well, as someone with a Christian belief, I think God has more important issues in the world than the fate of any football team!
If our God is too busy, why not try Vishnu. He’s got a thousand eyes and a thousand legs. Imagine him in midfield.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 23, 2021, 06:26:31 PM
If our God is too busy, why not try Vishnu. He’s got a thousand eyes and a thousand legs. Imagine him in midfield.

It wouldn't matter if he had eyes in the back (side) of his head, we'd never pay for the customised shorts or the extra socks and boots.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 23, 2021, 06:50:51 PM
Sam Johnstone for instance, Gibbs, Townsend, need I go on, I actually agree Livermore has got progressively worse in the last two seasons, but some of your player opinions have been dire at best!

Against that, at least you express an opinion, which on a football message board is a very good thing.
The keeper was woeful for two straight seasons....without doubt he’s improved this season, but surely Bon majority of matches alone he gets the thumbs down?
Gibbs murders Townsend all day every day ...

I’m actually standing up for Jacko....look what you’ve done to me 😄
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: timdon on February 23, 2021, 07:11:50 PM
The keeper was woeful for two straight seasons....without doubt he’s improved this season, but surely Bon majority of matches alone he gets the thumbs down?
Gibbs murders Townsend all day every day ...

I’m actually standing up for Jacko....look what you’ve done to me 😄
Agree that we needed to replace Livermore. He is one of a number of players who we should release at the end of the season though I'm far from convinced that we will.
In relation to the allegedly wonderful Gibbs, it's interesting that both Allardyce and Bilic have preferred Townsend when both have been fit. From the perspective of us fans, it seems that you and Jacko are in a very small minority for whom he can do no wrong. In the recent poll in the Gibbs thread, only 4 out of 58 would offer him a new one year contract, and not one person would offer him a 2 year contract. Is going downhill rapidly
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 23, 2021, 10:24:22 PM
Agree that we needed to replace Livermore. He is one of a number of players who we should release at the end of the season though I'm far from convinced that we will.
In relation to the allegedly wonderful Gibbs, it's interesting that both Allardyce and Bilic have preferred Townsend when both have been fit. From the perspective of us fans, it seems that you and Jacko are in a very small minority for whom he can do no wrong. In the recent poll in the Gibbs thread, only 4 out of 58 would offer him a new one year contract, and not one person would offer him a 2 year contract. Is going downhill rapidly
I wouldn’t offer him a contract, but I’d pick him over Townsend...
Gibbs is an all round much better footballer, but now no residual value so we should be looking to replace Gibbs with quality and retain Townsend only as cover IMO
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: saml30 on February 23, 2021, 10:57:15 PM
Don’t know if I agree with this anymore. We seem must more assured defensively with Townsend playing, I also feel his delivery is better. I feel that over the last 2 season Gibbs has regressed hugely
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 24, 2021, 08:16:00 AM
Our only saving grace is that Sean Dyche might fancy him should we be relegated. Otherwise we’re stuck with him and like it or not he’ll be in our first 11 next season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 24, 2021, 08:26:48 AM
Our only saving grace is that Sean Dyche might fancy him should we be relegated. Otherwise we’re stuck with him and like it or not he’ll be in our first 11 next season.

I fear you may be right but I'd like to think that our loans of Gallagher, AMN and Yokuslu have shown the kind of players we need in midfield.
Hopefully Livermore will be an option from the bench at best next season (if we don't manage to sell him)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 24, 2021, 08:52:38 AM
Our only saving grace is that Sean Dyche might fancy him should we be relegated. Otherwise we’re stuck with him and like it or not he’ll be in our first 11 next season.


Really?? Please say its true
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on February 24, 2021, 09:04:36 AM
I'll come back to fitness again. Some won't agree but Livermore started last season looking much leaner and played significantly better for the first half of the season. This was mirrored in our overall team effort - not so much in physical appearance but certainly in energy and intensity. Gradually and certainly after lockdown, Livermore's shape reverted to type and our overall team vibrancy pretty much disappeared also.

I would hope there would be an end of season review into where we are at. I hope that would include  sports science, player fitness monitoring etc.etc.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on February 24, 2021, 09:39:24 AM
Even Burnley aren't going to take on a 31 year old central midfielder with a big wage. The absolute last chance we had of unloading the player was the summer of the last relegation. This is what I constantly bang on about not taking players in their late 20's because the back ends of the contract nearly always end up looking like this. Furthermore Field might be a little bit further advanced in his development had we not bought in Livermore when we did (yes I know injuries)

As it stands next seasons central midfield options are Livermore, Field, Sawyers and Harper. All contracted to 2022. I am not as horrified as some will be by that prospect and a different coach might be able to salvage something from it but Livermore or rather his wages are a limiting factor in developing the squad in the Championship. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on February 24, 2021, 10:18:58 AM
I'll come back to fitness again. Some won't agree but Livermore started last season looking much leaner and played significantly better for the first half of the season. This was mirrored in our overall team effort - not so much in physical appearance but certainly in energy and intensity. Gradually and certainly after lockdown, Livermore's shape reverted to type and our overall team vibrancy pretty much disappeared also.

I would hope there would be an end of season review into where we are at. I hope that would include  sports science, player fitness monitoring etc.etc.
I think so, I don't think we stayed fit during lockdown, maybe something to do with Slaven's laid back approach.  I said elsewhere that it looked Livermore was encouraged to bulk up by Pulis - when you put on the muscle it is hard to lose and turns to fat when you get older if you aren't very careful.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: NJS on February 24, 2021, 10:51:11 AM
The keeper was woeful for two straight seasons....without doubt he’s improved this season, but surely Bon majority of matches alone he gets the thumbs down?
Gibbs murders Townsend all day every day ...

I’m actually standing up for Jacko....look what you’ve done to me 😄

Stockholm syndrome
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on February 24, 2021, 11:37:16 AM
Generally the central midfielders in the 8 role (often described as box to box) migrate out of it from their late 20's onwards. Either to the DM (6) or the AM (10) role. Very few players play out their whole careers as 8's. There are obvious exceptions but generally they are the elite level talents and even here coaches make tweaks elsewhere in their line ups to keep the elite level player at the hub of their team.

Livermore arrived at the point in his career when he wanted to drop into the 6 role and we were perfect because Pulis played with a double 6 in a low block. In this role mobility can be sacrificed for physical strength. By the time Pulis left Livermore was an immobile 6. 

At that point tactically we needed an 8 and it took 12 months for Livermore to get there. All the time the clock is ticking down on him none of this get's easier as he progresses through his career now he is kind of beached being neither and not a player of Premier League quality. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on February 24, 2021, 12:56:11 PM
I'll come back to fitness again. Some won't agree but Livermore started last season looking much leaner and played significantly better for the first half of the season. This was mirrored in our overall team effort - not so much in physical appearance but certainly in energy and intensity. Gradually and certainly after lockdown, Livermore's shape reverted to type and our overall team vibrancy pretty much disappeared also.

I would hope there would be an end of season review into where we are at. I hope that would include  sports science, player fitness monitoring etc.etc.

I definitely agree. he was excellent up to lockdown. Take the Bristol City thread currently active; check his contribution that night. He is no longer that player though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 24, 2021, 01:05:02 PM
Livermore has had a good half season since he's been here. That isnt good enough and he's past his peak given his age and is only going to regress further.

If people at the club are doing their jobs properly he will be moved out in the summer one way or another. Sawyers as well.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on February 24, 2021, 04:04:39 PM
Livermore has had a good half season since he's been here. That isnt good enough and he's past his peak given his age and is only going to regress further.

If people at the club are doing their jobs properly he will be moved out in the summer one way or another. Sawyers as well.
I'm not sure it's anyone's job to move on players who are under contract. Unless someone shows an interest in them it's close to impossible.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 24, 2021, 06:26:32 PM

Really?? Please say its true

Well there’s nothing concrete but it was more tongue in cheek due to Dyche and his obsession for average British footballers. I can’t see anyone else in the division who would want Livermore in their sides.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 24, 2021, 06:41:49 PM
Ahhhh ok now that's ruined my day  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 23, 2021, 06:55:56 AM
Has been excellent in the first 4 games of the season, formed a good partnership with Mowatt, and looks as fit as anyone in the squad.
In the "incoming transfer" topics, always references to "need to improve on Livermore",
well i have news for those of that particular persuasion, with our miserly budget,
it ay gunna appen.
Keep it up Captain Fantastico  :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on August 23, 2021, 08:11:17 AM
Has been excellent in the first 4 games of the season, formed a good partnership with Mowatt, and looks as fit as anyone in the squad.
In the "incoming transfer" topics, always references to "need to improve on Livermore",
well i have news for those of that particular persuasion, with our miserly budget,
it ay gunna appen.
Keep it up Captain Fantastico  :)

To be fair he's done OK.
Nothing flashy, get's the ball to those that can play.
Unlucky not to score on Sat with his initial shot and then the follow up.
Prone to the odd act of retribution which could be costly at times.
Always seems to be talking to the ref, especially noted that he tends to push the opposition players away from the ref to stop them talking themselves into a yellow card.
I think he'll do for this season at least.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on August 23, 2021, 09:11:52 AM
Has been excellent in the first 4 games of the season, formed a good partnership with Mowatt, and looks as fit as anyone in the squad.
In the "incoming transfer" topics, always references to "need to improve on Livermore",
well i have news for those of that particular persuasion, with our miserly budget,
it ay gunna appen.
Keep it up Captain Fantastico  :)

he's looked good this season so far because he's got his fitness under control again, last season he was massive again like in the season under Moore.

and also because this is his level now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on August 23, 2021, 10:42:08 AM
Livermore is adequate for the Championship, no more.  We all know that if promoted he then becomes pretty useless.

If we can somehow acquire Yokuslu in the next week, then it would be fantastic.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on August 23, 2021, 01:41:46 PM
Livermore is adequate for the Championship, no more.  We all know that if promoted he then becomes pretty useless.

If we can somehow acquire Yokuslu in the next week, then it would be fantastic.

I shouldn't hold your breath  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on August 23, 2021, 04:01:02 PM
Even Burnley aren't going to take on a 31 year old central midfielder with a big wage. The absolute last chance we had of unloading the player was the summer of the last relegation. This is what I constantly bang on about not taking players in their late 20's because the back ends of the contract nearly always end up looking like this. Furthermore Field might be a little bit further advanced in his development had we not bought in Livermore when we did (yes I know injuries)

As it stands next seasons central midfield options are Livermore, Field, Sawyers and Harper. All contracted to 2022. I am not as horrified as some will be by that prospect and a different coach might be able to salvage something from it but Livermore or rather his wages are a limiting factor in developing the squad in the Championship.

Correct, but Tony Pulis loved to do that and signed loads of duff older players with no resale value. If you recall Jake replaced Yacob and once that happened we went from a side that stayed in the premiership every season to one that got relegated. Has Livermore ever not got relegated with us from the Prem?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 23, 2021, 04:03:07 PM
.....Has Livermore ever not got relegated with us from the Prem?

Yes, the season he came in  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 23, 2021, 04:35:24 PM
Correct, but Tony Pulis loved to do that and signed loads of duff older players with no resale value. If you recall Jake replaced Yacob and once that happened we went from a side that stayed in the premiership every season to one that got relegated. Has Livermore ever not got relegated with us from the Prem?

I'm struggling to see what your point is? You appear to be blaming our relegation in 2017/18 on Livermore.
If you're point is more about not signing players in their late 20's then in that season we signed Gibbs who was nearly 28 on a 4 year contract and Barry who was 36, so again not sure why you seem to be singling Livermore out.
In centre midfield that season we played Livermore, Barry, Brunt, Morrison, Krychowiak, Field and Yacob. Livermore also contributed the most goals to the team of those players with a paltry 2.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on August 23, 2021, 05:09:09 PM
I'm struggling to see what your point is? You appear to be blaming our relegation in 2017/18 on Livermore.
If you're point is more about not signing players in their late 20's then in that season we signed Gibbs who was nearly 28 on a 4 year contract and Barry who was 36, so again not sure why you seem to be singling Livermore out.
In centre midfield that season we played Livermore, Barry, Brunt, Morrison, Krychowiak, Field and Yacob. Livermore also contributed the most goals to the team of those players with a paltry 2.

No, I wouldn't blame one individual player for a relegation. I agree with you that we should not have been signing Gibbs and Livermore, Barry on a short term deal I could stomach and I think he was a free anyway? If you re-read my post I was pining the blame on Tony Pulis for that. If you are suggesting Livermore is a premier league player, I would disagree with you. Massive downgrade on Yacob who was somewhat of an unsung hero at protecting the defence.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 23, 2021, 05:13:43 PM
No, I wouldn't blame one individual player for a relegation. I agree with you that we should not have been signing Gibbs and Livermore, Barry on a short term deal I could stomach and I think he was a free anyway? If you re-read my post I was pining the blame on Tony Pulis for that. If you are suggesting Livermore is a premier league player, I would disagree with you. Massive downgrade on Yacob who was somewhat of an unsung hero at protecting the defence.

thanks for clarifying. Totally agree Pulis (and Pardew) were to blame for the relegation. My point was that Livermore was no worse than any of the other midfield options that played that season. Some were better players but didn't perform as well as Livermore.

Livermore was a premier league player when we signed but but he's not anymore, as was sadly obvious last season. He is however good enough at Championship level, that's not to say I don't want us to get an upgrade on him to compliment Mowatt.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on August 23, 2021, 05:17:59 PM
For what it's worth, whilst at Hull Livermore had 3 Premier League seasons and 1 Championship season. With us, he's currently had 3 Premier League seasons and 2 Championship seasons.
To me, that says that he's at the top end of the Championship, and bottom end of the Premier League.

I think he looks much better without Sawyers anyway and will do for this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 23, 2021, 05:19:34 PM
Don't fall over yourselves lads, to give credit where due.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 23, 2021, 05:27:21 PM
Don't fall over yourselves lads, to give credit where due.

Think I've given a fair assessment of Jake Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 23, 2021, 06:08:46 PM
I day say he is a Premier League player now or next season . I think that most of the current squad have been assessed as not of Premier league standard.
We ay in the Premier League, but the whole "first eleven" is doing very nicely thank you in the Championship. If we achieve promotion we may find that some of our players may have developed into Premier League enabled players, but Jake ay one of them an he wo be on his own
He is presently good enough to play in any team in this division.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 23, 2021, 07:45:54 PM
Dear me,  he puts in 1 good tackle where 99% of us expected him to get sent off and we get these demands for "credit"  :o ;D

Like your style 68.

For what it's worth I think he's been below average standard for the division in the matches so far, constantly gives the ball away still. Statue-like on a couple of goals we've conceded and his big deficiencies are being covered by the excellent Alex Mowatt who actually deserves our effusive praise.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 23, 2021, 08:03:59 PM
Dear me,  he puts in 1 good tackle where 99% of us expected him to get sent off and we get these demands for "credit"  :o ;D

Like your style 68.

For what it's worth I think he's been below average standard for the division in the matches so far, constantly gives the ball away still. Statue-like on a couple of goals we've conceded and his big deficiencies are being covered by the excellent Alex Mowatt who actually deserves our effusive praise.

According to sofascore stats Livermore has lost possession 51 times in the 4 league games so far, Mowatt has lost possession 84 times in the same 4 games. Only against Sheff Utd did Livermore give away more possession than Mowatt (15 times as opposed to 10.)

www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-bournemouth/iskb

https://www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-luton-town/isxb

https://www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-sheffield-united/isp

https://www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-blackburn-rovers/isW

Mowatt has had an overall greater effect for us than Livermore but as far as giving away possession he's much worse.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 23, 2021, 08:15:35 PM
According to sofascore stats Livermore has lost possession 51 times in the 4 league games so far, Mowatt has lost possession 84 times in the same 4 games. Only against Sheff Utd did Livermore give away more possession than Mowatt (15 times as opposed to 10.)

www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-bournemouth/iskb

https://www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-luton-town/isxb

https://www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-sheffield-united/isp

https://www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-blackburn-rovers/isW

Mowatt has had an overall greater effect for us than Livermore but as far as giving away possession he's much worse.

It's the nature of the passes they're trying to make. Thanks for putting in the time to put that together though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on August 23, 2021, 08:37:21 PM
The issue with Livermore is that we paid £11m for his services. The majority of WBA singings in last 20 yrs have been sensational, which has given rise to multiple Greed League seasons.

Just a selection -

Koren FREE
Olsson £850K
McAuley FREE
Gera £1.5m
Mulumbu £100K
Pereira £8.5m
Koumas £2.5m
Clement £100K
Robinson P £450K
Odemwingie £1.5m

Livermore doesn't scream VFM at £11m, all we are getting now is longevity.

At least he's not as bad as Burke, who is the worst signing in our history by a million miles  :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on August 23, 2021, 08:41:49 PM
The issue with Livermore is that we paid £11m for his services. The majority of WBA singings in last 20 yrs have been sensational, which has given rise to multiple Greed League seasons.

Just a selection -

Koren FREE
Olsson £850K
McAuley FREE
Gera £1.5m
Mulumbu £100K
Pereira £8.5m
Koumas £2.5m
Clement £100K
Robinson P £450K
Odemwingie £1.5m

Livermore doesn't scream VFM at £11m, all we are getting now is longevity.

At least he's not as bad as Burke, who is the worst signing in our history by a million miles  :)

Nacer Chadli ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on August 23, 2021, 08:50:57 PM
Nacer Chadli ?

Just looked this up -

Chadli £13m, 36 apps, 6 goals, sold for around £10m.

Burke £15m, 20 apps, 0 goals.

There's no comparison, Chadli was x3 better.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on August 23, 2021, 08:53:33 PM
The issue with Livermore is that we paid £11m for his services. The majority of WBA singings in last 20 yrs have been sensational, which has given rise to multiple Greed League seasons.

Just a selection -

Koren FREE
Olsson £850K
McAuley FREE
Gera £1.5m
Mulumbu £100K
Pereira £8.5m
Koumas £2.5m
Clement £100K
Robinson P £450K
Odemwingie £1.5m

Livermore doesn't scream VFM at £11m, all we are getting now is longevity.

At least he's not as bad as Burke, who is the worst signing in our history by a million miles  :)

I suspect most clubs could pick out 10 good deals in 20 years. We have probably signed 100 players in that time. I’m not sure 1 in 10 is enough to call our business sensational.

Our big money signings have been poor in the main. Sessegnon, Ideye, Chadli, Burke, Zohore, Anichebe, Grant (to date), Livermore, Chester, Mcmanaman, Valero, Zheng. That’s 12 of our top 20 biggest fees according to Transfermarkt that have not provided value.  That’s far too many.  When we do get one (Pereira) we let him go far too easily.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on August 23, 2021, 09:46:34 PM
I suspect most clubs could pick out 10 good deals in 20 years. We have probably signed 100 players in that time. I’m not sure 1 in 10 is enough to call our business sensational.

Our big money signings have been poor in the main. Sessegnon, Ideye, Chadli, Burke, Zohore, Anichebe, Grant (to date), Livermore, Chester, Mcmanaman, Valero, Zheng. That’s 12 of our top 20 biggest fees according to Transfermarkt that have not provided value.  That’s far too many.  When we do get one (Pereira) we let him go far too easily.



I could name a long list of other superb VFM signings, the 10 I gave scratched the surface -

Hughes £250K
McInnes £400K
Balis £150K
Fox £200K
Kilbane £1m
Maresca NOMINAL
Morrison £1.5m
Brunt £3m
Dobie £150K
Yacob £150K

Surely we have got a lot more right than wrong?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 23, 2021, 10:30:53 PM
I day ask for all this .................just be nice to Jake. I am fully aware he ay as good as Mowatt, an I dow remember sayin he was.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 23, 2021, 10:44:10 PM
Think he's had a reasonable start to the season all be it alongside a very accomplished player at this level. Whilst fully acknowledging Jake's no world beater I feel he's contributing more than some would suggest.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on August 23, 2021, 11:14:01 PM
Think he's had a reasonable start to the season all be it alongside a very accomplished player at this level. Whilst fully acknowledging Jake's no world beater I feel he's contributing more than some would suggest.

A well balanced view. He’s made a solid start and fully deserves to be a first choice starter at present. More than capable at this level.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 24, 2021, 08:56:53 AM
It's the nature of the passes they're trying to make. Thanks for putting in the time to put that together though.

Mowatt's passing accuracy is higher than Livermore so I don't think it's the passing, Livermore makes more clearances than Mowatt which you'd expect to go to the opposition yet he loses possession a lot less than Mowatt. There are many reasons why a player loses possession but the fact is Livermore hasn't lost possession as much as Mowatt.

My point is if you are going to make a comment like "he gives the ball away too much" as a means of criticising him then it's hypocritical to then not also criticise a player that has given the ball away many more times.


Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbastrollers on August 24, 2021, 09:25:58 AM
Mowatt's passing accuracy is higher than Livermore so I don't think it's the passing, Livermore makes more clearances than Mowatt which you'd expect to go to the opposition yet he loses possession a lot less than Mowatt. There are many reasons why a player loses possession but the fact is Livermore hasn't lost possession as much as Mowatt.

My point is if you are going to make a comment like "he gives the ball away too much" as a means of criticising him then it's hypocritical to then not also criticise a player that has given the ball away many more times.

Well done, Hull!!
When you are into a hate campaign - don’t let facts get in the way, of your obsession.
Sam, Jake, move on to another victim- I’m sure there are others in the pipeline.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 24, 2021, 09:46:37 AM
The issue with Livermore is that we paid £11m for his services. The majority of WBA singings in last 20 yrs have been sensational, which has given rise to multiple Greed League seasons.

Just a selection -

Koren FREE
Olsson £850K
McAuley FREE
Gera £1.5m
Mulumbu £100K
Pereira £8.5m
Koumas £2.5m
Clement £100K
Robinson P £450K
Odemwingie £1.5m

Livermore doesn't scream VFM at £11m, all we are getting now is longevity.

At least he's not as bad as Burke, who is the worst signing in our history by a million miles  :)

I really don't think the "majority" of our signings have been sensational.  In 10 years we have signed a lot of very very poor players far outweighing the list you've got there.  All you've done there is list the players who turned out to be good signings - and considering the majority of them came from a time when our average spend was low, and the average transfer fees were a lot lower it's no surprise the fees would look a lot better.  I bet you would get the same with pretty much any other club.

If it was that easy to sign players like Mulumbu for £100k then clubs would be doing that all over the place.  Those gems are really hard to find, which is why in 20 years you've picked out 10 players in 100+ signings.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 24, 2021, 10:03:49 AM
Can we stick to discussing Jake Livermore in this thread please. Our transfers over the last 10 or so years years should be discussed elsewhere.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on August 24, 2021, 10:18:31 AM
Has been excellent in the first 4 games of the season, formed a good partnership with Mowatt, and looks as fit as anyone in the squad.
In the "incoming transfer" topics, always references to "need to improve on Livermore",
well i have news for those of that particular persuasion, with our miserly budget,
it ay gunna appen.
Keep it up Captain Fantastico  :)

Not sure what games you've been watching, still the weakest link in the chain for me, the amount of times Mowatt is battling against 2 players in the middle with Livermore nowhere to be seen is frustrating.

1 luckily well timed desperate lunge against Blackburn doesnt make the rest of his performances any better.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 24, 2021, 10:54:25 AM
Not sure what games you've been watching, still the weakest link in the chain for me, the amount of times Mowatt is battling against 2 players in the middle with Livermore nowhere to be seen is frustrating.

1 luckily well timed desperate lunge against Blackburn doesnt make the rest of his performances any better.
Been to all four mate, and watched every minute. One thing for sure if you don't watch live, then whilst you do have immediate access to action replays, with this particular style of football, you are generally following the ball, and do not see all of the tremendous effort being put in "off camera". As for the "1 luckily well timed desperate lunge" comment I truly despair. Never mind I'm sure Jake appreciated the "Captain Fantastico" rendition from the fans.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on August 24, 2021, 01:37:55 PM
Have also been to the games mate and I did not join in with the captain fantastico nonsense - the moment a new midfielder comes in, Livermore is the first one out of the starting XI IMO - just depends if he has sucked up to the manager enough in the meantime on whether it's an immediate swap from Val's point of view.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 24, 2021, 02:39:21 PM
Have also been to the games mate and I did not join in with the captain fantastico nonsense - the moment a new midfielder comes in, Livermore is the first one out of the starting XI IMO - just depends if he has sucked up to the manager enough in the meantime on whether it's an immediate swap from Val's point of view.
So any midfielder over Jake ? provided Jake hasn't "sucked up" to VI ? I think this manager is a bit more scientific than that.
We won't be signing any big name on our meagre budget in my opinion.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Ronnie Allen on August 24, 2021, 03:58:46 PM
According to sofascore stats Livermore has lost possession 51 times in the 4 league games so far, Mowatt has lost possession 84 times in the same 4 games. Only against Sheff Utd did Livermore give away more possession than Mowatt (15 times as opposed to 10.)

www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-bournemouth/iskb

https://www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-luton-town/isxb

https://www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-sheffield-united/isp

https://www.sofascore.com/west-bromwich-albion-blackburn-rovers/isW

Mowatt has had an overall greater effect for us than Livermore but as far as giving away possession he's much worse.

if you're a midfielder this system you're not there to play through the opposition.  From what i can see, Ismael doesn't want to play football in the middle third; he wants to get the ball forward to the front players or to win it back as quickly as possible.  This means the midfield is where the battle for possession takes place.  once the ball is won it's immediately propelled forward.  This results in our giving the ball away so frequently and the seemingly endless head tennis rallies. ALL our midfielders concede possession, it's the nature of Ismael's way of playing.  I don't know if there's a place for someone to put their foot on the ball and/or play defence splitting passes and/or play combinations through the opposition in this system.  There should be, but we haven't seen it yet.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 24, 2021, 05:47:00 PM
if you're a midfielder this system you're not there to play through the opposition.  From what i can see, Ismael doesn't want to play football in the middle third; he wants to get the ball forward to the front players or to win it back as quickly as possible.  This means the midfield is where the battle for possession takes place.  once the ball is won it's immediately propelled forward.  This results in our giving the ball away so frequently and the seemingly endless head tennis rallies. ALL our midfielders concede possession, it's the nature of Ismael's way of playing.  I don't know if there's a place for someone to put their foot on the ball and/or play defence splitting passes and/or play combinations through the opposition in this system.  There should be, but we haven't seen it yet.


I think as pointed out above that this current system certainly suits Livermore as it does mask some of his poorer qualities.

Our game is very much aggressively pressing the positon and playing in the right areas, some percentage football if you wish - on that basis he looks fitter than previous seasons and he can get around the pitch more and isn't required to play through the opposition.

That's not knocking his efforts this season - he, like the others have slotted very well into the system - the real benefit is having a very good technically Alex Mowatt next to him.

If our system relied on playing through the midfield lines and had a more possession based outlook then we'd certainly be requiring an upgrade - but he should be able to carry us through this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on August 24, 2021, 06:03:11 PM
Mowatt's passing accuracy is higher than Livermore so I don't think it's the passing, Livermore makes more clearances than Mowatt which you'd expect to go to the opposition yet he loses possession a lot less than Mowatt. There are many reasons why a player loses possession but the fact is Livermore hasn't lost possession as much as Mowatt.

My point is if you are going to make a comment like "he gives the ball away too much" as a means of criticising him then it's hypocritical to then not also criticise a player that has given the ball away many more times.

Of course it's the passing. If he has a higher passing accuracy but loses possession more all that shows is he's making a considerably higher number of passes than Livermore. I dread to think how many times he'd have given it away from the same number of attempts.

So not remotely hypocritical if you apply critical thinking...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on August 24, 2021, 06:09:58 PM
Of course it's the passing. If he has a higher passing accuracy but loses possession more all that shows is he's making a considerably higher number of passes than Livermore. I dread to think how many times he'd have given it away from the same number of attempts.

So not remotely hypocritical if you apply critical thinking...

Thats your forte isn't it "critical"  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 25, 2021, 09:04:21 AM
Of course it's the passing. If he has a higher passing accuracy but loses possession more all that shows is he's making a considerably higher number of passes than Livermore. I dread to think how many times he'd have given it away from the same number of attempts.

So not remotely hypocritical if you apply critical thinking...

 It is hypocritical as you have damned one player for giving the ball away but not another for giving it away more.

Passing isn't the only criteria used to decide "losing possession". So no, it isn't just about passing, being tackled and losing the ball would also be losing possession.




Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 25, 2021, 09:08:12 AM
if you're a midfielder this system you're not there to play through the opposition.  From what i can see, Ismael doesn't want to play football in the middle third; he wants to get the ball forward to the front players or to win it back as quickly as possible.  This means the midfield is where the battle for possession takes place.  once the ball is won it's immediately propelled forward.  This results in our giving the ball away so frequently and the seemingly endless head tennis rallies. ALL our midfielders concede possession, it's the nature of Ismael's way of playing.  I don't know if there's a place for someone to put their foot on the ball and/or play defence splitting passes and/or play combinations through the opposition in this system.  There should be, but we haven't seen it yet.

I totally agree with you, my point was that Jacko was criticising one player for giving the ball away when another player had given it away more yet wasn't being criticised.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 25, 2021, 09:10:13 AM
I don't feel you need to see any stats to know that Livermore's passing is fairly atrocious.

He can be carried in this system, but we are crying out for him to be improved upon.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 25, 2021, 09:25:02 AM
I totally agree with you, my point was that Jacko was criticising one player for giving the ball away when another player had given it away more yet wasn't being criticised.

Mowatt has an end product. Jake doesn't for the most part. Totally different players playing in a system requiring different kinds of intensity. One creates, one bullies.

Not much point trying to compare the two when their qualities complement each other. Both do a job but one could more easily be improved upon to enhance the team's end product. It isn't Mowatt.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 25, 2021, 10:23:20 AM
I don't feel you need to see any stats to know that Livermore's passing is fairly atrocious.

He can be carried in this system, but we are crying out for him to be improved upon.
Mowatt has an end product. Jake doesn't for the most part. Totally different players playing in a system requiring different kinds of intensity. One creates, one bullies.

Not much point trying to compare the two when their qualities complement each other. Both do a job but one could more easily be improved upon to enhance the team's end product. It isn't Mowatt.

You both make very valid points but none of it is relevant to the fact that Jacko calls out Livermore for giving the ball away yet doesn't call out Mowatt for doing it more often. If you criticise a player using one criteria then you should also criticise another player for failing in the same criteria.

I'm not comparing the two, I know and have stated that Mowatt is a better all round player than Livermore. I'd love us to get an improvement on Livermore....and a few others.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on August 25, 2021, 02:33:54 PM
Although ball winning is probably his strongest asset, he should be making more of a contribution to goals scored from his central midfield position. I can't remember many occasions where he picks out a through pass which puts someone through on goal. He also needs to offer more of a goal threat himself.  I will be gobsmacked if he gets anywhere near Mowatt's totals on both those counts this season. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on August 25, 2021, 04:41:02 PM
Who in their right mind is comparing Jake's passing to Alex Mowatt? It's like comparing Dawn French to Margot Robbie.

Livermore's passing ranges between poor to terrible most of the time. Anyone watching him play should be able to spot that. Look at Mowatt assist for Robinson on his debut at Bournemouth, perfectly weighted pass whilst on the run past their defender for our equaliser. I don't remember Livermore ever doing that in an Albion top and he has 151 appearances.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on August 25, 2021, 05:34:08 PM
Who in their right mind is comparing Jake's passing to Alex Mowatt? It's like comparing Dawn French to Margot Robbie.

Livermore's passing ranges between poor to terrible most of the time. Anyone watching him play should be able to spot that. Look at Mowatt assist for Robinson on his debut at Bournemouth, perfectly weighted pass whilst on the run past their defender for our equaliser. I don't remember Livermore ever doing that in an Albion top and he has 151 appearances.

Not a fan of the larger ladies then?  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 26, 2021, 11:47:48 AM
Who in their right mind is comparing Jake's passing to Alex Mowatt? It's like comparing Dawn French to Margot Robbie.

Livermore's passing ranges between poor to terrible most of the time. Anyone watching him play should be able to spot that. Look at Mowatt assist for Robinson on his debut at Bournemouth, perfectly weighted pass whilst on the run past their defender for our equaliser. I don't remember Livermore ever doing that in an Albion top and he has 151 appearances.

nobody is comparing them.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Evo_Baggies on August 26, 2021, 12:06:45 PM
You both make very valid points but none of it is relevant to the fact that Jacko calls out Livermore for giving the ball away yet doesn't call out Mowatt for doing it more often. If you criticise a player using one criteria then you should also criticise another player for failing in the same criteria.

Depends on the type of pass for me, I see Livermore give the ball way a lot in positions where he should have easily made the pass (usually sideways) Mowatt does give it away but you can see he is always trying the more difficult pass, through balls, quick round the corners etc. I feel with those players you have to accept they will lose possession.

As for Dawn French, I'd rather have her in midfield than Jake some games
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 26, 2021, 01:32:12 PM
I've noticed that if Jake misplaces an easy pass the forum is instantly full of moans.  When other players misplace similar passes, or easier, it's not even mentioned. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on August 26, 2021, 01:47:23 PM
I've noticed that if Jake misplaces an easy pass the forum is instantly full of moans.  When other players misplace similar passes, or easier, it's not even mentioned.
I don't mind players misplacing passes too much if they can spot the killer through passes which split defences. Pereira's passes were often off the mark, but on the other  hand  he could spot potential goal scoring openings for others. He also could weight passes well. With Jake, his forward passes are too imprecise. The sideways ones don't usually get us further, so when they get misplaced its even more irritating. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dorrans17 on August 29, 2021, 12:07:08 PM
Not one for knocking players, but the amount of times he had space on the ball, and the first thing that comes into his head is smash it up the park.

Very frustrating, especially when our goal came from a bit of composure from Furlong in the middle of the park.

We really are crying out for another technical player with Mowatt.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 29, 2021, 12:16:37 PM
Better than Mowatt last night without a doubt
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on August 29, 2021, 12:18:08 PM
Better than Mowatt last night without a doubt
Agreed, in impressed with mowatt  last night
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Webby on August 29, 2021, 12:45:58 PM
Part of the crew that saved the fan from a steward too. Lot of time for that
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 29, 2021, 01:52:04 PM
Not one for knocking players, but the amount of times he had space on the ball, and the first thing that comes into his head is smash it up the park.

Very frustrating, especially when our goal came from a bit of composure from Furlong in the middle of the park.

We really are crying out for another technical player with Mowatt.

Every player does that, it's clearly under instruction.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dorrans17 on August 29, 2021, 02:30:01 PM
Every player does that, it's clearly under instruction.

I understand a more direct approach has taken priority, when a Centre Halve pings it forward  I get it. When you receive the ball in the centre of the park with no opposition within 15 yards of you, a pass should be picked.

Not slating Jake every players has there pros & cons.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 29, 2021, 02:30:32 PM
Part of the crew that saved the fan from a steward too. Lot of time for that
Yep…whilst effort should be mandatory, he always puts a shift in….gives a **** and has actually shown some good leadership …
He probably knows he’s not the best technically , and I would improve on him, but he at least gives his best effort and not all “pro” footballers can say that ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: brummyroader on August 29, 2021, 02:48:23 PM
Part of the crew that saved the fan from a steward too. Lot of time for that

What happened mate? The fan that ran on?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on August 29, 2021, 03:12:53 PM
Better than Mowatt last night without a doubt

Agreed. He did his job last night and, I am sure, that is what Val would say about his display.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 29, 2021, 03:43:46 PM
I understand a more direct approach has taken priority, when a Centre Halve pings it forward  I get it. When you receive the ball in the centre of the park with no opposition within 15 yards of you, a pass should be picked.

Not slating Jake every players has there pros & cons.

Yeah, I agree, my point was that every player does it, not just Jake yet here we are in a Livermore thread.  We can hardly have a go at players who are obeying the manager's instructions.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: festerp on August 29, 2021, 03:44:22 PM
nobody is comparing them.

The real comparison is who grows a better set of sideburns.  Jake looks to win that point.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baltic on August 29, 2021, 04:09:37 PM
I think Jake is doing a decent job for the side.  He's doing as instructed and at this level is still an asset.  He's also been there in good and bad times with over 150 appearances so that deserves some appreciation and respect. 

As stated by many, Mowett is a different type of player and is a more talented all round footballer.  Maybe the £10m more we paid for Livermore colours opinion, but at the moment they are doing a decent job. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on August 29, 2021, 05:25:19 PM
One of his better games defensively yesterday although his passing was still shocking, hoofed it anywhere without looking half of the time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zac on August 29, 2021, 05:34:40 PM
One of his better games defensively yesterday although his passing was still shocking, hoofed it anywhere without looking half of the time.

This is what winds me up the most. On more than one occasion yesterday he just lumped it aimlessly up the field without looking when we could have done with him taking the ball down and maybe picking out a pass. What i will say is he isn't the only one who does this though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on September 19, 2021, 11:23:22 AM
How many more games must we endure Jake Livermore?  He never scores and never creates.  Every game in this division we must be aiming to win, and that involve unlocking packed defences.  At 0-0 the game is in the balance and puts our team on edge.

Previously we've had goal scoring midfielders in this division, think Koumas, Koren, Greening, Gera, Texeira, Pereira etc.  It forces teams to come out at us.

Why can't we use Moloumby, Snodgrass, or the Portuguese kid?

It's the one thing we can change and influence. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on September 19, 2021, 11:54:43 AM
I don't think we have anybody that does the part of the job Livermore does. Yes we might well improve on him, but we are never going to get a 'Livermore' that creates and scores many as well as doing the job he is asked to do. Works ok with Mowatt for me, but the pair of them could do with some more support at times towards the back end of games. Another body in the middle might just set up a goal or help hang on to a lead, but it is horses for courses.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on September 19, 2021, 12:06:16 PM
How many more games must we endure Jake Livermore?  He never scores and never creates.  Every game in this division we must be aiming to win, and that involve unlocking packed defences.  At 0-0 the game is in the balance and puts our team on edge.

Previously we've had goal scoring midfielders in this division, think Koumas, Koren, Greening, Gera, Texeira, Pereira etc.  It forces teams to come out at us.

Why can't we use Moloumby, Snodgrass, or the Portuguese kid?

It's the one thing we can change and influence.

Livermore isn't an attacking midfielder.  Snodgrass is no improvement.  The other two we have to trust the manager and when we have seen glimpses of them they've looked out of their depth.  What we don't need in the middle of the park, under Val's system, is someone who thinks doing Zidane turns in the middle of the pitch is a good idea.  Livermore's job is to reinforce the midfield and scrap for second balls - that's the way Val plays.

Look, imagine we had Pierera in this team instead of Livermore and he spent 80 mins watching the ball sail back and forth over his head.  He'd be ineffective at best.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on September 19, 2021, 12:08:42 PM
Has Molumby made an appearance yet?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 19, 2021, 12:24:39 PM
Has Molumby made an appearance yet?
No, but it's high time that he did, otherwise why did we sign him? The stuttering performances of late mean that we should be looking at some squad rotation. Snodgrass will be leaving at the end of the season, so I think Molumby should be above him in the pecking order.

I remain excited to see what the high-octane combination of Mowatt and Molumby can do; there's every chance that they will complement each other hugely.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on September 19, 2021, 12:29:38 PM
Livermore is awful. Slow, cumbersome and looks so uncomfortable with the ball at his feet. Runs around a lot but squanders possession too often. If Molumby can’t oust him then why on earth was he signed?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on September 19, 2021, 12:46:35 PM
No, but it's high time that he did, otherwise why did we sign him? The stuttering performances of late mean that we should be looking at some squad rotation. Snodgrass will be leaving at the end of the season, so I think Molumby should be above him in the pecking order.

I remain excited to see what the high-octane combination of Mowatt and Molumby can do; there's every chance that they will complement each other hugely.

I agree, feels like we are SLIGHTLY going back to the 'board and Bilic' days but it's now the 'board and Ismael', just signing players for the sake of it and then not playing them.

If we signed him and apparently want him to sign next season on a permanent he needs to be playing or given a chance at the very least.

Snodgrass AND Livermore out at end of season hopefully.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WorcsWBA on September 19, 2021, 01:10:28 PM
I agree, feels like we are SLIGHTLY going back to the 'board and Bilic' days but it's now the 'board and Ismael', just signing players for the sake of it and then not playing them.

If we signed him and apparently want him to sign next season on a permanent he needs to be playing or given a chance at the very least.
It's certainly an odd situation that he's been making international appearances for Ireland this season and yet can't get on the pitch for a Championship side that hasn't won in 3 games and at least one of our central midfielders must need a breather by now.

Molumby's all-action approach is perfect for Valerien's style of play, so it makes even less sense that he won't give him a chance to show what he can do.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on September 19, 2021, 01:12:25 PM
Livermore was MoM yesterday no ifs or buts . Might not have been too difficult but people have been moaning about him for sometime yet third game in a week and he was comfortably better than his teammates yesterday
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on September 19, 2021, 01:14:12 PM
It's certainly an odd situation that he's been making international appearances for Ireland this season and yet can't get on the pitch for a Championship side that hasn't won in 3 games and at least one of our central midfielders must need a breather by now.

Molumby's all-action approach is perfect for Valerien's style of play, so it makes even less sense that he won't give him a chance to show what he can do.
I think he should be playing as well as Livermore or Mowatt not instead of one or other of them
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 19, 2021, 01:15:27 PM
Livermore was MoM yesterday no ifs or buts . Might not have been too difficult but people have been moaning about him for sometime yet third game in a week and he was comfortably better than his teammates yesterday

He was woeful. Could name 7 or 8 better. We had a 3 on 2 break in the 2nd half but as soon as I saw it was Livermore carrying the ball out I knew it would come to nothing. Needless to say he held onto the ball too long then underhit the easy pass.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on September 19, 2021, 03:06:42 PM
Livermore was MoM yesterday no ifs or buts . Might not have been too difficult but people have been moaning about him for sometime yet third game in a week and he was comfortably better than his teammates yesterday

It won't matter - to some if he gives the ball away just once in a match it's "woeful Livermore", where other players can give it away much more cheaply all over the pitch and not a peep.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 19, 2021, 03:37:41 PM
He was woeful. Could name 7 or 8 better. We had a 3 on 2 break in the 2nd half but as soon as I saw it was Livermore carrying the ball out I knew it would come to nothing. Needless to say he held onto the ball too long then underhit the easy pass.
Oh yes Livermore was woeful , but lets keep Hugill in the team. Laughs out loud , obviously a joke. You just can't stand it when one of your ' targets ' is doing OK can you.
Here mate I'll have a go along similar lines.
Let's keep Reach in the team he ay very good but at least he's the best player we have every had from Sheffield Wednesday  ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on September 19, 2021, 03:50:56 PM
He was woeful. Could name 7 or 8 better. We had a 3 on 2 break in the 2nd half but as soon as I saw it was Livermore carrying the ball out I knew it would come to nothing. Needless to say he held onto the ball too long then underhit the easy pass.

So predictable, yet just not true.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on September 19, 2021, 04:55:30 PM
It won't matter - to some if he gives the ball away just once in a match it's "woeful Livermore", where other players can give it away much more cheaply all over the pitch and not a peep.

When has he ever given the ball away “just once”?!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on September 19, 2021, 05:35:10 PM
He was woeful. Could name 7 or 8 better. We had a 3 on 2 break in the 2nd half but as soon as I saw it was Livermore carrying the ball out I knew it would come to nothing. Needless to say he held onto the ball too long then underhit the easy pass.
You could name 7 or 8 better …. But you’d be wrong !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Astle1968 on September 20, 2021, 01:07:09 PM
Not a fan of Livermore in the PL at all, but he's always been somewhere between OK and decent in the Championship in my opinion.

Personally I feel if you think he was awful on Saturday you've probably already made your mind up about his performance before the game starts, and are then watching with that mindset and waiting for him to make an error.

I'd like to see Molumby start ahead of him just to see what he can offer and to freshen it up a little, but as someone who isn't particularly a fan of Livermore's I thought he was fine at the weekend
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 20, 2021, 02:18:36 PM
Not a fan of Livermore in the PL at all, but he's always been somewhere between OK and decent in the Championship in my opinion.

Personally I feel if you think he was awful on Saturday you've probably already made your mind up about his performance before the game starts, and are then watching with that mindset and waiting for him to make an error.

I'd like to see Molumby start ahead of him just to see what he can offer and to freshen it up a little, but as someone who isn't particularly a fan of Livermore's I thought he was fine at the weekend
That sir, is a very fair post. you have expressed your preference for Molumby to have his chance, without resorting to disrespecting Livermore in the way that many do on here.
He has been fine this season so far.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on September 20, 2021, 02:55:23 PM
Watch Preston's first goal back and concentrate on Jake Livermore. Shot from edge of the box, after slow build up play, so where was the defensive midfielder who should be protecting that space and closing down? Well he was five yards behind the play having a stroll putting his hand in the air and shouting at the ref after a period of ball watching, awful positioning and failure to appreciate the danger. Then you watch our highlights of us breaking on Preston the other way with Grant playing Hudgell in and Phillips playing Grady in. Where is Livermore? Nowhere to be seen of course.

He doesn't offer anything in attack and doesn't defend properly either, so what are we left with? Square root of bugger all. The fact is that relegation and failure massively helps poor players like Jake as it gives him an opportunity to play some football for us on a contract he couldn't get elsewhere.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on September 21, 2021, 11:50:34 AM
I'm not trying to defend Jake but it's probably worth remembering what led to that goal by Preston. A god awful, lazy casual pass from Matt Phillips which should have gone to Mowatt so we could play out from there.

It was a shocking ball and Ajayi should hold his head in shame for his lame attempt of a block. He then fell to the ground while holding his head in the hope of a free kick when there was little if any contact.

Both central midfielders were completely cut out of play as a result of Phillips being slack with Mowatt the deeper of the two. At least Jake got a foot on it as he tried to close the Preston player down.

Mowatt also has a chance to close it down and doesn't. Kylle Bartley's attempt to block the shot was hardly convincing either. Collective failure. To single Jake Livermore out for the first goal is beyond harsh. It's also wrong in my very honest opinion.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on September 21, 2021, 11:58:01 AM
I'm not trying to defend Jake but it's probably worth remembering what led to that goal by Preston. A god awful, lazy casual pass from Matt Phillips which should have gone to Mowatt so we could play out from there.

It was a shocking ball and Ajayi should hold his head in shame for his lame attempt of a block. He then fell to the ground while holding his head in the hope of a free kick when there was little if any contact.

Both central midfielders were completely cut out of play as a result of Phillips being slack with Mowatt the deeper of the two. At least Jake got a foot on it as he tried to close the Preston player down.

Mowatt also has a chance to close it down and doesn't. Kylle Bartley's attempt to block the shot was hardly convincing either. Collective failure. To single Jake Livermore out for the first goal is beyond harsh. It's also wrong in my very honest opinion.


Bartley annoyed me here. It was one of those half hearted, barely committed attempts at a block. Contrast that with one Townsend made in the same game or indeed the one that Bartley made in the last minute at Wolves last season. If he puts the same intensity into the block on Saturday Preston dont score.

It's not putting in that extra 5%. I absolutely guarantee if that's O'Shea or Clarke they dont score that goal.

Yes there were other errors in the lead up but the lack of  desire to defend the goal annoyed me most
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on September 21, 2021, 12:12:21 PM
I'm not trying to defend Jake but it's probably worth remembering what led to that goal by Preston. A god awful, lazy casual pass from Matt Phillips which should have gone to Mowatt so we could play out from there.

It was a shocking ball and Ajayi should hold his head in shame for his lame attempt of a block. He then fell to the ground while holding his head in the hope of a free kick when there was little if any contact.

Both central midfielders were completely cut out of play as a result of Phillips being slack with Mowatt the deeper of the two. At least Jake got a foot on it as he tried to close the Preston player down.

Mowatt also has a chance to close it down and doesn't. Kylle Bartley's attempt to block the shot was hardly convincing either. Collective failure. To single Jake Livermore out for the first goal is beyond harsh. It's also wrong in my very honest opinion.
Phillips at fault there all day long, then Ajayi bottled what was, to be fair, a high challenge, no direct blame on Livermore.

A few minutes later however, following a tremendous challenge by Townsend, Livermore and Ajayi (AGAIN) almost conspired to set up a second by faffing about on the edge of our box.

Livermore's just not good enough, defensively, to make up for his shortcomings going forward, so I would like to see us try an alternative.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on September 21, 2021, 12:17:37 PM
Quote from: seteefeet

A few minutes later however, following a tremendous challenge by Townsend, Livermore and Ajayi (AGAIN) almost conspired to set up a second by faffing about on the edge of our box.


They did yeah. Ajayi again was awful. Does he put cloggs on his feet? The ball just seems to go anywhere when he strikes it and his and Bartley's headers are the same. They are both about 6'5" and cant control a header, most of our attacks break down before they start.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheJacko2000 on September 21, 2021, 12:19:49 PM
Beyond harsh to blame Livermore for the Preston goal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on September 21, 2021, 12:23:02 PM
Beyond harsh to blame Livermore for the Preston goal.

Falls to floor, gets up, rings Accident and Emergency for an ambulance  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on September 21, 2021, 12:45:08 PM
Beyond harsh to blame Livermore for the Preston goal.

No-one has done.  Re-read my post. It highlights his inferiority off and on the ball.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Sted1990 on September 28, 2021, 11:20:23 AM
His performance on Friday night was outstanding! its been a long time coming but more of the same please.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on September 28, 2021, 12:59:53 PM
His performance on Friday night was outstanding! its been a long time coming but more of the same please.

It absolutely was. Led by example all game, some tremendous tackles and decent passes too. I think he has started the season well actually. This is his level, not the premier league but he is more than good enough for where we currently find ourselves.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on September 28, 2021, 01:02:05 PM
I've always though of Livermore as a poor man's Jorden Henderson.
But I do admire his mental strength after a very difficult personal problems
Hes been playing pretty well this season and he does look like he's been training hard, fit and has bought into Vals methods
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on September 28, 2021, 01:08:16 PM
Not the best by any means but you always get a full blloded performance from him.
Struggles technically and with the basic sometimes.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on September 28, 2021, 01:38:43 PM
Credit where it’s due - Friday was a cracking performance, perhaps Molumby and Snodgrass being around is boosting performances.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on September 28, 2021, 01:51:12 PM
Whilst I'll agree it wasn't his worst game, I think outstanding is pushing it. His weekly contribution hovers around average so anything, even slightly above that, looks good. IMO.
I still think he holds us back in terms of transition and creativity and we would be easier on the eye with someone who can pass as well as run around a lot, pointing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WoysWunderful on September 28, 2021, 02:49:14 PM
I thought he had a decent game, but a few people round me seemed to be seeing a completley differnt game, might be down ton confirmation bias. I remember he snuffed out an attack second half, passed it mowatt who played on a invisible man, and that was jakes fault somehow?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on September 28, 2021, 03:11:38 PM
I thought he had a decent game, but a few people round me seemed to be seeing a completley differnt game, might be down ton confirmation bias. I remember he snuffed out an attack second half, passed it mowatt who played on a invisible man, and that was jakes fault somehow?
Mowatt is not perfect by any means, but, he does give us something going forward, Jake doesn't. nor does he particularly protect the defence.
When team plays long, we need midfielders who can pick a pass at the right time, which Mowatt can, Jake can't. Against Milwall we had 4 v 2 going forward and Jake has misplaced the crucial, relatively simple, pass, I also think it happened in another game since but not 100%.

This is not an agenda, I just think a better ball player would help negate the oppositions negative tactics.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on September 28, 2021, 03:25:57 PM
I thought he had a decent game, but a few people round me seemed to be seeing a completley differnt game, might be down ton confirmation bias. I remember he snuffed out an attack second half, passed it mowatt who played on a invisible man, and that was jakes fault somehow?

He also created the headed chance for Reach by playing a lovely little ball over the top.  If Pierera had played it people would be raving about it.  He might not be amazing but he would get into most of this divisions midfield.  I think the criticisms are quite often over the top - if he misplaces a single pass it's picked up on, but other players can misplace more and it's just one of those things.

No idea how some think we'd have Mowatt AND Livermore in forward positions when the opposition play it long.  It would mean nobody in the middle helping the defence out or picking up the second ball from the defensive header.  Quite often Livermore has been the one to get back and help cover, as well as put crucial tackles in.  Against QPR there was a couple of times where he filled in at CH because we'd been caught with too many up field.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on September 28, 2021, 04:02:09 PM
He also created the headed chance for Reach by playing a lovely little ball over the top.  If Pierera had played it people would be raving about it.  He might not be amazing but he would get into most of this divisions midfield.  I think the criticisms are quite often over the top - if he misplaces a single pass it's picked up on, but other players can misplace more and it's just one of those things.

No idea how some think we'd have Mowatt AND Livermore in forward positions when the opposition play it long.  It would mean nobody in the middle helping the defence out or picking up the second ball from the defensive header.  Quite often Livermore has been the one to get back and help cover, as well as put crucial tackles in.  Against QPR there was a couple of times where he filled in at CH because we'd been caught with too many up field.
It doesn't have to be both, if we had two players equally comfortable passing the ball, it could be either or. As it is, if it's Jake, it, more often than not comes to nothing a-la Millwall.

I'm not picking on him for every misplaced pass by any means, all players do that, it's more a tactical issue for me in that his limitations hold us back.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on September 28, 2021, 07:28:33 PM
One of the highlights against QPR was Jake smashing a shot from 25 yards out that was going 10 yards wide into Hugill with his right foot and then following that up by dragging a second shot on his left foot from 15 yards out 5 yards wide. 30 seconds that summed up for me his significant limitations.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 01, 2021, 09:28:46 PM
Never been in it tonight.  And that in a nutshell is Jake Livermore v higher quality opponents.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on October 01, 2021, 09:55:03 PM
Best chance for us tonight and he puts in his usual effort.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on October 01, 2021, 09:55:19 PM
Is it bad that I’m crossing m fingers for his next yellow card so he gets the 1 match ban? He is t playing badly, but he hinders us going forward. We need to bring in Molumby/Snodgrass/Castro, just somebody who might add more spark going forward.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 01, 2021, 09:56:05 PM
Best chance for us tonight and he puts in his usual effort.

I'm glad you brought this up, I'm sick of him failing to even hit the target with his shots. Terrible footballer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on October 01, 2021, 09:58:34 PM
I’m not one with a vendetta against Livermore like some, but he was poor tonight. Then again the tactics deployed dont play to a midfield in any case.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 01, 2021, 10:01:57 PM
I’m not one with a vendetta against Livermore like some, but he was poor tonight. Then again the tactics deployed dont play to a midfield in any case.

Watching a poor footballer consistently put in poor performances and fail to pass or shoot with any quality and then moaning about on this forum isn't having a vendetta. It's just recognising that most of the time that he is massive disappointment and part of the problem not the solution.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 01, 2021, 10:05:29 PM
Is it bad that I’m crossing m fingers for his next yellow card so he gets the 1 match ban? He is t playing badly, but he hinders us going forward. We need to bring in Molumby/Snodgrass/Castro, just somebody who might add more spark going forward.

Snodgrass is too slow to play in the midfield with our tactics.
Molumby did nothing when he came on except hit a good chance into row z.
Castro is just awful and so far away from what our CM 2 need to do.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 01, 2021, 10:07:51 PM
Snodgrass is too slow to play in the midfield with our tactics.
Molumby did nothing when he came on except hit a good chance into row z.
Castro is just awful and so far away from what our CM 2 need to do.

10 minutes on the pitch and that shot was on his left foot so I'm not going to castigate him for that. If he can trap the ball, pass it and run a bit then he's an upgrade.

As for Castro, I've not seen him kick a ball, so it's a bit early to right him off.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on October 01, 2021, 10:09:25 PM
Watching a poor footballer consistently put in poor performances and fail to pass or shoot with any quality and then moaning about on this forum isn't having a vendetta. It's just recognising that most of the time that he is massive disappointment and part of the problem not the solution.

When it’s quite clear that a player has had a good game yet particular posters still dig out that player it’s 100% a vendetta. It’s well known on this forum.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 01, 2021, 10:09:48 PM
Watching a poor footballer consistently put in poor performances and fail to pass or shoot with any quality and then moaning about on this forum isn't having a vendetta. It's just recognising that most of the time that he is massive disappointment and part of the problem not the solution.

It's a vendetta when you constantly criticise a player for making certain mistakes but excuse other players from doing the same.

I recall 2 particularly poor bits from Livermore tonight, he skied a clearance in midfield straight up in the air, and he badly misplaced a forward pass. The rest of the game he was no worse (or better) than any of the other players.  Regardless of how he plays you stick the knife in.

Mowatt made more errors than Livermore, for example, he headed it straight up in the air while in our box, he also mishit several passes, his shooting was even worse than Livermore's.

Hugill was the worst player on the pitch tonight by some distance.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 01, 2021, 10:14:29 PM
Livermore was taken to the cleaners tonight by Stoke's superior players in the middle.  Essentially that's what decided the game, we were overrun 2nd half, we looked slow and disjointed.

Central midfield is the biggest problem in the WBA team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 01, 2021, 10:15:19 PM
When it’s quite clear that a player has had a good game yet particular posters still dig out that player it’s 100% a vendetta. It’s well known on this forum.

I didn't see the QPR game where he apparently played well or our match at Preston in which he apparently was average. Every other game I seen this season and he has been somewhere between alright, a little annoying to infuriating. One good game in ten matches isn't up to scratch.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 01, 2021, 10:17:34 PM
It's a vendetta when you constantly criticise a player for making certain mistakes but excuse other players from doing the same.

I recall 2 particularly poor bits from Livermore tonight, he skied a clearance in midfield straight up in the air, and he badly misplaced a forward pass. The rest of the game he was no worse (or better) than any of the other players.  Regardless of how he plays you stick the knife in.

Mowatt made more errors than Livermore, for example, he headed it straight up in the air while in our box, he also mishit several passes, his shooting was even worse than Livermore's.

Hugill was the worst player on the pitch tonight by some distance.

If you read the post-match thread it is full of comments from me criticising Johnstone, Townsend and Hugill along with the team in general without any mention of Livermore. Anyone suggesting posters on here have an agenda should name the said poster, or keep their mud-slinging to themselves.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Aztech on October 01, 2021, 10:18:24 PM
I didn't see the QPR game where he apparently played well or our match at Preston in which he apparently was average. Every other game I seen this season and he has been somewhere between alright, a little annoying to infuriating. One good game in ten matches isn't up to scratch.

I’m sure the manager and coaching staff will agree with your comments and we won’t see Livermore anywhere near the squad for the foreseeable future.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 01, 2021, 10:21:53 PM
I’m sure the manager and coaching staff will agree with your comments and we won’t see Livermore anywhere near the squad for the foreseeable future.

Sarcasm at its finest. I expect him to be first choice for the foreseeable future unless results really dip and/or Molumby takes his chance once the inevitable suspension kicks in.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 01, 2021, 10:30:40 PM
Quote me as having the vendetta if you want, I'm calling what I see.  Deep down everyone knows Livermore is only just about Championship standard.  11 games in, 0 assists and 0 goals for a team in an automatic promotion spot.

Compare that with the likes of Koren, Koumas, Texeira, Greening, Gera, Dorrans, Morrison, McInnes etc.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 01, 2021, 10:32:32 PM
Livermore was taken to the cleaners tonight by Stoke's superior players in the middle.  Essentially that's what decided the game, we were overrun 2nd half, we looked slow and disjointed.

Central midfield is the biggest problem in the WBA team.

Disagree, our biggest problem is the defence.  The argument against our midfield is that against 3 decent midfielders even 2 good players will struggle.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on October 01, 2021, 10:32:42 PM
Livermore was taken to the cleaners tonight by Stoke's superior players in the middle.  Essentially that's what decided the game, we were overrun 2nd half, we looked slow and disjointed.

Central midfield is the biggest problem in the WBA team.

We’ve seen enough of Livermore to know what he’s good at and what he’s not good at. But current tactics mean that he watches the ball sail over him, has to close down, and if he does get the ball then he has a split second to play a pass because it’s all about playing it forward quickly. What is the role of our midfield at the moment - I don’t think it’s clear.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on October 01, 2021, 10:38:30 PM
Quote me as having the vendetta if you want, I'm calling what I see.  Deep down everyone knows Livermore is only just about Championship standard.  11 games in, 0 assists and 0 goals for a team in an automatic promotion spot.

Compare that with the likes of Koren, Koumas, Texeira, Greening, Gera, Dorrans, Morrison, McInnes etc.

What are you talking about? Why are you comparing a current player to a previous 8 players?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 01, 2021, 10:39:40 PM
Quote me as having the vendetta if you want, I'm calling what I see.  Deep down everyone knows Livermore is only just about Championship standard.  11 games in, 0 assists and 0 goals for a team in an automatic promotion spot.

Compare that with the likes of Koren, Koumas, Texeira, Greening, Gera, Dorrans, Morrison, McInnes etc.

He doesn't play anywhere near the kind of midfield roll as those players though! His main roll is mopping up and picking up the second ball from the defence.  All of those, except maybe McInnes, would not be able to do the job Livermore is asked to do.

He still has his moments but it's more about getting the ball
ack and giving it Phillips, Mowatt, Diangana, Robinson, Reach, Furlong to get forward.  Against QPR it was Livermore who won the ball back high up the pitch that started the winning goal.  He slid Furlong in tonight who crossed and Robinson had 2 chances from, he then cushioned a header back to Robinson for a 3rd chance.  It's more like saying why didn't Yacob have the goal scoring and assist rate of Koumas.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 01, 2021, 10:40:38 PM
Disagree, our biggest problem is the defence.  The argument against our midfield is that against 3 decent midfielders even 2 good players will struggle.

That's a defence that so far has the best goals against record since 02/03 under Megson.

You call Joe Allen decent, lol.  He played multiple times for Swansea & Liverpool.  Nick Powell was once of Man Utd.  Vrancic has played in Norwich promotion winning teams.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 01, 2021, 10:41:09 PM
What are you talking about? Why are you comparing a current player to a previous 8 players?

Apparently Livermore should have similar assist and goal rates as every recent creative midfielder we've had.  Just surprised he missed Pierera off.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: frazzle on October 01, 2021, 10:41:52 PM
Quote me as having the vendetta if you want, I'm calling what I see.  Deep down everyone knows Livermore is only just about Championship standard.  11 games in, 0 assists and 0 goals for a team in an automatic promotion spot.

Compare that with the likes of Koren, Koumas, Texeira, Greening, Gera, Dorrans, Morrison, McInnes etc.

I don’t think anyone thinks you have a vendetta against Livermore. Don’t think that was suggested anywhere.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 01, 2021, 10:43:43 PM
That's a defence that so far has the best goals against record since 02/03 under Megson.

You call Joe Allen decent, lol.  He played multiple times for Swansea & Liverpool.  Nick Powell was once of Man Utd.  Vrancic has played in Norwich promotion winning teams.

And you're surprised when Mowatt and Livermore - 2 (TWO) players are overrun by 3?

Our defence are a nightmare regardless of what you think to the Goals Against column.  I lost count how many times it was panic stations when Bartley and Ajayi get turned and are running back to our goal or when they head it straight out play, or countless other things they struggle with.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 01, 2021, 10:45:20 PM
He doesn't play anywhere near the kind of midfield roll as those players though! His main roll is mopping up and picking up the second ball from the defence.  All of those, except maybe McInnes, would not be able to do the job Livermore is asked to do.

He still has his moments but it's more about getting the ball
ack and giving it Phillips, Mowatt, Diangana, Robinson, Reach, Furlong to get forward.  Against QPR it was Livermore who won the ball back high up the pitch that started the winning goal.  He slid Furlong in tonight who crossed and Robinson had 2 chances from, he then cushioned a header back to Robinson for a 3rd chance.  It's more like saying why didn't Yacob have the goal scoring and assist rate of Koumas.

I'm sorry but I just don't get it with Livermore.  I see "a muck and nettles" type of player with little quality, honest as the day is long, tremendous effort, team man.  And he can be effective at this level, just.

I get flashbacks to Arsenal, Leeds and Villa over Xmas and it was just painful watching out midfield. So out of our depth it was truly embarrassing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 01, 2021, 10:51:42 PM
Apparently Livermore should have similar assist and goal rates as every recent creative midfielder we've had.  Just surprised he missed Pierera off.

I'd settle for a shot on target at some point this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BAGGIE5 on October 01, 2021, 10:54:28 PM
Jake frustrations come from what he doesn’t do well. People almost think thats basics of being a midfielder. Just pass it to your player. He fluffs easy passes sometimes.

He does the pressing and breaking up really well. But what’s the point of this when you give straight back to opponents.

Can’t ever question his work rate or commitment.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on October 01, 2021, 11:17:14 PM
Problem is that we have only two midfielders his lack of technical ability,his lack of pace, his lack of distribution and his lack of a goal threat get highlighted more.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on October 02, 2021, 09:51:23 AM
I think he has been okay over the last 4 or 5 games, i generally think he's poor. I don't know a lot about Molumby but I would like to see him in for Jake alongside Alex Mowatt just to get a look. I have no worries if Livermore stays in but it'd be good to know if Molumby's a better option.

He works very hard, but he's very basic and I'd love to see how good our other options are. I'm not sure it'll happen.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on October 02, 2021, 10:02:01 AM
Livermore is poor. The problem I suspect we have, is we don’t have anyone better so there’s nothing we can do in the short term.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on October 02, 2021, 10:02:24 AM
We were outnumbered in midfield last night and Mowatt had a pretty anonymous game. Livermore did at least battle away, yes needed more quality on occasions but he was at least a presence in there.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on October 02, 2021, 10:31:31 AM
We were outnumbered in midfield last night and Mowatt had a pretty anonymous game. Livermore did at least battle away, yes needed more quality on occasions but he was at least a presence in there.
you could say the same for corner flag which usually does more than Livermore
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 02, 2021, 11:44:00 AM
you could say the same for corner flag which usually does more than Livermore
That's what I like , a little bit of constructive critisism.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on October 02, 2021, 11:48:42 AM
I think he has been okay over the last 4 or 5 games, i generally think he's poor. I don't know a lot about Molumby but I would like to see him in for Jake alongside Alex Mowatt just to get a look. I have no worries if Livermore stays in but it'd be good to know if Molumby's a better option.

He works very hard, but he's very basic and I'd love to see how good our other options are. I'm not sure it'll happen.

The only way is up for Molumby you'd have to hope. He's been hopeless so far but on very limitted evidence.

Jake is Jake you get what you get he's not going to progress at his age. Generally he's OK at this level, falls well short in the Premier League.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on October 02, 2021, 12:14:45 PM
The only way is up for Molumby you'd have to hope. He's been hopeless so far but on very limitted evidence.

Jake is Jake you get what you get he's not going to progress at his age. Generally he's OK at this level, falls well short in the Premier League.

Absolutely. Molumby cannot be judged on a few minutes in a couple of games, but no doubt some have made up their minds already. Jake's errors  seem to be highlighted whilst the odd bit of good play gets overlooked he is, for me, generally ok, not good but ok at this level as Atomic says. However more performances from the team like last nights and Premier League is not going to be something we need worry about. It was truly abysmal and whilst Hugill was not too much worse than the rest, he was indeed one of the worst whilst  I thought Livermore was one of the better ones.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 02, 2021, 12:21:03 PM
Livermore is on 4 bookings now so one more yellow ijnthe next 8 games or so and he is suspended. Would like to see Molumby get a full 90 minutes. Impossible to judge him on his 2 cameos to date.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on October 02, 2021, 01:09:44 PM
you could say the same for corner flag which usually does more than Livermore

I'm sorry but that's very harsh on Jake. Corner flags outnumber him by four to one in every game. Poor lad can't be expected to cover all four corners of the pitch at the same time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on October 02, 2021, 01:12:01 PM
I'm sorry but that's very harsh on Jake. Corner flags outnumber him by four to one in every game. Poor lad can't be expected to cover all four corners of the pitch at the same time.
got me there mate 👏
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 04, 2021, 05:56:35 PM
I'm sorry but I just don't get it with Livermore.  I see "a muck and nettles" type of player with little quality, honest as the day is long, tremendous effort, team man.  And he can be effective at this level, just.

I get flashbacks to Arsenal, Leeds and Villa over Xmas and it was just painful watching out midfield. So out of our depth it was truly embarrassing.

you do realise that Livermore only featured in 1 of those games (for 37 minutes against Villa before being sent off)? Our poor midfield in those games had nothing to do with Jake Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 04, 2021, 06:31:11 PM
you do realise that Livermore only featured in 1 of those games (for 37 minutes against Villa before being sent off)? Our poor midfield in those games had nothing to do with Jake Livermore.

Trust you to come out with some facts Hull, you have spoilt a good rant there😂
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 04, 2021, 06:45:47 PM
you do realise that Livermore only featured in 1 of those games (for 37 minutes against Villa before being sent off)? Our poor midfield in those games had nothing to do with Jake Livermore.

I recognised this but why spoil a good conspiracy theory 8)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 04, 2021, 06:51:12 PM
Disagree, our biggest problem is the defence.  The argument against our midfield is that against 3 decent midfielders even 2 good players will struggle.
Nail on the head, if the oppo just lamp it over midfield then it doesn’t matter how good / bad midfield is, if the press works and you win the ball back in their final 3rd it doesn’t matter how good the defensive midfield is BUT against a team prepared to take us on at football with 3 versus our 2 in midfield we are bang in trouble, that is where the manger has to recognise the issue and resolve it. Yes JL has limitations but the Stoke game was not down to him. VI got it wrong and failed to react, thatx the real issue
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 04, 2021, 09:38:51 PM
you do realise that Livermore only featured in 1 of those games (for 37 minutes against Villa before being sent off)? Our poor midfield in those games had nothing to do with Jake Livermore.

Fair do's you are correct, hats off.  I will point out Livermore was utterly abysmal for those 37 mins, as we got absolutely trounced.

Livermore was nowhere to be seen in Albion's greatest victory since 30 December 1978, I will say.

The reality is with Mowatt now out for a period, the pressure is massively on Jake to deliver.  He cost £11m, has international and premier league experience.  We cannot afford to collapse in this pre Xmas stretch.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 04, 2021, 10:42:17 PM
Fair do's you are correct, hats off.  I will point out Livermore was utterly abysmal for those 37 mins, as we got absolutely trounced.

Livermore was nowhere to be seen in Albion's greatest victory since 30 December 1978, I will say.

The reality is with Mowatt now out for a period, the pressure is massively on Jake to deliver.  He cost £11m, has international and premier league experience.  We cannot afford to collapse in this pre Xmas stretch.

Seriously, I would give up if I were you.....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 04, 2021, 11:08:25 PM
Seriously, I would give up if I were you.....

The boys from B6 walked through us, made us look like mugs, you forgot?  Then to compound matters we were reduced to 10!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 05, 2021, 12:33:59 AM
Definitely no vendettas though!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 05, 2021, 05:33:51 AM
Definitely no vendettas though!

Call it as me having a vendetta against Jake Livermore if you want?  If we can manage this period of games without Mowatt with a good pts haul then JL can take all the plaudits.

However, multiple posters criticise Sam Johnstone, so I think people have their vendetta against the goalkeeper!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 05, 2021, 07:12:04 AM
The boys from B6 walked through us, made us look like mugs, you forgot?  Then to compound matters we were reduced to 10!

i have not forgotten at all, last year many teams walked through us and made us look like mugs, so I don't see how that is Jakes fault - there are 11 players on the pitch.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 05, 2021, 07:26:56 AM
I find it laughable pathetic that against a scenerio of a possible lengthy absence of Mowatt, that already some people are suggesting combinations of Reach/ Molumby / Phillips for our midfield and still excluding Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 05, 2021, 07:42:56 AM
I find it laughable pathetic that against a scenerio of a possible lengthy absence of Mowatt, that already some people are suggesting combinations of Reach/ Molumby / Phillips for our midfield and still excluding Jake.

Its both 68, I don't get it either.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on October 05, 2021, 09:15:17 AM
I think it perfectly reasonable to be concerned by the Mowatt situation. He is by far the stronger of the two, he's a better passer, tackler, shooter and header, he also reads the game better so is going to be a massive loss and, if we are relying on Jake to pick up that baton, it just won't work. That's why the key to it is who comes in. VI needs to look at Jake's strengths and weaknesses and put someone alongside him to give us the most stability.
It is not beyond the realms of possibility though that the answer to losing Mowatt, would be to change the midfield completely, but, given our squad limitations, I admit that that is unlikely.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on October 05, 2021, 09:24:40 AM
I find it laughable pathetic that against a scenerio of a possible lengthy absence of Mowatt, that already some people are suggesting combinations of Reach/ Molumby / Phillips for our midfield and still excluding Jake.

The only posts I’ve seen about a Reach / Molumby partnership are talking about the situation when Livermore picks up his 5th yellow and is not available.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 05, 2021, 10:18:01 AM
Call it as me having a vendetta against Jake Livermore if you want?  If we can manage this period of games without Mowatt with a good pts haul then JL can take all the plaudits.

However, multiple posters criticise Sam Johnstone, so I think people have their vendetta against the goalkeeper!

Why would he take all the plaudits? If he deserves them then yes he can take plaudits but it's a team game.
 If we get a good points haul from the  games Mowatt misses it will most likely be because of team performance...same if we don't pick up many points.

Some posters do seem to have a vendetta against Johnstone you are right.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 05, 2021, 02:24:27 PM
Why would he take all the plaudits? If he deserves them then yes he can take plaudits but it's a team game.
 If we get a good points haul from the  games Mowatt misses it will most likely be because of team performance...same if we don't pick up many points.

Some posters do seem to have a vendetta against Johnstone you are right.

The issue is if we go back to last season, then Sawyers and Livermore were bombed out the team by Allardyce, only used in half of EPL games. 

Other (much maligned) players were retained for longer playing time, examples Johnstone (37 games), Furlong (35), Phillips (33), Ajayi (33), Bartley (30), Townsend (25) etc.

Clearly, after utilising Yokuslu, AMN & Snodgrass, there was an upswing in performances/results.  The Manager highlighted centre-midfield as the key problem area. 

Sawyers has gone (racism stuff impacted) but Livermore is hanging on. 

Onto this season, firstly Hugill & secondly Livermore have done nothing in goal scoring/contribution and that's putting huge pressure on the wingers & centre backs from set pieces.

Can we continue the same pts average without Mowatt?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 05, 2021, 06:45:12 PM
Probably not, but that’s not Livermore’s fault is it? He is good enough at this level without doubt. Not for the premier but we are not in that division.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 24, 2021, 09:14:11 AM
The recent evidence shows that Livermore should not be used as a starter in the league ever again, unless there is a suspension/injury crisis.

1) at the start of the season there was a need for Molumby to integrate into the WBA set up and get accommodation in the area etc.
2) Snodgrass has been injured/not fully fit for several weeks.
3) Livermore is ranked 4th in ability in a list including Mowatt, Molumby, Snodgrass.
4) Livermore is not fit enough to play this PRESSING style for 90 mins, he is only good for 60 mins before tiring.  He has never been a good athlete.
5) Livermore has been the critical figure in these complaints over style of play.  He lacks quality.

The best scenario is to give him a free transfer, regardless of Promotion.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 24, 2021, 03:43:14 PM
The recent evidence shows that Livermore should not be used as a starter in the league ever again, unless there is a suspension/injury crisis.

1) at the start of the season there was a need for Molumby to integrate into the WBA set up and get accommodation in the area etc.
2) Snodgrass has been injured/not fully fit for several weeks.
3) Livermore is ranked 4th in ability in a list including Mowatt, Molumby, Snodgrass.
4) Livermore is not fit enough to play this PRESSING style for 90 mins, he is only good for 60 mins before tiring.  He has never been a good athlete.
5) Livermore has been the critical figure in these complaints over style of play.  He lacks quality.

The best scenario is to give him a free transfer, regardless of Promotion.

I am just not sure what it is that fires this vendetta you have against Livermore. I enjoyed the performance yesterday but would also point out that in the previous 2 games we had played, Jake was a candidate for man of the match. To suggest he tires after 60 minutes is simply not true either. It’s good that we now have options for the midfield roles but Jake is very much one of them. Don’t believe me? Let’s see what the gaffer thinks.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on October 24, 2021, 04:10:42 PM
I am just not sure what it is that fires this vendetta you have against Livermore. I enjoyed the performance yesterday but would also point out that in the previous 2 games we had played, Jake was a candidate for man of the match. To suggest he tires after 60 minutes is simply not true either. It’s good that we now have options for the midfield roles but Jake is very much one of them. Don’t believe me? Let’s see what the gaffer thinks.
I agree with Greg. No vendetta, I just think he inhibits us too much going forward, yet offers nothing defensively.
You also make a point about him being close to MoM but that only happens when we play poorly. He only looks good when we are bad.
Yesterday we looked better all over the park, not just in midfield. The defence was better, as was the forward line.
I really like Mowatt but, after yesterday, he too should have to win back his place. Molumby and Snodgrass were that good.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 24, 2021, 04:15:59 PM
I think the incumbents should keep their places, but if they drop off at all they know JL and Mowett are waiting to step in.
In truth there are not many chumps sides who could claim similar strength.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 24, 2021, 04:18:11 PM
I actually thought Snodgrass didn't offer that much.  Tidy on the ball but if we revert back to plan A he would be seriously exposed due to his lack of pace - Molumby did all his running for him.  Even Livermore would have come out of that game with credit as Bristol were so poor in the middle.

There's a world of difference if the ball is being moved from defence to midfield to forwards like we did yesterday and the previous games where it was defence straight to forwards and expect your MF to sprint to keep up, then expect them to sprint to help the defence when it comes back.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 24, 2021, 04:19:58 PM
I actually thought Snodgrass didn't offer that much.  Tidy on the ball but if we revert back to plan A he would be seriously exposed due to his lack of pace - Molumby did all his running for him.  Even Livermore would have come out of that game with credit as Bristol were so poor in the middle.

There's a world of difference if the ball is being moved from defence to midfield to forwards like we did yesterday and the previous games where it was defence straight to forwards and expect your MF to sprint to keep up, then expect them to sprint to help the defence when it comes back.

That's why they had a good balance/chemistry. They understood what each other could and not could do. I do feel that due to Fulhams very athletic squad however they would get over run next Saturday though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 24, 2021, 04:23:50 PM
That's why they had a good balance/chemistry. They understood what each other could and not could do. I do feel that due to Fulhams very athletic squad however they would get over run next Saturday though.

Yeah, Fulham will be tough and if we are all fully fit ( and don't switch to 3 in the middle), I'd go with Molumby and Mowatt as my first choice.  Molumby has shown how we need legs in the middle and Mowatt offers more than Livermore.  I'd go Livermore ahead of Snodgrass though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 24, 2021, 04:25:11 PM
Yeah, Fulham will be tough and if we are all fully fit ( and don't switch to 3 in the middle), I'd go with Molumby and Mowatt as my first choice.  Molumby has shown how we need legs in the middle and Mowatt offers more than Livermore.  I'd go Livermore ahead of Snodgrass though.

I'd agree with the first choice pairing of Mowatt and Moloumby for sure. I can't see us putting 3 in the middle so i'd stick with those 2 who can run and play for the 90 minutes.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 27, 2021, 10:01:09 AM
I wonder what the dynamic is between VI and Jake, it appears that Mowatt is very much VI's number 1 man. Could Jake (the club captain) resent this?

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 27, 2021, 10:08:48 AM
Resent it?

Promotion is on the line.  Its all about picking the best players for the job.

Sawyers and HRK exited last summer, Livermore could've had no complaints if that was him also.

Solskjaer has got himself into a terrible tangle at Man Utd pandering to ego's.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 27, 2021, 10:12:41 AM
I wonder what the dynamic is between VI and Jake, it appears that Mowatt is very much VI's number 1 man. Could Jake (the club captain) resent this?
Jake has given his all this season. If anything he may resent the fact that Phillips and Furlong have been given extended contracts, and he has not,but he is too professional to let that show on the pitch.
Great pro, much maligned on this forum.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WoysWunderful on October 27, 2021, 10:38:40 AM
Jake has given his all this season. If anything he may resent the fact that Phillips and Furlong have been given extended contracts, and he has not,but he is too professional to let that show on the pitch.
Great pro, much maligned on this forum.


He isnt the best, but i feel he allways tries his best. I imagine when hes gone he will be praised (ala brunt)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 27, 2021, 10:40:32 AM
I was just asking for thoughts, i guess I got them   :-[
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 27, 2021, 10:45:38 AM
Livermore has no right to resent any other player being offered a new contract while he hasn't. He's a professional and he's on 20k a week inthe EFL.

I could understand general anxiousness about his future though. He's coming to the end of his career and hopefully this is his last year with us regardless. Saying that he always gives his all, good or bad. If he moves on i would wish him the best for the future and hope he finds a new club quickly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 27, 2021, 10:59:36 AM
Livermore has no right to resent any other player being offered a new contract while he hasn't. He's a professional and he's on 20k a week inthe EFL.

I could understand general anxiousness about his future though. He's coming to the end of his career and hopefully this is his last year with us regardless. Saying that he always gives his all, good or bad. If he moves on i would wish him the best for the future and hope he finds a new club quickly.

I suspect he will be looking for one last pay day soon, (contract up June 20222) Anyone got Denise Coates' phone number?  Good luck to him if he can get a nice fat cheque from someone, or would be be in the Mozza / brunt coaching fraternity?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 27, 2021, 11:13:08 AM
I wonder what the dynamic is between VI and Jake, it appears that Mowatt is very much VI's number 1 man. Could Jake (the club captain) resent this?

I'm not sure why you think Mowatt is Val's #1? I think Mowatt and Livermore are his preferred midfield 2.
I fully expect Livermore to be back in the 11 on Saturday.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on October 27, 2021, 11:22:06 AM
I suspect he will be looking for one last pay day soon, (contract up June 20222)

You mean we've got to put up with him another 18,000 years?

Flippin heck  :o ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on October 27, 2021, 11:44:47 AM
I don't think there are many who question his commitment, it's his ability that is contested. He tries hard and gives his all but, technically we need an upgrade and have done for years. IMO. Would never wish him ill though.

Sean Flynn was a committed trier but I wouldn't want him in our midfield either.

Molumby showed on Saturday that you can work hard and be technically good. Not saying that one game makes him a world beater but he certainly deserves to keep his place.
Snodgrass also showed that it's not all about legs and pace, a footballing brain can compensate for that.
I think bringing Jake back would set us back, without a doubt.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 27, 2021, 11:49:31 AM
I suspect he will be looking for one last pay day soon, (contract up June 20222) Anyone got Denise Coates' phone number?  Good luck to him if he can get a nice fat cheque from someone, or would be be in the Mozza / brunt coaching fraternity?

Yeah that's whylat I mean, he's probably woried about his future which is understandable but it has no relationship to the club giving out contracts to other players.

He will be lucky to get 20k PW wherever he goes next anyway
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on October 27, 2021, 11:49:47 AM
You mean we've got to put up with him another 18,000 years?

Flippin heck  :o ;D

Touche !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on October 27, 2021, 11:53:53 AM
I'm not sure why you think Mowatt is Val's #1? ........

The players refer to VI as Mowatt's dad  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 27, 2021, 12:09:19 PM
I don't think there are many who question his commitment, it's his ability that is contested. He tries hard and gives his all but, technically we need an upgrade and have done for years. IMO. Would never wish him ill though.

Sean Flynn was a committed trier but I wouldn't want him in our midfield either.

Molumby showed on Saturday that you can work hard and be technically good. Not saying that one game makes him a world beater but he certainly deserves to keep his place.
Snodgrass also showed that it's not all about legs and pace, a footballing brain can compensate for that.
I think bringing Jake back would set us back, without a doubt.

This.

I have never criticised JL for commitment.  In fact you are absolutely guaranteed 100% from his every single match.

What I do question is his quality?  As long as a player is committed and focused then ability will override effort.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbako on October 27, 2021, 02:27:36 PM
I don't think there are many who question his commitment, it's his ability that is contested. He tries hard and gives his all but, technically we need an upgrade and have done for years. IMO. Would never wish him ill though.

Sean Flynn was a committed trier but I wouldn't want him in our midfield either.

Molumby showed on Saturday that you can work hard and be technically good. Not saying that one game makes him a world beater but he certainly deserves to keep his place.
Snodgrass also showed that it's not all about legs and pace, a footballing brain can compensate for that.
I think bringing Jake back would set us back, without a doubt.

Top post. Saved me a few minutes typing something similar.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on October 27, 2021, 04:19:33 PM
I don't think there are many who question his commitment, it's his ability that is contested. He tries hard and gives his all but, technically we need an upgrade and have done for years. IMO. Would never wish him ill though.

Sean Flynn was a committed trier but I wouldn't want him in our midfield either.

Ah, but would he do press-ups in the centre circle as a punishment, if he'd messed up?
I remember Flynn doing that once at the Hawthorns. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 27, 2021, 04:45:01 PM
Ah, but would he do press-ups in the centre circle as a punishment, if he'd messed up?
I remember Flynn doing that once at the Hawthorns.

I remember that! Loved the guys commitment.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on October 27, 2021, 06:58:56 PM
Did the press up routine a few times from memory. Appreciated his commitment more than his passing though. Press up technique wasn't up to much either in fairness. I'd have preferred him to win the ball back having lost it in the first place. Pashun.......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbastrollers on October 27, 2021, 07:30:09 PM
Livermore has no right to resent any other player being offered a new contract while he hasn't. He's a professional and he's on 20k a week inthe EFL.

I could understand general anxiousness about his future though. He's coming to the end of his career and hopefully this is his last year with us regardless. Saying that he always gives his all, good or bad. If he moves on i would wish him the best for the future and hope he finds a new club quickly.

Where have you heard Livermore resents anyone else’s contract offer?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 27, 2021, 08:37:29 PM
Where have you heard Livermore resents anyone else’s contract offer?
He hasn't, he is just clutching at straws in response to my clumsy attempt to defend Jake.
Any opportunity to take a dig.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on October 27, 2021, 09:24:57 PM
He hasn't, he is just clutching at straws in response to my clumsy attempt to defend Jake.
Any opportunity to take a dig.
I didn't think it was clumsy, and I agreed with what you said.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 27, 2021, 10:16:43 PM
I didn't think it was clumsy, and I agreed with what you said.
Cheers mate.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: graka on October 27, 2021, 10:26:14 PM
I have never been a fan of his but he does try.
I think he will leave at the end of the season regardless, he is not good enough for the premiership and his legs can't carry him to play Val's style
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 27, 2021, 10:26:42 PM
He hasn't, he is just clutching at straws in response to my clumsy attempt to defend Jake.
Any opportunity to take a dig.

What are you on about?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 27, 2021, 10:40:47 PM
Just to clarify i am not having a dig at you or Livermore, not sure where the confusion is?

I don't rate Livermore but he has a role to play at this level. What i am on about is Livermore has no way to feel about other players contract extensions and vice versa in the main.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 27, 2021, 10:45:58 PM
Why is this even a thing? It's like we've literally made a story up to beat Livermore with.  Where are his comments about other player's contracts?  If there aren't any then it seems a bit of a nasty attack on the player.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 27, 2021, 11:18:33 PM
Why is this even a thing? It's like we've literally made a story up to beat Livermore with.  Where are his comments about other player's contracts?  If there aren't any then it seems a bit of a nasty attack on the player.

Iwastherein68 said "Jake has given his all this season. If anything he may resent the fact that Phillips and Furlong have been given extended contracts, and he has not,but he is too professional to let that show on the pitch."

I said it doesn't matter who else is given new contracts, it's not Livermore's business and vice versa and it's all got muddled up.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbastrollers on October 28, 2021, 12:52:13 AM
Why is this even a thing? It's like we've literally made a story up to beat Livermore with.  Where are his comments about other player's contracts?  If there aren't any then it seems a bit of a nasty attack on the player.

Well said mate!! There are a few on here who appear to go to any lengths to belittle Jake - no matter what kind of performance he produces, good, bad or indifferent
 He may not be the most cultured of players. However, he is our captain, he puts a shift in and will sacrifice his own performance for the good of the team.
There are those on here who seem to thrive on ‘nasty little attacks’ on the player. Although, I have to say they do appear to be getting ‘culled’.
 I have to admit I was under the impression you were one such poster - I was obviously very wrong.
Jake Livermore is coming to the end of his career - he can be proud that no matter who managed West Bromwich Albion during Jakes time at the Hawthorne’s he in the main has been included in the team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 28, 2021, 12:39:37 PM
I've never complained about Jake's workrate, no problem with his application. However he is a very poor footballer and should be fourth choice. I think the team is better off like last weekend when he isn't playing. It's not any more complicated than that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 28, 2021, 12:40:31 PM
Well said mate!! There are a few on here who appear to go to any lengths to belittle Jake - no matter what kind of performance he produces, good, bad or indifferent
 He may not be the most cultured of players. However, he is our captain, he puts a shift in and will sacrifice his own performance for the good of the team.
There are those on here who seem to thrive on ‘nasty little attacks’ on the player. Although, I have to say they do appear to be getting ‘culled’.
 I have to admit I was under the impression you were one such poster - I was obviously very wrong.
Jake Livermore is coming to the end of his career - he can be proud that no matter who managed West Bromwich Albion during Jakes time at the Hawthorne’s he in the main has been included in the team.

Great post to which I can add nothing
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 28, 2021, 01:10:02 PM
I've never complained about Jake's workrate, no problem with his application. However he is a very poor footballer and should be fourth choice. I think the team is better off like last weekend when he isn't playing. It's not any more complicated than that.

You don't play your whole career in the top 2 divisions (apart from a short loan at Crewe in 2008) as well as getting 7 England caps if you are a poor footballer.

Livermore is a combative midfielder who wins the ball back and helps us keep possession.

When we are overrun in midfield posters moan about it and only blame Livermore yet there are two CMs playing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on October 28, 2021, 01:51:35 PM
Well said mate!! There are a few on here who appear to go to any lengths to belittle Jake - no matter what kind of performance he produces, good, bad or indifferent
 He may not be the most cultured of players. However, he is our captain, he puts a shift in and will sacrifice his own performance for the good of the team.
There are those on here who seem to thrive on ‘nasty little attacks’ on the player. Although, I have to say they do appear to be getting ‘culled’.
 I have to admit I was under the impression you were one such poster - I was obviously very wrong.
Jake Livermore is coming to the end of his career - he can be proud that no matter who managed West Bromwich Albion during Jakes time at the Hawthorne’s he in the main has been included in the team.
I don't think you'll ever stop people having digs at players. It happens at every club and has always gone on. It comes from fans wanting their team wanting to perform better. I think you have to be fair though, but a lot of fans only highlight the shortcomings of certain players, and don't mention what they are good at or never give them a mention when they've played well.

I think Phillips gets a lot of unnecessary stick on here, even when he has just been slightly anonymous, so I feel obliged to defend him. But I do recognise he is inconsistent.
 
With Livermore, I think his basic control and passing technique is very average, which prevents him working the ball quickly in tight spaces or making the decisive through pass. But on the plus side, he is competitive and a ball winner, and he clearly has leadership qualities.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 28, 2021, 01:52:23 PM
You don't play your whole career in the top 2 divisions (apart from a short loan at Crewe in 2008) as well as getting 7 England caps if you are a poor footballer. Livermore is a combative midfielder who wins the ball back and helps us keep possession.  When we are overrun in midfield posters moan about it and only blame Livermore yet there are two CMs playing.

Plugging his England caps sounds desperate. Carlton Palmer and Michel Rickets got England caps and every-time Livermore plays in the premiership he tends to get relegated with Albion. Are you his agent? In all seriousness I just don't agree with anything you've said above. My eyes don't lie to me and Livermore doesn't offer anything on the ball and seldom little off it. I rate Mowat, Molumby and Snodgrass ahead of him. It was not a coincidence that our most accomplished performance in central midfield was last week when Livermore was suspended.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 28, 2021, 02:03:07 PM
Plugging his England caps sounds desperate. Carlton Palmer and Michel Rickets got England caps and every-time Livermore plays in the premiership he tends to get relegated with Albion. Are you his agent? In all seriousness I just don't agree with anything you've said above. My eyes don't lie to me and Livermore doesn't offer anything on the ball and seldom little off it. I rate Mowat, Molumby and Snodgrass ahead of him. It was not a coincidence that our most accomplished performance in central midfield was last week when Livermore was suspended.

Of course I'm not his agent, that's a pathetic thing to suggest.

Hardly desperate, just a counter argument against the 'poor footballer' comment, other players getting England caps in a different time period  is irrelevant and 'desperate' if we are going down that route.

I'd argue that the midfield performance against Sheff Utd was better and Livermore was part of that. Mowatt was also missing last weekend too.

You might not think 'your eyes don't lie' but let's be honest you only see what you want to see. You are one of a number of posters that I have never seen give Livermore any credit even when he has played well, where as I have criticised him and praised him...perhaps my eyesight is better?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 28, 2021, 02:37:07 PM
Plugging his England caps sounds desperate. Carlton Palmer and Michel Rickets got England caps and every-time Livermore plays in the premiership he tends to get relegated with Albion. Are you his agent? In all seriousness I just don't agree with anything you've said above. My eyes don't lie to me and Livermore doesn't offer anything on the ball and seldom little off it. I rate Mowat, Molumby and Snodgrass ahead of him. It was not a coincidence that our most accomplished performance in central midfield was last week when Livermore was suspended.

Is this the same Livermore who played in the 4-0 wins against Cardiff and Sheffield Utd? As well as the majority of our other 3 point games?

I am not seeing any coincidences here, I could have played in midfield on Saturday 82, Bristol were woeful.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 28, 2021, 03:17:12 PM
Of course I'm not his agent, that's a pathetic thing to suggest.

Hardly desperate, just a counter argument against the 'poor footballer' comment, other players getting England caps in a different time period  is irrelevant and 'desperate' if we are going down that route.

I'd argue that the midfield performance against Sheff Utd was better and Livermore was part of that. Mowatt was also missing last weekend too.

You might not think 'your eyes don't lie' but let's be honest you only see what you want to see. You are one of a number of posters that I have never seen give Livermore any credit even when he has played well, where as I have criticised him and praised him...perhaps my eyesight is better?

Well said.

People aren't watching the games closely enough.

If we play Livermore at Fulham we.are almost guaranteed to lose, it'll be like a knife through butter.

People banging on about his England caps, well he was a lot better player about 7 yrs ago, he's nearly 32, has. Abulky physique and was never the greatest technician anyway.

Some players decline quickly - examples Owen, Fowler, Rooney.  JL is in this category.  He was probably past his peak at 27 when we signed him because his pace was dropping even back then.

I'll throw another one at you - Deli Alli not even EPL standard any longer now his pace has gone, been shown up for a poor technique.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 28, 2021, 03:23:14 PM
Well said.

People aren't watching the games closely enough.


If we play Livermore at Fulham we.are almost guaranteed to lose, it'll be like a knife through butter.

People banging on about his England caps, well he was a lot better player about 7 yrs ago, he's nearly 32, has. Abulky physique and was never the greatest technician anyway.

Some players decline quickly - examples Owen, Fowler, Rooney.  JL is in this category.  He was probably past his peak at 27 when we signed him because his pace was dropping even back then.

I'll throw another one at you - Deli Alli not even EPL standard any longer now his pace has gone, been shown up for a poor technique.

I'm surprised you agree with me, you are usually one of his detractors.  :D

I think you meant to quote someone else's post!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on October 28, 2021, 04:07:19 PM
Yes I meant to paste "Baggie 82s" post :o
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 28, 2021, 04:35:39 PM
Yes I meant to paste "Baggie 82s" post :o

and there was me thinking you'd seen the light!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on October 28, 2021, 05:52:44 PM
Snodgrass and Molumby played, or appeared to play well enough together to keep their places as starters for the next match regardless of who we play. However it was against a team who did not play well, or maybe we did not allow Bristol to play well. It surely wouldn't hurt to rest Livermore and give Mowatt more recovery time, but to have them both on the bench. Livermore if Snodgrass is struggling, or Mowatt, if fit, as cover/replacement for either Snodgrass or Molumby if their partnership is not working as well as it seems it might.

Jake adds a bit more physicality to the midfield than any other of our players and might well be needed against many teams. For me he is still a key player, but perhaps he should be used now more as one of our options and not always as a starter.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 29, 2021, 12:00:37 AM
Snodgrass and Molumby played, or appeared to play well enough together to keep their places as starters for the next match regardless of who we play. However it was against a team who did not play well, or maybe we did not allow Bristol to play well. It surely wouldn't hurt to rest Livermore and give Mowatt more recovery time, but to have them both on the bench. Livermore if Snodgrass is struggling, or Mowatt, if fit, as cover/replacement for either Snodgrass or Molumby if their partnership is not working as well as it seems it might.

Jake adds a bit more physicality to the midfield than any other of our players and might well be needed against many teams. For me he is still a key player, but perhaps he should be used now more as one of our options and not always as a starter.

You have summed the whole situation up very well there.....👍
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 29, 2021, 01:00:51 PM
Of course I'm not his agent, that's a pathetic thing to suggest.

Hardly desperate, just a counter argument against the 'poor footballer' comment, other players getting England caps in a different time period  is irrelevant and 'desperate' if we are going down that route.

I'd argue that the midfield performance against Sheff Utd was better and Livermore was part of that. Mowatt was also missing last weekend too.

You might not think 'your eyes don't lie' but let's be honest you only see what you want to see. You are one of a number of posters that I have never seen give Livermore any credit even when he has played well, where as I have criticised him and praised him...perhaps my eyesight is better?

It was a joke, no need to be so dramatic. We disagree on what Livermore brings to the team and that's fine. This place would be a boring site if we all had the same opinion. If Livermore was less of a kick and rush footballer it would be easier to give him some credit but unfortunately his overall game is fairly woeful most of the time; although I have in the past occasionally rolled out of the bed on the wrong side and credited him for the odd decent defensive performance. Given the manager went out of his way to anoint Snodgrass as MOM last week I am hopeful that Jake will remain sidelined this Saturday.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: NJS on October 29, 2021, 08:27:21 PM
O ye moderators, a plea!

I’m all for lively debate but I find that all that can be said regarding Jake has been said and is now being repeated rendering the thread a sterile exercise and quite frankly tedious.

So…

I humbly request that you set up a vote on the footballing calibre of Jake Livermore.  Below I set out some suggested categories upon which the members of this site can express their opinions.  I think I’ve captured the range of opinion.

o   The very worst player ever to besmirch a football pitch with his graceless antics and clumsy footwork

o   A very average player who by some curious circumstance managed to win 7 caps for his country

o   A reasonably talented player for the English championship who gave of his best for his club

o   A hard-tackling, ball winning footballer whose range of passing was adequate if not inspired

o   A player whose coruscating brilliance outshone any other 23 souls unfortunate to be participating in the same match.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on October 30, 2021, 02:46:05 PM
Are we allowed to say we’re worse when he’s in the team?

Judging by previous comments any criticism of Livermore is not allowed on here.

So I’ll just say what a great captain Jake is. Even though he can’t pass, his first touch is terrible and his positional sense is awful he really tries his best, plays with passion and desire and gives everything for the badge.

Whatever that means anyway.

It’ll be a shame if we don’t go up as he’s due another relegation from the PL to add to his CV.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on October 30, 2021, 03:37:35 PM
My biggest issue with Livermore is that he constantly gets simple 5-10 yard passes wrong. I just wish he'd be dropped from this team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on October 30, 2021, 04:09:56 PM
Livermore wasn't the weak link in today's midfield pairing. Not by a long stretch.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on October 30, 2021, 04:29:54 PM
Livermore wasn't the weak link in today's midfield pairing. Not by a long stretch.
Neither him, nor Snodgrass, nor Mulumby set up any chances for the forwards though.
We badly needed someone to provide the service from midfield, but Livermore hardly ever seems to spot an opening, and when he does, his pass is either inaccurate or overhit.
   
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on October 30, 2021, 05:20:11 PM
How he keeps getting game time is beyond me, he’s not got an eye for goal, his passing is sloppy at best, physically weak on the ball and when trying to tackle. Slow at closing players down but what do I know Vals captain fantastic.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 30, 2021, 05:30:37 PM
Neither him, nor Snodgrass, nor Mulumby set up any chances for the forwards though.
We badly needed someone to provide the service from midfield, but Livermore hardly ever seems to spot an opening, and when he does, his pass is either inaccurate or overhit.
 

We don't do providing service by the midfield though.  We smash it long and chase it down. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 30, 2021, 06:06:37 PM
Livermore was comfortably better than Snodgrass today. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 30, 2021, 06:07:55 PM
Livermore was comfortably better than Snodgrass today.

Yes, Snodgrass was the weaker link today and not just because of his error.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on October 30, 2021, 06:08:22 PM
Are we allowed to say we’re worse when he’s in the team?

Judging by previous comments any criticism of Livermore is not allowed on here.

So I’ll just say what a great captain Jake is. Even though he can’t pass, his first touch is terrible and his positional sense is awful he really tries his best, plays with passion and desire and gives everything for the badge.

Whatever that means anyway.

It’ll be a shame if we don’t go up as he’s due another relegation from the PL to add to his CV.

Criticism is fine always has been, abuse is not and never will be. Theres a massive difference.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on October 30, 2021, 08:14:01 PM
Livermore, snodgrass, molumby
Doesn’t matter how you dress it up, non of them are creative …
Now I don’t think Livermore is great m but he does have more England caps than most people on here , and what he does do is give his all ….just that that isn’t technically enough …

So you want/ we need creative
Well Pererira sailed….nothing we can do there , but we had Conor Gallagher on loan and really should have made that permanent when we had the chance , strangely some on here didn’t think he was good enough.
Then there is krovinovic, who would make such a difference in this team , but again some on here didn’t think he was any good ..

But ultimately the manager should use what he has better, Castro, Phillips in a central position, Diangana, thee are options , try stuff when we are 2-0 up with 15-20 mins left ?
But nope, we make the same tactical subs each game at the same time …poor really.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 30, 2021, 10:40:00 PM
How he keeps getting game time is beyond me, he’s not got an eye for goal, his passing is sloppy at best, physically weak on the ball and when trying to tackle. Slow at closing players down but what do I know Vals captain fantastic.

Physically weak? No. Amazed at that comment. He may lack some attributes but he’s not weak.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 31, 2021, 02:37:24 PM
Physically weak? No. Amazed at that comment. He may lack some attributes but he’s not weak.

Yeah, if we were building a steam to compete in the UFC I'd select Livermore, but not to play any football. Sam Allardyce figured him out pretty quick. Depressing he walked straight back into the side yesterday. How about his miss from underneath the cross bar on the hour mark when he ballooned it over? I don't think he's had a single goal attempt on target this season and it's not for a lack of shooting.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 01, 2021, 10:14:01 AM
Neither him, nor Snodgrass, nor Mulumby set up any chances for the forwards though.
We badly needed someone to provide the service from midfield, but Livermore hardly ever seems to spot an opening, and when he does, his pass is either inaccurate or overhit.
 

both of the two good chances we had in the game (Townsends cross/shot for Hugill and Townsends cross into Livermore) were started by Livermore winning the ball and playing it forward to Grant who played it out to Townsend.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on November 01, 2021, 10:56:41 AM
He did play decent on Saturday, as he did against Swansea, but there is a pattern of him standing out when, as a team, we are pretty gash! Maybe just coincidence  ::)

I do have to question though, and I've only heard it anecdotally, that Ish basically said that if fit he starts. Can anyone confirm if this is true? If so then Molumby must still have ice on his nethers, because that is an almighty kick in the nads following his MotM performance against BC. Terrible man management if true.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie53 on November 01, 2021, 12:46:32 PM
He did play decent on Saturday, as he did against Swansea, but there is a pattern of him standing out when, as a team, we are pretty gash! Maybe just coincidence  ::)

I do have to question though, and I've only heard it anecdotally, that Ish basically said that if fit he starts. Can anyone confirm if this is true? If so then Molumby must still have ice on his nethers, because that is an almighty kick in the nads following his MotM performance against BC. Terrible man management if true.
He did say that in his pre match interview on Saturday
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 20, 2021, 04:43:04 PM
Just pay up the rest of his contract and be done with it, totally useless.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mr multivac on November 20, 2021, 04:52:23 PM
We were quite a decent premier league side before Livermore darkened our doorstep
since then we’ve gone backwards ,
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 20, 2021, 04:57:24 PM
Livermore is on £46,000 p.w. I've heard.  The coaching set up is incompetent.  Why on earth would you even offer him a new contract, let alone adhere to paying him this?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on November 20, 2021, 05:18:00 PM
Whilst I understand the frustration and the point regarding Jake, he is the least of our problems at the moment.

Allardyce spotted it though😉
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 20, 2021, 05:21:50 PM
Whilst I understand the frustration and the point regarding Jake, he is the least of our problems at the moment.

Allardyce spotted it though😉

Non creative when he's on the pitch.  A big part of the problem. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gerry m on November 20, 2021, 05:25:03 PM
I appreciate people will stick up for him but Jesus how many times has he been sent off for us?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on November 20, 2021, 05:26:29 PM
I appreciate people will stick up for him but Jesus how many times has he been sent off for us?
4
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on November 20, 2021, 05:28:07 PM
Non creative when he's on the pitch.  A big part of the problem.
He can't spot a through pass along the ground. His forward passes, mainly through the air, never puts a forward through on goal.
But he was unlucky with the red card as the bloke stooped very low with his head.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on November 20, 2021, 05:29:33 PM
Non creative when he's on the pitch.  A big part of the problem.
Not defending him but the way we set up we create little or nothing from the midfield .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Blowee on November 20, 2021, 05:49:36 PM
The problem is that he’s automatic first choice. He can play well but is often anonymous. Interesting to hear Val’s interview in which he talks about a desperate appeal to overturn the red card so that his name can be the first on the team sheet next match!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on November 20, 2021, 07:51:20 PM
He was awful today and whilst wrongly sent off he couldnt find a pass. Hes on too much money- when is his contract up?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on November 20, 2021, 07:54:27 PM
He was awful today and whilst wrongly sent off he couldnt find a pass. Hes on too much money- when is his contract up?

He'll get an extension no doubt. That's the Albion way.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on November 20, 2021, 08:06:08 PM
He'll get an extension no doubt. That's the Albion way.

Nope. The Albion Numpty Board's way.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on November 21, 2021, 10:25:18 AM
Just saw the hihglights for yetserdays game. What a stupid tackle to make. No malice at all but the lads already got his head down. Very naive from JL.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on November 21, 2021, 12:10:20 PM
Our only hope is that he gets 3 game ban as Molumby and Mowatt, could, at least, give us another dimension going forward.
However, the desperation from the manager, regarding the appeal, suggests that he can't see it so, even if we, handsomely, win all 3 games, Captain Slow will be back in with bell's on.

I really can't make head nor tail of what this manager is seeing in these players, nor can I see any clue as to what they are doing in training. For a manager of a team on such a poor run to state that any player, let alone one as poor and limited as Livermore, is guaranteed a place, is naive at best, downright negligent at worst.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on November 21, 2021, 12:18:40 PM
Disgraceful attitude from VI to be fair.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on November 21, 2021, 12:34:11 PM
Disgraceful attitude from VI to be fair.

My biggest issue with VI at the moment is his attitude towards players.

1 Rushing Mowatt back after his injury at Stoke. It was obvious he wasn't really fit next time out but he risked the player.

2 This Livermore plays if he's fit thing really gets up my nose. I hate that attitude. Nothing against Livermore but no player should be guaranteed a place and even if they are they and the rest of the squad should never know it.

I have sympathy with Val on a number of issues but not on those above.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on November 21, 2021, 12:41:28 PM
VI has sympathy over the front 3 but a lot of his problems are his own choices as you rightly say.

No player should ever be guaranteed a place, i don't care who they are. You are spot on there.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on November 21, 2021, 12:45:55 PM
Didn't see the game yesterday but seen the summary

20 shots - only 2 on target and Callum Robinson left on the bench
Livermore red card - to add to his recent suspension from yellows - he is a joke of a player
Hugill - failed again

I like Ismael, he is smart but he needs to smell the coffee and stop being so stubborn.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on November 21, 2021, 12:48:34 PM
Didn't see the game yesterday but seen the summary

20 shots - only 2 on target and Callum Robinson left on the bench
Livermore red card - to add to his recent suspension from yellows - he is a joke of a player
Hugill - failed again

I like Ismael, he is smart but he needs to smell the coffee and stop being so stubborn.

To be fair:

The Livermore straight red was a joke of a decision

Robinson has done previously little lately to earn a place

Hugill never threatened but neither did any of our forwards.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on November 21, 2021, 12:57:37 PM
To be fair:

The Livermore straight red was a joke of a decision

Robinson has done previously little lately to earn a place

Hugill never threatened but neither did any of our forwards.

As opposed to Matt Phillips and Hugill who is less useful than a dustbin. The manager is idiotic to keep playing certain players including Livermore who fail, consistently. At least Robinson is in a rich vein of form the Ireland, where he get to actually play 90 minutes.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on November 21, 2021, 01:01:25 PM
As opposed to Matt Phillips and Hugill who is less useful than a dustbin. The manager is idiotic to keep playing certain players including Livermore who fail, consistently. At least Robinson is in a rich vein of form the Ireland, where he get to actually play 90 minutes.

Ireland are playing teams that wouldn't get in any of our four divisions.

I'm not saying Phillips or Hugill are pulling up any trees by the way but Robinson is hardly commanding a place.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on November 21, 2021, 01:07:12 PM
Ireland are playing teams that wouldn't get in any of our four divisions.  I'm not saying Phillips or Hugill are pulling up any trees by the way but Robinson is hardly commanding a place.

I'd pick an ornament object over Hugill; more use.  How long is Livermore suspended for, 3 games? Molumby should never has been dropped.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on November 21, 2021, 01:12:47 PM
I'd pick an ornament object over Hugill; more use.  How long is Livermore suspended for, 3 games? Molumby should never has been dropped.

We may appeal the sending off according to Val.

Agree regarding Molumby.

Hugill improves us at times which says a lot for the others.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 21, 2021, 02:13:54 PM
We are appealing it  :'(

No doubt he will be back in for the next game and I will have absolutely no interest in watching it again
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Groovephil on November 21, 2021, 05:47:51 PM
The best thing that could happen is Val have his hand forced not to play him as he sure ain’t going to drop him.

I like Jake but he shouldn’t be captain.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WorcsWBA on November 21, 2021, 10:30:30 PM
All I can say is that I hope the appeal against Livermore's dismissal fails and that we get 3 games to see how Mowatt and Molumby operate together. Whether Mowatt is fit enough to start again on Tuesday remains to be seen though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 22, 2021, 07:00:41 AM
If we look back on the last 20 years, Livermore's performance levels are way below WBA expectations at Championship level.

If we measure him against McInnes, Andy Johnson, Morrison, Dorrans and Koren, he would be the worst of that list comfortably.

What does he actually do apart from tackles, easy 5 yard passes and "buzzing around"?

Its got to the stage where if we concede the 1st goal in a game, we haven't got the creativity to pull it back.

Even the Swansea game, he was knackered on 60mins, the Manager refused to sub him and we lose from being ahead.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 22, 2021, 08:51:59 AM
The one positive to his suspension is that I no longer have to watch our centre halves make five or six passes before Livermore sprays an attempted 40 yard pass into the corner which either goes out for a throw in or a goal kick.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on November 22, 2021, 10:07:59 AM
Livermore contract is up end of this season as well. hopefully no extension
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on November 22, 2021, 10:16:19 AM
If we look back on the last 20 years, Livermore's performance levels are way below WBA expectations at Championship level.

If we measure him against McInnes, Andy Johnson, Morrison, Dorrans and Koren, he would be the worst of that list comfortably.

What does he actually do apart from tackles, easy 5 yard passes and "buzzing around"?

Its got to the stage where if we concede the 1st goal in a game, we haven't got the creativity to pull it back.

Even the Swansea game, he was knackered on 60mins, the Manager refused to sub him and we lose from being ahead.
Even when he wins a tackle, he rarely wins the ball. How many times does he get there first but doesn't have the composure to retain the ball and if he does he panics and goes backwards.
This is real key to our demise at the minute as we need a quicker transition when we turn over possession. If Livermore could not just win the tackle but actually get the ball and play a first time forward pass I'm sure all of Grant, Robinson, Diangana and Phillips would be over the moon! As it is he just slows things down, which allows the oppo to regain their defensive shape and we are back down the wing with no-one in the box!
He actually did it against Swansea and bang 1-0, it just doesn't happen enough. Molumby and Snodgrass did it exceptionally against Bristol, so, the thought of either of them coming in at least gives me hope. I really hope his ban is upheld.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiebof on November 22, 2021, 10:22:45 AM
Our current style probably suits Livermore to an extent as the role of the central midfielder in this system is to press, tackle and win second balls. There is no onus to cover a lot of ground either horizontally, which we know he struggled with under Bilic, nor is there the onus to contribute with goals or act as a creator, as we know, he is average on the ball. I think he has been decent this season and by the way, I'm no fan.

What is clear though is that Molumby looks a better player and certainly a better prospect. I have no doubt that Livermore the person brings a lot to the squad, otherwise so many managers wouldn't have kept him around and made him skipper, but he can still contribute to that side of things within the match day squad. I'd have Molumby and Mowatt ahead of him every time and for timed that we have lots of possession, Snodgrass too.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on November 22, 2021, 11:22:38 AM
Livermore contract is up end of this season as well. hopefully no extension

By look of things VI dying to give him one.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on November 22, 2021, 11:45:08 AM
By look of things VI dying to give him one.

I don't think he is Jakes type but it does explain his constant selection  ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on November 22, 2021, 11:49:03 AM
I don't think he is Jakes type but it does explain his constant selection  ;)

I'm glad my hinting was picked up on.  ;D

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on November 22, 2021, 01:46:32 PM
I hear that Blackpool, Forest and Cov are also appealing Jakes sending off.  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on November 22, 2021, 02:50:23 PM
I hear that Blackpool, Forest and Cov are also appealing Jakes sending off.  :D
Sad that so many of you need to take the **** of the one player who has definately not thrown the towel in, when most of them appear to have done so.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on November 22, 2021, 04:19:09 PM
Red card upheld , ridiculous regardless of what you think of JL, further weakens squad that is already paper thin
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 22, 2021, 04:24:07 PM
Oh thank God.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on November 22, 2021, 04:25:23 PM
Well that’s cheered me right up.

Shame they couldn’t have found something to ban Phillips and Bartley for.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on November 22, 2021, 04:30:27 PM
Well that’s cheered me right up.
Shame they couldn’t have found something to ban Phillips and Bartley for.
impersonating footballers? ::)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on November 22, 2021, 04:36:24 PM
Oh thank God.
Not an Albion fan then !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on November 22, 2021, 04:44:48 PM
Not an Albion fan then !

Definitely not, it's not as if I have held a season ticket for in excess of thirty years now and still traipse down there despite the lack of any form of ambition being shown by the club  ::)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on November 22, 2021, 05:29:37 PM
I’m with Fritzl on this - happy the ban has been upheld as the team is better when he’s not on the pitch.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 22, 2021, 05:36:14 PM
Great news - the best we've had at WBA in ages.

All of a sudden I fancy us to win at Blackpool and at least create some chances!

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on November 22, 2021, 05:46:22 PM
OK let's see what happens:

Mowatt and Snodgrass?

Snodgrass and Molumby?

Molumby and Mowatt?

Hope for the last but expect the first :'(
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBaggieMan on November 22, 2021, 05:53:43 PM
OK let's see what happens:

Mowatt and Snodgrass?

Snodgrass and Molumby?

Molumby and Mowatt?

Hope for the last but expect the first :'(

Got to be the ‘Two M’s’
but Val will probably surprise us all.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WorcsWBA on November 22, 2021, 06:08:17 PM
Red card upheld , ridiculous regardless of what you think of JL, further weakens squad that is already paper thin
Assuming a level playing field, now's the chance for Molumby to cement his place in the starting line-up. I agree about the squad being paper thin in central midfield though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on November 22, 2021, 06:12:04 PM
I’m with Fritzl on this - happy the ban has been upheld as the team is better when he’s not on the pitch.
Having a senior pro banned when we have a paper thin squad as it is is not good no matter what you think of the individual concerned . Snodgrass was out injured Saturday , Mowatt has missed as many games as he’s played in the last couple of months , Molumby pulled out of the Irish squad , Castro has been injured . Come the Coventry game we could be in dire straits in the engine room of the team . The thinking that having somebody suspended is good for the club is plain idiotic
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 22, 2021, 06:24:37 PM
Having a senior pro banned when we have a paper thin squad as it is is not good no matter what you think of the individual concerned . Snodgrass was out injured Saturday , Mowatt has missed as many games as he’s played in the last couple of months , Molumby pulled out of the Irish squad , Castro has been injured . Come the Coventry game we could be in dire straits in the engine room of the team . The thinking that having somebody suspended is good for the club is plain idiotic

Ajayi could do better as CM than Livermore.  For starters he can tackle and is more mobile, OK he would lack creativity (no difference there).

Then you could promote one of the U23 kids and would be on a par with JL!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 22, 2021, 07:32:38 PM
Ajayi could do better as CM than Livermore.  For starters he can tackle and is more mobile, OK he would lack creativity (no difference there).

Then you could promote one of the U23 kids and would be on a par with JL!

Definitely not.

I’m still having nightmare of Ajayi’s performances in midfield against Sheff Wed and Blackpool last season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on November 22, 2021, 07:45:50 PM
Great news - the best we've had at WBA in ages.

All of a sudden I fancy us to win at Blackpool and at least create some chances!
Unbelievably crass comment
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on November 22, 2021, 09:05:02 PM
Its not ideal as the squad is paper thin. However the positive is that it forces val hand to change his system at least a little and might save his own neck.

Hopefully we see mowatt and molumby. I dont want Livermore to get an extension he is one of quite a few that are overpaid and overrated by the club.

Whilst the current ownership is here we need to have a younger and technically better squad on less money to have any chance of going up and staying up to be sold
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 22, 2021, 09:11:21 PM
Definitely not.

I’m still having nightmare of Ajayi’s performances in midfield against Sheff Wed and Blackpool last season.

Livermore has had more than just 2 nightmare performances, a good chunk of last season's matches for instance.

He's now coming up against players on X10 less in wages and still coming up short.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 22, 2021, 09:14:02 PM
Unbelievably crass comment

You've been around longer than me.  However, you clearly see something in him that others don't.

There's many other WBA players that have faced flak down the years he's not the only one.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on November 22, 2021, 10:22:18 PM
Great news - the best we've had at WBA in ages.

All of a sudden I fancy us to win at Blackpool and at least create some chances!

You don’t like him, we get it. We are infinitely better without him…. Oh wait a minute, Middlesbrough at home, very poor display when Livermore was suspended. Our poor form is not all down to him you know.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on November 22, 2021, 10:53:51 PM
I think GREGMT's going to need a bigger keep net. He'll be able to feed the 5,000 at this rate........ ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ttree30 on November 22, 2021, 11:29:03 PM
I’m not happy the ban’s been upheld because I can’t ever see how losing a player helps us.

But Livermore’s no good anyway, so I’m not sure it really matters very much.

And this is the umpteenth time he’s been suspended - he’s forever getting booked or sent off.

A poor player. Doesn’t score, doesn’t create, has no pace or incisiveness. But his likely replacements don’t either, which says much about the poverty of our squad. 🤷‍♂️
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on November 23, 2021, 08:25:06 AM
Give the guy a break, he plays in the stripes.  I think the problem is his main strengths are defensive, and we don't really need that with 3 CBs.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on November 23, 2021, 08:54:07 AM
Over to Val now to try something different.
Livermore is a poor player and there's absolutely no reason for him to have a guaranteed place in the 11, but this now becomes a real test of his understudies, if they do a great job then they should be allowed to continue, if they fail, then there can be no complaints if Livermore comes back in.
No agenda, no disrespect, just simple process really, it's not rocket science.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on November 23, 2021, 09:50:18 AM
Ajayi could do better as CM than Livermore.  For starters he can tackle and is more mobile, OK he would lack creativity (no difference there).

Then you could promote one of the U23 kids and would be on a par with JL!
Yeah right he’s not good enough to get in the side in his natural position so he can play in somebody else’s. Don’t forget we tried this and it was an awful failure !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 23, 2021, 10:16:27 AM
Yeah right he’s not good enough to get in the side in his natural position so he can play in somebody else’s. Don’t forget we tried this and it was an awful failure !

2 games to judge Ajayi in that position is not a big sample size.

By contrast Livermore had 17 EPL games last season, where teams just walked through our midfield, embarrassing.  This season, we just tread water with him in the side.  If you think different, fine.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on November 23, 2021, 12:52:55 PM
Over to Val now to try something different.
Livermore is a poor player and there's absolutely no reason for him to have a guaranteed place in the 11, but this now becomes a real test of his understudies, if they do a great job then they should be allowed to continue, if they fail, then there can be no complaints if Livermore comes back in.
No agenda, no disrespect, just simple process really, it's not rocket science.

Now this is a post I agree with. Lets see how things work out over next 3 games and take it from there. No man should be guaranteed a place in the side. Equally, some see JL as the root of all our evils. If only it was so simple!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on November 27, 2021, 05:18:24 AM
Gerrin better without Jake ay it ? Mulumby's showin um ay he?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 27, 2021, 07:08:16 AM
Livermore is finished and can only play for 60mins.  We lost a T Huddersfield remember.

One thing is for sure, recall Livermore and we get worse.....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on November 27, 2021, 08:30:37 AM
Livermore is finished and can only play for 60mins.  We lost a T Huddersfield remember.

One thing is for sure, recall Livermore and we get worse.....

This is just embarrassing, the guy has not played for 2 games yet your unpleasant campaign against him has picked up pace. Why?? Current form is really poor, with or without JL, so why pin all the blame on him?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on November 27, 2021, 08:48:08 AM
Can't believe Molumby gets his chance for a run in central midfield as Jake's replacement only to get sent off. Regardless of whatever anyone thinks of that second yellow Livermore's current suspension leaves us with a headache.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on November 27, 2021, 08:50:29 AM
This is just embarrassing, the guy has not played for 2 games yet your unpleasant campaign against him has picked up pace. Why?? Current form is really poor, with or without JL, so why pin all the blame on him?
Unfortunately GREGMT is not alone. Some of our supporters on this forum have to have a player that they can focus their dislike on. I notice that in Jake's absence some have turned  then attention to Kipre, and god help whoever replaces the formerly much maligned SJ when he moves on.
Of course this is a forum , and one place where we can praise or criticise players performances etc but fair play to all I say, and trolling should be discouraged by the moderators as well as contributors to the forum.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 27, 2021, 08:50:37 AM
Livermore has delivered 1 assist and 0 goals and has played 90% of games in this sorry season.  Molumby has started 3 we scored 3 and conceded 0.

Livermore should have left last summer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on November 27, 2021, 09:00:23 AM
Livermore is finished and can only play for 60mins.  We lost a T Huddersfield remember.

One thing is for sure, recall Livermore and we get worse.....
So who do you put  CM at Coventry. Castro looks to have been injured for a while   Snoddy doesn't seem to want to play and gives no balance as we would have 2 left footers, Ajayi has been tried and failed, TGH is NOT a central midfielder As said at the time Livermore getting suspended was not good and unlikely to end well. The only option I can see is Phillips alongside Mowatt which may help the passing but not the energy
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on November 27, 2021, 09:08:41 AM
Phillips is a good strategy at the very least he will not be playing up top
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on November 27, 2021, 09:41:22 AM
.........The only option I can see is Phillips alongside Mowatt which may help the passing but not the energy

This is the best short term option I can see given the lopsided limitations associated to a Mowatt partnership of either Snodgrass or the more lightweight Reach.

If only Turn Coat Tim hadn't signed for the Vile. Pity Castro's reportedly injured too. What's the betting Darnell starts in central midfield against Coventry?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on November 27, 2021, 03:31:54 PM
Unfortunately GREGMT is not alone. Some of our supporters on this forum have to have a player that they can focus their dislike on. I notice that in Jake's absence some have turned  then attention to Kipre, and god help whoever replaces the formerly much maligned SJ when he moves on.
Of course this is a forum , and one place where we can praise or criticise players performances etc but fair play to all I say, and trolling should be discouraged by the moderators as well as contributors to the forum.

Not rating Jake Liverpool is called having an opinion not trolling. He is a very poor player and I think the majority of the fan base would prefer the two who started in midfield instead of him. Shame Molumby is banned for the next one.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on November 27, 2021, 03:40:53 PM
Not rating Jake Liverpool is called having an opinion not trolling. He is a very poor player and I think the majority of the fan base would prefer the two who started in midfield instead of him. Shame Molumby is banned for the next one.

It's interesting comparing the criticisms though.  James red card was ridiculously soft, whereas Moloumby's 2nd yellow could easily have been a straight red, let alone yellow. Yet Livermore git way more criticism. 

Likewise Mowatts passing last night was as bad as anything for the first 40 mins.  Yet nothing about that
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on November 27, 2021, 06:00:25 PM
It's interesting comparing the criticisms though.  James red card was ridiculously soft, whereas Moloumby's 2nd yellow could easily have been a straight red, let alone yellow. Yet Livermore git way more criticism. 

Likewise Mowatts passing last night was as bad as anything for the first 40 mins.  Yet nothing about that

If you are suggesting that Livermore has been as good or better than Mowatt or Molumby this season then I think you are in a very small section of the fan base. Livermore has been way poorer so obviously has got way more criticism; most fans see a very poor footballer who is part of the problem not the solution which I think is broadly accurate.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on November 27, 2021, 06:29:20 PM
It's interesting comparing the criticisms though.  James red card was ridiculously soft, whereas Moloumby's 2nd yellow could easily have been a straight red, let alone yellow. Yet Livermore git way more criticism. 

Likewise Mowatts passing last night was as bad as anything for the first 40 mins.  Yet nothing about that

Mowatt was rubbish first half last night, i called him out for being abysmal in the in game thread. I think it's the regularity of crapness that gets people up against certain players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on November 27, 2021, 09:16:42 PM
If you are suggesting that Livermore has been as good or better than Mowatt or Molumby this season then I think you are in a very small section of the fan base. Livermore has been way poorer so obviously has got way more criticism; most fans see a very poor footballer who is part of the problem not the solution which I think is broadly accurate.

Not suggesting that at all.  I'm simply pointing out that if Livermore gave the ball away like Mowatt did first half- and we are talking simple 6 yard passes missing their man etc - then the criticism aimed at Livermore would be far worse.

If someone would criticise Livermore for passing like that it seems only fair they would criticise Mowatt.  I just like to see people even handed with their criticism.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 27, 2021, 10:08:44 PM
Not suggesting that at all.  I'm simply pointing out that if Livermore gave the ball away like Mowatt did first half- and we are talking simple 6 yard passes missing their man etc - then the criticism aimed at Livermore would be far worse.

If someone would criticise Livermore for passing like that it seems only fair they would criticise Mowatt.  I just like to see people even handed with their criticism.

I don't think you get it.  What Baggie82 and Myself think is that overall Mowatt and Mulumby are superior to Livermore.

Yes anyone can make mistakes and have a bad game.

What is being analysed here is it is illogical to think Livermore has started virtually all those matches.

We won handsomely v Bristol City and there has been an upturn in performance v Blackpool & Forest.

If we go back to Livermore than we are playing a true defensive midfielder that has virtually no attacking qualities in a team trying to score goals.

It's not about systems it's about having quality players, Livermore is definitely a backward step.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on November 27, 2021, 10:21:32 PM
Not suggesting that at all.  I'm simply pointing out that if Livermore gave the ball away like Mowatt did first half- and we are talking simple 6 yard passes missing their man etc - then the criticism aimed at Livermore would be far worse.

If someone would criticise Livermore for passing like that it seems only fair they would criticise Mowatt.  I just like to see people even handed with their criticism.
Of course, any player can make mistakes, sometimes costly, but Mowatt has a vastly superior passing technique to Livermore's. He strikes it early along the ground to players further up the park. That being able to strike the ball in one touch is crucial. Livermore needs an extra touch or 2 which breaks the momentum of an attack. Also, many of Livermore's passes are through the air. These are more awkward for the recipient to control. Accuracy is another point. Some people think a pass within a meter or so will do, but the best passers get them spot on and so make it easier for the recipient.

Not saying Livermore hasn't got other qualities, like tackling, but Mowatt is a pretty sound tackler also.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on November 28, 2021, 07:35:29 AM
Livermore needs to be let go on a free come summer.

None of the cms have set the world alight of late. Molumby was daft friday. He is young and has time to improve and long term could and should be Livermores replacement.

Since his injury mowatt hasnt quite been at it. Was better at Blackpool than v forest however he was probably burned out
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 28, 2021, 12:02:32 PM
Livermore has delivered 1 assist and 0 goals and has played 90% of games in this sorry season.  Molumby has started 3 we scored 3 and conceded 0.

Livermore should have left last summer.

You aren't comparing like for like there though? How  many assists and goals has Molumby got in his games? 0 same as Jake , he's got the same amount of red cards in less games too.

In Livermore's first 3 games of the season we scored 9 and conceded 4.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 28, 2021, 12:06:01 PM
I don't think you get it.  What Baggie82 and Myself think is that overall Mowatt and Mulumby are superior to Livermore.

Yes anyone can make mistakes and have a bad game.

What is being analysed here is it is illogical to think Livermore has started virtually all those matches.

We won handsomely v Bristol City and there has been an upturn in performance v Blackpool & Forest.

If we go back to Livermore than we are playing a true defensive midfielder that has virtually no attacking qualities in a team trying to score goals.

It's not about systems it's about having quality players, Livermore is definitely a backward step.

None of those performances were as good as when we beat Blackburn and Sheff Utd with Livermore in the side. We were also playing better for the first 5 games of the season and even Peterborough away was better than most of our recent games including Blackpool and Forest.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on November 28, 2021, 12:25:53 PM
It's a moot point now anyway, if he wasn't guaranteed a start before, he is now that Snodgrass has been bombed.
Reach will come in for Cov, then back to business as usual.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 28, 2021, 12:45:19 PM
You aren't comparing like for like there though? How  many assists and goals has Molumby got in his games? 0 same as Jake , he's got the same amount of red cards in less games too.

In Livermore's first 3 games of the season we scored 9 and conceded 4.



You seem to really value Livermore's contributions, however, there's hardly anyone else making a case for his inclusion, it would appear you're in the minority.

Livermore is not a creative force, and with a team currently bereft of goals, he is surely not what you want?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on November 28, 2021, 01:10:29 PM
You seem to really value Livermore's contributions, however, there's hardly anyone else making a case for his inclusion, it would appear you're in the minority.

Livermore is not a creative force, and with a team currently bereft of goals, he is surely not what you want?

There are plenty of posters on here who back Livermore, just because we are a minority doesn't mean we're wrong.

Livermore doesn't have to be the creative force, he's a defensive midfielder, Mowatt is supposed to be the creative player along with the wingbacks and Robinson, Grant, Phillips, Diangana etc.

The lack of goals and creativity is throughout the team and I'd argue the evidence for that points to the inability of the team to follow the managers playing philosophy as we were scoring and creating plenty earlier in the season...oddly enough when Livermore was in the side.

How much have we created without Livermore?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on November 28, 2021, 01:14:52 PM
There are plenty of posters on here who back Livermore, just because we are a minority doesn't mean we're wrong.

Livermore doesn't have to be the creative force, he's a defensive midfielder, Mowatt is supposed to be the creative player along with the wingbacks and Robinson, Grant, Phillips, Diangana etc.

The lack of goals and creativity is throughout the team and I'd argue the evidence for that points to the inability of the team to follow the managers playing philosophy as we were scoring and creating plenty earlier in the season...oddly enough when Livermore was in the side.

How much have we created without Livermore?

This 👆👍
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 28, 2021, 01:21:56 PM
There are plenty of posters on here who back Livermore, just because we are a minority doesn't mean we're wrong.

Livermore doesn't have to be the creative force, he's a defensive midfielder, Mowatt is supposed to be the creative player along with the wingbacks and Robinson, Grant, Phillips, Diangana etc.

The lack of goals and creativity is throughout the team and I'd argue the evidence for that points to the inability of the team to follow the managers playing philosophy as we were scoring and creating plenty earlier in the season...oddly enough when Livermore was in the side.

How much have we created without Livermore?

We have had 41 shots in last 2 matches without JL. Why do you need a defensive midfielder in Livermore when we have 3 CB's and the strikers confidence is shot?

Mowatt is a better attacking and defensive midfielder than Livermore and has far more energy.

We are fine at stopping the opposition from scoring, that's not the point, it's about finding extra guile.  Livermore will provide hurly burly by little else.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on November 28, 2021, 01:26:40 PM
How many good chances have we created though? A 'shot' by Townsend from 35 yards is hardly evidence we are creating good chances.

2 games without Livermore and I don't see any improvement on chances created at all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 28, 2021, 01:29:11 PM
Livermore was awful v Huddersfield.  The performance was better v Blackpool and Forest without him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on November 28, 2021, 01:31:16 PM
I don't think you get it.  What Baggie82 and Myself think is that overall Mowatt and Mulumby are superior to Livermore.

Yes anyone can make mistakes and have a bad game.

What is being analysed here is it is illogical to think Livermore has started virtually all those matches.

We won handsomely v Bristol City and there has been an upturn in performance v Blackpool & Forest.

If we go back to Livermore than we are playing a true defensive midfielder that has virtually no attacking qualities in a team trying to score goals.

It's not about systems it's about having quality players, Livermore is definitely a backward step.

My preferred choice would be for Moloumby and Mowatt to be given a good run.

I'm not talking about who is the better player,  I'm pointing out that there's clear differences in how individual performances are judged.  Can you imagine the vitriol of Livermore had given the goal away like Mowatt did? You can't genuinely tell me that you think the reactions would have been the same?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 28, 2021, 01:38:38 PM
My preferred choice would be for Moloumby and Mowatt to be given a good run.

I'm not talking about who is the better player,  I'm pointing out that there's clear differences in how individual performances are judged.  Can you imagine the vitriol of Livermore had given the goal away like Mowatt did? You can't genuinely tell me that you think the reactions would have been the same?

Fair play I like that.  Livermore has been afforded so many opportunities this season, opportunities not given to other players.

As the season has unfolded, the commitment to 3 CB's and a lack of goals mean we should be seriously be questioning  the logic of Livermore as an automatic pick?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on November 28, 2021, 01:58:17 PM
I don't have issues with Livermore like some but I do think he'd suit a midfield 3 much better now , simply hasn't got the legs for a midfield 2 ....certainly not 2 or 3 games in 7 days.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on November 28, 2021, 02:00:32 PM
I don't have issues with Livermore like some but I do think he'd suit a midfield 3 much better now , simply hasn't got the legs for a midfield 2 ....certainly not 2 or 3 games in 7 days.

Exactly this.

Mowatt and Molumby you can have in a midfield 2, no one else.  When Snodgrass / Livermore was tried it was ridiculous!!!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on November 28, 2021, 02:06:07 PM
I don't have issues with Livermore like some but I do think he'd suit a midfield 3 much better now , simply hasn't got the legs for a midfield 2 ....certainly not 2 or 3 games in 7 days.

I’m with you in that my midfield would consist of the three of them.

I don’t think that’s a possibility going forwards as we would have nobody beneath them such is our shortage of numbers.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gavinrussell on November 28, 2021, 02:17:42 PM
Dont think it really matters whether we are for or against JL..I will almost guarantee that he comes straight back into the starting line up with the Captains Armband... the Manager rates him and thats all that counts..
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on November 29, 2021, 07:50:35 PM
I honestly don't know why the previous posts were removed - There was nothing outrageous in my post, nor the response of the others to my post - If the members of this board can't allow an opinion to be posted - then why are we here - Not everything will be a happy clappy topic

Still waiting for someone to advocate the case for Livermore to not be moved on as soon as is viable - awful player, poor captain.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on November 29, 2021, 07:58:26 PM
I honestly don't know why the previous posts were removed - There was nothing outrageous in my post, nor the response of the others to my post - If the members of this board can't allow an opinion to be posted - then why are we here - Not everything will be a happy clappy topic

Still waiting for someone to advocate the case for Livermore to not be moved on as soon as is viable - awful player, poor captain.

You have a problem with anything then pm a member of the mod/admin team instead of moaning in the topic.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on November 29, 2021, 08:07:21 PM
We have had 41 shots in last 2 matches without JL. Why do you need a defensive midfielder in Livermore when we have 3 CB's and the strikers confidence is shot?

Mowatt is a better attacking and defensive midfielder than Livermore and has far more energy.

We are fine at stopping the opposition from scoring, that's not the point, it's about finding extra guile.  Livermore will provide hurly burly by little else.

Didn’t we have similar shots totals when he played in the previous games???

For the record Livermore cracks a few of those shots even if they don’t always come off
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on November 29, 2021, 08:09:26 PM
I’ve no issue with Livermore, I think he deserves a place myself. Currently.

Would I like to see him upgraded…absolutely.

But I’ve no issue with him though
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on November 30, 2021, 09:02:50 AM
I honestly don't know why the previous posts were removed.........Still waiting for someone to advocate the case for Livermore to not be moved on as soon as is viable - awful player, poor captain.

Didn't see the posts before they were removed but has anyone actually suggested he should be given a contract extension? For myself I honestly believe he's become a go to figure for abuse and often comes in for undue criticism.

Yes he makes mistakes but I'm just amazed at some of the stuff he gets blamed for while Mowatt for instance often gets a free pass. At the same time his detractors rarely acknowledge when he's actually done something good or had a decent game.

It's like a default setting. Jake isn't always the problem yet he's an easy target for derision. We all know he isn't a world beater but at the same time he isn't always at fault either, yet collective failures are almost always laid solely at his feet.

For the record, no, I am not advocating we retain his services. It's time for a reset. We need someone more mobile, able to play on the turn and more consistent. Are we going to get that with Jake's wages off the bill? Possibly but I honestly have no idea who is available for his role and on a free.

Let's face it, we probably won't be paying much of a tranfer fee on an up and coming replacement. Again, that's not an excuse to keep him. For me we shouldn't have offered contract extensions to Bartley, Furlong or Phillips either.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on December 01, 2021, 11:33:02 PM
Didn’t we have similar shots totals when he played in the previous games???

For the record Livermore cracks a few of those shots even if they don’t always come off

I don’t think he’s had a single shot on target this season, some truly incredibly bad efforts from him. There was one match at home in which he miss kicked a shot with his right foot well wide but the ball hit their player and bounced back to him and then his miss kicked it with his left foot wide.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on December 02, 2021, 12:11:13 AM
In fairness I think even Jake would suggest he could and probably should have bagged at least three so far this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on December 02, 2021, 08:22:19 AM
He’s currently our player of the season according to the polls we do…
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 02, 2021, 08:23:23 AM
He’s currently our player of the season according to the polls we do…

 :-X

Sad indictment of the eyesight of our members right there.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on December 02, 2021, 11:42:57 AM
:-X

Sad indictment of the eyesight of our members right there.

On the other hand.......... ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on December 02, 2021, 11:57:06 AM
He’s currently our player of the season according to the polls we do…

Deservedly man of the match from a poll of two with Matt Phillips the only other potential candidate from memory. How many more times has he been voted man of the match then?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on December 02, 2021, 12:06:08 PM
I don’t think he’s had a single shot on target this season

You keep saying this and it's massively untrue.  I've even pointed it out in the match day threads.  This is just selective memory.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on December 02, 2021, 12:14:34 PM
You keep saying this and it's massively untrue.  I've even pointed it out in the match day threads.  This is just selective memory.

Four on target out of twenty apparently. Nine blocked. Seven off target. Expected goals 2.52. Actual goals nowt.

https://www.infogol.net/en/player/jake-livermore/1052

(No idea how reliable that site is though).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on December 02, 2021, 12:27:11 PM
Four on target out of twenty apparently. Nine blocked. Seven off target. Expected goals 2.52. Actual goals nowt.

https://www.infogol.net/en/player/jake-livermore/1052

(No idea how reliable that site is though).
there stats are wrong red cards is zero when it should be two so how can you trust rest of figures?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on December 02, 2021, 12:36:54 PM
You keep saying this and it's massively untrue.  I've even pointed it out in the match day threads.  This is just selective memory.

Can you point back to a single shot on target from him in any league game this season? The closest he got was an open goal away at Blackburn in which he hit the bar from six yards out and then Mowatt then scored a screamer in the same phase of play from the edge of the box - sums up the difference.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on December 02, 2021, 12:43:14 PM
He’s currently our player of the season according to the polls we do…

What polls are these?

I'm not a Jake basher but he's nowhere near player of the season.

O'Shea was easily on top before he got injured and it was only a few games so he can't be ahead of the field now.

Townsend has to be in front. Matt Clarke next up.

I'd be surprised if many people have a different view. It seems clear to me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on December 02, 2021, 12:48:35 PM
What polls are these?

I'm not a Jake basher but he's nowhere near player of the season.

O'Shea was easily on top before he got injured and it was only a few games so he can't be ahead of the field now.

Townsend has to be in front. Matt Clarke next up.

I'd be surprised if many people have a different view. It seems clear to me.

I would agree with you: Townsend/Clarke/Johnstone/Mowatt.. in that order for me. It still saddens me though when some see Jake as the root of all evil when clearly he is not. I would hope that the last 2 games (when he has not played) have somewhat proved that point.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on December 02, 2021, 01:09:37 PM
there stats are wrong red cards is zero when it should be two so how can you trust rest of figures?

I never stated those figures should be trusted nor that it was a reliable source of information. At any point.

If you scroll down to the collection of letters in brackets beneath the link, you could have read the following words:

(No idea how reliable that site is though)  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on December 02, 2021, 03:53:07 PM
I would agree with you: Townsend/Clarke/Johnstone/Mowatt.. in that order for me. It still saddens me though when some see Jake as the root of all evil when clearly he is not. I would hope that the last 2 games (when he has not played) have somewhat proved that point.

I would describe serial killers and dictators as the root of all evil. Livermore a close third - just kidding.

I still think we have looked better in the past couple of games without Livermore, only our inability to hit a barn door in front of goal that has cost us really. We certainly haven't missed his defensive attributes (two clean sheets without him) or attacking qualities (doesn't have any).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on December 02, 2021, 06:12:41 PM
I would describe serial killers and dictators as the root of all evil. Livermore a close third - just kidding.

I still think we have looked better in the past couple of games without Livermore, only our inability to hit a barn door in front of goal that has cost us really. We certainly haven't missed his defensive attributes (two clean sheets without him) or attacking qualities (doesn't have any).

That's correct, we've looked a slightly more cohesive unit without Livermore.

Any notion of a high press goes out of the window with the likes of Livermore, just not quick enough over 90 minutes play.

I'm surprised Ismael has persisted with Livermore for so long!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on December 02, 2021, 10:53:31 PM
That's correct, we've looked a slightly more cohesive unit without Livermore.

Any notion of a high press goes out of the window with the likes of Livermore, just not quick enough over 90 minutes play.

I'm surprised Ismael has persisted with Livermore for so long!
He is almost as persitant as you are.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on December 05, 2021, 06:42:14 PM
He is almost as persitant as you are.

Gardner-Hickman yesterday and Molumby before that really has shown up the limitations of Livermore.   If you want to play in a low defensive block, Livermore is your man.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 02, 2022, 10:33:44 AM
Jake is looking for a 4 1/2 year contract ITK ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 02, 2022, 10:57:26 AM
Jake is looking for a 4 1/2 year contract ITK ;)

Nice one buddy😎
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 02, 2022, 11:32:40 AM
Jake is looking for a 4 1/2 year contract ITK ;)

And I am looking for a night in a hotel room with Pixie Lott, looks like we will both be disappointed
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on January 02, 2022, 11:46:42 AM
And I am looking for a night in a hotel room with Pixie Lott, looks like we will both be disappointed

Miss Lott especially no doubt :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on January 02, 2022, 12:23:09 PM
Jake is looking for a 4 1/2 year contract ITK ;)
Needs to ask Dike he's got one in his ass pocket  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 02, 2022, 04:20:08 PM
Lost possession 17 times and 2 tackles.  Complete waste of time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 02, 2022, 04:24:14 PM
Not very good today but liked by Val so will play on, especially as his other player has been sent off again.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on January 02, 2022, 04:25:29 PM
It's a shame we can't play him in the position he is most suited to
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on January 02, 2022, 04:26:04 PM
It's a shame we can't play him in the position he is most suited to

The bench?  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 02, 2022, 04:26:28 PM
It's a shame we can't play him in the position he is most suited to

This feels like there is a punchline waiting  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 02, 2022, 04:27:36 PM
Not very good today but liked by Val so will play on, especially as his other player has been sent off again.

He is like a large useless lump of coal. Too immobile, old and slow to get around the pitch and unable to influence play (positively) on or off the ball. He is definitely a drag on the team and any promotion ambitions we have.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 02, 2022, 04:30:23 PM
He is like a large useless lump of coal. Too immobile, old and slow to get around the pitch and unable to influence play (positively) on or off the ball. He is definitely a drag on the team and any promotion ambitions we have.

Makes you wonder why Val picks him
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on January 02, 2022, 04:44:40 PM
He is like a large useless lump of coal. Too immobile, old and slow to get around the pitch and unable to influence play (positively) on or off the ball. He is definitely a drag on the team and any promotion ambitions we have.
A lump of coal is useful. ☺️
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on January 02, 2022, 04:52:35 PM
This feels like there is a punchline waiting  ;D
Prop forward.  😁
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 02, 2022, 04:54:59 PM
Makes you wonder why Val picks him

And Slav and Moore and Pulis...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 02, 2022, 05:08:52 PM
And Slav and Moore and Pulis...

Very true only Sam had the brains to come in and drop him quick smart.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 02, 2022, 05:12:06 PM
Very true only Sam had the brains to come in and drop him quick smart.

The irony is that but for our relegation he wouldn't be in the team, he is one of those players that benefits from the club being in the second tier. Similar story with a few others as well. I don't have a problem with his work rate or attitude and it's not his fault he keeps getting picked, but it's very frustrating to watch him play, every time he gets the ball I'm usually wincing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on January 02, 2022, 05:12:13 PM
Must have play me option in contract only reason I can see that he gets picked week in week out, weakest link in midfield by along way
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 02, 2022, 05:13:40 PM
The irony is that but for our relegation he wouldn't be in the team, he is one of those players that benefits from the club being in the second tier. Similar story with a few others as well. I don't have a problem with his work rate or attitude and it's not his fault he keeps getting picked, but it's very frustrating to watch him play, every time he gets the ball I'm usually wincing.

I can't disagree with any of this
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on January 02, 2022, 05:14:15 PM
Never had much of a issue with Jake , still believe he could do a job with three in the middle but two just like at times with Bilic is killing him . Looks so slow now .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on January 02, 2022, 05:27:04 PM
He takes ages to get the ball under control and pick out a player to pass to.  By which time the momentum has been lost. And the pass more often than not is overhit or inaccurate. His best point is that he's a leader figure and team player.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 02, 2022, 05:31:31 PM
Was much better than Mowatt today (even ignoring the Red card).  He threaded a couple of great balls through that caused problems for Cardiff and didn't really do much wrong. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on January 02, 2022, 05:48:26 PM
Didn't see Livermore do too much wrong today, not 'super' but pretty solid game.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on January 02, 2022, 05:52:34 PM
Didn't see Livermore do too much wrong today, not 'super' but pretty solid game.
Agreed but for me he's one who struggles in  this system , looks blown after so long hence the regular yellow cards.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OverLandAndSea on January 02, 2022, 05:55:36 PM
I counted at one point and he was trying to compete on his own with five Cardiff players in there.

Mowatt was off hiding and the chance of any other help was an extra centre half.

Central mid in this set up is a hiding to nothing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 02, 2022, 08:13:14 PM
Was much better than Mowatt today (even ignoring the Red card).  He threaded a couple of great balls through that caused problems for Cardiff and didn't really do much wrong.
Perfect analysis mate
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 02, 2022, 10:59:53 PM
He was awful, completely off the pace.  When you think in the past we've had Pereira, Koren, Morrsion, Koumas, Texeira playera of that ilk.

He is a massive part of the problem, passing inaccurate and slow.

He lost possession 17 times today!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 02, 2022, 11:04:40 PM
He was awful, completely off the pace.  When you think in the past we've had Pereira, Koren, Morrsion, Koumas, Texeira playera of that ilk.

He is a massive part of the problem, passing inaccurate and slow.

He lost possession 17 times today!

No he wasn’t. Played much better than Mowatt. Were  you at the game? I was, he never hid and tried to make things happen.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 02, 2022, 11:11:45 PM
He can't be the scapegoat all the time, had a better game than Mowatt who has been poor for quite a while. It's the set up that's all wrong we need another body in midfield.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on January 02, 2022, 11:13:18 PM
No he wasn’t. Played much better than Mowatt. Were  you at the game? I was, he never hid and tried to make things happen.
Nobody's doubting that he tries to make things happen, and to be fair he has played a couple of decent through balls today and v Barnsley. But too often his basic ball re-cycling skills are too slow and even clumsy. Alot of his passes are hit at an awkward height. Mowatt is normally miles better at this, although today he wasn't at his best. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on January 02, 2022, 11:17:26 PM
He’s just not good enough, the quality isn’t there. He’s cumbersome, his passing is terrible and he doesn’t excel at anything. Put him in the bin now!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: CL3MO on January 02, 2022, 11:19:01 PM
Didn't see Livermore do too much wrong today, not 'super' but pretty solid game.

He didn’t do too much wrong. Problem is - and it’s a huge one - is that he’s awful in a team with possession. If we only play with 2 CMs, you’re asking him to be technically very good, which he isn’t.

Ismael likes him because he’d be great in a Barnsley team with 35% of the ball last year.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 03, 2022, 12:31:48 AM
He was awful, completely off the pace.  When you think in the past we've had Pereira, Koren, Morrsion, Koumas, Texeira playera of that ilk.

He is a massive part of the problem, passing inaccurate and slow.

He lost possession 17 times today!

Not one of Pereira, Koren, Morrsion, Koumas, Texeira would play in CM for Val.  Imagine how much work the other CM would have to be getting through! We get out numbered in the middle enough as it is without having someone who rarely tracks back in there.  That's why I don't get the comparisons, Livermore (nor Mowatt) have ever been one of those kind of midfielders.  If you can find someone who is as defensive as Livermore but also as skillful as Pereira then they won't be playing for a Championship side.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on January 03, 2022, 12:46:58 AM
I thought Livermore was half decent in one of our recent games (I can’t remember if it was Barnsley or Derby), working hard, trying to create things and probably our best player in that first half. As others have said though, he just doesn’t have enough to his game to justify the faith several managers have had in him.

He has been here for a number of years now and none of them (bar 3-4 months under Bilic) have been successful. He is the only remaining common denominator, playing in the middle of the park. He isn’t quite a defensive anchor but neither is he a true box to box type midfielder and he certainly isn’t a playmaker. He is a 6/10 performer and yet for some reason every manager apart from Allardyce had fell under his spell. He must have some superficial leadership skills behind the scenes that convince managers of his worth, because I’m confident there are far better options out there even in our price range.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 03, 2022, 12:49:11 AM
Not one of Pereira, Koren, Morrsion, Koumas, Texeira would play in CM for Val.  Imagine how much work the other CM would have to be getting through! We get out numbered in the middle enough as it is without having someone who rarely tracks back in there.  That's why I don't get the comparisons, Livermore (nor Mowatt) have ever been one of those kind of midfielders.  If you can find someone who is as defensive as Livermore but also as skillful as Pereira then they won't be playing for a Championship side.

Livermore isn't any use defensively either, that's a myth. He's far too old and slow to move around the pitch to screen the defence.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 03, 2022, 05:46:40 AM
Livermore hasnt hidden the last few games. Which i cannot fault him for. Unfortunately he isnt good enough for us and hasnt been for a long time. Hopefully he is left go when his contract ends or better somebody pays us for his service this window
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BomberBaggie on January 03, 2022, 10:15:29 AM
Our Goal is promotion this year, he's been a main part of a team that's struggled to beat lower league opposition and he simply doesn't chip in with any goals or assists. Guy gives his all but he's simply not good enough for a side challenging for top 2 in championship let alone Premier League. His only saving grace is the same can be said about a large number of our squad.

He wasn't the worst on the pitch yesterday but i don't think many can hold their heads up in recent performances.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 03, 2022, 10:21:31 AM
He was excellent after Mowatt’s red card as he seemed to hold everything together when everyone else was losing their heads. He also seemed to be doing the job of two or three men in midfield.

Quite frankly, after that red card we became a total mess.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 03, 2022, 10:40:01 AM
He was excellent after Mowatt’s red card as he seemed to hold everything together when everyone else was losing their heads. He also seemed to be doing the job of two or three men in midfield.

Quite frankly, after that red card we became a total mess.


What about first 20 minutes when it's up to us to impose ourselves on poor relegation opposition?

We simply allowed them to settle into a rigid defensive shape.

The damage was done by the 70th minute, we allowed a poor side to gain control of the match (as we also did v Derby).

No creativity whatsoever and it's the central midfield to blame mostly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 03, 2022, 10:47:09 AM
You’re preaching to the converted, Greg
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on January 03, 2022, 10:56:05 AM
He was better than Mowatt (and many others ) even before the red card yesterday .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 03, 2022, 10:58:12 AM
You’re preaching to the converted, Greg

Liam,

Not yearning for an argument.  However, you said he "held things together" after being down to 10.  It's not really the point, it's up to WBA to force the game from the start, we are not doing it!

Also, I was one of the first to call Livermore out, along with people like Jacko 2000 and Baggie 82.

The situation of picking Livermore is just beyond a joke now and is a damning indictment of the Manager's intellect and knowledge.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on January 03, 2022, 11:17:36 AM
Livermore isn't any use defensively either, that's a myth. He's far too old and slow to move around the pitch to screen the defence.

And yet he's a key part of our press. Numerous occasions he pressured the Cardiff defence who just hit it back to us.

Is it me or has he become more one footed? Doesn't trust his left foot at all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on January 03, 2022, 11:27:46 AM
Liam,

Not yearning for an argument.  However, you said he "held things together" after being down to 10.  It's not really the point, it's up to WBA to force the game from the start, we are not doing it!

Also, I was one of the first to call Livermore out, along with people like Jacko 2000 and Baggie 82.

The situation of picking Livermore is just beyond a joke now and is a damning indictment of the Manager's intellect and knowledge.

We are never going to control every game completely from the start to finish. There are two teams out there. Cardiff started well, but it didn’t take long for us to take over.  Expecting us to force every game from kick off is silly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 03, 2022, 11:32:46 AM
We are never going to control every game completely from the start to finish. There are two teams out there. Cardiff started well, but it didn’t take long for us to take over.  Expecting us to force every game from kick off is silly.

When are we forcing any game at all from the start?  I don't see it.

Look at the previous championship campaigns.  The only time we failed was losing in the play offs in 06/07 and 18/19.  Both times it was a leaky defence that cost us, not goal scoring.

We are not opening (poor) teams up at all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on January 03, 2022, 11:44:56 AM
I ain't his biggest fan but if anybody is picking the team for the next game based on the performance prior to the Red card yesterday and it came down to either Mowatt or Livermore you'd have to pick Livermore.  It may not be a popular choice but it would be the correct one . Yes there have been many times this season but probably not too many recently when it would be the other way round
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on January 03, 2022, 11:46:32 AM
When are we forcing any game at all from the start?  I don't see it.

Look at the previous championship campaigns.  The only time we failed was losing in the play offs in 06/07 and 18/19.  Both times it was a leaky defence that cost us, not goal scoring.

We are not opening (poor) teams up at all.

Previously we have gone up twice at the first time of asking, and failed twice.  I’m not sure how much they tell us about this time around, particularly if you think those failings were down to a leaky defence, which we don’t have at present.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on January 03, 2022, 11:49:39 AM
We are desperate for a central midfielder who can control a game. Someone like Harrison Reed would be ideal. Our current crop run around a lot but lack any real quality.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ashdoy on January 03, 2022, 11:59:53 AM
This bloke cost us £10m.

Huge wages throughout (does somebody want to price how much this bloke has cost us over the years) for an extremely low return.

Not sure what this bloke has done for us, can name maybe 5 games where he has been immense, other than that an extremely poor player who has somehow built a decent career.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 03, 2022, 12:14:45 PM
When are we forcing any game at all from the start?  I don't see it.

Look at the previous championship campaigns.  The only time we failed was losing in the play offs in 06/07 and 18/19.  Both times it was a leaky defence that cost us, not goal scoring.

We are not opening (poor) teams up at all.

Now this I agree with. I still fail to see why you pin all of the blame for this on JL. I attended the game yesterday and repeat that he was better than Mowatt. You have praised Molumby in the past. He did nothing when he came on and has not really impressed at all. The reality is we do not have a player on the books who can control that engine room. I remain hopeful that we will recruit. Let’s see.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 03, 2022, 12:16:18 PM
We are desperate for a central midfielder who can control a game. Someone like Harrison Reed would be ideal. Our current crop run around a lot but lack any real quality.

I’ve wanted him up here ever since he controlled the game for Blackburn some years ago.

Tenacious, mobile, good footballer and entirely suited to this football we’re currently playing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Lara Crofts Butler on January 03, 2022, 12:43:28 PM
Jake has been at the club for a very long time and it's again nothing personal to him but I have rarely ever seen what it is he offers to the squad.  I don't feel he is positive going forward, he doesn't get many assists, he's scored 7 goals in over 150 appearances, I don't see any evidence of superior work-rate to other midfielders and I frankly am at a loss as to how/why consecutive managers seem to have him as the first name on the teamsheet.  If we have any illusions of being a regular Premier League side again, I don't think anyone would ever rush to sign in from one of those clubs.

I would much sooner develop a youngster and suffer a period of their adjustment than persist with Jake, it's time to move on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on January 04, 2022, 09:22:31 AM
Jake has been at the club for a very long time and it's again nothing personal to him but I have rarely ever seen what it is he offers to the squad.  I don't feel he is positive going forward, he doesn't get many assists, he's scored 7 goals in over 150 appearances, I don't see any evidence of superior work-rate to other midfielders and I frankly am at a loss as to how/why consecutive managers seem to have him as the first name on the teamsheet.  If we have any illusions of being a regular Premier League side again, I don't think anyone would ever rush to sign in from one of those clubs.

I would much sooner develop a youngster and suffer a period of their adjustment than persist with Jake, it's time to move on.

Thats 1 goal for every manager he's had here
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 04, 2022, 09:36:53 AM
Never been a fan. He just slows us down and has no genuine quality but his biggest deficiency is going forward, which is backed up by his embarrassing stats.
He's not even a decent DM because his heading and tackling are not good enough. The problem we have is that, as long as he has been here, on big wages, we have never properly looked for a replacement, just someone to back up his many suspensions.

If we truly want to move on we need much better in midfield, especially going forward.

Why we need a lumbering DM in front of the current back 5 is beyond me anyway. Someone with genuine quality, who can pick a pass and unlock a defence would go a long way to solving a lot of our issues.
Guess it will be the next manager who will have to come to that conclusion, however, as Val seems to think the sun shines out of his arris.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 04, 2022, 10:39:12 AM
In fairness to Jake Livermore he unlocked the Derby defence with a cracking through ball to Robinson who then failed to convert.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on January 04, 2022, 12:14:52 PM
In fairness to Jake Livermore he unlocked the Derby defence with a cracking through ball to Robinson who then failed to convert.

He took about 5 touches to get the ball onto his right foot though. The pass was on earlier but he dallied about with it.

Think it might have been him that played the ball to Grady when he went down Vs Cardiff
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 04, 2022, 01:46:14 PM
He took about 5 touches to get the ball onto his right foot though. The pass was on earlier but he dallied about with it.

Think it might have been him that played the ball to Grady when he went down Vs Cardiff

It was still a very presentable chance regardless. Talking of extra touches I can't imagine how many more chances we'd have had this season if Robinson could make his mind up about what he's doing a bit quicker.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on January 08, 2022, 07:50:52 PM
Whether you like, dislike or are indifferent about Jake, like most people, he has a very generous, kind and human side to him


Joseph Masi tweeted

Understand Jake Livermore has given his box today to seven-year-old Baggies' fan Violet who has been diagnosed with Acute Lymphoblast Leukaemia and will be having chemotherapy until 2023. You can read more about her story here: gofundme.com/f/making-viole…
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 08, 2022, 07:57:15 PM
Fair play Jake, a fantastic gesture.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Groovephil on January 08, 2022, 08:09:16 PM
Whether you like, dislike or are indifferent about Jake, like most people, he has a very generous, kind and human side to him


Joseph Masi tweeted

Understand Jake Livermore has given his box today to seven-year-old Baggies' fan Violet who has been diagnosed with Acute Lymphoblast Leukaemia and will be having chemotherapy until 2023. You can read more about her story here: gofundme.com/f/making-viole…


Great gesture.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on January 08, 2022, 08:32:01 PM
Well done Jake, top man!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 08, 2022, 08:48:02 PM
Thought he had a good game today. Looks better with TGH nezt to him. As did mowatt. Which tells me that TGH needs to play weekly to get best out of our other midfielders
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Lara Crofts Butler on January 09, 2022, 03:33:38 PM
Yes I also thought he had a pretty good game against Brighton. I have made no secret that I don’t view him as a premier league footballer but that was a good performance in a tough situation playing with an academy player against a good premier league side. Credit where due
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on January 09, 2022, 04:32:01 PM
Whether you like, dislike or are indifferent about Jake, like most people, he has a very generous, kind and human side to him


Joseph Masi tweeted

Understand Jake Livermore has given his box today to seven-year-old Baggies' fan Violet who has been diagnosed with Acute Lymphoblast Leukaemia and will be having chemotherapy until 2023. You can read more about her story here: gofundme.com/f/making-viole…
seems to be a really nice lad so we’ll done Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on January 09, 2022, 04:46:21 PM
I don't like him, I think we should have got shot 3 years ago. But he had a good game a few weeks ago on the right of a back three, he was decent yesterday (untl the red saw Brighton take control), and that's a good gesture on his part.

I'd still wave him goodbye the end of the season though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: clinton44 on January 09, 2022, 05:17:46 PM
Don't like him. Will wave a flag when he goes.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on January 09, 2022, 05:55:13 PM
After reading Vals comment regarding wanting us to be a side out of possession then I can see Jake sticking around for some time. He’s just a very poor footballer IMO. Having met him once he does come across as a really top bloke.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 09, 2022, 07:31:55 PM
Not sure why people say they don’t like him. Or am I misunderstanding what is meant by the phrase? I have nothing against him and, as others have said, he seems a really nice guy. Always give his all when playing too. Best years are behind him now though for sure.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on January 09, 2022, 08:06:43 PM
Can't understand people saying they don't like him. We don't know him.
He's probably a very kind and generous person as the link above would allude to.
Me?
I don't like or dislike him, he just isn't the type of footballer that would be my choice to play for this club.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 10, 2022, 11:21:17 AM
After reading Vals comment regarding wanting us to be a side out of possession then I can see Jake sticking around for some time. He’s just a very poor footballer IMO. Having met him once he does come across as a really top bloke.

Did you tackle him over his poor technique when you had the opportunity or did you take a pass on that one  ;D ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on January 10, 2022, 12:44:36 PM
Players have personal boxes?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jeremy Roland Peace on January 10, 2022, 01:12:35 PM
Players have personal boxes?

Livermore and Bartley do. they either pay for them or they are included in contracts.

Brunt used to have one in the corner of the east stand.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on January 10, 2022, 05:53:53 PM
Proved to me he's a caring guy with giving his private box to a young kid last week
Don't forget he's been through difficult times in his personnel family life.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 10, 2022, 06:07:30 PM
Whether ot not he is a nice guy aint the point its whether or not he should be in our midfield or a wba player come summer.

Personally i think we should move on summer but VI likes him so whats the odds on an extension.

Having said that the last few games he has been one of our better players
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on January 10, 2022, 06:29:07 PM
Did you tackle him over his poor technique when you had the opportunity or did you take a pass on that one  ;D ?

Passed on that one but I do remember telling Carlton Palmer he was rubbish at a Junior Baggie event once.  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 15, 2022, 06:49:23 PM
Once again the Manager picked Livermore in CM, Furlong CB and Gardner Hickman RB. 

Surely the better choice would've been Livermore CB, Furlong RB, Gardner Hickman CM.

As far back as September i was stating nothing was created centrally.

Ismael is just not very sharp IMO.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on January 15, 2022, 08:02:50 PM
Offers nothing to the team so don’t understand why he gets a starting berth week in week out.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Aztech on January 15, 2022, 08:08:36 PM
Offers nothing to the team so don’t understand why he gets a starting berth week in week out.

Livermore is poor, however the same could be said of numerous players.
Our squad isn’t good enough to replace them all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 15, 2022, 08:31:46 PM
Don't know what the xg is but he must have broken the world record, this season, for balls kicked over his own head.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 15, 2022, 08:34:55 PM
Proved to me he's a caring guy with giving his private box to a young kid last week
Don't forget he's been through difficult times in his personnel family life.
David Jason seems a nice bloke,what size boots does he need?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on January 16, 2022, 12:22:00 PM
Wonder exactly where our fools are and our horses, don't tell me let me guess!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on January 16, 2022, 02:48:29 PM
Wonder exactly where our fools are and our horses, don't tell me let me guess!
Guess away.
We can laud how nice players are, but is that really what we sign them for?
Many people think zlatan is a bit rogue, Ronaldo seems cocky,but they are winners .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 16, 2022, 03:12:13 PM
Once again the Manager picked Livermore in CM, Furlong CB and Gardner Hickman RB. 

Surely the better choice would've been Livermore CB, Furlong RB, Gardner Hickman CM.

As far back as September i was stating nothing was created centrally.

Ismael is just not very sharp IMO.

Agree with your preference Gregg, I think that would have suited us better yesterday, getting TGH in midfield should be a priority in my opinion.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 16, 2022, 08:09:37 PM
Once again the Manager picked Livermore in CM, Furlong CB and Gardner Hickman RB. 

Surely the better choice would've been Livermore CB, Furlong RB, Gardner Hickman CM.

As far back as September i was stating nothing was created centrally.

Ismael is just not very sharp IMO.

Correct played all 3 in wrong spots.
Central midfield was horrific yesterday however i think Livermore was better than mulumby who just seemed to hoof the ball whenever he got it.

Both spent the entire second half chasing balls kicked over their heads
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 19, 2022, 08:01:31 AM
1 year extension confirmed
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on January 19, 2022, 08:02:15 AM
You will all be glad to know he has triggered a 1 yr contract extension he will be here next season  >:(
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 19, 2022, 08:07:07 AM
I'm not anti Livermore and know he's nowhere near as bad as some paint him but it's a poor decision, we needed to let him go and replace with younger/better at the end of the season.

Hopefully in the next window we can get in a better option and Livermore will be an off the bench option, like Brunt was when he was nearing the end of his time with us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mooncat on January 19, 2022, 08:28:21 AM
Also important to factor in, it could just be that we use that to get some money for him when moving him on rather than (another) free
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 08:30:10 AM
What on earth  :o
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 08:31:43 AM
Also important to factor in, it could just be that we use that to get some money for him when moving him on rather than (another) free

Why would he leave?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on January 19, 2022, 08:34:21 AM
Re-signing the likes of Phillips and Livermore just sums the club up at the moment. What do we have to do to get rid of aging, serial mediocrity like these two?

If I freeze my body when I die and come back to life in 150 years time these two will probably still be at the club.

Will we ever learn?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on January 19, 2022, 08:49:46 AM
Unless I'm getting it all wrong it's a clause that JL has triggered not the club.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2022/01/19/west-brom-captain-jake-livermore-triggers-one-year-contract-extension/
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 19, 2022, 08:49:57 AM
Terrible decision, he has no sell on value so this means he'll hang around and probably still be first name on the team sheet.
We won't truly improve until we start moving on these past their sell by, bang average performers.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on January 19, 2022, 08:50:31 AM
The story behind the one year extension

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2022/01/19/west-brom-captain-jake-livermore-triggers-one-year-contract-extension/
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 08:53:03 AM
Who the hell gives a midfielder coming to the end of his career a 1 year extension on top of the 4 guaranteed???

We have some buffoons running this club.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baltic on January 19, 2022, 08:54:28 AM
Re-signing the likes of Phillips and Livermore just sums the club up at the moment. What do we have to do to get rid of aging, serial mediocrity like these two?

If I freeze my body when I die and come back to life in 150 years time these two will probably still be at the club.

Will we ever learn?

Could not agree more.  This is typical of a club in decline.  Offering long-term contracts to players who have no upside value, absorb massive wages and have a limited positive input to the team.  I know its a one year extension for Livermore, but the previous 4 years was already ridiculous (as was the fee).

In Val's formation (2 midfielders) you cannot afford midfielders who can only defend.  They have to be creative too, otherwise you don't create chances and hence you don't score.... sound familiar?

I think he should be a back up CB until his contract expires. I'd try to move him out on a free in the summer but I doubt we'll get any takers.   What a waste of resources!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 08:56:03 AM
Assuming he's extended on his current terms. No one will offer him what we have.

Any chance to not have to replace someone and this club will take it regardless of what value the player will offer the club down the road.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on January 19, 2022, 08:58:29 AM
Unless I'm getting it all wrong it's a clause that JL has triggered not the club.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2022/01/19/west-brom-captain-jake-livermore-triggers-one-year-contract-extension/

He shouldn't have had an option to trigger in the first place.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on January 19, 2022, 09:00:05 AM
Unless I'm getting it all wrong it's a clause that JL has triggered not the club.
https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2022/01/19/west-brom-captain-jake-livermore-triggers-one-year-contract-extension/

Apparently, it's a clause in his contract that's automatically triggered based on number of appearances, which he passed some time ago.
Must be a slow news day.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on January 19, 2022, 09:01:38 AM
If JL had an appearance based clause in his contract then that’s not really the current hierarchy’s fault. That’s on previous regimes. I imagine Dowling and the manager in situ that who signed him. Unless of course people think VI should have just bombed him out completely all season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on January 19, 2022, 09:02:22 AM
He shouldn't have had an option to trigger in the first place.
Agreed I only hope he becomes an expensive bench-warmer next season and doesn't stop us from replacing him in the team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 09:09:45 AM
If JL had an appearance based clause in his contract then that’s not really the current hierarchy’s fault. That’s on previous regimes. I imagine Dowling and the manager in situ that who signed him. Unless of course people think VI should have just bombed him out completely all season.

Yeah it's a Dowling special. He was appointed SEP 2018 and deal given to JL in December 2018 when JL was already 29.

Insane.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on January 19, 2022, 09:12:00 AM
Yeah it's a Dowling special. He was appointed SEP 2018 and deal given to JL in December 2018 when JL was already 29.

Insane.

Insane indeed.

We can blame the old regime for Livermore but it's the new regime that gave Phillips a new contract.

I repeat - will we ever learn? Next up Bartley I expect or maybe Sawyers.

If Sawyers and Livermore are ambling about in our midfield next season whichever manager is in charge I will not rest until he's gone.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 19, 2022, 09:12:21 AM
Yeah it's a Dowling special. He was appointed SEP 2018 and deal given to JL in December 2018 when JL was already 29.

Insane.

Dowling and Darren Moore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 09:15:40 AM
Dowling and Darren Moore.

Shame on them both.

At 29 I could see a 2 year deal not a 4+1.

Insane indeed.

We can blame the old regime for Livermore but it's the new regime that gave Phillips a new contract.

I repeat - will we ever learn? Next up Bartley I expect.

Lai is a terrible owner but refusing to let go of old payers is something that has been going on for decades here. It's so weird.

Hasn't Bartley just signed an extension? Or do you mean another one.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on January 19, 2022, 09:17:17 AM
Shame on them both.

At 29 I could see a 2 year deal not a 4+1.

Lai is a terrible owner but refusing to let go of old payers is something that has been going on for decades here. It's so weird.

Hasn't Bartley just signed an extension? Or do you mean another one.

He's out of contract in 2023 I believe.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 09:23:22 AM
He's out of contract in 2023 I believe.

That's where it should end as well but he'd 'only' be 32 in the boards eyes so probably get himself a few more years.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 09:28:22 AM
To be honest I woke up feeling like I couldn't be bothered with anything today but the news in this thread got my blood pumping for a bit  ;D

Got to love the Albion.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 19, 2022, 09:28:59 AM
This place is going up in flames when they announce Jake's testimonial. I can imagine a certain former poster in the St Helen's area is currently birthing multiple kittens......  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on January 19, 2022, 09:33:10 AM
This place is going up in flames when they announce Jake's testimonial. I can imagine a certain former poster in the St Helen's area is currently birthing multiple kittens......  ;D .

He'd offer Brunt a new deal given the opportunity.  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 09:35:10 AM
This place is going up in flames when they announce Jake's testimonial. I can imagine a certain former poster in the St Helen's area is currently birthing multiple kittens......  ;D .

I want to laugh but for the Albion it's not beyond the realm of possibility.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on January 19, 2022, 09:40:40 AM
Hey zippy&bungle, ive never suggested that we sign 'nice people' players and never would. The only possible benefit for his 1year extension is as cover at cb, no other position at all.
Hes not a fool is he?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 19, 2022, 10:11:09 AM
Who the hell gives a midfielder coming to the end of his career a 1 year extension on top of the 4 guaranteed???

We have some buffoons running this club.
Probably negotiating a new 3 year contract as we speak.
I think they see him like the ravens at the Tower of London. If they let him leave the entire ground will crumble to dust.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 10:14:14 AM
Probably negotiating a new 3 year contract as we speak.
I think they see him like the ravens at the Tower of London. If they let him leave the entire ground will crumble to dust.

I just can't understand the logic behind it. Not Jakes fault of course, i bet he couldn't believe his luck.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 19, 2022, 10:22:36 AM
Mr 100% every game. Not very good like ALL our players it seems, but always meets the absolute minimum criteria of giving his best. Many of our players should be bloody ashamed to collect their wages each week for their pathetic efforts.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 19, 2022, 10:48:42 AM
Another woeful player that I will have to endure for a further season at the very least  :-X

I am finding myself extremely close to giving up on my club which is quite frightening. There is just nothing I like about it currently, behind the scenes, on the pitch, it is just completely rotten.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 19, 2022, 10:54:04 AM
Another woeful player that I will have to endure for a further season at the very least  :-X

I am finding myself extremely close to giving up on my club which is quite frightening. There is just nothing I like about it currently, behind the scenes, on the pitch, it is just completely rotten.


I find myself falling out of love with it as well. I will always support them but my love is fading year by year since Lai took over.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bosh on January 19, 2022, 11:12:47 AM
Phew. I was dreading him leaving for free this summer. At least now there will be the forthcoming bidding war from all the big sides for his services.  And that's one place for our midfield two sorted for the next 18 months. Heaven help us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 19, 2022, 11:34:33 AM
If we regularly play Livermore next season, we'll be fighting relegation from the Championship.

I went to the U23s Monday night, and there's players who could do better.

Livermore is no longer a even a good Championship player.

What an utter shambles.

WBA is falling apart at the seams.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on January 19, 2022, 12:01:11 PM
Pulis signed Jake in 2017 and it was, probably, during Darren Moore's watch that the new contract was issued and its not unusual for Albion to a have an extension clause, of some description, written into the deal to safeguard an asset whether we think he is an asset or not
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on January 19, 2022, 12:08:51 PM
If JL had an appearance based clause in his contract then that’s not really the current hierarchy’s fault. That’s on previous regimes. I imagine Dowling and the manager in situ that who signed him. Unless of course people think VI should have just bombed him out completely all season.

exactly, no good slagging off the incumbents for the idiocy of their predecessors
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on January 19, 2022, 12:12:16 PM
Depending on the terms of the contract, with which I'm not familiar, if the extension was able to be activated by the player, you can hardly blame Jake, if however it was in the club's favour, you do wonder why club's do this with  30+ year olds inmost cases!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 19, 2022, 12:25:02 PM
This is down to Ismael.  The 1 year extension is only triggered by a set no. of appearances.

Livermore is obviously "a big cheese" within the club.

Fair play, Allardyce stood up to him last season.  Maybe a lack of ambition, and retaining the likes of Livermore, dissuaded Allardyce from re-signing last Summer?

There are a number of midfielders better than Livermore at the club, but Ismael can't see it.

Hasn't Ismael said that if he's fit he plays?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on January 19, 2022, 12:40:51 PM
This is down to Ismael.  The 1 year extension is only triggered by a set no. of appearances.

Livermore is obviously "a big cheese" within the club.

Fair play, Allardyce stood up to him last season.  Maybe a lack of ambition, and retaining the likes of Livermore, dissuaded Allardyce from re-signing last Summer?

There are a number of midfielders better than Livermore at the club, but Ismael can't see it.

Hasn't Ismael said that if he's fit he plays?

And you know this how?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on January 19, 2022, 12:42:59 PM
And you know this how?

He read it in the express and dingle article

But the Express & Star understands Livermore has triggered a 12-month extension – which was activated after he made a set number of appearances
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on January 19, 2022, 12:43:40 PM
He read it in the express and dingle article

But the Express & Star understands Livermore has triggered a 12-month extension – which was activated after he made a set number of appearances

Fair enough. That's a shame.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on January 19, 2022, 12:54:30 PM
This is down to Ismael.  The 1 year extension is only triggered by a set no. of appearances.

Livermore is obviously "a big cheese" within the club.

Fair play, Allardyce stood up to him last season.  Maybe a lack of ambition, and retaining the likes of Livermore, dissuaded Allardyce from re-signing last Summer?

There are a number of midfielders better than Livermore at the club, but Ismael can't see it.

Hasn't Ismael said that if he's fit he plays?
I find this to be disingenuous it states in the paper Livermore passed the set number of games months ago blaming this on VI is really streching it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 19, 2022, 01:02:37 PM
I find this to be disingenuous it states in the paper Livermore passed the set number of games months ago blaming this on VI is really streching it.

Ismael has been picking Livermore since August 2021,  no one else's fault is it?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on January 19, 2022, 01:19:27 PM
Ismael has been picking Livermore since August 2021,  no one else's fault is it?
So you're a new manager at a club and you decide in the first week you won't be picking the captain anymore?
Also due to injuries and suspensions, you still wouldn't use him and play someone else am I understanding you correctly?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 19, 2022, 01:26:13 PM
Apparently, it's a clause in his contract that's automatically triggered based on number of appearances, which he passed some time ago.
Must be a slow news day.

Thats exactly what it is. So the comments such as 'terrible decision' are inaccurate. It was part of his last deal. As someone has posted, it could be a way to ensure we at least get some money if and when he leaves.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on January 19, 2022, 01:29:50 PM
So you're a new manager at a club and you decide in the first week you won't be picking the captain anymore?
Also due to injuries and suspensions, you still wouldn't use him and play someone else am I understanding you correctly?

I think that is exactly what he is saying.

The papers say he triggered it a while ago, so its likely the clause only required 10 or 15 appearances. Even with all of Livermore's limitations, I find it hard to imagine he wouldnt have hit that under the majority of managers. Can't see how anyone can blame VI for this, unless they are now completely blinded in their dislike of him.



Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 19, 2022, 01:29:54 PM
So you're a new manager at a club and you decide in the first week you won't be picking the captain anymore?
Also due to injuries and suspensions, you still wouldn't use him and play someone else am I understanding you correctly?

Captain is of little relevance, plenty of other senior players could do it.

Apart from starting the season, to allow Molumby to settle into the club, is there any good reason why he should have started 90% of the games?  This has triggered the clause.

Absolute no way do we need him in midfield next season. 

I'm not averse to him playing centre back, but there are multiple options better than him in that position, where we are well blessed.

Allardyce didn't select him, why was he re-integorated?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 19, 2022, 01:30:03 PM
I find this to be disingenuous it states in the paper Livermore passed the set number of games months ago blaming this on VI is really streching it.

Nothing whatsoever to do with the manager. Let's at least read the information. Triggered by Jake having made the agreed number of appearances.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 19, 2022, 01:32:55 PM
Nothing whatsoever to do with the manager. Let's at least read the information. Triggered by Jake having made the agreed number of appearances.

I didn't realise Livermore was fully part of team selection for matchday?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 19, 2022, 01:37:54 PM
This is down to Ismael.  The 1 year extension is only triggered by a set no. of appearances.

Livermore is obviously "a big cheese" within the club.

Fair play, Allardyce stood up to him last season.  Maybe a lack of ambition, and retaining the likes of Livermore, dissuaded Allardyce from re-signing last Summer?

There are a number of midfielders better than Livermore at the club, but Ismael can't see it.

Hasn't Ismael said that if he's fit he plays?

he did, and then he clarified the statement by saying something like "if fit and showing in training that he is worthy of a spot"...same as every other player.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on January 19, 2022, 01:38:47 PM
Shows a lack of long term ambition. The lack of creativity on midfield, is to my mind, the team's biggest problem at the minute. We should be looking for our next midfielder. Mulumby is really just a younger version. How does Ian Pearce spend his time?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on January 19, 2022, 01:42:16 PM
Captain is of little relevance, plenty of other senior players could do it.

Apart from starting the season, to allow Molumby to settle into the club, is there any good reason why he should have started 90% of the games?  This has triggered the clause.

Absolute no way do we need him in midfield next season. 

I'm not averse to him playing centre back, but there are multiple options better than him in that position, where we are well blessed.

Allardyce didn't select him, why was he re-integorated?
We don't know how many games it took to trigger the clause but the question i'm asking is would you have stopped playing him period?
Mulumby for instance has 15 appearances under his belt so to avoid the clause let's assume he wouldn't have played this season but someone would have had to.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on January 19, 2022, 01:48:21 PM
Thats exactly what it is. So the comments such as 'terrible decision' are inaccurate. It was part of his last deal. As someone has posted, it could be a way to ensure we at least get some money if and when he leaves.

I can't remember if it was on this forum, or I saw it somewhere else, but there was an article recently about the difference between playing sport at elite level & say, semi-professional.

Almost all professional sport is like an iceberg, what you see on the playing field is only the tip of the huge mechanism that goes on to support it.

The owners of WBAFC have a policy to develop young players, with a view to capability for elite level football.
The main legacy of Dan Ashworth was the establishment of the mechanism for our academy.

Even if a first team player's capacity is diminished, doesn't it make sense to retain his services as a mentor for younger players both on & off the pitch?

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggies_24 on January 19, 2022, 01:50:56 PM
I’m not Livermore’s biggest fan & admit he’s a extremely limited footballer with the ball at his feet and has been part of the furniture in the gradual decline from been a established Premier League team to what will most likely be a mid-table championship team. However I do think he’s the scape goat at the moment he’s actually been fairly solid this season. I can think of many others in the team that deserve the pelters Livermore gets. I’d say he’s probably the fittest of them out there he goes for 95 minutes & has been involved in some big moments late on in games (nicking the ball of the QPR lad at home for the winner)

For this division he’s absolutely fine for another year, I’d like to see him eventually be phased out for Mulumby or given a chance at CB. If we somehow miraculously go up then he needs to be moved on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on January 19, 2022, 01:55:30 PM
Captain is of little relevance, plenty of other senior players could do it.

Apart from starting the season, to allow Molumby to settle into the club, is there any good reason why he should have started 90% of the games?  This has triggered the clause.

Absolute no way do we need him in midfield next season. 

I'm not averse to him playing centre back, but there are multiple options better than him in that position, where we are well blessed.

Allardyce didn't select him, why was he re-integorated?


IMO Allardyce wanted to buy a team, VI is happy to try to build one.

I suspect Allardyce knew about the clause & dropped Livermore, so he could use his wages to bring somebody else in.
Very much short term thinking.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on January 19, 2022, 02:06:48 PM

IMO Allardyce wanted to buy a team, VI is happy to try to build one.

I suspect Allardyce knew about the clause & dropped Livermore, so he could use his wages to bring somebody else in.
Very much short term thinking.

Big Sam was never going to stay on so I guess he wasn’t fussed about any clause. I suspect he dropped Livermore as he’s a poor footballer and needed upgrading.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on January 19, 2022, 02:11:30 PM
Big Sam was never going to stay on so I guess he wasn’t fussed about any clause. I suspect he dropped Livermore as he’s a poor footballer and needed upgrading.
Last season we had options in midfield very different from this season not really comparable.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 19, 2022, 02:12:18 PM
I’m not Livermore’s biggest fan & admit he’s a extremely limited footballer with the ball at his feet and has been part of the furniture in the gradual decline from been a established Premier League team to what will most likely be a mid-table championship team. However I do think he’s the scape goat at the moment he’s actually been fairly solid this season. I can think of many others in the team that deserve the pelters Livermore gets. I’d say he’s probably the fittest of them out there he goes for 95 minutes & has been involved in some big moments late on in games (nicking the ball of the QPR lad at home for the winner)

For this division he’s absolutely fine for another year, I’d like to see him eventually be phased out for Mulumby or given a chance at CB. If we somehow miraculously go up then he needs to be moved on.

I disagree with you, as I don't think Livermore would make the midfield of any other Championship team.  Livermore is 6th in terms of the most league minutes for a WBA player (above Mowatt).

We have scored 6 goals in the last 12 league matches. 

He has delivered 1 assist / 0 goals all season.

Are level is now of a bottom half Championship team.  He needs moving on and fast (along with others).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on January 19, 2022, 02:23:39 PM
Last season we had options in midfield very different from this season not really comparable.

We only had options after we’d bought in Maitland Niles and Yokuslu. Sam identified midfield as a weakness and sorted it out straight away. Both should have been replaced in the summer but Val is obviously a big fan of JL.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on January 19, 2022, 03:11:01 PM

IMO Allardyce wanted to buy a team, VI is happy to try to build one.

I suspect Allardyce knew about the clause & dropped Livermore, so he could use his wages to bring somebody else in.
Very much short term thinking.

The clause wouldn't have bothered Allardyce in the slightest.

He was clear he wanted a better player and he went and got one in Yokuslu.

Just like he did with Sawyers, Diangana and co.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: seteefeet on January 19, 2022, 04:06:44 PM
The clause wouldn't have bothered Allardyce in the slightest.

He was clear he wanted a better player and he went and got one in Yokuslu.

Just like he did with Sawyers, Diangana and co.
It's what we need right now, someone with the experience and nous to look at what's going wrong and address it.
Allardyce is known as a negative manager, with a set way of playing, yet I would guess he has played every formation known to man at some point in his career. Like him or loathe him, he is a clever football man and is never slow to adapt or change if things aren't working.


Maybe in a few years Val will have learned and developed but, at the minute, his inflexibility and one track focus on his system, is making him look incredibly naive and a bit foolish.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 19, 2022, 04:34:40 PM
I didn't realise Livermore was fully part of team selection for matchday?

Blimey, you really do have an issue with him dont you? You raved about Molumby a few months ago. The more we see of him the less I like personally. Yes Jake should be moved on but, as already stated elsewhere, he  is not alone and at least gives a damn about the club. I wish this could be said of all of the squad.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 19, 2022, 04:35:28 PM
Ismael has been picking Livermore since August 2021,  no one else's fault is it?

You know, I'm beginning to get the impression you're not very keen on Jake Livermore and Valerian Ismael being part of the fixtures and fittings at West Bromwich Albion.

I'm normally quite sensitive of people's feelings towards players and staff but this has completely passed me by up until now. I'm a little surprised I didn't notice sooner in all honesty...........  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on January 19, 2022, 05:01:03 PM
Good club servant if you ask me, just tries to get on with his job.  If we go up I will be happy to see him in the squad, because I will be happy we've gone up.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 19, 2022, 05:03:11 PM
Blimey, you really do have an issue with him dont you? You raved about Molumby a few months ago. The more we see of him the less I like personally. Yes Jake should be moved on but, as already stated elsewhere, he  is not alone and at least gives a damn about the club. I wish this could be said of all of the squad.

No, I don't like Livermore, as I believe he's taking the club for a ride and using it for his own convenience. However, he doesn't pick himself.  The Manager is the culprit.

Bomber Brown loves WBA but he's not coming back into midfield aged 70.

We are drifting into mediocrity and guys like Livermore are the ones dragging WBA down.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on January 19, 2022, 05:11:37 PM
We have been mediocre for a hell of a long time now Greg. Going to take a while and a lot of cash to get back into the big pool and not get eaten alive. Maybe we need to accept and get used to the idea of being one of the slightly bigger fish in the overcrowded smaller pool, for the time being anyway.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on January 19, 2022, 05:34:38 PM
No, I don't like Livermore, as I believe he's taking the club for a ride and using it for his own convenience. However, he doesn't pick himself.  The Manager is the culprit.

Bomber Brown loves WBA but he's not coming back into midfield aged 70.

We are drifting into mediocrity and guys like Livermore are the ones dragging WBA down.
Livermore is dragging WBA down!? Oh dear, i think you need to look at the owner, the board the set up and the Manager to see who is dragging us down. Nothing to do with Livermore. He is not the best but if he gets picked to play what's he supposed to do refuse to play?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 19, 2022, 06:05:08 PM
Livermore is dragging WBA down!? Oh dear, i think you need to look at the owner, the board the set up and the Manager to see who is dragging us down. Nothing to do with Livermore. He is not the best but if he gets picked to play what's he supposed to do refuse to play?

Believe it or not, the quality of player on the pitch dictates football results.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on January 19, 2022, 06:13:25 PM
Believe it or not, the quality of player on the pitch dictates football results.
Believe it or not i do know how football works mate, but Livermore doesn't pick himself or do you know something i don't?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 19, 2022, 06:37:01 PM
Believe it or not i do know how football works mate, but Livermore doesn't pick himself or do you know something i don't?

It's what has turned me against this Manager.  Livermore is like a dark cloud hovering over the Hawthorns.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on January 19, 2022, 06:47:57 PM
Jake Livermore is by no means the worst selection Val makes week in and week out, which is a subjective view of course.

Every manager, since he signed, with one exception, has regularly selected him.

But if you don’t like him as a player,  you don’t like him and nothing anyone can argue in his favour will pacify his detractors or change their perceptions. So, I wouldn’t even try to involve in discourse on his merits or otherwise etc.

I’m not his greatest fan, but from my observations, I’ve never seen him give less than 100% commitment to the team, which clearly is not enough for some and understandably.

Whilst I have noted others, with more talent and skills go missing on occasion, Pereira springs to mind, personally, I’ve never witnessed Jake hid.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on January 19, 2022, 06:58:02 PM
Jake should have been shown the door with a few others in the summer and it’s ridiculous that he’s been given another year. Nothing against the bloke as a person but he shouldn’t be anywhere near first team offers nothing in attack can’t pass for toffee and hasn’t got the legs for two man midfield.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 19, 2022, 07:25:27 PM
Well theres some more money tied up next year....
However just sending hugil back and trying to get rid of Zohore and snodgrass would give us a load of wriggle room on wages
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bangkokbaggie on January 19, 2022, 07:37:37 PM
Just logged onto the site tonight and although a very poor decision, I'm not the slightest bit surprised. It's not only because he seems to be the manager's favourite but also it's about the culture at the club of extending the contracts of, at best, very ordinary players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bangkokbaggie on January 19, 2022, 07:51:02 PM
Just logged onto the site tonight and although a very poor decision, I'm not the slightest bit surprised. It's not only because he seems to be the manager's favourite but also it's about the culture at the club of extending the contracts of, at best, very ordinary players.
As a follow up, have now read comments on what has triggered this. Perhaps the club should revisit this policy of automatic extension of contracts after a number of appearances.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on January 19, 2022, 08:09:35 PM
No, I don't like Livermore, as I believe he's taking the club for a ride and using it for his own convenience.

What an absolute bugger. It’s almost like it’s his job or something!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 19, 2022, 08:51:44 PM
I don't blame Jake taking the option it's what's best for him. like others have said he's limited and would like a better player in his position. One thing I won't accuse him of is not careing about the club, he gives his all whether we like him or not.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ttree30 on January 19, 2022, 11:34:22 PM
I don't blame Jake taking the option it's what's best for him. like others have said he's limited and would like a better player in his position. One thing I won't accuse him of is not careing about the club, he gives his all whether we like him or not.

He’s just not much good, is he?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on January 20, 2022, 08:48:24 AM
He’s just not much good, is he?

He's OK, he's not a liability and can do a job but at his age, now, he's not going to get any better he's only to decline and he should be nothing more than a squad player now as it is.

His contract should not have given him an option of a further deal at the age of 32 (the club, if any party, shouldve had the option). He shouldve been released in the summer at the end of his contract.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 20, 2022, 12:42:06 PM
He's OK, he's not a liability and can do a job but at his age, now, he's not going to get any better he's only to decline and he should be nothing more than a squad player now as it is.

His contract should not have given him an option of a further deal at the age of 32 (the club, if any party, shouldve had the option). He shouldve been released in the summer at the end of his contract.

A very fair summing up. What I do object to is people blaming the guy for the fact that the clause was in his contract and he has now triggered it. The club agreed to it for goodness sake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on January 20, 2022, 09:49:09 PM
A very fair summing up. What I do object to is people blaming the guy for the fact that the clause was in his contract and he has now triggered it. The club agreed to it for goodness sake.

You're absolutely right you can't blame the player for taking up the option, he's perfectly entitled to.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Aussie Baggie on January 21, 2022, 01:58:20 AM
Just out of curiosity, when did Jake last score a goal for us?

I know that's not what he's primarily in the team for but just wondered.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiebof on January 21, 2022, 06:16:40 AM
Whilst I think Livermore is ok in Ismael's system (arguably suits him as much as any system we've played in his time here apart from under Pulis - although when he came in we were crying out for a box to box midfielder which he is not), I think it is a shame that his salary will be on the books next year. I don't know what his salary is but expect it to be one of our highest, which he certainly isn't worth being. With the potential of Gardner-Hickman in central midfield and a deal agreed to buy Molumby in place, it's quite frustrating.

He can play as part of a back three so that versatility could be a useful asset for the bench perhaps, I'd hope we'll have moved on from him being a started next season.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Groovephil on January 21, 2022, 06:23:21 AM
A top bloke and a great pro, but he was brought at time when our recruitment was shocking and we acquired pretty average players for big money. Can do a job but it shouldn’t be every week and as much as I like the guy he shouldn’t be captain.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 21, 2022, 08:11:00 AM
If we carry on starting Livermore in midfield in the remaining games, we have virtually no chance of promotion.

The way that Fulham play is what we should be looking to model ourselves on. That's quick, skillful, forward thinking players that can open teams up at this level.

Our midfield is simply too static and not proactive.  All we do is allow teams to get in a compact shape to defend against us and hit us on the counter.

Livermore has been afforded so many opportunities.  Chances that have not been so frequent for Molumby, Snodgrass, Gardner-Hickman, Castro, Texeira. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 21, 2022, 08:58:02 AM
Just out of curiosity, when did Jake last score a goal for us?

I know that's not what he's primarily in the team for but just wondered.

The last promotion season. He scored three and got five assists with his last goal coming against Preston in February 2020. No goals or assists last season. No goals and one assist this season. Figures courtesy of Transfermarkt.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on January 21, 2022, 02:30:02 PM
The last promotion season. He scored three and got five assists with his last goal coming against Preston in February 2020. No goals or assists last season. No goals and one assist this season. Figures courtesy of Transfermarkt.
In most jobs with such statistics, you would soon be getting a ' see me' message from the manager! 
I agree that its not all his fault if passes from the back by-pass the midfield, or if he's the defensive part of the midfield, but even so, a team with ambitions for promotion must be getting more out of their midfielders. The worry is that Mulumby is much the same type of player, which together explains much of the current goalscoring problem. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 21, 2022, 05:04:15 PM
The last promotion season. He scored three and got five assists with his last goal coming against Preston in February 2020. No goals or assists last season. No goals and one assist this season. Figures courtesy of Transfermarkt.

Shocking statistic that Jake Livermore offers nothing but pain and misery. Lovely bloke though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 21, 2022, 05:07:44 PM
Shocking statistic that Jake Livermore offers nothing but pain and misery. Lovely bloke though.

Never met him so I can't really comment on the lovely bloke bit. My lad said he was sound when he bumped into him in Sutton though. And no, Jake didn't score then either  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on January 21, 2022, 06:19:17 PM
** :-X Despair Intensifies :-X **

With the contract trigger in the players favour he was always going to take it, but I wish he'd just go away to be honest. The club will likely continue to sink with him captaining in the midfield.

Turns like a tank,
But still making bank,
I couldn't even rank,
Just how... Rubbish  :P
He truly is.

P.S. he could be the nicest bloke on the planet; But it doesn't matter; it's not what we pay him (a ridiculous amount of money) for.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 22, 2022, 05:57:11 PM
Probably man of the match today.  Won the ball all over the pitch, played through balls, got an assist.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 22, 2022, 05:59:25 PM
Probably man of the match today.  Won the ball all over the pitch, played through balls, got an assist.

I wasn't very impressed and yet thought it was one of his better games. Doesn't have the quality on the ball to hurt the opposition and too immobile off it to get around the pitch. Nor does he bother to break forward to support the front three. Zero assists and zero goals in two years along with several red cards. I don't see the point in him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 22, 2022, 06:07:07 PM
I wasn't very impressed and yet thought it was one of his better games. Doesn't have the quality on the ball to hurt the opposition and too immobile off it to get around the pitch. Nor does he bother to break forward to support the front three. Zero assists and zero goals in two years along with several red cards. I don't see the point in him.

He played 2 excellent through balls today that opened up the opposition and it was also him that played in Grady for his goal.

He's never going to be Pierera but he didn't do anything wrong today.  In Val's system you're not going to get much from your CM's when it comes to attacking.  They're not there for that.  Look at Mowatt, he's done slightly better as livermore tends to sit deeper out of the two but he's not carving out assists either.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 22, 2022, 06:09:16 PM
He played 2 excellent through balls today that opened up the opposition and it was also him that played in Grady for his goal.

He's never going to be Pierera but he didn't do anything wrong today.  In Val's system you're not going to get much from your CM's when it comes to attacking.  They're not there for that.  Look at Mowatt, he's done slightly better as livermore tends to sit deeper out of the two but he's not carving out assists either.

I recall one decent through ball to Furlong in the first half. I'd also agree with you that he didn't do anything wrong as such but he doesn't add enough to the team either and I get frustrated watching him slow down our transitions. His effort is undeniable,  just lacks the quality for me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 22, 2022, 06:10:29 PM
And i think it was livermore who played Grady in, the TV replay didn't show it again but it looked like number 8.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 22, 2022, 06:11:22 PM
And i think it was livermore who played Grady in, the TV replay didn't show it again but it looked like number 8.

Robinson with the assist according to the BBC text commentary. If Jake has got an assist that should be on the sky sports breaking news yellow bar.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 22, 2022, 06:15:14 PM
And also, if you think our amazing stats about how we concede the fewest goals, unbeaten at home, etc, then surely Jake is a big reason for that? 

Seems harsh to pin the blame on lack of goals on him when Val's system expects the midfield to sit deep, and when you look at the defensive stats he must be doing something right.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 22, 2022, 06:18:54 PM
And also, if you think our amazing stats about how we concede the fewest goals, unbeaten at home, etc, then surely Jake is a big reason for that?

Seems harsh to pin the blame on lack of goals on him when Val's system expects the midfield to sit deep, and when you look at the defensive stats he must be doing something right.

I don't think he is no, we play a high line with three strong centre backs and we haven't looked any more defensively vulnerable when he hasn't played. BTW I'm not pinning the blame on Livermore per se or even in general for our lacks of goals, I agree that would be very harsh. It is people like Hugill who have been a disaster up front. But at the same time I don't think Jake brings much to the team and is certainly a player that could be improved on, along with a few others.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Pelada on January 22, 2022, 06:19:41 PM
He offers nothing. We played one of the worst teams in the league today.

He doesn’t want the ball unless it’s inside his own half with an easy side ways pass to make to the full back.

Lost a yard of pace and sharpness and offers little in the way of helping the team build a passing move to open sides up that sit and time waste like Pboro today.

Along with Phillips, and others, is hanging on to a contract his legs can’t really justify any more.

Never lacks effort and was a good signing at the time, but time to move on now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 22, 2022, 06:33:07 PM
I don't think he is no, we play a high line with three strong centre backs and we haven't looked any more defensively vulnerable when he hasn't played. BTW I'm not pinning the blame on Livermore per se or even in general for our lacks of goals, I agree that would be very harsh. It is people like Hugill who have been a disaster up front. But at the same time I don't think Jake brings much to the team and is certainly a player that could be improved on, along with a few others.

We've got amazing defensive stats, that you've raised in another thread, but its nothing to do with the midfielder whose job is to screen the defence?

Like I said, he's never going to be a Pierera and i don't know why people expect him to rack up masses of assists and goals.  He's basicslly like a slightly worse Yacob for his role now.  I think the criticism aimed his way is overly harsh at times.  Today he was excellent, didnt give the ball away, used it well, played forward through balls, made tackles, we need more performances like that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 22, 2022, 06:34:21 PM
Not a fan but he did very well today and just edges it for MOTM for me
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 22, 2022, 06:34:50 PM
We've got amazing defensive stats, that you've raised in another thread, but its nothing to do with the midfielder whose job is to screen the defence?

Like I said, he's never going to be a Pierera and i don't know why people expect him to rack up masses of assists and goals.  He's basicslly like a slightly worse Yacob for his role now.  I think the criticism aimed his way is overly harsh at times.  Today he was excellent, didnt give the ball away, used it well, played forward through balls, made tackles, we need more performances like that.

No, I don't assign him much credit with our defensive stats as we have been just as good defensively when he has not played. I'd agree with you that the criticism of him is overly harsh at times and that today was one of his better games.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Canmore Baggie on January 22, 2022, 06:38:19 PM
Not a fan but he did very well today and just edges it for MOTM for me

Fair comment.  I cringe whenever I see him on the team sheet, but I thought he did well today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 22, 2022, 06:44:15 PM
Fair comment.  I cringe whenever I see him on the team sheet, but I thought he did well today.

He certainly seemed to have more oomph and character to his game today, which was pleasing as I thought both him and Molumby were a dire at QPR. Same intensity needed in the week.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 22, 2022, 07:54:09 PM
M.O.M simples
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 23, 2022, 03:25:26 PM
Thought he had a very solid if unspectacular game. Wasn't called on to do a huge amount beyond hold things together which he did well. Thought his passing was better than normal too, opposition notwithstanding.

To be honest that's how I see the majority of his games. By no means the thoroughly useless waste of rations and oxygen he's often portrayed as. He's no B. Robson but I don't think he's ever claimed to be. And rightly so.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jeb-Dog on January 23, 2022, 07:47:58 PM
Had his best game for a while against Peterborough but it’s not a high bar and they are a terrible, terrible team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on January 24, 2022, 09:03:48 AM
I wasn't very impressed and yet thought it was one of his better games. Doesn't have the quality on the ball to hurt the opposition and too immobile off it to get around the pitch. Nor does he bother to break forward to support the front three. Zero assists and zero goals in two years along with several red cards. I don't see the point in him.

it's zero goals 1 assist!  :D (he got the assist against Blues in October). Mowatt has scored 3 goals but has only 1 assist which was the first game of the season and the same amount of red cards this season.
Usually when Mowatt plays Livermore is the more defensive of the two so it's not that surprising that he doesn't score, surely it's more surprising that Mowatt hasn't got an assist since the first game of the season?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 24, 2022, 12:59:41 PM
Livermore is a sheet anchor for 3 good central defenders who are rarely tested at this level.

Every game (home or away) the emphasis is on WBA to break teams down.

A slow transition through midfield, with little skill and guile is causing us immense difficulties, not withstanding chances missed by the forwards.  The worst culprit, Hugill has been cast aside, which is good.

However, there is no cunning or trickery in the midfield to open teams up.  I would say Mowatt is better at what he does than Livermore.

A proper No10 in the Koumas role is what's required.  We have 3 young kids who could be tried - Gardner-Hickman, Castro, Texeira.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on January 24, 2022, 01:13:24 PM
We have also got CR, with the ability and composure on the ball and the ability to find a player making the run in front of him, he is the most natural number 10 on the books. How many assists this season? If he is a little deeper and gives the option for an easy quick short pass from the midfield the transition can be much quicker. it is not always the midfielders fault when there is nothing in front of them showing for the pass.

TGH will have opportunities in cm or wing back in future, and may eventually replace Jake, but for now Livermore does a job in helping too create the turn overs so he will stay, but maybe not always for the full 90. Options from the bench are so critical in this set up.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on January 24, 2022, 01:16:21 PM
Livermore is a sheet anchor for 3 good central defenders who are rarely tested at this level.

Every game (home or away) the emphasis is on WBA to break teams down.

A slow transition through midfield, with little skill and guile is causing us immense difficulties, not withstanding chances missed by the forwards.  The worst culprit, Hugill has been cast aside, which is good.

However, there is no cunning or trickery in the midfield to open teams up.  I would say Mowatt is better at what he does than Livermore.

A proper No10 in the Koumas role is what's required.  We have 3 young kids who could be tried - Gardner-Hickman, Castro, Texeira.

Texeira is a full in defensive midfielder from what I’ve seen,not a number 10. Agree with a lot of what you have said.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 26, 2022, 11:13:33 PM
Just leave. 

Your not the only one underperforminng but you just hid tonight - 27 touches in 70 mins.

What is the point any more?

No technical capability and even Bartley had 70odd touches.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBASPE77 on January 26, 2022, 11:15:15 PM
Hes rubbish ducking outnthe way of headers tonight. He can't pass tackle shot or create anything. But we just given him another year. He should have been sacked off years ago.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 26, 2022, 11:16:03 PM
Back to being garbage tonight.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on January 27, 2022, 12:39:53 AM
Back to being garbage tonight.

par for the course - offers nothing, couldn't captain a toy boat.

People can continue to think I was over the line if they want but I stand by my comment from a couple of weeks ago that was removed - further vinidcated today by another users post on the Val topic this evening.

Big ego, big wages, drain on the club both physically and financially - the sooner we are shot of this parasite the better. Please leave.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 27, 2022, 12:51:35 AM
par for the course - offers nothing, couldn't captain a toy boat.

People can continue to think I was over the line if they want but I stand by my comment from a couple of weeks ago that was removed - further vinidcated today by another users post on the Val topic this evening.

Big ego, big wages, drain on the club both physically and financially - the sooner we are shot of this parasite the better. Please leave.

Only 18 more months now Val's constant selection of him has triggered his extension
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on January 27, 2022, 01:05:22 AM
I wonder how much better the side would have looked at Championship level minus JL ? That goes for our previous  2 seasons prior to promotion as well .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 27, 2022, 01:16:57 AM
Can I take it for granted he won't be winning this week's Man of the Match then? Only that's the vibe I'm getting. Wouldn't wish to influence anyone's vote when the fairce o' Sandwell does his poll (dancing  :o ) thing........  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tex on January 27, 2022, 04:33:10 AM
Not much you can do in the middle of the park when the ball is being hammered upfield over your head.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 27, 2022, 05:31:48 AM
Not much you can do in the middle of the park when the ball is being hammered upfield over your head.
Not much you can do in the middle of the park when the ball is being hammered upfield over your head.

Livermore never demands the ball and hides because he knows his distribution is poor.

The likes of Bartley have no choice but to lump it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on January 29, 2022, 04:55:07 PM
Did he work really hard today?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on January 29, 2022, 04:55:42 PM
Sounds like Livermore has had a barrage of abuse after going near the fans at full time. Morrison and the kit man have has to console him, radio saying he looks a bit upset (Val had already ****** off down the tunnel as he does when we lose).

Sad to see in a sense, but after seeing off something like 6 managers in a short space of time now, Livermore is at the heart of so many of our issues and I hope the next manager gives him the Allardyce treatment and makes him a bit part player now.

Time to reinvigorate our central midfield with the next manager.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 29, 2022, 04:56:04 PM
Did he work really hard today?

Harder than Mowatt that's for sure.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 29, 2022, 04:56:29 PM
Did he work really hard today?

Their first goal, set piece and he was ball watching let their goal scorer run off the back of him. Having done the same thing and got away with it five minutes earlier. He also successfully wrestled a few of their players to the ground in the first half and miss placed several passes. Standard rubbish from him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on January 29, 2022, 04:57:19 PM
Their first goal, set piece and he was ball watching let their goal scorer run off the back of him. Having done the same thing and got away with it five minutes earlier. He also successfully wrestled a few of their players to the ground in the first half and miss placed several passes. Standard rubbish from him.

Ignore all that. Apparently he’s a “really nice bloke”.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 29, 2022, 05:01:44 PM
Their first goal, set piece and he was ball watching let their goal scorer run off the back of him. Having done the same thing and got away with it five minutes earlier. He also successfully wrestled a few of their players to the ground in the first half and miss placed several passes. Standard rubbish from him.

Watch the first goal again.  He was marking the guy inside, when it dropped to the back post he was the only guy to react and try and get a block.  The question should be 'who let their man go?'. I'm not 100% but it looked like Mowatt from the replay but the camera angle was tight.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 29, 2022, 05:03:13 PM
Watch the first goal again.  He was marking the guy inside, when it dropped to the back post he was the only guy to react and try and get a block.  The question should be 'who let their man go?'. I'm not 100% but it looked like Mowatt from the replay but the camera angle was tight.

Livermore was the bloke who should have been back post marking him, he let him go, moved inside, reacted too late, and couldn't stop the shot. Also ball watching and relying on an offside. Nobody else around to mark their goalscorer, exactly the same carbon copy situation happened five minutes earlier.

Should also be said that Furlong gave away the needless free kick, with a typically stupid and needless challenge.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 29, 2022, 05:04:28 PM
Shown up for what he is today- a poor player even at this level. The Dutch ex bluenose in midfield for them was a very linited player but was made to look like clarence seedorf.

He won the ball back passed it 5 yards lost it. He booted it into the channel lost it. This system will never work if he is in the midfield 2.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SirTonyM on January 29, 2022, 05:08:29 PM
Can I nominate Jake for the worst huddle of the year award :) Since the inspiring speech against Peterborough we have lost 2 games and have put in the most abject performances seen for years  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 29, 2022, 05:11:08 PM
Livermore was the bloke who should have been back post marking him, he let him go, moved inside, reacted too late, and couldn't stop the shot. Also ball watching and relying on an offside. Nobody else around to mark their goalscorer, exactly the same carbon copy situation happened five minutes earlier.

Should also be said that Furlong gave away the needless free kick, with a typically stupid and needless challenge.

No, he shouldn't have been marking him, Livermore was picking up the same player at corners and he had him covered.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 29, 2022, 05:11:14 PM
Can I nominate Jake for the worst huddle of the year award :) Since the inspiring speech against Peterborough we have lost 2 games and have put in the most abject performances seen for years  :D

You can't blame Jake for being picked all the time but you also can't blame the fans for having lost patience with him either. In a limited way I'm glad TGH wasn't thrown the wolves today in that mess of a team. Not the proper thread but special shoutout for Matt Phillips today - even by his own abject standards he found a new low of losing out on every challenge and giving the ball away at will.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 29, 2022, 05:11:45 PM
Can I nominate Jake for the worst huddle of the year award :) Since the inspiring speech against Peterborough we have lost 2 games and have put in the most abject performances seen for years  :D

It's not Jakes fault he gets picked to be fair. It's on Val.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SirTonyM on January 29, 2022, 05:19:26 PM
It's not Jakes fault he gets picked to be fair. It's on Val.

It was a slight attempt to add some humour to a miserable day. We can't even do huddles well :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 29, 2022, 05:20:02 PM
It was a slight attempt to add some humour to a miserable day. We can't even do huddles well :)

Sorry mate i missed it. I appreciate you trying to life the mood, thanks  :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 29, 2022, 05:29:16 PM
Sounds like Livermore has had a barrage of abuse after going near the fans at full time. Morrison and the kit man have has to console him, radio saying he looks a bit upset (Val had already f***** off down the tunnel as he does when we lose).

Sad to see in a sense, but after seeing off something like 6 managers in a short space of time now, Livermore is at the heart of so many of our issues and I hope the next manager gives him the Allardyce treatment and makes him a bit part player now.

Time to reinvigorate our central midfield with the next manager.

Got to laugh at this.

Only a fool would've approached the fans after that horror show.

He must really think he's playing well and deserves the shirt, bless.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Pelada on January 29, 2022, 08:13:58 PM
I think what you’ll find is that you will see these “leadership” things from him because he isn’t contributing with much from a footballing perspective.

He works hard and battles but he fails at the first thing a midfielder should be doing in this system- offering himself for possession- and that is why we end up with the ugliest football we have seen here for quite some time- worse than Pulis and who thought we’d be saying that just a few seasons after he left?

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 29, 2022, 10:18:26 PM
I think what you’ll find is that you will see these “leadership” things from him because he isn’t contributing with much from a footballing perspective.

He works hard and battles but he fails at the first thing a midfielder should be doing in this system- offering himself for possession- and that is why we end up with the ugliest football we have seen here for quite some time- worse than Pulis and who thought we’d be saying that just a few seasons after he left?

This sums it up well. His only contribution is to spend most of the game chatting to the ref and pointing his fingers at other players; alongside a few rash challenges to mask that he is too slow to keep up with the play when we don't have the ball and he goes into hiding when we do get it; only to play the wimpiest pass possible when he has to. Doesn't actually take any responsibility in a footballing sense, but does a pretend captain hardman routine pretty well. Everyone understands he is toffee on the ball. What he does well to mask is how bad he is defensively, too slow and old to get around the pitch. As somebody said on the matchday thread earlier, he made ex Birmingham midfielder Kieftenbeld look like Clarence Seedorf.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tlms-p23 on January 29, 2022, 10:26:26 PM
This sums it up well. His only contribution is to spend most of the game chatting to the ref and pointing his fingers at other players; alongside a few rash challenges to mask that he is too slow to keep up with the play when we don't have the ball and he goes into hiding when we do get it; only to play the wimpiest pass possible when he has to. Doesn't actually take any responsibility in a footballing sense, but does a pretend captain hardman routine pretty well. Everyone understands he is toffee on the ball. What he does well to mask is how bad he is defensively, too slow and old to get around the pitch. As somebody said on the matchday thread earlier, he made ex Birmingham midfielder Kieftenbeld look like Clarence Seedorf.

I'm sure there are a collection of nebulous stats that make Livermore undroppable in the eyes of Ismael. 'Most middle third recoveries', 'most ground covered out of possession', 'best volume of sweat to maximum heart-rate ratio' or whatever passes for statistical football insight these days.

If he's fit, he'll play and we'll suffer through the low-rent captain, leader, legend act.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on January 29, 2022, 11:11:57 PM
Can I nominate Jake for the worst huddle of the year award :) Since the inspiring speech against Peterborough we have lost 2 games and have put in the most abject performances seen for years  :D

I reckon Jake was saying 'right lads, 2 more games and we will get him out....'
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on January 29, 2022, 11:36:29 PM
par for the course - offers nothing, couldn't captain a toy boat.

People can continue to think I was over the line if they want but I stand by my comment from a couple of weeks ago that was removed - further vinidcated today by another users post on the Val topic this evening.

Big ego, big wages, drain on the club both physically and financially - the sooner we are shot of this parasite the better. Please leave.

proving the point today, cheers Jake.

Only player worse today was Furlong and run close by Grant who was also absolutley abject today
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jeb-Dog on January 30, 2022, 07:40:24 AM
Jake is the one consistent during this awful period since the last Pulis year. Offers nowt in midfield. I don’t actually think he’s good enough for this level and in a two man midfield gets constantly overrun. For the sake of him and us I think it’s time for both to move on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 30, 2022, 10:37:24 AM
If the Manager somehow lasts over the coming days, wouldn't it be great if Livermore did the following:

1) resign as club captain with immediate effect.
2) admit his performance over the last 3 months has fell well below standards.
3) fight for his place as a squad player over remaining 3 months.
4) state its best for the club if another player takes over the batton.
5) express this is in the best interests of WBA right now.

We keep hearing he's such a likeable and affable fella. He would earn huge respect for taking the above action.

His legacy would be of a tigerish, committed 100% player, who ultimately put the WBA first.

I even wouldn't mind if he sat on his ass for next season's championship campaign, as he would be entitled to do.

I really think though next season if we wanted to play week in, week out, he's looking at League 2.


Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on January 30, 2022, 11:43:51 AM
I know its against the general opinion but Livermore does seem to be the main scapegoat.

The few bits i do know from around the club is that Livermore isnt one of the rotters and is infact the opposite. Supposedly he is always the most supportive of our (many) new managers and always trys to instill what they want.

Off the pitch he is a real leader too and takes his role as captain very serious, he is very proud of the role and took it worst that most last season when we went down despite not playing much, i think his interview after the game last time we went up showed his feelings.

Its easy to put him in the same group who seem to down tools and of course he has take his share of the blame but one thing i dont think Livermore can be accused of is lack of effort, it should be a minimum requirement but as we have seen numerous times not all players do it.

Unfortunately for him, on the pitch the things he offers on a pitch arent what they were, Livermores game was always being aggressive and winning the ball back, age is catching up with him and for him to succeed we have to either change our formation or play a certain type of player with him.

I think the game has moved on and he should convert to a centre half, Livermore has had some good moments this season but he never was and never will be a stand out type of player, Mowatt is supposed to he the technician and other than two greatgoals has offered nothing and Moloumby cant force his way into the team and the few chances he has had, he looks bang average.

We do need to upgrade Livermore but if he is picked he isnt going to say no and he will continue to do what he does, he will always give 100%, again that should be a given but our players show it isnt.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on January 30, 2022, 11:52:49 AM
He's just one of a number of players in this squad that I never want to see wear the stripes again alongside Bartley, Furlong, Phillips etc.

I do not blame Jake, it is not his fault that he is an awful footballer and that only one manager had the nous to see that and to bomb him out of the side, but sadly seeing him week in week out offering absolutely nothing and picking up a hell of a wage for the privilege, does make you resent him nonetheless.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 30, 2022, 11:53:07 AM
I know its against the general opinion but Livermore does seem to be the main scapegoat.

The few bits i do know from around the club is that Livermore isnt one of the rotters and is infact the opposite. Supposedly he is always the most supportive of our (many) new managers and always trys to instill what they want.

Off the pitch he is a real leader too and takes his role as captain very serious, he is very proud of the role and took it worst that most last season when we went down despite not playing much, i think his interview after the game last time we went up showed his feelings.

Its easy to put him in the same group who seem to down tools and of course he has take his share of the blame but one thing i dont think Livermore can be accused of is lack of effort, it should be a minimum requirement but as we have seen numerous times not all players do it.

Unfortunately for him, on the pitch the things he offers on a pitch arent what they were, Livermores game was always being aggressive and winning the ball back, age is catching up with him and for him to succeed we have to either change our formation or play a certain type of player with him.

I think the game has moved on and he should convert to a centre half, Livermore has had some good moments this season but he never was and never will be a stand out type of player, Mowatt is supposed to he the technician and other than two greatgoals has offered nothing and Moloumby cant force his way into the team and the few chances he has had, he looks bang average.

We do need to upgrade Livermore but if he is picked he isnt going to say no and he will continue to do what he does, he will always give 100%, again that should be a given but our players show it isnt.

That's allright then, if he gives 100% every game.

You could get 11 blokes from the Sunday morning pub team to give 100%.  I'm sure they'd adhere to the training, gym, diet sheets, ice baths etc.

He is 32 (too old), club captain (most responsibility), is the long standing player at the club.

If people can't see that Mowatt is a better player, then I give up.  I would say Mowatt is de-motivated right now, as he can't believe who he's being asked to play alongside match after match.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: timdon on January 30, 2022, 11:56:41 AM
Jake is the one consistent during this awful period since the last Pulis year. Offers nowt in midfield. I don’t actually think he’s good enough for this level and in a two man midfield gets constantly overrun. For the sake of him and us I think it’s time for both to move on.
It's too easy to make statements like this without thinking it through. Move on to where exactly? He has a contract with us for another year and a half on good wages.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on January 30, 2022, 12:00:47 PM
Greg you do seem to blame Livermore for everything wrong with the club.

I clearly said we need to upgrade on him, however he does give 100% which many of our players dont.

You seem to think if livermore is dropped everything is okay, that wont stop players bottling challenges, being half arsed, etc he is part of the problem but not the main one.

Mowatt is a better footballer, right now we need a footballer, he is nowhere to he be seen, he cant really decide if he fancies playing well and trying depending on who plays alongside him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bosh on January 30, 2022, 12:17:40 PM
I thought Livermore looked a better player when he played at centre half - can't remember who against. Positionally, he was not caught out much, still has a footballing brain so anticipated well and kept it simple. In midfield, we need someone who can drive forward, control and dominate and not sit back conceding the midfield area to the opposition. This is something either Jake is being asked to do or something he is doing naturally.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 30, 2022, 12:18:51 PM
That's allright then, if he gives 100% every game.

You could get 11 blokes from the Sunday morning pub team to give 100%.  I'm sure they'd adhere to the training, gym, diet sheets, ice baths etc.

He is 32 (too old), club captain (most responsibility), is the long standing player at the club.

If people can't see that Mowatt is a better player, then I give up.  I would say Mowatt is de-motivated right now, as he can't believe who he's being asked to play alongside match after match.


You have posted over 30 times since Wednesday and most of them are anti Livermore.
What did he do ? run your dog over.
If you can get 11 blokes from a pub team to give 100% then please assemble them as our manager is seemingly unable to motivate our lot.
As for Mowatt , a very average player, highly delighted to be grasped from Barnsley and landing here. Thats what he can't believe.
And that sadly is what most of our players "can't believe" .....that they have landed at this great club.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on January 30, 2022, 12:20:23 PM
I thought Livermore looked a better player when he played at centre half - can't remember who against. Positionally, he was not caught out much, still has a footballing brain so anticipated well and kept it simple. In midfield, we need someone who can drive forward, control and dominate and not sit back conceding the midfield area to the opposition. This is something either Jake is being asked to do or something he is doing naturally.
That was against Andy Carroll mate
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on January 30, 2022, 12:27:10 PM
JL is being asked to perform a role he cannot, in a midfield 2 you have to both provide cover for the defence and link the forwards to the rest of the team. You will often be out numbered and over-run. Preston directed their resources through the middle and we had 3 blokes out wide on each side.
Why is it surprising then that our midfield 2 were swamped and ineffective?

Its the coaches job to see this stuff and react by re-organising the team, yes the captain can do so much on the pitch, but this is Val and he is stubborn as FOrk and has shown himself to be vindictive. So JL aint going to be changing much is he?

Jake isnt great anymore but he is not the root cause of our problems and its unfair to paint him as such.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: caravanc58 on January 30, 2022, 12:31:59 PM
How many player have ever done this GREGMT?

1) resign as club captain with immediate effect.
2) admit his performance over the last 3 months has fell well below standards.
3) fight for his place as a squad player over remaining 3 months.
4) state its best for the club if another player takes over the batton.
5) express this is in the best interests of WBA right now.

And then you say this

His legacy would be of a tigerish, committed 100% player, who ultimately put the WBA first.

Admittedly Livermore ay the most talented but if half this squad were tigerish, committed 100% and put WBA first we wouldn't be in the mess we find ourselves in.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 30, 2022, 12:46:23 PM
JL is being asked to perform a role he cannot, in a midfield 2 you have to both provide cover for the defence and link the forwards to the rest of the team. You will often be out numbered and over-run. Preston directed their resources through the middle and we had 3 blokes out wide on each side.
Why is it surprising then that our midfield 2 were swamped and ineffective?

Its the coaches job to see this stuff and react by re-organising the team, yes the captain can do so much on the pitch, but this is Val and he is stubborn as FOrk and has shown himself to be vindictive. So JL aint going to be changing much is he?

Jake isnt great anymore but he is not the root cause of our problems and its unfair to paint him as such.

Spot on.  This idea that we can replace Livermore with someone like Pierera is crazy.  The midfield two are constantly over run because they get no support in the middle of the pitch and the tactics push most of our players out wide.  Mowatt hasn't been any better than Livermore for ages now but gets a much easier ride.

We are absolutely crying out for a 3rd body in there to link the 2 CM with the attack but Val will Val.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 30, 2022, 12:47:07 PM
How many player have ever done this GREGMT?

1) resign as club captain with immediate effect.
2) admit his performance over the last 3 months has fell well below standards.
3) fight for his place as a squad player over remaining 3 months.
4) state its best for the club if another player takes over the batton.
5) express this is in the best interests of WBA right now.

And then you say this

His legacy would be of a tigerish, committed 100% player, who ultimately put the WBA first.

Admittedly Livermore ay the most talented but if half this squad were tigerish, committed 100% and put WBA first we wouldn't be in the mess we find ourselves in.

I want to see quality not just bloody 100% effort. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tex on January 30, 2022, 01:04:17 PM
I just don’t get the vitriol towards jake or any of the players, the system is total carp, the opposition Sussed us out about four months ago and the players are left holding the bag.he tried to get the team fired up after Peterborough but that was a one off, they are really that bad. This league is really bad and the coach is making these players look like amateurs. Don’t use the premier league as a reason they have been bad for years, this league is light years from that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2022, 03:34:53 PM
It's too easy to make statements like this without thinking it through. Move on to where exactly? He has a contract with us for another year and a half on good wages.

Same situation as Gibbs last season, he is earning money with us he can't earn elsewhere on a contract better than his ability / open market value. So we are stuck with him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2022, 03:43:38 PM
Spot on.  This idea that we can replace Livermore with someone like Pierera is crazy.  The midfield two are constantly over run because they get no support in the middle of the pitch and the tactics push most of our players out wide.  Mowatt hasn't been any better than Livermore for ages now but gets a much easier ride.

We are absolutely crying out for a 3rd body in there to link the 2 CM with the attack but Val will Val.

You think replacing a terrible footballer with a great footballer is crazy, a view which I struggle to get my head around. Livermore is too old and slow to defend and useless on the ball. So by definition, Pereira who is a genius on the ball and always put in a shift off it, would be a quantum-leap upgrade, regardless of whether he played central midfield, up front, left back, right back etc. Please consider the last time we played in a sticky away game at Millwall we had Krov - exactly the same type as Pereira playing in central midfield and scoring in a win.

Your posts suggest that the midfield being over-run is product of the system, rather than having a immobile 32 year old in the middle who can't get across the grass. It seems obvious to me we should be reverting back to Mowatt and TGH in the midfield, who didn't look over-run the last time they played together away at Coventry.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 30, 2022, 03:53:13 PM
You think replacing a terrible footballer with a great footballer is crazy, a view which I struggle to get my head around. Livermore is too old and slow to defend and useless on the ball. So by definition, Pereira who is a genius on the ball and always put in a shift off it, would be a quantum-leap upgrade, regardless of whether he played central midfield, up front, left back, right back etc. Please consider the last time we played in a sticky away game at Millwall we had Krov - exactly the same type as Pereira playing in central midfield and scoring in a win.

Your posts suggest that the midfield being over-run is product of the system, rather than having a immobile 32 year old in the middle who can't get across the grass. It seems obvious to me we should be reverting back to Mowatt and TGH in the midfield, who didn't look over-run the last time they played together away at Coventry.


Hallelujah.  Someone he sees it exactly like I do!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 30, 2022, 04:10:59 PM
I know its against the general opinion but Livermore does seem to be the main scapegoat. The few bits i do know from around the club is that Livermore isnt one of the rotters and is infact the opposite........

I clipped your post to save readers scrolling through it again. Thank you for the wider insight. Mowatt gets a relatively free ride on here. I've stated before that Jake isn't always the problem. But he's been here the longest of the two and there's no denying we've gone through a lot of upheaval during that time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2022, 04:32:41 PM
I clipped your post to save readers scrolling through it again. Thank you for the wider insight. Mowatt gets a relatively free ride on here. I've stated before that Jake isn't always the problem. But he's been here the longest of the two and there's no denying we've gone through a lot of upheaval during that time.

I was far from happy with Mowatt's performance yesterday either but at least he was playing well before his injury and is six years younger than Jake so doesn't need a zimmerframe to get around the pitch. Your correct to say that Jake isn't always the problem, but he is never the solution.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 30, 2022, 04:47:48 PM
I was far from happy with Mowatt's performance yesterday either but at least he was playing well before his injury and is six years younger than Jake so doesn't need a zimmerframe to get around the pitch. Your correct to say that Jake isn't always the problem, but he is never the solution.

He got injured on October 1st. Since then he's made nine appearances from twelve games. Personally think he may have come back in too soon and he's struggling to regain his form. For all that he needs to improve and take more responsibility in games. And quickly. That's regardless of who he plays alongside. There's times when Jake does the running of two. No wonder he always looks knackered  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on January 30, 2022, 04:56:32 PM
You think replacing a terrible footballer with a great footballer is crazy, a view which I struggle to get my head around. Livermore is too old and slow to defend and useless on the ball. So by definition, Pereira who is a genius on the ball and always put in a shift off it, would be a quantum-leap upgrade, regardless of whether he played central midfield, up front, left back, right back etc. Please consider the last time we played in a sticky away game at Millwall we had Krov - exactly the same type as Pereira playing in central midfield and scoring in a win.

Your posts suggest that the midfield being over-run is product of the system, rather than having a immobile 32 year old in the middle who can't get across the grass. It seems obvious to me we should be reverting back to Mowatt and TGH in the midfield, who didn't look over-run the last time they played together away at Coventry.
Good post 82.
He is one of a few genuine leaders on the pitch, but that shouldn't be enough to take up one of our precious midfield slots.  We are crying out for more creativity in midfield. I appreciate that the system doesn't help when the ball gets zoomed upwards 40 yards up from the back by Clarke and Bartley.

However, Livermore just doesn't deliver enough through passes into danger areas. His passing technique is poor. Often his one aim seems to be to just get a boot on the ball and secondary is where the ball actually ends up. So lots of his 'passes', are just hooks forward in the general direction of the oppo goal at an awkward height for any Albion player who happens to be in the vicinity. I don't think he has mastered the art of controlling a ball and then delivering a pass along the ground in more or less one movement. That might be because he would need too much time.

Secondly, its is spotting who is making a run and timing the pass to perfection. Some players have this, Pereira being an obvious example, and others just don't. Yet it is a crucial skill for a creative midfielder.

You can only make a case for Livermore if his role was purely defensive, and other players are there to provide the creativity. But most teams can't have the luxury of midfielders not offering any creativity, unless they are just setting out to 'park the bus'. You'd hope that a promotion chasing team such as Albion would not be in that category. 
     
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 30, 2022, 05:26:08 PM
You think replacing a terrible footballer with a great footballer is crazy, a view which I struggle to get my head around. Livermore is too old and slow to defend and useless on the ball. So by definition, Pereira who is a genius on the ball and always put in a shift off it, would be a quantum-leap upgrade, regardless of whether he played central midfield, up front, left back, right back etc. Please consider the last time we played in a sticky away game at Millwall we had Krov - exactly the same type as Pereira playing in central midfield and scoring in a win.

Your posts suggest that the midfield being over-run is product of the system, rather than having a immobile 32 year old in the middle who can't get across the grass. It seems obvious to me we should be reverting back to Mowatt and TGH in the midfield, who didn't look over-run the last time they played together away at Coventry.

It's not Championship Manager.  You can't replace a defensive sitting midfielder with a playmaker who plays behind a number 9 and think it'll wok out.  If you're playing someone like Pierera then they need to be in a midfield 3.  I agree that having a slow 32 year old in the middle doesn't help - but Mowatt gets overrun, in games without Livermore we've been overrun.  It would be interesting to see the distance covered stats, because the club will have access to them and if Livermore isn't getting through the miles then I'm sure it would have been picked up.  The issue is there's so much space in the middle that Mowatt\Livermore close a player down and the opposition have 2 or 3 easy options on.

You literally argued against yourself though!  That game against Millwall that Krov scored in.....  he had Livermore and Sawyers sitting in behind him.  We played a 4-2-3-1, which is perfect for someone like Krov or Pierera and that's how you fit them in the team. 

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on January 30, 2022, 05:32:19 PM
4-2-3-1 would work for us now, with a different manager
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2022, 05:53:13 PM
It's not Championship Manager.  You can't replace a defensive sitting midfielder with a playmaker who plays behind a number 9 and think it'll wok out.  If you're playing someone like Pierera then they need to be in a midfield 3.  I agree that having a slow 32 year old in the middle doesn't help - but Mowatt gets overrun, in games without Livermore we've been overrun.  It would be interesting to see the distance covered stats, because the club will have access to them and if Livermore isn't getting through the miles then I'm sure it would have been picked up.  The issue is there's so much space in the middle that Mowatt\Livermore close a player down and the opposition have 2 or 3 easy options on.

You literally argued against yourself though!  That game against Millwall that Krov scored in.....  he had Livermore and Sawyers sitting in behind him.  We played a 4-2-3-1, which is perfect for someone like Krov or Pierera and that's how you fit them in the team.

It is not as simple as looking at distance covered, it is the ability to react in time, to sprint, to have positional sense, to make the correct decisions. Everyone has opinions about the best formation; that's fine. But this is the Jake Livermore thread and he isn't good enough, regardless of what the tactics are.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 30, 2022, 10:31:48 PM
It is not as simple as looking at distance covered, it is the ability to react in time, to sprint, to have positional sense, to make the correct decisions. Everyone has opinions about the best formation; that's fine. But this is the Jake Livermore thread and he isn't good enough, regardless of what the tactics are.

But you don't think the club has access to all that data? 

Jake isn't amazing, but I'm absolutely sure that this formation does neither him nor Mowatt any favours.  What would be wrong to line up as...

                               SJ
Furlong\TGH       Clarke      Bartley     Townsend
             Livermore       Mowatt
Grady             Robinson             Grant
                   Dike/Phillips

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 30, 2022, 11:01:04 PM
But you don't think the club has access to all that data? 

Jake isn't amazing, but I'm absolutely sure that this formation does neither him nor Mowatt any favours.  What would be wrong to line up as...

                               SJ
Furlong\TGH       Clarke      Bartley     Townsend
             Livermore       Mowatt
Grady             Robinson             Grant
                   Dike/Phillips

Understatement.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 31, 2022, 01:33:33 AM
But you don't think the club has access to all that data? 

Jake isn't amazing, but I'm absolutely sure that this formation does neither him nor Mowatt any favours.  What would be wrong to line up as...

                               SJ
Furlong\TGH       Clarke      Bartley     Townsend
             Livermore       Mowatt
Grady             Robinson             Grant
                   Dike/Phillips

Whatever anyone thinks of Jake Livermore or Valerien Ismael it's worth remembering that Alex Mowatt was primarily recruited because this formation brought out the best of Alex Mowatt. Granted the fact he was signed as a so called 'free' would have been an added bonus.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 31, 2022, 10:23:21 AM
Whatever anyone thinks of Jake Livermore or Valerien Ismael it's worth remembering that Alex Mowatt was primarily recruited because this formation brought out the best of Alex Mowatt. Granted the fact he was signed as a so called 'free' would have been an added bonus.

Both Mowatt and Livermore have been poor for several weeks.

The difference is Livermore is putting in 100% every game and is at his maximum.  I don't need to say anything else on his actual effectiveness!

Mowatt has been banned and has had 1 lengthy injury which has disrupted his season.  Also had been suspended I think twice now.  I think these 2 events have been a factor. I would say Mowatt recently has been way short of 100% effort.

So while Mowatt has gears to go through, Livermore is in 5th gear right now.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 31, 2022, 10:33:59 AM
Both Mowatt and Livermore have been poor for several weeks.

The difference is Livermore is putting in 100% every game and is at his maximum.  I don't need to say anything else on his actual effectiveness!

Mowatt has been banned and has had 1 lengthy injury which has disrupted his season.  Also had been suspended I think twice now.  I think these 2 events have been a factor. I would say Mowatt recently has been way short of 100% effort.

So while Mowatt has gears to go through, Livermore is in 5th gear right now.

Seriously Greg, I wish you would just give up your one man crusade against Jake. We all know he is towards the end of his career, we all know that there is better out there, we all know that our midfield is a shadow of the one we had two years ago, but we also all know that there is no money to readily go out and buy decent replacements due to the ever unfolding mess at our club.

Replacing Livermore is not going to solve our abysmal strike force/record, replacing Livermore is not going to solve our weak midfield because personally I am not seeing anything from Molumby or Mowatt to suggest that they are streets ahead. They are all as bad as each other - we sold our one creative midfielder for a pittance and did not replace him at all. You reap what you sow in this game, and perhaps the board are now realising this, but to blame Livermore for absolutely everything is just daft.

We all know..........
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 31, 2022, 10:56:13 AM
Seriously Greg, I wish you would just give up your one man crusade against Jake. We all know he is towards the end of his career, we all know that there is better out there, we all know that our midfield is a shadow of the one we had two years ago, but we also all know that there is no money to readily go out and buy decent replacements due to the ever unfolding mess at our club.

Replacing Livermore is not going to solve our abysmal strike force/record, replacing Livermore is not going to solve our weak midfield because personally I am not seeing anything from Molumby or Mowatt to suggest that they are streets ahead. They are all as bad as each other - we sold our one creative midfielder for a pittance and did not replace him at all. You reap what you sow in this game, and perhaps the board are now realising this, but to blame Livermore for absolutely everything is just daft.

We all know..........

The replacement for Livermore is right under our nose - Gardner-Hickman.

Furthermore, no one can state Livermore is superior to Molumby even.

I've seen countless people on here deliberately defend Livermore, so plenty her ethink he's doing a good job!

Anyhow, I'll now leave other people to keep defining him.....

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 31, 2022, 10:58:25 AM
Both Mowatt and Livermore have been poor for several weeks.

The difference is Livermore is putting in 100% every game and is at his maximum.  I don't need to say anything else on his actual effectiveness!

Mowatt has been banned and has had 1 lengthy injury which has disrupted his season.  Also had been suspended I think twice now.  I think these 2 events have been a factor. I would say Mowatt recently has been way short of 100% effort.

So while Mowatt has gears to go through, Livermore is in 5th gear right now.

Stunned to find you think Jake's got five gears, or is it just fifth ;D ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 31, 2022, 11:04:45 AM
Stunned to find you think Jake's got five gears, or is it just fifth ;D ?

Haha.

Seriously, I do acknowledge JL puts in 100% effort, seems mentally strong, and willing to tough out situations.

It's no substitute for quality.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 31, 2022, 11:33:22 AM
The replacement for Livermore is right under our nose - Gardner-Hickman.

Furthermore, no one can state Livermore is superior to Molumby even.

I've seen countless people on here deliberately defend Livermore, so plenty her ethink he's doing a good job!

Anyhow, I'll now leave other people to keep defining him.....

Is that a promise Greg?  ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on January 31, 2022, 11:44:29 AM
I'll try my best to keep quiet now  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 31, 2022, 11:50:07 AM
I'll try my best to keep quiet now  ;D

Proud of you Greg........a bit like a sponsored silence in school ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 31, 2022, 04:25:03 PM
Seriously Greg, I wish you would just give up your one man crusade against Jake. We all know he is towards the end of his career, we all know that there is better out there, we all know that our midfield is a shadow of the one we had two years ago, but we also all know that there is no money to readily go out and buy decent replacements due to the ever unfolding mess at our club.

Replacing Livermore is not going to solve our abysmal strike force/record, replacing Livermore is not going to solve our weak midfield because personally I am not seeing anything from Molumby or Mowatt to suggest that they are streets ahead. They are all as bad as each other - we sold our one creative midfielder for a pittance and did not replace him at all. You reap what you sow in this game, and perhaps the board are now realising this, but to blame Livermore for absolutely everything is just daft.

We all know..........

Fell off my chair when I read that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 31, 2022, 04:34:39 PM
Fell off my chair when I read that.

Well I hope you didn't hurt yourself ;)

He is one part of the midfield 82, the others are bobbins as well. Sam recognised it straight away and did something about it. If he saw the others in midfield today he would do exactly the same I am sure.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 31, 2022, 05:11:45 PM
Well I hope you didn't hurt yourself ;)

He is one part of the midfield 82, the others are bobbins as well. Sam recognised it straight away and did something about it. If he saw the others in midfield today he would do exactly the same I am sure.

This I agree with, there are five players minimum who I would like sold or given away in the summer, regardless of what league we are in.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on January 31, 2022, 05:13:59 PM
Step away from the keyboard Greg  ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 02, 2022, 04:08:12 PM
Another manager seen off, well done Jake. Probably doesn’t even want us to go up because he knows he’d add another relegation to his CV.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on February 02, 2022, 04:14:07 PM
Did Jake play for Bruce at Hull?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 02, 2022, 04:17:07 PM
Did Jake play for Bruce at Hull?

Yep, Bruce left Hull in July 2016, Livermore joined us Jan 2017
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 02, 2022, 04:17:25 PM
Jake Livermore = Steve Bruce type player
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 09, 2022, 08:28:24 PM
We’ll win the next few games now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 09, 2022, 08:29:10 PM
Livermore half an hour too late again.

Great outcome.

We might actually have a chance in the next 3 matches now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 09, 2022, 08:34:29 PM
Surely it has to be more than 3 games? Second red of the season. Come on FA, do the right thing and ban him for the rest of the season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 09, 2022, 08:38:19 PM
He's got 6 yellows and 2 reds now. Thats 16 disciplinary points.

Good lord.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 09, 2022, 08:39:02 PM
He's got 6 yellows and 2 reds now. Thats 16 disciplinary points.

Good lord.

Yes but he’s a really nice bloke who tries hard and gives 100%.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Sted1990 on February 09, 2022, 08:40:54 PM
I dont care if we go on to win this game, he should never play for this club again.

He might be a nice a guy off the pitch (doubt it) but who cares, he offers nothing. We were 8th in the prem when he signed, he's not the only one to blame but he is a huge part of everything wrong with us.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SirTonyM on February 09, 2022, 08:42:13 PM
Sums up everything about where we are at. Terrible captain and keeps getting picked. I think that's now 5 red cards since he's been at Albion (2 this season as captain) and we give him a 1 year extension on his contract.....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 09, 2022, 08:42:53 PM
Vals probably laughing now, sorted him a 12 month extension at the clubs cost. Cheers Val.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Sted1990 on February 09, 2022, 08:53:48 PM
Vals probably laughing now, sorted him a 12 month extension at the clubs cost. Cheers Val.

He met a set appearance target so it was automatic..sadly
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 09, 2022, 08:56:10 PM
He met a set appearance target so it was automatic..sadly

He only met it because Val picked him every chance he could.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 09, 2022, 08:58:35 PM
Joe Chapman
@ChapmanJ92
Livermore's fifth red card at the Albion four seasons. Plus his accumulated yellows, he'll have been suspended for in the region of 20 games in that time. #wba
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on February 09, 2022, 09:12:02 PM
Anyone still defending this absolute clown needs their head examining.

**** off Jake. Hope you never play for us again you utter waste of space
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 09, 2022, 09:14:20 PM
Bumped into a WBA football coach in a gym tonight.

Disagreed with me over Livermore.

Apparently heart and soul of club, best trainer, leader etc.

That's why we're heading towards League 1 with that type of outlook.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 09, 2022, 09:52:52 PM
Out for 4 games according to Lepkowski.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mr multivac on February 09, 2022, 09:53:13 PM
We were a good premier league side when we signed him , we’ve basically gone backwards since then , he as bought nothing to the side , he’d be nowhere near being in any of our previous championship midfields , hopefully he won’t get back into the side   
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 09, 2022, 09:53:42 PM
Somoene on twitter said we've never lost in the 4 games Livermore has missed through suspension this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Blowee on February 09, 2022, 09:53:55 PM
Out for 4 games according to Lepkowski.
Nooooo - do we have to have him back in 4 games!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on February 09, 2022, 09:55:26 PM
Bumped into a WBA football coach in a gym tonight.

Disagreed with me over Livermore.

Apparently heart and soul of club, best trainer, leader etc.

That's why we're heading towards League 1 with that type of outlook.
we are not going to be anywhere near league 1 >:( and i suggest people within the club will know better than any of us know all what actually goes on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: brummyroader on February 09, 2022, 09:56:09 PM
Get him out of the club NOW

Not a massive Jake basher but just can’t be bothered to be let down by your club captain yet again, bloke is a loose cannon all his reds are needless over aggressive challenges
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 09, 2022, 10:00:19 PM
3rd suspension of season. 2nd red card. Him being unavailable for 3 or 4 games will benefit us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: staticboy on February 09, 2022, 10:02:47 PM
Nooooo - do we have to have him back in 4 games!

Can he be out for 4 seasons instead?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on February 09, 2022, 10:06:08 PM
A contender for the worst player in our history. I understand that sounds hyperbolic, but consider the decline we have suffered with him as our captain and at the heart of our midfield under so many different managers, sliding from the prem down to mid table championship.

Awful signing, awful footballer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 09, 2022, 10:07:28 PM
I am surprised he’s had the ability to trigger a contract extension when you consider the amount of red cards hes had with us.

He’s cost us, yet again.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 09, 2022, 10:07:57 PM
A contender for the worst player in our history. I understand that sounds hyperbolic, but consider the decline we have suffered with him as our captain and at the heart of our midfield under so many different managers, sliding from the prem down to mid table championship.

Awful signing, awful footballer.

Well said
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 09, 2022, 10:08:19 PM
I gave him MOTM against Peterborough but thats his level now. League 1 essentially.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on February 09, 2022, 10:08:40 PM
I've written on here before that he needs to learn how to pass a football. I forgot to say, he also has to learn how to tackle without getting automatic red cards. If you can't contribute much in setting up goal chances, and your defensive game is littered with red cards, there's not much left over.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SirTonyM on February 09, 2022, 10:08:49 PM
In a strange way, is this not a good thing? I didn't want us to lose but now Livermore isn't available for selection...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on February 09, 2022, 10:10:08 PM
In a strange way, is this not a good thing? I didn't want us to lose but now Livermore isn't available for selection...

It's great Ness really. It may be the only positive from today. Bruce is now forced to give other players ago for 4 games.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 09, 2022, 10:16:10 PM
I gave him MOTM against Peterborough but thats his level now. League 1 essentially.

I don't think League 1 clubs would touch him with a bargepole  :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on February 09, 2022, 10:17:26 PM
It's great Ness really. It may be the only positive from today. Bruce is now forced to give other players ago for 4 games.
It means Mulumby and Reach are nailed on starters. Not sure that helps us a lot. We are missing quality players in midfield.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on February 09, 2022, 10:27:46 PM
It means Mulumby and Reach are nailed on starters. Not sure that helps us a lot. We are missing quality players in midfield.

It might mean that, but you could cross your fingers that Bruce goes against the grain and gives (previous MoTM) Gardner-Hickman another go.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on February 09, 2022, 10:29:47 PM
So does Bruce recall him immediately his ban  finishes ? If he does then I’m sorry but Bruce won’t be any improvement on Val . Bring back Big Sam  !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on February 09, 2022, 11:00:28 PM
Livermore has been a liberty since some idiot at Albion signed him in 2017 then another idiot gave him a new contract and captain’s armband and yet again he gets contract extension from another idiot.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on February 09, 2022, 11:07:02 PM
Bruce has defended him in his post match press conference, didn't think it was a red and said it was a perfectly good challenege which he should have made.

So captain fantastic will be back in the first 11 after his latest 4 game ban. Joy.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 09, 2022, 11:12:40 PM
If he's straight back in then good luck to SB
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on February 09, 2022, 11:55:07 PM
Bruce has defended him in his post match press conference, didn't think it was a red and said it was a perfectly good challenege which he should have made.

So captain fantastic will be back in the first 11 after his latest 4 game ban. Joy.
That means we can expect to see the same type of tackle again. With more red cards to come. Jake has a way of lunging at the ball from a distance which means he loses control. Someone has to coach it out of him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 10, 2022, 12:10:25 AM
That means we can expect to see the same type of tackle again. With more red cards to come. Jake has a way of lunging at the ball from a distance which means he loses control. Someone has to coach it out of him.

Umpteen coaches have failed to coach him how to pass a football, I think the old adage of old dog and new tricks will apply to him now. He just needs to no longer feature
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on February 10, 2022, 02:32:49 AM
Watched back the red card, looks harsh too me but ref was definitely influenced by Sheff player’s. Still a silly challenge which gave official a choice.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on February 10, 2022, 06:39:05 AM
He's prone to rash tackles due the the fact that he has a turning circle akin to one of Stobbarts wagons and is out of position most of the time.
Not an over reaction but I hope we don't see him again.
This isn't an isolated case is it.
Time for us to move on and for Jake to move over.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 10, 2022, 06:57:04 AM
Watched back the red card, looks harsh too me but ref was definitely influenced by Sheff player’s. Still a silly challenge which gave official a choice.

He doesn't learn that's the thing and at his age he should know better. He is captain and should be behaving more responsibly.

I thought it was a bit of a harsh straight red but I have no sympathy with JL because he should know better than to give the referee the decision to make.

You could excuse it if he was an inexperienced kid but he isn't. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tegga on February 10, 2022, 07:23:36 AM
I thought he was doing ok till that rash tackle, but this is what you get with Jake. There many times when he tackles, he gives fouls away. He is like a bull in China shop and goes through the player. There is no need to dive into tackles like he does in this modern football era.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on February 10, 2022, 07:36:16 AM
I thought he was doing ok till that rash tackle, but this is what you get with Jake. There many times when he tackles, he gives fouls away. He is like a bull in China shop and goes through the player. There is no need to dive into tackles like he does in this modern football era.

I remember when my legs went and I was making daft tackles like that. I gave up and so should Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: koren on February 10, 2022, 08:30:55 AM
The club sold Sam Field to a promotion rival (QPR) and he starts regularly there.
At the same time we are stuck with Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sconesy on February 10, 2022, 08:39:16 AM
Respect him for his service to the club, however fans have always been aware that he’s probably one of the least naturally gifted footballers we’ve had here over the last 2/3 decades.

Now his legs are failing him it’s becoming really painful to watch. Bruce will have failed before he’s even started if he cannot come to terms with this fact.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 10, 2022, 09:01:52 AM
Bruce has defended him in his post match press conference, didn't think it was a red and said it was a perfectly good challenege which he should have made.

So captain fantastic will be back in the first 11 after his latest 4 game ban. Joy.

This was my take away too.

I honestly do not see what managers see in him.

Awful footballer and appalling captain.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on February 10, 2022, 10:30:48 AM
His discipline is a shambles and doesn't set any sort of example and for what it's worth Mowatt's on the same trajectory discipline-wise. I want Livermore out of this club. He may very well be exemplary off the pitch but I don't watch Albion play football for 90 minutes based on their characters outside of that time. Granted, I want our players to be nice people and not Joey Bartons however the quality on the pitch is what matters and Jake Livermore's presence has been winding me up for about 3 years now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 10, 2022, 11:59:33 AM
His discipline is a shambles and doesn't set any sort of example and for what it's worth Mowatt's on the same trajectory discipline-wise. I want Livermore out of this club. He may very well be exemplary off the pitch but I don't watch Albion play football for 90 minutes based on their characters outside of that time. Granted, I want our players to be nice people and not Joey Bartons however the quality on the pitch is what matters and Jake Livermore's presence has been winding me up for about 3 years now.

Satisfying to see that the penny is now dropping with people.

You can count on two hands the amount of good games he's had for WBA.

I saw him very early in a Premier League game and rever thinking to myself this guy is way off the standard for that league.

Right now he is way off even Championship level.

Nice guy and all that......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on February 10, 2022, 12:14:43 PM
I cannot understand why we havent got Sawyers back before, its bloody imperative now
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 10, 2022, 12:18:31 PM
I cannot understand why we havent got Sawyers back before, its bloody imperative now


Sawyers not in the Stoke squad anymore i don't believe. Shame he never lived up to the expectations.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on February 10, 2022, 12:22:54 PM
He plays like an old fashioned wig half to me, clattering into reckless challenges all over the place, that sort of player has long gone I'm afraid.
TGH, Mowett plus another in a midfield 3
Part of a 4321 setup
Is the best we can do I think
Of course with O'Shea, Clark, Kipper and Townshend as my  back 4
Robbo & Diang as the 2
AC up top
I like Granty but not doing enough and neither is Mowett I'm not keen on Reach either but that's our lot, I like that set up but prefer 352
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on February 10, 2022, 12:25:26 PM
Perhaps we could fit in Robbo as on of the 3 in midfield and put Grant in the 2?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 10, 2022, 02:46:12 PM
Hopefully if we appeal we’ll get an extra game added on making 5 for frivolous appeal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on February 10, 2022, 03:15:32 PM
Someone needs to tell him. If it means lunging at the ball when he is not next to the player with the ball, refs. will see it as losing control, especially when it is delivered in a vigorous manner. Even if he gets part of the ball, making a strong contact with the player gives refs a reason.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 10, 2022, 03:21:29 PM

Sawyers not in the Stoke squad anymore i don't believe. Shame he never lived up to the expectations.

Romaine Sawyers suffered a major tear to a quadricep in December. He hasn't featured in squads because he's been unavailable for selection. Think he's due back post rehab either later this month or early next.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 10, 2022, 03:22:05 PM
Romaine Sawyers suffered a major tear to a quadricep in December. He hasn't featured in squads because he's been unavailable for selection. Think he's due back post rehab either later this month or early next.


Thanks for that Dan. MY 3 stokie mates said he's garbage so i assumed it was to do with that.

On the OS now we are appealing JL red card.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 10, 2022, 03:26:50 PM

Thanks for that Dan. MY 3 stokie mates said he's garbage so i assumed it was to do with that.

On the OS now we are appealing JL red card.

Let's hope they give him an extra 10 games.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 10, 2022, 03:28:27 PM

Thanks for that Dan. MY 3 stokie mates said he's garbage so i assumed it was to do with that.

On the OS now we are appealing JL red card.

I only saw the game on Now TV's Bonus channel which is red button coverage so no replay of JL's challenge and I haven't seen one since. My first impression was that a red was harsh. Genuinely thought he was having a half decent game to that point.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on February 10, 2022, 03:30:54 PM
Satisfying to see that the penny is now dropping with people.

You can count on two hands the amount of good games he's had for WBA.

I saw him very early in a Premier League game and rever thinking to myself this guy is way off the standard for that league.

Right now he is way off even Championship level.

Nice guy and all that......

Yup I’ve been saying it for a long time as have a number of others, it s not a case of the penny dropping. I don’t blame Livermore for everything and I’m not as verciferus as some . I think the good will has now gone from supporters completely.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 10, 2022, 03:32:19 PM
I only saw the game on Now TV's Bonus channel which is red button coverage so no replay of JL's challenge and I haven't seen one since. My first impression was that a red was harsh. Genuinely thought he was having a half decent game to that point.

He was.

He has really, really, really annoyed me with that tackle though. No need to make it, harsh or not, absolute stupid tackle and it's not as if its the first time or even second or third.

I'm pretty much done with him now. He's not going to change at his age.

I want him gone.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on February 10, 2022, 03:42:28 PM
Bruce is going to bring him back into the team unless whatever midfield combination he alights upon makes themselves pretty much undropable.

I have to say that seems unlikely Mowatt has been out of sorts since the toe injury, Moulumby has been hit and miss Gardner-Hickman has had 2 games in Central Midfield in a Senior career that does not stretch to 10 games. Reach not really a Central mid.

The absence of Livermore does not make the choices any easier particularly if as looks likely we move to a back 4.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 10, 2022, 03:47:13 PM
If last night's anything to go by we need to revert to a back three pretty sharpish. And if Ajayi plays I hope he's partnering Andy Carroll up front and doesn't come back to defend set pieces either.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on February 10, 2022, 03:49:46 PM
He was.

He has really, really, really annoyed me with that tackle though. No need to make it, harsh or not, absolute stupid tackle and it's not as if its the first time or even second or third.

I'm pretty much done with him now. He's not going to change at his age.

I want him gone.

It was almost as if it was a 'revenge' tackle IMO - complete unnecessary and very costly.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Critical Baggie on February 10, 2022, 04:05:44 PM
Bumped into a WBA football coach in a gym tonight.

Disagreed with me over Livermore.

Apparently heart and soul of club, best trainer, leader etc.

That's why we're heading towards League 1 with that type of outlook.

I think this is a big problem at the Albion. We always hear how they’re all ‘such a nice bunch of lads’ which is fine but bottom line is many of the players are far off the pace and in Jakes case a shocking record when it comes to discipline.

Never judged Livermore’s commitment. Seems a lovely guy and has been through a lot but as other posters have pointed out, we’ve got worse as a team during his captaincy this past 3-4 seasons.

It’s time to reset so it’s Liver-no-more for me. We must get new captain. Should be a priority for Bruce in the summer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: timdon on February 10, 2022, 04:14:31 PM
I think this is a big problem at the Albion. We always hear how they’re all ‘such a nice bunch of lads’ which is fine but bottom line is many of the players are far off the pace and in Jakes case a shocking record when it comes to discipline.

Never judged Livermore’s commitment. Seems a lovely guy and has been through a lot but as other posters have pointed out, we’ve got worse as a team during his captaincy this past 3-4 seasons.

It’s time to reset so it’s Liver-no-more for me. We must get new captain. Should be a priority for Bruce in the summer.
I'm not expecting Bruce to be here in the summer, but if he is, there will be no new captain.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 10, 2022, 04:16:59 PM
I think this is a big problem at the Albion. We always hear how they’re all ‘such a nice bunch of lads’ which is fine but bottom line is many of the players are far off the pace and in Jakes case a shocking record when it comes to discipline.

Never judged Livermore’s commitment. Seems a lovely guy and has been through a lot but as other posters have pointed out, we’ve got worse as a team during his captaincy this past 3-4 seasons.

It’s time to reset so it’s Liver-no-more for me. We must get new captain. Should be a priority for Bruce in the summer.

Minor point perhaps but Jake Livermore hasn't been captain for three or four seasons per say. He was captain on a very sporadic basis until he got an eight game stab at it under Darren Moore. He was made captain on a regular basis by Slaven Bilic at the start of our last promotion season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 10, 2022, 04:27:43 PM
I didn't see any of the game so, didn't see the tackle.

There are, obviously and for obvious reasons, conflicting views on here regarding Jake's tackle.

If the Albion think it is worth appealing, then there must be an element of doubt from the professionals whether it was worth of a Red Card.

I'm OK with the club appealing the refs decision. Whatever with think of Jake, if it wasn't a red card then it should be rescinded and the Appeals Panel will be the arbiters and adjudicate accordingly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 10, 2022, 04:34:45 PM
What I found very odd was that Diangana got clattered out wide early on and the ref didn't even give us a free kick from memory. Genuinely thought it looked worse and arrived later than Jake's challenge at any rate. Yet to see a replay of either though so I'm willing to admit I could very well be wrong re both.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on February 10, 2022, 04:35:25 PM
Not defending JL. He went in, he fouled their guy, probably needlessly, and he gave the ref the decision to make. Until then he wasn't doing too badly, but this was not the action of a responsible team captain, and the ref desperately wanted to make his red card earn its keep. He was never going to show it to a Sheffield United player so thought it was his best chance.

My argument is that there needs to be a lot more clarity and conformity about such decisions. I have regularly seen similar tackles go either unpunished, or deemed worthy of only a warning, or at most a yellow card after a previous warning. We are getting players sent off when other clubs are not, and it would seem that as with so many other 'key' decisions referees in general seem only too ready to invoke the highest possible punishments against WBA players. Some of our 'supporters' also seem only too happy to collaborate with this especially when certain players are concerned.

Just taking last nights game and one set of incidents. Andy Carroll was consistently being manhandled and illegally shoved about by both of their central defenders without any protection or interference by the (generally abysmal) ref, yet as soon as Carroll stood up to them and started winning the battles he was deemed to be committing fouls, WHY?

Granted there are more 'in house'  reasons why we are failing, but whilst these levels of inconsistency are consistently working against us how can we expect to win many games? We are not protected from foul play when we are attacking, and are not allowed to tackle when defending. Far better teams than us would struggle under the same circumstances.

But there again my views on officials are already pretty well understood by now I think. 8)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 10, 2022, 04:44:09 PM
I didn't see any of the game so, didn't see the tackle.

There are, obviously and for obvious reasons, conflicting views on here regarding Jake's tackle.

If the Albion think it is worth appealing, then there must be an element of doubt from the professionals whether it was worth of a Red Card.

I'm OK with the club appealing the refs decision. Whatever with think of Jake, if it wasn't a red card then it should be rescinded and the Appeals Panel will be the arbiters and adjudicate accordingly.

Anyone who’s ever played football knows it’s a red card.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 10, 2022, 04:48:28 PM
Anyone who’s ever played football knows it’s a red card.

I've played a lot of football, and I mean a lot (no comment Liam, yes I know, it would have been a long time ago  ;D ) of football. I'm still to see a replay but I honestly thought the red was harsh.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: richjonawba on February 10, 2022, 04:56:08 PM
I thought it was a clear red, it was a stupid, reckless, unnecessarily aggressive tackle from behind. I can't see it being over-turned.

Yet another example of Livermore over using aggression and enthusiasm in an attempt to cover for his lack of footballing brains or ability. Let's be honest the former are the only tools in his weaponry, and they are not conducive to being a good captain.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 10, 2022, 05:04:30 PM
Well, the club think differently and they're appealing it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on February 10, 2022, 05:08:01 PM
Well, the club think differently and they're appealing it.
I put in the in game thread last night it wasn't a red and anyone who had played football would know that. But got shot down by the usual suspects who know better ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gerry m on February 10, 2022, 05:14:32 PM
I put in the in game thread last night it wasn't a red and anyone who had played football would know that. But got shot down by the usual suspects who know better ;D

I thought it was a red to be honest. People will say other players get away with these sort of tackles but he has now got a reputation and that what's getting him sent off.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 10, 2022, 05:16:51 PM
I put in the in game thread last night it wasn't a red and anyone who had played football would know that. But got shot down by the usual suspects who know better ;D

What like myself a qualified referee? But yeah you’ve got more chance of Pereira coming back than that red card being overturned.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 10, 2022, 05:19:29 PM
I thought it was a red to be honest. People will say other players get away with these sort of tackles but he has now got a reputation and that what's getting him sent off.

That's fair enough Gerry. I will admit what I see as a red card may not be the same as other people. I was very adept at taking people out as I went through them with the ball. They tended to land quite heavily and I believe the pitch may have hurt them on impact than I ever did  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on February 10, 2022, 05:21:52 PM
What like myself a qualified referee? But yeah you’ve got more chance of Pereira coming back than that red card being overturned.
What is the actual wording for a sending off is it dangerous and reckless play and how does that relate to a player putting his hand in someone's face?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 10, 2022, 05:23:09 PM
What is the actual wording for a sending off is it dangerous and reckless play and how does that relate to a player putting his hand in someone's face?

Reckless = yellow

Excessive force, endangering the safety = red.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 10, 2022, 05:24:12 PM
Reckless = yellow

Excessive force, endangering the safety = red.

The example you mention there would be classed as violent conduct rather than SFP.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on February 10, 2022, 05:25:27 PM
Reckless = yellow

Excessive force, endangering the safety = red.
Thanks.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 10, 2022, 05:26:40 PM
Like for the red card in question you’d take into account the speed in which he goes in at, whether there’s a straight leg or scissor action and how high contact was made.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on February 10, 2022, 05:35:38 PM
At the time i thought it was a red card and after seeing the replays i still think so, Livermores last three sending offs have now all been very similar.

I also thought the Baldock challenge on Grady was okay, he got the ball and man and it was hard but fair, it did the job too as Grady s**t himself and barely did a thing after that which i am sure would of been Baldocks intention (not seen a replay of that so may be wrong)

There was one by touchline second half where Grant (i think) got caught very late, the ball had actually gone into a different part of the pitch by the time Grant was clattered and nothing came of that but again i havent seen a replay.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: timdon on February 10, 2022, 06:00:08 PM
Instead of appealing, we should be fining Livermore. Shocking disciplinary record. The tackle last night, like a few others from him this season, was stupid, unnecessary, late and reckless. He got what he deserved to be honest.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 10, 2022, 06:13:48 PM
I thought it was a clear red, it was a stupid, reckless, unnecessarily aggressive tackle from behind. I can't see it being over-turned.

Yet another example of Livermore over using aggression and enthusiasm in an attempt to cover for his lack of footballing brains or ability. Let's be honest the former are the only tools in his weaponry, and they are not conducive to being a good captain.

I was talking to some United fans on the way back to my car and they said that they thought it was very harsh and a yellow really.

I thought it was a stupid challenge as it gave the ref a decision to make.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: chonobaggie on February 10, 2022, 09:39:19 PM
I just don’t want to see him playing for us again. He was average when he joined us and now he’s a liability and one the reasons we struggle as a club.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on February 10, 2022, 11:53:59 PM
What like myself a qualified referee? But yeah you’ve got more chance of Pereira coming back than that red card being overturned.
Like that qualified referee last night, who hadn't got a clue? And not only on the Livermore sending off.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Aussie Baggie on February 11, 2022, 12:05:45 AM
Not defending JL. He went in, he fouled their guy, probably needlessly, and he gave the ref the decision to make. Until then he wasn't doing too badly, but this was not the action of a responsible team captain, and the ref desperately wanted to make his red card earn its keep. He was never going to show it to a Sheffield United player so thought it was his best chance.

My argument is that there needs to be a lot more clarity and conformity about such decisions. I have regularly seen similar tackles go either unpunished, or deemed worthy of only a warning, or at most a yellow card after a previous warning. We are getting players sent off when other clubs are not, and it would seem that as with so many other 'key' decisions referees in general seem only too ready to invoke the highest possible punishments against WBA players. Some of our 'supporters' also seem only too happy to collaborate with this especially when certain players are concerned.

Just taking last nights game and one set of incidents. Andy Carroll was consistently being manhandled and illegally shoved about by both of their central defenders without any protection or interference by the (generally abysmal) ref, yet as soon as Carroll stood up to them and started winning the battles he was deemed to be committing fouls, WHY?

Granted there are more 'in house'  reasons why we are failing, but whilst these levels of inconsistency are consistently working against us how can we expect to win many games? We are not protected from foul play when we are attacking, and are not allowed to tackle when defending. Far better teams than us would struggle under the same circumstances.

But there again my views on officials are already pretty well understood by now I think. 8)

Sorry mate, can you explain the part in bold a bit more. So silly of me I know but it sounds like you are saying that the ref went out there that night with the express aim of giving out a red card to someone and deliberately avoiding giving one out to Sheffield United players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on February 11, 2022, 07:10:41 AM
Our decline has gone hand in hand with jake Livermore (obviously its far deeper rooted than that). Hes been relegated twice bottled one promotion almost bottled a second. Involved in stealing a taxi whilst on a club trip. He attacked a fan in the stand. He got done for taking cocaine didnt he? Seen off pulis pardew moore billic big sam and VI

To think we moved claudio yacob on for him. Awful business. His discipline is shocking he provides next to no value for us. I was hoping he was off come summer but he got that extension.

He along with Phillips are overpaid and past it and need moving on to the next sucker. Offer them free transfer and see if big dave will take them to the owls
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adder on February 11, 2022, 07:50:46 AM
Our decline has gone hand in hand with jake Livermore (obviously its far deeper rooted than that). Hes been relegated twice bottled one promotion almost bottled a second. Involved in stealing a taxi whilst on a club trip. He attacked a fan in the stand. He got done for taking cocaine didnt he? Seen off pulis pardew moore billic big sam and VI

To think we moved claudio yacob on for him. Awful business. His discipline is shocking he provides next to no value for us. I was hoping he was off come summer but he got that extension.

He along with Phillips are overpaid and past it and need moving on to the next sucker. Offer them free transfer and see if big dave will take them to the owls
Think the cocaine episode should be left out of things. It was years ago, he wasn't in the best of places as he and his wife had lost a young one (still birth I think)...and the fan assault was allegedly due to the fan targeting him with abuse relating to the death of his child. I'm also not sure we did move Yacob on for him. We sort of moved on from Yacob's very specific and slightly limited role.
Livermore and our other midfielders need to swiftly realise that if you plough into challenges off your feet you run a high risk of a red. Phillips gets stick for allegedly ducking out of the odd challenge (not uncommon among wingers) but that is less of a problem to the team than players launching into challenges without any thought.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bosh on February 11, 2022, 11:01:31 AM
Why are we appealing the red card?  Silly tackle, got there late, end of story. Hope it's just a case of Bruce standing up for his players and not seeing Jake as a vital cog in the midfield machine that would be vitally missed
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 11, 2022, 11:08:04 AM
Why are we appealing the red card?  Silly tackle, got there late, end of story. Hope it's just a case of Bruce standing up for his players and not seeing Jake as a vital cog in the midfield machine that would be vitally missed

Think it's a bit of both, & probably testing the waters to see how he's viewed by the football authorities .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on February 11, 2022, 11:19:53 AM
Appeal unsuccessful. 4 game ban
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Groovephil on February 11, 2022, 11:25:49 AM
Appeal unsuccessful. 4 game ban

Also known as the blessing in disguise.

Will be very interesting to see how we do without him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 11, 2022, 11:26:35 AM
Never lost without JL in the team when he's been suspended this season. Let's go!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 11, 2022, 11:30:02 AM
So does Bruce recall him immediately his ban  finishes ? If he does then I’m sorry but Bruce won’t be any improvement on Val . Bring back Big Sam  !
Bruce hasn’t got mainland niles and Gallagher at his disposal
Interestingly many on here didn’t rate them, ones now in serie a …ones in the prem doing very well and being scouted by PSG
It might not be a popular opinion ,but I’d take Gallagher over Pererira for us…fortunately we don’t have the option of either 🙄
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 11, 2022, 11:45:36 AM
Superb news. Roll on the next four games where I expect performances and results will improve.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 11, 2022, 11:49:47 AM
How could it possibly have been rejected?? albion59 assured us all that if you had played football to a certain level it was clearly not a red card.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 11, 2022, 12:05:13 PM
Appeal unsuccessful. 4 game ban

I don't know how Bruce possibly thought it would be overturned. It would have to be a pretty obvious wrong call to have any chance, it was never that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on February 11, 2022, 12:14:01 PM
How could it possibly have been rejected?? albion59 assured us all that if you had played football to a certain level it was clearly not a red card.
He probably forgot what a soft game football has become I prefer Rugby Union now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 11, 2022, 12:19:16 PM
I don't know how Bruce possibly thought it would be overturned. It would have to be a pretty obvious wrong call to have any chance, it was never that.

I guess he didn't consider it that bad a challenge.  You never get things like that rejected though even if the challenge wasn't that bad - he'd had not have made any contact at all.  Still, shows that Bruce - and the club - didn't consider it literal GBH like some of our own fans did.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 11, 2022, 12:20:44 PM
Finally got to see a couple of replays of the challenge from a couple of different angles. Although Jake does get 'something' on the ball it's not a clean contact. At the same time his trailing leg takes Hourihane out and I now see why a straight red was given.

What I don't understand is how I've never seen Sheffield United's Baldock sent off for a number of similar challenges over the years. Plays the game very close to the edge does Mr. Baldock all be it as a full back and not in central midfield areas.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mooncat on February 11, 2022, 12:23:41 PM
Maybe the appeal was a show of 'support' for his new players, and more of a political move.
" we tried but they've upheld it" means the club has done what it can, rather than not appealing which would have resulted in the same outcome (they've got rid of the extra game ban for unsuccessful appeals).
But more importantly this makes a statement to the dressing room that Bruce 'has their backs' and will push for action to support them - something that could be key to the players 'accepting' the new gaffer and buying in to what he's trying to do.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 11, 2022, 12:48:50 PM
I don't get the comments about how many managers Livermore has seen off, at a club like this where we change managers willy nilly due to poor appointments players who've been here for a while will see managers come and go.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on February 11, 2022, 01:24:14 PM
Stupid decision to appeal that red card, didn’t think it was a sending off offence but FA are always going to back incompetent Refs why change a habit of a lifetime.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 11, 2022, 01:27:10 PM
Maybe the club wanted to give the midfield 4 games without Jake, rather than 3. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 11, 2022, 01:30:24 PM
I'd loved to have seen the clubs reasoning as to why it was not a red card.

Clear to everyone but Bruce and this club that it would not be over turned.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on February 11, 2022, 01:54:43 PM
Maybe the club wanted to give the midfield 4 games without Jake, rather than 3.

It was a 4 match ban anyhow as it's his second red card. Nothing to lose by appealing it I guess but glad it's been unsuccessful.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Gilsey 56 on February 11, 2022, 02:01:38 PM
I cannot, for the life of me, understand why you would appeal the decision, in my opinion the ref got it spot on, absolutely terrible tackle from our captain.
At least we can move on for now with other options, I doubt we would have if not for this.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on February 11, 2022, 03:20:15 PM
How could it possibly have been rejected?? albion59 assured us all that if you had played football to a certain level it was clearly not a red card.
I didn't assure anyone of anything if you read what i said, it was my opinion and that opinion stands. So I asked you to explain an earlier comment you made about me but you didn't reply, so not really interested in your pop at me now bigger things to worry about.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gerry m on February 11, 2022, 04:02:07 PM
No real surprise to be honest. Silly challenge and as i've said before he has got a reputation with Refs.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 11, 2022, 04:33:26 PM
I'd loved to have seen the clubs reasoning as to why it was not a red card.

Clear to everyone but Bruce and this club that it would not be over turned.

Be some guff like “he had every right to go for it” or “there was no malice in the challenge”

Whoever has told Bruce to appeal that should be sacked immediately.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on February 11, 2022, 04:42:12 PM
Be some guff like “he had every right to go for it” or “there was no malice in the challenge”

Whoever has told Bruce to appeal that should be sacked immediately.
Livermore? :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 11, 2022, 04:47:31 PM
Be some guff like “he had every right to go for it” or “there was no malice in the challenge”

Whoever has told Bruce to appeal that should be sacked immediately.

Err          Why?

I would think Bruce told Bruce to appeal the red card. It was worth the try, & we're no worse off than we would have been if we hadn't tried.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on February 11, 2022, 05:08:54 PM
Err          Why?

I would think Bruce told Bruce to appeal the red card. It was worth the try, & we're no worse off than we would have been if we hadn't tried.

I very much doubt the appeal was based solely on Steve Bruce’s view of the incident.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 11, 2022, 05:12:33 PM
SB may have been considering a bigger picture when appealing Jake’s red card.

As the new boss, he may well have been sending a message to other players that he has their backs and will support and defend each and everyone of them in public against the odds.

That approach builds relationships and confidence amongst the players knowing that the gaffer is on their side and many of them will embrace and reciprocate, hopefully, with improved performances

Privately, we will never know the content of SB’s conversation with Jake or other players and that’s how it should be.

Personally, I consider that approach, if indeed that’s what it was, to be a sound man management approach and technique.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 11, 2022, 05:23:58 PM
I very much doubt the appeal was based solely on Steve Bruce’s view of the incident.

Who else?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sconesy on February 11, 2022, 05:43:09 PM
SB may have been considering a bigger picture when appealing Jake’s red card.

As the new boss, he may well have been sending a message to other players that he has their backs and will support and defend each and everyone of them in public against the odds.

That approach builds relationships and confidence amongst the players knowing that the gaffer is on their side and many of them will embrace and reciprocate, hopefully, with improved performances

Privately, we will never know the content of SB’s conversation with Jake or other players and that’s how it should be.

Personally, I consider that approach, if indeed that’s what it was, to be a sound man management approach and technique.

Excellent post, and IMO the most likely scenario. A good man-manager would never publicly throw a player of theirs under the bus.

Behind the scenes, there will undoubtedly be different thoughts and conversations going on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tex on February 11, 2022, 06:38:17 PM
let's hope that's the way this went down. I thought Livermore was improving but he has a self-destruct button and pushes regularly. His disciplinary record is a big reason not to select him going forward. You can't have a team anchored in the middle by a player that is liable to be suspended for a quarter of your games and will make you play two or three games with 10 men.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on February 11, 2022, 07:48:01 PM
Saddens me that some are rejoicing in the fact that one of our players didn’t win his appeal against red card. I am not for one minute claiming that JL is a great player. However, to those who think we have lots of options without him, I cannot see them. Will be interesting to see.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 11, 2022, 07:53:20 PM
Saddens me that some are rejoicing in the fact that one of our players didn’t win his appeal against red card. I am not for one minute claiming that JL is a great player. However, to those who think we have lots of options without him, I cannot see them. Will be interesting to see.

I hope he never plays for us again. I'm sick of having to like liabilities just because they are signed up to us.

One fact, we are unbeaten this season when Livermore hasn't played. OK its not an exact stat but it doesn't exactly suggest he's critical to us does it?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 11, 2022, 08:24:00 PM
I hope he never plays for us again. I'm sick of having to like liabilities just because they are signed up to us.

One fact, we are unbeaten this season when Livermore hasn't played. OK its not an exact stat but it doesn't exactly suggest he's critical to us does it?

To be honest Atomic, I don't get the venom.

There are people in this country that are shafting you far more than Jake Livermore.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on February 11, 2022, 08:36:55 PM
Livermore is a liability he should be a  player who at best comes off the bench not good enough for a regular spot.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on February 11, 2022, 09:34:34 PM
Livermore is a liability he should be a  player who at best comes off the bench not good enough for a regular spot.
Maybe in some teams but with our squad we don’t have that luxury. He is better than Molumby , Reach and Mowatt
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on February 11, 2022, 09:53:12 PM
If he’s better than Molumby , Reach and Mowatt then we are in the cart ! Without doubt  JL is the worst overall player to get a  regular starting place in  the side . I honestly can’t think of any part of his game that is an asset to the team .If a Captain is supposed to lead by example on the pitch then what sort of example is he showing?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on February 11, 2022, 10:35:33 PM
I hope he never plays for us again. I'm sick of having to like liabilities just because they are signed up to us.

One fact, we are unbeaten this season when Livermore hasn't played. OK its not an exact stat but it doesn't exactly suggest he's critical to us does it?

I never said he was critical to us. Just disagree with those who are almost rejoicing his absence.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 11, 2022, 11:52:08 PM
I never said he was critical to us. Just disagree with those who are almost rejoicing his absence.
Sad isn't it mate? such vitriol
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on February 12, 2022, 06:53:06 AM
If nothing else it forces the manager to look at alternatives
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 12, 2022, 07:33:40 AM
To be honest Atomic, I don't get the venom.

There are people in this country that are shafting you far more than Jake Livermore.

The Sheff Utd game was the final straw for me. I've defended Jake Livermore plenty of times and have always said he had more value to us than others claim but not any more.

Every player makes mistakes they are human but at the end of the day I am a West Bromwich Albion fan not a Jake Livermore fan and when Jake Livermore doesn't learn and he keeps on continuously doing things that harm West Bromwich Albion through his own stupidity, then I'm afraid I'm not going to deem that acceptable.

He's become a liability and I don't want him at the club next season. I make no apology for putting the interests of my beloved club first.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on February 12, 2022, 08:33:15 AM
The Sheff Utd game was the final straw for me. I've defended Jake Livermore plenty of times and have always said he had more value to us than others claim but not any more.

Every player makes mistakes they are human but at the end of the day I am a West Bromwich Albion fan not a Jake Livermore fan and when Jake Livermore doesn't learn and he keeps on continuously doing things that harm West Bromwich Albion through his own stupidity, then I'm afraid I'm not going to deem that acceptable.

He's become a liability and I don't want him at the club next season. I make no apology for putting the interests of my beloved club first.

This is not aimed specifically at you, & I applaud you & others for putting the interests of the football club first, but the vitriolic tone of some of the comments on this forum is becoming quite scary.
Add that to the same atmosphere at games, & it starts to become uncomfortable to go any more.
IMO, we need to tone it down a bit.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albion79 on February 12, 2022, 08:48:27 AM
This is a chance for the other midfielders to have a run of games, if they play well i imagine they will keep the shirt, Bruce seems that type of manager (val got it wrong bringing Livermore in after the Coventry game)

People moaning about how bad Livermore is, yet now he is out there is no standout player to come in, Mowatt has been poor for months, Molumby seems a younger but worse version of Livermore so far and when he last had a chance to cement a place got sent off himself for the same type of challenge as Livermore.

 TGH has been a wide player all his youth career but now seems to be deemed the answer in centre midfield after less than 10 starts as a pro, that shows how bad our centre midfield options are, However they do now have a chance and whoever the combination is good luck to them.

The midfield is short on numbers and quality and has to be revamped in the summer, i think Livermore ideally needs to be moved on for his and the clubs sake, his game has always been getting stuck in, offering a physical presence and just doing the simple stuff, as he is getting older he wont be able to do that from centre midfielder and i dont think he has the skillset to reinvent himself as a playmaker so if he is with us next season i would hope its as a centre half where he has played numerous times before during his career.

I think he should have the on field captaincy taken off him, but keep him as club captain as he takes the role very serious and is good at it but we do need a new on the pitch captain (similar to how it worked with Fletcher and Brunt)

Although not as important as cricket or rugby, a football captain still is important, most successful teams its obvious who the captain is, some players dont need an armband and are natural leaders (jonas olsson an obvious one)

The worry with this squad is that there are no standout captains, let alone natural leaders, O’Shea seems to be a good choice, Bartley maybe next but he always seems to be blaming and moaning others and doing a lot of pointing, quite often after his own errors and there is just something about him that doesnt feel right as a captain to me.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 12, 2022, 08:51:59 AM
This is not aimed specifically at you, & I applaud you & others for putting the interests of the football club first, but the vitriolic tone of some of the comments on this forum is becoming quite scary.
Add that to the same atmosphere at games, & it starts to become uncomfortable to go any more.
IMO, we need to tone it down a bit.

Unfortunately, you have a scenario where the majority of supporters are sharper and more intelligent than the Manager running the show.

Hence mass frustration.

It doesn't reflect well on the competence of the majority of professional Football Managers in England, and it's a view I've held for a long time now.

Steve Bruce is just the next man in the firing line.

If long standing fans are sick of the sight of Livermore, Phillips, Reach etc they are entitled to that view.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbastrollers on February 12, 2022, 08:54:26 AM
Maybe the appeal was a show of 'support' for his new players, and more of a political move.
" we tried but they've upheld it" means the club has done what it can, rather than not appealing which would have resulted in the same outcome (they've got rid of the extra game ban for unsuccessful appeals).
But more importantly this makes a statement to the dressing room that Bruce 'has their backs' and will push for action to support them - something that could be key to the players 'accepting' the new gaffer and buying in to what he's trying to do.

Well done, Mooncat , I agree wholeheartedly.
Bruce will quickly come to realise what kind of support we have here at the Hawthorns!?
Ferguson won a Champions League and countless Premierships  with the World against us attitude. Would be far smarter if some just shut up and let Steve Bruce get on with the job. I feel confident that he knows what he wants from his players and who can give it to him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 12, 2022, 09:09:53 AM
Unfortunately, you have a scenario where the majority of supporters are sharper and more intelligent than the Manager running the show.

Hence mass frustration.

It doesn't reflect well on the competence of the majority of professional Football Managers in England, and it's a view I've held for a long time now.

Steve Bruce is just the next man in the firing line.

If long standing fans are sick of the sight of Livermore, Phillips, Reach etc they are entitled to that view.

I'm not quite sure you've worded this post as well as you could've but I understand the point you are making and I think there is plenty of truth in it.

There is so much frustration and anger at the constant mismanagement of the club from the owner downwards. The club is going backwards because of this mismanagement and supporters are angry at it, they feel and are largely helpless, there's nothing they can do but watch on with no imminent sign that things are really going to get any better

I agree with baggiejohn that the atmosphere at the games has to change, it helps no-one when the crowd is toxic or even apathetic but you can understand why the crowd are as they are.

You have local rivals Villa and Wolves taken over by mega rich owners, splashing the cash and showing ambition and as usual Albion are blundering along and we're getting left behind.

Where's the hope? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Oldbury24 on February 12, 2022, 09:26:55 AM
I'm not quite sure you've worded this post as well as you could've but I understand the point you are making and I think there is plenty of truth in it.

There is so much frustration and anger at the constant mismanagement of the club from the owner downwards. The club is going backwards because of this mismanagement and supporters are angry at it, they feel and are largely helpless, there's nothing they can do but watch on with no imminent sign that things are really going to get any better

I agree with baggiejohn that the atmosphere at the games has to change, it helps no-one when the crowd is toxic or even apathetic but you can understand why the crowd are as they are.

You have local rivals Villa and Wolves taken over by mega rich owners, splashing the cash and showing ambition and as usual Albion are blundering along and we're getting left behind.

Where's the hope? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel?
[/b]

A bit off topic for the Jake thread but....

I genuinely think that for most fans, hope is simply to be in the mix for the playoffs whilst scoring a few goals along the way.    Even that had dissapeared under Val those last few weeks. 

Longer term, if you look at the money swishing around the PL, all we can genuinely hope to be is in that middle league between bottom six PL, Champonship top six.   The old "yo-yo" tag does fit.   Then you either hope for new owners to come in OR to unearth another Dashworth/Roy combination.

Bringing this back to Jake.  I would question if he is good enough to be Captain for a side in that middle league? 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 12, 2022, 09:51:37 AM
I'm not quite sure you've worded this post as well as you could've but I understand the point you are making and I think there is plenty of truth in it.

There is so much frustration and anger at the constant mismanagement of the club from the owner downwards. The club is going backwards because of this mismanagement and supporters are angry at it, they feel and are largely helpless, there's nothing they can do but watch on with no imminent sign that things are really going to get any better

I agree with baggiejohn that the atmosphere at the games has to change, it helps no-one when the crowd is toxic or even apathetic but you can understand why the crowd are as they are.

You have local rivals Villa and Wolves taken over by mega rich owners, splashing the cash and showing ambition and as usual Albion are blundering along and we're getting left behind.

Where's the hope? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel?

Exactly, all about decision making at the club.

I'll approach this from a different angle.

WBA is drenched in history and star players starting from Jesse Pennington etc. In order to be revered you need talent, execution and longevity at that club.

I would guess we are stuck in the past, we haven't moved on with the modern game, the outlook is dated.

The fatst pace of football means fitness and athleticism is important.  In my view in recent times we held on too long with Brunt and Morrison plus others and we've fell into the same trap again with Livermore and Phillips.

Teams in 2021/22 aren't beating us with exceptional skill, it's by slicing through a slow and ponderous midfield.

At the other end end there is no actual creativity.

Have a look at XG we are hardly ever out performed game by game.  There is no big skill gap where we fall short.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on February 12, 2022, 09:54:03 AM
I'm not quite sure you've worded this post as well as you could've but I understand the point you are making and I think there is plenty of truth in it.

There is so much frustration and anger at the constant mismanagement of the club from the owner downwards. The club is going backwards because of this mismanagement and supporters are angry at it, they feel and are largely helpless, there's nothing they can do but watch on with no imminent sign that things are really going to get any better

I agree with baggiejohn that the atmosphere at the games has to change, it helps no-one when the crowd is toxic or even apathetic but you can understand why the crowd are as they are.

You have local rivals Villa and Wolves taken over by mega rich owners, splashing the cash and showing ambition and as usual Albion are blundering along and we're getting left behind.

Where's the hope? Where is the light at the end of the tunnel?
This sadly sums up where we are we can blame the manager and players but the root problem is Lai the fans know this hence the frustration.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on February 12, 2022, 03:08:30 PM
This is a chance for the other midfielders to have a run of games, if they play well i imagine they will keep the shirt, Bruce seems that type of manager (val got it wrong bringing Livermore in after the Coventry game)

People moaning about how bad Livermore is, yet now he is out there is no standout player to come in, Mowatt has been poor for months, Molumby seems a younger but worse version of Livermore so far and when he last had a chance to cement a place got sent off himself for the same type of challenge as Livermore.

 TGH has been a wide player all his youth career but now seems to be deemed the answer in centre midfield after less than 10 starts as a pro, that shows how bad our centre midfield options are, However they do now have a chance and whoever the combination is good luck to them.

The midfield is short on numbers and quality and has to be revamped in the summer, i think Livermore ideally needs to be moved on for his and the clubs sake, his game has always been getting stuck in, offering a physical presence and just doing the simple stuff, as he is getting older he wont be able to do that from centre midfielder and i dont think he has the skillset to reinvent himself as a playmaker so if he is with us next season i would hope its as a centre half where he has played numerous times before during his career.

I think he should have the on field captaincy taken off him, but keep him as club captain as he takes the role very serious and is good at it but we do need a new on the pitch captain (similar to how it worked with Fletcher and Brunt)

Although not as important as cricket or rugby, a football captain still is important, most successful teams its obvious who the captain is, some players dont need an armband and are natural leaders (jonas olsson an obvious one)

The worry with this squad is that there are no standout captains, let alone natural leaders, O’Shea seems to be a good choice, Bartley maybe next but he always seems to be blaming and moaning others and doing a lot of pointing, quite often after his own errors and there is just something about him that doesnt feel right as a captain to me.

Players like molumby may feel that whatever they did under Val….they were going to be binned as soon as his favourites were available again….hardly motivating is it?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 13, 2022, 06:08:00 PM
After the Sheffield United game, here are some Livermore stats (since he signed for us):

5 years
9 managers
7 goals
5 red cards
2 relegations
1 stolen taxi

For me, he should have gone after the Moore / Shan season. He's been a big factor in the decline of the club in recent years, and I can't wait to see the back of him. Stupid decisions like going into that tackle on Wednesday are why.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: NJS on February 13, 2022, 07:15:55 PM
After the Sheffield United game, here are some Livermore stats (since he signed for us):

5 years
9 managers
7 goals
5 red cards
2 relegations
1 stolen taxi

For me, he should have gone after the Moore / Shan season. He's been a big factor in the decline of the club in recent years, and I can't wait to see the back of him. Stupid decisions like going into that tackle on Wednesday are why.

Is this causation or just correlation.  I suspect it's the latter.  The woes of the past few years cannot be laid entirely at JL's feet.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on February 14, 2022, 03:30:38 PM
After the Sheffield United game, here are some Livermore stats (since he signed for us):

5 years
9 managers
7 goals
5 red cards
2 relegations
1 stolen taxi

For me, he should have gone after the Moore / Shan season. He's been a big factor in the decline of the club in recent years, and I can't wait to see the back of him. Stupid decisions like going into that tackle on Wednesday are why.

you missed out the winning goals against Spurs and Hull & QPR (more important than being part of a group of players that stole a taxi) and the promotion under Bilic.

We need to improve on all our midfielders though, starting with Livermore but also including Mowatt...thankfully we can hopefully send Molumby back to Brighton reserves.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on February 14, 2022, 03:34:29 PM
After the Sheffield United game, here are some Livermore stats (since he signed for us):

5 years
9 managers
7 goals
5 red cards
2 relegations
1 stolen taxi

For me, he should have gone after the Moore / Shan season. He's been a big factor in the decline of the club in recent years, and I can't wait to see the back of him. Stupid decisions like going into that tackle on Wednesday are why.
Why do you list relegation but not promotion ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on February 14, 2022, 03:46:23 PM
Is this causation or just correlation.  I suspect it's the latter.  The woes of the past few years cannot be laid entirely at JL's feet.

I do like him as a person and will always rate him for his interview after we got promoted under Bilic and I do think he tries hard.

However, I do think he sums up our past 5 years quite nicely. I.e. He cost quite a lot at the time and underperformed, whilst simultatenously declining in form as the team declines around him. I believe he should have gone a couple of seasons ago and is very much a plodder - however it's not really his fault and it's more a problem of the board rather than any particular player or individual.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 14, 2022, 03:57:09 PM
Why do you list relegation but not promotion ?
Oh, the promotion was nothing to do with Jake mate, didn't you know?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on February 14, 2022, 04:48:56 PM
the sparseness of the midfield options is stark, especially when we have lent a bloke to stoke all season and sufficiently drunk off another such that he has walked away without a club to go to. (Sawyers and Snodders), now I know they are not world beaters and Sawyers is crocked now but it does seem frankly giss poor management under the circumstances.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 14, 2022, 06:14:41 PM
Has anyone ever thought a lot of Jake's latter day midfield partners haven't always been up to much either?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sconesy on February 14, 2022, 07:45:31 PM
Has anyone ever thought a lot of Jake's latter day midfield partners haven't always been up to much either?

yes, Pereira was a clown. Some might say he carried him being a 40 mil player 🙄.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 14, 2022, 10:34:58 PM
yes, Pereira was a clown. Some might say he carried him being a 40 mil player 🙄.

You could also argue that having Livermore sitting in to win the ball back and break up play (it must have been him because no way was Sawyers ever doing that!) allowed Pierera to play as expansively as he did.

Anyway, hard to tell if he was missed today.  I will say the midfield without him wasn't any better at all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on February 15, 2022, 08:08:35 AM
yes, Pereira was a clown. Some might say he carried him being a 40 mil player 🙄.

Pereira didn't play alongside him in midfield  :-X .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBrom on February 15, 2022, 06:34:34 PM
Think this latest ban may be a blessing for us and force the manager into trying some different personnel and potentially formations. Although to be honest it’s not as though we’re flush with central midfielders any more and I’m not sure the Molumby/Mowatt combination offered anything more than we usually get with Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on February 15, 2022, 06:48:38 PM
Problem at club for a long time keeping and even rewarding player’s with extensions that should have been moved on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on February 15, 2022, 07:12:42 PM
Think this latest ban may be a blessing for us and force the manager into trying some different personnel and potentially formations. Although to be honest it’s not as though we’re flush with central midfielders any more and I’m not sure the Molumby/Mowatt combination offered anything more than we usually get with Jake.

I am sure, the Molumby and Mowatt combo was no improvement whatsoever. Nothing personal against the lad but I do hope we don’t sign Molumby permanently.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 15, 2022, 07:28:02 PM
you missed out the winning goals against Spurs and Hull & QPR (more important than being part of a group of players that stole a taxi) and the promotion under Bilic.

We need to improve on all our midfielders though, starting with Livermore but also including Mowatt...thankfully we can hopefully send Molumby back to Brighton reserves.

If you genuinely believe that then I worry.

None of the players involved in that incident should have played for us again.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on February 15, 2022, 07:29:00 PM
Oh, the promotion was nothing to do with Jake mate, didn't you know?

Given how often the midfield had a gaping hole in the middle, it was probably nothing to do with Sawyers or Livermore  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 16, 2022, 08:13:36 AM
Jake Livermore was good in the opening stages of the season, came back fit after pre-season, determined after being sidelined since last season.  As the realities of a 46 game season on a 32 year old became apparent, he has been found wanting although has continued to give 100% effort and application:

WITHOUT LIVERMORE STARTING                              
%           P   W   D   L   F   A   PTS   PPG   FPG   APG
22.58%   7   3   4   0   7   2   13   1.86   1.00   0.29

WITH LIVERMORE STARTING                              
%           P   W   D   L   F   A   PTS   PPG   FPG   APG
77.42%   24   9   6   9   27   24   33   1.38   1.13   1.00

LAST 14 WITH JL
%           P   W   D   L   F   A   PTS   PPG   FPG   APG
45.16%   14   3   2   9   7   16   11   0.79   0.50   1.14

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 16, 2022, 08:41:18 AM
Your last 14 with Livermore really is stretching the argument somewhat. Are you going to apply such a biased argument to the rest of the players too? Or do you merely save the criticisms for the poor patch of form for Livermore.

What about the statistical breakdown of the first ten games with Livermore? Or does not prove the point you want to make  ::)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 16, 2022, 08:54:16 AM
Your last 14 with Livermore really is stretching the argument somewhat. Are you going to apply such a biased argument to the rest of the players too? Or do you merely save the criticisms for the poor patch of form for Livermore.

What about the statistical breakdown of the first ten games with Livermore? Or does not prove the point you want to make  ::)

If you read my opening statement, I praised Livermore for the start made to the season. 

As expected he got tired implementing Ismael's pressing game and the general intensity of the Championship.

We have come out on the wrong side of 0-1 scorelines and seem susceptible to opposition counter attacks with a central midfield lacking in pace.

I have faced opposition to my views on Livermore, the stats do kind of back up my opinion.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on February 16, 2022, 09:04:01 AM
If you read my opening statement, I praised Livermore for the start made to the season. 

As expected he got tired implementing Ismael's pressing game and the general intensity of the Championship.

We have come out on the wrong side of 0-1 scorelines and seem susceptible to opposition counter attacks with a central midfield lacking in pace.

I have faced opposition to my views on Livermore, the stats do kind of back up my opinion.

Indeed, but you didn’t back up that assertion with any stats, like you do for the last 14 games.

You have not faced any real opposition to your views on Livermore - the majority of this forum are probably aligned in how they view Livermore, his limitations and that our midfield requires a revamp.

The only opposition to your views on this matter is against the vociferous, repetitive nature of your posts which have often failed to suggest any alternative changes that you would make.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 16, 2022, 09:16:05 AM
Based on Monday nights game, my personal observations were that I didn't see that our midfield was improved or enhanced in anyway without Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 16, 2022, 09:20:30 AM
Based on Monday nights game, my personal observations were that I didn't see that our midfield was improved or enhanced in anyway without Jake

It wasn't any worse either.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 16, 2022, 09:23:06 AM
Indeed, but you didn’t back up that assertion with any stats, like you do for the last 14 games.

You have not faced any real opposition to your views on Livermore - the majority of this forum are probably aligned in how they view Livermore, his limitations and that our midfield requires a revamp.

The only opposition to your views on this matter is against the vociferous, repetitive nature of your posts which have often failed to suggest any alternative changes that you would make.

Some points:

1) On this forum, I was the 1st (or close to 1st) to identify Livermore's limitations.
2) Some posters think Livermore is superior to either Mowatt, TGH, Molumby or all 3.
3) I have said numerous times we need a No10, said elsewhere try Castro, what have we got to lose?
4) I have stated Bruce's template is to win games 1-0 (there is a severe lack of goals in the team).
5) Relating to point 4) the inclusion of Livermore increases the likelihood of conceding goals.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on February 16, 2022, 09:52:02 AM
The sponsored silence worked for a while I guess........ :(

Albionfan was spot on when he said that there was no noticeable difference in the midfield without Jake on Monday night. They are all very much the same, with the exception of TGH.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 16, 2022, 10:38:12 AM
Can we see "Last 14 with SJ", and then Bartley, then Mowtt, etc?

None of the players have a good record over the last 14, seems a bit vindictive to highlight one player who has played in those.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on February 16, 2022, 11:07:28 AM
In general, on/off analysis in football isn't to be trusted. Not only does football have a low positive outcome per team per game ( it's rare to get more than a few goals between the two teams), there are 22 players on the pitch, so each player only has 1/22 impact on the events on the pitch, on average. This is unlike basketball where on/off is used more, but even then there are major limitations that have been identified and models built to overcome them.

You have to account for the strength of the opposition, home or away, fixture congestion and minutes played by all players, and then ideally you use a metric other than goals because there's an element of luck involved in scoring a goal.

My point is, we might be better without Livermore in the team, but on/off analysis is fraught with problems, so I'm not sure this says as much as hoped.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: darbolina on February 16, 2022, 11:20:49 AM
After seeing the car crash midfield comprising Reach , Mowatt and Molumby the other night, it made me think until we can shift on Livermore in the summer, he should play a holding role and not expect him to run around considering his lack of fitness/ pace will just get him sent off anyway as he lunges around. This means we can also play TGH in place of one of the three worst midfielders we've had for a long time.

Considering Livermore a better option than Reach, Mowatt and Molumby is a very low bar mind! Wow , can't believe we became so bad so quickly..............
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 16, 2022, 11:22:18 AM
Livermore ain't going nowhere in the summer. Who is going to.offer him our wages?

Our only hope is someone offers him multiple years really.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 16, 2022, 11:26:16 AM
Livermore ain't going nowhere in the summer. Who is going to.offer him our wages?

Our only hope is someone offers him multiple years really.

Precisely this, there is a reason why he extended the contract for a further year, because he would not get half his wage here anywhere else.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 16, 2022, 11:28:39 AM
For Balance:


WITHOUT MOWATT   
                        
P   W   D   L   F   A   PTS   PPG   FPG   APG
8   3   1   4   9   8   10   1.25   1.13   1.00

WITH MOWATT                           
P   W   D   L   F   A   PTS   PPG   FPG   APG
23   9   9   5   25   18   36   1.57   1.09   0.78

LAST 11 WITH AM
P   W   D   L   F   A   PTS   PPG   FPG   APG
11   2   5   4   4   9   11   1.00   0.36   0.82

So while Mowatt has been poor lately no doubt, still better stats.


Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: darbolina on February 16, 2022, 11:38:40 AM
Livermore ain't going nowhere in the summer. Who is going to.offer him our wages?

Our only hope is someone offers him multiple years really.

We have to pay him off. Yet another example of shocking contractual management by the club (along with Johnstone leaving on a free).

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 16, 2022, 11:40:12 AM
After seeing the car crash midfield comprising Reach , Mowatt and Molumby the other night, it made me think until we can shift on Livermore in the summer, he should play a holding role and not expect him to run around considering his lack of fitness/ pace will just get him sent off anyway as he lunges around. This means we can also play TGH in place of one of the three worst midfielders we've had for a long time.

Considering Livermore a better option than Reach, Mowatt and Molumby is a very low bar mind! Wow , can't believe we became so bad so quickly..............

Car Crash midfield v Blackburn?  We drew 0-0.

I thought we were slightly improved.

The previous 3 league games were all lost 0-2.

I don't know how having Livermore in the side refraining from tackling helps us?  It will just result in more opposition breaks and more shots on our goal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 16, 2022, 11:44:32 AM
I don't think anyone is saying Livermore is better than Mowatt.  Some seem to think Livermore is some kind of anti-christ of football, but looking at his record, he's not significantly worse than Mowatt who people don't treat anywhere near as harshly. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: darbolina on February 16, 2022, 11:51:30 AM
Car Crash midfield v Blackburn?  We drew 0-0.

I thought we were slightly improved.

The previous 3 league games were all lost 0-2.

I don't know how having Livermore in the side refraining from tackling helps us?  It will just result in more opposition breaks and more shots on our goal.

Car crash in terms of quality. It's the worst midfield in terms of quality I've seen for a long time (even in the 90s we had Sneekes, Donovan, Bradley who could pass. Reach , Mulumby and Mowatt just erm run and have little quality. I noticed a lack of tracking back on a couple of occasions in the 2nd half too. If they don't track what do they offer - a body on the pitch? Andy Johnson and Mcinnes in Megson's team had limited quality but they made up for it in terms of commitment and breaking up play. My comment about Livermore not putting himself about was a bit tongue in cheek!



Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 16, 2022, 12:01:22 PM
Car crash in terms of quality. It's the worst midfield in terms of quality I've seen for a long time (even in the 90s we had Sneekes, Donovan, Bradley who could pass. Reach , Mulumby and Mowatt just erm run and have little quality. I noticed a lack of tracking back on a couple of occasions in the 2nd half too. If they don't track what do they offer - a body on the pitch? Andy Johnson and Mcinnes in Megson's team had limited quality but they made up for it in terms of commitment and breaking up play. My comment about Livermore not putting himself about was a bit tongue in cheek!


I agree the midfield quality is poor.

But I would argue we have been worse for a significant amount of games with Livermore & Mowatt.

Crucially, we started leaking goals too, an average of 2 over last 3 games.

Surely we have to look for 1-0 wins & that means keeping the back door shut.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 16, 2022, 12:02:29 PM
We have to pay him off. Yet another example of shocking contractual management by the club (along with Johnstone leaving on a free).

I just can't see it. I would like to see him gone at end of season don't get me wrong, he's too old now but i think he will end his career here.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on February 16, 2022, 12:41:01 PM
Based on Monday nights game, my personal observations were that I didn't see that our midfield was improved or enhanced in anyway without Jake

This is 100% true. We all know of his limitations. But to blame all of our woes on JL, as some like to do, is just wrong.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 16, 2022, 01:07:19 PM
This is 100% true. We all know of his limitations. But to blame all of our woes on JL, as some like to do, is just wrong.

We know there are limitations in other areas of the field, but the biggest area for concern is the lack of quality in midfield.

You are looking for small gains (as with Carroll for Hugill).  Another small gain might be the return of O'Shea?

We have no Koumas or Pereira to win games with individual brilliance.

Getting the right XI is imperative for Bruce.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: darbolina on February 16, 2022, 03:11:10 PM
We know there are limitations in other areas of the field, but the biggest area for concern is the lack of quality in midfield.

You are looking for small gains (as with Carroll for Hugill).  Another small gain might be the return of O'Shea?

We have no Koumas or Pereira to win games with individual brilliance.

Getting the right XI is imperative for Bruce.

Definately, not only do we have a poor midfield but Ismael played with a very light midfield (playing long) which meant Livermore and Mowatt were also overrun. Ismael the tactical genuis!

The best we can do is patch up the midfield for the remaining games and replace them all in the summer although I do think Mowatt could be a good Championship player if used in the right way!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bosh on February 16, 2022, 04:06:32 PM
Still think Jake looked at his best this season when he played centre back. Now if we play with 4 at the back and have him sit in front of the defense as a blocker and bring it out from the back then that could work. His midfield play resembles when Brunty used to lose the ball and you knew that 20 seconds he would get booked as would have to win that ball back at all costs and tackling was never his strong suit.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 16, 2022, 05:45:03 PM
It wasn't any worse either.

But surely, it’s about improvement?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: festerp on February 16, 2022, 06:08:28 PM
I just can't see it. I would like to see him gone at end of season don't get me wrong, he's too old now but i think he will end his career here.

Wonder if anyone has Vinnie Jones' number.  Maybe Vinnie can get Jake a role as an enforcer in a movie and entice him to retire for a pursuit of Hollywood riches.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 16, 2022, 06:11:19 PM
Wonder if anyone has Vinnie Jones' number.  Maybe Vinnie can get Jake a role as an enforcer in a movie and entice him to retire for a pursuit of Hollywood riches.

I'd be up for that and i promise i'd watch his film if it helps him move on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 16, 2022, 08:23:45 PM
But surely, it’s about improvement?
Worry not lads, he will soon be back
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 19, 2022, 06:02:24 PM
Doin bostin without Jake ay we?
That Mowatts a gud un though ay e?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on February 19, 2022, 06:17:45 PM
Doin bostin without Jake ay we?
That Mowatts a gud un though ay e?

Desperately missing his goals & assists.

On the subject of today's midfield I thought Molumby was a crab, just passed it sideways all match. Offered next to nothing. TGH should be playing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BAGGIE5 on February 19, 2022, 06:23:59 PM
Lets be honest. However rubbish you think he is or good? Luton today is why he plays every game.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 19, 2022, 07:11:57 PM
Lets be honest. However rubbish you think he is or good? Luton today is why he plays every game.

Our midfield is poor with him but awful without him, for all his faults its obvious why he is a guaranteed starter.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on February 19, 2022, 07:36:45 PM
Our midfield is poor with him but awful without him, for all his faults its obvious why he is a guaranteed starter.

What, like away at Coventry?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 19, 2022, 09:21:27 PM
What, like away at Coventry?

You keep clinging on to that one game!  We didn't have anyone in the middle today even try to win the ball back.  There was times where there were acres of space and we didn't have any of the 3 midfielders in it so Luton could just run through us.

On a side note, thought it was nice that he went to the game today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 19, 2022, 09:27:08 PM
What, like away at Coventry?

We're doing absolutely fantastic without him ain't we? shows that Livermore is not the issue in this side or at least not the only one which given some of the stuff that gets posted seems to suggest he is.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on February 19, 2022, 09:29:48 PM
Let’s be honest we are currently useless with or without him .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 19, 2022, 09:31:38 PM
Let’s be honest we are currently useless with or without him .

Yep.

He needs to go in the summer regardless.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on February 19, 2022, 09:34:15 PM
Yep.

He needs to go in the summer regardless.

Yep, agreed but the recruitment has to better all round
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Blowee on February 19, 2022, 09:34:44 PM
Yep.

He needs to go in the summer regardless.
He isn’t going anywhere. He has a contract on probably twice the salary that anyone else would pay him. Along with Phillips and Bartley he will be a drain on our budget. Like it or not they will still be around our first team set up for at least another 1-3 seasons.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 19, 2022, 09:37:30 PM
He isn’t going anywhere. He has a contract on probably twice the salary that anyone else would pay him. Along with Phillips and Bartley he will be a drain on our budget. Like it or not they will still be around our first team set up for at least another 1-3 seasons.

Well they shouldn't be. Even if it means paying off their contracts they need shipping out. The club needs to get ruthless some of these players are part of the decay of the club and they need binning. If we absolutely can't get rid get them away from the first team squad, loan them out, whatever.

I'd be on to their agents nagging at them to find a move.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Blowee on February 19, 2022, 09:50:37 PM
Well they shouldn't be. Even if it means paying off their contracts they need shipping out. The club needs to get ruthless some of these players are part of the decay of the club and they need binning. If we absolutely can't get rid get them away from the first team squad, loan them out, whatever.

I'd be on to their agents nagging at them to find a move.
I agree with you but don’t think for a minute it will happen. If it were up to me we would keep Johnson, O’Shea, Dike, Diangana and the youth players on the fringes but the rest would go.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 20, 2022, 07:15:26 AM
I get why this guy starts matches now.

I didn't fully appreciate just how pathetically mentally weak this squad is.

JL has had to cope with a lot of trauma in his personal life a long time ago.  He has probably built up swathes of mental toughness.

This player shows more character than any other member of the squad. 

I have it on good authority he is the best trainer and approaches every training session as if it's a match situation.

Sadly, his quality as a footballer is awful.  I won't change my opinion that both technically and as an athlete he is found wanting.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 21, 2022, 10:12:21 AM
I think I am beginning to understand what motivated SB to try and get Jakes red card rescinded.

Whatever your own personal take on Jake, the team have missed his leadership, combativeness, commitment, effort and his willingness to run himself into the ground for the cause.

I'm not implying he is the future, he's not, but he is the present and the best midfielder we have and I never thought I would say this but, I for one, can't wait to have him back in the team

You don't always appreciate and value something until its not there

COTB!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 21, 2022, 01:38:02 PM
Come on Jake lad, come back strong. Weem winnin um round, yowl be player of the season yet ma mon.  ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 21, 2022, 02:58:03 PM
Christ, a couple of games out of the side and people suddenly have extremely clouded memories. Just shows how horrific our squad is now...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on February 21, 2022, 03:03:10 PM
Christ, a couple of games out of the side and people suddenly have extremely clouded memories. Just shows how horrific our squad is now...

That's fans for you.

We should be badgering his agent to get him a move in the summer. I don't want him at this club any longer than necessary. Another footballing loser!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on February 21, 2022, 03:07:36 PM
Christ, a couple of games out of the side and people suddenly have extremely clouded memories. Just shows how horrific our squad is now...
No clouded memories from me,  just recognition that he has more "bottle" than the rest of them put together.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: phbaggies on February 21, 2022, 03:19:50 PM
No clouded memories from me,  just recognition that he has more "bottle" than the rest of them put together.
He is very much part of the question/ problem, not the answer/ solution!!


Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on February 21, 2022, 03:30:50 PM
No clouded memories from me,  just recognition that he has more "bottle" than the rest of them put together.

Just a shame he lacks any footballing ability in the slightest.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on February 21, 2022, 03:42:49 PM
I get why he's highly thought of - for a really great attitude, nothing else.

We have some right wimps down the Albion.

I remember Peace and Ashworth's due diligence when signing a player.  Character was an essential quality.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bosh on February 21, 2022, 04:00:07 PM
As a central midfielder, I don't think he can do that role.

Back 4, stick him in as a blocker in front of them. He can read a game but hasn't got the necessary legs too far up the field. Break up play, simple passes and don't wander from your area of play.

That would be, to me, the future for him in the team as it looks like he will definitely be picked and we need a leader as we lacked that on Saturday on a big way.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on February 21, 2022, 04:32:39 PM
If anyone can name any midfielder from Saturdays midfield that deserves a place over Jake, on that performance on Saturday, then I'd be interested to read the list of names.

As I wrote earlier, he is not the future, he is the present.

And no, not a clouded memory, but a reality of our current situation of a very poor squad.

The sooner people come to terms with that situation, as we haven't got a Yacob or a Mulumbu waiting in the wings, we have Reach, Mowatt and Molumby and of those named, I know who I would sooner have.

But we all see things through a different prism.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BigFrank20 on February 21, 2022, 04:51:53 PM
As a central midfielder, I don't think he can do that role.

Back 4, stick him in as a blocker in front of them. He can read a game but hasn't got the necessary legs too far up the field. Break up play, simple passes and don't wander from your area of play.

That would be, to me, the future for him in the team as it looks like he will definitely be picked and we need a leader as we lacked that on Saturday on a big way.
Didn't we used to have a player who did that admirably well? Step forward one Claudio Yacob who used to be well supported by Youssouf Mulumbu, them were the days
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Blowee on February 21, 2022, 05:02:34 PM
Currently we don’t have a player who can play JL’s role in the club so I guess he has to play. Added to that we are and will be paying him a crazy amount of money to do a job - £2.4 million pounds last season apparently. Unfortunately, someone at the club has seen fit to give him a contract for at least another season. Whilst this is not Jake’s fault and I don’t blame him in the slightest for accepting the deal (who wouldn’t?). Again, we clearly had no confidence that we could find anyone better who would be willing to play for us for just over £2 million pounds a year!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on February 21, 2022, 05:32:14 PM
Didn't we used to have a player who did that admirably well? Step forward one Claudio Yacob who used to be well supported by Youssouf Mulumbu, them were the days
CY could play that role but without red cards, from memory he used to get early yellows and you'd think that he would be walking, but somehow kept just the right side of the law (in most cases) whereas .............
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on February 21, 2022, 05:36:24 PM
Yacob, now he was a proper DCM. Him and Mulumbu were a fantastic pair. Great chemistry.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on February 21, 2022, 06:04:36 PM
Currently we don’t have a player who can play JL’s role in the club so I guess he has to play. Added to that we are and will be paying him a crazy amount of money to do a job - £2.4 million pounds last season apparently. Unfortunately, someone at the club has seen fit to give him a contract for at least another season. Whilst this is not Jake’s fault and I don’t blame him in the slightest for accepting the deal (who wouldn’t?). Again, we clearly had no confidence that we could find anyone better who would be willing to play for us for just over £2 million pounds a year!

What role is that, getting red cards? His legs have gone. Hence we are getting more frequent desperate lunges. He moves around the pitch like he needs a mobility scooter and offers very little on the ball. The last time we looked decent in central midfield it was TGH alongside Mowatt at Coventry. That would be my selection. Molumby is as poor as Livermore but at least he is young enough to still be able to run around.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on February 21, 2022, 06:27:27 PM
That Coventry game has a lot to answer for.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on February 21, 2022, 07:05:43 PM
That Coventry game has a lot to answer for.

The last time we scored a goal in the first half of a match.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 01, 2022, 09:18:00 AM
The first name on the team sheet for Saturdays visit to Hull City has to be Jake Livermore, no question
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on March 01, 2022, 09:20:35 AM
The first name on the team sheet for Saturdays visit to Hull City has to be Jake Livermore, no question

Cue......... forum meltdown  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 01, 2022, 09:22:26 AM
The first name on the team sheet for Saturdays visit to Hull City has to be Jake Livermore, no question

It has to be.

Purely on the basis that he drives something from the others.  Coaches them around the pitch.

This current bunch are devoid of talking. Devoid of Ideas.

Our midfield is bad with Livermore - it is even worse without him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on March 01, 2022, 09:36:05 AM
Cue......... forum meltdown  ;D .


Not really. Whilst I don't want him here next season we're that bad at the moment he has to play. At least he will compete and not hide.

We have to start by becoming hard to beat and you do that by becoming organised and competing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on March 01, 2022, 09:45:11 AM

Not really. Whilst I don't want him here next season we're that bad at the moment he has to play. At least he will compete and not hide.

We have to start by becoming hard to beat and you do that by becoming organised and competing.


I know.

Wouldn't bet on it preventing a forum meltdown though  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on March 01, 2022, 09:58:44 AM
If anyone really thinks Jake is the answer at the moment then I despair . Unfortunately Bruce probably thinks he is .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on March 01, 2022, 10:03:14 AM
If anyone really thinks Jake is the answer at the moment then I despair . Unfortunately Bruce probably thinks he is .
He isn’t the answer we want or need but he is better than any of those that have played while he’s been suspended. He is as well a way better captain on the pitch than any of those on the pitch in his absence
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on March 01, 2022, 10:35:55 AM
As a central midfielder, I don't think he can do that role.

Back 4, stick him in as a blocker in front of them. He can read a game but hasn't got the necessary legs too far up the field. Break up play, simple passes and don't wander from your area of play.

That would be, to me, the future for him in the team as it looks like he will definitely be picked and we need a leader as we lacked that on Saturday on a big way.

That’s how we use him until we get better. TGH and Molumby ahead of him. Reach and Mowatt don’t deserve to start.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 03, 2022, 11:23:52 AM
Captain Fantastico will be back on Saturday, at least one player will be giving 100%.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on March 03, 2022, 11:37:55 AM
If anyone really thinks Jake is the answer at the moment then I despair . Unfortunately Bruce probably thinks he is .

The midfield has looked even worse without Livermore in it. Moving forward we definitely need better and younger.

Using Livermore as a defensive shield is the best place for him in our present situation.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 03, 2022, 12:23:24 PM
The midfield has looked even worse without Livermore in it. Moving forward we definitely need better and younger.

Using Livermore as a defensive shield is the best place for him in our present situation.

Your right Hull and as I've said previously, he isn't the future he is the here and now. Can't wait to have him back in after seeing the last four debacles
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on March 03, 2022, 12:41:14 PM
Of course he has to play, and will play. As others have said, and its a sad indictment, he at least cares and will drive others on. Boy do they need it!!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on March 03, 2022, 12:57:23 PM
Play Livermore instead of Castro and TGH, absolutely no way.

I would however grant Livermore an opportunity over Reach and Mowatt but not Molumby.

I don't know what on earth has happened to Reach and Mowatt.  Reach hasn't had one good game.  Mowatt, I don't know whether it's mental or injury effects or both?

The Mowatt we saw at the start of the season is infinitely better than Livermore.  Molumby will continue to edge Livermore on the grounds of mobility and that nagging doubt that he could have 10% improvement in him as he is only 22.

We cannot under any circumstances offer Livermore game time for.next season IMO.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 05, 2022, 05:46:32 PM
Well played Skip ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 05, 2022, 05:59:58 PM
He was excellent today - our midfield was instantly better with him in it.  He does the industrious side of the game far better than the others.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on March 05, 2022, 06:04:21 PM
 never been a fan but glad he played well today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ex coseley kid on March 05, 2022, 06:05:19 PM
He was excellent today - our midfield was instantly better with him in it.  He does the industrious side of the game far better than the others.

Wish I'd been brave enough to watch today. Hopefully his time in clink has given him lots of food for thought, I really hope he keeps this up.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KnaveofAlbion on March 05, 2022, 06:06:05 PM
never been a fan but glad he played well today.

He has, over the years, put in twenty plus very good games. He's more than capable.

That's what sort of makes his average week in, week out half assed displays all the more annoying.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on March 05, 2022, 06:35:31 PM
Jake was my man of the match today, narrowly ahead of TGH.

As well as shielding the back three, he was prompting, encouraging and supporting players round him. We looked a more solid and cohesive unit with him in the midfield

I had a football coach a good few years ago know who had played for Nottingham Forest and he always use to drill into us, “the player without the ball is just as, if not more important as the player with the ball” and I though Jake epitomised that mantra today.

Jake isn’t the future, but he is the present, the here and the now
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Sted1990 on March 05, 2022, 07:35:00 PM
Played very well today, credit to him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on March 05, 2022, 10:42:23 PM
Credit to the lad did his bit today but oh if he could pass, couple of occasions in second half where misplaced ball by Jake broke down our attack in promising positions.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBaggieMan on March 05, 2022, 11:46:28 PM
Reasonable Geoffrey, reasonable.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on March 12, 2022, 08:34:53 AM
Terrific attitude, work rate and application.

However, looks out of his depth against better Championship teams.

We need better next season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on March 12, 2022, 09:13:41 AM
Terrific attitude, work rate and application.

However, looks out of his depth against better Championship teams.

We need better next season.

The whole midfield looks out of it's depth against better championship sides though, not just Livermore.

We definitely need better for next season. From the current crop of midfielders the only 1 I'd start on a regular basis next season is TGH, although it looks like we have to buy Molumby. I'm not sure we'll have the money for better or the nous to get better for little money. From the little I've seen of the U23's non of them look ready to be starters in a side going for promotion.


Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on March 12, 2022, 09:17:23 AM
Thought he had a good game personally. People just expect him to create but that isn't his game and never will be, rather like Molumby.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on March 12, 2022, 11:00:14 AM
Thought he had a good game personally. People just expect him to create but that isn't his game and never will be, rather like Molumby.
All these non-creative midfielders is part of our problem. Its all right saying, its not his job, and its not part of his job, but it then means we are totally reliant on someone like Mowatt. You will find that the better teams have several creative players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on March 12, 2022, 11:12:35 AM
All these non-creative midfielders is part of our problem. Its all right saying, its not his job, and its not part of his job, but it then means we are totally reliant on someone like Mowatt. You will find that the better teams have several creative players.

That's not Livermore's fault though the blame for that lies at the feet of those who have assembled such an unbalanced squad.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 12, 2022, 12:09:52 PM
Watching him trying to pass a ball is honestly excrutiating.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wodenson46 on March 12, 2022, 01:05:17 PM
Thought he had a decent game. Did what he does, misplaced a couple of what might have been good forward passes, but a least he saw them and tried to make them. Helped cover for Bartley when he got lost, or Clarke when he went forward to try to support Townsend. Such a pity he couldn't cover for the disaster in goal as well though. That is beyond redemption. Loss of points last night had nothing to do with Livermores performance.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on March 12, 2022, 01:06:51 PM
That's not Livermore's fault though the blame for that lies at the feet of those who have assembled such an unbalanced squad.
Maybe not Livermore's fault, but aren't we interested in what would make the team more effective? We have an extreme shortage of creativity in midfield, and in my view we need at least one more creative midfielder, maybe 2. Which would make Livermore one of the first candidates for the chop.   
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on March 12, 2022, 01:30:51 PM
That's 4 points from 2 games with him back in the side.

I'm sure others would point out if we'd gone winning games to losing when he starts.  I remember one game him getting the blame because he was on for the last 10 mins and we conceded despite having absolutely nothing to do with the goal.  It was "he's on the pitch so he must be at fault somehow"

He's not amazing but he's the best defensive midfielder we've got by a long way.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on March 12, 2022, 01:48:10 PM
Maybe not Livermore's fault, but aren't we interested in what would make the team more effective?

Absolutely yes. But without a transfer window we're stuck with what we've got I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on March 12, 2022, 03:05:39 PM

He's not amazing but he's the best defensive midfielder we've got by a long way.

I don't think he's better than Molumby by a long way.  Molumby should improve as he gets experience.  Livermore is only going to get even less mobile than he is already. 

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on March 12, 2022, 03:32:49 PM
I don't think he's better than Molumby by a long way.  Molumby should improve as he gets experience.  Livermore is only going to get even less mobile than he is already.

Definitely better than Molumby at present but, given their respective ages, only one of them has the possibility to improve.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BigFrank20 on March 16, 2022, 06:13:28 AM
I thought he had one of his better games last night and showed leadership when required (some strange refereeing decision that needed pointing out to him and calming others who were getting irate about it)
The presence of TGH, mostly in front of the midfield, means he's not chasing every ball in every direction and having to do desperate lunges when he tires   
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on March 16, 2022, 08:26:13 AM
The presence of TGH, mostly in front of the midfield, means he's not chasing every ball in every direction and having to do desperate lunges when he tires   

Definitely agree with this point. Having TGH really does compensate for the lack of mobility in Mowatt and Livermore. A point made by many on this forum this season under Val’s tenure that both our midfield two were often outnumbered.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Groovephil on March 16, 2022, 08:38:49 AM
Definitely agree with this point. Having TGH really does compensate for the lack of mobility in Mowatt and Livermore. A point made by many on this forum this season under Val’s tenure that both our midfield two were often outnumbered.

This is why Bruce deserves next year, he’s adapting, something Val just wouldn’t do.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on March 17, 2022, 11:55:40 AM
Played well. Lovely through ball for Callum Robinson too who perhaps could have done better with his shot on goal following Tosin Adarabambi's slip and fall.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on March 17, 2022, 12:14:08 PM
With one exception (Cov away) we have been much better with him in the team than without. I thought Tuesday he was better than he has been for a while . I suspect he more than most was least suited to VIs high tempo , power running ideal and it could well be he has come back much better physically from his latest suspension.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on March 19, 2022, 05:41:22 PM
What's the point anymore?  At 32 yrs of age and failing legs why are we continually selecting him to start every match?  Yes Mowatt is mediocre, but has the advantage of being 5 years younger.

We need better and need better in the next 4 months ready for next season in the Championship.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Blowee on March 19, 2022, 05:43:24 PM
What's the point anymore?  At 32 yrs of age and failing legs why are we continually selecting him to start every match?  Yes Mowatt is mediocre, but has the advantage of being 5 years younger.

We need better and need better in the next 4 months ready for next season in the Championship.
I’m no big fan of Livermore but with younger players around him with ability I do think he adds something. His talking and organisation of players can be useful. He just doesn’t have the legs which is why he gets so many cards.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 03, 2022, 06:42:16 PM
What's the point of playing Livermore?  He's too old and too slow.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on April 03, 2022, 06:43:38 PM
I’m surprised you didn’t resurrect this thread sooner..
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 03, 2022, 06:45:19 PM
Give him another 5 year contract.  I'm quicker than him now and I'm 46.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on April 03, 2022, 06:46:26 PM
What's the point of playing Livermore?  He's too old and too slow.

He was actually the least bad out of the 3 today and shown a lot more desire than pretty much the entire team. But hey ho it’s all Livermore’s fault again.

I agree completely that he’s not good but TGH, young and fast (er) was far worse today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on April 03, 2022, 06:47:48 PM
Not a fan but was the pick of the 3 today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Gilsey 56 on April 03, 2022, 06:53:59 PM
He his what he his, not the worst player in the middle but that wouldn't be hard. The four players in front of him were anonymous today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 03, 2022, 07:46:43 PM
Not saying a great deal...............but our best player today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on April 03, 2022, 07:48:44 PM
One of few who plays with heart but doesn't have the legs anymore especially during a three game week .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 03, 2022, 07:49:05 PM
I don't care best out of a bad bunch, we are going nowhere with the likes of Livermore.  As I said what is the point? Barely good enough for the Championship.

We need young players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on April 03, 2022, 08:43:07 PM
I don't care best out of a bad bunch, we are going nowhere with the likes of Livermore.  As I said what is the point? Barely good enough for the Championship.

We need young players.

It’s not necessarily ‘younger’ players we need, we just need better players, ultimately.

The Wolves have Moutinho in their midfield at 35, utter class act. Age isn’t the decisive factor
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on April 03, 2022, 08:44:52 PM
I don't care best out of a bad bunch, we are going nowhere with the likes of Livermore.  As I said what is the point? Barely good enough for the Championship.

We need young players.

Well what would you have done today?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on April 03, 2022, 08:52:55 PM
Pains me to say it, but he was probably the best player on the pitch today despite being "average" at most.

Tells you all you need to know about this gutless team
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on April 03, 2022, 11:27:52 PM
Bloke shouldn’t be at club anymore it’s as simple as that, and that’s part of the problem too many player’s have out lasted their stay and some we have signed recently are just not good enough.How we are able to freshen up first team next season is beyond me with so much deadwood being paid over the odds for what they bring to table.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boingboing1989 on April 03, 2022, 11:48:28 PM
When Jake was out of the team you saw why he walks back in week in week out.

Is he good enough? No, but if we had a few more who put in the effort as he does we wouldn't be half as bad as we are.



Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on April 03, 2022, 11:51:59 PM
Not good enough along with virtually every other player in the squad .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Mellor on April 04, 2022, 10:34:42 AM
Well done. You did not quite as bad as the others around him.

This guy is the face of failure at the club. Should have been moved on years ago. Offers nothing, very little technical skill, very little pace and general quality, but it’s alright because he works hard ay and ‘loves the club’. We can’t keep sentimental value going when the club is in major danger of being cut adrift for a long time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on April 05, 2022, 12:41:56 AM
Livermore is awful technically old and slow and a accident waiting to happen but TGH aside hes the best cm on books.

I said about 4 maybe 5 years ago we failed to improve on brunt morrison mulumbu olsson etc we got worse. Now we are failing to improve on Livermore bartley Phillips (not in same league as the first lot sadly) and we will drop down to the next level of quality.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on April 05, 2022, 09:23:04 AM
Livermore is awful technically old and slow and a accident waiting to happen but TGH aside hes the best cm on books.

I said about 4 maybe 5 years ago we failed to improve on brunt morrison mulumbu olsson etc we got worse. Now we are failing to improve on Livermore bartley Phillips (not in same league as the first lot sadly) and we will drop down to the next level of quality.

On current form there's an argument to suggest we've already dropped to the next level of quality in Mowatt, Reach and Robinson. Form is temporary, class is permanent.

None of Mowatt, Reach or Robinson would have started in RDM's promotion side on a regular basis. I doubt any of them would have started at all ahead of Molumbu, Morrison, Dorrans, Brunt or Jerome Thomas. And there's no way on earth that Bartley would have started ahead of Big Jonas.

Jake has heart but he's never been someone to build a midfield around, and Phillips barely caused a ripple in the hydropool this season never mind the Championship. You're right, we've been going downhill for years and in truth we held onto Brunt and Morrison too long as well.

Worrying times.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on April 05, 2022, 10:11:25 AM
Might as well have stuck a wheelie bin out there on Sunday
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 05, 2022, 12:14:18 PM
Might as well have stuck a wheelie bin out there on Sunday

Yet many others thought he was the best player on the pitch (for us) on Sunday. All about opinions, what did he do exactly that was so bad?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tylerm on April 05, 2022, 12:47:55 PM
Yet many others thought he was the best player on the pitch (for us) on Sunday. All about opinions, what did he do exactly that was so bad?

I’m sorry but being better than the others is hardly an accolade with this bunch of spineless individuals. I’ve not disliked a team this much in years
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 06, 2022, 09:24:25 AM
I’m sorry but being better than the others is hardly an accolade with this bunch of spineless individuals. I’ve not disliked a team this much in years

I was asking another poster to say why a wheelie bin would have been as effective and what exactly was wrong with Livermore's performance on Sunday. Didn't get a reply.

It's hardly Livermore's fault that those around him performed worse than him though. If we can't say he was better than others then equally we can't criticise him surely?


Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on April 06, 2022, 12:54:17 PM
I was asking another poster to say why a wheelie bin would have been as effective and what exactly was wrong with Livermore's performance on Sunday. Didn't get a reply.

It's hardly Livermore's fault that those around him performed worse than him though. If we can't say he was better than others then equally we can't criticise him surely?

He was our best player. We were awful yes, but he played as though he cared. I dont understand the wheelie bin comment myself.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on April 06, 2022, 01:11:41 PM
I was asking another poster to say why a wheelie bin would have been as effective and what exactly was wrong with Livermore's performance on Sunday. Didn't get a reply.

It's hardly Livermore's fault that those around him performed worse than him though. If we can't say he was better than others then equally we can't criticise him surely?

And he's not in this side to provide goals and assists.  He's in this side to provide protection to the back three.

The fact our forward thinking players are not good enough is a reflection on them as individuals and our appalling recruitment.

The fact we didn't replace our creative midfielder and expected Livermore to suddenly do it in a midfield two, is not any fault of his either.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 06, 2022, 03:25:13 PM
And he's not in this side to provide goals and assists.  He's in this side to provide protection to the back three.

The fact our forward thinking players are not good enough is a reflection on them as individuals and our appalling recruitment.

The fact we didn't replace our creative midfielder and expected Livermore to suddenly do it in a midfield two, is not any fault of his either.

I'm sorry but this is madness.

It's like saying your centre backs don't need to score because they are defenders.  So every time we get a corner our central defenders should not try and score with a header.

Everyone needs to be capable of scoring.

There is no justification for keeping Livermore beyond the Summer.  He is not alone.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on April 06, 2022, 03:49:07 PM
I'm sorry but this is madness.

It's like saying your centre backs don't need to score because they are defenders.  So every time we get a corner our central defenders should not try and score with a header.

Everyone needs to be capable of scoring.

There is no justification for keeping Livermore beyond the Summer.  He is not alone.

Your head's going to go pop when Jake wins the .com player of the season award.... :P  :P  :P .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 06, 2022, 04:41:48 PM
I like your humour Dan. :P

However, if Livermore gets POTY it's embarrassing from the fans perspective.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on April 06, 2022, 08:54:27 PM
I like your humour Dan. :P

However, if Livermore gets POTY it's embarrassing from the fans perspective.

He could win POTS as well
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on April 06, 2022, 10:07:04 PM
He could win POTS as well
He is one vowel away from the most powerful job on the planet….he’s done well.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on April 06, 2022, 11:12:18 PM
Played well again tonight, that’s for sure.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on April 06, 2022, 11:24:50 PM
MOM for me tonight
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on April 07, 2022, 10:18:39 AM
MOM for me tonight

Really?

Carroll or Clarke were light years ahead of him in their performances.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: phbaggies on April 07, 2022, 10:58:24 AM
Really?

Carroll or Clarke were light years ahead of him in their performances.
Livermore was everywhere second half, mopping up well at the back and keeping it simple in midfield, played well. All about opinion nut I thought Clarke was quiet tonight compared to recent weeks, thought Ajayi was the pick of the CH's for me. Carroll easily MOTM though
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 09, 2022, 03:28:00 PM
Livermore has scored this season, unfortunately in the wrong net.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on April 09, 2022, 04:00:48 PM
I wish he would learn to pass along the ground. So many times he just sticks a boot out and the ball flies anywhere.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 09, 2022, 05:06:49 PM
Just leave, you have overstayed your welcome.

Playing the majority of games in a 46 game programme at this level is too much for you.

We are constantly overrun in midfield.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on April 09, 2022, 05:38:44 PM
Livermore has scored this season, unfortunately in the wrong net.
was wondering if that was his first goal, doesn’t look great when only goal scored by a midfielder all season is into his own net. Probably sums up his time at Albion own goal!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on April 09, 2022, 05:55:38 PM
I had to laugh when he was being praised since his return from suspension. His first goal of the season shows a return to his regular contributions to a defeat !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on April 09, 2022, 07:51:22 PM
I had to laugh when he was being praised since his return from suspension. His first goal of the season shows a return to his regular contributions to a defeat !

2021/22 Captain special:
-32 appearances
-1 own goal
-0 goals
-2 assists
-30 shots (6 on target, just 20%)
-72% pass completion (despite going sideways and backwards with easy balls to the defenders constantly)
-75% tackle success
-8 yellow cards
-3 red cards [amended, well pointed out Dexy]

Absolute embarrassment.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on April 09, 2022, 08:12:13 PM
Is it 3 red cards , I've lost count with him. :o ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 11, 2022, 09:39:38 AM
Is it 3 red cards , I've lost count with him. :o ;D

no it's only 2 against Huddersfield and Sheff Utd.

I had to laugh when he was being praised since his return from suspension. His first goal of the season shows a return to his regular contributions to a defeat !

He has played well since his return from suspension. The own goal on Saturday was a calamity though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 11, 2022, 09:43:57 AM
no it's only 2 against Huddersfield and Sheff Utd.

He has played well since his return from suspension. The own goal on Saturday was a calamity though.


Played well, we have some low standards here.  He is not alone though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggiejohn on April 11, 2022, 11:12:55 AM
no it's only 2 against Huddersfield and Sheff Utd.

He has played well since his return from suspension. The own goal on Saturday was a calamity though.

To be fair, he was the only WBA player to react, on the highlights it shows the  ball got under his feet. If he hadn't attempted to intercept the cross, there were at least two Stoke players waiting for the tap-in, the outcome would have been the same.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on April 11, 2022, 01:42:52 PM
For all his faults and the heaps of criticism I've had for him over the years (some of which has been deemed "not appropriate" and/or removed this season) he has looked like a completely different player since returning from his suspension.

The own goal at the weekend was a black mark on his record for sure, but freak goals like that do happen to defensive players in the chaos at times in the box, I can't even be fully mad at him for it (Johnstone didn't exactly cover himself in glory either)

Yes, he's still limited and I still believe he still should be moved on in the summer and yes, some of this is down to Bruce simplifying his role somewhat as the sitting midfielder. But even I can have no complaints about the bloke's effort on the pitch at the moment. Particularly in comparison to some of the others who look like they'd rather be anywhere else right now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OhBilics on April 11, 2022, 02:26:36 PM
But even I can have no complaints about the bloke's effort on the pitch at the moment. Particularly in comparison to some of the others who look like they'd rather be anywhere else right now.
I don't think anyone has complained about his effort, it's more about... everything else. He's slow, and doesn't seem able to pass the ball. Compare him with Yokuslu from last season.

By the way, does anyone know why we didn't bring Diagne back? He seems to be without a club.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on April 11, 2022, 07:35:23 PM
For all his faults and the heaps of criticism I've had for him over the years (some of which has been deemed "not appropriate" and/or removed this season) he has looked like a completely different player since returning from his suspension.

The own goal at the weekend was a black mark on his record for sure, but freak goals like that do happen to defensive players in the chaos at times in the box, I can't even be fully mad at him for it (Johnstone didn't exactly cover himself in glory either)

Yes, he's still limited and I still believe he still should be moved on in the summer and yes, some of this is down to Bruce simplifying his role somewhat as the sitting midfielder. But even I can have no complaints about the bloke's effort on the pitch at the moment. Particularly in comparison to some of the others who look like they'd rather be anywhere else right now.

It was Livermore that was caught out ball watching whilst his man ran off him into the channel to receive their clever free kick. He then lumbered into the box and because he has fleet made out of concrete was unable to react to clear the ball, instead kicking it into his own net. Then he did his usual trick of looking at all his team mates trying to pick someone to blame but he couldn't so just went a bit red and lumbered his over the hill body back up the pitch.

Bit sickening that we have to have him on the books stinking our wage bill and squad out for another 12 months before he retires two years too late.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 12, 2022, 10:48:32 AM
It was Livermore that was caught out ball watching whilst his man ran off him into the channel to receive their clever free kick. He then lumbered into the box and because he has fleet made out of concrete was unable to react to clear the ball, instead kicking it into his own net. Then he did his usual trick of looking at all his team mates trying to pick someone to blame but he couldn't so just went a bit red and lumbered his over the hill body back up the pitch.

Bit sickening that we have to have him on the books stinking our wage bill and squad out for another 12 months before he retires two years too late.

if you watch the goal again it's actually Molumby's player that runs past him, Livermore was one of the first to react to the free kick.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on April 12, 2022, 12:48:37 PM
if you watch the goal again it's actually Molumby's player that runs past him, Livermore was one of the first to react to the free kick.

It was definitely Molumby who did not pick up the player in question. was just strolling back when it happened.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on April 12, 2022, 03:54:35 PM
I don't think anyone has complained about his effort, it's more about... everything else. He's slow, and doesn't seem able to pass the ball. Compare him with Yokuslu from last season.

By the way, does anyone know why we didn't bring Diagne back? He seems to be without a club.

Definitely injured and probably too expensive.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on April 12, 2022, 07:09:37 PM
Our midfield has been urine poor this season with correct me if I’m wrong only Mowatt scoring from a duo with Val and a trio with Bruce. This is one of our problem area’s and Jake isn’t one of the solutions, should be thanked for his imo longer than required stay and moved on in Summer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 18, 2022, 09:18:05 PM
League 2 standard if he's lucky.

He wouldn't get near Peterborough's team.

A trier though so he's liked.  I'd be a trier if on his wages.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on April 18, 2022, 09:19:30 PM
Too old now. 2 years past it.

Nothing he can do about aging but definitely something the club can do about giving blokes in their late 20's 4+1 deals. Not Jakes fault, i'd sign it in a flash too.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on April 18, 2022, 09:22:19 PM
He's the best we have in midfield , that says it all about our recruitment .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 18, 2022, 09:23:31 PM
He's the best we have in midfield , that says it all about our recruitment .

The best!  He is the worst.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on April 18, 2022, 09:23:50 PM
He's the best we have in midfield , that says it all about our recruitment .

TGH is the best CM we have for me. By far.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on April 18, 2022, 09:25:33 PM
The best!  He is the worst.
He's finished , the brain is still there but physically he's gone .Whose better ? ....the rest are rubbish .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on April 18, 2022, 09:26:28 PM
TGH is the best CM we have for me. By far.
Still new to it mate , he will be in time no doubt .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on April 18, 2022, 09:27:37 PM
Still new to it mate , he will be in time no doubt .

I think he will get better if allowed to play there regularly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 18, 2022, 09:28:05 PM
The best!  He is the worst.

He is better than Mowatt by a mile....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on April 18, 2022, 09:29:12 PM
I think he will get better if allowed to play there regularly.
Got a lot to learn but agreed , my point is Livermore is still our best CM which is shocking because he should have been moved on 2 years ago .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on April 18, 2022, 09:30:05 PM
Got a lot to learn but agreed , my point is Livermore is still our best CM which is shocking because he should have been moved on 2 years ago .


I'd still have TGH ahead of Livermore but JL is somehow our 2nd best CM which as you say is literally insane.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 18, 2022, 09:50:10 PM
He is better than Mowatt by a mile....

Yeah right.  At least Mowatt has contributed 4 goals.  Liver. Ore has contributed 2 sending offs.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 18, 2022, 11:18:51 PM
Livermore is hopeless, my heart sinks everytime I see him pull on the WBA jersey.

Ismael triggering his extension was the single biggest mistake.

I wonder if Livermore's new 1 year contract has a wages flex down built in the event of relegation to league 1?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: graka on April 19, 2022, 09:53:12 AM
Livermore has been sub standard for 3 years and the balance of our engine room also for the same.
The only manager who recognised this was fat Sam.
Any manager who plays a mix of Livermore/sawyers/mowatt/reach should be consigned to the dinosaur museum
I actually felt Livermore did ok after furlongs dismissal last night but going forward he should be a bench warmer at best next season if we can't get rid.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: bosh on April 19, 2022, 10:06:28 AM
Everyone keeps on saying bench warmer - yet always appears first on the teamsheet. We must have another candidate for captain.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on April 19, 2022, 12:20:51 PM
Livermore is hopeless, my heart sinks everytime I see him pull on the WBA jersey.........

You must be feeling quite down by now, 'they' say chilled acoustic music and mindfulness can be of comfort.......... give them a go on our next match day when Jake gets the nod again ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 19, 2022, 12:24:17 PM
Everyone keeps on saying bench warmer - yet always appears first on the teamsheet. We must have another candidate for captain.

Who though? The fact he managed to keep his head last night and avoided a booking whilst putting his point across to the ref shows he has the qualities needed as a captain.

He should be a sub next season along with others like Mowatt & Reach  but I've no problem with him being captain.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Groovephil on April 19, 2022, 12:24:45 PM
He was the best midfielder last night. That is the problem.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on April 19, 2022, 12:33:51 PM
Who though? The fact he managed to keep his head last night and avoided a booking whilst putting his point across to the ref shows he has the qualities needed as a captain.

He should be a sub next season along with others like Mowatt & Reach  but I've no problem with him being captain.

Is this satire? The ref could have sent him off for dissent and took pity on him. Bruce was screaming at him to calm down. His job is to play football, not to engage in running commentary with officials.

This season he has managed no goals, two assists, two red cards and an own goal. Failure.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 19, 2022, 12:36:57 PM
Everyone keeps on saying bench warmer - yet always appears first on the teamsheet. We must have another candidate for captain.
O Shea if he Is to be a future captain
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 19, 2022, 12:37:16 PM
Is this satire? The ref could have sent him off for dissent and took pity on him. Bruce was screaming at him to calm down. His job is to play football, not to engage in running commentary with officials.

This season he has managed no goals, two assists, two red cards and an own goal. Failure.

Cut the sarcasm out.
 You say the ref could have sent him off, yet didn't even book him surely if he "took pity on him" he would have booked him if he wanted to save him from a red card?

 His job is to play football but also to engage with officials, that's what the captain does.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on April 19, 2022, 12:42:58 PM
Is this satire? The ref could have sent him off for dissent and took pity on him. Bruce was screaming at him to calm down. His job is to play football, not to engage in running commentary with officials.

This season he has managed no goals, two assists, two red cards and an own goal. Failure.

Great foot to foot dexterity though. Would have taken hours for a clogger to attain that level of technique, credit......where......it's.....due ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on April 19, 2022, 12:46:51 PM
Jake is not great, he is far from it. However, I still think it sad that, among the worst squad of players seen at the club for 20 years, he gets more flack than any other player. It is just not justified in my view.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 19, 2022, 07:54:15 PM
League 2 standard if he's lucky.

He wouldn't get near Peterborough's team.

A trier though so he's liked.  I'd be a trier if on his wages.
But for your constant whining about Livermore, you would'nt be liked  ;)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 19, 2022, 08:20:49 PM
But for your constant whining about Livermore, you would'nt be liked  ;)

Mate, I can use tact and diplomacy at the right time, believe me.  However, this is an open forum where everyone bleeds blue and white.  I call it as I see it.

I am not totally against older players if they add value.  I just don't see anywhere enough from Livermore to make me stand up and say this guy is worth keeping.

You must remember that the playing of any old player (even Cristiano Ronaldo) means that he is blocking the path of developing young talent.  That's it in a nutshell.  And yes I'm sure Livermore is a good bloke off the pitch.  :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on April 19, 2022, 10:50:42 PM
Cut the sarcasm out.
 You say the ref could have sent him off, yet didn't even book him surely if he "took pity on him" he would have booked him if he wanted to save him from a red card?

 His job is to play football but also to engage with officials, that's what the captain does.

His behaviour in the first half last night was hysterical, the ref took pity on him as he'd already just sent off Furlong, but he deserved at least a yellow for dissent, he was screaming in the refs face for quite a while, he'd completely lost it. The ref, realised he'd made a mess of overruling their throw-in which led to the corner and their goal so was carrying a guilt trip; hence he was a lot more lenient than he needed to be.

The only thing Livermore is any good for at this point is the pre-match coin toss. The only positive thing I can say about him is that I'd still pick him ahead of Molumby who is league one standard.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on April 19, 2022, 10:59:46 PM
Why do people keep saying he could have got sent off for dissent.  At most it's a yellow card and he didn't even get that.  We want players to show some passion sometimes, you can bet if he'd just stood by and shrugged we'd be saying he needed to show some fire. 

He also deserved credit for smoothing things out for TGH.  He took him over to apologise to the ballboy and fans, while the ref waited and then spoke calmly to the ref.  Was key in TGH not getting a red.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boingboing1989 on April 19, 2022, 11:44:20 PM
Jake is not great, he is far from it. However, I still think it sad that, among the worst squad of players seen at the club for 20 years, he gets more flack than any other player. It is just not justified in my view.
Agreed, think every man and his dog know he's not good enough and needs moving on but at the minute there's no one else we can pick which is a sad indictment of where we are as a club.

There is many more players worthy of the 'abuse' than Livermore
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 20, 2022, 06:53:44 AM
His behaviour in the first half last night was hysterical, the ref took pity on him as he'd already just sent off Furlong, but he deserved at least a yellow for dissent, he was screaming in the refs face for quite a while, he'd completely lost it. The ref, realised he'd made a mess of overruling their throw-in which led to the corner and their goal so was carrying a guilt trip; hence he was a lot more lenient than he needed to be.

The only thing Livermore is any good for at this point is the pre-match coin toss. The only positive thing I can say about him is that I'd still pick him ahead of Molumby who is league one standard.

Harsh on Molumby, he is only 22 and will get better with a run of games.  Is he really that bad?  It has been a very stop-start season for both him and TGH when we frustrating keep going back to Livermore, Mowatt and Reach even though they've done little all season.  Livermore will get slightly worse from here with every passing season, in line with other 32 year olds, that is normal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on April 20, 2022, 09:07:38 AM
Having been at the game I'm basing this purely on what I've seen on the extended lowlights but I thought Jake did well keeping his teammates away from the ref.

Genuinely think we'd have been down at least one more player if he hadn't intervened as often as he did.

Whether being at least one more player down would have made any tangible difference to our 'performance' is another matter........
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbastrollers on April 20, 2022, 09:16:33 AM
Mate, I can use tact and diplomacy at the right time, believe me.  However, this is an open forum where everyone bleeds blue and white.  I call it as I see it.

I am not totally against older players if they add value.  I just don't see anywhere enough from Livermore to make me stand up and say this guy is worth keeping.

You must remember that the playing of any old player (even Cristiano Ronaldo) means that he is blocking the path of developing young talent.  That's it in a nutshell.  And yes I'm sure Livermore is a good bloke off the pitch. 

  ‘none so blind, as those that cannot see’

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on April 20, 2022, 11:24:01 AM
Our midfield has been horrendous this season and those involved should take a good look at themselves no one comes out smelling like rose’s. Livermore has been past it for a couple of seasons and should have been moved on yet another example of a player been allowed to outstay his welcome. Mowatt I’m only hoping Val will come in for him in summer as he’s produced little of note as for Mulumby how we got suckered into making this move permanent shows we have idiots who run this club.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 24, 2022, 05:57:41 AM
Absolutely woeful again.  Stopping Molumby from playing in the position he'd be most comfortable.

Placing Livermore in front of a back 3 is the biggest hindrance to our offensive play.

Yet none of the Head Coaches can see it. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 24, 2022, 06:06:00 AM
Absolutely woeful again.  Stopping Molumby from playing in the position he'd be most comfortable.

Placing Livermore in front of a back 3 is the biggest hindrance to our offensive play.

Yet none of the Head Coaches can see it.

Big Sam did, just saying......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on April 24, 2022, 08:19:22 AM
Absolutely woeful again.  Stopping Molumby from playing in the position he'd be most comfortable.

Placing Livermore in front of a back 3 is the biggest hindrance to our offensive play.

Yet none of the Head Coaches can see it.

Clearly a vendetta here. Was way better than Molumby yesterday.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jeb-Dog on April 24, 2022, 08:27:25 AM
Clearly a vendetta here. Was way better than Molumby yesterday.

None of our midfield is especially good but thought Molumby was marginally better. At least Molumby can get around the pitch and adds energy.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on April 24, 2022, 08:44:10 AM
None of our midfield is especially good but thought Molumby was marginally better. At least Molumby can get around the pitch and adds energy.

I can agree re the energy. Ours is notably lower than most teams we face at the moment. Right throughout the team.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on April 24, 2022, 09:19:18 AM
Clearly a vendetta here. Was way better than Molumby yesterday.

JL was the pick of the 3 and im no JL fan.  TGH was off it and Moloumby tries but not much else to offer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan on April 24, 2022, 09:38:38 AM
I feel sorry for him somewhat because he does try his best, and by all accounts does seem one of the few good eggs in the squad. But the game has long since passed him by, it spoke volumes that when Allardyce came in he loaned in a new midfield and Livermore wasn't even trusted to come on as a sub. You only need to compare his stats to previous season and he's declined massively in everything - defensive contribution, attacking contribution, possession.

That he's a pick of a bunch of our midfield in any game is really a sorry reflection of our midfield. Being better than Molumby who is a league one level midfielder is neither her nor there.

If any of the current midfielders at the club are starting next season, Bruce clearly has learned nothing from his months here.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: graka on April 24, 2022, 09:39:55 AM
JL was the pick of the 3 and im no JL fan.  GH was off it and Moloumby tries but not much else to offer.
I find myself agreeing with this and that says something about our other midfielders when Livermore who is 3 years past his best is our best midfielder
Molumby was attrocious yesterday and TGH showed he is not good enough to dominate a midfield even though he tries. 
Molumby tries but it shows the complete imbalance and lack of creativity our midfield offers
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: robnewbold on April 24, 2022, 05:41:51 PM
I think he is doing his best, which is Championship mediocrity.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on April 24, 2022, 06:52:36 PM
I was watching him yesterday, and I've come to a conclusion.

Whether you like him or not, think he's a good player or not, he has become the poster boy of our decline. Bought for too much money; on high wages the club could have invested better. He should have been sacked (along with others) when they stole that taxi, but he was allowed to continue with a slap on the wrists. Despite a poor disciplinary record since, he has always been put straight back into the team when available; no matter how reckless or stupid his bookings / reds were, he never faced any real repercussions for that, it was always 'as you were'. He was even made captain, when at any other club that would have been laughable with his record. It was only Allardyce who dropped him, and we markedly improved after he bought in better players; one of whom was a young Arsenal loanee, who according to the press, ended up being the one to call and dressing room meeting and demand more fight from his teammates. That should have been Livermore, as captain.

So he represents all the worst qualities of our decline; wasting money on average players, lack of discipline, on the field stagnation. If we are to move forward as a club, he needs to move on. While he's still here, it's a constant reminder of the advantages we've wasted, and how quickly we've done so.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on April 24, 2022, 07:47:50 PM
Clearly a vendetta here. Was way better than Molumby yesterday.

I thought Molumby was better than Livermore.

Molumby needs to play in the place occupied by Livermore, his development is being stunted.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on April 24, 2022, 10:06:28 PM
Simple, time to go . Along with as many of the current squad as possible.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BaggieBoy04 on April 24, 2022, 10:32:45 PM
I was watching him yesterday, and I've come to a conclusion.

Whether you like him or not, think he's a good player or not, he has become the poster boy of our decline. Bought for too much money; on high wages the club could have invested better. He should have been sacked (along with others) when they stole that taxi, but he was allowed to continue with a slap on the wrists. Despite a poor disciplinary record since, he has always been put straight back into the team when available; no matter how reckless or stupid his bookings / reds were, he never faced any real repercussions for that, it was always 'as you were'. He was even made captain, when at any other club that would have been laughable with his record. It was only Allardyce who dropped him, and we markedly improved after he bought in better players; one of whom was a young Arsenal loanee, who according to the press, ended up being the one to call and dressing room meeting and demand more fight from his teammates. That should have been Livermore, as captain.

So he represents all the worst qualities of our decline; wasting money on average players, lack of discipline, on the field stagnation. If we are to move forward as a club, he needs to move on. While he's still here, it's a constant reminder of the advantages we've wasted, and how quickly we've done so.
Was that loanee Maitland-Niles
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on April 25, 2022, 10:39:06 PM
Was that loanee Maitland-Niles

It was indeed.

https://www.westbromnews.co.uk/2021/05/10/report-ainsley-maitland-niles-held-showdown-talks-with-west-brom-squad-in-april/

Not the best site, but they're just parroting the Athletic.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on April 26, 2022, 02:01:23 AM
Livermore’s continued presence in first team just shows how awful our recruitment has been and with Bruce all but certain to stay can see Jake strolling around pitch with armband on next season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 13, 2022, 01:27:12 PM
Surely this guy has to go this Summer if we acquire the excellent Yokuslu?

What brilliant business it would be to acquire Swift, Wallace and Yokuslu all for free.

It certainly would offset any upfront payment of Livermore's contract for next 12 months, which would be in the region of £1 million?

I think Phillips will now push to re-invent himself as a full back (as with Brunt).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on July 24, 2022, 02:22:50 PM
Didn't feature at all yesterday, and that is without Yokuslu being available. Bartley captain. GREGMT, your dream is finally coming true, Bruce has binned Livermore off. Albeit no sign of any other club being interested in signing him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tylerm on July 24, 2022, 02:46:36 PM
Didn't feature at all yesterday, and that is without Yokuslu being available. Bartley captain. GREGMT, your dream is finally coming true, Bruce has binned Livermore off. Albeit no sign of any other club being interested in signing him.

I read somewhere that he was ill.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on July 24, 2022, 04:37:39 PM
Didn't feature at all yesterday, and that is without Yokuslu being available. Bartley captain. GREGMT, your dream is finally coming true, Bruce has binned Livermore off. Albeit no sign of any other club being interested in signing him.
Worry not, he will be leading the team out at Boro
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Adamstv on July 24, 2022, 08:29:28 PM
Worry not, he will be leading the team out at Boro

It was quoted that he was ill  yesterday hence no involvement
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on July 24, 2022, 10:37:43 PM
It was quoted that he was ill  yesterday hence no involvement

How convenient, he must have same bug that Robinson has got.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on July 24, 2022, 10:40:39 PM
Didn't feature at all yesterday, and that is without Yokuslu being available. Bartley captain. GREGMT, your dream is finally coming true, Bruce has binned Livermore off. Albeit no sign of any other club being interested in signing him.

Not been binned off at all. Wait and see.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on July 25, 2022, 07:51:34 AM
It's a long winter, and he will still be needed to do a job even if he isn't a regular starter.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 25, 2022, 09:06:40 PM
It's a long winter, and he will still be needed to do a job even if he isn't a regular starter.
Is it though, there’s a break because of the World Cup..
And I can’t see the club keeping him just to sell gloves?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 26, 2022, 06:27:39 AM
Is it though, there’s a break because of the World Cup..
And I can’t see the club keeping him just to sell gloves?

Although there have been links to other players I'd be surprised if we managed to offload Jake's wages and got an extra body in prior to the summer window closing.

The World Cup break starts November 12th and ends on December 10th. We then have another break in fixtures between January 1st and January 14th I believe.

Should Jake still be on the books come the closure of the January window we'll still have to play a total of 46 League games over the course of the domestic season.

Okay isn't match fit, Mowatt could suffer a setback, Molumby's inconsistent, we have no idea what Bruce's plans are for TGH and Jake possibly splits his shorts as often as he does opinion. While they don't all cover the same position or play the same role they're all midfield options.

Spoiler alert. This is going to come as bad news for some. In the likely event Jake's still here for the start of the season, and we can't offload him in January, it's more probable than not he still has a part to play. And it won't be for glove sales or to put the cones out.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on July 26, 2022, 08:12:15 AM
Although there have been links to other players I'd be surprised if we managed to offload Jake's wages and got an extra body in prior to the summer window closing.

The World Cup break starts November 12th and ends on December 10th. We then have another break in fixtures between January 1st and January 14th I believe.

Should Jake still be on the books come the closure of the January window we'll still have to play a total of 46 League games over the course of the domestic season.

Okay isn't match fit, Mowatt could suffer a setback, Molumby's inconsistent, we have no idea what Bruce's plans are for TGH and Jake possibly splits his shorts as often as he does opinion. While they don't all cover the same position or play the same role they're all midfield options.

Spoiler alert. This is going to come as bad news for some. In the likely event Jake's still here for the start of the season, and we can't offload him in January, it's more probable than not he still has a part to play. And it won't be for glove sales or to put the cones out.

Completely agree. It also highlights our defensive weaknesses in the middle. Even with the fanfare around Livermore, I'd still be content with him as a sub/starter every now and then due to the length of the season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 26, 2022, 08:15:50 AM
No ones going to take JL off us. Not for the wages we are paying. He's here till the end.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on July 26, 2022, 08:16:58 AM
Although there have been links to other players I'd be surprised if we managed to offload Jake's wages and got an extra body in prior to the summer window closing.

The World Cup break starts November 12th and ends on December 10th. We then have another break in fixtures between January 1st and January 14th I believe.

Should Jake still be on the books come the closure of the January window we'll still have to play a total of 46 League games over the course of the domestic season.

Okay isn't match fit, Mowatt could suffer a setback, Molumby's inconsistent, we have no idea what Bruce's plans are for TGH and Jake possibly splits his shorts as often as he does opinion. While they don't all cover the same position or play the same role they're all midfield options.

Spoiler alert. This is going to come as bad news for some. In the likely event Jake's still here for the start of the season, and we can't offload him in January, it's more probable than not he still has a part to play. And it won't be for glove sales or to put the cones out.

Great post mate
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 26, 2022, 08:52:55 AM
Although there have been links to other players I'd be surprised if we managed to offload Jake's wages and got an extra body in prior to the summer window closing.

The World Cup break starts November 12th and ends on December 10th. We then have another break in fixtures between January 1st and January 14th I believe.

Should Jake still be on the books come the closure of the January window we'll still have to play a total of 46 League games over the course of the domestic season.

Okay isn't match fit, Mowatt could suffer a setback, Molumby's inconsistent, we have no idea what Bruce's plans are for TGH and Jake possibly splits his shorts as often as he does opinion. While they don't all cover the same position or play the same role they're all midfield options.

Spoiler alert. This is going to come as bad news for some. In the likely event Jake's still here for the start of the season, and we can't offload him in January, it's more probable than not he still has a part to play. And it won't be for glove sales or to put the cones out.

FA Cup 3rd round is on 7th Jan.

Totally agree that Livermore will have a role to play.
I'd expect to see him line up at Boro on Saturday and probably be starting until Okay is match fit.



Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 26, 2022, 09:05:07 AM
The goods news is that they say Yokuslu has kept himself in decent condition. Hopefully see him (OY) on the bench for the Watford game
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on July 26, 2022, 12:41:34 PM
The goods news is that they say Yokuslu has kept himself in decent condition. Hopefully see him (OY) on the bench for the Watford game

Yokuslu on one leg is a big upgrade on Livermore. I'm confident we will not see much of Jake this season, he will be left on the bench and reserves as he'd rather take what money he has left on his contract than sign elsewhere for a much reduced salary that is consistent with what he can offer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 26, 2022, 12:49:02 PM
Yokuslu on one leg is a big upgrade on Livermore. I'm confident we will not see much of Jake this season, he will be left on the bench and reserves as he'd rather take what money he has left on his contract than sign elsewhere for a much reduced salary that is consistent with what he can offer.

I think you might be right. JL has not got long left to play football. However he is within his rights to sit out  the stupid deal Dowling gave him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 26, 2022, 10:07:23 PM
I think you might be right. JL has not got long left to play football. However he is within his rights to sit out  the stupid deal Dowling gave him.

Livermore should be gone by now if our Managers from last season hadn't been stupid enough to give him 25 starts to trigger the one season extension.

He was a big reason why we never threatened the top 6 last season.   

Amongst the very worst midfielders within the Championship.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on July 26, 2022, 11:26:37 PM
One of the main reasons for our decline . There’s enough competition in the midfield now for him to be a peripheral figure .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 27, 2022, 09:14:02 AM
Livermore should be gone by now if our Managers from last season hadn't been stupid enough to give him 25 starts to trigger the one season extension.

He was a big reason why we never threatened the top 6 last season.   

Amongst the very worst midfielders within the Championship.

We were in the top 6 until Bruce arrived in February. The whole team was under performing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 09:47:07 AM
We were in the top 6 until Bruce arrived in February. The whole team was under performing.

Lowest number of goals scored in a championship season since when?

We couldn't create, that's why we never went up.  Ismael was focused on a rock solid defence and it worked for roughly 20 games.  When the dam burst, that was it. 

Livermore was excellent for roughly the first 8 games which contributed to a strong start.  But then it was evident he couldn't keep up with the energetic press.  It was at this point Mulumby and TGH should've taken over.  However, Livermore continued and we made it worse by then adding Reach to the midfield.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 27, 2022, 10:10:28 AM
Lowest number of goals scored in a championship season since when?

We couldn't create, that's why we never went up.  Ismael was focused on a rock solid defence and it worked for roughly 20 games.  When the dam burst, that was it. 

Livermore was excellent for roughly the first 8 games which contributed to a strong start.  But then it was evident he couldn't keep up with the energetic press.  It was at this point Mulumby and TGH should've taken over.  However, Livermore continued and we made it worse by then adding Reach to the midfield.

I agree that lack of goals/creativity was a big reason why we never went, which has more to do with full backs poor crossing, no forwards anticipating balls into the box, lack of creativity from all the midfield, poor finishing etc.

Molumby was like a headless chicken when he first came into the side. His discipline was as bad as Livermore's (1 less red, 1 more yellow). He didn't really contribute anything to our creativity.

TGH looked good but his lack of experience started to show in later games.

Agree about Reach in midfield though, he adds nothing.

The whole team stopped pressing, Livermore was one of the few players that tried to keep pressing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 10:22:20 AM
I agree that lack of goals/creativity was a big reason why we never went, which has more to do with full backs poor crossing, no forwards anticipating balls into the box, lack of creativity from all the midfield, poor finishing etc.

Molumby was like a headless chicken when he first came into the side. His discipline was as bad as Livermore's (1 less red, 1 more yellow). He didn't really contribute anything to our creativity.

TGH looked good but his lack of experience started to show in later games.

Agree about Reach in midfield though, he adds nothing.

The whole team stopped pressing, Livermore was one of the few players that tried to keep pressing.

Livermore cost £11m and was supposed to be a heavy weight signing for us.  He has never been convincing, not even in the Championship.  He doesn't look accomplished and when you add in lack of mobility.

TGH and Molumby are kids still finding their feet.  However, Molumby is a full Rep of Ireland international.  I do think there development was stunted by the likes of Livermore and Reach.

Livermore for this upcoming season is just bleeding the club on wages for no return.  And people turn their anger on Johnstone and Robinson.  I just find it bizarre.  Robinson has been a good player for us and a fantastic swap for the ineffective Burke.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on July 27, 2022, 10:29:04 AM
Jake is going to be "in the frame" all season mate. Are you going to carry on your tirade of abuse for another bloody season?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on July 27, 2022, 10:51:38 AM
I agree that lack of goals/creativity was a big reason why we never went, which has more to do with full backs poor crossing, no forwards anticipating balls into the box,

How many times did I bang on about that last season? The number of times we put balls dangerous balls across the area was ridiculous. I remember there were somewhere around 15 or 16 before Val even left. Good forwards and we would've got half a dozen goals from them alone, easily.

Now, contrast that with the friendly against Hertha. Two crosses from wide were converted by two NEW additions in Swift and Dike. Is that a co-incidence? I don't think so.

The first one Grady beats a man then crosses first time, the second one Wallace crosses first time. Because of this forwards know how to time their run. If it were Matt Phillips instead of Wallace he'd have fainted to cross, come back on his left foot, fainted again before probably crossing with his right foot. That's no good but he does it all the time. Defenders can set themselves and forwards can't time a run if they don't know the ball is coming in.

It's a two way thing, delivery has to be good and it has to be early but you need forwards that have the quality and instinct to make the right runs at the right times. We didn't have that last season.

The fact that Livermore or Molumby for that matter gets criticised for lack of creativity is mind boggling because that's not what either player is in the team to do. We just got so desperate last season because no one was doing it.

You can criticise Livermore for his lack of mobility or his poor disciplinary record, that's understandable but when he gets criticised at the same time as criticising about lack of creativity it's sort of a redundant argument.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 10:53:52 AM
"in the frame", is JL taking up Snooker?

I'm amazed people continue to ignore JL's deficiencies and give him a free pass 'because he's a nice guy.

WBA's promotion aspirations are directly linked to player quality.  Why do you think Bruce has signed Yokuslu, Swift and Wallace all for midfield?  Maybe Bruce agrees with me in what we saw from last season's midfield? 

If Livermore put his career first he'd be off to another club immediately to get regular playing time.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 10:57:48 AM
How many times did I bang on about that last season? The number of times we put balls dangerous balls across the area was ridiculous. I remember there were somewhere around 15 or 16 before Val even left. Good forwards and we would've got half a dozen goals from them alone, easily.

Now, contrast that with the friendly against Hertha. Two crosses from wide were converted by two NEW additions in Swift and Dike. Is that a co-incidence? I don't think so.

The first one Grady beats a man then crosses first time, the second one Wallace crosses first time. Because of this forwards know how to time their run. If it were Matt Phillips instead of Wallace he'd have fainted to cross, come back on his left foot, fainted again before probably crossing with his right foot. That's no good but he does it all the time. Defenders can set themselves and forwards can't time a run if they don't know the ball is coming in.

It's a two way thing, delivery has to be good and it has to be early but you need forwards that have the quality and instinct to make the right runs at the right times. We didn't have that last season.

The fact that Livermore or Molumby for that matter gets criticised for lack of creativity is mind boggling because that's not what either player is in the team to do. We just got so desperate last season because no one was doing it.

You can criticise Livermore for his lack of mobility or his poor disciplinary record, that's understandable but when he gets criticised at the same time as criticising about lack of creativity it's sort of a redundant argument.

You are blaming wingers for last season's lack of creativity?

In previous promotion campaigns we've had the likes of Koren, Greening, Koumas, Texeira, Pereira all creating from central positions.

For £11m and with a Premier League pedigree, you'd expect even just a small amount of vision and flair.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on July 27, 2022, 10:59:55 AM
"in the frame", is JL taking up Snooker?

I'm amazed people continue to ignore JL's deficiencies and give him a free pass 'because he's a nice guy.

WBA's promotion aspirations are directly linked to player quality.  Why do you think Bruce has signed Yokuslu, Swift and Wallace all for midfield?  Maybe Bruce agrees with me in what we saw from last season's midfield? 

If Livermore put his career first he'd be off to another club immediately to get regular playing time.

His career is almost over, he's played in the PL, he's played for England he almost certainly won't be looking to better himself now.

It's not his fault Dowling came him the contract he did. JL is perfectly entitled to honour it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 11:00:06 AM
If we pidgeon-hole Livermore as defensive midfield, then Molumby is a better play at doing that anyway.

Net result is Livermore is not required at WBA.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on July 27, 2022, 11:02:58 AM
You are blaming wingers for last season's lack of creativity?

In previous promotion campaigns we've had the likes of Koren, Greening, Koumas, Texeira, Pereira all creating from central positions.

For £11m and with a Premier League pedigree, you'd expect even just a small amount of vision and flair.

None of those you mentioned were defensive minded midfielders. Koumas was often left forward, Pereira was predominantly a "10".

We've also had the likes of Claudio Yacob.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on July 27, 2022, 11:04:52 AM
If we pidgeon-hole Livermore as defensive midfield, then Molumby is a better play at doing that anyway.

Net result is Livermore is not required at WBA.

You can keep banging the same drum but if he wants to see out his contract he's perfectly entitled to and all the bellyaching in the world won't change that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 11:08:26 AM
You can keep banging the same drum but if he wants to see out his contract he's perfectly entitled to and all the bellyaching in the world won't change that.

JL should be treated with contempt for outstaying his welcome at WBA. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 27, 2022, 11:10:29 AM


I'm taking your inability to use the quote function correctly as a sign that your face is currently in transition somewhere between purple and blue......  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 27, 2022, 11:15:02 AM
JL should be treated with contempt for outstaying his welcome at WBA.

That could be applied to half the squad at times though. It's no players fault we are chained to dross, it's the clowns that ran the club
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on July 27, 2022, 11:16:23 AM
JL should be treated with contempt for outstaying his welcome at WBA.

Ridiculous comment. You can't criticise anyone for honouring a contract.

Your argument is irrational. Maybe not to you but to the wider world it is.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on July 27, 2022, 11:19:40 AM
Lowest number of goals scored in a championship season since when?

We couldn't create, that's why we never went up.  Ismael was focused on a rock solid defence and it worked for roughly 20 games.  When the dam burst, that was it. 

Livermore was excellent for roughly the first 8 games which contributed to a strong start.  But then it was evident he couldn't keep up with the energetic press.  It was at this point Mulumby and TGH should've taken over.  However, Livermore continued and we made it worse by then adding Reach to the midfield.

Not three words Iever thought you would put together Greg😂
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 27, 2022, 11:28:16 AM
I mean, he is an awful footballer who, with age, has lost the only ability he had, which was covering a decent amount of ground, but the blame for him still being here is solely with previous persons in managerial roles within the club who afforded terrible footballers, lengthy and costly contracts.

When the end of the season rolls around, there will be no more Bartley and Livermore which I truly cannot wait for.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 27, 2022, 11:33:48 AM
I mean, he is an awful footballer who, with age, has lost the only ability he had, which was covering a decent amount of ground, but the blame for him still being here is solely with previous persons in managerial roles within the club who afforded terrible footballers, lengthy and costly contracts.

When the end of the season rolls around, there will be no more Bartley and Livermore which I truly cannot wait for.
It’s always a risk,footballers all dip off at different ages and at differing rates of knots.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 27, 2022, 11:35:52 AM
JL should be treated with contempt for outstaying his welcome at WBA.

Your argument loses all credibility when you come out with garbage like this.

Your hatred for JL just shines through in all of your posts.

And anyone who treats a player with contempt for honouring a contract we've dished out to them is a prat of the highest order. It is uncalled for and quite frankly unacceptable.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 27, 2022, 11:36:14 AM
It’s always a risk,footballers all dip off at different ages and at differing rates of knots.

Giving a guy whose only attribute is linked to the factors that naturally dip as you get older a five year contract was always fairly ridiculous. Technically, he has always been nothing short of abysmal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 11:37:51 AM
Your argument loses all credibility when you come out with garbage like this.

Your hatred for JL just shines through in all of your posts.

And anyone who treats a player with contempt for honouring a contract we've dished out to them is a prat of the highest order. It is uncalled for and quite frankly unacceptable.

You calling me a prat, just as well you are a moderator because if that is the other way around it is a forum ban!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 11:39:45 AM
Your argument loses all credibility when you come out with garbage like this.

Your hatred for JL just shines through in all of your posts.

And anyone who treats a player with contempt for honouring a contract we've dished out to them is a prat of the highest order. It is uncalled for and quite frankly unacceptable.

You know what winds me up, people having a pop at Johnstone and Robinson, whilst saying nothing regarding Livermore.

Livermore is an £11m liability.

Just the ex Villa connection then.....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 27, 2022, 11:53:49 AM
I think the issue, Greg, is that the majority (well anyone with working eyes at least) of people can see that Livermore is terrible, but there is a difference between thinking someone isn't very good and showing pure hatred and bile towards them which, as the months have gone by, is the point you have reached with him.

In an ideal world Jake would have done the right thing for the club and not triggered the extension as whatever he is being paid by us is still far too much, but he knows that this is his last contract of any worth so you cannot begrudge him taking it. Blame those who afforded him that option in the first place
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on July 27, 2022, 11:57:13 AM
You know what winds me up, people having a pop at Johnstone and Robinson, whilst saying nothing regarding Livermore.

Livermore is an £11m liability.

Just the ex Villa connection then.....

I'd say Bartley probably gets as much criticism as anyone does, he never played for Villa.

Maybe you're just seeing things you want to see?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 12:07:15 PM
Johnstone has moved to a mid table EPL club, so all those continually berating him now look to have egg on the faces, sure he wasn't perfect, but he's now bettered himself.

Robinson has been infinitely better than Burke, who was £15m of trash, what is the exact problem with Robinson.

Bartley cost £400,000 probably worth what we paid.

Livermore £11m say no more......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 12:09:39 PM
I think the issue, Greg, is that the majority (well anyone with working eyes at least) of people can see that Livermore is terrible, but there is a difference between thinking someone isn't very good and showing pure hatred and bile towards them which, as the months have gone by, is the point you have reached with him.

In an ideal world Jake would have done the right thing for the club and not triggered the extension as whatever he is being paid by us is still far too much, but he knows that this is his last contract of any worth so you cannot begrudge him taking it. Blame those who afforded him that option in the first place

I saw people hammering Johnstone regularly which was pure hatred.

I saw people berating Robinson for ducking out of ONE CHALLENGE in one match.  Small minded and not seeing the picture.

Yes I can't stand Livermore because we have wasted £11m on rubbish, Burke was even worse at £15m, thankfully he didn't hang around......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on July 27, 2022, 12:11:29 PM
Do you know something Greg.

Every now and then on a special birthday or through a lockdown or something, a player or ex player will, right out of the blue, phone a fan and have a chat with them.

If any player or ex player ever phones you, I really wish I could see your face if it turned out to be Jake Livermore.  ;D

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: phbaggies on July 27, 2022, 12:15:11 PM
Johnstone has moved to a mid table EPL club, so all those continually berating him now look to have egg on the faces, sure he wasn't perfect, but he's now bettered himself.

Robinson has been infinitely better than Burke, who was £15m of trash, what is the exact problem with Robinson.

Bartley cost £400,000 probably worth what we paid.

Livermore £11m say no more......
I thought it was £10m? 174 games for us over 5 years (plus England call-ups), countless managers, all rate him. Yes we could get better, particularly in the premiership, but he isn't half as bad as you try to make out!

He genuinely gave a sh/t when we got promoted during covid as it saved jobs at the club, his tears of relief wasn't lost on me, at least he cared, and at least he tries.....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on July 27, 2022, 12:40:01 PM
I thought it was £10m? 174 games for us over 5 years (plus England call-ups), countless managers, all rate him. Yes we could get better, particularly in the premiership, but he isn't half as bad as you try to make out!

He genuinely gave a sh/t when we got promoted during covid as it saved jobs at the club, his tears of relief wasn't lost on me, at least he cared, and at least he tries.....

Not entirely true ph, Big Sam dropped him as soon as he could. Your second paragraph however is entirely correct.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on July 27, 2022, 01:39:23 PM
Lowest number of goals scored in a championship season since when?

We couldn't create, that's why we never went up. Ismael was focused on a rock solid defence and it worked for roughly 20 games.  When the dam burst, that was it. 

Livermore was excellent for roughly the first 8 games which contributed to a strong start.  But then it was evident he couldn't keep up with the energetic press.  It was at this point Mulumby and TGH should've taken over.  However, Livermore continued and we made it worse by then adding Reach to the midfield.

Actually we could create, we just couldn't finish.

No forward or winger in our team outperformed their non-penalty xG, meaning they all had below average seasons for finishing. Grant was closest at 98% of his expected goals, but if Hugill and Robinson  performed at a similar rate, we'd have been fine. Hugill would have had an extra 5 goals in his half season, and Robinson would have made double figures. .

Also, Ismael wasn't "focused on a rock solid defence". He was focused on pressing and winning the ball high up the pitch, so the opposition is out of position. The fact that means the defence had to do less is a welcome bonus.

You warp everything because of this irrational hatred of a player. You think members who tell you you're wrong have a love-in with him. I don't think anyone would have him in their first choice XI, but unlike you we don't blame him for being here. I daresay plenty of us would rather he hadn't played so much over the past few seasons, but your dogged vendetta against makes you lack credibility in anything you say on the subject.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 27, 2022, 02:05:19 PM
You calling me a prat, just as well you are a moderator because if that is the other way around it is a forum ban!

No.

I said anyone who treats a player with contempt purely because they do not like them being here is a prat and that such behaviour is totally unacceptable.

If you fit that criteria then there's not a lot I can do about that other than pity you.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on July 27, 2022, 02:10:54 PM
You know what winds me up, people having a pop at Johnstone and Robinson, whilst saying nothing regarding Livermore.

Livermore is an £11m liability.

Just the ex Villa connection then.....

This thread is littered with posters (myself included) who have been criticial of Livermore.

I've also been critical of Johnstone and Robinson too.

The problem you have is that you have some warped viewpoint that everyone is a supportive of Livermore when this is really not the case.

Your hatred for the bloke means you cannot even view this forum with any objectivity anymore because you constantly make up myths to try and support your views.

The difference between you, me and other members of this forum is quite stark.

We criticise Livermore for his performances. You just hate him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 27, 2022, 02:14:23 PM
I've slated Livermore, Bartley and Phillips loads as they turn in rubbish performances more often than not IMO.

Saying that you simply cannot blame any of them for taking the contracts our dumbass owners dish out via their minions.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggie79 on July 27, 2022, 02:26:07 PM
My heart sinks every time I log on and see another petty Livermore topic added too. Get over it and just accept that some like him and some dont and then talk about something that matters.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 27, 2022, 03:00:32 PM
Well I don't know about anyone else but I'm still waiting for the Moderators to reveal the identity of the .com Player of the Year Award winner.

Maestro! Drum roll if you please. And hurry. We wouldn't want it drowned out by the sound of coordinated artillery fire as posters lose the combined contents of their heads and bowels.

Put us out of our collective misery please, cruel to be kind and all that malarkey. Come on lads.........you can doooo it ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on July 27, 2022, 03:36:59 PM
I never expected to logon, see a Livermore post, and then see GREGMT uttering more diatribe about him.

Im shocked... :-X

As for JL, he isnt my favourite player, but he isnt the worst, he absolutely should be in and around the squad this year.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on July 27, 2022, 05:25:44 PM
In terms of creativity, I don't think there's much between him and Mulumby. Mulumby has youth on his side and maybe because of that has more in his engine.

However,  I always look at how midfielders use the ball. I think JL tries to pass through the lines, and find a player in potential threatening positions, whereas Mulumby 99% of the time goes safety first, sideways or backwards, allowing defences plenty of time to re-group into their shape. The downside to Jake's game though, is that he is poor at weighting his through passes accurately. He also has a habit of lunging at the ball, meaning it flies anywhere. 

I'm hoping Mulumby's game has improved since last season, but I doubt he will ever reach the standard of Mowatt or TGH.

To be frank, I wouldn't shed any tears if neither JL nor Mulumby make the starting eleven, but for SB to play both would be criminal, as it would stifle our midfield creativity. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 07:06:11 PM
No.

I said anyone who treats a player with contempt purely because they do not like them being here is a prat and that such behaviour is totally unacceptable.

If you fit that criteria then there's not a lot I can do about that other than pity you.

Pity me for what?  Lol.  I'm sharper than you as a football fan, have more life experience, you must get drink at the games?  If that is true how can you see the match objectively?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 07:09:00 PM
This is laughable.  Just because I chose not to follow the herd.  Loads of WBA fans "hated" Johnstone.  Yet Johnstone is now in the Premier League, is this jealousy?

I don't like Livermore 'because I don't think he's ever been any good as a footballer and we can't get rid.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Tony Goddens Gloves on July 27, 2022, 07:49:39 PM
To add my ten penneth. Livermore is a must around the squad and dressing room. He may not be a great footballer but as a man and captain he is definitely key.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on July 27, 2022, 07:49:51 PM
Drunk
If you were genuinely “sharper” , you’d know how to edit posts .

Just to be clear, I don’t rate Livermore in his current position within the club, however if TGH,Molumby,and various other midfielders that have been available during his tenure here have all been so much and so obviously better…..then don’t you look towards Pulis, Fat Sam,Billic, Val, and every other manager that has given us 6 months of their time ….because they were the ones that picked him?
You don’t like him, that’s fine, trying to make everyone else dislike him as much looks weird , I (like you) wouldn’t want Robinson to go…
But if you were a ambitious top half champ club……which of the following would you want from us
Robbo
Phillips
Zohore
Livermore
Bartley
Exactly, if we need to raise funds there’s only one realistic option.

Your point about Johnstone also doesn’t stand, he’s left to go the prem….well, he’s left to sit on a bench in the prem, you may say he played for England , I’d throw that back to you in a Livermore sized shirt.
Some of the best managers in the world have signed keepers in the prem and they were absolute s4it
Massiomo taibi anyone?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 08:30:29 PM
To add my ten penneth. Livermore is a must around the squad and dressing room. He may not be a great footballer but as a man and captain he is definitely key.

Why not take Roy Keane then from Sky Sports?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 08:32:49 PM
If you were genuinely “sharper” , you’d know how to edit posts .

Just to be clear, I don’t rate Livermore in his current position within the club, however if TGH,Molumby,and various other midfielders that have been available during his tenure here have all been so much and so obviously better…..then don’t you look towards Pulis, Fat Sam,Billic, Val, and every other manager that has given us 6 months of their time ….because they were the ones that picked him?
You don’t like him, that’s fine, trying to make everyone else dislike him as much looks weird , I (like you) wouldn’t want Robinson to go…
But if you were a ambitious top half champ club……which of the following would you want from us
Robbo
Phillips
Zohore
Livermore
Bartley
Exactly, if we need to raise funds there’s only one realistic option.

Your point about Johnstone also doesn’t stand, he’s left to go the prem….well, he’s left to sit on a bench in the prem, you may say he played for England , I’d throw that back to you in a Livermore sized shirt.
Some of the best managers in the world have signed keepers in the prem and they were absolute s4it
Massiomo taibi anyone?

Nail hit on the head.

You have just said Robinson is the most saleable asset, therefore he must be the best player of that sorry list. 

Yet people still like to berate Robinson, very odd behaviour.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 08:41:10 PM
If you were genuinely “sharper” , you’d know how to edit posts .

Just to be clear, I don’t rate Livermore in his current position within the club, however if TGH,Molumby,and various other midfielders that have been available during his tenure here have all been so much and so obviously better…..then don’t you look towards Pulis, Fat Sam,Billic, Val, and every other manager that has given us 6 months of their time ….because they were the ones that picked him?
You don’t like him, that’s fine, trying to make everyone else dislike him as much looks weird , I (like you) wouldn’t want Robinson to go…
But if you were a ambitious top half champ club……which of the following would you want from us
Robbo
Phillips
Zohore
Livermore
Bartley
Exactly, if we need to raise funds there’s only one realistic option.

Your point about Johnstone also doesn’t stand, he’s left to go the prem….well, he’s left to sit on a bench in the prem, you may say he played for England , I’d throw that back to you in a Livermore sized shirt.
Some of the best managers in the world have signed keepers in the prem and they were absolute s4it
Massiomo taibi anyone?

Still clinging to the hope Johnstone fails at Palace?  Why?  I don't care, he's no longer a WBA player. 

I remember him being hammered almost every game even when he was far from being the worst performer.  I think that is hate.

Livermore has been loyal to WBA because no big or medium sized ever club wanted him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on July 27, 2022, 08:53:12 PM
To add my ten penneth. Livermore is a must around the squad and dressing room. He may not be a great footballer but as a man and captain he is definitely key.

Sorry, that is ridiculous. Following your logic he needs a new 10 year contract to do whatever it is that you think is so fantastic behind the scenes.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on July 27, 2022, 08:54:45 PM
The goods news is that this thread is going to be a lot quieter this season, Livermore's days are numbered IMV, now Bruce has had an opportunity to being Okay in.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 27, 2022, 11:16:37 PM
The goods news is that this thread is going to be a lot quieter this season, Livermore's days are numbered IMV, now Bruce has had an opportunity to being Okay in.

Got a funny feeling this thread's going to be busier than you expect. Prediction time. If he stays with us for the whole season he'll get at least eight starts in the League to cover injuries, suspensions and rotation. At least. And then there's two or more Cup games to consider.

He'll also get a fair number of cameo appearances from the bench to try and close games out. I'd hate to think he'd be sent on to chase them at any rate. Well, unless Bruce has designs on him being an emergency forward of course ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 27, 2022, 11:31:10 PM
Livermore gets even bigger/fatter/muscular when not playing. 

His body type is not suited to fleeting appearances as with a small frame such as Ryan Giggs.

Another reason to seek regular football......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 27, 2022, 11:52:39 PM
Livermore gets even bigger/fatter/muscular when not playing. 

His body type is not suited to fleeting appearances as with a small frame such as Ryan Giggs.

Another reason to seek regular football......

Ha ha ha. Of all the reasons you want him out I never expected it to be for his own wellbeing. I know he's awkward with his movements but you'd be surprised regarding bulk and frame if you ever stood next to him. He's got a large frame but I was expecting more muscle to be honest. I was surprised at how lean he looked in person.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on July 28, 2022, 04:50:36 AM
I'm pretty certain he'll be starting with Yokuslu.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on July 28, 2022, 06:26:29 AM
Got a funny feeling this thread's going to be busier than you expect. Prediction time. If he stays with us for the whole season he'll get at least eight starts in the League to cover injuries, suspensions and rotation. At least. And then there's two or more Cup games to consider.

He'll also get a fair number of cameo appearances from the bench to try and close games out. I'd hate to think he'd be sent on to chase them at any rate. Well, unless Bruce has designs on him being an emergency forward of course ;D .

I expect he will still get a lot more than 8 if fit. 8 would be progress but I still think he’ll get at least 20 Starts unless we get some loans in that change things further. If fit I expect him to start at Boro.

It’s time for us to phase him out and has been for a while, but If Bruce is struggling like I expect him to, he will be one of of the players he reverts to.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Barrington on July 28, 2022, 06:41:40 AM
Johnstone has moved to a mid table EPL club, so all those continually berating him now look to have egg on the faces, sure he wasn't perfect, but he's now bettered himself.

Not really. Scott Carson is also at the Premier League champions (or was). It's because they're English so help them fill up their home-grown quota. It's not because they're top level goalkeepers.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 28, 2022, 09:05:24 AM
I expect he will still get a lot more than 8 if fit. 8 would be progress but I still think he’ll get at least 20 Starts unless we get some loans in that change things further. If fit I expect him to start at Boro.

It’s time for us to phase him out and has been for a while, but If Bruce is struggling like I expect him to, he will be one of of the players he reverts to.

20 starts!  For starters Molumby is superior in that position, then Yokuslu, Swift and Wallace have been signed. 

JL should be bottom of the list.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 28, 2022, 09:12:28 AM
20 starts!  For starters Molumby is superior in that position, then Yokuslu, Swift and Wallace have been signed. 

JL should be bottom of the list.

Swift and Wallace don't play in the same position as Livermore.

A bit of a stretch to say Molumby is superior to Livermore pretty similar from what I've seen only that Molumby is younger.

Yokuslu will rightly be first choice when he's fit which should see Livermore on the bench but Bruce might go for a Livermore & Yokuslu pairing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 28, 2022, 09:52:08 AM
Swift and Wallace don't play in the same position as Livermore.

A bit of a stretch to say Molumby is superior to Livermore pretty similar from what I've seen only that Molumby is younger.

Yokuslu will rightly be first choice when he's fit which should see Livermore on the bench but Bruce might go for a Livermore & Yokuslu pairing.

Molumby towards the end of last season in about last 4 games was really getting his game together.  Due to playing more he was feeling relaxed.  He is obviously far more mobile.

Playing Livermore ahead of him would be a massively backward move and stunting Molumby's natural progression even more.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on July 28, 2022, 10:09:34 AM
Got a funny feeling this thread's going to be busier than you expect. Prediction time. If he stays with us for the whole season he'll get at least eight starts in the League to cover injuries, suspensions and rotation. At least. And then there's two or more Cup games to consider.

He'll also get a fair number of cameo appearances from the bench to try and close games out. I'd hate to think he'd be sent on to chase them at any rate. Well, unless Bruce has designs on him being an emergency forward of course ;D .

8 starts in 46 league games plus the cups - hardly putting your neck out on the line. Hopefully Okay is playing asap.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ben_westbrom on July 28, 2022, 10:26:04 AM
Swift and Wallace don't play in the same position as Livermore.

A bit of a stretch to say Molumby is superior to Livermore pretty similar from what I've seen only that Molumby is younger.

Yokuslu will rightly be first choice when he's fit which should see Livermore on the bench but Bruce might go for a Livermore & Yokuslu pairing.

Thats how I see it as well, especially against tougher opposition. Try to keep it tight with Mowatt or Molumby coming on later on in the game.

Not what i'd do, or want to see. But it's what I think Bruce will do.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 28, 2022, 11:58:59 AM
8 starts in 46 league games plus the cups - hardly putting your neck out on the line. Hopefully Okay is playing asap.

I said 'at least' twice in that post. I'll state so again in case you missed it. 'At least', plus the substitute appearances. Again, this thread will be more active than you think. I thoroughly agree re Yokuslu, a better player and a more mobile option than Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on July 28, 2022, 12:19:52 PM
Livermore will (likely) start against Boro, if we get 3 points, he will start the following game, and so on.

Injuries or losses will be required for him to lose his place, Hope he racks up 40+ games personally
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on July 28, 2022, 01:19:20 PM
Livermore will (likely) start against Boro, if we get 3 points, he will start the following game, and so on.

Injuries or losses will be required for him to lose his place, Hope he racks up 40+ games personally

You actually rate him as a midfielder? I didn't think anybody who watched us play and wants promotion did.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on July 29, 2022, 02:26:25 AM
If he plays 40+ games for us this season ,we will be nearer the bottom of the table than the top!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on July 29, 2022, 03:48:22 AM
You actually rate him as a midfielder? I didn't think anybody who watched us play and wants promotion did.

Think he has been a good servant to the club & will play his role this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 29, 2022, 07:18:05 AM
Think he has been a good servant to the club & will play his role this season.
:-X

Posting at 3.48am, the sleep deprivation must be getting to you  :-X
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: NJS on July 29, 2022, 10:13:14 AM
Just popped by.  Is anybody actually following this thread anymore? ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 10:45:30 AM
Just very shocked that most WBA fans see Livermore as a better player than Molumby.

The evidence says otherwise.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on July 29, 2022, 10:58:07 AM
Just very shocked that most WBA fans see Livermore as a better player than Molumby.

The evidence says otherwise.
Do you ever have a day off?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on July 29, 2022, 11:10:03 AM
Just very shocked that most WBA fans see Livermore as a better player than Molumby.

The evidence says otherwise.

what evidence is that then?

Sofa Score who are impartial give Livermore an average season rating of 6.69 and Molumby a rating of 6.55.

https://www.sofascore.com/player/jake-livermore/34578

https://www.sofascore.com/player/jayson-molumby/856718
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 11:39:08 AM
Even if that is accurate it is a differential of 0.14.

Molumby Is the future, Livermore is the past.  Players get worse as they move further into their 30's.  Players generally improve as they move towards their mid 20's. 

If Bruce prioritises Molumby over Livermore that is very sensible.  In any case Molumby is the one with more minutes pre-season.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on July 29, 2022, 11:45:57 AM
Even if that is accurate it is a differential of 0.14.

Molumby Is the future, Livermore is the past.  Players get worse as they move further into their 30's.  Players generally improve as they move towards their mid 20's. 

If Bruce prioritises Molumby over Livermore that is very sensible.  In any case Molumby is the one with more minutes pre-season.

Is it possible that Livermore is the past and Molumby isn’t the future?! Because based on everything you say about Livermore and based on “evidence” Molumby hasn’t done anything to prove he’s the future (yet).

I don’t think Molumby is the stick to beat Livermore with and I don’t think people are saying Livermore is better they are just saying he’s more likely to start.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on July 29, 2022, 11:51:37 AM
I don't rate Molumby at all and think he is a poor signing. No better than Livermore other than he gets around the pitch a lot more. If we want automatic promotion then neither should be starting regularly. I do think Bruce will go with Livermore and Yokuslu though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on July 29, 2022, 12:19:47 PM
Apparently, Livermore has been ill and regarded as doubtful for Boro, personally I would rule him out if he hasn't trained all week and suffering from whatever it is he has.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 29, 2022, 12:25:28 PM
Just very shocked that most WBA fans see Livermore as a better player than Molumby.

The evidence says otherwise.

We're going to have to start calling you Trigger if you keep coming out with these half cocked sweeping statements  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 01:50:47 PM
We're going to have to start calling you Trigger if you keep coming out with these half cocked sweeping statements  ;D  ;) .

Molumby is the better player, what attributes does Livermore have?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on July 29, 2022, 01:53:07 PM
Just very shocked that most WBA fans see Livermore as a better player than Molumby.

The evidence says otherwise.
What makes Molumby so much better then? Its good that he gets around the pitch, closing people down, tracking back etc., but his passing range is fairly abysmal. I would only bring on Molumby when we are defending a 1-0 lead in the 83rd minute. He can then play the ball sideways and backwards and help see the game out. But if we needed a goal, I'd rather have Livermore.  Though Yokuslu especially, or TGH, would be better than both.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 02:02:46 PM
What makes Molumby so much better then? Its good that he gets around the pitch, closing people down, tracking back etc., but his passing range is fairly abysmal. I would only bring on Molumby when we are defending a 1-0 lead in the 83rd minute. He can then play the ball sideways and backwards and help see the game out. But if we needed a goal, I'd rather have Livermore.  Though Yokuslu especially, or TGH, would be better than both.

Use Livermore if we need a goal?  Check JL's assists record.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on July 29, 2022, 02:07:58 PM
Use Livermore if we need a goal?  Check JL's assists record.
I know they are poor. But are Molumby's any better? At least JL tries more often to pass into dangerous areas (even if most of the time the passes are overhit, wrong height etc).
Molumby is happier jogging along making harmless sideways and backwards passes, giving defences bags of time to re-group into their shape.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: phbaggies on July 29, 2022, 02:13:14 PM
Livermore is well and truly in Bruce's plans:

“We are looking okay, the big one is Jake Livermore. He has been sick and under the weather,” Bruce added. “We will give him as long as we possibly can because we’d like his experience for the first game of the season that’s for sure.”
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on July 29, 2022, 02:15:20 PM
You actually rate him as a midfielder? I didn't think anybody who watched us play and wants promotion did.
Re-read what I posted without your pre-conceptions loaded
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on July 29, 2022, 02:16:25 PM
Livermore must have been sick for a while. He wasn't in the squad for the Hertha game and that was a week ago and from memory I don't think the played in the friendly prior to that at Oxford.

Wonder what's wrong with him? Seems long enough to be feeling "under the weather".
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 02:26:30 PM
Livermore is well and truly in Bruce's plans:

“We are looking okay, the big one is Jake Livermore. He has been sick and under the weather,” Bruce added. “We will give him as long as we possibly can because we’d like his experience for the first game of the season that’s for sure.”

As long as we get the results and average >= 2.0 pts per game with JL starting, then all is well.

If Livermore starts, the ball is in his court to perform.  He had a great start last season, then it unravelled.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on July 29, 2022, 02:32:47 PM
As long as we get the results and average >= 2.0 pts per game with JL starting, then all is well.

If Livermore starts, the ball is in his court to perform.  He had a great start last season, then it unravelled.
Spot on !!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on July 29, 2022, 02:46:08 PM
Livermore is well and truly in Bruce's plans:

“We are looking okay, the big one is Jake Livermore. He has been sick and under the weather,” Bruce added. “We will give him as long as we possibly can because we’d like his experience for the first game of the season that’s for sure.”
And there you have it
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 29, 2022, 03:13:05 PM
And there you have it

Agreed, there it is, manager who took us from the play off places to mid-table obscurity confirms he wants to play Livermore  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 29, 2022, 04:00:43 PM
As long as we get the results and average >= 2.0 pts per game with JL starting, then all is well.

If Livermore starts, the ball is in his court to perform.  He had a great start last season, then it unravelled.

And we all know what'll happen if Molumby scores an own goal in the final minute of Jake's run in the team to take the points average to 1.99.

You'll bemoan Bruce for not giving Molumby more game time last season thus hindering his development while also leaving him with an underlying stamina issue which directly contributed to said late own goal.

You'll then (probably) go on to explain in deep and greatly pained detail about how Jake's finally managed to drag Molumby down to his level following a promising start to the season from our full Irish international.

Feel free to copy, paste and amend this post when the inevitable happens to free up time and get back to your voodoo effigy of Jake  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 05:53:00 PM
And we all know what'll happen if Molumby scores an own goal in the final minute of Jake's run in the team to take the points average to 1.99.

You'll bemoan Bruce for not giving Molumby more game time last season thus hindering his development while also leaving him with an underlying stamina issue which directly contributed to said late own goal.

You'll then (probably) go on to explain in deep and greatly pained detail about how Jake's finally managed to drag Molumby down to his level following a promising start to the season from our full Irish international.

Feel free to copy, paste and amend this post when the inevitable happens to free up time and get back to your voodoo effigy of Jake.

It would've been fair game if you'd gone after other posters for their unfair treatment of Robinson and Johnstone.

As it is Livermore must be one of your fave's? 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on July 29, 2022, 05:54:48 PM
Livermore must have been sick for a while. He wasn't in the squad for the Hertha game and that was a week ago and from memory I don't think the played in the friendly prior to that at Oxford.

Wonder what's wrong with him? Seems long enough to be feeling "under the weather".

Covid or maybe he is in the process of leaving?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 29, 2022, 06:19:08 PM
It would've been fair game if you'd gone after other posters for their unfair treatment of Robinson and Johnstone.

As it is Livermore must be one of your fave's?

I gave Johnstone support and credit when it was due. I gave him stick when I felt he deserved it. You only need check back a few posts to find I'd prefer Yokuslu to start ahead of Jake.

No love, I'd like to think I'm fair and balanced for the most part. There's more than a hint of narcissistic persecution complex about you lad and that's just fine. Takes all sorts to make a world.

#Don'tfollowtheherd  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 06:23:41 PM
I gave Johnstone support and credit when it was due. I gave him stick when I felt he deserved it. You only need check back a few posts to find I'd prefer Yokuslu to start ahead of Jake.

No love, I'd like to think I'm fair and balanced for the most part. There's more than a hint of narcissistic persecution complex about you lad and that's just fine. Takes all sorts to make a world.

#Don'tfollowtheherd  ;D  ;) .

Don't Follow The Herd, I sure don't mate, with a lot of posters on my back for having the gall to criticise Livermore so frequently. 

The trouble with you is you don't attack others for unjust criticisms of other players, so why is this?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on July 29, 2022, 06:46:42 PM
Don't Follow The Herd, I sure don't mate, with a lot of posters on my back for having the gall to criticise Livermore so frequently. 

The trouble with you is you don't attack others for unjust criticisms of other players, so why is this?

No one is on your back for criticising Livermore. You're not some martyr to this cause.

People get on your back because you have a single-eyed view of a player.

Plenty of posters criticise Livermore, and rightly so because he hasn't been very good for plenty of games.

But you seem to make everything about him. Livermore can never do anything right. He cannot have good games, he cannot be a positive for the team. That's ridiculous, unrealistic and ultimately unfair. It makes it seem like a personal vendetta rather than criticising a player for poor performance.

Maybe if you didn't act like some lone wolf raging against an oppressive system then people would be less likely to get on your back.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 06:51:51 PM
No one is on your back for criticising Livermore. You're not some martyr to this cause.

People get on your back because you have a single-eyed view of a player.

Plenty of posters criticise Livermore, and rightly so because he hasn't been very good for plenty of games.

But you seem to make everything about him. Livermore can never do anything right. He cannot have good games, he cannot be a positive for the team. That's ridiculous, unrealistic and ultimately unfair. It makes it seem like a personal vendetta rather than criticising a player for poor performance.

Maybe if you didn't act like some lone wolf raging against an oppressive system then people would be less likely to get on your back.

Wrong.  If you actually read my posts I praised Livermore highly for the opening 7 or 8 games last season but after that he was dross.

I've witnessed people hammer Johnstone match after match good, bad or average.

And that is a player now in the Premier League!

The poster declared he was willing to use a disparaging nickname from Only Fools and Horses. I dread to think his opinion about some of the less intellectual posters on here  :o
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on July 29, 2022, 07:23:26 PM
Wrong.  If you actually read my posts I praised Livermore highly for the opening 7 or 8 games last season but after that he was dross.

I've witnessed people hammer Johnstone match after match good, bad or average.

And that is a player now in the Premier League!

The poster declared he was willing to use a disparaging nickname from Only Fools and Horses. I dread to think his opinion about some of the less intellectual posters on here  :o
Maybe at a premier league club, but let's see how many games he gets and when he does get games how long until he messes up. And what makes you think you are more intellectual than other posters?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 07:56:31 PM
Maybe at a premier league club, but let's see how many games he gets and when he does get games how long until he messes up. And what makes you think you are more intellectual than other posters?

Mate, in all facets of life some people have more intellect then others.  I don't have to prove myself to others, they can judge.

Obsessed with Johnstone WTF?  That's narcissism.  He's not even our player.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 29, 2022, 08:05:56 PM
Mate, in all facets of life some people have more intellect then others.  I don't have to prove myself to others, they can judge.

Obsessed with Johnstone WTF?  That's narcissism.  He's not even our player.

Why do you feel the need to put others down? Its pointless and you know nothing about any other member on here so cut the patronising comments.

Your opinion about Livermore is just that, your opinion, same as every other person on here and like you they are entitled to it.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggie79 on July 29, 2022, 08:09:28 PM
Mate, in all facets of life some people have more intellect then others.  I don't have to prove myself to others, they can judge.

Obsessed with Johnstone WTF?  That's narcissism.  He's not even our player.

You are right about that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 08:12:27 PM
Why do you feel the need to put others down? Its pointless and you know nothing about any other member on here so cut the patronising comments.

Your opinion about Livermore is just that, your opinion, same as every other person on here and like you they are entitled to it.



A waste of energy IMO hoping for Johnstone to fail or any other ex WBA player.  We just come.across as being bitter and twisted as a fan base. 

As for you accusing me of putting down others, we had another poster thinking of a cheap nickname. When have I ever done that? 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 29, 2022, 08:23:02 PM
A waste of energy IMO hoping for Johnstone to fail or any other ex WBA player.  We just come.across as being bitter and twisted as a fan base. 

As for you accusing me of putting down others, we had another poster thinking of a cheap nickname. When have I ever done that?

You are putting down others though making claims about people you know absolutely nothing about for the simple reason they have a differing view to you.

Anyone posting cheap shots and nicknames for players get the posts removed and if they fail to listen to us they get banned, its in the rules already and has been for a few years.

As for the bitter and twisted fan base, do you honestly think this is just restricted to Albion fans? Have a look around other clubs sites and you will see no difference between all fans.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 08:59:20 PM
You are putting down others though making claims about people you know absolutely nothing about for the simple reason they have a differing view to you.

Anyone posting cheap shots and nicknames for players get the posts removed and if they fail to listen to us they get banned, its in the rules already and has been for a few years.

As for the bitter and twisted fan base, do you honestly think this is just restricted to Albion fans? Have a look around other clubs sites and you will see no difference between all fans.

Not talking about player nicknames, I'm talking about nicknames for other posters on here, I stated this clearly.

My view of people hounding Johnstone now is immature, childish and pointless.

Albion fans seem to appreciate loyalty above all else. 

I'll give you Burgess and Raven, neither was very good but they were there for a long time.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on July 29, 2022, 09:26:57 PM
Mate, in all facets of life some people have more intellect then others.  I don't have to prove myself to others, they can judge.

Obsessed with Johnstone WTF?  That's narcissism.  He's not even our player.
It was you who mentioned Johnstone being at a premier club! I just gave you my opinion. Not obsessed with Johnstone at all. Not like your obsession with Livermore now that's narcissism!! ::)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 29, 2022, 09:38:22 PM
It was you who mentioned Johnstone being at a premier club! I just gave you my opinion. Not obsessed with Johnstone at all. Not like your obsession with Livermore now that's narcissism!! ::)

You are still following Johnstone even now.

I have a vested interest in Livermore, he's playing at the club I support.

You are one of those who hammered Johnstone relentlessly.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 29, 2022, 09:52:35 PM
Don't Follow The Herd, I sure don't mate, with a lot of posters on my back for having the gall to criticise Livermore so frequently. 

The trouble with you is you don't attack others for unjust criticisms of other players, so why is this?

I'm not attacking you at all, If I were then I'm sure the Mods would either edit or delete my posts. I'm trying to have a laugh with you and I'm quietly confident that's apparent to anyone reading this thread outside of your head. Incredible. Have you a discernible sense of humour, or even a trace of one? Chap, chill your beans  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 29, 2022, 09:55:33 PM
Wrong.  If you actually read my posts I praised Livermore highly for the opening 7 or 8 games last season but after that he was dross.

I've witnessed people hammer Johnstone match after match good, bad or average.

And that is a player now in the Premier League!

The poster declared he was willing to use a disparaging nickname from Only Fools and Horses. I dread to think his opinion about some of the less intellectual posters on here  :o

It was a harmless play on words, quite surprised that passed someone of your vast intellectual capacity by  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on July 30, 2022, 12:05:36 AM
You are still following Johnstone even now.

I have a vested interest in Livermore, he's playing at the club I support.

You are one of those who hammered Johnstone relentlessly.
Mate i don't get you or your comments, how am i still following Johnstone? Until i read your post mentioning him i had forgotten all about him! He no longer plays for the club i have supported home and away for over 50 years so i really couldn't care less one way or another.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 30, 2022, 06:15:04 AM
It was a harmless play on words, quite surprised that passed someone of your vast intellectual capacity by  ;) .

I'll take it as a compliment. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 30, 2022, 06:19:04 AM
Mate i don't get you or your comments, how am i still following Johnstone? Until i read your post mentioning him i had forgotten all about him! He no longer plays for the club i have supported home and away for over 50 years so i really couldn't care less one way or another.

Good.  Because that's the smart thing to do.

I'm just pointing out that whilst people think I have a Livermore obsession there were plenty with a Johnstone obsession.  As they were following the herd, it was more than OK.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on July 30, 2022, 09:20:34 AM
I'll take it as a compliment.
Started ******* early ay ya? on match day an,all un Jake's poorly un ay even travelled if the trewth be nowd.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 30, 2022, 11:02:37 AM
Started ******* early ay ya? on match day an,all un Jake's poorly un ay even travelled if the trewth be nowd.

So what, I look at the big picture of the season. 

If we average 2pts per match, everyone is happy.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 30, 2022, 11:22:05 AM
Is it safe to come back now?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 30, 2022, 01:03:59 PM
Is it safe to come back now?

Absolutely and I'm up for a house swap if you are. Always fancied a place on the Costa Blanca. We have the waters of Sutton Park to one side of us, the beauty of Brookvale Park on the other and the wonders of Witton Lakes 'between the two.

More than enough water to splash about in and keep you cool of a warm summer's eve'. And if you're feeling homesick there's a vast number of low cost alcohol outlets serving cut price San Miguel and Estrella to slake your thirst. There's also a lot 'spice' and other mind altering substances at reasonable prices should that be your thing.

Anyway, enticing though I know this sounds what are your plans for tonight's game? I'm self isolating and don't have Sky or an IPTV thingy. Fortunately my lad has a NowTV subscription and I've got a match day pass and a fridge full of Staropramen.

COYB  8) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on July 30, 2022, 01:43:53 PM
Definitely needs to be a bit more of agree to disagree on this thread. I think Livermore is garbage and tend to agree with Gregmt view of his ability but no big deal if others have a more nuanced take....be interesting to see how Molumby gets on today as I wasn't impressed with him last season but he is young and had a full pre-season with us now, so room for him to grow. Big season for Mowatt as well as he started last year on fire and then post injury was never the same.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 30, 2022, 04:29:30 PM
Absolutely and I'm up for a house swap if you are. Always fancied a place on the Costa Blanca. We have the waters of Sutton Park to one side of us, the beauty of Brookvale Park on the other and the wonders of Witton Lakes 'between the two.

More than enough water to splash about in and keep you cool of a warm summer's eve'. And if you're feeling homesick there's a vast number of low cost alcohol outlets serving cut price San Miguel and Estrella to slake your thirst. There's also a lot 'spice' and other mind altering substances at reasonable prices should that be your thing.

Anyway, enticing though I know this sounds what are your plans for tonight's game? I'm self isolating and don't have Sky or an IPTV thingy. Fortunately my lad has a NowTV subscription and I've got a match day pass and a fridge full of Staropramen.

COYB  8) .
That’s a very generous offer Dan. Tempted as I am, I think I’ll stick with our heatwave. Just necking a beer before a quick shower, and heading to my non-air conditioned bar, and slating my thirst on Estrella Damm. Looking forward to the game. I reserved a back room screen for myself. The elitist fans can have the big screen. No doubt I’ll be looking forward to returning to my air conditioned apartment later. It’s set at 27c. Get well soon.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on July 30, 2022, 05:08:31 PM
I'm disappointed Costa. Never mind as I hope you enjoy your cold beers as much as I hope to enjoy mine. As for Jake I really hope he's recovered from whatever was ailing him and he can help his teammates to victory rather than lunging for a ball that's not really his to make when he's knackered leaving us down to ten men. All of the very best today Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 30, 2022, 06:20:15 PM
Anybody want to come forward in Livermore's defence?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on July 30, 2022, 06:23:22 PM
Anybody want to come forward in Livermore's defence?
Yes great tackle to stop a second goal............................keep up
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Aztech on July 30, 2022, 06:26:48 PM
Anybody want to come forward in Livermore's defence?

Why on earth would you single out Livermore after that first half performance. The entire team were abysmal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 30, 2022, 06:28:25 PM
Yes great tackle to stop a second goal............................keep up

You are easily pleased
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 30, 2022, 06:29:32 PM
Why on earth would you single out Livermore after that first half performance. The entire team were abysmal.

Because the entire midfield structure is utter rubbish that's why.  If we have to have Livermore don't play Molumby.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: kris_boing on July 30, 2022, 06:31:15 PM
Out of the two it's Molumby who shouldn't be in this team. I genuinely don't know why we've signed him permanently.

Saying that Yokuslu and Mowatt should be our midfield two.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 30, 2022, 07:00:53 PM
Moloumby and Livermore are the 2 worst CMs we have IMO. For Bruce to start them, just wow.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 30, 2022, 07:29:23 PM
Anybody want to come forward in Livermore's defence?

Its getting boring now.

He started, he did okay, no better, now worse than most of the others
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 30, 2022, 07:30:34 PM
JL was not great today but far from awful. MOTM is Furlong for Boro and Phillips not far behind for being toss
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Blowee on July 30, 2022, 07:32:08 PM
JL was not great today but far from awful. MOTM is Furlong for Boro and Phillips not far behind for being toss
I actually thought the defensive side of his game was ok today but his distribution was woeful.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on July 30, 2022, 07:33:26 PM
Thought he was decent today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 30, 2022, 07:33:35 PM
I actually thought the defensive side of his game was ok today but his distribution was woeful.

Thats what i mean, he was ok overall. He's better off the ball than on it and i will leave it there  :D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on July 30, 2022, 07:39:27 PM
Him and Phillips should be locked up for thieving a living awful per usual these two.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on July 30, 2022, 07:50:13 PM
Absolute joke of a performance today . If he wasn’t fit he should have said so and not played so that’s no excuse. His control and passing for a professional footballer was atrocious. How on earth Steve Bruce can even think about him being in the 18 is beyond me .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 30, 2022, 07:58:45 PM
Its getting boring now.

He started, he did okay, no better, now worse than most of the others

You think that 1st half rubbish was good enough, jeez
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on July 30, 2022, 08:03:40 PM
Its getting boring now.



Getting?

Talk about obsessed!!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Aztech on July 30, 2022, 08:13:15 PM
You think that 1st half rubbish was good enough, jeez

Awful team performance and you pick out Livermore!

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on July 30, 2022, 08:15:58 PM
You think that 1st half rubbish was good enough, jeez

Didn't realise I had commented on anything in the first half at all but great attempt at twisting words.

What I will mention was the great challenge Livermore made on Watmore though.

As I "did" say Livermore was no better, no worse than most of the others.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: brummyroader on July 30, 2022, 08:34:33 PM
I know this a forum and we all can have strange views at times  ;D

But grown men having a vendetta on a footballer is rather baffling to say the least  :o
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: costa blanca baggie on July 30, 2022, 08:41:59 PM
I'm disappointed Costa. Never mind as I hope you enjoy your cold beers as much as I hope to enjoy mine. As for Jake I really hope he's recovered from whatever was ailing him and he can help his teammates to victory rather than lunging for a ball that's not really his to make when he's knackered leaving us down to ten men. All of the very best today Jake.
I think you’re mixing me up with someone else. I don’t give a toss about Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boingboing1989 on July 30, 2022, 08:54:21 PM
Not even the worst player on the pitch today, 2 (3 if you count Dike) new signings on the pitch and Livermore still the only player thread with comments on it  :-X
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on July 30, 2022, 10:23:11 PM
A midfield of Molumby and Livermore is completely unacceptable if we have aspirations of the top 2.

Why is Bruce showing fear when going to Middlesbrough?

Without the quality of the new signings we lose.

How can anyone vouch for playing Livermore when Yokuslu is fit?

They bullied us 1st half, we were slow and lethargic.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: cads_ap_albion on July 30, 2022, 11:10:39 PM
Livermore was off the pace first 30 minutes but won vital tackles after that. Distribution was a bit mixed.

Yokuslu will surely replace him in the next few weeks.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on July 30, 2022, 11:24:44 PM
I just hope Yokuslu replaces him sooner rather than later because I don’t think I can stand watching another performance like the one he produced today .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tex on July 31, 2022, 12:27:14 AM
Bruce is going to pick him as long as he is fit
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on July 31, 2022, 02:30:36 AM
I just hope Yokuslu replaces him sooner rather than later because I don’t think I can stand watching another performance like the one he produced today .

To be fair to him he's been ill all week. If you want to criticise his other performances I think that's fine as an opinion but it's extremely harsh to criticise him after he's got off his sick bed. I would ask questions of the manager for picking Jake. Personally, I don't agree with Bruce's decision at all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 31, 2022, 03:14:23 AM
Fully agree with Atomic. He was 5/10 but the question here is why was he picked when not fully fit?

If you can't train you ain't 100 percent fit no matter what comes after it.

Eyes on Bruce but does he realise it and does Gourlay care?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on July 31, 2022, 04:00:37 AM
Fully agree with Atomic. He was 5/10 but the question here is why was he picked when not fully fit?

If you can't train you ain't 100 percent fit no matter what comes after it.

Eyes on Bruce but does he realise it and does Gourlay care?
TBF I would rather Livermore over Mowatt as a 6. No way Mowatt makes those two challenges that looked like scoring chances for Boro.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 31, 2022, 05:00:56 AM
TBF I would rather Livermore over Mowatt as a 6. No way Mowatt makes those two challenges that looked like scoring chances for Boro.

Livermore made a great challenge..not denying it. He's better off the ball than on it..I'm saying we don't need 2 dcms but I accept SB will likely.go that way. We ain't playing Man City, we are in the EFL is more what I'm getting at.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggie79 on August 02, 2022, 01:43:51 PM
I am not going to jump on the Jake is poor bandwagon as I actually rate him but lets all be straight about it he will start every game no matter what team SB picks. If Okay does start it will be alongside Jake and not instead of.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on August 05, 2022, 10:58:16 PM
Tedious argument now.

Some like him, some don’t.

You see what you see and others see what they see.

Personally, I like Jake. Think he brings a lot to the team and squad.

He has his moments obviously, but overall I’ve got a lot of time for Jake.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on August 05, 2022, 11:05:50 PM
No issue as such with Livermore but now is the time for fading out , handing a new contract would be a sin .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on August 06, 2022, 11:27:01 AM
Here far too long for what he now contributes on the pitch in my opinion.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: timdon on August 06, 2022, 11:52:21 AM
Tedious argument now.

Some like him, some don’t.

You see what you see and others see what they see.

Personally, I like Jake. Think he brings a lot to the team and squad.

He has his moments obviously, but overall I’ve got a lot of time for Jake.
Blimey, no-one had even posted on this thread for over 3 days let alone argued. Now you've stirred it all up again  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: NJS on August 06, 2022, 12:52:28 PM
Should we rename this thread "He who should not be named"?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 06, 2022, 12:55:34 PM
Blimey, no-one had even posted on this thread for over 3 days let alone argued. Now you've stirred it all up again  ;D ;D

Tom woke up and chose violence  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 09, 2022, 02:22:16 PM
Good performance last night Jake , well done mate. Not a kind word from most of your critics though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: staticboy on August 09, 2022, 02:28:51 PM
Last night was certainly one of his better performances but unfortunately, 'his' better performances are still not strong enough for the team.  It's a shame because if we had replaced JL a few years ago and still had him as a back up. I think a lot more fans would be OK accept that.

Just my view anyway.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 09, 2022, 02:36:41 PM
An able cog in an impressive all round team performance. We weren't exactly under the cosh prior to Yokuslu's welcome introduction to proceedings.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 09, 2022, 05:13:16 PM
You can tell he wasn't too bad last night due to the lack of posts about him.

Only fault I had was I though he along with O'Shea I think it was could have closed Sarr down before he had chance to turn and see Button off his line.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on August 09, 2022, 11:13:24 PM
He was fine last night - its why the thread has been dead quiet.

Guaranteed had he made a mistake which lead to a goal he’d have been hung, drawn and quartered.

Is he good enough? Probably not. Does he warrant the abuse he re receives? Definitely not

The only depressing note to last night was listening to some **** abuse him in the Smethwick for the best part of an hour.

Get a grip.

If anyone could walk out the ground last night and moan then I really do pity those sad folk.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 10, 2022, 08:33:56 AM
In fairness, his aimless punt up the pitch to concede possession and then getting nowhere near Sarr as the ball went forward to him is what lead to their goal so you could call him culpable alongside Button. With any goal, there is always something someone in the defending side could have done better.

The only issue for me now is which way Bruce goes with Yokuslu fit. Livermore must now be a very bit part player. If he makes more than ten starts this season I will be disappointed.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on August 10, 2022, 08:37:07 AM
Hard to tell on a dodgy stream, but he looks like he's lost a bit of weight to me?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on August 10, 2022, 08:39:36 AM
Livermores role is the one OY does and OY does it better i'm sure most of us agree on that. Playing JL with OY is far too defensive.

Molumby has the legs to help OY and Swift. JL is 33 soon, his time is naturally up.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 10, 2022, 08:49:31 AM
Livermores role is the one OY does and OY does it better i'm sure most of us agree on that. Playing JL with OY is far too defensive.

Molumby has the legs to help OY and Swift. JL is 33 soon, his time is naturally up.

Agree that playing both of them is far too defensive, and that Yokuslu is the better player.
 I think with the substitution on Monday night Bruce is showing that he sees Yokuslu as the replacement for Livermore. Yokuslu and Molumby looks a more progressive midfield two.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on August 10, 2022, 09:15:13 AM
Agree that playing both of them is far too defensive, and that Yokuslu is the better player.
 I think with the substitution on Monday night Bruce is showing that he sees Yokuslu as the replacement for Livermore. Yokuslu and Molumby looks a more progressive midfield two.


Yeah, it was like a passing of the torch moment for me and JL knew it IMO.  JL can still play a part as a sub, cover injuries,suspensions and in cup games etc but if we want to go up it has to be OY and not JL starting where possible.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 10, 2022, 12:43:19 PM
In fairness, his aimless punt up the pitch to concede possession and then getting nowhere near Sarr as the ball went forward to him is what lead to their goal so you could call him culpable alongside Button. With any goal, there is always something someone in the defending side could have done better.

The only issue for me now is which way Bruce goes with Yokuslu fit. Livermore must now be a very bit part player. If he makes more than ten starts this season I will be disappointed.

It looked to me like he was aiming for Townsend, rather than an aimless punt.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 10, 2022, 01:07:59 PM
It looked to me like he was aiming for Townsend, rather than an aimless punt.

I'd be very worried if he was aiming for Townsend as he was nowhere near the area that the fruits of your labour* (:P) kicked it to.

*as yet unconfirmed.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 10, 2022, 01:10:05 PM
https://twitter.com/Paul_Parr_1989/status/1556720937071943681

Probably the best footage for Jake's involvement in the goal.

Personally, would say that he just kicks it up in the air in the general vicinity of Wallace
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBASweden on August 10, 2022, 01:41:36 PM
I think if we play Okay, Molumby, Swift, Grady and Wallace we have the best midfield in the league by far. Theres no place for JL currently imo.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on August 10, 2022, 01:44:37 PM
I think if we play Okay, Molumby, Swift, Grady and Wallace we have the best midfield in the league by far. Theres no place for JL currently imo.

I'd agree with that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 10, 2022, 02:10:13 PM
https://twitter.com/Paul_Parr_1989/status/1556720937071943681

Probably the best footage for Jake's involvement in the goal.

Personally, would say that he just kicks it up in the air in the general vicinity of Wallace

yes, sorry you are right it is towards Wallace not Townsend.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 10, 2022, 02:11:59 PM
https://twitter.com/Paul_Parr_1989/status/1556720937071943681

Probably the best footage for Jake's involvement in the goal.

Personally, would say that he just kicks it up in the air in the general vicinity of Wallace

He's trying to lift the ball over the top to Wallace for sure.

Another part of that goal was just how good Sarr's first touch was.  Kills it dead and takes it away from the natural place for the ball to go.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: GREGMT on August 14, 2022, 09:08:11 PM
A slow 32 year old playing in 32C heat. 

Thanks for the shift you put in my old mate.    8)

Just the 43 league starts to go........
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 14, 2022, 09:40:04 PM
I think if we play Okay, Molumby, Swift, Grady and Wallace we have the best midfield in the league by far. Theres no place for JL currently imo.
Definitely , but over the course of a season having Livermore and others that can step in will be crucial, anybody can see that he probably shouldn’t be first choice, not everybody seems to understand the need to have back ups ready and willing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on August 15, 2022, 09:38:24 AM
Jake is well past his sell by date and shouldn’t be a starter with the way Okay is preforming and if Bruce gets his way and brings in another Midfielder can’t see a reason why he even makes the bench.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 15, 2022, 09:44:30 AM
Jake is well past his sell by date and shouldn’t be a starter with the way Okay is preforming and if Bruce gets his way and brings in another Midfielder can’t see a reason why he even makes the bench.

Yokuslu should definitely be starting and no doubt will in the next couple of games.
If we do bring in another midfielder I imagine it will be a more attacking player to provide cover/competition for Swift rather than a more defensive player, so Livermore will be needed to provide cover if/when Yokuslu is injured or suspended.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on August 15, 2022, 10:26:43 AM
Yokuslu should definitely be starting and no doubt will in the next couple of games.
If we do bring in another midfielder I imagine it will be a more attacking player to provide cover/competition for Swift rather than a more defensive player, so Livermore will be needed to provide cover if/when Yokuslu is injured or suspended.
Mulumby can cover Okay don’t need three players on match day for one position.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on August 15, 2022, 08:38:39 PM
Just seen our goal back and a slow-mo of Livermore. Was lucky not to get out goal ruled out and possibly get sent off. Brings his arm down on a Blackburn player face totally unnecessarily.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Droitwich Baggie on August 15, 2022, 09:36:00 PM
Legs gone and brain gone.
Let's hope that Bruce says the same.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 16, 2022, 08:48:21 AM
Mulumby can cover Okay don’t need three players on match day for one position.

so who's going to play next to Yokuslu if Molumby is on the bench and Livermore is not needed?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 16, 2022, 08:52:00 AM
Just seen our goal back and a slow-mo of Livermore. Was lucky not to get out goal ruled out and possibly get sent off. Brings his arm down on a Blackburn player face totally unnecessarily.

I haven't had the benefit of watching it in slow motion but it looked like the player just flung himself down to me. Still, if he's done what you've suggested I'm extremely confident the EFL will have no hesitation giving him a three game ban given the ref took no action at the time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on August 16, 2022, 09:39:32 AM
Just seen our goal back and a slow-mo of Livermore. Was lucky not to get out goal ruled out and possibly get sent off. Brings his arm down on a Blackburn player face totally unnecessarily.

Looks to me like Livermore just uses his arm to shrug off the Blackburn player, who then goes down theatrically. Slow motion always makes things look worse.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 16, 2022, 09:49:20 AM
Looks to me like Livermore just uses his arm to shrug off the Blackburn player, who then goes down theatrically. Slow motion always makes things look worse.

Are you suggesting this was a 'nothing to see here' moment in the game which most likely wouldn't have been mentioned if this wasn't the Jake Livermore thread? If you are I'm confident someone's going be along shortly to put you right on that one  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBASweden on August 18, 2022, 10:33:24 AM
After watching last nights game i wonder how our midfield would look if we kept Sawyers and got rid of Livermore instead
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on August 18, 2022, 10:37:10 AM
I remember Sawyers and Livermore together in midfield and it certainly did nothing for me .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 18, 2022, 12:24:32 PM
He's a player coming to the end, I guess he knows it as well. Last night we take him off as he's on a booking, bloke who replaces him gets booked after what 5 minutes of coming on? and the midfield looked worse after the change.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on August 18, 2022, 01:00:16 PM
He's a player coming to the end, I guess he knows it as well. Last night we take him off as he's on a booking, bloke who replaces him gets booked after what 5 minutes of coming on? and the midfield looked worse after the change.

A very significant and worrying point made here. I was at the game but checked in on here at half time. Almost every poster was screaming for JL to be removed and he was. I am 100% of the opinion that the introduction of his replacement made matters worse. New blood needed in my view but highly unlikely to happen presently.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 18, 2022, 01:29:13 PM
A very significant and worrying point made here. I was at the game but checked in on here at half time. Almost every poster was screaming for JL to be removed and he was. I am 100% of the opinion that the introduction of his replacement made matters worse. New blood needed in my view but highly unlikely to happen presently.

Inconvenient truths.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on August 18, 2022, 01:33:57 PM
Don’t need two defensive midfielders Okay more than capable of covering defence, our problems lie in final third where we are lacking bodies.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on August 18, 2022, 01:39:02 PM
A very significant and worrying point made here. I was at the game but checked in on here at half time. Almost every poster was screaming for JL to be removed and he was. I am 100% of the opinion that the introduction of his replacement made matters worse. New blood needed in my view but highly unlikely to happen presently.

I wasn't there but following the game it seemed this was the case yeah.

It isn't a shock though, Molumby was very hit and miss last season and I'm not convinced he will ever be anything more than a championship journey man.

Pre season my hope was Mowatt and Yokuslu might have given us better (if not perfect) balance in midfield and would have been my midfield 2. After Mowatt was moved on to free up his reported £35k a week wages, we have now been left with a gap in our midfield for a ball player to play behind the front 3/4. I don't think we will replace Mowatt, but we really need to. Gilmour would be the dream but I reckon there will be a number of potential options in Premier league youth academies (and even more abroad - not that our scouts have passports).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on August 18, 2022, 01:39:27 PM
Don’t need two defensive midfielders Okay more than capable of covering defence, our problems lie in final third where we are lacking bodies.

In the prem we do but I don't think we do in the championship.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 18, 2022, 01:54:15 PM
Don’t need two defensive midfielders Okay more than capable of covering defence, our problems lie in final third where we are lacking bodies.

I'd rather have Okay playing forward more than Molumby though.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: robnewbold on August 18, 2022, 02:19:46 PM
Legs gone, frustration overcomes him and he gets yellow carded and then potentially  red-carded.  A massive liability every time he puts on the shirt. Needs to be put out to pasture for his and our sake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 18, 2022, 02:23:07 PM
Where's this "he nearly got red carded" from?  He had a yellow card and then someone went in on his ankle and he appealed to the ref.  The ref booked the opposition player for it.  Getting someone from the other side booked is not the same as "nearly got a red card".
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 18, 2022, 02:31:58 PM
Legs gone, frustration overcomes him and he gets yellow carded and then potentially  red-carded.  A massive liability every time he puts on the shirt. Needs to be put out to pasture for his and our sake.

Fortunately his youthful more mobile replacement didn't get a yellow card straight away thus reducing his impact as he sought to avoid a red card himself.......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 18, 2022, 02:49:20 PM
He's a player coming to the end, I guess he knows it as well. Last night we take him off as he's on a booking, bloke who replaces him gets booked after what 5 minutes of coming on? and the midfield looked worse after the change.
But how would you feel if you were molumby?
If anything he tries too hard because he knows his chances of dislodging Livermore are so remote.
Molumby has been exceptional this season…yet the minute Yokuslu is believed to be match fit it’s him that makes way…I’d be bloody furious.
And I thought he was good last night.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on August 18, 2022, 05:52:20 PM
But how would you feel if you were molumby?
If anything he tries too hard because he knows his chances of dislodging Livermore are so remote.
Molumby has been exceptional this season…yet the minute Yokuslu is believed to be match fit it’s him that makes way…I’d be bloody furious.
And I thought he was good last night.

Not going to lie, not the biggest fan of Molumby, he runs around a lot, gets booked and maybe once in a while sticks a decent pass through so a younger version of Livermore.

Livermore will play when available, Bruce is that kind of manager. Experience is the number one requirement for him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on August 18, 2022, 05:54:49 PM
Not going to lie, not the biggest fan of Molumby, he runs around a lot, gets booked and maybe once in a while sticks a decent pass through so a younger version of Livermore.

Livermore will play when available, Bruce is that kind of manager. Experience is the number one requirement for him.


I agree, JM and JL are a lot alike. Hot headed, not shy of getting booked, tries hard but is scrappy/limited.

Now Mowatts gone though and TGH blocked out it's going to be one of them with OY every game
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on August 20, 2022, 05:50:38 PM
Jake made a milestone 200th appearance for the club today.

Congratulations Jake and thank you for your service
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on August 20, 2022, 10:51:40 PM
I think I’m correct in saying that JL has only failed to start 2 matches this season ….. and not surprisingly those are the only 2 matches that we have won !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 20, 2022, 11:02:37 PM
Jake made a milestone 200th appearance for the club today.

Congratulations Jake and thank you for your service

200 too many sadly. Thankfully his last season with us and hopefully not many more starts during the course of it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on August 20, 2022, 11:24:32 PM
200 too many sadly. Thankfully his last season with us and hopefully not many more starts during the course of it.

Lack of respect
Might not be everyone's cup of tea but a great servant
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 20, 2022, 11:45:37 PM
Lack of respect
Might not be everyone's cup of tea but a great servant

A great servant of what exactly? Playing a major part in our significant decline since his arrival because his quality has been poor? No lack of respect, he has been thanked significantly by us with wages between £20k and £60k per week for the duration of his time here.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on August 21, 2022, 02:21:56 AM
200 too many sadly. Thankfully his last season with us and hopefully not many more starts during the course of it.

Leave it out mate. Congratulate him on playing 200 games for OUR club a lot of players don’t get near this, England selection in those games also, he has been worthy of the shirt.

Or if you don’t agree just leave it there’s no need to shed negative light on a topic of playing 200 games for West Bromwich Albion.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on August 21, 2022, 09:16:55 AM
Leave it out mate. Congratulate him on playing 200 games for OUR club a lot of players don’t get near this, England selection in those games also, he has been worthy of the shirt.

Or if you don’t agree just leave it there’s no need to shed negative light on a topic of playing 200 games for West Bromwich Albion.

Totally agree. Well done Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 21, 2022, 10:58:02 AM
200 too many sadly. Thankfully his last season with us and hopefully not many more starts during the course of it.
Silly post
He may have slowed down and shouldn’t probably be at 200…but he’s had good games and some vital contributions.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on August 21, 2022, 11:46:57 AM
Should have been moved on after relegation and now should only have a limited role in first team and  Dara should be appointed first team captain.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBaggieMan on August 21, 2022, 04:53:36 PM
Past it, legs gone - time for a taxi.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on August 21, 2022, 05:52:32 PM
Past it, legs gone - time for a taxi.

Ironic  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 21, 2022, 10:20:11 PM
Silly post
He may have slowed down and shouldn’t probably be at 200…but he’s had good games and some vital contributions.

Genuinely struggling to think of any vital contributions from him in his time here. For someone to be considered a great servant for me, it would be someone who has enhanced the club in his time with us, no matter how short that period may be, ranging from the likes of a Bomber Brown whose time with us speaks for itself, to a Bob Taylor whose goals were so pivotal for us, a Chris Brunt who saw great success with us that he played a major part in. Livermore, for my mind, would not be deemed to be a great servant for the club, more a drain on the clubs finances, someone who has been handsomely rewarded by people in a position of power with us without merit.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 21, 2022, 10:28:14 PM
Genuinely struggling to think of any vital contributions from him in his time here. For someone to be considered a great servant for me, it would be someone who has enhanced the club in his time with us, no matter how short that period may be, ranging from the likes of a Bomber Brown whose time with us speaks for itself, to a Bob Taylor whose goals were so pivotal for us, a Chris Brunt who saw great success with us that he played a major part in. Livermore, for my mind, would not be deemed to be a great servant for the club, more a drain on the clubs finances, someone who has been handsomely rewarded by people in a position of power with us without merit.
Good, because despite you mentioning it twice, I never once mentioned him being a great servant.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 21, 2022, 10:30:47 PM
Good, because despite you mentioning it twice, I never once mentioned him being a great servant.

You may not have referred to him as a great servant, but your list of his vital contributions was enlightening.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: brummyroader on August 22, 2022, 01:41:45 PM
Will be a very important squad player, has his part to play but not as part of first 11.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on August 22, 2022, 06:27:04 PM
Will be a very important squad player, has his part to play but not as part of first 11.

Exactly this he needs to get odd games here and there and will be required and then hopefully he is released come end of season with our blessing
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 22, 2022, 08:57:40 PM
You may not have referred to him as a great servant, but your list of his vital contributions was enlightening.
Many vocal motivations in the changing room, training ground, on the pitch that non of us will have been privy too, speaking to the ref during important moments of the game, interceptions, charity work etc etc
Then there’s the goal away at Hull in the purple shirt…etc etc
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: richjonawba on August 22, 2022, 09:01:40 PM
Depressing to think I’ve watched him play 200 games. Hopefully not many more.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 22, 2022, 09:08:21 PM
Many vocal motivations in the changing room, training ground, on the pitch that non of us will have been privy too, speaking to the ref during important moments of the game, interceptions, charity work etc etc
Then there’s the goal away at Hull in the purple shirt…etc etc

I remember them all so well. I imagine they were extremely rousing and inspired us to go out there and avoid being relegated regularly
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: richjonawba on August 22, 2022, 09:14:52 PM
I remember them all so well. I imagine they were extremely rousing and inspired us to go out there and avoid being relegated regularly

So rousing that they led to him going out there and mauling someone getting himself a red card
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 22, 2022, 09:17:40 PM
So rousing that they led to him going out there and mauling someone getting himself a red card

But he scored against the mighty Hull whilst wearing a purple shirt…
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 22, 2022, 10:09:17 PM
But he scored against the mighty Hull whilst wearing a purple shirt…
You say it like it’s the only thing and that it doesn’t matter, goals win matches, matches equal points, every point has a financial implication.
I don’t really care if you like him or not, I’m not his representative, my point is that he’s has played well for us on occasion, quite a few managers have selected him, and whilst I think that he has stayed on too long/recently started when he shouldn’t…..he doesn’t deserve the stick he gets from some quarters .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: wbastrollers on August 22, 2022, 10:20:33 PM
But he scored against the mighty Hull whilst wearing a purple shirt…

Really!? Don’t you guy’s have anything better to do then spend all evening slagging off a player that just played 200 games for the Albion.
I just can’t believe how low we have stooped. For goodness sake show some dignity.
He hasn’t got too many games left before he calls it a day leave yourselves and Jake some some self respect.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 22, 2022, 10:24:40 PM
With GREGMT on hiatus, someone had to keep this thread alive  ;D

A bit of a nerve touched there, strollers?  :o

Jake has taken enough from the club to not need kind words at this stage, the £35k per week we paid him last season epitomising that, not his fault we gave him such a contract of course, but he clearly wasn’t keen to put the club first and drop his wage to something more reflective of his ability or to walk away with some ‘dignity’ at the end of the season when his contract was up subject to the extra year in his favour which he opted to take to keep the inflated wage coming in
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on August 22, 2022, 11:06:26 PM
With GREGMT on hiatus, someone had to keep this thread alive  ;D

A bit of a nerve touched there, strollers?  :o

Jake has taken enough from the club to not need kind words at this stage, the £35k per week we paid him last season epitomising that, not his fault we gave him such a contract of course, but he clearly wasn’t keen to put the club first and drop his wage to something more reflective of his ability or to walk away with some ‘dignity’ at the end of the season when his contract was up subject to the extra year in his favour which he opted to take to keep the inflated wage coming in

No sensible player would do that to be fair. Why would Jake? If we are stupid enough to give him the contract there is only one party to blame, and it isn’t him.

Strollers is a very sensible post, nice one.


Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on August 23, 2022, 12:38:18 PM
I'm not in the I hate Jake club, so thought that I would look at posts from his career here to validate or not his contribution,
we are at 113 pages on this thread, so i went half way ie, page 56. I have omitted the names of contributors but i will take answers on a postcard for the last one

I did not know where Jake was playing....CF CB or Mid he was everywhere! Great hard working performance.

Just saw the interview with Jake. Man the pressure release was intense from the way he was making it out.
I think sometimes we easily forget how good we were playing first half of the season.
I’m sure they’ll all grow having been through this experience and can play without a lot of the expectation this second half of the season.

I thought he metaphorically lead from the front last night

From Where Jake was Mentally to now he has been a good player. I guess he has struggled mentally not seeing his family whilst trying to give his all for us on the pitch. At the End of the day we are up he has stuck with us all this time and for that I applaud him and he should be useful for us in the Premier League.

A Captains performance from Jake, he lead the team superbly by example and was, undoubtedly, Man of the Match

Fantastic last night I thought. Hustled, pressed, won tackles.
That interview though, it looked as if he was mentally exhausted with the pressure as he repeated 'relief' over and over again.
To be honest though, relief was my overriding emotion at the final whistle.


Always been critical of him. He was fantastic tonight, his interview shown passion and a commitment to the club. For that i appreciate his contribution tonight.

I've been critical at times but superb energy and leadership this season.


Don't play this guy again - just not good enough.  He is playing in a critical position in centre midfield.  So far off the pace it's ridiculous.
Nice guy and puts in 100% yes but we need to be ruthless


"Lest we forget"
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on August 23, 2022, 12:40:46 PM
That has to be be the Bilic promotion season surely.

I don't rate him but he decent then.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on August 23, 2022, 12:48:39 PM
Geoff Hurst was a waste of space here, doesnt mean he had a bad career though.  Context is king !

from wiki
Hurst was sold to Johnny Giles's West Bromwich Albion in the summer of 1975 for a fee of £20,000.[42] He played 12 times for the Baggies at the start of the 1975–76 season, scoring twice, before deciding to leave for America.[42] Hurst later acknowledged that at the age of 34 he was too old to lead the line in the "Baggies" push for promotion out of the Second Division.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on August 23, 2022, 01:13:24 PM
Are all the comments bar the last one by Greg? ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on August 23, 2022, 01:16:53 PM
Are all the comments bar the last one by Greg? ;D

It could have come from any one of 95% of the fanbase. He's way past it and we look better without him regardless of how good he is in the dressing room.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 23, 2022, 09:44:52 PM
If we are picking random pages to take comments from, I just went to page 63 and it was fairly damning. Not sure the point you’re trying to make Albionic?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on August 24, 2022, 02:43:30 PM
If we are picking random pages to take comments from, I just went to page 63 and it was fairly damning. Not sure the point you’re trying to make Albionic?

Yes, very bizarre. I don't think Livermore is much of a debate any more, nobody seems to rate him, indisputably if out of contract he would not be able to command a similar wage elsewhere and the two games we have won this season were without him in the starting eleven. Well past his sell by date.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on August 24, 2022, 04:55:37 PM
If we are picking random pages to take comments from, I just went to page 63 and it was fairly damning. Not sure the point you’re trying to make Albionic?

The point was he hasnt always been past it and to judge his Albion career solely on the here and now is unfair and irrational, yet there are many posts doing just that !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on August 26, 2022, 08:38:40 AM
West Brom skipper Jake Livermore is fine with game time challenge

https://www.expressandstar.com/sport/football/west-bromwich-albion/2022/08/26/west-brom-skipper-jake-livermore-is-fine-with-game-time-challenge/
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on August 26, 2022, 08:42:46 AM
Typical of the man I think. Definitely past his best but a very good ambassador and club captain, a role which goes much further than being the first player out of the tunnel on match days.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on August 26, 2022, 08:44:51 AM
Over the hill footballer happy not to play but to pick up ludicrously high wage for the remaining few months of his contract.

Slow news day indeed  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on August 26, 2022, 01:31:18 PM
Typical of the man I think. Definitely past his best but a very good ambassador and club captain, a role which goes much further than being the first player out of the tunnel on match days.

Yeah, apart from failing a drugs test (which usually would get a player a minimum 2 year ban), taxi gate and several brain dead red cards he has been an ideal role model throughout his career....

John Wile is a good ambassador for the club, I don't want to see him back on the pitch mind. Talk about clutching at straws.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: phbaggies on August 26, 2022, 01:39:55 PM
Yeah, apart from failing a drugs test (which usually would get a player a minimum 2 year ban), taxi gate and several brain dead red cards he has been an ideal role model throughout his career....

John Wile is a good ambassador for the club, I don't want to see him back on the pitch mind. Talk about clutching at straws.
His drug test was way before us, it was 7 years ago, and he was going through one of the worst things you can, he lost a bloody child!

Get a grip mate, dislike him as a footballer as much as you like, but until you've been in his position, dont judge!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on August 26, 2022, 01:45:24 PM
His drug test was way before us, it was 7 years ago, and he was going through one of the worst things you can, he lost a bloody child!

Get a grip mate, dislike him as a footballer as much as you like, but until you've been in his position, dont judge!

If anything he rehabilitated and came back from adversity so he should be commended for that and I think bringing that back as an argument against him being an ambassador of the club is harsh at best.

I'm not a fan of him on the pitch but I am a fan of being fair.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on August 26, 2022, 02:31:44 PM
His drug test was way before us, it was 7 years ago, and he was going through one of the worst things you can, he lost a bloody child!

Get a grip mate, dislike him as a footballer as much as you like, but until you've been in his position, dont judge!

Absolutely spot on ph, well said.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on August 26, 2022, 02:32:25 PM
Yeah, apart from failing a drugs test (which usually would get a player a minimum 2 year ban), taxi gate and several brain dead red cards he has been an ideal role model throughout his career....

John Wile is a good ambassador for the club, I don't want to see him back on the pitch mind. Talk about clutching at straws.

I am not clutching at straws as you insultingly put it and stand by every word.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: phbaggies on August 26, 2022, 02:46:49 PM
Typical of the man I think. Definitely past his best but a very good ambassador and club captain, a role which goes much further than being the first player out of the tunnel on match days.
I have mentioned it on here before, but you go back to when we won covid promotion, everyone around him was dancing, he was crying with sheer relief that peoples jobs (staff) within the club were safe, touch of class that you don't see very often.

Yes he is a limited footballer way past his best, but the lengths people will drag themselves down to just to make a pointless argument/ vendetta against the bloke is embarrassing  ??? :-[
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on August 26, 2022, 02:57:04 PM
Shouldn’t be in starting 11 as we have better options in front of him and Dara looking a better captain as well so limited appearances hopefully.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on August 26, 2022, 03:17:11 PM
I have mentioned it on here before, but you go back to when we won covid promotion, everyone around him was dancing, he was crying with sheer relief that peoples jobs (staff) within the club were safe, touch of class that you don't see very often.

Yes he is a limited footballer way past his best, but the lengths people will drag themselves down to just to make a pointless argument/ vendetta against the bloke is embarrassing  ??? :-[
Totally agree with your 2nd paragraph
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on August 26, 2022, 09:45:30 PM
I have mentioned it on here before, but you go back to when we won covid promotion, everyone around him was dancing, he was crying with sheer relief that peoples jobs (staff) within the club were safe, touch of class that you don't see very often.

Yes he is a limited footballer way past his best, but the lengths people will drag themselves down to just to make a pointless argument/ vendetta against the bloke is embarrassing  ??? :-[

This is all an irrelevance, he is a very poor footballer, that’s what matters. So poor that posters trying to say something positive about him have reverted to commenting on his personality….that’s the best thing they have to say and those are the few who want to give him credit.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on August 26, 2022, 11:01:41 PM
Surely the key quality any of our squad should be judged on is whether they are currently good enough to play Championship football .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on August 26, 2022, 11:11:50 PM
This is all an irrelevance, he is a very poor footballer, that’s what matters. So poor that posters trying to say something positive about him have reverted to commenting on his personality….that’s the best thing they have to say and those are the few who want to give him credit.

Unlike you who had to bring up a failed drugs test and taxigate?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on August 26, 2022, 11:39:57 PM
Unlike you who had to bring up a failed drugs test and taxigate?

Yes to provide balance to those fawning over his off the field behaviour, but as all of my posts make abundantly clear my criticism with Jake is that he doesn't his job well enough on the field. He is very poor footballer, not much more to it than that and I expect he will retire next summer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on August 26, 2022, 11:41:26 PM
Surely the key quality any of our squad should be judged on is whether they are currently good enough to play Championship football .

Yes, but really the question is, can they damage the opposition in the Championship, like Swift, Wallace, Okay etc, as we are trying to get promoted, not to tread water.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on August 31, 2022, 08:22:08 AM
Did alright coming on last night.

Clearly not to blame for our poor performances as they've not improved with him out the team.  Don't think it really matters which 2 you play in the middle of the park while out tactics are for the back 4 to pass it between themselves and send it up the wing.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on August 31, 2022, 08:23:04 AM
Did alright coming on last night.

Clearly not to blame for our poor performances as they've not improved with him out the team.  Don't think it really matters which 2 you play in the middle of the park while out tactics are for the back 4 to pass it between themselves and send it up the wing.

He was actually my MoTm for trying.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on August 31, 2022, 12:05:23 PM
He was actually my MoTm for trying.

It comes to something when a player gets a MotM nomination simply for putting some effort in. This should be the base line for any player rather than a standout feature.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on August 31, 2022, 12:06:25 PM
It comes to something when a player gets a MotM nomination simply for putting some effort in. This should be the base line for any player rather than a standout feature.

Sadly for me this is where we were at last night.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on August 31, 2022, 12:21:37 PM
I'm not having any if this not trying stuff.

No, no, no, no, no and 37 more times No!

If you don't try you get walloped. These guys are trying  .... some may say very ...... but they are.

We didn't play THAT badly. We were the dominant team possession wise, we were just flat, looked a bit leggy and created zilch.

It's frustrating, I get that .. but perspective ?!?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on August 31, 2022, 12:25:18 PM
I'm not having any if this not trying stuff.

No, no, no, no, no and 37 more times No!

If you don't try you get walloped. These guys are trying  .... some may say very ...... but they are.

We didn't play THAT badly. We were the dominant team possession wise, we were just flat, looked a bit leggy and created zilch.

It's frustrating, I get that .. but perspective ?!?



To me it looked like most people were waiting for everyone else to step up. No one wanted to grab the game by the scruff of its neck until JL came on. For me that's not trying
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on August 31, 2022, 02:38:27 PM


To me it looked like most people were waiting for everyone else to step up. No one wanted to grab the game by the scruff of its neck until JL came on. For me that's not trying

Sorry Gazberg, nonsense to accuse the players of not trying. Just so happens that Wigan were also trying, to kick seven bells out of us. Last nights result was nothing to do with effort. The players want to win games more than anyone. Would agree Jake did okay last night - as he had fresh legs when the rest were knackered.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on August 31, 2022, 02:40:10 PM
Sorry Gazberg, nonsense to accuse the players of not trying. Just so happens that Wigan were also trying, to kick seven bells out of us. Last nights result was nothing to do with effort. The players want to win games more than anyone.

Just opinions bud, i stated why i considered them as not trying for me. If you want to win then you have to force it for me.

We knew Wigan were going to be physical so have to brace ourselves for it
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on August 31, 2022, 06:40:19 PM
Just opinions bud, i stated why i considered them as not trying for me. If you want to win then you have to force it for me.

We knew Wigan were going to be physical so have to brace ourselves for it
But even when braced…it still bloody hurts ?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on August 31, 2022, 06:44:48 PM
But even when braced…it still bloody hurts ?


It's a physical game although these days not as much as it used to be
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 16, 2022, 10:54:57 AM
How unusual , no one mentioned the fact that when Captain Fantastico entered the fray on Wednesday our play did improve somewhat.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on September 16, 2022, 10:56:10 AM
How unusual , no one mentioned the fact that when Captain Fantastico entered the fray on Wednesday our play did improve somewhat.

It hasactually been mentioned more than once.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 16, 2022, 11:16:19 AM
Extend his contract now. His apprentice JM is starting to look the part too. In any case, in the direction we are presently heading we will definately need Jake. 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on September 16, 2022, 11:23:27 AM
I did suggest this thread wasn't going to be as quiet as some thought it would  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on September 16, 2022, 03:09:40 PM
How unusual , no one mentioned the fact that when Captain Fantastico entered the fray on Wednesday our play did improve somewhat.

I would expect him to start at Norwich.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on September 16, 2022, 03:45:17 PM
Goes to show he wasn't the devil and the fault behind all of our poor performances.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on September 16, 2022, 03:55:25 PM
Goes to show he wasn't the devil and the fault behind all of our poor performances.

He's never been that bad - especially in the Championship. I think more telling is the call for a 33 year old Jake Livermore, it shows how poor we are at the moment. Usually he's around a 6/10 which shows what's going on if he's called upon.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on September 16, 2022, 04:03:27 PM
He's never been that bad - especially in the Championship. I think more telling is the call for a 33 year old Jake Livermore, it shows how poor we are at the moment. Usually he's around a 6/10 which shows what's going on if he's called upon.

Yeah, I'd agree with that.  Just that we've replaced him with Okay this seeason, and we've added Swift and Wallace, and still the results aren't any better.

Just can't see them improving while we play that defence and insisting on using Grant like he's Niall Quinn at his peak.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on September 16, 2022, 04:19:33 PM
Goes to show he wasn't the devil and the fault behind all of our poor performances.

Where's Greg when you need him?  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: timdon on September 16, 2022, 04:29:42 PM
Extend his contract now. His apprentice JM is starting to look the part too. In any case, in the direction we are presently heading we will definately need Jake.
Please no and no again. This would be a mistake of Phillipsion proportions.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 16, 2022, 05:54:34 PM
Please no and no again. This would be a mistake of Phillipsion proportions.
Often known as "tongue in cheek"
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: timdon on September 16, 2022, 07:22:25 PM
Often known as "tongue in cheek"
Phew  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on September 16, 2022, 11:32:09 PM
If JL is the answer to any of our current problems then we are in a more dire state than even I realised !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on September 17, 2022, 06:08:35 PM
Well played today skip, and 90 mins no probs. Robbed of a win
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on September 17, 2022, 06:10:11 PM
He played well today. A bit like the whole team, solid if unspectacular.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on September 17, 2022, 06:13:04 PM
I thought he was very good today along with Townsend
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on September 17, 2022, 06:14:57 PM
New contract for Xmas ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on September 17, 2022, 06:42:16 PM
Well played today skip, and 90 mins no probs. Robbed of a win

He did play well and their goal was extremely lucky or else he would be celebrating a win. Credit where it’s due.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on September 17, 2022, 08:17:12 PM
Yeah, I thought Livermore was decent today, the game plan of sitting in deep and disrupting helped him. When we need to take the game to the opposition he is more of a hinderance.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 15, 2022, 09:06:48 PM
Well played Skip, good contribution. Reading's only period of pressure when he left the field. Critics please note, Jake has a part to play for the rest of this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 15, 2022, 09:08:07 PM
Well played Skip, good contribution. Reading's only period of pressure when he left the field. Critics please note, Jake has a part to play for the rest of this season.

Hi Brian. Just back from game and I agree totally with you. Played well, further up the pitch and influential.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie-boy-ethan on October 15, 2022, 09:28:11 PM
Worth noting how he talked to others when he got subbed as well. I see people saying there's no leaders in the squad, but make no mistake regardless of how you rate him as a footballer, he is clearly a respected leader in the dressing room.

How many times do you see a sub trudge off and sulk? Livermore was straight over to O'Shea with the armband, geeing him up and encouraging the team as he left. Gets a hard time but some credit where its due, I think he's found form and is doing what he can to encourage those around him to turn things around. Don't think anyone can say he hides when he plays
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on October 16, 2022, 01:08:46 AM
Worth noting how he talked to others when he got subbed as well. I see people saying there's no leaders in the squad, but make no mistake regardless of how you rate him as a footballer, he is clearly a respected leader in the dressing room.

How many times do you see a sub trudge off and sulk? Livermore was straight over to O'Shea with the armband, geeing him up and encouraging the team as he left. Gets a hard time but some credit where its due, I think he's found form and is doing what he can to encourage those around him to turn things around. Don't think anyone can say he hides when he plays

Sensible post this,

Wholeheartedly agree.

Id hold fire on a new contract, but he has a part to play on and off the pitch this season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 16, 2022, 03:43:39 AM
Worth noting how he talked to others when he got subbed as well. I see people saying there's no leaders in the squad, but make no mistake regardless of how you rate him as a footballer, he is clearly a respected leader in the dressing room.

How many times do you see a sub trudge off and sulk? Livermore was straight over to O'Shea with the armband, geeing him up and encouraging the team as he left. Gets a hard time but some credit where its due, I think he's found form and is doing what he can to encourage those around him to turn things around. Don't think anyone can say he hides when he plays

You want to give Livermore brownie points for playing to the gallery, no thanks. We had five or six years of regular premier league football until we signed him and dropped Yacob. Since then the club has never looked back and not in a good way. Jake does a decent job at this pretend hardman nonsense to mask his lack of ability and poor decision making. I wasn’t keen on Allardyce but he saw straight through it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on October 16, 2022, 05:16:38 AM
You want to give Livermore brownie points for playing to the gallery, no thanks. We had five or six years of regular premier league football until we signed him and dropped Yacob. Since then the club has never looked back and not in a good way. Jake does a decent job at this pretend hardman nonsense to mask his lack of ability and poor decision making. I wasn’t keen on Allardyce but he saw straight through it.
Not the best,but currently better than Okay, and Molumby. Simples
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie-boy-ethan on October 16, 2022, 01:41:32 PM
You want to give Livermore brownie points for playing to the gallery, no thanks. We had five or six years of regular premier league football until we signed him and dropped Yacob. Since then the club has never looked back and not in a good way. Jake does a decent job at this pretend hardman nonsense to mask his lack of ability and poor decision making. I wasn’t keen on Allardyce but he saw straight through it.

Well I guess we both simply perceive his actions differently, he seems like a sincere guy to me whenever I've seen him speak. Without knowing him personally I can't say for sure and equally I don't think you can say for sure that he is "playing to the gallery".

If we're talking about the past then yeah, I wish we still had an in form Yacob in the team. But we're what, 4 or 5 years on from then now? If you disagree that he's a leader and in some good form now then fair enough, but not sure what or Allerdyce's opinion/team selections or dropping Yacob 5 years ago has to do with it.

We are where we are now, I was simply trying to give him some credit for what I see as a spell of good form and some leadership on the pitch.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Pelada on October 18, 2022, 10:25:58 PM
Not a surprise to see Jake struggle on a Saturday-Tuesday double shift as per usual.

Think he should be managed carefully to get the biggest impact from him.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 18, 2022, 10:27:47 PM
Not a surprise to see Jake struggle on a Saturday-Tuesday double shift as per usual.

Think he should be managed carefully to get the biggest impact from him.

He had a huge impact tonight, gifted Bristol City the opening goal. Which had nothing to do with fitness levels, 33 minute in and with all the time in the world to clear the ball in his own box but no awareness or composure - terrible mistake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Jeb-Dog on October 19, 2022, 08:22:34 AM
He had a huge impact tonight, gifted Bristol City the opening goal. Which had nothing to do with fitness levels, 33 minute in and with all the time in the world to clear the ball in his own box but no awareness or composure - terrible mistake.

100% this. Ran into the box like a headless chicken at 100 miles an hour and then lashed out at what was a simple clearance with no composure providing an assist to there goalscorer. He ended up off the pitch nearly in the hoardings he was that uncontrolled. If he’d ran back at a sensible speed he’d of still got to that ball. He could of even put it out for a corner. Appalling.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 19, 2022, 08:30:20 AM
He had a huge impact tonight, gifted Bristol City the opening goal. Which had nothing to do with fitness levels, 33 minute in and with all the time in the world to clear the ball in his own box but no awareness or composure - terrible mistake.

His other big impact was on the BC player in the first half, lucky not to see red for that
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: leeiswba on October 19, 2022, 08:31:53 AM
Not a surprise to see Jake struggle on a Saturday-Tuesday double shift as per usual.

Think he should be managed carefully to get the biggest impact from him.

He’s 32, there’s no excuse at that age these days not to be able to. Tonnes of players a lot older than Livermore manage it & I’m not aware of any injuries etc he has to deal with
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggies_24 on October 19, 2022, 08:45:14 AM
He’d have been sent off last night had he stayed on the pitch. He got sent off in Allardyce’s first game, sent off in Bruce’s first game as well. He was charging round like a headless chicken last night completely lost all positional sense & Bristol bypassed him easily leaving us well short in the middle. Completely inexcusable from an experienced player & your captain.

He’s been good the last few weeks as well but really let himself & the team down last night.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: smethwickw on October 19, 2022, 08:48:46 AM
A terrible footballer who makes up for his lack of ability by running around a lot. Persisting with players like him and Phillips are why we are where we are now.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on October 19, 2022, 11:58:29 AM
His other big impact was on the BC player in the first half, lucky not to see red for that

Felt the yellow was harsh from where I was stood, genuinely thought he got the ball. Open question...... does anyone have a clip of that challenge please?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 19, 2022, 12:04:54 PM
Felt the yellow was harsh from where I was stood, genuinely thought he got the ball. Open question...... does anyone have a clip of that challenge please?

I wouldn’t mind seeing it again, but from where I was sat it looked a bit brutal, happy to be corrected though. We also need to remember it was the Bobby Madley  show as well....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on October 19, 2022, 12:05:51 PM
From my vantage point, I would describe it as 'ugly'. There was certainly no malice in it, but he is just a cumbersome player so it always looks worse when he challenges.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 19, 2022, 12:07:40 PM
His other big impact was on the BC player in the first half, lucky not to see red for that

Thought he was unlucky to be booked to be honest, it was a 50/50 that was there for the taking.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 19, 2022, 12:08:04 PM
He’s 32, there’s no excuse at that age these days not to be able to. Tonnes of players a lot older than Livermore manage it & I’m not aware of any injuries etc he has to deal with

Of course he can play a game every 3 days or so but the performance levels will decrease with each game is the issue.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 19, 2022, 12:10:23 PM
Thought he was unlucky to be booked to be honest, it was a 50/50 that was there for the taking.

I guess it’s my excuse when I made a late tackle ‘ I got there as quick as I could’...
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 19, 2022, 12:13:46 PM
Lol!
I think it was the fact that he jumped into the challenge in the same way as Yacob used to, that got him a yellow, to me it was a foul but accidental and not worthy of a yellow.
 Ref was very one sided as far as cards were concerned (and a few more decisions besides).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on October 19, 2022, 12:20:18 PM
Lol!
I think it was the fact that he jumped into the challenge in the same way as Yacob used to, that got him a yellow, to me it was a foul but accidental and not worthy of a yellow.
 Ref was very one sided as far as cards were concerned (and a few more decisions besides).

My thoughts exactly, and until I see otherwise it most definitely was not worthy of a red as alluded to earlier.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on October 19, 2022, 12:35:29 PM
A lot of what he does is uncontrolled. He very often just sticks out a boot to the ball, which means it flies anywhere. Don't know how much is to do with his overall fitness.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on October 19, 2022, 12:42:57 PM
A lot of what he does is uncontrolled. He very often just sticks out a boot to the ball, which means it flies anywhere. Don't know how much is to do with his overall fitness.

His feet do not work properly, they never have, it's why he cannot pass for toffee. His complete slice for their first goal should come as no surprise, he has no control whatsoever of his feet
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on October 19, 2022, 02:24:22 PM
Given the plethora of central midfielders that we have , I’m at a loss as to how he ever gets a starting place nowadays . His performance last night summed it up .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 19, 2022, 02:28:27 PM
Given the plethora of central midfielders that we have , I’m at a loss as to how he ever gets a starting place nowadays . His performance last night summed it up .

because recently he's been better than Yokuslu and Molumby.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 19, 2022, 02:31:55 PM
My thoughts exactly, and until I see otherwise it most definitely was not worthy of a red as alluded to earlier.

It looked bad from where I was sat miles away Dan  ;)

Two folk around me immediately said 'thats a red' and I guess I got carried away in the euphoria of it all.......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 19, 2022, 02:38:31 PM
His feet do not work properly, they never have, it's why he cannot pass for toffee. His complete slice for their first goal should come as no surprise, he has no control whatsoever of his feet

watching the reply of it, Livermore is arriving into the box at pace and the ball comes across him, he makes an attempt to clear it but slices it. It's not as if he was standing still and sliced the ball.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on October 20, 2022, 12:21:09 PM
watching the reply of it, Livermore is arriving into the box at pace and the ball comes across him, he makes an attempt to clear it but slices it. It's not as if he was standing still and sliced the ball.

It was still poor technique though. On the flip side if he hadn't gone charging back he'd undoubtedly have been accused of being as lazy as Phillips was when ambling back prior to their second goal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on October 20, 2022, 12:36:07 PM
Two folk around me immediately said 'thats a red' and I guess I got carried away in the euphoria of it all.......

Is that because it was Jake Livermore and there's a miss-conception that every single tackle he makes warrants a red card?

I personally felt the foul was only given because of the position in which it occurred on the pitch and the roll around that happened following it.

I'm around ten seats away from Dan and agree with his opinion - to me it looked like two committed players going in for the ball. From what I saw at the time Livermore didn't actually go through the player and won the ball.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 20, 2022, 12:39:01 PM
Not at all Liam, took us a few seconds to confirm who it was......one thought it was Wallace. As I said we were far away. It didn’t look clever but I am happy to stand corrected. I have no issue with Jake
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 20, 2022, 12:43:09 PM
because recently he's been better than Yokuslu and Molumby.

Absolutely correct. I have to say I am disappointed by Yokuslu so far. Is it fitness? He just doesn't look right.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: LiamTheBaggie on October 20, 2022, 12:44:52 PM
Not at all Liam, took us a few seconds to confirm who it was......

I didn't mean it in an accusatory tone to you or those who sit around you, by the way :) .

A chap who was the row behind me basically said "its Livermore, its a red card" which made me wonder whether others have gotten into that mindset.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on October 20, 2022, 01:10:41 PM
I didn't mean it in an accusatory tone to you or those who sit around you, by the way :) .

A chap who was the row behind me basically said "its Livermore, its a red card" which made me wonder whether others have gotten into that mindset.

The 'Am dram' from the Bristol player didn't help.......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 20, 2022, 01:37:50 PM
The 'Am dram' from the Bristol player didn't help.......

It was an obvious yellow card but not a red. He jumped in dangerously with both feet which you can't do, even if you get the ball and the man, which he did. Ref got it spot on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on October 20, 2022, 02:27:01 PM
It was an obvious yellow card but not a red. He jumped in dangerously with both feet which you can't do, even if you get the ball and the man, which he did. Ref got it spot on.

If the ref was spot on I need to source both video and still photo footage (literally in this case) to record the occasion. He got so much else wrong and gave the impression he couldn't have spotted a piece of paper with a marker pen. If he got it right it was most likely by luck than judgement.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: AlbionFan on October 20, 2022, 05:36:44 PM
I watched the tackle during the game and the replays and I don’t think it was even a yellow card. The tackle was made with one foot, which which wasn’t heigh and I think he made contact with the ball as well.

I haven’t had the benefit of watching it again and again, so I might be in error, but I genuinely think it was no more than a robust tackle in an attempt to win the ball fairly
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 20, 2022, 08:14:37 PM
I watched the tackle during the game and the replays and I don’t think it was even a yellow card. The tackle was made with one foot, which which wasn’t heigh and I think he made contact with the ball as well.

I haven’t had the benefit of watching it again and again, so I might be in error, but I genuinely think it was no more than a robust tackle in an attempt to win the ball fairly

Livermore himself was apologetic and relieved to get a yellow, tells you all you need to know.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on October 21, 2022, 05:20:21 AM
In center of the ES it was hard for to see if it was a yellow or a red, but the guy next to me was convinced he should have got a red. Not seen a replay of it, so still cannot say for sure.

But, what I am sure about is that he, and MP, shouldn't have started the game at all as they definitely cannot play 2 games in 4 days imo.

Beale should have known that and not have been tempted to do the easy thing by picking the same team just because we finally won. It was very naive of him not to make changes and it was their seniority of the aforementioned that clouded his thinking.

It surprise me that Beale doesn't have Ashworth in his squads and I would have thought if anyone rated highly it would be him who would the most having seen him develop.

On a side note does anyone know who Beale and Alex Palmer support. I am confident it isn't us from their interviews. I have a feeling Beale is blose though, which is the lesser of 3 evils I suppose.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on October 21, 2022, 08:10:12 AM
Livermore himself was apologetic and relieved to get a yellow, tells you all you need to know.

Just because Livermore was relieved to get a yellow doesn't mean it was a red card challenge, he could have been relieved as the ref was so one sided he expected to be sent off (even though the challenge was a red card challenge).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on October 21, 2022, 09:25:11 AM
It was still poor technique though. On the flip side if he hadn't gone charging back he'd undoubtedly have been accused of being as lazy as Phillips was when ambling back prior to their second goal.
Charging about headless was his problem all night, he's OK when he sticks to his knitting  - I think he got carried away by the hype from beating Reading and wanted to do it all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on October 21, 2022, 10:06:14 AM
Charging about headless was his problem all night, he's OK when he sticks to his knitting  - I think he got carried away by the hype from beating Reading and wanted to do it all.

I don't think so, he was subbed and replaced with Molumby at half time.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on October 21, 2022, 11:09:54 AM
I don't think so, he was subbed and replaced with Molumby at half time.
Yes, but maybe that was why he was dubbed, headless and on a yellow.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on October 21, 2022, 12:31:38 PM
Yes, but maybe that was why he was dubbed, headless and on a yellow.

Well when I last saw him he most definitely had a head on his shoulders. With that in mind I don't think he needed words dubbed from the hole created by a vacated bonce. Most likely because of the yellow card and generally incompetent official then.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on October 30, 2022, 06:40:30 PM
I don't doubt his will to do well but I thought he looked miles off the pace Yesterday , I know a two in the middle doesn't suit him but even so he was chasing shadows .
Can't play in a two and can't play more than one game a week yet one of a few with character and a bit of strength .
This is just one of the puzzles CC faces.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on October 30, 2022, 06:43:17 PM
He's at the age where he's in full decline.33 in 2 weeks.

Birthday bonus contract extension might be given?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on October 30, 2022, 07:14:56 PM
I don't doubt his will to do well but I thought he looked miles off the pace Yesterday , I know a two in the middle doesn't suit him but even so he was chasing shadows .
Can't play in a two and can't play more than one game a week yet one of a few with character and a bit of strength .
This is just one of the puzzles CC faces.

I think the answer is straight-forward. You play TGH alongside either Okay or Molumby. Or you play all three in midfield if you want to change shape. In any scenario you do not play Livermore, if you do, prepare to lose.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dexy on October 30, 2022, 07:35:47 PM
I think the answer is straight-forward. You play TGH alongside either Okay or Molumby. Or you play all three in midfield if you want to change shape. In any scenario you do not play Livermore, if you do, prepare to lose.
From what we've seen this season Okay looks slow too , I think a 3 is a better idea.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on October 30, 2022, 08:13:01 PM
In a 3 with TGH and Molumby for me.  Swap him out for Okay to maintain fitness for both.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on October 30, 2022, 10:30:21 PM
He's at the age where he's in full decline.33 in 2 weeks.

Birthday bonus contract extension might be given?

Yes, he is now in decline. Doubt very much that he will get a new contract.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Topman on December 27, 2022, 01:30:04 PM
Where’s jake gone? Whilst I agree he shouldn’t be starting I was sure he’d be involved somewhere from the bench. I hope this isn’t another example of how skint we are. If he plays again he triggers another year in his deal? I’ve already heard that big ken, as bad as he is, won’t be picked anytime soon even off the bench because he triggers another payment of his transfer, someone told me, not sure it’s true mind. Thoughts?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on December 27, 2022, 01:39:09 PM
Where’s jake gone? Whilst I agree he shouldn’t be starting I was sure he’d be involved somewhere from the bench. I hope this isn’t another example of how skint we are. If he plays again he triggers another year in his deal? I’ve already heard that big ken, as bad as he is, won’t be picked anytime soon even off the bench because he triggers another payment of his transfer, someone told me, not sure it’s true mind. Thoughts?

I hope that IS the case.

The club is not in a good position financially, the last thing we want is to be in a position where extended deals are granted for high earners well past their peak.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boingboing1989 on December 27, 2022, 01:42:02 PM
I'm a livermore 'fan' but he's not needed at present, Molumby is a younger version of him and TGH still not getting enough minutes, last thing we need is Jake coming off the bench.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: overseas baggie on December 27, 2022, 02:13:06 PM
I'm a livermore 'fan' but he's not needed at present, Molumby is a younger version of him and TGH still not getting enough minutes, last thing we need is Jake coming off the bench.

Is he still on £35k/week?  If so then it’s an awful lot of money to be paying him not to play.  We could send him out on loan and clawback £10k/week.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on December 27, 2022, 02:13:16 PM
Where’s jake gone? Whilst I agree he shouldn’t be starting I was sure he’d be involved somewhere from the bench. I hope this isn’t another example of how skint we are. If he plays again he triggers another year in his deal? I’ve already heard that big ken, as bad as he is, won’t be picked anytime soon even off the bench because he triggers another payment of his transfer, someone told me, not sure it’s true mind. Thoughts?

He offers nothing and is, rightfully, nowhere near the matchday squad.

Fail to see any issues with it, personally?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on December 27, 2022, 02:15:02 PM
I'm a livermore 'fan' but he's not needed at present, Molumby is a younger version of him and TGH still not getting enough minutes, last thing we need is Jake coming off the bench.

Assuming there are no financial reasons for his exclusion I would prefer to see him from the bench instead of Molumby. It’s absolutely right that he’s not starting any games now but I still see a bit part role for JL.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Topman on December 27, 2022, 03:03:34 PM
Assuming there are no financial reasons for his exclusion I would prefer to see him from the bench instead of Molumby. It’s absolutely right that he’s not starting any games now but I still see a bit part role for JL.




That’s what worries me, his exclusion is financial
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on December 27, 2022, 03:32:17 PM
Where’s jake gone? Whilst I agree he shouldn’t be starting I was sure he’d be involved somewhere from the bench. I hope this isn’t another example of how skint we are. If he plays again he triggers another year in his deal? I’ve already heard that big ken, as bad as he is, won’t be picked anytime soon even off the bench because he triggers another payment of his transfer, someone told me, not sure it’s true mind. Thoughts?


He seems to be the lowest rated midfielder by CC which is fair enough. If we lose CM's to injuries then we will see him back in the squad.


If he's not being played due to having an appearance trigger then kudos to CC and shame on Dowling again.

I'd personally like to see him moved on in Jan with a few others who should be let go. Even if it's just loans and saves us some wages.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on December 27, 2022, 04:17:56 PM
Where’s jake gone? Whilst I agree he shouldn’t be starting I was sure he’d be involved somewhere from the bench. I hope this isn’t another example of how skint we are. If he plays again he triggers another year in his deal? I’ve already heard that big ken, as bad as he is, won’t be picked anytime soon even off the bench because he triggers another payment of his transfer, someone told me, not sure it’s true mind. Thoughts?

5 wins in 7 since he has was disappeared. Smart coach.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: zippyandbungle on December 27, 2022, 06:39:16 PM
5 wins in 7 since he has was disappeared. Smart coach.
He’s currently in a car with Steve Bruce,Alex Bruce and Fiona Bruce on the way to NORWICH
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: throstle on December 27, 2022, 07:04:31 PM
Not his fault he's getting older. Remember the good times - winner v Spurs.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on December 27, 2022, 08:55:21 PM
He’s currently in a car with Steve Bruce,Alex Bruce and Fiona Bruce on the way to NORWICH

Free transfer sheff Wednesday mate written all over it or derby count
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on December 27, 2022, 08:57:03 PM
It would be weird for him to stay here knowing he's at the end of his career, not even making the squad.

You'd think players would want to bow out playing but no one is going to offer him what we would let's be real.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on December 27, 2022, 09:04:45 PM
I think a loan to Hull may be an option.

Not a rival to us and Rosenior played with him during their better days.

Whatever happens, he needs to go, and everything should be done to avoid the activation of another year, if that is possibility.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on December 27, 2022, 09:09:16 PM
I think a loan to Hull may be an option.

Not a rival to us and Rosenior played with him during their better days.

Whatever happens, he needs to go, and everything should be done to avoid the activation of another year, if that is possibility.


I'd like to see that happen. Even if they pay just 10k of his wages that's money towards helping CC.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggiee_Boyy_Benn on December 27, 2022, 10:58:46 PM
Not his fault he's getting older. Remember the good times - winner v Spurs.

Plenty of good times, he played for England whilst here. A good player for the club, but not good enough anymore. A move this January would be welcomed.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mateinone on December 28, 2022, 12:27:39 AM
I think he must know that if he stays, it is only as an emergency backup now. Has been good for us over the run, but like all players has come to the end of the road.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on December 28, 2022, 12:07:40 PM
5 wins in 7 since he has was disappeared. Smart coach.

Not quite. Three wins in four. CC brought him on as a 90th minute sub for Yokuslu against QPR. He also made the bench for the wins against Blackpool and Stoke during that run of seven games.

If the rumours of an appearance related extension clause are correct it's to be hoped they relate to starts as opposed to being named in match day squads. You just never know.........  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on December 28, 2022, 04:30:55 PM
Not quite. Three wins in four. CC brought him on as a 90th minute sub for Yokuslu against QPR. He also made the bench for the wins against Blackpool and Stoke during that run of seven games.

If the rumours of an appearance related extension clause are correct it's to be hoped they relate to starts as opposed to being named in match day squads. You just never know.........  ;D .

I am not going to assign any involvement from a 90th minute sub appearance and two games sat in the dugout. Jake is obviously now a player on a huge championship wage / lower premier league wage who isn't good enough to offer anything in the championship. Hence I expect he will take his salary until the summer and then retire, unless he wants to play on for peanuts in league one, which I do not see. I will remember his time with us as one during which we rolled back from a lower premiership team to a championship club. A massive downgrade on Yacob; and a "parting gift" from Tony Pulis; epitomising his love for footballers who cannot trap the football and do the basics consistently. Nothing personal against Livermore, I would do the same in his position, a player who should have been binned off a long time ago.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on December 28, 2022, 04:42:45 PM
I am not going to assign any involvement from a 90th minute sub appearance and two games sat in the dugout. Jake is obviously now a player on a huge championship wage / lower premier league wage who isn't good enough to offer anything in the championship.....

Good for you. Any idea whether the appearance clause rumoured to be in his contract is a real thing and if so whether it can be triggered by playing a minute here or there or by just being selected to sit on the bench? I haven't.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on December 28, 2022, 08:45:28 PM
One of several responsible for our decline over recent seasons . Needs to go in January as I’m despairing that any of the others in that category are going anywhere soon .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan87uk on December 30, 2022, 03:20:55 PM
I feel nothing but vindication for my (often deleted from this thread) opinion of him after basically being shut out by CC since his arrival ;D

Might get the game against Chesterfield (which is about his level) but beyond that I hope we don't see him play for us again. Who knows, maybe some crazy manager out there wants to take him off us for a minimal fee in Jan.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on December 30, 2022, 03:22:50 PM
Would like to see him moved on in Jan also.

Finish your career playing, not sitting down collecting money you don't need.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on December 30, 2022, 05:06:57 PM
Would like to see him moved on in Jan also.

Finish your career playing, not sitting down collecting money you don't need.

Not his fault he’s not being picked Gaz. I am sure he would rather be playing than sitting down. Let us see what January brings.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on December 30, 2022, 05:09:35 PM
Would like to see him moved on in Jan also.

Finish your career playing, not sitting down collecting money you don't need.
You could see a weaker champ club trying to avoid relegation offering to split his wages for six months.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on December 30, 2022, 05:10:02 PM
Not his fault he’s not being picked Gaz. I am sure he would rather be playing than sitting down. Let us see what January brings.


Not saying it's his fault, i think it's the right call he is left out but he's coming to the end now.


When i played i played till i could not play anymore even if it meant dropping down a division each year until i was done and done at 37 and i did it for the love of the sport not money. I certainly wouldn't like to bow out having not been playing.

I won't cry if he is here end of year of course, he has a contract.  For him it's going to boil down too does he want to play or does he want the money.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on December 30, 2022, 05:11:04 PM
You could see a weaker champ club trying to avoid relegation offering to split his wages for six months.

Someone on this board mentioned Hull and his pal Rosenior, whether there is any truth to that or was just a suggestion i don't know but it would make sense for JL.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on January 07, 2023, 05:05:32 PM
Coward
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 07, 2023, 05:17:07 PM
Coward

That he is not!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Sted1990 on January 07, 2023, 05:19:38 PM
Coward

Context please?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on January 07, 2023, 05:36:24 PM
Never shows for the ball, misses tackles, doesn’t track runners. It’s almost like we dropped him and won 8 out of 9. Maybe the FA will give us a bye to the next round as Livermore “always gives 100%”
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 07, 2023, 05:37:53 PM
he was the only midfielder showing for the defence today.  At times he was level in the back four looking to pick the ball up.  He just didn't have any options once he got it.

Reach is far worse and Rogic was worse than Livermore today.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SirTonyM on January 07, 2023, 05:52:06 PM
Don't worry as we have a great squad and don't need reinforcements :)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on January 07, 2023, 05:55:27 PM
he was the only midfielder showing for the defence today. At times he was level in the back four looking to pick the ball up. He just didn't have any options once he got it.

Reach is far worse and Rogic was worse than Livermore today.

Just spat my coffee out that fans are still falling for that old pony trick of his. Jake loves to drop in alongside the centre backs to receive the ball deep in his own half with no opposition player around in order to show off his 5 yard sideways passing range. Net result, opposition are sat around in their block laughing at us and we are short of a midfielder who the defenders should be playing through. The guy is useless.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on January 07, 2023, 06:27:03 PM
He was awful. As was Reach. The two central midfielders were shocking first half. It was only when Molumby came on and we had someone in midfield who could move that we started to get on the ball.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: boinging_along on January 07, 2023, 06:27:42 PM
Just spat my coffee out that fans are still falling for that old pony trick of his. Jake loves to drop in alongside the centre backs to receive the ball deep in his own half with no opposition player around in order to show off his 5 yard sideways passing range. Net result, opposition are sat around in their block laughing at us and we are short of a midfielder who the defenders should be playing through. The guy is useless.

Our defenders weren't playing through anyone - that's the point! 
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on January 07, 2023, 06:29:21 PM
Just spat my coffee out that fans are still falling for that old pony trick of his. Jake loves to drop in alongside the centre backs to receive the ball deep in his own half with no opposition player around in order to show off his 5 yard sideways passing range. Net result, opposition are sat around in their block laughing at us and we are short of a midfielder who the defenders should be playing through. The guy is useless.

It’s actually unbelievable isn’t it. Bless them, they just don’t see it do they?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 07, 2023, 07:51:27 PM
It’s actually unbelievable isn’t it. Bless them, they just don’t see it do they?

You said coward. I maintain that he is not one. Didn’t play at all well but hasn’t played for almost 2 months. Whatever you think of him that’s the wrong word to use.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on January 07, 2023, 07:59:14 PM
Another one i'll be glad to see off the wage books.  Well past it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on January 07, 2023, 08:18:15 PM
Should have gone long ago . Sam realised he had no part to play , unfortunately the last 2 incumbents before CC thought otherwise .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on January 07, 2023, 09:16:40 PM
He was done by the last time we were in pl.
Legs have gone and has never really been any good. Pulis phasing yacob out for him is one of the reasons for our demise. See what type of bloke he is if he wants to sit in the stiffs collecting his money or will he take a move for 18 months to league one or bottom end of championship for less money for the love of the game
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 07, 2023, 10:11:06 PM
Should have gone long ago . Sam realised he had no part to play , unfortunately the last 2 incumbents before CC thought otherwise .

Yes cause Sam really got everything right didn’t he?😝
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: overseas baggie on January 07, 2023, 11:01:56 PM
He was done by the last time we were in pl.
Legs have gone and has never really been any good. Pulis phasing yacob out for him is one of the reasons for our demise. See what type of bloke he is if he wants to sit in the stiffs collecting his money or will he take a move for 18 months to league one or bottom end of championship for less money for the love of the game

Thankfully it’s only 6 months left, not 18.  He doesn’t have a further extension.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on January 18, 2023, 04:23:02 PM
Does anyone know whether Captain Fantastico's goal last night triggered a goals related contract extension? Just asking  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggie79 on January 18, 2023, 06:22:51 PM
I must say he is a very impressive individual, maybe he is past his best as a player but as a human with what he has gone through and the constant support of the foundation and everything he does for others around the club he should be applauded. He is also a good leader of the squad and club. Maybe sometimes its more than just football. He was very good yesterday as well.

All said I wouldnt give him another deal but he deserves credit for his contribution to this club and the whole community.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on January 18, 2023, 06:57:41 PM
Well said mate.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on January 18, 2023, 07:18:43 PM
I must say he is a very impressive individual, maybe he is past his best as a player but as a human with what he has gone through and the constant support of the foundation and everything he does for others around the club he should be applauded. He is also a good leader of the squad and club. Maybe sometimes its more than just football. He was very good yesterday as well.

All said I wouldnt give him another deal but he deserves credit for his contribution to this club and the whole community.

100 per cent agree. However, watching him last night convinced me that his time at our club is up. Was never the quickest but really has lost mobility since start of season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: DevonInStripes on January 18, 2023, 11:31:26 PM
Plenty of sentiment but his time is definitely up in terms of remaining with us as a player.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: chipperclark on January 18, 2023, 11:57:10 PM
 :D Think he would make a great coach and possibly management in the future. Has been a great servant to our club.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on March 30, 2023, 07:41:02 PM
Kitman Pat Frost just said on Twitter that Livermore has a promotion clause in his deal that would trigger another years extension if we go up  :o

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on March 30, 2023, 07:43:28 PM
Kitman Pat Frost just said on Twitter that Livermore has a promotion clause in his deal that would trigger another years extension if we go up  :o

If we go up I’ll stomach it gladly!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on March 30, 2023, 07:51:14 PM
If we go up I’ll stomach it gladly!

For the sake of our club me also but what in earth was Dowling doing during his time here and who the hell employed him.

Doesn't he believe in players ever retiring? He'd be nearly 35
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on March 30, 2023, 07:54:19 PM
Kitman Pat Frost just said on Twitter that Livermore has a promotion clause in his deal that would trigger another years extension if we go up  :o

Jake needs a zimmer frame this season, he'll need a wheelchair next season.

Seriously - if he had any self respect he would have walked in January, and tried to play some football elsewhere. Instead he wants to sit on the sidelines and pick up his wage until his contract bleeds out.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on March 30, 2023, 08:09:52 PM
Jake needs a zimmer frame this season, he'll need a wheelchair next season.

Seriously - if he had any self respect he would have walked in January, and tried to play some football elsewhere. Instead he wants to sit on the sidelines and pick up his wage until his contract bleeds out.


I do agree but as far as we know nobody came in for him which says it all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 30, 2023, 09:19:59 PM
Jake needs a zimmer frame this season, he'll need a wheelchair next season.

Seriously - if he had any self respect he would have walked in January,
and tried to play some football elsewhere. Instead he wants to sit on the sidelines and pick up his wage until his contract bleeds out.
Not having that, he is a regular at away games to support his colleagues, making his own way there. Since the Barcelona incident, he has been a proper club man and has always done his best for the club.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 30, 2023, 09:23:50 PM
:D Think he would make a great coach and possibly management in the future. Has been a great servant to our club.
Could'nt agree more with you Chipper.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on March 30, 2023, 10:48:05 PM
Not having that, he is a regular at away games to support his colleagues, making his own way there. Since the Barcelona incident, he has been a proper club man and has always done his best for the club.

He is a footballer, not a mascot - else he is most overpaid mascot in the history of football.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TheBaggieMan on March 31, 2023, 08:27:19 AM
Book Jake a taxi!  Now only 2 months left until he’s off the wage will.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: johnny Cash on March 31, 2023, 09:26:59 AM
He is a footballer, not a mascot - else he is most overpaid mascot in the history of football.

He's also an employee not a martyr. I don't rate him, never have but comments like 'any self respect he should have left' are nonsense.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 31, 2023, 09:40:40 AM
Praying it isn’t true; seems a very odd clause to insert into the contract. Ultimately he has been a drain on us financially ever since he joined, he wasn’t very good then and is beyond abysmal now so I have no interest in how many times he travels away with the squad paying his own petrol money. We have made sure he can more than afford it.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on March 31, 2023, 10:12:26 AM
I should add that Pat also said if he does extend his contract his wages won't double up. They will remain in the current 25-30k range.

Dowling i take it all back. You are a genius.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on March 31, 2023, 10:20:28 AM
I should add that Pat also said if he does extend his contract his wages won't double up. They will remain in the current 25-30k range.

Dowling i take it all back. You are a genius.

Bargain  ;D

I hope he enjoys his retirement when we can finally stop paying him. We’ve made sure it’ll be a cushty one
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on March 31, 2023, 10:24:16 AM
Bargain  ;D

I hope he enjoys his retirement when we can finally stop paying him. We’ve made sure it’ll be a cushty one

How many can we say that about under Dowling.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on March 31, 2023, 10:30:33 AM
To be fair I think what happens to Jake is the least of our problems.......
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on March 31, 2023, 03:00:08 PM
:D Think he would make a great coach and possibly management in the future. Has been a great servant to our club.
demise started when we signed him limited footballer who has made a bloody fortune with us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on March 31, 2023, 04:26:12 PM
demise started when we signed him limited footballer who has made a bloody fortune with us.
Yowl all regret sayin these things when ees mon o the match termora
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on March 31, 2023, 05:19:57 PM
Yowl all regret sayin these things when ees mon o the match termora

'Livermore at the back post'.............. I really ought to skip the meds when I'm likely to be having a pint on a Friday afternoon. Then again they've never stopped me on a Saturday afternoon  ;D .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 27, 2023, 11:24:26 AM
Dun well without Captain Fantastico ay we?

I fully expect CC to throw him on in injury time to say his farewell.
All the best Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on April 27, 2023, 12:48:57 PM
Well paid cheerleader of dressing room hopefully will be moved on in Summer .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on April 27, 2023, 01:11:01 PM
If season is done with by last game no issues with him having a farewell runout as long as doesn't extend his deal
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on April 27, 2023, 01:16:52 PM
Dun well without Captain Fantastico ay we?

I fully expect CC to throw him on in injury time to say his farewell.
All the best Jake.

No chance as one more appearance from him will cost the club money in instalments to Hull. And yeah we have done well without him. Since he was dropped we’ve pretty much averaged two points per game, which over the course of the season would see us pushing for top two.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on April 27, 2023, 01:19:53 PM
No chance as one more appearance from him will cost the club money in instalments to Hull.

Has this been confirmed anywhere or are people putting two and two together?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: robnewbold on April 27, 2023, 01:21:27 PM
Out to grass as fast as possible, unless we can persuade Ryan Reynolds to part with some cash, he loves ex Baggies players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on April 27, 2023, 01:22:28 PM
Football manager seems to think so and that’s usually a verified source for this kind of data. Would also be a massive coincidence as he’s on 199 games for us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on April 27, 2023, 01:28:43 PM
Football manager seems to think so and that’s usually a verified source for this kind of data. Would also be a massive coincidence as he’s on 199 games for us.

Maybe it would but that's not confirmation.

I don't think he'll play again anyway regardless unless we have an injury crisis (us, no way) and we need him for the play off final.  ;D
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on April 27, 2023, 01:32:19 PM
Has this been confirmed anywhere or are people putting two and two together?

Kitman Pat said he's got promotion clause but didn't mention anything about appearance based clauses
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on April 27, 2023, 01:36:05 PM
Kitman Pat said he's got promotion clause but didn't mention anything about appearance based clauses

Blimey. I remember him and Sawyers in the PL last time. Must be the worst two CM's (together) in PL history. It was cringeworthy.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on April 27, 2023, 01:37:08 PM
Blimey. I remember him and Sawyers in the PL last time. Must be the worst two CM's (together) in PL history. It was cringeworthy.

Abysmal. Bilic thought Krov was more important than a DCM too. What a season. That could be applied to any since Lai took over in all fairness
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Dan on April 27, 2023, 03:14:46 PM
Kitman Pat said he's got promotion clause but didn't mention anything about appearance based clauses

What is it with this club and ridiculous contracts. How on earth could have anyone thought that a 34 year old Livermore would be any use to us in the premier? On a huge wage too.

File it a long with Kyle Bartley getting an extra year on his deal for playing 7 games, Matt Phillips getting a 3 year deal having been injury prone and out of form for years, David Button getting a new 2 year deal for....I don't know why, Martin Kelly getting a 2 year contract having not played for over 2 years....
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on April 27, 2023, 03:34:02 PM
What is it with this club and ridiculous contracts. How on earth could have anyone thought that a 34 year old Livermore would be any use to us in the premier? On a huge wage too.

File it a long with Kyle Bartley getting an extra year on his deal for playing 7 games, Matt Phillips getting a 3 year deal having been injury prone and out of form for years, David Button getting a new 2 year deal for....I don't know why, Martin Kelly getting a 2 year contract having not played for over 2 years....

Dowling in his wisdom offered the +1 part of the 4+1 we offered JL at the lower EFL rate. A small mercy.

So even if we go up Livermore will remain on 25kish only.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 27, 2023, 03:36:02 PM
Football manager seems to think so and that’s usually a verified source for this kind of data. Would also be a massive coincidence as he’s on 199 games for us.
Has no-one told Corberon? He already has one cardboard cutout on the bench (Rogic) so having Jake there as well makes no sense.
Oh I get it. Jake is just there to frighten the opposition.
Bye the way , although Jake is past his best for sure , he could still get around the pitch as well as the vastly over-rated and over-paid Swift, who we have to endure for another two seasons. 
Football manager as a source of fact. It's a kids game ay it?
We've got Morrison,Gera, Brunt & Texiera, Robert Koren , and Johnnoooooooo, never see the like of those guys again , let alone their 60's and 70's predecessors. As I look back on those days, todays young supporters may think of Livermore being a decent past player for the club .
It could be a long time before the club is able to bring in players of that status, and many of our "supporters" may not stick around to wait
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on April 27, 2023, 04:01:54 PM
Has no-one told Corberon? He already has one cardboard cutout on the bench (Rogic) so having Jake there as well makes no sense.
Oh I get it. Jake is just there to frighten the opposition.
Bye the way , although Jake is past his best for sure , he could still get around the pitch as well as the vastly over-rated and over-paid Swift, who we have to endure for another two seasons. 
Football manager as a source of fact. It's a kids game ay it?
We've got Morrison,Gera, Brunt & Texiera, Robert Koren , and Johnnoooooooo, never see the like of those guys again , let alone their 60's and 70's predecessors. As I look back on those days, todays young supporters may think of Livermore being a decent past player for the club .
It could be a long time before the club is able to bring in players of that status, and many of our "supporters" may not stick around to wait

Football Manager is actually used by a plethora of forward-thinking clubs when it comes to recruitment due to how detailed its database is. FYI, they actually send out researchers all over the world to watch and observe teams and then give detailed stats on a player’s key attributes. It also contains a lot of detailed information about player contracts and club finances.

Regarding Livermore, surely by quoting those kind of players from the Mowbray era you’ve highlighted how limited Livermore is. Since we dropped him we’re close two points a game; when he was playing we were bottom of the league. Not all down to him, football is way more complex than that, but we’re a much better team without him. And that’s a fact.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 28, 2023, 10:53:05 AM
Football Manager is actually used by a plethora of forward-thinking clubs when it comes to recruitment due to how detailed its database is. FYI, they actually send out researchers all over the world to watch and observe teams and then give detailed stats on a player’s key attributes. It also contains a lot of detailed information about player contracts and club finances.

Regarding Livermore, surely by quoting those kind of players from the Mowbray era you’ve highlighted how limited Livermore is. Since we dropped him we’re close two points a game; when he was playing we were bottom of the league. Not all down to him, football is way more complex than that, but we’re a much better team without him. And that’s a fact.
Surely the upturn in form is more to do with Corberan arriving than Jake Livermore not playing?
The fact we were bottom of the league had nothing to do with Livermore, anymore than any other player, and everything to do with Bruce.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on April 28, 2023, 10:58:38 AM
Surely the upturn in form is more to do with Corberan arriving than Jake Livermore not playing?
The fact we were bottom of the league had nothing to do with Livermore, anymore than any other player, and everything to do with Bruce.

And replacing Button. In fairness to '95 he's quite correct re clubs using Football Manager. Lots of them do.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on April 28, 2023, 07:03:52 PM
Jake has just announced he’ll be leaving
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on April 28, 2023, 07:35:28 PM
Jake has just announced he’ll be leaving

Should have left a long time ago, but has hung around to collect his pay cheque.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Cardiaccarol on April 28, 2023, 07:51:17 PM
It’s not his fault that our management is sh**te. He has been a good servant to the club.

At least he cares ( see the interview from the last time we went up)
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 28, 2023, 07:55:38 PM
Such disparaging remarks about Jake every time his name is mentioned.
Read what he says on the O.S
His last paragraph "Back the team like you have backed me all these years, and let’s see if we can go out with a bang. On countless occasions I have experienced the tidal wave of power that a Hawthorns atmosphere can bring to the team, and I am confident your support on Saturday will be no different."

If some of you back the team like you have backed Jake then frankly I don't know why you bother going.
.
Good luck and best wishes to you and yours Jake.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: TAFKATMNo1Fan on April 28, 2023, 08:01:58 PM
Such disparaging remarks about Jake every time his name is mentioned.
Read what he says on the O.S
His last paragraph "Back the team like you have backed me all these years, and let’s see if we can go out with a bang. On countless occasions I have experienced the tidal wave of power that a Hawthorns atmosphere can bring to the team, and I am confident your support on Saturday will be no different."

If some of you back the team like you have backed Jake then frankly I don't know why you bother going.
.
Good luck and best wishes to you and yours Jake.

Spot on
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on April 28, 2023, 08:10:15 PM
I've never rated him but it's not his fault he was offered the deal he was.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: lewisant on April 28, 2023, 08:11:06 PM
Wonderful sentiments from a man whose commitment we could never fault
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: alex1 on April 28, 2023, 08:11:11 PM
I don't think anyone can question Jake's commitment. It's just we needed a more dynamic player in his position.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: hardtobeat on April 28, 2023, 08:17:04 PM
He could teach those playing ahead of him plenty in terms of attitude. Wonder who’s going to be the next boo boy target . Thanks Jake !
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on April 28, 2023, 08:34:36 PM
It’s not his fault that our management is sh**te. He has been a good servant to the club.

At least he cares ( see the interview from the last time we went up)
Spot on Carol, but some on here will never have that. Looks like Swift is being lined up as Livermore's replacement for the haters, boo boys. Shame.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: beechyboy90 on April 28, 2023, 09:34:31 PM
Nice letter from a committed player who was overpaid and over utilized despite being technically very limited. Very much the start of our poor recruitment drive.

Doesn't deserve half the abuse he gets it wasn't his fault we signed him renewed his contract and failed to sign better players to play instead of him. Thanks for your efforts JL

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on April 28, 2023, 10:52:08 PM
Such disparaging remarks about Jake every time his name is mentioned.
Read what he says on the O.S
His last paragraph "Back the team like you have backed me all these years, and let’s see if we can go out with a bang. On countless occasions I have experienced the tidal wave of power that a Hawthorns atmosphere can bring to the team, and I am confident your support on Saturday will be no different."

If some of you back the team like you have backed Jake then frankly I don't know why you bother going.
.
Good luck and best wishes to you and yours Jake.

Great post Bryan. Some of our so called fans……….
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 28, 2023, 11:17:45 PM
Such disparaging remarks about Jake every time his name is mentioned.
Read what he says on the O.S
His last paragraph "Back the team like you have backed me all these years, and let’s see if we can go out with a bang. On countless occasions I have experienced the tidal wave of power that a Hawthorns atmosphere can bring to the team, and I am confident your support on Saturday will be no different."

If some of you back the team like you have backed Jake then frankly I don't know why you bother going.
.
Good luck and best wishes to you and yours Jake.

Well said 68. Could not agree more and I wish Jake all the very best.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on April 29, 2023, 01:14:20 AM
A good pro doesn’t behave the way he did in Barcelona.

Bye bye Jake, you won’t be missed and I can’t imagine there’ll be many clubs offering you a deal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 29, 2023, 07:08:48 AM
A good pro doesn’t behave the way he did in Barcelona.

Bye bye Jake, you won’t be missed and I can’t imagine there’ll be many clubs offering you a deal.

So you would rather remember him for this rather than all the work he did for charities, and hospital visits to see seriously ill children?

Sometimes if you have nothing good to say it’s just better to say nothing at all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggies_24 on April 29, 2023, 07:09:00 AM
Footballing wise he was part of the stagnation that has seen the club go from a mid-table Premier League club to a mid-table championship one, he was kept around too long however that’s a failure on the management & recruitment team.

He always gave his best in an Albion shirt & was superb in the promotion season under Bilic. All the best Jake I don’t think he’d be a bad pickup for a side coming up from league 1 next season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: JMullen95 on April 29, 2023, 07:46:00 AM
So you would rather remember him for this rather than all the work he did for charities, and hospital visits to see seriously ill children?

Sometimes if you have nothing good to say it’s just better to say nothing at all.

I’m not going to remember him for that when most footballers do off the pitch stuff like raising money for charities. Livermore is probably the worst captain we’ve ever had. A complete coward on the pitch who wouldn’t show for the ball when things got tough. No surprise that as soon as he was dropped our form improved drastically.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tuamigos on April 29, 2023, 08:40:15 AM
Not the best player/captain we've ever had but like so many other players that 'work' for us he was high on effort and low on ability.
He's always spoken well of us, I wish him well wherever he ends up.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on April 29, 2023, 09:06:43 AM
I’m not going to remember him for that when most footballers do off the pitch stuff like raising money for charities. Livermore is probably the worst captain we’ve ever had. A complete coward on the pitch who wouldn’t show for the ball when things got tough. No surprise that as soon as he was dropped our form improved drastically.
A coward he is not. Not in any way.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: sing on our own on April 29, 2023, 09:57:32 AM
Like most of our decisions this was 2 years to late. We never seem to part with players at the right time. He was an ok player on a very good wage. I don’t buy into the ‘been a great servant’ he was here for a long time because nobody else wanted him for the money he was on. He would have soon gone if a prem team came in for him and doubled his money (and rightly so).
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 29, 2023, 09:58:42 AM
You know what, actually you’re right. Just because you like Livermore and I don’t that makes you a proper fan and me not. Better?
You are obviously entitled to your opinion of any player, and their worth to the club, but the way you described him would be challenged by the majority of our supporters. Don't ever forget that the majority of our supporters do not post on this or the other forum, and those of us who do (me included) can sometimes be outspoken, but what you wrote is simply not true.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: graka on April 29, 2023, 10:51:16 AM
A good servant, suited a Pulis team. It wasn’t his fault someone decided to pair him with sawyers, who I also feel was made a scapegoat, they just didn’t suit each other as a pairing
Lazy recruitment meant we kept him 2 years too long, again not his fault
Always tried but limited ,time to move on
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: NJS on April 29, 2023, 11:52:12 AM
I’m not going to remember him for that when most footballers do off the pitch stuff like raising money for charities. Livermore is probably the worst captain we’ve ever had. A complete coward on the pitch who wouldn’t show for the ball when things got tough. No surprise that as soon as he was dropped our form improved drastically.

Can't remember when Livermore ever shirked a tackle (it did result in a few fouls given in dodgy positions though) He only didn't show for a ball when he was too blown to get into position.  Duty of his managers to have spotted his condition and replace him when it occurred.

Remember him having some great games against the Dogheads.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on April 29, 2023, 12:07:22 PM
I’m not going to remember him for that when most footballers do off the pitch stuff like raising money for charities. Livermore is probably the worst captain we’ve ever had. A complete coward on the pitch who wouldn’t show for the ball when things got tough. No surprise that as soon as he was dropped our form improved drastically.

So you don’t want to remember him for his off the pitch charity work but you do want to remember him for an incident in Spain? Strange logic.

Definitely not a coward when it came to tackling, the opposite in fact. Sometimes he was very ‘agricultural’. Certainly not the worst captain either, he was often in the refs faces. Have not seen much of that recently to be honest. You are entitled to your opinion, but I don’t see too much support for it….
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on April 29, 2023, 12:21:56 PM
Cut the petty squabbling as your posts will get removed from the forum and you will follow them if you ignore the warning.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: tommcneill on April 29, 2023, 12:23:14 PM
Some of the comments  :o

Wow!

Good luck Jake and thanks for over 6 years of service.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggie79 on April 29, 2023, 01:01:51 PM
Thanks for your service Jake, seemed to genuinely care. I would suggest he is one of the best off the field captains we have had. His work with the foundation, the local community and all the tireless fundraising for charities should be applauded in my opinion.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Atomic on April 29, 2023, 01:14:50 PM
It's not Jake 's fault that he was given the contract he received. Agreed on that. He always gave 100% I agree with that too and by all accounts he did a lot of good work behind the scenes. All very admirable.

However, since he joined the club we have been in decline on the field and his performances, apart from a short spell, haven't been good enough for what we, as a club, need and that is the bottom line. How he got an England cap I'll never know, much like Chalobah.

Im glad to see him go. Players like him have been a millstone round the club's hypothetical neck.

I'm not the sort of person who pays any attention to thank you letters.

A few more need to see the exit door this summer. Bring it on.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: SmethDan on April 29, 2023, 01:20:19 PM
Some of the comments  :o

Wow!........

Enough to make you think (well me really) that Jake the Peg's been getting around with his extra leg so to speak   :o  ;D  ;) .
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: ex coseley kid on April 29, 2023, 01:35:34 PM
Well I think that letter shows integrity and dignity.

I wish him well in the future. And I wish the same for us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: robnewbold on April 29, 2023, 01:55:05 PM
Go get him Ryan!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on April 29, 2023, 02:23:35 PM
Sadly I cannot really bring myself to care about the sentiments provided by him in his open letter. Ultimately, he has cost us an absolute fortune in terms of the transfer fee and his exorbitant wages over the years for what has been very little output from him as he has been truly awful for us over the years and a strong part of the decline we have experienced since he joined us.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: OldburyWBA on April 29, 2023, 02:31:20 PM
Average player rewarded handsomely by us but I don't get the hatred towards the player himself for his contracts and length of time at the club, baffling.

If you want to have a go at anyone how about those awarding the contracts?

I doubt anyone having a pop at the player would turn the contracts down which provide security and stability to his family for the length of them.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KYA on April 29, 2023, 02:52:57 PM
He is/was part of the general decline of the club in his time here that's the fault of the managers and the administration at the club. All you can ask of any player is that they give 100% which I think he did a lot of people in today's society do as little as possible and keep their jobs.
Good luck Jake you're genuine if lacking in the skill department.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: robnewbold on April 29, 2023, 02:56:15 PM
Great servant over the years , but the last few seasons epitomises the exact predicament the Club is in'
Players past their sell by date, with extended contracts and high wages. Self inflicted wounds due to lazy administrators.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBASPE77 on April 29, 2023, 03:26:50 PM
Some very lovely words said by Jake and I wish him all the best for the future.

I won't miss him.and i'm glad he's finally going. He's been so poor for us overall. Captained us to two relegations and a pretty average season last year. We spent 10 million on such a limited footballer.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: robnewbold on April 29, 2023, 04:02:39 PM
Some very lovely words said by Jake and I wish him all the best for the future.

I won't miss him.and i'm glad he's finally going. He's been so poor for us overall. Captained us to two relegations and a pretty average season last year. We spent 10 million on such a limited footballer.
Unfortunately, this.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on April 29, 2023, 04:33:42 PM
Good luck to him but hasn’t ripped up trees being realistic and should have been moved on after relegation from prem.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: albion59 on April 29, 2023, 05:31:51 PM
Sadly I cannot really bring myself to care about the sentiments provided by him in his open letter. Ultimately, he has cost us an absolute fortune in terms of the transfer fee and his exorbitant wages over the years for what has been very little output from him as he has been truly awful for us over the years and a strong part of the decline we have experienced since he joined us.
Not his fault he was paid high wages,  would you have turned it down? Thought not. And he hasn't exactly had top drawer players around him. I thank him for his service on and off the field and wish him all the best in the future.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on April 29, 2023, 05:54:13 PM
Here's my take on Livermore now that he's gone:

Firstly, on a cold, cynical level - he embodies our onfield struggles as a team and represents our struggles ever since our new owners came into town. Although I believe he signed half a season before Lai took charge, ever since we signed Livermore, our fortunes took a turn for the worse and we've never been the same since. Is he fully to blame? No. But still, I believe we'd have genuinely been better off without him - as harsh as that sounds.

Secondly, on a sentimental level, I'd also say that he's only human. On the one hand, the involvement in the taxi drama was bad, and I've also heard a couple of similar stories about him and his professionalism (involving alcohol). Because of this, I can't exactly call him a model pro or compare him to someone like Brunt who was genuinely professional in this department.
On the other hand, I'll also always remember his promotion speech under Bilic which showed that he truly did care about this club, which sounds almost hypocritical considering what I've just mentioned. Nonetheless, it was nice to hear some honesty and genuine relief from a senior player.

So overall, I'm happy he's moving on. On his day he wasn't a bad player but went far beyond his welcome.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 29, 2023, 08:19:09 PM
Fantastic ovation from the crowd tonight. Cheerio skip
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: liverbaggie on April 29, 2023, 08:58:31 PM
Thanks Jake, always gave his best, came to us during a difficult time for him and his family, he was proud to be our captain, good luck for the future
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: elmo_in_swansea on April 29, 2023, 09:29:44 PM
Genuine guy, can't say that about every footballer!
Couldn't have been that bad as he got into the England squad! All the best Jake, not the greatest footballer I've ever seen but can't fault his attitude despite the personal problems he faced!
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: CL3MO on April 29, 2023, 09:42:11 PM
He's a symbol of our decline, general mismanagement and nowhere near the required level to play for us anymore.

However, his desire and effort hasn't been in question and I, like many others, wish him well for the future.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on April 29, 2023, 10:17:47 PM
So there was no truth in the extra payment due to Hull if he played his 200th game?

Tbh it wouldn't surprise me that only someone on here knew about that contract clause and now we need to pay Hull another couple of million.

Good luck JL, I hope the kitman rumour was true and you ate here next season.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on April 29, 2023, 10:44:06 PM
Good riddance is my reaction. Had he had any class about him he would have left a year ago rather thank choose to milk the club for every penny left.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on April 29, 2023, 10:47:38 PM
Thanks for all you have done here Jake, good luck in the future
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: KN22 on April 29, 2023, 11:18:12 PM
Good riddance is my reaction. Had he had any class about him he would have left a year ago rather thank choose to milk the club for every penny left.

Really? Not many that walk away from a lucrative contract. Not his fault the extension was given.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on April 30, 2023, 05:10:42 AM
Good riddance is my reaction. Had he had any class about him he would have left a year ago rather thank choose to milk the club for every penny left.

You didn't have a problem with Bruce doing the same after his abysmal failure last season, did you?

In fact you backed him, still, whilst we were bottom and wanted keep him until the wc break.

The same with Button, who you didn't have a problem with, when he was joke from the first game of the season.

Why such vitriol against JL?


Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: jimmyj on April 30, 2023, 10:46:03 AM
Good riddance is my reaction. Had he had any class about him he would have left a year ago rather thank choose to milk the club for every penny left.

Can you point to any players in history, barring retiring, who have done what you think Livermore should have done?
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Hull Baggie on April 30, 2023, 01:05:21 PM
Some very lovely words said by Jake and I wish him all the best for the future.

I won't miss him.and i'm glad he's finally going. He's been so poor for us overall. Captained us to two relegations and a pretty average season last year. We spent 10 million on such a limited footballer.

he was captain when we got relegated in 20/21 but that's his only relegation as captain. Jonny Evans was captain when we got relegated in 17/18.
You missed out that he was captain when we got promoted back to the Pl in 19/20.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on April 30, 2023, 03:05:27 PM
You didn't have a problem with Bruce doing the same after his abysmal failure last season, did you?

In fact you backed him, still, whilst we were bottom and wanted keep him until the wc break.


The same with Button, who you didn't have a problem with, when he was joke from the first game of the season.

Why such vitriol against JL?

I'm pretty sure the moderators have told you time and time again to stop your obsession about your perception of my views about Steve Bruce's time in charge and your weird obsession with the idea that I loved Button in any way; yet like a broken record here are you again. Seek help.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on April 30, 2023, 03:11:53 PM
Can you point to any players in history, barring retiring, who have done what you think Livermore should have done?

Players move on all the time to play football, often that means putting their football ahead of maximising their salary; Jake choose the other route. That is his prerogative but I do not respect it. If you want a specific example listen to Steven Caulker on underthecosh podcast last week.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Luke.jones12345 on April 30, 2023, 03:43:13 PM
Say what you like about jake,but he has achieved more in his career than most here at the club,FairPlay to him top bloke to ,good luck to him
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Baggies on April 30, 2023, 04:30:41 PM
Players move on all the time to play football, often that means putting their football ahead of maximising their salary; Jake choose the other route. That is his prerogative but I do not respect it. If you want a specific example listen to Steven Caulker on underthecosh podcast last week.

There are very few at Jake's age and injury status who waive £1m just to play a bit more football. I might get the criticism if he was in his prime and letting his career go to waste, but his best years are behind him and so he made the perfectly understandable view to stay here and fight for a place. He still seems to have managed 18 appearances this season, not bad for a 33 year old at this level.

If 99% of people on this forum were in his position, we wouldn't turn down £1m.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on April 30, 2023, 04:50:33 PM
Players move on all the time to play football, often that means putting their football ahead of maximising their salary; Jake choose the other route. That is his prerogative but I do not respect it. If you want a specific example listen to Steven Caulker on underthecosh podcast last week.

You make it so easy to shoot down anything you say, when a manager you backed was playing him, until CC took over.

So exactly when should he have gone to play "football" when he'd been playing?

Some simple facts which may have slipped your mind, in addition to the aforementioned:

1) A team had to come in for JL to move him on in January, which was the only time this could have gone and played football elsewhere.

2) JL cannot demand that another team take him, when no one wants him.

3) No team could afford his wages, so at best we'd pay a big portion of them, even if someone came in.

4) Look up Winston Borgarde and Jack Rodwell if you want to learn more about football, and how a player can sit on their contract.

Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on April 30, 2023, 05:25:54 PM
Not his fault he was paid high wages,  would you have turned it down? Thought not. And he hasn't exactly had top drawer players around him. I thank him for his service on and off the field and wish him all the best in the future.

Never said it was his fault, did I?  :o

Just said I couldn’t care less about his words as he has been an awful player for us whose failure has been handsomely rewarded by the club
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: FallOutBoy on April 30, 2023, 05:34:19 PM
We paid too much for him, which wasn't his fault. We paid him too much, which wasn't his fault - if somebody's stupid enough to pay it, you're going to take it, aren't you? We kept him too long, which wasn't his fault. Even if others had wanted him at the time (which I doubt), he was on too high a contract here for people to match. Again, not his fault.

The stolen taxi? That was (partly) his fault. The five red cards, nearly one per season? That was his fault. The loss of any kind of dressing room discipline and the right mental attitude? See the taxi and the cards, it all started going wrong after he signed. The inability to play simple passes is on him. The complete absence of any kind of dynamism is on him - he actually did better when he trimmed off some of the muscle and could move. It didn't last. He was one of those who returned from lockdown in poor shape, and that was the beginning of the end for him. That was his fault.

1 promotion but two relegations from a division he was signed to help keep us in; as an England international at the time, he should have been a big part of that.

It's not all his fault, but he failed. And the reaction to his departure made me embarrassed; I've never know a club so accepting of medicority as us.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Standaman on April 30, 2023, 05:39:46 PM
Jake Livermore's career at the Albion coincided with a period of decline from being an established Premier League club to the current mess. In the eyes of some fans he is the poster boy for that decline that is unfortunate and more than a little unfair.

All you can ever ask of a player is that give you what they have to give. Jake Livermore did that. During his time at the club there were plenty that didn't and I am much happier poring scorn on their heads. There might have been questionable decisions surrounding him joining the club and offering him an extension, but the player didn't make those decisions.

Personally I would have torn up the Barcelona 4's contracts the moment they landed and none of them would have played for the club again. Football does not work like that which is not the players fault. 

Jake Livermore was better than he was painted never phoned it in and given he played for us for 6 years should be remembered more fondly than he will be.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on April 30, 2023, 05:57:48 PM
Good post Standaman.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on April 30, 2023, 07:26:46 PM
You make it so easy to shoot down anything you say, when a manager you backed was playing him, until CC took over.

So exactly when should he have gone to play "football" when he'd been playing?

Some simple facts which may have slipped your mind, in addition to the aforementioned:

1) A team had to come in for JL to move him on in January, which was the only time this could have gone and played football elsewhere.

2) JL cannot demand that another team take him, when no one wants him.

3) No team could afford his wages, so at best we'd pay a big portion of them, even if someone came in.

4) Look up Winston Borgarde and Jack Rodwell if you want to learn more about football, and how a player can sit on their contract.

What a load of condescending claptrap. Allardyce got it right with Livermore. He should have been shipped out of the club a long time ago. His agent deserves a medal for several inflated contracts that he managed to get the club to sign Livermore onto. Getting him off our wage bill can't come soon enough. That is one small mercy from the end of this season; that this thread now up to 123 pages can be put to sleep and the circa £25k a week allotted to Jake can go elsewhere. We do not have luxury of subsidising retirement for players.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on April 30, 2023, 08:19:19 PM
What a load of condescending claptrap. Allardyce got it right with Livermore. He should have been shipped out of the club a long time ago. His agent deserves a medal for several inflated contracts that he managed to get the club to sign Livermore onto. Getting him off our wage bill can't come soon enough. That is one small mercy from the end of this season; that this thread now up to 123 pages can be put to sleep and the circa £25k a week allotted to Jake can go elsewhere. We do not have luxury of subsidising retirement for players.

I've never been a big admirer, JL, however, your argument which has now changed from he should have left because he wasn't playing  (which was wong as your hero Bruce was playing him) has now turned to he shouldn't have signed the contracts his great agent got him.

The error was in our ineffective hierarchy to offer him extensions and putting clauses in his contract allowing for extensions, not his for singing them.

Stick to watching videos of a nobody journeyman like Caulker as imo your creditability as an Albion fan went long before you backed Bruce and Button and then derided a basic error from Palmer, in one of his first few games, "as the worst gk error in football history", just because you had backed the wrong horse in Button, to Dara being terrible and "clinical" in scoring his own goal to lionising Bartley as "the best defender at our club".

You conveniently try and ignore what you have previously said and hit that complaint button, but those are the facts.

I mentioned Bruce and Button again as they both did and are doing exactly, what you wrongfully said JL did. Neither Bruce or Button have walked after they have realised that they  are useless.

What's the difference between them and JL?

BTW, how many home goals have we let in without Dara now and what was it before his injury?



Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on April 30, 2023, 10:23:00 PM
I've never been a big admirer, JL, however, your argument which has now changed from he should have left because he wasn't playing  (which was wong as your hero Bruce was playing him) has now turned to he shouldn't have signed the contracts his great agent got him.

The error was in our ineffective hierarchy to offer him extensions and putting clauses in his contract allowing for extensions, not his for singing them.

Stick to watching videos of a nobody journeyman like Caulker as imo your creditability as an Albion fan went long before you backed Bruce and Button and then derided a basic error from Palmer, in one of his first few games, "as the worst gk error in football history", just because you had backed the wrong horse in Button, to Dara being terrible and "clinical" in scoring his own goal to lionising Bartley as "the best defender at our club".

You conveniently try and ignore what you have previously said and hit that complaint button, but those are the facts.

I mentioned Bruce and Button again as they both did and are doing exactly, what you wrongfully said JL did. Neither Bruce or Button have walked after they have realised that they  are useless.

What's the difference between them and JL?

BTW, how many home goals have we let in without Dara now and what was it before his injury?

Bruce, Button and Dara O’Shea, anyone else you’d like to mention in the Jack Livermore thread. Trev the shed maybe?

I’ve never said that Livermore should not have signed the contracts the club offered him, quite the opposite, his agent deserves a medal.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on May 01, 2023, 01:02:59 AM
Bruce, Button and Dara O’Shea, anyone else you’d like to mention in the Jack Livermore thread. Trev the shed maybe?

I’ve never said that Livermore should not have signed the contracts the club offered him, quite the opposite, his agent deserves a medal.

You clearly implied that the moment he was dropped JL should have demanded a move so he could play elsewhere and not just keep on getting paid.

Yet, you make no similar comment towards such a terrible player like Button, who isn't even on the bench.

JL has certainly given more in our shirt than Button.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: baggie82 on May 01, 2023, 01:32:53 PM
You clearly implied that the moment he was dropped JL should have demanded a move so he could play elsewhere and not just keep on getting paid.

Yet, you make no similar comment towards such a terrible player like Button, who isn't even on the bench.

JL has certainly given more in our shirt than Button.

If you want to discuss Button feel free to reopen his thread; I'm not sure anybody is interested.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: paulosull on May 03, 2023, 12:09:16 PM
Always liked the Hull midfield when Jake and Huddleston were in it but little did I realise it was all down to Tom, again club signed the wrong player.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on May 03, 2023, 02:27:49 PM
Jake Livermore's career at the Albion coincided with a period of decline from being an established Premier League club to the current mess. In the eyes of some fans he is the poster boy for that decline that is unfortunate and more than a little unfair.

All you can ever ask of a player is that give you what they have to give. Jake Livermore did that. During his time at the club there were plenty that didn't and I am much happier poring scorn on their heads. There might have been questionable decisions surrounding him joining the club and offering him an extension, but the player didn't make those decisions.

Personally I would have torn up the Barcelona 4's contracts the moment they landed and none of them would have played for the club again. Football does not work like that which is not the players fault. 

Jake Livermore was better than he was painted never phoned it in and given he played for us for 6 years should be remembered more fondly than he will be.

I know for a fact that it simply isn't true and he was more unprofessional than some would believe. I actually like him as a person, but some are painting him out to be a true professional which simply isn't true.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: BalisPen on May 06, 2023, 03:46:37 PM
I know for a fact that it simply isn't true and he was more unprofessional than some would believe. I actually like him as a person, but some are painting him out to be a true professional which simply isn't true.

Tell us  how he was unprofessional, other than what we know regarding the cab 4 incident.

It's not libellous if it's true.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: mulliganstired on May 06, 2023, 05:33:38 PM
I've said it before, Pulis ruined him be getting him to bulk up.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 21, 2023, 08:20:23 PM
Livermore signs 1 year deal at Watford - official.

Great news. Instantly makes Watford far weaker
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 21, 2023, 08:23:14 PM
Great news. Instantly makes Watford far weaker

Can't see how a near-34 year old Livermore keeps up with Valball at all.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: WBArgo on July 21, 2023, 10:02:12 PM
Can't see how a near-34 year old Livermore keeps up with Valball at all.
Yeah, he's literally the worst fit for Ishmael's style. Bizarre, but also shows just how clueless and wreckless Val was when looking at signings.

I actually think Livermore could do one more season in the Championship, so long as it was for a very deep/defensive side where he didn't have to be very mobile. Val ball is literally the opposite of that.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: gazberg on July 21, 2023, 10:08:37 PM
Yeah, he's literally the worst fit for Ishmael's style. Bizarre, but also shows just how clueless and wreckless Val was when looking at signings.

I actually think Livermore could do one more season in the Championship, so long as it was for a very deep/defensive side where he didn't have to be very mobile. Val ball is literally the opposite of that.

It's the worst possible fit for both sides. Still it's their money
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: MarkW on July 22, 2023, 12:17:55 AM
Only way it works is if he's on the bench to come on as the fifth sub in the 80th minute.

He has played for Val before so might help with getting the tactics across. I severely doubt he's been bought as a first choice
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: skyclad99 on July 22, 2023, 07:51:51 AM
Even the Watford fans can spot how bad this signing is😂😂😂😂
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on July 22, 2023, 12:07:07 PM
Some of you just can't let it go can you ............................obsessed . I would have thought you would be happy to jeer him when he comes back.
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Fritzl Palace on July 24, 2023, 10:50:18 AM
Some of you just can't let it go can you ............................obsessed . I would have thought you would be happy to jeer him when he comes back.

Posters on a forum react to breaking news. What a shocker  :o
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: Albionic on July 26, 2023, 09:11:17 AM
could Val play him as C-Half ??
Title: Re: Jake Livermore
Post by: iwastherein68 on August 28, 2023, 10:53:01 AM
At the game on Saturday , supporting the lads. Once a Baggie always a Baggie